1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:30,890 Speaker 1: Pushkin Air New Zealand Flight nine oh one is flying 2 00:00:31,010 --> 00:00:36,490 Speaker 1: straight towards a mountain. Two hundred and fifty seven people 3 00:00:36,610 --> 00:00:41,010 Speaker 1: are on board, most of them sipping champagne and hearing 4 00:00:41,130 --> 00:00:45,970 Speaker 1: eagerly out of the windows. It's November nineteen seventy nine. 5 00:00:46,770 --> 00:00:50,970 Speaker 1: This is a sightseeing trip to Antarctica. They took off 6 00:00:51,010 --> 00:00:54,610 Speaker 1: from New Zealand this morning. They'll enjoy some views of 7 00:00:54,850 --> 00:00:59,090 Speaker 1: spectacular icy landscapes. If it's not too cloudy, of course, 8 00:01:00,210 --> 00:01:03,250 Speaker 1: then they'll loop around and land back in New Zealand 9 00:01:03,370 --> 00:01:08,570 Speaker 1: in time for dinner. Captain Jim Collins talks to the passengers. 10 00:01:09,850 --> 00:01:12,050 Speaker 2: The cloud cover in the McMurdo area has. 11 00:01:11,970 --> 00:01:13,850 Speaker 1: Increased, although ground. 12 00:01:13,530 --> 00:01:16,410 Speaker 2: Visibility is good. We will be taking advantage of the 13 00:01:16,530 --> 00:01:20,090 Speaker 2: raidar facilities at McMurdo for letdown, which should take us 14 00:01:20,130 --> 00:01:22,250 Speaker 2: below the cloud and give us a view of the 15 00:01:22,330 --> 00:01:23,250 Speaker 2: McMurdo area. 16 00:01:26,090 --> 00:01:31,450 Speaker 1: McMurdo the McMurdo Sound, an inlet between mainland Antarctica and 17 00:01:31,610 --> 00:01:36,370 Speaker 1: Ross Island. There's an American research base at McMurdo with 18 00:01:36,490 --> 00:01:41,170 Speaker 1: a small airstrip on the ice. Captain Collins calls them 19 00:01:41,170 --> 00:01:44,090 Speaker 1: on the radio to check there are no other planes around. 20 00:01:45,170 --> 00:01:49,290 Speaker 1: They assume they'll see him soon flying low over the inlet. 21 00:01:50,210 --> 00:01:55,850 Speaker 1: But Captain Collins isn't flying towards the water of McMurdo Sound. 22 00:01:56,610 --> 00:02:02,490 Speaker 1: He's flying towards a mountain, a twelve thousand foot active 23 00:02:02,610 --> 00:02:08,730 Speaker 1: volcano to be exact. Also in the cockpriit is famed 24 00:02:08,770 --> 00:02:14,730 Speaker 1: and Arctic explorer Peter Mulgrew. He's there to entertain the passengers, 25 00:02:14,850 --> 00:02:17,370 Speaker 1: telling stories and pointing out landmarks. 26 00:02:18,210 --> 00:02:20,050 Speaker 3: This is Peter Mulgrew again, folks. 27 00:02:20,490 --> 00:02:22,690 Speaker 2: I still can't see very much at the moment. Keep 28 00:02:22,690 --> 00:02:25,130 Speaker 2: you informed as soon as I see something that gives 29 00:02:25,130 --> 00:02:25,850 Speaker 2: me a clue. 30 00:02:25,650 --> 00:02:29,810 Speaker 1: As to where we are. Peter Mulgrew can't see where 31 00:02:29,810 --> 00:02:32,890 Speaker 1: they are as Collins takes the plane down to a 32 00:02:32,930 --> 00:02:36,210 Speaker 1: gap in the cloud. But a display in the cockpit 33 00:02:36,570 --> 00:02:40,050 Speaker 1: should tell them where they are. It shows their distance 34 00:02:40,130 --> 00:02:44,970 Speaker 1: to the next pre programmed waypoint in their computerized flight path. 35 00:02:46,130 --> 00:02:48,490 Speaker 1: That morning, the crew got a print out of the 36 00:02:48,530 --> 00:02:52,530 Speaker 1: coordinates for those waypoints, which they manually entered into the 37 00:02:52,570 --> 00:02:57,010 Speaker 1: plane's navigation system. The flight engineer wants to check something. 38 00:02:57,890 --> 00:03:00,090 Speaker 3: Where's Erebus in relation to us at the moment? 39 00:03:00,890 --> 00:03:06,770 Speaker 1: To the left, He's told Erebus that's the twelve thousand 40 00:03:06,770 --> 00:03:08,050 Speaker 1: foot volcano. 41 00:03:08,650 --> 00:03:11,450 Speaker 3: I'm just thinking of any high ground in the area, 42 00:03:11,570 --> 00:03:11,970 Speaker 3: that's all. 43 00:03:12,930 --> 00:03:17,690 Speaker 1: But Mount Erebus isn't to their left, it's straight in 44 00:03:17,690 --> 00:03:24,250 Speaker 1: front of them. Captain Collins keeps descending to fifteen hundred feet. 45 00:03:25,410 --> 00:03:29,530 Speaker 1: The old Antarctic hand Peter Mulgrew, peering through the window, 46 00:03:29,930 --> 00:03:34,050 Speaker 1: sees enough to get his bearings, or so he thinks. 47 00:03:34,730 --> 00:03:35,410 Speaker 3: Ross Island. 48 00:03:35,490 --> 00:03:40,610 Speaker 1: Eh, they've now lost radio contact with the Americans at McMurdo. 49 00:03:41,530 --> 00:03:43,890 Speaker 1: The flight engineer is feeling uneasy. 50 00:03:44,970 --> 00:03:45,730 Speaker 3: I don't like this. 51 00:03:46,930 --> 00:03:50,610 Speaker 1: Captain Collins also seems to sense that something isn't right. 52 00:03:51,570 --> 00:03:55,210 Speaker 4: We're twenty six miles north. We'll have to climb out 53 00:03:55,290 --> 00:03:55,410 Speaker 4: of this. 54 00:03:56,610 --> 00:04:00,570 Speaker 1: Twenty six miles north. That'll be north of the next 55 00:04:00,770 --> 00:04:06,170 Speaker 1: pre programmed waypoint. We'll come back to that, climb out 56 00:04:06,210 --> 00:04:13,370 Speaker 1: of this. We'll come back to that too. The dialogue 57 00:04:13,410 --> 00:04:19,010 Speaker 1: in this cockpit recording will be bitterly debated. But now 58 00:04:19,170 --> 00:04:24,170 Speaker 1: the ground proximity alert is going off. Wood woop, pull up, 59 00:04:25,090 --> 00:04:26,610 Speaker 1: wood whoop, pull up. 60 00:04:28,330 --> 00:04:29,210 Speaker 3: Five hundred food. 61 00:04:30,370 --> 00:04:34,930 Speaker 1: They shouldn't be that low. Maybe it's a false alarm 62 00:04:34,970 --> 00:04:40,490 Speaker 1: four hundred food. Anyway, there's a routine procedure when this alert, 63 00:04:40,530 --> 00:04:45,730 Speaker 1: goes off, boost the engine power and climb. Captain Collins 64 00:04:46,050 --> 00:04:47,250 Speaker 1: doesn't sound concerned. 65 00:04:48,130 --> 00:04:51,450 Speaker 4: Go around power please wood whoop, pull up. 66 00:04:53,810 --> 00:05:24,890 Speaker 1: I'm Tim Harford and you're listening to cautionary tales. When 67 00:05:25,250 --> 00:05:29,050 Speaker 1: Jim Collins put his name forward for a sightseeing flight 68 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:34,370 Speaker 1: to Antarctica, it was more in hope than expectation. Collins 69 00:05:34,450 --> 00:05:39,570 Speaker 1: was experienced and respected by his colleagues. He was cautious, methodical, 70 00:05:40,090 --> 00:05:46,210 Speaker 1: always taking notes, but aged just forty five, he wasn't 71 00:05:46,290 --> 00:05:49,930 Speaker 1: one of the top guys, the senior pilots who were 72 00:05:49,970 --> 00:05:57,450 Speaker 1: also company executives. When Air New Zealand started their sightseeing flights, 73 00:05:58,130 --> 00:06:03,010 Speaker 1: the executive pilots called dibbs. They wanted to see Antarctica too. 74 00:06:04,250 --> 00:06:06,570 Speaker 1: But now the flights had been running for a couple 75 00:06:06,610 --> 00:06:13,050 Speaker 1: of years, ordinary pilots were also getting a turn. Collins 76 00:06:13,210 --> 00:06:16,490 Speaker 1: was thrilled to see his name on the roster. The 77 00:06:16,610 --> 00:06:19,850 Speaker 1: evening before the flight, he sat at home with a 78 00:06:19,890 --> 00:06:23,810 Speaker 1: big map, drawing lines and pointing things out to his 79 00:06:23,930 --> 00:06:29,930 Speaker 1: teenage daughters. In the morning, Colin's wife, Maria waved him 80 00:06:29,930 --> 00:06:32,330 Speaker 1: off with a reminder of her call at the shop 81 00:06:32,370 --> 00:06:38,930 Speaker 1: on the way home. Don't forget the fish, but The 82 00:06:39,050 --> 00:06:42,930 Speaker 1: early evening brought a phone call from Air New Zealand. 83 00:06:44,130 --> 00:06:48,050 Speaker 1: We're just a bit concerned about Jim's flight. We haven't 84 00:06:48,090 --> 00:06:51,250 Speaker 1: heard from him for a while. Are you on your own? 85 00:06:52,250 --> 00:06:53,490 Speaker 4: Will the cutter here? 86 00:06:54,690 --> 00:06:59,890 Speaker 1: Have you got another adult there with you? No, might 87 00:06:59,930 --> 00:07:05,450 Speaker 1: be an idea in that moment, said Maria Collins. Later 88 00:07:06,810 --> 00:07:13,170 Speaker 1: she was struck by cold. At nine o'clock, the television 89 00:07:13,210 --> 00:07:18,330 Speaker 1: news led with the missing plane. By now it would 90 00:07:18,330 --> 00:07:23,370 Speaker 1: be out of fuel. Wherever it was, it wasn't still flying. 91 00:07:26,770 --> 00:07:30,330 Speaker 1: In the early hours of the morning, another phone call 92 00:07:31,330 --> 00:07:36,730 Speaker 1: the Americans had spotted what remained of the plane smudged 93 00:07:37,010 --> 00:07:46,490 Speaker 1: across the frozen slopes of Mount Erebus. Police from New 94 00:07:46,610 --> 00:07:50,170 Speaker 1: Zealand were flown out to help with the cleanup. They 95 00:07:50,210 --> 00:07:55,410 Speaker 1: had no specialist training or experience of Antarctica. One had 96 00:07:55,490 --> 00:07:59,050 Speaker 1: never even seen snow, he recalled. 97 00:08:00,170 --> 00:08:03,330 Speaker 3: My senses were overloaded. All the bodies in the wreckage 98 00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:07,370 Speaker 3: an overpowering smell of kerosene. I almost fell through thin 99 00:08:07,450 --> 00:08:08,690 Speaker 3: ice into a crevise. 100 00:08:09,770 --> 00:08:15,410 Speaker 1: Strewn across the snow or champagne, bodies and money and 101 00:08:15,650 --> 00:08:22,010 Speaker 1: cameras and people's diaries. The policeman couldn't resist taking a 102 00:08:22,050 --> 00:08:25,090 Speaker 1: peek inside. 103 00:08:24,330 --> 00:08:27,050 Speaker 3: One described the trip so far and how beautiful the 104 00:08:27,050 --> 00:08:31,570 Speaker 3: Antarctic was. The last words in the diary were jee, 105 00:08:31,610 --> 00:08:32,730 Speaker 3: it's great to be alive. 106 00:08:36,010 --> 00:08:42,370 Speaker 1: The policeman finds Captain Collins's body and nearby his ringbinder. 107 00:08:43,770 --> 00:08:49,290 Speaker 1: He looks inside that too. It's intact, and the pages 108 00:08:49,290 --> 00:08:53,650 Speaker 1: are filled with what looked like briefing notes. It might 109 00:08:53,690 --> 00:09:03,970 Speaker 1: be important. He carefully seals it in a bag. Jim 110 00:09:04,050 --> 00:09:09,810 Speaker 1: had friends among the executive pilots the company men. Collins 111 00:09:09,850 --> 00:09:14,170 Speaker 1: noticed that when they called on her, they started saying 112 00:09:14,250 --> 00:09:20,570 Speaker 1: things like, of course Jim was too low, or it 113 00:09:20,650 --> 00:09:26,570 Speaker 1: was so unlike Jim to contravene any regulations. Maria says, I. 114 00:09:26,570 --> 00:09:28,610 Speaker 3: Gained the impression that they were trying to break it 115 00:09:28,650 --> 00:09:31,210 Speaker 3: to me gently, that Jim would be hill to blame. 116 00:09:32,770 --> 00:09:37,610 Speaker 1: Then they stopped calling at all. One spelled it out 117 00:09:37,650 --> 00:09:42,130 Speaker 1: as he stood in her doorway, Maria, I won't be 118 00:09:42,170 --> 00:09:44,970 Speaker 1: able to see you anymore. I've got to be with 119 00:09:45,010 --> 00:09:49,690 Speaker 1: the company. Jim had been a groomsman at his wedding, 120 00:09:53,810 --> 00:09:58,690 Speaker 1: but not all of Jim's mentors deserted him. One senior pilot, 121 00:09:58,770 --> 00:10:02,170 Speaker 1: who taught Jim to fly, told Maria. 122 00:10:02,410 --> 00:10:07,250 Speaker 3: This isn't Jim, Maria, this is not Jim's behavior. Something's wrong. 123 00:10:08,050 --> 00:10:10,050 Speaker 3: I'm going to find out. 124 00:10:11,810 --> 00:10:15,930 Speaker 1: Just as Maria Collins had feared. When the Chief Inspector 125 00:10:16,050 --> 00:10:21,010 Speaker 1: of Air Accidents published his investigation report, it left no 126 00:10:21,250 --> 00:10:25,210 Speaker 1: doubt that Jim was to blame. He had contravened the 127 00:10:25,290 --> 00:10:30,930 Speaker 1: regulations flying well below the minimum safe altitude of sixteen 128 00:10:31,050 --> 00:10:34,850 Speaker 1: thousand feet, and he had done so when the visibility 129 00:10:35,050 --> 00:10:39,330 Speaker 1: obviously wasn't good. You could tell that from the transcript 130 00:10:39,370 --> 00:10:44,130 Speaker 1: of the cockpit voice recording. It was damning. We heard 131 00:10:44,170 --> 00:10:49,330 Speaker 1: some of it earlier. Antarctic expert Peter mulgrew, not having 132 00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:53,770 Speaker 1: a clue where they were. At one point, just two 133 00:10:53,850 --> 00:10:58,890 Speaker 1: minutes before impact, a voice says, a bit thick here, Ahbert, 134 00:11:00,970 --> 00:11:04,130 Speaker 1: a bit thick. They must be referring to cloud right. 135 00:11:05,770 --> 00:11:09,450 Speaker 1: The report also mentioned some sort of error with the 136 00:11:09,530 --> 00:11:14,050 Speaker 1: waypoint coordinates, but that had been fixed before Colin's flight, 137 00:11:14,330 --> 00:11:17,970 Speaker 1: and anyway, it didn't matter. If Collins had kept to 138 00:11:18,010 --> 00:11:24,370 Speaker 1: the minimums safe altitude, he wouldn't have crashed, simple as that. Still, 139 00:11:24,970 --> 00:11:28,850 Speaker 1: a disaster this big couldn't be left to the Chief 140 00:11:28,890 --> 00:11:33,290 Speaker 1: Inspector of Air Accidents. There need to be a proper 141 00:11:33,690 --> 00:11:39,690 Speaker 1: formal inquiry with evidence given in public. The government appointed 142 00:11:39,730 --> 00:11:44,690 Speaker 1: a Judge Peter Marn to conduct a Royal commission, with 143 00:11:44,850 --> 00:11:50,410 Speaker 1: technical advice from a distinguished Air Marshal. Marn was no fool. 144 00:11:51,410 --> 00:11:55,730 Speaker 1: He understood that the Chief Inspector's report was convenient for 145 00:11:55,810 --> 00:12:00,810 Speaker 1: the government. Air New Zealand was state owned. If the 146 00:12:00,850 --> 00:12:05,570 Speaker 1: company had screwed up, the government could face expensive claims 147 00:12:05,610 --> 00:12:11,170 Speaker 1: for compensation. But if the pilot's screwed up insurance would 148 00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:15,650 Speaker 1: fit the bill. Marn knew the government hoped hid back 149 00:12:15,730 --> 00:12:20,170 Speaker 1: up the report, and the report did seem convincing. Marn 150 00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:21,490 Speaker 1: later recalled. 151 00:12:21,850 --> 00:12:25,850 Speaker 4: I presumed that after testing the evidence at first hand, 152 00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:30,450 Speaker 4: I would see no difficulty in confirming the Chief Inspector's opinion. 153 00:12:31,570 --> 00:12:35,810 Speaker 1: Still, though, if Jim Collins had known his flight path 154 00:12:35,850 --> 00:12:40,530 Speaker 1: took him straight towards a twelve thousand foot volcano, why 155 00:12:40,730 --> 00:12:44,650 Speaker 1: was he flying at fifteen hundred feet. Maybe it had 156 00:12:44,650 --> 00:12:48,410 Speaker 1: to do with that error in the waypoint coordinates. 157 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:54,930 Speaker 4: Marn recalls, I had the impression that there might be 158 00:12:54,970 --> 00:12:57,570 Speaker 4: a great deal more to this than was admitted on 159 00:12:57,610 --> 00:12:58,170 Speaker 4: the surface. 160 00:12:59,970 --> 00:13:05,730 Speaker 1: There was cautionary tales will be back after the break 161 00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:19,450 Speaker 1: on a normal flight that goes from A to B. 162 00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:25,650 Speaker 1: Your final waypoint is obvious. It's the destination airport that 163 00:13:25,770 --> 00:13:28,810 Speaker 1: air New Zealand sight seeing flights weren't going to land 164 00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:31,730 Speaker 1: in Antarctica. They were going to see some sights then 165 00:13:31,810 --> 00:13:35,930 Speaker 1: fly back home. So what to choose is the final 166 00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:40,530 Speaker 1: waypoint for their computerized flight path. In a way, it 167 00:13:40,570 --> 00:13:44,610 Speaker 1: didn't matter if visibility was good, they'd just fly around 168 00:13:44,610 --> 00:13:49,570 Speaker 1: for a bit. But the computer needed a waypoint, so 169 00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:53,890 Speaker 1: they picked a radio beacon near the American base at McMurdo. 170 00:13:54,490 --> 00:13:58,730 Speaker 1: It seemed as good a choice as any. Actually it 171 00:13:58,850 --> 00:14:02,210 Speaker 1: was stupid. It meant the flight path went right over 172 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:08,370 Speaker 1: an active volcano, Mount Erebus. Even stupider when Erebus was 173 00:14:08,410 --> 00:14:12,570 Speaker 1: between the plane and the base, the Americans wouldn't see 174 00:14:12,610 --> 00:14:15,170 Speaker 1: the plane on their radar, and you'd struggle to get 175 00:14:15,210 --> 00:14:19,210 Speaker 1: a connection on the radio. Then the flight path stored 176 00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:22,210 Speaker 1: in the company's computer was changed with a new waypoint 177 00:14:23,370 --> 00:14:27,810 Speaker 1: twenty five miles west, near the end of McMurdo Sound. 178 00:14:29,410 --> 00:14:33,210 Speaker 1: This was much more sensible. Now the flight path took 179 00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:37,850 Speaker 1: you over open water. For over a year, pilots of 180 00:14:37,890 --> 00:14:42,330 Speaker 1: the Antarctic flights got printouts with these sensible new coordinates. 181 00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:47,730 Speaker 1: But the night before Jim Collins flight, the final waypoint 182 00:14:47,930 --> 00:14:53,650 Speaker 1: was shifted back again, back over Mount Erebus, and nobody 183 00:14:53,850 --> 00:15:04,210 Speaker 1: told Jim Collins. The public hearings in Peter Mah's courtroom 184 00:15:04,410 --> 00:15:10,850 Speaker 1: began in July nineteen eighty seven, months after the air 185 00:15:10,930 --> 00:15:14,450 Speaker 1: New Zealand's lawyers told Man that the waypoint change was 186 00:15:14,450 --> 00:15:20,370 Speaker 1: irrelevant for two reasons. The first reason, they said, is 187 00:15:20,410 --> 00:15:23,370 Speaker 1: that Jim Collins would have been briefed that his flight 188 00:15:23,450 --> 00:15:27,250 Speaker 1: path went over Mount Erebus. You see, it might have 189 00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:31,130 Speaker 1: looked like a sensible decision to change the flight path 190 00:15:31,250 --> 00:15:35,610 Speaker 1: to over McMurdo Sound, but it wasn't. In fact, it 191 00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:40,410 Speaker 1: was a mistake, a typographical error when the coordinates got 192 00:15:40,450 --> 00:15:45,090 Speaker 1: transferred to a new computer system for over a year, 193 00:15:45,370 --> 00:15:50,490 Speaker 1: the airline said nobody noticed that mistake. The officer who 194 00:15:50,530 --> 00:15:54,690 Speaker 1: briefed the pilots told Peter marn that he always believed 195 00:15:54,730 --> 00:15:59,170 Speaker 1: the flight path went over Mount Erebus. The executive pilots 196 00:15:59,210 --> 00:16:03,610 Speaker 1: agreed nobody had ever noticed that the waypoint coordinates took 197 00:16:03,650 --> 00:16:08,890 Speaker 1: them over McMurdo Sound instead. Then Peter Mahn heard from 198 00:16:08,930 --> 00:16:13,250 Speaker 1: the non executive pilots who told a very different story. 199 00:16:14,130 --> 00:16:16,970 Speaker 1: They all said they had been briefed to fly down 200 00:16:17,050 --> 00:16:23,410 Speaker 1: McMurdo Sound. This all gave Peter Marn a problem. He 201 00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:26,370 Speaker 1: put it in diplomatic language. 202 00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:29,290 Speaker 4: I could not help but be struck by the direct 203 00:16:29,370 --> 00:16:31,850 Speaker 4: conflict of evidence which had emerged. 204 00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:40,250 Speaker 1: What he meant was someone was telling lies. Marn believed 205 00:16:40,330 --> 00:16:44,810 Speaker 1: the non executive pilots one had been at the same 206 00:16:44,930 --> 00:16:49,250 Speaker 1: briefing as Jim Collins. He told Marn there'd been shown 207 00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:54,010 Speaker 1: print outs of the coordinates given to other flights. Marn 208 00:16:54,130 --> 00:16:59,130 Speaker 1: understood what must have happened. Jim Collins, the habitual note taker, 209 00:16:59,890 --> 00:17:04,250 Speaker 1: wrote down the coordinates during the briefing. The night before 210 00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:08,690 Speaker 1: the flight, when his teenage daughters saw him drawing lines 211 00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:12,530 Speaker 1: on a map he was plotting his flight path. It 212 00:17:12,650 --> 00:17:17,530 Speaker 1: took him down Murdo Sound. Then, on the morning of 213 00:17:17,570 --> 00:17:20,650 Speaker 1: the flight, Collins was given a print out of the 214 00:17:20,690 --> 00:17:25,210 Speaker 1: coordinates to enter into the plane's computer. He assumed they 215 00:17:25,290 --> 00:17:27,890 Speaker 1: must be the same coordinates he had seen at his briefing. 216 00:17:28,090 --> 00:17:32,410 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't they be Remember when Colins said. 217 00:17:32,770 --> 00:17:34,610 Speaker 2: We're twenty six miles north. 218 00:17:35,850 --> 00:17:39,610 Speaker 1: Collins was looking at the cockpit display, which told him 219 00:17:39,730 --> 00:17:42,770 Speaker 1: he was twenty six miles north of the next waypoint. 220 00:17:43,610 --> 00:17:46,890 Speaker 1: Because he had plotted his route the night before. He 221 00:17:47,050 --> 00:17:50,290 Speaker 1: thought that meant he was over the water, but no, 222 00:17:50,730 --> 00:17:54,930 Speaker 1: the coordinates had been changed. It actually meant they were 223 00:17:54,970 --> 00:18:05,610 Speaker 1: about to hit a mountain. It seemed to Peter Marn 224 00:18:05,890 --> 00:18:10,410 Speaker 1: that Air New Zealand had made a hideous mistake. They'd 225 00:18:10,490 --> 00:18:14,890 Speaker 1: briefed Jim Collins on one flight path, then changed it 226 00:18:15,530 --> 00:18:19,090 Speaker 1: and didn't tell him, And it seemed to Marn that 227 00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:23,290 Speaker 1: they were trying to cover up their mistake by lying 228 00:18:23,370 --> 00:18:27,130 Speaker 1: that Collins had been briefed he'd be flying over Mount Erebus. 229 00:18:28,250 --> 00:18:32,650 Speaker 1: One piece of evidence would confirm what Collins had been 230 00:18:32,650 --> 00:18:38,410 Speaker 1: told that his briefing. The notes he had made. Colin's ringbinder, remember, 231 00:18:38,610 --> 00:18:42,130 Speaker 1: had been found on the mountain side, perfectly readable. 232 00:18:43,850 --> 00:18:44,090 Speaker 4: Wow. 233 00:18:45,130 --> 00:18:48,490 Speaker 1: But when Peter Marn got his hands on that ringbinder, 234 00:18:49,290 --> 00:18:55,330 Speaker 1: it was empty. The pages had been damaged by kerosene 235 00:18:55,730 --> 00:18:59,810 Speaker 1: and someone at Air New Zealand had thrown them away. 236 00:19:03,610 --> 00:19:07,130 Speaker 1: I said there were two reasons the airline claimed the 237 00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:12,250 Speaker 1: change in waypoint was irrelevant. So what if Jim Collins 238 00:19:12,290 --> 00:19:15,530 Speaker 1: believed his flight path lay twenty five miles west of 239 00:19:15,610 --> 00:19:19,970 Speaker 1: Mount Erebus, if he hadn't been flying too low, he 240 00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:25,010 Speaker 1: would still have passed safely over the top. The minimum 241 00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:30,770 Speaker 1: safe altitude, remember, was sixteen thousand feet. If Collins had 242 00:19:30,770 --> 00:19:35,010 Speaker 1: followed the regulations, he wouldn't have hit the mountain, simple 243 00:19:35,050 --> 00:19:42,170 Speaker 1: as that. So about those regulations, Peter Mahn noticed once 244 00:19:42,210 --> 00:19:45,970 Speaker 1: again that Air New Zealand's executives were saying one thing 245 00:19:46,770 --> 00:19:51,650 Speaker 1: and the non executive pilots were saying something else. The 246 00:19:51,730 --> 00:19:57,450 Speaker 1: executives insisted that the minimum safe altitude was sacrisanct. The 247 00:19:57,490 --> 00:20:01,770 Speaker 1: others said everyone knew those flights to Antarctica flew low. 248 00:20:02,090 --> 00:20:06,130 Speaker 1: They were sightseeing flights. You can't see many sights from 249 00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:12,570 Speaker 1: sixteen thousand feet. The non executive pilots told Peter Mann 250 00:20:12,770 --> 00:20:15,130 Speaker 1: they had been briefed that they could fly as low 251 00:20:15,170 --> 00:20:17,810 Speaker 1: as they wanted as long as they cleared it with 252 00:20:17,890 --> 00:20:22,370 Speaker 1: the American radar station at McMurdo, which is exactly what 253 00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:24,570 Speaker 1: Jim Collins had done. 254 00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:27,450 Speaker 2: We will be taking advantage of the raidar facilities at 255 00:20:27,490 --> 00:20:28,730 Speaker 2: McMurdo for letdown. 256 00:20:30,530 --> 00:20:35,170 Speaker 1: Once again, Petermann was struck by the lack of documentary 257 00:20:35,250 --> 00:20:39,290 Speaker 1: evidence about what had been said to Collins at his briefing. 258 00:20:40,610 --> 00:20:43,810 Speaker 1: It wasn't just the pages from Colin's ring binder, that 259 00:20:43,890 --> 00:20:49,090 Speaker 1: had mysteriously disappeared. The first officer had forgotten his briefing 260 00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:53,690 Speaker 1: notes at home. The day after the crash, someone from 261 00:20:53,770 --> 00:20:58,370 Speaker 1: Air New Zealand called on his grieving widow and took 262 00:20:58,450 --> 00:21:10,090 Speaker 1: those notes away. Then the company lost them. Soon after 263 00:21:10,130 --> 00:21:15,970 Speaker 1: the crash, the airline's CEO ordered that all relevant documents 264 00:21:16,210 --> 00:21:21,490 Speaker 1: be gathered together and surplus documents put through a shredder. 265 00:21:22,530 --> 00:21:26,250 Speaker 1: His rationale, he said, was to avoid any leaks. But 266 00:21:26,570 --> 00:21:31,370 Speaker 1: was it only surplus documents that were being shredded or 267 00:21:31,370 --> 00:21:38,370 Speaker 1: inconvenient ones. Some inconvenient documents remained at large, like magazine 268 00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:42,130 Speaker 1: articles about the sightseeing flights, which made it very clear 269 00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:47,050 Speaker 1: they were flying far lower than the minimum's safe altitude. 270 00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:51,690 Speaker 1: If that was strictly forbidden, Why had no executives taken 271 00:21:51,810 --> 00:21:56,570 Speaker 1: action after seeing these articles? The executive said, we never 272 00:21:56,610 --> 00:22:01,530 Speaker 1: saw them. We had no idea. One of those articles 273 00:22:01,650 --> 00:22:05,370 Speaker 1: was by the boss of the McDonell Douglas Corporation, which 274 00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:09,010 Speaker 1: made the plane that Air New Zealand flew to Antarctica. 275 00:22:09,930 --> 00:22:13,930 Speaker 1: In a trade magazine, he published an enthusiastic account of 276 00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:19,250 Speaker 1: flying low down McMurdo sound. He sent a copy to 277 00:22:19,330 --> 00:22:23,610 Speaker 1: the CEO of Air New Zealand. When the CEO gave 278 00:22:23,690 --> 00:22:28,290 Speaker 1: evidence in Peter Mann's courtroom, he insisted he had never 279 00:22:28,330 --> 00:22:32,290 Speaker 1: seen it. He doesn't read all his mail, he explained. 280 00:22:33,530 --> 00:22:39,170 Speaker 1: Then it transpired that Air New Zealand's marketing department had 281 00:22:39,170 --> 00:22:44,370 Speaker 1: printed a million copies of this article and sent one 282 00:22:44,610 --> 00:22:51,210 Speaker 1: to every household in New Zealand. Peter Mann asked the 283 00:22:51,250 --> 00:22:54,930 Speaker 1: CEO to explain. Marn recalled. 284 00:22:56,250 --> 00:23:00,650 Speaker 4: He gave no verbal answer. He simply turned towards me 285 00:23:00,930 --> 00:23:05,970 Speaker 4: and spread his arms outwards in a despairing gesture. He 286 00:23:06,090 --> 00:23:09,530 Speaker 4: was indicating his total lack of comprehension that such a 287 00:23:09,570 --> 00:23:13,330 Speaker 4: thing could have happened. I knew the feeling. 288 00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:22,690 Speaker 1: The airline's case was falling apart. Jim Collins did have 289 00:23:22,770 --> 00:23:26,290 Speaker 1: permission to fly low. He didn't know his flight path 290 00:23:26,330 --> 00:23:31,410 Speaker 1: went over Erebus. But there remained one final mystery to unravel. 291 00:23:32,490 --> 00:23:37,330 Speaker 1: How had Jim Collins failed to see Mount Erebus when 292 00:23:37,370 --> 00:23:41,970 Speaker 1: it was right in front of him. The answer seemed obvious, 293 00:23:42,290 --> 00:23:47,090 Speaker 1: Collins must have been flying through cloud. The transcript of 294 00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:51,810 Speaker 1: the cockpit voice recording was damning a bit thick here, Ahber, 295 00:23:53,370 --> 00:23:56,570 Speaker 1: but that line in the transcript came as a surprise 296 00:23:56,690 --> 00:24:01,010 Speaker 1: to other pilots who'd listened to the recording. The quality 297 00:24:01,050 --> 00:24:04,850 Speaker 1: of that recording was poor. Many parts were hard to 298 00:24:04,890 --> 00:24:10,490 Speaker 1: make out. They didn't remember hearing anything like that, and anyway, 299 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:16,370 Speaker 1: nobody on the flight deck was called Bert. Remember what 300 00:24:16,690 --> 00:24:19,730 Speaker 1: the police had found among the wreckage on the side 301 00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:26,210 Speaker 1: of the mountain. Passengers cameras, some were undamaged, and the 302 00:24:26,210 --> 00:24:30,610 Speaker 1: films inside were developed. They showed the plane hadn't been 303 00:24:30,610 --> 00:24:34,570 Speaker 1: in thick cloud at all, far from it. Jim Collins 304 00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:39,090 Speaker 1: had descended below the clouds and visibility was clear for 305 00:24:39,370 --> 00:24:46,730 Speaker 1: miles around. That made Petermann suspicious about the transcript, so 306 00:24:46,770 --> 00:24:50,450 Speaker 1: he flew to America to listen with an expert. The 307 00:24:50,570 --> 00:24:55,530 Speaker 1: quality was poor, but it didn't sound like bit thicker 308 00:24:55,770 --> 00:25:01,850 Speaker 1: a Bert. The expert thought he heard this is Cape byrd. 309 00:25:03,890 --> 00:25:08,490 Speaker 1: So Marn arranged to be flown to Antarctica, following the 310 00:25:08,570 --> 00:25:12,890 Speaker 1: exact same route as Jim Collins. At the moment of 311 00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:16,570 Speaker 1: the disputed line and the transcript man looked out of 312 00:25:16,610 --> 00:25:22,770 Speaker 1: the cockpit window, he saw a cape. It wasn't Cape Bird. 313 00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:26,530 Speaker 1: That was twenty five miles west on the flight path. 314 00:25:26,650 --> 00:25:31,290 Speaker 1: Jim Collins thought he was following, but by tragic coincidence. 315 00:25:31,570 --> 00:25:35,490 Speaker 1: This cape just happened to look very much like cape Bird. 316 00:25:36,610 --> 00:25:41,890 Speaker 1: It was confirmation bias twice over. The pilots assumed they 317 00:25:41,890 --> 00:25:45,250 Speaker 1: were flying over cape Bird, so they saw cape Bird. 318 00:25:45,810 --> 00:25:49,410 Speaker 1: The chief inspector assumed the pilots were flying through cloud, 319 00:25:50,130 --> 00:25:54,690 Speaker 1: so he heard a bit thicker a Bert. Still, though 320 00:25:55,330 --> 00:26:00,450 Speaker 1: that didn't solve the mystery, it deepened it. If visibility 321 00:26:00,530 --> 00:26:05,970 Speaker 1: was good, how on earth had Jim Collins failed to 322 00:26:06,170 --> 00:26:14,010 Speaker 1: see Mount Erebus Cautionary tales will be back in a moment. 323 00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:23,730 Speaker 1: Most of the senior pilots had turned their backs on 324 00:26:23,890 --> 00:26:28,570 Speaker 1: Jim Collins' widow, Maria, but one had not, the man 325 00:26:28,650 --> 00:26:30,730 Speaker 1: who taught Jim Collins to fly. 326 00:26:31,970 --> 00:26:36,810 Speaker 3: This isn't Jim Maria. This is not Jim's behavior. Something's wrong. 327 00:26:37,610 --> 00:26:38,610 Speaker 3: I'm going to find out. 328 00:26:40,290 --> 00:26:45,090 Speaker 1: The pilot's name was Gordon Vetti. He talked to experienced 329 00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:49,770 Speaker 1: Antarctic pilots who told him about a phenomenon called whiteout. 330 00:26:50,850 --> 00:26:54,970 Speaker 1: The Air New Zealand pilots who flew to Antarctica, including 331 00:26:55,090 --> 00:26:59,250 Speaker 1: Vetti himself, had never been there before, and nobody at 332 00:26:59,290 --> 00:27:03,770 Speaker 1: Air New Zealand had briefed them about whiteout. The more 333 00:27:03,850 --> 00:27:08,090 Speaker 1: Vetty learned the more horrified he became at the risk 334 00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:15,090 Speaker 1: hid unknown taken. White Out, Vetti discovered, is a peculiar 335 00:27:15,290 --> 00:27:20,530 Speaker 1: visual illusion that can happen in polar regions in overcast conditions. 336 00:27:21,410 --> 00:27:24,530 Speaker 1: When the land is white and the clouds are white 337 00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:28,890 Speaker 1: and the light shines in a certain way, you lose 338 00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:35,730 Speaker 1: all ability to perceive depth or distance. One expert told Vetti, 339 00:27:36,530 --> 00:27:40,730 Speaker 1: It's like being inside a big milk bottle. It can 340 00:27:40,770 --> 00:27:44,810 Speaker 1: come on suddenly and you don't necessarily realize that anything's 341 00:27:44,850 --> 00:27:47,930 Speaker 1: wrong until you walk into a snowbank, or fall into 342 00:27:47,930 --> 00:27:53,410 Speaker 1: a hole, or crash or plane into a frozen mountain. 343 00:27:58,890 --> 00:28:02,930 Speaker 1: Gordon Vetti understood what had happened in the final moments 344 00:28:02,970 --> 00:28:03,570 Speaker 1: of the flight. 345 00:28:04,770 --> 00:28:05,530 Speaker 3: I don't like this. 346 00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:10,690 Speaker 4: We're twenty six miles north. We'll have to climb. 347 00:28:10,450 --> 00:28:17,690 Speaker 1: Out of this, climb out of this. What did Jim 348 00:28:17,770 --> 00:28:22,330 Speaker 1: Collins want to climb out of? Vetti says it must 349 00:28:22,410 --> 00:28:26,850 Speaker 1: have been that disconcerting sense of being in a milk bottle. 350 00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:31,650 Speaker 1: Collins was below the cloud. He could see for miles 351 00:28:31,690 --> 00:28:35,610 Speaker 1: to the left and right, but he hadn't been briefed 352 00:28:35,610 --> 00:28:39,930 Speaker 1: about white out. He had no idea that right in 353 00:28:39,970 --> 00:28:43,090 Speaker 1: front of him he'd be unable to tell a flat 354 00:28:43,410 --> 00:28:47,890 Speaker 1: expanse of frozen water from the rising slopes of a 355 00:28:47,930 --> 00:28:52,770 Speaker 1: frozen hillside. It just have sensed that something was off, 356 00:28:53,610 --> 00:28:58,250 Speaker 1: so his instinct was to climb, but it was too late. 357 00:29:00,930 --> 00:29:02,850 Speaker 1: Vetty shudders to think of it. 358 00:29:04,290 --> 00:29:06,090 Speaker 3: If I had been in their position at that time, 359 00:29:07,610 --> 00:29:10,130 Speaker 3: I would probably have been misled the same respect as 360 00:29:10,170 --> 00:29:14,050 Speaker 3: they were, and now myself may well have crashed on 361 00:29:14,170 --> 00:29:14,810 Speaker 3: Mount Erebus. 362 00:29:18,530 --> 00:29:21,890 Speaker 1: Gordon Vetti wanted to make sure Peter Marn knew about 363 00:29:21,890 --> 00:29:24,850 Speaker 1: white out, so he flew in an expert at his 364 00:29:24,890 --> 00:29:30,010 Speaker 1: own expense, to give evidence to Marn's Royal Commission. Later, 365 00:29:30,490 --> 00:29:35,930 Speaker 1: when Marn himself visited Antarctica, the Australian Air Force offered 366 00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:41,410 Speaker 1: him a lift home. The crew were experienced Antarctic flyers 367 00:29:41,730 --> 00:29:44,810 Speaker 1: and they'd been following the news about Marn's Royal Commission. 368 00:29:46,090 --> 00:29:50,050 Speaker 1: They invited Marm to the cockpit for takeoff. They wanted 369 00:29:50,090 --> 00:29:58,330 Speaker 1: to show him something. The day was overcast. The pilots 370 00:29:58,650 --> 00:30:02,250 Speaker 1: flew towards a ridge of snow and pointed out how 371 00:30:02,290 --> 00:30:04,850 Speaker 1: it ended in a black, rocky outcrop. 372 00:30:06,290 --> 00:30:12,130 Speaker 4: Marn recalls could just make out the top of the ridge. 373 00:30:12,650 --> 00:30:16,410 Speaker 1: Then they told him, now raise your hand to cover 374 00:30:16,530 --> 00:30:18,250 Speaker 1: that black, rocky outcrop. 375 00:30:19,890 --> 00:30:24,410 Speaker 4: The top of the snow ridge disappeared, and stuntly. 376 00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:31,770 Speaker 1: All that Marn could see was undifferentiated white. He was stunned. 377 00:30:33,050 --> 00:30:35,730 Speaker 1: It was one thing to hear about white out from 378 00:30:35,770 --> 00:30:41,530 Speaker 1: an expert, quite another to experience it for himself. The 379 00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:52,850 Speaker 1: Australian crew were satisfied. That's the illusion that doomed Jim Collins. 380 00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:58,090 Speaker 1: Marn had spent months growing more and more frustrated that 381 00:30:58,250 --> 00:31:01,570 Speaker 1: Air New Zealand executives were trying to pull the wool 382 00:31:01,610 --> 00:31:06,570 Speaker 1: over his eyes. He appreciated that these young men from 383 00:31:06,570 --> 00:31:11,890 Speaker 1: another country's air force wanted to help him understand. When 384 00:31:11,890 --> 00:31:15,410 Speaker 1: he wrote up the findings of his Royal Commission, he 385 00:31:15,490 --> 00:31:23,130 Speaker 1: thanked every one of them by name and rank. Peter 386 00:31:23,250 --> 00:31:27,770 Speaker 1: Mahn's findings turned the Chief Inspector's report on its head. 387 00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:32,930 Speaker 1: The cause of the accident, said Marn, wasn't Jim Collins 388 00:31:32,970 --> 00:31:37,330 Speaker 1: flying too low. It was Air New Zealand failing to 389 00:31:37,330 --> 00:31:40,930 Speaker 1: brief him properly about the risk of whiteout, and failing 390 00:31:40,970 --> 00:31:44,690 Speaker 1: to tell him that they'd changed his waypoint coordinates between 391 00:31:44,810 --> 00:31:49,450 Speaker 1: the briefing and the flight. The Chief Inspector had heaped 392 00:31:49,570 --> 00:31:54,690 Speaker 1: all the blame on Jim Collins. Marn said Collins deserved 393 00:31:54,770 --> 00:32:03,250 Speaker 1: no blame at all. Not everyone agrees. On internet discussion boards, 394 00:32:03,690 --> 00:32:08,530 Speaker 1: pilots still expressed strong views either way. Did Collins rely 395 00:32:08,730 --> 00:32:11,970 Speaker 1: too much on the computerized navigation system to tell him 396 00:32:11,970 --> 00:32:15,690 Speaker 1: where he was? Peter Mann didn't think so. He points 397 00:32:15,730 --> 00:32:19,890 Speaker 1: out how accurate that system is, although perhaps we've since 398 00:32:19,970 --> 00:32:24,170 Speaker 1: grown more mistrustful of the idea that the machine could 399 00:32:24,250 --> 00:32:28,730 Speaker 1: never fly us into a mountain. The Distinguished Air Marshal, 400 00:32:28,810 --> 00:32:32,450 Speaker 1: who had served as Man's technical advisor, thought that the 401 00:32:32,530 --> 00:32:37,730 Speaker 1: judge had overstepped he reckoned Collins was maybe ten percent 402 00:32:37,930 --> 00:32:44,010 Speaker 1: to blame. As it happens, I too have strong views 403 00:32:44,090 --> 00:32:47,090 Speaker 1: on the question of how much to blame Jim Collins. 404 00:32:48,210 --> 00:32:52,330 Speaker 1: I think it's the wrong question. The right question, as 405 00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:56,290 Speaker 1: with every plane that crashes on this show, is what 406 00:32:56,490 --> 00:33:02,570 Speaker 1: can we learn. When you read Peter Man's report, you 407 00:33:02,610 --> 00:33:05,610 Speaker 1: get a sense that he's writing in a different era. 408 00:33:06,930 --> 00:33:10,690 Speaker 1: You can feel Mann groping to towards concepts that in 409 00:33:10,810 --> 00:33:15,930 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, accident investigators didn't yet have the vocabulary 410 00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:22,970 Speaker 1: to articulate concepts like cognitive biases and human factors. Such 411 00:33:23,130 --> 00:33:27,450 Speaker 1: concepts have since been popularized by thinkers such as James Reason, 412 00:33:27,930 --> 00:33:33,650 Speaker 1: a psychologist and expert on human error. Both Peter Mann 413 00:33:33,770 --> 00:33:37,570 Speaker 1: and Gordon Vetti instinctively grasped an idea that was then 414 00:33:38,050 --> 00:33:44,050 Speaker 1: very new, that organizational failings can set a trap into 415 00:33:44,050 --> 00:33:48,450 Speaker 1: which even the most skilled of pilots might fall. James 416 00:33:48,490 --> 00:33:52,530 Speaker 1: Reason said that the Man Report was ten years ahead 417 00:33:52,570 --> 00:33:59,890 Speaker 1: of its time. Peter Mann was a subtle and elegant writer. 418 00:34:00,850 --> 00:34:04,010 Speaker 1: You'll often find him raising an eyebrow through his prose, 419 00:34:04,770 --> 00:34:08,610 Speaker 1: making it clear what he thinks without spelling it out. 420 00:34:09,810 --> 00:34:13,170 Speaker 1: When he wrote up his commission's findings, he could have 421 00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:17,170 Speaker 1: crafted a memorable turn of phrase that left no doubt 422 00:34:17,890 --> 00:34:22,490 Speaker 1: air New Zealand executives had lied to him without actually 423 00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:30,810 Speaker 1: saying it. But Marn was too angry to pull his punches. Instead, 424 00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:35,810 Speaker 1: he crafted a memorable turn of phrase that made the 425 00:34:35,850 --> 00:34:37,570 Speaker 1: accusation explicit. 426 00:34:39,050 --> 00:34:42,850 Speaker 4: I am forced reluctantly to say that I had to 427 00:34:42,890 --> 00:34:46,610 Speaker 4: listen to an orchestrated litany of lies. 428 00:34:47,770 --> 00:34:58,250 Speaker 1: An orchestrated litany of lies. Devastating, satisfying, but unwise. Marn 429 00:34:58,370 --> 00:35:01,370 Speaker 1: was a judge, but he wasn't writing as a judge. 430 00:35:01,770 --> 00:35:06,050 Speaker 1: He was writing as a Royal commissioner that mattered. The 431 00:35:06,170 --> 00:35:09,730 Speaker 1: verdicts of a judge can be appealed. There was no 432 00:35:09,850 --> 00:35:13,730 Speaker 1: legal mechanism to appeal the findings of a royal commission 433 00:35:14,610 --> 00:35:16,770 Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine that Air New Zealand would have 434 00:35:16,770 --> 00:35:18,450 Speaker 1: got far if they could have appealed. 435 00:35:18,850 --> 00:35:20,410 Speaker 4: What would they have said? 436 00:35:20,450 --> 00:35:24,690 Speaker 1: That it was an improvised litany of lies, a choreographed 437 00:35:24,730 --> 00:35:30,130 Speaker 1: cacophony of cock ups. The point was that they couldn't appeal. 438 00:35:31,330 --> 00:35:34,850 Speaker 1: Air New Zealand's lawyers found a clever way to fight back. 439 00:35:35,570 --> 00:35:39,410 Speaker 1: They took Marm to court for breaching the principles of 440 00:35:39,530 --> 00:35:43,290 Speaker 1: natural justice by accusing the company of a cover up 441 00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:46,650 Speaker 1: in a way that gave them no right to respond. 442 00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:51,250 Speaker 1: The case went to the Privy Council, the highest court 443 00:35:51,530 --> 00:35:55,410 Speaker 1: in the land. The Privy Council bent over backwards to 444 00:35:55,490 --> 00:36:01,490 Speaker 1: praise Marm's investigative work. Brilliant, they said, but agreed that 445 00:36:01,650 --> 00:36:08,410 Speaker 1: Air New Zealand had a point. Legally Marn had overstepped. 446 00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:15,130 Speaker 1: Marn was devastated. He resigned as a judge. His health 447 00:36:15,210 --> 00:36:20,410 Speaker 1: declined rapidly, and he died soon after, aged just sixty two. 448 00:36:22,010 --> 00:36:26,650 Speaker 1: The legal wrangles created just enough MRK to let Air 449 00:36:26,730 --> 00:36:32,050 Speaker 1: new Zealand Wriggle off the hook. It wasn't until twenty nineteen, 450 00:36:33,010 --> 00:36:37,850 Speaker 1: the fortieth anniversary of the disaster, that New Zealand's government 451 00:36:38,250 --> 00:36:44,530 Speaker 1: formally accepted Marn's report and apologized for Air New Zealand's 452 00:36:44,610 --> 00:36:49,850 Speaker 1: role in the crash. Gordon Vetti, too, found that Air 453 00:36:49,970 --> 00:36:53,330 Speaker 1: New Zealand were in no mood to forgive and forget 454 00:36:53,450 --> 00:36:57,570 Speaker 1: his research into Whiteout. He says, I'd hoped that we 455 00:36:57,650 --> 00:37:00,890 Speaker 1: might all be able to admit that in ignorance they 456 00:37:00,890 --> 00:37:04,490 Speaker 1: made a terrible mistake and get on with rebuilding and 457 00:37:04,570 --> 00:37:10,890 Speaker 1: learning from our mistakes. Nopevett hounded out of his job. 458 00:37:12,290 --> 00:37:14,930 Speaker 3: I am somewhat said that the price I've had to 459 00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:18,570 Speaker 3: pay for my attempts to find the truth has been 460 00:37:18,730 --> 00:37:20,450 Speaker 3: much greater than I expected. 461 00:37:22,850 --> 00:37:26,730 Speaker 1: Gordon Vetti and Peter Marn are the heroes of the 462 00:37:26,810 --> 00:37:32,010 Speaker 1: Erebus affair, But if the question is what can we learn, 463 00:37:33,290 --> 00:37:37,570 Speaker 1: perhaps they too have something to teach us. From Gordon 464 00:37:37,690 --> 00:37:41,410 Speaker 1: Vetti we get the sad lesson that seeking the truth 465 00:37:42,010 --> 00:37:48,490 Speaker 1: can make you powerful enemies. And from Peter Marn, tempting 466 00:37:48,730 --> 00:37:53,890 Speaker 1: as it is to speak the truth, sometimes it's wiser 467 00:37:53,930 --> 00:38:06,810 Speaker 1: to let the truth speak for itself. For a full 468 00:38:06,890 --> 00:38:10,690 Speaker 1: list of our sources, see the show not at Timharford 469 00:38:10,850 --> 00:38:19,330 Speaker 1: dot com. Cautionary Tales is written by me Tim Harford 470 00:38:19,530 --> 00:38:24,090 Speaker 1: with Andrew Wright, Alice Fines, and Ryan Dilly. It's produced 471 00:38:24,090 --> 00:38:28,250 Speaker 1: by Georgia Mills and Marilyn Rust. The sound design and 472 00:38:28,330 --> 00:38:32,330 Speaker 1: original music are the work of Pascal Wise. Additional sound 473 00:38:32,330 --> 00:38:37,130 Speaker 1: design by Carlos San Juan at Brain Audio and Dan Jackson. 474 00:38:38,050 --> 00:38:41,770 Speaker 1: Bend A. Dafh Haffrey edited the scripts. It features the 475 00:38:41,810 --> 00:38:47,210 Speaker 1: voice talents of Melanie Guttridge, Genevieve Gaunt, Stella Harford, Messee Munroe, 476 00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:52,610 Speaker 1: Jamal Westman, and Rufus Wright. The show also wouldn't have 477 00:38:52,650 --> 00:38:56,130 Speaker 1: been possible without the work of Jacob Weisberg, Greta Cohne, 478 00:38:56,490 --> 00:39:02,890 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Carrie Brody, Christina Sullivan, Kira Posey, and Owen Miller. 479 00:39:03,970 --> 00:39:07,810 Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales is a production of Pushkin Industries. 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