1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is 6 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: so great to have you here, back for another episode 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: as we of course break down the psychology of our twenties. 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: So today we're talking about something that I can pretty 9 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: much guarantee you've experienced at some point in your life, 10 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: maybe even today, in the past week, in the past hour. 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: Today we are talking about intrusive thoughts. And when you 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: hear that, you might immediately think we're going to be 13 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: talking about OCD again. That's definitely, definitely a big element 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: of it. But in reality, the majority of people experience 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts on a daily basis without having OCD, and 16 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: they can feel really really scary, really hard to let 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: go off, just so confronting, and I think when you 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: don't know why they're happening or what they mean, that 19 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: fear can become even more intense. One of the biggest 20 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: pieces of evidence of how common this actually is comes 21 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: from a massive international study led by this guy called 22 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: Adam Radomski and his colleagues, where they interviewed over seven 23 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: hundred students across thirteen countries using a very structured interview process, 24 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: and they found that amongst these students, ninety three point 25 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: six percent reported experiencing an intrusive thought in the last 26 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: three months alone, and that estimate may actually be kind 27 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: of on the lower side. Another study found ninety nine 28 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: point four percent of participants interviewed had experienced and intrusive 29 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: thought in the last in the last three months to 30 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: six months. They can feel so shocking, so shocking that 31 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: it can be hard to admit to them or talk 32 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: openly about them, but they're also an incredibly normal part 33 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: of the human experience that has linked to everything from 34 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: very mindus stress, to health anxiety, to postpartum depression PTSD, 35 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: eating disorders, and sometimes they just are entirely random for 36 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: like no other reason. The good news is we actually 37 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: have some really helpful mechanisms for managing intrusive thoughts, and 38 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: some very smart people have been on this for a 39 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: while and they've come up with some great ways to 40 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: kind of take the sting out of them. And I 41 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: think just firstly, understanding why the heck your brain just 42 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: throws these weird thoughts at you is honestly the first 43 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: step to feeling less afraid of them. So that is 44 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: exactly what we're going to do here, break down the 45 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: psychology of intrusive thoughts, break down their structure, where they occur, 46 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: and also how to move past them. So stay with us. 47 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: So I've spoken about this on the podcast before, but 48 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: I've had intrusive thoughts for years. Intrusive thoughts like what 49 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: if I accidentally ran over my dog and like I 50 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: didn't realize it When I was younger, especially, I would 51 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: like obsessively believe that I had committed some grave sin 52 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: without realizing it, so I'd have to pray in a 53 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: very specific way every night to be forgiven. Another one 54 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: that I think is really common that I get is 55 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: like weird graphic images from the news or from videos 56 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: will like suddenly appear in my mind and like linger on. 57 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: My brain has two favorite intrusive thoughts, of like we 58 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: can laugh at them together. The first is that if 59 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: anyone is looking looking at me on the tube or 60 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: in public, I begin to think that I've just screamed 61 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: really loud and forgotten about it, and now they're all 62 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: watching me to make sure I like, don't do it again, 63 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: which makes me want to scream, and then I feel 64 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: like any second I'm going to do it again. Crazy. Secondly, 65 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: the other intrusive thought that I've been having is that 66 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 1: anytime I order Uber Eats, someone has poisoned my food. 67 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: I literally threw out like thirty dollars worth of sushi 68 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: the other night because I was convinced that because the 69 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: lid had felt fallen off, it had been poisoned. Who 70 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: exactly is out to poison me? I have no idea. 71 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: That's not the point. They're super bizarre, super weird. And 72 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: the reason I give these examples, and I have many, 73 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: many more, is because it shows something really important about 74 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: the nature of these thoughts. By nature, they are unwanted. 75 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: They are taboo. Sometimes they are against our values. But 76 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: specifically they're against how we want to lid or how 77 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: we want to be perceived, or what we actually want 78 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: to think about. The defining features that can help you 79 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: determine is this an intrusive thought or I guess normal 80 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: thought is it's unwanted. You don't want to be thinking 81 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: about it. It's unvoluntary, you didn't choose to think about it. 82 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: It interrupts your thought process, it doesn't just pass naturally, 83 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: and it tends to be attached to some kind of emotion, 84 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: whether that is anxiety discussed dread, shame. Guilt is another 85 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: big one. This is very different to what we call 86 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: impulsive thoughts, but they kind of operate in a similar space. 87 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: People often confuse intrusive and impulsive thoughts, so I think 88 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: it's really important you know the difference. Impulsive thoughts are erratic, 89 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: and they go something like I want to knock that 90 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: cup off the table and then you actually you go 91 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: and do it, or like what if I just died 92 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: my head black tonight, or what if I just did 93 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: actually place that five hundred dollars close order. They're not 94 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: inherently harmful in the way that an acting on an 95 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: intrusive thought would be harmful, and they also don't cause 96 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: us significant distress, and they're very often associated with ADHD 97 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: or impulse control conditions. But because they enter our mind 98 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: sometimes just as fast and dramatically as an intrusive thought, 99 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: we can confuse them and believe that they are the 100 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: same thing. This is where I think it actually gets 101 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: scary because you might have a mix of both intrusive 102 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: and impulsive thoughts, and because you sometimes might act on 103 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: your impulsive thoughts, you start to think that eventually you 104 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: could act on your intrusive thoughts, and that thought in itself, 105 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: that idea that could happen, is in itself just terrifying. 106 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: So it's important to note they are very very different, 107 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: even if they feel like they have similar structures. The 108 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: key thing is intrusive thoughts are not intentions. They're not 109 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: desires the same way that an impulsive thought might be. 110 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: Intentions involve choice, and they involve endorsement, and intrusions are 111 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: often the opposite. They are experienced as very alien, very upsetting, 112 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: very inconsistent with the self a desire. You just have 113 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: to remember this has pulled. There's like a little part 114 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: of you that wants to pursue it or is excited 115 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: by it. Most intrusive thoughts have repulsion and they have fear. 116 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: People feel horrified because they don't want the thought and 117 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: because the content really hits at something precious that they 118 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: don't want to injure. That's why they're called egotistonic. That's 119 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: something you'll hear a lot when people talk about intrusive thoughts. 120 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: They are also not predictions. Let's make that super clear here. 121 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: Just because you think your house is going to burn 122 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: down doesn't mean it will. Just because you have intrusive 123 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: thoughts about death doesn't mean that that is what death 124 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: is going to look like or feel like. We buy 125 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: into these thoughts, not realizing that a thought is not 126 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: a prophecy. Your brain can generate a scenario without it 127 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: being likely, meaningful or true. In fact, your brain generates 128 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of scenarios a day, and yet it 129 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: cannot magic something into happening. Otherwise the whole world's reality 130 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 1: would be controlled by you. Do you get what I mean? 131 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: Like realizing how absurd it sounds, and how absurd the 132 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: world would be if all our intrusive thoughts or thoughts 133 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: in general could come true. Just by us thinking about them, 134 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: I think makes us realize that they don't and that 135 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: they won't. Another thing you may have noticed is that 136 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts often have some very common themes that are 137 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: just scary. Aggression, harm, sexual content, contamination, things about disease. 138 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: These things are by nature to our humanitude, the core 139 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: parts of us as humans, very scary, very shocking. That 140 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: is why it puts up put them, puts them at 141 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: odds with what we're typically thinking about, and that is 142 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 1: why they really stand out. Harm intrusions, I think are 143 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: especially common thoughts like that one I gave before. What 144 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: if I ran over my dog? What if I just 145 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: swerve the car and I kill a bunch of people? 146 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: What if I push somebody? What if I have secretly 147 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: really hurt somebody, stabbed them, done something absolutely like just horrendous. 148 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes as well, intrusive thoughts show up like as almost 149 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: like a persistent mental replay of something that we have 150 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: seen or felt. There's this it's it really blows a 151 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,599 Speaker 1: lot of lines because sometimes they can just be imaginary. 152 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes there can be a past experience and PTSD for example, 153 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: Intrusive experiences are often trauma related images and memories that 154 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: just like intrude involuntarily and they feel intensely emotional, sometimes 155 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: as if the experience is literally happening again and you 156 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: are going through it once more. These days, I actually 157 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: think we need to be more aware of intrusive memories 158 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: or intrusive recollections, especially of this like violent nature, because 159 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: of the violent stuff we see online, like people getting killed, 160 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: people getting shot, people getting bombed, armed violence, like the 161 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: visual of that can linger even if you weren't there, 162 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: even if you only experienced it through a screen, you 163 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: can still have an intrusive memory of it. You don't 164 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: have to have been there. Vicarious trauma through online content 165 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: is a legit thing that does actually and has been 166 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: known to lead to intrusive thoughts. So the final one 167 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: that we need to talk about is that taboo intrusions, 168 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: so things that are sexual, blasphemous, socially unacceptable, specifically where 169 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:32,359 Speaker 1: the main emotional experience is often just shame and disgust 170 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: or I guess, fear of what it means. In these situations, 171 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, a thought pops into your head that is 172 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: so abhorrent and so gross that you think to have 173 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: thought that you must secretly desire doing it. That's that's 174 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: why it appeared, That's why it caused you to question 175 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: your morals, whether you're a good person. How could a 176 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: good person be thinking? This can be? People trust you, 177 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: do they know what's secretly going on inside your head. 178 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: It's a really difficult experience, but again that is why 179 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts are so cruel. They come from your brain, 180 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: and your brain knows everything about you, including the things 181 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: that disgust you or terrify you. It knows exactly how 182 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: to shock you by taking everything you care about and 183 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: pulling it all the way to the other direction. Why 184 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: your brain then decides to play with those thoughts and 185 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: throw them at you. We're going to get to that 186 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: in a second. But again, the reason they all cause 187 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: such intense fear is because, by nature, they are in 188 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: direct contradiction to what you value. That's what I really 189 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: That's what was important for me to know when I 190 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: was first experiencing this, and that's what I think is 191 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: really important for us just to remember, even if you've 192 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: heard it before, you know, if you value safety, that 193 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: is why your mind produces harm scenarios. If you deeply 194 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: value morality, that is why your mind produces to boom 195 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: moral thoughts. If you deeply value your new baby, for example, 196 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: like that is why your mind produces horrifying baby harm 197 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: thoughts or nightmare thoughts about what's going to happen to 198 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: your child. If you deeply value your relationship, that is 199 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: why your mind produces those thoughts of what if I 200 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: don't actually love them? What if I cheated on them? 201 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: Those kinds of just rapid intrusions. A thought that didn't 202 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: carry so much emotional weight wouldn't stick the way intrusive 203 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: thoughts do, because your brain wouldn't be so alarmed, and 204 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: because it is so alarmed, and because it feels such 205 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: an intense way. That is why it is so hard 206 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: to move on from, because we think that it must 207 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: mean something if it could have arisen in the first place. 208 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: This is when we get to a crucial element of this. 209 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: The problem isn't the intrusion itself. If we were to 210 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: simply be able to say, yeah, that's not true, I 211 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: know that's not true, and move on, we'd likely be fine. 212 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: It's this reaction and this interpretation and our sense of 213 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: personal responsibility that we have towards this intrusive thought that 214 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: often then goes on to trigger distress and trigger I 215 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: guess the need for a neutralizing response. A related concept 216 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: that you need to know. You need to know here 217 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: if you're experiencing this is something called thought action fusion, 218 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: which is basically the feeling that having a thought is 219 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: the moral equivalent to doing it, or that thinking it 220 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: increases the likelihood of it happening. Like we were talking 221 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: about before, we think that there is some predictive value here. 222 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: This is very similar to the concept of magical thinking, 223 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: believing that our thoughts have the power to change reality, 224 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: which is hard because that can be both a good 225 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: thing to believe in and a horrifying thing to believe in. 226 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: That belief that our thoughts can change our reality is 227 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: that belief is like a cornerstone to manifestation and positive thinking, 228 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: and even like some elements of cognitive behavioral therapy, to 229 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: some extent, how you think about something changes how you 230 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: behave towards it, which changes the reality of it. I 231 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: also feel like this can be a real spiritual concept 232 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: for some of us, believing that we have the power 233 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: to change things through thought, but also that we can 234 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: sense things that are meant for us before they happen, 235 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: that we have a destiny that our thoughts are I 236 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: guess leading us someplace. That's a very spiritually profound thought 237 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: that a lot of people have. But when you have 238 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: an intrusive thought, or when you have OCD or anything 239 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: of the sort, that magical thinking becomes pretty unmagical, because 240 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: now you imbue every thought with this added meaning. What 241 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: if it is a sign? What if it is a 242 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: message from the universe? What if this is my intuition? 243 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: You know, what if this is some greater power speaking 244 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: to me on a deeper level, trying to tell me 245 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: something rationally, like, you know this isn't true, you know that. 246 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: But when you're also in this state of fear, in 247 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: this state of panic about a specific thought, the logic 248 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: required to recognize magical thinking, the logic required to interrupt 249 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: that thinking often disappears, and that itself is a part 250 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: of this whole process, not not having the rationality because 251 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: you are so afraid to realize that the thought is 252 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: really what's causing the fear. So you can kind of 253 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: see the loop we end up in here. You think 254 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: something and it's scary, and because it's scary, it feels important, 255 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: so your mind concentrates on it more, which makes it 256 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: feel more realistic and therefore scarier. It drives me nuts, honestly, 257 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, at the broadest level, intrusive thoughts, these kinds 258 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: of intrusive thoughts, they happen because your brain is a 259 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: meaning making, threat detecting prediction machine all day again, your 260 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: mind generates random associations automatically to try and figure out 261 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: what is going on around it, to try and make 262 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: sense out of your daily interactions and daily experiences. It 263 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: brings up fragments of a memory, mental images, impulses, and 264 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: absolute nonsense, just trying to find a good interpretation or 265 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: a way of ordering things. So it's going to have 266 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: thousands of good thoughts, bad thoughts, neutral thoughts, scary thoughts. 267 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: But of course certain categories get tagged as important. The threats, 268 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: the taboo things, the things to do with responsibility, identity. Again, 269 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: these tags, those tags don't mean that the thought is true. 270 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: It just means that the thought becomes salient. It just 271 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: means that your brain pays more attention to it. And 272 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: because our human threat systems are biased towards better safe 273 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: than sorry, the mind lingers and will continue to produce 274 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: catastrophic scenarios to do with this thing that you fear 275 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: the most, even when nothing is wrong, especially under stress, 276 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: especially when it feels like if it could overthink this, 277 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: if it could linger on this, it could anticipate how 278 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: to respond and how to I guess survive if this 279 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: wad to actually occur. So let's talk about why our 280 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: mind would think we need testing and thinks we need 281 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts, and when they are likely to increase after 282 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: this shortbreak, I feel like the moment my intrusive thoughts 283 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: start increasing, it is like the canary in the coal 284 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: mine telling me it is time to start taking better 285 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: care of my mental health and to start taking better 286 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: care of myself. Intrusive thoughts do become more common during 287 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: certain life events. Again, whether you have OCD, whether you 288 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: have anxiety, PTSD or not, there are times in your 289 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: life that you are probably going to see an increase 290 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: in prevalence. The postpartum period is an example that researchers 291 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: explicitly discuss when it comes to an increase in intrusive thoughts. 292 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: One of my friends, she actually recently did have a baby, 293 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: and her intrusive thoughts had a major uptick. They increased rapidly. 294 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: She constantly worried what was the one she was telling 295 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: me about that a cat had broken into her baby's 296 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: room sleeping on her baby's face, which is really weird 297 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: because she doesn't have a cat. Another one was that 298 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: she'd accidentally taken another person's baby at the park. That 299 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: was a big one. Any significant period of hormone fluctuations 300 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: like right before you get your period or during perimenopause. 301 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: Also if you have significant thyroid issues, research shows intrusive 302 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: thoughts may be more common for you. Actually, in twenty 303 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: thirteen in Australia, they did conduct a study into this 304 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: and they actually looked into the role of hormones and 305 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: the formation of intrusive memories. And what they found was 306 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: that elevated estrogen levels as well as elevated quarters or 307 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: levels really predicted negative intrusive memories and how many negative 308 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 1: intrusive memories people have or had of an event. And 309 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: it makes sense, it makes sense answer that that would 310 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: be the case, yes, during hormonal fluctuations and that but 311 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,959 Speaker 1: also during stress because it's all tied up together. All 312 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: these systems are interconnected, right, And the cognitive effort required 313 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: to dismiss these thoughts and to use our coping strategies 314 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: and to apply logic and to move forward is greatly 315 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: fatigued by everything else that is going on. Your brain 316 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: is magnificent. It also does not have unlimited cognitive and 317 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: mental resources if it is being taxed by work, by stress, 318 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: by relationships, by a recent move, by a recent loss 319 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: by a breakup, your defenses aren't as well supported, so 320 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: those intrusive thoughts get through the first line of defense. 321 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: Another interesting thing to note, intrusive thoughts are also likely 322 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,239 Speaker 1: to be more common in those who already have a 323 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: mind that is primed for threat focused repetition. What I 324 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: mean by that is people who worry a lot, people 325 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 1: who ruminate a lot, and people who feel a strong 326 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: need to resolve uncertainty. This is pretty obvious, but people, 327 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: for example, with a personality trait called the need for closure, 328 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: are more susceptible susceptible to intrusive thoughts than people who 329 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: don't have that need. And this personality trait, need for closure, 330 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: is what it sounds like. There are some people out there, 331 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: and we all know them, who can just like adapt 332 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: to new situations, who don't need closure from the past, 333 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: who don't need a plan, who are okay with not 334 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: having all the answers, and those people tend to have 335 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: less intrusive thoughts. I'm not one of those people, that's 336 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: for sure. My need for closure is very high. I 337 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: want to know, I want to know the answer. So 338 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: when an intrusive thought pops up that doesn't have an 339 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: immediate answer, of course, I'm going to obsess over it 340 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: because my brain thinks that that's a way of learning more. 341 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: You can actually take this test. You can measure yourself 342 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: on the Need for Closure scale online. I think it's 343 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: either on the Princeton or Stanford website if you're interested. 344 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: It takes like five minutes. I think from memory it 345 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: is free. It's really revealing. It's very validating to know 346 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: this is just my brain. When I did that test 347 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: and I got the score that I got, can't remember, 348 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: but it was pretty high. I remember being like, oh God, 349 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: this makes so much more sense, and it brought me 350 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: a lot of calm to know that these thoughts were 351 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: just a symptom of my operating manual. And again it 352 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: put this barrier between me and having to think that 353 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: every single one of them was real. This was just 354 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: how my brain worked. I often find it so funny. 355 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: Funny is the only way to feel about it. That 356 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: the scariest thing in the world to me is I 357 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: thought my own brain concocted that has like a zero 358 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: point zeroes or zero percent chance of coming true. Like again, 359 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: sometimes you just have to laugh at how absurd and 360 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: funny it is. That my brain is like getting scared 361 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: of itself. It's also funny, but equally unfunny, not funny, 362 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: Like this whole thing is that the worst thing you 363 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: can do for an intrusive thought is to actually not 364 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: think about them, which is the thing that you most 365 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: want to do. Like, the worst thing you can do 366 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: is suppress an intrusive thought. It sucks, but ignoring them, 367 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: or aggressively trying to suppress them or avoid them, which 368 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: often feels like the only natural thing to do in 369 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:40,239 Speaker 1: that situation, that will probably result in them growing, and 370 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: in them spawning two heads and terrorizing you even further, 371 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: Like this whole everything to do with intrusive thoughts honestly 372 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: feels like a big joke. This was something actually demonstrated 373 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: by an incredibly famous series of studies or series of 374 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: experiments from the nineteen eighties by Daniel Wagner and David 375 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: Schneider in a paper titled Paradoxical Effects of Thought Suppression. 376 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: Now you're actually you have likely heard about this study, 377 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: even if you don't know the name, even if you 378 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: don't realize it. It's one of the most famous ones 379 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: out there. They recruited a number of undergraduate participants at 380 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: Trinity University, and they instructed them to whatever they do, 381 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: not to think about certain items, or certain animals, or 382 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: certain thoughts. The one we all know about is, of course, 383 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: don't think about a white bear, don't think about a 384 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: pink elephant. What are you suddenly going to start thinking 385 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: about those exact things? And basically that's what they reported 386 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: on a lot of these participants experienced a noticeable rebound 387 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: effect where when they were told not to think about something, 388 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: they actually ended up obsessing over it far more than 389 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: the people who were allowed to think freely about whatever 390 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: they wanted. They clung onto it, They became obsessive about it. 391 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: Some of them really were like, oh my god, I 392 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: can't stop thinking about it. This happens because of something 393 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: called ironic process theory. Once you have been given the 394 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: instruction not to think about something, a part of you 395 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: now has to check that you're not thinking about it, 396 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: and now has to make sure you're still avoiding the thought. 397 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: But how can you know you're not thinking about it 398 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: if you're not checking in therefore thinking about it, which 399 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: ironically keeps the thought active in front of mind. Ironic 400 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: That's why it's called ironic thought process theory. It's very exhausting, right. 401 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: The only real way to win this kind of mental 402 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: tug of war game is to give your brain specific 403 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: permission to think about it for a while, or to 404 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: talk about it. Any method that gets it out of 405 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: your brain where it's constantly going to be reinforced is 406 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:04,239 Speaker 1: massively helpful, partially because that's when we can examine how 407 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: irrational it actually is. That's hard, right, because acknowledging an 408 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: intrusive thought, or acknowledging a taboo thought or one that 409 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: really scares you, or a thought that you don't want 410 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: to have, or that you want to harm your pet, 411 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: whatever that is. Acknowledging that to somebody kind of feels 412 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: like an endorsement. It kind of feels like we're saying 413 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: we want to do that. We worry people will misunderstand us. 414 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: It is the only way through. Is it going to 415 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: make it more likely to happen now that you've spoken 416 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: about it. Absolutely not. It's actually going to make it 417 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: a lot easier for you to manage this thought because 418 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: it's not as powerful. The other reason this is so 419 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: effective speaking about a thought, acknowledging it, talking about it 420 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: is because it stops avoidance, and every time you avoid 421 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: a thought, you essentially strengthen the belief that there must 422 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: be some truth to it, and you also strengthen the 423 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: belief that you can't handle it. When you deliberately allow 424 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: the thought instead and not allow the action, just allow 425 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: the thought instead of just like pushing it away really aggressively, 426 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: you're essentially doing a form of exposure therapy. It's the 427 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: same principle that's used in congnive behavioral therapy or to 428 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: get rid of phobia's Anxiety and distress in response to 429 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: a thought works because of avoidance learning. When a thought appears, 430 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: you panic. Because you panic, you try to neutralize the 431 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: thought by suppressing it. There's a temporary relief, so your 432 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: brain learns that avoiding the thought altogether will keep me safe. 433 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: But of course it also learns how to overcome that 434 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: suppression and therefore reinforces the fear loop that the thought 435 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: alone is in itself innatly scary. When you allow a 436 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: thought and again allow the thought, not the action, the 437 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: anxiety does still rise. But when you don't neutralize it 438 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: and nothing catastrophic happens, it will naturally fall, and your 439 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: nervous system essentially learns, yes, this thought is uncomfortable, but 440 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: it is not dangerous because it is just a thought. 441 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: It cannot reach out of my mind and hurt me. 442 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: That is called habituation, or in newer models, inhibitory learning, 443 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: you build a new memory that competes with the fear association, 444 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: the new memory being this isn't going to hurt me. Traditionally, 445 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: exposure therapy has been viewed through the lens of fear extinction. 446 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: You know, the goal is to reduce our fear response 447 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: over repeated exposure to zero, to never feel fear towards 448 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: a thought ever. Again, the inhibitory model says, maybe we 449 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: can never fully eradicate fear, and maybe that's okay, but 450 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: we can build and reinforce new competing memories that are 451 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: if not positive, at the very least just new and 452 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: less anxiety in juicing, and we're able to look at 453 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: the thought and just see it for what it is. 454 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: Similar to this, And I actually found this tip in 455 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: a book called The Happiness Trap, which I think I've 456 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: mentioned on the podcast before. I feel like we have 457 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: this sery like a couple of books that we mentioned 458 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: all the time that are so good. This is one 459 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: of them. And in this book there is this method 460 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: called diffusion that is really helped with my intrusive thoughts. 461 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: And it has a few elements, but the one I 462 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: liked the most that the author Ross Harris mentions is 463 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: to take the thought. To take any intrusive thought and 464 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: find a way to transform it in some way, whether 465 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: that's mentally, creatively physically, to a point where it's not 466 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: scary anymore. Basically, take the thought, take it out of 467 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: your brain, write it down, paint about it, tells somebody 468 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: about it. But like say, for example, write it down 469 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,959 Speaker 1: in like big block letters and then color the letters in, 470 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: or like imagine the thought or the situation you're scared of. 471 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: In the situation everybody has like a red clown nose on. 472 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: Or sing the thought to yourself and like a silly voice, 473 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: or be like, oh, like pretend you and the you 474 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: and this thought on a talk show and you're and 475 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: they're a comedian and you're like laughing at this thought. 476 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: You're like, God, that's funny. One I'm always reminded when 477 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: I when I talk to people about diffusion of that 478 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: it Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban, where they 479 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: have I don't know, like a bogart or something. I 480 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: don't know what it's called. But they have like that 481 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: big trunk and like the thing jumps out and it 482 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: turns into the thing they fear the most, and they 483 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: have to find a way to turn it into a 484 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: funny thing. So like the spider turns into a spider 485 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: on roller skates, or like the full moon turns into 486 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: a deflating balloon. It's interesting because that is this technique, 487 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: Like that's a real technique. That is diffusion because it 488 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: makes this thought feel less scary and real and serious 489 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: and important because you make a joke out of it 490 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: because you look at it through another angle, another step 491 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: of this process. And actually it's the first step. I 492 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: jumped the gun, I jumped ahead. But it's basically just 493 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: to actually label a thought as it is, which is 494 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: an intrusive one. It's just to say, like, this is 495 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: an intrusive thought, nothing more, nothing less. Because the meaning 496 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: we assign to these thoughts, including our interpretations around responsibility 497 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: or danger or that they could come true, that is 498 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: what causes anxiety or distress. But when you can just 499 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: clearly be like, oh, well, this is just an intrusive thought. 500 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: I know what this is. I know the anatomy of 501 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: this thought. I know it's not real. You get your distance. 502 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: It's like providing the diagnosis for the thing that didn't 503 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: used to have a label. I found that that in itself, 504 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: just being able to label that gives me space. Okay, 505 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: we are going to take one more short break before. 506 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: I have a few rapid fire tips for you that 507 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,479 Speaker 1: I personally do to keep my intrusive thoughts nice and friendly. 508 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: So if you want even more solicited or unsolicited advice 509 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: for me on this topic, stay with us. You guys 510 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: know how much I love a mantra and that they 511 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: can literally rewire our neurology and our entire thought process, 512 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: and that the words you speak to yourself are important 513 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: in changing your attitude. And I think this is obviously 514 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: a great place to use them. The goal here isn't 515 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: to argue with the thought, but to just introduce a 516 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: new truth. Like all these methods so far have been 517 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: asking us to do some mantras that I find really powerful. Yes, 518 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: one just being like this is just an intrusive thought. 519 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: I know how to deal with intrusive thoughts. That's a 520 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: great one. Some others are I can feel anxious and 521 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: still choose my actions. My anxiety does not predict my reaction. 522 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: They don't actually have to solve this. I can just 523 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: let the thought exist. Another mantra that I love is 524 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: just uncertainty isn't dangerous, The unknown isn't dangerous, and this 525 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: thought cannot harm me because it's just a thought. Having 526 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: something like a verbal anchor that you can hold on to, 527 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: like this isn't dangerous, or it's just the fear of 528 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: the unknown, nothing more like it provides you with cognitive distance, 529 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: so you don't develop this inherent belief that anytime you 530 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: think something it's representative of your values. No, it's just 531 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: another way of thinking. It's just a uniquely fearful way 532 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: of thinking that you don't have to read into. Similar 533 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: to a mantra, too, is to literally pull yourself out 534 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 1: of your mind and into your body and just say 535 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: stop out loud to the thought, and then grab the 536 00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: nearest object and describe it and like experience the object 537 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: and give it as much detail as possible. That is 538 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: basically a grounding technique for when you feel yourself getting 539 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: stuck on the thought. Pull yourself back into reality. Pull 540 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: yourself back into the present that tactile physical nature interrupts 541 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: the mental spiral. Name the thing's color, name, its texture, name, 542 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: its weight, its temperature, its shape, the small details you 543 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: would normally ignore. This moves the brain from this abstract 544 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: sense of internal threat and internal fear and trying to 545 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: process the environment into processing the environment in the present 546 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: form that it's actually in. It just provides you with 547 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: a distraction that is vivid enough and real enough that 548 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: it stops your brain from amplifying the intrusion. You can 549 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: literally do that with as many objects, as many times 550 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: as you need. Even if it just brings you a 551 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,720 Speaker 1: couple moments of peace, I think it's worth it. Another 552 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: thing I do is I just mentally ride the wave, 553 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: and like visually, I think of my thought. I think 554 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: of my intrusive thought as a wave that I'm riding, 555 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: and I'm in the sun, I'm in the ocean. It's vibrant, 556 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: I'm feeling the movement of the wave, and you know, 557 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: it's this surge, this surge of the wave, this surge 558 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: of anxiety, surge of dread, of shame, and that can 559 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: feel like proof that the thought is dangerous. But riding 560 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: the wave literally pretending that these thoughts are a wave 561 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: that's trying to knock me down, and I'm very competent 562 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: and I'm just coasting along and the day is still beautiful. 563 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: Lets me feel that surge and feel that peak, and 564 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,399 Speaker 1: then ride with it until it kind of, I guess, disappears. 565 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: Your job is not to flatten the water in this scenario. 566 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: That would be impossible. Your job is just to stay 567 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,280 Speaker 1: upright on the ball, and it's just to keep moving forward, 568 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: to keep allowing the flow, keep allowing the wave to pass, 569 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: so that you can go on to the next thought, 570 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: go on to the next wave, maybe even dare I say, 571 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: enjoy the wave. Any kind of visual activity like this again, 572 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: keep focusing in on this, but any kind of visual 573 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: activity imagining the thought as a balloon that gets bigger 574 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: and bigger and then pops Imagining like the thought is 575 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: like a string that you like slowly pull from your 576 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: forehead and are pretending to pull until like it like 577 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: pops out. Like all of that is so good. It 578 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: works slightly different from the diffusion practice because when you 579 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: have a physical thing that also is operating here, when 580 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: you're recruiting your body, not just your mind. When you're 581 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: adding this physical feature. It recruits your sensory motor areas 582 00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: of the brain that can kind of interrupt this intrusive part, 583 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,760 Speaker 1: and it basically just gives your nervous system I think 584 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: a completion signal, like the wave is finished, the balloon 585 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: has popped, the string is removed. It's like giving your 586 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: mind a visual, physical, almost motor based full stop to 587 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: a thought that is often so intangible. And finally, I 588 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: have to say this, if you feel like you have 589 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: had more intrusive thoughts recently, zoom out a little bit 590 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,760 Speaker 1: and think about what is going on for you in 591 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: your life. Because the thoughts usually become more intense under 592 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: periods of stress. It might be worth actually just thinking 593 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: about where in your life are you moving too fast? 594 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: And is anxiety really bubbling up right now? Use the 595 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts as an indicator of where you should put 596 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,720 Speaker 1: your attention, where you should try and make your life 597 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: a little bit less stressful or overwhelming. Often experiencing intrusive 598 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: thoughts causes us to want to avoid the very thing 599 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: we're having intrusive thoughts about, or the very thing that 600 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: we're obviously overwhelmed about, whether it's our family, whether it's 601 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: our friends, whether it's traveling, whether it's the future, literally anything, 602 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 1: and that can mean again that we are pursuing avoidance. 603 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: But intrusive thoughts are also knowledge, and they also are 604 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: information about about what's going on in your life, not 605 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: what could go on, not what you actually do intend 606 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: to do, but just like about stress and about stress levels. 607 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: So just keep engaging in those things that bring you 608 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: back to the present and are engaging you in what 609 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: is actually going on around you and what your life 610 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: circumstances are at actually kind of throwing at you so 611 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: that you can I don't know, so that you can 612 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 1: essentially just deal with the root cause first and deal 613 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: with the thing that's like flowing beneath all these little 614 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: like stress bubbles of thoughts that just like cling on 615 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: to the part of your brain that it's going to 616 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: fear everything the most. And also I will say, go 617 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: and see a psychologist or a counselor or a therapist. 618 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: I know, for me to be completely candid, I used 619 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: to think that seeing a professional would maybe trigger my 620 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts even more. I was always worried that they 621 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: were going to give me another intrusive thought that I 622 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: hadn't thought of that was going to scare me and 623 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: that was going to make things worse for me. Absolutely not, 624 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: like absolutely not. These people are incredible. There is a 625 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: reason that therapy gets its flowers and gets its applause 626 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: because it really does work. And it was this weird 627 00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: thing where I did avoid therapy for so long when 628 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: I was really struggling with intrusive thoughts because I was 629 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: just so terrified of having to talk about them more. 630 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: That is avoidance. The moment that I was forced to 631 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: talk about the more, all those things that I've been 632 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: saying to you for this episode did come true. Like 633 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: I was able to get the distance that I needed. 634 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: I was able to see that this wasn't reality. I 635 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: was able to just like laugh at it and be like, wow, 636 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: that is really absurd. So I hope this episode has 637 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: helped you. I know it was a long one. I 638 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: know we went into a lot of stuff, but if 639 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: you have made it this far, I'd love to know 640 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: leave a comment down below. If you're listening on Spotify, 641 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 1: what's the weirdest intrusive thought you've ever had? I'll go first. 642 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: I had one recently where I became convinced that in 643 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,439 Speaker 1: the middle of the night, I'd gotten up and I'd 644 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 1: ate eaten a whole packet of gum and I'd swallowed 645 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: it and I was convinced. I was like, I was 646 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: convinced that I was going to die from like a 647 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: blocked in testine. So there you go. How fun is that? 648 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: Drop your funniest intrusive thought. And we can not laugh 649 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: at them together, obviously, but just like, yeah, hopefully we 650 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: can make you acknowledge how how silly they can sometimes be. 651 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: I know you guys will have some good ones. Thank 652 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: you as always again for listening, and thank you to 653 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: our researcher Libby Colbert for her help with this episode. 654 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: Make sure that you are following us on Instagram. If 655 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: you are not watching the podcast on Netflix, what are 656 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: you doing. If you're in the US and Canada and 657 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: you are not watching the podcast on Netflix, well that's 658 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,399 Speaker 1: where you need to be. Go and check it out. 659 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: And until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle 660 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 1: to yourself. We will talk very very soon.