1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: the future of this show. 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest 6 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 7 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else. 8 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please 9 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 10 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, 11 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 12 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent 13 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: news media, and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 14 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: dot com. 15 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: A new movie titled October eighth is out which reports 16 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 2: to track the rise of anti Semitism in America, featuring 17 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: Israeli Propaganda's Noah Tishbee, Disgrace professor Shi Devidi, and crazy 18 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: eyed former Shinbet fanatic most sab Hasan Yusef. It is 19 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: this clip though, of Cheryl Sandberg, a Facebook and corporate 20 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: feminism fame that went viral online. 21 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 3: I was on a walk with one of my closest 22 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 3: friends who's not Jewish, and just out of nowhere, not 23 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 3: expecting to say this. What came out of my mouth 24 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 3: was will you hide me? Like if it comes to that, 25 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 3: will you hide me and my family? And like, do 26 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 3: I really think that's gonna happen in the United States? 27 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 4: No? 28 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 3: And it was interesting because she didn't really know what 29 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 3: I was talking about. 30 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 5: She what I mean, hide you? 31 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 3: And I explained that there are these righteous people that 32 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 3: hid Jews. This is the story of Anne Frank And 33 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 3: then of course she said, oh, I know what you mean, 34 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 3: but any Jew would have known what I meant immediately. 35 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: The movie, which depicts Jews as the ultimate victims and 36 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: dishonestly conflates anti Zionism with anti Semitism, drops at a 37 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: time when untold tens of thousands of Palestinians have been slaughtered. 38 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: Israel has reinstituted a complete siage on Gaza. 39 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 5: And you're in our own country. 40 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: Students were being kidnapped off the street for the crime 41 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: of opposing this ongoing US backed genocide. Reacting to this context, 42 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: Andy Sandberg clip Sam Adler Bell put it quite blunt, 43 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 2: bluntly quote, can we just be honest about this for 44 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: an effing second. The current government of the US is 45 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: using the protection of Jews to disappear people from our 46 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: streets for their political speech. On your behalf, you got 47 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: what you wanted. They're the Nazis. You're a collaborator now. 48 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: Belle later clarified in case there was any doubt he 49 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: was specifically singling out Sandberg here, which makes sense given 50 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: her prominent role in pushing atrocity propaganda that has been 51 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: used to justify Israeli war crimes, not to mention how 52 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: insulting it is to all of us to watch a 53 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: billionaire expect us to see her personally as a victim 54 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 2: while an entire helpless population is being starved. His core point, though, 55 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 2: is worth contemplating further, because he rightly points out the 56 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: way that liberal language around campus safety and protection of 57 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: Jews is being used to push the bleeding edge of 58 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 2: Trump's authoritarian powergrap a scheme that seeks to silence all 59 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 2: critics and hobble all political adversaries, not just among immigrants, 60 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: and not only with regards to Israel. Many of us 61 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: watched with horror last week the video of a student 62 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: from Turkey abducted off the street while stepping out to 63 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: visit some friends by a mob of masked plain closed 64 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: state thugs. Her crime here publishing an op ed in 65 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: the student newspaper that happened to sort of be critical 66 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: of Israel. Now these scenes have been playing out on 67 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: campuses across the entire country. Green card holder Makmud Khalil 68 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: was taken first from Columbia. We covered that extensively. Another 69 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: Columbia student and Green card holder yuinsau Chung. She was 70 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: able to get a court order blocking her arrest. She's 71 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: been in the US since she was seven years old. 72 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 2: Bought her consori. A Georgetown University post doctoral fellow was 73 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: arrested seemingly over his wife's Palestinian ancestry. He's now in 74 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: custody in Texas. An international Minnesota student was arrested by ICE, 75 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: the details of which we actually still don't even know, 76 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: but it's suspected to be part of this state crackdown 77 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: on Israel dissent. That's not a complete list, and pretty 78 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: soon we're not going to be able to track all 79 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: of these instances in the specific details. Secretary of State 80 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: Mark Rubio has said that hundreds of students are already 81 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: being targeted by ICE for similar thought crimes. 82 00:03:59,120 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 4: See. 83 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 6: I think it's stupid for any country in the world 84 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 6: to welcome people into their country. They're going to go 85 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 6: to your universities as visitors. They're visitors and say, I'm 86 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 6: going to your universities to start a riot. I'm going 87 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 6: to your universities to take over a library and harass people. 88 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 6: I don't care what movement you're involved in. We do 89 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 6: it every day. Every time I find one of these lunatics, 90 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 6: I take away their visas. 91 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 5: You're saying, he could be more than three hundred. 92 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 6: I mean, at some point, I hope we run out 93 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 6: because we've gotten rid of all of them. 94 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: Protecting Zionism was only the tip of the spear. However, 95 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: these efforts are now branching out beyond Israel to any 96 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: sort of speech or ideological inclination that this regime objects to. 97 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: A University of Alabama student was arrested with no charges, 98 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 2: no seeming connection to any of the protest activity. He 99 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: was Iranian, however, so I suppose that made him automatically suspect. Somehow, 100 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: Ken Klippenstein got hold of a leaked memo mandating all 101 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: current and returning visa holders be subjected to an ideological 102 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: test through spying on social media in an attempt to 103 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: identify any non conforming views. As kennotes, the directive seems 104 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 2: to be aimed at pro Palestine sentiment, but it uses 105 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: broad language about quote conduct, that there's a hostile attitude 106 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: toward US citizens or US culture, including government institutions or 107 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 2: founding principles. One of those founding principles, of course, is 108 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: freedom of speech, but I don't think they've got that 109 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 2: one in mind at the current moment. As part of 110 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: this purge, the TEO scoops that ICE is manually changing 111 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: the immigration status of students in a database normally maintained 112 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 2: by universities. Now visas allow students to enter the country, 113 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: status allows them to stay, and it's dependent on things 114 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: like being good standing at the school, taking a certain 115 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 2: number of courses, etc. ICE is changing student statuses and 116 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: in many instances not even notifying students, So we can't 117 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: really say what sort of wrong think they are being 118 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: targeted for. Nor is the crackdown only aimed at immigrants. 119 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: Supposed anti Semitism is being used to control entire universities, 120 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 2: and pro Palestine protests are being routinely described by top 121 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 2: law enforcement officials as terrorism, with major potential implications for 122 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 2: anyone citizen or non who would want to participate. The 123 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: entire apparatus of the state is being marshaled to enforce 124 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 2: conformity and compliance. Targeting immigrant protest leaders while waving the 125 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 2: flag of Jewish safety opened the door to an ever 126 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: expanding assault on all of our rights. Now in retrospect, 127 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: I guess it was predictable that Zionism would be the 128 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 2: trojan horse for ushering in this fascistic program. After all, 129 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: liberal politicians and Zionists pioneered the use of this sort 130 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 2: of language about Jewish safety in order to cover up 131 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: their own defense of the Israeli Jewish supremacist ethno state, 132 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: an explicitly fascist project. How else could they cloak their 133 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: support for a regime that completely undermines their supposed commitment 134 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: to equality, tolerance, to human rights. White supremacy, of course, 135 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: that's a no. Black nationalism also a no. But Jewish 136 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: supremacy nearly all democratic elites would defend it to the death. 137 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 2: Why well, In addition to the well organized and very 138 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 2: influential Israel lobby is Zereel aids Us Empire. 139 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 5: It's always served. 140 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: As a critical strategic beachhead for battles in the Middle East. 141 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: Over communism, or over oil, or whatever ends our empire 142 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: wanted to accomplish. It was also easy to feel after 143 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: the Holocaust, of course, that the Jewish people were the 144 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: ultimate victim group, deserving of this special status. Now this 145 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: sense was deepened by our own national guilt of denying 146 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: entry to Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazi regime. For many 147 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: older Democratic officials, Israel, with its Kibetsim and dominant Labor party, 148 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: also coded liberal lefty even until its modern hard right turn. 149 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: As for the Democratic base, their minds just largely glossed over, 150 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: I think the central contradictions to the extent they really 151 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: thought that much about. 152 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 5: It at all. 153 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: Jews deserved a safe refuge, did they not? Both parties 154 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: in the media they all seem to agree, and Palestinians 155 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: they were allowed scarcely any. 156 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 5: Voice at all. 157 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: So their suffering and the occupation at the hands of 158 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: Israel it was pretty easy to invisibilize. Today, though, due 159 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: to sustained attention to the genocidal assault on a trap 160 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: population that Israel's been committing with our government's full backing, 161 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: there is now a profound split between the Democratic base 162 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: and their elected leaders. I suppose for your average Democrat 163 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: watching Israel, the supposed victim reduced Gaza to complete rubble 164 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: with full backing from the most powerful military on Earth. Well, 165 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: you might say that it kind of heightened the contradictions. 166 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: For the first time. GALP has found that a plurality 167 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: of Democrats have more sympathy for Palestinians than for Israelis, 168 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: by a margin of forty nine. 169 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 5: To thirty eight. 170 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: But unlike the base, the vast majority of Democratic electeds 171 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 2: have remained committed to warping liberal values to defend their 172 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 2: support of a violent ethno state. Think of Biden's frequent 173 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: rejoinder that without Israel, no Jew on Earth is safe, 174 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: or Kamala's full throat a condemnation of pro Palestine protests. 175 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 2: That this ideological framing was already pervasive and embraced by 176 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,359 Speaker 2: liberal elites made it very easy for Trump to weaponize 177 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: in his authoritarian powercrat. Democratic Party had already conceded under 178 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: Biden that protesters were criminal hamas terrorist supporters, leaving party 179 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: elites only with appeals to do process to push back 180 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: against this authoritarian onslaught. Now, casual observer could be left 181 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: wondering why Democrats would care so much about keeping these 182 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: students in the country if they're such. 183 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 5: Terrible, terrorist loving people. 184 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: After all, you'll Professor Jason Stanley, himself a Jew and 185 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 2: a scholar of fascism, describes well how Trump has taken 186 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: this opening, wielded for himself the language of safety and 187 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: is using Jewish people in his words as the quote 188 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: sledgehammer for fascism. 189 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 7: Take a listen, what are the most toxic anti Semitic tropes? Well, 190 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 7: Jews control the institutions. This is absolutely reinforcing this. Any 191 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 7: young American is going to think, remember what happened when 192 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 7: they took down the world's greatest university system on behalf 193 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 7: of Jewish safety. And this will go down in history books. 194 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 7: The history of this era will say that Jewish people 195 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 7: were the sledge hammer for fascism. So if we don't speak, 196 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 7: if we American Jews do not speak out against this, 197 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 7: this will be a grim history chapter in our history 198 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 7: as Americans. It's the first time in my life as 199 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 7: an American that I have been fearful of our status 200 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 7: as equal Americans. Not because of the protests on campus, which, 201 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 7: as I said, we had a lot of Jewish students 202 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 7: in them, but because we are suddenly at the center 203 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 7: of politics of US politics, it's never good to be 204 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 7: in the crosshairs for US, and we are being used 205 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 7: to destroy democracy. 206 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: Right now today, Zionist groups are compiling hit list of 207 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: students for ICE to target for deportation. Betarre USA claims 208 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: to have sent the Trump administration thousands of names of targets, 209 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 2: and they don't limit themselves by the way to visa 210 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: or even green card holders. That group posted quote, we 211 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 2: told you we've been working on deportations and will continue 212 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 2: to do so. Expect naturalized citizens to start being picked 213 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 2: up within the month you heard it here. First, those 214 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: who support jihad and intefada and originate in terrorist states 215 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 2: will be sent back to those lands. Some liberal Zionists 216 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 2: are starting to become uncomfortable with what is now being 217 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: done in their names. Chaalban Fram tweeted this response to 218 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: Betar's glee over sticking ICE on student protesters, quote, the 219 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: amount of damage these people are doing to Jews and 220 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: to Zionists is irmeasurable. Free Press contributor Eli Lake objected 221 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 2: to Mahmud Khalil's deportation on Twitter, saying quote, as much 222 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: as I despise campus solidarity with baby stranglers. 223 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 5: I love American values. 224 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 2: For now, these posts they'll welcome fail to realize that 225 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 2: their own ideology is helping to grease the skids for 226 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: Trump's crackdown. Betar is the logical end result of the 227 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 2: zero sum ideology of Zionism, in which the very existence 228 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: of Palestinians poses an existential threat to Israel as a 229 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: Jewish supremacist state. Mass deportations of students like Khalil are 230 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: going to be easy to get away with if you 231 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 2: succeed in convincing the public that they truly are in 232 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 2: league with quote unquote baby stranglers. And to return to 233 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 2: Sheryl Sandberg, how can you not realize that in your 234 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 2: rush to imagine yourself a billionaire as a victim here 235 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 2: in America in some sort of grave danger, you are 236 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: feeding the exact narrative which is putting students. 237 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 5: In actual danger. 238 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 2: Your anti Semitism panic is helping Trump execute on an 239 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 2: authoritarian crackdown at this point. If you can't see that, yeah, 240 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 2: I think it's fair to call you a collaborator. America's 241 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: defense of a violent authoritarian state is being used to 242 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 2: import that violence and that authoritarianism back here at home, 243 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: and this treacherous road cloaked in the language of safety, 244 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: makes all of US, citizen and immigrant, Jew and non 245 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: Jew alike much less safe in Sager. I know this 246 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 2: isn't the entirety of what's going on. 247 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: Here, but if you look at the art, and if 248 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become 249 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com. 250 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: Very excited to be joined by two fantastic journalists. We 251 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: have Jonathan Allen, who senior national politics reporter for NBC News, 252 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 2: and Amy Parnes, senior correspondent for The Hill and more 253 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: importantly for today, authors co authors of a new book 254 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: called Fight Inside, the Wildest Battle for the White House, 255 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: and it tells the inside story of everything from concerns 256 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 2: about Biden, biden dropout, debate night, Nancy Pelosi, Obama's involvement, 257 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 2: Trump's reaction to the assassination Kamala Harris, going in, what 258 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: they thought about whether or not they were going to 259 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 2: be victorious on election night. So super excited to dig 260 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 2: into all of that with. 261 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 5: Both of you guys. Welcome, Thank you. 262 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, so Amy, let me go ahead and 263 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: start with you. Well, can start chronologically here, So leading 264 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: into that now infamous debate with Joe Biden where he 265 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 2: performs catastrophically and it ends up in you know, a 266 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: push and an eventual successful push to get him out 267 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 2: of the race. 268 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 5: Were there concerns. 269 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: Among his aides about his ability to stand for a 270 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: second term? What sort of things were going on on 271 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: the inside to keep the public from knowledge of what 272 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: his present condition was. 273 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 8: I don't think there were any real deep concerns from 274 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 8: his aids. I mean, I know that there was concern 275 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 8: a little bit of concern about the debate, but almost 276 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 8: you know, they just didn't feel like Trump was worthy 277 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 8: of a debate. It's not that they thought that Biden 278 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 8: couldn't handle it. But of course, as we report in 279 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 8: the book, there is a lot of there's a lot 280 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 8: that has happened behind the scenes, people looking at things. 281 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 8: We detail one anecdote about Eric Swalwell, someone who ran 282 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 8: against Joe Biden in twenty twenty, someone that he's not 283 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 8: He's a rank and file member, but he's been more 284 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 8: public than that. Joe Biden doesn't recognize him at a 285 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 8: congressional picnic. People had moments with the president that weren't 286 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 8: very flattering to him, we should say, And so we 287 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 8: think that President Biden at the time, you know, he 288 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 8: held a lot of responsibility for the outcome of this election. 289 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the central 290 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: themes really of your book. We have the moment here, 291 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: we should relive and then we'll get to some of 292 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: the fallout. Let's take a listen to that debate covid. 293 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 9: I excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to 294 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 9: do with Look, if we finally beat medicare, thank you 295 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 9: President Biden, President Trump. Well, he's right, he did beat medicare, 296 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 9: beat it to death. 297 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that was it. That was the moment. It 298 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: was almost what fifteen minutes or so, it was completely undeniable, 299 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: and it was even more downhill from there. John, Can 300 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: you just go into some of the background and the 301 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: immediate aftermath of that debate and what that was like 302 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: here in Washington with all the phone lines, and who 303 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: decided to finally get him out of the race. 304 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. Let me start with during the debate. We opened 305 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 4: the book in Nancy Pelosi's condo, She's watching this debate 306 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 4: by herself. She had actually urged Biden not to debate Trump. 307 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 4: I think she had a sneaking suspicion that it would 308 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 4: have been difficult for Biden to beat Trump. So she's 309 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 4: watching alone. We do sort of a three sixty of 310 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 4: all these sort of influential people, take them inside their 311 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 4: houses while they're watching this debate with concern, many of 312 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 4: them not going to the traditional debate watch parties because 313 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 4: of that wingering concern. And then Joe Biden walks out, 314 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, the text message chains and 315 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 4: the Democratic parties start lighting up. Just like you, guys know, 316 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 4: I'm sure you were hearing from friends, from people you interview. 317 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 4: What they were thinking is the debate's going on. This 318 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 4: is going on throughout the Democratic universe. This incredible just 319 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 4: sort of disillusionment, concern, fear. It was so bad that 320 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 4: one source we spoke to who had talked to Nancy 321 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 4: Pelosi that night, said her concern was that the party 322 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 4: was going to rush to get Biden out so fast 323 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 4: that they could only end up with Kamala Harris as 324 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 4: the nominee. Pelosi had concerns about Harris certainly had concerns 325 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 4: about Biden, and when you ask about you know what 326 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 4: ends up happening. Joe Biden gets choked off by his donors, 327 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 4: makes it more difficult for him to move forward. I 328 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 4: think a lot of the Democratic elected officials, I know 329 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 4: a lot of the Democratic elected officials were scared to 330 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 4: say that they wanted to, you know, say publicly that 331 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 4: they wanted him to get out, because their own bases 332 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 4: were split over that question. So you know, no matter 333 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 4: what they say about it, they end up alienating half 334 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 4: the people. Pelosi just kept pushing it along behind the scenes. 335 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 4: He saw her repeatedly go on television and sort of 336 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 4: say say things that encouraged him to get out. You know, 337 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 4: Joe Biden needs to make a decision. She said that 338 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 4: three days after he said affirmatively that he was going 339 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 4: to stay in the race. She wanted to see an 340 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 4: open primary. Barack Obama wanted to see an open primary. 341 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 4: They were in communication with each other. We take you 342 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 4: inside in this book to Pelosi's conversations with Joe Biden himself. 343 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 4: But basically there's this, I think this divide in the 344 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 4: Democratic Party that happens between the people who think only 345 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 4: Joe Biden can win and the people who think that 346 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 4: Joe Biden is the only person who couldn't possibly win. 347 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 4: And what's important, I think for readers, and you'll really 348 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,479 Speaker 4: get the senses you read it if you're looking forward 349 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 4: to twenty twenty eight, is you get a sense of 350 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 4: what it is the politicians and the political establishment are 351 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 4: willing to let you hear as a voter versus you know, 352 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 4: what they're really thinking. And getting inside that and understanding 353 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 4: how that works so that you can make good decisions 354 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 4: as a voter or a don or an activist in 355 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 4: the future, I think is really important. 356 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 2: I think that's a really great point. Amy talked to 357 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 2: us about some of those things that they wouldn't say publicly. 358 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 2: One of them was a lot of people, including Barack 359 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: Obama and Nancy Pelosi. Biden aids had concerns about Kamala Harris, 360 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 2: which is like they really, I don't know why you 361 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: put her on the ticket in the first place. If 362 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 2: you know this is the person you're supposed to hand 363 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 2: the baton off you, and you have all of these 364 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 2: great political concerns about her, But you know, talk about 365 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: that and how that played out in her rush to 366 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 2: get Biden to endorse her, to try to close the 367 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: door on any potential competitors, and also some of the 368 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 2: machinations behind the scenes with Pelosi and Obama, specifically to 369 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 2: try to push more towards an open process because of 370 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 2: their concerns about her. 371 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean they were, as John just mentioned, they 372 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 8: were in touch Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama a couple 373 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 8: of times, and we report about that in great detail 374 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 8: in the book. But they both thought, particularly Barack Obama, 375 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 8: former President Barack Obama, that he didn't think that she 376 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 8: could win. And we spoke to people very very close 377 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 8: to him who say this, and there were major concerns. 378 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 8: So I think they were doing a quiet sort of 379 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 8: lobbying effort to see, you know what, to see what 380 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 8: the mood was and whether there was enough support for it. Certainly, 381 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 8: I think Barack Obama was hearing from some donors, and 382 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 8: I know Nancy Pelosi was too, that Kamala Harris couldn't win. 383 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 8: And so we take you behind the scenes and we 384 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 8: show you what was happening and what transpired. And I 385 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 8: think that they they kept doing this up until the 386 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 8: final minutes of you know, right after Joe Biden endorsed 387 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 8: Kamala Harris I think they were still calling around. It's 388 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 8: why I think Barack Obama kept his powder dry for 389 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 8: several days. He wanted to see how all of this 390 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 8: would play out. But he had major, major concerns. 391 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 5: What were the concern What were the nature of the concerns? 392 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 8: I mean that the fact that she just wouldn't be 393 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 8: able to win. I think that they all saw her 394 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 8: as a week or vice president. I don't think that 395 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 8: they felt like Joe Biden had really championed her enough 396 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 8: that she was coming in kind of ill prepared to 397 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 8: run as president. Certainly they looked back at her last campaign, 398 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 8: I'm sure, and made that, but you know, they were 399 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 8: pretty open behind the scenes about how they felt, and 400 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 8: we report a lot about that in this book, town guys. 401 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 4: If I could jump in here for just one second, 402 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 4: I think one of the things that was really that's really 403 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 4: illuminating is just how much Joe Biden and his team 404 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 4: tried to do to undermine Kamala Harris in order to 405 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 4: keep him above water after that debate. You know, they 406 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 4: just kept pushing her down. His aides were talking to 407 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 4: donors and telling them, you know, basically threatening them with 408 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 4: Kamala Harris saying, if you keep pushing on him to 409 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 4: get out, you're gonna end up with Kamala Harrison. She's 410 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 4: going to be terrible. And some of these people were 411 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 4: idiotic enough to send these messages electronically, so there's records preserved. 412 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 4: You you can read about that in the book. You know 413 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 4: what Pelosi is doing behind the scenes, what Obama's doing 414 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 4: behind the scenes. All of this is basically an argument 415 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 4: against the only person who was likely to win the 416 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 4: nomination if Biden got out right, The idea that the 417 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 4: Democratic Party is going to somehow skip over Kamala Harris 418 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 4: given all that we know about the Democratic Party is 419 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 4: a non starter. So in order to survive, Biden starts 420 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 4: knocking Harris internally. He's trying to armbar internally, and his 421 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 4: team is trying to do that. We have this great 422 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 4: scene in the book, even to the point that a 423 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 4: lot of this is ego too, when Biden eventually hands 424 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 4: off uh, you know, and says to Harris over the 425 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 4: phone that he's going to get out. She has to. 426 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 4: She asked him for his endorsement, and he he kind 427 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 4: of says, well, maybe, like you know, Wednesday, maybe a 428 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 4: few days from now, and She's like, no, I need 429 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 4: you to endorse me now, because if you don't do that, 430 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 4: there's going to be an open convention and it's going 431 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 4: to be you know, a crap show for lack of 432 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 4: a better term. And they go back and forth. There 433 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 4: are multiple phone calls never before reported, this effort by 434 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 4: Joe Biden to sort of, you know, kind of extract this, 435 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 4: you know, a pleading, a begging from Kamala Harris because 436 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 4: he wanted to take a little bit of a victory 437 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 4: lap after he got out and she of coore needed 438 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 4: him to get in immediately. 439 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 7: It's crazy. 440 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, John, can you wait? 441 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 5: These people think, Yeah, I are so delusional. 442 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy. And you know, I think the craziest part, 443 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: guys of the book to me was about the No 444 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: Daylight moment, where he not only after he drives, he's 445 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: stage managing her from behind from a position of power, 446 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: and he's like, no Daylight, you can't put me down. 447 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: There's no distance, and this leads to her some of 448 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: the most disastrous moments of her campaign. So John, you 449 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: can start and amy and follow up on this. I mean, 450 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: I just thought it was an insane dynamic and such 451 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: excellent reporting also from the two of you. 452 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 4: Thank you. You know, it's the sort of mantra that 453 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 4: you have with your vice presidential candidate. You know, they 454 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 4: go back to twenty twenty with her running with him. 455 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 4: No daylight between us, you know, try to make sure 456 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 4: the vice presidential candidate's on the same page. What is 457 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 4: insane is that now that he's out, he is telling 458 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 4: her all the time, no daylight between us. You're not 459 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 4: allowed to run your own campaign. You still work for me. Basically, 460 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 4: he says no daylight kid to her on the day 461 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 4: of the debate that she has with Trump. Amazing that 462 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 4: he's calling her kid at this point, right, Bill, But 463 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 4: there really was a belief in his mind that she 464 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 4: shouldn't be able to win the presidency or wouldn't be 465 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 4: able to win the presidency if she distanced herself from him. 466 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 4: And of course, as we all know, she needed to 467 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 4: distance herself from him because number one, he had become 468 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 4: less popular and number two, the agenda had become less popular. 469 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 4: She needed to at least be able to point to 470 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 4: the American people and say, here are a couple of 471 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 4: things I'm doing differently. Here a couple of things I 472 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 4: would have done differently. And you know, look, part of 473 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 4: this is Kamala Harris's loyalty and in politics that's seen, 474 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 4: I think by a lot of people as a very 475 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 4: good character trait. You know that she was. It was 476 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 4: difficult for her to be disloyal to somebody who'd been 477 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 4: good to her. And at the same time, if the 478 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 4: Democrats wanted to win, she absolutely had to break from him, 479 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 4: and he did not want to let her do that, 480 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 4: did not want to let her win without being tied 481 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 4: completely to him. And that the ego and the narcissism 482 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 4: and the selfishness of that is something that I think 483 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 4: for people who really loved both Joe Biden in twenty 484 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 4: twenty and thought that he was the goat, the greatest 485 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 4: of all time, now look at him and say he's 486 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 4: more of a lowercase goat. 487 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 8: Not to mention, I mean she had to inherit his staff. 488 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 8: You know, she brought in a few of her close aids. 489 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 8: They were relegated to our room, off to the side. 490 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 8: They were never really fully embraced. I think that they 491 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 8: all felt a little like they were the jv team 492 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 8: and the Biden team was the varsity team. So there 493 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 8: was that sense, and we get into that a lot 494 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 8: in this book. There's a chapter called I won't say it, 495 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 8: but It's Effery, and it goes into all the civil 496 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 8: war that it was essentially playing out inside the campaign 497 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 8: after the switch happens. 498 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: Well, because some of these people that are on the 499 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 2: campaign are probably the same people that were leaking that 500 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris could never win and what a terrible candidate 501 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: she was, etc. 502 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 5: Etc. 503 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 2: And now they're on the team, supposedly, you know, trying 504 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 2: to help or be. 505 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 5: Able to win. 506 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: Amy Just to wrap up here, you know, Tim Walls 507 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,239 Speaker 2: made this comment all paraphrase about how you know, he 508 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 2: didn't think they were ever really ahead and they were 509 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: playing this sort of like prevent defense, and he's like, 510 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 2: I don't know why we needed to take more risks 511 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 2: because I feel like we were always behind. Did they 512 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 2: have a like, what did their internal say? Did they 513 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 2: have a chance to win? Did they think they were 514 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: going to win going into election day? 515 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 8: They had a chance, They had a big chance, and 516 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 8: they were both shocked. And we take you inside the room. 517 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 8: We take you inside into what Kamala Harris is thinking 518 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 8: and feeling as she is told that she has lost 519 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 8: the race and is losing the race in the final 520 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 8: hours of the campaign, and Tim Walls is just as shocked. 521 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 8: He's sitting in the Mayflower Hotel. We also take you 522 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 8: inside that room where he just can't believe it. They 523 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 8: were gas lit, they were led to believe that they 524 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 8: were going to win. And the end will shock. 525 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: You, all right, the end will shock you. Good teaser 526 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: for the book. And by the way, guys, we focus 527 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: on the Harris Biden piece of this, but you all 528 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 2: also go into the Trump part. I know you've got 529 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: an anecdote in here about how Biden says he will 530 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 2: never forgive Nancy Pelosi for her role in pushing him out. 531 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: So there's all kinds of fascinating tidbits here. And really 532 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: appreciate you guys taking the time out to talk to 533 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: us about. 534 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 7: All of it. 535 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: Now, you guys, we'll have a link in the description 536 00:26:58,359 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: to the book. Everybody should go and buy it. We'll 537 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: see guys later than Thank you joining us now is 538 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: Ben Wickler. He's a chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic Party. 539 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: On the verge of a major election Supreme Court election. There, Ben, 540 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. 541 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 10: Grateful to be with you. This is go time in 542 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 10: the biggest election in the first two thirds of this year, 543 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 10: and it's potentially going to come down to the wire 544 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 10: in the next about thirty two hours. 545 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: Okay, So obviously Elon Musk has been a major part 546 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: of this current election now so far he's been actually 547 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: campaigning on the ground in the state, subject to legal 548 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: challenges and more. 549 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 5: We have a clip of that and we're going to 550 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 5: get your reaction. 551 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. 552 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 10: Like shocking, Really it's insane. 553 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 9: Yeah, it's really wild. 554 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 7: So, I mean it was inevitable that is, at least. 555 00:27:53,000 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 10: A few Sarus operatives would be in the audience. Costs 556 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 10: to George sale out to George from being. 557 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: Youus say us, say us, said us. 558 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 7: Say so. 559 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: Ben Elon has turned himself into a bit of a 560 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: lightning rod there in Wisconsin. He's pumped some twenty million 561 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: dollars into the race. As I understand, you guys have 562 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: plenty of money on your side too. 563 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 5: Can you tell us what it tells? 564 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: Tell us about how it reflects the national political dynamics 565 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: right now on the ground. 566 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 10: Absolutely so. Elin Musk has now poured in twenty million 567 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 10: through his superpacks and the organizations three million to the 568 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 10: Wisconsin Republican Party is given up three million dollars in checks, 569 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 10: and he has these petitions where anyone who signs gets 570 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 10: one hundred bucks. We don't know, you know, if ten 571 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 10: thousand people have signed, that's another million dollars right there. 572 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 10: If it's one hundred thousand, that's ten million. He's poured 573 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 10: in vastly more money than any donor has ever put 574 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 10: into any election judicial election in the history of the country, 575 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 10: many times, much much more than all the other billionaire 576 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 10: donors on both sides of this race combined about ten 577 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 10: times as much as thirty times or fifteen times as 578 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 10: much as Elon Musk, who mentioned. Susan Crawford's campaign is 579 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 10: mostly funded vast majority by the more than one hundred 580 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 10: and seventy five thousand people who've made small dollar donations, 581 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 10: and that's been enough to allow her to go toe 582 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 10: to toe with Elon Musk's groups and Brad Shimmel on 583 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 10: the air because Susan Crawford's actually inspired people who believe 584 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 10: in democracy. Wisconsin used to have campaign finance rules. Those 585 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 10: were rolled back by Republicans and defended by Brad Schimmel. 586 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 10: The Republican candidate in the race. He defended the attacks 587 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 10: on campaign finance in Wisconsin. He defended the gerrymanderd maps, 588 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 10: which are Elon Musk's giant obsession. He defended the abortion bands. 589 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 10: He's a big supporter of the abortion band passed in 590 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 10: eighteen forty nine before the Civil War that he wants 591 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 10: to snap back into place. He's running as a kind 592 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 10: of mega activist to be the deciding vote on the 593 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 10: state Supreme Court. This will determine the majority. So with 594 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 10: Susan Crawford, it's you know, integrity, an independent un and 595 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 10: someone who believes in democracy and freedom. With Brad Schimmel, 596 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 10: it is Elon Musk, Donald Trump rubber stamp. 597 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about the nature of 598 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 2: this race. First of all, it's worth noting for everybody. 599 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: Technically it is a nonpartisan race. But you know, as 600 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: you you're referring to them as the Democrat and Republican candidate. 601 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 2: I think that's fair enough because they you know, there's 602 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 2: a liberal candidate, there's a conservative candidate. Musk is all 603 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: in behind this conservative candidate. Help us understand, like why 604 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 2: this particular Supreme Court race is so important to him 605 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 2: because he has put himself at the center of this race. 606 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 2: My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong. A lot of 607 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: the ads that are being run on the Democratic or 608 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,239 Speaker 2: liberal side are about Elon Musk. So what is it 609 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: that has made him so interested in this particular Supreme 610 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: court seed in Wisconsin. 611 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 10: I think it's three reasons that kind of fell like Domino's. First, 612 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 10: his company, Tesla is suing Wisconsin about car dealership laws, 613 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 10: so we can sell Tesla's directly to people in the state. 614 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 10: So he would personally benefit from buying our state Supreme court, 615 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 10: just as he's personally benefiting from running the federal government 616 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 10: and giving himself giant contracts. So there's personal self financial 617 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 10: interest here. The second thing is the thing he talks 618 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 10: about all the time, which is that he wants to 619 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 10: lock in the Wisconsin congressional gerrymander. He said in his 620 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 10: town hall that this will determine control of the House 621 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 10: of Representatives in the United States, and that will determine 622 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 10: the future of the Trump agenda, and that will determine 623 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 10: the future of Western civilization. That's how he put it. 624 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 10: Wisconsin has hyperd gerrymannered congressional maps. Six of the eight 625 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 10: congressional seats are in Republican hands, and he wants to 626 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 10: make sure there's no review of whether that jerrymander is constitutional. 627 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 10: There's no lawsuit done the books about this now, but 628 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 10: he wants to lock in a jerrymander that guarantees Republican control. 629 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 10: So that is his stated reason, which itself is pretty repellent. 630 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 10: There's a third dimension here now, too, which is that 631 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 10: he's put his face on this race. So this is 632 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 10: now a referendum on whether Elon Musk should be able 633 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 10: to waltz into any election and buy the outcome by 634 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 10: someone who's corrupt and dedicated to doing whatever he wants. 635 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 10: If Must succeeds, then you know every ambitious mega politician 636 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 10: will be doing everything they can to kiss up to 637 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 10: Elon Musk, and he will plug his own in every 638 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 10: local election across the country, as he's apparently musing about doing. 639 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 10: If Susan Crawford wins, then we demonstrate that he does 640 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 10: not have the power that he wants everyone to think 641 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 10: that he has politically, and people might start really standing 642 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 10: up to him. So he has his own political power 643 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 10: at stake in this fight as well. 644 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 7: Ben. 645 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: I know you were involved in the DNC race. I'm 646 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: curious for your view generally of here of campaign finance, 647 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: as from what I see, we've got Reid Hoffman, a 648 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: couple of billionaires George Soros, as well as JB. Pritzker 649 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: who are involved on the Democratic side for the candidate 650 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: you're voicing support for here. So how do you reconcile 651 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: some of this billionaire talk with some of the billionaire 652 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: and intervention on the Democratic side as well. 653 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 10: That's pretty simple. It is in our party's platform that 654 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 10: we believe in campaign finance reform. We should go back 655 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 10: to public financing of judicial elections in Wisconsin, we should 656 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 10: overturn Citizens United. We don't believe in unilateral disarmament. So 657 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 10: we're going to fight with everything we've got to elect 658 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 10: people to office, especially you know, the offices that can 659 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 10: pass laws to change our campaign finance laws. What we 660 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 10: cannot allow is a situation where the richest person in 661 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 10: the world tramples in and by bringing overwhelming financial force 662 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 10: to bear, just buys whatever outcome he wants. And you know, 663 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 10: we're very clear at the Democratic Party of Wisconsin that 664 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 10: that plank in our platform is not for sale. We're 665 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 10: going to try to change these laws if folks are 666 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 10: elected who share these values, and on the Republican side, 667 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 10: they are on one hand changing the laws to allow 668 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 10: floods of money and on the other hand just doing 669 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 10: giant favors for whoever it is that you know pays 670 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 10: the piper, and that to me is a system of 671 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 10: corruption that should end. 672 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 2: Then one thing I wanted to get your sort of 673 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: read on as well is really, I think for the 674 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: first time I've certainly seen you have Democratic base voters 675 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 2: who are very upset with Democratic leaders Democratic leadership in 676 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: Washington is underwater with the Democratic base, and it's for 677 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 2: a really simple reason. They feel like they're not doing 678 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 2: enough to stand up to Trump and to stand up 679 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 2: to Elon Musk. So what are you hearing in Wisconsin 680 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 2: from the just sort of like normy Democrat rank and file, 681 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 2: And what would your advice be to that leadership in 682 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 2: Washington of how they can more effectively fight back against 683 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 2: an agenda that you know much of the country opposes. 684 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 10: There it comes up all the time across the state. 685 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 10: People want to fight back. They're crying out, they're pulling 686 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 10: their hair out, they feel like they're being punched in 687 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 10: the face. Every day by Musk and Trump, and they 688 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 10: want to punch back. And what we're trying to do 689 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 10: in wiscontent is show what that looks like. Susan Crawford 690 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 10: is in a Susan versus Goliath battle against the world's 691 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 10: richest man. She says on the stump, she'll tell her 692 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 10: story as a prosecutor, as a judge, as someone who 693 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 10: defended planned parenthood in the case Planned Parenthood versus Brad Shimmel, 694 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 10: and then she'll say, and now let me tell you 695 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 10: about my opponent, Elon Musk, and the room will light up. 696 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 10: And my hope is that when they see how Susan 697 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 10: Crawford has succeeded in defeating Musk, Trump and Brad Shimmel, 698 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 10: that that will energize Democrats everywhere to fight back. I think, 699 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 10: you know, across the country, Democrats should communicate everywhere all 700 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 10: the time. They should be on offense, and they should 701 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 10: link what Musk and Trump are doing to the harm 702 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 10: that it causes in people's lives, to the workers who 703 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 10: are laid off, to the people you know, cancer clinical 704 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 10: trials that are suddenly shut down who have now have 705 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 10: no hope for a cure, to the folks receiving Social Security, 706 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 10: who can't get their calls returned when they have an 707 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 10: emergency or the payments are coming through. This is stuff 708 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 10: that really matters to people, and Democrats should not be 709 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 10: scared of their shadow. We should be going in with 710 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 10: both fis to make sure that people can see not 711 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 10: just how bad the Republicans are, but the Democrats stand 712 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 10: for something. We'll fight for something. We'll fight for a 713 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 10: country that works for working people, not just far right billionaires, 714 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 10: and we'll fight for a democracy. 715 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate your commitment to the Ben, and I 716 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: appreciate your analysis. 717 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 7: Here. 718 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 1: We'll see if you guys, will see if you guys prevail. 719 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 5: Thanks so much, Thank you Ben, Thank you guys so 720 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 5: much for watching. We appreciate it. 721 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: We'll see you all tomorrow. 722 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 4: BEI