1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. My guest today, 5 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: Penjollette is the speaking half of the duo Penn and Teller. 6 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: Their act mixes magic and comedy with a subversive element 7 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: that turns the traditional magic act on its head. In 8 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: addition to having one of the longest running shows in 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: Las Vegas, Penjoleette is also a musician, juggler, and inventor. 10 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: The six foot six outspoken atheist and libertarian also finds 11 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: time to write books, host TV shows, and appear as 12 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: a contestant on Dancing with the Stars and The Celebrity Apprentice. Recently, 13 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: Pendolet performed Defeat harder than any magic trick. He made 14 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: a hundred pounds disappear. I had wicked high blood pressure, 15 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: and I was telling myself, because it's easy to tell 16 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: yourself this, that it's genetic or there's nothing you can 17 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: do about it, and then there is UH. And I 18 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: just started eating in order to fix my blood pressure, 19 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: which ends up as a side effect losing a lot. 20 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: Were you leaner and and and and and kind of 21 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: readier when you were young and you got heavier as 22 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: you got over? Yeah? Sure, I was an American is 23 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: another way to say that, right, Yeah, America that was 24 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,559 Speaker 1: doing you. What was the problem. Well, now I'm eating 25 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: what were you not? What are you not eating? Now? 26 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm eating no animal products, no refined grains, extremely low salt, 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: sugar in oil. So I'm not able to do things 28 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: in moderation. One of the reasons I've never had a 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: drink or any drug in my life is I'm very 30 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: aware that moderation is not my strongest I can't imagine 31 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: you and I. Yeah, you and I trapped in this 32 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: room with a bowl of cocaine and the two trail 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: makes bars and the cacao. We wouldn't need the food 34 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: if we had the cocaine. But so so I've never 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: you know, has has so much as a puff of marijuana. No, 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: that's true. Never, never a sip of beer, because well, 37 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: my personality is such. Not only do I not do moderation, 38 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: I also don't respect it. If you tell me about 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: an author that I need to read I will go 40 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: home and read everything. You know, if you uh, if 41 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 1: I when I start to listen to a different kind 42 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: of music, you know, if all of a sudden I 43 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: discover alban Berg. I'm listening to all twelve toned German 44 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: opera for months, and I love living like that. I 45 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: mean a lot of people seem to strive from moderation. 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: I don't. So you and your wife, you're gonna have 47 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: a family, You're gonna have like twelve Fortunately you're able 48 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: to stop that with a vast activation and you don't 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: have to do any moderation. What science can science and 50 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: science can step in on these things. Interviews? But because so, 51 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: what's something that you craved or liked or that you 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: stopped eating? It's really interesting? But do you mind me 53 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: as I find that? Uh, it's exactly like situation comedies. 54 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: When you were watching situation comedies every night when you're younger, 55 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: they kind of make sense and you want to watch 56 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: them the next night. But if you stop for two 57 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 1: months and you go back and watch a situation comedy, 58 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: it's nonsense. Why would anybody watch this? Don't they have 59 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: real friends? Why are they watching this? Where do they 60 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: get all that money? For that apartment. And the same 61 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: thing with with food. Uh I really, for the first 62 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of months, wanted uh hamburgers and 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, fried chicken and all that stuff all the time. 64 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: And then after a couple of months the food I 65 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: was eating tasted great. It's exactly like you you listen 66 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: to music. You listen at four on the floor, three chord, 67 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: rock and roll, and you love it and it's great, 68 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden someone says, oh, and 69 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: there's jazz, and you go, oh, there's whole difference sounds 70 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: and different stuff. It's that salt, sugar, fat is just 71 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: that boom boom boom boom. But you take that away 72 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: and there's a zillion other flavors. Everything changes, including And 73 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit embarrassed about this because I tend 74 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: to as much as I'm a strong atheist, I still 75 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: catch myself occasionally in a in a mind body separation, 76 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, thinking that there's there's some sort of intellectual 77 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: side different the physical side. I was really surprised how 78 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: my mood changed. Are you ready to become a Catholic? 79 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: Very close? He thinks you're great, there's a great here's 80 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: a great story about Roy of Siegfried and Roy. Yeah, 81 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: meeting the Pope, and Sigfried and Roy met the Pope, 82 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: you know, the great magicians. They meet the Pope and uh, 83 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: Roy gives him a ring and the Pope takes the 84 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: ring and hands it to the assistant as this is 85 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: a gift. And then Roy goes, no, no, that that 86 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: is utual, blessed and give back to me my whole 87 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: Oh my god. That which is all you need to 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: know about Roy and the Pope. Now when you when 89 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: you you you just touched on many subjects atheism. You've 90 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: covered everything. We're done. We guys count now. But the 91 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: the let let's talk about that meaning. Did you know 92 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: you were an atheist from from the earlier? You had no? No, 93 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: I was you know, people do this thing that uh 94 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: that I always always feel very um. I feel it's 95 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: very important to point out. They always say, you know, 96 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: religious people must have treated you badly. I'm a religious personal, 97 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: treat you well. The point is religious people treated me wonderfully. 98 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: I have always been treated very well by religious people. 99 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: I was raised, I have a perfect family life. My 100 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: mom and dad and my sister and I were very 101 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: very close. I was raised a Congregationalist Massachusetts wh to 102 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: mess and I went to church an hour you know north. 103 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: When I got to be uh junior high age, my 104 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: parents said I could go to youth group instead of 105 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: Sunday morning services. I wanted to, and I went to 106 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: youth group, and I believe I was the only one 107 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: who took us seriously. And the minister spoke with us 108 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: about religion, and I read the Bible and then came 109 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: in with some questions, and I had a wonderful, wonderful 110 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: minister who was very open and would talk with me 111 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: for hours. I did this exactly the way the church 112 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: would want you to do it. There was no horrible rebellion, 113 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: there was no fuck you, there was no screaming, there 114 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: was no being molested. I have not one horror story. 115 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: I've just kind, wonderful, sweet people and an intellectual discussion. 116 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: And I went, you know, I don't like the idea 117 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: of putting God before my family. My family is more 118 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: important to me, and I don't like the idea of 119 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: their being a love greater than the love I have 120 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: from my family and friends. And I do believe that 121 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: humans are good on their own without this, and I 122 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: don't think anything happens after we die, and my minister 123 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: and I and there's you sound like a moderate Republican. 124 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: There's there's no way to tell this story without making 125 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: him look like a goofball. But he's not a goofball. 126 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: This is a sensible thing. He called that. My mom 127 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: and dad had said, you know, Penn is doing wonderful 128 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: and youth group, but we're having discussions, and I believe 129 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: he's doing a better job at converting the other children 130 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: to Atheism than I am with Christianity. So why don't 131 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: you just not have him come to you group anymore? 132 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: And I talked to my my parents and uh, my 133 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: dad till the day he died, prayed for me and 134 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: would say what he has Carles, and he would say 135 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: to me all stuff all the time, like, well, Pen, 136 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: you were such a good Christian. I say, except for 137 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: that not accepting Christ than Dad, except for that if 138 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: you separate out the dogma of a particular religion. Because 139 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: I'm a Catholic, I was raised a Catholic, and over 140 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: the ark of my present, when I when I've been 141 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: over the ark of my life, I've I've lapsed and 142 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: gone back and laps to go back. But a priest 143 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: who I grew up with, who was a priest in 144 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: the church I went to when I was a boy, 145 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: he said, at best, he said, listen, all the great 146 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: religions have something to offer to me. Hinduism and Judaism 147 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: and Buddhism and so forth, and Muslim he says, He said, 148 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: the Catholics just seem to have the nicest places to 149 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: hang out, the nicest real estate. But you separate all 150 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: the dogma of any particular religion, and to me, atheism 151 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: is you just don't believe there's a God, right. And 152 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: I also, regardless of your individual relationship, there's there isn't 153 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: really there there there is no moral code that goes 154 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: along with that. There's a lot of stuff we've noticed 155 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: about atheists, you know, but there isn't an actual church 156 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: of atheism. And I wanted to say with a great 157 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: deal of pride that my mom when she was eight 158 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: five eight five years old, and what did it? Was 159 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: this this but this is the Great Father was like God, damn. 160 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: My dad used to say, and this is, you know, 161 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: just a tribute to My dad was the most most 162 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: wonderful man I've ever met. My dad would say to me, 163 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to work so hard after I 164 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: die to get you and your mother into heaven. But 165 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. I just have to work very, 166 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: very hard. You can make it so much easier for me. Yes, 167 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: you have to know that. My mom and my dad 168 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: never said hell or damn or any absenter hard in 169 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: the house, hardcore, no alcohol, no heller, damn. When I 170 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: started doing card tricks, my my my father was like, 171 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: you won't be gambling though. You can do card tricks, 172 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: but I don't like having a deck of cards in 173 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: the house. I would say, Dad, I'm just doing manipulations 174 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: and tricks. Well, that's fine. Now when people obviously, when 175 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: they think of you, they think of you as part 176 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: of a tandem and your partner. It's always mystified to 177 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: me the mute performer, what's that like for him to 178 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: play that role all these years? It's thirty years forty 179 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: good god, and uh it is a very shut up 180 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: when he's home. Well, that's that's the joke. Everybody in 181 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: the crew will tell you. Penn speaks on stage, doesn't 182 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: speak off stage. Tell there, doesn't speak on stage, never 183 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: shuts up. When if you were to come to one 184 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: of our rehearsals. Uh, it's me sitting over the corner 185 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: reading the paper, and tell their talking to everybody handling. 186 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: They tell us essentially, O Lucille Ball direct and but 187 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, tell her direct Shakespeare. You know he's he's 188 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: directing The Tempest in Chicago, a wonderful production with real magic. 189 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: The Yeah, but more more directing and more writing. And 190 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: he's very articulate. Who's a high school Latin and Greek 191 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: teacher and he is a classic scholar. Where does he live? 192 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: Where as his home Vegas? So you guys both live 193 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: in this Yeah, about five miles apart. And you have 194 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: a theater that your own theater, and it's really near obligated. 195 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: The contract is how many months of the year until 196 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: we die? I mean we do? We do forty six 197 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: weeks a year for now, yeah, when you if we 198 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: ever crossed your if you ever, we don't have time off, 199 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: and we sometimes do run outs on the on the day, 200 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: on the day, supposedly six weeks. In Vegas. We do 201 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: about two d and fifty shows a year a little more. 202 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: It's a pretty easy schedule, but I make it as 203 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: hard as possible because I play upright bass, jazz bebop 204 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: for an hour before the show, and then we meet 205 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: everybody after the show. So we turn a cushy ninety 206 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: minute gig into three and act like Steve Martin yeah 207 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: and everything. Yeah, yeah, I do. When Steve's in town. 208 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: I love to talk music with When you were a child, 209 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: I mean I grew up and anything magic or anything 210 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: of the paranormal, if you will, Eurie Geller, crest Skin, 211 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: all those, I mean, I grew up glued to that. 212 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: I love that where you glued to that kind of 213 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: stuff to come into your life. I was. I was 214 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: horrified by Kreskin Um. I believed when he went on 215 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: he went on a television show and he did an experiment, 216 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: as he called it, and I believed that this was 217 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: an area of science. I was fascinated by science, an 218 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: area of science that I wanted to study. And my parents, 219 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: who I said, weren't wealth. He bought me was a 220 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: little ESP game as piece of ship with little pendulum 221 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: in the ESP cards. And then I would do that 222 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: with my parents over and over and then um, because 223 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: I was becoming a juggler and practicing all the time 224 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: in the library. If you cast your mind back to 225 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: the Dewey decimal system. You know that the nine hundreds 226 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: are religion, magic, juggling. They're all there together, which is great. 227 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: My whole life is in the nine decimal system. I 228 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: happened to see a dune in your book The Mentalist 229 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: from the forties. Yeah, he's he's He was the most 230 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: popular mentalist mind reader. And I opened the book on 231 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: magic and theyre in There was the description of how 232 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: to do the trick I'd seen Christ can do as 233 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: an experiment, And that moment in the library was a 234 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: complete breakdown. I mean I went, I could not believe 235 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: that a scientist, which is the way I perceived it, 236 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: had lied to me. And I went almost humiliated in 237 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: front of my parents. By the way, here's the birth 238 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: of the bullshit show too. By the way, absolutely everything 239 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: my whole life, and I also pretty much at that 240 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: point went from straight a's to failing because I said 241 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: to my physics teachers and scientists, lie. Why am I 242 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: listening to you scientists? Lie? Scientists? And I hated magic, 243 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 1: hated magic because why would you be fooling people? It's 244 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: hard enough to figure out about the world is hard enough. Yeah, 245 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: why why are you doing that? And my parents, you know, 246 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: would try to console me. It's just a stupid little 247 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: game pad. God, Dad, It's okay, No, No No, I'm a juggler. 248 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: I'm not a magician all of this. And it wasn't 249 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: until I met Teller, who I met when I was 250 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: in high school. Until there's seven years older than me 251 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: and amazing Randy and may explain to me the very 252 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: simple thing that if you put a procenium around something, 253 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: it's all of a sudden moral. If Robert de Niro 254 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: runs around New York saying he's Travis Bickle and he's 255 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: a cab driver, he is insane. If he does it 256 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: in a movie, he's a genius. Yes, And the same 257 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: thing with magic. If you come to our show, all 258 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: the stuff we do would be immoral if you take 259 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: that proscenium. So you did a lot on the street, 260 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: you were on the street, yeah, yeah, but but always 261 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: as a juggler, it wasn't. Uh. So we try to 262 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: follow this very strict moral code in the penn and 263 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: tell the show, which is what I call the sawing 264 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: a woman in a half code sawing a woman in 265 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: the half, which is we saw a woman in to 266 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: have haves on stage. You see that no one leaves 267 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: the theater thinking they've witnessed a murder. Nobody. That is 268 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: my rule for all magic. If I'm going to do 269 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,119 Speaker 1: a mind reading trick, you cannot leave the theater thinking 270 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: that I can read minds. It must be exactly the 271 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: same as not witnessing a murder. There's a lot of 272 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: intellectual and moral gymnastics that need to be done in 273 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: order to follow that code and tell her and I 274 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: A big part of our writing tricks is trying to 275 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: be intellectually honest. So what is it required of the 276 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: street performer that you had the street and they score well? I, 277 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, I uh, with my parents permission. You know, 278 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: left home when I was eighteen and was essentially homeless, 279 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: hitchhiking around the country hippie and I supported myself juggling 280 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: on streets and juggling in bars. And uh, you need 281 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: to uh, you need to gather a crowd, and you 282 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: need to collect the money for the bit of a 283 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: barker question, what's yeah? Or is they called to the 284 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: carny talker? Um? I was a really really good street performers, 285 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: a matter of fact teller. I'm not sure how to 286 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: take this, but tell her always says, you know, the 287 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: best thing you've ever done in your career was your 288 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: a bit of street act. There was really nothing better 289 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: than that. Where was the money good? What was the 290 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: place that was like? I had a rule that I 291 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: would only work places that it was illegal, because I 292 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: thought that was sexy. And I worked head out Square 293 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, and uh, I knew all the police officers, 294 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: and the police officers would come to my show and say, 295 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: the second someone can convince me that you're begging, I'll 296 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: arrest you. Until then you're doing a show, and I 297 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: would do. I I was making so much money. I 298 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: was nineteen years old and I was making so much 299 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: money street performing. I went to an accountant and I 300 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: said to file taxes. I said, I want to file 301 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: my taxes and the money I made And he said, 302 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: what do you do when I said, I'm a street 303 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: jungle And he said, how much do you make? And 304 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: I told him and I said, I have you know, 305 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: I keep records of every hat I passed and how 306 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: much I make, and I have it all laid out here, 307 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: and I had when I brought it to the bank 308 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: and when I did everything. And he said, in your nineteen. 309 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: I said yeah, And he said, if you go to 310 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: the I R S And tell the you made this 311 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: much money juggling, they will arrest you as a drug dealer. 312 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: They will assume you're a drug dealer. And then he said, 313 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: and oh, by the way, I think you're a drug dealer. 314 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: By the way, I don't believe. And I said, well, no, no, 315 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm really making this. He goes, take the money, don't 316 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: put it in the bank, keep it in cash, walk away, 317 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: And when does that change meaning that you're doing that? 318 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: And then I put all that money. Well, first of all, 319 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: totally ruined my voice because I'd work for five people 320 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: outside no training, just scream and put chloris, put chlorosceptic 321 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: in a coke can and just go. Or is your 322 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: costume to try to oh yeah. My rule on street 323 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: performing was you have to look so that people are 324 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: embarrassed to give you less than a twenty. So I 325 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: wore a three thousand dollar watch when I street performed. 326 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: I wore a really expensive suit, really expensive pants, was 327 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: perfectly groomed, much more than what I went, like Michael 328 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: Douglas than the artful does. Absolutely absolutely. My idea was 329 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: I want to make as much money as Johnny Carson, 330 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: so I'll be out there looking like Johnny Carson. So 331 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: the idea was I would gather a crowd and you 332 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: come up and go, man, he's really funny. He's really 333 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: a good juggler. You'd be with your date and go, 334 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: I can't give him fifty cents. I get a twenty. 335 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: You can't do that and uh And then Teller would 336 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: alternate with me in the same spot, which we kind 337 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: of owned, and the um, the local hoodlum children uh 338 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: loved us because what I would do is I, you know, 339 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 1: have them take care of my money and buy props 340 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: from me and take care of that kind of stuff. 341 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: Trusted them. So anybody else that came in to take 342 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: that spot, the police arrested them and the local kids 343 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: are asked them. So we had that spot to ourselves, 344 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: and I would go to all the store owners that 345 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: are around there. I would go up after every show 346 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: and say, you're getting enough traffic in and out. I'm 347 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: not blocking Everything's okay. The police officers liked us. He 348 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: joined the Chamber of Commerce, yes pretty much, and we 349 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: did that very well. Then then I really got interested 350 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: in doing uh Tell, and I wanted to do a 351 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,719 Speaker 1: full evening show. We thought that the ideas that we 352 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: had were more than just the twelve minutes. So we 353 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: took all the money that we've made street performing and 354 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: put it into buying lights and sound and and producing. 355 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: Our very first shows were at the Walnut Street Theater. 356 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: They had a space that would seat like seventy people 357 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: and they had put that aside with a grant for 358 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: experimental theater, and the experimental theater company UH could not 359 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: get it together in three months to put an experimental 360 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: show on. Now you know, they couldn't in three months 361 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: get it together. So they came to teller they gone 362 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: to college with, and said, you're doing your little show, 363 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: can you just put it in and we'll let you 364 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: have the theater for free. Now they were getting grants, 365 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: we could have the theater for free. So we put 366 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: the show up and we charged whatever it was ten dollars, 367 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: and we got wonderful reviews and put the place up 368 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: and then the UH, the head of the Walnut Street 369 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: Theater called us in and said, uh, so the theater 370 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: company up there, they gave you the they gave you 371 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: the space, and how much money they give you to 372 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: put this on? We said nothing. They just gave us 373 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: a space, which is a big help man, huge help 374 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: not to pay rent. We could really make money on this. 375 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: We're supporting ourselves. This is trip we're getting going. He goes, yeah, yeah, 376 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: And they were paid money to put a show on 377 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: in there, and they just give to you afraid. So 378 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: you guys are welcome to use the theater whenever you want. 379 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: And they're losing all their grants. So we became we 380 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: became the people that killed the experimental theater in that particular, 381 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: and they were like, what did you do to us? 382 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: We said, we didn't even we didn't know. We were 383 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: supposed to lie. We could have said we can't make 384 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: money in there, but as it turned out, we could 385 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: make money, you know, and in a hundred seed theater, 386 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: we we could fill it up and make money doing 387 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: nhhos a week. Um. So you you you perform inside 388 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: and you start to do the show. And what kind 389 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: of a show was it back then? We we did 390 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: we was the three person and show that we had 391 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: a we had a third partner who did classical music, 392 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: and it was called the Asparagus Valley Cultural Society and 393 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: h we got we did a thing that was so nuts. 394 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: Teller was in charge of the putting the ads together 395 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: and putting them in the paper, and I was in 396 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: charge of getting critics to the show. So I just 397 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: put on my leather jacket and went, you know, to 398 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: the list of people that were critics, and walked up 399 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: to their desks and said, Hi, I'm Penn. We're doing 400 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: a show next Friday. We can give you free tickets. 401 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: Would you come and review our show? To the you know, 402 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: to the head critic and the Philadelphia inquirer, who went, 403 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 1: what are you doing here? No, you'd go through your 404 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: press agent and do this, And he said, why should 405 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: I come see your show? And I went, because I 406 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: can do this? And I picked up his little spindle 407 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: that he put papers on and rammed it in my 408 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: head and jammed it in my nose, doing a thing 409 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: called blockhead and old Carney trick and you know, and 410 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: then took out a cigarette lighter and did a little 411 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: bit of fire eating stuff and said, come to our show. 412 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: And he was not supposed to review little shows. He 413 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: was the big credit, but he came to see our show. 414 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: And then he wrote a rave review and which piste 415 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: off everybody because other big shows are opening, and then 416 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: teller said you have to call him up and thank them. 417 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: So I said, okay. So I called him up and said, 418 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: thank you for your review. It's gonna sell a lot 419 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,239 Speaker 1: of tickets. We're doing really well. And he said did 420 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: you like the review? And I said, well, it's gonna 421 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: sell a lot of tickets. It's gonna do really well. 422 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: And he goes, wait a minute, did you like Did 423 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: you like the review? I said, well, it's selling a 424 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: lot of tickets and I appreciate it. Thank you very much, sir. 425 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: And he said, what are you saying. I'm saying it's awful. 426 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: You don't understand the thing we were doing. It's you 427 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: say kind stuff about us. But I did this show 428 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: so someone would understand it. You missed the point of everything. 429 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: I was saying. It broke my heart. And there was 430 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: a long pause and he said, uh, can I do 431 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: an interview with you for like a few hours, and 432 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: then I will write another review. I'll see the show again. 433 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: And I said sure. I told tell her just tell 434 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: us to just take up. I said, yeah, hey, I 435 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: told him his review sucked. What are you doing? And he, uh, 436 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: Two weeks later wrote another bigger review that said, more 437 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: to your liking, this is a retraction of my previous review. 438 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: I said they were wonderful, and they are, but everything 439 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: else I said was wrong. And then he went in 440 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: to wrote a whole other reviews. So now we've got 441 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: a hundred seat theater that have had two front page 442 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: of the Entertainment section reviews within two weeks. So all 443 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: of a sudden, we're selling ticket sold hundred seats. You know, 444 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: selling a hundred seats is not that hard, but it 445 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: was huge to us. And then a producer sauce there, 446 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: and we went out and played in San Francisco for 447 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: three years at a theater there there was a hundred 448 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: or something. Remember reading an article once about because I'm 449 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: thinking about Vegas and when I know about Vegas acts, 450 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: and I've been to Vegas a few times, but not 451 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: not a lot. I'm not a gambler. I go see shows. 452 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: Is that vice? I don't. I don't. I never I 453 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: never get dog gamble. With your background, it seems like 454 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: I always would. I would go and people would gamble, 455 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: I think, and I lost, and I thought, I I 456 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: can't afford this hard money to throw it. And I'd 457 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: see guys who do that. I mean, I don't want 458 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: to name names, but I got some pretty high end 459 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: friends of mine who really blow a lot of dough 460 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: on that. I go, God, how do you do that? 461 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: And so irresponsible? Many other ways to waste money, Yeah, exactly, 462 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: like like boats, I likes the worst than gamp agains 463 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: so because you can drown. But I was reading this 464 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: article once, this wonderful old article about Wayne Newton, and 465 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: they said, how uh you know? The big punch line 466 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: was that the guy goes he and he takes with 467 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: a stop watch the measure of the show, and Newton 468 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: would come out with the encore and say, hey, you 469 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: know we we never do this. I never do this, 470 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: but I just love this crowd. I never played this song, 471 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: but you know, I'm just gonna throw all my my, 472 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: my my preferences to the wind here and he comes 473 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: and we never stayed for another song. I'm gonna do 474 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: one more song and he just teases the oars and 475 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: the guy and every show the show exact and exactly 476 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: the same, exactly. The show was exactly like one hour 477 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: and in fourteen minutes. Have you ever seen Way Newton 478 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: show that it was? It was just great. I'm so 479 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: it was phenomenal. Yeah, it probably still is. I haven't 480 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: seen in a few of the idea of the show 481 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: being for the man who you and your partner do 482 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: two and fifty shows a year, regardless of the fact 483 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: that it's in your own space and you know it's 484 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: it's obviously it's a very lucrative thing. Is like, do 485 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: you go out there and there's a menu, like a playlist? 486 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: We do? We do the same show, you do the 487 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: same show. Now we're always writing new stuff. So when 488 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,479 Speaker 1: I say the same show, it's the same show as 489 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: the night before, not the same show as the year before. Um. 490 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: And I love that. You know, there's this thing that 491 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: happens um in the variety arts. You know, I'm just 492 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: old enough. I'm sixty. You're a yes, I am, I am, 493 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: I'm a I am a proud egg man. Um, I'm sixty. 494 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: So when I was learning to juggle at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, 495 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: I could just me the guys who worked Vodeville their 496 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: whole life, right, I could just meet the guys who 497 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: wrote a show when they were seventeen years old and 498 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: we're doing it when they were eighty and hadn't changed 499 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: in it and the joy. Yeah, but there were guys jugglers, 500 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, because juggling it's not like music. You can't 501 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: do a whole different routine with juggling. You learned that trick. 502 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: It takes you six years to learn the trick. That's 503 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: the trick you're gonna be doing for a while. You know. 504 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: You know how to throw a cigarette behind your back, 505 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: catching your mouth and throw a match catching then light them. 506 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: That's what you're gonna do. That's your closer for the 507 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 1: rest of your life. And there's something you're able to 508 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: do after doing something ten thousand times, not a thousand, 509 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: ten thousand times, where you're able to communicate with the 510 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: audience in ways that you don't even know what's giving 511 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,959 Speaker 1: them the information when you first do a gag. You know, 512 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: one of the things you see on Saturday Night Live. 513 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: You know, I always want to say, boy, I'd like 514 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: to see this sketch after they did a ten thousand times, 515 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: as Dyldan said, I want to play guitar without tricks. 516 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: You know, all the tricks should be gone and it 517 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: would just be the material that you're just selling. And 518 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: I just love that, So tell her and I try 519 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: to be very conscientious and there's some stuff that's only 520 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: a few months old, but there's other stuff that we've 521 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: been doing forty years. There's one trick that actually predates 522 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: Penn and Teller that Teller did alone, that he's doing yeah, actually, yeah, 523 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: it's a Judini trip that Teller does, and god damn 524 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: that we're in rehearsal. So we decided to really spruce 525 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: up the show and worked with John Randall is a great, 526 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: great director, great director. We decided to we haven't worked 527 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: with the director ever, and so we're going through stuff 528 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: we've done ten thousand times, and we're going through with 529 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: the director and going through a moment by moment, getting 530 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: us in in the afternoon to do a trick we've 531 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: done ten thousand times. Like, what the funk are you doing? 532 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: We know how to do this, but we get in 533 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: there and we wanted to do it, wanted to dig in. 534 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: And I'm watching tell Her from the wings, you know, 535 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: just the other night, watching him do a trick that 536 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 1: is the first trick I ever saw do. So I 537 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: saw him do this trick when I was first meeting him, 538 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: before there was a Penn and Teller watching him to 539 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: the first trick every so, and I'm watching him going, 540 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, and Tell, here's whatever. He is sixty seven 541 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 1: years old. Now I saw him first do it when 542 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: he was you know, and uh, I'm watching the trick 543 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: and I go, God damn, he's better, you know. And 544 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: we have this thing in our culture that if the 545 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones are doing satisfaction, oh well, they should have 546 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: outgrown that. They should have done this. We've done this 547 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: temporary thing in our culture that forgets the fact that, 548 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: god damn, people can't get good at ship. People get 549 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: really good at stuff. One thing Penn and Teller got 550 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: very good at was shocking David Letterman during their multiple 551 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 1: appearances on his show. Here's an unsuspecting Dave suggesting that 552 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: their act was missing something, you know, the originality and originality. 553 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: But you know, I guess the thing that I missed 554 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: most out of the whole deal was it just didn't 555 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: seem to be an element of a real surprise. They 556 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: just continue to be any surprise with the Then Tell 557 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: are lifted a hat off Dave's desk, casually revealing a 558 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: pile of live cockroaches. This is Alec Baldwin and you're 559 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: listening to here's the thing you can hear all of 560 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: my other interviews with entertainers, politicians, and entrepreneurs in our 561 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: archives at Here's the Thing dot org. Like my conversation 562 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: with Gillette's friend David Blaine, another world famous magician known 563 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: for extreme feats of physical endurance. You're standing on a 564 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: beam for you were up there thirty six hours hours. 565 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: How is that on your body? Well? You know what. 566 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: When I was a little kid in school and I 567 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: get in trouble and the teacher would say, go stand 568 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: in the corner. I's like, come on, this is easy. 569 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: Like you can stand for forty five minutes is supposed 570 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: to be hard, So yeah, and then you can apply 571 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: that so it's like how long can you stand in 572 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: one place? So that's really what it's about. Take a 573 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: listen at Here's the Thing dot org. This is Alec 574 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. In addition 575 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: to his show in Vegas my guest Pen Gillette regularly 576 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: appears in television and film. He's also done some stage acting. 577 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: He had a part in The Exonerated, a play that 578 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: brings to life the stories of a half dozen former 579 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: death row inmates. Pen doesn't strike you as a man 580 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: who was afraid of much. But he says for that project, 581 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: the fear was real. They put me into that with 582 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: Bob Balaban directing it, and I was terrified, you know, 583 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: because I had never done that kind of legitimate acting. 584 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: And I was on stage like me a pharaoh, and 585 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: you know, and uh and Peter Peter Coyote and people 586 00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 1: that can act, you know, and I us loved it. 587 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: I love taking someone else's work. I love thinking about that. 588 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: And a few times I've done little movie things and 589 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: stuff I've just uh, I've just really should do I 590 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: really mean that you should do more. I mean, I 591 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: know that means stopping doing this orphans well, I think 592 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: I can think of a lot of things. Seriously, I 593 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: think a lot of but I I really really like 594 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: Hickey and uh and I did a wonderful but there 595 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: was a wonderful moment when there was they were doing 596 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,239 Speaker 1: that the movie about blacklisting, uh with de Niro, I 597 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: forgot the name of it, but he was having a 598 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: friend um uh. But I was going to play the part. 599 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: I was auditioning for the part of Bunny and I 600 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: got to read with DeNiro. I got that far that 601 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: I get to read this. I'm sitting there in front 602 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,239 Speaker 1: of the camera and we're going through our script and 603 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: he's just kind of mumbling through it. He's not doing anything, 604 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: you know, he's just that I'm going on, this is 605 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: no big deal with DeNiro up reading my part, and 606 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,719 Speaker 1: I'm going, Wow, I'm doing a really good job here. 607 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: I mean, even even compared to the near I'm doing 608 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: really good. And then there comes to the moment where 609 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: he has to grab his friend who sold him out 610 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: to the h to the blacklisted him. You know, who 611 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: is me, who's a college friend, and like, hug me 612 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: and grab me and do this, And all of a sudden, 613 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: I saw really world class acting like six inches away 614 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,239 Speaker 1: from my face, and I was like, I couldn't even 615 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: stay at the scene. It was like, whoa, you're good. 616 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: And it was just I would love to have the 617 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: experience of somebody, you know, within a scene because I'm 618 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: always addressing the audience and it's so interesting to me 619 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: when you see really really good actors how they get 620 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: into that, get into that moment, you know, and that thing. 621 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: But so for you, you're you're committed to do this 622 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: for a while. The Vegas thing, Yeah, you know when whenever, 623 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: whenever I can find time, you know, whenever I can 624 00:32:58,520 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: find a week or two. I you know, it was 625 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: like tell her flies back and forth the Chicago to 626 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: direct The Tempest, and I just finished up this movie 627 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: that I crowdfunded, that I that I rived in. It's 628 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: a movie called Director's Cut, and it's a crazy, crazy movie. 629 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: H the idea of the movie. I was really fascinated 630 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: by by the idea that information is out there. Information 631 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: is out there, so now when you make a movie, 632 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: it all gets put into hard drives and it's on 633 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: sharers and people can get it. So I postulated a 634 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: guy who was obsessed with an actress, obsessed with her, 635 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: and the movie was being crowdfunded, and crowdfunded his way 636 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: onto the set and then got the codes to get 637 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: all the outtakes from the movie and then kidnaps her 638 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: and then uses all the footage to make his own 639 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: movie that tells his own story with him as the star. 640 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: So we had Missy Pyle who says, like the sequel 641 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: to Human Centipede, Yeah, well yeah, it's not as sick 642 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: as that, well, not as sexually sick, but intellectually meta 643 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: of a seque, very very many and uh, and uh, 644 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: I play Uh, I play Herbert. There's a guy who 645 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: does this and who's on the on the set, and 646 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: then I get to have the scenes where the two 647 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: men who are acting in it are doing a scene 648 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: with her, but she's in my basement. So I've tried 649 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: to match the scene to match that. So it's all 650 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: about continuity and changing that and all about movie making. 651 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: You and I should do a horror movie, a really 652 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: low something really tawd me and disgusting, and yeah, well, 653 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: cons anything, anything, anything, anything I could do to I'll 654 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: make a couple of atheists, no catholic and an atheist atheist, 655 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: and we'll get someone to do for you, like, yeah, 656 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: you can, you can do even even the fact that 657 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: you're doing this like this, I'll work with you a 658 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: little bit. It's not that's cool, Yeah, exactly. And now 659 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: the tell me what is movie night? You're a movie fan? 660 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: What's movie nights? Um, Tuesday nights? After my show, people 661 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: come over and we watch in Vegas over my house. 662 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: You have a killer screening room. Yeah, and we have 663 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: about Sometimes people come over love movies and well, yes, 664 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: but this is not showing the love of movies. This 665 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: is just thirty people screaming, and people think when they 666 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: come over that it's going to be witty. It's not witty, 667 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: simply obscenity. It's simply spewing out the bile from the week. 668 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: Is a group it's a group encounter sits mock the 669 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: movie much more than more than. And now we're in 670 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: the middle of we're watching every season of and I 671 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: am so trying to convince Keefer to come by one 672 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: night because I would love to have him there. Yes, 673 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: how how tall are you? Exactly came? You know, juste 674 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: we we And it's just it's just screaming. He's just 675 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: gonna get because you know, I tend to because I 676 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: have my children are nine and ten years old, and 677 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: because I do so many shows and as so much 678 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: stuff going on, I really don't get a chance to 679 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: hang out with friends. So this is my two hours 680 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: a week. That just it's what what's something? Yeah, exactly 681 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 1: what some guys to do with poker. It's just it's 682 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: just yelling. So when did you become this arbiter of bullshit? 683 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: When did? When? Did it? It? Just the things that 684 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: you strike you as bullshit, that's whatever word you want 685 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: to use. This genuous or false, whatever it sat in 686 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: your craw how long before you decided you didn't do 687 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: a TV show out of this? We we have always 688 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: wanted to do a skeptical TV show always, and we 689 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: started pitching that in the eighties. Tell it to Yeah 690 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: and we're because we're both. You know, there's two very 691 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: strong schools in magic. There's the Houdini school, which is 692 00:36:54,920 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: the we are or as Robert Houdan said, we are 693 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: actors playing the parts of magicians. Uh. It also starts 694 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: with the sixteenth century the Discovery of Witchcraft, which is 695 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: the first book written that says this stuff is fake, 696 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: we are doing tricks. There's that whole school that believes 697 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: that the magician is someone who helps us study how 698 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: we ascertain truth. In other words, I've studied trickery, so 699 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: let's talk about the truth. Then there's a whole other school, 700 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: which is you know David Blaine, for instance, who's a 701 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: friend of mine and who we get along with. Well, 702 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: we have a very strong philosophical disagreement. He believes that 703 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: the magician's job is to distort reality, that you must 704 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: leave his show thinking things that aren't true. He believes 705 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: that strongly and can make a very coaching argument for it, 706 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: which I disagree with, but I know I like them. Um, 707 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: there's those two schools, and tell him I've always been 708 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: strongly in the Houdini amazing Randy camp on that Ben ps, 709 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: I don't see a David Blaine theater in a Vegy yes, 710 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: by the way, So I don't know I'm putting my 711 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: money on, although we had him on the show and 712 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: he's he's great, he's wonderful. He's a great, great magician 713 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,240 Speaker 1: and and a great guy. Um, So we've been pushing 714 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: this and I would go in and say, the nuts 715 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: always have the passion and the scientists always have this 716 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: low key, measured way. What we will give you in 717 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: bullshit is we will do the best to give you 718 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: the scientific point of view, done with the passion of 719 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: a nut. And I'm willing to give you all that 720 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: passion and rip my heart open and be wrong and 721 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: go off half cocked. But I'm going to do it 722 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: for the other side, and and the and the topics 723 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: came to you, like what was the first show. The 724 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: first show is very complex because the first show was 725 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: about talking to the dead, and we conceived the show 726 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: to attack you know John Edward and those people who 727 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: say they can communicate with the dead. And I conceived 728 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 1: it intellectually, and then while thinking about it, my mom 729 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: died at the age of ninety in two thousand and 730 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 1: we started doing the show in two thousand one, and 731 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: this happened. Forgive me for only in this one way 732 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 1: comparing myself to Hudini. But Udini had this intellectual dislike 733 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: for people who claimed to talk to the dead. And 734 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 1: it was a lot of Houdini's posturing, I do better 735 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: tricks than them. I do tricks no one can figure 736 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 1: out their tricks. Aren't that good? And then his mom 737 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: dies and Um, Arthur Conan Doyle Ryla Holmes, writer was 738 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: a big believer in in spiritualist. Judini wanted to be 739 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 1: around him because Udini um was the son of a rabbi. 740 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,879 Speaker 1: But uh, but it was not well educated, and Arthur 741 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: Conan Doyle was very respected and very well educated. And 742 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: Udini was thrilled to be traveling in that circle. He 743 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: was cheap carney trash, traveling the circle of the intellectuals. 744 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: He loved Eric Yeah, and his mother. Judini's mother died 745 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: and Arthur Conan Doyle's wife did automatic writing, okay, which 746 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 1: was you would just without thinking, you would just write, 747 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: and it was the spirits talking through you. And Arthur 748 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: Conan Doyle said, well, you know you miss your mom 749 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: so much, because Judini was another similarity, a mama's boy, 750 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: which I was. I was very close to my mom 751 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: and Houdini, you know, okay, it's a little dangerous, you're 752 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,800 Speaker 1: gonna talk to my mom, but okay. So his wife 753 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: sat down and then did automatic writing, and at the 754 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,879 Speaker 1: top of the page, I would have given the bay 755 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: to be there was across and the first words were 756 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,439 Speaker 1: dear Harry, and then it went on. Now, what Arthur 757 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: Kona and his wife didn't know was that his mother 758 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: didn't speak English. He was born in Budapest. He claimed 759 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: to be from Appleton, Wisconsin. He was actually born in Budapest. 760 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: He was the son of a rabbi. Across at the top, 761 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: probably not right, and his mother never once called him Harry, 762 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: that was his stage name. So Judini felt what it 763 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: feels like to have your image of someone you love distorted. 764 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: And Houdini went ape ship and then the second half 765 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: of his career was all busting these people. And so 766 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: we were going to do talking to the dead, and 767 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: I we did that show, uh, you know, within a 768 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: year of my mom dying, And so it was very 769 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: very passionate because the point that people don't make is 770 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: a lot of times the people that do this communication 771 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: with the dead, they say that they're bringing solace to people. 772 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: The most valuable thing I have in my life is 773 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: the memories of my family, my mom and dad, also 774 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: my children. The new memories I'm making, but let's let's 775 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: go from the past, the memories of my mom and dad. 776 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: If I come to you grief stricken about my mom 777 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: and you claim that you're communicating with her, and then 778 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: we have some sort of communication, what you have done 779 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: you can call it bringing solace, but you and also 780 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: see it as distorting my memory. You've now said something 781 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: that she never said. And I cannot think of a 782 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 1: crueler thing. In order to get power and make money, 783 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: you're doing this, and it's actually the most dis Yeah, 784 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: and it's it's it's horrible. I am naturally not cynical, 785 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: and when you're naturally not cynical, you bump into this 786 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: stuff all the time. I tend to, uh, I tend 787 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: to be skeptical, but not cynical, and people always put 788 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 1: those together, and they are very different emotional states. You know, 789 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: Skepticism is is cold and cynicism is hot. You know. 790 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: Cynicism is, uh, everybody's full of ship, everybody's lying to us, 791 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: everybody's doing this. Skepticism is let's get to the truth. 792 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: And those are two very different things. You know. When 793 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: I talked to Bill Maher about this, because Bill Moore 794 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: is proudly cynical and I am proudly skeptical, and we 795 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,880 Speaker 1: are different things. It's a very different reactions. And and 796 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: I think that if you get to Pollyanna and I 797 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,359 Speaker 1: am very Pollyanna, I am much too optimistic. I'm much 798 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: too straightforward. It's one of the things you get, you 799 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: get with a with a perfect You know, everybody in 800 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: show business complains I'm from a dysfunctional family. I drop 801 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,959 Speaker 1: out of those conversations. You know, my my dad never 802 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: got the memo that dad's supposed to give you conditional love. 803 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: He never got that. He was just unconditional love and 804 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: supportive and even thinks he didn't understand. My parents tried, 805 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: from the time I was seventeen until the day they died, 806 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: tried to get me to cut my hair. And the 807 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: really funny part of it was that this boy, this 808 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: baby laugh is my mother when she was in her 809 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,840 Speaker 1: eighties and I was in my forties. My mother actually said, 810 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: I just love this moment. My mom sitting there and 811 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,439 Speaker 1: she goes, you know, Pen, when you were a young man, 812 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: having the long hair was fine. But now that you're older, 813 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: I mean you're older than middle aged and you have 814 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: some gray in there. You need to get your hair cut. 815 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,839 Speaker 1: And I said, Mom, this is how far we've come. 816 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: We've now come to the point where now it was 817 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,280 Speaker 1: okay when I was young, that never happened because every 818 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: single time she saw me, that battle went on. But 819 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: I want to say, and I want to say this 820 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 1: proudly to the world, that before my mother died, I 821 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: went out one evening when visiting her and we remembered 822 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: to get milk on the way home, something I had 823 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: never done my entire life before. As we sign up, 824 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: I know what play you and I should do. What's 825 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: that We're gonna do a play together? We're gonna do Beckett. 826 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 1: I would nothing. I would like nothing. Sure, I mean 827 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: we made bomb, made bomb, but we do it for us? Oh, 828 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: I would I would I would do it for us, 829 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: I would do it for I would. Do you have 830 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: anything we set that up, Glenn look. Clan says yes. 831 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: Clan says yes. If you missed Penn and Teller during 832 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: their sick week run on Broadway this summer, you can 833 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: catch them in Vegas by Alec Baldwin. And this is 834 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:29,320 Speaker 1: here's the thing. M