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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm Guy Johnson taking

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Speaker 1: you here to the air Bus headquarters in to Lose, France,

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Speaker 1: where cutting out to technology is a day to day activity.

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Speaker 1: We're at the Airbus summits where we're discussing everything from

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Speaker 1: sustainability to hydrogen to what happens with the next generation

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Speaker 1: of aircraft and the technology that is going to go

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Speaker 1: into them.

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Speaker 2: And I have the great.

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Speaker 1: Pleasure of being joined here by Gilm Fourie, the CEO

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Speaker 1: of Airbus. Gilm fantastic to be with you here at

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Speaker 1: this summit at the Airbus is home here in to

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Speaker 1: Lose the summit, we're asked at the moment that the

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Speaker 1: big focus is sustainability. A lot of technology is currently

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Speaker 1: being pushed into this space as we try and make

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Speaker 1: aviation technology. The big technology that we're talking about is

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Speaker 1: sustainable aviation fuel that's going to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: the heavy lifting, but hydrogen and all kinds of other

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Speaker 1: technologies beckon in the future.

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Speaker 2: The target we have right now is.

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Speaker 1: To make aviation net zero carbon by twenty fifty.

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Speaker 2: Is that still achievable?

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Speaker 3: It remains the target, and there are plenty of reasons

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Speaker 3: to believe that it can be achieved.

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Speaker 4: There are also some challenges.

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Speaker 3: One of the reasons we have the summit, the ABBE Summit,

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Speaker 3: is to discuss those topics, to understand better as a problem,

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Speaker 3: what goes well, what needs to be done differently. At

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Speaker 3: abbaswill remain committed to the twenty to fifty objective of

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Speaker 3: carbon neutrality. That's what the industry has agreed together, and

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Speaker 3: tomorrow we will be sharing a lot of good news

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Speaker 3: on the progress. We know that on the sustainableviation fuel

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Speaker 3: that's a challenge and we need to do more work

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Speaker 3: on it.

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Speaker 1: Is it going to be possible with Donald Trump in

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Speaker 1: the White House? He doesn't seem to see the United

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Speaker 1: States as the forefront of green technology. The fact is

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Speaker 1: going in the opposite direction. Can twenty fifty be achieved

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Speaker 1: with Donald Trump in the White House?

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Speaker 3: Well, the progress we need to make to decarbonize aviation

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Speaker 3: by twenty to fifty relies on different pearans. Is the planes,

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Speaker 3: the plane themselves, that's what we're doing. And for planes,

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Speaker 3: competitiveness means fuel efficiency and fuel efficiency means sustainability. So

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Speaker 3: the two objective are aline. I say, economy and ecology

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Speaker 3: are aline. So we'll keep going, and airlines will continue

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Speaker 3: to buy, preferably planes that burn less fuel, whatever the fuel.

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Speaker 3: For the development of stuff, it's a bigger challenge. It's

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Speaker 3: important to have unity. We need a global level playing

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Speaker 3: field on suff and obviously we need to understand better

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Speaker 3: what did we mean for the US and to what

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Speaker 3: extent the others will keep going at the same pace.

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Speaker 2: What should you go to the line?

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Speaker 4: Well, anyway, we.

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Speaker 3: See different dynamics in different places of the world. Europe

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Speaker 3: has gone quite alone on the fit for fifty five,

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Speaker 3: putting mandates on the use of staff.

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Speaker 4: It's a different way.

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Speaker 3: It was already a different way with the previous US

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Speaker 3: administration with IRA and subsidies for SAFF and China is

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Speaker 3: going also another way. That's one of the problems. We

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Speaker 3: need this to be unified.

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Speaker 2: It just came back from China.

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Speaker 1: What is what kind of technology are they going to

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Speaker 1: once again leapfrog in the way that we've seen maybe

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Speaker 1: them doing in electric cars.

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Speaker 3: I think they are really serious on the transition. They're

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Speaker 3: really serious on decurbanized energy. From the use of solar,

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Speaker 3: of winds, of nuclear. They grow I think half or

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Speaker 3: two thirds of the additional capacity of decurbanized energy last

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Speaker 3: year was coming from China, so they're really moving forward at.

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Speaker 4: The right pace.

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Speaker 3: And yes, there is a likelihood that they would go

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Speaker 3: faster than others on decurbonized technologies with the risk that

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Speaker 3: we would see in adiation in fuels what we see

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Speaker 3: today in electric car. So we're really taking themselves, but

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Speaker 3: theres also a partner we can rely on for the

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Speaker 3: development of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about what is happening here

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Speaker 1: in Europe. It seems at the moment security is more

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Speaker 1: important to Europe than sustainability. Do you see it that way?

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Speaker 1: Is that how it is developing. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: more important.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a precon You need security to have prosperity,

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Speaker 3: and you need prosperity to fund your climate transition and

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Speaker 3: your decurbanization. So security comes first, and that's what we

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Speaker 3: are looking and what we're seeing in Europe. I don't

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Speaker 3: think there is a competition between the different investments, at

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Speaker 3: least at the moment, at least for ABBUS. We have

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Speaker 3: different businesses, we have a strong balance sheet to fund

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Speaker 3: the different investments. But yes, there is more that we'll

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Speaker 3: go to space, to defense than it was in the past,

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Speaker 3: and that's an opportunity for us because we think it's

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Speaker 3: important for the security of Europe.

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Speaker 1: You talk about space, one of the key piece is

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Speaker 1: the technology that Europe is relying on at the moment,

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Speaker 1: is being used heavily in Ukraine is obviously starlk. How

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Speaker 1: quickly can Europe replicate something similar to what we say

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Speaker 1: with Starlin?

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Speaker 3: Starlink is clearly a breakthrough. The constellation is already large

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Speaker 3: in the air. We have consulation in Europe that are

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Speaker 3: flying already, but they are much smaller. So we need

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Speaker 3: a demand at scale. We need countries to come together

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Speaker 3: with a common need and we need the stry to

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Speaker 3: come together to supply. So Europe needs scale. In terms

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Speaker 3: of technologies. We have very similar technologies, but it needs

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Speaker 3: to go into a project at scale. How quickly can

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Speaker 3: you do well, it's going to take a bit of time.

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Speaker 3: We're moving as fast as we can. We have indicated

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Speaker 3: that we are in discussions with Leonardo, our friends from

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Speaker 3: Leonardo and Tales to create a joint company for satellite manufacturing.

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Speaker 1: Can I think about that as an airbus of space?

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Speaker 1: Is that what we look we're talking about?

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Speaker 4: It is an ambus of space.

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Speaker 3: It is a joint venture between companies, so that's probably

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Speaker 3: a bit different, But.

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Speaker 4: That's creating the scale in Europe to be able to

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Speaker 4: be competitive on a global scale.

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Speaker 2: Can you do the same thing in defense?

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Speaker 4: It has to be done.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be probably more difficult because the sovereignty

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Speaker 3: for security and defense it's at the level of nations

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Speaker 3: of countries, and we need countries to come together with

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Speaker 3: common projects to create that scale and then having the

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Speaker 3: industry serving.

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Speaker 4: These project that scale.

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Speaker 3: But we're too fragmented in defense in Europe. That's very

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Speaker 3: clearly written in the Hage Report. There's something that is

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Speaker 3: now acknowledged. We need to find those solutions.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of how you're thinking about how you

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Speaker 1: develop air bus from here, over the last few years

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Speaker 1: it has been civil focused. Do you see space defense

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Speaker 1: becoming similar scale arms of air bus? People have often

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Speaker 1: talked about defense big subscale at air bus. Is that

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Speaker 1: going to be the future? Is the defense arm going

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Speaker 1: to be subscale? Is space going to be subscale? How

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Speaker 1: quickly can you get it to scale and will it

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Speaker 1: be of something similar to what we see behind us

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Speaker 1: in the civil side.

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Speaker 3: We are not only an airbus in commercial. We're also

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Speaker 3: an Abbus in defense and in helicopters. We have created

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Speaker 3: the scaling helicopters already in the past, and we are

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Speaker 3: the number one helicopter manufacturer in the world by a

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Speaker 3: turnover and by number of helicopters.

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Speaker 4: That's something we are doing in.

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Speaker 3: Other areas of business than commercial. Yes, we are also

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Speaker 3: an Airbus in defense with projects like the Eurofighter, with

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Speaker 3: project like the Aphon of Them, where European countries partner

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Speaker 3: together to create a product that is the best in

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Speaker 3: the world at the moment. But we need more of this,

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Speaker 3: and it is the DNA of Airbus to bring collaboration,

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Speaker 3: to bring partnerships and to create a project that at

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Speaker 3: the right scale and therefore the right scale of investments

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Speaker 3: and therefore the right competitiveness.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Donald Trump is bringing Europe together? Do

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Speaker 1: you think it's going to euro realise on the crisis?

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Speaker 1: Is this a big enough crisis to bring up?

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Speaker 3: Europe is making progress through crises. We are challenged by

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Speaker 3: a number of things changing in the world. The fact

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Speaker 3: that Europe needs to take security and defense in its

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Speaker 3: own hands. It's something that in my view really makes sense,

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Speaker 3: and that's what Europe is doing under a number of

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Speaker 3: pressure points.

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Speaker 4: Ukraine is one of them.

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Speaker 3: What's happening in Ukraine and also what Donald Trepp points

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Speaker 3: to achieve is another quession point on Europe to take

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Speaker 3: its destiny in its hands.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump talks about his favorite word's been terrorists. What

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Speaker 1: do you expect in terms of tens How already is

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Speaker 1: it impacting airbus? The aircraft behind the eight three twenty

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Speaker 1: one XLR comes from around the world. We were joking

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Speaker 1: earlier that now it's comes from France. The engines come

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Speaker 1: from America and France. The aircraft is an aircraft of

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Speaker 1: the world. But that creates vulnerability. How are you thinking

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Speaker 1: about tars What is the impact being already?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's an important point for industry. We add tariffs

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Speaker 3: on aircraft four to five years ago between the US

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Speaker 3: and Europe and has been a lose lose and therefore

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Speaker 3: we had a ceasefire in twenty twenty one. And I

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Speaker 3: think this experience has been interesting in showing that for

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Speaker 3: a sort of North Atlantic ecosystem, both sides of the

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Speaker 3: Atlantic does only lose lose in putting tariffs. We have

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Speaker 3: not heard about tariffs on aviation at the moment on aerospace.

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Speaker 4: I think that's repairing. I think that's a good sign.

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Speaker 3: There's nothing more I would say really to prepare them

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Speaker 3: to communicate to Exchange to explain we have a lot

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Speaker 3: of infrastructure and manufacturing capabilities assembly line in the US.

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Speaker 3: We're procuring from the US, we're selling to the US,

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Speaker 3: and the US manufacturers are doing the same with Europe.

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Speaker 4: So tariffs in the middle of.

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Speaker 3: The Atlantic would really be a big burden for both sides,

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Speaker 3: and maybe that would be even tougher for the US manufacturers.

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Speaker 1: Have you been putting extra resources into the Alabama parts?

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Speaker 2: Have you been stockpiling?

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Speaker 1: Have you been There's no kind of preparations or anything

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Speaker 1: that you have been taking on thus far in order

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Speaker 1: to get ready for something that could be coming.

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Speaker 3: No, we keep doing what we've been doing so far,

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Speaker 3: relying on Alabama. Indeed, that's a plant where we have

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Speaker 3: a three final assembly line. One is not yet delivering planes,

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Speaker 3: but the two others are. So we are copuring from

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Speaker 3: everywhere around the world assembling there in the US with

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Speaker 3: the US jobs two.

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Speaker 4: US airlines as well.

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Speaker 3: So I think we are key to the US ecosystem,

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Speaker 3: to the Vision ecosystem, and we think that plays a.

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Speaker 4: Big role in how tariffs are targeted.

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Speaker 2: Okay, final quick question.

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Speaker 1: You sits on actually the Business Council in America. You

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Speaker 1: speak to CEOs there, What message do you take to

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Speaker 1: them from Europe? What is the message that should be

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Speaker 1: coming to a US business and b the US administration.

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Speaker 3: Well, at the moment, I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: questioning of what where all this is going, what it

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Speaker 3: will mean for each industry since a bit and wait

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Speaker 3: and c mode, to understand better for how long tariffs

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Speaker 3: could come, who will be impacted, how to respond to

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Speaker 3: the tariffs if any. As I told you, we are

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Speaker 3: not directly targeted with tariffs at the moment, but indeed

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Speaker 3: there is a lot of questioning and to understand better

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Speaker 3: what is changing and how to adapt. We are in

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Speaker 3: the world that is fast changing and it's a lot

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Speaker 3: about adapting to those changes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great to be here to Louise, thank you

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Speaker 1: for so much, for you for inviting us here to

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Speaker 1: have us as headquarters.

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Speaker 2: In Toulouse in France. Kimfoury, the CEO of of US