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Speaker 1: Happy Monday, Happy March. We made it to March. Not

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Speaker 1: not everybody can say that, so I you know, it's

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Speaker 1: one day at a time, right, So happy March. We

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Speaker 1: are here here at the podcast. I'm always in this

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Speaker 1: month looking around for my eyes. We're always looking for

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Speaker 1: the eyes. I'm half teasing. Well, I guess it was

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Speaker 1: an impactful weekend. Obviously, I already checked in with an

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Speaker 1: initial response on Iran and what's happening. I've got to

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Speaker 1: a bit more to say and try to put it

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Speaker 1: in context. Look at this is less this is going

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Speaker 1: to do. This is a monologue that is less about

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Speaker 1: my opinion on what we did, more about my analysis

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Speaker 1: on where I think this is headed, what is the

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Speaker 1: unintended consequences? Where are they hearing? And basically I want

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Speaker 1: to leave you with a lot of questions to think about, because,

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, we don't have definitive answers on what

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Speaker 1: the fallout from this is going to be. I mean,

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Speaker 1: one of the things I think I've learned in my

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Speaker 1: fifty three years on this earth, and certainly my thirty

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Speaker 1: plus years professionally, is that when it comes to things

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Speaker 1: like kinetic action, whether it's a piece of a war, airstrikes, whatever,

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Speaker 1: you want to talk about these things, the initial response

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Speaker 1: and where eventually this lands politically often change and change

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Speaker 1: in ways that you don't expect. So the point is

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Speaker 1: is that you know, we're going down a road that

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Speaker 1: may seem familiar to those of us, to those of

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Speaker 1: you that were around during Iraq and Afghanistan. But just

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Speaker 1: because it looks familiar doesn't mean we're going to be

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Speaker 1: traveling the exact same road politically. So I do want

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Speaker 1: to get into that, I'll be honest. There were a

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Speaker 1: couple other stories I was going to get deeper into

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Speaker 1: that we're not going to get into specifically. I think

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Speaker 1: you know, and I still think this is something I

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Speaker 1: want to tackle a little bit later. But there is

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Speaker 1: something about the fact that Anthropic and Netflix, we had

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Speaker 1: our first two major companies say no to the president,

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Speaker 1: say no to coersion efforts by the government. Clearly, Netflix

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Speaker 1: walked away deciding that the coersion that the that the

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Speaker 1: government was using, whether it was forcing them to fire

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Speaker 1: board members or whatever it was, it was a bridge

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Speaker 1: too far. Ditto with Anthropic, whatever deal it is it is.

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Speaker 1: And I think our friends over at open Ai are

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Speaker 1: probably having a bit of a staffer revolt over the

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Speaker 1: decision by them to essentially take the same contract that

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Speaker 1: Anthropic couldn't sign and then claiming that they have the

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Speaker 1: same red lines that Anthropic did. So the point being is,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a significant step that you've seen some

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Speaker 1: companies for the first time publicly traded that not ever

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Speaker 1: that to say no to the government in government coersion,

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Speaker 1: we have seen pretty much every other major publicly traded

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Speaker 1: company essentially cave in. We are not seeing that there,

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Speaker 1: but that is not my focus for this episode. By

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Speaker 1: the way, let me give you a quick rundown all

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Speaker 1: of the Iran fallout is coming up here in a minute.

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Speaker 1: My interview is with Democratic Congressman Sean Caston, and I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you why I booked him. I booked him a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago because he's the first member of

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Speaker 1: Congress I've seen in some time who took a public

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Speaker 1: hearing and decided not to be a p normative jackass.

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Speaker 1: That we know this, that this is what these members

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Speaker 1: of Congress do. They just want to perform to just

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Speaker 1: make an algorithm feel good. They actually he actually asked

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Speaker 1: some substantive questions that were very difficult for the Treasury

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Speaker 1: Secretary to answer, and the Treasury Secretary had no answers,

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Speaker 1: And I just it was it was an example of

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Speaker 1: how a member of Congress should be doing their job

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Speaker 1: versus how we see so many of these members of

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Speaker 1: Congress now who have have no clue of what the

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Speaker 1: job is, let alone do they have any clue about

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Speaker 1: the actual Constitution, since none of them apparently realized that

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Speaker 1: Congress's Article one. So that's the guest my time machine today.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say it couldn't be more timely. Obviously, in

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours the midterm election season kicks off. I

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of my Thursday podcast sort of previewing

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Speaker 1: that I'm going to have a lot more on Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: And of course I want to alert you we're going

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Speaker 1: to do in a live stream in partnership with my

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Speaker 1: how Chrystal Isit Decision Desk HQ, we are going to

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Speaker 1: be the first place you can see results in Texas,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina and Arkansas. The Decision Desk folks are the

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Speaker 1: best in the business when it comes to calling elections

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Speaker 1: and projecting which way things are going. They are faster

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Speaker 1: than everybody out there, including all of the legacy media.

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Speaker 1: And so you know where to turn. And we'll be everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I'll be on my live streams, We'll be on the

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Speaker 1: Decision Desk, live streams will be on crystalizis live streams,

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Speaker 1: that includes Twitter, that includes substack, that includes YouTube. I

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Speaker 1: should say X instead of Twitter, so algorithm doesn't screw

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Speaker 1: us up there, right, But you'll be able to find

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Speaker 1: us in a ton of places. And as you know,

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Speaker 1: this is everything's bigger in Texas, right, And this is

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Speaker 1: a big one. And these two primaries are something else.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to get to a little bit of

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Speaker 1: fallo up from that. But my time machine, let's just say,

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Speaker 1: is well timed. History aligned really well when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the state of Texas and my preview there. But

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Speaker 1: all that aside, there's your quick preview. Let's dive in.

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Speaker 1: I would say the title for this monologue that I

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Speaker 1: would put in here is ends, means and the precedent.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about Iran, but this isn't just about Iran.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about credibility, executive power, and something

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Speaker 1: bigger than a single strike. Because if you zoom out

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Speaker 1: from the battlefield details from the political spin, from all

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Speaker 1: the media framing of this, whether on cable news or

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Speaker 1: other legacy media, or even here in the independent space,

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Speaker 1: there's a pattern. And the pattern can be summed up

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Speaker 1: in one phrase. The ends justify the means In many ways,

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Speaker 1: this is the mantra of the Trump presidency, of the

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Speaker 1: Trump era. Everything Donald Trump seems to do, who involves

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Speaker 1: an outcome first and not caring about the process in

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Speaker 1: Iran maybe the clearest test yet for that premise. So

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Speaker 1: let's start with the basics. According to the administration, and look,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this up here up top, this administration's

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Speaker 1: credibility with telling honest information that the public is quite low.

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Speaker 1: They do not always tell the truth. We know it.

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Speaker 1: They lie a lot, they lie regularly. I think the

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Speaker 1: Pentagon lies less than other aspects of the administration. We

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Speaker 1: know if you see a White House spokesperson speaking, that

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Speaker 1: is the lowest level of credibility. I don't mean to

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Speaker 1: rag on this, but it's really problematic when you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with war and peace. Okay, But all we have is

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Speaker 1: the administration on this, and in this case, I think

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Speaker 1: military and intelligence sources are less likely to lie to

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Speaker 1: reporters and lie to us then some. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that they're not capable of it. I'm not naive, but

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Speaker 1: the ones without political skin in the game are usually

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Speaker 1: the ones that lie the least. So it is, it

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Speaker 1: is important. So here's what we think we know the strike.

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Speaker 1: The US parts of the strikes targeted three categories of assets,

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Speaker 1: the nuclear enrichment facilities, related infrastructure, more missile and weapons

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Speaker 1: production sites, select Islamic Revolutionary Guard, core command and control nodes,

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Speaker 1: and then of course Israel. We know struck many of

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Speaker 1: the regime and may have been the ones that actually

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Speaker 1: took out the Ayatola. Now what was the stated objective?

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Speaker 1: This has been a moving target to degrade around nuclear

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Speaker 1: breakout capability, re establish de terrence, and prevent what officials

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Speaker 1: describe as a narrowing window before we across the threshold.

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Speaker 1: That was the rationale for those July strikes, right, and

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Speaker 1: so we don't know what the real rationale is. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it changed a bit. Right at the State of the Union,

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Speaker 1: we got a rationale. First we completely obliterated their nuclear program. Then,

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Speaker 1: of course they've said we're fearing them trying to still

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Speaker 1: re establishment, and they had some red lines in negotiations.

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Speaker 1: Second we added Marco Rubio. Did this added fear of

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Speaker 1: ballistic missiles reaching the United States. Now, the intelligence assessment

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Speaker 1: says that was probably ten years away from being true.

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Speaker 1: It certainly was true that Iran ballistic missiles could hit Europe.

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Speaker 1: So maybe we do care about the security of Europe

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Speaker 1: at the moment. But the bottom line is, in this

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Speaker 1: decision to go, there was really no smoking gun, right.

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Speaker 1: There was no drone strike on US soil, There was

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Speaker 1: no Pearl Harbor moment, there was no dramatic in sighting

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Speaker 1: incident laid before the American people. Instead, in some ways,

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Speaker 1: officials described it as a strategic clock that ran out.

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Speaker 1: And this matters because when a president who ran for

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Speaker 1: three different presidential cycles. As a quote, peacemaker launches preemptive strikes,

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Speaker 1: preemptive strikes. This was not retaliation preemptive strikes. The first

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Speaker 1: question voters are asking, and all of us are asking,

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Speaker 1: is why now, why this moment now? The answer officially

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Speaker 1: was urgency having to do with their military program and

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Speaker 1: the bad faith negotiations. You know, this was sort of

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Speaker 1: Iran was on the clock. They didn't they The Americans

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Speaker 1: have said that they think the Iranians were negotiating and

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Speaker 1: bad faith in Geneva. I'm going to get to that

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Speaker 1: more in a minute. It's interesting the skepticism that Steve

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Speaker 1: Woodcuff has for the Iranians versus his lack of skepticism

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Speaker 1: that he has for the Russians. But again, we're going

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Speaker 1: to get to that. But here's the thing. When you

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Speaker 1: strike both the nuclear spine and parts of the security apparatus,

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Speaker 1: you are operating in a grey zone between non proliferation

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Speaker 1: and destabilization. And that's where the bigger questions begin. Right

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Speaker 1: There was always you were always going to get bipartisan

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Speaker 1: support to get rid of the nuclear ambition, and you

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Speaker 1: could have gotten a vote in Congress for that regime

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Speaker 1: change that was a taller order, and if this is

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Speaker 1: now the stated goal, this likely means we have a

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Speaker 1: lot more responsibility. So let's talk about the uncomfortable truth

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Speaker 1: that history teaches us. Air power can remove leaders. We

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Speaker 1: just did it with Kamani, but it almost never by

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Speaker 1: itself produces stable regime change. Toppling is the easy part.

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Speaker 1: The vacuum is the hard part. We learned that in

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Speaker 1: Iraq the hard way. Remember the celebrations getting Saddam Hussein

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Speaker 1: felt like a big moment, and it was a temporary,

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Speaker 1: big moment, you know, it led to mission accomplished. Man,

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Speaker 1: the vacuum was the hard part, and in some ways

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Speaker 1: we're still dealing with it. It's still not resolved, it's

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Speaker 1: still unstable. Okay, that vacuum is a is still not

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Speaker 1: filled in Iraq, and here we are with a new

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Speaker 1: one in Iran. Of course, one of the mistakes we

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Speaker 1: now say that we learned from Iraq was was not

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Speaker 1: about removing Saddam. It was failing to anticipate the fragmentation

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Speaker 1: that followed. So now when you listen to the president's rhetoric,

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Speaker 1: he at least at least rhetorically understands that lesson from

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Speaker 1: Iraq because he's called on the Iranian military forces to

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Speaker 1: lay down their weapons and surrender and in some ways

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Speaker 1: help help with help the keep the peace, help defend

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Speaker 1: the people. But who are they supposed to surrender to?

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Speaker 1: To whom? The civil what's the civil society activists? By

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Speaker 1: the way, we've done, We've we we've stripped away all

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Speaker 1: funding from our US media agency that was designed to

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Speaker 1: essentially support the civil society activist community in Iran. We

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Speaker 1: got rid of Voice of America in Iran and all

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Speaker 1: of these things. So we've done. We have sort of

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Speaker 1: less resources for a moment like this, Right if you knew,

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Speaker 1: if Donald Trump knew a year ago that he was

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Speaker 1: going to do this, then it makes the cuts of

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Speaker 1: the US agency when it comes to that runs information

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Speaker 1: agency that essentially oversees Voice of America, that this was

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Speaker 1: an incredibly shortsighted and terrible mistake. So who are they

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Speaker 1: supposed to surrender to? It's not clear who the civil

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Speaker 1: society activist, Kurdish or the Balucci autonomy movements that are

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Speaker 1: sitting there. How about the monarchists that are loyal to

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Speaker 1: raise a Pahlavi. He wants to sort of be reinstall

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Speaker 1: the Iranian monarchy, breakaway factions of the Iranian Guard. And

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Speaker 1: here's what complicates all of this. Iran is not politically frozen.

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Speaker 1: The protests in twenty two and twenty twenty three showed

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Speaker 1: genuine went popular dissatisfaction with the regime right, the economy astrained,

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Speaker 1: the regime had plenty of fissures, so there was real

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Speaker 1: pressure inside of Iran. There was this idea that Iran

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Speaker 1: could crumble with maybe without the system of the military.

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Speaker 1: But given what the Iranian regime did to the protesters,

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Speaker 1: there was a humanitarian case to make to help those protesters.

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Speaker 1: But should we have done that a month ago? But

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Speaker 1: I digress. That said, all of all of these protest

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Speaker 1: movements are fragmented in their leaderless right. Unlike Venezuela, who

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Speaker 1: actually had an opposition movement, we could have that that

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Speaker 1: was elected. There was an actual opposition elected in a

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Speaker 1: in An that we believe was elected far and square

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Speaker 1: in an election that Maduro claimed went another way. But there

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Speaker 1: is no unified opposition structure waiting in the wings. So

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Speaker 1: what what? What? What's going to happen next? The question

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Speaker 1: of whether anger can consolidate into governance. Right, That's what

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Speaker 1: makes this what comes next so unpredictable. Who are we

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Speaker 1: working with? There's been some talk that the current president

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Speaker 1: of Iran he thinks he sees in my title. Source

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Speaker 1: tell me that he may see himself as sort of

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Speaker 1: the Gorbachev of Iran, helping to transition from a theocracy

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Speaker 1: to some form of a democracy. Right, we don't know

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Speaker 1: quite what it's going to look like, but that he

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Speaker 1: can be a transitional figure. Does Trump find his own

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Speaker 1: delce Rodriguez? Right, the vice president of Maduro who basically

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Speaker 1: has agreed to be a leader in name only of

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Speaker 1: Venezuela as long as she pays pays the boss in

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Speaker 1: this case, Donald Trump, a certain amount of money and

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Speaker 1: or control of the oil assets, and then suddenly he's okay.

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Speaker 1: So is there that person that exists? That's unclear. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the Israeli factor. Was the United States

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Speaker 1: tagging along? Was Israel leading this or was this the

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Speaker 1: United States decision? I think that's up in the air.

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Speaker 1: The administration's briefing reportedly suggested Israel was going to strike regardless,

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Speaker 1: and the only question was whether the United States would

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Speaker 1: go along. Would go alongside them or wait till Iran

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Speaker 1: retaliated and then jump in. So it raises a deeper issue.

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Speaker 1: Did the United States get boxed in by net Yahu's timetable?

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Speaker 1: Or did the White House use Israel's momentum as the

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Speaker 1: convenient means to achieve its own end. That's the difference

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Speaker 1: between tag and a law and providing the shield the

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Speaker 1: detern umbrella that allows Israel to strike harder. So was

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Speaker 1: the tail wagon the dog? It's an open question. I

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Speaker 1: know some people believe they know the answer, but they

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer for sure. Did Washington decide that

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Speaker 1: aligning publicly with Israel strengthened deterrence and projected strength. That

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Speaker 1: distinction also matters because this was a provocative strategic choice.

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Speaker 1: This is a war of choice, not a war of necessity.

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Speaker 1: Famous Tim Russer question to George W. Bush back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four. I believe it was was a

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Speaker 1: rack of war of choice or a war of necessity.

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Speaker 1: That answer is infamous in presidential rhetoric war because if

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Speaker 1: this was a provocative, proactive strategic choice, that's one debate.

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Speaker 1: If it was reactive to Israeli action, that's a different

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Speaker 1: War Powers debate entirely. This episode of the Chuck Toddcast

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Speaker 1: the code chuck toodcast. Now let's lean into something even

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Speaker 1: more uncomfortable. So we went back, and I went back

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Speaker 1: and looked at the tape for three election cycles twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, and twenty twenty four, Donald Trump and his

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Speaker 1: surrogates warned that Democrats were going to drag America into

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Speaker 1: war with Iran, and Trump regularly said it would lead

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Speaker 1: to World War three. He used the phrase repeated, and

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Speaker 1: it goes way back, folks. Twenty eleven, Trump predicted Obama

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Speaker 1: would start a war with Iron to get reelected. Project

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Speaker 1: much Donnie. In twenty twelve, he warned against playing the

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Speaker 1: Iran card again. One thing that Donald Trump does is

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Speaker 1: that he reveals his own thinking with his criticisms, doesn't

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Speaker 1: he In twenty twenty four, he said Kamala Harris would

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Speaker 1: cause World War three, and on inauguration Day twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: he said, my proudest legacy will be that of a peacemaker.

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Speaker 1: He has now killed two world leaders in a little

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Speaker 1: over a year in office in a second term. Excuse

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Speaker 1: me one world leader, and he's put one in captivity. J. D.

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Speaker 1: Van said the Democrats were sleep walking us into war.

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Speaker 1: Tulsi Gabbard warned of regime change war. By the way,

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Speaker 1: has she resigned yet? Just asking because she was adamant

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Speaker 1: that there is no One of the worst military decisions

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Speaker 1: in any president could make would be launching an attack

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Speaker 1: on a run. So we're waiting for her resignation. Pete

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Speaker 1: Egseth argue. Democratic weakness created endless wars. So the message

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Speaker 1: was clear, They'll meaning the Democrats, they'll start wars. We

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Speaker 1: the Republicans won't. Now, the same movement must reconcile, combat

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Speaker 1: strikes and regime change rhetoric to what they told the

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Speaker 1: American people. And this is where they've created themselves a

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Speaker 1: massive political problem here. This is not a small one.

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Speaker 1: This is why I am very skeptical this has any

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Speaker 1: domestic political benefit to Donald Trump. It may help his legacy,

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Speaker 1: and I'll get to that, and it may be all

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Speaker 1: he cares about anymore. He may have written off his

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Speaker 1: domestic political career, and this discis he is no longer

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Speaker 1: interested in helping rebuild America domestically. He is almost solely

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Speaker 1: focused on playing this rudimentary game of risk and just

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Speaker 1: going forward. Here, you know a man who's gone through

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Speaker 1: so many bankruptcies, who seems to you know, be willing

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Speaker 1: to live on a credit card for a while to

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Speaker 1: keep up appearances in order to find more suckers to

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Speaker 1: essentially do business with him, where he just extracts the

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Speaker 1: cash and leaves them holding the bag. He's pretty This

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Speaker 1: is a guy who's you know, thinks he can't lose

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Speaker 1: at the moment, and that should be of a small

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Speaker 1: concern to a lot of people. So is this going

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Speaker 1: to be a pivot? You know, I've always said Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump was you know, one of the things somebody once

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Speaker 1: said to me is Donald Trump's the least mega person

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Speaker 1: in any room of MAGA people. I think that was

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Speaker 1: a more polite way of saying he has no core beliefs.

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Speaker 1: He is a unilateralist, meaning what's in his gut in

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Speaker 1: the moment he acts unilaterally. He does not think about

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Speaker 1: consequences beyond what's good for him. Is this a legacy

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Speaker 1: defining moment for him? Is this a political help in

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Speaker 1: the moment? That's about the only two things he debates,

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Speaker 1: It appears when he makes these decisions. But this was

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Speaker 1: a unilateral decision. Is this going to turn into an

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Speaker 1: identic crisis for the America First coalition? I think it's

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Speaker 1: pretty clear Donald Trump's no America First guy anymore. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he ever was. But has he left an

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Speaker 1: opening for your rand Pauls of the world, who are

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Speaker 1: genuine in their belief of isolationism on this, who are

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Speaker 1: very skeptical of trying to dictate outcomes in other countries.

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Speaker 1: The anti Neocon wing of the Republican Party has to

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Speaker 1: justify what looks structurally like simple intervention, no different than

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Speaker 1: anything the Bush Chainey administration advocated. That's not just a

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Speaker 1: rhetorical adjustment, that's ideological gymnastics, and it doesn't automamatically make

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Speaker 1: the strike wrong. But it's a credibility issue, and that's

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Speaker 1: going to be the political fallout here. This may turn

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Speaker 1: out to be one of the best things to ever

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Speaker 1: happen in the Middle East. I'm not ruling that out

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Speaker 1: getting rid of Komen's I mean, just the quick aside here.

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Speaker 1: There's still an open question about whether Iran greenlit the

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Speaker 1: Hamas attack on Israel in October seventh. Supposedly, the Iranians

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Speaker 1: were skeptical of the idea and Hamas pushed it. Iran

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Speaker 1: could have stopped it if they wanted to, and they

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Speaker 1: chose not to. That I think we know it is

429
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: the greatest strategic blunder that they made, because at that

430
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: point there was no more there was no more restraining

431
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: Israel when it came to Hesbelo. They've essentially decapitated Hesbelo

432
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: when it came to the Hoodies. They're in a slightly

433
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: stronger position than husbital Love, but not much. And then

434
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: of course Hamas is basically mostly demilitarized, and that is

435
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: why Iran is so vulnerable and weak at the moment.

436
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: And that's why a bib Nan Yahu and the IDF

437
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: is saying, hey, there, let's not let them reconstitute this theocracy.

438
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: They're a scourge, frankly for the entire region. And looks

439
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: like the Sunni States all agree with this. And in fact,

440
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: you want to talk about a huge strategic mistake that

441
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: the Iranians made launching attacks on all these Gulf state

442
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: countries that happened to house either US or other Western

443
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: military bases, because they just whatever neutrality the Gulf States

444
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: might have publicly wanted to have, they don't have anymore.

445
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: And now we're learning via the Washington Post that in fact,

446
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: it was the Saudis that were the It was MBS

447
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: that was could working Trump the hardest on making on

448
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: doing this, on not backing down. Not Israel that talked

449
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: Trump into this, but the Saudi's. And we know how

450
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: much business, you know, how important the business relationships that

451
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: Trump has with the Gulf States which means they're going

452
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: to have a lot more influence than your average world leader.

453
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: But one will just to button up this little aside

454
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: here on Israel in Iran, so Iran makes that strategic mistake.

455
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: I think what we've learned about Iran is they're conventional

456
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: military as a joke, and they've been humiliated easily whenever,

457
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: I mean they were a paid they've been a paper tiger.

458
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: What gave them perceived strength was their asymmetrical terrorist sort

459
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: of contractors, right Hesbalah and Hamas and the Hutis were

460
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: much more effective as a military arm of the arrange

461
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: then the actual Iranian military itself. And when October seventh happens,

462
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: what Israel essentially systematically taking out all of these proxy

463
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: organizations that the Iranians were funding. It left the Iranians exposed,

464
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: which is why they're now in the position that they're

465
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: in now. And also, make no mistake, Israel is now

466
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: the military power of the Middle East without question. There

467
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: was always this idea that Iran had some hidden military strength.

468
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: This is clearly not it's it's let's just say it's

469
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: a huge mismatch with or without the United States, but

470
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: with the United States it's a massive mismatch. And the

471
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: biggest development over the last twenty five years since the

472
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: Iraq War is the alignment of all the Sunni states

473
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: with Israel and against Iran. And that is why Iran

474
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: is in the situation that they're in today. But let's

475
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: not you know, there's still an economic gamble to all this,

476
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: and we have to be aware of. Strikes on iron

477
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: traditionally send oil prices higher, which of course has all

478
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: sorts of economic impact. You know, if gas it's five

479
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: dollars a gallon, that doesn't make it an abstract issue

480
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: on geopolitics. It makes it a domestic issue, creates inflation,

481
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: hurts consumer confidence, impacts re election politics for everybody on

482
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: the ballot in twenty twenty six. Now, look, we are,

483
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: i think, at a situation where first of all, we're

484
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: not as dependent on foreign oil as we used to be. Yes,

485
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: it's going to have some impact, but may not have

486
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: as much impact as it would have, say even ten

487
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: years ago, fifteen years ago, or twenty years ago. In fact,

488
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: some of the biggest reasons not to do not to

489
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: attack Iran, say fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, was

490
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: the economic fallout that could come from it, and I

491
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: think the entire energy industry is in a more diversified

492
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: situation where knocking Iran out isn't going to have the

493
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: same impact as it would have had a while ago.

494
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 1: But it's still a gamble. Now here's something that I

495
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: think has gotten lost a little bit in the and

496
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: we're getting all sorts of tiktoks and all sorts of

497
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: stuff coming out. But one of the rationales that the

498
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: administration is hanging its hat on is that the Iranians

499
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: during these negotiations with wit Coffin Kushner in Geneva over

500
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: the last two weeks, and I'm I'm going to I

501
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: accept the premise that had the Iranians completely capitulated to

502
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: every demand the United States had, that Trump would have

503
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: cut the deal. I do believe that. And why do

504
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: we know this, because look, he's kept Delsi Rodriguez in

505
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: power as long as she gives him everything he asks for,

506
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: So I think there's something to that. Still, they're hanging

507
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: their hat on the idea that the Iranians were negotiating

508
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: in bad faith. Remember, these are the same two gentlemen

509
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: negotiating with the Russians with Guffin and Kushner. But here's

510
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: some questions. Why is the skepticism that's applied to Iran

511
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: not applied equally to Russia. Russia is repeatedly lied in

512
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: negotiations with the Ukraine, more so than the Iranians have lied.

513
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: The Iranians are actually upfront that they had some civil

514
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: nuclear ambition. Russia lies with all the time in these negotiations.

515
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: What's interesting here is the way Trump is bullying any

516
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: country that is smaller than US, Venezuela, Cuba, Iran. But

517
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: he's certainly nervous about alienating Russia, so he accepts the

518
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: lies from them and negotiations, and he just he is

519
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: pausing the congressionally approved sales of billions of dollars of

520
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: new weapons to Taiwan because he doesn't want to mess

521
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: up his meeting in China with She next month. So

522
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: he will capitulate to big powers. We're going to get

523
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: to that in a minute. Maybe this is about strategic calculus,

524
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: but the idea that we accept the lies of Russia,

525
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: but we slam the door in the Iranians as something else. Now,

526
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: maybe Iran is weak enough to strike decisively. Russia is

527
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: obviously too dangerous. China is too economically entangled. In other words,

528
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: the fights chosen by the president are the ones where

529
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: visible dominance is achievable rules of the jungle, and it

530
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: fits the ends justifies the means framework, which seems to

531
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: be essentially what I would probably make the title of

532
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: his presidential memoirs, because it's the only positive case you

533
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: can make. First presidency being a success is if the

534
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: ends justify all the terrible means that he went about,

535
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: battles you can win, use the win to validate an

536
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: expanded executive power. It's not moral commentary, it's just pattern recognition.

537
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: So here's where Congress only has itself to blame. So

538
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: in twenty h two Congress voted on Iraq. You can

539
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: argue it was mistaken, but there was at least a

540
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: vote here. There wasn't even an attempt. And if Congress

541
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: does not try to reassert its authority over war powers

542
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: in general, this is going to become precedent, not just

543
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: for Trump but for the next president. Power rarely contracts voluntarily.

544
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: It simply accumulates. And I have no idea why this

545
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: Congress has any It doesn't see this, but you know

546
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: this is now I will argue, this is nearly seventy

547
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: years of congressional dysfunction of shitty speakers of the House,

548
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: every one of them, who are more worried about protecting

549
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: their majority than protecting the Constitution. So I'm going to

550
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: close it this. Here's a real question if the outcome

551
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: in Iran is it tolerable? It's not perfect, it's not democratic,

552
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: but tolerable. Right, we get rid of the theocracy, there

553
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: is more freedom in Iran, women have rights. Will Americans

554
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: decide that the process itself never really mattered? This is

555
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: the scariest moment of all for US constitutionalists. Well, we

556
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: decide that Congress is optional, that persuasion is unnecessary. Right,

557
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: this president did not persuade the American public. This was

558
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: an action that we had to take. Nor did he

559
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: ask Congress for permission. Are we gonna decide that campaign lies?

560
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: Campaign rhetoric is all disposable, So we're not supposed to

561
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: believe anything they say anymore, so long as the strike

562
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: worked and justifies the means. Because let's be honest here,

563
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: you cannot spend a decade warning voters about World War

564
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: III under your opponents and then initiate military action yourself

565
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: without that contradiction meaning something. It doesn't automatically make the

566
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: policy decision wrong, but it makes the credibility part of

567
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: the story. And this administration's credibility was already near the bottom.

568
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: My goodness, I don't know how far much lower you

569
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: can get on credibility, but they have very very little.

570
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: And of course once you spend your credibility, you don't

571
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: get a chance. You don't replenish it very easily. Now,

572
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: maybe voters will decide consistency doesn't matter anymore. Ends justify

573
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: the means. They may decide constitutional guardrails or secondary to results,

574
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 1: ends justify the means. Then they're not just validating though

575
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: one decision. They're going to be validating a new method

576
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: to governing this country. It's how you become an authoritarian state,

577
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: to be honest. Once that method becomes precedent, and that's

578
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: the word here, precedent, the next president inherits it and

579
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: the one after that, So it's not just the strikes,

580
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: it's the precedent because of executive action first and congressional

581
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: consult consultation later becomes normal. Then we've just made a

582
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 1: change in our own constitutional republic, not quite regime change.

583
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: But it's a constitutional change and that one won't be

584
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: confined to Iran, and that, unfortunately, that's the debate we

585
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: should be having. We're not going to have it. And

586
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: I'll say this, I am I am, I am skeptical

587
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: that this is going to you know, not those sideways

588
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: in some form. That doesn't means it's not recoverable. But

589
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: we have so many unknowns here. And we now have

590
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: a president who's essentially agreed to rebuild Venezuela. He's openly

591
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: said he's ready to go rebuild Cuba, he's trying to

592
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: put together a coalition to rebuild Gaza. And now we've

593
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: helped break I mean, my goodness, we've got to if

594
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna regime change, are we're not going to be

595
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: there to help rebuild them? Wrong? What's the American voter?

596
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: Hear in.

597
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: Those are all places that are not in the United

598
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: States of America. And you don't have to be a

599
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: well credentialed political scientist to know that foreign affairs success

600
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: overseas rarely translates to votes at the ballot box. The

601
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: only time overseas incidents matter is when they're negatives. The

602
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: positives go away quickly just as George hw bus that

603
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: stuff rarely matters in domestic politics, and if anything, what

604
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 1: may matter more here and why this is possibly a big,

605
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: a much bigger political problem than this White House fully

606
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: realizes yet, is that they may feel good in the

607
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: moment they've got all sorts of allies, and it's exciting

608
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: for Iranians in the diaspora who might get their freedom

609
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: and get their country back. I don't know if that's

610
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: going to translate into any new votes for Republicans in

611
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, especially if the price of electricity keeps

612
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: going on, the price of grocery keeps going on. So

613
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: this is much riskier politically than I think he fully realizes,

614
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: even as if it may turn out to be much

615
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: less riskier in geopolitical strategy. That said, we got a

616
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: long way to go. Iraq is still a mess, Afghanistan

617
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: is still a mess. We intervened more than twenty years ago.

618
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: Ran is going to be suddenly now. It's if you

619
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: believe in the pottery barn rule. If you break it,

620
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: you own it. Iran is now going to be an

621
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: issue that we're going to be dealing with in the

622
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: near term for some time. The question is how much

623
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: patience with the American public half for that? All? Right,

624
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: Like I said, I have, it's a hugely consequential week

625
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: in campaign politics. I've gone a huge deep dive. I

626
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: just want to give you a quick little thing of

627
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing in this final weekend in Texas one.

628
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: It looks like Tallerico has a little bit of momentum.

629
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: All the internal polling I'm hearing about seems to have

630
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: him with a little more menium than Crockett. We shall see.

631
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: Cornin's folks are already trying to pre spin the idea

632
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: they're not going to be the leading vote getter. Donald

633
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: try Trump once again did an event right before he

634
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: launched the strike officially launched the strikes against Iran, where

635
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: he seemed to say I love all of you and

636
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: he refused to endorse. Let's see if we are in

637
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: two runoffs, Let's see who the Democratic nominee is. All

638
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: of that could have some impact on Trump. There's a

639
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: few other primaries worth watching. Tony Gonzalez, who's got the

640
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: who had the affair with the woman who killed herself

641
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: by lighting herself on fire. He seems to be in

642
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: a very precarious position, somebody pretty far to his right

643
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: challenging him in a primary. But he appears to be

644
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: in trouble no matter what. Either he survives his primary

645
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: or he doesn't, and that seat becomes, I think, pretty

646
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: vulnerable because you'll have, either way, somebody who will be

647
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 1: hard who have a hard time winning a general election.

648
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: The underrated primary of the weekend is Dan Crenshaw. He

649
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: is the only sitting incumbent Republican member of Congress and

650
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: the Texas delegation who does not have Donald Trump support.

651
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: That's going to be interesting one of the first tests. Right,

652
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: we know Massey and his primary is coming up in May,

653
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: but we're gonna get an early taste of what does

654
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: it mean when you're when you're when you're fairly well

655
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: known to be a conservative, which Dan Crenshaw is pretty

656
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 1: consistent conservative, just not a Trump secka fan. Is that now?

657
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: Is that enough to survive or is that a bridge

658
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: too far for the MAGA base? Are they going to

659
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: show up? How intense? And here's one more thing to

660
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: watch in Texas. I've had numerous strategists left and right

661
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: say the same thing to me, there could be more

662
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: Democratic voters because in Texas, the biggest number to watch

663
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: if you're trying to understand who's got momentum going into

664
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: the general election in November, is total turnout in a

665
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: primary in Texas. Right, will the Republicans have more voters

666
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: and their statewide primaries or will the Democrats? In Texas,

667
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: you get to pick which ballot when you go in there,

668
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: any vote registered voter, they get told you pick a ballot.

669
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: So it's my understanding that there are a lot of

670
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: what I would call Cornin tallar Rico voters. If you

671
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: and if you're a Cornin supporter who doesn't believe Cornn

672
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: can win, and you don't want to vote for Paxton

673
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: or Crockett, then you may pick a Democratic ballot and

674
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: vote for tall Rico. So it is we've seen this

675
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: phenomenon before New Hampshire presidential primaries in two thousand. I

676
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: remember it was McCain and the Republican primary, Bradley and

677
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: the Democratic primary. They were both fighting for the same voters,

678
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: and these independent voters which ballot were they going to pick?

679
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: It was independent voters who could pick either ballot, and

680
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: more of them pick the Republican ballot and McCain wins.

681
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: Had a chunk of more of them picked the Democratic ballot,

682
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: Bradley would have won that primary. So Cornin is in

683
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: competition not just with Paxton anymore, but with tall Ico.

684
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: For those that don't like Crockett or Paxton, right, does

685
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: it motivate them to jump into the Democratic primary to

686
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: pick tallar Rico or does it motivate them to go

687
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: in the Republican primary to pick Cornyn. It's just one

688
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: of the various ways and one of the sort of

689
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: under the radar ways to look at this race, and

690
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: certainly one that you know when you're following us in

691
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: live on election night, and we're going to be going

692
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: starting before the polls close, going all the way till

693
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: we've called all the major races in Texas, North Carolina,

694
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: and Arkansas. That's going to be among the things to

695
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: follow because if more democratic, if more voters pick a

696
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: Democratic ballot than a Republican ballot, then I think it's

697
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 1: fair to say Texas is in play in November. So

698
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: it's the under the radar stat to watch on Tuesday.

699
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: At this point, not a lot of not enough people

700
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: are talking about all right, So there you have it.

701
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: Like I said, a lot of stuff going on. Would

702
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: have more to say about Anthropic and more to say

703
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: about you know, legacy media of the future of CNN.

704
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: I'll save that if you have some questions, but I'll

705
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: probably save most of this for my podcast on next Wednesday.

706
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: From there, though, we've got a busy next twenty four

707
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: to forty eight hours. You got this podcast, you got

708
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: our live election I covered. So I hope you're not

709
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: sick of me because you have an opportunity to see

710
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: a lot of me over the next twenty four, forty

711
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: eight and seventy two hours. With that, I'll sneak in

712
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: a break when we come back. My conversation with Illinois

713
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: Democratic Congressman Sean Caston somebody who did more in a

714
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: committee hearing by not being a performative a whole. Sorry

715
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 1: for the colorful language there than what we've unfortunately gotten

716
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:07,239
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742
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743
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744
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Speaker 1: My mother single mother, now widow. Myself sixteen trying to

745
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746
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747
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771
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772
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: anybody elected after twenty sixteen I still call a new

773
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: member of Congress, but he's been there a few terms now,

774
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: so it's hard to call him a new member. And

775
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: we're going to get to that in a minute. But

776
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: it's Sean Caston. He is abl Democratic, sees me from

777
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: suburban Chicago, and we're going to make him describe his

778
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: district a little bit. He did the original district he won.

779
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: He flipped a Republican seat it has gotten after the

780
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 1: normal redistricting. I have to say normal redistricting now considering

781
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: all the different ways iterations that take place these days.

782
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 1: But he got I think a slightly less competitive district

783
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: these days. But I booked the Congressman because he did

784
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: something that I've been dying for somebody to do at

785
00:49:55,960 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: one of these open committee hearings. He asked detailed questions,

786
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: looking for a response, without being theatrical, without trying to

787
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: dunk on a person. He was just trying to get information,

788
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: and it went viral because the person that didn't answer

789
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 1: the question. In this case, it was the Treasury Secretary

790
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: didn't have an answer to what was a fairly simple question.

791
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: Though it was fraught with how he answered. It was

792
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: fraught with some political peril there. But it was a

793
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: reminder that you don't have to yell, you don't have

794
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: to perform for something to go viral if you just

795
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: have a really good question and you stump the cabinet member.

796
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: So Congressman, is good to see you.

797
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 3: Thank you, and it's nice to be recognized for not

798
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: doing this job just so that I can become an influencer.

799
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, that's it is you know, I

800
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: used to joke and part of it is the way

801
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: leadership has sort of hijacked Congress. And I say that

802
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 1: I use that term intentionally because when I first started

803
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: doing this in the early nineties, committee chairs meant something,

804
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: subcommittee chairs meant something, and leadership would be deferential to

805
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: committees and to subcommittees and things like that. Now you know,

806
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: they're four hundred and thirty one excuse me, five hundred

807
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: and thirty one elected pundits and four people that make decisions.

808
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 1: And it's and and when you do that, eventually you'll

809
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 1: stop having legislators and you'll start having more political pundits

810
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: as elected officials. You know. I I remember I interviewed

811
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: Jake Laturner. I don't know if you remember him.

812
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's left. He had no reason to leave other

813
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 3: than Bob's big boys body double by the.

814
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: Way, Yeah he is a but he he essentially left

815
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: because he didn't want to be an influencer that seemed

816
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: to be what it is he was. Look, he's more

817
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: of a Paul Ryan conservative and that's out of vogue

818
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: these days in the Republican Party. But he saw that,

819
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, if he did something thing that meant that

820
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: was good for his district. On the Egg Committee, nobody

821
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: was going to cover it, and he figured that that

822
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: Congress was, you know, more Marjorie Taylor Green and Alexandria

823
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: Casio Cortez than it is, you know, the grinders.

824
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 3: Do you feel that well, so I have a more

825
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 3: I have maybe a more boy scouted view of Congress.

826
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 3: I think hearings. Hearings have always been really important. There

827
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 3: are places to get information. It's also not lost that

828
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 3: in the age we're in, for better or for worse,

829
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 3: they're all on TV, and so there's always going to

830
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 3: be some theater too.

831
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: Now I blame TV for a lot of problems. I mean,

832
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: I think the minute the cameras got come came on.

833
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this is why I'm not for cameras in

834
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: the courtroom generally. I'm for audio. I'm for live audio.

835
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: I think the transparency matters. But I think that there's

836
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: something that triggers human beings to behave differently when they

837
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: know it care.

838
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 3: There definitely is, and I guess the only thing that

839
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 3: I'd say in their defense is that, particularly when you're

840
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 3: in the minority and you can't control the legislative calendar,

841
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 3: the only tool you really have in the minority is

842
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 3: to move public opinion. And so there is a value

843
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 3: in the televised hearings the extent that you can inject

844
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 3: something in. I mean, look, as you said, I'm on

845
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 3: your show today because I injected something into the public

846
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 3: conversation about what was going on in Venezuela and some

847
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 3: of the legal authority that wouldn't have happened if this

848
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 3: was a closed door hearing. And so there's there's there's

849
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 3: value within that. And you know, but you.

850
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: Also showed that you can you could do something that

851
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,919
Speaker 1: may I don't believe you were trying to be performative.

852
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 3: Okay, no, well, I mean I'll tell you candidly because

853
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 3: there was a there was a political reporter who was

854
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 3: asking all of us the day before, what are you

855
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 3: going to ask persent? And I said, what I know

856
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 3: is that he is going to be filled with talking

857
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 3: points from the Trump administration. He's going there's going to

858
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 3: be a lot of theatrics because that's his style. And therefore,

859
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to

860
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 3: ask him because I'm working on some things that I

861
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 3: don't want him to be prepared for. Because I want

862
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 3: him to be engaged in this. And this report came

863
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 3: to me afterwards, and he said, I understand why didn't

864
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 3: tell me now, But what we were trying to do

865
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 3: was to say I had earlier written a letter to

866
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 3: the oil majors pointing out to them that because the

867
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 3: Trump White House has not outlined any legal authority for

868
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 3: seizing Venezuelan and oil, any investments they might make to

869
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 3: refine distribute that oil, they're going to be exposed to

870
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 3: Venezuela's creditors, the largest of which is China, because this

871
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 3: is a fraudulent conveyance. And I had wanted to go

872
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 3: in with that, and we got the good fortune the

873
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 3: bad fortune that a day or two before, Marco Rubio

874
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 3: had been before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and had

875
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 3: made some suggestions about things that we knew were legally

876
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 3: not true. And so it was just an opportunity to

877
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 3: go and frame those conversations with percent to say, Okay,

878
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 3: you either have to you either have to agree with Rubio,

879
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 3: in which case you're in a problem, or clarify. Clarifying

880
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 3: which is going to put you in a pickle. And

881
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 3: I didn't want him to be prepared and we had

882
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 3: to and we had to keep our tone down because

883
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 3: if he got on the defensive of starting to throw

884
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 3: out all of the you know, the Pam BONDI burn

885
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 3: book stuff, five minutes goes pretty quick in that situation.

886
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: Well, what what I found interesting is that Besson didn't

887
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: react sort of as as a you know, the the

888
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 1: you know, he's you know, at first, he was sort

889
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 1: of tried to be an adult when he first took

890
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: the job, and now he you know, you see him.

891
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: I guess he's an adult behind the scenes now, But

892
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: you do, you know, because I think he look, I

893
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: think he does talk Trump off off of some ledges

894
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: that are even worse than the ledges that Trump uh

895
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: that we see Trump go out on. But I've noticed

896
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: that Besson is clearly trying to get on the President's

897
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: good side by by being performative in public against the

898
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 1: quote unquote owning the Libs or whatever it is that

899
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 1: that Scott Besson thinks he has to do to keep

900
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 1: his job. But he didn't do that with you. Why

901
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: do you think that is? You think he was embarrassed

902
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: that he didn't know the answer.

903
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 3: I'm not sure he understood the question to be honest.

904
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if he did it either.

905
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 3: Right, because and this was where we get into it,

906
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 3: because Rubio had said that Treasury was managing these funds

907
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,240
Speaker 3: under their authority, and we knew that Treasury didn't actually

908
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 3: kept saying what authority, yeah and so and so, you know,

909
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 3: at least framing the question that way, you can't say, well,

910
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 3: this is just because you know you're some will liberal.

911
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 3: You either have to point to the specific one of

912
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 3: the you know, Congress has given Treasury ninety one separate

913
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 3: authorities to manage ninety one different types of trust accounts.

914
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 3: If if the Treasury Department had done what Rubio said

915
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 3: they it had done, the Treasury Secretary would know which

916
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 3: of those trust accounts applied. And when you read those

917
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 3: ninety one trust accounts, and noe of them actually fit

918
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 3: the bill. So, I you know, I think I think

919
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 3: he is trying to well, let me not expect that

920
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 3: what I was trying to do. I think there was

921
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 3: no way for him to answer that question in ways

922
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 3: that just sort of made Trump happy that he went

923
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 3: viral and made a Democrat look bad.

924
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I fear something worse. I fear

925
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: that they haven't thought about this yet.

926
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 3: Well, look, and I don't want to. It's dangerous to

927
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 3: go down too many conspiracy rabbit holes if we If

928
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 3: you agree with my point that they have not well,

929
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 3: this isn't just this isn't even that's something I'm agree with.

930
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 3: The Trump administration has not given any indication that they

931
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 3: have any legal authority to take Title de Vendenzwael and

932
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 3: oil or to distribute Venezuelan and oil. As a result

933
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 3: of that, you now have this account that we're taking.

934
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 3: They've moved it to Cutter, which is a whole other

935
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 3: set of problems because there are superios where Treasury takes

936
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 3: custody to accounts, but we keep them in US banks

937
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 3: where we can monitor. This is now in a place

938
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 3: that's notorious for hiding money, right, and then said that

939
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 3: they have no auditor in place to monitor the inflows

940
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 3: and the outflows. Well, if you were doing all that,

941
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 3: and you take Trump in his face that there are

942
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 3: a lot of bad people in Venezuela who are using

943
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 3: money to funnel drugs and run these narco terrorism empires,

944
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 3: how do you possibly know that the money you're distributing

945
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,959
Speaker 3: back to Venezuela isn't going to those bad actors. And

946
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 3: as I was asking the questions, what I was trying

947
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 3: to get them to acknowledge is, I'll stipulate for the

948
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 3: purpose of the hearing that Maduro is a bad guy.

949
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 3: You didn't want them to go through there. Why wouldn't

950
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 3: you have an audit regime in place to monitor that?

951
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 3: Rubio said they did have an audit regime regime. Bessen

952
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 3: said they didn't have one yet, but would set them up,

953
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 3: which suggests that the two of them didn't coordinate their story.

954
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 3: And so now this raises this is where the conspiracy starts.

955
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 3: Is it not being audited because it's going to shady

956
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 3: characters Venezuela or is it not being honored because it's

957
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 3: going to shady characters in the United States?

958
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: Right, I don't know if they want to.

959
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,919
Speaker 3: Time, would you even know how to answer that question? Right?

960
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: Well, it gets into this administration, and I think you know,

961
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: and I'm curious if you now see this trickling down

962
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: to the cabinet secretaries. Look, if the president doesn't believe

963
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: that some of these rules don't apply to him, separation

964
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: of powers doesn't apply, you know, all these little things,

965
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: and it takes the Supreme Court rebuke that he got

966
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: last late last week on tariffs, and even then, he's

967
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: not really accepting the rebuke the way normal presidents would.

968
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: A normal president would do one of two things, find

969
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: another you know, find another way, or ask Congress to

970
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: give him the authority whatever. You know. They they he's

971
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: just attacking the institution itself. Do you get the sense

972
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: now that many of these cabin agencies that come before

973
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: you guys in these hearings, when they do these testimonies,

974
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: they feel as if they don't really have to abide

975
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: by the rules of Congress. They just have to do

976
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: just enough performance and they'll be protected by the majority.

977
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 3: Sadly, that's true, and frankly that's probably been true for

978
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 3: a long time. I mean, you remember, you know, Jim

979
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 3: Jordan denied au sub poena to come and testify before

980
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 3: January sixth, and he was never really prosecuted for that.

981
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 3: And so I think there is a sense that if

982
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 3: you know, a government based on the rule of law

983
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 3: is predicated on the idea that the people enforcing the

984
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 3: rule of law will comply with the rule of law.

985
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 3: That's that falls apart pretty quickly.

986
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: A constitution becomes a piece of paper if you don't

987
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 1: use it.

988
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I think there's a I think there's a

989
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 3: separate issue in this Trump administration, and I certainly don't

990
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 3: want to, you know, be here praising Jeff Sessions. But

991
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 3: in the first Trump administration, he was constrained because there

992
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 3: were a number of people in his administration, people like

993
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 3: John Bolton, people like Jeff Sessions who understood the independence

994
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 3: of what they had to do and you know, respected

995
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 3: the president, were there to carry out his orders, but

996
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 3: took took their oath to the constitution. Seriously, the people

997
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 3: who Trump nominated for cabinet secretaries, virtually to a person,

998
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 3: where nominated because they'll take orders, and anybody who was

999
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,919
Speaker 3: going to stand ups has been merged from the party.

1000
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 3: I mean, Adam Kinsinger and I did not agree on

1001
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 3: very much. That Adam Kinsinger was dangerous because he challenged

1002
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 3: the president. I agree with Marjorie Taylor Green on virtually nothing.

1003
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 3: She's dangerous because she challenges the president. And so the

1004
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 3: people who are left there. I mean, think of all

1005
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 3: the criticisms Trump had of Marco Rubio back in the

1006
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 3: presidential race. Those criticism stung because Marco Rubio He's a

1007
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 3: beta dog, right, that's who.

1008
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: Well, I joke. You know what Marco, Marco needs to

1009
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: know and understand that when when Venezuela go south, or

1010
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 1: Cuba go south, or Irongo south, whichever one of these adventures,

1011
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: that either we're about to embark on or have embarked

1012
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 1: on and we haven't and it sort of had some

1013
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: either becomes unpopular for some reason or whatever. It's Rubio

1014
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: that's getting thrown under the bus. Yeah, and you know

1015
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: this is how he operates. He does not It is

1016
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: never his fault, no matter what happens, but it is.

1017
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: It also explains Congressman, you know what you've never heard

1018
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: ever out of this White House. Donald Trump had a

1019
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: meeting today with one of his business partners from thirty

1020
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: years ago. Donald Trump had a meeting today with an

1021
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: old college roommate. Donald Trump had a meeting today with

1022
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: some he has no friends or colleagues or acquaintances that

1023
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: will do business with him who did business with him

1024
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: in the seventies, eight nineties, or the first at.

1025
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 3: Least not since I've stained died.

1026
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: Right, I mean every but he went through. It's a

1027
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: pattern about it. I mean you look at it from

1028
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: first term to second term, you basically have Steven Miller. Yeah,

1029
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's basically it. And so because

1030
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: when he loyalty is one way with him, and when

1031
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: he throws somebody away and they you know, that's it

1032
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: and they won't come back. You know, most of them

1033
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: don't come back into the fold unless they're kind of

1034
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: like Lindsey Grant, right, who were just desperate for it.

1035
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I mean it's like it's a certain type

1036
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 3: of person I was. I was a CEO for sixteen

1037
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 3: years in the energy industry before I came to cons

1038
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 3: and there is a certain type of person who is

1039
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 3: who is transactional and always wants to make sure they

1040
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 3: get the best end of the deal. And you never

1041
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 3: do a deal with that person twice.

1042
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: Right.

1043
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 3: The people who.

1044
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 1: That's been the view of that's basically Donald Trump in

1045
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: his life. Nobody's ever done it second deal with him.

1046
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the parable of Giuliani.

1047
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: Right, let me ask you about why you're in Congress. Congress.

1048
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: You know, when you look at our problems today, it

1049
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: is ultimately Congress's fault. Like this is, and I go

1050
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: back forty years. Congress's inability to do things is put

1051
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: pressure on the courts. Congress's inability to do things is

1052
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: put pressure on the presidency's Congress's decisions to to not

1053
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 1: make tough decisions, to let the executive branch do it.

1054
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: And it's been sort of a slow thing, right, It's

1055
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,439
Speaker 1: it's an emergency here, trade authority there. You know, it's

1056
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: been it's been over time. But here you are running.

1057
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 1: You're a CEO. Here you are and I so I'm

1058
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: glad somebody who's had a real career, meta pay role

1059
01:04:55,160 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: wants to come to Congress. But it is not a fun,

1060
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 1: small d democratic institution these days, particularly when you join

1061
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: starting in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. What keeps you there?

1062
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 3: Well, so let me let me give you what I

1063
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 3: take a lot of inspiration from. There's a lot of

1064
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,919
Speaker 3: beauty in the story. So I twenty eighteen. We sold

1065
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 3: our company in twenty sixteen. I was trying to figure

1066
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 3: out what to do next. I had a one year

1067
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 3: non compete, so I couldn't work in the industry that

1068
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 3: I was in for a year. And I started going

1069
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 3: around because I was frustrated that my representative wasn't standing

1070
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 3: up to Trump, and I felt like what we needed

1071
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 3: in this era, someone was standing up to Trump and

1072
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 3: my my big issue for my whole life has been

1073
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 3: trying to do something about climate change that the businesses

1074
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 3: I ran and most of what the legislating I've done.

1075
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 3: And a good friend of mine, Katie McGuinty, who had

1076
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 3: been the head of the Council of Environmental Quality and

1077
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 3: the Clinton White House, she said, I'm not going to

1078
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 3: encourage you to run, but I will tell you that

1079
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 3: this is if you know what you want to I

1080
01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 3: want to have written on your tombstone about what you

1081
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 3: can try to the Earth during your time on it.

1082
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 3: There's no better job than being a member of Congress.

1083
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 3: And if you don't know what you want written on

1084
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 3: your tombstone, there's no worst job, because you have such

1085
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: enormous levers that you can pull on. And so you know,

1086
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 3: in my private sector life, we deployed a couple hundred

1087
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 3: million dollars I'm worth the capital projects, made some money

1088
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 3: for various investors. It looks good in a resume. My

1089
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 3: first year in Congress, cint a billion dollars of legislation

1090
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 3: passed specifically to deploy clean energy technologies. Not that not

1091
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 3: that things are measured in dollars. But this was a

1092
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 3: fresh number of Congress and movement in different ways. And

1093
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 3: the part of it that I think is sort of

1094
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 3: beautiful and inspiring is that the I flipped a seat

1095
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 3: that had been Republican for fifty years. There were forty

1096
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 3: of us in that class of eighteen who flipped seats.

1097
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 3: Of the forty of us, Jennifer Wexton, Ben mccadams, and

1098
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 3: Anthony Brindec had held prior elected office. The other thirty

1099
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 3: seven had never held any elected office before coming.

1100
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 1: No, it's what made it a really good class.

1101
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 3: And you know, and it was you know, me and

1102
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 3: Dean Phillips had been CEOs. Lauren Underwood with a nurse.

1103
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 3: Alissa and Abigail were spies. Tom Melanowski and Andy Kim

1104
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 3: were in the State Department. JOHNA. Hayes was a teacher.

1105
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 3: You had all these people who you know, the single

1106
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 3: greatest thing that Donald Trump has ever done is he

1107
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 3: made people feel like they wanted to contribute to society. Right.

1108
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 3: And yes, you know, the I think everything that you

1109
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 3: say to criticize Congress is fair. I think it goes

1110
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 3: back way more than twenty years. I went forty founders,

1111
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 3: our founders created a Congress that was the Article one branch.

1112
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 3: It was where all the people were, it was where

1113
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 3: all the budget was. Congress is now less than one

1114
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 3: half of one percent of the total federal budget because

1115
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 3: every time we identify a problem, we basically create an

1116
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 3: executive branch agency to fix it, and we gradually, you know,

1117
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 3: make ourselves weaker and weaker. And I, you know, I think,

1118
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 3: other than other than the War Powers Act, I'm hard

1119
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 3: pressed to think of a time where Congress took power

1120
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 3: back from the other agencies or the other branches. But

1121
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 3: I can think of lots of time, starting with Marborie

1122
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 3: versus Madison, where the judicial branch took power from the

1123
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 3: legislative branch, lots of times where the executive has taken

1124
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,600
Speaker 3: power from the legislative. And I think we're vastly overdue.

1125
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 3: You know, if we still believe that it's important to

1126
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 3: have a government with three co equal branches, we got

1127
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 3: to be a little more equal. And I think we

1128
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 3: need to sort of push for some structural reforms and

1129
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 3: the while I'm not naive about how long it's going

1130
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 3: to take, what other job could I possibly get where

1131
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 3: I could actually have a role in fixing that.

1132
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: You have made the case for why you should be there,

1133
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: and I appreciate that attitude. I fear that not many

1134
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: have the same attitude that you have. You know, some

1135
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: wanted as a stepping stone as well. Some are you know,

1136
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: some are some actually want it on their resume so

1137
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 1: they can say they did it on that front. But

1138
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: let's talk about so one of the way. One of

1139
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 1: the ways I describe myself as I always say, I'm

1140
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 1: short term pessimistic, but long term optimistic. That history shows

1141
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 1: that when we are in these moments, we do the

1142
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 1: structural changes or updatings that are needed, and the only

1143
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: question is whether how much violence it takes before we

1144
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:42,679
Speaker 1: get to that point. And I know that sounds harsh.

1145
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: I don't mean to sound dumer gloom, but when you

1146
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: look at the we've really only had about four periods

1147
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: where we've made serious changes to the constitution to try

1148
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: to update the democracy, right at the start, during and

1149
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 1: after the Civil War, UH and the period that I'm

1150
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 1: currently obsessed with theasically the first twenty five years of

1151
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: the twentieth century, where we had where we had three

1152
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 1: of the most important reforms that were added to the constitution,

1153
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:13,799
Speaker 1: women the right to vote, income tax, and direct election

1154
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 1: of senators, and all three were really direct responses to

1155
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 1: what felt like a crisis in the moment. It felt

1156
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: like income inequality was out of control with the industrialists

1157
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 1: and they weren't paying their fair share. Tariffs were not

1158
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: the way to fund a government. People realize this. The

1159
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: democracy felt like it wasn't really responsive to the people.

1160
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: I think we now feel that same that same thing.

1161
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: Now I've got my own theories as to why that is.

1162
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: I think Congress is too damn small, but we'll get

1163
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 1: to that in a minute. And of course, with the

1164
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 1: feeling that hey, the Senate's rigged, and it was a

1165
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: bribery scandal, by the way, in the great state of

1166
01:10:56,200 --> 01:11:03,959
Speaker 1: Illinois that helped accelerate the direct election for senators. Illinois,

1167
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: of course has its fair share of scandals political scandals

1168
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 1: over the century.

1169
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 3: But you say a bribery scandal involving an Illinois senator,

1170
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 3: I have to ask which one you refer to.

1171
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: I know, I know, you know, I knew my five

1172
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 1: governors had served time. I was like, oh wow, so

1173
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: they also were the cause of the direct election of

1174
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 1: senators too. Yeah, apparently votes went for thirty five grand

1175
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 1: in today's dollars was what a vote for a US

1176
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: senator was in the state ledge back in nineteen oh nine.

1177
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: But you know, a couple of weeks ago, there's a

1178
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:40,799
Speaker 1: there was a constitutional amendment that was introduced in Congress

1179
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: to give Congress nullification powers on pardons if if enough

1180
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:51,720
Speaker 1: members decided it was yes. Well it was actually I

1181
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: think Johnny Olewinsky he introduced it, and Bacon became the

1182
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: first Republican to sign on to it. What's the appetite?

1183
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: You sound like you're a reformer. You sound like you'd

1184
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: like to get involved in some of the updating of

1185
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 1: the American democracy, reforming the institution. Maybe it's a constitutional amendment,

1186
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:15,919
Speaker 1: some stuff you can do just with an Act of Congress.

1187
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 1: What are the reforms that you'd like to focus on

1188
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 1: for the rest of this decade?

1189
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 3: So, Number one, I think you are spot on that

1190
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 3: there are so many echoes both to the reconstruction era

1191
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 3: and the twenties, and I think trying to not repeat

1192
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 3: their mistakes of reconstruction, but also to recognize, like we

1193
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 3: I think we appropriately lionized Teddy Roosevelt because he was

1194
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,640
Speaker 3: someone who came in and said I'm not going to

1195
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 3: burn the institutions down, but I'm not going to praise

1196
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 3: them as being perfect either. We have to make some

1197
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 3: significant structural reforms to fix this, and it's, you know,

1198
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 3: the whole trust busting era. I think that, arguably, you know,

1199
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:57,679
Speaker 3: is what set us up for such a booming century.

1200
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 3: I think if you look at the reforms we've made

1201
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 3: over time, everything we're really proud of in our history

1202
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 3: has made democracy more inclusive, whether that was expanding the

1203
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 3: franchise to women, to minorities, to Native Americans, direct election

1204
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 3: of senators. The most anti democratic institutions in the United

1205
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 3: States are still the ones that hold us back. The Senate,

1206
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:25,559
Speaker 3: the Electoral College, and the structure of the Supreme Court.

1207
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 3: The Senate sort of has a self destruct button that

1208
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 3: Article five of the Constitution says that you can't you're

1209
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 3: not even allowed to amend the Constitution in a way

1210
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 3: that would reduce the proportional power of the states. Because

1211
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 3: I think our founders understood how deeply anti democratic the

1212
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 3: Senate was and what the problem is. We've introduced a

1213
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 3: bill to get around that in a sort of a

1214
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 3: sideways way by saying, let's create twelve nationally elected at

1215
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 3: large senators, so that the Senate would actually have a

1216
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 3: significant block of senators who had to be responsive to

1217
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 3: national public will as a way to fix that. The

1218
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, i think, on any objective analysis, has always

1219
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 3: been political and has always been lowercase C conservative. I mean,

1220
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 3: with the exception of the war in court, they have

1221
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 3: always protected the power of incumbents over expansions of democracy.

1222
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 3: And there's nothing particularly wrong with them being political, other

1223
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 3: than the fact that they tell themselves a story that

1224
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:29,760
Speaker 3: they are just gods on high who live in a

1225
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 3: temple and dispense wisdom and they're not political actors, and

1226
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,640
Speaker 3: yet we all know they are. And so we've introduced

1227
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 3: some legislation that would basically take advantage of the fact

1228
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:44,600
Speaker 3: that Article three of the Constitution specifically says that the

1229
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 3: jurisdiction of the Supreme Court is limited to disputes between

1230
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 3: the States, admiralty law, maritime law, matters related to ambassadors,

1231
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 3: and such a pullet jurisdiction, as the Congress provides. So

1232
01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 3: Congress has the ability, if we choose, to strip all

1233
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 3: the pellet jurisdiction from the Supreme Court. And so what

1234
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 3: we've done is introduced legislation that would say the Senior

1235
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:09,759
Speaker 3: Appellate Court would now be a separate court and judges

1236
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 3: would be randomly assigned from the seventy or eighty Senior

1237
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 3: Circuit Court judges, so that you couldn't you couldn't choose

1238
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 3: your docket, right, and that would go through to set

1239
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,759
Speaker 3: that case, so that we would actually have you wouldn't

1240
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 3: have a way to politicize the court and do that.

1241
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 3: We can do that, you know, and I for one

1242
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 3: think that Clarce Thomas and Samuel Ldo are really good

1243
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 3: at maritime law and admiralty law and they could continue

1244
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 3: to do that. Matters relating to ambassadors, Fine, you can

1245
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 3: have your lifetime appointment. I think beyond that though, on

1246
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court, prior to nineteen twenty five, the Supreme

1247
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 3: Court didn't get to set there on docket. Congress gave

1248
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 3: them the power to set their docket and grant cert

1249
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 3: in the Judges Act of nineteen twenty five. We could

1250
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 3: take that away, right and all of a sudden you

1251
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 3: wouldn't have the situation where Thomas makes a footnote in

1252
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 3: a dissent and somebody says, Okay, I see what you're saying.

1253
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 3: If I bring this case, we can go in and

1254
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 3: bring this down. We can take that away. We could

1255
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 3: we have the power of the purse. Why don't we

1256
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 3: always give the Supreme Court one hundred percent of the

1257
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 3: appropriation they ask for. We could go back and say

1258
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 3: we're going to give you less next year unless you

1259
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 3: institute the following ethics reforms. Right, let's make people trust

1260
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 3: the court. So these are all things that we could

1261
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 3: do within our power. And I know there are a

1262
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:34,520
Speaker 3: lot of conversations.

1263
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm one of those who thinks incentives.

1264
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: You got to fix incentive structures, meaning you can have

1265
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 1: a good person with bad incentives, they'll do bad things. Yeah, agree, right,

1266
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 1: And a bad person with good incentives can end up

1267
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:55,839
Speaker 1: doing good things. You know what if it took seventy

1268
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 1: five votes to confirm a Supreme Court justice, I promise

1269
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 1: you would get people that were the least partisan people

1270
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 1: you could find, no matter who the president was.

1271
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 3: True, although I would remind you of that Hamilton's line

1272
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 3: that supermajorities create the problems they're designed to solve.

1273
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: I understand that he argues that, but he also argues

1274
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 1: in Federal seventy eight that the goal should be to

1275
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: find the least if the goal in finding a judge

1276
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:25,640
Speaker 1: is whatever it takes to get the least, you know,

1277
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: sort of the most neutral person you can get. That

1278
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 1: was the point of lifetime appointments. I mean, look, imagine

1279
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: if we didn't have lifetime appointments, Donald Trump would have

1280
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 1: fired Neil Gorsicch this weekend. Yeah, okay, right, I think

1281
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:39,600
Speaker 1: that's a We do know that he probably does that

1282
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:42,760
Speaker 1: and probably would have fired Amy Coney Barrett after, you know,

1283
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 1: a couple of times ago. So it is I take

1284
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 1: your point on supermajorities, but if you so. I had

1285
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 1: a source of mine who worked in the Bush Justice

1286
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 1: Bush Council office in the in the Bush w forty

1287
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 1: threes and back then it took sixty votes essentially to

1288
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 1: get a judge through, and he said if it had

1289
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 1: been fifty that they wouldn't have nominated any of the

1290
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 1: people they nominated.

1291
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, what, Kevin, I got what fifty one votes? Like? Right?

1292
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 1: So the point is is that we haven't had you

1293
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:25,759
Speaker 1: would you'll nominate a partisan, You'll nominate a partisan warrior.

1294
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 1: I think the three liberals are you know, I mean,

1295
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 1: I think Kagan's the least of the least partisan of

1296
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 1: the three liberals. But I think all of them are

1297
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: more partisan warriors than Stephen Bryer was or Ruth Bader

1298
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 1: Ginsburg was. And you certainly see that with Alito in particular.

1299
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he certainly is a partisan warrior. Canically he

1300
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 1: came through during the sixty the sixty zone.

1301
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 3: Just I mean, and I don't have a way legislator

1302
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 3: to fix this because of Article five. But it's worth

1303
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:59,639
Speaker 3: noting that for every state in every country that's copied

1304
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:02,400
Speaker 3: the US form of democracy, none of them copied the

1305
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:06,440
Speaker 3: structure of the Senate's true, you know, the the over representation.

1306
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 1: By the way, we don't when we export a democracy,

1307
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: we also recommend multi member districts.

1308
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's funny so many this was probably three

1309
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:20,919
Speaker 3: or four years ago. We run a bipartisan b cameral

1310
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:25,439
Speaker 3: trip to Iceland. Iceland has had they have the longest

1311
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 3: continuously active parliamentary form of government. They first met in

1312
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 3: like the year nine hundred. There's all this fascinating history,

1313
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 3: and so we're meeting with them and they're showing us

1314
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 3: their chambers and they described how sometime in the last

1315
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 3: century they essentially adopted the US form of government, and

1316
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 3: they went through and he said, after twenty years, we

1317
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 3: got rid of what you would call the Senate because

1318
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 3: it just come things up. And they're sitting there and

1319
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 3: Tom Carper gets this big frown in his face and

1320
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:56,000
Speaker 3: all of us House members starting But there's sort of

1321
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 3: an acknowledgment that that that structure. And I say this

1322
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 3: on the because the Senate always is going to skew

1323
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 3: you know, conservative and again in the lowercase ce sense,

1324
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 3: because it always overly represents rural areas, people closer, and

1325
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:16,639
Speaker 3: you know, we're sort of you know, you know, traditional,

1326
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:19,840
Speaker 3: all that sort of stuff. And maybe that made sense

1327
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:23,640
Speaker 3: in seventeen eighty nine, but it means that, you know,

1328
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:27,599
Speaker 3: the the swing vote in the Senate is always very

1329
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:29,639
Speaker 3: far to the right of the median American voter.

1330
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:36,560
Speaker 1: Look, the national senators aren't because I have a founding,

1331
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:40,960
Speaker 1: founding father historian and she's she runs the George Washington

1332
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:45,760
Speaker 1: Library right now at Mount Vernet, and her fix for

1333
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 1: the Senate is to essentially carve out you know, you

1334
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 1: basically you take the top six, get five senators. The

1335
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: top six most populous state gets five senators. The next

1336
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:03,800
Speaker 1: say six, get for senators. The next five or six

1337
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:09,000
Speaker 1: get three, and then everybody else gets two. I don't

1338
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:11,680
Speaker 1: know if that passes Article five muster.

1339
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 3: Only it does because it says that you can't you

1340
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 3: can't amend the Constitution in any way that would change

1341
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:18,960
Speaker 3: the proportional representation in the Senate.

1342
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:22,719
Speaker 1: But it's a but in some ways, what you're describing

1343
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: a twelve national Senators is potentially one thing. Let me

1344
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 1: get something that I'm obsessed with because I think it

1345
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:35,599
Speaker 1: solves a couple of problems without touching the Constitution, and

1346
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 1: that is and that is uncapping the House.

1347
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 3: I'm going to able to do that too.

1348
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: It is we are you know, when we shut it

1349
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: down in nineteen thirty when they when they locked it

1350
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 1: in at four thirty five, we were at about one

1351
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 1: per three hundred and fifty thousand each district. We're now

1352
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 1: one per eight hundred and as I like to remind people,

1353
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand is the population of the fifteenth largest

1354
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 1: city America. I don't think the founders meant for four

1355
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five congressional districts to be all the

1356
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 1: size population wise of one of the fifteen largest cities

1357
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:14,800
Speaker 1: in America. So if you go back to what it

1358
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:17,559
Speaker 1: was in nineteen thirty because we were doing it every decade,

1359
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 1: expanding the House with the size of the population. I

1360
01:22:21,439 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: think you might need a constitutional amendment to put a

1361
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: put a numerator in there and say that no congressional

1362
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:28,200
Speaker 1: district can be bigger than point oh three percent of

1363
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: the Right. Now, that would make it point oh three

1364
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: percent of the population. If we went to one, say

1365
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:36,639
Speaker 1: three point fifty one per four hundred right around there,

1366
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: we'd have about eight hundred and fifty eight hundred and

1367
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 1: seventy members of Congress. But what it really does is

1368
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 1: that it allows the electoral College to level, basically become

1369
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: a level playing field. Wyoming goes from being six six

1370
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 1: times more more an advantage of a presidential vote over

1371
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 1: a Californian. They still have an advantage, but it's two

1372
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 1: and a half. So it's it's what I would argue

1373
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 1: it keeps and what the founders always wanted, which is

1374
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: at the small stage should get a little more influenced,

1375
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 1: but not a lot more influence. Right, two and a

1376
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:16,160
Speaker 1: half to one feels better than six to one, and

1377
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 1: I think it would make jerrymandering just less necessary. You're

1378
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 1: going to have it in some places, but it's it's

1379
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 1: less and somebody's harder to do, and you probably lower

1380
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 1: you probably diversify Congress just by sheer numbers in ways,

1381
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 1: and you'll get different walks of life and and it

1382
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 1: will be the people's House again. But try telling, try

1383
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 1: making the case that the problem in Washington is not

1384
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,080
Speaker 1: enough politicians.

1385
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:47,800
Speaker 3: Well, it's it's number one. It's worth reminding people that

1386
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:49,720
Speaker 3: for all the people who work in Washington, only five

1387
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty seven of them won an election. If

1388
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 3: you're concerned about size of government, the elected folks are

1389
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 3: not the problem. So we've we've got we've got legislation

1390
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 3: to do that. We we the way we did ours

1391
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 3: is say we will on every going forward census, you

1392
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 3: expand the members of the You expand the number of

1393
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:11,640
Speaker 3: members in the House, rather than expanding the number of

1394
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 3: people we represent. And you lack a district at five

1395
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 3: hundred thousand. We picked five hundred thousand for sort of

1396
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 3: arbitrary reasons. But there's been a number of political scientists

1397
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 3: who look at this cube root law that if you

1398
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:26,320
Speaker 3: look at all the parliamentary democracies of the world, you

1399
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 3: put population on one access how many members. It kind

1400
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 3: of follows a cube root and it's about five hundred.

1401
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 3: So at least just say, well, we know this works

1402
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 3: because other governments kind of run on this Formut.

1403
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:39,680
Speaker 1: I'll just tell you my math. When I went to

1404
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,679
Speaker 1: I went to the fiftieth largest city in America, which

1405
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:45,800
Speaker 1: happens to be Arlington, Texas. They have a population of

1406
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: four hundred thousand. Fair enough, I thought, you know what,

1407
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 1: that's pretty that they are one community of interest, right,

1408
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 1: A suburban you know, small city from Dallas is a

1409
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 1: community of interest, And I thought so felt fair. But

1410
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 1: I take your point at five hundred. I mean, I

1411
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: think at this point four to five hundred isn't a

1412
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 1: huge Yeah.

1413
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 3: The distinction there's there are people smarter than me who

1414
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:13,679
Speaker 3: have argued that you increase the odds that the chance

1415
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 3: for gerrymandering Shenanigan's if you expand, and I can't argue

1416
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 3: either side of that. I think, broadly speaking, you are

1417
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:24,599
Speaker 3: going to get more districts where there are more people,

1418
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 3: which means that I think you counter some of the

1419
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 3: reason why the electoral college stuff works out is that

1420
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:33,520
Speaker 3: essentially large rural areas are overrepresented. Urban areas are underrepresented.

1421
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:35,360
Speaker 3: Since the people are in the right that levels that out,

1422
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 3: you're going to skew more votes that way. We added

1423
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 3: a provision that said if any state has more than

1424
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 3: two districts allocated, they can at their choice go to

1425
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:52,599
Speaker 3: multi member districts with rank choice voting, because there's there's

1426
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 3: some really interesting analysis that if you have a multi

1427
01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:01,800
Speaker 3: member district, it's really hard to jerry mander so that

1428
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,040
Speaker 3: the top two are of the same race and same

1429
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 3: party all the time. You can do that for the

1430
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 3: top one, but it's hard to do it for the

1431
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 3: top two. And so if you get a situation where

1432
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:15,520
Speaker 3: you know, me and whoever comes in second are representing

1433
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 3: the same communities, you should in theory get rid of

1434
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 3: some of the polarization in Washington. But put it that way,

1435
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:25,120
Speaker 3: and we're with other ideas, but that's the way that

1436
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:25,840
Speaker 3: we've structured it.

1437
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:38,840
Speaker 1: Look, you're one of the few members that engages in

1438
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:41,800
Speaker 1: this conversation. There aren't many members that are thinking about this.

1439
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 1: You know, is it a caucus of twenty thirty who's

1440
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 1: the group that you're working with that are animated on this.

1441
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:52,559
Speaker 3: So I would say there have always been a number

1442
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,599
Speaker 3: of members, you know, Don Byer from Virginia is very

1443
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 3: thoughtful on this. Earl Bloomen Hour was great, still is,

1444
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:00,560
Speaker 3: but not a member of Congress anymore. Me rasking is

1445
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:03,639
Speaker 3: very thoughtful. I think. I think the challenge that all

1446
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:06,080
Speaker 3: of us get in you know, we're elected every two years.

1447
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:08,040
Speaker 3: We got to stay focused on things that the public

1448
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 3: cares about. And I think the number of members who

1449
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 3: think about this stuff and care about it is much

1450
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 3: higher than the number of members who are willing to

1451
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 3: say I'm going to prioritize this over all the things

1452
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 3: that voters are telling me to prioritize at any given time.

1453
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 3: And so I was. I did a thing about this

1454
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 3: with some various other podcasters recently, and when everybody said,

1455
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:30,280
Speaker 3: what's the most important thing we can do to drive

1456
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:33,559
Speaker 3: this forward is just make noise about it. You know,

1457
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 3: the more that voters care, the more that those of

1458
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 3: us in elected office have to do something about it.

1459
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:40,519
Speaker 1: Now I've made it a huge part of any time

1460
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,599
Speaker 1: I do a speaking gig. I talk about this all

1461
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 1: the time, like there are things that we can do

1462
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 1: and you don't even have the pass constitutional amendment and this,

1463
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 1: this to me, is one of the biggest small de

1464
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 1: democracy reforms you can make without a constitutional amendment, because

1465
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:56,840
Speaker 1: then there's a bunch of it, there's a bunch of

1466
01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:01,519
Speaker 1: after on effects that are that are interesting.

1467
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:03,600
Speaker 3: And I would also say that whether it's you know,

1468
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:07,559
Speaker 3: five hundred thousand or four hundred thousand, the barriers are

1469
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 3: more construction. Like we've probably need another office. We could

1470
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 3: do that. There's space on the mall.

1471
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 1: You know what I'd love to do. You know what,

1472
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 1: I'd love to see that we flip the script and

1473
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 1: a majority of all staff is in the district and

1474
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 1: only a small handful of staff is in Washington. I

1475
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: could argue that you could you could do that. I'd

1476
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 1: also allow for remote voting. I think that with eight

1477
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty members of Congress, maybe that is something

1478
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 1: because here's the thing, you know, if you make it

1479
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 1: just a little bit harder for the lobbyist to find

1480
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 1: the member of Congress, maybe that's not so bad.

1481
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna sound like an old fuddy duddy.

1482
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:50,639
Speaker 1: Who I know you're gonna last to see.

1483
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:52,120
Speaker 3: Well, I was, you know, the last time I was

1484
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 3: a CEO was before COVID. I'm still a firm believer

1485
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:56,640
Speaker 3: in the water cooler.

1486
01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:00,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that isn't look. I'd love to see that.

1487
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:01,880
Speaker 1: I'd love to see all of the members of Congress

1488
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 1: move here with their families. I think that, you know,

1489
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 1: if you want to. There's I teach a class called

1490
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 1: How Washington Works to college students, and I was doing

1491
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 1: a whole thing on Congress last week and I said,

1492
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 1: we've had these various moments where it just got worse

1493
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:26,360
Speaker 1: for a specific reason, and this current era it began basically,

1494
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:28,760
Speaker 1: it began with the rise of Ingridge and the rise

1495
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 1: of Gingrich happened because of partisan of a partisan decision

1496
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 1: by Democrats back in eighty six in an Indiana congressional district.

1497
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:39,240
Speaker 1: It's known as the Bloody eighth. It's a it's got

1498
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 1: sort of this this there's a sort of mythical status

1499
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 1: to it. But it gave rise to Newt, and then

1500
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: Newt when he became the leader, basically got rid of

1501
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:52,280
Speaker 1: he didn't want any more. He wanted all his members

1502
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 1: to be in the you know, he stopped people working

1503
01:29:54,840 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 1: Mondays and Fridays, and everything became about, you know, only

1504
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 1: be in Washington Tuesday through Thursday and be in the district.

1505
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 1: And that prioritize, not bring in your family, and then

1506
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:09,599
Speaker 1: you know that had all sorts of and frankly both

1507
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 1: parties now have accepted that schedule. And so yeah, I'd

1508
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,719
Speaker 1: love to see you guys two months here, one month

1509
01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 1: not here, two months here, you know, something like that.

1510
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:23,479
Speaker 3: But I'm curious, Chuck, does you think through that I've

1511
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,639
Speaker 3: only served obviously in the post ging Gridge era. There

1512
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:29,960
Speaker 3: are members who stay in DC through the weekends and

1513
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 3: there are those of us who go home. Broadly speaking,

1514
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 3: you don't stay in DC over the weekend if you're

1515
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:41,519
Speaker 3: not in a really safe seat. And so I would

1516
01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:44,760
Speaker 3: I would worry a little bit about that because since

1517
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 3: so much of this job as relationships, wouldn't that concentrate

1518
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:52,679
Speaker 3: power in sort of the senior safest seat members who

1519
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,680
Speaker 3: could stick around because you got to go back to

1520
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 3: your district if you don't know whether you're going to

1521
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 3: win your next election.

1522
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 1: Well, it could, But if you're changing the way Congress works, right,

1523
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:04,680
Speaker 1: and it's sort of everybody has to work two months on, right,

1524
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:08,800
Speaker 1: and it's sort of, then that's that's evening out a

1525
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 1: little bit. Look, I think the fact that you know

1526
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:14,880
Speaker 1: you could the other idea that sits out there is

1527
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 1: if you're going to do term limits for House members.

1528
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 1: And I'm not a huge fan of term limits. I

1529
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:26,200
Speaker 1: don't think they've worked in the state legislative level. I

1530
01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: think they've only made lobbyists more powerful. They've made governors

1531
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 1: more powerful, they've made state legislatures less powerful, just generally.

1532
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I could doing a broad stroke. But the

1533
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 1: best idea I've heard if you do institute term limits,

1534
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:43,640
Speaker 1: which would need a constitutional amendment, is to make the

1535
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:47,880
Speaker 1: House four year terms. And if you had the House

1536
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:51,680
Speaker 1: at four year terms, would you at least maybe for

1537
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 1: the first you know, And and by the way, if

1538
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 1: you end up doubling the size of the House, you

1539
01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 1: might actually want to have half the house up to years,

1540
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:01,800
Speaker 1: the other half up the other two years, and go

1541
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 1: with four years. There might be some logistical reasons to

1542
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:08,639
Speaker 1: do that. But if you did four year terms, would

1543
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,680
Speaker 1: it would it encourage what it discourage? Because right now

1544
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:15,880
Speaker 1: you're running for reelection. The day you get sworn in

1545
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:18,680
Speaker 1: on January third, you're dialing for dollars.

1546
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 3: And I again, I'm gonna sound boy scouty, but I

1547
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 3: had this conversation with Timmy Duckworth at one point you

1548
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 3: know who, of course was in the House before, and

1549
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:28,920
Speaker 3: she made the observation that the one thing she missed

1550
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:30,600
Speaker 3: about the House, like she didn't miss not having to

1551
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:32,920
Speaker 3: run every two years, right, what she missed was that

1552
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:35,680
Speaker 3: in the House you you have to be right on

1553
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:39,000
Speaker 3: the pulse of where Americans are all the time. And

1554
01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 3: in a six year term, you know, you can the

1555
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 3: first couple of years just working on things like dictated

1556
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 3: by your own wisdom, and there's a value in that

1557
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:51,320
Speaker 3: in the Senate, but you do that, there's you know,

1558
01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:54,120
Speaker 3: none of us like dialing for dollars. Some of us

1559
01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:57,960
Speaker 3: like kissing babies for weird reasons, and.

1560
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:01,760
Speaker 1: That in the Epstein files, be careful, sorry, think, but

1561
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:03,360
Speaker 1: there is.

1562
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:06,559
Speaker 3: A value in being out there and saying, Okay, where's

1563
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 3: the pulse of the country right now? And I have

1564
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:10,080
Speaker 3: to respond because I'm going to be on the ballot

1565
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 3: again shortly. I think our founder's got that right, even

1566
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 3: though the consequences of that have for a little goofy.

1567
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,800
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the Democratic Party brand.

1568
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:27,040
Speaker 1: There's a poll over the weekend that if you just

1569
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,800
Speaker 1: looked at Trump's numbers, you'd be like, oh, this has

1570
01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:33,439
Speaker 1: got to be good news for Democrats, right, He's sixty

1571
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 1: percent disapproved upside down in every issue. But then when

1572
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:39,439
Speaker 1: given the choice of you have the main problems, who

1573
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 1: do you trust? Democrats are Trump? They were both in

1574
01:33:42,479 --> 01:33:46,920
Speaker 1: the low thirties, and neither was also in the thirties.

1575
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:53,800
Speaker 1: The Democratic brand has really taken a beating. Do you

1576
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 1: think the four years of Biden were a successful four

1577
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:03,080
Speaker 1: years and it's just been bad messaging? Or is this

1578
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 1: a is this a much bigger problem than Democrats want

1579
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:07,040
Speaker 1: to face.

1580
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 3: So I never quite know what to make of those

1581
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 3: studies because are those polls, because named members always perform

1582
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:19,760
Speaker 3: well ahead of what the party idea is.

1583
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:20,080
Speaker 1: Like.

1584
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:23,240
Speaker 3: You know, Congress broadly is unfavorable, the Democratic Party is

1585
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 3: broadly unfavorable, the Republican Party is broadly unfavorable. Sean Caston

1586
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:32,280
Speaker 3: is popular, right at least in our district, you know,

1587
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:36,120
Speaker 3: you know, go on down the list, and I think

1588
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 3: the I think depending on the question we're asking. You know,

1589
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:43,840
Speaker 3: we for all sorts of reasons that you are well

1590
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 3: aware of, we have political parties. If you ask people

1591
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:50,599
Speaker 3: what are the things that you want government to do

1592
01:34:50,680 --> 01:34:54,720
Speaker 3: and where your values are, those those things are very

1593
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 3: popular across broad bipartisan swaths of the economy. We want

1594
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:01,200
Speaker 3: we want to get shot when we go to school.

1595
01:35:01,240 --> 01:35:03,519
Speaker 3: We think all people should have equal rights. We you know,

1596
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,080
Speaker 3: we want a peaceful transfer of elections. You know, those

1597
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:09,080
Speaker 3: things tend to skew Democratic in this moment. The brand

1598
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 3: isn't so good. But it's sort of like saying, do

1599
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:14,719
Speaker 3: you like do you like Jerry flavored kolas? That's one question.

1600
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:18,479
Speaker 3: What is the brand status of mister Pip that's a

1601
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:25,479
Speaker 3: different question, right, even though even though they're synonyms. So so,

1602
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:27,760
Speaker 3: all that really says to me is Okay, maybe don't

1603
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:31,640
Speaker 3: hang your don't hang your party after your idea and

1604
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:35,080
Speaker 3: get votes. But that doesn't necessarily mean whether or not

1605
01:35:35,160 --> 01:35:37,400
Speaker 3: Democrats or Republicans are going to win the next election.

1606
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:39,120
Speaker 3: I think ultimately that's a race by race.

1607
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:43,720
Speaker 1: No, I I guess what I'm I mean, do you

1608
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:47,280
Speaker 1: think the the party has a leadership problem or a

1609
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:50,559
Speaker 1: brand problem or is it just you know, a better

1610
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I look at look, I think a better

1611
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:57,200
Speaker 1: leader if Biden and I don't know, if maybe he

1612
01:35:57,240 --> 01:35:59,639
Speaker 1: had fifteen years younger, he could have done the job better,

1613
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:04,639
Speaker 1: could have traveled the country more or whatever. But I look,

1614
01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 1: I look at the Biden term, and I think a

1615
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:11,960
Speaker 1: better leader keeps the country from looking to Trump again. Like,

1616
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:14,120
Speaker 1: I think that a better leader turns and figures out

1617
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:15,640
Speaker 1: how to help the country turn the page. And he

1618
01:36:15,640 --> 01:36:19,600
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. Is that all on him? Was it circumstances?

1619
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 1: Was it starting the presidency with an impeachment trial and

1620
01:36:24,200 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 1: create an impossible situation? Maybe I'm not like, but you know,

1621
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 1: I do think that the Democrats are being punished by

1622
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 1: some voters for somehow not putting Trump away.

1623
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:44,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't know.

1624
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:46,000
Speaker 1: What that means in their head, right, It doesn't mean

1625
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:48,280
Speaker 1: putting him in jail, just means, you know, how is

1626
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:50,080
Speaker 1: it that we did not how did we end up

1627
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:51,040
Speaker 1: with him still here?

1628
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I think, look, everybody knows who the voice

1629
01:36:56,160 --> 01:36:58,400
Speaker 3: of the Republican Party is. Nobody knows who the voice

1630
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:00,800
Speaker 3: of the Democratic Party is right now. And that's not

1631
01:37:00,840 --> 01:37:02,919
Speaker 3: a criticism of the Democratic Party. That's just the reality

1632
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:05,800
Speaker 3: of when you're out of power in all three chambers ways,

1633
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:08,400
Speaker 3: nobody is. Nobody's going to look to the Senate Majority

1634
01:37:08,479 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 3: leader or Senate Minority leader to be the worst of

1635
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 3: the party, you know, or that you know etcetera, etcetera.

1636
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:16,920
Speaker 3: I think at the same time, Biden's great strength and

1637
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:20,519
Speaker 3: his great weakness was that he was a senator. Trump's

1638
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 3: great strength and.

1639
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 1: Way, by the way, you really don't like the Senate.

1640
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:25,479
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm not saying true. But that's not why

1641
01:37:25,479 --> 01:37:29,439
Speaker 3: I'm making a point. Trump's great strength and his great

1642
01:37:29,479 --> 01:37:32,479
Speaker 3: weakness is that he's always been a CEO, right. And

1643
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:36,479
Speaker 3: I think, and I say that that because Biden was

1644
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:40,479
Speaker 3: an extremely effective president in terms of the infrastructure bills

1645
01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:42,839
Speaker 3: that we passed, the climate bills, we passed, the recovery

1646
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:45,960
Speaker 3: from COVID, the way the economy turns around. He got

1647
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:49,080
Speaker 3: that done because he had a masterful understanding of how

1648
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:52,080
Speaker 3: to get things through the Senate. And I think that

1649
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:55,960
Speaker 3: reads to the American people as being way down in

1650
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:58,960
Speaker 3: process that I don't care about. Why are we Why

1651
01:37:59,000 --> 01:38:00,880
Speaker 3: am I having to talk about what we did to

1652
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,080
Speaker 3: make a compromise with Joe Manchin in order to get

1653
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:06,559
Speaker 3: this thing through. Compare that to Trump, who says, look,

1654
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:07,840
Speaker 3: this is what we're going to do. I don't care

1655
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:09,720
Speaker 3: what happens. I don't care where my favorability is. This

1656
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:12,960
Speaker 3: is where it's going. And I think there's a I

1657
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 3: think there's a forceful executive that we need in the

1658
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:18,080
Speaker 3: White House that you just don't get there if all

1659
01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:20,679
Speaker 3: of your formative years are crafted in a legislative body

1660
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:26,800
Speaker 3: with an houseource in it. We haven't had a leader

1661
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:31,400
Speaker 3: of the Democratic Party with executive experience. It's Bill Clinton, right,

1662
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:38,040
Speaker 3: and the Republicans consistently nominate people with executive experience. And

1663
01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 3: you know, when you look back, go back to your

1664
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:47,679
Speaker 3: period in the twenties, you know, Roosevelt, Teddy. Roosevelt walks

1665
01:38:47,720 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 3: into a room. You are not under any confusion of

1666
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:53,400
Speaker 3: who the top dog in this room is. Donald Trump

1667
01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:55,360
Speaker 3: walks into a room. You're nder no confusion about who

1668
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:57,680
Speaker 3: the top dog is. Joe Biden walks into a room.

1669
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:01,519
Speaker 3: He's a nice guy, right, and and like morally, I

1670
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:03,360
Speaker 3: like him. I think he was extremely effective for what

1671
01:39:03,360 --> 01:39:06,080
Speaker 3: he did. But I think we need to you know,

1672
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:10,320
Speaker 3: as we get to our nomination process, we need we

1673
01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:14,160
Speaker 3: need to get people who, you know, make it very

1674
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:15,639
Speaker 3: clear that this is where the buck stops.

1675
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 1: You want an alpha dog, whatever that means in the moment.

1676
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:25,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, look like, look we're at a moment that demands,

1677
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:27,439
Speaker 3: you know, I want a Churchill I want somebody who says,

1678
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:29,639
Speaker 3: I have nothing to promise you but blood, sweat and tears.

1679
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:31,800
Speaker 3: I can't guarantee will win, but I can guarantee we'll

1680
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:33,439
Speaker 3: lose if we don't fight. So once more to the

1681
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:36,320
Speaker 3: Battlement's my dear friend, Like, that's that's what we need

1682
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:40,000
Speaker 3: in this moment, right, Well, I don't particularly want someone

1683
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:42,519
Speaker 3: who's going to talk about the reconciliation process.

1684
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:47,920
Speaker 1: What have you seen out there that you like?

1685
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:56,360
Speaker 3: I mean for the people who are running or look,

1686
01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,760
Speaker 3: I'm gonna My prediction is that whoever we nominate is

1687
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:02,160
Speaker 3: not going to be someone who has that executive experience.

1688
01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 3: Does that mean a governor? Does that mean someone who

1689
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:07,360
Speaker 3: haven't named yet? I think it's a I don't think

1690
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:09,320
Speaker 3: the leading candidate at this point in the cycle has

1691
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:11,320
Speaker 3: ever emerged. I mean, scout.

1692
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:14,639
Speaker 1: Walkers, that is one hundred percent true. I didn't become president, right,

1693
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:16,960
Speaker 1: I remind people of this all the time. Well, just

1694
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:22,360
Speaker 1: the three Democratic presidents of my lifetime. I guess Biden

1695
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:26,559
Speaker 1: is the outlier because he was kind of always pulled

1696
01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:29,800
Speaker 1: well early on, and I've look, I've always viewed his

1697
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:32,559
Speaker 1: nomination as sort of a COVID accident. I don't think

1698
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:35,600
Speaker 1: he earned it. I just think it the band, you know,

1699
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:38,320
Speaker 1: the music stopped and everybody agreed to just give it

1700
01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:41,240
Speaker 1: to him. But if you look at the other three Obama, Clinton,

1701
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:43,200
Speaker 1: and Carter at this point in time and all of

1702
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:46,720
Speaker 1: those presidential cycles that they ended up president, they were

1703
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:49,120
Speaker 1: not the front runner at this point, and they were

1704
01:40:49,160 --> 01:40:53,919
Speaker 1: not even being they were they were barely registering as candidates.

1705
01:40:53,960 --> 01:40:56,800
Speaker 1: And the Carter and Clinton, and you know, Obama was

1706
01:40:56,800 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 1: seen as somebody that was going to be four years

1707
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 1: down the road, you know, he wasn't necessarily right away.

1708
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:04,639
Speaker 1: So I tend to agree with that. Do you think

1709
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:08,960
Speaker 1: this is a party that would nominate somebody with a

1710
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:14,240
Speaker 1: CEO background? And I'm not, you know, or it's unusual

1711
01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:15,920
Speaker 1: for the Democrats to do something like that, like a

1712
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 1: Mark Cuban or or you know.

1713
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 3: You know, or a governor. I mean, I think we

1714
01:41:22,200 --> 01:41:24,439
Speaker 3: we lionize the business sector a little bit too much.

1715
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:29,080
Speaker 3: Government's a fundamentally different job. I think it's important to

1716
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:31,519
Speaker 3: have somebody who's led a large organization, you know, who

1717
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:33,960
Speaker 3: has been who has been the decider in that. George

1718
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:36,320
Speaker 3: Bush is and you know, you could get that in

1719
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:38,639
Speaker 3: the private sector. You can get that in a governor's mansion.

1720
01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:42,200
Speaker 3: You know, you could get that, you know, you know,

1721
01:41:42,760 --> 01:41:45,240
Speaker 3: major cabinet secretary, you know it kind of. But I

1722
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:47,040
Speaker 3: think I think it needs to be someone with those

1723
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:53,720
Speaker 3: kind of backgrounds. I also think, you know, I think

1724
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:58,759
Speaker 3: you want somebody who's who's who's authentic. I think, without

1725
01:41:58,840 --> 01:42:00,519
Speaker 3: naming names, there are some people who are in the

1726
01:42:00,520 --> 01:42:03,160
Speaker 3: mix right now who are very different people when the

1727
01:42:03,160 --> 01:42:06,160
Speaker 3: curtain is down and when the curtain comes up, and

1728
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:09,320
Speaker 3: it becomes very clear as they go through, right, you know.

1729
01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:10,640
Speaker 3: And I think there are some people who are just

1730
01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:12,479
Speaker 3: sort of consistent in who they are at all in

1731
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 3: all moments. And I think that's again, like for all

1732
01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:21,040
Speaker 3: of Trump's faults, people appreciate that that he is who he.

1733
01:42:21,080 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 1: Is all the time.

1734
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:22,880
Speaker 3: Right.

1735
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:25,719
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting, let me and you may have already

1736
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:28,519
Speaker 1: kind of answered this question with your Churchill response, with

1737
01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:31,519
Speaker 1: your Churchill remark that you're really looking for Churchill, which

1738
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:35,960
Speaker 1: because one of the things that I like, tok, I

1739
01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 1: look at the divide inside the party right now is

1740
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:43,400
Speaker 1: less left versus center, and that exists. I think that's

1741
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:47,280
Speaker 1: more of a tactical debate. What I the real divide

1742
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:50,559
Speaker 1: I'm sensing and I think the Texas primary really sort

1743
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:56,680
Speaker 1: of shows this one pretty well. Is and even in

1744
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:59,920
Speaker 1: the presidential I could I could compare Gavin to Rob

1745
01:43:00,760 --> 01:43:02,760
Speaker 1: which is do you want a fighter or do you

1746
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:05,960
Speaker 1: want a united Are you looking? Are we looking for?

1747
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:09,599
Speaker 1: Is the next president need to be somebody who's going

1748
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:13,120
Speaker 1: to take the fight and one you know you're to

1749
01:43:13,560 --> 01:43:16,680
Speaker 1: or is the next president going to be tough but

1750
01:43:16,840 --> 01:43:21,040
Speaker 1: try to bring the country together? And I think it's

1751
01:43:21,040 --> 01:43:22,879
Speaker 1: a fun of Mike. I think there are some Democrats

1752
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:25,559
Speaker 1: who say, hey, we tried the united stuff with Biden.

1753
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:29,040
Speaker 1: It didn't work. It's time to It's time to you know,

1754
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:32,360
Speaker 1: get somebody who's not afraid to throw a punch, somebody

1755
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:35,439
Speaker 1: more like Bill Clinton. I mean, you could argue, do

1756
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:37,120
Speaker 1: you want Bill Clinton or Barack Obama? Right?

1757
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:37,960
Speaker 3: You know that?

1758
01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 1: And there's are distinctively they were two different types of presidents.

1759
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:43,400
Speaker 1: Where do you fall?

1760
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:49,760
Speaker 3: So I had this conversation with Pelosi after January sixth

1761
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 3: that I said, this moment calls on us to figure

1762
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:57,479
Speaker 3: out how to be better politicians than Abraham Lincoln, because

1763
01:43:57,520 --> 01:43:59,479
Speaker 3: in Abraham Lincoln second inaugur al. And he said it

1764
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:02,040
Speaker 3: may seem ste range to you know, for any just

1765
01:44:02,120 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 3: God to bless a man forarning his spread from the

1766
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:05,840
Speaker 3: sweat of another man's face. But let us not judge

1767
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:08,960
Speaker 3: less we judged ourselves. And the butt was Lincoln saying,

1768
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:11,839
Speaker 3: I don't I don't know how to unite the country

1769
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 3: and be morally clear about what just happened. And and

1770
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,440
Speaker 3: I think that tension has always been in our politics,

1771
01:44:19,479 --> 01:44:22,840
Speaker 3: doesn't you know? To be a uniter is to is

1772
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:27,120
Speaker 3: to forgive some sins. To not forgive the sins is

1773
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:30,800
Speaker 3: to not be a uniter. I see the divide as

1774
01:44:30,840 --> 01:44:32,640
Speaker 3: being a little bit different than you going into the

1775
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:37,520
Speaker 3: cycle that I think the particularly with the wealth inequality

1776
01:44:37,880 --> 01:44:41,200
Speaker 3: and with the huge disruptions and unemployment. My daughter's a

1777
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:44,799
Speaker 3: freshman in college right now. When we were looking at colleges,

1778
01:44:45,320 --> 01:44:47,160
Speaker 3: one of her comments was that every college she looks

1779
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:53,240
Speaker 3: at is sixty sixty five percent female. The you know,

1780
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:56,080
Speaker 3: you've you've got a whole lot of young men who's

1781
01:44:56,120 --> 01:45:01,280
Speaker 3: who's who's forward forward expectation is different than what they

1782
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:03,599
Speaker 3: thought it was going to be. And AI is making

1783
01:45:03,640 --> 01:45:06,639
Speaker 3: that worse because the jobs that are being displaced are

1784
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:10,240
Speaker 3: jobs that historically skewed very male people who analyze large

1785
01:45:10,240 --> 01:45:12,799
Speaker 3: sets of data, identified trends, and prepared memos for their bosses.

1786
01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:14,599
Speaker 3: Right whether that was a bank or a law firm

1787
01:45:14,680 --> 01:45:17,360
Speaker 3: or an engineering firm, there's a lot of uncertainty there.

1788
01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:20,960
Speaker 3: And I think the I think the person who gets

1789
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:24,600
Speaker 3: really energized at at Bernie Sanders Rally is not that

1790
01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:27,160
Speaker 3: much different than the person who gets really energized at

1791
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:31,000
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk Rally. The institutions are terrible, and I'm going

1792
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:33,800
Speaker 3: to support them and burns them down. Yeah, And I

1793
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:38,960
Speaker 3: think the I think there's sort of a nihilism at

1794
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:44,760
Speaker 3: the fringes that's really dangerous. If you come forward as

1795
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:47,840
Speaker 3: a politician and say, trust me, the institutions are going

1796
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 3: to be fine, you're not very credible. I think there

1797
01:45:52,200 --> 01:45:55,200
Speaker 3: are very few politicians I've seen, but I think this

1798
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:56,640
Speaker 3: is what we want. And I keep going back to

1799
01:45:56,680 --> 01:45:59,639
Speaker 3: Teddy Roosevelt, who says, I love the institutions and they

1800
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:01,680
Speaker 3: are desperately in need of repair, and this is what

1801
01:46:01,720 --> 01:46:05,680
Speaker 3: we're going to do right And that I think is

1802
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:09,320
Speaker 3: the more interesting divide right now. Not uniers of dividers,

1803
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:10,880
Speaker 3: but who's the person out there who can say I

1804
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:13,880
Speaker 3: can I understand your pain. I understand that the system

1805
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:15,360
Speaker 3: did not work for you in the way that you

1806
01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:17,439
Speaker 3: thought it was going to go for it. But we're

1807
01:46:17,439 --> 01:46:19,880
Speaker 3: not going to burn it down. We're going to work

1808
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:21,920
Speaker 3: together and make it better and make it more inclusive.

1809
01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:29,679
Speaker 3: Right Ah. You know, I keep going back to the twenties.

1810
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:32,200
Speaker 3: There was that There was that Louis Brandeis line when

1811
01:46:32,200 --> 01:46:34,000
Speaker 3: he said, when you have great concentrations of wealth, you

1812
01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:36,400
Speaker 3: only have three choices. You can let the wealth take

1813
01:46:36,439 --> 01:46:38,559
Speaker 3: over the government, which is to embrace fascism. You can

1814
01:46:38,600 --> 01:46:40,759
Speaker 3: have the government take over the wealth and embrace communism,

1815
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:42,960
Speaker 3: or you can break up the wealth and embrace capitalism.

1816
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:47,880
Speaker 3: Right there, you go, That's that's kind of where we are,

1817
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:48,320
Speaker 3: right But.

1818
01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:50,760
Speaker 1: That well, you're you're you're not wrong, I mean, I am.

1819
01:46:50,960 --> 01:47:00,280
Speaker 1: You know, if if if Trump supporters decide to prioritize

1820
01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 1: their economic concerns over their cultural concerns, there is a

1821
01:47:05,080 --> 01:47:06,840
Speaker 1: majority that will burn this place down.

1822
01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:08,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1823
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:12,160
Speaker 1: I have often I I you know, I it's sort

1824
01:47:12,200 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 1: of like there's a you know, the the you know,

1825
01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:18,679
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon and Bernie Sanders talk very similarly at times.

1826
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:22,559
Speaker 1: They have a lot more in common. They burning would

1827
01:47:22,720 --> 01:47:26,639
Speaker 1: hate neither one of them would accept that premise, though

1828
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:29,000
Speaker 1: they may agree in a couple of acknowledge that they

1829
01:47:29,040 --> 01:47:32,200
Speaker 1: agree on some of this stuff. But the distrust of

1830
01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:38,400
Speaker 1: big corporations in particular, I mean, you know, and I

1831
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:40,679
Speaker 1: think that moment is coming. And I think the question

1832
01:47:40,880 --> 01:47:43,960
Speaker 1: is is the person who puts that coalition together a

1833
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:47,920
Speaker 1: responsible actor or an irresponsible actor? I mean FDR was

1834
01:47:48,240 --> 01:47:51,560
Speaker 1: did that FDR put that coalition together? And he was

1835
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:52,599
Speaker 1: a responsible actor.

1836
01:47:53,360 --> 01:47:58,040
Speaker 3: I find myself thinking that there's almost an exact parallel,

1837
01:47:58,040 --> 01:48:02,040
Speaker 3: but exactly inverted to the Reconstruction era time it was,

1838
01:48:02,120 --> 01:48:04,160
Speaker 3: you know, the Democrats were the party of essentially the

1839
01:48:04,160 --> 01:48:08,599
Speaker 3: oligarchs and the white working class. The Republicans were everybody else.

1840
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:11,479
Speaker 3: And if you're the oligarchs in the white working class,

1841
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:15,680
Speaker 3: you have plenty of room for the klan, right. But

1842
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:19,519
Speaker 3: in that era, the Republicans who said we need to

1843
01:48:19,520 --> 01:48:23,200
Speaker 3: hold people account for their sins, they were the radical Republicans, right,

1844
01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:27,160
Speaker 3: And they had that same sort of like they were

1845
01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:29,320
Speaker 3: defined not by who they were but who they weren't.

1846
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:32,599
Speaker 3: And I feel like we're flopped on that right now,

1847
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:35,720
Speaker 3: and a lot of the same issues, and I don't

1848
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:38,400
Speaker 3: know what lessons we learned from that era because ultimately

1849
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:42,559
Speaker 3: the radical Republicans didn't you know, we got we got

1850
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:46,240
Speaker 3: three solid amendments out of it, and one hundred years

1851
01:48:46,280 --> 01:48:48,200
Speaker 3: later we actually started enforcing those amendments.

1852
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and that's the I guess that's why I'm

1853
01:48:55,160 --> 01:48:57,879
Speaker 1: long term optimistic. I know we're going to make these changes.

1854
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:00,560
Speaker 1: I just wondered, do we have to do we have

1855
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:02,160
Speaker 1: to run into more roadblocks? Do we have to have

1856
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:04,479
Speaker 1: more people die? I go back to this, You know

1857
01:49:05,080 --> 01:49:09,160
Speaker 1: we didn't you know, we had to see you know,

1858
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:13,280
Speaker 1: child labor laws didn't pass overnight. We had to see

1859
01:49:13,680 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 1: kids getting you know, abused and die from from these

1860
01:49:19,000 --> 01:49:22,320
Speaker 1: terrible workplaces before we made the changes that were necessary

1861
01:49:22,600 --> 01:49:25,160
Speaker 1: because we were letting the industrialists were running a Monck right,

1862
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:28,080
Speaker 1: AIS kind of may end up running a moock. So

1863
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:32,680
Speaker 1: we'll get there. It just how much damage has to

1864
01:49:32,720 --> 01:49:35,880
Speaker 1: be done before we before we collectively decide to act, right?

1865
01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:36,519
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1866
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, to quote Churchill, Right, you can trust the Americans

1867
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:44,240
Speaker 1: to eventually do the right thing after they've exhausted every

1868
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:48,320
Speaker 1: other what is it, every other path that doesn't work?

1869
01:49:48,600 --> 01:49:50,240
Speaker 3: So I don't I don't want to throw this member

1870
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:52,559
Speaker 3: under the bus. But at one point we were voting

1871
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:54,559
Speaker 3: on one of these dumb gotcha votes.

1872
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1873
01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:56,479
Speaker 3: He came up to me on the floor. I saiday,

1874
01:49:56,479 --> 01:49:58,080
Speaker 3: you voted on this one. And I said, well, you know,

1875
01:49:58,160 --> 01:50:00,200
Speaker 3: Churchill said, you can always kunt of Americans do right

1876
01:50:00,200 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 3: thing after maybe exhausted all the other options. So if

1877
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:05,040
Speaker 3: you just always do the right thing, history will view

1878
01:50:05,040 --> 01:50:08,280
Speaker 3: you as being very precient. And I've voted one way,

1879
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:09,760
Speaker 3: and he sticks his card in the machine boats the

1880
01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:11,080
Speaker 3: other wain and says, yeah, I can't do that.

1881
01:50:15,400 --> 01:50:18,240
Speaker 1: Well, maybe his districts is slightly more purple than yours.

1882
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:23,519
Speaker 3: It isn't, but that's another story.

1883
01:50:24,240 --> 01:50:27,479
Speaker 1: Well, look, I didn't know where our conversation was going

1884
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:29,680
Speaker 1: to go. We went deep in the reform rabbit hole,

1885
01:50:29,720 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 1: which I I I will jump right in when that

1886
01:50:33,160 --> 01:50:38,120
Speaker 1: will take place. We uh, Look, you you are the

1887
01:50:38,160 --> 01:50:39,840
Speaker 1: type of member of Congress that I'm glad to know

1888
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:42,360
Speaker 1: is there. You're thinking about these things, You're thinking about

1889
01:50:42,360 --> 01:50:44,920
Speaker 1: the institution. You're thinking about what what are you going to?

1890
01:50:45,040 --> 01:50:46,880
Speaker 1: What's the institution going to look like when you leave?

1891
01:50:49,160 --> 01:50:52,120
Speaker 1: I hope there are more members like you.

1892
01:50:52,360 --> 01:50:56,120
Speaker 3: We'll look there. Congress is better than you think there

1893
01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:56,840
Speaker 3: are a lot line.

1894
01:50:57,000 --> 01:50:59,240
Speaker 1: Look, and I used to tell people this too. I'd say,

1895
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:04,000
Speaker 1: you know, ninety percent of the stuff that that Congress does,

1896
01:51:04,040 --> 01:51:07,519
Speaker 1: they you know they do without dug debate because we

1897
01:51:07,560 --> 01:51:10,320
Speaker 1: agree on ninety percent. Ten percent we disagree on, we

1898
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:11,520
Speaker 1: disagree on vehemently.

1899
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:13,040
Speaker 3: One of the things I like to point out to

1900
01:51:13,040 --> 01:51:16,040
Speaker 3: people is if you think through all the members of Congress,

1901
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:18,200
Speaker 3: come up with a list of the members that you

1902
01:51:18,200 --> 01:51:21,080
Speaker 3: think are bona fide knuckleheads, and just come up with

1903
01:51:21,080 --> 01:51:23,880
Speaker 3: your list and count them, divide that by five thirty five.

1904
01:51:24,160 --> 01:51:28,040
Speaker 3: That's the congressional knucklehead ratio. Then then go to your

1905
01:51:28,080 --> 01:51:31,040
Speaker 3: own office. Your own office probably has the same knucklehead ratio.

1906
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:33,679
Speaker 3: We are a representative body, and you know, and it's

1907
01:51:33,880 --> 01:51:36,559
Speaker 3: and you know, is it is it ten to fifteen percent? Maybe,

1908
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:37,960
Speaker 3: but it's it's not ninety percent.

1909
01:51:38,360 --> 01:51:40,000
Speaker 1: Is there a let me ask you this for I

1910
01:51:40,040 --> 01:51:42,720
Speaker 1: let you go. Is there a reform caucus that has

1911
01:51:42,760 --> 01:51:47,320
Speaker 1: developed that people where this stuff's being incubated, whether it's oh,

1912
01:51:47,320 --> 01:51:50,120
Speaker 1: should we uncap the House, should we do this constitutional amendment?

1913
01:51:50,160 --> 01:51:52,759
Speaker 1: Should we do this? Or is it just certain members

1914
01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:53,360
Speaker 1: doing it?

1915
01:51:53,479 --> 01:51:56,080
Speaker 3: Sort of it it's certain members and you and you.

1916
01:51:56,080 --> 01:51:57,920
Speaker 3: You raise the good question that maybe we should start

1917
01:51:57,920 --> 01:51:58,599
Speaker 3: a caucus, but.

1918
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:00,479
Speaker 1: I think i'd like to see that. Bet you you

1919
01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:03,360
Speaker 1: get a biparty, I bet you'd be quickly become a

1920
01:52:03,360 --> 01:52:07,040
Speaker 1: bipartisan caucus, you know, sort of how to remodel the democracy.

1921
01:52:07,479 --> 01:52:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, Derek Kilmer had his Modernization Caucus that was very

1922
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:15,519
Speaker 3: bipartisan last term. They tended to focus on some smaller

1923
01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:17,320
Speaker 3: boar issues, you know. And one of the things that

1924
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:19,840
Speaker 3: sort of makes it partisan that you wish it wasn't,

1925
01:52:20,280 --> 01:52:22,439
Speaker 3: And I've had conversation with my Republican colleagues, is that

1926
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:27,120
Speaker 3: the Republican Party today has a has a strategy that

1927
01:52:28,120 --> 01:52:31,720
Speaker 3: can win the control of the minoritarian institutions. The Democratic

1928
01:52:31,760 --> 01:52:34,320
Speaker 3: Party has a strategy that can win the minoritary institutions.

1929
01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:38,479
Speaker 3: So the democratic policy agenda is much better at winning

1930
01:52:38,520 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 3: the House than winning the state in the electoral college.

1931
01:52:41,080 --> 01:52:45,599
Speaker 3: And to really make democratic reforms is partisan because of that.

1932
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:47,559
Speaker 3: It shouldn't be, But it's just sort of the way

1933
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:48,519
Speaker 3: we're skewed right now.

1934
01:52:49,400 --> 01:52:56,120
Speaker 1: No, it's a that's a that's a I totally understand

1935
01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:59,760
Speaker 1: how that works out to be the case.

1936
01:52:59,800 --> 01:53:03,800
Speaker 3: But yeah, we appreciate you having me on you give

1937
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:04,080
Speaker 3: me more.

1938
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:07,120
Speaker 1: No, this was great. I want to you know, the

1939
01:53:07,160 --> 01:53:09,240
Speaker 1: next time, if you've got a new thing, you're to

1940
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:12,280
Speaker 1: do any if you get this caucus started, whatever it is,

1941
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:13,639
Speaker 1: I want to do this again.

1942
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:14,519
Speaker 3: Sounds great.

1943
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:30,280
Speaker 1: It's all right. It is time to travel into the

1944
01:53:30,320 --> 01:53:34,080
Speaker 1: time machine and guess what it is. If you're listening

1945
01:53:34,120 --> 01:53:38,679
Speaker 1: to this on March second, rather than having delayed listening

1946
01:53:38,680 --> 01:53:41,000
Speaker 1: to this podcast, shame on you if you couldn't get

1947
01:53:41,000 --> 01:53:45,160
Speaker 1: to it on March second. But today, March second is

1948
01:53:45,200 --> 01:53:50,479
Speaker 1: the anniversary of a very important revolution in American history,

1949
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:54,920
Speaker 1: March second, eighteen thirty six, Texas Revolution and the story

1950
01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:58,000
Speaker 1: it still tells. So we know Texans head to the

1951
01:53:58,040 --> 01:54:00,800
Speaker 1: polls or at least finish going to the holes on

1952
01:54:00,840 --> 01:54:04,000
Speaker 1: March third. And it makes this week in history especially

1953
01:54:04,080 --> 01:54:09,000
Speaker 1: resident because on March second, eighteen thirty six, delegates meeting

1954
01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:14,480
Speaker 1: at Washington on the Brazos adopted the Texas Declaration of Independence.

1955
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:19,559
Speaker 1: Texas formally declared independence from Mexico March second, eighteen thirty six.

1956
01:54:20,160 --> 01:54:23,600
Speaker 1: It's a foundational date in Texas political culture. But if

1957
01:54:23,600 --> 01:54:25,559
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about what that moment meant and

1958
01:54:25,600 --> 01:54:27,240
Speaker 1: what it still means, we have to tell the story

1959
01:54:27,280 --> 01:54:31,120
Speaker 1: in full, not just the Alamo, not just the Anglo settlers,

1960
01:54:31,160 --> 01:54:33,960
Speaker 1: and not just defiance, the entire thing. So let's start

1961
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:38,120
Speaker 1: with Washington on the Brazos. The declaration was signed at

1962
01:54:38,160 --> 01:54:41,240
Speaker 1: Washington on the Brazos. This was a small settlement alongside

1963
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:44,080
Speaker 1: the Brazos River in what is now east central Texas,

1964
01:54:44,520 --> 01:54:49,240
Speaker 1: near modern Brenham. Obviously named for George Washington. It was

1965
01:54:49,280 --> 01:54:53,680
Speaker 1: a modest frontier town Texas. Independence was not proclaimed in

1966
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:57,200
Speaker 1: a capital city. It was declared in a wooden settlement

1967
01:54:57,480 --> 01:55:01,080
Speaker 1: at the edge of competing sovereignties. The setting matters here

1968
01:55:01,080 --> 01:55:05,360
Speaker 1: a little bit. The colonization project that led to the

1969
01:55:05,400 --> 01:55:08,800
Speaker 1: revolution began with a gentleman by the name of Moses Austin,

1970
01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:14,560
Speaker 1: who secured Spanish permission in eighteen twenty to bring settlers

1971
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:20,960
Speaker 1: to the territory called Texas now. Moses died shortly thereafter

1972
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:26,640
Speaker 1: getting that permission, and his son, Stephen F. Austin renegotiated

1973
01:55:26,640 --> 01:55:29,800
Speaker 1: the agreement with Mexico after independence in eighteen twenty one,

1974
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:34,680
Speaker 1: and he became the central organizing and it became the

1975
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:40,320
Speaker 1: central impresario organizing Anglos settlement. So this was not an invasion.

1976
01:55:41,040 --> 01:55:47,800
Speaker 1: It was a government authorized settlement program Texas. From Mexico's perspective,

1977
01:55:47,840 --> 01:55:52,080
Speaker 1: it was practical stagecraft. They wanted to populate and stabilize

1978
01:55:52,480 --> 01:55:58,480
Speaker 1: essentially their northern frontier, and from the settler's perspective, independence

1979
01:55:58,520 --> 01:56:02,480
Speaker 1: was an opportunity. But Texas in eighteen thirty six was

1980
01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:07,400
Speaker 1: not just Anglo settlers versus Mexico. There was a substantial

1981
01:56:07,600 --> 01:56:12,880
Speaker 1: Mexican origin population called Tahanas already rooted in the region,

1982
01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:18,120
Speaker 1: essentially native to Texas. Some Teanos supported the revolution and

1983
01:56:18,240 --> 01:56:23,560
Speaker 1: fought alongside Anglo Texans. Lorenzo da Zavalla actually signed the

1984
01:56:23,600 --> 01:56:26,920
Speaker 1: Texas Declaration of Independence and he became the first vice

1985
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:31,280
Speaker 1: president of the Republic of Texas. Juan Segeen fought at

1986
01:56:31,320 --> 01:56:35,960
Speaker 1: San Jacinto, helped organized resistance, and later served as mayor

1987
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:41,320
Speaker 1: of San Antonio. In fact, Segeine eulogized the dead at

1988
01:56:41,320 --> 01:56:45,400
Speaker 1: the Alamo, and then after independence he was driven out

1989
01:56:45,400 --> 01:56:50,600
Speaker 1: of Texas by Anglo settlers who accused him of disloyalty.

1990
01:56:50,760 --> 01:56:53,640
Speaker 1: That arc tells you something. The revolution was not a

1991
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:58,480
Speaker 1: simple Anglo liberation story. It was multiethnic, layered in a

1992
01:56:58,520 --> 01:57:02,640
Speaker 1: bit uneven. In its aftermath, many Tehanos who supported independence

1993
01:57:02,760 --> 01:57:08,080
Speaker 1: later lost land, political influence, and security. And you can't

1994
01:57:08,120 --> 01:57:10,839
Speaker 1: omit the Tehanos from this story because then you flatten

1995
01:57:10,920 --> 01:57:17,520
Speaker 1: Texas history. Now, let's talk about slavery. Mexico abolished slavery

1996
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty nine, though Texas initially received exemptions and

1997
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:28,000
Speaker 1: workarounds allowed which allowed slavery to persist under indentured structures.

1998
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:32,560
Speaker 1: But there was tension that the Texas territory was allowed

1999
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:37,240
Speaker 1: to have slavery. So and it's notable that in the

2000
01:57:37,280 --> 01:57:42,760
Speaker 1: Texas Declaration of Independence, it explicitly cited Mexico's emancipation policies

2001
01:57:43,160 --> 01:57:48,200
Speaker 1: as a grievance. This is not an interpretation of the declaration.

2002
01:57:48,680 --> 01:57:53,160
Speaker 1: It was written into this founding document. Slavery was not incidental.

2003
01:57:53,560 --> 01:57:58,560
Speaker 1: It was central to the decision to declare independence from Mexico. Now,

2004
01:57:58,640 --> 01:58:01,480
Speaker 1: the story of the Alamo and how it became a symbol.

2005
01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:04,280
Speaker 1: The Siege of the Alamo began February twenty third, eighteen

2006
01:58:04,320 --> 01:58:08,520
Speaker 1: thirty six. The Mexican forces had generally estimated at the

2007
01:58:08,520 --> 01:58:11,880
Speaker 1: time between fifteen hundred and two thousand soldiers. There were

2008
01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:15,040
Speaker 1: fewer than two hundred defenders that held this mission and

2009
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:19,959
Speaker 1: Among them were two nationally known famous people, Davy Crockett

2010
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:24,560
Speaker 1: and Jim Bwett, and their presence at this fight helped

2011
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:27,920
Speaker 1: nationalize the story, which in turn would help create the

2012
01:58:27,960 --> 01:58:33,880
Speaker 1: myth the Alamo was a military defeat. Traditionally, historians argue

2013
01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:37,880
Speaker 1: it delayed the Mexican forces and gave Sam Houston, who

2014
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:41,600
Speaker 1: was in charge of the of the Texas forces, time

2015
01:58:41,640 --> 01:58:45,400
Speaker 1: to regroup. Now, there is a debate about whether that

2016
01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:48,600
Speaker 1: was a strategic delay or just sort of happenstance, But

2017
01:58:48,720 --> 01:58:53,080
Speaker 1: what is undeniable is the symbolic impact. Remember, the Alamo

2018
01:58:53,240 --> 01:58:56,880
Speaker 1: was important as a rallying cry, and it did help

2019
01:58:57,480 --> 01:59:03,000
Speaker 1: rally troops. And yet there was an even larger massacre

2020
01:59:03,120 --> 01:59:05,920
Speaker 1: that took place at Goliad, where roughly three hundred and

2021
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:12,760
Speaker 1: forty Texas prisoners were executed after surrendering. In fact, remember

2022
01:59:12,760 --> 01:59:15,480
Speaker 1: the Alamo, and remember Goliad was all part of the

2023
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:20,480
Speaker 1: original cry. But Goliad faded in the mythology. Alamo endured.

2024
01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:23,480
Speaker 1: And you have to ask yourself, why, Oh, Davy Crockett

2025
01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:28,240
Speaker 1: is really why? Right identity chooses the cleaner narrative, A

2026
01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:32,480
Speaker 1: heroic last stand with Davy Crockett travels better than the

2027
01:59:32,480 --> 01:59:36,600
Speaker 1: grim reality of a mass execution of already captured soldiers.

2028
01:59:37,880 --> 01:59:42,080
Speaker 1: The selection of symbols is always itself part of political storytelling.

2029
01:59:44,640 --> 01:59:46,920
Speaker 1: Then there's Sam Houston, who was, of course in charge

2030
01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:50,320
Speaker 1: of the troops during the independence after the Alamo and Goliad.

2031
01:59:50,320 --> 01:59:54,120
Speaker 1: Sam Houston did retreaties, he trained forces, he resisted calls

2032
01:59:54,160 --> 01:59:58,520
Speaker 1: for premature battle, and ultimately defeated the Mexican forces at

2033
01:59:58,560 --> 02:00:04,120
Speaker 1: San Jacindo. But Houston's story is a bit complicated, and

2034
02:00:04,160 --> 02:00:07,840
Speaker 1: it complicates Texas identity further because it's worth noting that

2035
02:00:07,880 --> 02:00:10,800
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty one, when Texas voted to secede from

2036
02:00:10,840 --> 02:00:15,240
Speaker 1: the Union, Houston, then the governor of Texas, refused to

2037
02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:19,440
Speaker 1: swear loyalty to the Confederacy. He was removed from office.

2038
02:00:20,240 --> 02:00:24,560
Speaker 1: The man who led Texas independence from Mexico refused texas

2039
02:00:24,600 --> 02:00:28,120
Speaker 1: secession from the United States. It's just a reminder that

2040
02:00:28,160 --> 02:00:35,320
Speaker 1: Texas has always contained internal argument. So Texas was an

2041
02:00:35,320 --> 02:00:38,400
Speaker 1: independent republic from eighteen thirty six to eighteen forty five.

2042
02:00:39,120 --> 02:00:43,680
Speaker 1: Anneccessation into the United States was controversial, especially because Texas

2043
02:00:43,720 --> 02:00:48,080
Speaker 1: was a slaveholding republic. President John Tyler signed the annexation

2044
02:00:48,240 --> 02:00:51,680
Speaker 1: resolution on March first eighteen forty five, just before he

2045
02:00:51,720 --> 02:00:56,600
Speaker 1: was leaving office, President James Polk followed through annexation, though

2046
02:00:56,600 --> 02:01:00,720
Speaker 1: did set the table for the war with Mexico. But

2047
02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:04,280
Speaker 1: here's the fuller picture. Mexico claimed the border at the

2048
02:01:04,480 --> 02:01:09,000
Speaker 1: Neusis River, which runs through what is now South Texas

2049
02:01:09,040 --> 02:01:13,120
Speaker 1: near Corpus Christi. Texas and the United States claimed the

2050
02:01:13,200 --> 02:01:16,560
Speaker 1: Rio Grande as the border roughly one hundred and fifty

2051
02:01:16,600 --> 02:01:20,520
Speaker 1: miles farther south. Well. The disputed land one hundred and

2052
02:01:20,560 --> 02:01:25,160
Speaker 1: fifty miles between those rivers became the flashpoint for war.

2053
02:01:26,240 --> 02:01:29,920
Speaker 1: So when US troops entered the contested zone, skirmishes broke out.

2054
02:01:30,200 --> 02:01:33,840
Speaker 1: War followed. But it's also true that President Polk was

2055
02:01:33,920 --> 02:01:36,800
Speaker 1: expansionist and he prepared to use the conflict to secure

2056
02:01:36,880 --> 02:01:42,640
Speaker 1: territorial goals. Let's just say the disputed border was pretext.

2057
02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:46,360
Speaker 1: It provided the immediate trigger, and then, of course the

2058
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:50,000
Speaker 1: expansionist ambition provided the context. Both things can be true

2059
02:01:50,040 --> 02:01:54,640
Speaker 1: at the same time. It's worth noting that Texas actually

2060
02:01:54,720 --> 02:01:59,360
Speaker 1: entered the Union Differently, Texas retained control over its own

2061
02:01:59,360 --> 02:02:01,800
Speaker 1: public land, they didn't hand that over to the federal government,

2062
02:02:02,320 --> 02:02:07,080
Speaker 1: and the annexation resolution included language allowing Texas, with its

2063
02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:11,160
Speaker 1: own consent and Congress's consent, to divide itself into as

2064
02:02:11,200 --> 02:02:15,480
Speaker 1: many as five states. That still exists, by the way,

2065
02:02:15,480 --> 02:02:20,320
Speaker 1: that's still on the books. Now Texas can't unilaterally subdivide itself,

2066
02:02:21,640 --> 02:02:23,720
Speaker 1: but it's already there. They just have to go to

2067
02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:27,760
Speaker 1: Congress to agree to. But the provision reinforced a sense

2068
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:31,760
Speaker 1: of negotiated entry, and it wasn't a simple absorption. Right.

2069
02:02:32,760 --> 02:02:36,280
Speaker 1: Add nine years of independent nationhood, and now you understand

2070
02:02:36,320 --> 02:02:40,480
Speaker 1: the durable identity that is rooted in sovereigoranty that gives

2071
02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:45,000
Speaker 1: Texas this lone star identity. Right, It is different than

2072
02:02:45,080 --> 02:02:49,440
Speaker 1: every other state in that respect. So March second, eighteen

2073
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:52,120
Speaker 1: thirty six was not just a declaration of independence. It

2074
02:02:52,160 --> 02:02:55,600
Speaker 1: was the beginning of a layered identity, multi ethnic and contested,

2075
02:02:55,960 --> 02:03:00,800
Speaker 1: entangled with slavery mythologized through the Alamo, complicated by goaliead

2076
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:05,200
Speaker 1: reinforced by annexation, challenged again when their own governor refused

2077
02:03:05,240 --> 02:03:08,760
Speaker 1: to pledge loyalty the Confederacy in eighteen sixty one. And

2078
02:03:08,840 --> 02:03:12,320
Speaker 1: it's all still being debated today. How I frame this

2079
02:03:12,360 --> 02:03:17,600
Speaker 1: conversation in this podcast. Time Machine will have partisans on

2080
02:03:17,640 --> 02:03:20,800
Speaker 1: both sides of the argument in Texas disputing certain things.

2081
02:03:20,840 --> 02:03:25,680
Speaker 1: I said, So, look, Texas doesn't just have an origin story,

2082
02:03:25,760 --> 02:03:29,160
Speaker 1: it has an argument with its own past, and that

2083
02:03:29,280 --> 02:03:34,840
Speaker 1: argument still shapes how Texans see power, sovereignty, and union. Right,

2084
02:03:34,840 --> 02:03:38,000
Speaker 1: they have their own power grid. They're off the grid

2085
02:03:38,200 --> 02:03:43,960
Speaker 1: compared to everybody else. Right, everything is bigger in Texas,

2086
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:46,880
Speaker 1: but everything is also different, and there's a reason for it.

2087
02:03:46,880 --> 02:03:50,240
Speaker 1: It's part of their origin story. So there you go.

2088
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:51,680
Speaker 1: There's my history.

2089
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:52,160
Speaker 3: Lesson for the week.

2090
02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:06,600
Speaker 1: All right. The first question for the day comes from

2091
02:04:06,680 --> 02:04:09,560
Speaker 1: Jay in New York. Jay with an initial not JY,

2092
02:04:09,600 --> 02:04:12,280
Speaker 1: and he writes, I'm seeing a lot of comparisons between

2093
02:04:12,320 --> 02:04:14,800
Speaker 1: Iraq and Iran, but one major difference is that after

2094
02:04:14,840 --> 02:04:16,680
Speaker 1: nine to eleven, there was an eighteen month campaign to

2095
02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:20,120
Speaker 1: convince Americans that regime change in Iraq was necessary. That

2096
02:04:20,320 --> 02:04:23,560
Speaker 1: checked true. Despite the fear mongering and dishonesty of that campaign,

2097
02:04:23,600 --> 02:04:26,440
Speaker 1: the Bush administration made a strategic pr decision, and I

2098
02:04:26,480 --> 02:04:29,040
Speaker 1: believe it bought them time with the American people long

2099
02:04:29,080 --> 02:04:31,920
Speaker 1: after Iraq turned into a quagmire. What is the political

2100
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:34,480
Speaker 1: risk for Trump in doing none of the same prep work,

2101
02:04:34,560 --> 02:04:36,920
Speaker 1: or are we simply in a different era where that

2102
02:04:37,000 --> 02:04:39,480
Speaker 1: kind of thing no longer matters. No, Look, I mean

2103
02:04:39,520 --> 02:04:42,920
Speaker 1: this is to me among the open questions. I think

2104
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:48,280
Speaker 1: it here's a tangible way, and it's just in hardcore politics.

2105
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:51,840
Speaker 1: I think he did have a there's a coalition of

2106
02:04:51,960 --> 02:04:54,480
Speaker 1: Trump's right. You know, just because you voted for Trump

2107
02:04:54,520 --> 02:04:57,240
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're a member of MAGA. Right, there is

2108
02:04:57,280 --> 02:05:03,120
Speaker 1: a deep MAGA group. Look, the fact is Trump got

2109
02:05:03,160 --> 02:05:07,040
Speaker 1: controlled the Republican Party by making common cause with the

2110
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:11,360
Speaker 1: isolationist wing. I don't think he ever was a true isolationist.

2111
02:05:11,400 --> 02:05:14,320
Speaker 1: He was always you know, the the I think he

2112
02:05:14,400 --> 02:05:20,160
Speaker 1: was attracted more to the nationalism translation xenophobia. That is

2113
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:22,520
Speaker 1: where why he made such common cause. I think he

2114
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:29,000
Speaker 1: was less engaged in the in the isolation and isolationist

2115
02:05:29,080 --> 02:05:32,560
Speaker 1: aspect of things. Though he does like the binary way

2116
02:05:32,600 --> 02:05:35,560
Speaker 1: of having relationships with other countries, and it's the it's

2117
02:05:35,640 --> 02:05:39,800
Speaker 1: using tariffs and having bilateral trade deals. Right, He's really

2118
02:05:39,800 --> 02:05:45,160
Speaker 1: a unilateralist in that sense. But you know, you're you're

2119
02:05:45,360 --> 02:05:48,320
Speaker 1: embedded in your question is what I think the risk

2120
02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:52,200
Speaker 1: is just for this November, he's already got to turn

2121
02:05:52,240 --> 02:05:54,440
Speaker 1: out problem among his base, right, they're already kind of

2122
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:58,800
Speaker 1: demoralized by the lies about Epstein. They're demoralized by the

2123
02:05:58,800 --> 02:06:01,600
Speaker 1: fact that these tariffs have rayed prices, not lowered them.

2124
02:06:01,880 --> 02:06:05,680
Speaker 1: They're demoralized by the electric prices with his AI buddies

2125
02:06:05,680 --> 02:06:09,080
Speaker 1: that he's gotten with. And if you really were concerned

2126
02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:14,880
Speaker 1: about Democrats like Hunter Biden using his father to make

2127
02:06:14,960 --> 02:06:17,840
Speaker 1: money off of politics, then you're probably really grossed out

2128
02:06:17,920 --> 02:06:21,440
Speaker 1: by what the Trump family is doing. And now let's

2129
02:06:21,480 --> 02:06:24,320
Speaker 1: say you're a Marjorie Taylor Green or you were an

2130
02:06:24,360 --> 02:06:27,959
Speaker 1: ally of Telsea Gabbard who was drawn to them because

2131
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:33,000
Speaker 1: of the no more wars, you know, no more military interventions.

2132
02:06:33,600 --> 02:06:34,840
Speaker 1: How motivator are you going to be to go to

2133
02:06:34,880 --> 02:06:39,480
Speaker 1: the polls? So I think you. I think this is

2134
02:06:39,480 --> 02:06:43,560
Speaker 1: the political risk that he is now so consumed with

2135
02:06:43,600 --> 02:06:46,520
Speaker 1: his own legacy. I'm the one that saved Iran, I'm

2136
02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:49,440
Speaker 1: the one that saved Venezuela. I'm the one that saved Cuba.

2137
02:06:51,360 --> 02:06:54,040
Speaker 1: That he is forgetting about why he was elected and

2138
02:06:54,080 --> 02:06:58,400
Speaker 1: what he campaigned on. I think that stuff matters, and

2139
02:06:58,440 --> 02:07:01,520
Speaker 1: I think voters votevoters again, I go back to what

2140
02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:08,440
Speaker 1: his voters do. Not reward presidents for incredible foreign policy decisions.

2141
02:07:09,120 --> 02:07:13,400
Speaker 1: Maybe over time they will, but never in the moment again.

2142
02:07:13,960 --> 02:07:17,000
Speaker 1: Just gott to see anybody involved with George HW Bush's

2143
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:22,520
Speaker 1: campaign in nineteen ninety two. Jake from California rights Hey,

2144
02:07:22,520 --> 02:07:25,880
Speaker 1: longtime listener, reader and viewer hotline days. All right, old

2145
02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:28,960
Speaker 1: old school, I love it. Tough loss for your canes, yes,

2146
02:07:29,000 --> 02:07:30,880
Speaker 1: but hey, as Washington Husky, at least we'll always have

2147
02:07:30,960 --> 02:07:36,240
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one. Yeah, okay, I would love the battle

2148
02:07:36,240 --> 02:07:39,040
Speaker 1: of two undefeateds that never happened. In nineteen ninety one

2149
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:42,560
Speaker 1: we had a split national title basically East coast West coast,

2150
02:07:42,600 --> 02:07:47,040
Speaker 1: right anyway, But I digress. He says this in your

2151
02:07:47,080 --> 02:07:49,840
Speaker 1: emergency pot about the US Israel launching what feels more

2152
02:07:49,880 --> 02:07:52,400
Speaker 1: like a preventive war. You rightly noted that Trump may

2153
02:07:52,440 --> 02:07:54,120
Speaker 1: back off if things get messy. So why is the

2154
02:07:54,160 --> 02:07:56,960
Speaker 1: media so quick to echo the administration's framing? Seem little

2155
02:07:56,960 --> 02:08:00,520
Speaker 1: pushback or demand for evidence, even on claims like Commane

2156
02:08:00,520 --> 02:08:03,200
Speaker 1: being killed. Thanks for pushing for a more independent, fact

2157
02:08:03,200 --> 02:08:05,960
Speaker 1: based approach to news. Haven't missed podcast yet. I think, look,

2158
02:08:06,040 --> 02:08:10,040
Speaker 1: this is this is one of the look we have

2159
02:08:10,120 --> 02:08:12,960
Speaker 1: No there's no press score in the Pentagon, right, There's

2160
02:08:13,000 --> 02:08:17,520
Speaker 1: just the the the propagandists that have agreed to to

2161
02:08:17,640 --> 02:08:20,760
Speaker 1: the to the to the rules of the Pentagon, which

2162
02:08:20,840 --> 02:08:24,200
Speaker 1: indicate that you're not allowed to report news anything that

2163
02:08:24,280 --> 02:08:27,800
Speaker 1: is that is not pre approved by the by the Pentagon.

2164
02:08:27,840 --> 02:08:32,080
Speaker 1: I'm being slightly facetious, but not too much. So you

2165
02:08:32,160 --> 02:08:34,600
Speaker 1: have that issue that was not an issue during Iraq,

2166
02:08:34,640 --> 02:08:37,600
Speaker 1: where whatever you want to think of the decision by

2167
02:08:37,640 --> 02:08:42,160
Speaker 1: the Bush Chainey administration, they were constantly trying to keep

2168
02:08:42,840 --> 02:08:46,040
Speaker 1: the press as informed as possible. Certainly they were massaging

2169
02:08:46,040 --> 02:08:52,080
Speaker 1: the facts, but they weren't in not at all compared

2170
02:08:52,080 --> 02:08:54,840
Speaker 1: to the Trump administration. Everybody's forthcoming these days, right, And

2171
02:08:55,040 --> 02:08:57,880
Speaker 1: you know, I before Trump, I'd say every presidential administration

2172
02:08:57,960 --> 02:09:00,800
Speaker 1: you have to drag facts out of. You can't drag

2173
02:09:00,840 --> 02:09:03,480
Speaker 1: facts out of this administration because they don't. They lie

2174
02:09:03,520 --> 02:09:05,200
Speaker 1: so much at times, you don't even they don't even

2175
02:09:05,200 --> 02:09:09,680
Speaker 1: know what the facts are on this front. And I do.

2176
02:09:10,080 --> 02:09:13,640
Speaker 1: Look you, you imply correctly. You know, I think the

2177
02:09:13,640 --> 02:09:17,400
Speaker 1: biggest thing that Iranians who want freedom should fear is

2178
02:09:17,400 --> 02:09:19,080
Speaker 1: that Trump's going to walk away. You know, He's going

2179
02:09:19,160 --> 02:09:21,280
Speaker 1: to make a massive walk away. You know, I have this,

2180
02:09:22,240 --> 02:09:27,400
Speaker 1: I have this slightly dystopian fear that come January twenty,

2181
02:09:27,560 --> 02:09:34,080
Speaker 1: twenty twenty nine, all Donald Trump's legacy will be is destruction. Right,

2182
02:09:34,440 --> 02:09:37,040
Speaker 1: whether you're in Washington, d c. And like half the

2183
02:09:37,040 --> 02:09:41,400
Speaker 1: White House is still in rubble, You're and Kennedy Center

2184
02:09:41,480 --> 02:09:46,120
Speaker 1: is gutted, right, and you'll have Venezuela still not a

2185
02:09:46,120 --> 02:09:50,000
Speaker 1: democracy or rebuilt. You'll have Cuba in some sort of

2186
02:09:50,120 --> 02:09:54,600
Speaker 1: half being rebuilt, half not the rubble of Tehran that

2187
02:09:54,960 --> 02:09:58,040
Speaker 1: will have had a lot to do with. But he'll

2188
02:09:58,040 --> 02:10:00,840
Speaker 1: want to walk away from that that it really is

2189
02:10:00,960 --> 02:10:04,520
Speaker 1: just sort of you know that he leaves the country

2190
02:10:04,880 --> 02:10:08,400
Speaker 1: with just a mess everywhere, actual mess at the White

2191
02:10:08,440 --> 02:10:14,840
Speaker 1: House itself, rubble, the Constitution kind of metaphorically crumbled. I mean,

2192
02:10:15,560 --> 02:10:19,240
Speaker 1: it's not, as you know, my fear is less him

2193
02:10:19,480 --> 02:10:22,720
Speaker 1: trying to get a third term than more just leaving

2194
02:10:23,400 --> 02:10:30,120
Speaker 1: such a giant pile of rubble, both literally and figuratively

2195
02:10:30,760 --> 02:10:39,760
Speaker 1: all over the presidency. And you know, that's honestly, I

2196
02:10:39,800 --> 02:10:44,920
Speaker 1: think it's the most likely scenario at this point going

2197
02:10:44,960 --> 02:10:46,400
Speaker 1: into twenty twenty nine.

2198
02:10:46,520 --> 02:10:46,720
Speaker 2: It is.

2199
02:10:47,440 --> 02:10:49,040
Speaker 1: You know, if you were to ask me, you know,

2200
02:10:49,080 --> 02:10:51,280
Speaker 1: there's four or five paths to get to twenty twenty

2201
02:10:51,320 --> 02:10:53,280
Speaker 1: nine that we'll get to. That's the one that I

2202
02:10:53,280 --> 02:10:55,320
Speaker 1: think is the most likely that we're in some sort

2203
02:10:55,360 --> 02:11:00,520
Speaker 1: of that It's not just a presidency unfit, it's a

2204
02:11:00,520 --> 02:11:06,080
Speaker 1: presidency that's been based on destruction and whether physical destruction

2205
02:11:06,120 --> 02:11:08,480
Speaker 1: of buildings. Right. He claims he's a builder, but right

2206
02:11:08,520 --> 02:11:10,840
Speaker 1: now he seems to knock stuff down a hell of

2207
02:11:10,880 --> 02:11:14,960
Speaker 1: a lot better than he does building anything these days.

2208
02:11:16,120 --> 02:11:19,960
Speaker 1: So I do think you'll see some pushback, but you know,

2209
02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:21,920
Speaker 1: this is what happens when you clear the press out

2210
02:11:21,920 --> 02:11:24,960
Speaker 1: of the Pentagon. So we're going to have very little.

2211
02:11:25,080 --> 02:11:27,600
Speaker 1: You know, we'll probably get more out of israel I

2212
02:11:27,680 --> 02:11:30,880
Speaker 1: know as a reporter, Israeli sources in some cases are

2213
02:11:30,960 --> 02:11:32,560
Speaker 1: going to be more trustworthy and at least on some

2214
02:11:32,560 --> 02:11:34,920
Speaker 1: of the military aspects and some of the truth about

2215
02:11:34,920 --> 02:11:36,400
Speaker 1: Iran than what we're going to get out of the

2216
02:11:36,400 --> 02:11:40,000
Speaker 1: Trump administration. Because the Trump administration, even those that want

2217
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:44,240
Speaker 1: to be truthful to the press fear getting in trouble

2218
02:11:44,280 --> 02:11:46,360
Speaker 1: for being truthful to the press. So it really has

2219
02:11:46,520 --> 02:11:54,520
Speaker 1: created a very questionable atmosphere forgetting the truth particularly. I mean,

2220
02:11:54,720 --> 02:11:57,240
Speaker 1: you know, the truth is usually the first victim, right

2221
02:11:58,000 --> 02:12:03,800
Speaker 1: in war, It's been the first victim of the Trump era,

2222
02:12:04,240 --> 02:12:07,840
Speaker 1: that's for sure, all right. Next question comes from Mark

2223
02:12:07,960 --> 02:12:09,720
Speaker 1: and he writes, Hey, can you speak to the scope

2224
02:12:09,760 --> 02:12:11,920
Speaker 1: of President Obama's nuclear deal with Iran? There's been a

2225
02:12:11,920 --> 02:12:13,800
Speaker 1: lot of talking about Trump tearing it up, his failure

2226
02:12:13,880 --> 02:12:16,520
Speaker 1: or unwillingness to secure a deal, and obviously now bombing Iran.

2227
02:12:16,680 --> 02:12:18,360
Speaker 1: How strong was the deal that Obama got and how

2228
02:12:18,360 --> 02:12:20,040
Speaker 1: big a mistake was it for Trump to tear it up.

2229
02:12:20,160 --> 02:12:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure there is nuanced here. Thanks well, Mark, First

2230
02:12:23,880 --> 02:12:25,840
Speaker 1: thing you need to know is the only person that

2231
02:12:25,960 --> 02:12:27,920
Speaker 1: was advocating for tearing up the nuclear deal in the

2232
02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:31,760
Speaker 1: Trump's first administration was Donald Trump. Mike Pompeo. As much

2233
02:12:31,800 --> 02:12:34,040
Speaker 1: as that he was not in favor, there were a

2234
02:12:34,040 --> 02:12:37,200
Speaker 1: whole bunch of people in Trump's orbit that were never

2235
02:12:37,320 --> 02:12:40,440
Speaker 1: in favor of doing the agreement in the first place. Well,

2236
02:12:40,440 --> 02:12:43,960
Speaker 1: once the agreement was in, a whole bunch of folks,

2237
02:12:43,960 --> 02:12:50,400
Speaker 1: including Mike Pompeo, were you know, and Jim Mattis and

2238
02:12:50,800 --> 02:12:54,840
Speaker 1: many in positions of influence and power at the time

2239
02:12:54,880 --> 02:12:59,120
Speaker 1: at State, CIA, and Defense were like, don't get out

2240
02:12:59,160 --> 02:13:03,000
Speaker 1: of it, because you it gives it was giving us

2241
02:13:03,040 --> 02:13:08,880
Speaker 1: some insight on their technology we had more information about

2242
02:13:08,880 --> 02:13:13,640
Speaker 1: what they were up to. It gave some stability to

2243
02:13:13,720 --> 02:13:18,480
Speaker 1: the region. Now, the downside of that deal was releasing

2244
02:13:18,920 --> 02:13:20,960
Speaker 1: a set of funds that ended up being used for

2245
02:13:21,000 --> 02:13:25,240
Speaker 1: a lot of Iran's proxy terrorist contractors. And I think

2246
02:13:25,320 --> 02:13:28,960
Speaker 1: that's the fairest critique is that it gave the Iranians

2247
02:13:28,960 --> 02:13:30,680
Speaker 1: a bit too much on that front, or that we

2248
02:13:30,760 --> 02:13:35,000
Speaker 1: didn't you know, there should have if there should have

2249
02:13:35,000 --> 02:13:38,480
Speaker 1: been a bit more guardrails on how the money. And

2250
02:13:38,560 --> 02:13:40,960
Speaker 1: you remember Trump talking about the palettes of cash and

2251
02:13:41,000 --> 02:13:43,240
Speaker 1: all of that stuff, frozen assets that belonged to the

2252
02:13:43,240 --> 02:13:48,600
Speaker 1: Iranians that were frozen when the theocracy revolution took place

2253
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:57,120
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine. So look, I think the debate,

2254
02:13:57,320 --> 02:13:59,720
Speaker 1: I think we're going to debate the Iran deal for

2255
02:13:59,840 --> 02:14:03,640
Speaker 1: a long time. And this is a case where I

2256
02:14:03,640 --> 02:14:05,720
Speaker 1: don't want it to get lost. And an ends justifies

2257
02:14:05,800 --> 02:14:09,560
Speaker 1: the means scenario here where Okay, if Iran isn't a

2258
02:14:09,680 --> 02:14:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, if Iran is able to become a fledgling democracy,

2259
02:14:13,520 --> 02:14:17,480
Speaker 1: say by twenty thirty five, maybe by twenty thirty right,

2260
02:14:18,320 --> 02:14:22,160
Speaker 1: and it's starting to be a flourishing country, well we

2261
02:14:22,240 --> 02:14:25,080
Speaker 1: say the nuclear dea was a bad idea or not,

2262
02:14:28,160 --> 02:14:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, should we have pursued it earlier? Now one

2263
02:14:30,720 --> 02:14:35,160
Speaker 1: could argue, you know, look around, more of a paper

2264
02:14:35,160 --> 02:14:38,800
Speaker 1: tiger than I think anybody feared. But how much of

2265
02:14:38,880 --> 02:14:43,280
Speaker 1: that you know, you didn't fully know they were a

2266
02:14:43,320 --> 02:14:45,480
Speaker 1: paper tiger and took you until you took away their

2267
02:14:46,440 --> 02:14:54,360
Speaker 1: their proxy warriors in Hesblahamas, and so you know, I

2268
02:14:54,400 --> 02:14:58,840
Speaker 1: think I think there'll be a real debate, and I

2269
02:14:58,840 --> 02:15:01,880
Speaker 1: think there was a you know, we didn't know. There

2270
02:15:01,920 --> 02:15:06,080
Speaker 1: was always some hope maybe. And that's the thing, right,

2271
02:15:06,160 --> 02:15:08,960
Speaker 1: if you want to lead a rules based order and

2272
02:15:09,000 --> 02:15:11,480
Speaker 1: you want something to be durable, and you want credibility

2273
02:15:11,560 --> 02:15:15,200
Speaker 1: once it gets once they violate the terms, then you

2274
02:15:15,240 --> 02:15:19,400
Speaker 1: can argue having a durable deal. That wasn't just the

2275
02:15:19,480 --> 02:15:22,880
Speaker 1: United States that cut this deal. Remember it was it

2276
02:15:22,920 --> 02:15:28,200
Speaker 1: was Russia, right, they were involved. It was China. It

2277
02:15:28,320 --> 02:15:31,360
Speaker 1: was so called the P five plus one, So it

2278
02:15:31,400 --> 02:15:37,400
Speaker 1: was it was. It was. It had the potential to

2279
02:15:37,440 --> 02:15:43,080
Speaker 1: be durable, but it was giving Iran an opportunity to

2280
02:15:43,120 --> 02:15:47,360
Speaker 1: become a to prove that its sovereignty should be respected

2281
02:15:48,400 --> 02:15:52,800
Speaker 1: and that you know that they were not the evil

2282
02:15:53,160 --> 02:15:56,640
Speaker 1: incarnate that many of us thought that regime actually was,

2283
02:15:56,720 --> 02:16:00,560
Speaker 1: and it's turned out to be on that front. So

2284
02:16:06,840 --> 02:16:08,520
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be hard to judge whether

2285
02:16:08,600 --> 02:16:11,760
Speaker 1: tearing up the deal is going to be viewed as

2286
02:16:11,800 --> 02:16:16,040
Speaker 1: a catastrophic mistake because it did lead it, it accelerated

2287
02:16:16,160 --> 02:16:21,400
Speaker 1: this moment. Right, If this moment leads to a better Iran,

2288
02:16:22,400 --> 02:16:24,440
Speaker 1: then I think you know where the debate's going to settle.

2289
02:16:25,040 --> 02:16:27,760
Speaker 1: If this moment leads to a vacuum that looks more

2290
02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:32,120
Speaker 1: like a rock over the next twenty years, I think

2291
02:16:32,160 --> 02:16:35,840
Speaker 1: that that debate about getting out of of the deal

2292
02:16:35,879 --> 02:16:39,240
Speaker 1: will be will be still a pretty highly relevant debate.

2293
02:16:42,000 --> 02:16:44,920
Speaker 1: Michael T from Chicago, Right, Hey, I enjoyed your thoughts

2294
02:16:44,959 --> 02:16:47,120
Speaker 1: on who exactly should be considered a founding father, but

2295
02:16:47,120 --> 02:16:50,279
Speaker 1: I couldn't help but notice you completely ignored the Articles

2296
02:16:50,280 --> 02:16:52,880
Speaker 1: of Confederation. I don't mean to ignore it, but yes

2297
02:16:52,920 --> 02:16:55,800
Speaker 1: I did. While that constitution didn't last terribly long, it

2298
02:16:55,840 --> 02:16:58,080
Speaker 1: was still the governing document of our nation, and everyone

2299
02:16:58,160 --> 02:17:00,360
Speaker 1: seems to forget it existed. What say you should we

2300
02:17:00,400 --> 02:17:02,640
Speaker 1: work harder not to forget its accomplishments as well as

2301
02:17:02,640 --> 02:17:07,200
Speaker 1: its failures. Look, it's a fair critique that I haven't

2302
02:17:07,560 --> 02:17:12,200
Speaker 1: delved into it. And I think it's a reminder it

2303
02:17:12,320 --> 02:17:15,560
Speaker 1: is why you know, I think I've shared with you before.

2304
02:17:15,959 --> 02:17:19,120
Speaker 1: One of my favorite founding father scholars is her name's

2305
02:17:21,080 --> 02:17:26,359
Speaker 1: Lindsay Schravinsky over at she runs the George Washington Library

2306
02:17:27,080 --> 02:17:31,400
Speaker 1: at Mount Vernon here in Virginia. And when I've always

2307
02:17:31,400 --> 02:17:33,920
Speaker 1: asked her this question, you know, how the founders, you know,

2308
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:36,320
Speaker 1: what would what would they say today, you know, coming

2309
02:17:36,360 --> 02:17:38,360
Speaker 1: back in the constitution? What would surprise them? And one

2310
02:17:38,360 --> 02:17:39,840
Speaker 1: of the first things she says is, well, it was

2311
02:17:40,120 --> 02:17:43,680
Speaker 1: surprised them that this constitution is still is still intact.

2312
02:17:43,800 --> 02:17:43,959
Speaker 3: Right.

2313
02:17:44,000 --> 02:17:47,800
Speaker 1: That the lesson that the lesson they took away from

2314
02:17:47,879 --> 02:17:51,320
Speaker 1: the failure of the Articles of Confederation was that, you know, hey,

2315
02:17:51,360 --> 02:17:53,920
Speaker 1: if this constitution can last twenty five years, that's a

2316
02:17:53,959 --> 02:17:58,160
Speaker 1: success that there was, you know. And by the way,

2317
02:17:58,240 --> 02:18:01,760
Speaker 1: other countries have re written their constitutions, have had different

2318
02:18:01,800 --> 02:18:04,280
Speaker 1: constitutions over the years. The fact that we've had the

2319
02:18:04,320 --> 02:18:06,199
Speaker 1: same one for as long as we have is actually

2320
02:18:06,240 --> 02:18:10,560
Speaker 1: quite impressive. But no, I think, look, there's still lessons

2321
02:18:10,560 --> 02:18:13,120
Speaker 1: from the Articles and Confederation. Right, this goes to how

2322
02:18:13,160 --> 02:18:15,119
Speaker 1: strong of a republic did we want to be? Right,

2323
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:17,640
Speaker 1: how strong of a federal government? Of a centralized government

2324
02:18:17,879 --> 02:18:21,400
Speaker 1: that we want to be and I think the importance

2325
02:18:21,720 --> 02:18:24,480
Speaker 1: of and you're right, why you know why we can't

2326
02:18:24,520 --> 02:18:28,200
Speaker 1: forget on the Articles of Confederation. The importance of its

2327
02:18:28,240 --> 02:18:30,640
Speaker 1: existence in our history is that it's a reminder that

2328
02:18:30,680 --> 02:18:34,199
Speaker 1: we've always had this tension between rights of the states

2329
02:18:34,200 --> 02:18:36,520
Speaker 1: and rights of the central government. How centralized of a

2330
02:18:36,600 --> 02:18:40,240
Speaker 1: government do we want? Our founders always feared too strong

2331
02:18:40,280 --> 02:18:43,520
Speaker 1: of a central government. And that's why when you've fast

2332
02:18:43,560 --> 02:18:45,760
Speaker 1: forward and you realize what the hell are we doing

2333
02:18:45,800 --> 02:18:48,920
Speaker 1: with this imperial presidency that we've basically created over the

2334
02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:52,480
Speaker 1: last fifty years and you know, like fifty seventy years,

2335
02:18:52,480 --> 02:18:55,680
Speaker 1: I mean, we can you know, I do this? This

2336
02:18:55,760 --> 02:18:56,800
Speaker 1: is one of those you want to talk about an

2337
02:18:56,840 --> 02:19:01,039
Speaker 1: undertended consequence and sort of I'm going to age myself here.

2338
02:19:01,080 --> 02:19:03,320
Speaker 1: But one of my favorite old SNL skits was Coffee Talk.

2339
02:19:03,360 --> 02:19:04,840
Speaker 1: And it wasn't really a skit, but it was just

2340
02:19:04,879 --> 02:19:07,840
Speaker 1: sort of it was basically the best part of coffee

2341
02:19:07,840 --> 02:19:14,240
Speaker 1: Talk where Mike Mike Michael Mike Myers played played I

2342
02:19:14,240 --> 02:19:16,360
Speaker 1: Forget her Name. But it was like it was like

2343
02:19:16,480 --> 02:19:21,039
Speaker 1: coffee talk. You know, it's like you'd throw out like

2344
02:19:21,080 --> 02:19:23,360
Speaker 1: a silly topic and it's like, okay, and discuss and

2345
02:19:23,400 --> 02:19:24,840
Speaker 1: then that would be the end of the segment. But

2346
02:19:24,879 --> 02:19:30,879
Speaker 1: it would be you know, television killed the Constitution discuss. Right,

2347
02:19:30,959 --> 02:19:34,920
Speaker 1: That's sort of the most provocative, simplified headline I could do.

2348
02:19:35,040 --> 02:19:38,920
Speaker 1: But ever since the era, right TV made the presidency

2349
02:19:39,000 --> 02:19:43,120
Speaker 1: and the president a singular celebrity in American society, and

2350
02:19:43,160 --> 02:19:47,000
Speaker 1: in some ways that celebrity seemed to help over time

2351
02:19:48,080 --> 02:19:50,880
Speaker 1: garner the position of the presidency more and more power,

2352
02:19:50,920 --> 02:19:53,200
Speaker 1: and you serve more and more power from Congress. So

2353
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:57,600
Speaker 1: let's say thesis. I'm not saying that's that's a fact,

2354
02:19:57,640 --> 02:20:01,840
Speaker 1: but that's a thesis that you could potentially defender or not.

2355
02:20:04,320 --> 02:20:06,360
Speaker 1: But Michael, what you really is, I'm going to find

2356
02:20:06,360 --> 02:20:08,160
Speaker 1: an excuse to do a deeper dive on the Articles

2357
02:20:08,160 --> 02:20:12,879
Speaker 1: of Confederation when I can soon. Nick from Michigan, Right, Hey, Chuck, Thanks,

2358
02:20:12,879 --> 02:20:14,879
Speaker 1: I find it regrettable to entertain such thoughts. But do

2359
02:20:14,920 --> 02:20:17,760
Speaker 1: you surmise that a component of Trump's strategic considerations for

2360
02:20:17,879 --> 02:20:20,720
Speaker 1: military intervention in Iran is to elicitate rally around the

2361
02:20:20,760 --> 02:20:25,320
Speaker 1: flag phenomenon that might favorably influence the midterm elections. Look,

2362
02:20:25,360 --> 02:20:28,880
Speaker 1: I understand you asking. I mean, you know, it's he

2363
02:20:28,920 --> 02:20:31,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't if he was thinking about that. He wouldn't be

2364
02:20:31,400 --> 02:20:33,440
Speaker 1: the first president to think about that. We've had a

2365
02:20:33,480 --> 02:20:36,680
Speaker 1: movie called Wag the Dog that is of some infamy,

2366
02:20:36,760 --> 02:20:39,120
Speaker 1: and it's about twenty odd years old these days, but

2367
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:44,280
Speaker 1: it's a it's a movie that's worth your time with

2368
02:20:44,400 --> 02:20:48,720
Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman. By the way, if you've never seen it,

2369
02:20:48,760 --> 02:20:51,360
Speaker 1: if you're in your forties and that film's new to you,

2370
02:20:51,400 --> 02:20:54,360
Speaker 1: go check it out. It's I don't think it'll feel

2371
02:20:54,480 --> 02:20:58,560
Speaker 1: too dated. But we manufacture a war with Albania, which,

2372
02:20:58,600 --> 02:21:01,000
Speaker 1: of course, if you're my age, when you hear the

2373
02:21:01,000 --> 02:21:03,920
Speaker 1: words Albania, you think of the TV show Cheers, because

2374
02:21:03,959 --> 02:21:10,600
Speaker 1: Albania Albania, it borders on the adri Attic. It's an

2375
02:21:10,600 --> 02:21:13,240
Speaker 1: old it's from the first season. You know, I'm going

2376
02:21:13,320 --> 02:21:16,720
Speaker 1: to digress here. The first season of Cheers was so

2377
02:21:16,800 --> 02:21:19,360
Speaker 1: impactful because I think Coach was only on it for

2378
02:21:19,400 --> 02:21:23,880
Speaker 1: one season, and yet Coach is the guy who played Coach.

2379
02:21:24,200 --> 02:21:25,800
Speaker 1: You know, he died after the season one, but he

2380
02:21:25,879 --> 02:21:30,080
Speaker 1: was the sort of the old pal of Ted Danson's

2381
02:21:30,080 --> 02:21:34,240
Speaker 1: there ted Danson's character, but he was the His one

2382
02:21:34,280 --> 02:21:37,320
Speaker 1: liners were the best. Woody Hearson was good, but nobody

2383
02:21:37,400 --> 02:21:39,840
Speaker 1: could top Coach. And what was amazing was like, how

2384
02:21:39,920 --> 02:21:43,000
Speaker 1: Coach sort of that show was on forever and Coach

2385
02:21:43,080 --> 02:21:44,920
Speaker 1: was only on it one season, and yet it felt

2386
02:21:44,920 --> 02:21:47,959
Speaker 1: like he always was sort of hovering over the show

2387
02:21:48,000 --> 02:21:51,840
Speaker 1: and it gave it part of its DNA. So yes,

2388
02:21:51,840 --> 02:21:55,039
Speaker 1: so wag the dog, Albania, see how my mind works.

2389
02:21:55,040 --> 02:21:57,200
Speaker 1: It got me to cheers Coach and all of that.

2390
02:21:58,360 --> 02:22:00,640
Speaker 1: This is I think why you subscribe, or maybe why

2391
02:22:00,680 --> 02:22:03,560
Speaker 1: you're about to unsubscribe right now. But but I tease,

2392
02:22:04,120 --> 02:22:07,120
Speaker 1: I just don't see how this helps his base. You know,

2393
02:22:07,160 --> 02:22:10,040
Speaker 1: I sort of would say, if you've listened this far,

2394
02:22:10,120 --> 02:22:13,480
Speaker 1: you probably heard a version of the answer I'm about

2395
02:22:13,520 --> 02:22:15,440
Speaker 1: to give now. It's I think you put together a

2396
02:22:15,440 --> 02:22:19,400
Speaker 1: coalition that's suspect of this. And again, my goodness, you

2397
02:22:19,440 --> 02:22:23,879
Speaker 1: know how short attention span this is March the elections

2398
02:22:24,120 --> 02:22:27,360
Speaker 1: are how many I mean, just look at this last

2399
02:22:27,400 --> 02:22:32,160
Speaker 1: week of things that happen, from the Clinton's being deposed,

2400
02:22:33,080 --> 02:22:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, for the Epstein situation, to Anthropic and Netflix

2401
02:22:38,120 --> 02:22:41,280
Speaker 1: and that sort of government intervention into the business community.

2402
02:22:42,360 --> 02:22:44,200
Speaker 1: We had the tariff ruling last week. I mean, you

2403
02:22:44,240 --> 02:22:47,400
Speaker 1: see where I'm going here, right, So I just think

2404
02:22:47,480 --> 02:22:52,160
Speaker 1: this is that's another the more more, you know, more

2405
02:22:52,240 --> 02:22:55,920
Speaker 1: likely to me. Iran is probably a neutral at best

2406
02:22:56,240 --> 02:23:00,240
Speaker 1: politically and only negative. Like I do not see a

2407
02:23:00,280 --> 02:23:05,240
Speaker 1: positive political impact here for Trump at all, because again

2408
02:23:05,280 --> 02:23:08,280
Speaker 1: I go back to George H. W. Bush couldn't have

2409
02:23:08,320 --> 02:23:12,320
Speaker 1: had a better outcome in liberating Kuwait. The man almost

2410
02:23:12,360 --> 02:23:17,520
Speaker 1: finished in third place for the presidency within a year

2411
02:23:17,520 --> 02:23:20,760
Speaker 1: and a half. So I think we know you know

2412
02:23:20,879 --> 02:23:24,720
Speaker 1: it is in that sense as American voters, we never

2413
02:23:24,760 --> 02:23:27,640
Speaker 1: look backwards. We only look in our wallet and a

2414
02:23:27,720 --> 02:23:35,200
Speaker 1: tiny bit forward. Corey from Southern California Rights, Hey, I

2415
02:23:35,240 --> 02:23:37,400
Speaker 1: hope you picked this question because I haven't heard anyone

2416
02:23:37,440 --> 02:23:40,800
Speaker 1: talking about this. Well I've picked this question. Well, my

2417
02:23:40,879 --> 02:23:44,560
Speaker 1: producer Lisa helped pick this question. But what's to stop

2418
02:23:44,560 --> 02:23:47,120
Speaker 1: Trump from reinstating the tariffs every one hundred and fifty days.

2419
02:23:47,120 --> 02:23:49,800
Speaker 1: It's the same tactic he used for Halligan's appointment before

2420
02:23:49,800 --> 02:23:51,800
Speaker 1: she was removed by the courts? Are there any guardrails?

2421
02:23:51,800 --> 02:23:54,280
Speaker 1: And do you think this is something he will consider? Thanks? Roy,

2422
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:57,640
Speaker 1: you do much respect from Southern California. The answers, of course,

2423
02:23:57,640 --> 02:24:01,080
Speaker 1: he's going to either do it within the same statute

2424
02:24:01,160 --> 02:24:03,640
Speaker 1: or use the other ones. There's all about five or

2425
02:24:03,680 --> 02:24:07,880
Speaker 1: six different emergency authorities that he can do. And one

2426
02:24:07,879 --> 02:24:12,120
Speaker 1: of the things that Stephen Miller has taught him is essentially,

2427
02:24:13,360 --> 02:24:16,959
Speaker 1: don't just because you think the courts may stop you,

2428
02:24:17,760 --> 02:24:21,200
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Make the courts stop you,

2429
02:24:21,840 --> 02:24:25,520
Speaker 1: make them meaning even if you know you're gonna lose,

2430
02:24:25,720 --> 02:24:28,080
Speaker 1: you may be able to force your way through. I mean,

2431
02:24:28,600 --> 02:24:31,199
Speaker 1: everybody knew he was going to lose this terriff argument,

2432
02:24:31,240 --> 02:24:34,520
Speaker 1: but they proceeded anyway. And what did they do? They

2433
02:24:34,560 --> 02:24:39,800
Speaker 1: bought so much time right that now it's gonna, i think,

2434
02:24:39,879 --> 02:24:41,879
Speaker 1: take a new court fight in order to get this

2435
02:24:41,959 --> 02:24:45,400
Speaker 1: administration to return the stolen money from the American consumers

2436
02:24:45,440 --> 02:24:48,320
Speaker 1: and the small businesses of America, who all rightfully should

2437
02:24:48,320 --> 02:24:51,280
Speaker 1: get their money back. And if they don't give the

2438
02:24:51,360 --> 02:24:54,360
Speaker 1: money back, then it's just is the government just taken

2439
02:24:54,480 --> 02:24:56,959
Speaker 1: money taken. I mean, you want to talk talk about

2440
02:24:56,959 --> 02:25:01,880
Speaker 1: the ultimate liberty moment, sons of liberty, the United States government?

2441
02:25:01,920 --> 02:25:05,200
Speaker 1: This is the tea Party. Shit, not the tea Party

2442
02:25:05,200 --> 02:25:07,440
Speaker 1: of the last fifteen years. I'm talking about the original

2443
02:25:07,520 --> 02:25:11,920
Speaker 1: Boston Tea Party. This is taxation right, that just they

2444
02:25:12,000 --> 02:25:15,280
Speaker 1: grabbed money and we had no say over it whatsoever.

2445
02:25:15,720 --> 02:25:19,120
Speaker 1: It was taxation literally without representation, because they did not

2446
02:25:19,160 --> 02:25:21,760
Speaker 1: go to Congress to get the ability to tax you.

2447
02:25:22,440 --> 02:25:25,280
Speaker 1: They took your money. Now they're refusing to give it

2448
02:25:25,360 --> 02:25:30,440
Speaker 1: back again. We've started a revolution over a monarch that

2449
02:25:30,520 --> 02:25:34,879
Speaker 1: did this. So yes, of course he's going to keep

2450
02:25:34,879 --> 02:25:38,400
Speaker 1: doing it because what he's learned is that make the

2451
02:25:38,440 --> 02:25:41,840
Speaker 1: court stop you, you'll continue to buy time. There's always

2452
02:25:41,879 --> 02:25:45,360
Speaker 1: another way, another this, And this is where you know,

2453
02:25:45,760 --> 02:25:50,520
Speaker 1: Stephen Miller is a incredibly smart and well informed guy

2454
02:25:50,560 --> 02:25:54,080
Speaker 1: about how the different aspects of the government works. It's

2455
02:25:54,120 --> 02:25:57,480
Speaker 1: too bad we can't put that intelligence for the betterment

2456
02:25:57,600 --> 02:26:01,480
Speaker 1: of the American Republic. Instead, it is used and it's

2457
02:26:01,520 --> 02:26:08,320
Speaker 1: been weaponized to essentially create a partisan agenda or realignment

2458
02:26:08,360 --> 02:26:11,440
Speaker 1: that is frankly not very popular with the country. So,

2459
02:26:12,879 --> 02:26:15,760
Speaker 1: by the way, the reason I lost, I got a

2460
02:26:15,800 --> 02:26:18,240
Speaker 1: little fired up there on this because that's yet another

2461
02:26:18,320 --> 02:26:22,039
Speaker 1: story that this Iran situation is overshadowed over the last week.

2462
02:26:22,080 --> 02:26:25,160
Speaker 1: But it's also another reminder why I don't suspect Iran's

2463
02:26:25,200 --> 02:26:28,200
Speaker 1: going to have any positive impact on Donald Trump and

2464
02:26:28,200 --> 02:26:31,000
Speaker 1: the Republicans at all, and if anything, it has negative

2465
02:26:31,000 --> 02:26:34,680
Speaker 1: impact because it comes to quagmire, or no impact because

2466
02:26:34,959 --> 02:26:38,280
Speaker 1: everything else matters a lot more to the American voter

2467
02:26:39,000 --> 02:26:41,920
Speaker 1: than the regime in Iran. And by the way, there's

2468
02:26:41,920 --> 02:26:45,560
Speaker 1: one other thing that I did not discuss in more detail.

2469
02:26:46,800 --> 02:26:49,920
Speaker 1: The greatest fear I have of what we're doing with

2470
02:26:49,959 --> 02:26:54,480
Speaker 1: Iran is not their conventional military response. It's their ability

2471
02:26:54,480 --> 02:26:58,320
Speaker 1: to potentially have an asymmetrical response. And I don't think

2472
02:26:58,360 --> 02:27:02,680
Speaker 1: the President has done it enough to warn Americans that, Hey,

2473
02:27:04,240 --> 02:27:06,840
Speaker 1: I don't care where you are, whether it's Los Angeles,

2474
02:27:06,879 --> 02:27:15,560
Speaker 1: New York, DC, Miami, Chicago, Abu Dhabi, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, London, Paris,

2475
02:27:17,120 --> 02:27:21,959
Speaker 1: the possibility of of you know, you think everybody in

2476
02:27:22,000 --> 02:27:24,320
Speaker 1: the regime is going away quietly. You think they'll all

2477
02:27:24,320 --> 02:27:25,920
Speaker 1: want to lay down their arms and cut a deal

2478
02:27:26,400 --> 02:27:28,200
Speaker 1: to survive, or do you think some of them want

2479
02:27:28,240 --> 02:27:32,440
Speaker 1: their power back and might try terrorist attacks as a

2480
02:27:32,440 --> 02:27:35,000
Speaker 1: way to flex their muscles. I just think that this

2481
02:27:35,080 --> 02:27:38,640
Speaker 1: has opened up a vulnerability for US Americans that our

2482
02:27:38,680 --> 02:27:43,720
Speaker 1: president has not prepared the country for on that front.

2483
02:27:45,360 --> 02:27:48,360
Speaker 1: All right, next question comes from David P. And Scottsdale.

2484
02:27:48,600 --> 02:27:51,560
Speaker 1: My first question David p that I know. My friend

2485
02:27:51,640 --> 02:27:55,200
Speaker 1: Tony Corneizer asked, are you from North Scottsdale anyway? But I,

2486
02:27:55,800 --> 02:27:57,720
Speaker 1: by the way, if you know you know, Hey, Jack,

2487
02:27:57,760 --> 02:27:59,959
Speaker 1: I believe you want independent. Yeah you went independent about

2488
02:28:00,000 --> 02:28:02,800
Speaker 1: a year ago. Yeah, okay, Yeah, that's probably the way

2489
02:28:02,800 --> 02:28:04,600
Speaker 1: to do it. I'm a big fan. Just curious about

2490
02:28:04,640 --> 02:28:06,280
Speaker 1: how the career change has gone. Are you spending more

2491
02:28:06,360 --> 02:28:08,680
Speaker 1: or less time on your substack podcast each week then

2492
02:28:08,720 --> 02:28:10,640
Speaker 1: you spend on an average doing your most recent job

2493
02:28:10,640 --> 02:28:12,880
Speaker 1: at NBC with almost a year of experience under your belt.

2494
02:28:13,000 --> 02:28:14,960
Speaker 1: What would you have advised yourself in twenty twenty four

2495
02:28:15,000 --> 02:28:17,119
Speaker 1: going into twenty twenty five. Love the show as it is,

2496
02:28:17,160 --> 02:28:23,160
Speaker 1: please don't change much? Well, David, Thanks appreciate it. Look,

2497
02:28:23,240 --> 02:28:25,600
Speaker 1: I have committed the sin that everybody warned me of

2498
02:28:25,760 --> 02:28:29,360
Speaker 1: is be careful saying yes too often too quickly. That

2499
02:28:29,520 --> 02:28:32,240
Speaker 1: a lot of I've been blessed with a lot of

2500
02:28:32,240 --> 02:28:35,440
Speaker 1: interesting opportunities, and I've probably said yes to quite a bit.

2501
02:28:36,120 --> 02:28:38,640
Speaker 1: I joke that I have no full time job, but

2502
02:28:38,760 --> 02:28:42,800
Speaker 1: like seventeen part time jobs. But I love this podcast

2503
02:28:42,879 --> 02:28:47,320
Speaker 1: the most. This is where I feel energize, This is

2504
02:28:47,320 --> 02:28:52,920
Speaker 1: where I feel like, Look, I I what I've tried

2505
02:28:52,920 --> 02:28:56,520
Speaker 1: to do with this podcast is sort of recreate the

2506
02:28:56,560 --> 02:28:58,840
Speaker 1: two hours a day that was my favorite two hours

2507
02:28:58,840 --> 02:29:01,320
Speaker 1: a day every day at NBC and all my colleagues

2508
02:29:01,320 --> 02:29:02,880
Speaker 1: that worked with me in NBC or no, we want

2509
02:29:02,879 --> 02:29:05,600
Speaker 1: to say, which is our our morning meeting? And it

2510
02:29:05,640 --> 02:29:08,280
Speaker 1: was for two shows, right, We had our planning the

2511
02:29:08,320 --> 02:29:10,520
Speaker 1: Sunday Show and planning the Daily Show. And I had

2512
02:29:10,520 --> 02:29:13,320
Speaker 1: two stabs of people at times in there. I mean

2513
02:29:13,440 --> 02:29:15,879
Speaker 1: a collection of what I think are the brightest and

2514
02:29:15,920 --> 02:29:18,640
Speaker 1: smartest people. I would love to start a news organization

2515
02:29:18,680 --> 02:29:21,120
Speaker 1: with that group of people. I miss all of you

2516
02:29:21,160 --> 02:29:23,840
Speaker 1: guys more than you realize. I'm tempted to name check

2517
02:29:24,560 --> 02:29:27,600
Speaker 1: some of you on how much I miss. Whether it's

2518
02:29:27,640 --> 02:29:31,039
Speaker 1: Sarah and Jesse who just who just we all three

2519
02:29:31,160 --> 02:29:36,040
Speaker 1: shared a brain, Melissa, John and David we visual We

2520
02:29:36,080 --> 02:29:39,080
Speaker 1: had visions that were very similar and we certainly knew

2521
02:29:39,080 --> 02:29:41,760
Speaker 1: how to and there's so many other folks in there.

2522
02:29:41,800 --> 02:29:47,640
Speaker 1: But I miss that. I miss that collaboration. But I've

2523
02:29:47,760 --> 02:29:50,200
Speaker 1: in some ways try to recreate sort of sort of

2524
02:29:50,280 --> 02:29:52,800
Speaker 1: like you know, how I always you know, I always

2525
02:29:52,800 --> 02:29:56,000
Speaker 1: said I wanted to always think about the day two

2526
02:29:56,000 --> 02:29:59,400
Speaker 1: and three story on day one rather than just living

2527
02:29:59,440 --> 02:30:01,720
Speaker 1: in the day one story, because I think we're here

2528
02:30:01,720 --> 02:30:04,600
Speaker 1: to educate and when I feel like I've able to

2529
02:30:04,800 --> 02:30:07,080
Speaker 1: do better here than I ever was in NBC. And

2530
02:30:07,120 --> 02:30:09,000
Speaker 1: it was more about a constraint, you know, I could.

2531
02:30:09,120 --> 02:30:11,400
Speaker 1: It's not about executive oversight or anything like that. It

2532
02:30:11,480 --> 02:30:15,000
Speaker 1: was just about the time constraints, the sort of stuck

2533
02:30:15,040 --> 02:30:18,039
Speaker 1: in old ways, right. It was no one individual it was,

2534
02:30:18,600 --> 02:30:21,600
Speaker 1: But I feel like I can. I feel like with

2535
02:30:22,040 --> 02:30:25,720
Speaker 1: less that I'm that I'm able to sort of both

2536
02:30:26,440 --> 02:30:30,720
Speaker 1: inform and educate. I think we in the news business

2537
02:30:30,800 --> 02:30:33,400
Speaker 1: don't educate enough. We do a lot of informing of

2538
02:30:33,440 --> 02:30:38,080
Speaker 1: what's happening, new information, you know, all that stuff, but

2539
02:30:38,200 --> 02:30:42,320
Speaker 1: we're terrible about the context, right, We don't explain. I mean,

2540
02:30:42,600 --> 02:30:44,760
Speaker 1: you know, I'm pretty proud of the fact, and you know,

2541
02:30:44,800 --> 02:30:47,400
Speaker 1: some of it's by happenstance. But one of my favorite

2542
02:30:47,440 --> 02:30:51,279
Speaker 1: subsets that I've started with the podcast is our podcast

2543
02:30:51,280 --> 02:30:54,080
Speaker 1: time Machine segment, which is basically this week in history,

2544
02:30:54,120 --> 02:30:56,960
Speaker 1: and I always try to pick something that's obviously relevant

2545
02:30:57,040 --> 02:30:59,040
Speaker 1: to the moment we're living in in some form or another.

2546
02:30:59,080 --> 02:31:04,040
Speaker 1: In a few weeks back, the Iranian Revolution, which was

2547
02:31:04,080 --> 02:31:06,040
Speaker 1: really more of a history of sort of America and

2548
02:31:06,520 --> 02:31:09,200
Speaker 1: its relationship with Iran over the years when we've gotten involved,

2549
02:31:09,760 --> 02:31:12,160
Speaker 1: and it was glad to have that already. You know,

2550
02:31:12,200 --> 02:31:14,720
Speaker 1: we had already published it. We reposted it over the

2551
02:31:14,720 --> 02:31:18,160
Speaker 1: weekend on YouTube. It's a good sort of you know,

2552
02:31:18,200 --> 02:31:23,840
Speaker 1: we're now suddenly this matters again. I still haven't seen

2553
02:31:23,879 --> 02:31:27,039
Speaker 1: anything like that on so called legacy television or on

2554
02:31:27,360 --> 02:31:31,080
Speaker 1: whatever you want to refer to it. I'm loath to

2555
02:31:31,160 --> 02:31:33,280
Speaker 1: just say, oh, the mainstream media is dead. Well, look,

2556
02:31:33,280 --> 02:31:36,200
Speaker 1: we're we're in the middle of building mainstream a new

2557
02:31:36,240 --> 02:31:39,800
Speaker 1: mainstream media. Meaning if mainstream media is the definition of

2558
02:31:39,920 --> 02:31:45,720
Speaker 1: fact based, well informed information, then yeah, accuse me of

2559
02:31:45,760 --> 02:31:48,080
Speaker 1: being part of the main new mainstream media. I think

2560
02:31:48,080 --> 02:31:51,840
Speaker 1: we're building something new here, something that is essentially truly

2561
02:31:51,959 --> 02:31:56,119
Speaker 1: for the mainstream, truly fact based, not trying to sort

2562
02:31:56,120 --> 02:32:00,520
Speaker 1: of get caught up too much in the performative. And

2563
02:32:00,600 --> 02:32:05,959
Speaker 1: so you know, I've I look, I feel energized. I

2564
02:32:06,040 --> 02:32:09,640
Speaker 1: loved my time at NBC. I have said, you know,

2565
02:32:10,600 --> 02:32:13,039
Speaker 1: didn't love the decision making that was taking place over

2566
02:32:13,040 --> 02:32:16,199
Speaker 1: the last eighteen months. But I know it wasn't that

2567
02:32:16,280 --> 02:32:20,640
Speaker 1: these were this was above their pay grades. They were

2568
02:32:20,680 --> 02:32:23,960
Speaker 1: executing a strategy that the corporation decided it wanted out

2569
02:32:24,000 --> 02:32:27,199
Speaker 1: of the news business. And I, like I said, we've

2570
02:32:27,200 --> 02:32:30,640
Speaker 1: seen it, whether it's Disney, whether it's Comcast, whether it's Paramount,

2571
02:32:30,720 --> 02:32:35,760
Speaker 1: whether it's Warner Brothers. Donald Trump has made it very

2572
02:32:35,760 --> 02:32:40,600
Speaker 1: difficult on publicly traded companies to get treated fairly in

2573
02:32:40,640 --> 02:32:43,320
Speaker 1: the regulatory process. If they have a news division that

2574
02:32:43,400 --> 02:32:47,640
Speaker 1: tries to practice distributing and reporting on the news honestly,

2575
02:32:48,160 --> 02:32:51,640
Speaker 1: and that's that's you know, that presents all sorts of challenge.

2576
02:32:51,640 --> 02:32:54,920
Speaker 1: They have a fetish irresponsibility the shareholders. I'm disappointed that

2577
02:32:54,920 --> 02:32:58,000
Speaker 1: they've all given up on having robust news divisions. That's

2578
02:32:58,040 --> 02:33:01,520
Speaker 1: a bummer, But you know what, there's enough demand for

2579
02:33:01,560 --> 02:33:03,640
Speaker 1: one that we're gonna and in some ways we're better

2580
02:33:03,680 --> 02:33:08,280
Speaker 1: off building one that's truly independent. Having one that is

2581
02:33:08,360 --> 02:33:10,560
Speaker 1: blessed by you know, that still is at the whims

2582
02:33:10,600 --> 02:33:14,200
Speaker 1: of a CEO and shareholders is probably quite dangerous and

2583
02:33:14,240 --> 02:33:16,120
Speaker 1: probably one that we ought to not have.

2584
02:33:16,440 --> 02:33:16,560
Speaker 3: Right.

2585
02:33:16,959 --> 02:33:19,000
Speaker 1: There shouldn't be a news organization where you say, well,

2586
02:33:19,000 --> 02:33:21,640
Speaker 1: that's a Murdoch news organization, that's an Ellison news organization,

2587
02:33:21,879 --> 02:33:25,440
Speaker 1: that's a Soros news organization or that new We need

2588
02:33:25,480 --> 02:33:28,920
Speaker 1: something that's truly independent, that doesn't feel like it owes

2589
02:33:28,959 --> 02:33:31,800
Speaker 1: anybody anything. And so in that respect, I feel like,

2590
02:33:32,360 --> 02:33:36,240
Speaker 1: you know, some of you're gonna say, boy, did did

2591
02:33:36,320 --> 02:33:39,200
Speaker 1: David just? Is he a planted question from Scottsdale? No,

2592
02:33:39,200 --> 02:33:41,680
Speaker 1: you're not a planted question, but she did allow me

2593
02:33:41,720 --> 02:33:43,440
Speaker 1: to advertise what I think is the best part of

2594
02:33:43,480 --> 02:33:45,959
Speaker 1: what we're doing. And in fact, I'm going to go

2595
02:33:46,000 --> 02:33:48,120
Speaker 1: ahead and use this as the last question and turn

2596
02:33:48,160 --> 02:33:51,640
Speaker 1: it into speaking of independent media. It'll be us independent

2597
02:33:51,680 --> 02:33:55,320
Speaker 1: media types that will have all the information you want

2598
02:33:55,320 --> 02:33:58,360
Speaker 1: on campaign twenty twenty six, starting in Texas on Tuesday

2599
02:33:58,480 --> 02:34:02,000
Speaker 1: night right here. My live streams, whether it's on YouTube

2600
02:34:02,080 --> 02:34:05,840
Speaker 1: or x Crystalizes live streams either on YouTube or Substack

2601
02:34:06,160 --> 02:34:10,119
Speaker 1: Decision TOST live stream whether on YouTube or x. We're

2602
02:34:10,160 --> 02:34:11,840
Speaker 1: going to try to get in some other areas as

2603
02:34:11,959 --> 02:34:15,360
Speaker 1: many as we can get to to do our live

2604
02:34:15,400 --> 02:34:18,160
Speaker 1: streams to make it as accessible as possible. And you

2605
02:34:18,160 --> 02:34:19,640
Speaker 1: know what we're not going to do. We're not going

2606
02:34:19,720 --> 02:34:22,600
Speaker 1: to make you pay a cable TV fee in order

2607
02:34:22,640 --> 02:34:25,440
Speaker 1: to hear our commentary. We're not going to make you

2608
02:34:25,560 --> 02:34:29,560
Speaker 1: join something, you know, pay a fee. It is all.

2609
02:34:30,200 --> 02:34:32,640
Speaker 1: It is all there for you as long as you've

2610
02:34:32,640 --> 02:34:37,039
Speaker 1: got access to the internet. So with that, I will

2611
02:34:37,080 --> 02:34:39,320
Speaker 1: put a pin on this episode. We or it's been

2612
02:34:39,360 --> 02:34:42,200
Speaker 1: an incredibly busied last ten days, and we're going to

2613
02:34:42,240 --> 02:34:45,200
Speaker 1: have an incredibly busy rest of twenty twenty six, that

2614
02:34:45,360 --> 02:34:50,160
Speaker 1: I promise you. So I'm gonna pause here, I will.

2615
02:34:51,520 --> 02:34:53,600
Speaker 1: I thought about a quick sports report, but this felt

2616
02:34:53,640 --> 02:34:56,000
Speaker 1: like a good place to end. I did spend my

2617
02:34:56,040 --> 02:34:59,040
Speaker 1: weekend watching GW lose an oh so close game against Dayton.

2618
02:34:59,520 --> 02:35:01,320
Speaker 1: You know, I have and spent a lot of time

2619
02:35:01,320 --> 02:35:04,000
Speaker 1: on college basketball yet, but guess what, I Am going

2620
02:35:04,080 --> 02:35:05,959
Speaker 1: to give you a little taste of college basketball because

2621
02:35:05,959 --> 02:35:10,800
Speaker 1: we're entering what might be the next four weeks of basketball.

2622
02:35:11,080 --> 02:35:16,560
Speaker 1: College basketball sort of euphoria. All right. It is unbelievable.

2623
02:35:16,720 --> 02:35:18,560
Speaker 1: And if I had a complete sports report, I'd also

2624
02:35:18,600 --> 02:35:21,520
Speaker 1: be bragging about how Carson Beck we stood booze at

2625
02:35:21,520 --> 02:35:24,720
Speaker 1: the Combine to show himself to be the most impressive

2626
02:35:24,760 --> 02:35:28,920
Speaker 1: quarterback at the Combine. So kudos to mister Carson Beck

2627
02:35:29,000 --> 02:35:32,199
Speaker 1: for doing great even while being the only quarterback booed

2628
02:35:32,760 --> 02:35:36,480
Speaker 1: when you're just trying to to your workouts. I'm excited

2629
02:35:36,520 --> 02:35:38,480
Speaker 1: to see that Carson Beck is going to be a

2630
02:35:38,560 --> 02:35:41,960
Speaker 1: Day two draft yet at minimum, and who knows, maybe

2631
02:35:41,959 --> 02:35:43,880
Speaker 1: he sneaks into the bottom of the first round. All

2632
02:35:43,959 --> 02:35:47,720
Speaker 1: right now, I'm gonna shut up. I'll see you in

2633
02:35:47,800 --> 02:35:55,520
Speaker 1: twenty four hours.