WEBVTT - The Fall (2006) with Ali El-Sadany 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:03.920 On the Bechdel Cast, the questions ask if movies have 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.960 women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:12.400 or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn, best 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.280 start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.680 Hey, Caitlin, Hey Jamie, here's the thing I want to die, 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:24.840 but maybe we should do some sort of bartering thing first. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.160 Well, you have to tell me your story first. 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.120 Okay, but like make sure you're doing some like petty 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.680 crime for me. Okay, okay. The many ways in which 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.839 Lee peys acts completely out of pocket this movie. He's like, 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.360 it's a too urgent. I have to od in front 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:44.559 of this kid, Oh, who is addicted to lying and 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.919 definitely will not leave the room. Lee, Lee, Lee, all right, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:50.240 Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.040 My name's Jamie, my name is Caitlin. This is our 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.160 show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, 0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:00.200 using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. Yeah, 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.640 and what pray tell is that, Jamie. 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.720 Well, it's a media metric created by our dear friend 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.440 Alison Bechdel, who originally put the metric in a comic 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.520 in her iconic comic collection Dice to watch out for 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.360 in the eighties, lots of versions of this test. Here's 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.759 the version we use. We require that there be two 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.040 characters of a marginalized gender with names who speak to 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.960 each other about something other than a man for more 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.959 than two lines of meaningful dialogue. I was I was 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:35.920 a little worried about this. I have to say Bechdel 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.520 test wise, I was worried. But we we get there. 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:40.560 It would have been it would have been objectively a 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.040 bad look twenty nine countries and it doesn't pass the 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:48.600 Bechdel test. That would be pretty incredible. But Spoilerer, we're fine. 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.880 And yeah, we have a sticky, little but in yet 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:57.800 gigantic movie that we're covering today. Yes, The Fall two 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:59.640 thousand and six. Ever heard of it? 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:00.720 You may not have. 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.840 And it's such an interesting story. Why it's basically like 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.000 this director's Megalopolis, except. 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.160 Except it's actually watchable. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.720 Except when I watch it, I'm like, Okay, I basically 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.360 know what's happening, right, And we have an incredible guest 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:20.080 to discuss with us. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.840 Indeed, he is the editor at film Slop. 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.560 It's Ali, Hello, how's it going? 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:27.960 Thanks for having me. 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.120 Well, thank you for joining us and bringing us the fall. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.280 Yeah, truly what a moment. I was thinking as well, 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.480 because I know you're a fellow minion's head. I was 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:41.440 thinking as I was watching this, I was like, okay, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.760 kind of a love letter to old Hollywood, not unlike. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:51.680 Maybe this is Actually this is a really good segue. 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.600 Because I was thinking about this. I have something unlike 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.840 the Beckadul test, called the menion test that I run 0:02:57.919 --> 0:02:59.799 in my head, and this is one of the few 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.800 move because that passes. The test is essentially, if you 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.000 replace a main character with a minion, will the movie 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.680 get better or worse? And most of the time the 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:09.520 movie will get better if you're a place of a minion. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.040 But this is the one movie I can like just 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.359 completely say if you replace a character with a minion, 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.519 the movie will be worse. So I'm pretty excited to 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.639 get into that. I think the little girl, if you 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.120 replace her with a minion, you can't do that. She's 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:22.840 better than Anyia. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:24.760 No, I can't do that. She's irreplaceable. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.520 You can't replace Roy with a minion. 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.080 No, because minions can't die, right, And I mean it's 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.560 much lower like you can give a minion all the 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.760 morphine you want, nothing's going to happen. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:37.400 I mean, they'll probably go to sleep for a while. 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:38.960 I feel like they're not a milliono morphin and they're 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:39.600 gonna like it. 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.640 That's true, They're just gonna get hooked. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.040 Okay. I love the minion test. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:47.040 I try to think about it. Usually when there's a 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.760 child actor, if you can replace I think, because most 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.480 most child actors are pretty replaceable with minions. 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.280 But I mean, I don't disagree. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.480 You could replace it with a poopy situation. 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.440 Yeah likely. I also, I mean, not to get into 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.320 the plot of the movie, the little girl at the 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:05.280 center of the movie is basically a median. She's like 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.160 attached herself to a kind of terrible person. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:09.880 It's kind of her growth. 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:14.000 Does his bidding with whatever he wants. WHOA Wow, that's 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:15.560 why I like this movie above all. 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.400 Well, yeah, tell us your your relationship, your history with 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:20.240 this movie. 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.800 I have a pretty deep history of this movie. I 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.040 think I came across it randomly. Honestly, don't remember how 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.160 I came across it, but it's one of the movies 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.040 that I watched and it really made me unlock why 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.760 I loved movies I like, I think honestly, before I 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.160 became a cinephile. Sorry I just said that out lot. 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:39.120 I really don't like. 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.640 The word cinophil Okay, brag. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.640 Maybe maybe maybe a better term for cinephile movie lover. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:47.880 But like before I became a movie perfer, I think 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.719 it was one of the first better maybe just branding 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.159 cinephile to movie perfer. It's like one of the first 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.240 ever movies that I saw that just really unlocked the 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.479 medium for me, maybe six years ago. And then I 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.560 remember I was having a really stressful day a week 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.680 after at work, and I started googling pretty shots from 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.560 The Fall just to destress, and then all of a sudden, 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.600 I found myself watching three hours of content from The Falls. 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.720 I was like, might as well just watch the movie, 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.279 and I continued watching it, and then it just became 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.479 something really special to me. And whenever I tell people 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.360 that I love movies, that always asked me, what is 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.799 your favorite movie? This is one of the top three. 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.280 And there's a huge issue I have with doing this 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.400 because there is that movie that came out in twenty 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.320 twenty two called Fall, which is just a terrible movie 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.080 about rock climbers. I think I don't get the premise. 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.160 They're like trying to climb a thing. But everyone's like, oh, 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:37.400 you love that movie, and then I have to end 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.320 up in this hole. No, not that one, it's the 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:40.880 one from two thousand and six, and then I sound 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.080 like a pretentious juice bag, which I really don't like doing. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:48.960 But oh, there's also that show called The Fall. Yeah, Jamie, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:50.040 what is his name? 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:50.680 Oh? 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.560 I was like, what the fifty Shades of great guy? 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:53.840 Oh? 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:56.400 Yeah, right, he's in that. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:57.839 Yeah, I don't know. 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.919 I looked at the post and I was like, I 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.080 bet my mom would have something to say about this show. 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.480 It just looks like a Jill a show for Jill, 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.680 which generally means that it's none of my business. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.640 But yeah, every time I tell people I like The Fall, 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:15.960 I always have to coffee out with actually that one. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.240 And I feel like, if you're gonna name your movie 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.120 something related to The Fall, it has to be a 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.560 good movie, because then I walk out embarrassed, feeling like 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.000 someone thinks that I'm a huge fan of the rock 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.640 climbing movie, which rock climbing is a concept, is just 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:30.880 something I don't condone or support or believe in. 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.839 Heavy as the crown that lies on the letterbox user, 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.640 you know it is. It's a tough it's a tough 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.359 world out there. Yeah, I feel like this movie is 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:46.120 not well. And also if you're a fan of this movie, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.440 I feel like it's inherently you have to explain it 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.120 because it was not available to watch for so long 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.200 until the last couple of years. 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:59.159 Yeah, it wasn't on streaming. It wasn't even rentable digitally. 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:01.600 Yeah, how did did you watch it six years ago? 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.280 I have to fund some redacted channels of sorts. 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:08.280 Nice. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.680 But then they did the re release in theaters, which 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.400 I remember that day because everybody was posting on their 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.520 Instagram stories and they got to see the Northern Lights, 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:17.440 and I was really bummed about it because I wanted 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:18.960 to see the Northern Lights. All my friends in New 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:20.800 York are like wherever else we're posting it. And then 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:22.520 I remember I saw the Fall after I was just like, 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.600 you know what, you can have your Northern rights. I 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.160 got to see one of the most beautiful things in 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.280 the world to put the screen and it made me 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.040 really happy. So I think that's I'm so bummed about 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.880 not seeing the Northern Lights, but you know, yeah. 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:37.440 But the Northern Lights, they happened more. But you'd wait 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.680 like eighteen years to see this in a theater, the 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.040 Northern Lights. I'll be back, I think, so, yeah. 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.120 I would take this over. I remember the first time 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.720 I watched it, I wrote on a piece of paper 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.040 that I would sacrifice my firstborn to be able to 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.880 see it in theaters because I think it's it's. 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.600 Like a pretty good you don't have to know, well, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:57.040 I mean. 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:58.480 I did see it in theater, so I do have 0:07:58.520 --> 0:07:59.560 to sacrifice. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.360 My first born reactively. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:03.840 Like, whatever I have, I'm gonna have to get rid 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.320 of them, which isn't isn't great? 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:10.800 Wow, that really does change the dynamic of sacrificer. You're 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:12.240 first born, doesn't it. 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.560 That's not ideal. I mean I was just like, they 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.320 have to be born and I have to sacrifice them. 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.440 I originally was like, I don't know if I want kids, 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:19.880 but I think I have to have a child now, 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:21.080 so I could sacrifice them. 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.560 So you have to sacrifice into the fall gods, the 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:24.320 powers that be. 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.240 Jamie, what's your history with this movie? 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.000 My history with this movie? I had not seen it, 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.280 but I have a history of being aware of it, 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.360 which is normally I wouldn't even mention, but it does 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:43.600 feel relevant here because I'm a lee pace head. Because 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.920 I my brother and I watched Pushing Daisies when it 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:52.360 first when it was airing. We loved, loved, loved Pushing Daisies, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.400 and I was like, who is this? Who is this 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.880 handsomest man in the world that I'm looking at, And 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.719 to this day, I think he is. He's got to 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.319 be cracking the top ten, like of handsomest men I've 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.839 ever seen. And yeah, so I was obsessed with ly 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.520 Paced and was like, what else has he been in? 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.440 And at that point the answer was not much. But 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.280 this movie had come out the year before, and I 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.680 remember being like, oh, I want to see that. And 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.959 then because of all these reasons, I now understand it 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.280 just never really happened, because it turns out it like 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.240 couldn't really have happened unless I got unless I pirated it, 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.040 which I am not ethically opposed to, but I just 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.120 kind of forgot that existed. So it just took it 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.280 took a really long time for me to get around 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:41.400 to watching it. And it's so uh, there's so much 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.400 going on, there's so much. It's weird because it's so 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.400 beautiful and it's not it wouldn't normally be my kind 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.720 of movie, but you can just feel I don't know, 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:52.320 it's like hard to explain that, Like you can just 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.200 feel the passion and insincerity. Like it's impossible not to 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:01.240 get on board with this movie. It's so beautiful, especially 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:05.120 learning that there is barely any cgi. It's the kind 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:06.880 of movie where I don't know, there's so many movies 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.720 we've covered on the show that learning about the backstory 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.000 makes you like it way less, and this is the opposite. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.400 Like I watched it the first time and I was like, WHOA, 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.080 that was really impressive. That was really cool. It reminded 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.319 me of a George Miller movie that no one saw 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.560 a couple of years ago, three thousand years of longing. 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:24.880 I saw it, brag. 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.199 I think we were in too. The only wait I'll 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:28.720 eat Did. 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:29.920 You see I watched? 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:31.959 I have a condition where I have to watch every 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:33.439 single movie that shows look in theaters. 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.360 So there, so you were there, you're seated. 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:37.200 I was there. 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:39.400 It was if you haven't seen it, I don't even 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.120 know if I would recommend it, but it was just 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.839 like I was the only person sitting in the theater 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.600 and was like, I don't know, this feels like a 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.120 movie where it's both gigantic and it feels like a 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.400 secret at the same time. So anyways, it reminded me 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.800 a lot of that, and I'm so glad I finally 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.360 saw it. You can see how influential this movie is 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.040 in spite of the fact that probably statistically you haven't 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.960 seen it. Yeah, what was your history with this, Caitlin? 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.320 Kind of similar. I had not seen it before prepping 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:12.000 for this episode, but I knew of it, and I 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.760 don't remember exactly when it came on to my radar, 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.559 but I've known about it for a while. I knew 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.480 what the poster looked like, and I knew that friends 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.000 of mine who had seen it generally loved it and 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.760 thought it was beautiful and like a feat of filmmaking. 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.120 It's got like a five hundred odd letter box. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.000 Yeah, but I didn't really know anything else about it, 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.839 but I was eager to watch it for this episode. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:48.680 It is so visually impressive, especially because I love anything practical, 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:53.960 practical sets practical effects. This movie is that all the 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:58.760 way down. Yeah, we'll talk more about the production of it, 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.400 but I also generally like a kind of like story 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:06.920 within a story. It reminded me kind of of Princess 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.760 Bride in the sense that it's an adult relaying a 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.880 story to a child. It reminded me a bit of 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:19.080 a Little Princess, where that's not quite as big of 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.560 a component of that movie as far as like a 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.920 person relaying a story and then we flash to images 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.440 from that story, But the visuals that you do see 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.160 when we flash to the story and a Little Princess 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.600 feel kind of similar to some of what we see 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.320 in The Fall. So it was just it felt kind 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.480 of like familiar even though I had never seen it before, 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.360 and I was really charmed, Yeah, by the movie. 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.320 How many epic films because this is and I don't 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.040 mean that in the cringe sense. I mean truly this 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:58.760 is epic, not epic, random sauce epic, just to clarify, right, 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.079 but how many epic can say that they were shot 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:07.319 immediately after a Mountain Dew commercial. I just loved learning 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.160 about the background for this movie. Yeah, it's so there's 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:15.960 so much like five d chs being played, just the 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:20.320 fact I want to see the Mountain Dew commercial. Why 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.559 the hell were they filming such an expensive mountain dew commercial. 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.200 We used to you know, we used to make movies 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:27.320 for mountain dew. 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:31.680 I guess because the director, Tarsuan had mostly a history 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:35.320 of directing commercials and I think some music videos. He 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.480 had also directed The Cell, which I've seen but only 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:41.360 once and it was long ago and I don't really 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.880 remember it. And then he would go on to direct 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:48.520 Mirror Mirror, the twenty twelve Snow White adaptation. 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.480 He also want un to direct a movie called Immortals, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.200 but not that one again, another not that one kind 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.319 of movie for Tarsa, Like, yeah, people just keep using 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:03.200 his titles. Although the Fall, you know, kind of asking 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:04.959 for it no offense. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.439 I mean, it is a generic word. 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.000 Anyone's movie could be this. I also think there might 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.640 be a famous book called The Fall. Anyways. Also, I 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.080 just love a mononymous director. You could already if someone's mononymous, 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.440 You're like, Okay, we're dealing with a level of confidence 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:26.359 that I am not going to find relatable, and that's exciting, right. Yeah. 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.960 He is also sometimes referred to as his full name 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.280 Tarsum Singh, but at least in this movie, he's credited 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:38.520 as Tarsum. But yeah, I'm so excited to talk about it. 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.680 Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:57.200 for the recap. And we're back. First, we'll place a 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:04.640 content warning at the top for attempted suicide and suicidality. Also, 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:09.120 this movie is is hard to recap, and there's a 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.600 lot that happens, So I'm gonna be leaving out some details, 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.520 but I'll do my very best. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.680 Yeah, feel free to jump in if they're relevant to 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:19.600 you personally. 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:26.720 Yeah, okay. So we open on dramatic black and white 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:32.040 slow mo images and music of a train stopped on 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.800 the tracks on a bridge, and it seems as though 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:40.360 some people, possibly and also a horse, has fallen off 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.800 the bridge into the water below. We will get more 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:48.760 insight on that later. But is this perhaps the titular fall? 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:56.200 Maybe yes, but also there are there are other falls 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.720 throughout the movie that could be. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.440 There are the fall. It's true, it depends on who 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.480 you are, but I guess I guess I was like, oh, well, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.040 there's a fall, I can relax. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:10.400 Sure. We cut to a hospital in Los Angeles. Ever 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.440 heard of it? It's the nineteen twenties. We meet a 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:19.080 five year old girl named Alexandria played by Katinka Untaru, 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:24.480 who is there because she has broken her arm because 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:29.840 she also had a the fall off screen in the backstory. 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:34.160 And Ali, you referenced this earlier but great child performance. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.800 Maybe one of the best, Like, I don't think there 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.800 is a better child performance. I'm gonna go on a 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.240 record and say that it's. 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:39.800 Really up there. 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.000 It's so good. And I think it's because she's like 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.040 kind of not acting. I mean she is, but like 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:51.160 a lot of her dialogue was improvised or like just 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.400 the director kind of created scenarios where what was happening 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.040 in the scene was like kind of happening in real life. 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.440 So she was just like responding to Lee Pace telling 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.600 her things and then she was just yeah, like kind 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:05.600 of reacting naturally. 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.159 They're like shooting through like holes in the in like 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.800 a sheet so that it doesn't feel too much like 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.520 I just I was so impressed by how he shot 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.560 that because you're because it does feel like how it 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.400 feels to have a conversation with a kid totally, and 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.919 the fact that she learned English to do this movie basically, 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.520 and there's scenes where I read that she had to 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.400 like mostly talk with Lee pace in English, because when 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.280 she was talking to Tarsum, she started talking in English 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.600 that had a slight Indian accent, which you can't hear 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.160 in a couple of scenes too. It's just like, it's 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.720 so fun, it's so cool, so collaborative. 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.040 Yeah, I do have. I watched the two documentaries that 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.760 are about this movie. They're each pretty short. They're both 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.320 like twenty eight minutes long. One is called wonder Lust 0:17:54.359 --> 0:18:00.200 and one is called Nostalgia. And although Tarsum's direction is 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.200 very impressive and the movie he made is very impressive, 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.840 there are moments that he doesn't come off looking great 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.480 in the way that he is treating, particularly Katinka, in 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:12.160 different moments. 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:12.520 Wow. 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:18.720 Sometimes he is compassionate and patient, other times not so much. 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.280 I can talk more about that later. But yeah, especially 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.600 considering she was like six years old when they were 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:27.080 shooting this. 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.800 I literally learned an entire language to do the movie. 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean she's the Lebron James of 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.320 child acting. I feel like you're not patient with her. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.840 Can't condona In any case, we meet Alexandria. She's in 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:47.080 this hospital because she has broken her arm and is 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:51.080 in this big cast she tries to drop a note 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.320 from the window of the hospital down to her pal, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:59.880 nurse Evelyn played by Justine Waddell, but the paper fled 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.600 down into the room of a man named Roy played 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:10.280 by Lee Pace. Alexandria and Roy kind of befriend each 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.560 other after she goes into his room to retrieve the note, 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.520 and he starts to tell her the story of Alexander 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:23.000 the Great, and we cut to the tale that he's telling, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:29.919 which Alexandria periodically interrupts and like questions the various details 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.680 and logic of the story, which is something that will 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.760 happen throughout the rest of the movie, and then Roy 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:37.840 tells her to come back the following day so that 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.960 he can tell her a different story. In the meantime, 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:45.640 we learn that Roy has sustained an injury that has 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:50.159 left him paralyzed from the waist down. I believe the 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.439 details are a little foggy around this at this point, 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.320 but it seems like he is a stuntman and fell 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:01.359 during a stunt that went wrong. It becomes clear that 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:03.440 it's that the images that we saw at the beginning 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.800 of the movie with like the train that was the stunt. 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.560 Like he had tried to jump from the train onto 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.879 a horse below and things went terribly wrong. We pieced 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:19.520 that information together. We also learned that he is very 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:25.040 depressed and it is possibly about a woman, and then 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.840 we'll get more insight on that later as well. Alexandria 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.400 comes back the next day and Roy starts telling her 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:37.480 a story about five men, and we cut to their 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:42.160 story on screen. The men are Oda Benga, a former 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:47.800 enslaved man, Luigi, an expert in explosives, a man from 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:53.840 India whose character's name is the Indian. There's also famous 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:59.600 naturalist Charles Darwin and his monkey friend Wallace. 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.000 Also a real person. Like it's so, where the hea 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:08.639 they're doing there? Like, yeah, the the Avengers of the 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:13.840 history question mark, the avengers of lee Pace's morphine brain. 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.520 Right, and we can talk more about Odebanga yes later. 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.159 I will say of everybody, Charles Darwin maybe is the 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:24.879 most dressed person in the world in this movie. Just 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.520 the things that he has on are unreal. 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:33.000 The big red like fur coat. 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:34.640 It's kind of iconic. 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:38.280 It's I think there's a lot of hyperbole that I'm 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.879 going to speak in, but genuinely, Lee Pace might be 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.280 the best looking a man has ever looked, and Charles 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:45.560 Darwin might be the best dressed a man has ever 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.320 been in this movie and just a lot of great. 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.560 Lee Pace is just he's something else. I just love 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:54.400 to see him. 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.440 Especially as the Masked Bandit. When he takes his mask 0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.920 off and he's wearing this like he has like smoky 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:05.760 eyes and like this like modern haircut, You're just like, oh. 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:06.960 Yep, it's just hot. 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.720 That's the guy. There's this is This is a complete tangent. 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:11.679 But there's a movie that came out with Lee Pace recently, 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:13.919 The Running Man with Glenn Powell, and I hated it 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.400 so much for one reason, which is they cast Lee Pace, 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:19.199 but they made him wear a mask for most of 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:20.919 the movie. It's like, why are you gonna put a 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.080 man this beautiful If I'm not even gonna be able 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:23.640 to look into his. 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.720 Eyes, don't waste his time. There are certain actors that 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:31.359 I should be masked Ryan Reynolds, and there are certain 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:36.000 masks that there are certain actors who you cannot, under 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.560 any circumstances mask Lee Pace. 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.720 What does what does his character look like in the MCU. 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.560 I forget if he's got like a like heavy makeup 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:50.600 on like prosthetics, or if we actually see Lee Pace 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:53.720 Lee Pace's face. Yeah, is he not in the MCU. 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:54.960 You're asking the wrong guy. 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:58.240 Oh yeah he is. I'm googling him right now. He's blue. 0:22:58.480 --> 0:22:59.880 He's blue, right, I thought. 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:01.520 He Why would you make him blue? 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:02.359 I don't know. 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.120 Wow, Avatar, Avatar, your influence is felt. 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:10.960 All this. There are tasteful ways to mask Lee Pace, 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:12.720 and this movie does it tastefully. 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:18.760 It enhances the Wi Pace right because the final character 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:23.800 is the Masked Bandit, who isn't played by Lee Pace 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:27.080 at first, but then it becomes Lee Pace. Well we'll 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:29.680 get there. But the thing with all of these men 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.600 who we've just met is that they hate a man 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:38.040 named Governor Odius, and they have all sworn to kill 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:44.240 him because of various injustices that Odius has committed against them. 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.680 But right now they are stranded on an island until 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:51.439 they escape the island via an elephant that's carrying the 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:54.399 masked Bandit because he can't swim, And then the others 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:58.919 are swimming alongside the elephant and they end up in 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:06.640 some remote desert place where they encounter a man who 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:09.920 kind of like magically comes out of a tree. This 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:13.400 is the mystic who tells them that he's been sent 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:18.080 by his mystic cult to help them defeat Governor Odius. 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.880 So they all head to a fort where Governor Odius 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.760 is holding the Masked Bandit's twin brother, the Blue Bandit, 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:32.920 and they launch an attack against Odius's soldiers, but it's 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:37.679 too late. Odius had already killed the Blue Bandit. And 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:41.760 then the story that Roy is telling is interrupted because 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:47.600 we periodically cut back to Alexandria and Roy. Sometimes it's 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:52.400 because she's interjecting, sometimes it's because someone else interrupts them. 0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:56.080 I love her interjections are so it just is so 0:24:56.400 --> 0:25:03.280 authentically kid like, where she's like, I just yeah, she's incredible. 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.760 She reminds me of my neighbors because they're just letting 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:08.240 her be a kid. Totally. 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:11.200 Yeah. She'll be like, wait a minute, didn't you say this? 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:16.440 Your story is inconsistent, Or she'll make an assumption that 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:20.840 Roy then incorporates into the rest of the story. Stuff 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:26.200 like that. So the story resumes the Masked Bandit, who 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:30.120 is revealed to be played by Lee Pace, although again 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:31.919 I'm pretty sure it was a different actor when we 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.160 initially saw him. I think it's the same actor who 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:41.639 plays Alexandria's father, who we meet via a photograph, but 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:46.520 he had passed away some time ago. But anyway, the 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:50.840 masked bandit swears to avenge his brother, but the men 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:55.840 aren't sure where to find their sworn enemy, Odious, so 0:25:56.280 --> 0:26:00.560 the mystic and his tribe do some sort of ritual 0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:05.879 that gives them directions via a like tattoo map that 0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:09.640 appears on the body of the mystic, and the men 0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:14.760 follow the map and find Odius's carriage crossing the desert, 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:19.000 which is pulled by a bunch of enslaved people. But 0:26:19.520 --> 0:26:25.359 before this story continues, Roy stops and asks Alexandria to 0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:29.199 go to the pharmacy or like the dispensary at the 0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:33.920 hospital and get him some morphine pills to help him 0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:37.120 sleep so that he can more effectively finish the story. 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:42.359 So she sneaks into the dispensary procures a bottle, but 0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:45.520 only gives him three pills and then throws the rest 0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:49.040 away due to a misunderstanding. 0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:50.159 That I think was like it wasn't that, like an 0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:54.159 actual misunderstanding by the childacker and then they changed it. 0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:55.320 That's so sweet. 0:26:57.000 --> 0:27:00.680 Yeah, So Roy spells out morphine, but his e at 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:04.080 the end looks like a three, so she thinks he 0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:06.880 only wanted three pills and it morphin three. 0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:09.040 It makes perfect sense. 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.119 Yeah, anyone could have made this mistake. 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:13.840 This is me at work whenever someone gives me directions that. 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:20.760 You wrote so kind of on her. 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:24.959 Yeah, totally. So she brings him the three pills and 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:28.720 Roy is disappointed because he wanted the whole bottle for 0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:33.240 reasons that will soon become more clear. So back to 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:38.240 the story. The men free the enslaved people and stop 0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:42.720 Odius's carriage, but Odious turns out not to be inside. Instead, 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:46.160 it's a woman who he has captured to be his bride. 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:52.879 The masked bandit claims this woman as his future wife. 0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:55.199 I know, which is pretty rich given that he just 0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:59.080 was like, I'm anti slave Frey, except for this woman 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:00.960 who will may Amy or else. 0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:05.639 Yes. Yeah, And this woman turns out to look a 0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:09.879 lot like Nurse Evelyn, who we've met before. Because the 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:15.200 characters in this story look like Slash are inspired by 0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:19.280 Slash are the same actors who play other characters in 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:21.960 the hospital setting, which I just. 0:28:21.920 --> 0:28:26.240 Love how they approach like how the I don't know, 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:28.560 I've never seen anything like this because it must have 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:32.359 been so hard to do. Is like that we're seeing 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:36.480 a combination of what Roy is talking about, but we're 0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:41.200 also seeing ideas that could have only come from Alexandria, 0:28:41.520 --> 0:28:44.120 and in how she's like populating this world or even 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:48.680 just misunderstandings around Indian means two different things to each 0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:51.000 of them, and that like affects the entire story. It's 0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:53.760 just it's I've never seen anything like it. 0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:57.600 It's really cool. It's very like Wizard of Ozian in 0:28:57.640 --> 0:29:02.000 the sense that all the characters Scarecrow, ten Man, the Lion, 0:29:02.280 --> 0:29:05.200 the Wicked Witch, they're played by actors who also play 0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:08.640 the characters that Dorothy knows in real life, like around 0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:11.280 her farm, in town and stuff like that. And she's 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:15.320 mapping the people that she knows onto the characters in 0:29:15.360 --> 0:29:19.080 her dream, and Alexandria is doing the same thing with 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:23.560 the people she knows and mapping them onto the characters 0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:25.480 in Roy's story. 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.640 Yeah, I was telling Caitlin about this, but this is 0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:32.120 like kind of a literalization of how I relate to 0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:34.920 movies and why I love film. It's also like essentially 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:36.600 why I started film slot, and that a lot of 0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:39.120 film criticism to me is here's why this shot is beautiful, 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:41.440 Here's why this is stunning. But for me, it's always 0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:43.560 been about where you see yourself in the context of 0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:45.680 a movie, and I kind of just wanted to space 0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:47.080 to engage with that. I think this is the first 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:49.600 movie that was like whoa. You can actually literally see 0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:52.719 people insert themselves into stories and how they understand their 0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:56.080 own world through that, and that's I do think it's magical. 0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:57.520 I think this movie has a lot of flaws that 0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:01.280 I'm excited to unpack with you. I do think if 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:03.200 you love something, the best way to love it is 0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:05.800 to see it for its laws and to help it grow. 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:11.360 But in like the understanding of where you see yourself 0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:12.880 with in the context of a story, I don't think 0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:14.680 anything does it better than this movie. And that is 0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:18.120 truly like how I've learned to love and grow with movies. 0:30:19.240 --> 0:30:23.320 It's so cool, it really is. I just whenever a 0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:26.800 movie can pull the magic trick of like showing you, 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:30.760 like literalizing how people think, even if they're like thinking 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:33.440 in a direction that does not make linear sense, it's 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:35.200 just like it's the coolest thing in the world and 0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:37.720 it happens a million times in this movie, to the 0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:40.200 point where you're like, oh, right, if this was just 0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:43.080 like a linear story, that wouldn't have happened, but it 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:44.880 made sense when I don't know, I don't know how 0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:47.520 you do that and shoot across twenty nine countries over 0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:50.320 four years, and at some point you're like, I'm sure 0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:53.040 that they're just mistakes in there. That it's like, well, 0:30:56.680 --> 0:30:58.320 you can't fly leepas everywhere. 0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:01.760 It's awfully. I think the story as the characters evolve 0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:04.360 their thinking, Like as the relationship becomes clearer, the characters 0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:06.440 and the stories become clearer. The people that the child 0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:10.480 inserts Alexandria's she's seen different people that she grows relationships too, 0:31:10.600 --> 0:31:12.560 and things change. It doesn't make sense in the context 0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:14.680 of the story, but yeah, you realize at some point 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:16.760 the story really isn't the point. You're there to hang 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:18.920 out inside both of their brains and see how they. 0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:20.720 Think they need each other. 0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:23.440 Yeah, yeah, that's sweet, it's awesome. 0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:31.040 Yeah. Okay, So then we meet Alexandria's mom and sister 0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:34.760 who come to visit her in the hospital. They are 0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:39.320 all immigrants from Romania, I believe, and we learn that 0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:43.840 Alexandria broke her arm when she fell while picking fruit 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:47.040 in an orange grove. Keep in mind that she is 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:50.400 five years old, and we're like, right, this is taking 0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:53.960 place before the Fair Labor Standards Act of nineteen thirty eight, 0:31:54.480 --> 0:32:00.200 which significantly regulated child labor in the US, but is 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:03.160 taking place in the nineteen twenties. There were not really 0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:10.200 child labor laws at this time. Then we see Alexandria 0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:14.840 observing a woman crying in a car outside the hospital, 0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:19.320 as well as a man who is a famous movie star. 0:32:19.960 --> 0:32:24.280 This is Sinclair, and we pieced together that this woman 0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:30.240 was Roy's former beloved but that she left him for Sinclair, 0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:36.000 and this is why Roy is deeply depressed and perhaps suicidal. 0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:41.880 And then Roy has Alexandria steal more morphine pills from 0:32:42.240 --> 0:32:47.280 his neighbor's cabinet. Like the guy a few hospital beds over, 0:32:48.560 --> 0:32:56.040 great guy, Yeah, he's really awesome. Roy resumes his story. 0:32:56.840 --> 0:33:00.880 The masked bandit takes the woman who he has captured, 0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:05.040 whose name is also Evelyn, takes her with him and 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:08.960 they fall in love as the bandit and the other 0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:14.120 men plan their attack on Odius's palace, but then Evelyn 0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:18.760 learns that they intend to kill her fiance odious. So 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:22.880 the masked bandit has to kill her for some reason, 0:33:23.800 --> 0:33:27.200 so he shoots her, but the locket she's wearing stops 0:33:27.240 --> 0:33:29.640 the bullet and she survives. And it seems like it's 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:34.440 because Alexandria says, no, she can't die, so Roy's like, Okay, 0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:36.480 I guess well, I have to make sure she lives. 0:33:36.640 --> 0:33:39.480 So it's like watching someone write a Marvel movie. 0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:40.800 In real time. 0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:43.280 No, no, no, no, we got to bring it back. 0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:47.000 Yeah, this action figure is import it. I think it's 0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:50.040 so special that the love interest takes the form of 0:33:50.240 --> 0:33:53.120 the nurse because you're seeing it through a kid's eyes. 0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:56.240 And so teach. I teach third grade sometimes on Sundays. 0:33:56.320 --> 0:33:58.480 And the ultimate way I can tell that they like 0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:01.600 me is if some them have older sisters. They'll be like, 0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:04.240 you should marry my sister, and I'll be like, no, 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:07.240 but I appreciate that I've like ingratiated myself with you. 0:34:07.320 --> 0:34:10.319 I think it's for like Alexandria, she sees the nurse, 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:12.680 and she sees leepaes as the two adults that she likes, 0:34:12.680 --> 0:34:15.640 and naturally, in child logic, they need to be together. 0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:18.960 And it's I think it's really special that she sees 0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:22.320 the love interest as the nurse rather than Liepes's ex 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:26.160 who is in slish fantasy of that story. 0:34:26.200 --> 0:34:31.360 It plaisa I love and I love the character the nurse, 0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:34.880 like her relationship with the nurse is so sweet and nurturing, 0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:37.960 and yeah, I really like that because that's like like 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:40.160 the first major detail where you're like, oh, this is 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:42.960 not just his We're not just seeing his version of events. 0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:49.600 So then the Bandit opens the locket that he had 0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:53.040 just shot with a bullet and reads the inscription inside, 0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:56.359 and all of this is taken as a sign that 0:34:56.360 --> 0:35:01.040 the Bandit and Evelyn are destined to be together. So 0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:07.279 they go to get married. But a priest character not 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:11.480 unlike the priest who's at the hospital because this hospital 0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:14.840 is also sort of like a mission because there's like 0:35:14.920 --> 0:35:17.279 nuns there and a priest and the nuns are also 0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:20.080 the nurses or something. I wasn't really sure exactly. 0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:23.640 Yeah, I mean he's got a lot of colonial energy 0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:25.799 about it, right. 0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:31.439 So anyway, the priest who is supposed to marry these 0:35:31.520 --> 0:35:35.760 characters betrays the bandit and sells him out to Odious. 0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:39.600 So the Bandit and his friends are once again banished 0:35:39.719 --> 0:35:44.160 to the desert and like tied up and things seem 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:48.640 pretty hopeless. There's no one left to save them until 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:55.160 a new masked bandit appears a little one played by Alexandria, 0:35:55.880 --> 0:36:00.120 and so she unties the men from their restraints. But 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:05.880 before the story continues, Roy has taken a full bottle 0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:10.840 of the morphine pills, intending to die by suicide, and 0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:14.680 he tells Alexandria to leave when he quote unquote falls asleep. 0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:18.760 Now, Roy, that's the most diabolical thing you can. 0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:24.840 Really fucked up, Roy, not great, not great. 0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:28.200 Not great. He's like, he knows, like he's like, so 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:30.279 I can definitely trust this six year old to do 0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:36.000 what I say, even though that's never once happened. It's truly, yes, 0:36:36.160 --> 0:36:39.480 he's he's kind of growing out there, that is. I 0:36:39.520 --> 0:36:41.399 don't even think Grew would have done that. Grew would 0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:42.360 not have done that to Kevin. 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:43.440 I don't think so. 0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:47.400 No, Wait, that's such a that's just my stomach just 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:49.040 dropped considering that. 0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:49.799 That's really sad. 0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.720 Oh boy, God, no, You've got so much to live. 0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:57.080 For, dude to spile me twelve and when they release 0:36:57.280 --> 0:37:00.560 that version of Old Grew, feeling suicidal grew. 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:07.759 God, greath and Asia plot. Oh my god, something to 0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:10.240 consider so that he consider anything. 0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:12.640 To think about anyway. 0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:15.960 Sorry, you're doing such a good job of telling this, 0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:19.759 like amazing story. It's like this is like impossible to 0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:21.600 summarize by the way. I'm just I'm watching a master 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:24.960 at work right now, Jamie and I are going about. 0:37:27.320 --> 0:37:30.120 No, it's it's the little interjections like this that make 0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:31.360 the recap so special. 0:37:32.719 --> 0:37:33.800 No, you worked very hard at this. 0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:40.080 We'll stop talking, Okay. So Roy loses consciousness after taking 0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:44.760 the pills. Alexandria tries to wake him up. She thinks 0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:51.240 that he has died and is devastated, but twist he's alive. 0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:55.360 He wakes up and discovers that the morphine was actually 0:37:55.480 --> 0:38:00.600 placebo pills that the doctors had been giving his neighbor Guy. 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:03.080 And I wasn't sure if it was implied that he 0:38:03.320 --> 0:38:07.720 was a hypochondriac or that he was maybe an addict 0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:11.120 who is sort of like drug seeking. I'm not sure 0:38:11.280 --> 0:38:12.640 what exactly was going on there. 0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:13.799 I don't know either way. 0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:15.000 They're giving him placbos. 0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:20.399 I sort of resigned myself to disx and placebo pill right. 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:21.880 He just can't die. 0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:25.120 Much like the minions. 0:38:25.640 --> 0:38:28.200 So sometimes Roy is grew, sometimes he is a minion. 0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:32.239 Life is complicated, right. There are relationships where you're the 0:38:32.320 --> 0:38:34.600 minion and relationships where you grew in this life. 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:38.719 And the most beautiful ones are when you're both true. 0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:41.359 And that's the relationship you have with yourself. A kind 0:38:41.400 --> 0:38:44.120 of really makes you think, I am my own minion. 0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:46.840 I did that on a shirt. 0:38:48.440 --> 0:38:54.080 WHOA Okay. So Roy is furious because he was expecting 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:58.680 to die and he didn't, so he lashes out. Alexandria 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:03.480 runs off. He's kind of frightened. That night, she sneaks 0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:07.600 back into the dispensary to try to retrieve more pills 0:39:07.840 --> 0:39:11.360 for Roy, thinking that he needs them to sleep, but 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:17.160 she slips and falls another the fall she the falls yes, 0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:22.319 and as she's she has fallen and injured herself. It 0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:25.759 seems like she sustains a head injury. We see flashes 0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:29.439 from the story that Roy has been telling, We see 0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:34.520 flashes from Alexandria's backstory, and then this like surreal stop 0:39:34.560 --> 0:39:35.840 animation sequence. 0:39:35.920 --> 0:39:39.400 Oh, it's so good, it's so good, so good. 0:39:39.239 --> 0:39:42.839 And then eventually Alexandria wakes up and Roy is there 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:45.560 and She begs him to tell her the rest of 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:50.840 the story, but he is despondent and he also feels 0:39:50.880 --> 0:39:53.520 responsible for Alexandria's the fall. 0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:55.879 Well, I can tell you why it feels that way, 0:39:57.080 --> 0:39:58.480 because fall as he is. 0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:06.400 But he tearfully resumes the story, where the Masked Bandit 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:11.359 and friends spot Evelyn with Odius, who I think this 0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:13.600 is the first time we are seeing Odius on screen 0:40:13.760 --> 0:40:18.440 and he is the same guy as Sinclair, that famous 0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:22.920 movie star. So they plan their attack on Odius, but 0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:27.480 things go awry and one by one the members of 0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:34.160 the group die, starting with Wallace the Monkey, then Darwin Luigi, 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:39.000 Ode Benga, the Mystic, and the Indian. They're either killed 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:44.439 by Odius's army or they sacrifice themselves until the only 0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:49.320 ones left are the Masked Bandit and the Little Masked 0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:51.000 Bandit played by Alexandria. 0:40:51.160 --> 0:40:52.920 I don't know what this says about me, but I 0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:55.000 think I'm not much of a movie crier. But like, 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:57.080 the only time I teared up watching this movie, which 0:40:57.080 --> 0:40:58.880 is really sposhible me, is when the monkey dies. 0:41:00.280 --> 0:41:02.080 I mean that is very moving. 0:41:02.400 --> 0:41:03.720 It was like a hard watch. 0:41:04.120 --> 0:41:07.640 Yeah, hard agree that monkey was acting his ass off. 0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:11.000 Yeah, could not replace him with a minion either. 0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:13.799 No, No, minyas can't emote like that. 0:41:15.520 --> 0:41:18.080 Well I think they can, but they can. 0:41:18.080 --> 0:41:18.800 They can't. 0:41:18.840 --> 0:41:20.359 It depends which minion you're using. 0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:23.800 There's a Spectrum James, maybe Crime, James. 0:41:23.600 --> 0:41:25.080 Mary James. 0:41:25.120 --> 0:41:26.080 AD's the one who got me. 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:29.360 Oh my god, and you gotta love Ed. It's so 0:41:29.600 --> 0:41:33.040 wild that they created three new, amazing minions. I didn't 0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:33.879 think they could do it. 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:36.960 Oh, I forgot what So this is the Minions and 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:41.799 Monsters Minions. Yes, yes, I loved Dick. 0:41:43.239 --> 0:41:49.960 Dick, Dick. That's and you might be alone there there, Dick, 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:50.600 I don't remember. 0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:51.160 I love Dick. 0:41:51.280 --> 0:41:55.320 Is my favorite moment Indias and Monsters was like when 0:41:55.600 --> 0:42:00.080 the Minions are passing the Christoph Waltz producer character and 0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:02.960 he and Dick have a moment where he goes Dick 0:42:03.560 --> 0:42:07.320 Max and it made me laugh so much I laughed 0:42:07.360 --> 0:42:08.360 for the rest of the movie. 0:42:09.040 --> 0:42:09.479 It was great. 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:10.600 That should have happened in the fall. 0:42:10.880 --> 0:42:13.200 It should have kind of happens in the fall. There's 0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:15.320 like a lot of producers and moments. 0:42:16.120 --> 0:42:17.360 It's sort of right. 0:42:17.440 --> 0:42:19.960 It's true. There's no Dick the minion. I guess I 0:42:20.040 --> 0:42:21.800 been again. Like, is Roy Dick the Minion? 0:42:21.920 --> 0:42:24.640 Sometimes Alexander Dickmanion most of the time. 0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:30.160 It's also true the neighbor maybe is Dick the Minion? 0:42:30.400 --> 0:42:30.719 He was? 0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:33.919 He actually behaves like Dick the Minion, Yes he does. 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:38.600 Wow, what a powerful character. We see him everywhere. 0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:41.440 I think we just both have broken friends. 0:42:41.480 --> 0:42:48.000 And that's okay, okay. So, so most of the characters 0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:53.880 have died. And then Alexandria, both in the story that 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:57.560 Roy is telling and in real life in the hospital, 0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:03.680 she is sobbing and asking, like, why are you killing everyone? 0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:07.399 Why is this how the story is going? And it's 0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:14.040 because Roy is so depressed. And then Odious appears and 0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:18.960 attacks the bandit, who falls in the pool and he's drowning. 0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:22.680 He's completely given up again, kind of the way that 0:43:22.800 --> 0:43:26.640 Roy has. He doesn't even try to fight back. And 0:43:26.840 --> 0:43:30.759 Alexandria again like begs Roy to let the bandit live. 0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:35.360 She's also kind of like projecting her father onto the bandit, 0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:40.719 and like everyone is crying, and so Roy decides to 0:43:40.800 --> 0:43:44.560 let the bandit live in the story, and the character 0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:48.880 starts fighting back and he punches Odius, who accidentally impales 0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:52.879 himself on a sword and dies. Though the line where 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:56.760 he says, I'm not feeling very well, it's so funny 0:43:57.320 --> 0:44:00.799 because he's got a sword through his chest. We've been there, 0:44:02.680 --> 0:44:07.640 tis but to scratch. And then the story ends triumphantly 0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:12.960 for the Bandit and the Little Bandit. We cut back 0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:19.200 to Alexandria, Roy, and other patients in the hospital watching 0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:24.040 a film with some characters that kind of resemble characters 0:44:24.080 --> 0:44:27.239 from Roy's story, and I think it's implied that the 0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:30.040 film that they're watching is the one that Roy was 0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:34.759 working on when he was injured, and we see his 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:37.799 stunt kind of it. 0:44:37.800 --> 0:44:44.120 Got basically cut for time. Yeah, it seems like tough business. 0:44:44.160 --> 0:44:49.640 And then we cut to Alexandria and her family working 0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:54.759 in the Orange Grove after Alexandria has fully recovered, and 0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:58.919 her voiceover says that she misses Roy, that he has 0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:02.600 gone back to work as a stuntman, and that she 0:45:02.719 --> 0:45:05.840 has seen him in a film and that she like 0:45:05.920 --> 0:45:08.000 kind of watched it over and over again to make 0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:11.440 sure that it was him. And then the movie that 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:17.480 we are watching ends with a montage of impressive stunts 0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:21.280 from silent films, including a lot of people falling. 0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:26.520 The end, I mean makes you think makes you think, 0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:29.080 kind of reminded me of the end of Babylon. I'm like, 0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:32.759 this movie is so I punched just a little bit, 0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:37.040 and also the beginning of Many and Monsters. Okay, it's right, 0:45:37.760 --> 0:45:38.399 So that's the movie. 0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:51.040 Let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.480 We're back, Ollie. Where would you like to start? 0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:57.480 Yeah, I mean, I think this is the first time 0:45:57.480 --> 0:46:03.000 I've actually watched this through a Bechdel CASTI feminist lens. 0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:05.560 I think every time I was kind of swept in 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:07.960 by the magic of cinema. This is like maybe round 0:46:08.320 --> 0:46:10.799 four or five for me watching it, so I could 0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:13.759 be a little bit more critical, and I am very 0:46:13.800 --> 0:46:16.279 excited to hear your thoughts because I think this movie 0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:20.560 is rather lacking in some of the feminist readings. There 0:46:20.640 --> 0:46:24.200 is one lens that I think I have crafted. I'm 0:46:24.239 --> 0:46:26.399 not sure if it's accurate. It's me inserting something trying 0:46:26.440 --> 0:46:28.280 to make an excuse for something that I love dearly. 0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:31.719 But I do think that Roy's original rendition of the 0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:34.879 story is kind of an insult fantasy where he's this 0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:38.799 guy who has been rejected and now he's just kind 0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:42.320 of lashing out. He is using vengeance as this shield 0:46:42.480 --> 0:46:47.279 and doesn't know how to accept being rejected. He is 0:46:47.360 --> 0:46:51.439 kind of a loser, unfortunately. But I think with Alexandria, 0:46:51.560 --> 0:46:55.560 she has inserted herself into this male dominated story and 0:46:55.680 --> 0:47:01.799 with the inclusion of a child slash female voice, there's 0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:05.800 like a break from this toxic masculinity that dominates stories, 0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:09.800 and it is more of like an invitation to add 0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:12.520 more diverse voices into the stories we tell. So I 0:47:12.560 --> 0:47:15.680 think that's my one way of like, here's how I 0:47:15.680 --> 0:47:18.840 can make this a little bit more tasteful too myself. 0:47:19.040 --> 0:47:23.600 I like it. Yeah, I totally agree with you, especially 0:47:23.640 --> 0:47:28.000 with the Alexandria stuff, where I the performance is so great. 0:47:28.040 --> 0:47:30.680 And I also was, as I was like looking into 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:33.680 the extensive backstory for this movie, that this movie was 0:47:33.719 --> 0:47:38.719 not written for a child of a specific gender, and 0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:41.160 I feel like you can really feel that in the story, 0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:43.359 and it made me actually think and challenge a little 0:47:43.400 --> 0:47:49.360 more how like young Girls are written specifically because children 0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:54.400 are like genderless, like genders of contract. Children are genderless weirdos. 0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:57.640 They just like they're flop it around. It's fun. Being 0:47:57.680 --> 0:48:01.040 a kid is fun, And like I like that because 0:48:01.840 --> 0:48:05.040 Katinka was encouraged to and I'm very curious to hear 0:48:05.080 --> 0:48:09.080 more about this documentary, Caitlin. But it seems that Katinka 0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:11.799 was encouraged to just act like a kid and not 0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:16.440 be acting out this like coming of age young girl 0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:19.880 plot that I love, but like you can feel how 0:48:20.120 --> 0:48:23.080 free it is, and that because it's just a kid 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:25.200 being a kid, it is kind of like inherently like 0:48:25.400 --> 0:48:30.719 a genderless performance because that's how kids are. And I 0:48:30.760 --> 0:48:35.440 just I loved that she seemed free to behave and 0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:37.920 think like a kid in the way that the story 0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:42.160 rolls out because she's still she's still so young that 0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:44.359 I think the ways in which gender will shape her 0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:46.200 life are maybe not quite. 0:48:46.239 --> 0:48:52.120 Clear to her yet. Yeah, which is cool. I'm thinking 0:48:52.160 --> 0:48:57.440 of the moment where the Evelyn character enters the story 0:48:58.000 --> 0:49:02.000 as as the woman who who the masked bandit has 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:06.360 kidnapped and sort of like made into his bride to be, 0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:12.040 but they're also kind of like falling in love whatever, 0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:16.560 and Alexandria is like, make them kiss, make them kiss, 0:49:17.280 --> 0:49:20.520 And I was thinking about how a lot of like 0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:27.480 gender socialization encourages little girls to latch onto romance, and 0:49:27.719 --> 0:49:30.400 it also conditions little boys to think that that's gross 0:49:30.440 --> 0:49:33.839 because going back to, for example, The Princess Bride, there 0:49:33.840 --> 0:49:36.400 are parts in that story when you know the grandfather 0:49:36.480 --> 0:49:40.719 who's relaying the story of the Princess Bride to the 0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:44.880 little Fred Savage character, and he's like, ooh, gross, they're kissing. 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:47.839 Can't you skip over the kissing parts? Because he has 0:49:47.840 --> 0:49:50.960 been socialized to find that stuff yucky and that's and 0:49:51.120 --> 0:49:53.200 romance is for girls, that kind of thing. So I 0:49:53.239 --> 0:49:57.080 was thinking about that. But Alexandria also says that she 0:49:57.200 --> 0:50:01.319 has never seen a movie before, so I'm just like, 0:50:01.360 --> 0:50:05.680 it's not like she was like influenced by at least films, 0:50:05.920 --> 0:50:10.160 maybe by books or other stories. She might have received 0:50:10.200 --> 0:50:12.840 some sort of conditioning, but it could also just be 0:50:12.920 --> 0:50:16.960 that she wants to see these two characters kiss and 0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:19.880 that's just coming from her without any kind of like 0:50:20.080 --> 0:50:24.080 external influence. I don't know exactly what to make of that, 0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:25.800 but but I found that interesting. 0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:29.200 I liked it. It just felt more like and I'm like, 0:50:29.320 --> 0:50:33.040 who knows how scripted or unscripted that was, but like 0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:36.480 it just feels like a thing that a curious kid says, 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:39.960 right because they've heard of kissing and it looks fun 0:50:40.640 --> 0:50:44.479 like mm, hmm, yeah, I don't know. I totally agree 0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:47.480 because I don't know, it's so hard to get a 0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:50.319 performance like this. It's so singular, so it's not like 0:50:50.400 --> 0:50:55.640 this could just be how kids perform. Not everyone is 0:50:55.760 --> 0:50:56.920 Katinka and Taro. 0:50:57.400 --> 0:50:58.040 But is. 0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:01.799 So it's such a cool experiment kind of, but also 0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:04.479 it sounds could we talk about that really quick, because 0:51:04.560 --> 0:51:06.399 I just it's like, in the back of my head, 0:51:06.440 --> 0:51:09.359 I'm very curious about how she was treated, because we've 0:51:09.360 --> 0:51:12.640 talked a lot on the show about how just in general, like, 0:51:13.400 --> 0:51:17.520 I have very mixed feelings on I mean, there's just 0:51:17.560 --> 0:51:22.839 still not enough protections in place for kid actors and 0:51:23.320 --> 0:51:27.520 the whole like whatever, the whole classic mentalities don't work 0:51:27.520 --> 0:51:29.359 with kids or animals. When I feel like the question 0:51:29.400 --> 0:51:33.760 should be like, well, maybe that's because there's not proper 0:51:33.800 --> 0:51:36.399 protections in place for kids and animals and that's why 0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:40.480 it tends to not go well anyways. 0:51:41.160 --> 0:51:46.239 Yeah, So the documentaries that I watched, wonder Lust and Nostalgia, 0:51:46.680 --> 0:51:50.520 they're pretty similar. They both are just behind the scenes footage, 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:52.799 so there's no like interviews or anything. There's no like 0:51:53.560 --> 0:51:57.239 talking heads describing oh this was my vision for this 0:51:57.360 --> 0:52:00.400 scene or anything like that. It's just a kind of 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:06.520 a series of behind the scenes shots that are strung together. 0:52:07.080 --> 0:52:09.799 What we gather from it is that it seems like 0:52:09.840 --> 0:52:13.799 this movie was difficult to shoot because there are all 0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:17.960 these tough locations, there's harsh weather, there's a lot of 0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:22.120 practical effects and stunts and things like that, so we 0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:24.480 see bits of that. There's a part with an elephant 0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:28.040 that's like on a boat and like being shipped to 0:52:28.080 --> 0:52:30.520 this island, and it just it made me feel so 0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:33.000 bad for the elephant. I don't know how many protections 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:36.320 were put in place in the production for this elephant, 0:52:36.400 --> 0:52:39.759 but I was just like, oh man, this poor elephant 0:52:39.920 --> 0:52:42.319 is like how I was feeling as I was watching it. 0:52:43.239 --> 0:52:46.960 In addition to that, you get insight into how Tarsum 0:52:47.160 --> 0:52:51.760 is as a director, for like the cast in general, 0:52:51.840 --> 0:52:57.239 but also particularly how he directed young Katinka. So as 0:52:57.280 --> 0:53:03.600 I said before, sometimes he seems patient and calm and 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:08.359 pleasant to work with toward her, and then other times 0:53:08.760 --> 0:53:14.520 he is just cruel and berating her. There's a moment 0:53:14.560 --> 0:53:20.120 where she's crying and it seems it's because something isn't 0:53:20.160 --> 0:53:24.560 going quite right on the set or I don't know 0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:28.320 exactly the context, but she's crying, not her character is crying, 0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:30.760 but like it's clear that the actor is crying because 0:53:31.520 --> 0:53:35.040 she's frustrated or her feelings have been hurt or something 0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:38.520 like that. And Harson says something like, don't do that 0:53:38.560 --> 0:53:41.040 crap here, do it over there in front of the camera. 0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:45.640 Stuff like that. He's yelling. There's another scene where he 0:53:45.719 --> 0:53:50.680 has her do nineteen takes of something, stuff like that. 0:53:50.920 --> 0:53:55.840 So again, he doesn't come off great in these documentaries. 0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:59.360 And I wonder how, I mean, I genuinely don't know 0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:02.880 the answer to this. It's like how child I mean, 0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:06.080 it's weird that this story touches on child labor and 0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:09.880 seems to come down antie and then this is how 0:54:10.239 --> 0:54:13.080 the child star of the movie is treated. Yeah, but 0:54:13.320 --> 0:54:16.800 how those laws differ from country to country, I actually 0:54:16.800 --> 0:54:21.319 don't know. But in the US they're definitely still a lot. 0:54:21.360 --> 0:54:25.320 I mean, so much of child labor laws and entertainment 0:54:25.880 --> 0:54:28.719 have and this is exclusive, but like it has a 0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:31.320 lot to do with like what the parents are willing 0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:34.440 to tolerate on behalf of the child, not necessarily what 0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:38.120 the child themselves wants or needs, which is how you 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:40.399 get into all these horrific stage parent things. That's why, 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:43.960 like cougan laws exist to protect their money, but I 0:54:44.000 --> 0:54:47.200 don't know that it necessarily protects them. And then you 0:54:47.239 --> 0:54:50.839 heard stories about child actors that had parents that were 0:54:50.920 --> 0:54:53.000 doing their best and were very careful and the child 0:54:53.120 --> 0:54:57.799 is still harmed or abused behind the scenes, and that's 0:54:59.480 --> 0:55:02.920 I I don't know what the solution to that is. 0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:05.680 Like it's because it's like you can be a great 0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:08.760 director and that doesn't mean that you should be directing children, 0:55:08.840 --> 0:55:10.719 and like how do you make that distinction? 0:55:10.920 --> 0:55:16.160 And I don't know, right it's Yeah, it was disheartening 0:55:16.200 --> 0:55:22.360 to see footage of Tarsan's behavior toward Katinka in those 0:55:22.400 --> 0:55:26.840 two documentaries. The other notable thing about what I learned 0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:33.320 from Wanderlust and Nostalgia was that Tarsum had lee Pace 0:55:34.280 --> 0:55:38.400 pretend to not be able to walk during the whole shoot, 0:55:38.719 --> 0:55:42.200 to the point where Katinka and most of the crew 0:55:43.200 --> 0:55:48.160 thought he was actually disabled. And Tarsan did this to 0:55:49.160 --> 0:55:54.160 I guess, like help with the authenticity, particularly for Katinka's 0:55:54.600 --> 0:55:59.960 reactions to things and her behavior where she was like 0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:03.759 really careful around lee Pace's legs, if she was like 0:56:03.840 --> 0:56:06.880 sitting in bed with him or something like that, and 0:56:06.920 --> 0:56:08.920 then like I think maybe on the last day of 0:56:08.920 --> 0:56:13.840 shooting they reveal to her that he actually can walk. 0:56:14.040 --> 0:56:17.640 So there's a discussion to be had around ableism. 0:56:17.160 --> 0:56:22.080 Here, not only in the psychological torture yes of a child, right, 0:56:22.120 --> 0:56:24.240 because it's like it's so many layers. 0:56:24.280 --> 0:56:30.000 It's an able bodied actor playing a disabled character. It 0:56:30.280 --> 0:56:34.239 is an able bodied actor pretending to be disabled, not 0:56:34.280 --> 0:56:38.400 only for the sake of the story that unfolds on screen, 0:56:38.440 --> 0:56:43.200 but also for the like behind the scenes. And then 0:56:43.400 --> 0:56:47.319 there's the like lying to a child in order to 0:56:48.320 --> 0:56:52.759 elicit a more authentic reaction and stuff like that. 0:56:52.960 --> 0:56:55.320 So it's also the gravity of what you're kind of 0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:57.000 lying to a child about, where this is a child 0:56:57.080 --> 0:57:00.000 who is learning English, is developing a really close relationship 0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:03.560 with this actor, who I think on set is very 0:57:03.600 --> 0:57:05.960 caring and you come to learn to love him in 0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:09.360 your own way, and you just like have this understanding 0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:12.000 that the person who care about is hurt. It is 0:57:12.600 --> 0:57:14.440 very devastating to be a kid and to have to 0:57:14.440 --> 0:57:16.280 think about it in my context for sure. 0:57:16.400 --> 0:57:19.600 Yeah, and I don't I mean Lee Pece very much 0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:22.240 obviously an adult during this movie, but that I feel 0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:27.160 like does sort of lay firmly with Tarsum, especially because 0:57:28.280 --> 0:57:30.200 I don't know, like, yeah, this was like very early 0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:34.520 into Leepece's career, like you're whatever. I and also with 0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:38.400 her parents, like your parents have to be involved in 0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:40.800 this high level of deception if you're that young, like 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:43.960 they have to. It's not like you know, because it's 0:57:43.960 --> 0:57:47.080 a non starter if her parents are like, no, that 0:57:47.080 --> 0:57:51.280 that's fucked up, like on all of these different levels 0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:55.360 we're gonna tell her like then there's no point in 0:57:55.400 --> 0:57:57.400 doing it. So it's like there there's sort of a 0:57:58.280 --> 0:58:03.200 multiple levels of people that are okay with a deceitful 0:58:03.720 --> 0:58:08.640 and ablest setup that is required for this to happen. 0:58:08.880 --> 0:58:11.480 And again I think it's it's it's ablest in the 0:58:11.480 --> 0:58:15.560 ways that like they're treating I mean, the story treats uh, 0:58:16.600 --> 0:58:18.400 I don't know, I mean not that the story is 0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:23.720 inherently the casting is somewhat ablest, right, but like the 0:58:23.760 --> 0:58:27.240 story itself, Like I understand that he wanted an able 0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:31.439 bodied actor to be able to play the other character, right, 0:58:31.800 --> 0:58:34.480 but surely you know, we have we have a lot 0:58:34.480 --> 0:58:37.160 of great writers on this movie. There's an interesting way 0:58:37.240 --> 0:58:39.040 to subvert that in a way that doesn't make it 0:58:39.120 --> 0:58:41.880 necessary for this to happen in the first place. 0:58:43.320 --> 0:58:46.200 But writers like Dan Gilroy. 0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:49.560 Man, some of our some of our strongest NEPO soldiers 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:54.919 are the Gilroys. Like, they're so cool Dan Gilroy, He's 0:58:55.080 --> 0:58:59.480 the Nightcrawler Gilroy, Right, Yes, I believe, so good Gilroy, 0:58:59.680 --> 0:59:00.600 strong Gilroy. 0:59:00.680 --> 0:59:03.560 And then Tony Gilroy's mister and or Yeah. 0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:05.520 And then there's John Gilroy who I think edits like 0:59:05.600 --> 0:59:11.920 both of their movies. Oh yeah, good for him Gilroy Nation. Yeah. 0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:16.640 I guess getting back to the characters, like gave it 0:59:16.680 --> 0:59:20.120 to the character. I think that Alexandria is a really 0:59:20.800 --> 0:59:24.400 interesting and layered character. And now talking about how the 0:59:24.440 --> 0:59:29.000 actress was treated on set, it is interacting directly with 0:59:29.080 --> 0:59:31.800 Alexandria's story in a way that probably was not intentional. 0:59:31.880 --> 0:59:36.840 Where she is she was injured working. That is like 0:59:36.880 --> 0:59:38.720 why she's in this hospital in the first place. She 0:59:38.840 --> 0:59:41.600 was injured doing a job that she shouldn't have had 0:59:41.640 --> 0:59:44.439 to have been doing, which child labor is like all 0:59:44.520 --> 0:59:49.440 in conversation with obviously like class and the ability to survive. 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:51.720 It's not just like her parents, I mean, And I 0:59:51.800 --> 0:59:53.280 like that the movie goes out of its way to 0:59:53.320 --> 0:59:55.720 introduce us to her mom. We don't get to know 0:59:55.760 --> 0:59:58.680 her mom especially well, but we do get to I 0:59:58.680 --> 1:00:02.440 don't know. I think that there is a tendency, at 1:00:02.520 --> 1:00:05.480 least in the US, to reduce very large issues to 1:00:05.600 --> 1:00:10.040 like an individual family or person and have the thinking 1:00:10.160 --> 1:00:12.920 be like, oh, this child was sent to work, How 1:00:12.960 --> 1:00:15.680 cruel of their parents, when it's like, well, that was 1:00:15.720 --> 1:00:18.480 the only situation that would have allowed this family to 1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:22.040 even remotely thrive. That was like how the system was built. 1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:23.960 And I like that. You do get a moment with 1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:26.000 her and her mom, and then she's still being a 1:00:26.000 --> 1:00:29.240 bit of a minion in that scene because she has 1:00:29.240 --> 1:00:31.200 all the power in that scene. She's the translator and 1:00:31.200 --> 1:00:33.160 she's like hmm, like she I don't know. 1:00:33.840 --> 1:00:36.240 Did you see the Bulgarian movie that this is based on. 1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:39.360 It's called Yoho Ho I have not known. It's like 1:00:39.360 --> 1:00:41.840 the same kind of promise, but instead of a little girl, 1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:45.040 it's a little boy, and the story is about like pirates, 1:00:45.080 --> 1:00:47.760 and it's a little bit more simplistic, but it's kind 1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:51.120 of the same. Broken arm in the hospital befriends a 1:00:51.280 --> 1:00:54.360 paraplegic and then they make up a story and the 1:00:54.360 --> 1:00:58.560 paraplegic is also suicidal, but they kind of resist the 1:00:58.640 --> 1:00:59.960 villain in the room at the end. 1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:06.280 Interesting. Okay, Yeah, I knew it was based on because 1:01:06.360 --> 1:01:09.600 I know that that, like lore wise with the production 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:13.000 of this movie. Was that a movie that Tarsum saw 1:01:13.080 --> 1:01:16.840 when he was young and like wanted to create his 1:01:17.080 --> 1:01:19.600 version of right, it seems like it. 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:24.360 Yeah, So Tarsan went to film school in oh I 1:01:24.400 --> 1:01:27.360 forget the name of the school, but it's in Pasadena. 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:31.400 His classmates included Michael Bay and Zack Snyder. 1:01:32.720 --> 1:01:38.120 Okay, but a lot of really strong, weird guy energy. 1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:41.480 Of course, of course, he wasn't writing very strong women characters. 1:01:41.480 --> 1:01:43.960 Look at his peersmates. 1:01:44.040 --> 1:01:46.560 I'm on his his Wikipedia page right now, and the 1:01:46.640 --> 1:01:49.760 last sentence is Singh also acted in a student film 1:01:49.800 --> 1:01:52.640 of Bay and Snyder, including Gannazi and one of the. 1:01:52.600 --> 1:01:56.160 Latter's works, Wow, and You're like and the less set 1:01:56.200 --> 1:02:00.959 about whatever the hell that is? It's like cool, Sure, 1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:01.520 why the hell not? 1:02:01.840 --> 1:02:07.440 Like, but it seems like Tarsum saw the Bulgarian film 1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:10.360 when he was in film school, which I'm guessing would 1:02:10.360 --> 1:02:14.920 have been like late eighties, early nineties, and from that 1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:18.480 point on he was like I'm making I'm adapting this, 1:02:18.520 --> 1:02:21.600 I'm making my own version of this. He and I'm 1:02:21.600 --> 1:02:24.840 pulling a lot of this information from an Indie wire 1:02:25.320 --> 1:02:28.840 oral history of the Fall that was published in twenty 1:02:28.880 --> 1:02:29.400 twenty four. 1:02:29.640 --> 1:02:33.480 And I know this is so pedantic, but I read 1:02:33.520 --> 1:02:35.120 that same article and I was like, this isn't a 1:02:35.200 --> 1:02:37.800 damn oral history. This is an article with an interview 1:02:37.800 --> 1:02:41.320 in it. Yeah, right, nice, try Layla Jordan. 1:02:42.600 --> 1:02:43.840 Yeah, get her ass. 1:02:44.360 --> 1:02:47.320 But it's funny you mentioned that article because Lila and 1:02:47.360 --> 1:02:48.360 I went to college together. 1:02:48.680 --> 1:02:53.040 Oh but oh, okay, okay, Charsa Michael bay vibes. 1:02:53.360 --> 1:02:54.400 She's great, She's cool. 1:02:54.640 --> 1:02:57.720 Okay, I'm sure. I'm sure she did. She didn't write 1:02:57.720 --> 1:02:59.800 the headline either. But I was like, I was. I 1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:02.240 love oral histories, and I was like, but this is 1:03:02.880 --> 1:03:06.160 it's a good article, but an article. Nonetheless, pray, let 1:03:06.160 --> 1:03:06.480 me tell you. 1:03:06.520 --> 1:03:08.480 Film Slop would not be publishing titles like that. 1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:12.880 No, and that's why every one should read film Slop. 1:03:13.040 --> 1:03:13.480 You hear that? 1:03:14.000 --> 1:03:17.680 Yeah, multiple plugs listeners for the record, I was being 1:03:17.760 --> 1:03:21.840 unfair there. Writers rarely get to pick their headlines. But whatever. 1:03:21.960 --> 1:03:25.680 In any case, Tarsan saw the film early on wanted 1:03:25.720 --> 1:03:29.480 to make his own version of it, and basically throughout 1:03:29.520 --> 1:03:32.400 the nineties was like figuring out ways to do this. 1:03:32.720 --> 1:03:35.360 It seems like when he got his first big paycheck 1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:39.400 after directing a big commercial, he bought the rights to 1:03:40.080 --> 1:03:43.080 the Bulgarian film. From that point on he was working 1:03:43.120 --> 1:03:48.920 with writers, production designers, things like that to develop the movie, 1:03:49.040 --> 1:03:54.200 and then it went into production finally. I don't know 1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:56.040 exactly when, but I do know that it took four 1:03:56.120 --> 1:04:02.080 years to film. Tarsan funded the whole thing himself. 1:04:01.760 --> 1:04:04.520 Which I guess is like part of how he did that, 1:04:04.920 --> 1:04:08.960 which is pretty clever, is like would take gigs like 1:04:09.240 --> 1:04:14.800 Mountain Dew commercials be in a great location already keep 1:04:14.840 --> 1:04:17.400 the same crew, like, pay to retain the same crew 1:04:17.480 --> 1:04:20.120 from the commercial, so he didn't need to actually assemble 1:04:20.560 --> 1:04:23.640 his own international crews in every single country and then 1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:26.680 just fly the actress out. Yeah, kind of something only 1:04:26.760 --> 1:04:29.160 he could have done at this exact moment, But I 1:04:29.200 --> 1:04:34.040 was like, pretty pretty cool. Five D Chessi's playing scheduling 1:04:34.280 --> 1:04:35.120 was for sure. 1:04:35.680 --> 1:04:39.680 I also read that he paid the entire cast and 1:04:39.760 --> 1:04:43.800 crew the same rate, no matter what their role was, 1:04:43.880 --> 1:04:48.080 which meant that some people got paid a greater rate 1:04:48.120 --> 1:04:51.280 than they might have otherwise on a different production. It 1:04:51.320 --> 1:04:54.120 seems that other people would have taken a pay cut. 1:04:54.160 --> 1:04:56.680 But from what I read, anyone who took a pay 1:04:56.720 --> 1:04:59.400 cut was just like, I'll gladly do it because I 1:04:59.400 --> 1:05:01.960 believe so in my in this project. 1:05:02.600 --> 1:05:07.080 That's called I've That's how I made my movie Smiley Face. 1:05:07.920 --> 1:05:12.600 It's called a Most Favored Nations setup that is designed 1:05:12.680 --> 1:05:15.240 to it's I don't know if this is how Tarsome 1:05:15.320 --> 1:05:17.880 did it, but I think that I only learned about 1:05:17.880 --> 1:05:20.400 this to do this movie. But that everyone has paid 1:05:20.440 --> 1:05:24.840 the same day rate and everyone gets back points. So 1:05:24.920 --> 1:05:27.760 for people who are taking a pay cut, it's and 1:05:27.880 --> 1:05:30.680 on my movie is kind of who wasn't taking a 1:05:30.680 --> 1:05:34.880 pay cut? That there is like potential for more revenue 1:05:34.920 --> 1:05:37.400 on the on the back end, I guess not that 1:05:37.440 --> 1:05:39.919 anyone in the Fall would have ever gotten the opportunity 1:05:40.040 --> 1:05:42.040 to get back in points because this movie was not 1:05:42.040 --> 1:05:43.280 financially successful, but. 1:05:43.480 --> 1:05:46.880 Sure it is coming back kind of. I think they've 1:05:46.920 --> 1:05:48.520 had a little bit of a run. So I wonder 1:05:48.560 --> 1:05:53.160 if the new movie stuff has come to the actor terms. 1:05:52.960 --> 1:05:55.640 How wild would that be if you started getting residuals 1:05:55.680 --> 1:05:59.920 like twenty plus years after the movie first, after you 1:06:00.160 --> 1:06:02.680 shaw something. I mean, that's how residual should work. It's 1:06:02.800 --> 1:06:05.160 just wild to think that for a movie that you 1:06:05.360 --> 1:06:07.280 very much had given up on ever seeing a cent 1:06:07.360 --> 1:06:09.280 from right. 1:06:10.080 --> 1:06:13.360 Best wishes to the cast and crew. Yeah, for that, 1:06:14.360 --> 1:06:17.840 I had a point to all this context I was providing, 1:06:17.960 --> 1:06:19.320 But now I forget what it was. 1:06:19.800 --> 1:06:23.040 We were talking about the international. I think we started 1:06:23.040 --> 1:06:26.760 in the international, right, Yeah, I. 1:06:26.760 --> 1:06:31.360 Guess just that Tarsan would take commercial directing jobs only 1:06:31.440 --> 1:06:35.240 in countries that he wanted to use locations for in 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:38.440 his movie. Oh right, I was just saying, how basically 1:06:38.960 --> 1:06:41.840 the development and the production of this movie, so he 1:06:41.880 --> 1:06:45.920 funded it himself by accepting these commercial directing gigs, and 1:06:46.000 --> 1:06:49.240 it happened over a four year period, and so I'm 1:06:49.280 --> 1:06:53.440 guessing it went into production in the early two thousands. 1:06:53.480 --> 1:06:57.240 Because this movie premiered at TIFF in two thousand and six. 1:06:57.960 --> 1:07:03.400 Tarsan was hoping that Roger Ebert would champion his film 1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:06.280 as he did for The Cell, and that because of 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:10.800 that kind of testimonial from Roger Ebert, he would get 1:07:10.800 --> 1:07:16.240 distribution for the movie after TIFF aka the Toronto International 1:07:16.240 --> 1:07:20.920 Film Festival. But Roger Ebert was sick and didn't attend 1:07:20.960 --> 1:07:27.640 the festival, and then Harvey Weinstein, World's Greatest Villain, basically 1:07:27.880 --> 1:07:30.520 was just like, this movie sucks. He walked out of 1:07:30.520 --> 1:07:31.680 it after fifteen minutes. 1:07:31.760 --> 1:07:33.840 He literally balled his fist up and was like I'm 1:07:33.920 --> 1:07:35.440 convinced and like. 1:07:35.680 --> 1:07:40.640 And stormed out. And because of that, like public rejection 1:07:40.800 --> 1:07:44.120 of the film, no one wanted to touch it, no one 1:07:44.160 --> 1:07:47.240 wanted to buy it for distribution. And that's part of 1:07:47.320 --> 1:07:51.800 why this movie basically never came out and was so 1:07:51.960 --> 1:07:55.640 hard to for anyone to get their hands on. And 1:07:56.080 --> 1:07:58.400 I mean not that it was impossible, because obviously people 1:07:58.440 --> 1:08:01.440 did see this movie and it developed up a cult following, 1:08:01.520 --> 1:08:06.120 but it was very not accessible for most of the 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:12.600 time this movie has existed. The end of my little story. 1:08:12.480 --> 1:08:18.120 It is, I mean, there's so well getting into the 1:08:18.160 --> 1:08:20.280 woman of it all, because I guess that's a job. 1:08:21.320 --> 1:08:25.800 I do think it's interesting we see these stories of 1:08:26.560 --> 1:08:28.720 various I mean, and it's not like Tarson was like 1:08:28.880 --> 1:08:31.120 a world famous director. I think he was a very 1:08:31.120 --> 1:08:33.920 wealthy director because he directed so many commercials, So it 1:08:34.040 --> 1:08:37.360 is there is kind of a distinction there totally. But 1:08:38.080 --> 1:08:42.160 people who financed their like dream projects on a very 1:08:42.400 --> 1:08:47.280 large scale. I was looking at the list of directors 1:08:47.280 --> 1:08:49.160 that have done this through the years and they and 1:08:49.240 --> 1:08:51.599 you won't believe what they all have in common. They're 1:08:51.600 --> 1:08:54.800 all men. Only men have ever been able to it 1:08:54.840 --> 1:08:58.400 seems like afford to take a swing like this, which 1:08:58.439 --> 1:09:00.519 I think just like gets back into convers stations we've 1:09:00.560 --> 1:09:04.800 had before about you know, who's big swings get the 1:09:04.880 --> 1:09:07.400 chance to even be I mean, I think it is 1:09:07.439 --> 1:09:11.600 pretty upsetting, like the way that The Fall hit basically 1:09:11.720 --> 1:09:15.280 every like setback it could have hit. But that doesn't 1:09:15.320 --> 1:09:17.840 mean that Tarzan didn't get to realize through a lot 1:09:17.880 --> 1:09:19.920 of like fifteen is it, but he could have. I mean, 1:09:19.960 --> 1:09:21.760 to be able to afford to make this movie is 1:09:21.840 --> 1:09:23.400 pretty staggering. 1:09:23.600 --> 1:09:26.720 He spent somewhere around twenty to thirty million dollars of 1:09:26.760 --> 1:09:28.479 his own money, yeah, on the production. 1:09:28.840 --> 1:09:31.639 And I liked in the in the in that article 1:09:31.840 --> 1:09:37.559 in the Indie Wire article by Leila Jordan, innocent, he 1:09:37.720 --> 1:09:39.880 was like told his brother not to tell him how 1:09:39.960 --> 1:09:42.160 much money he had lost, but like to be in 1:09:42.200 --> 1:09:45.280 that position, you know, is very few directors have ever 1:09:45.280 --> 1:09:48.200 been in that position. Obviously. Our most recent example is 1:09:48.320 --> 1:09:51.679 Megalopolis and I'm not even opposed, Like I'm not opposed 1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:56.080 to that conceptually, it's like if sure, but yeah, I 1:09:56.080 --> 1:09:58.759 don't know it just I was I was like, maybe 1:09:58.840 --> 1:10:01.800 maybe there's a sequel woman that I that could have 1:10:01.800 --> 1:10:06.200 afforded to do this, but so far it doesn't seem 1:10:06.360 --> 1:10:08.960 that that was the case. And also, I mean, this 1:10:09.080 --> 1:10:13.360 movie opens on David Fincher and Spike Jones, presents two 1:10:14.080 --> 1:10:18.120 fellow male auteurs, and it turns out they had absolutely 1:10:18.120 --> 1:10:19.800 nothing to do with it, and they just put their 1:10:19.880 --> 1:10:22.360 names on it to increase its chances of being seen 1:10:22.400 --> 1:10:25.800 because they liked Tar's previous work. So nice of them 1:10:25.840 --> 1:10:29.080 to do, and also funny that they had nothing to 1:10:29.080 --> 1:10:29.519 do with it. 1:10:30.240 --> 1:10:32.880 Have you have you read the Vulture article that's like 1:10:32.920 --> 1:10:35.519 the hundred most powerful directors in Hollywood that came out 1:10:35.560 --> 1:10:36.160 like a week ago. 1:10:36.720 --> 1:10:38.679 I didn't for my own safety. 1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:42.639 What I mean, it really does fall into the fingers 1:10:42.640 --> 1:10:44.439 saying I think there's like three women on that list. 1:10:44.880 --> 1:10:48.160 It's like, and I don't think it's a reflection of 1:10:48.920 --> 1:10:54.000 Vulture or reflection of the time. It's like there truly 1:10:54.120 --> 1:10:57.920 is like no power except outside of like Gretigerwigan closure 1:10:57.960 --> 1:11:00.280 out who've had to kind of do every thing and 1:11:00.439 --> 1:11:01.559 endure so much hate. 1:11:02.120 --> 1:11:05.880 Yeah, okay, I haven't pulled up now. I yeah, there's 1:11:05.920 --> 1:11:08.360 certain articles where I'm like, maybe in a year, I 1:11:08.400 --> 1:11:11.320 don't want to be reminded of how how low my 1:11:11.720 --> 1:11:13.639 chances are for success are. 1:11:14.240 --> 1:11:16.840 But it's also it's like a fun contrast because there's 1:11:16.960 --> 1:11:19.840 like twenty twenty year old guys on there who you know, 1:11:20.200 --> 1:11:23.920 maybe maybe aren't the most of deserved, but I guess 1:11:24.000 --> 1:11:25.320 that's just how power moves. 1:11:25.400 --> 1:11:29.479 Which look kN Parsons get behind me. I will protect 1:11:29.520 --> 1:11:30.799 my nephew, King Parson. 1:11:31.320 --> 1:11:32.920 I'm not talking about him till I don't think he 1:11:33.000 --> 1:11:33.760 makes the lest yet. 1:11:36.080 --> 1:11:38.680 It is fascinating. Yeah, I've we got greteger where at 1:11:38.760 --> 1:11:41.120 number four, but even she's stuck in franchise world, like 1:11:41.200 --> 1:11:44.720 it's just I don't know. I'm very glad that The 1:11:44.720 --> 1:11:47.360 Fall is able to exist. I think that a lot 1:11:47.400 --> 1:11:49.439 of the conversation around this movie is it's wild that 1:11:49.520 --> 1:11:51.400 it was able to exist, because this is not the 1:11:51.479 --> 1:11:54.000 kind of movie that anyone asks for, And it's like 1:11:54.080 --> 1:11:57.960 Tarsum realizing his perfect art, which is like amazing, And 1:11:58.000 --> 1:12:01.240 I just wish that more women got the chance to 1:12:01.280 --> 1:12:05.680 do something equally unhinged as to what Tarsam has done here. 1:12:06.160 --> 1:12:06.479 Right. 1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:08.760 Also, the Mountain Dew commercials fun. 1:12:09.360 --> 1:12:10.000 That was that was? 1:12:10.040 --> 1:12:10.800 What did you watch it? 1:12:10.840 --> 1:12:13.800 I did, Samurai Fi. It's pretty fun. 1:12:15.240 --> 1:12:17.240 We'll link it in the description. 1:12:17.320 --> 1:12:20.080 Yes, if you want to see the titular Rutin Dew commercial. 1:12:20.920 --> 1:12:25.439 But going back to your initial remark, ALI about like, 1:12:26.000 --> 1:12:30.799 this is a movie about a man relaying this story 1:12:30.880 --> 1:12:34.240 that he's making up as he goes that he's drawing 1:12:34.400 --> 1:12:39.160 inspiration from his real life as well as kind of 1:12:39.200 --> 1:12:42.559 like historical events that were like in the news at 1:12:42.600 --> 1:12:47.200 the time. And then it's this young girl populating the 1:12:47.320 --> 1:12:50.639 version of the story that we're actually seeing unfold on screen. 1:12:50.760 --> 1:12:54.800 So while he's narrating it, she's like filling in the 1:12:54.840 --> 1:12:59.360 gaps and influencing the story, like we said earlier, because 1:12:59.400 --> 1:13:03.160 sometimes she'll like question story logic or react to a 1:13:03.200 --> 1:13:08.080 specific detail that he either then like emphasizes or changes 1:13:08.240 --> 1:13:11.000 depending on her reactions. So she has a lot of 1:13:11.080 --> 1:13:14.080 influence over this story. And a part that I thought 1:13:14.160 --> 1:13:18.960 was so moving was toward the end, it's after Alexandria 1:13:19.360 --> 1:13:24.040 has fallen trying to retrieve more pills for Roy, and 1:13:24.120 --> 1:13:27.519 she has a head injury and she's crying and begging 1:13:27.680 --> 1:13:29.880 Roy to finish the story and he's like, I don't 1:13:29.920 --> 1:13:33.280 want to. It's my story. I can do whatever with it. 1:13:33.360 --> 1:13:36.920 And she's like, no, it's my story too, and she's 1:13:36.920 --> 1:13:40.559 absolutely right because she's had so much influence over it. 1:13:40.800 --> 1:13:43.160 And Roy is so frustrating at this point in the 1:13:43.200 --> 1:13:46.840 story where I'm like, Hm, can you fucking grow up 1:13:47.000 --> 1:13:50.280 for what? This kid cracked her head open trying to 1:13:50.360 --> 1:13:54.240 help you, trying to help you, and You're like, no, no, friend, 1:13:55.280 --> 1:13:59.240 shut up, dude, a child could have died. 1:14:00.200 --> 1:14:03.000 Also, like the story that he's telling at first kind 1:14:03.000 --> 1:14:06.040 of sucks. It's just a guy who has been spurned 1:14:06.080 --> 1:14:08.920 and now he's going revenge mode. And I love our 1:14:08.960 --> 1:14:10.920 revenge story. I think when I was twelve, I found 1:14:10.960 --> 1:14:12.519 a copy of an abridged version of The Count of 1:14:12.520 --> 1:14:15.120 Monic Cristo and made it my personality. In third grade, 1:14:15.120 --> 1:14:16.760 I was like having my friends on the playground. I 1:14:16.760 --> 1:14:19.120 was teaching them about vengeance at the right page of 1:14:19.120 --> 1:14:21.160 twelve and we were like going, We're going at it. 1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:24.200 But this story is just like he's just I got rejected, 1:14:24.240 --> 1:14:26.000 so now I'm going to kill every single person. And 1:14:26.000 --> 1:14:29.360 there's even the characters that he inserts, like I think 1:14:29.360 --> 1:14:33.519 you mentioned Darwin and Atamanga, who are both representations of 1:14:33.560 --> 1:14:37.360 social Darwinism. It's like a very man strong, survival fittest 1:14:37.439 --> 1:14:41.040 better I destroy thing. And then until Alexandria begins to 1:14:41.080 --> 1:14:45.400 like input her lines, there's a softness and more nuanced 1:14:45.479 --> 1:14:47.320 to it, which I think is really funny that like 1:14:47.360 --> 1:14:50.559 the seven year old is coming in with so much. 1:14:50.800 --> 1:14:53.479 Like just a five year old, she's even younger. 1:14:53.600 --> 1:14:55.960 Yeah, I've just been throwing out numbers randomly. 1:14:56.080 --> 1:14:59.120 I'm like twelve seven. 1:15:00.080 --> 1:15:02.799 Yeah. I think that that's something that like the script 1:15:02.800 --> 1:15:04.760 in the story does very well. Is like it does 1:15:04.800 --> 1:15:09.520 clear like this story is enhanced the moment she gets involved, 1:15:09.560 --> 1:15:12.719 and that the end, she kind of saves the story 1:15:13.400 --> 1:15:16.920 on multiple levels where she you know, like reassures Roy 1:15:17.200 --> 1:15:22.000 like no, you're awesome, dude, because that's what has happened, 1:15:22.040 --> 1:15:24.760 but also like it becomes a better story for her 1:15:24.880 --> 1:15:28.519 having been involved. It's not just the tantrum ending that 1:15:28.640 --> 1:15:33.519 Roy wants it to be. But yeah, within that story 1:15:33.600 --> 1:15:37.800 it's we are I guess, subjected to Roy's conception of 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:41.760 women and rejection quite a bit and like you're saying, Ali, 1:15:41.920 --> 1:15:45.200 like Alexandria's pushback on that sort of ends up giving 1:15:45.240 --> 1:15:47.599 the story more depth than it would have had otherwise, 1:15:47.880 --> 1:15:51.160 but there's still not really until Alexandria shows up in 1:15:51.240 --> 1:15:54.439 the story little bandit style, which I kind of. 1:15:54.360 --> 1:15:59.560 Wish had happened earlier. She had maybe inserted herself in earlier, 1:15:59.640 --> 1:16:00.960 but sorry, go on. 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:04.800 But before then, Yeah, it's it's very like he's creating 1:16:04.880 --> 1:16:06.920 these and I still want to talk about the historic 1:16:07.040 --> 1:16:11.800 people that he chooses, specifically Ota Banga, but he's assembling 1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:16.920 his you know, nineteen twenties avengers, his morphine avengers, and 1:16:17.439 --> 1:16:19.360 you know, of course, of course they are all men. 1:16:19.560 --> 1:16:24.120 And there is it sticks out to me most of 1:16:24.160 --> 1:16:27.200 like this character's conception of women in Yeah, in the 1:16:27.240 --> 1:16:29.560 scene where first of all, there's like, oh, sort of 1:16:29.560 --> 1:16:32.400 a white savior thing going where a group of enslaved 1:16:32.400 --> 1:16:37.200 people are liberated, but then immediately after he sees a 1:16:37.200 --> 1:16:39.559 woman and is like, I will marry her. She's mine, 1:16:39.760 --> 1:16:42.519 and you're like, all right, So we're playing with a 1:16:42.600 --> 1:16:46.040 bunch of different rules in here, and that character never 1:16:46.280 --> 1:16:49.920 like fails to ever fully take shape, which corresponds with 1:16:50.040 --> 1:16:55.160 how that like whatever. Clearly, even though we see her 1:16:55.280 --> 1:16:58.280 as nurse Evelyn in the story world, I think, to Roy, 1:16:58.520 --> 1:17:02.880 it's his ex girlfriend who sure dumped him for a 1:17:02.960 --> 1:17:06.519 Hollywood guy, a movie star. And I do feel like 1:17:06.640 --> 1:17:09.760 this story, like we only really get one glimpse of her. 1:17:10.439 --> 1:17:14.280 She's crying, she's at the hospital, like, but we never 1:17:14.320 --> 1:17:18.880 get to know who this woman is. Perhaps maybe she 1:17:19.080 --> 1:17:23.360 had a good reason for Britt, Like it's never conceived of. 1:17:23.960 --> 1:17:26.960 We're told she left me for a richer, more successful man, 1:17:27.320 --> 1:17:29.839 and it does seem like he's an asshole, but perhaps 1:17:29.920 --> 1:17:32.240 she has a type and Roy was also an asshole, 1:17:32.880 --> 1:17:35.679 Like we're I think that the way the story works, 1:17:35.840 --> 1:17:37.920 we're left to believe, you know, kind of in the 1:17:38.120 --> 1:17:43.280 more classic broad storytelling sense, she left him because he 1:17:43.360 --> 1:17:47.960 was less powerful, not because maybe his personality sucked. 1:17:49.360 --> 1:17:51.599 Roy does objectively suck, Like this is a guy who 1:17:51.760 --> 1:17:54.040 he's not a good dude. Also, can we talk about 1:17:54.040 --> 1:17:56.000 how the first chance he gets, he's like, oh, she 1:17:56.040 --> 1:17:57.599 doesn't want me, I have to kill her now. 1:17:57.920 --> 1:18:00.439 That's like a yes, yeah, yeah. 1:18:00.479 --> 1:18:03.519 And for a character that he's like has clearly like 1:18:03.640 --> 1:18:06.920 he is, the storyteller has no interest in her inferiority. 1:18:07.040 --> 1:18:09.200 He's like, she's beautiful, she is mine. 1:18:09.520 --> 1:18:12.280 And then she's not mine. Time to die. 1:18:13.080 --> 1:18:16.439 And then the other woman who appears very very briefly 1:18:16.520 --> 1:18:20.400 toward the beginning of his story is the character whose 1:18:20.479 --> 1:18:26.559 name is the Indian. His wife is kidnapped and then 1:18:26.760 --> 1:18:32.519 fridged to motivate the Indian's narrative and like story of 1:18:32.600 --> 1:18:34.599 revenge for the rest of the movie. 1:18:34.760 --> 1:18:38.439 So right, which is like, in the context of like 1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:42.880 the time this story is taking place in might make sense, 1:18:42.920 --> 1:18:46.600 but it's also being written in the early two thousands, 1:18:46.640 --> 1:18:48.840 and we have this little girl here who's never seen 1:18:48.880 --> 1:18:51.479 a movie before. Like that's a great opportunity to have 1:18:51.560 --> 1:18:54.559 pushback on a plot point like that. If there's a 1:18:54.560 --> 1:18:57.200 little girl that's like, there's no girls in this story, 1:18:57.840 --> 1:19:01.519 you know, maybe the direction actually changes. Like I don't 1:19:01.560 --> 1:19:03.439 think it needed to be like a one to one 1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:06.920 of like what the conception of women in movies in 1:19:06.960 --> 1:19:09.559 the twenties would have been, which wasn't even exclusively that. 1:19:09.840 --> 1:19:16.160 But yeah, yeah, there's we do have Nurse Evelyn, who, 1:19:16.760 --> 1:19:20.559 as we said, we're fans she we don't get I 1:19:20.560 --> 1:19:24.200 mean again, we don't get a ton of we get 1:19:24.200 --> 1:19:25.920 a fair amount of time with her. I don't think 1:19:25.920 --> 1:19:27.960 we get like a she doesn't really have much of 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:31.439 her own story, but we do get some time with her. 1:19:31.600 --> 1:19:36.880 We get one scene with Alexandria's mom that I appreciated. 1:19:36.960 --> 1:19:42.080 But again, like, except for Alexandria, there's not really a 1:19:42.120 --> 1:19:46.400 girl or woman in the story that you get to 1:19:46.520 --> 1:19:50.280 know or that like the movie seems to have interest 1:19:50.360 --> 1:19:53.160 in outside of a symbol of something else. Because I 1:19:53.200 --> 1:19:55.960 think while I really like Nurse Evelyn, she ultimately kind 1:19:56.000 --> 1:20:00.479 of symbolizes a maternal figure for Alexandria, and like a 1:20:00.560 --> 1:20:04.160 maternal figure specifically because she takes care of her. She 1:20:04.240 --> 1:20:05.800 puts her at ease, and she shows her how to 1:20:05.800 --> 1:20:07.519 put on makeup, and those are kind of the things 1:20:07.560 --> 1:20:08.519 that Nurseblin does. 1:20:08.880 --> 1:20:12.280 I also, I think Nurse Evelyn's perception, even in Alexandria's mind, 1:20:12.360 --> 1:20:15.599 kind of shows a little bit of a normalization. And oh, 1:20:15.720 --> 1:20:17.760 that is the pretty woman who takes care of me. 1:20:17.840 --> 1:20:20.080 Her purpose is to marry the nice man that I 1:20:20.080 --> 1:20:23.000 have met in the hospital, and I put them together. 1:20:23.040 --> 1:20:25.320 And this is what society has taught me to belief, 1:20:25.360 --> 1:20:28.080 which I mean it's a it is a reflection of 1:20:28.120 --> 1:20:30.599 how people think unfortunately but not great. 1:20:30.880 --> 1:20:33.800 Yeah, yeah I did. Yeah, but like going back to 1:20:33.880 --> 1:20:37.200 your original point, Ellie, like it is kind of an 1:20:37.240 --> 1:20:40.280 in cell revenge story on Roy's part that I don't 1:20:40.320 --> 1:20:43.719 think the movie is pushing back off, like not commenting 1:20:43.760 --> 1:20:46.160 on enough to just I kind of am like, maybe 1:20:46.160 --> 1:20:50.240 this is where like Tarzan's like, yeah, exactly, anyone in 1:20:50.280 --> 1:20:51.599 his position would do the same. 1:20:51.680 --> 1:20:55.559 How dare she like, yeah, maybe you should have gotten 1:20:55.640 --> 1:20:56.680 dumped Roy. I don't know. 1:20:58.920 --> 1:21:02.320 Yeah, I don't know based on Roy's Oh, I mean 1:21:02.320 --> 1:21:05.519 I understand, like whoever, I'll show Roy, this man who 1:21:05.560 --> 1:21:10.280 doesn't exist grace, why not that he is recently paralyzed 1:21:10.520 --> 1:21:12.439 and like the whole shape of his life is going 1:21:12.479 --> 1:21:15.719 to change. He is feeling upset that this is going 1:21:15.720 --> 1:21:18.439 to cost him the career path he was on all 1:21:18.479 --> 1:21:22.599 this stuff, Like he's at a low point. Obviously he's 1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:28.080 he's suicidal, but I don't but I don't think that 1:21:28.080 --> 1:21:32.160 that makes his Like, but it seems like he's blaming 1:21:32.479 --> 1:21:36.440 his ex girlfriend for all of this in the story 1:21:36.560 --> 1:21:41.240 and in his attitude towards her. Yeah, maybe not maybe 1:21:41.240 --> 1:21:44.520 not our best movie for women, But again, like Alexandria 1:21:44.640 --> 1:21:46.519 saves so much of it. I'm so glad that they 1:21:46.560 --> 1:21:48.599 cast a young girl in this role. 1:21:48.960 --> 1:21:53.400 Also, not to objectify Lee Pace, but do you realize 1:21:53.439 --> 1:21:57.280 how massively you probably fucked up to be dumped when 1:21:57.280 --> 1:22:01.880 you look likely Pace for a hee. He's like a 1:22:01.920 --> 1:22:04.759 decently attractive man. I'll give him that odios or whatever 1:22:04.800 --> 1:22:08.120 the sinclair, but to break up with Lee Pace for him, 1:22:08.640 --> 1:22:10.280 has to have a really terrible personality. 1:22:10.720 --> 1:22:13.800 For a second, I thought that the famous actor was 1:22:13.840 --> 1:22:19.240 played by Jason Schwartzmin but I was wrong. I don't know. 1:22:19.360 --> 1:22:21.439 I think I've just seen him wear a little hat 1:22:21.520 --> 1:22:25.080 like that in a different movie and my men. But yes, yeah, 1:22:25.320 --> 1:22:27.840 that I think maybe confirms that that Roy had a 1:22:27.880 --> 1:22:32.960 shitty personality because he is Lee Pace. He's a gainfully 1:22:33.000 --> 1:22:35.600 employed Lee Pace, Like, what's the problem. 1:22:35.400 --> 1:22:37.880 What's going on here? He can do stunts, he can 1:22:38.040 --> 1:22:41.040 he's able to convince children to give him the devices 1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:42.320 to kill him songs. 1:22:42.760 --> 1:22:47.880 He's clearly although if you have to manipulate a child, 1:22:48.200 --> 1:22:49.360 maybe you're not the guy. 1:22:50.240 --> 1:22:54.360 But he knows how to do a solution. But yeah, 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:57.360 you were you were saying that you're glad you cast 1:22:57.560 --> 1:22:59.960 a they cast a girl, and I think your credit 1:23:00.040 --> 1:23:02.000 the original version of the story was a ten year 1:23:02.040 --> 1:23:05.120 old boy and a grown man, So I think this iteration. 1:23:05.240 --> 1:23:09.080 I'm curious about why Tarsum went for this, and I'm 1:23:09.120 --> 1:23:11.920 not sure it's with the same nuances and motivations that 1:23:11.920 --> 1:23:14.040 we're talking about. But I'm really intrigued to see what 1:23:14.040 --> 1:23:16.000 his intentions are of I need to bring a girl 1:23:16.040 --> 1:23:19.760 into what kind of norms are out the foundation of thought? 1:23:20.120 --> 1:23:23.759 Yeah, because I think without Alexandria, this movie is almost 1:23:23.760 --> 1:23:27.879 completely essentialist about gender and gender roles and who's entitled 1:23:27.880 --> 1:23:32.200 to who as literal property. Well, he calls DIBs. He 1:23:32.360 --> 1:23:34.000 literally calls divs. 1:23:34.840 --> 1:23:38.960 From what I learned, and I can't remember if this 1:23:39.080 --> 1:23:43.519 was from the Indie Wire article or it must have 1:23:43.600 --> 1:23:48.160 been that when they were casting for the child, they 1:23:48.360 --> 1:23:52.479 weren't looking for any specific gender. They were more looking 1:23:52.520 --> 1:23:58.360 for children that responded very like emphatically to stories that 1:23:58.400 --> 1:24:02.200 were being told. So in the travels, as they were 1:24:02.560 --> 1:24:05.760 doing location scouting or prep work or something like that, 1:24:06.000 --> 1:24:08.639 they were in Romania and they went to a school 1:24:09.200 --> 1:24:13.719 and observed a teacher or some adult telling a story 1:24:13.720 --> 1:24:17.200 to a group of children, and the person who fit 1:24:17.360 --> 1:24:21.400 the bill the best was this young girl Katinka, who 1:24:21.439 --> 1:24:23.120 I think was four and a half at the time. 1:24:24.280 --> 1:24:27.280 By the time they shot her scenes she was I 1:24:27.280 --> 1:24:31.600 believe six, But yeah, she was just cast because she 1:24:32.400 --> 1:24:38.160 gave such like animated responses to hearing a story. 1:24:38.760 --> 1:24:42.240 She's awesome, and her casting I feel like saves what 1:24:43.400 --> 1:24:45.880 at least from a gender respective what otherwise would have 1:24:45.920 --> 1:24:47.400 been saying not very much. 1:24:48.080 --> 1:24:51.080 And then there are some other things to consider about 1:24:51.120 --> 1:24:58.040 this story that Roy tells that are perhaps not super great, 1:24:58.360 --> 1:25:04.080 such as again the character who is just called the Indian, 1:25:04.800 --> 1:25:08.880 who is also completely silent. I think he never has 1:25:09.040 --> 1:25:13.840 any dialogue and feels very underdeveloped as a character as 1:25:13.880 --> 1:25:19.360 a result. There's the odebannga character who does say some things, 1:25:19.400 --> 1:25:22.400 but he similarly doesn't have a ton of dialogue. 1:25:22.600 --> 1:25:27.599 Well, and Odabanga is also it's such a I'm curious 1:25:27.800 --> 1:25:33.479 why they pull this specific historical figure because Odabanga would 1:25:33.520 --> 1:25:36.960 have been probably someone who Roy, living in the twenties, 1:25:36.960 --> 1:25:41.719 would have been aware of, but had an extremely tragic 1:25:42.240 --> 1:25:45.120 life that I know that. I think that the idea 1:25:45.120 --> 1:25:48.240 of the story is to bring this historical figure into 1:25:48.320 --> 1:25:51.840 a story and have him have more of a triumphant moment, 1:25:52.680 --> 1:25:56.919 but without any context. It's just it's so the background 1:25:56.920 --> 1:26:01.040 with Odebango is that he was a formerly enslaved person 1:26:01.680 --> 1:26:05.160 from the Congo who was brought to the US as 1:26:05.400 --> 1:26:09.320 an exhibit, so basically treated throughout his life, first as 1:26:09.360 --> 1:26:13.120 an exhibit of an enslaved person from the Congo at 1:26:13.200 --> 1:26:17.320 the nineteen oh four Louisiana Purchase Exposition, and then later 1:26:17.800 --> 1:26:21.080 was brought to the Bronx Zoo and literally exhibited as 1:26:21.760 --> 1:26:23.240 a zoo animal. 1:26:23.040 --> 1:26:25.719 Like put in cages with monkeys and. 1:26:25.640 --> 1:26:28.920 Apes, and then eventually just made quote unquote an exhibit 1:26:28.960 --> 1:26:31.920 of his own And this is I mean, this was 1:26:31.920 --> 1:26:36.160 happening in the early nineteen hundreds and he eventually took 1:26:36.160 --> 1:26:40.680 his own life in nineteen sixteen, so horrific. Like I 1:26:40.840 --> 1:26:45.400 don't even know where to begin. So for I don't know, 1:26:45.640 --> 1:26:48.400 I just feel like this is I'm not object to 1:26:48.479 --> 1:26:51.960 Odabanga being like awareness being brought to him, but it's like, 1:26:52.160 --> 1:26:54.559 if you're bringing ode Beka into the conversation, I feel 1:26:54.600 --> 1:26:58.040 like you really have a responsibility to do so carefully 1:26:58.520 --> 1:27:02.280 and like thoughtfully, because by two thousand and six, you know, 1:27:02.720 --> 1:27:05.439 this is not someone who we really discuss and not 1:27:05.880 --> 1:27:09.479 someone who I would imagine the US is willing to 1:27:09.600 --> 1:27:13.160 acknowledge that this happened, not to mention, just one hundred 1:27:13.280 --> 1:27:16.400 years before this movie was being filmed. So while it 1:27:16.439 --> 1:27:19.360 doesn't seem to be like an openly antagonistically I don't 1:27:19.400 --> 1:27:22.240 think that this is being done, that this historical figure 1:27:22.280 --> 1:27:24.360 is being brought into the story in a way that 1:27:24.479 --> 1:27:28.200 is intended to cause harm. But I just didn't seem 1:27:28.320 --> 1:27:32.400 given who Odebka is and how tragic his story was, 1:27:32.479 --> 1:27:37.040 I don't know. I don't know, because that choice was 1:27:37.360 --> 1:27:38.040 confusing to. 1:27:38.000 --> 1:27:44.519 Me, especially because so the other historical figure that is 1:27:44.600 --> 1:27:48.320 referenced by name as a character in Roy's story is 1:27:48.400 --> 1:27:52.120 Charles Darwin, and he gets a whole story, and it's 1:27:52.280 --> 1:27:56.639 and the monkey, and it's referencing the dispute between Charles 1:27:56.720 --> 1:28:02.000 Darwin and Alfred Russell Wallace regards darting like the credit 1:28:02.120 --> 1:28:05.640 for the ideas that were put forth in on the 1:28:05.640 --> 1:28:09.400 Origin of Species, which is again directly reference in the 1:28:09.439 --> 1:28:14.519 sense that the Charles Darwin character is often seen stealing 1:28:14.640 --> 1:28:17.599 ideas that Wallace the monkey gave him and then taking 1:28:17.640 --> 1:28:21.720 sole credit for them. So his story is like specifically referenced. 1:28:22.040 --> 1:28:27.320 But then ode Benga the only references about the real 1:28:27.520 --> 1:28:32.400 historical person that you see in the character in this 1:28:32.560 --> 1:28:36.880 movie is that he's a former enslaved person. And then 1:28:36.920 --> 1:28:39.120 he also carries a bow and arrow, which is a 1:28:39.160 --> 1:28:44.160 reference to when real life Odebannga was literally put in 1:28:44.200 --> 1:28:48.640 a cage alongside an orangutan. He was given a functional 1:28:48.640 --> 1:28:51.600 bow and arrow in case he needed to use it 1:28:51.920 --> 1:28:56.559 against the ape for his protection, but instead of doing that, 1:28:57.120 --> 1:29:01.799 Odebannga would shoot people who mocked him at the exhibit. 1:29:02.360 --> 1:29:06.240 So the bow and arrow is referenced, but again you 1:29:06.280 --> 1:29:08.280 don't know any of the context for it if you 1:29:08.320 --> 1:29:12.240 were just watching this movie. Yeah, yeah, it's just very 1:29:12.960 --> 1:29:13.800 yeah bizarre. 1:29:14.000 --> 1:29:17.240 It feels pretty I mean, especially because Charles Darwin is 1:29:18.280 --> 1:29:23.040 a historical figure that most Western audiences are like, he's 1:29:23.120 --> 1:29:26.160 taught in schools. But for this movie to go, yeah, 1:29:26.200 --> 1:29:28.639 out of its way to like reference some like kind 1:29:28.640 --> 1:29:34.200 of b side Charles Darwin lore and give that historical figure. 1:29:34.560 --> 1:29:36.880 I mean we also have Alexander the Great at the 1:29:36.920 --> 1:29:41.360 beginning as well, but to have that historical figure given 1:29:41.520 --> 1:29:44.320 more depth and more references and like this like kind 1:29:44.360 --> 1:29:46.960 of I think, like beautiful tragic scene at the end, 1:29:47.120 --> 1:29:48.840 the monkey see at the end is so sad, And 1:29:48.880 --> 1:29:51.759 I wasn't able to find the name of the actor 1:29:52.520 --> 1:29:56.080 who played Wallace. He's not creditor, he's not credited in 1:29:56.080 --> 1:29:58.160 the movie. I was hoping for a Jimmy the Raven 1:29:58.240 --> 1:30:01.680 kind of situation. But anyways, that is Sally Seagull. If 1:30:01.680 --> 1:30:04.880 you have listened to a recent Lighthouse episode on our 1:30:04.960 --> 1:30:10.320 Matreon legend Sally Segull scene Steeler. But all that to say, yeah, 1:30:10.320 --> 1:30:14.360 like this movie clearly does have the time space and 1:30:14.479 --> 1:30:19.280 energy to build out the historical characters there invoke and 1:30:19.360 --> 1:30:22.080 do not do that for Odebanka. And it's like, if 1:30:22.120 --> 1:30:26.479 you're not able to contend with the history of what 1:30:26.520 --> 1:30:30.479 Odebanka went through and how tragic history was, then why 1:30:31.240 --> 1:30:32.720 choose him to include in. 1:30:32.680 --> 1:30:33.240 The first place. 1:30:33.280 --> 1:30:35.400 Like I just was confused by that choice. 1:30:35.720 --> 1:30:41.320 It's bizarre. And then in addition to that, again regarding 1:30:41.520 --> 1:30:47.439 Roy's story and the details he chooses to include, you've 1:30:47.479 --> 1:30:52.880 also got the mystic played by a white actor who 1:30:53.680 --> 1:30:57.720 various points in the movie has like different shades of 1:30:57.880 --> 1:31:02.439 darkened skin ak he's in like black and brown face. 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:06.000 And then for that character and like his quote unquote 1:31:06.040 --> 1:31:09.400 mystic cult, it felt to me like they were coded 1:31:09.520 --> 1:31:13.439 as an indigenous tribe, and it feels like tropes around 1:31:13.479 --> 1:31:18.519 indigenous characters were present, especially because we never really learn 1:31:18.800 --> 1:31:22.120 anything about any of these characters, so we're just seeing 1:31:23.080 --> 1:31:28.080 stereotypical imagery. But then you think about who is conceiving 1:31:28.240 --> 1:31:32.880 and telling this story, and it's Roy, who is a 1:31:32.960 --> 1:31:37.600 CIS white man in the nineteen twenties, so it's not 1:31:37.760 --> 1:31:44.320 gonna be a progressive, inclusive story. But also this movie 1:31:44.720 --> 1:31:47.680 was made in the early two thousands, so there can 1:31:47.760 --> 1:31:48.240 also be. 1:31:49.120 --> 1:31:54.080 There's also a specific kind of early two thousands, like 1:31:54.160 --> 1:31:56.920 any periodies, you're like, okay, so there's the prejudices of 1:31:57.000 --> 1:31:59.640 the time we're talking about, and also whatever the hell 1:31:59.800 --> 1:32:01.120 was going when they made it. 1:32:02.680 --> 1:32:05.360 Right, I was doing I was doing some side reading 1:32:05.400 --> 1:32:08.959 on Ode Benga, and I found something kind of interesting. 1:32:09.040 --> 1:32:11.400 So the movie The Fall takes place in nineteen fifteen 1:32:11.880 --> 1:32:12.960 Oda Benga. 1:32:12.800 --> 1:32:15.040 Okay, yeah, he would have still been alive. 1:32:15.520 --> 1:32:18.040 Yeah, but he died of suicide in nineteen sixty and 1:32:18.120 --> 1:32:20.960 due to depression, which I think is a really interesting 1:32:21.000 --> 1:32:24.519 parallel too with a leapaced character, and potentially maybe why 1:32:24.720 --> 1:32:28.559 Tersa included it. But I don't know if the description 1:32:28.680 --> 1:32:31.519 there is, because I think there's a lot of parallel 1:32:31.600 --> 1:32:35.439 but I just don't think it's handled as gently right. 1:32:35.479 --> 1:32:37.640 I feel like we don't have enough information. 1:32:38.200 --> 1:32:41.400 Maybe I do want to know the psychology of why he. 1:32:41.400 --> 1:32:45.520 Included that, yeah, because it's not not that like Odebga 1:32:45.640 --> 1:32:48.599 is like a historical figure who we should talk about. 1:32:48.640 --> 1:32:51.720 But I'm just like in this movie, it's just like 1:32:51.840 --> 1:32:54.800 it just feels like a weird choice and it's a 1:32:54.880 --> 1:32:57.840 yeah for him to take on and then actually not 1:32:57.960 --> 1:33:01.960 take on. Just there are so many choices made in 1:33:02.160 --> 1:33:06.000 the movie The Fall two thousand and six, and a 1:33:06.080 --> 1:33:09.960 movie of choices, it's so, so, so many choices. 1:33:10.600 --> 1:33:14.599 Yeah, does anyone have anything else they want to talk 1:33:14.680 --> 1:33:19.240 about regarding all these choices? I know there any choices to. 1:33:19.200 --> 1:33:24.000 Talk about the choices. I would love to see Minion 1:33:24.080 --> 1:33:26.840 James's version of The Fall. I'll say, oh my god, 1:33:27.479 --> 1:33:29.680 I don't know what he would be doing, but I 1:33:29.680 --> 1:33:31.759 do think it would be problematic in its own life. 1:33:32.360 --> 1:33:35.599 It's I mean, yeah, I think you know, James. And 1:33:35.680 --> 1:33:38.120 also the fact that the choice not to spoilers for 1:33:38.200 --> 1:33:40.439 millions and monsters, don't let it ruin it for you. 1:33:40.720 --> 1:33:43.000 At the end, we find out that the movie we've 1:33:43.040 --> 1:33:45.600 just watched was written and directed by James, and so 1:33:45.800 --> 1:33:48.640 possibly none of it happened at all, and it's just 1:33:48.760 --> 1:33:54.160 James's rewriting of history, meaning that all of you know, 1:33:54.240 --> 1:33:58.599 any any tropes, any harmful tropes presented in Millions and Monsters. 1:33:58.600 --> 1:34:01.000 Well that's kind of on James. 1:34:00.720 --> 1:34:01.879 James le Mignon. 1:34:02.479 --> 1:34:07.040 Yes, so you know it's male auteurs. They're gonna do 1:34:07.080 --> 1:34:10.000 it every single time, even James. 1:34:10.040 --> 1:34:12.639 Again, they're they're making choices out there. 1:34:12.720 --> 1:34:14.559 A lot of pressure to be a male au tour 1:34:14.760 --> 1:34:15.479 and dominion. 1:34:16.040 --> 1:34:18.200 I it is kind of scary to be that James, 1:34:18.280 --> 1:34:20.959 the Minion is ranked higher than Greta Girlwig on Vultures 1:34:21.000 --> 1:34:25.919 one hundred most Powerful Directors. But how many Imax screens? 1:34:25.920 --> 1:34:27.440 That's Hollywood baby. 1:34:28.040 --> 1:34:30.120 To be fair to the Minions, I guess they don't 1:34:30.160 --> 1:34:32.840 have a nuanced understanding of gender because they're all male. 1:34:32.960 --> 1:34:37.160 So yeah, kind of that's a weird, weird true. 1:34:37.400 --> 1:34:39.800 But they're word for Scarlett overkill, you know, like they 1:34:40.080 --> 1:34:43.040 know a powerful woman when they see one of them. 1:34:43.439 --> 1:34:47.040 It's God, bring Scarlett Overkill back. If there's one Minions 1:34:47.040 --> 1:34:51.439 expanded universe character, I want back it's her anyways. Okay, 1:34:51.439 --> 1:34:54.240 that's all my thoughts I have on this movie end same. 1:34:54.560 --> 1:34:56.040 If we're back to dominions. 1:34:55.680 --> 1:34:58.360 Yeah, they'll be brought up the minions more times than 1:34:58.360 --> 1:35:02.720 the fall in this conversation. Fine, every movie comes back eventually. 1:35:02.800 --> 1:35:07.040 Of course. Of course, does this movie pass the Bechdel test? 1:35:07.720 --> 1:35:12.360 Yes it does. It passes between Alexandria and Nusanbalin a 1:35:12.400 --> 1:35:16.960 couple different times. I think it also passes between Alexandria 1:35:17.000 --> 1:35:19.759 and her mom, although I cannot be totally sure because 1:35:19.960 --> 1:35:23.439 I do not speak the language that Alexandria's mom does. 1:35:23.760 --> 1:35:27.519 But well, when when Alexandria is translating for her mother, 1:35:28.000 --> 1:35:29.960 it seems as though one of the one of the 1:35:30.000 --> 1:35:32.960 things that her mother wants to know is like how 1:35:33.040 --> 1:35:37.840 much longer Alexandria needs to be there? Slash, what is 1:35:37.880 --> 1:35:38.880 that going to cost? 1:35:38.960 --> 1:35:39.160 Her? 1:35:39.520 --> 1:35:42.920 Which goes back to class Ye, but yeah, we don't. 1:35:42.960 --> 1:35:46.160 We don't know exactly what the conversation is, but we 1:35:46.479 --> 1:35:50.880 glean bits here in there. But yes, that conversation does 1:35:50.920 --> 1:35:53.000 seem to pass. I would say, I think so. 1:35:53.160 --> 1:35:54.960 Yeah. I guess the reason I said I couldn't say 1:35:55.000 --> 1:35:58.559 for sure is because it seems like she's mistranslating her 1:35:58.560 --> 1:36:03.760 mom at several points in that conversation. But yeah, either way, 1:36:03.800 --> 1:36:06.400 it does pass the Bactels hast not handily. And I 1:36:06.400 --> 1:36:10.960 don't think, you know, there's a retroactive feminist argument to 1:36:11.000 --> 1:36:13.880 be made for this particular movie. But Alexandria, I mean, 1:36:13.920 --> 1:36:16.719 she's the saving grace of this movie. 1:36:17.080 --> 1:36:21.040 Definitely, Yes. And then as far as our nipple scale, 1:36:21.400 --> 1:36:25.000 the scale where we rate the movie zero to five 1:36:25.080 --> 1:36:29.320 nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, 1:36:31.120 --> 1:36:36.240 this is tricky, said, Yeah, it's a tough one. You know, 1:36:36.600 --> 1:36:41.720 it's it's not doing great, I would say, especially if 1:36:41.760 --> 1:36:48.360 we're considering the nature of Roy's story and his failure 1:36:48.560 --> 1:36:51.280 to include women meaningfully. 1:36:51.000 --> 1:36:52.840 And the fact that we haven't really said this, but 1:36:52.880 --> 1:36:55.880 at the end of the movie, it doesn't seem like 1:36:55.960 --> 1:36:59.160 he's really meaningfully even though like he clearly has formed 1:36:59.200 --> 1:37:02.400 a strong connection with this awesome kid, it doesn't seem 1:37:02.439 --> 1:37:04.880 like he's meaningfully grown as a person. He's still kind 1:37:04.920 --> 1:37:08.040 of like boohoo boo, who my GF dumped me? Like 1:37:08.080 --> 1:37:09.960 that's kind of his thing the whole movie. 1:37:10.280 --> 1:37:14.160 Yeah, it seems like I'm not gonna commit suicide, but 1:37:14.680 --> 1:37:18.240 I will still see woman asks what I've seen them 1:37:18.120 --> 1:37:19.040 first wise. 1:37:19.240 --> 1:37:22.120 Yeah she did, but she I still I don't have 1:37:22.200 --> 1:37:24.880 any reason to believe that he doesn't blame her fully 1:37:25.080 --> 1:37:27.080 at the end of the movie. Also, I think he 1:37:27.200 --> 1:37:30.960 just feels worse because it is he seems aware that 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:34.000 it's his fault of what happened Alexandria. But I think 1:37:34.040 --> 1:37:36.919 he still blames his ex girlfriend for basically everything else. 1:37:37.320 --> 1:37:40.760 Because the way he ends like her arc in his 1:37:41.120 --> 1:37:45.320 story is that she comes back up to him and says, 1:37:45.760 --> 1:37:49.280 this was all just an elaborate test to get you 1:37:49.360 --> 1:37:51.240 to prove how much you loved. 1:37:51.000 --> 1:37:53.559 Me, projecting yeah, he's right, and. 1:37:53.439 --> 1:37:57.479 Then he says something like hah no, thanks by forever, 1:37:57.920 --> 1:38:01.120 as if like it almost seems like I'm not fired, 1:38:01.240 --> 1:38:02.800 I quit kind of thing. 1:38:02.880 --> 1:38:05.880 It's also middle school. Like when I was in middle school, 1:38:06.160 --> 1:38:08.000 the way that people would break up with each other 1:38:08.080 --> 1:38:10.920 is they'd get in each other's face and go, you're cut. 1:38:11.120 --> 1:38:14.920 And that's sort of like what he's doing there. He's like, 1:38:15.120 --> 1:38:18.600 n uh, you're cut. Wow, I know you are, but 1:38:18.680 --> 1:38:21.479 what am I every breakup I've been through, I'm like, 1:38:21.520 --> 1:38:22.799 what if I just said you're cut? 1:38:23.600 --> 1:38:26.120 There there you move out. 1:38:26.400 --> 1:38:28.480 I feeling you should do that. It's just clear communication. 1:38:28.560 --> 1:38:30.760 It seems like that's your duty when you're breaking up 1:38:30.760 --> 1:38:32.000 with someone. Really clear. 1:38:32.200 --> 1:38:35.560 I can't like there's there's no there's no road for reconciliation. 1:38:35.880 --> 1:38:37.599 As I said, you're cut cut. 1:38:37.720 --> 1:38:39.639 You can't really misinterpret that. It's very clear. 1:38:40.840 --> 1:38:47.240 Yeah, in any case, So, yeah, Roy's story plays into 1:38:47.320 --> 1:38:52.680 a lot of tropes surrounding women being damsels or being fridged, 1:38:53.240 --> 1:38:57.719 tropes surrounding the various characters of color and characters who 1:38:58.120 --> 1:39:00.760 I feel like are coded as in digital But again 1:39:00.800 --> 1:39:03.080 we're not really sure what's going on there a lot 1:39:03.120 --> 1:39:06.320 of the time. But yeah, Roy's story that he's telling 1:39:07.000 --> 1:39:10.840 does not farewell on the Bechdel cast Nipple scale. The 1:39:11.000 --> 1:39:14.160 larger movie is a little bit more complicated because again, 1:39:14.720 --> 1:39:20.480 it is a story that this little girl is populating 1:39:20.720 --> 1:39:25.439 and interpreting through her lens, and so we see sort 1:39:25.439 --> 1:39:29.479 of like a more interesting and more nuanced version of 1:39:29.520 --> 1:39:34.479 the story that Roy is telling. But she's also five 1:39:34.560 --> 1:39:39.880 years old, so it's not gonna be too nuanced. Yeah, 1:39:39.920 --> 1:39:42.960 but I do appreciate that the child character is a 1:39:42.960 --> 1:39:47.479 little girl and she is like inserting her sensibilities into 1:39:47.479 --> 1:39:52.600 the story. So I don't know, like two nipples, I 1:39:52.640 --> 1:39:56.679 have no idea. I almost want to like differ. 1:39:58.880 --> 1:40:00.720 I'm gonna rate it because if he wants this to 1:40:00.760 --> 1:40:02.920 be viewed as a movie and so and so, I 1:40:03.040 --> 1:40:06.360 must rate it fair. Okay, I'll go with who nipples? 1:40:06.400 --> 1:40:08.680 Then I'm gonna go. I think I'm gonna go. And 1:40:08.720 --> 1:40:12.160 this is again I guess qualifying up. I say, I 1:40:12.160 --> 1:40:14.559 feel like so often if we're going to it, if 1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:16.639 there's like a criticism of this show, they're like, they 1:40:16.720 --> 1:40:19.200 gave it such a low rating, and it's like, well, 1:40:19.240 --> 1:40:22.200 but look at the framing of the rating. We're never 1:40:22.240 --> 1:40:24.599 writing it on how much we liked it, except if 1:40:24.600 --> 1:40:26.920 it's a Minion's movie they were giving it five, which 1:40:27.400 --> 1:40:30.599 of course, but you know, the point of the show 1:40:30.640 --> 1:40:33.839 is we're talking about a very specific subject within movies 1:40:33.880 --> 1:40:35.960 that we like. I say that because I am going 1:40:36.040 --> 1:40:39.280 to give this a one point five I and I 1:40:39.439 --> 1:40:40.880 really really really liked the. 1:40:40.840 --> 1:40:45.120 Movie, and I will be saying it's stunning, it's incredible, 1:40:45.240 --> 1:40:47.320 it's moving, it's great. 1:40:47.200 --> 1:40:51.519 It's going in the rotation. However, this movie doesn't I mean, 1:40:51.640 --> 1:40:55.599 outside of Alexandria's very strong characterization, which we know has 1:40:55.640 --> 1:40:57.719 a lot more to do with the performer than maybe 1:40:57.720 --> 1:41:01.040 the writing. This movie is pretty essential in the way 1:41:01.080 --> 1:41:04.120 that it views gender. And also, I mean, I think 1:41:04.200 --> 1:41:08.200 just knowing how Katinka and Taro was sort of spoken 1:41:08.240 --> 1:41:11.200 down to by the director also just leaves a bad 1:41:11.240 --> 1:41:13.439 taste in my mouth, especially because one of the points 1:41:13.439 --> 1:41:15.080 it does seem to try to be making about this 1:41:15.160 --> 1:41:18.880 character is that she shouldn't be like that. It's dangerous 1:41:19.000 --> 1:41:25.200 for children to be working and overworked. So it feels 1:41:25.320 --> 1:41:29.519 a little dissident in that way, and then everything else 1:41:29.520 --> 1:41:32.439 we've talked about. So, yeah, I'm gonna go one point 1:41:32.479 --> 1:41:36.920 five and I'm giving them both to my good friend 1:41:37.040 --> 1:41:40.559 Katinka who did not who who elected to not really 1:41:40.600 --> 1:41:42.880 go on to do very much acting, And I'd be 1:41:43.080 --> 1:41:44.880 I haven't seen any interviews with her, so I'd be 1:41:44.880 --> 1:41:49.000 curious as to like why she made that decision. Yeah, Ollie, 1:41:49.000 --> 1:41:49.479 how about you? 1:41:49.640 --> 1:41:52.040 I think I'm with Caitlin and just pure medal of 1:41:52.120 --> 1:41:55.839 the Road. This is kind of a two nipple movie, 1:41:56.200 --> 1:41:58.400 five star movie in general for me, because it's one 1:41:58.439 --> 1:42:01.439 of the most beautiful things as Yeah, but at the 1:42:01.560 --> 1:42:04.439 end of the day, it is like it does. It 1:42:04.479 --> 1:42:06.840 does push the message of you need more diversity in 1:42:06.840 --> 1:42:09.160 the stories that you tell, But it is kind of 1:42:09.240 --> 1:42:12.080 unfortunate to put all that weight on relying on a 1:42:12.080 --> 1:42:15.400 five year old, a child to be the voice of diversity, 1:42:15.520 --> 1:42:18.000 when it should kind of come from the adults. And 1:42:18.120 --> 1:42:22.720 there are a lot of questionable decisions made in lenses 1:42:22.840 --> 1:42:27.919 of acceptance that I don't necessarily think are the greatest. 1:42:28.040 --> 1:42:33.160 Perhaps also, apparently El Fanning was in talks to be 1:42:33.680 --> 1:42:34.200 the child. 1:42:34.640 --> 1:42:35.040 Yeah. 1:42:35.120 --> 1:42:39.639 The Fanning sisters are so iconic, Like, it is wild, 1:42:39.720 --> 1:42:42.280 how I forget that El Fanning. I think she may 1:42:42.320 --> 1:42:46.679 have recently turned thirty, which is wild because I cannot 1:42:46.800 --> 1:42:49.280 know she's twenty eight. I can't conceive of a world 1:42:49.479 --> 1:42:51.960 in which Elf Fanning is not is doing three movies 1:42:51.960 --> 1:42:53.040 a year. It's wild. 1:42:53.800 --> 1:42:55.519 I also I am just like, is she not still 1:42:55.560 --> 1:42:56.080 a child? 1:42:57.000 --> 1:42:57.040 No? 1:42:57.680 --> 1:42:58.320 I guess not. 1:42:58.720 --> 1:43:00.800 She's not many for an Oscar less year, Oh my 1:43:00.840 --> 1:43:02.400 gosh for sentimental value. 1:43:02.560 --> 1:43:03.679 Oh yeah, good movie. 1:43:03.520 --> 1:43:06.360 Which I saw, And she was very clearly an adult 1:43:06.360 --> 1:43:09.320 in that movie. So I don't know what I'm talking 1:43:09.360 --> 1:43:13.960 about anyway. Ollie, thank you so much for joining us 1:43:14.000 --> 1:43:16.599 for this discussion and giving us an excuse to finally 1:43:16.600 --> 1:43:17.360 watch this movie. 1:43:17.680 --> 1:43:19.599 Yes, thank you, thank you for having me. 1:43:19.840 --> 1:43:24.320 Tell us what you'd like to plug where people can 1:43:24.520 --> 1:43:25.880 follow your work, etc. 1:43:26.680 --> 1:43:29.120 Yeah. I think I've talked a lot about film Slop, 1:43:29.280 --> 1:43:32.679 but film Slop is my child. It is a film 1:43:32.680 --> 1:43:35.400 review site that I kind of started because I used 1:43:35.439 --> 1:43:37.760 to freelance and I liked writing about movies, but I 1:43:37.800 --> 1:43:39.679 never felt like I was writing things in my own voice. 1:43:40.280 --> 1:43:42.559 And now it just become a space where you can 1:43:42.560 --> 1:43:45.439 engage with movies in the same way that kind of 1:43:45.479 --> 1:43:49.280 The Fall does, where our ethos is blending personal narrative 1:43:49.320 --> 1:43:52.160 and films. As an editor, I don't really care about 1:43:52.320 --> 1:43:54.559 what you thought of the technical craft of the movie. 1:43:54.560 --> 1:43:58.439 I care more about where it exists within the lived 1:43:58.439 --> 1:44:02.559 experience of yourself. So yeah, if anyone ever wants a 1:44:02.600 --> 1:44:05.720 starting point in terms of writing or interviews, are kind 1:44:05.720 --> 1:44:08.360 of getting into the world of film journalism and wants 1:44:08.360 --> 1:44:11.120 to build a portfolio, we are very happy to work 1:44:11.160 --> 1:44:14.120 with you. And yeah, and then I think the other 1:44:14.120 --> 1:44:16.400 thing I would like to promote is my sister runs 1:44:16.439 --> 1:44:20.360 a human rights foundation based on in the Middle East 1:44:20.479 --> 1:44:23.920 called t I m EP Time Up. So if any 1:44:23.960 --> 1:44:27.640 of you are fans of human rights. That is a 1:44:27.680 --> 1:44:29.920 place to go. She's doing cool things and she has 1:44:29.960 --> 1:44:32.800 my older sister, so it would be bad of me 1:44:32.960 --> 1:44:35.200 to not mention it at every opportunity that. 1:44:35.160 --> 1:44:39.680 I got so cool and you're yeah, everyone, check out 1:44:39.680 --> 1:44:42.600 film slap. You're a great writer. I'm like, I just 1:44:43.160 --> 1:44:45.799 love following along and check. 1:44:45.640 --> 1:44:49.679 Out all these interview with a with a certain couple 1:44:49.880 --> 1:44:52.320 people named Caitlin and Jamie. 1:44:52.800 --> 1:44:53.000 Yeah. 1:44:53.200 --> 1:44:57.040 Check out we are film slop fil m s l 1:44:57.080 --> 1:45:01.360 o P on Instagram and filmslop dot com on the internet. 1:45:01.920 --> 1:45:03.519 Yy sorry, you can find. 1:45:03.400 --> 1:45:06.360 Us and you can find us in all the normal 1:45:06.400 --> 1:45:11.439 places on Instagram as well as on our Patreon aka 1:45:11.560 --> 1:45:15.320 maatreon patreon dot com. Slash The Bechdel Cast five dollars 1:45:15.400 --> 1:45:18.960 a month gets you access to two new episodes a 1:45:19.000 --> 1:45:21.879 month on a theme of sometimes Yours Sometimes are Choosing, 1:45:22.720 --> 1:45:25.880 as well as a back log of over two hundred 1:45:25.880 --> 1:45:29.640 bonus episodes going back nearly I think eight years now. 1:45:29.960 --> 1:45:32.120 And keep your eyes peeled because we'll be announcing tour 1:45:32.200 --> 1:45:33.040 dates very soon. 1:45:33.760 --> 1:45:42.040 Yes, yeah, And with that Google googly googly be gone, 1:45:42.560 --> 1:45:45.560 bye bye bye. 1:45:47.080 --> 1:45:50.439 The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia. Hosted and 1:45:50.560 --> 1:45:52.760 produced by Me Jamie Loftus and. 1:45:52.800 --> 1:45:56.559 Me Caitlyn Dorante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie 1:45:56.600 --> 1:45:57.719 Lichtermann and. 1:45:57.760 --> 1:46:00.000 Edited by Caitlyn Dorante. Ever heard of Them? 1:46:00.600 --> 1:46:04.040 That's Me and our logo and merch and all of 1:46:04.040 --> 1:46:07.800 our artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever 1:46:07.840 --> 1:46:08.280 heard of her? 1:46:08.479 --> 1:46:11.479 Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way, 1:46:11.600 --> 1:46:13.400 was composed by Mike Kaplan. 1:46:13.240 --> 1:46:15.520 With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski. 1:46:15.920 --> 1:46:20.360 Iconic and especial thanks to the one and only Aristotle Ascevedo. 1:46:20.920 --> 1:46:24.679 For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash 1:46:24.720 --> 1:46:25.520 Spectelcast