1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Noel as 5 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: a spirit conduit for Matt, who usually starts the show 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: but as a way on adventures and will return shortly. 7 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer, uh, 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: Paul the necromancer Decant. Most importantly, you are here, You 9 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: are you, and that makes this stuff they don't want 10 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: you to know. You know, Ben, I thought the Necronomicon 11 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: was real until you told me otherwise last time we 12 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: have that conversation. Right, this is going to be an 13 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: episode that those of you who enjoyed our Grimoise episode 14 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: will find uh particularly fascinating. I love that you mentioned 15 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: the Necronomicon at the top of the show, Nol, because 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: for everyone listening, if you're a fan of horror movies, 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: you're intimately familiar with that old trope of the Cursed 18 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: Book and Lovecraft's Necronomicon. Howard Philip Lovecraft, Uh he he 19 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: made this book. It's a perfect example of what we're 20 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: talking about because for years and years and years after 21 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: he admittedly wrote it in a work of fiction, as 22 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: a work of fiction mentioned to other fictional stories. People 23 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: liked it enough that they just started saying, let's all 24 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: agree that it's real. Yeah, I mean, I think my 25 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: thing is it just has become such a stand in 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: for like cursed books. Like you said, I almost thought 27 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: it was more of a word than a specific volume, 28 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: like calling something a necronomicon or a grimoire, you know, 29 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: that was what my brand did. Like how nowadays, instead 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: of saying search the Internet, we just say Google regardless 31 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: of which search or is he rocks for copy. That's 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 1: that's an interesting comparison. Now, the Necronomicon maybe the most 33 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: widely known fictional book of magic in the Western world, 34 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 1: but there are other ones too, you know. On a 35 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: lighter note, there's The spell Book in Disney's Focus Focus, 36 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: which I recently rewatched and stand by it is an 37 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: enjoyable movie, if not a film. Today, these books are 38 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: almost universally thought of as little more than clever bits 39 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: of fiction, maybe an extra detail added to flesh out 40 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: a fictional world. But as we explored in the previous 41 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: video and audio episodes on grim Wise, these books were 42 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: real things. They were physical, tangible books in the real world. 43 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: They were often mistakenly or purposefully misattributed to other authors. 44 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: There are multiple counterfeit versions, and numerous books took the 45 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: same name or something very much like it to increase 46 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: their occult street read. But the books themselves were real, 47 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: and in many many cases, various people throughout the centuries 48 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 1: would read these books and attempt the experiments or rituals 49 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: outlined in those tomes. Today's episode is about one of 50 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: the most famous grim Wise in existence, the book or 51 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: slash books known as The Key of Solomon. We're going 52 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: to delve into the fact and fiction surrounding this book 53 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: with one other huge question that we'll get to near 54 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: the end. What is this supposed to do and does 55 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: it actually work? So here are the facts. The Key 56 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: of Solomon is kind of it is this sort of 57 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: an umbrella term that is assigned to several different books. 58 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: And there's a legend that says the book was originally 59 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: created by the biblical king Solomon of mining mining fame. Yeah, 60 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: the mine king Solomon's mind, right, he had a seal, 61 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: he made a temple. Yeah, according to you'll hear it 62 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: being phrased as a uh something mentioned in just Judeo 63 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: Christian beliefs, but mention of King Solomon also occurs in 64 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: holy books of the Bahai and also in the Koran. 65 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: According to these legends, these stories, the man known as 66 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: King Solomon was the son of the famous Goliath slaying David, 67 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: who went on Solomon did went on to become the 68 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: ruler of Israel and approximately nine sixty seven b c. E. 69 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: And he was ruling this enormous kingdom that extended from 70 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: the Euphrates in the north to Egypt in the south. 71 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: And in the religious text he is presented as one 72 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: of the wisest men in the history of civilization. He's 73 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: kind of and this is not a one to one 74 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: comparison religious scholars in the audience, He's kind of a 75 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: Tony Stark. He's a genius inventor, he's a ladies man, 76 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: a super rich. He's super rich, exact and potentially practices 77 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: the dark arts. And God appeared to him in a 78 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: dream during the early days of his of his reign, 79 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: and he said, Solomon, you can have whatever you desire 80 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: because you act, you know how to worship me, and 81 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: you're honoring me in the ways and the methods. Uh 82 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: that your father David instructed you too. And when we 83 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: say this guy is clever, we're drawing on numerous anecdotes 84 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: and the most famous one, which I'm I think everybody 85 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: has heard. Whether or not you are religious, and whether 86 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: or not you're that familiar with Western religion, you've probably 87 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: heard the story of the baby right where uh, he 88 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: is a judge and these two women come to his 89 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: court and they have a baby, and both both of 90 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: these people say that is my child. I misspoke as well. 91 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: Solomon is not known for practicing any dark arts, but 92 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: there are things that he codified and committed to text 93 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: that were used as sort of a lexicon by others 94 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: that practiced said dark arts is that you know. And 95 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: I think the term dark art too, is something that 96 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: undergoes an evolution, because according to legend, he was practicing 97 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: some stuff, but later it would be called dark arts 98 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: right by church authorities. So you're spot on, spot on. 99 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: But back to these back to these women. These are 100 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: the days before DNA testing, obviously, so they say this 101 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: is my kid. This lady's line, and the other lady says, no, 102 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: this person's line. This is truly my child, and Solomon's 103 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: solution was to really double down on this. He said, okay, 104 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: you've both convinced me in your own way. Tell you what, 105 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 1: you just just cut the baby in half, be done 106 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: with it. And then one woman was prepared to accept 107 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: the decision, but the other one begged King Solomon, please, 108 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: it is my child, but give it to this other woman. 109 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: I don't want the baby to die. Classic trope and 110 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: sci Fi when you have clones, you know, and to 111 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: see which one or like the evil double or whatever, 112 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: to see which one is the real the real one 113 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: sort of, I don't know it was. Sci Fi draws 114 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: a lot from religion, that's true, earlier religion, so of 115 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: course we know how. We know how Solomon acted next 116 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: once he saw one lady giving up the baby to 117 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: spair it's life. Yeah, I guess what I'm getting at 118 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: with like that. If there's an evil twin, you can 119 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: usually tell in sci Fi who's the real one, because 120 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: the real one will take a bullet for his lady 121 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: love or something, while the evil one will, you know, 122 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: behave more less chivalrously right right, And in the case 123 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: of Solomon, he says, okay, well, you have proven to 124 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: me that you are the true mothers, so that's obviously 125 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: your child. Again. According to legend, people from surrounding nations 126 00:07:55,440 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: came to hear Solomon's wisdom. He composed three thousand prov herbs, 127 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: one thousand and five songs, He wrote the Song of Songs, 128 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: the Book of Proverbs, and other religious works. In the 129 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: Jewish tradition, he has thought to be the builder of 130 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: the First Temple in Jerusalem and the last ruler of 131 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Israel before it was divided into the 132 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom of Judah. And in 133 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: the tradition concerning the Key of Solomon, or also in 134 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: the Lesser Key of Solomon, which will will have to 135 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: mention because it's fascinating, the king used his powers, including 136 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: a special seal and his magic ring to summon and 137 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: bind spirits. And it was these spirits that were his 138 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: workforce for the First Temple. So going back to dark arts, 139 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, centuries later, summoning spirits and spirits of the 140 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: dead to literally do your dirty work or at least, 141 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, the work that you don't feel like doing 142 00:08:53,920 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: because masonry breaking. Yeah, So this these are the uh 143 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: claims about this individual, and we can get into those 144 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: a little bit later. We want to set that up 145 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: and bracket it. But now we got to talk about 146 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: what's actually in this book, because the key of Solomon is, 147 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: as you said, noel an umbrella term for multiple different 148 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: translations for multiple I don't know, differing interpretations of the text. 149 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: The book itself is composed of an introduction and then 150 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: like two smaller books, and the introduction is a story 151 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: about how the book allegedly came to be. So in 152 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: the introduction to the book, readers get a story about 153 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: the creation of said text. Solomon writes the book for 154 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: his son Rio Bohm and tells his son to hide 155 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: the book in a sepul cor upon Solomon's dead. What's 156 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: a sepal car ban? That's like a kind of like 157 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: a it's like a yeah, yeah. It's like a two 158 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: uh small room usually built a stone or cut into rock, 159 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: where you put a dead body or a book, or 160 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: a dead body with a book. It's a bonus could 161 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: be clutching it. So what happens next, well next, and 162 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: by next I mean years and years later. Um. Babylonian 163 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: philosophers find the text while they're repairing Solomon's tomb, Solomon 164 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: himself his tomb. No one can understand the text, so 165 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: they pray to God for understanding, and so lo and behold, 166 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: an angel appears in grants one of the philosophers the 167 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: ability to read the text, after he swears that he 168 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: will keep it safe and hidden from the unworthy and 169 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: the wicked. This is obviously, of course, this is legend, 170 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: has it? Yes, legend has it? As this story goes, yeah, 171 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: this uh. This legend says that the philosopher accepts the 172 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: bargain and learns these ancient secrets, and then to keep 173 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: his word to these divine forces, this philosopher places a 174 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: spell on the book, or what they call conjuration, making 175 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: it so that even if you manage to read it, 176 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: if you are unworthy, unpious, you're unwise, you don't obey God, 177 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: or you don't fear God. You can do every single 178 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: ritual and here to the letter and it just won't work. 179 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: Which is very clever. Isn't it interesting to you how 180 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: the term philosopher used to mean much more of a 181 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: almost wizardly type, like I think even one of the 182 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: Harry Potter books in the in the British printing it's 183 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: called the Philosopher's stone, and then the u s it's 184 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: called the Sorcerer's stone. So they're kind of like a 185 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: one to one thing, and the philosopher's don't being alchemical exactly. Yeah, 186 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: but now when we think of philosophers, we just think 187 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: of high minded academics that, you know. Yeah, and either 188 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: way it could be either way it could apply because 189 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: it just means lover of wisdom that but you're absolutely right. 190 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: A lot of times people who were practicing what we 191 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: would think of as very esoteric rituals and belief systems 192 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: were considered philosophers. Right, So this is this is the intro. 193 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: And one thing that's incredibly clever about this introduction is 194 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: that it already bakes in a defense mechanism for people 195 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: who say the book is fake or it doesn't work. 196 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: It puts the blame for a lack of success in 197 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: these rituals, not on the book itself, not on the 198 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: nature of magic, but on the audience, the reader, the practitioner. 199 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: If you didn't manage to turn invisible, then it's not 200 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: because that's impossible. It's because you were unworthy, or you're unwise, 201 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: or you didn't fear God, which will come into play later. 202 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: But let's let's get into the actual substance of the book, 203 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: the text itself, the Key of Solomon. Should we take 204 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: a lot quickie break first, then fantastic idea we have returned. 205 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: As we said earlier, the book is divided into two sections. 206 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: In book one, you'll learn an astonishing amount of conjurations, curses, 207 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: invocations meant to summon and bind spirits. Now we mentioned 208 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: spirits before, let's outline let's clarify this a little bit. 209 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: Spirits in this sense could be the ghost of dead 210 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: human beings or other worldly creatures like angels or demons, 211 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: and in many cases, love of anthropologists will tell you 212 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: these and they're correct. Many of these things presented as 213 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 1: demons are built off of earlier what we would call 214 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: pagan myths or pagan gods, like the God of Lightning 215 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: by all who became by ale. And this is very 216 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: apparent in some books that which we get to in 217 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: a moment, and some books that came after The Key 218 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: of Solomon that actually named these demons. The first book, 219 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: in addition to these descriptions, contained spells, which are called 220 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: operations or experiments. Very mathematical sounding and they kill you 221 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: kind of dig in right, right. So the idea is 222 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: one one series of operations or experiments can turn the 223 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: practitioner invisible, or spells to make people like you or 224 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: fall in love with you, to help you find stolen 225 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: or lost items. So there's some practical stuff in there, 226 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: and that's just the first book. In book two, um, 227 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: he gets into detailing a lot of purification rituals that 228 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: a practitioner of philosophy must undertake, things like the kinds 229 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: of clothing they're supposed to wear. Um, the spell cast 230 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: or operator, you know, that was the earliest version of 231 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: that job, an operator, uh, And it was also called 232 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: an exorcist in different translation. So, like you say, Ben, 233 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: the translation can make a lot of difference in the 234 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: way we look at that particular activity or you know 235 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: role um, and it's different. You know, how what what 236 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: what how they should go about constructing the various tools 237 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: that they need to do the rituals, and what kinds 238 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: of animals should be sacrificed, along with exactly how to 239 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: go about sacrificing them. With one example here from chapter 240 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: fourteen of that book. It's on the chapter fourteen is 241 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: of the pen ink and colors, just to show you 242 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: how weird this gets, or how it's may seem weird 243 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: to us, now how specific it gets. All things employed 244 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: for writing, etcetera. In this art should be prepared in 245 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: the following manner. I'm gonna do a voice. Thou shalt 246 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: take a male gooseling from which thou shalt pluck the 247 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: third feather of the right wing, and didn't pluck it it, 248 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: thou shalt say, aberma, happily lie sami ted. Don't I 249 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: artabas si? Ever, I don't I banished from this pen 250 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: all deceit and narrow, so that it may be a 251 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: virtue and efficacy to write all that I desire. A 252 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: bed I deny is is Hebrew? Yeah, denies like a prayer, 253 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: I believe. Yeah, these are names in vacations. I just 254 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: remember it from choir from when I was a kid. 255 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: It's it's a very beautiful. Yes, I'm sorry, it's the 256 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: Hebrew name for God. That's that's what that is, um. 257 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: But then I'm sorry. The third feather on the right wing? 258 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: How does how to off one determine the third feather? 259 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: There are a lot of feathers on a wing, yeah, right, 260 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: do you count from the outside in or the inside out. 261 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: It's sort of like your grandma's recipes. You know, it's 262 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: like a pinch or it doesn't even give you like 263 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: actual measurements. It's a basic ratio, you know, so maybe 264 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: the third it doesn't matter just if you count. You know, 265 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: you use the honor system for plucking feathers. So the 266 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,479 Speaker 1: important part here too, And it has further instructions for 267 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: what to do after plugging that quill, and how to 268 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: make it into a pen, what to do with the ink. 269 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: And one thing that's incredibly important about this is that 270 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: each of these physical acts are accompanied by this incantation 271 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: that one must recite. To simply pluck a feather from 272 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: anywhere on on the gosling is going to completely sink 273 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: the entire experiment. So everything you do has to be 274 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: attached to these pronunciations. I cannot get over the idea 275 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: of these as experiments. It totally goes hand in hand 276 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: with the kind of scientific nature of like alchemy and 277 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,239 Speaker 1: all of that, and how it all is just kind 278 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: of like trial and error type stuff. I really like that. 279 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: And there's and just like modern day experiments, there's intense ritualization. 280 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: There's an effort to account for all the variables and 281 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: reduce possible intervening variables, right, which is strange because you know, now, 282 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: it's safe to say most modern day scientists would not 283 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: take kindly to being compared to sorcerers or wizards. I 284 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: think that's saki in the in the mouth. It's science. Yeah, 285 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: But there's there's an interesting parallel here. And while this 286 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: is all fascinating, it's safe to say that almost anyone 287 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: could sit down and make something like this up from 288 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: the whole cloth. We could. We could say, okay, if 289 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: you want to if you want to summon rainfall, then 290 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: here's what you do. And if we're making it up, 291 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter really to us. If it works. We say, 292 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: you find a you find a stray cat, you make 293 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: it where this special head dress that you made out 294 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: of grass while you're saying these words and then boom yeah. Right, 295 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: And the question is is this any different or is 296 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 1: this just an older example? How real quote unquote real 297 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: is the actual key of Solomon. Here's where it gets crazy, 298 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: and this is strange. There are there are actually several 299 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy moments. Here you're gonna say 300 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: every time. Now I think just wants sort of an umbrella. 301 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. It's like a Key of 302 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: Solomon kind of thing. So, first, in virtually every translation, 303 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: this book appears to be uh what we call pseudo epigraphic, 304 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: so meaning falsely attributed to a legendary author, a book 305 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: like that what so for instance, um, this this happened 306 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: a lot in early Western religious developments. Three hundred, four hundred, 307 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: seven hundred years after something occurred or after someone was alive, 308 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: an enterprising uh scholar would write a book and say, 309 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, this is the book that this guy wrote. 310 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: I know you've seen a lot of imitations, but except 311 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: no imitations, this is the real book of you know, 312 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: this disciple or this person, right from the Torah or something. 313 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: And experts estimate that the earliest versions of something like 314 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: the Key of Solomon weren't actually written until somewhere between 315 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: the fourteenth or fifteenth century. We have a quote from 316 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: a researcher named Arthur Edward Waite that says says essentially 317 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: that there's no ground for attributing the Kia Solomon in 318 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: his present form a higher antiquity than the fourteenth or 319 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: fifteenth century. A lot of people latch onto that present 320 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 1: form thing and say, well, maybe this version we understand 321 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: isn't true. But maybe those Babylonian philosophers really did find 322 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: some tattered scrolls by a skeleton, and those scrolls, uh 323 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: just decayed over time, and people just kept recopying the 324 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: story you're talking about, like in the Clutches of Solomon's 325 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: Dead Hands, right, they're saying in the in the in 326 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: the separate sep. Yeah, sorry, man, I'm having I'm having 327 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: a bit of a day, ben, Yeah. Yeah, Just I 328 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: can't pronounce words. I can't pronounce words. You know, I'll 329 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: never forget one time in elementary school I got a 330 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: I got a be because I did a report on 331 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: Carl Jung swinging a miss. I just didn't have many 332 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: people to speak with, you know, in our business, and 333 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: by that I mean the business that is pod. You're 334 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna be You're gonna have a few pronunciation 335 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: misses every now and then. It's just gonna happen. Yeah, 336 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: And you have to wonder what would happen if we 337 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: were practitioners of magic? What if mispronouncing a word totally 338 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: yielded a an undesirable or cataclysmic results. And furthermore, just 339 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: while we're on this subject, the act of making a 340 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: podcast is in many ways similar. There's a ritual, right 341 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: that we undergo as individuals, that we undergo as a group. 342 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: We're recording that you undergo as you listen, right, And 343 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: there's something that we're all doing together in a way. 344 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: We're making this strange working together. It is strange. And 345 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: also the ritualism of it all is why I get 346 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: so thrown every time Matt's not here, and we both 347 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: get so thrown and we look at each other because 348 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: we don't know how to start. It's true, it's true. 349 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: And when we say it's true, we mean it is 350 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: not just true for us right now, but it is 351 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: true for all time. You can go back to the 352 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: very beginning of our show and you can hear those 353 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: moments that we have just described. Those moments have something 354 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: called historocity. Historocity is something that comes up in the 355 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: search for the Key of Solomon as well. Historocity is 356 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: just the fun to say word that describes the historical 357 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: authenticity of a given person, place, event, or thing. I 358 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: love this word. Yeah, yeah, it's a great one because 359 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: when okay, So, if you've ever seen those specials on 360 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: the History Channel or National Geographic or something, wherein they 361 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: have documentary ands saying all right now we're journeying to 362 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: this mountain in Turkey to search for the real Noah's Ark. 363 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,959 Speaker 1: Of course, their questing for historosity. They want to prove 364 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: the legends. One example of this that we returned to 365 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: time and time again would be the search for the 366 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: ancient city of Troy, which was for a long time 367 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: after it was lost, it was believed to be a 368 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: myth until someone found. Yeah, it's like we were talking 369 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: about finding Genghis Khan's burial side, any anything, or the 370 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: lost City of Atlanta's whatever, and it's all kind of 371 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: myth and and and hubbub until you actually do discover 372 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: something like that. Is that historosity there? Yes, yes, yes, 373 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: So multiple scholars even today as we record this, they've 374 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: examined the works describing King Solomon, and they've attempted to 375 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: square these texts with existing physical evidence or secular contemporary writing, 376 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: so non non religious community based, and the debate over 377 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: this stuff continues today. There are some scholars like this 378 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: Professor Israel Finkelstein, who argue that the story surrounding the 379 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: rule of King Solomon are not factually accurate, and he 380 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: and people who agree with him do not believe the 381 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: Biblical descriptions of anything should be taken literally. So like 382 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: they're saying, like Solomon was like a like a character, 383 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: kind of like a made up cartoon. Not they're not 384 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: quite going that far. Often they're saying that a lot 385 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: of this stuff attributed to him doesn't doesn't count because 386 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: there are people believe they've found the tomb of the 387 00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: King of Israel, right, and you're on, You're absolutely correct, 388 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: though in that there are other scholars who totally say 389 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: there's a There's a guy named Philip Davis who says 390 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: Solomon himself is totally invented, just made up character, maybe 391 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: a maybe a literary device to explain the story of 392 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: Israel at the time, or various other political circumstances. And 393 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: then there are still other scholars who are completely on 394 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: the other side, like William Deever who believed that the 395 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: Biblical stories of Solomon and his kingdom are more or 396 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: less trustworthy. So even now in we have three camps 397 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: of people, we have a group of people saying yes, totally, absolutely, 398 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: mostly true. A group of people saying, well, something was true, 399 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: but it got exaggerated. And then we have a group 400 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: of people who are saying bunk, flim flam, malarkey and huey, 401 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: all of them, all of them. Yeah. So the search 402 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: for physical evidence that would be the real smoking gun, right. 403 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: The search for physical evidence continues, and in the Middle 404 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: East today, various people argue that they have found physical 405 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: evidence of things described in religious works. And then there's 406 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: another camp of people who argue that these ruins are 407 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: being purposely conflated with other ancient stories for one reason 408 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: or another. And one of the big accusations is that 409 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: these reasons are politically motivated to give one group or 410 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: another in the modern day a more quote unquote legitimate 411 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 1: claim to land. I see, but there's another piece of 412 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: physical evidence, several pieces that we haven't really talked about. 413 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: What we should at least mention, let's get to him. 414 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: After a word from our sponsor, we're back. The thing 415 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: about this physical evidence is that we are still producing 416 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: new physical evidence, new cultural iterations ultimately derived from the 417 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: Key of Solomon in the modern day. You know, we 418 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: mentioned there are other books that came later, like the 419 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: Testament of Solomon or the Lesser Key of Solomon, that's 420 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: the one with the seventy two demons and their properties named. 421 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: You know, that's where we can see the trace of 422 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: these pagan gods. Those works are still inspiring works in 423 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: the modern day. Yeah, Like I think we've talked about 424 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: maybe we haven't on this show. But um, the movie 425 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: Hereditary Um, which I think you and I both enjoyed, 426 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: enjoy is maybe a weird way of putting it. It's 427 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: a unpleasant film. I enjoyed it. Yeah, well be those 428 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: are your people man, all right, No, no, no, but yes, 429 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: it's a very expertly done kind of psychological horror show 430 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: with family drama kind of at its heart. But this 431 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: is slight spoilers. Slight spoiler uh barely abandoned all hope 432 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: of not being spoiled. Ye who listen here? Yes, but 433 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: we're not gonna do major was just the inclusion which 434 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: if you had your uh p's and queues of demonology down, 435 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: you would have noticed very early on in the movie 436 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: that there's a certain symbol that shows up, um that 437 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: is the symbol of one of the gods or not demons. 438 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: Rather in this this lesser Key of Solomon called Paymon, 439 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: and Paymon was one of the kind of dukes of 440 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: Hell I believe, or like one of Satan's. You know what, 441 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: a prince of Hell? What would you how would you 442 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: call him? Yeah, he's a often described as a great king, 443 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: but he's obedient to Lucifer, so he's he's not in 444 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: charge charge, but he commands many other many other spirits, 445 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: that's right. And he's depicted as having sort of a 446 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: feminine features, writing upon a camel, and he commands um 447 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: the ability to control people and summon other demons, and 448 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: also is a big fan of the arts, as it 449 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: turns out, and you'll see folks like the occultist Carol 450 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: Poke Runyan who will come up later, Carol Poke Runyan 451 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: who suggests that this name ultimately derives from a pre 452 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: existing pagan god. And he says this because some of 453 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: those manuscripts depict Payment as a woman riding a camel. 454 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: And this goes back to the overall claim that the 455 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: Lesser Key of Solomon and the Key of Solomon themselves 456 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: are actually rooted in pre existing Mesopotamian mythology. So again 457 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: we see the cultural evolution here and it continues today. 458 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: That's the thing. History is not so distant as people 459 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: would have you believe. The story Hereditary again, we'll we'll 460 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: end the spoilers after this. The story of Hereditary does 461 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: some excellent research into the foundations of what is perceived 462 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: as a demon today and once was not necessarily associated 463 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: with anything inherently bad, you know, and it's it's fast. 464 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: We have to wonder where the evolution is going to go. 465 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: But we said, there's there's another thing we run into 466 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: with the Key of Solomon when the big questions we're 467 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: talking about in this episode, does it actually work? Meaning 468 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: is there some sort of operation or experiment that you, 469 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: fellow listeners Paul and Nolan I could do that would 470 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: create a reproducible, predictable outcome. Multiple people maintain that this 471 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: is the case that experiments or operations outlined in the 472 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: book actually do work, just perhaps not the way you 473 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: might assume if you're thinking about magic is the sort 474 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: of thing we see in horror movies. According to this 475 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: guy who mentioned earlier, Poke Runyan, who's an author, a 476 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: cultural anthropologist, and we have to say, to be fair, 477 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: a complete magic practitioner himself, he is actually doing this stuff. 478 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: According to him, the Key of Solomon is more an 479 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: example of Western shamanism, and these operations, experiments and rituals 480 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: explained in the text are actually early forms of psychological 481 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: psychological experiments therapy even really, Yeah, that would never have 482 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: occurred to me. So it's almost more along the lines 483 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: of kind of like the mystics we talked about on 484 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: our other show, Ridiculous History, and the hermits of the 485 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: Ridge of the Cave of Kelpiusts, or the cults. It's 486 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: like a doomsday cult that was headed by a philosopher 487 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: slash astronomer who practiced some of these kind of end 488 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: times philosophies, but did seem to be kind of rallying 489 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: around ritual and this idea of the sort of mystic arts. Yeah, 490 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: and that's an excellent point because in that episode we 491 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: mentioned that in the modern age, or what appears to 492 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: be modern for us, we often have this harsh and 493 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: bright divide between what we see as the realm of 494 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: the esoteric and the mystic and the realm of the 495 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: rational and the scientific. But the truth of the matter is, 496 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: for most of human civilization, those two things were not 497 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: considered mutually exclusive. I believe. We used the example of 498 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: um Isaac Newton, who did some profoundly groundbreaking scientific work 499 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: but also believed in alchemy. You know, and this the 500 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: presence of mysticism in early philosophy, or the presence of 501 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: these ritualistic beliefs, does not mean that everything was automatically wrong. 502 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: And if we look at it from an anthropological perspective, 503 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: maybe they were making some psychological breakthrough, similar to that 504 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: episode we had about the inherent mysticism in the bi 505 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: cameral mind theory. Right, you're hearing a voice, and that 506 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: voice is driving your human train, and the voices you surprise, surprise, 507 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: that's going to be such a Shamalan twist, you know, 508 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 1: I almost wish, But then who are you? Right? Who 509 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 1: are we? What are we here to discuss? That's that's 510 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: what we're getting towards. Yeah, So from an anthropological perspective, 511 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: then does this sort of thing work or do operations 512 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: in here work? A wording to run you it's a 513 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,959 Speaker 1: exploration of the underlying cognitive structure of the human mind, 514 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: which sort of functions in terms of symbol before it 515 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: functions in terms of language. I think we may have 516 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: mentioned on earlier episode, but the kul a problem with 517 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: Cormac McCarthy who wrote he wrote this article Nautilus about 518 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: the relationship between language and the original function of the 519 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: human mind, and the the inspiration for this is the 520 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: common or not infrequent occurrence where some scientists or some 521 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: great thinker is attempting to figure out a problem and 522 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: they racked their brains and they picture a gigantic chalkboard 523 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: and they just go crazy and throw everything everywhere, and 524 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: then they fall asleep and they get the answer in 525 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: a dream. But it's never word words, it's an a symbol. Interesting. 526 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: So the reason this is important is because with that, 527 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: with that emphasis on symbols, with that emphasis on these 528 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: visual aspects, these emotional states over what we call language, 529 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: Runyan traces a narrative starting from ancient mystery religions all 530 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: the way to more modern theorists like Carl Young who 531 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: believed in the concept of the great unconsciousness and arc types. 532 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: And this means to Runyan that the magic is working 533 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: because there's the inducement of trances and the use of 534 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: ritual that takes the mind to strange and new or 535 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: perhaps old and strange places. So several of the acts 536 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: described or the operations rather are in his mind actually uh, 537 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: means of self discovery and self hypnosis. But these symbols 538 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: are important, and that's before we I think we we 539 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: may be doing a disservice if we don't talk a 540 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: little more about those symbols. Because no, you pointed out 541 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: in early on in Hereditary Demonologist in the crowd, notice 542 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: that symbol, right, that's right. Yeah, a friend of ours 543 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: actually um who is a local practitioner of um witchcraft 544 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: and or Wickanism. And also I believes in the Atlanta 545 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: chapter of the Church of Satan um Hale. Uh recognized 546 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: it right off the bat and knew exactly where the 547 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: movie was going. So good on him. But then I 548 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: maybe being a dummy, but I would like a little 549 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: more clarification as to what separates the lesser key from 550 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: the you know, just the regular key, and why is 551 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 1: it lesser? Right? Yeah, So part of it comes from 552 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: the textual history. We mentioned that there were many, many 553 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: different books that were either translations of something pre existing, 554 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: or they were snatch from other grim noise, or they 555 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 1: were just slapped with the title of something that would 556 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: be familiar to the audience. To the crowd. So the 557 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: Lesser Key of Solomon is is based on another book, 558 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: or a couple of different books, one by a guy 559 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 1: named Johann Vayer Johan Wire called Dave Prestigious damonem And 560 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: it seems like the Lesser Key of Solomon was pulled 561 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: from this other book, not so much from the Key 562 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: of Solomon itself. So the big question is and it 563 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: and it does have a lot of the same ideas. 564 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: The big question is if it just got that title 565 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: because somebody decided to name it that it's there's no 566 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: known author for the book, and it appears like it 567 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: was pulled from several different sources, including Buyer. It was 568 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: compiled in the mid seventeenth century, mostly from things that 569 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: were a couple of centuries older, so it kind of 570 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 1: came after it, which is probably why it was called 571 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: the Lesser Key, not inferior quality, just so. And again, 572 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: like from the from the top of the show, we 573 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: said this idea of the Key of Solomon was an 574 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: umbrella term for several different translations, and um, yeah, I 575 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: can I can see that. That That makes sense. So we're 576 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: encountering we're encountering a couple of things. You're encountering possibilities 577 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: of literary hoaxes, which I don't know if we should 578 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: be too comfortable with, because the idea that it would 579 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: be a literary hoax implies that the authors may have 580 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 1: been cynical and may not have believed what they were writing, 581 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,879 Speaker 1: and I don't think that was always the case at all. 582 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: We're also encountering the possibility of um deep psychological experimentation 583 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: in ancient days. Yeah, yeah, that's that's fascinating to me. 584 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: The idea that some of this uh sort of ritualism 585 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: and mysticism was kind of early forms of psychological healing 586 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: or control or I'm not like almost like you'd see 587 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: at a revival of some kind, you know. Interesting, yes, 588 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: and a good point, because what we do know is 589 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: that whether or not this text was based on some 590 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: earlier texts before the fourteenth or fifteenth centuries, or whether 591 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: it was just made up in the fourteenth and fifteenth 592 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: centuries based on non written or orally transmitted traditions, the 593 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that people who practice this 594 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: stuff now may feel like they are practicing something that 595 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: is psychologically impactful to them. Right, So is magic like 596 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: beauty something in the in mind of the ballholder we're 597 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: we're of course not saying I mean, I don't know 598 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,479 Speaker 1: about you know, I've never done some ritual to try 599 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: to appear invisible. Um, And we didn't warn Cama or anything. No, no, never, never. 600 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: The best way to be invisible in a place is 601 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 1: not to go there. You've definitely done that before. I 602 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,879 Speaker 1: have done that. I'm notorious at the office for that. 603 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: But um, but we're not knocking this at all because 604 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: at heart, whether you feel this is fascinating folklore, whether 605 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: you feel this is a belief system that calls to you, 606 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: or whether you feel this is just something fascinating to 607 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: learn about, the truth is there's nothing wrong with there's 608 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with practicing belief system of your own choice, 609 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: so long as and this is the most important part, 610 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: so long as you are not hurting anyone. And back 611 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: in the day, we had received a number of letters 612 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: and notes from your fellow listeners who had said that 613 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: they had had strange, inexplicable experiences with everything from Norwegia, 614 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: board too, incantations or something that they have found online 615 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: or in a library, or even just staring into a mirror, 616 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: which is an intensely meditative act. And by the way, 617 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: it's the it's one of the acts that or it's 618 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: one of the rituals that Poke Runyan himself practices. You 619 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: can find him online. He's he's got a very particular 620 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: way of speaking. And I think we've played some a 621 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: little bit off air, So I think it's very much 622 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: a a storyteller. But if you have had those sorts 623 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:55,280 Speaker 1: of inexplicable experiences, or if you have attempted to operate 624 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 1: one of the experiments mentioned in the Key of Solomon, 625 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 1: or it's many translations, please do right to us. We 626 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,839 Speaker 1: would like to hear your story. We would like And 627 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: that's whether or not you think something strange happened, or 628 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: whether you thought it was all a waste of time. 629 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 1: We don't. By the way, we don't think that automatically 630 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: means you are unworthy, unpious or don't fear God upious, 631 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,319 Speaker 1: unpious said, unbiased, unbiased. That's different. That is different. That's 632 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: a great point. Either way. You can you can find 633 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: us on Instagram, you can find us on Twitter. You 634 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook, especially our community page. Here's 635 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy, where you can uh. You can 636 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,720 Speaker 1: see Noel and Matt and myself popping up in digital person. 637 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,320 Speaker 1: You can invoke us. Yeah, we even have little avatars 638 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: that we use. That's not true, but we can get them. 639 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: We can get them, we can make them. Uh. We 640 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 1: have the rituals and we have the the ability to 641 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: successfully enact those operations mainly admin privileges. Yeah, mainly, that's 642 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: what they call them now exactly. So the times have changed, 643 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,919 Speaker 1: The times have changed, but Wizard Dree in some form 644 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: or another continues. We would like to hear your experiences 645 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: with it. As always. Thank you so much for checking 646 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,359 Speaker 1: out the episode, and thank you to Paul who we 647 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: did not run that nickname past so we might get 648 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: it at the end of this. But Nol, what what 649 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: do people do if if they don't want to find 650 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: us on Twitter, if you don't want to find us 651 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: on Instagram? If you say I would, um, I know 652 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: you have a phone number one three three s T 653 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 1: d W y t K. That's usually Matts Part two. 654 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,240 Speaker 1: I see what you're doing here. You're trying to invoke 655 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: a bit of ritual your spot on Noel. Yes, we 656 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: always begin and end with a ritual, and you can 657 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: be part of the ritual. You can email us directly. 658 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy and how stuff works dot com,