Speaker 1: Maybe I was Sunny Bono. He died in this Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he died skin he dies all right into
Speaker 1: a tree. Yeah? Oh fuck, yeah, he died silly. That's
Speaker 1: not good. Oh oh no. The reason I remember that
Speaker 1: is because Red Man turned it into a punch line
Speaker 1: very soon after it happened, because you know, he's a
Speaker 1: big we'd smoke. I hit more trees and Sunny Bono fu,
Speaker 1: that's really me. Yeah, that's suing me. But also it's
Speaker 1: a good bar. It's a good line, good for red men.
Speaker 1: Chips in your racists money stuff. I can't tell me.
Speaker 1: M m m. There is the ed is there is?
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another spectacular episode of My
Speaker 1: Mama Told Me the podcast. But we dive deep, deep
Speaker 1: into the world of black conspiracy theories, and we finally
Speaker 1: work to prove that Ty Dollar Sign is the devil.
Speaker 1: You can't trust the black man with eyes like a
Speaker 1: rare yugiokard. They're too late, they're too light. There's no
Speaker 1: reason for that giant black man to have them blue.
Speaker 1: Evil wise, he's the devil, and I know it. Ty
Speaker 1: dollar Sign, that money symbol can't fool me. You are evil. Sir,
Speaker 1: h I am your hosts like Stan Kerman as always.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to be here. My guest today. Oh, we
Speaker 1: have a great guest today. He's he's hilarious, he's talented,
Speaker 1: he's exceptional. We were just talking about how good he
Speaker 1: is the fucking pad like a sound pad, and how
Speaker 1: terrible I am. But that doesn't matter. You know him
Speaker 1: from the New Negroes on Comedy Central or Wonderful Show.
Speaker 1: You know him from his brand new album Anime Trauma
Speaker 1: and Divorce. He's an exceptional artist. You're gonna love him.
Speaker 1: Please give it up for my guest, Mr Open Mike Ego.
Speaker 1: That was probably the best introduction I've had all all pandemic.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah great. You mean when the period when no
Speaker 1: one's introducing you to anything. I love that. Usually usually
Speaker 1: the attempts are just they're just sad, you know, they're
Speaker 1: just like, I don't even know if this is his
Speaker 1: real name. I guess his name is Open. I'm excited
Speaker 1: you're here, man, Let's let's get into it. Let's just
Speaker 1: real quick. I saw your TV the other day on
Speaker 1: the Boys and I love an audible Yale. Oh it's great.
Speaker 1: They made me get buff for that role. And then
Speaker 1: I just sat there and you and you really acting too.
Speaker 1: It's great, man. I had to be a creepy dude
Speaker 1: with muscles. It was nice. It's a fun time. But
Speaker 1: we don't have time for that. We gotta get into
Speaker 1: this goddamn conspiracy because you came to me with one
Speaker 1: that I guess sort of connects even to the question
Speaker 1: of a person acting on television. The conspiracy theory you
Speaker 1: brought was my mama told me Hollywood has a gay agenda. Yeah,
Speaker 1: talk to me about it. Tell me my mama didn't
Speaker 1: tell me. But every barber I've ever had, I mean
Speaker 1: Chicago to l a different shops, it don't matter. They
Speaker 1: always believe that because they always have something on TV,
Speaker 1: either the news or BT and and they are commenting
Speaker 1: on what's happening. And once anything even like I won't
Speaker 1: say slightly homosexual, was just like anything that's not a
Speaker 1: traditional manly man Madrid. Yeah, hetero normative ship that's a
Speaker 1: better word. Oh my god, thank you. Once anything slightly
Speaker 1: less than hetero normative happens, then um, you know than
Speaker 1: outcomes to you know, they only want to show us
Speaker 1: in certain ways because you know, they tried to emasculate
Speaker 1: the black man, and but two thousand years right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's always and for our our listeners at home, who
Speaker 1: have not yet been privy to the wisdom of a barber,
Speaker 1: it is always rooted in this conspiracy that by making
Speaker 1: black men gay or we are somehow undermining the black community,
Speaker 1: that it is like the destruction of the nuclear family,
Speaker 1: as it were, and and that gay images are intentionally
Speaker 1: reflected back to us in order to make us more
Speaker 1: gay over time. Is the other other part of the theory, guess,
Speaker 1: So we become more gay and then subsequently and I
Speaker 1: know this is always a part of it is and
Speaker 1: it's not always a part that maybe is articulated. It's
Speaker 1: that we become more gay and then we become weaker
Speaker 1: because of that gay. Of course, it's it's all. It's
Speaker 1: all very negative perspective. So it's very They very much
Speaker 1: believe that hetero is the way to be sure, and
Speaker 1: that anything else is a programming error and it needs
Speaker 1: to be fought against. That's fair. Yeah, it's never like
Speaker 1: a good thing. They're not like, you become more gay
Speaker 1: and then your apartment is going to be real clean
Speaker 1: and smell a little better. You know none of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't. They don't see anything but what they consider
Speaker 1: to be the dark side. You're gonna become more gay
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna get some of those sweet abs
Speaker 1: that all the gay men have. And that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: I hope you like it now. It's it's a fascinating
Speaker 1: I think conversation almost like a checkpoint that every black
Speaker 1: man goes through in their experience of like, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have an older black dude at some point sell you
Speaker 1: on this idea, and the question really becomes how bought
Speaker 1: in do you do you want to be to the
Speaker 1: premise that Hollywood is trying to make you gay? I
Speaker 1: guess my question for you is how bought in were
Speaker 1: you the first time you heard this? How much were
Speaker 1: you believing this to be true? I mean, I've always
Speaker 1: known a lot of gay people like and and I've
Speaker 1: never um never been like judgementel or never thought that
Speaker 1: it was somehow lesser than so this always sounded ridiculous
Speaker 1: to me. And the other thing is, I mean I
Speaker 1: feel like this conspiracy theory, like most of them, also
Speaker 1: kind of reflects my brain wants to say education level,
Speaker 1: but that's not it. It's it's more like how much information,
Speaker 1: like real information, somebody has at hand or somebody has consumed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it comes from a place of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't really know what's going on, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: stay here in this barbershop and make shut up. And
Speaker 1: then when people come in here saying some ship it
Speaker 1: sounds interesting, I'm just gonna stick with that. But I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna really read anything, and I'm not gonna go
Speaker 1: have other experiences other places. I'm just gonna perpetuate this
Speaker 1: ship because it sounds cool. It makes me feel smarter, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do. And to that point, some of it also
Speaker 1: feels like a lack of control. Do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? That? Like you don't have control in certain
Speaker 1: parts of your life because the government and poverty and
Speaker 1: all the reasons why we often feel like we don't
Speaker 1: have control. And so subsequently you go, well, where do
Speaker 1: I have control? And part of that is just making
Speaker 1: up your own truth. You go like, well, if I
Speaker 1: can make this true, and if I can convince other
Speaker 1: people that it's true, then I have a power that
Speaker 1: I otherwise wouldn't have, because you know, I'm broke and
Speaker 1: I don't know how to fix that, right, And and
Speaker 1: it's yeah, you're right, because it's it's reflective of of
Speaker 1: not understanding how systems work. You don't understand how systems work,
Speaker 1: then it just looks as if everything is being puppeteered
Speaker 1: by some force that's just right outside of your grasp.
Speaker 1: And if somebody comes along saying something that checks the
Speaker 1: box of explaining that somehow, but also aligns with any
Speaker 1: other beliefs you have, Like if you happen to believe, uh,
Speaker 1: somehow that that being gay is also bad, and also
Speaker 1: you were told that these forces who you can't see
Speaker 1: are pushing that on you, well, then that checks a
Speaker 1: couple of boxes. And you know like, okay, yeah, that
Speaker 1: makes sense. That's how the world works, you know, right,
Speaker 1: And I think there are also those weird to your point,
Speaker 1: there are those weird affirming moments that make your ideas
Speaker 1: feel at least somewhat valid, that then force you to
Speaker 1: go even further down that tunnel of your belief right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a haircut, um right after uh it had
Speaker 1: to be the week that Moonlight won that oscar. That
Speaker 1: was a bad bad shop man, bad bad day. Because
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there and they're saying that ship and I'm
Speaker 1: just like, Yo, that movie is amazing though, it's so good,
Speaker 1: Like it's really good. And the whole time that I
Speaker 1: saw the movie and I'm and I'm reveling and celebrating
Speaker 1: and its accomplishments, I'm thinking, how awesome it is that
Speaker 1: we have a black gay story with that sort of
Speaker 1: representation and it's getting that sort of recognition. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I'm in the barbershop and they just think this is
Speaker 1: the end of the world to them, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. And I know I have to believe they
Speaker 1: were going down the train of like you know, they
Speaker 1: wasn't even supposed to win. They didn't even call out
Speaker 1: their name, but somebody got in the earpiece and was like, no,
Speaker 1: give it to the gay people, so we could make
Speaker 1: the niggas gays like, oh, you know, it's wild. And
Speaker 1: then I remember, and maybe you similarly have this memory.
Speaker 1: I think my first sense of this quote unquote gay
Speaker 1: agenda came out of like the conversation about black men
Speaker 1: and dresses. That like, there was that whole theory that
Speaker 1: anytime they put a black man on TV in address
Speaker 1: it was sort of like a transition in his career, Uh,
Speaker 1: Martin Lawrence, the you know, the Eddie Murphy's whoever. It
Speaker 1: was that they stopped being connected with the black community
Speaker 1: and we're suddenly now like Hollywood elites who were being
Speaker 1: puppeted by the white man, right, and they were willing
Speaker 1: to like they were basically showing they were willing to
Speaker 1: do whatever it takes yes to be you know, to
Speaker 1: be rich, to be positioned that way. And and and that
Speaker 1: was a signal that they were willing to turn away from,
Speaker 1: you know, the traditional idea of of black manhood in
Speaker 1: order to do what the white man thinks it's funny,
Speaker 1: which those people also think is by self detegration, you know,
Speaker 1: making fun of yourself to that degree, right, And I
Speaker 1: guess I wonder the question I have for you is
Speaker 1: how much of that? Because I found myself, and this
Speaker 1: is a better way of framing it, I found myself
Speaker 1: even as a kid being like, I don't hate gay people.
Speaker 1: I like gay people. I don't or certainly don't have
Speaker 1: any you know, hard feelings in any direction about like
Speaker 1: them based on the fact that they like kissing somebody
Speaker 1: of the same sex. But I also don't want to
Speaker 1: be a sellout. I don't want to be like a
Speaker 1: person who, like my peers, would view that way. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll never wear a dress, I'll never commit to any
Speaker 1: of these homo erotic images so that nobody could ever
Speaker 1: question my commitment to the black man and black community
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. I think. Yeah, I think, and
Speaker 1: and if you're getting at what I think you're getting that,
Speaker 1: I do think there's that kernel of something that resonates
Speaker 1: in that um about when you are a black man
Speaker 1: entering the entertainment industry, you do feel, especially if you're
Speaker 1: not doing you know, shows with black writers, black producers,
Speaker 1: you know, black showrunners, you're on guard to make sure
Speaker 1: that you're not being put in a position that's gonna
Speaker 1: cost you your credibility. So like, even though you're not
Speaker 1: bringing a homophobia to it or transphobia to it, you
Speaker 1: do feel a certain sense of needing to protect your image,
Speaker 1: and so you're kind of on the lookout for stuff
Speaker 1: like that, right, Yeah, you're constantly sort of on edge
Speaker 1: for this thing that, even though it's not coming from
Speaker 1: your own hatred, is coming from someone else's hatred and
Speaker 1: yourself like trying to not articulate it, but it's coming
Speaker 1: out either way. It's yeah, it's a fun up dance
Speaker 1: that we find and that you know, And that's the thing.
Speaker 1: You know, people argue against the idea of privilege, like
Speaker 1: that's one of the perfect examples. It's not like privileged
Speaker 1: means you automatically have it easier. Privileged means there's just
Speaker 1: certain inner conversations you don't have to have. You get
Speaker 1: to devote that brain power in brain space into something
Speaker 1: else you don't have to worry about, like wearing the
Speaker 1: whole weight of a culture shoulders every time you get
Speaker 1: an opportunity like that sort of thing. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: and that's you know, in some sense it is what
Speaker 1: makes those artists who are able to escape that so groundbreaking.
Speaker 1: But right like like young Thug wearing a fucking, you know,
Speaker 1: beautiful gown on his album cover is a groundbreaking decision
Speaker 1: no matter how you want to spin it. But then
Speaker 1: the danger of that goes back to that same question
Speaker 1: of like how much responsibility does he still have to
Speaker 1: the community that then judges him or wants him to
Speaker 1: do something different than the choices that he made. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what goes on in mainstream rap
Speaker 1: now is really interesting on that level because you know,
Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago, I guess you just have to
Speaker 1: say fifteen now, it was just unheard of for somebody
Speaker 1: to be positioned or depicted in any way other than
Speaker 1: just like the hardest to hard dude. I mean, in
Speaker 1: the nineties you had rappers who were positioned to be
Speaker 1: a little lighter like a mc hammer or fresh prints
Speaker 1: like where they weren't super street. But then you know,
Speaker 1: after like two thousands, it got so homogenized that everybody
Speaker 1: was really leaning into that. And so if you look
Speaker 1: at that versus now and how much room mainstream rappers
Speaker 1: have to express themselves visually all these different ways, it's
Speaker 1: really interesting. But it does feedback into that conversation. We're
Speaker 1: like the dudes in the barbershop were like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: can I still like this? You know what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's I think they're asking themselves, can I still
Speaker 1: like this? And the even scarier part is out loud,
Speaker 1: they're definitively going nobody should like this. This is it's
Speaker 1: and you know that's the old headship where they go like, Nope,
Speaker 1: I don't funk with it. That's some new ship. That's
Speaker 1: these young kids they are they're the product of the
Speaker 1: gay agenda that sort of was already at play during
Speaker 1: the the younger hip hop era or the older rather
Speaker 1: hip hop era, and now you're just letting the gay
Speaker 1: agenda live live out. It's you know, it's worse our
Speaker 1: worst fears is living out in front of us through
Speaker 1: an oozy, through a young thug, through a Frank Ocean
Speaker 1: whoever the funk it is. That sort of is kind
Speaker 1: of just being themselves or at least the Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just really but really reflecting, because the interesting thing is
Speaker 1: to they're reflecting the street culture of now to like,
Speaker 1: the street culture of now isn't super baggy pans and
Speaker 1: big hoodies or even long white tease like it's like
Speaker 1: fitted clothes and really expensive belts. Right, It's a it's
Speaker 1: a different vibe in the streets now, and of course
Speaker 1: you know mainstream map is going to reflect that too.
Speaker 1: But then, you know, I do wonder for people who
Speaker 1: believe that stuff, how do they bridge that? You know?
Speaker 1: How do they bridge I guess, but I guess it
Speaker 1: kind of leads into what you're saying, where like they
Speaker 1: look at it, they look at the tight pants and
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, there you go, Agenda. Um. It's funny
Speaker 1: too that you mentioned old heads because it makes me
Speaker 1: think about Lord Jamar from Brand Nuby and who is
Speaker 1: like the mascot. He's like the quintessential old head and
Speaker 1: he's one of the main ones that are always using
Speaker 1: their social media, using their their YouTube, you know, doing
Speaker 1: dj vlad interviews, tearing down things that seemed to from
Speaker 1: their perspective, come from that place. But lordam was on
Speaker 1: odds M. If I'm not mistaken, Laura mars Entire, Penis
Speaker 1: was out when he was walking around to jail, and
Speaker 1: it's like, if you wasn't part of the gag in,
Speaker 1: how are you so sure that everybody else is now?
Speaker 1: You don't think having your dick meat out on HBO
Speaker 1: attempted If the presumption is that literally seeing dicks, seeing
Speaker 1: anything that is homo erotic is going to tempt me
Speaker 1: into homosexuality, you having your dick meat out had to
Speaker 1: do something for me. It had to give me in
Speaker 1: some direction and right. And on the same episode there's
Speaker 1: you know, all sorts of stuff stepping, you know, with
Speaker 1: with with men on men um touching, so you know
Speaker 1: it's It's just it's always struck me as hilarious. He's
Speaker 1: out there finger wagon against people doing the slightest bit
Speaker 1: of you know, gender expression. He was on he was
Speaker 1: on the gay Show on television as time, right, And
Speaker 1: I will say there's a there's another layer of irony
Speaker 1: in going on a lad TV to to complain about
Speaker 1: the gay agenda when you're talking to a white dude
Speaker 1: who is essentially like appropriating black culture and hip hop
Speaker 1: culture for his own benefit, like you're complaining to in theory,
Speaker 1: the oppressor while about his oppression about what you're seeing
Speaker 1: as like something oppressive in your community, right, and using
Speaker 1: his platform to do it when he don't give a
Speaker 1: damn about what happens to none of us. Right, He's
Speaker 1: not invested in the beef that Nick Cannon started. He's
Speaker 1: just gonna get Nick Cannon to say whatever the funk
Speaker 1: he can. M I. I guess one of the parts
Speaker 1: that always fascinated me with this is I do a
Speaker 1: hundred percent believe that there's I don't believe in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form that there isn't fact they quote unquote
Speaker 1: gay agenda right, that we are by showing us gay
Speaker 1: imagery or or homo erotic imagery we are somehow being
Speaker 1: tempted towards becoming gay people. That's not how that works.
Speaker 1: But I do wonder how much you believe about Hollywood
Speaker 1: undermining black celebrities, Like how much of it do you
Speaker 1: buy in in that way, even if it isn't rooted
Speaker 1: in sort of like gayness, if you will, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I tend to push back against that kind of argument
Speaker 1: because I look at Hollywood for the most part, like
Speaker 1: a giant conglomeration of different corporations, and at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, they want to do what makes money. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, like if you're if you're Warner Brothers, Universal Parent, whatever,
Speaker 1: whatever company, it is the end of the day, Like
Speaker 1: if you're a higher high level executive, you're trying to
Speaker 1: keep your job, You're trying to get your bonus, You're
Speaker 1: trying to show that quarter earning, whatever it is that
Speaker 1: has to happen. Like, are you really gonna take the
Speaker 1: time out of your day to knock down an entertainer
Speaker 1: or somebody who could be making your money just because
Speaker 1: they're black, Like I don't, I don't, Like I think
Speaker 1: in the past that definitely could have been the case
Speaker 1: in some sense just out of like personal feelings that
Speaker 1: people have about other other races and other cultures. But
Speaker 1: it's like now, I just I can't see I can't
Speaker 1: see them taking the time out. I can't see them
Speaker 1: putting the energy into doing that kind of thing when
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, they're always trying to
Speaker 1: do whatever it takes to to make one more, one
Speaker 1: penny more than the next man. Yeah, I think to
Speaker 1: your point, it probably it's very likely that there are
Speaker 1: individuals in all industries who are like, I don't want
Speaker 1: niggas reading around me. That makes me angry. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do everything I can to make sure that these motherfuckers
Speaker 1: don't be reading. But in the grand theme of things,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that the industry as a whole, like
Speaker 1: had a meeting and a read on that. It just
Speaker 1: means that one dude has a passion for making sure
Speaker 1: black people don't read, and he's gonna do his best
Speaker 1: to work that out however he can, even if that
Speaker 1: means putting a dude in a dress and then making
Speaker 1: him not read. Effective, put that dress on, close that book, motherfucker.
Speaker 1: We've got work to do, all right. We're gonna take
Speaker 1: a break. We'll be back with more hoping Mike Eagle
Speaker 1: and more. My mama told me, are you do you can? You? You?
Speaker 1: You could? You want? You want him to do you
Speaker 1: so much? You could do any Yeah, we're back here
Speaker 1: were more open my giggle and more. My mama told
Speaker 1: me who who does? Who did the intro? Oh? Is
Speaker 1: this amazing? Dude. He's a comedian. He's an artist, much
Speaker 1: like you. He has more talents than I care for.
Speaker 1: I very angry at you, sort of like multi hyphen
Speaker 1: it people. But his name is Nick Chambers. He's very funny,
Speaker 1: very talented. I gotta, I gotta, yeah, I gotta, I
Speaker 1: gotta find out more. Man that that intro is brilliant.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks man, No, he's fucking he's the best. I
Speaker 1: gave him like very little information. I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: I need an intro song and here are five words
Speaker 1: to include that he went crazy. So yeah, he's very dope.
Speaker 1: Um and if you guys are listening, follow Nick Chambers.
Speaker 1: Show him all the love because he's very talented. Anyway,
Speaker 1: funck Nick Chambers. We gotta get into this research, Nick Chambers,
Speaker 1: get stuck, my dick. I got research to talk about
Speaker 1: open my giggles. You're right, you're right, My bad, my bad,
Speaker 1: all right. I really found myself sort of deep diving
Speaker 1: into the history of gayness in television and just sort
Speaker 1: of it's presentation. And one of the things that got
Speaker 1: really interesting for me was the fact that and I
Speaker 1: you know, you don't think about this stuff until you
Speaker 1: actually have to research it, but the first appearance of
Speaker 1: a homosexual person sort of openly homosexual, at least on television,
Speaker 1: was in nineteen seventy three on the Mary Tyler Moore Show.
Speaker 1: Did you know that? Did you know anything about? Nah?
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to I guess I never really saw
Speaker 1: a lot of that show. I considered myself a TV
Speaker 1: head and I grew up watching tons of reruns and stuff.
Speaker 1: But I think, um, I don't think I called but
Speaker 1: a few episodes of Mary Tyler Morris. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: which which character that was. I watched it a lot.
Speaker 1: Nick and Knight was my ship for a while. And uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I watched the Mary Tyler morrishow And apparently there was
Speaker 1: a character in the show who was the brother of
Speaker 1: one of her friends, who then tried to her friend
Speaker 1: tried to set her up, set Mary up with this brother,
Speaker 1: and then it became it was later revealed that the
Speaker 1: brother was in fact gay and he was holding this
Speaker 1: big secret. And so that was just the arc of
Speaker 1: an episode. But over so over the course from nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy to nineteen eighty, there were only twelve shows that
Speaker 1: at any point introduced a gay character. So twelve in
Speaker 1: an entire decade, right, And then here's where it gets
Speaker 1: crazy because you compare that to two thousand ten to
Speaker 1: two thousand twenty decade the odds? Is this the odds? What?
Speaker 1: What do you call that? The I guess what people
Speaker 1: call it the odds. I try to avoid talking about
Speaker 1: it altogether, just because their names so stupid. But sure
Speaker 1: you're making the right choice. But it goes from twelve shows,
Speaker 1: uh in nineteen seventy two now in two thousand and ten,
Speaker 1: a hundred and nine shows that include lgbt Q characters.
Speaker 1: So there's clearly a progression happening here. There's an increase, Right,
Speaker 1: What do you do with that? What do you do
Speaker 1: with it? You celebrate? Right? Like? I mean, you know
Speaker 1: what what you're hoping? Because I don't know that you know?
Speaker 1: Of course I don't know what ratio or percentage that
Speaker 1: is the total number of shows is made. But you
Speaker 1: know you're wanting there to be in like a reflection
Speaker 1: of the percentages in real life. You know, you wanted
Speaker 1: to be approaching that kind of level. And even if
Speaker 1: it's more it's like, that's cool too, it's I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it's to me, that seems only like a good thing.
Speaker 1: And it seems like the only reason that it wasn't
Speaker 1: so much before was because everybody thought that that was
Speaker 1: somehow a negative for everybody was trying to um avoid
Speaker 1: dealing with that sort of issue when it's something is
Speaker 1: real in life, and exactly I think those people, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: those people should be represented. I think that's exactly right.
Speaker 1: And you know, in in terms of the actual percentage.
Speaker 1: I did some research on that. GLAD, which is the
Speaker 1: Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, does like this tracking
Speaker 1: every year of the number of gay or lesbian, trans
Speaker 1: queer people in broadcast television and uh this time this
Speaker 1: in two thousand nineteen, of the eight hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: nine regular characters expected to appear in broadcast scripted prime
Speaker 1: time programming, ninety were identified as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender
Speaker 1: or queer. And so that's basically ten point two percent,
Speaker 1: which is the highest percentage GLAD has found in the
Speaker 1: fifteen years that it's been reporting all these numbers. Which
Speaker 1: is it, Like you said, that's progress. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: guess then my next question would be what it is?
Speaker 1: What is the reported percentage of you know, people who
Speaker 1: identify as gay in society? Uh. And of course whatever
Speaker 1: that number is, you'd have to up buy some percentage anyway,
Speaker 1: because everybody's out. But well, I'm glad, I'm glad you're
Speaker 1: saying that, because internationally, as it's reported, it's somewhere between
Speaker 1: one point two to six point eight percent of the
Speaker 1: population identifies l g B t Q. And to your point,
Speaker 1: that doesn't account for the massive, massive amounts of people
Speaker 1: that are not saying anything at fear of judgment, ridicule
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, I mean, especially if you when you're
Speaker 1: expanding it globally. I mean, there's some cultures in which
Speaker 1: it's it can still be lethal to be seen is
Speaker 1: gay publicly. So there's no way anybody would ever um
Speaker 1: answer that question honestly in some cultures. So yeah, you'd
Speaker 1: have to, you'd have to increase that number, but some factor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it can't be one point to. There's no fucking way
Speaker 1: that one point too of the popular Asian is gay
Speaker 1: anywhere is gotta be more. And y'all got to make
Speaker 1: peace with that Nigeria, get over yourself, Russia, and let
Speaker 1: these people start kissing each other. Y Uh. One of
Speaker 1: the more fascinating things that I sort of found in
Speaker 1: some of the research. I don't know if you remember this,
Speaker 1: but that New Beauty and the Beast came out three
Speaker 1: years ago. There was a new Beauty and the Beast,
Speaker 1: the live action quote unquote Beauty and the Beast, and
Speaker 1: everybody lost their minds because one of the characters ended
Speaker 1: up being gay by the end of the movie, The Lafou.
Speaker 1: Do you remember who Lafu is? I don't. Was he
Speaker 1: like a candlestick or something, remember now? But he was
Speaker 1: the uh Gaston who's a big buff dude who hates
Speaker 1: the Beast and hates that that old girl wants Beauty
Speaker 1: wants to be with him. Uh. Lafu was his like sidekick,
Speaker 1: his his main homie who like would run around and
Speaker 1: sort of big up him at all times to be
Speaker 1: like you are so buff Gaston. I love your Adams Apple,
Speaker 1: oh that delicious Adams Apple. And everybody, he's clearly gay.
Speaker 1: Your feelings for Gaston are clearly being expressed at all
Speaker 1: times and in everything that he does. And everybody got
Speaker 1: upset that. Uh it turns out they actually made him
Speaker 1: gay and didn't just like leave him with these feelings
Speaker 1: smothered underneath. So who's upset? Who's Who's mad? Families? Who's mad? Christians? Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of Christians. There was a drive in theater
Speaker 1: in Alabama, Uh, the Hannager Theater that basically took to
Speaker 1: Facebook to say, you can feel free to come watch
Speaker 1: a wholesome, wholesome movies without worrying about sex, nudity, homosexuality,
Speaker 1: and foul language. And uh, they refused to play The
Speaker 1: New Beauty and the Beast, saying that that fell too
Speaker 1: close to their rules of of engagement. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean, implied beast reality. In the movie, there find
Speaker 1: with perfectly okay for the lady to be with the
Speaker 1: lion man. It's all good. Let that big ass cursed
Speaker 1: yak stick is weird dick inside of this this beautiful
Speaker 1: young girl. But don't you dare show them boys kissing
Speaker 1: each other, be furious kursi yak. Yeah, it's it's a
Speaker 1: weird dance that that, Like, I think people are constantly playing.
Speaker 1: And to your point, it's this weird dance of almost
Speaker 1: not allowing our imaginations to go Like it's a movie
Speaker 1: literally about people's turning into two household objects. Would you
Speaker 1: let your imagination go that far and then you you
Speaker 1: cut it off at sexuality? That's absurd. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's so weird because what are you afraid of? You're
Speaker 1: afraid of having to talk to your kids about it? Like,
Speaker 1: what is what is the what is the concern here?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny, it's like you said, yeah, like
Speaker 1: so many other elements of this thing are completely fantastical,
Speaker 1: you know, even the fact, you know, people just break
Speaker 1: out in the song. Yeah, it's a weird world, you know,
Speaker 1: and all of that. All of that's fine, but then
Speaker 1: this this thing that you know happens that real human
Speaker 1: beings have have feelings for people of the same gender
Speaker 1: not allowed. I've never once been walking down the street
Speaker 1: and a bitch just breaks out into rhyme, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like just a full song. I've seen
Speaker 1: some people freestyle, but not a full fucking three bar
Speaker 1: you know, three stands a song, right, and strangers are
Speaker 1: joining in, you know, went back and forth and reins
Speaker 1: and all of that. No, it doesn't happen. It's not real.
Speaker 1: So even if you are in fact homophobic, right, let's
Speaker 1: say you truly don't believe that gay people should be
Speaker 1: getting married or have happiness, whatever it is that helps
Speaker 1: you sleep at night, the fact that you do that
Speaker 1: in the middle of a fantasy, you should just be
Speaker 1: able to say, like, well, this is fantasy, so it's
Speaker 1: not real and therefore doesn't threaten me. But the fact
Speaker 1: that you can't even dispel it in that just means
Speaker 1: this is rooted in real hatred and not Yeah, and
Speaker 1: this actually brought me to what you were bringing up
Speaker 1: earlier about the issue of OZ. Right. OZ came up
Speaker 1: a lot in sort of this this fear of homophobia
Speaker 1: or rather fear of queerness um. And part of it
Speaker 1: that they sort of explained in the OZ scenario is
Speaker 1: that they don't actually consider images like the ones you
Speaker 1: see in shows like OZ or The Wire to be
Speaker 1: part of the gay agenda because those men are not
Speaker 1: consensually being a part of gayness or of queerness. Right
Speaker 1: that because they're being raped, or because they're being there
Speaker 1: in the closet, or because is there somehow treating gayness
Speaker 1: is something you should be ashamed of. It isn't working
Speaker 1: towards the gay agenda. I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: how much wied and people watched Man because Omar wasn't
Speaker 1: ashamed of nothing. Omar used to walk around with his
Speaker 1: boot and do crimes. They used to do crimes together
Speaker 1: and then go home and do what they do. They
Speaker 1: was cool, that's fair. Nothing Omar was whistling. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't just because he was murdering people because he got
Speaker 1: some dick, right, yeah, he was. He was fully satisfied man.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he I don't you know that's that's that's
Speaker 1: a weird kind of cognitive dissidence. They're talking about their man,
Speaker 1: because I feel like that's one of the real brilliant
Speaker 1: aspects of Omar's characters, specifically, is that he wasn't ashamed
Speaker 1: of anything. And he was he was the scariest dude
Speaker 1: on the block, but his lifestyle and how he lived
Speaker 1: it was complete his business and and and something he
Speaker 1: wasn't afraid to wear at all, even though you know,
Speaker 1: he's in a situation where he knows that he's surrounded
Speaker 1: by homophobic people, he was choosing to live his life.
Speaker 1: And and and to that point, you're hearing all of
Speaker 1: like the the language around the way that they talked
Speaker 1: about Omar right that like, you know, they're using derogatory
Speaker 1: language when referring to him, right, But their argument, I guess,
Speaker 1: at its essences like that that derogatory language protects us
Speaker 1: from the cell of of homosexuality, when in fact, to
Speaker 1: your larger point, that's not the big takeaway of the
Speaker 1: of the Wire. You're not supposed to watch it and
Speaker 1: go you know what, Stringer Bell was right, he was
Speaker 1: really nailing it. Oh man, Yeah, Marlowe speaks for us.
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, that's not the thing. And so I mean,
Speaker 1: why can't these people just say that's a really good
Speaker 1: show and it's and it's got gay stuff in it,
Speaker 1: and that's okay, you know what I'm saying, It's all
Speaker 1: it's all this thing. What they're trying to do is
Speaker 1: make excuses for shows that they think are good. They
Speaker 1: can they can keep watching the show that they think
Speaker 1: is good, and they can have you know, reasons that
Speaker 1: they hide away with to make it okay, to excuse
Speaker 1: it for him. But it's so strange you have to
Speaker 1: jump through all those hoops to engage with a television
Speaker 1: show where where something really, I mean in OZ is
Speaker 1: is weird Because in OZ it was a lot of
Speaker 1: non consensual Uh it was almost it was used as
Speaker 1: a weapon in a way to dominate people in a
Speaker 1: lot of senses, and I think they're worth some genuine
Speaker 1: relationships in that setting too, but it was also weaponized
Speaker 1: and was and it was also it was using a
Speaker 1: lot of different contexts than just you know, normal sexual behavior.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think, I think specifically the way
Speaker 1: they did that in a wire was was was beautiful
Speaker 1: because even even in the presentation of it as a
Speaker 1: real life thing that just happened to be a part
Speaker 1: of this guy's character, they also didn't go the step
Speaker 1: of making a huge deal about it like it was
Speaker 1: some triumphant thing that they were doing. They just presented
Speaker 1: it as normal. Just like there's heterosexual sex scenes in
Speaker 1: that show. There's homosexual sex scenes in that show, and
Speaker 1: they were both kind of like treated equally, and neither
Speaker 1: were trumpeted as some grand accomplishment. It was just showing
Speaker 1: you life in this scenario, and sexiest part of life.
Speaker 1: If anything, I would say that the heterosexual relationships were
Speaker 1: more toxic than even like the ones that Omar had, Like,
Speaker 1: if nothing else, his relationships were almost the healthiest part
Speaker 1: of him. And then you know his his choice is
Speaker 1: beyond that although fucking coolest ship probably weren't necessarily as admirable. True.
Speaker 1: One of the things that that really got me excited,
Speaker 1: probably in the wrong ways, but I I couldn't help
Speaker 1: but enjoy was I ended up down a YouTube tunnel
Speaker 1: of like all the like hotep conspiracy theories. Oh here
Speaker 1: we go. It's fun. It's a fun time, probably not
Speaker 1: in a way that it's supposed to be. But one
Speaker 1: of the things that basically a lot of people argue
Speaker 1: is that there's no way into Hollywood, there's no way
Speaker 1: into real success in Hollywood without committing to sell your soul,
Speaker 1: uh through some version of homosexuality. M hm hm. And
Speaker 1: I think that's if I'm understanding correctly, then that's also
Speaker 1: kind of points back to the dress thing, right, like
Speaker 1: that you make you choose the dress, and you have
Speaker 1: to choose a dress or else you won't have a career. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean and okay, and and this is I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell you this gets harry for me because when you
Speaker 1: asked me this question earlier, what my mind went was
Speaker 1: to how at the end of the day, all the
Speaker 1: corporations just want to make money, right, so, and that
Speaker 1: it kind of filters out some of the conspiracy bs
Speaker 1: for me. But I do think there is also a
Speaker 1: long documented history of like people in Hollywood doing nasty
Speaker 1: stuff behind the scenes, and that also the nastiness of
Speaker 1: that also gets into hiring and casting choices, and and
Speaker 1: that in many ways has interfered with the money making
Speaker 1: on that level. To that point, I think, I think
Speaker 1: what we're seeing is that humans are horny as fuck,
Speaker 1: right that like, despite it being heterosexual, homosexual, whatever is
Speaker 1: in between, it's just a du being Like I'm trying
Speaker 1: to see something and I'm gonna make this this. You know,
Speaker 1: I've got enough money to make this person with talent
Speaker 1: show me there's something for my benefit. So, yes, the
Speaker 1: nastiness as exists, but is that rooted in like a
Speaker 1: want to undermine a community. Probably not. It's just a
Speaker 1: do being a yucky person, it is it is and
Speaker 1: and and it's not to undermine a community, but it
Speaker 1: is in a way systemic, but it's systemic in in
Speaker 1: the same way as its systemic, and government in the
Speaker 1: same way as systemic, and like megachurches, like wherever there's
Speaker 1: cult of personality, there's people using their position to take
Speaker 1: advantage of other people. And you know, in the entertainment industry,
Speaker 1: there's just a long, nasty history of it. And I
Speaker 1: think that if you look at the occurrences of disgusting
Speaker 1: things there and ways that people's lives have been ruined,
Speaker 1: it's easy to also conflate that with something something along
Speaker 1: the lines of the hotel philosophies, where you know where
Speaker 1: you you got to choose to go gay or else.
Speaker 1: And in some in some situations where there are some
Speaker 1: casting directors or some managers or some agents that are
Speaker 1: gay or omni or whatever, they do use their position
Speaker 1: to make sure that they have that sort of access
Speaker 1: to their clients, and they put those clients in the
Speaker 1: best positions. But that's not like a contractual thing. I'm saying,
Speaker 1: when you're right, when you when you ink a six
Speaker 1: picture deal where there's a clause, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: it's not that thing. You didn't sign this in Booty Blood.
Speaker 1: This is just h This is just the thing that
Speaker 1: happened to come up. And so you decide whether or
Speaker 1: not you're gonna continue and be a part of it
Speaker 1: or not. And that's okay in either direction. I will say,
Speaker 1: my absolute favorite suggestion that I saw in one of
Speaker 1: these videos was there was one dude who claimed that
Speaker 1: the reason Chadwick Boseman died was because of his unwillingness
Speaker 1: to continue his commitment in the gay agenda, that like
Speaker 1: Hollywood had him murdered for not wanting to be gay again. Wow. Oh,
Speaker 1: that reminds me. This is how I really. At one point,
Speaker 1: I thought I made it because there was a very
Speaker 1: old hotel on YouTube who made this whole video about
Speaker 1: how Comedy Central was making this show called the New
Speaker 1: Negro and it was and it was it was to
Speaker 1: amass further emasculate black Oh. I thought, Oh, man, I
Speaker 1: thought we had a ride and that was the whole video.
Speaker 1: That was the whole video. He saw an advertisement for
Speaker 1: our show and could not wait to hop in front
Speaker 1: of his computer and talk about how they were doing
Speaker 1: it again man, And so was the suggestion that y'all
Speaker 1: were gay? What was that? What Paul his His wasn't gay,
Speaker 1: It was just about it. It would be more along
Speaker 1: the lines of the emasculation by like wearing a dress
Speaker 1: or like we were cool, you know, like that that
Speaker 1: direction for Comedy Central exactly, and that we are somehow
Speaker 1: we were somehow tools viacom trying to subjugate our own
Speaker 1: community on behalf of them. That's wild. Did you did
Speaker 1: you ever have a part of you that wanted to respond?
Speaker 1: Did you right under under the comments? Did you do anything? Man?
Speaker 1: But I I showed Barren, and I wanted to show
Speaker 1: everybody like I wanted to like really run with it
Speaker 1: on YouTube. But I also I think once I saw
Speaker 1: that though, it also kind of gave me pause to
Speaker 1: like it was a situation that caused me to look
Speaker 1: at what I was doing from a different perspective quickly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like oh people could really think that, yeah, I'm saying
Speaker 1: like and so that was that was interesting too, like
Speaker 1: to be inside of it and to know exactly what
Speaker 1: it is, um, but then to all so see something
Speaker 1: that makes me look at the title of our own
Speaker 1: show like oh, oh dang, Like I wonder if other
Speaker 1: people are, well, that's that you're bringing up something really
Speaker 1: fascinating that that I think is sometimes hard to articulate.
Speaker 1: But but maybe this will be a great entrance, is
Speaker 1: that I don't think there's a way to exist in
Speaker 1: Hollywood without being a coon at some point? Do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like for somebody, that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you are in fact a quote unquote coon. It
Speaker 1: doesn't even mean that. I think we have a an
Speaker 1: objective definition of what that actually is. But there's it
Speaker 1: almost is a certainty that somebody's gonna be like, man,
Speaker 1: he's a sellout. He don't believe in black people. Look,
Speaker 1: he could have done it this way or that way,
Speaker 1: and it's like, nah, I gotta show and I put
Speaker 1: black people on. I don't understand, Like, at what point
Speaker 1: did this become you know, uh, detrimental to to my
Speaker 1: own community? Well, you know, I think I think the
Speaker 1: stark realization for me and for Baron was um was
Speaker 1: the realization that the problem is you you don't get
Speaker 1: to have the conversation with everybody who has those thoughts.
Speaker 1: Like they see a title, they see an ad, they
Speaker 1: may watch the show, they may not ever watch the show,
Speaker 1: but their thoughts are going to form based on the
Speaker 1: information they're presented and whatever kind of person they are already,
Speaker 1: and you don't get to explain to them the power
Speaker 1: that we had that we're executive producers, that we got
Speaker 1: to have, you know, as many black people as we
Speaker 1: could find to work on the show, to be on
Speaker 1: the show, and everything that it meant to us to
Speaker 1: do it, and the ways we went about that. We
Speaker 1: don't get to actually open that part of it up
Speaker 1: for people. And so in some ways, like you're saying,
Speaker 1: you can't control what people take it wrong with because
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't get a chance to sit with
Speaker 1: them and tell them what really happened. There's nothing you
Speaker 1: can do that can into me that that lady Flow
Speaker 1: from Progressive ain't an asshole, I think you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like to me, that is an asshole the
Speaker 1: human being. She's a piece of ship. I'll never forgive
Speaker 1: her but what she's done. But the reality is Flow
Speaker 1: as a real person who might have real say in
Speaker 1: the way that these ads are being shaped, and like
Speaker 1: the messaging and being able to creep, you know, add
Speaker 1: humor to a thing that otherwise might have been just
Speaker 1: a straight ad read and that's an unfair judgment that's
Speaker 1: being placed on her much in the way that you
Speaker 1: guys are dealing with And so I apologize Flow, but
Speaker 1: fuck you. At the same time. All right, we're gonna
Speaker 1: take more, more break. We'll be back with more open
Speaker 1: Mike Eagle and more. My mama told me, and we
Speaker 1: are back. If you want to reach the kids on
Speaker 1: the street, and you gotta do a rep, do a
Speaker 1: hip hop beat. So I gave my swimming an urban kick.
Speaker 1: My rhymes are flying, my beat is sick. My crew
Speaker 1: is big, and it keeps getting bigger. That's because Jesus Christ. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're back here with more Mikey more. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: what was that? Who was who was that? I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's just a man I saw on YouTube spitting bars
Speaker 1: open say, oh my God, of course he said it.
Speaker 1: He's not a He's not a coward. Jesus Christ. I
Speaker 1: think it was genuinely meant to be like a tutorial
Speaker 1: or like a thing to get young people involved in
Speaker 1: the church. And boy did it go wrong. But I've
Speaker 1: had fun with it. I love dropping it wherever I can.
Speaker 1: I thought the show was going real well. Now hurt well,
Speaker 1: it's only gonna get worse because now we're gonna play
Speaker 1: a game. This is I'm gonna play a game with you.
Speaker 1: This is a very fun game that I like to
Speaker 1: call white lies ugly. You're disgusting. I'm gonna kill you.
Speaker 1: Give me two white lies. This is a fun game
Speaker 1: where I am going to present to you a conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory mostly supported in the white community. And what I
Speaker 1: would love for you to do is to really unpack
Speaker 1: it and figure out why you think white people are
Speaker 1: so invested in this conspiracy thing. What do they Yes,
Speaker 1: it's great. Tell me what these sneaky motherfucker's are up to? Do?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Alright, so the the conspiracy theory.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much you track Qua nine, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're okay. Beautiful is hious. There's some
Speaker 1: of the funniest people on the Internet, and they don't
Speaker 1: get enough credit for being hilarious. But one of the
Speaker 1: things that Q and on me bers have started to
Speaker 1: sort of believe and maintain and circulate is that JFK Jr.
Speaker 1: Or he still alive and uh for some reason, is
Speaker 1: now a Trump supporter who is going to be showing
Speaker 1: up at his rallies or events now that he no
Speaker 1: longer is president. My question for you, why do you
Speaker 1: think it's so important for these white people to believe
Speaker 1: that JFK Jr. Is still alive? Oh man? Because they
Speaker 1: they really want to believe that the tables have turned
Speaker 1: to where you know, a lot of these people probably
Speaker 1: used to be Democrats, um, And they really want to
Speaker 1: believe that the the left and the Democrats have become
Speaker 1: evil and they eat babies and they throw children out
Speaker 1: a window. Um. They really want to believe that. And
Speaker 1: and one of the things going to help them believe
Speaker 1: it is if somebody who they used to love, who
Speaker 1: was part of you know, uh, the last probably democratic
Speaker 1: gimee that they really respected, somebody on that side sees
Speaker 1: it all clearly and it's gonna tell on everybody. And
Speaker 1: they're waiting like that's gonna be their savior. That's what's
Speaker 1: gonna make everything makes sense for them. In their head.
Speaker 1: It already exists, so that's what has made it makes
Speaker 1: sense for them, But they need JFK Jr. Help it
Speaker 1: make sense for all of us. That's that's that's very astute.
Speaker 1: I had. Okay, that makes a lot of sense to me.
Speaker 1: So it means that JFK Jr. Is sort of like
Speaker 1: the last semblance of like a truth that they do
Speaker 1: believe about Democrats and about sort of like what Democrats
Speaker 1: used to represent. It's like how Republicans still bring up
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln as a way of like justifying all the
Speaker 1: evil that they've done since, because it's like, no, remember,
Speaker 1: our boy freed the slave. So so we're still good.
Speaker 1: We're still we still the good guys, no matter what.
Speaker 1: It's no, it's it's a little more complicated than that place. Boy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he freed the slaves. I don't even know if he
Speaker 1: wanted to. And that's a different and that was many
Speaker 1: hundreds of years ago, right, it wasn't recent. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I love that. So they're sitting here going if JFK Jr.
Speaker 1: Is still alive, then he'll come back and he'll show
Speaker 1: the Democrats what's what and what they should have been
Speaker 1: and what they could have been. I think we did it.
Speaker 1: I think we nailed the episode. What a great time. Uh.
Speaker 1: Could you tell the people where where they can find
Speaker 1: you on the internet? Cool ship you've got going on? Whatever? Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: just put out the album like you said anime A
Speaker 1: Trauma Divorce, which is out everywhere music is legal. I
Speaker 1: have a podcast network called Stony Gotland Audio and there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of shows that we have on there that
Speaker 1: are mostly from the hip hop perspective. What else and
Speaker 1: and that's really it. And I'm always on Twitter Mike
Speaker 1: underscore Ego, letting people know all of the ship did
Speaker 1: I get up to and my weird thoughts about what's
Speaker 1: happening in the world. Fuck yeah, And as always, you
Speaker 1: can follow me at Lankstein Kerman and follow you know,
Speaker 1: can subscribe on the podcast. And if you have drop
Speaker 1: ideas or if you have conspiracy theories or art or
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you like to send, please send
Speaker 1: it to my Mama pod at gmail dot com. We
Speaker 1: would love to see your ship. And uh yeah, this
Speaker 1: has been amazing. Open Mike Eagle, everybody, okay by my
Speaker 1: crop chips in your hands us racists, money stuff, I
Speaker 1: can't tell me