1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: CAUs Media. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 2: Hi everyone, it's James and today I've got a two 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 2: part episode for you. Initially, I'd planned to have my 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 2: friend Emmett and Dave talk to me about the shelters 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: that we've all been building in Acumba because the weather's 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: getting worse and worse. But we were able to connect 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: with Amos, who is one of the migrants who has 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: spent time in outdoor detention sadly and then in indoor 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: detentions you'll hear, and I really wanted to sort of 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 2: refocus this episode on sharing Amos's story because I think, 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 2: as I've said countless times right that if we don't 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 2: spend a migrants in our reporting about migration, then we're 13 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: doing it wrong. And so you will hear introductions from Dave, 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: and you will hear introductions from Emmett, and you'll heard 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 2: a little bit from them next episode about how we're 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: building the yes but we'll bring you that episode another 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: time because I wanted this episode to be mostly about 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: Amos's migration journey. Hello everybody, it's me James. I am 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 2: hosting It could Happen here today again, and I'm joined 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: by my friends Amos and Emmett and potentially later our 21 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 2: friend David. We're going to talk today again about the 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: situation in Hitecomba. Amos is one of the people who 23 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: we've detained in the outdoor detention sites, and it's going 24 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 2: to explain some of his experience. And then Emmittt is 25 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: someone who has been working with a group of people, 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: including myself, to build shelters for migrants, to build slightly 27 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: more permanent, slightly more improved shelters. Unfortunately, Bottom Control has 28 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: taken upon themselves to instruct migrants to destroy those shelters. 29 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: And so we're going to talk about how we built them, 30 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: what we learn when we're building them, and unfortunately the 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: fact that they have been destroyed. So I'm going to 32 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: ask our three guests to introduce themselves. David is here now, 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: so we'll start with you Amos, and then Emmett and 34 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: then David. Just tell us who you are and anything 35 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: you think is right limit about yourself. 36 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: So I guess thank you for the invite. I appreciate 37 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: the opportunity to to add whatever I can to this 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: very very important subject. I happen to be. I call 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: myself an accidental and legal immigrant, if you want to 40 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: put it that way for due to some family circumstances, 41 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: I found myself following the new migratory road, I mean 42 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: road that has taken me through. I lost count ten 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: or twelve countries starting from North Africa all the way 44 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: to the border with the United States. So that's me 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: and uh what you know? I mean, I would I 46 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: would love nothing more but to add to this conversation. 47 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: Thank you him. My name is Emmitt. I am a 48 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: volunteer with Berlin's Release Collective. 49 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: And then David, would you like to finish up introducing yourself. 50 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 3: Hi, my name's David. I'm a volunteer with Borderlands Relief 51 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 3: Collective as well as Attention Resistance, I do water drops 52 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 3: and I've also been helping out as a volunteer in 53 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 3: the Border Patrol open air detention sites, doing work as 54 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 3: a medic and helping out building these shelters. 55 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: Great. 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much everyone. So, I 57 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: think everyone will be interested in hearing Amos's story. So 58 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: as far as you're comfortable sharing, Amos, and there's no 59 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 2: need to share anything that you're not comfortable with or 60 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: don't want to share, can you tell us about your 61 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: journey from North Africa to the United States, and I 62 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: think we've been particularly interested in how people are finding 63 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: out about these obviously these big gaps in the wall 64 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: that are in Cucumber, and how people are ending up 65 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: there from all over the world. 66 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: Now right, well, buckle up a long journey, James, It's 67 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: a long one. So for me personally, it started with 68 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: a sort of an accidental separation from my family. My 69 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: wife and kids for reasons importunate reasons, had to go 70 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: to go back to the United States, and I was not. 71 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: I was denied a visa to join them. They went 72 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: for initially for to mourn the law the loss of 73 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: a brother in law, I mean a brother in law, 74 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: and unfortunately I wasn't able to get there by obtaining 75 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: a visa to do so. So I spent six seven 76 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: months arguing with the embassy. Was not given any legal 77 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: reasoning for wide my visa was denied. I've lived in 78 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: the United States for the sixteen years. I've had a 79 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: Clington record with one arrest and release and it was 80 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: part of a protest that really that happened in Los 81 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: Angeles and were released right away, and basically I left 82 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. I'd got to think the clean hands 83 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: and no issues and then going back to Tunisia where 84 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: I was with my new family anyhow. So basically I 85 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: was denied visa I really wanted to do. I've never 86 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: done anything illegal in my life. I wanted to do 87 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: the legal route, following what's been always told that, you know, 88 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: follow their legal route, don't come illegally. So that was 89 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: not even a question in my mind. You know, you know, 90 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: the wife is American, the kids are American. I mean, 91 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: I just it shouldn't be an issue. But I really 92 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: was confronted with I mean, I can safely say bye 93 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: by now it's a bias. It's got to be some 94 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: racism just by by by deduction really, because when you 95 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: run out of reasoning, you have to really start making 96 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: these sad and you know said conclusions. So yeah, so 97 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: basically no again, that was that took me on a 98 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: long and painful depression and anxiety and a cocktail of 99 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: mental health issues that I'm still actually dealing with right now. 100 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: And it took my kids, my two kids, my beautiful kids, 101 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: through therapy and they're still going through therapy. My wife 102 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: is going through therapy. I'm going through therapy, and it 103 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: took it blew apart in this family. We're still trying 104 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: to figure out why so much you know nothing but 105 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: to define it. But hey, really there is no other 106 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: way of putting it. So and again I just the 107 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: discussion was with my friends in America has been very 108 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: difficult because they have no understanding or concept of what 109 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: you know, the diplomat whore is doing and what is 110 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: the these embassies are doing because there is no there 111 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: is no access to them by Americans. It's just usually 112 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: foreigners who do and that really creates like this black 113 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: hole of tax money going to these embassies. And then 114 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: what they're doing is just just with a stroke of 115 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: a pen, yes, yes or no, no explanation. You can't sue, 116 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: you can't appeal, you can't do. It's absolute power. And 117 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: then you know, I'm I'm mentioning this that the embassy 118 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: is because through my journey, through this long and painful journey, 119 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: I've met time and time again other fellow immigrants who 120 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: again tried to go through the LEAGUEA route were denied 121 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: with no reason, with no like, no written reason, no 122 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: no valid reason. So again you know, this this discussion 123 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: on on on and off again, and you know, among 124 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: consitizens as to why people are showing up in the border, well, 125 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: I mean, at least in part, what I see is 126 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: no accountability whatsoever to the embassies. Like time and time again, 127 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: you have these embassies denying people who are trying to 128 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: do it the right way, trying to do it. They 129 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: either have family or work or whatever, and they're denied 130 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: time and time again. And then you have, you know, 131 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: in the hundreds of thousands going through that process, and 132 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: of course they try, they try, and then eventually they 133 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: have no choice. So I'm not saying this is the 134 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: only explanation, but it's a big part of it. I've 135 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: spoken for people who are crossing and who are on 136 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: the way from anywhere from Brazil to Colombia to Ecuador, 137 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: to Panama, to Nicaragua, to Guatemala, to Belize, in Mexico 138 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: all across. I've come across so many people and they, 139 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, at least I mean, my little humble mass 140 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: I would say fifty to sixty percent have tried to embassies, 141 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: but unfortunately, you know that, you know that they just 142 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: turned down. So, uh, this is an issue that is 143 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: not talked about. This is an issue they really get 144 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: away with. Scott Free, I mean, they really don't. There's 145 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: zero cond of I mean there are gods. I mean, 146 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: the ambassador have zero accountability now, I mean he he 147 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: is absolutely he has all the power and no cannability. 148 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: I mean, rarely you see ambassador being recalled by Congress. 149 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: Rarely you see an ambassador being questioned, Hey, why are 150 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: these these are demands being the the client, why what 151 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: are you doing about it? All that stuff? And you know, so, 152 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: so this is this is some of the stuff I 153 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: want to add to the conversation because nobody has ever 154 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: mentioned this. Nobody talks about this. 155 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, yeah, it's very important. I think your experiences 156 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: is far from unique, as you've said, right, I have 157 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: seen hundreds of people carrying visa rejection letters come across 158 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: the sad and border. They've in them to me, right, 159 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 2: they are people who have been victims of some of 160 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 2: the worst things that can happen to human beings, and 161 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 2: they've survived them, and we've still refused to give these 162 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 2: people a safe place, so they've had to take their 163 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 2: journey in a more dangerous way. 164 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: I mean I didn't see a single round person at 165 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: the embassy. It's all right again, I'm I hope you 166 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: guys don't feel like I've been like too. I'm just 167 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: being honest because I see it, and I'm I'm up 168 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: to date of what people are talking about and all 169 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: the discussions, and I see it, like you know, I 170 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: almost have a level of a of a right wing 171 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: supremacy style, like you know, I mean, just you feel it. 172 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: You feel it. It's there. You have to be a 173 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: quote unquote round person or a minority person to feel it. 174 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: I don't expect others to understand it, but we we 175 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: feel it. And this is a discussion I've had in 176 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: detention with a lot of the fellow detainees. There is 177 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: that sense, there's a sense that, you know, we're being 178 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: looked down at, not on our merits, but on you know, 179 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of you know, assumptions because of where 180 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: you're from. Assumptions like you go in and it's already baked. 181 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: It's already baked. It's already And this is me. I've 182 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: had a visa from the US for sixteen years. I mean, 183 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: it should be a slam dunk, you know. So my 184 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: two kids are American, my wife, my wife is American. 185 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: We are and til today are so confused as to 186 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: why the denials happened. I mean, I've called Congress members 187 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: that David was with me today when I was at 188 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 1: the Congress Membership Shift Adam Shift in Bourbon, California, and 189 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: we you know, even they don't have an answer as 190 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: to why the denial happened. And you know, I mean 191 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: to close my personal issue, James. It's interesting because I 192 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: was told that perhaps you were illegally in the United 193 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: States between twenty thirteen twenty fifteen and then, but they 194 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: can't say for sure that was the reason. But in 195 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: detention when they when they did all the research on me, 196 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: none of that existed, none of that, There is none 197 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: of that. They released me because they have nothing against me. Nothing. 198 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: And this is and this is the USCIES. This is 199 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: the Immigration Service, not the embassy coming up with some 200 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: of these you know, bogus ideas. You know, so again 201 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: it's a mess, and I feel like, you know this, 202 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: this these embassies need to be looking into more because 203 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: the border patrol ends up feeling the blunt of all this. 204 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: But where does it start? Where is the source? It's 205 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: always the question of where is the source. Where the 206 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: source is, Yes, there's economic issues, there is there is 207 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: there is physical abuse. There's all kinds of stuff. But 208 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: then also there's tax dollars being spent in the billions 209 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: and the billions and hundreds of billions of these diplomatic course. 210 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: I mean to be fair, my journey was not was 211 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: not as difficult as many many, many, many many stories 212 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: that I've heard heart women, I mean really heartbreaking stories. 213 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: My journey really, you know, I'm I'm somewhat to have 214 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: a somewhat of a sophisticated life in the sense that 215 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: you know, I spent a lot of time again, we wasted. 216 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: Most of the time that we wasted was waiting on 217 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: the embassy because they kept on dragon and dragging their feet, 218 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: six seven months waiting while my kids are crying on 219 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: the phone, and you know, we don't have the income 220 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: to to be to able to have them come back 221 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: to to to Tunisia where I was. So anyhow, so yeah, 222 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: I started by researching, researching, reading a lot of articles, 223 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: researching as far as North Africa. The route that is 224 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: being used right now by mostly by a lot of 225 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: Mauritanians and West Africans. It goes through Turkey, uh and 226 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: then from Turkey they're going to Nicaragua because Nicaragua. Managua, 227 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: the capital of Nicaragua, they have allowed for visa and arrival, 228 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: and then from and then from Managua there is literally 229 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: almost like travel companies doing packaging packages for upwards to 230 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: six seven thousand dollars from there to and then six 231 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars from Nicarago. But before Nicaragua there's at 232 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: least three four thousand dollars, so I'm told by I think, yeah, 233 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: the four Mauritanians that were detained, I'm told about ten 234 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which comes down to their local currency, about 235 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: forty five thousand of their local currency, which is a lot, 236 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: I mean a lot. So they so, like I said, 237 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: so they managed to get the flights to Nicaragua. Managua 238 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,359 Speaker 1: has vis on an arrival for thirty days for North Africans, 239 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: and then from there you've got literally their journey through 240 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, coyotes whatever you want to call them, 241 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: facilitators whatever, well established with buses through El Salvador, through 242 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: what Honduras, Honduras and Salvador, Guatemala, and then through Mexico. 243 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: So that's the route that's been you know, upwards of 244 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: six seven thousand more Tennians and West Africans as far 245 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: as the last articles that I've read have taken that route, 246 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: so I looked into it. I couldn't afford it, to 247 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: be honest with you, this is just you know, I 248 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: was sending money to my kids and wife because she 249 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: had to be on welfare. She just arrived there and 250 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: she had to kill the kids at school and there's 251 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: a lot of struggle, so I had to kind of 252 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: try to help with that. On the same time, I 253 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: was waiting on the embassy and we you know, and 254 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: the wife was calling them to see if how can 255 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: we expedite, can we do this, can we do this? 256 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: But they were literally rude and you know, treated her 257 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: like a second class citizen. I don't know why. We 258 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: still can't figure that out. 259 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 3: Uh. 260 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: Anyhow, So another route right now, which is a difficult route, 261 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: is through Brazil because Brazil has a I don't know 262 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: if you guys know, and I think they do that 263 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: for Americans too. Yeah, so Brazil has sort of I 264 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: don't know the word, but the equivalence to them is 265 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: if you impose the visa on Brazil, Brazilians will impulsive 266 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: vision news. They do that to Americans too. So so 267 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: you know where I'm from. They don't have a visa 268 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: to uh as far as for Brazilians, so we don't. 269 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: So a lot of Africans can go to Brazil and 270 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: from Brazil take the route all the way. So David 271 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: mentioned the Amazon Strait where they crossed the jungle from 272 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: Colombia to Panama and so on and so forth. That 273 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: is I mean, I'm yes, the Darian the famous Darian Act. 274 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: That is to me personal. Man, it gives me chills 275 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: because the two or three guys that one of them 276 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: did it on his own with Google Maps. Man, I 277 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: don't know how the hell he did it. I have 278 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: no clue how he did it. I am. I was 279 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: listening and trying to understand them. Oh it was just 280 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: heart heartbreaking, you know, the suffering. So but yeah, I 281 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: through Brazil and then Colombia and then and keep on 282 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: going that way. That's another route for me. Uh. Again, 283 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: I booked flights. Uh, I didn't go through that trouble 284 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: to be fair, but I've had some issues with vy 285 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: is because North Africas don't get a lot of visa 286 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: access around the Latin America. We don't have a lot 287 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: of embassies there we don't have a lot of trade. 288 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of commerce between our countries, 289 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: so it's kind of an unknown UH an unknown commodity 290 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: in the sense that you know everything is is, you 291 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: know is new UH. For me, I was able to 292 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: get a visa to Colombia, and I'm very grateful to 293 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: choose Colombia because it's a it's affordable. It's been a 294 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: good experience for myself to get out of UH, me 295 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: get closer and on the same time figure out the 296 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: lay of the land and understand where I'm going. So 297 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: those I'm grateful for that. And from there, my goal 298 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: was to get a visa to Mexico and a lot 299 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: of and most of my American friends are still confused. 300 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: That's why I would need a Mexican visa. That's a 301 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: whole other discussion. And then the Mexican visa has become 302 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: extremely difficult, almost as difficult as the American visa because 303 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: of pressure from the United States to stop the flow. 304 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: So again we end up making it very difficult for 305 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: people who want to legitimately do this. So finding an 306 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: appointment for a Mexican embassy, then you find out which 307 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: embassy of Mexico has appointments available. Some of them don't 308 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: have ever, some of them have them two years from now. 309 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: Some of them have them, you know, for a particular visa, 310 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: but not the other. And you know, so for me, 311 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: it was Colombia, and then I found an appointment in 312 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: for Mexican visa and Belize, but unfortunately I ended up 313 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: in you know, going from Colombia to Panama to Nicaragua 314 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: to Guatemala and then Belieze because Belize has not a 315 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: lot of flights from Latin America. And then when I 316 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: got to Guatemala, all the previous countries allowed me to 317 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: transit without a problem, but Guatemala decided to put me 318 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: in a detention for almost forty hours and then wanted 319 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: to return me back to to original country because they yeah, 320 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: so I'm like, I'm, I'm I'm My plane departs a 321 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: few hours of going to Belize. Why are you doing this? Please? 322 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm not only the visit so to Guatemala. I'm not 323 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: going to Guatemala, nothing, no discussion. They threw me in there, cockroaches, 324 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: you name it. The whole Enchilada. I mean, no food, 325 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: no water, no nothing. I mean, you know, it's just sad, 326 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: very sad, very sad, very sad. That was a really 327 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: verd And then so I was sent back to Panama, 328 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: then from Panama to Colombia, and then Colombia that was 329 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: going to send me back to North Africa. So it 330 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: was going to be a really mess. So I had 331 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: to use some of my customer service skills that have 332 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: run through the years to wiggle myself where I last 333 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: minute was able to help some friends buy a ticket 334 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: to like you know, in the midnight hour. Really they 335 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: were going to send me. So I bought a ticket 336 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: to Ecuador, where I had a visa for ninety days. 337 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: So I was able to get out of that mess, 338 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: stay in Couador for a couple of weeks and then 339 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: try to get to Belize again. And the next time 340 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: I was successful in going to Belize through Panama and 341 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: then uh Nicaraguo, then straight to Belieze, avoiding Guatemala and 342 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: then Believe. I was there for a couple of weeks, 343 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: and then I was able to get a visa to Mexico, 344 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: thank God. And uh, there was a lot of Russians, 345 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: there was a lot of Turks, There was a lot 346 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: of no no, no Turks, Russians and a lot of 347 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: East Europeans trying to get a visa there too for 348 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: Mexico and basically yea. From there, it was the journey 349 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: of taking a bus from Belize to Cancun, can Coun 350 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: to Monterey, Monterrey to Cabo. I found a job, a 351 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: volunteering job in Porto es Condido. I'm a yoga practitioner, 352 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: and I found a yoga retreat there to try to 353 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: help me with my mental health and all that stuff. So, 354 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: uh yeah, So they're doing a great job. It's in 355 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: the middle of the wilderness. They're really present, you know, 356 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: working on natural preservation and in beautiful job they're doing there. 357 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: And then from there Goble's Lucas Lucas. I volunteered at 358 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: a hotel to kind of be able to eat and sleep, 359 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: and then from there Tijuana and Tijuana. I met someone 360 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: earlier in can Con, a Colombian who was all the 361 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: time I was in Mexico, I was trying to do 362 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: the app, the c if you we want app. 363 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and how was your experience with that? 364 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: Because absolutely absolutely horrible, absolutely horrible, absolutely horrible. I mean 365 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: it's just basically useless. It's useless and I met people 366 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: who have been there for two months on the app 367 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: and it didn't work. 368 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 2: Explain to me what didn't work about it? Like, did 369 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 2: it lok you out? 370 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: Did it? I wish I can send you screen. I 371 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: have screenshots that can send you to you can understand 372 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: what so. So it tells you, it tells you, it 373 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: tells you you're you're So, you sign up, you put 374 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: your information, you passport and all that stuff, and then 375 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: basically what you're doing is you're you're in the queue 376 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: and it's there's like a lot system where they didn't 377 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: see how long you've been waiting, how old are you, 378 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: where are you from. There's like a lottery system that 379 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: randomly selects people. So but again, you know, out of 380 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: a close to one hundred people in my detention cell, 381 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: you know room, everybody's saying we all tried, and none 382 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: of them, you know, got an appointment. I mean everybody 383 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: wants an appointment. I mean, who's in the rights, who's 384 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: in the right in his right mind would choose to 385 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: forego an appointment and go do throughout that trouble. So, 386 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: and if we could do a little bit of a math. Eventually, 387 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: at some point I spoke to the supervisor of the 388 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: Border Patrol detention center and he told me there eighteen 389 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: hundred people at any given point in that place. So 390 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: out of eighteen hundred people, and if my cell there 391 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: was about six cells or something or more than that 392 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: much more, much more the six cells and then four blocks, 393 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: I think, sonyah, So uh yeah, I mean if about 394 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: out of one hundred, then you have nobody was able 395 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: to use the app then what's what's what's the tell? 396 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: Tell out of the eighteen hundred, maybe nine percent, I 397 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: mean all of them really, because if they did have appointment. Yeah, 398 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: if they had appointments, there would have been not in there, right, 399 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: I mean that's the key. 400 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. 401 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: So, I mean it's just a flawed system. I was 402 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: telling my wife yesterday, that's like a lipstick on a pig, 403 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: because you know, you're just trying to make it look 404 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: because you're doing something, but it's really it's really like 405 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: there's nothing being done about it and anyhow, So I'm 406 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: still dazed and confused. I mean, I'm, you know, trying 407 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: to understand the situation. So I literally I was the 408 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: last one to get in and literally I'm sitting there 409 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: and I'm standing there at the border itself, at the 410 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: the wall, and I'm like, what's going on? Where is 411 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: the border patrol? Where is the port of entry? Where 412 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: is this? I'm not confused. 413 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: After finding himself unable to make an appointment through CBP one, 414 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 2: I must have decided to make his way to Accumber 415 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 2: like thousands of other migrants. And I think it's worth 416 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 2: pointing out here that nothing that he has done up 417 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: to this point is breaking any laws. Right, It's not 418 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 2: illegal to drive around in Mexico. It's not illegal to 419 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 2: approach the border from the south. All of this stuff 420 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 2: is the legal way to move around. No, no crimes 421 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 2: have been committed. And it is of course legal to 422 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: cross the border and present yourself asylum immediately upon doing so, 423 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 2: even to cross between ports of entry. It's the discretion 424 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 2: of the administration or the prosecutors to charge for that crossing. 425 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 2: But that is a legal means to claim asylum. And 426 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 2: so we'll let it must pick up again here as 427 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: he takes his first step into United States. 428 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: The first thing I say is, I'm pretty sure that 429 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: there's some Fox News stuff, because there were there were 430 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: so aggressive camera and a brand new jeep, and they 431 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: were like, hey, cool, Google shoot shoot, and then the 432 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, ladies and dudes and everybody was running and 433 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: they were running after them to shoot them with the 434 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: I mean with the camera. I mean, I mean, that's 435 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: what I mean. And you can tell there is malicious 436 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: intent behind what they're doing. It was not like trying 437 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: to be sort of neutral or anything. They were just 438 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, anyhow. So I'm looking for a border patrol. 439 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: I'm trying to say, hey, I'm finding for asylum. Where 440 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: are you? What's going on? Nothing, there's nobody. So I'm 441 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: just walking around with the with the around the world. 442 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: I called my wife, I called some friends. Thank god 443 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: it's to that signal. And then uh, yeah, I mean, 444 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: you know, the first border patrolman that I saw, he 445 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: was pissed off. He said, a few, a few, a 446 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: few this, uh, move out of my way. Fine cool. Uh. 447 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: I told them whatever I said. If I didn't like, 448 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: I said, I'm sorry. And then I moved on and 449 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: nobody's interested in even to talk. So and then I 450 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: moved closer, closer to the crowd, and uh, I don't 451 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: know if that's when I saw David, but it was 452 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: almost almost almost yeah, And even when I saw David initially, 453 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: but then I kept going to do to have an 454 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: idea of the whole camp camp and the whole like 455 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: understand what the dynamics. I saw some National guardsmen, I 456 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: saw some DHS police, and I saw some Border patrolmen. 457 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: It's like a whole mix of people. And I think 458 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: I think there was UH Park Rangers. If I'm not, 459 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: I'm not a second yeah yeah so being LAMB rangers. Yeah. 460 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: So so it's a lot of huge mix of people. 461 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 1: And right away my my survivor instincts kind of you know, 462 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: I I saw David and I saw tools, and my 463 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: eyes opened up because you know, I I built my 464 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: farm from scratch in North Africa and I have my 465 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: tools are everything to me. So anyhow, so I'm glad 466 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: I did see that that that familiar site and I 467 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: appreciate that. But you, but you, David and Caesar, you 468 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: guys were terrific. And yeah, I mean nobody spoke English. 469 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: Nobody spoke English, nobody and everybody's being treated like I mean, 470 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: I told one Border performent, I have house, I have sheep. 471 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: I treat them better the way you treat these guys. 472 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: I really do, I truly do and they were didn't 473 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: like that kind of talk. But anyhow, so yeah, I 474 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: mean it got really cold, I mean fairy quickly and 475 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: right away David and Caissar, thank god, had had some 476 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: tools and we started, you know, working on getting some 477 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: tents up and running, and I mean they did most 478 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: of the work really. I I was just there helping. 479 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: So uh and it was it was, it was, dude. 480 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: My heart was really pain giving me a lot of 481 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: pain because in my mind I had my boy and 482 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: my girl on my mind and I'm just trying to 483 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: get to them. But I've seen these kids. Man. That 484 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: was that was horrific. 485 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: Man. 486 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: That was not right. That was not right in that cold, 487 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: it was just not right. And uh, I'm telling you 488 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: still in my mind right now. I mean, I'm not 489 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: gonna let you it's it's just it's embedded, you know. 490 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it affects all of us. Like I would say, 491 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 2: last night, I was a little baby there and I 492 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 2: couldn't sleep coming. 493 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: Home, you know, I tell me, you know, jeez, dude, 494 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: like you know, the thing is this, you know? Okay, Again, 495 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: I told David, uh, it's not a question of left 496 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: or right. The question is so I get it. I 497 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: spoke to Bush of Border Patrol, and again I couldn't 498 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: sleep at night. I basically kept on going. After David 499 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: and Caesar left, I tried to sleep, I couldn't sleep. 500 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: I called my kids. They sleep at eight forty eight thirty, 501 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: so I spoke to them, and then they were asleep. 502 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: And then I got up and I kept walking around. 503 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: Some people had a lot of woods, some people didn't 504 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: have enough wood, so and some people didn't want me 505 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: to take some of their wood. I had to go 506 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: pick up some wood and try to look, you know, 507 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: make sure everybody's fire is up and running. And and 508 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: then you know, when everybody had the fire and everybody 509 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: kind of somewhat settled in, I figured, hey, let me 510 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: talk if I'm up, let me talk to the Border patrol. 511 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: I spoke to the first one. He was kind of, 512 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, didn't want to talk, but still said a 513 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: few things. But then another one originally from San Diego. 514 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: Cool guy, really cool guy. He gave me the picture. 515 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: I mean, look, listen, I mean, you know, we're here 516 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: to work and it's stressful. It's a lot. We're trying 517 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: to do the best we can. It's not our fort 518 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: and it's not you know what I mean, you know, 519 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: you know, And he told me, listen, you can go 520 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: back to Tijuana, or you can go in the United 521 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: States or do whatever you want. But if I pick 522 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: you up outside of this area, you go straight to 523 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: the portation. That's the bottom line. But if you stay here, 524 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: you get to be picked up and processed and you'll 525 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: have a chance to fight for your asylum. So again, 526 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: excellent information, with the exception of even they don't know 527 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: the process, because you don't get to fight for asylum 528 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: in detention. In detention, they release you on your recongnissance 529 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: and then later on you fight for asylum. 530 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 531 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: So and that's a misconception because everybody is saying everybody 532 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: that I spoke to initially said yeah, you can fight 533 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: for the asylum right in here, but it's not true. 534 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: So but anyhow, so and then I spoke to a 535 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: couple of National guardsmen, a couple of kids that the 536 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: early twenties from New York, from New York, and uh, 537 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, just just a couple of kids. 538 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,479 Speaker 1: We started talking about hunting, We started talking about you know, 539 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: fishing and stuff like that, and they were you know 540 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: what do you expect you know, they're doing their job 541 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: and their human beings doing what humans beings do. So, 542 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I can absolutely sympathize and understand, you know, 543 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: these guys' jobs. My only beef is that do you 544 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: have to be the I mean, yes, you're pissed. Yes, 545 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: it's a lot of work. Yes, it's frustrating. Yes it 546 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: feels like your country is invaded. Blah blah blah. We 547 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: get all that, But is you being mean, rude or 548 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: downright evil? Is that going to change anything? It's not. 549 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: These guys went through flicking the Amazon. I mean, at 550 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: some point I swum with a crocodile. I didn't even 551 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: know the crocodiles around. I'm just saying, it's so weird 552 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: that they're educated and they're informed, yet they still have 553 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: that attitude. It's just like you know what I mean, 554 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't. 555 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: Yah, yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't help. And like, look, 556 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you think about policy, Like if 557 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 2: there's a baby crying because it has no. 558 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: They get cold. They became cold hearted, and it sucks 559 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: because again, I spoke to this guy from San Diego, 560 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: which I really appreciate. He's you know sort of you know, 561 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: he's he was very forward with me, and I appreciate 562 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: that because it probably doesn't get to talk to anybody 563 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: because nobody speaks English. So and then the idea is, 564 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, they're frustrated, they're with the system, they're frustrated 565 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: with the with the capacity, with with the with with 566 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: the position they're put in. Okay, I absolutely sympathize. You 567 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: cannot go wrong with that. I mean, I mean, it's 568 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: you have every right to to to to to be 569 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: that way. Again, my beef is, why do you like 570 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 1: good morning? A few good afternoon, a few good night, 571 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: a few like like what? It becomes so sad. It's 572 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: just like, you know, loses it's importance. Even the F 573 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: word is no longer important, you know what I mean. 574 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just too much, so much. 575 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: It's very dehumanizing, and it gets absolutely absolutely and I 576 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 2: mean eventually I got this inspired by David and Caesar, 577 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 2: and I think they did a freaking amazing job. 578 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I just it was a shock in my 579 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: system to see the contrast between I think it's the 580 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: biggest necessary contrast in that specific place. You need to 581 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: see the two sides of the American spirit. Right there. 582 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: You have volunteers saying a few to the system, and 583 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: you have borders men saying a few to the system, 584 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you know, it's just 585 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: a huge contrast, and that's what really gives hope for 586 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: anything going forward. So I appreciated. I don't think David 587 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: and Caesar really understand how important what they're doing. It's 588 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: extremely important, it's very valuable. So to me personally, it's 589 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: just the shark and all the initial shock, it just 590 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: went away really quickly because I saw tools that I 591 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: saw David, and I knew what's going on because I 592 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: volunteered in shelters in LA in Los Angeles, I volunteered 593 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: at the mission down at UH, you know, downtown l A. 594 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: You know on schedule if you hear of skid Row, 595 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: I've volunteered there. And I mean, i know very well 596 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: what homelessness looks like. So I've done Christmas service, I've 597 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: done food food service. Automatically, when I saw David, I 598 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: just completely kicked in and I it was a natural 599 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: thing for me to jump aboard and help UH. And 600 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: then again I couldn't sleep early in the morning, like 601 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: four or five, I started seeing some border patrolment coming in, 602 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: and right away the huffing and puffin starts. You know 603 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: what I mean, the traveling and all the business. Okay, 604 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: and uh initially I mean I again, I hate to 605 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: use the word I, but I helped organize the crowd 606 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: a little bit because they were fighting because they were 607 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: the PP was BP was picking up, uh, people that 608 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: have been there that they're just arrived, they're leaving the 609 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 1: people that were there longer, you know, for the the 610 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: ones that were that I stayed with, were there for 611 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: four days. They didn't get picked up, and so that 612 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: a logistical issue and people were just not being organized. 613 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: So we did the line demarcation line. Those who were 614 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: here for three days, they need to be here two days. 615 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: One day. We did that, and then the first border 616 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: patrolment that showed up on a g sorry yelling at me, 617 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: you're doing our job. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. I backed up. 618 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: I backed up. I minded my business. And then another 619 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: border patrolment tells me, hey, listen, listen, listen, I needed 620 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: to do forty seven on the side. Futty seven on 621 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: the side. I need you. Yeah, I'm like, what's going 622 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: on here? Okay? I mean again, I dropped my ego. 623 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: I don't care as long as these guys get a 624 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: chance to get through, because there was a lot of 625 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: frustration where they're picking up people random and they're picking 626 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: up leaving people that are being there for a long time. 627 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: You had families that did not want to be separated, 628 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: you had families that have been there longer, and you 629 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: had you know, so it's just a huge miss missmash 630 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: of situations and you know so, uh yeah, I mean, eventually, 631 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: on on on on the next day, early in the morning, 632 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: we did some organizing and it seemed to me that 633 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: we were much more fluid and and and the border 634 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: patrolman filled up the bus and it happened to be 635 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: one of them, one of the people that were picked up. Yeah, 636 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: anyhow so. 637 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,240 Speaker 2: But what a story, what a journey. 638 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: Right, it's insane. I'm still processing, man. 639 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: Of course. I mean, that's a traumatic experience. 640 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's. 641 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 2: Just that guess one story. And like you said, there 642 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 2: are thousands. 643 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: Of them, thousands, thousands. 644 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 2: All right, that's what We're going to cut it off 645 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 2: today and we will pick up again tomorrow to hear 646 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 2: more about any of his journey, how he found himself 647 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: in the United States, where he's going and where he 648 00:37:53,760 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 2: is now. Thank you so much. It could What Happened 649 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,240 Speaker 2: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 650 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 651 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 3: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 652 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 653 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 3: find sources for It could Happen here, updated monthly at 654 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 3: coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.