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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene Jay Leye.

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Speaker 1: We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,

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Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com and of course the let's start the

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Speaker 1: conversation of the morning shall with Greg Battle of BMP

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Speaker 1: Parabad joined us now the US head of Equity and

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Speaker 1: Derivative Strategy. Greg fantastic to catch out with you, sir.

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Speaker 1: The market should it view what is happening in the

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Speaker 1: commodity market as a story a technical story isolated to

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Speaker 1: crude or a broader market story we need to pay

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Speaker 1: attention to. Absolutely has to be both. So for sure,

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Speaker 1: there's some idiosyncratic stuff to do with storage and the

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Speaker 1: fact that's just the front month and it's expiry. But

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Speaker 1: the reality is, and you just touched on this, that

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't be in this situation if demand wasn't zero.

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Speaker 1: We've had this this shutdown across the country that's going

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Speaker 1: to see GDP plunge, unemployment skyrocket, and that's the fundamental

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Speaker 1: reason why we're in this situation in the oil market,

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Speaker 1: and that reads across to to every other risky asset.

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Speaker 1: So there's a question can equities in the United States

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Speaker 1: rally if oil prices continue to go down? And I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about the thousands of jobs that are being lost

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Speaker 1: nine percent of the workforce in the U S. Shail

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Speaker 1: patch so far just in March alone, what do you

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Speaker 1: read in terms of a signal for U S stocks?

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Speaker 1: I don't think having the kind of capitulation that we've

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Speaker 1: seen in oil can be viewed as anything other than

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Speaker 1: on unhealthy for kind of capital markets generally. What we've

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Speaker 1: seen in US equity markets, we had this extremely volatile

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Speaker 1: crash that took the market down, and we've now had

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Speaker 1: a massive rally that I view as a bear market rally.

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Speaker 1: I think history tells us, and we've had a long

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Speaker 1: look across the history of crashes that when you have

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Speaker 1: a steep economic downturn, that is very rare for bear

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Speaker 1: markets to last a month or two. The typical be

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Speaker 1: much longer in duration, much more attractive. Greg part of

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Speaker 1: this is wealth destruction. Just to look at the E

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Speaker 1: T F Fisco and Martin Rats, John Farrell was just

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Speaker 1: phenomenal with Morgan Stanley this morning walking through the tangible

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Speaker 1: E t f dynamics of oil. But Greg, what's so

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Speaker 1: important here to me is people are going to lose money.

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Speaker 1: How does the wealth destruction that we're seeing now fold

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Speaker 1: into equity performance six months or six years down the road. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's absolutely an impact. So we're going to be hit

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Speaker 1: by two things next is one is a wealth effect

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Speaker 1: because of what's happening in capital markets generally, and the

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Speaker 1: other is just quite simply what's happened in unemployment in

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Speaker 1: the US and the strength of the economy. Both of

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Speaker 1: these things are gonna have a negative feedback loop that

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Speaker 1: come back into equity. So yeah, I think we've got

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Speaker 1: a really really challenging favor ahead of us. You know,

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to something that John was

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Speaker 1: talking about earlier, how the price of oil is a

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Speaker 1: very accurate gauge of where we are in an economy

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Speaker 1: that's basically been shuttered period full stop. The question now

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Speaker 1: is duration, right, And I think that that's sort of

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing in the future contract for oil. There

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Speaker 1: is hope that the near future is going to be

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Speaker 1: very different, or at least there will be more demand

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Speaker 1: and a bit of a bit of more balance in

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Speaker 1: the market. Greg do you think that that optimism is misplaced. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think you have to be careful having a lot

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Speaker 1: of optimism that we're going to see a v shaped

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Speaker 1: recovery and everything reopen and go back to normal quickly. Now,

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Speaker 1: clearly we're very much hoping that we do start the

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Speaker 1: path to normalcy and that this this virus starts to

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Speaker 1: dissipate and people can start to read the businesses. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: that's going to increase this incremental demands for things like

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Speaker 1: crude from zero to something somewhat higher. But it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that the state of the economy and the state

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Speaker 1: of markets going back to where they were several months

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Speaker 1: ago in the next couple of months. Typically the path

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Speaker 1: to recovery is much slower and longer than the than

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Speaker 1: the than the crash on the way down. Well, Lisa,

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Speaker 1: I think if you wanted the more constructive way of

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Speaker 1: looking at what's happening on the score today and yesterday,

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Speaker 1: you could say this is the necessary pain we need

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Speaker 1: to go through in the short term to rebalance the

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Speaker 1: all market in the medium to long term. Now medium

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Speaker 1: long term, pick a day any day. I was talking

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Speaker 1: to and read Ascent of Energy Aspects yesterday about this.

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Speaker 1: You're going out deep into into and if you think

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Speaker 1: about the environment that this is going to have, this

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Speaker 1: is generating this move. At the moment, capex not going

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Speaker 1: to be much of that. You're going to really strip

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Speaker 1: out supply capacity. Maybe they'll actually build more storage because

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Speaker 1: of what is happening as well. The dynamic that plays

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Speaker 1: out today sets up a different crude world two years

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Speaker 1: down the road. I agree, John, But to me, the

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Speaker 1: fascinating thing is there was a story that Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 1: is considering perhaps bringing forward the cuts that will go

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Speaker 1: into effect in May two a little bit earlier, given

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Speaker 1: the fact that we're seeing negative matters in this world. Right,

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Speaker 1: absolutely ten days matters, But it shows the tone deafness, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, they're considering possibly doing this at a

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Speaker 1: time when oil prices are falling to the lore. It

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Speaker 1: just raises a question about yes, there may be capacity

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Speaker 1: and and there might be a production that's cut, but

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Speaker 1: is this really a reality check? I mean, why wouldn't

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Speaker 1: they cut it now? No? I think they understand that

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Speaker 1: there's very little they can do in this environment. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about crude demand collapsing by thirty million pounds a

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Speaker 1: day through Q two. What can you do on the

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Speaker 1: supply side that can cut by ten million? Ten million?

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Speaker 1: That car was really really big in a grand scheme

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Speaker 1: of things, but when you think about what's been happening

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Speaker 1: with demand, it's just not big enough. And now we're

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Speaker 1: near enough. Yeah. If you look at the international flights

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Speaker 1: for example, down nine in the past month. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: potentially spilling over into May and June as well. Greg,

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Speaker 1: great to catch up. These are always great to hear

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Speaker 1: from your Greg. Battle there of BMP Paraba this morning,

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Speaker 1: it's global. Brent crude comes in with a vengeance to

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Speaker 1: frame that right now. Brent crude down to twenty one

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Speaker 1: the Chica the June West Texas Intermediate, there's sixteen dollars

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Speaker 1: a barrel and still a negative statistic on a one

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Speaker 1: day remaining West Texas Intermediate. Our interview of the day

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Speaker 1: on oil Martin Rots of Morgan Stanley Martin. I want

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Speaker 1: to cut to the chase and do the derivative ballet

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Speaker 1: right now, because I know John and Lise have got

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Speaker 1: some huge questions on oil and its future. There is

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Speaker 1: a Greek letter called Theta, which is the time decay

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Speaker 1: of future. Given how odd things are. Now, do we

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Speaker 1: see normal THETA for June and July contracts or do

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Speaker 1: they collapse more rapidly because of the larger situation we're in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'd be inclining to say you're I'd be inclined to

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Speaker 1: say the letter. Um, there's quite an interesting situation going

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Speaker 1: home with the June and July and futures. At the

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Speaker 1: moment um, there have been huge influence in oil eks

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks, and this is this

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Speaker 1: is likely. This is likely in flows from retail investors

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Speaker 1: other market participants that are trying to pick the bottom

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Speaker 1: in oil and then end up buying these oil ets.

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Speaker 1: But what oil ets typically do. They buy relatively early

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Speaker 1: months of futures and then and then roll them close

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Speaker 1: to expiry. Over the last few weeks, most of these

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Speaker 1: ets have been rolling into the June and to a

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Speaker 1: certain extent of July future, so they've had very, very

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Speaker 1: significant UH support from these flows. Having said that, though,

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Speaker 1: if you start to look at the actual supply demand

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Speaker 1: situation for oil, it's not so obvious that by the

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Speaker 1: time those contracts expire, the storage situation around Cushing will

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Speaker 1: be very different from what it is in May. And therefore,

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Speaker 1: when ultimately the prices of these futures will need to

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Speaker 1: connect to the physical reality, Uh, then they are likely

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Speaker 1: they are likely to correct lower. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that is a dynamic Um that um is broadly at

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Speaker 1: play in the sense that also this morning you're seeing

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Speaker 1: you're seeing the second month in future, which is the

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Speaker 1: Dune future, and the July future also under under renewed pressure. Again, Martin,

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Speaker 1: that's what I want to discuss with you this morning.

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Speaker 1: I think we're all interested in having that conversation. What

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Speaker 1: is happening in the physical markets, And it's been taking

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Speaker 1: place for a number of weeks now in the United States.

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Speaker 1: As Tom pointed out at the start of this conversation,

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Speaker 1: today it feels more global. The pain starts to spread

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Speaker 1: to the Brent contract in a bigger way. Can you

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Speaker 1: walk us through the individual dynamics of say the US

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Speaker 1: crude market at the moment, just in terms of storage,

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Speaker 1: and compare that to the nature of the logistical limits

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Speaker 1: of say the international markets, which would shake the Brent contract. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: it's a good one. Um. Well, Frankly, this has become

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Speaker 1: a very, very complicated and to a certain extent, someone's

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Speaker 1: frustrating exercise. As in the past, typically when work prices

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Speaker 1: would lower, you would say, look what is the high cost,

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Speaker 1: what's high cost production? And could the countries that supply

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Speaker 1: there was higher called barrels, could their production be at

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Speaker 1: risk sooner than than others. But at the moment um,

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Speaker 1: we're in a situation where, um, there there are so

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Speaker 1: many logistical bottlenecks popping up pretty much in all of

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Speaker 1: the main major producing the countries where they're the whole

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Speaker 1: we see them as low costs or high costs. We're

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Speaker 1: simply running into these logistical issues. For example, Brazil see

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Speaker 1: its relatively favorable on the global cost curve from a

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Speaker 1: pure production cost perspective, but Brazilian oil is tends to

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Speaker 1: be what we call a longhole crewit. It's typically shipped

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Speaker 1: to refine refineries in China and elsewhere in Asia over

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Speaker 1: long distances. But with tanker rates going up so much

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Speaker 1: because we're using tankers to store oil or shore, there's

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Speaker 1: huge demand for tankers, these transportation costs go go higher

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Speaker 1: and higher, which means that also Petro Bross has now

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Speaker 1: said that they will cost two hundred thousand barrels a

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Speaker 1: day of production. Because of this dynamic, you have fruits

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Speaker 1: in Russia for example, or or Nigeria also a good

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Speaker 1: example which we own the whole, do not regard as

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Speaker 1: high cost fruits. But both those countries have very little

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Speaker 1: domestic storage capacity for example, so they will be impacted.

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Speaker 1: So rather than us being able to do a global

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Speaker 1: analysis and say, oh, deed are the high cost producers,

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Speaker 1: these are the locals producers. These will be more impact

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Speaker 1: that these will be less impacted. We now need to

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Speaker 1: start analyzing these hyper local situations around storage depots, around

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Speaker 1: pipeliness connection to the cboard market. And that is just

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Speaker 1: a very nitty gritty analysis that that that that we're

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Speaker 1: all trying to figure out as we speak. Martin, what's

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Speaker 1: so important here is looking out to June and July.

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Speaker 1: Explain why oil isn't like a virus lockdown. How does

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Speaker 1: oil restart? Is it an easy thing to restart demand? Um? No,

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Speaker 1: it's not an easy thing to restart amunks. And the

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Speaker 1: tricky thing is this the restarting, the oil man will

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Speaker 1: likely be uneven across the products, so you would likely

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Speaker 1: see some more driving before we start flying again. Now

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Speaker 1: now that the issue is is that if you put

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Speaker 1: a barrel of crude oil in a refinery, typically you're

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Speaker 1: getta get various products in a certain relatively predetermined mix.

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Speaker 1: An individual refinery, once it's bought, a certain fruit can

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Speaker 1: flex a little bit to produce a bit more gasoline,

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Speaker 1: a bit less jet fuel, but on the whole less.

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Speaker 1: So so it's simply we are not going to be

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Speaker 1: flying anytime soon. That creates all sorts of problems for refineries. Um,

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Speaker 1: if we do need some of the gasoline demands. So um.

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Speaker 1: The uneven nature of the restarted the economy, um is

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Speaker 1: it is a challenging one for the oirange. Fascinating Martin,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining Bloomberg Surveillance this morning.

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Speaker 1: Here again folks with Brent me in like West Texas

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Speaker 1: Intermediate yesterday, Mr Rats is with Morgan Stanley today the

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Speaker 1: government New York temp meeting with the President of the

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Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, in crisis, you really figure out who

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Speaker 1: can do what, and I think everybody, Republicans and Democrats

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Speaker 1: would suggest the Governor of New York has provided leadership.

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Speaker 1: Part of that is he has an e collective group

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Speaker 1: around him, including our wonderful Lieutenant governor from Buffalo, New

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Speaker 1: York uh joining us now? And what is so important

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Speaker 1: about Kathy Hokel as she was originally way back a

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Speaker 1: Democrat and a member of the Conservative Party as well.

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Speaker 1: That is very cool and straddles the emotions of the time.

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Speaker 1: Lieutenant Governor, what would you suggest your governor will say

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Speaker 1: to the President today? Well, as you mentioned, i think

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Speaker 1: it's important for us to work with all of our partners,

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Speaker 1: including the President, Nited States, and what the Governor is

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Speaker 1: going to do is continue to make our case why

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Speaker 1: places like New York State need the federal government's assistant

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Speaker 1: to invoke the Defense Production Act and to help us

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Speaker 1: with supply change, because our way into recovery stems on

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Speaker 1: us be able to have mass scale, life scale testing

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Speaker 1: so we know who have had the virus before so

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Speaker 1: they can be the first to get back to work.

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Speaker 1: But New York can't do this alone. We don't have

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Speaker 1: the access to the chemicals that are necessary to swabs,

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Speaker 1: and the federal government, treating this as a national state

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Speaker 1: of emergency, has the power to invoke to deploy this

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Speaker 1: so states like New York can move faster. Because no

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Speaker 1: one is more anxious to reopen our economy than the

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Speaker 1: governor and myself, So that's what this conversation is about.

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Speaker 1: But also continuing to ask for more money in the

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Speaker 1: next stimulus plan because states are taken on the chin,

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Speaker 1: states like New York more money, and the Conservatives are

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Speaker 1: gonna say, no, we don't want to do that. Where

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Speaker 1: would that money go to? If you get a jillion

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Speaker 1: dollars from Washington, where will it go? Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: our revenues are gone down to a trickle. I mean

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Speaker 1: State of New York is projecting to lose at least

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Speaker 1: fifteen billion dollars in revenues in this budget year, which

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Speaker 1: paralyzes our ability to continue to fund local governments and

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Speaker 1: schools and hospitals and the many programs that are just

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Speaker 1: part of living in New York. And that's that's our challenge.

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Speaker 1: How we meet that. In addition to the exorbitant expenses

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Speaker 1: that have accrued from combating this pandemic, the extra costs

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Speaker 1: for ppe production, protective equipment, of having to purchase ventilators

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Speaker 1: at exorbitant prices because we are competing in a global market,

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Speaker 1: and also just the health care workers, how we're reimbursing

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Speaker 1: and supporting the hospitals to cover all these extraordinary costs,

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Speaker 1: So we have more costs, we have less revenue. We

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Speaker 1: are in a state of crisis in terms of our

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Speaker 1: fiscal state, but our main focus right now is just

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Speaker 1: saving people's lives and continuing to make the trend of

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Speaker 1: new cases continued downward in hospitalizations. So we're spilling liddle

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Speaker 1: the heat of this, but very kind of the fact

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Speaker 1: that the federal government, we hope will understand why a

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Speaker 1: place like New York, how does hit placed in the world,

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Speaker 1: needs additional help from the Feds to help us just

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Speaker 1: get back to some semblance of normal respect to funding

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Speaker 1: essential programs in the state of New York. And Kathy,

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Speaker 1: I was just looking at the Unemployment Trust Fund balance

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Speaker 1: in New York, which has been depleted by almost half,

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Speaker 1: almost entirely given from February through mid April to fight

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Speaker 1: the coronavirus is effects, namely people filing for unemployment. How

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Speaker 1: much longer do you have before that's gone. I don't

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Speaker 1: have a date when that's going to run out, but

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right that there is tremendous stress on a

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Speaker 1: system that think about how we normally would handle maybe

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Speaker 1: fifty even phone calls a week that went from fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand to ten million over a phenomenally short period of time.

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Speaker 1: We have allocated now people on the call lines, we've

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Speaker 1: redone our website, We've tried to make the whole process

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Speaker 1: of applying your But the problem is is that there's

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Speaker 1: a finite amount of money in that fund. So you're

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, this is just another area where New

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Speaker 1: York State could see a shortfall. But the last thing

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Speaker 1: we ever want to stay to New Yorkers who have

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Speaker 1: been hit hard and lost their job and are just

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Speaker 1: reeling in disbelief of what situation has been wrought on

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Speaker 1: their families that we can't say them, there's not money

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Speaker 1: for you to cover unemployment. So we will have to

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Speaker 1: figure that out as well. And that's just another challenge.

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Speaker 1: And why settled assistance in the next stimulus, along with

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Speaker 1: small businesses, along with our farmers and a lot of

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Speaker 1: other entities. Don't forget the five billion dollars that Governor

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Speaker 1: Culmo and Republican Larry Hogan, the chair of the National

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Speaker 1: Governments Association are begging for. Just help us with this

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Speaker 1: and help us get through this time. Kathy, just real

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Speaker 1: quick care of my older son said to me yesterday,

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Speaker 1: do you think that in six months time everything is

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Speaker 1: going to be back to normal. And I said no,

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Speaker 1: and he said, what about a year? What do you

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Speaker 1: think a year would be nice? We don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we we are dealing with the su unknown here. This

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Speaker 1: is unprecedented. So for us as elected officials to try

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Speaker 1: to figure out like a timeline we're in the throes

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Speaker 1: of a crisis. We want to see the light at

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Speaker 1: the end of final We're starting to see a glimmer

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Speaker 1: of it. But we also just recognize that this is

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Speaker 1: going to take some time. And in addition, what is

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Speaker 1: normal going to look like? People are going to feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable going into large venues and on the subway system,

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Speaker 1: in into their workplace. So I think the broad the

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Speaker 1: broad based testing is going to be what gives people

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Speaker 1: some level of comfort. But certainly a vaccination that is

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Speaker 1: widely administrator is what's going to give people the sense

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Speaker 1: like I can go out, I'm going to be saved,

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Speaker 1: my children are going to be fine, and now we'll

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Speaker 1: start creeping back up to the old normal, which may

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Speaker 1: be now an improved normal. We have an opportunity here

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Speaker 1: to reimagine all of our delivery systems of services transportation, healthcare. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is an opportunity that we've created a task force

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Speaker 1: with elected officials, including Mayor of New York City, the

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Speaker 1: county executives of Westchester, Naston Suffolk, and I've asked them

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Speaker 1: to help us reimagine the new economy going forward to

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Speaker 1: New York. So, so that's important but right now, and

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it, and you mentioned me, I'm working together.

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Speaker 1: I was a member of Congress and so I saw

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Speaker 1: gridlock firsthand. I know what this function looks like. And

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Speaker 1: I think what the government doing is creating an opportunity

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Speaker 1: that wasn't there before. But I do want to correct

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Speaker 1: one thing I have. I've been a lifelong member of

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. The Conservatives supported me as well as

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Speaker 1: party way back when I was running a few years ago. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm a proud, very good Democrat in my entire life.

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Speaker 1: Very good. We gotta leave it there, Lieutenant Governor. Thank you. Someone.

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Speaker 1: It's Cathy Hockle Uh today with us we continue. Our

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Speaker 1: discussion was from the Johns Hopkins University School of Nursing.

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Speaker 1: Michelle Patch joins us as she speaks about the health

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Speaker 1: workers of this pandemic. As you mentioned. Our nurses are UH,

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Speaker 1: physicians are UM, all of our health care workers UM

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Speaker 1: are working around the clock right now to try and

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Speaker 1: UM fight against this virus UM. And what we've seen

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Speaker 1: after other disasters like I'm thinking, for instance, hurricanes or tornadoes,

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Speaker 1: or the tragedies that we UM all experienced around nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: they're these fairly predictable phases that we go through collectively.

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Speaker 1: And it starts with the impact of the disaster when

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Speaker 1: it first hits UM. We're going to experience fear and confusion, right,

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Speaker 1: this sounds very familiar to us, right, difficult people leaving

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Speaker 1: it is even happening, and and we make extraordinary effort

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Speaker 1: to protect ourselves and safeguard ourselves and our families UM.

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Speaker 1: And then we move into what we see as kind

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Speaker 1: of this heroic phase when we have a great deal

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Speaker 1: of activity happening. Our adrenaline is surgery. We're all ramping

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Speaker 1: up to help UM, and it moves quickly into what

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Speaker 1: is called by UM many as this honeymoon shase. We're

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Speaker 1: bonding back together and disaster assistance is coming online and

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Speaker 1: is active. We're optimistic, we're gonna get through this, We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get back to normal quickly, and unfortunately that doesn't

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Speaker 1: last long UM, and we tend to move into disillusionment.

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Speaker 1: We realize what those limitations of our disaster assistances, and

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Speaker 1: we've been working so hard it becomes extraordinarily exhausting physically

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Speaker 1: and mentally UM, and negative responses to those stressors start

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Speaker 1: to come out. UM. When that demand for help starts

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Speaker 1: out stripping our resources, we it makes sense. We feel lost,

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Speaker 1: we're abandoned, we feel angry, right, and that can take

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Speaker 1: months to years before moving into reconstruction and recovery phase. So, Professor,

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Speaker 1: what is the number one advice to actually try and

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Speaker 1: bolster each other, but also for for people in the

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Speaker 1: front line in this very difficult time. Sure, right now

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Speaker 1: we're somewhere between a honeymoon and disillusionment, right and we're

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Speaker 1: kind of moving back and forth between those. UM. We

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Speaker 1: have many who are really maintaining an optimistic stance and

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Speaker 1: communities working together or providing whatever they can uh to

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Speaker 1: fight this virus. We're also seeing increasing conflict and voices

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Speaker 1: of those wanting to move on to open back up

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Speaker 1: to businesses. UM. We have those who are tired and

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Speaker 1: angry and worried, and they don't they worry, they don't

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Speaker 1: have what they have to safely continue, and they're physically

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Speaker 1: and mentally exhausted. They realize, UM, very much of this

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Speaker 1: is a marathon. So and bolstering each other will require

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Speaker 1: actively caring for ourselves and each other. UM. Continuing to

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Speaker 1: advocate for increasing supplies, increasing testing, supporting our leaders developing vaccine.

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Speaker 1: But it's okay to know it's not It's okay to

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Speaker 1: not be okay right now. UM. Continue to reach out

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Speaker 1: to others from a safe distance, take advantage of our

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Speaker 1: electronomy devices to connect UM and and really, uh, watch

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Speaker 1: out for our friends, our families, look to Spiritual Advisor's therapists.

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Speaker 1: And it's okay to breathe. It's okay to cry and

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Speaker 1: UM and to keep moving forward. Michelle, one final question,

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Speaker 1: if I could. The President overnights decided he's going to

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Speaker 1: put out an executive order limiting or banning immigration in

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Speaker 1: the United States. He talks about the threats of the virus,

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Speaker 1: the invisible enemy that's out there. I was thunderstruck to

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Speaker 1: learn the of doctors and of nurses are immigrants. How

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Speaker 1: do those nurses become nurses in the United States? Do

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Speaker 1: they just show up and they're hired or is there licensing?

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Speaker 1: How is that process work at your Johns Hopkins University?

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Speaker 1: Sure yes, UM for UH. For from time immemorial, we

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Speaker 1: have relied very heavily on UM, a wonderful workforce that

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Speaker 1: comes from everywhere across the globe. UM. As we have

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Speaker 1: individuals come to our country UM wanting who we have

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Speaker 1: practice nursing in other countries UM and want to continue

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Speaker 1: to do that here for us. In the United States,

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Speaker 1: we do have each state has a different board of

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Speaker 1: Nursing UH that provides a licensure for those individuals. They

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Speaker 1: will have to take a licensure exam UM to show

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Speaker 1: that they have that background UM. And and there are

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Speaker 1: also opportunities at various colleges and universities in the event

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Speaker 1: that they may be lacking something that was needed for

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Speaker 1: that licensure, that they can take that UM. There also

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Speaker 1: are many programs that UM encourage folks to come from

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Speaker 1: other countries UM and help support them in that transition. UH.

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Speaker 1: It is UM. It's worrisome UH to UM have limitations

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Speaker 1: at this point when we so desperately need UM folks

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Speaker 1: on the front line to turn away those who have

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Speaker 1: those skills and resources. Michelle Patch Johns Hopkins University. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen

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Speaker 1: to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform

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Speaker 1: you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keane before the podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio