Speaker 1: CAUs Media.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, it's James and today I've got a two
Speaker 2: part episode for you. Initially, I'd planned to have my
Speaker 2: friend Emmett and Dave talk to me about the shelters
Speaker 2: that we've all been building in Acumba because the weather's
Speaker 2: getting worse and worse. But we were able to connect
Speaker 2: with Amos, who is one of the migrants who has
Speaker 2: spent time in outdoor detention sadly and then in indoor
Speaker 2: detentions you'll hear, and I really wanted to sort of
Speaker 2: refocus this episode on sharing Amos's story because I think,
Speaker 2: as I've said countless times right that if we don't
Speaker 2: spend a migrants in our reporting about migration, then we're
Speaker 2: doing it wrong. And so you will hear introductions from Dave,
Speaker 2: and you will hear introductions from Emmett, and you'll heard
Speaker 2: a little bit from them next episode about how we're
Speaker 2: building the yes but we'll bring you that episode another
Speaker 2: time because I wanted this episode to be mostly about
Speaker 2: Amos's migration journey. Hello everybody, it's me James. I am
Speaker 2: hosting It could Happen here today again, and I'm joined
Speaker 2: by my friends Amos and Emmett and potentially later our
Speaker 2: friend David. We're going to talk today again about the
Speaker 2: situation in Hitecomba. Amos is one of the people who
Speaker 2: we've detained in the outdoor detention sites, and it's going
Speaker 2: to explain some of his experience. And then Emmittt is
Speaker 2: someone who has been working with a group of people,
Speaker 2: including myself, to build shelters for migrants, to build slightly
Speaker 2: more permanent, slightly more improved shelters. Unfortunately, Bottom Control has
Speaker 2: taken upon themselves to instruct migrants to destroy those shelters.
Speaker 2: And so we're going to talk about how we built them,
Speaker 2: what we learn when we're building them, and unfortunately the
Speaker 2: fact that they have been destroyed. So I'm going to
Speaker 2: ask our three guests to introduce themselves. David is here now,
Speaker 2: so we'll start with you Amos, and then Emmett and
Speaker 2: then David. Just tell us who you are and anything
Speaker 2: you think is right limit about yourself.
Speaker 1: So I guess thank you for the invite. I appreciate
Speaker 1: the opportunity to to add whatever I can to this
Speaker 1: very very important subject. I happen to be. I call
Speaker 1: myself an accidental and legal immigrant, if you want to
Speaker 1: put it that way for due to some family circumstances,
Speaker 1: I found myself following the new migratory road, I mean
Speaker 1: road that has taken me through. I lost count ten
Speaker 1: or twelve countries starting from North Africa all the way
Speaker 1: to the border with the United States. So that's me
Speaker 1: and uh what you know? I mean, I would I
Speaker 1: would love nothing more but to add to this conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you him. My name is Emmitt. I am a
Speaker 1: volunteer with Berlin's Release Collective.
Speaker 2: And then David, would you like to finish up introducing yourself.
Speaker 3: Hi, my name's David. I'm a volunteer with Borderlands Relief
Speaker 3: Collective as well as Attention Resistance, I do water drops
Speaker 3: and I've also been helping out as a volunteer in
Speaker 3: the Border Patrol open air detention sites, doing work as
Speaker 3: a medic and helping out building these shelters.
Speaker 1: Great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much everyone. So, I
Speaker 2: think everyone will be interested in hearing Amos's story. So
Speaker 2: as far as you're comfortable sharing, Amos, and there's no
Speaker 2: need to share anything that you're not comfortable with or
Speaker 2: don't want to share, can you tell us about your
Speaker 2: journey from North Africa to the United States, and I
Speaker 2: think we've been particularly interested in how people are finding
Speaker 2: out about these obviously these big gaps in the wall
Speaker 2: that are in Cucumber, and how people are ending up
Speaker 2: there from all over the world.
Speaker 1: Now right, well, buckle up a long journey, James, It's
Speaker 1: a long one. So for me personally, it started with
Speaker 1: a sort of an accidental separation from my family. My
Speaker 1: wife and kids for reasons importunate reasons, had to go
Speaker 1: to go back to the United States, and I was not.
Speaker 1: I was denied a visa to join them. They went
Speaker 1: for initially for to mourn the law the loss of
Speaker 1: a brother in law, I mean a brother in law,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately I wasn't able to get there by obtaining
Speaker 1: a visa to do so. So I spent six seven
Speaker 1: months arguing with the embassy. Was not given any legal
Speaker 1: reasoning for wide my visa was denied. I've lived in
Speaker 1: the United States for the sixteen years. I've had a
Speaker 1: Clington record with one arrest and release and it was
Speaker 1: part of a protest that really that happened in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles and were released right away, and basically I left
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. I'd got to think the clean hands
Speaker 1: and no issues and then going back to Tunisia where
Speaker 1: I was with my new family anyhow. So basically I
Speaker 1: was denied visa I really wanted to do. I've never
Speaker 1: done anything illegal in my life. I wanted to do
Speaker 1: the legal route, following what's been always told that, you know,
Speaker 1: follow their legal route, don't come illegally. So that was
Speaker 1: not even a question in my mind. You know, you know,
Speaker 1: the wife is American, the kids are American. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just it shouldn't be an issue. But I really
Speaker 1: was confronted with I mean, I can safely say bye
Speaker 1: by now it's a bias. It's got to be some
Speaker 1: racism just by by by deduction really, because when you
Speaker 1: run out of reasoning, you have to really start making
Speaker 1: these sad and you know said conclusions. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: basically no again, that was that took me on a
Speaker 1: long and painful depression and anxiety and a cocktail of
Speaker 1: mental health issues that I'm still actually dealing with right now.
Speaker 1: And it took my kids, my two kids, my beautiful kids,
Speaker 1: through therapy and they're still going through therapy. My wife
Speaker 1: is going through therapy. I'm going through therapy, and it
Speaker 1: took it blew apart in this family. We're still trying
Speaker 1: to figure out why so much you know nothing but
Speaker 1: to define it. But hey, really there is no other
Speaker 1: way of putting it. So and again I just the
Speaker 1: discussion was with my friends in America has been very
Speaker 1: difficult because they have no understanding or concept of what
Speaker 1: you know, the diplomat whore is doing and what is
Speaker 1: the these embassies are doing because there is no there
Speaker 1: is no access to them by Americans. It's just usually
Speaker 1: foreigners who do and that really creates like this black
Speaker 1: hole of tax money going to these embassies. And then
Speaker 1: what they're doing is just just with a stroke of
Speaker 1: a pen, yes, yes or no, no explanation. You can't sue,
Speaker 1: you can't appeal, you can't do. It's absolute power. And
Speaker 1: then you know, I'm I'm mentioning this that the embassy
Speaker 1: is because through my journey, through this long and painful journey,
Speaker 1: I've met time and time again other fellow immigrants who
Speaker 1: again tried to go through the LEAGUEA route were denied
Speaker 1: with no reason, with no like, no written reason, no
Speaker 1: no valid reason. So again you know, this this discussion
Speaker 1: on on on and off again, and you know, among
Speaker 1: consitizens as to why people are showing up in the border, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, at least in part, what I see is
Speaker 1: no accountability whatsoever to the embassies. Like time and time again,
Speaker 1: you have these embassies denying people who are trying to
Speaker 1: do it the right way, trying to do it. They
Speaker 1: either have family or work or whatever, and they're denied
Speaker 1: time and time again. And then you have, you know,
Speaker 1: in the hundreds of thousands going through that process, and
Speaker 1: of course they try, they try, and then eventually they
Speaker 1: have no choice. So I'm not saying this is the
Speaker 1: only explanation, but it's a big part of it. I've
Speaker 1: spoken for people who are crossing and who are on
Speaker 1: the way from anywhere from Brazil to Colombia to Ecuador,
Speaker 1: to Panama, to Nicaragua, to Guatemala, to Belize, in Mexico
Speaker 1: all across. I've come across so many people and they,
Speaker 1: you know, at least I mean, my little humble mass
Speaker 1: I would say fifty to sixty percent have tried to embassies,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately, you know that, you know that they just
Speaker 1: turned down. So, uh, this is an issue that is
Speaker 1: not talked about. This is an issue they really get
Speaker 1: away with. Scott Free, I mean, they really don't. There's
Speaker 1: zero cond of I mean there are gods. I mean,
Speaker 1: the ambassador have zero accountability now, I mean he he
Speaker 1: is absolutely he has all the power and no cannability.
Speaker 1: I mean, rarely you see ambassador being recalled by Congress.
Speaker 1: Rarely you see an ambassador being questioned, Hey, why are
Speaker 1: these these are demands being the the client, why what
Speaker 1: are you doing about it? All that stuff? And you know, so,
Speaker 1: so this is this is some of the stuff I
Speaker 1: want to add to the conversation because nobody has ever
Speaker 1: mentioned this. Nobody talks about this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, yeah, it's very important. I think your experiences
Speaker 2: is far from unique, as you've said, right, I have
Speaker 2: seen hundreds of people carrying visa rejection letters come across
Speaker 2: the sad and border. They've in them to me, right,
Speaker 2: they are people who have been victims of some of
Speaker 2: the worst things that can happen to human beings, and
Speaker 2: they've survived them, and we've still refused to give these
Speaker 2: people a safe place, so they've had to take their
Speaker 2: journey in a more dangerous way.
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't see a single round person at
Speaker 1: the embassy. It's all right again, I'm I hope you
Speaker 1: guys don't feel like I've been like too. I'm just
Speaker 1: being honest because I see it, and I'm I'm up
Speaker 1: to date of what people are talking about and all
Speaker 1: the discussions, and I see it, like you know, I
Speaker 1: almost have a level of a of a right wing
Speaker 1: supremacy style, like you know, I mean, just you feel it.
Speaker 1: You feel it. It's there. You have to be a
Speaker 1: quote unquote round person or a minority person to feel it.
Speaker 1: I don't expect others to understand it, but we we
Speaker 1: feel it. And this is a discussion I've had in
Speaker 1: detention with a lot of the fellow detainees. There is
Speaker 1: that sense, there's a sense that, you know, we're being
Speaker 1: looked down at, not on our merits, but on you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit of you know, assumptions because of where
Speaker 1: you're from. Assumptions like you go in and it's already baked.
Speaker 1: It's already baked. It's already And this is me. I've
Speaker 1: had a visa from the US for sixteen years. I mean,
Speaker 1: it should be a slam dunk, you know. So my
Speaker 1: two kids are American, my wife, my wife is American.
Speaker 1: We are and til today are so confused as to
Speaker 1: why the denials happened. I mean, I've called Congress members
Speaker 1: that David was with me today when I was at
Speaker 1: the Congress Membership Shift Adam Shift in Bourbon, California, and
Speaker 1: we you know, even they don't have an answer as
Speaker 1: to why the denial happened. And you know, I mean
Speaker 1: to close my personal issue, James. It's interesting because I
Speaker 1: was told that perhaps you were illegally in the United
Speaker 1: States between twenty thirteen twenty fifteen and then, but they
Speaker 1: can't say for sure that was the reason. But in
Speaker 1: detention when they when they did all the research on me,
Speaker 1: none of that existed, none of that, There is none
Speaker 1: of that. They released me because they have nothing against me. Nothing.
Speaker 1: And this is and this is the USCIES. This is
Speaker 1: the Immigration Service, not the embassy coming up with some
Speaker 1: of these you know, bogus ideas. You know, so again
Speaker 1: it's a mess, and I feel like, you know this,
Speaker 1: this these embassies need to be looking into more because
Speaker 1: the border patrol ends up feeling the blunt of all this.
Speaker 1: But where does it start? Where is the source? It's
Speaker 1: always the question of where is the source. Where the
Speaker 1: source is, Yes, there's economic issues, there is there is
Speaker 1: there is physical abuse. There's all kinds of stuff. But
Speaker 1: then also there's tax dollars being spent in the billions
Speaker 1: and the billions and hundreds of billions of these diplomatic course.
Speaker 1: I mean to be fair, my journey was not was
Speaker 1: not as difficult as many many, many, many many stories
Speaker 1: that I've heard heart women, I mean really heartbreaking stories.
Speaker 1: My journey really, you know, I'm I'm somewhat to have
Speaker 1: a somewhat of a sophisticated life in the sense that
Speaker 1: you know, I spent a lot of time again, we wasted.
Speaker 1: Most of the time that we wasted was waiting on
Speaker 1: the embassy because they kept on dragon and dragging their feet,
Speaker 1: six seven months waiting while my kids are crying on
Speaker 1: the phone, and you know, we don't have the income
Speaker 1: to to be to able to have them come back
Speaker 1: to to to Tunisia where I was. So anyhow, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I started by researching, researching, reading a lot of articles,
Speaker 1: researching as far as North Africa. The route that is
Speaker 1: being used right now by mostly by a lot of
Speaker 1: Mauritanians and West Africans. It goes through Turkey, uh and
Speaker 1: then from Turkey they're going to Nicaragua because Nicaragua. Managua,
Speaker 1: the capital of Nicaragua, they have allowed for visa and arrival,
Speaker 1: and then from and then from Managua there is literally
Speaker 1: almost like travel companies doing packaging packages for upwards to
Speaker 1: six seven thousand dollars from there to and then six
Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars from Nicarago. But before Nicaragua there's at
Speaker 1: least three four thousand dollars, so I'm told by I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: the four Mauritanians that were detained, I'm told about ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which comes down to their local currency, about
Speaker 1: forty five thousand of their local currency, which is a lot,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot. So they so, like I said,
Speaker 1: so they managed to get the flights to Nicaragua. Managua
Speaker 1: has vis on an arrival for thirty days for North Africans,
Speaker 1: and then from there you've got literally their journey through
Speaker 1: I don't know, coyotes whatever you want to call them,
Speaker 1: facilitators whatever, well established with buses through El Salvador, through
Speaker 1: what Honduras, Honduras and Salvador, Guatemala, and then through Mexico.
Speaker 1: So that's the route that's been you know, upwards of
Speaker 1: six seven thousand more Tennians and West Africans as far
Speaker 1: as the last articles that I've read have taken that route,
Speaker 1: so I looked into it. I couldn't afford it, to
Speaker 1: be honest with you, this is just you know, I
Speaker 1: was sending money to my kids and wife because she
Speaker 1: had to be on welfare. She just arrived there and
Speaker 1: she had to kill the kids at school and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of struggle, so I had to kind of
Speaker 1: try to help with that. On the same time, I
Speaker 1: was waiting on the embassy and we you know, and
Speaker 1: the wife was calling them to see if how can
Speaker 1: we expedite, can we do this, can we do this?
Speaker 1: But they were literally rude and you know, treated her
Speaker 1: like a second class citizen. I don't know why. We
Speaker 1: still can't figure that out.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Anyhow, So another route right now, which is a difficult route,
Speaker 1: is through Brazil because Brazil has a I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys know, and I think they do that
Speaker 1: for Americans too. Yeah, so Brazil has sort of I
Speaker 1: don't know the word, but the equivalence to them is
Speaker 1: if you impose the visa on Brazil, Brazilians will impulsive
Speaker 1: vision news. They do that to Americans too. So so
Speaker 1: you know where I'm from. They don't have a visa
Speaker 1: to uh as far as for Brazilians, so we don't.
Speaker 1: So a lot of Africans can go to Brazil and
Speaker 1: from Brazil take the route all the way. So David
Speaker 1: mentioned the Amazon Strait where they crossed the jungle from
Speaker 1: Colombia to Panama and so on and so forth. That
Speaker 1: is I mean, I'm yes, the Darian the famous Darian Act.
Speaker 1: That is to me personal. Man, it gives me chills
Speaker 1: because the two or three guys that one of them
Speaker 1: did it on his own with Google Maps. Man, I
Speaker 1: don't know how the hell he did it. I have
Speaker 1: no clue how he did it. I am. I was
Speaker 1: listening and trying to understand them. Oh it was just
Speaker 1: heart heartbreaking, you know, the suffering. So but yeah, I
Speaker 1: through Brazil and then Colombia and then and keep on
Speaker 1: going that way. That's another route for me. Uh. Again,
Speaker 1: I booked flights. Uh, I didn't go through that trouble
Speaker 1: to be fair, but I've had some issues with vy
Speaker 1: is because North Africas don't get a lot of visa
Speaker 1: access around the Latin America. We don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of embassies there we don't have a lot of trade.
Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of commerce between our countries,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of an unknown UH an unknown commodity
Speaker 1: in the sense that you know everything is is, you
Speaker 1: know is new UH. For me, I was able to
Speaker 1: get a visa to Colombia, and I'm very grateful to
Speaker 1: choose Colombia because it's a it's affordable. It's been a
Speaker 1: good experience for myself to get out of UH, me
Speaker 1: get closer and on the same time figure out the
Speaker 1: lay of the land and understand where I'm going. So
Speaker 1: those I'm grateful for that. And from there, my goal
Speaker 1: was to get a visa to Mexico and a lot
Speaker 1: of and most of my American friends are still confused.
Speaker 1: That's why I would need a Mexican visa. That's a
Speaker 1: whole other discussion. And then the Mexican visa has become
Speaker 1: extremely difficult, almost as difficult as the American visa because
Speaker 1: of pressure from the United States to stop the flow.
Speaker 1: So again we end up making it very difficult for
Speaker 1: people who want to legitimately do this. So finding an
Speaker 1: appointment for a Mexican embassy, then you find out which
Speaker 1: embassy of Mexico has appointments available. Some of them don't
Speaker 1: have ever, some of them have them two years from now.
Speaker 1: Some of them have them, you know, for a particular visa,
Speaker 1: but not the other. And you know, so for me,
Speaker 1: it was Colombia, and then I found an appointment in
Speaker 1: for Mexican visa and Belize, but unfortunately I ended up
Speaker 1: in you know, going from Colombia to Panama to Nicaragua
Speaker 1: to Guatemala and then Belieze because Belize has not a
Speaker 1: lot of flights from Latin America. And then when I
Speaker 1: got to Guatemala, all the previous countries allowed me to
Speaker 1: transit without a problem, but Guatemala decided to put me
Speaker 1: in a detention for almost forty hours and then wanted
Speaker 1: to return me back to to original country because they yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, I'm, I'm I'm My plane departs a
Speaker 1: few hours of going to Belize. Why are you doing this? Please?
Speaker 1: I'm not only the visit so to Guatemala. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to Guatemala, nothing, no discussion. They threw me in there, cockroaches,
Speaker 1: you name it. The whole Enchilada. I mean, no food,
Speaker 1: no water, no nothing. I mean, you know, it's just sad,
Speaker 1: very sad, very sad, very sad. That was a really
Speaker 1: verd And then so I was sent back to Panama,
Speaker 1: then from Panama to Colombia, and then Colombia that was
Speaker 1: going to send me back to North Africa. So it
Speaker 1: was going to be a really mess. So I had
Speaker 1: to use some of my customer service skills that have
Speaker 1: run through the years to wiggle myself where I last
Speaker 1: minute was able to help some friends buy a ticket
Speaker 1: to like you know, in the midnight hour. Really they
Speaker 1: were going to send me. So I bought a ticket
Speaker 1: to Ecuador, where I had a visa for ninety days.
Speaker 1: So I was able to get out of that mess,
Speaker 1: stay in Couador for a couple of weeks and then
Speaker 1: try to get to Belize again. And the next time
Speaker 1: I was successful in going to Belize through Panama and
Speaker 1: then uh Nicaraguo, then straight to Belieze, avoiding Guatemala and
Speaker 1: then Believe. I was there for a couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: and then I was able to get a visa to Mexico,
Speaker 1: thank God. And uh, there was a lot of Russians,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of Turks, There was a lot
Speaker 1: of no no, no Turks, Russians and a lot of
Speaker 1: East Europeans trying to get a visa there too for
Speaker 1: Mexico and basically yea. From there, it was the journey
Speaker 1: of taking a bus from Belize to Cancun, can Coun
Speaker 1: to Monterey, Monterrey to Cabo. I found a job, a
Speaker 1: volunteering job in Porto es Condido. I'm a yoga practitioner,
Speaker 1: and I found a yoga retreat there to try to
Speaker 1: help me with my mental health and all that stuff. So,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, So they're doing a great job. It's in
Speaker 1: the middle of the wilderness. They're really present, you know,
Speaker 1: working on natural preservation and in beautiful job they're doing there.
Speaker 1: And then from there Goble's Lucas Lucas. I volunteered at
Speaker 1: a hotel to kind of be able to eat and sleep,
Speaker 1: and then from there Tijuana and Tijuana. I met someone
Speaker 1: earlier in can Con, a Colombian who was all the
Speaker 1: time I was in Mexico, I was trying to do
Speaker 1: the app, the c if you we want app.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and how was your experience with that?
Speaker 1: Because absolutely absolutely horrible, absolutely horrible, absolutely horrible. I mean
Speaker 1: it's just basically useless. It's useless and I met people
Speaker 1: who have been there for two months on the app
Speaker 1: and it didn't work.
Speaker 2: Explain to me what didn't work about it? Like, did
Speaker 2: it lok you out?
Speaker 1: Did it? I wish I can send you screen. I
Speaker 1: have screenshots that can send you to you can understand
Speaker 1: what so. So it tells you, it tells you, it
Speaker 1: tells you you're you're So, you sign up, you put
Speaker 1: your information, you passport and all that stuff, and then
Speaker 1: basically what you're doing is you're you're in the queue
Speaker 1: and it's there's like a lot system where they didn't
Speaker 1: see how long you've been waiting, how old are you,
Speaker 1: where are you from. There's like a lottery system that
Speaker 1: randomly selects people. So but again, you know, out of
Speaker 1: a close to one hundred people in my detention cell,
Speaker 1: you know room, everybody's saying we all tried, and none
Speaker 1: of them, you know, got an appointment. I mean everybody
Speaker 1: wants an appointment. I mean, who's in the rights, who's
Speaker 1: in the right in his right mind would choose to
Speaker 1: forego an appointment and go do throughout that trouble. So,
Speaker 1: and if we could do a little bit of a math. Eventually,
Speaker 1: at some point I spoke to the supervisor of the
Speaker 1: Border Patrol detention center and he told me there eighteen
Speaker 1: hundred people at any given point in that place. So
Speaker 1: out of eighteen hundred people, and if my cell there
Speaker 1: was about six cells or something or more than that
Speaker 1: much more, much more the six cells and then four blocks,
Speaker 1: I think, sonyah, So uh yeah, I mean if about
Speaker 1: out of one hundred, then you have nobody was able
Speaker 1: to use the app then what's what's what's the tell?
Speaker 1: Tell out of the eighteen hundred, maybe nine percent, I
Speaker 1: mean all of them really, because if they did have appointment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if they had appointments, there would have been not in there, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the key.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So, I mean it's just a flawed system. I was
Speaker 1: telling my wife yesterday, that's like a lipstick on a pig,
Speaker 1: because you know, you're just trying to make it look
Speaker 1: because you're doing something, but it's really it's really like
Speaker 1: there's nothing being done about it and anyhow, So I'm
Speaker 1: still dazed and confused. I mean, I'm, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to understand the situation. So I literally I was the
Speaker 1: last one to get in and literally I'm sitting there
Speaker 1: and I'm standing there at the border itself, at the
Speaker 1: the wall, and I'm like, what's going on? Where is
Speaker 1: the border patrol? Where is the port of entry? Where
Speaker 1: is this? I'm not confused.
Speaker 2: After finding himself unable to make an appointment through CBP one,
Speaker 2: I must have decided to make his way to Accumber
Speaker 2: like thousands of other migrants. And I think it's worth
Speaker 2: pointing out here that nothing that he has done up
Speaker 2: to this point is breaking any laws. Right, It's not
Speaker 2: illegal to drive around in Mexico. It's not illegal to
Speaker 2: approach the border from the south. All of this stuff
Speaker 2: is the legal way to move around. No, no crimes
Speaker 2: have been committed. And it is of course legal to
Speaker 2: cross the border and present yourself asylum immediately upon doing so,
Speaker 2: even to cross between ports of entry. It's the discretion
Speaker 2: of the administration or the prosecutors to charge for that crossing.
Speaker 2: But that is a legal means to claim asylum. And
Speaker 2: so we'll let it must pick up again here as
Speaker 2: he takes his first step into United States.
Speaker 1: The first thing I say is, I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 1: there's some Fox News stuff, because there were there were
Speaker 1: so aggressive camera and a brand new jeep, and they
Speaker 1: were like, hey, cool, Google shoot shoot, and then the
Speaker 1: you know, ladies and dudes and everybody was running and
Speaker 1: they were running after them to shoot them with the
Speaker 1: I mean with the camera. I mean, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: what I mean. And you can tell there is malicious
Speaker 1: intent behind what they're doing. It was not like trying
Speaker 1: to be sort of neutral or anything. They were just
Speaker 1: you know, anyhow. So I'm looking for a border patrol.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say, hey, I'm finding for asylum. Where
Speaker 1: are you? What's going on? Nothing, there's nobody. So I'm
Speaker 1: just walking around with the with the around the world.
Speaker 1: I called my wife, I called some friends. Thank god
Speaker 1: it's to that signal. And then uh, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, the first border patrolman that I saw, he
Speaker 1: was pissed off. He said, a few, a few, a
Speaker 1: few this, uh, move out of my way. Fine cool. Uh.
Speaker 1: I told them whatever I said. If I didn't like,
Speaker 1: I said, I'm sorry. And then I moved on and
Speaker 1: nobody's interested in even to talk. So and then I
Speaker 1: moved closer, closer to the crowd, and uh, I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's when I saw David, but it was
Speaker 1: almost almost almost yeah, And even when I saw David initially,
Speaker 1: but then I kept going to do to have an
Speaker 1: idea of the whole camp camp and the whole like
Speaker 1: understand what the dynamics. I saw some National guardsmen, I
Speaker 1: saw some DHS police, and I saw some Border patrolmen.
Speaker 1: It's like a whole mix of people. And I think
Speaker 1: I think there was UH Park Rangers. If I'm not,
Speaker 1: I'm not a second yeah yeah so being LAMB rangers. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so it's a lot of huge mix of people.
Speaker 1: And right away my my survivor instincts kind of you know,
Speaker 1: I I saw David and I saw tools, and my
Speaker 1: eyes opened up because you know, I I built my
Speaker 1: farm from scratch in North Africa and I have my
Speaker 1: tools are everything to me. So anyhow, so I'm glad
Speaker 1: I did see that that that familiar site and I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. But you, but you, David and Caesar, you
Speaker 1: guys were terrific. And yeah, I mean nobody spoke English.
Speaker 1: Nobody spoke English, nobody and everybody's being treated like I mean,
Speaker 1: I told one Border performent, I have house, I have sheep.
Speaker 1: I treat them better the way you treat these guys.
Speaker 1: I really do, I truly do and they were didn't
Speaker 1: like that kind of talk. But anyhow, so yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it got really cold, I mean fairy quickly and
Speaker 1: right away David and Caissar, thank god, had had some
Speaker 1: tools and we started, you know, working on getting some
Speaker 1: tents up and running, and I mean they did most
Speaker 1: of the work really. I I was just there helping.
Speaker 1: So uh and it was it was, it was, dude.
Speaker 1: My heart was really pain giving me a lot of
Speaker 1: pain because in my mind I had my boy and
Speaker 1: my girl on my mind and I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: get to them. But I've seen these kids. Man. That
Speaker 1: was that was horrific.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: That was not right. That was not right in that cold,
Speaker 1: it was just not right. And uh, I'm telling you
Speaker 1: still in my mind right now. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna let you it's it's just it's embedded, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it affects all of us. Like I would say,
Speaker 2: last night, I was a little baby there and I
Speaker 2: couldn't sleep coming.
Speaker 1: Home, you know, I tell me, you know, jeez, dude,
Speaker 1: like you know, the thing is this, you know? Okay, Again,
Speaker 1: I told David, uh, it's not a question of left
Speaker 1: or right. The question is so I get it. I
Speaker 1: spoke to Bush of Border Patrol, and again I couldn't
Speaker 1: sleep at night. I basically kept on going. After David
Speaker 1: and Caesar left, I tried to sleep, I couldn't sleep.
Speaker 1: I called my kids. They sleep at eight forty eight thirty,
Speaker 1: so I spoke to them, and then they were asleep.
Speaker 1: And then I got up and I kept walking around.
Speaker 1: Some people had a lot of woods, some people didn't
Speaker 1: have enough wood, so and some people didn't want me
Speaker 1: to take some of their wood. I had to go
Speaker 1: pick up some wood and try to look, you know,
Speaker 1: make sure everybody's fire is up and running. And and
Speaker 1: then you know, when everybody had the fire and everybody
Speaker 1: kind of somewhat settled in, I figured, hey, let me
Speaker 1: talk if I'm up, let me talk to the Border patrol.
Speaker 1: I spoke to the first one. He was kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, didn't want to talk, but still said a
Speaker 1: few things. But then another one originally from San Diego.
Speaker 1: Cool guy, really cool guy. He gave me the picture.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, listen, I mean, you know, we're here
Speaker 1: to work and it's stressful. It's a lot. We're trying
Speaker 1: to do the best we can. It's not our fort
Speaker 1: and it's not you know what I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, And he told me, listen, you can go
Speaker 1: back to Tijuana, or you can go in the United
Speaker 1: States or do whatever you want. But if I pick
Speaker 1: you up outside of this area, you go straight to
Speaker 1: the portation. That's the bottom line. But if you stay here,
Speaker 1: you get to be picked up and processed and you'll
Speaker 1: have a chance to fight for your asylum. So again,
Speaker 1: excellent information, with the exception of even they don't know
Speaker 1: the process, because you don't get to fight for asylum
Speaker 1: in detention. In detention, they release you on your recongnissance
Speaker 1: and then later on you fight for asylum.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So and that's a misconception because everybody is saying everybody
Speaker 1: that I spoke to initially said yeah, you can fight
Speaker 1: for the asylum right in here, but it's not true.
Speaker 1: So but anyhow, so and then I spoke to a
Speaker 1: couple of National guardsmen, a couple of kids that the
Speaker 1: early twenties from New York, from New York, and uh,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, just just a couple of kids.
Speaker 1: We started talking about hunting, We started talking about you know,
Speaker 1: fishing and stuff like that, and they were you know
Speaker 1: what do you expect you know, they're doing their job
Speaker 1: and their human beings doing what humans beings do. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I can absolutely sympathize and understand, you know,
Speaker 1: these guys' jobs. My only beef is that do you
Speaker 1: have to be the I mean, yes, you're pissed. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of work. Yes, it's frustrating. Yes it
Speaker 1: feels like your country is invaded. Blah blah blah. We
Speaker 1: get all that, But is you being mean, rude or
Speaker 1: downright evil? Is that going to change anything? It's not.
Speaker 1: These guys went through flicking the Amazon. I mean, at
Speaker 1: some point I swum with a crocodile. I didn't even
Speaker 1: know the crocodiles around. I'm just saying, it's so weird
Speaker 1: that they're educated and they're informed, yet they still have
Speaker 1: that attitude. It's just like you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't.
Speaker 2: Yah, yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't help. And like, look,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you think about policy, Like if
Speaker 2: there's a baby crying because it has no.
Speaker 1: They get cold. They became cold hearted, and it sucks
Speaker 1: because again, I spoke to this guy from San Diego,
Speaker 1: which I really appreciate. He's you know sort of you know,
Speaker 1: he's he was very forward with me, and I appreciate
Speaker 1: that because it probably doesn't get to talk to anybody
Speaker 1: because nobody speaks English. So and then the idea is,
Speaker 1: you know, they're frustrated, they're with the system, they're frustrated
Speaker 1: with the with the capacity, with with the with with
Speaker 1: the position they're put in. Okay, I absolutely sympathize. You
Speaker 1: cannot go wrong with that. I mean, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: you have every right to to to to to be
Speaker 1: that way. Again, my beef is, why do you like
Speaker 1: good morning? A few good afternoon, a few good night,
Speaker 1: a few like like what? It becomes so sad. It's
Speaker 1: just like, you know, loses it's importance. Even the F
Speaker 1: word is no longer important, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just too much, so much.
Speaker 2: It's very dehumanizing, and it gets absolutely absolutely and I
Speaker 2: mean eventually I got this inspired by David and Caesar,
Speaker 2: and I think they did a freaking amazing job.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just it was a shock in my
Speaker 1: system to see the contrast between I think it's the
Speaker 1: biggest necessary contrast in that specific place. You need to
Speaker 1: see the two sides of the American spirit. Right there.
Speaker 1: You have volunteers saying a few to the system, and
Speaker 1: you have borders men saying a few to the system,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you know, it's just
Speaker 1: a huge contrast, and that's what really gives hope for
Speaker 1: anything going forward. So I appreciated. I don't think David
Speaker 1: and Caesar really understand how important what they're doing. It's
Speaker 1: extremely important, it's very valuable. So to me personally, it's
Speaker 1: just the shark and all the initial shock, it just
Speaker 1: went away really quickly because I saw tools that I
Speaker 1: saw David, and I knew what's going on because I
Speaker 1: volunteered in shelters in LA in Los Angeles, I volunteered
Speaker 1: at the mission down at UH, you know, downtown l A.
Speaker 1: You know on schedule if you hear of skid Row,
Speaker 1: I've volunteered there. And I mean, i know very well
Speaker 1: what homelessness looks like. So I've done Christmas service, I've
Speaker 1: done food food service. Automatically, when I saw David, I
Speaker 1: just completely kicked in and I it was a natural
Speaker 1: thing for me to jump aboard and help UH. And
Speaker 1: then again I couldn't sleep early in the morning, like
Speaker 1: four or five, I started seeing some border patrolment coming in,
Speaker 1: and right away the huffing and puffin starts. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, the traveling and all the business. Okay,
Speaker 1: and uh initially I mean I again, I hate to
Speaker 1: use the word I, but I helped organize the crowd
Speaker 1: a little bit because they were fighting because they were
Speaker 1: the PP was BP was picking up, uh, people that
Speaker 1: have been there that they're just arrived, they're leaving the
Speaker 1: people that were there longer, you know, for the the
Speaker 1: ones that were that I stayed with, were there for
Speaker 1: four days. They didn't get picked up, and so that
Speaker 1: a logistical issue and people were just not being organized.
Speaker 1: So we did the line demarcation line. Those who were
Speaker 1: here for three days, they need to be here two days.
Speaker 1: One day. We did that, and then the first border
Speaker 1: patrolment that showed up on a g sorry yelling at me,
Speaker 1: you're doing our job. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. I backed up.
Speaker 1: I backed up. I minded my business. And then another
Speaker 1: border patrolment tells me, hey, listen, listen, listen, I needed
Speaker 1: to do forty seven on the side. Futty seven on
Speaker 1: the side. I need you. Yeah, I'm like, what's going
Speaker 1: on here? Okay? I mean again, I dropped my ego.
Speaker 1: I don't care as long as these guys get a
Speaker 1: chance to get through, because there was a lot of
Speaker 1: frustration where they're picking up people random and they're picking
Speaker 1: up leaving people that are being there for a long time.
Speaker 1: You had families that did not want to be separated,
Speaker 1: you had families that have been there longer, and you
Speaker 1: had you know, so it's just a huge miss missmash
Speaker 1: of situations and you know so, uh yeah, I mean, eventually,
Speaker 1: on on on on the next day, early in the morning,
Speaker 1: we did some organizing and it seemed to me that
Speaker 1: we were much more fluid and and and the border
Speaker 1: patrolman filled up the bus and it happened to be
Speaker 1: one of them, one of the people that were picked up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: anyhow so.
Speaker 2: But what a story, what a journey.
Speaker 1: Right, it's insane. I'm still processing, man.
Speaker 2: Of course. I mean, that's a traumatic experience.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Just that guess one story. And like you said, there
Speaker 2: are thousands.
Speaker 1: Of them, thousands, thousands.
Speaker 2: All right, that's what We're going to cut it off
Speaker 2: today and we will pick up again tomorrow to hear
Speaker 2: more about any of his journey, how he found himself
Speaker 2: in the United States, where he's going and where he
Speaker 2: is now. Thank you so much. It could What Happened
Speaker 2: Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
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Speaker 3: find sources for It could Happen here, updated monthly at
Speaker 3: coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.