WEBVTT - Ep. 029 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:05.960 This is the Meat Eater Podcast. We're in Paduka, Kentucky. 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:11.800 How far out of Paduka? How about six miles. We're 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.040 at the homestead of the gentleman who just clarified our 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:20.079 distance from Paduka, Kevin Murphy, Um lives here, not far 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.360 from what rivers down there, the Clarks River. There's so 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.720 many rivers rounding you can't keep all straight lives down 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:32.320 from the Clarks River. It's got horses, sixteen hunting dogs, 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:36.199 a garage that in my that that I gave an 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.800 organization grade of I believe a D plus. You're very generous, 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.040 Steve D plus. He would have gotten f but it 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:48.919 was at least still standing in there. Um. The dogs 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:55.440 Kevin owns are small game dogs, and we just spent 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:03.720 three or four We spent four days in and around 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:13.720 western Kentucky hunting for a variety of small game with dogs. 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:19.600 We hunted squirrels, we hunted eastern cotton tails, and today, 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.920 for the first time ever in my life, we hunted 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:29.120 swamp rabbits, which is the largest of the cotton tail family, 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:36.679 and they are giants, five pounders. All the rabbits days, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.440 there's no doubt they would average over five pounds, and 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:41.880 you've weighed a lot of them. Last year, we weighed 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.560 twelve rabbits at the same location and they all averaged 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.160 above five pounds. The smallest one was four and a half. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.040 The larger one topped just a little bit above six 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.840 pounds with a digital turkeys scale. So it wasn't a 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.040 bathroom scale. It wouldn't, you know, tabletop. It was a 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.720 digital turkey scale. You know. My old man always would 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:04.480 say that, Uh the heat wade. Yi are we boring you? No, 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.560 not at all. I'm very interested in this book that 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.160 I thought it might come into play later in the podcast. 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:10.720 That's all. I'm just doing a little okay good. I 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:17.480 was just curious why you're reading the book during the thing, Kevin, Uh, what, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:20.480 I want to talk about squirrels first, because that's what 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.880 we came down here for years ago. I was at 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.760 I was in St. Louis. We're trying to think of 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.639 it tonight when we're eating dinner. Probably three years ago, 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:29.960 it would be three and a half and be four 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.160 years it's coming April. I'm pretty sure I was in St. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:39.240 Louis at the I was doing a booth appearance um 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.360 at the n r A convention, and I think I 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.400 was there. I think I was there for the network, 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.639 I think Sportsman Channel. And I got to talk, and 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.000 you know, when you're doing that, like I meet all 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.359 kinds of cool people, and we talked a lot about stuff. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:56.880 But but Kevin, we met and got talking about squirrels, 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:02.000 and I just sensed a tremendous amount of ashen for 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.959 squirrel hunting. And not only that, but I could tell 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.880 that you have that you have a very uh, almost 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.960 scientific approach to squirrels. I'm used to seeing that level 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:23.400 of detail in appreciation for the history and the management 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.000 and what's going on seasonally. I'm used seeing it with 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:31.359 turkey guys. I'm used to seeing it with dear guys, 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:36.080 elk guys. You get like sheep fanatics, but you seldom 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:40.520 meet someone who is a lifetime student of small game. 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.360 There's a few of us around, there's a there's a 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.400 brotherhood of us, but to very few here. There's a 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.240 ton of them. There's a lot of local boys that 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.400 you know, we liked our dogs and guns and horses 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.640 and being outside and whether it squirrel, you know, any 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.800 kind of small game, but the squirrel. We've kind of 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.680 some squirrel fanatics here. But what was interesting when we 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.240 were talking about all this, So you were born and 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.800 raised here, yes, just right in the vicinity, yes, And 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.080 what was interesting, as you said, it's cold times to 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:10.640 me over the last day, as we've been hanging out 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.360 hunting together, there was no option but the hunt. Like 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.320 when you were a kid, there's no option but the hunt. 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.440 Small game. That that was it, that was what we 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.200 you know, you joined us. You couldn't wait till you 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.520 got your first baby gun. Started with a baby gun 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.960 and you were after you know, the barn rats and spurs, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.920 you know everything. Nothing was pretty much off limit when 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.479 you're a kid there and you go you go from 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.720 bb gun to twenty two and the rights of passage 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:38.600 was to go out and take a twenty two or 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.640 a shotgun on your first squirrel hunt and get your 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.560 first squirrel. You know, that was the the first level 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.920 of hunting there where you take something with the farm 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.120 is pretty much a squirrel. Uh. Traditionally in Kentucky, Uh, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.280 squirrel season comes in the third Saturday in August and 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.479 everybody hit the squirrel woods and then they it was 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:05.559 mainly mostly deal hunters and uh yeah, still hunt hunting 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.200 there not hound hunting. And uh I can remember I 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:13.279 was probably years old. My dad was a big bird hunter. 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.800 Um even back then, the birds we was getting just 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.240 a little bit thinner. And he decided that he had 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.720 a cousin that heat squirreld hunted all the time with 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.800 when he was a kid growing up, and he took 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:27.760 a German eight millimeter miles or I think you give 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:31.400 about like for it back then and traded it to 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.560 his cousin for a crossed uphound squirrel dog, and so 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.240 that pretty much started. It was a hound type. It 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.800 would bark on track and go around some kind of 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.599 crossed uphound. You know. It didn't have any distinguishing marks 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.760 about it, just an old red brown looking hound, you know, 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.960 I'm trying to remember from fifty years ago. There's not 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.080 any pictures of it. Her name was Lady, and we 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.600 would go out hunting. My dad would be the rifleman, 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.279 and for some reason he had me to be the 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.800 shotgun with a little H and R twenty gauge at 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:06.200 full choke that shot like a rifle. And so and 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.479 that's where I started my career. And like I said, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.760 I have never never looked back and and met people 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:15.799 all over the southeast, lifelong friends that you know, twenty 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.560 five thirty years I've been been hunting with. And yeah, 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.400 and at the time, there was no deer, no turkey, 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.400 not like really huntable numbers. You're you're you're correct, you know, 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.279 small game was king, you know, people rabbit hunting. We 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:32.640 did have quail in huntable numbers and uh and in squirrels, 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.000 and that's what that's what we all pretty much much 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.760 hunted around here. What's interesting about that is, you know, 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.200 we've met so many people this week through Kevin that 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.520 and especially Danny whose property we hunted on today. You 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.600 know that he was probably the third person this week 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.839 that I talked to personally that said, I can remember 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.080 when I saw my first year really you know what 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.240 I mean. And Kevin said he remembered seeing his first 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.360 turkey track. Yeah, I can take you the spot in 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.040 the road right now where I saw my first turkey track. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.559 And that's like a generational thing that you know, people 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.240 that we are peers, like we all just grew up 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:12.120 with that stuff. Really dear turkeys, big game hunting opportunities. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.360 But you think about it, like being born in Michigan. 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.320 They were like I grew up. Guys, you can hunt deer. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.400 There was turkey round us, but not a meet. Now 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.400 it's a great turkey hunting. Like after I moved away 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.400 and left home, my dad started killing turkeys in a 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.600 mile or two of our house every year. You can 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:33.800 hunt bear to the north of us. You can put 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.120 it in for an elk tag to the north of us, 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.520 all in that state. Now, had you rolled the clock 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:46.880 back fifty sixty seven years, it was a very different picture. Yeah. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.520 But then my old man they used to hunt small 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.760 game all the time. They were real serious about hunting 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.480 contail rabbits. But it's just different. But you know, you 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.240 mentioned that thing, like you having a twenty two year 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.240 old man having a shotgun. I want to talk about that, 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.800 Like you're taking old prisoners approach to squirrel hunting. Right 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.240 when you go out with with a dog, you know, 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.640 some somebody in the party needs to take a shotgun. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.040 You know. Uh, we try to kill the majority of 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.040 them with the rifles. But if we have one that's 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:16.720 timber in there, you know we're gonna shoot. We're not 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.760 gonna go up there. I'm you know, very rarely. Well, 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.320 I'll let anybody shoot a sating squirrel with a shotgun. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.440 I mean you're going, that's not when when you've got 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.000 a twenty two rifle. I mean, if if that's the 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:27.680 only means that you have to take it, then then 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:29.720 that's good to do it that a way. But there's 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.360 no sense to it. You know, we get into two 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.520 utilizing that game. Mate. We don't want, you know, a 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.880 squirrel shot up with a shotgun. There there as I've 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.480 showed you guys the the tails cleaning method of cleaning 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.440 the squirrel. If you've got a nice head shot squirrel, 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:47.720 it comes right out and the meat is just pressed 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.320 BEAUTI and uh yeah, and and and I'll put out 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:55.439 Kevin's like super serious about small game cookery. And you've 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.920 eaten I mean thousands of squirrels. Yes, yes, when I 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:01.800 got when I got into squirrel hunt and squirrel Home 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:03.520 is a big deal for us. It was in Michigan 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.640 September open day of squirrel season, so later, and you 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.880 guys got started, and we got onto me and our brothers, 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.400 we got onto shotguns because if we wanted to go 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.160 out and get a bunch of stuff. And when you're hunting, 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:22.440 like I always divide squirrel hunting into leaves on leaves, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:27.040 off leaves on squirrel hunting when the deciduous trees are 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:31.280 still carrying the leaves. It's it's a listening game as 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.120 much as anything where you're out and you're just hear 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.880 them up in the tree tops and we get under them, 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:38.800 and a lot of times like you can't see them 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:40.440 and they can't see you quite as good. You get 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.200 under them and you get them moving through the tree 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.680 tops and we'd blast them with shotguns and they get 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:51.880 full of pellets, sometimes pretty bad depending um. You know. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:53.960 In our dad, Oh, he would never would shoot squirrels 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.480 with it shotgun, you know. I remember he would do 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.040 use twenty two and he insisted like two to the 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.160 head because of the meat damage thing. And he hated 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.320 picking shot. He didn't like the way the shot carried 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.800 for into the meat. All that junk. A good trick 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.280 for that, just if you're listening. If you do shoot something, birds, whatever, 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.319 small game, and you get where the pellet carries fur 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.120 into the meat or feathers into the meat, take it. 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.760 Do you ever do that? Take a toothpick, man, You 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.839 take a toothpick and poke it into the hole and 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.240 twist it all the fur, all the feathers clicked around 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.960 that toothpick and you pull it out. It's just clean. Yeah, 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:32.480 remember that it'll look dark like because the meat on 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.640 you know, the light meat on rabbits and squirrels. It'll 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.480 look dark. And you don't realize because that pellet drug 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.560 a little bit of think furn there and even if 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.840 it passes through, like if the pellet passes through, it'll 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:44.280 leave all that fur and feather in there. But you 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:48.040 take a toothpick, sire, and toilet pulls right out. That's slick. 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:54.079 It's slick. But anyhow, I now I think you said 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.559 the same thing. I would rather have one squirrel shot 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.400 to the head of the twenty two then three squirrels 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.360 that got shot, yes, because it's so clean and nice 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.600 that way. You know, I agree with you. You know, 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:09.800 you don't have to struggle when you're you know, using 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.040 the tail tail cleaning method. You can clean that that 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.720 one squirrel just in a flash, be done with it. 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.599 If it's shotgunning there, you you know, pulling too. Sometimes 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.439 you've got the gut squirting out of the thing and 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.040 it's just it's just, you know, it just doesn't look 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:28.559 that good when you get done with it. Thing there 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:33.160 you go beat beautiful when it's all the wise? So, uh, 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:38.240 how how does like put it to me? From from 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:42.760 however you'd like to discuss it? How does squirrel hunting 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:47.520 with dogs differ? I can see that it's way more 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.240 effective than still hunting for squirrels. But just explain the 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.960 process of squirrel hunting dogs, what kind of dogs, what 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.680 the dogs responsibilities are kind of how you trained up 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.640 your dog dogs, and what you expect from your dogs 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:07.760 when you're hunting squirrels. Okay, um, you know any kind 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:12.160 of dog can make a squirrel dog. In in people say, well, 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.040 I've got a squirrel dog. But a squirrel dog to 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.760 me is a dog that can use his nose, his ears, 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.480 his eyes to tree a squirrel. There's a lot of 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.800 dogs out there that can only just use their eyes. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:26.800 They have to see it before they bark at it 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.040 and tree it, or they have to hear it and 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.679 then see it before there or then some of them 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:36.800 may be a hand of the hand variety can only 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.560 use their smell to go in there. But if you've 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.880 got a top notch what I classify as a squirrel dog, 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.280 you know there's dogs that can tree pre squirrels, and 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:46.960 you can kill a squirrel with it. And then there's 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.319 squirrel dogs. And a squirrel dog has these three. It 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:55.560 has sent in ability, hearing ability, and visual location. There 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.200 those three real quick. I'll probably interrupt you a whole bunch, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.520 so I'm not gonna apologies every time. But when he's 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:06.480 saying hearing squirrels bark, yes, so there's that noise, I'll 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.079 make like me, look at you know. But then what 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.760 he's man talking about hearing is nails on bark, nails 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:17.240 on bark scuffling through the uh, the leaves. That's a 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.640 sure sign giveaway that some of them can hear that 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.800 from a long ways, so not so they're not necessarily 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:24.920 waiting to hear him do a squirrel noise. But he'll 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.520 just decipher the sound of one running and the sound 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.160 of one going through the woods, and he'll bay that 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.240 noise or you know, and it may be something else 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.560 running through the through the leaves or something, but he 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.040 goes down in a good squirreld. I goes in there 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.480 and said, well, this was a maybe a deer running 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.920 through the through the woods or something, or or some 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.760 other off game whatever there and he'll he'll come back, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:51.640 come back. You know, my terminology of running the deers 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:53.679 when they hit a deer and they run off and 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.640 they don't come back for an i or two. Occasionally, 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.400 you know, we will bounce a deer there. Maybe we 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.240 got some young dogs whatever, but predominantly we have no 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.640 I have no trouble with with with our dogs running 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.480 a deer whatsoever, you know, just to jump away from 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.360 squirrels from I'll tell you something I saw today, and 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.880 we were running swamp rabbits, not with your squirrel dogs, 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:17.240 but with your rabbit eagles. I saw those dogs trail 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.880 into a thicket on a rabbit's trail, trail into a thicket. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.040 A bunch of deer went bounding out the other direction, 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.640 and I thought for sure all those dogs would go 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.760 off in that directed to but they didn't. They didn't care. 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.040 They stayed right on and came out there side of 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.200 the thicket, still on the rabbit's trail. We couldn't have 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:41.000 cared less. Yeah, we you know, they elect the e collar. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.240 You know some people may referred as a shot collar. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.360 You know that is I'm one of the main tools 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.400 of training dogs, and most of them now have electronic buzzer, 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.200 and all you have to do is shock your dog 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:55.920 one or two times. When you shock it, they hear 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.920 the buzzer also. Then after that pretty much they hear 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.080 you can They've got a own button down there that 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.800 you can use. And once you tone those dogs a 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.920 couple of times, you know, they realize that they're not 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:08.800 supposed to be running running the deers. You know, you 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:10.400 may shock them once or twice and then have to 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.560 tone them. And after that we pretty much don't have to. Now, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.680 if we bring a young dog into the pack, something 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.320 that's around a year old, less than two years old, 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.200 year and a half somewhere like that, sometimes we have 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.240 just a little bit of difficulty with them. But with 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.720 the e collars, we take care of that real quick. 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.680 And if you don't, you can lose your whole pack 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.640 of dogs real quick. Oh it's in the dog's own 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.360 best interest, man, I don't think like I never stand 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.880 being apologetic about something like that. But go way for 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.520 a dog to get killed is to go chasing deer. Yes, yes, 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:41.600 because the ear's gonna keep going in a straight line. 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:43.960 He's gonna go out and roads and a lot of 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.440 guys they see a deer. They see a dog running deer, 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.480 the first impulse is to shoot the dog because they 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.000 think it's a fer old dog. But it's just like 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.680 a dog. Dogs that run deer have less chance of 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.440 getting old. That's correct, a lot less of a chance 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.600 of getting old than dog wearing a shot color, you 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:05.560 know what I mean. So continuing about all that, So, 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:07.640 like I said, you've got two types of dogs, a 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.600 dog that ken tree, a squirrel and a squirrel dog. Um, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.320 you know, the best thing to do when you get 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.200 a young dog it could be, you know, try if 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.360 you're gonna go out shopping for a squirrel dog. You know, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:23.560 look at the guy that's got it, Look at his parents, grandparents, 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.240 if they're around whatever. You know. Take that. So I 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:27.800 want to go out with these dogs, You try to 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.720 get some type of dog that's got a you know, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.720 a good history of being bred to be a squirrel dog. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.880 You know. To me, there's two categories of squirrel dogs. 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.520 Maybe you could say three there if you really want 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.720 to get into the hand right there. But you've got 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.040 the fast dog, which is Bobby Jane. Oh, he's a 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:53.040 small dog. Fist F I E S T. And uh 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.320 you know that to me, that's a dog that's usually 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.120 under thirty pounds. There's an organization called the American Tree 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.320 and Fast Association and they have um rules and standards. 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.040 Four dogs, uh feist and it's usually like a I 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.639 think a male now can be way thirty to twenty 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.679 eight pounds, don't you know they're about I have to 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:13.600 have to look at the rigs and then it could 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.040 be so tall at the shoulders. Well that's where Bobby 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.639 Janeo is there. And uh they're supposed to be dogs 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:26.160 that you know have those abilities scenting, carrying and um 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.400 um using their eyes. And then you have a cur 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.160 dog which is like but you bad Toe, which he's 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.080 a cur that's mixed in with a porner bird dog. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.719 And we like to do that to give the dog bigger. 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.720 He's a little bigger curd dogs using above thirty pounds 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.280 to lose his toe. You know. He was that way 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.760 when I got him as a puppy, when I picked 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.239 him out. But you, bad Toe was supposed to be 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.639 a barbie. Bad Toe was supposed to be a girl dog. 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.200 I was getting ready to go on a fishing trip 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.840 to uh Ontario to fish with some walleye and that 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:01.520 was at a friend of mine's house and he had 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.240 this brown and white dog looked like a clone to 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.320 to butch you. They're running around his yards. Said man, 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.159 I really liked that dog. He said, well, says so 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:10.880 and so has got some more rems that he could 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:12.760 probably get you once is I said, what do you 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.359 think he'd let me, uh keep it for two to 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.080 three weeks and how I get back from Kennedy said, 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:18.600 I don't know. Let's just call him up. I said, 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.720 I'd like to get a female, because if you have 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.760 a female you can breed her to most anybody stud dog. 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.680 If you have a male dog, people are real hesitants 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.879 about taking your male dog and read it to their 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.560 fail So that's where you know, I was wanting to 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:38.160 get the kids. Yes, but um I went over there 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:41.879 and picked out a dog, and for some reason I 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.720 thought he was a female. And I get him home, 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.639 and after like two or three days and fooding with 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:49.280 him out of yard, all of a sudden, I was eight. 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:55.199 I got a male dog there. Yeah, so you know, 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:56.879 and like I said, he just all of a sudden 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:58.199 I looked and he had looked like he had a 0:18:58.240 --> 0:18:59.760 toll that was hung up in a gate or something 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.800 and has given any problems. So he just got the 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:06.240 butchee bad though. He said of Barbie Bead though, but 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:11.159 he's got a real sense of of using his nose. 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.359 As you saw other day this, a lot of the 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.840 squirrels they tread had been there probably an I or 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.920 two before, around the den trees. Lots lots of heavy 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:27.720 scent there and uh um or um. Bobby Jango didn't 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.520 treat that many that day there. He came in after 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.000 Butchie had him trade and tread with him. You know, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.000 he supported him there. But like I said, the curd 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.600 dogs who usually use their more more of their nose 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.480 um than than a fist. And then you go into 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.600 the hounds, and some sometimes people take blue tickhounds or 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.080 or red ticks or whatever and try to train them 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.199 on squirrels or get them started on squirrels first. But 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.200 like I said, what they'll do they'll hit a track 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.960 and they'll start barking immediately, and then they'll run that 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.160 track to the tree or I FicT or occurred doll. 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.240 Predominantly they do not bark any on track. They might 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.760 bark on a hot track or after when they're chasing 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.400 after a squirrel running. You know, they've got him sight 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.280 chasing him. They're barking yepping it at that time. But 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.480 when a hound hits a track is you've probably seen 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.960 with bared dogs and in line dogs and stuff. You 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:16.840 know they're all barking all the time when they were 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.720 on the track when you we didn't, we haven't seen 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.560 any of that. You don't like your dog to bark. 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.520 He's like, here's the tree, the squirrel in this tree. Yes, 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.359 that's what the squirrel dog needs to do. Is there's 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.440 no need because all he's doing is giving that squirrel. 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.080 If he's barking on the way of the tree, that's 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.160 giving him warning, saying, hey, he's not here yet, Now 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.960 is my time to escape. If the squirrel dog runs 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.840 in there and trees, the squirrel, especially younger juvenile squirrels, 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.080 they'll freeze up a lot of times. They'll just stay, 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.000 you know, stay there and they wait. You know, they'll 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.080 keep it tree till you get there. Where If he's 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.480 barking on a track, that gives a squirrel warning time 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:52.520 to get out and say, hey, something is coming my way. 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.560 Let's let's leave here now. I'll point out when when 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:02.480 like most of the squirrel hunt. Well, I'll sit for squirrels, 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.679 and I'll still hunt for squirrels. But what I generally 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.280 do as a combination of the two. So the way 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:11.760 I would go out with a non dog hunter, we'll 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.240 go out for squirrels is like on the perfect day, 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:16.760 when everything gets planned out right, I would go out 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.560 just before like because the squirrels don't move like you'll 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:23.840