1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:00,360 Speaker 1: Folks. 2 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 2: We've talked about Rudyard Kipling before in the past. Old 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 2: Ricky Ticky Tappy, the author of one of our favorite poems. 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: If also in Boots Boots Boots again. 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah sorry, I'm very twenty eight days later trailer coded. 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: Oh I love it. Also Ridgy Kipling. Just to be clear, 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: not a great dude as a but he did write 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff, one of the best young adult 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 2: spy novels out there, Kim. In this classic episode, we 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: also talk about his inspiration to write a little something 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: called the Jungle Book. 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, you may have heard of it. It turns out 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: that the story of Maugli was in fact inspired by 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: some very sad tales of feral children who were abandoned 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: by their human parents and actually, for all intents and purposes, 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: raised by wolves, or the very least raised in the wild. 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: Let's jump. I am. 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. 19 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: Now. 20 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: This is the law of the jungle, as old and 21 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 2: as true as the sky, and the wolf that shall 22 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break 23 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: it must die. That is part of the law of 24 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: the Jungle. Roderi Kipling, Ben you know what I thought 25 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: you were gonna do. What do you think I was 26 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: gonna do? 27 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: You thought you were gonna do? Now, this is a 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: story all about how my life got flipped turned upside down. 29 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: Let me take a minute. Just sit right back on 30 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: the bell air. I think you nailed it. 31 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: I guess if we wanted to do lyrics would be 32 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: like now, this is a story all about how my 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: parents left me in the woods across town. Like to 34 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: take a minute, just sit right there. Tell you how 35 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: I grew up with a cat and a bear. You 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: know what I mean. 37 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: That's good, that's that's not I pulled up to. I 38 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: don't know. This is your bag, Ben, you did a 39 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: good job. Yeah, Because we're talking about we're talking about 40 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: sort of a slice of history, a type thing that 41 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: encompasses a couple of different periods. At the base of 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: our story today is one particular faral child that was 43 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: found in India and likely served as the basis for 44 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: one of your favorite racist works of fiction, Ben, He's 45 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: one of my my favorite I'm doing favorite and quotation fingers. 46 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, well it is. The Jungle Book is an amazing story. 47 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: It's almost as amazing as our super producer Casey Pegram, 48 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: But you're right, Noel. The story of Dina Sanitchar not 49 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: his real name. As far as we know, our story 50 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: takes us to a part of India called Uttar Pradesh, 51 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: which I may be mispronouncing. It's sort of like northern 52 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: central India, on the border of Nepal And. In eighteen 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 2: seventy two, there was a group of hunters who encountered 54 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 2: a pack of wolves bounding through the forest. But not 55 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: just any ordinary pack of wolves, right, no. 56 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: No, they say, what ho, I've sight hed a man 57 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: cub yes on all fours scamperings as though he were 58 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: a member of the pack. And then they proceeded to 59 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: smoke the wolf pack out of their cave, kill the wolves, 60 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: and bring this man cub to like a local orphanage, 61 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: because you know, he clearly couldn't possibly be happy living 62 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: in the woods, free and naked and with his animal brethren. 63 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: I feel like you've got a personal steak in this blood. 64 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: Oh right, you're right back, I just think, you know, 65 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's so sad. They literally there's different accounts 66 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: of the story that they killed all of the wolves, 67 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: or that they at least killed the mother wolf and 68 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: again smoke them out of the cave. But you know, 69 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: it's such so presumptuous to me. He was like, what 70 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: six years old? 71 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: I want to say, Yeah, he was six. 72 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: I guess. I guess they felt like they were doing 73 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: their their Christian duty. 74 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: They probably did. But you know, the wolves most likely 75 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: attacked them because first off, they set a fire and 76 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: then they were actively intruding into Like if unless a 77 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: wolf is threatened or starving, it doesn't care what you do. Human. 78 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: Would these have been white hunters been or would these 79 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: have been Hindi like people from the region. Is this 80 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: during colonialism or is this a little bit before. This 81 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: is during the British Raj, So it's not clear if 82 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: these were white hunters or if these were local men 83 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: and not that really matters, but we'll get to that. 84 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: So the boy is brought to town, to the village 85 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: and to a mission run orphanage that's run by a 86 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: priest by the name of Father Earhart, who is very 87 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: much trying to convert the local population to his type 88 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: of his way of thinking, right, yeah, which is Catholicism. 89 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: He's a missionary, right, And he says he actually gives 90 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 2: the kid his name the kid doesn't have a human 91 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 2: name yet, and so he names him Dina and Sonni 92 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: Char and Sonny Char means Saturday. 93 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: It's right, which is the day of the week that 94 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: he was delivered to this guy. 95 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: Which I think that checks out. It's not a huge 96 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: burst of creativity. But I also think I also this 97 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: is just a personal aesthetic, Noel. But I think it's 98 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: really cool when people have names. There are days of 99 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: the week like Wednesday, Adams. I thought that was great. 100 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: That is cool somebody's last name is Saturday. They just 101 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: feel kind of fun to me. 102 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I like the idea of his girl Friday, 103 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: you know. 104 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 105 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: And also mister Wednesday from American Gods. 106 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, mister Wednesday. I don't know any I don't 107 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: think I know anyone named Tuesday. If you're listening and 108 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: you happen to be named Tuesday or after any day 109 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: of the week, or after any day of the week, 110 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: we don't want to discriminate. 111 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, let what happens next. 112 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 2: So what happens next is that Father Earhart says some things. 113 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 2: We have a quotation from him that I think encapsulates 114 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: the condescending attitude so prevalent at the time, he says 115 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: that he thinks Sona Char is undoubtedly what he called pagal, 116 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: meaning idiotic or slow. But he says, despite this, Santa 117 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: Char still shows signs of reason and sometimes actual shrewdness. 118 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: But what we know now with the benefit of retrospect, 119 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: is that Sona Charg's behavior had a lot in common 120 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: with the behavior of other case similar cases of feral children. 121 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the thing, the most important takeaway from 122 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: this and the interaction with some we'll talk about some others, 123 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: but they there's a window, very crucial window for language development, 124 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: and this child had soundly missed that window. So it 125 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: basically means that developing any kind of spoken in language 126 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: or being assimilated into speaking with you know, the folks 127 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: in the village, was going to be nigh on impossible. Right. 128 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: That's that's the problematic part. You're absolutely correct about this, 129 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 2: not just this concept of language learning or language acquisition, 130 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: but also the concept of certain other behavior acquisitions. So 131 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: Santa Char allegedly would not express himself in ways that 132 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: seemed innately human. For instance, for a long time, we 133 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: as a species assumed that smiling or laughter were innate things, 134 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 2: sort of how like people used say all babies are 135 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: born knowing how to swim. 136 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. 137 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say swear all babies are 138 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: born knowing how to swear. 139 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: And if look who's talking, is any indication? 140 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: Right? Right? A fantastic series of documentaries. But the problem 141 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: with Santa Char is that he did not seem to 142 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: laugh or smile, and he didn't seem to bond with people. 143 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: With one notable exception, he would only bond with animals. 144 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: There was a kid that he bonded with, which was 145 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: another fairal child who came to the same orphanage. By 146 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: this time, Santa Char had learned to wear human clothing. 147 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: He could reportedly dress himself quote with difficulty, and keep 148 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: track of his cup and his plate. But he showed 149 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: this younger kid. They would hang out, and he showed 150 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: him how to drink from a cup. 151 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and apparently he also became quite the chainsmoker. Yes 152 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: later in life. 153 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was his uh, that was his one big 154 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: human habit he picked up, right, Yeah, what a what 155 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 2: a one to pick up? That's you know, it's it's 156 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: heartbreaking when you think about this because in other case 157 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: or other alleged cases, we should say, because we can 158 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: get into the the science of this a little bit later. 159 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: In many other cases where something like this is alleged 160 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: to have occurred, there's not a way to fix it. 161 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: You can mitigate some of the some of the issues, 162 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: but you can't repair them. This, this guy, Santa char 163 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: was likely incapable of, you know, going on to become 164 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: a priest himself or make a ted talk. 165 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: Here's my question for you, Ben, this is why I 166 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: had such an axt to grind at the top of 167 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: the show, with these horrible, horrible men smoking out the 168 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: lovely wolf and family that had raised this young lad. 169 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 2: I think I know where you're going. 170 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, wouldn't Eve has been better off frolicking in the forest, 171 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: free and naked with the wolf pack. 172 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: Rather than the Seicandra mission orphanage. 173 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question, like stuck between two worlds? Right, 174 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: he can't fully be human and he can't fully be 175 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: an animal. It's it's just it's really heartbreaking if you 176 00:09:59,280 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: think about it. 177 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And we have to ask ourselves what 178 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: is the ultimate priority? Is a quality of life? 179 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: Is it? 180 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: Because our civilization is doing something that are we conflating 181 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: living the way we do with living the correct way, 182 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. 183 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: That's right. I think it's a I think there's an 184 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: inherent judgment call at play here. Is it about protecting 185 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: the life of the child? I don't know. Obviously, a 186 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: six year old orphan running around with a bunch of 187 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: wolves probably isn't the most safe thing in the world. 188 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: But I'm not sure. Man, I'm of two minds of it. 189 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: It's clearly causing me some conflict internally. 190 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: There are arguments on both sides. You know what when 191 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: you see pictures of the guy, because there are actual 192 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: photographs of Dina Sano chart, which is why we can 193 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 2: put some more weight into this story in comparison to 194 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 2: other stories like Romulus and Remus raised by a wolf 195 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 2: that's mythology, there are any photographs of them. This guy, though, 196 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: when you look at the pictures, it's heartbreaking. Man. He's 197 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: clearly uncomfortable having to wear these clothes. He doesn't look 198 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: like he's super comfortable standing on two feet, no, stand 199 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 2: on two legs. 200 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 1: Rather, and apparently he continued like he did learn to 201 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: eat from a plate, like you said, but he continued 202 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: to prefer raw meat to anything else. And he would 203 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: still sniff it before eating it up until he passed away, 204 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: I believe at a pretty early age, if I'm not 205 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: mistaken from what's thought to have been tuberculosis. Why don't 206 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: we talk a little bit more about some other famous 207 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 1: feral children throughout history, Ben, and kind of do a 208 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: little contrast and compare. 209 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, uh, let's go with Let's see, do you 210 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: wanna where don't we start with children who had also 211 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: been quote unquote raised by other animals? How's that sound? 212 00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: That does sound good to me? Ben? 213 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: All right, Well, we have that, we have that other 214 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 2: feral child that was found and brought to the same 215 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 2: mission orphanage. But then we have we have examples such 216 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: as the Lobo wolf Girl from eighteen forty five to 217 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: eighteen fifty two. In eighteen forty five, she was seen 218 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 2: running in Mexico on all fours with a pack of 219 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: wolves attacking herd of goats. A year later, she was 220 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 2: seen with the wolves eating a goat. People tried to 221 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: capture her. She was captured, but she escaped, and then 222 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 2: she was seen in eighteen fifty two suckling two wolf cubs, 223 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 2: at which point she ran into the woods and was 224 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 2: never seen again, and I just. 225 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: Want to backtrack just slightly. India in particular has a 226 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: history of producing these feral children. In addition to Santa 227 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: Chier there and his buddy who was at the orphanage, 228 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: over the years, there have been several other cases including 229 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: wolf children, panther children, dog children, chicken children, and even 230 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: gazelle children. So this this is kind of mythology that RUDYERD. 231 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: Kipling would continue to kind of inject into the minds 232 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: of the West. There was some truth to it. 233 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is where we get into a 234 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: little bit of a speculative thing. But I believe it's 235 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: safe to speculate here. Rudery Kipling was aware of the 236 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: story of Dina and he then went on to write 237 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 2: The Jungle Book with a character of Mowgli. 238 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: Now did we talk about We kind of alluded pretty 239 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: harshly to Kipling's imperialist leanings and his kind of inherent 240 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: not greatness. What was he trying to communicate with the 241 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: story of the man Cub beyond just the kind of 242 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: lighthearted story of a of a boy, you know, connected 243 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: back to nature. 244 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 2: It's an interesting question. So this guy is most well 245 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 2: known for things like the Jungle Book, maybe that Mongoose story, 246 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: the poem if, which is a wonderful poem. But he 247 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 2: is also the author of a poem called the white 248 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 2: Man's Burden, and this was not a sarcastic comment on 249 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: his part or a sarcastic statement. When he is writing 250 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: the Jungle Book, he is writing in a context of 251 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: rampant othering and rationalization. So British forces at this time 252 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: are thinking the implicit problem is you cannot subjugate people 253 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: in entire culture and then say, oh, they are equal 254 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 2: to us. We're just doing it because we want resources 255 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: and we're you know, we're no better than robbers. You 256 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 2: have to say that we are somehow better, we are 257 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: somehow more human, for lack of a better statement. 258 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: So the white Man's Burden is that like the inherent 259 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: harness of the white man and their mission to kind 260 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: of indoctrinate anyone that they see as being lesser. 261 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the idea. It's that they are somehow 262 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: ideologically freeing people who've existed thousands of years before. 263 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: With that being backward or something that right. 264 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 2: Right, bringing them forward, awakening to them to what they 265 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: thought was the true religion. Which would be something like 266 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 2: the aristocracy, Christianity, capitalism, kind of all in its marass, 267 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: in its own mix, uh, and then over time making 268 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: them a little less bad. Never white, never as good 269 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: as the British, just a little less bad. Right, And 270 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: this theme resonates in some of the ideas of things 271 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: that would would be depicted in the US as well, 272 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 2: the concept of the noble, the quote unquote noble savage. 273 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: You've heard that, you know, on touched by the fetters 274 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: of true civilization. 275 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: Which is kind of what Mogli is meant to be. 276 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 2: Mowgli is kind of this innocent babe in the woods 277 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 2: who has this nobility, but of course, at the end 278 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: of the story pursues his destiny in the world of men. 279 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: Because it's inevitable, because that's what you're supposed to do. 280 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 2: And this leads us to some other stories. You had 281 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: mentioned that India seem to have a higher frequency of 282 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: feral children. There was one named Mdioh in nineteen seventy two, 283 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: which is pretty recent, right. 284 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was. 285 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: About four years old. He was found in forest in 286 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: India playing with wolf cubs. Apparently his skin was very dark. 287 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: He had long hooked fingernails. I don't know how much 288 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: of this is true, because they also say as sharpened teeth, 289 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: which feels a little out there for me. But he 290 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 2: had callouses on his palms, elbows, and knees. He never talked, 291 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: He learned sign language. He also was eating raw meat. 292 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: He was admitted to Mother Teresa's Home for the destitute 293 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: and died in luck. Now who was renamed Pascal. He 294 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: died in nineteen eighty five, A lot of times after 295 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 2: being apprehended, at least in these stories. Feral children don't 296 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: do well in society. Like you said, I really appreciate 297 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 2: you bringing up that praisnal. They don't fit in to 298 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: either world completely. They're in this what's called a liminal space. 299 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: They're on the border between the world of humanity and 300 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 2: the world of animals that raise them. We also know 301 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: that there's a what we call tantalizing science about feral children. 302 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 2: There's not as much research on them as there should be. 303 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 2: While there are several confirmed cases, there are a lot 304 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: of speculative ones. And look, this is kind of dark, 305 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: ridiculous historians, but it needs to be said. Sometimes when 306 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: children appear to be feral, they may have run away 307 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 2: because they experienced severe abuse or trauma. A girl in 308 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 2: the Ukraine whose parents were very very serious alcoholics. Her 309 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: name was Axanda Malaya. In nineteen ninety one, she was 310 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: found living with dogs in a kennel. She was eight 311 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: years old. She had been living with the dogs for 312 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: six years because her parents left her outside one night 313 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: and she crawled in with the dogs. Oh wow, So 314 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: that's something that And just like we mentioned earlier with 315 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: the language acquisition window, she ran on all fours pant 316 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 2: with her tongue out, communicated like a dog. She only 317 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: knew the words yes and no, and she was luckily, 318 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 2: with intensive therapy, able to learn some basic social verbal skills. 319 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: Now or at the last report, she lives in Odessa 320 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: and works with farm animals under the supervision of her caretakers. 321 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: So that is a happy ending. But we have to remember, 322 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 2: as easy as it is to romanticize this idea of 323 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 2: someone raised with animals and having this innate bond with them, 324 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 2: this kind of bond can occur because of some very 325 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 2: terrible things. 326 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely we don't know where the boy who would 327 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: go on to be called Dina, what his story was, 328 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: but surely I mean it sounds like he spent enough 329 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: time with these creatures and they did not eat him, 330 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: and he developed their traits that he was relatively safe. 331 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I keep beating the drum for this 332 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: hole let the kid live in the forest line of thinking. 333 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: And I'm probably going to get some people yelling at 334 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: me about that, But I stand by my position. 335 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 2: I think it's good to have a position. I could 336 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: see the validity of the argument. You know, it's weird 337 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 2: because this is not a perfect comparison. But back when 338 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: I lived in Central America, there was this huge epidemic 339 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 2: of stray dogs in particular, and they were running packs, 340 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 2: they had you know, matted hair, they had all the 341 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 2: problems that you would have if you were a stray dog. 342 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 2: You didn't go to the vet, and you were outdoors 343 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 2: all the time. And I was talking to another ex 344 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 2: pat and I asked them, you know, what do you 345 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: think about all these dogs? Should they round them up? 346 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 2: Do people adopt dogs the way they do in the US? 347 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 2: And all this other stuff? And he said it used 348 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: to really bother me, but look at them. There's so 349 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 2: much more free than they would be in a kennel 350 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 2: or something, and their lives are hard, but they're still 351 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: their lives. 352 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: You know. 353 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 2: I'm still conflicted about that, you know what I mean? 354 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: Because are their lives that good? 355 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: You know? 356 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: How? First off, how long would he have lived like 357 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 2: this in the woods if those hunters hadn't intervened, He 358 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 2: would have lived longer than the wolves, who would have 359 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 2: ultimately been alone. 360 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: Again, that's very true, and I do see all that. 361 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: So it's hard to say. 362 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, it's tough to say which life. 363 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: Is better, I guess, is what I'm getting at what 364 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: I'm struggling with. 365 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm right there with you, man, Although you 366 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: know what, I think we should mention. You mentioned gazelle, 367 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: the gazelle kid. You did that. Yeah, So this gazelle child. 368 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: The story comes from someone named Jean Claude Alger who's 369 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 2: an anthropologist and was traveling across the Spanish Sahara in 370 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty when he met some nomads who told him 371 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: that there was a wild child living a day's journey away, 372 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: so he followed their directions. Next day, he sees this 373 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: naked kid galloping in gigantic bounds along with a quote 374 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: long cavalcade of white gazelle's. The boy walked on all fours, 375 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: sometimes assumed an upright gate, but he twitched his muscle, 376 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 2: scalped nose and ears like the rest of the herd 377 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: eight desert roots. He appeared to be herbivorous, and his 378 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 2: teeth were level like that of an herbivore. But he 379 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 2: lived this way for at least another six years. People 380 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 2: tried to catch him in a net suspended by helicopter, 381 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: but unlike so many other paral children, according to this story, 382 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: he was never removed from his companions. 383 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: Good. 384 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he liked that story. That's a happy and 385 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 2: he lived life as a gazelle. But you know, I always, 386 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 2: even from a young age, I always thought the life 387 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 2: of something like a gazelle or a deer must be so. 388 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: Oh rife with panic in the paranoia and just you know, 389 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: death around every corner. So you know what, maybe I'd 390 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: take it back. Running with the wolf pack might have 391 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: been safer. 392 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, like befriending and some tigers, although that could you 393 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: have to work pretty hard to stay on their good side. Right, 394 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: Very true, And just to clarify, there was more than 395 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 2: one gazelle boy. And there's also a rumor The gazelle 396 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 2: stories are interesting because there are rumors that the entire 397 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: thing was a hoax made by board reporters. 398 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: I see. 399 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 2: So I don't know because it sounds it sounds kind 400 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 2: of unusual, right. 401 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: It really does. 402 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 2: So what are some what is? Were there any examples 403 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 2: that really stuck out to you of children raised by animals? 404 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, there were a few, But I do want to 405 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: take an opportunity to point something out, and it's more 406 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: of me pointing out that I'm kind of a dummy 407 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: when it comes to this. I did not realize that 408 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: Noam Chomsky was like this pre eminent linguist. He kind 409 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: of like wrote the paper that figured out about that 410 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: window of language acquisition that we were talking about earlier. 411 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: I only knew him from his political talks and his 412 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, anti government rhetoric, but apparently early on in 413 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: his career he was this like incredible linguist. Generative grammar, yeah, 414 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: generative grammar. 415 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. Chomsky doesn't always get the credit he deserves, at 416 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: least in that field, you know what I mean. 417 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: I feel like it's not something that was super out there, 418 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: but it's fascinating if you look into his work in 419 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: that field. He did some really important stuff. So moving 420 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: on to some of my favorite feral children, I got 421 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: one that stood out to me at least it kind 422 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: of and it sort of falls in line with what 423 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: you were talking about earlier, Ben, about how you'd want 424 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: to befriend some lions and definitely more likely than being 425 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: a gazelle boy. We've got Leopard Boy, who was supposedly 426 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: taken in by a leopardess in nineteen twelve and lived 427 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: with her for three years. Of course, surprise, surprise, Matt 428 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: anders the picture and kills the leopard and found her offspring, 429 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: one of which was this boy who is now five 430 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: years old, and they found his family. And again this 431 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: was in India and is very very similar to the 432 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: wolf boy where he was most comfortable running around in 433 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: all fours. He had callouses to the point of almost 434 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: like paw pads on his hands and feet, and he 435 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: had a very tough hide just from you know, can 436 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: you imagine scampering through the woods and getting nicked by 437 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: tree branches and I'll call manner of ruffage, you know, 438 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you would have to really develop some thick 439 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: skin literally. 440 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 2: Right, crawling up trees as well, right yep. 441 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: And he was a bier and a fighter, as you 442 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: might have to be, and he would eat live chickens 443 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: from around the village. 444 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 2: Straight up seahorse teeth, My man. 445 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: Big time, you're bringing it back. 446 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 2: I'm bringing it back. 447 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: I knew you would. 448 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 2: One of us had to if we did, in case, 449 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 2: he would probably have jumped in right before the end. 450 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: But this story is so sad. He actually apparently gradually 451 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: lost his sight due to cataracts, but that was just 452 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: a coincidence, had nothing to do with his upbringing or 453 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: his jungle days. So you know, I put it to you, 454 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: would he have been better off hanging out with the 455 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: leopard family in the jungle? I see how a man 456 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: hadn't swooped in and murdered his mother. 457 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a philosophical question at this point. You know, now, 458 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 2: what were there any other ones that really stuck out 459 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 2: to you? 460 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: I think we mentioned a chicken boy. 461 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 2: We did, we should follow, we should deliver on that. 462 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: This particular chicken boy came from Fiji and he was 463 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: dubbed Sujeit's Kumar, the Chicken Boy of Fiji, and was 464 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: found in nineteen seventy eight. And this is one of 465 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: the sad ones like you had mentioned earlier, very very sad. 466 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: In fact, he had a very tragic, dysfunctional childhood. His parents, 467 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: as punishment locked him in the chicken coop, and his 468 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: mother took her own life, and his father was killed, 469 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: and apparently his grandfather, who sounds like a terrible twisted man, 470 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: kept him in the chicken coop and was there for 471 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: eight years. He was found in the middle of the road, 472 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: clucking and flapping his arms and pecking at his This 473 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: is dark, dude. I don't want to end on this one. 474 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 2: Well, it does have a happy ending because he got out. Yeah, 475 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 2: then he has human assistance, and you. 476 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: Know, according to everything that I've found, he's still living 477 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: and he is cared for by the woman who rescued 478 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: him from the home, a woman named Elizabeth Clayton. So 479 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: good good on her. Is dark one though, Well. 480 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 2: I'm just saying nowadays, were I out in the wilderness 481 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: and I saw a dirty, naked kid running around with 482 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 2: any sort of animal, I would feel responsible. I feel 483 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 2: like I have to call the authorities, yes, in case 484 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 2: the kid had been lost or separated from their parents. 485 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: It's true, it's true, Ben, I don't know why I've 486 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: got says n next to grind about this. I think 487 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do with just man 488 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: thinking he knows best. 489 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 2: Now. But here's the thing. I mean very age just 490 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: about this, because if I walked out and I saw 491 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: somebody our age running around naked with some wolves or whatever, 492 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: I would just say, keep going, man, more power to you, 493 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. They've clearly made their choice. 494 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 2: But let us know what you think would Age matter 495 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 2: if you saw somebody running naked through the woods with 496 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 2: some animals with the type of animal matter you know, 497 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: And we want to hear your stories of any feral children, 498 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: whether you think they're anecdotal or whether you think they 499 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 2: are backed up by evidence, because as we were looking 500 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 2: through this, we found a lot of these were either 501 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 2: I hate to say, sensationalized, but maybe exaggerated in some cases. 502 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 2: Sure you know, in some cases there were some actual 503 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 2: i'll call them con jobs in Europe in days of yore. 504 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 2: But we as always want to hear from you. You 505 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 2: can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We especially like 506 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 2: to recommend our community page, Ridiculous Historians, which has really 507 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 2: been cooking with gas. 508 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: Really has, so please join us over there. We'd like 509 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: to thank our super producer Casey pegram as always for 510 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: being straight. Seahorse tea our favorite new expression. We gotta 511 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: use it like once an episode. Now now we don't want to. 512 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: We don't wanna. 513 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: We don't want to, we don't want to burn out. 514 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to wear it thin. We'd like to 515 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: thank our buddy Alex Williams who composed our theme, our 516 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: research associates Christopher Eves and Gabe and. 517 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 2: I would like to thank you NOL because I've been 518 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 2: sneak eating Dorito's this entire episode. Try not to be rude. 519 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: I just haven't eaten. 520 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: To spoiler alert? Wasn't that sneaky brown? Oh? 521 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 2: Could you hear it? 522 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: I can smell the dust. 523 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 2: Well, hopefully it doesn't translate to the to the podcast. 524 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: Let us know. Did you hear Ben sneak eating? Shame him? 525 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 2: Did you congratulate me? 526 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: Here you go? 527 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 2: You always have to be you know, it's better to 528 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: be positive. 529 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: Very true, Ben, very true. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 530 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 531 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.