1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,199 Speaker 1: Hey, listeners. This episode is part of our new playlist 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: to help everybody get through these times we're living in. 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: It's our host faves playlist. Yeah, these are just some 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: of our personal favorites, ones that we had a particular 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: affinity for, and because these are stressful and trying times, 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: we tried to stick to the ones that weren't quite 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: as dour. So hopefully they'll give you a little lift, 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: Stay safe. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: Still in our favorite month of the year, October, Yes, 12 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: Halloween season, and so we have an episode that I 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: know a lot of people have requested that The only 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: person I wrote down was Betty, So thank you Betty 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: and everyone that I forget ought to write down in 16 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: addition to Betty. It is a topic that was written 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: about in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries as a factual 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: thing that really happened, but some people today classify it 19 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: more as folklore. And it is the green children of 20 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: Woolpit who made a really eerie appearance in Suffolk, England 21 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: and the twelfth century, we accidentally have a little theme 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: of like odd happenings in England at the beginning of 23 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: this we're kicking off with weird English stuff, apparently, and 24 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: by today's standards. The village of Woolpit is quite small, 25 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: with a population of only about two thousand people traveling 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: by car. It's a couple of hours northeast of London. 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: That's about thirty six miles or fifty eight kilometers east 28 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: of Cambridge. And in the twelfth century the area was 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: not exactly bustling, but it was more densely populated than 30 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: much of rural England, and it was a thriving agricultural center. So, 31 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: according to the story, one day in Woolpit, two children, 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: a boy and a girl, emerged from a series of 33 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: pits that were used for trapping wolves. These these wolf pits, 34 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: and not the fabric of wool are where wolf Pit 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: gets its name is named after wolf pits. There are 36 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: two chronicles of this event and what happened after these 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: two children appeared. What is by Ralph Abbot of Cogschal, 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: who wrote his explanation of what happened as part of 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: the Chronicon anglican Um, and the other is by William 40 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: of Newburgh and the Historia Rerum Anglicarum, or the History 41 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: of English Affairs, and both men wrote these accounts in Latin. 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: A translation of William's version by Joseph Stevenson is part 43 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: of a truly colossal set of volumes called The Church 44 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: Historians of England, which was published in eighteen fifty three 45 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: and is available online archive dot org if you want 46 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: to check it out. Stevenson translated Ralph's version two, but 47 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: we couldn't find that part of the Chronicon anglican Um 48 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: in English online, so instead of subjecting everyone to Ralph's Latin, 49 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: shoved through Google Translate, which is a hilarious activity if 50 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: you ever want to want to get some comedy in 51 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: your life. We're going to read Stevenson's translation of William's version. 52 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: I did, indeed, of Ralph's Latin version through Google Translate, 53 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: and that was my amusement for a good chunk of afternoon. 54 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 1: Before we get to William's version of this story, though, 55 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: I want to have a brief digression about Joseph Stevenson 56 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: because he is a character. He was the son of 57 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: a surgeon, but he also helped his uncle out in 58 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: his job as a smuggler. In his youth, he was 59 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: not particularly a good student either. While he was enrolled 60 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: at a grammar school that was attached to Durham Cathedral, 61 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: for some reason, he was keeping a loaded pistol among 62 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: his possessions, which went off while being handled by a servant, 63 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: and according to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, that 64 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: that had quote dramatic, although not grave consequences. I feel 65 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: like a t set must have been destroyed, and other 66 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 1: things as well. It gave no detail, but it makes 67 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: it sound like fortunately no one was harmed in this 68 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: accidental discharge of a firearm, but there was some dramatic incident. 69 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: And in spite of this checkered background, Stevenson wound up 70 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: working at the British Museum. He married and he had 71 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: two children, and then he changed courses to join the 72 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: clergy after he was traumatized by the death of his brother. 73 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: He became a priest after the death of his wife. 74 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: So where we come around to these monumental volumes of 75 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: translated works of history. He turned out to really have 76 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: a knack for translating and editing historical documents. He did 77 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: a lot of work for the historical Manuscript's commission. He 78 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: put together a bunch of different gigantic collections of historical 79 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: documents for various different clubs and historical societies. These ranged 80 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: from four to eight volumes in length. Some of them 81 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: were these gargantain editions of old religious and secular histories. 82 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: And this was just his thing. Apparently he was also 83 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: extremely personable and generous as well. So this is the 84 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: guy that did the translation of the thing that we're 85 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: about to read. Yeah. Worthy of a little mini biography 86 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: there for sure. Uh And back to the story. In 87 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: Stevenson's translation, William begins his account by saying that it 88 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: doesn't seem right to skip over the story of the 89 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: Green Children, But at the same time he had some 90 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: doubts about the matter. It seemed both ridiculous and mysterious. 91 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: But at the same time he had heard about it 92 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: from so many people, all of them very respectable and competent, 93 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: that he was quote compelled to believe. I feel like 94 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: this is a twelfth century version of the X Files poster. 95 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: I know, well, it's also a great that couching that 96 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: happens for spooky stories, and like I know this is ridiculous, 97 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: but there are enough reasonable people to believe it that 98 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: there must be truth in it. Yes, So we are 99 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: going to read his whole account because I love it 100 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: and I want to share it with all of you. 101 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: And it's a bit long. So we are going to 102 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: take turns. As we recently did when we talked about 103 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: the Devil's hoof prints. We took turns on a rather 104 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: lengthy passage. That's what we're gonna do again today. So 105 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: he he got into the story, saying, in East Anglia, 106 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: there is a village distant, as it is said four 107 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: or five miles from the noble monastery of the Blessed 108 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: King and Martyr Edmund. Near this place are seen some 109 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: very ancient cavities called wolf pits that in English pits 110 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: for wolves, and which give their name to the adjacent village. 111 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: During harvest, while the reapers were employed in gathering the 112 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: produce of the fields, two children, a boy and a girl, 113 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: completely green in their persons and clad in garments of 114 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: a strange color and unknown materials, emerged from these excavations. 115 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: While wandering through the fields in astonishment. They were seized 116 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,559 Speaker 1: by the reapers and conducted to the village and many 117 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: persons coming to see so novel ast sight. They were 118 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: kept some days without food. But when they were nearly 119 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: exhausted with hunger, and yet could relish no species of 120 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: support which was offered to them, it happened that some 121 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: beans were brought in from the field, which they immediately 122 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: seized with avidity, and examined the stock for the pulse, 123 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: but not finding it in the hollow of the stock, 124 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: they wept bitterly upon this. One of the by standards, 125 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: taking the beans from the pods, offered them to the children, 126 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: who seized them directly and ate them with pleasure. This 127 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: next sentence is my favorite sentence, and the entire thing 128 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,119 Speaker 1: by this food they were supported for many months until 129 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: they learned the use of bread at length by degrees, 130 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: they changed their original color through the natural effect of 131 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: our food, and became like ourselves, and also learned our language. 132 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: It seemed fitting to certain discreet persons that they should 133 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: receive the sacrament of baptism, would was administered accordingly. The boy, 134 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: who appeared to be the younger, surviving his baptism but 135 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: a little time, died prematurely. His sister, however, continued in 136 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: good health and differed not in the least from the 137 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: women of our own country. Afterwards, as it is reported, 138 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: she was married at Lynne and was living a few 139 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: years since, at least so they say. Moreover, after they 140 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: had acquired our language. On being asked who and whence 141 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: they were, they are said to have replied, we are 142 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: inhabitants of the land of St. Martin, who was regarded 143 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: with peculiar veneration, in the country which gave us birth. 144 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: Being further asked where that land was and how they came, 145 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: thence hither they answered, we are ignorant of both these circumstances, 146 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: and we only remember this that on a certain day, 147 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: when we were feeding our father's flocks in the fields, 148 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: we heard a great sound, such as we are now 149 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: accustomed to hear at St. Edmund's when the bells are charming. 150 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: And whilst listening to the sound and admiration, we became, 151 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: on a sudden, as it were, entranced, and found ourselves 152 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: among you in the fields where you were reaping. Being 153 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: questioned whether in that land they believed in Christ or 154 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: whether the sun arose, they replied that the country was 155 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: Christian and possessed churches, but said they quote the sun 156 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: does not rise upon our countrymen. Our land is little 157 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: cheered by its beams. We are contented with that twilight, which, 158 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: among you precedes the sunrise or follows the sunset. Moreover, 159 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: a certain luminous country is seeing not far distant from ours, 160 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: and divided from it by a very considerable river. These 161 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: and many other matters too numerous to particularize. They are 162 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: said to have recounted to curious inquirers. Let everyone say 163 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: as he pleases, and reason on such matters according to 164 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: his abilities. I feel no regret at having recorded an 165 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: event so prodigious and miraculous. So that's the story, I know. 166 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: Obviously they were asked a whole lot of other questions, 167 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: but it tickles me that the ones that he was 168 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: compelled to write down here were do you believe in Christ? 169 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: And also does the sun exist there? Uh? Yeah, maybe 170 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: they thought they were from another planet or the realm. 171 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: That's gonna come up. Yeah, Obviously, we're going to take 172 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: a quick break before we get into some of the 173 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: historical elements that relate to this story. Overall, Williams and 174 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: Ralph's versions of what happened with these Green children are 175 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: consistent with each other, although Williams is a little bit 176 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: longer and it has a few more details. Both agree 177 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: that the children were taken to the home of Lord 178 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: Richard de Cown, who lived in Wikes, which is about 179 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: six miles to the north of a little pit. Williams 180 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: mentioned of this isn't a footnote, which we didn't read, 181 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: which is why it probably does not ring a bell. 182 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: They both talk about the children having green skin and 183 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: only eating beans, and eventually assimilating with the rest of 184 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: the community, with the brother dying sometime after being baptized, 185 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: and unlike in the version we read, though, Ralph makes 186 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: it sound as though only the sister lived long enough 187 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: to tell their story. He doesn't mention a particular name 188 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: for where they came from, and there's no certain luminous 189 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: country that they could see from their home. There's also 190 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: a slight difference in the two accounts concerning how the 191 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: children claimed that they came to be in Wolpit. We 192 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: read in William's version that they had been tending the 193 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: flocks before hearing a loud noise, quotes such as we 194 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: are now accustomed to hear at St. Edmund's when the 195 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: bells are chiming but they didn't otherwise know how they 196 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: had wound up in Wolpit. Ralph, on the other hand, 197 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: said the children reported that they had become disoriented while 198 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: tending cattle, and they got lost, and then they followed 199 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: the sound of chiming bells through a long series of 200 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: underground passages before emerging emerging from a cave near Wilpit. 201 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: So bells are involved in both of them in a 202 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: slightly different way. One is sort of like they're hoping 203 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: to get home theoretically right, and the other is just 204 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: that they the bells put them in some odd mental state, 205 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,479 Speaker 1: that they went into a fugue state and traveled to Wilpit. Yes, Okay. 206 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: The two accounts do diverge in what happened to the 207 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: surviving sister of the pair as well. So we read 208 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: in William's account that she married a man living in Lynn, 209 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: but Ralph says that she became a servant in Lord 210 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: Richard de Cown's house and lived there for many years, 211 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: not necessarily happily, though he calls her quote very wanton 212 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: and impudent. Regardless, William indicates that she was still living 213 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: when he wrote his chronicle down and there's been some 214 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: discussion about exactly when in the twelfth century this event 215 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: might have happened. William of Newburgh lived from roughly eleven 216 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: thirty six to eleven His version was probably written down 217 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: towards the end of his life. Ralph's version made it 218 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: into print after William's death sometime around twelve twenty, so 219 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: a lot of times we would think, okay, the later 220 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: account is probably not quite as accurate. But even though 221 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: Ralph's version was written down later, he actually lived a 222 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: lot closer to Woolpit than William did. He said he 223 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: had learned the story directly from Lord Richard to count 224 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: himself um, whereas William was hearing it all at least 225 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: second hand. And William notes that it was at harvest 226 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: time during the reign of King Stephen, which was from 227 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: eleven thirty five to eleven fifty four. Ralph, on the 228 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: other hand, says that it took place during the reign 229 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: of his successor, Henry the Second, which was from eleven 230 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: fifty four to eleven eighty nine. Author and archaeologist Brian 231 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: Haughton points out that there's no mention of the children 232 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, which documents English history up 233 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: until Stephen's death, and includes a number of other odd 234 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: and wondrous stories. It's certainly possible that the Green Children 235 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: aren't in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle because it's authors didn't 236 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: know about it or just didn't think it needed to 237 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: be included. But if it's not included because it hadn't 238 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: happened yet, that would put the time frame into Henry 239 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: the Second's reign rather than Stevens. And regarding William's notation 240 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: of it being harvest time, the beans that they were 241 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: eating would have been broad beans, which are more commonly 242 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: known as fava beans in the United States. Those were 243 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: picked around July in August, so that's the approximate time 244 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: of year, and there is a lot to suggest that 245 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: something really did happen. The two accounts seem to have 246 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: been written completely independently of one another, and although William 247 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: does a bit of protesting about how he knows that 248 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: this story sounds unbelievable, both men wrote as though they 249 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: were documenting a real event that actually happened. At the 250 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: same time, when both men were writing purportedly mystical, supernatural 251 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: and miraculous events were a lot more likely to be 252 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: accepted at face value than they might be today. It 253 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: was pretty much normal to write down something as odd 254 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: as two green children crawling out of a wolf pit 255 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: and just accepting the idea that something supernatural was at 256 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: work without really having to examine it further. The story 257 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: of the Green Children of Wolpit definitely stuck around into 258 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: the thirteenth century, and from there it became a little 259 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: more obscure outside the immediate area until the late fifteen hundreds, 260 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: when the first printed edition of Williams Historia Rim and 261 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: Lacaram came out. A new edition that came out in 262 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: sixteen ten also included Ralph's version to the story as 263 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: a compliment to Williams. With that, it started making more 264 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: appearances in written works by other authors, who sometimes got 265 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: understandably confused about which version was Ralph's and which which 266 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: version was Williams. I, in fact, got few confused about 267 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: that repeatedly when working on this podcast. It's easy to 268 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: do retellings of the story from the fifteenth century and beyond. Also, 269 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: we're not usually quite as credulous as Ralph and William 270 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: had been. William Camden, writing in his work Britain Yax 271 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: is one example, here's his description, and I wish I 272 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: could share all of the delightful spelling in his description 273 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: with everyone. It's pretty great. It's pretty awesome, wolp. It 274 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: is a market town which meant merchant and soundeth as 275 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: much as the wolves pit. And if we may believe Newbrigensis, 276 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: who had told as pretty and formal a tale of 277 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: the place as is that fable called the True Narration 278 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: of Lucian, namely how two little boys forsuit of green 279 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: color hand of sadder's kind, after they had made a 280 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: long journey by passages underground, from out of another world, 281 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: from the antipoties in St. Martin's Land, came up here 282 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: of whom you would know more repair to the author himself, 283 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: where you will find such a matter as will make 284 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: you laugh, your phil if you have a laughing spleen. 285 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: I feel like I definitely have a laughing spleen. I 286 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: think so yet that we have um made that prognosis. 287 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: It's official. I will call my family doctor uh Newbergensis 288 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: was a name for William of Newburgh. The quote True 289 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: Narration of Lucian is a second century satire by Lucian 290 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: of sam Asada which details a trip to the Moon 291 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: that would rival our great Moon Hoax episode. There's a 292 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: whole bit about men with dogs heads that fight from 293 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: winged acorns, and flees as big as twelve elephants. Oh, 294 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: that's terrifying, and warriors armed with radishes flung from slings. 295 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 1: I love all of this. This work is obviously not 296 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: meant to be taken as fact, and Camden obviously does 297 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: not take the Green Children seriously at all. From there, 298 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: the story of the Green Children started to influence other 299 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: more fanciful works. Francis Godwin, The Man in the Moon 300 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: or a Discourse of a Voyage Thither, which he called 301 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: a quote essay of fancy, talks about a novel disciplinary 302 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: method employed by parents on the Moon where they would 303 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: send their unruly children down to Earth and brings them 304 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: earthly children back in their place. And in this whole 305 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: story he made reference to quote certain stories he had 306 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: heard confirming this idea it was true, and those certain 307 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: stories were Williams Historia Realm and Lacaram. I want to 308 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: know what happened to the earthly kids that lived on 309 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: the moon. Did they eventually get fed beans and turned green? 310 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: There's so many questions He might say I didn't read 311 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: the whole thing. The Green Children have continued to make 312 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: appearances in fiction into the twentieth century and beyond. Herbert 313 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: Reid's novel The Green Child came out in nineteen thirty four. 314 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: The Green Children of Bangos, set in Spain in eighty seven, 315 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: was part of John Macklin's five book Strange Destinies. The 316 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: Spanish setting is echoed in the nine ten thousand Maniacs 317 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: on Green Children, which starts in August day in the 318 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: Hills of Spain, a pair of children merged from a cave. 319 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: And of course there are lots of other stories and 320 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: books and TV episodes and the like that all draw 321 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: from this as well. And it's not totally clear whether 322 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: the Green Children are the inspiration for the basic idea 323 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: of Martians as little green men, but they were definitely 324 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: described as green, and people were also speculating that maybe 325 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: they were aliens. Earlier as the sixteenth century, and outside 326 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: of the world of fiction, the Green Children also started 327 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: being written about as folklore in the nineteenth century. In 328 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty, Thomas Kitely included bits of both Williams and 329 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: Ralph's accounts in his work Fairy Mythology. This was the 330 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: first time the story was available to people who did 331 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: not read Latin, and since it was in a book 332 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: by a folklorist called Fairy Mythology, a lot of people 333 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: from this point assumed that story was inherently folkloric. Sometimes 334 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: they're specifically fairies, such as in Catherine Briggs Dictionary of Fairies, 335 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: which came out in nineteen seventy six, and there are 336 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: also people who interpret them as forest spirits or personifications 337 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: of nature. I feel like the whole like fairy myth 338 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: right up through. Tinkerbell was very informed by all of this. 339 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: About the same time as Kitelie was documenting the story 340 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: as folklore, the Green Children were also becoming more widely 341 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: known to the general public. In eighteen seventy five, a 342 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: guide book to East Anglia reference to the Green Children 343 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: and then other mentions and other travel guides followed, as 344 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, interesting points of interests and interesting tidbits about 345 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: the place that you're visiting. A sign at will Pit 346 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: honoring the story. It was erected in nineteen seventy seven 347 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: is part of Queen Elizabeth Silver Jubilee, and today the 348 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: story is like they're on the village of Wilpit's web page. 349 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: And of course there are also a lot of rational 350 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: or not so rational explanations for what was really going 351 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: on here, and we're going to dive into those possibilities 352 00:20:53,520 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: after we first paused for a little sponsor break. So unsurprisingly, 353 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: there are lots of hypotheses about who the Green Children 354 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: were and where they came from. One connects them to 355 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: the Babes in the Wood, which was first written down 356 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: as a ballad in and The basic story of the 357 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: Babes in the Wood is that a very greedy uncle 358 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: was guardian to two young children and he was hoping 359 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: to steal their fortunes, so he hired some men to 360 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: take them into the woods and murder them. As so 361 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: often happens in these kinds of stories, the men he 362 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: hired didn't have the heart to do it and abandoned 363 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: them instead, so in the story, they eventually starved. This 364 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: folk tale is typically set in Wayland Wood, which is 365 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: about thirty miles or forty eight kilometers away from Woolpit, 366 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: so people suggesting that the Green Children were really the 367 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: Babes in the Wood just moved the location closer by. 368 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: And also, about four hundred years earlier than the ballads 369 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: first written appearance. That definitely doesn't mean ballad didn't exist earlier, 370 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: but like four years of a long time for a 371 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: ballad to go without being written down, or story to 372 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: go without being written down, at least by this point 373 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: in history. So compounding the kind of far fetchedness of 374 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 1: this explanation is they go to rationale for why they 375 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: were green, which is chlorosis, otherwise known as green sickness. Now, 376 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: while there are rare forms of anemia that can cause 377 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: a person to have a kind of greenish pallor, along 378 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: with the idea that people who are really nauseated are 379 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: described as looking green, sometimes green sickness is not that. 380 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: Green sickness was described in medical literature from the sixteenth 381 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: to late nineteenth century. It was diagnosed almost exclusively in 382 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: young women, and it was also called the virgin's disease. 383 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: The symptoms included things like restlessness, irritability, fatigue, too little appetite, 384 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: too much appetite, indigestion, ache, and an absence of menstrual periods. 385 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: Treatments included blood letting, marriage always on a prescription pad, 386 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: and medicines to bring on menstrual flow. To be clear, 387 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: marriage really meant sex in this case. And there are 388 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: some extremely suggestive ballads dating back to the sixteenth and 389 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: seventeen centuries about treatments, and we're using the air quotes 390 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: there for green sickness. There's actually a Sawbones episode about 391 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: green sickness if you want to hear a whole lot 392 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: more about this. It also does not really take a 393 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 1: lot of Google efforts to find these extremely suggestive ballots 394 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: ballads about how to treat green sickness. So obviously they 395 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: probably didn't have green sickness because that's not a real thing, 396 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: right uh. And also those in in this sort of 397 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: combination story of the green children in the Babes in 398 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: the Wood, the folks who don't suggest that maybe they 399 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: had clurosis often suggest that maybe the hired men did 400 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 1: act tried to kill them using arsenic, that they had 401 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: survived with the arsenic had turned their skin green. This 402 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: is a weird conflation of sort of two different historical things. 403 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: While arsenic has definitely been used to make green dies, 404 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: it was typically exposure to those dies that made a 405 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: person's skin turn green, not surviving an attempt to be 406 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: poisoned with it. Right, Arsenic in itself does not carry 407 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: that pigment right to a person's person. I guess if 408 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: you tried to murder someone with green die, which you 409 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: could have done, you could have done, then you might 410 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: have green skin. You'll be so fashionable and deceased. Yeah, 411 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: that would be a weird way to murder people. I 412 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 1: will make a great story for any of our writers 413 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: out there. You just take that one. Uh. The idea 414 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: that the Green children might have been aliens, which I love, 415 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: goes all the way back to William Camden, who suggested 416 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: that they were either satyrs meaning wild men, or Antipodeans 417 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 1: meaning aliens. Robert Burton also made a passing reference to 418 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: the idea that they may have come from another planet 419 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: in Anatomy of Melancholy, which was published in sixteen twenty one. 420 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: So the aliens hypothesis has been around for a really 421 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 1: long time and it has persisted to the present. In 422 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: article in Analog, which is a science fiction magazine, Duncan 423 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: Lunin asserted that they were from a human colony on 424 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: an alien planet, sent here through a malfunctioning transporter. And 425 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: this explanation also involves the Knights Templar in some way. 426 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: This is one of the few things I didn't actually 427 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: get to read for myself all the way through, some 428 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: relying on someone else's synopsis of it. But uh. Interestingly, 429 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: in a much more down to earth portion of this article, 430 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: he also pieced together a family treat for Richard to 431 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: count and claims that the surviving sister was baptized as 432 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: Agnes and that the man she married was a royal 433 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: official named Richard Barr. So that's a fascinating pass lead, 434 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: totally legit historical fact in the context of this overall 435 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: aliens article with the Knights Templar involved. I wonder if 436 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: that means that someone could trace their alien heritage all 437 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: the way back to Agnes, and you could know that 438 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: you are part from another planet, which you really all are, 439 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: because we're all made to start us to some degree, 440 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: true story, we're all aliens. The most complete practical explanation 441 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: for what might have happened came from Paul Harris in 442 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: and that was published in forty in Studies, which is 443 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: an offshoot of forty Times. I actually used a lot 444 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: of writing from one of the editors there for our 445 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: Devil's Footprints episode. Uh. And that's a magazine that's devoted 446 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: to strange phenomena, and he suggests that all of this 447 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: really happened in eleven seventy three in the reign of 448 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: Henry the Second. In brief, Harris suggests that these were 449 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: the children of Flemish immigrants and that their parents were 450 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: killed at the Battle of Formum in eleven seventy three. 451 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: The St Martin's land that the sister referred to was 452 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: Fornhum St Martin, roughly ten miles or sixteen kilometers from Wolpits. 453 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: They're not that far away and also not far from 454 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: the River Lark, so there would have been a river nearby. 455 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: According to this theory, they escaped the battle and then 456 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: the two children fled into Thetford forest and took refuge 457 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: in flint mines there before following the bells from Verry 458 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: St Edmund's to find their way out and make their 459 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: way to Woolpit. So their unknown tongue and clothing were 460 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: just Flemish and their skin was greenish due to malnutrition 461 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: due to this extended time of being abandoned and wandering 462 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: in flint mines. That all holds up. Uh, It all 463 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: sounds like it fits so very well, But of course 464 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: there are a few problems. One, the Flemish people killed 465 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: at Fornham were mercenaries hired to fight with English rebels 466 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: against Henry the Seconds Forces. Mercenaries generally as a rule, 467 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: did not bring their children with them into battle. Uh. Two, 468 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: it seems unlikely that no one around Wolpit spoke Flemish 469 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: or some other version of Dutch, at least enough to 470 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: spot it as a known language rather than some unrecognizable tongue. Three, 471 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: the river Lark isn't really that big, and even to 472 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: a child's eye, it's probably not quote a very considerable river, 473 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: So that descriptor does not really hold up. And for 474 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: this formum to Setford to Bury St. Edmunds to Woolpit 475 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: trek really goes way out of the way. It's actually 476 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: a total of about thirty miles or fifty two kilometers, 477 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: the first leg of it going in nearly the direct 478 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: opposite direction from Wolpit. Setford is also way too far 479 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: away from Barry St. Edmund's to hear the bells from there. 480 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: Also want a lot more just immediate non synchronization in 481 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: the descriptions that battle happened in October. So unless those 482 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: two kids wandered for months and months and months before 483 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: arriving in woolpit, like there would not have been any 484 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: fresh beans harvest because you'll remember that was what June July. 485 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: I think July August was when they are generally harvested. 486 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: That's nine including winter with two tiny children. Yeah, so malnourished, 487 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: tiny children. It's a mystery. Maybe they made the devil's footprints. Maybe, 488 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: so sickle side trip play a little prank. Time traveled 489 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: seven years maybe or some other number of years, depending 490 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: which account you ready, So pretty much all of the 491 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: historical um accounts and then also a lot of the 492 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: his like farther back in the past works of fiction 493 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: that we talked about today are all on the internet 494 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: for free, and they will all be linked from our 495 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: show notes to this episode. If you just really want 496 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: to go read either a colossally long history of the 497 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: Church in England as translated UH in the nineteenth century, 498 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: or if you just want to read some weird science 499 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: fictionesque stories about the moon written in the distant past, 500 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: Like that's all there. Who doesn't want to read those? 501 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: I kind of do. The whole thing about the flying 502 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: acorns and the dog faced people and the the specifically 503 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: multiple number of elephants, that the fleas were as big 504 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: as it's all. But people are pretty much on their 505 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: own if they want to go looking for the dirty ballads. 506 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: Is that where we decided the dirty ballads are not 507 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: linked into one of them is definitely not safe for work. Um. 508 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: But so, as I was trying to put together some 509 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: thoughts about green sickness, I found a larger than I 510 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: would expect number of just very incredulous papers published in 511 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: journals that were like, do you think green sickness could 512 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: have been caused by malnutrition? No? I think green sickness 513 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: probably was caused by misogyny. But but one of them 514 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: like this, it started out seeming like they were genuinely 515 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: asking whether there was some kind of organic mechanism at work. 516 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: And then the conclusion was like no, really, like people 517 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: just got really into Hippocrates and started making these Hippocratic diagnoses, 518 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: and that's why it suddenly enters this historical record at 519 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: this time and leaves and this time. But it was 520 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: through that one article that I found this particularly risk 521 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: a ballad, which you know, if you're an adult person 522 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: with kind of a skewed sense of humor, it is 523 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: always funny to me and a little in a little 524 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: bit of a silly and almost borderline charming way to 525 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: read sort of dirty writing. And I'm again I'm using 526 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: the air quotes from really olden times because their choice 527 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: of words is just very funny to today's years, and 528 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: that's what makes it hilarious. Yeah. So, I don't know. 529 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: If you try to search for this yourself and you 530 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: come up with with no responses, just send us an 531 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: email history podcast that how stuff works, that calm. I 532 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: will tell you where to find it. Tracy is going 533 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: to peddle the dirty paddles. Thank you so much for 534 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: joining us today for this classic. If you have heard 535 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: any kind of email address or maybe a Facebook you 536 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: are l during the course of the episode, that might 537 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: be obsolete. It might be doubly obsolete because we have 538 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: changed our email address again. You can now reach us 539 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: at History podcast at I heart radio dot com and 540 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: we're all over social media at missed in History and 541 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, 542 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, and wherever else you listen 543 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: to podcasts. Stuff You Missed in History Class is a 544 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, from I 545 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 546 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.