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Speaker 1: Music Saved Me. Well, welcome to the Music Save Me Podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we explore the transformative power of music in healing, recovery,

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Speaker 1: and resilience. I'm your host, Lynn Hoffman, and today we

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Speaker 1: have a truly special conversation ahead. I'm so excited. It's

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Speaker 1: months in the making. Dare I say maybe even years.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today is doctor Ron Hirschberg, a pioneering figure

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Speaker 1: in the field of veteran mental health and traumatic brain

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Speaker 1: injury recovery. As the brain health and trauma consultant for

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Speaker 1: the Home Based Program, a national nonprofit dedicated to healing

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Speaker 1: the invisible wounds of war for veterans, service members and

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Speaker 1: their families, Doctor Hirschberg has been at the forefront of innovative,

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Speaker 1: comprehensive care that addresses these complex challenges that are faced

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Speaker 1: by those who've served our country. Home Base, a Red

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Speaker 1: Sox Foundation and Massachusetts General Hospital program, has helped thousands

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Speaker 1: of veterans and their families through evidence based clinical care,

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Speaker 1: wellness programs, and community outreach, and under doctor Hirschberg's leadership,

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Speaker 1: the organization has become a beacon of hope for those

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Speaker 1: struggling with post traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury, and the

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Speaker 1: many challenges of military to civilian transition. Today, we are

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Speaker 1: going to explore how music intersects with this vital work,

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Speaker 1: from music therapy and clinical settings, to the role of

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Speaker 1: rhythm and sound in healing trauma, and the ways that

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Speaker 1: music can rebuild connection, purpose, and joy in the lives

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Speaker 1: of veterans and their loved ones. Coming right up, we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk with the incredible doctor Ron Hirshberg Music

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Speaker 1: Saved Me. Doctor Hirschberg, Welcome to Music Save Me. It's

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Speaker 1: so great to have you here and to meet you

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Speaker 1: finally in person and I get to hear about all

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Speaker 1: the great stuff you got cooking.

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Speaker 2: Oh thanks for having me. Lynn, It's really great to

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Speaker 2: be here. I love what you and Buzz are doing

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Speaker 2: on this podcast and it's a really really preaching to

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Speaker 2: the choir. So thanks.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's always exciting to know how music is helping

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Speaker 1: people survive and thrive, and especially with the things that

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Speaker 1: you're doing. Can you just tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about just to start about your journey to home base

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Speaker 1: and what specific role that you have seen music play

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Speaker 1: in the healing process for veterans who are dealing with

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Speaker 1: PTSD and traumatic brain injury.

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Speaker 2: Sure you know, music has has been a part of

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Speaker 2: my life personally, you know, ever since I was a

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Speaker 2: little kid and going into medicine in you know, your

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Speaker 2: early two thousands, there was there was always this sort

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Speaker 2: of tug and pull about what you can do with

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Speaker 2: creativity in a profession. And I got the bug to

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Speaker 2: get into you know, to working with people and going

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Speaker 2: into rehab medicine, which is it's called physical meta in

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Speaker 2: rehab in a residency down in Boston, and then one

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Speaker 2: thing led to another and I started working as a

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Speaker 2: consultant in neurological rehab and trauma rehab. You know, over

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Speaker 2: the years, I've been really interested in not just how

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Speaker 2: people recover from medicines and physical therapy and different types

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Speaker 2: of treatments, but also what resonates with them in the arts.

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Speaker 2: And one thing is clearly kind of connects with all

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Speaker 2: of us as music and can do a lot of

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Speaker 2: wild things to the brain and really offer another avenue

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Speaker 2: for rehabilitation recovery. I think getting towards home base. In

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, I was working in a Spalding rehab and

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Speaker 2: my chairman at the time needed someone to help out

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Speaker 2: at home base. And I'm a civilian, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I was kind of launched into the military veteran community

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Speaker 2: and just just fell in love with a mission and

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Speaker 2: how everybody around it, no matter what you do at homebase,

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Speaker 2: you're all behind that single mission to stomp Sigma, to

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Speaker 2: help invisible wounds and really help people transition from being

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Speaker 2: in the service to as being a civilian. So I

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Speaker 2: got involved a home base around that time, and then

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, I was involved with General Hammond, who was,

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Speaker 2: as Buzz was saying, was on this show, who was

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Speaker 2: the executive director of home Base. Amazing guy. He and

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Speaker 2: Mike Allard, who's the chief operating officer, asked me to

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Speaker 2: be involved in Boston Hope, which was the COVID Field

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Speaker 2: Hospital in twenty twenty, and so that's really around the

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Speaker 2: time I got more involved in home base and how

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Speaker 2: we can help veterans with other types of therapies. So

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Speaker 2: the last like five years I've been involved in some

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Speaker 2: of that in the area of what we call well being,

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Speaker 2: in wellness and then brain health. So that was kind

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Speaker 2: of the quick journey into Homebase.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, what made you so interested in doing

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Speaker 1: that work? I mean, did you have people from the

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Speaker 1: military and your family growing up, or did you witness

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Speaker 1: things with friends.

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Speaker 2: I do have a friend that was in the army

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Speaker 2: that did go through some challenging trauma family wise. No,

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Speaker 2: I have a great uncle that was in World War Two,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't grow up around the military table, so

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Speaker 2: to speak, the dinner table, so to speak. Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 2: I think in twenty seventeen, I was just a little

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Speaker 2: bit more pulled towards it. There's something about raising your

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Speaker 2: hand and doing something that's bigger than yourself that is

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Speaker 2: pretty amazing. And I think a lot of people in

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Speaker 2: the military and families are part of a self culture

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Speaker 2: that really can not only heal in a certain way,

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Speaker 2: but they heal with each other. Yeah, and that was

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Speaker 2: really intriguing too.

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Speaker 1: It's hard not to want to help when those are

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Speaker 1: so selfless that they want to help all of us.

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Speaker 1: And I agree with you. My dad suffered horribly with

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Speaker 1: PTSD growing up, although we didn't know what that was

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Speaker 1: at the time, and it took a long long time

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Speaker 1: to figure out what it exactly was. Had I only

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Speaker 1: known then that music would be so helpful, but come

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Speaker 1: to find out years later now my dad's passed, but

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Speaker 1: I found like his old CD collection and it was

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Speaker 1: just like it was massive. I had no idea how

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Speaker 1: much he loved music. So there's such a connection there

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Speaker 1: that I wish I knew more.

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Speaker 2: Wow, was he in the Vietnam He was.

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Speaker 1: He was a Green Beret in Vietnam Special Forces. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was involved in a lot of stuff that he

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Speaker 1: very rarely spoke of.

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Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things about Vietnam too, is

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Speaker 2: you know, is that they you know, it's very common

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Speaker 2: knowledge now that the welcome home was so poor at

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Speaker 2: that I mean, it was not a welcome that they deserved.

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Speaker 2: And so Home Base has really made a has had

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Speaker 2: a push over years to really honor all service members

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Speaker 2: from all eras. So people like who your dad, I'm

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Speaker 2: sorry your dad has passed, and thank you for you know,

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Speaker 2: for your family service. That honor all eras, not just

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Speaker 2: the post nine to eleven, you know, younger veterans, but

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Speaker 2: at all types.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, people see on TV all the time all

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Speaker 1: the beautiful honors and things that go on today, and

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Speaker 1: how much we think the men and women who go

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Speaker 1: do the work that you know, to give us the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to live the lives that we live and I

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Speaker 1: feel like we lose a lot of the information from

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Speaker 1: those times. I mean, my dad was spit on when

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Speaker 1: he got off the plane when he came home. These

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Speaker 1: men and women were like just discarded, like they were

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Speaker 1: treated like garbage. And yeah, it's it's pretty cool how

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Speaker 1: things have turned around and places like home Base are

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Speaker 1: starting to come up everywhere. I mean, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of good that's being done now, but it's hard. So

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Speaker 1: we have to remember and tell people these things so

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Speaker 1: that they know and then working with these men and

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Speaker 1: women has to be an incredibly rewarding experience, especially with music.

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Speaker 1: So from a neurological perspective, doctor, what happens in the

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Speaker 1: brain when someone I've always been fascinated by this when

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Speaker 1: someone with trauma engages with music, And are there more

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Speaker 1: particular types of Are there particular types of musical experiences

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Speaker 1: that are extremely effective or more effective, especially with the veterans.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's it's really interesting because you think

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Speaker 2: about the music that resonates with us as kids. In

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Speaker 2: other words, what are the types of positive memories that

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Speaker 2: we have that, let's say, someone who's serving has had

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Speaker 2: when they were between the ages of thirteen and twenty

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Speaker 2: eight or something like that. It's been studied as far

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Speaker 2: as like sort of where the area of the brain

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Speaker 2: in the hippocampus shows specific memories to musical memory, and

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Speaker 2: so you know, the hippocampus, the center of the memory

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Speaker 2: in the brain, is actually not so far away from

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Speaker 2: the amygdala, which is the center of fear and the

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Speaker 2: response that isn't implicated in PTSD and stress. And so

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Speaker 2: there has been a lot of thought and work around

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Speaker 2: the fact that when you connect the distant memories, they

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Speaker 2: may be connected to some fear responses or some positive responses,

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Speaker 2: and it's kind of unclear how you can harness that

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Speaker 2: to help people heal. But there really is something that

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Speaker 2: is connected to memory and positive memories and negative and

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Speaker 2: negative stress memories. So that's that's part of it. And

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Speaker 2: in music in general, you know, neurologically affects every part.

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Speaker 1: Of the brain.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you when you do like these fancy

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Speaker 2: imaging studies and functional MRI, you see that music lights

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Speaker 2: up the cortex and the top of the brain, the

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Speaker 2: middle of the brain and the what's you know, the

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Speaker 2: what's called the subcortical or or the basal ganglia, which

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Speaker 2: are the deep structures that are that are affected in Parkinson's,

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Speaker 2: the cerebellum in the back of the brain, the the

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Speaker 2: balance centers, even the brain stem has been shown to

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Speaker 2: light up with certain types of music. So it's very diffuse.

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Speaker 2: I think we're just in the infancy now of knowing

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Speaker 2: like what types of music will help treat certain problems

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Speaker 2: or issues. Yeah, and and the stimuli. I mean, one

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Speaker 2: thing we're looking at right currently coincidentally at home Base

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Speaker 2: is looking at types of stimuli of different two different

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Speaker 2: types of music actually for PTSD, and we're in the

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Speaker 2: middle of a study recruiting for veterans with PTSD that

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Speaker 2: we're looking at a major minor scale, which is sort

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Speaker 2: of a classic Western pop rock derivation, and then you

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Speaker 2: have the Lydian scale, which is a sort of a

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Speaker 2: tweak from that. I think the F sharp becomes an

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Speaker 2: F major in them in the major scale. And so

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Speaker 2: we have someone working with us that has been involved

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Speaker 2: in music therapy anyway, we're comparing these two types of

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Speaker 2: stimuli to see if one of them leads to less stress,

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Speaker 2: and that is this one. You know, there's so much

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Speaker 2: going on in the world of music cognition and research.

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Speaker 2: This is just one thing we're adding to the mix,

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Speaker 2: so that that's that's in the research. Fascinating, Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean because you think, can you do mindfulness meditation practices,

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Speaker 2: of course that will help people heal, but can you

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Speaker 2: also have other types of stimuli with music or visual

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Speaker 2: arts that will really be effective in dampening the stress

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Speaker 2: without medications or in addition to you know, a medication regiment.

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Speaker 1: Sure wouldn't that be nice? Can you imagine the day

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Speaker 1: that you could prescribe music straight without any medications to

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Speaker 1: interact with that?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Music? You know, it's really interesting because there's a

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Speaker 2: feel called precision medicine that that you know, medicine is

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Speaker 2: really currently headed towards, and that's really tailoring people's diagnoses

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Speaker 2: with the specific medicine based on their genetics and everything else.

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Speaker 2: And you do wonder, you know, if music will follow

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Speaker 2: that as a stimuli for different diagnoses. Met Rhythms Is

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Speaker 2: is an organization that I was involved that have been

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Speaker 2: involved in that is a great music funny.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to bring that up to you

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Speaker 1: actually because I believe I interviewed the gentleman in judge.

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Speaker 2: Of Brian Brian Harris.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's unbelievable stuff.

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Speaker 2: He's great. He's a real driven, amazing music therapist who's

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Speaker 2: created a company with his friend Owen McCarthy and met

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Speaker 2: Rhythms has been very effective for stroke in Parkinson's and

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Speaker 2: other inn ms. It's based on rhythm, Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 2: based on the science of neurologic music therapy. So there's

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Speaker 2: not only like the sounds as we were talking about

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Speaker 2: different types of music that are effective, but there's also

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Speaker 2: the fact that there's something really magical about rhythm that

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Speaker 2: can help people with neurologically.

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Speaker 1: My mom has a friend who had a stroke, yes,

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Speaker 1: and she said that when they would get in the car, well,

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Speaker 1: when they do get in the car to go have

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Speaker 1: lunch and hang out together, when she puts on the

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Speaker 1: music in the car for them driving to the restaurant

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Speaker 1: because she had issues with speech and coming up with

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Speaker 1: the right words and stuff after she recovered, and she

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Speaker 1: said she knew all the words of the song, she

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Speaker 1: sings along to the song perfectly, yeah, but can't come

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Speaker 1: up with what, you know, She'll look at the words

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Speaker 1: on the page, try to, you know, order something at

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Speaker 1: the restaurant and can't you know, get the right words out.

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Speaker 1: So there's definitely something there that's incredibly I don't know, magic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you see that with Alzheimer's dementia all the time,

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Speaker 2: and it's a It gets back to what we were

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Speaker 2: talking about before with the hippocampus and some of the

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Speaker 2: musical memories that are preserved that may be preserved much

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Speaker 2: longer than sort of usual memories.

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved

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Speaker 3: Me Podcast. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Do you have an experience like that, maybe without necessarily

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Speaker 1: identifying who it is of like a veteran whose whose

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Speaker 1: life was impacted or in or her family's lives were

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Speaker 1: impacted by music during the recovery at Home Base?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think what was really impactful at

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Speaker 2: Home Base was in twenty twenty when twenty twenty one

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Speaker 2: when we worked with songwriting with soldiers. This is an

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Speaker 2: incredible group out of Nashville. I think they've written more

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Speaker 2: than a thousand songs over the years, and they are

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Speaker 2: co writers with veterans. These are professional songwriters. And we

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Speaker 2: did another study a pilot. It was a small study

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Speaker 2: of ten veterans and who wrote ten songs, meaning one song.

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Speaker 2: Each we did pre and post measures of stress and

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Speaker 2: coping and depression and PTSD. It was a really it

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Speaker 2: was impact full study because we did show that pre

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Speaker 2: and posts they were able to show improvement with their

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Speaker 2: stress and depression. However, the songs are beautiful. I can

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Speaker 2: send them to you and they're on a we have

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Speaker 2: a link we can give you and they are these

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Speaker 2: sessions that we created of two hours where one on

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Speaker 2: one in a closed door, a professional songwriter sits with

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Speaker 2: a veteran and they open up. Well, the veteran, like

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Speaker 2: a clean slate, will we'll start talking about their experiences

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Speaker 2: and the songwriter, who's been trained in trauma focused therapy

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Speaker 2: will also will say things like tell me about this

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Speaker 2: and then that word, that phrase that's that's the chorus

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Speaker 2: or they'll say, okay, we got to work with that

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Speaker 2: because when you said I don't know, I'll just make

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Speaker 2: up a word troubled or you know, warrior are something

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Speaker 2: out like that. Something will stick and then they'll try

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Speaker 2: to They'll they'll do words around the chorus and then

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Speaker 2: create verses together and it's a communal collabor it's a

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Speaker 2: collaboration in the project. In the song, so I mean

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Speaker 2: to your question, I definitely saw more than one. One

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Speaker 2: comes to mind as a gentleman named Blair who was

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Speaker 2: a medic and an Air Force medic. He worked with

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Speaker 2: the army in Post nine to eleven in Afghanistan, and

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Speaker 2: he talks about saving fellow veterans on the battlefield, but

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Speaker 2: the guilt of maybe not being able to help them

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Speaker 2: medically because he also wore the hat as the Corman

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Speaker 2: the medic. And it was a very powerful song that

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Speaker 2: he wrote these lyrics, and he wound up playing it

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Speaker 2: for his family members and friends and it was very

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Speaker 2: therapeutic for him because it not only is a chance

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Speaker 2: to really unleash and sort of open up up and

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Speaker 2: get it all out with the songwriter, but it's an

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Speaker 2: ongoing recorded song that they could say, please listen to

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Speaker 2: this and let's talk about it. And it feels good

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Speaker 2: even just to give the person like the MP three

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Speaker 2: or the link. Yeah. So yeah, that he comes to mind.

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Speaker 2: Of those, there's ten great songs.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be. I've spoken to a few veterans

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Speaker 1: who've worked with music like you just described, and there's

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Speaker 1: got to be also some part of it, just the

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Speaker 1: process of making it where you're focused only on it,

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Speaker 1: which also I've heard many times, you know, and constantly

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Speaker 1: playing music, you know, playing a three minute song and

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Speaker 1: then they're back to their problem that they were having before.

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Speaker 1: But they wanted to continue to play music because it

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Speaker 1: kept their mind from thinking about other things, which makes

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense. It's always music has also been

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Speaker 1: a part of the military culture for a long time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's always kick ass music playing when they're

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Speaker 1: on going to a mission, something to like pump them up,

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Speaker 1: inspire them know they're doing the right thing. But it

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Speaker 1: also is part of a time where it could be

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Speaker 1: extremely difficult for them being at war or in the

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Speaker 1: military fighting that relationship with music. How do you work

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Speaker 1: with that because you got to navigate between music that's

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Speaker 1: helping them but also maybe might be triggering them at

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Speaker 1: the same time.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a great point, is there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of memories that are like smells or sounds or sites. Right,

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Speaker 2: hearing is one of the five senses. So definitely I've

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Speaker 2: talked with people that have you know, they hear something

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Speaker 2: or see something and it really does bring them back

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Speaker 2: sometimes I guess, you know, it can be very traumatic

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Speaker 2: because certainly it will bring you back to Fallujah or

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Speaker 2: Afghan Sampson or wherever Vietnam immediately. But the flip side

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Speaker 2: is it can be healing because there is a certain

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Speaker 2: comfort that the brotherhood sisterhood have with each other. And

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Speaker 2: so you mentioned this in the beginning. There's something about

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Speaker 2: transitions and the military world, the veteran going into civilian

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Speaker 2: society that is so much of the challenge that we

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Speaker 2: see at home base. Yes, it's about depression anxiety PTSD

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Speaker 2: with or without substance use at times, but a lot

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Speaker 2: of times it's about transitions. One thing that's very clear

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Speaker 2: is that many soldiers or sailors that have been overseas

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Speaker 2: have a certain type of comfort and belonging with each other.

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Speaker 2: And so it's possible that you, you know, you'll hear

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Speaker 2: a song or see something and it will bring them

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Speaker 2: back right to the bunker where maybe you and I

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Speaker 2: who haven't served overseas would be fearful, they would be

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Speaker 2: comforted by knowing that that's that's where they are. Sort

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Speaker 2: of ironically, they were sleeping the best they were, They

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Speaker 2: were happy, which is which is kind of a hard

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Speaker 2: thing to uh to grapple with sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Sure is I mean and in a way when you

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Speaker 1: think about it, I mean, of course that's the worst

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Speaker 1: of the worst war fighting. You're trained to be a machine, really,

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Speaker 1: But in general, in life, we do go through a

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Speaker 1: lot of transitions that were not prepared for, parenthood, retirement,

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Speaker 1: transitioning into different roles in your life. So I would

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Speaker 1: imagine that in general, whenever you're moving out of something

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Speaker 1: that's big into something that's big in your life, you're

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Speaker 1: going to need some help. And why can't it be music?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I totally agree. You know, it should be

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Speaker 2: part of the whole transition program.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you what gives you hope in this work?

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Speaker 1: And if you could share, you know, one message with

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Speaker 1: veterans who may be struggling right now, or anyone who

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Speaker 1: may be struggling right now about the potential for healing

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Speaker 1: through music and comprehensive care, what would that be.

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Speaker 2: I would say that, although it sounds cliche, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of hope out there for people that are having

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Speaker 2: a really tough time and that they're much less alone

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Speaker 2: than they think they are. Is music going to be

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Speaker 2: the answer? Of course not, but is it part of

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Speaker 2: the answer. I think that the arts and music can

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Speaker 2: really do something, to use your word again, magical that

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Speaker 2: that medicine can't and therapy can't. And I think that

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Speaker 2: we're getting to a point where creativity and the arts

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Speaker 2: can really be a wonderful compliment to traditional therapy. And

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Speaker 2: I and I what I'm sort of you know, what

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking about here is the roughly twenty two or more,

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Speaker 2: you know suicie a day that our veterans, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's roughly one an hour every single day there's a

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Speaker 2: veteran that takes his or her life. It is a

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Speaker 2: really sobering statistic. You know, We're not there yet. I

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Speaker 2: don't know when we will be, but I really hope

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Speaker 2: that music in the arts will be part of that

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Speaker 2: healing journey that really takes people back to their youth.

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Speaker 2: It is something that is can be kind of a

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Speaker 2: calming force for people. And hopefully, like we were saying before,

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Speaker 2: there'll be some precision medicine and music where we can

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Speaker 2: really look towards trauma and towards some of those you know,

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Speaker 2: very dark regions of depression that music can be part of,

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Speaker 2: at least in addition to everything else.

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Speaker 1: So that's a beautiful hope. And yeah, and I second that,

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Speaker 1: and I know probably everyone I know would agree with

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Speaker 1: you on that. And speaking of creativity, I heard and

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Speaker 1: if you're willing to talk about it, if not, I won't.

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Speaker 1: But I heard you were working on in the arts,

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Speaker 1: a new documentary. Can you tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about what you're working?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, I love to It's I'm a

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Speaker 2: little over my head, but I definitely It's the first

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Speaker 2: one I've done, and I'm excited. I'm speaking of music,

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Speaker 2: working with an amazing musician named Vadim Nazlowski, who's a

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Speaker 2: pianist who's at Berkeley School Music. The film is a

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Speaker 2: short film that's going to be about a half hour.

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Speaker 2: I was inspired by going to Ukraine with home base

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Speaker 2: actually in March, looking at invisible wounds and partnering with

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Speaker 2: the psychologists and physicians there, and we saw many soldiers

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Speaker 2: and families, and one soldier named Sasha in particular, I

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Speaker 2: got to know. I met with him in his room

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Speaker 2: and he happened to be a professional ballet dancer and he's,

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Speaker 2: you know, for he's forty years old or so and

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Speaker 2: grew up in the ballet. And when the full scale

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Speaker 2: invasion happened in Februar twenty twenty two. He's married with

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Speaker 2: the daughter. They were all in Kiev, but he was

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Speaker 2: in Paris at the time on tour with the Kiev

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Speaker 2: City Ballet and he got the news and said he

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Speaker 2: raised his hand and said, I'm going to the army

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Speaker 2: and he joined the military. And Sasha, you know, went

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Speaker 2: through as an artist. He was, he's always been a

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Speaker 2: soloist on stage as a principal dancer. It follows his

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Speaker 2: story into the battlefield where he's injured by a one

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Speaker 2: of those, you know, the drones that are becoming more

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Speaker 2: and more scary overseas. So he's psychologically affected by this

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Speaker 2: drone and he goes and he gets help in that

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Speaker 2: hospital that we met and recovers and then he goes

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Speaker 2: back to fight. And so yeah, for the last like

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Speaker 2: six months, I've been involved in this and I have

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Speaker 2: a whole team of people, and even my daughter who's seventeen,

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Speaker 2: is my production assistant, you know, and uh, that's wonderful. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm excited. So we'll have the trailer out soon and

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Speaker 2: and yeah, it gets into the sort of that same

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Speaker 2: the same kind of path of we're talking about is

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Speaker 2: arts and healing and I'm really thrilled of the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to do it with home Base and with you know,

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Speaker 2: with this, with this crew people.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited for you. You know, these aren't easy things doing.

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Speaker 1: Forget about the the topic of what you're dealing with,

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Speaker 1: but then producing a documentary, as I'm sure you're finding out,

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Speaker 1: isn't It's not.

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Speaker 2: As easy as you think.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of moving parts, yeah, going on.

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Speaker 2: So such a learning process. You have a great editor,

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Speaker 2: a d Nis, my cousin who's a producer, and a

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Speaker 2: film professor Jeff Hirschberg. So we've got two Hirschberg's on this,

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00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: and and my daughter so a third. So we call

436
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: it Deer Mountain Pictures, which is Hirsh is deer and

437
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 2: Berg is Mountain. So and then the name that in

438
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: the name of the movie a family. What's it called name?

439
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 2: The name of the movie is standing up against the Sky.

440
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: And uh, yeah, I'll definitely let you and Buzz know

441
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 2: what it's coming out.

442
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Please, Oh, let me ask real quick, is AI

443
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: involved in any of this studies and advancements in using

444
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: music with all A great question? You think that will

445
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: have anything to help?

446
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: It's I hope that I think it will in sort

447
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: of the healing process. It's already you know, we're already

448
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 2: seeing how Ai is literally writing songs like in a minute.

449
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: It's going to do some pretty great things. I think

450
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: it's going to do some scary things too. Of course,

451
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 2: is putting people out of business artists, which is a

452
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: little bizarre. Will it hopefully help with that prescription, I

453
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: don't know. I think you're onto something, Lynn, That's pretty cool.

454
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: I hope.

455
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 2: So.

456
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: I always try to look at what the positives are,

457
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 1: and there's just so many. I mean, I'm thinking like

458
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: blind people will see, people without appendages will walk, you know,

459
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: just I can't. You've got to focus on the positives, right,

460
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: because the negatives are there's just way too many of those.

461
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: I know.

462
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: That is really exciting, Doctor Ron Hirschberg. It is so

463
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,239
Speaker 1: amazing to meet you and chat with you about all

464
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: of this stuff. And likewise, I'm honored to have had

465
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: you on and keep doing what you're doing, and please

466
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 1: come back and let us know when you've come up

467
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: with exact prescriptions.

468
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: Because then we all need it.

469
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: Then won't be in the next phase of everything. Good

470
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: luck with everything at home Base, and please tell the

471
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: general we said hello

472
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: I will, I will absolutely thanks so much, thank you,