1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: This episode is something that I'm passionate about, mules and 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: mule riders or mule skinners as they're called. We'll talk 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: about why that we use mules, how they compare to horses, 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: and how they rise and fall to the experience of 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: their rider. And we're going to have a couple of 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: very unique people talking to us about this. We're gonna 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: hear again from trainer and clinician Ty Evans about mulemanship. 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: But you're in for a treat because we'll also hear 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: from legendary Arizona cowboy Warner Glinn. That's right, Beargreas Hall 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: of Famer Warner Glenn. Once again. I think you're gonna 11 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: be surprised by what we're gonna learn as we listen 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: to these guys talk about mules. I really doubt that 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna want to miss this one. 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 2: A lot of the old timers rats that Warner, why 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: do you ride mules t hunt rather than horses? And 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: I said, well, tell you the truth. I just you know, 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: I just don't feel as sorry for mules. Can I 18 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: forge that going to take him and be both or 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 2: she and me? By and large, most of the Mountain 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: Lion hunters in our area use mules now most of 21 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: the type. 22 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Knukelem and this is the Bear 23 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 24 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 25 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,639 Speaker 1: story of Americans who live their lives close to the land. 26 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: Presented by f h F gear, American made purpose built 27 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing gear as designed to be as rugged 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: as the place as we explore. 29 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: Thank you Lord for this food, and thank you Lord 30 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: for the guidance of safety you've given us today. And 31 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: please watch over to the night and give us a 32 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: a good night's rest on it man. 33 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: One of the most unique and impacting experiences of my 34 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: life has been the time that I've spent with Warner. 35 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: Glenn Warner is now ninety years old, and in twenty 36 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: twenty two I was able to ride mules and lion 37 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: hunt with him near his home in Douglas, Arizona. The 38 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: southern border of his ranch is the US Mexican border. 39 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: Warner is a cattle rancher and a dry ground lion hunter. 40 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: He's a true cowboy. 41 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: Now, Claire will try a little Jesse pooka. 42 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: If you've heard the super puncher Dale Brisbee harassed me 43 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: about my mule. You might get the impression that cowboys 44 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: don't like mules, and some don't. I've learned that a 45 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: lot of rodeo cowboys don't like them, but the cowboy 46 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: hunters that I know love them. And I just did 47 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 1: something out of the ordinary. I asked chat GPT, that's right, 48 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: chat GPT, if there were any common themes among mule owners, 49 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: and it quickly spit out seven things. And I'd like 50 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: to read you the list that it said. Number one, 51 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: mule owners value function over flash. Number two. Mule owners 52 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: are comfortable with earned trust, trust that's negotiated, not demanded. 53 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: Number three. Mule writers have a high tolerance for stubbornness 54 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: and like animals that assess risk. Number four, they have 55 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: a strong rural, working backcountry connection mule writers do. Number five. 56 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: Mule writers are skeptical of hype and authority. Number six. 57 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: Mule writers tend to be loyal once convinced. But mule 58 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: owners may be slow to adopt new ideas, but once 59 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: they believe in something, they stick with it, defend it passionately, 60 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: evangelize it quietly through results. This mirrors how mules themselves. 61 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: Operate number seven, the last one that chat GPT spit out. 62 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: Mule writers are often experienced animal people. In summary, it 63 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: says mule owners tend to be pragmatic, independent, patient people 64 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: who value intelligence, self preservation, and earned partnership over obedience 65 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: and appearance. That was a wild trip. Based on what 66 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: I know of Warner, Glenn and ty Evans, these things 67 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: sound about right. I want to talk with Warner. This 68 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: interview is from twenty twenty one when I was down 69 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: in Douglas, Arizona, and I want to ask him about 70 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: his history with mules. 71 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: In cattle work here on the rent, we like to 72 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 2: use horses. They're a little more responsive than that type 73 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: of thing. We're just although we use mules a lot 74 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: of times. We don't have the horses up if we 75 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 2: have to work in cattle, but in the hunting. But 76 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: that and I use a lot of horses. When they 77 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: first started, early in the fourties and early fifties and sixties, 78 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 2: we were horseback most of the time, even because we were 79 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: raising all those horses in the mountains. Yeah, and we 80 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: were breaking them ourselves, so they were good mountain horses. 81 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to find a good mountain horse now, 82 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: But we want to use mules. We use mules all 83 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: together now when we're hunting. They take care of themselves 84 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 2: in that rough, rugged country. They hardly ever get crippled, ever, 85 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: hardly ever get hurt. If they do happen to fall 86 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: with you. And I'm not saying a mule won't fall 87 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: with you, they will have them fall with me. But 88 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: usually when they get in a real bad place and 89 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: fall or get in the tight situation there, they're kind 90 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: of relaxing. Wait a minute. They don't panic, where a 91 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: horse will usually panic and go to london or kicking 92 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 2: and get freddy. Well, you might find one occasionally that would, 93 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: but most mules settle down and take a kind of 94 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: ease out of a tough situation. And in doing that 95 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: they allow you time to step out of the middle 96 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: of the trouble too. They're not they're not lundon and fighting. 97 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: And I tell you when you get it, when they 98 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: go down with if there's a pause, taught you better 99 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: take advantage of you better get out of the way. 100 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: I'm gonna remember that. Yeah, Hey, you told me a 101 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: statement today. You said you said, we've had some good 102 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: mountain horses, but I sure felt sorry for it. 103 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Well, a lot of the old timers around said, wonder, 104 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: why do you rude mules all the time hunting rather 105 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 2: than horses, And I said, well, to tell you the truth, 106 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 2: i'd you know, I just don't feel as sorry for 107 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: a mule as I do a horse. Can I figure 108 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: that mule was going to take him and me both 109 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: and showing me. I'm not saying there's not some good 110 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: mountain horses still around. Some of the hunters still use 111 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: horses quite a bit, but by and large, most of 112 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: the mountain lion hunters in our area use mules and 113 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: meals most of the time. 114 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: Tell me about tell me about your mule Machomo. 115 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: Well, I tell you yeah. And he came out of 116 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: Mexico where at that time that this would have been 117 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: like fifty six, fifty seven, fifty eight, nineteen fifty six, 118 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: fifty seventy, we were doing a lot of hunting in 119 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: the northern part of Sonora in these mountains you didn't 120 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: see from here in south it was. And they had 121 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: a mule called Motobo down there that one of the 122 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: wranglers down there was riding. So when we came out 123 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: of there. The rancher was making Armando Marella. He was 124 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: making some really good horses. He had bonds of real 125 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: fancy stud and he said for payment for catching some 126 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: of the lines down, and then he said, wonder on when 127 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: he gave you one of these good horses. And I said, man, 128 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: I know, I said, I would really rather have that 129 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: baby mule called. He said you would, and I said yeah. 130 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: So he gave me the mule. That's where he came from, 131 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: and he's one of the best mules I've ever hit. 132 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 3: There. 133 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: He was a little wild and rank. At first, I 134 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: got ridy. He kicked me a time or two, really bad, 135 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: but he got over that. When he got about eighteen 136 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: nineteen years old, he got. 137 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: I took a while. What was your favorite mule of 138 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: all time? 139 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: Well, I tell you I've had a lot of them, 140 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: but of all time, if I had my pick for 141 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: one to stay with, I had a white mule called 142 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: Shnoy River and he would want He would do anything 143 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: you wanted to do it, and he would do it good. 144 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: And he was willing. He never balked. I mean he 145 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 2: was good rough country. You could go ahead of cow 146 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: and I mean you work cattle all you were doing, 147 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: just a good all around mule butt. 148 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: He carry a line too, Oh yeah, yeah, he carried 149 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: a loah. 150 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's some most of our I tell you, they're 151 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: not afraid of the lion as much as you are. 152 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: Bear it seems like our mules here, of course they don't. 153 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 2: We don't bear hunt much. It's just very rare that 154 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: they're even around him. I've had I'm riding. You'll see 155 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: her in the morning, videan. She's she's one of those. 156 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: How big a mule do you like? 157 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't like him too big. I like him. 158 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 2: It weighs probably ten fifty to twelve fifty. 159 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: These are pretty big mules you've got, though, I mean, 160 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: they're some of the more sixteen hands probably are they that. 161 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: A couple of couple of them probably are. 162 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: You're a big, big guy, they're they're. 163 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 2: A little bigger than those are good mules, the ones 164 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: we got now, But I'd rather have a little smaller one. 165 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 2: I'd rather have one. Snowy River was probably he'd probably 166 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: weighed ten to fifty something like that. When he would 167 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: drawing down, Yeah, drawn down, good condition. Mortoba would have 168 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: been too. 169 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's clear that Warner knows a thing or two 170 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: about mules, and he's probably put as many miles in 171 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: the saddle of a mule as any living person. Where 172 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: as a rancher, a practitioner, and a man of function 173 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: don't have no doubt he could train a mule, He's 174 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: not necessarily a mule trainer. That's not where he's focused. 175 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: Ty Evans is less than half of Warner's age and 176 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: has spent inordinate amounts of time training mules, and his 177 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: expertise comes from a slightly different angle. Ti is a 178 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: methodical student of the mule, and in the last episode 179 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: we learned about Tie's transformation as a trainer, going from 180 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: the cowboy way of bucking a mule out and demanding 181 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: its submission and allegiance to using the principles of natural horsemanship, 182 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: where trust is earned and freely given, rather than taking 183 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: using the herd mentality and leaning in to the way 184 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: a mule thinks to gain its trust kind of inside 185 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: its natural order. But I want to get back to 186 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: the basics with Tie Evans. 187 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 3: So a mule is a cross between a horse and 188 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 3: a donkey, a female horse and a male donkey. Jack Okay, 189 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: and that makes the hybrid we're crossing. We're acrossing these 190 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: species here. It's that hybrid makes all kinds of advantages. 191 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 4: For performance animals. 192 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: It just makes them double tough, makes a lot of 193 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 3: unique things. Mules shine the best in rough country. The 194 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: rougher it is, the more they shine. Now that doesn't 195 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 3: mean you can't use mules for all the gentle stuff too, 196 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: And you might not be riding rough country. You might 197 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: be riding something pretty mild. You might be just riding 198 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 3: in the arena. Maybe you want to just do some masage. 199 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: Maybe you want to just do some arena events. That's okay, 200 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: and they do good there too. The diversity is awesome. 201 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 3: But I'll tell you what. The mules shines in the mountains. 202 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 3: It shines in the rough country. It shines in using 203 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 3: them day after day, year after year. The longevity that 204 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 3: they have. And you know that's why historically they have 205 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 3: been beasts of burden too. You know, people have used 206 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 3: them historically. 207 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 4: The horse gets all the credit for the West, but 208 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 4: the mules made the West. They really did. 209 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 3: There's you know, mules were very valuable to pioneers and 210 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 3: I come from pioneer heritage on you know, multiple sides, 211 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 3: and they came over with mules, and they made this 212 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 3: country with meals. 213 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 4: They plowed the fields with mules, They mined with mules. 214 00:12:48,960 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 3: Mules made the West and pretty cool. I have so 215 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 3: much respect for the mule. I've seen what they can do. 216 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 3: From the some of the I'll admit, some of the 217 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: dumb situations I have put a mule in, I have 218 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: seen what they can do and how they can get 219 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 3: me out of those situations, and they can reverse those 220 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 3: choices I made. You know, I've put my mules into 221 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: situations that are very challenging technically in the mountains in 222 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 3: the Red Rock Country of Utah, and I owe so 223 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 3: much to them. I also love the mule because of 224 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 3: their unique and dynamic personalities. A lot of people will 225 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 3: describe will describe them as kind of doglike, and I 226 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 3: can agree with that. You know, they do kind of 227 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 3: have more of a dog like personality. Yeah, And I've 228 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 3: had some horses with great personalities, don't get me wrong, 229 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 3: But the mules just more so. And that was one 230 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 3: of Tom Dorance's sayings. He said, the mule is just 231 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 3: like the horse, only more so. And so it just 232 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 3: seemed like if you've got a really friendly mual. They're 233 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 3: really friendly, you know, And I love that about them. 234 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 3: I love how forgiving they are. And that's actually a 235 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 3: myth that a lot of people have, is that they're 236 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 3: not forgiving. 237 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 4: Oh come on, everybody, you know. 238 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 3: They're forgiving all the stuff that all the stuff that 239 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 3: the mule has put up with me and forgiven me 240 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 3: for I make mistakes every time I ride, every time 241 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 3: I rode today, rode twenty miles a day, I made 242 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 3: all kinds of mistakes, and that mule is gonna forgive me, 243 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 3: and I'm gonna fix it. I'll be better tomorrow. And 244 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 3: I love that about the animal there. They like to 245 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 3: feel comfortable. So you might have messed up big time. 246 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 3: And if you can just help them feel comfortable, get 247 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 3: yourself right, and you help them get comfortable, they're good 248 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: to go. The hybrid vi is top notch. That is 249 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: what makes the mule that highbred vigor. It's not for everybody. 250 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 3: That's probably why I like the mule too. It is 251 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: because not everybody likes the mule, and that's okay, that's 252 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: all right. 253 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 4: But that high bred. 254 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 3: Vigor, oh my gosh, that's what makes them so durable 255 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 3: and so tough, and they can go and then not 256 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 3: only can they go today, but they can go tomorrow. 257 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 4: And I love that. 258 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 3: I really love that in them. There's nothing better than 259 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 3: riding a mule and just going up a crazy steep 260 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: side hill of a mountain, scratching through rocks, and that 261 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 3: thing is just powering up it. 262 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 4: It's just so cool. 263 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: You just fill that under you and you're thinking that 264 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 3: they might get tired, and then they give you more. 265 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 3: You know, you take a lunch break and just let 266 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: them relax a little while, and then they're. 267 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 4: Charged up for the afternoon. And I really appreciate that. Also, 268 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 4: the diversity of. 269 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 3: The meal, Oh man, you can do everything with them, 270 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: Like I can go my meals. I can go trail 271 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: ride with them, I can go packing, I can go hunt, 272 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: I can go rope and work cows. My daughter likes 273 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 3: to bail race. She'll take the meal of the bail race. 274 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 4: You know, she might not be winning. 275 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 3: You know, if you're gonna ask me what should I 276 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 3: get for bill racing, probably get a horse. I'm not 277 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 3: gonna suggest meal for bell racing. But she has fun 278 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: on that meal, and that meal takes big care of 279 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: her in that brail race. So the dice, the diversity 280 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 3: is one of my favorite things about it too. 281 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: Right, ride a little one this morning, Go Rosalie. 282 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: That's the name of the meal you're putting me on? 283 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: How old is this meal? 284 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: Problem with it? She's about seventeen seventeen, Yeah, and it's 285 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: too bad. You hate to see them, You're like, you know. 286 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: So this is your go to meal. This is what's 287 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: this meal's name? 288 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, Vivian? 289 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 4: How old is she? 290 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 2: Vid? She got to be about fifteen years old. 291 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: This is your this is the one you go to 292 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: when you got. 293 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 2: To well, youm I write this at least other every 294 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: other day. I've got three. I'm ride per regular, Ridger 295 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 2: and Vivian and uh Brayer, Yeah so and Kelly. She 296 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 2: got Rosalie and Pete and some of those others. 297 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: When when does the mule get just right and at. 298 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 2: Depend depends on a long but but I tell you what, 299 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 2: as far as being general and trustworthy and everything, I 300 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: would say like six or seven really to where you 301 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: could trust them with anybody. Yeah, right down there, and 302 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 2: you can you can write him into two or three. 303 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 2: But you better be ready for a little wreck of it. 304 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 2: Should have you know, should they're just not used to it. Yeah, 305 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: and all should these mountain I tell you they're hard 306 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 2: on you. 307 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. 308 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 309 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: Warner's knowledge of animals comes from time in the saddle, 310 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: evaluating how they navigate backcountry, and he's been in a 311 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: lot of bad wrecks. As a matter of fact, he's 312 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: been life flighted out of the back country once after 313 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: a very bad wreck, and so has his daughter Kelly. 314 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: He's been in some harry spots. He told me once 315 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: about a mule rolling over and flipping over him, but 316 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: he didn't get hurt. I had one experience with Warner 317 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: that I'll never tire of telling. Once I was following 318 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: him in Arizona and the dogs went over the top 319 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: of a high mountain. Warner basically turned and said to me, 320 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: follow me, Clay, and he sent the rest of our 321 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: crew around the mountain, but I was supposed to follow him. 322 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: We proceeded up the steepest, roughest half mile mule scramble 323 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: that I had ever been on. At the time, Warner 324 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: was ponying a pack mule. That means he was leading 325 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: a pack mule. Mules were slipping and sliding and scrambling, 326 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: and we were getting raked by limbs and mules were 327 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: jumping folders, and he never once looked back to see 328 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: if I was there. Once we got to the top, 329 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: he never acknowledged that it was a hard stretch. I 330 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: kind of expected him to turn around and be like, wow, Claire, 331 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: you okay, good job, but he never did, which then 332 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: made me wonder if that was in fact a hard 333 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: ride for him, because I knew it was for me. 334 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: So that night at the dinner table, I cautiously asked him. 335 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: I said, Warner, if you had to rank that hill 336 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: that we climbed today on a scale of one to ten, 337 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: and a one was walking your mule down a gravel road, 338 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: and a tin was that you were dead, what do 339 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: we do today? I waited anticipation as he paused and 340 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: thought for a minute. He and I kind of thought 341 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: he might say, oh, Clay, that was about a three 342 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: or four or five. But then he said, Clay, I'd 343 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: say that was about an eight. He said, if it 344 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: had been much rougher than that, you couldn't have done it. 345 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: And I smiled and had a little sigh of relief 346 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: and went on to eat dinner with him. I'll never 347 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: forget that here's tie evens. 348 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 3: The mule will rise or fall to their humans level 349 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 3: of experience and understanding. So, for example, at this point 350 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 3: in my career, I feel pretty confident that I could 351 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 3: take a mule that's pretty scared or worried or what 352 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 3: somebody else might call problem, and I could help that mule. 353 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 3: I could add value to that mule's life, and I 354 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 3: could bring it up to my level. 355 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 4: However, on the other hand, and if. 356 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 3: If somebody is very inexperienced or doesn't have a lot 357 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 3: of understanding or or the abilities, capabilities, all these things, 358 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 3: and they get a mule like that, well this is 359 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 3: this is bad news. There's the saying green on green 360 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 3: is black and blue. Well, that's not too far off 361 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 3: from the truth. On the other hand, too, I suppose 362 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 3: that person with a lot of with not a lot 363 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 3: of experience, they might buy a mule that is really 364 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 3: awesome and they think it's a you know, a turn 365 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 3: key operation. 366 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 4: Right, this this meal is ready to go. 367 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 3: But if that person doesn't continue to get better and 368 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: to grow, that mule will that mual and that person 369 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 3: will meet in the middle. At some point that mule 370 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 3: is gonna come down. The mule doesn't get to keep 371 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 3: that level of training, that level of skill. You can 372 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 3: think of it kind of like a knife, Like if 373 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 3: you just got you might have the sharpest knife in 374 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 3: the world, the best knife you ever had, and you 375 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 3: just leave it out. You don't take care of that knife. 376 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 3: You don't do anything to keep that knife sharp. Even 377 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: though you're not using that knife. That knife is good 378 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 3: adult just from being just just sitting outside. 379 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 4: It's going to go downhill. Well, that's what happens to 380 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 4: the meals too. 381 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 3: They got a meal, they bought a nice meal. It's awesome, 382 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 3: but it's just sitting outside. 383 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 4: You got to keep that thing sharp. 384 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 3: You've got to get yourself sharp to keep that sharp. 385 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 3: And that's something in life I've learned with anything, any 386 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 3: type of knowledge in life, any skill in life. 387 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 4: If you're not getting. 388 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 3: Better at whatever it is you do, whether it's mealmanship 389 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 3: or hunting or playing a guitar, if you're not getting better, 390 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 3: you're actually getting worse. We don't in this whole life. 391 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 3: We don't get to just stay the same. We're different 392 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 3: now at the end of the toward the end of 393 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 3: this conversation than we were at the beginning of the conversation. 394 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 4: We know more, we've learned, we've. 395 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 3: Chatted, we've talked, and things have changed, you know, they 396 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 3: really have. You don't get to be the same person 397 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 3: you We won't be the same person tomorrow as we 398 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 3: are today. And it's the same thing with the mule. 399 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 3: They're changing, so we better keep up. 400 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: I hope this conversation has given us insight into the 401 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: world of the mule, because, as with many things in life, 402 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: principles in one area often work in another. Master one 403 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: thing and you can master another. We've learned that a 404 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: core principle of natural horsemanship is also core to being 405 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: a good leader anywhere in life. A leader can't ask 406 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: the people that follow him or her to be something 407 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: that he or she is not. Again, it may sound 408 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: like voodoo, but it's the furthest thing from impractical. It's 409 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: the law of the universe. I want to ask Tay 410 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: about what he does in his mule clinics. 411 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 3: When people ask me what my job is, it can 412 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 3: be hard to explain, but basically my job is this. 413 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 3: I use mules and horses to teach people leadership skills. 414 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 3: So the mule is the vessel through which we teach 415 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 3: and explain and demonstrate this leadership. 416 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 4: One of my. 417 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 3: Favorite sayings is mealmanship is lifemanship. Mealmanship is lifemanship, meaning 418 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 3: how you work with your mule is how you should 419 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 3: work with yourself and everything in life. 420 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 4: I think we can be. 421 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 3: Better parents if we just use the skills that work 422 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 3: so good on mules apply that to being a good 423 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 3: parent to your child. 424 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 4: There's all kinds of principles. 425 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 3: That we teach in that. One of them is taking 426 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 3: ownership of your actions. Jocko Willing calls an extreme ownership. 427 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 4: He wrote a book about it. 428 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 3: I think everybody that everybody should read that because it's 429 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: a great leadership book. But this, this idea of extreme 430 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 3: ownership is basically, it's my fault. 431 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 4: It's on me in a good way. 432 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 3: It's not a poor, oh boohoo, pour me way. 433 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 4: It's hey, this is on me. Let me. 434 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 3: I'm gonna take ownership with this. I'm gonna fix it. 435 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 3: So I put the mule. When the mule gets scared, 436 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 3: I don't say, oh, geezu, this meal is so scared, 437 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 3: what's wrong with you? Or if the mule does something 438 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 3: that I'm not happy about, well, what's wrong with you? 439 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 4: What are you doing? No, I say, okay, how can 440 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 4: I help you? 441 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: What can I do to change this? 442 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 4: It's on me. I don't blame the animal. I'm the 443 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 4: one that brought the mule into my life. In real life, 444 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 4: it's the same thing. 445 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 3: I can't get mad at my kid, one my daughters 446 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 3: for doing something that I didn't explain. Well maybe, and 447 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 3: I'm definitely, I'm definitely guilty of this. You know, tell 448 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 3: me go do something, but don't give all the directions 449 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 3: that you really should because you're in a hurry. Well, 450 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 3: that's on me. You know, I can't get mad at 451 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 3: him because I didn't explain it. Well, you know, another 452 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: thing is and we've talked about a little bit, but 453 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: like being flat in your emotions, working with these animals 454 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 3: and controlling your emotions and being present and getting quiet, 455 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 3: you know, take that into your life, take that into 456 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 3: the work, into your office, whatever you do for your 457 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 3: living to take it to the shop, take it to 458 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 3: out in the field. You know, something goes wrong, it's 459 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 3: all right, it's okay, no, big bill, we got this. 460 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 3: You reset and you go again. You don't need to 461 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 3: get upset about it. But it doesn't help anything to 462 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 3: get upset. I figured that out a long time ago 463 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 3: with meals and horses. Getting upset solves nothing, nothing, It 464 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 3: doesn't help me. So controlling those emotions is so important 465 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 3: in every example of life. 466 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: When you talk about going flat, I think there's a 467 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: lot of application there with the way that we deal 468 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: with people, because I think we all the time go 469 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: into a relationship, whether it's with your spouse, or with 470 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: your boss, or with your kids or with your neighbor, 471 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: we go into some kind of engagement with a completely 472 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: filled in graph of how this person is going to respond, 473 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: and it influences the way that I even talk to 474 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: them and deal with them, and oftentimes it could be negative. 475 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: And if you came into the situation just thinking the 476 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: best of someone, giving them the opportunity to make the 477 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: right choice, and not preloading the thing with your I 478 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: know they're about to say something stupid or I know 479 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: they're about to do this wrong. And I think people 480 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: would read our will read our confidence, They'll read our 481 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: our intent. I mean, because humans are the same way, 482 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: like a mule can pick up your energy from forty 483 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: feet away, he sees you just the same way with 484 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: your spouse, with your boss, And uh so I really 485 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: like that kind of go flat. It doesn't mean die 486 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: to your emotions. I mean, like emotions are okay if 487 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: they're used right, but but it means don't but don't 488 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: come preloaded thinking how someone's going to respond. 489 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 3: The science behind this being able to control your emotions 490 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 3: and be flat like we're talking about, or be neutral 491 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 3: is learning to self regulate, learning how to have coping skills. 492 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: And that's what you're asking a mule to do too. 493 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 4: That's exactly it. 494 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,959 Speaker 3: I want the mule to learn coping skills, to learn 495 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 3: how self regulate. So when I'm trying to get a 496 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 3: mule to be you know, good in in maybe a 497 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 3: scary situation or a crossing a big deep river, yeah, 498 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 3: anything just that they might scare them. Well, I learned 499 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 3: that they're scared of that, not because they just. 500 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 4: Want to be wimpy. They don't know. 501 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 3: It's just like think back when you learn how to 502 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 3: drive pick up. My dad taught taught us how to drive. 503 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 3: I was probably I don't know, probably twelve thirteen years old. 504 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 3: We just drive round out back in our little side 505 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: pasture we had and he just let us drive the 506 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 3: trucks around. 507 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 4: Well, I was pretty nervous. 508 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 3: You know, I was pretty scared to drive in that 509 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 3: little circle of the pasture. 510 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: You know. 511 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 3: Well, now I drive, I drive across the country in 512 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 3: a couple of days. Don't even I mean, don't even 513 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 3: blink an eye at it. Just it doesn't even phasee 514 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 3: me to drive, you know. But I learned how to 515 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 3: deal with those situations a little out of time. With 516 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 3: the mules, it's the same way. I'm not just going 517 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 3: to throw them in the deep end. I'm not gonna 518 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 3: just just totally saturate them with something that's scary. I 519 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 3: do a little out of time and controlled and do 520 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 3: you know, engage you a little stimulus. Maybe they're scared 521 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 3: of some dogs, maybe they're scared of you know anything, 522 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 3: Walmart bag that'll always get Walmart bags. 523 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 4: Whatever it is. 524 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 3: We just do a little out of time and we'll 525 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,719 Speaker 3: expose them to the stress a little bit, and then 526 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 3: we back off the stress and we wait and let 527 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 3: them totally self regulate and come down off of that 528 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 3: small amount of. 529 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 4: Stress before we add more. That way, we don't trigger stack. 530 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: I don't want to pile this stuff on the mule 531 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: because you might trigger stack, trigger stacked, trigger stack, and 532 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 3: then that's where you hear people say. 533 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 4: Wow, the clear blue my mule blew up. No it didn't. 534 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,959 Speaker 3: It's been it's been stacking on the stress. It's just 535 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 3: like it's just like us getting stressed about something something dumb, 536 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 3: or you get mad at your your kids or your 537 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 3: wife over something really petty. Well, it wasn't that little 538 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 3: thing that you kid did that blew your top. It 539 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 3: was all the stuff all day that you didn't deal with. 540 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 3: So when you go work with the mule, you have 541 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: to let all that baggage out yourself. You've got to 542 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 3: get rid of all that stuff that you're packing in there. 543 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 3: You've got to set it aside so that you can 544 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 3: come in neutral and flat, because that's exactly how we 545 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 3: want our animals to be, and that includes expectations like 546 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 3: I'm just working my mule from where it's at right 547 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 3: now today. I'm not thinking about all the things I 548 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 3: hope it can do forever. And that kind of gets 549 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 3: confusing because we teach begin with the end in mind, 550 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 3: but that doesn't mean I have to focus on the 551 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: end result. 552 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 4: I focus on the process. 553 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 3: If I focus on the process, I know the result 554 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 3: will take care of self. 555 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: This idea of being flat of self regulation is a 556 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: powerful idea. I'd like to challenge you to do a 557 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: little exercise sometime in the next couple of days. Pick 558 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: out a stressful moment where emotions and tension have historically 559 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: been high. Think about like when you order for your 560 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: family at a fast food drive through that's stressful for me, 561 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: or when you walk into a crowded room at work, 562 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: or maybe when you catch your hard to catch mule 563 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: in your pasture, or maybe it's a hard conversation with 564 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: a family member. But when that happens, take a deep breath, deep, 565 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: deep breath, hold it for several seconds, then do an 566 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: elongated exhale. Then consciously drop the tension from your face, 567 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: your shoulders, your hands, like release the tension in your muscles, 568 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: and you can almost feel the energy drop to your feet, 569 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: like water pouring out of a bucket with a hole 570 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: in it. This I'm not asking you to have some 571 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: out of body experience. This is a combination of physical 572 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: and mental discipline. When I do this, I feel like 573 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: my blood pressure drops mentally. I then step into a 574 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: space where I'm not concerned with outcomes. I'm not defensive, 575 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,479 Speaker 1: I'm not aggressive, I'm not being pushed, I'm just flat. 576 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: You'll be surprised what you'll be able to accomplish in 577 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: that state of mind. To me, it's about governing your spirit. 578 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: To work with a mule or a horse, you've got 579 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: to be able to be flat. Sometimes, to work with people, 580 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: you've got to be flat. Proverb says that he who 581 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: rules his spirit is better than one who takes a city. Secondly, 582 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: extreme ownership, like Ty was just talking about, it's something 583 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: that I see exemplified in Warner, Glenn and Tie for 584 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: that matter. I found Warner to be fair confident, calm, 585 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: but energetic and productive. And I found his mules to 586 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: reflect that exactly. 587 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 3: A lot of times people will kind of not understand 588 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 3: what I do for living, like teaching these clinics and 589 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 3: doing these leadership chains and stuff. And I tell folks, 590 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 3: it's kind of like working with a dog. Like you 591 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 3: could send your dog to the trainer and it has 592 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 3: all these cool tricks and things that can do. But 593 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 3: if you don't know how to ask for those tricks 594 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 3: or ask for those you know, those commands or those things, 595 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 3: it don't matter what the dog knows, that doesn't matter. 596 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 4: It only matters what you know. So That's what. 597 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 3: These clinics do is it helps us build the skills 598 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 3: that we need. And the cool thing is is all 599 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 3: these same exact skills that we're working on with mules. 600 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 4: It's just life. It's just so much life. 601 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 3: And in fact, you have to work on this stuff 602 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 3: all day long to be proficient with the mules. In fact, 603 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 3: do you have to practice all this stuff so. 604 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 4: That when you finally get to your mule, you're good 605 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 4: to go the mule. 606 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 3: There's no such thing as practice to me, it's the 607 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 3: real thing every single time, when you throw your leg over, 608 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 3: when you catch them, when you're around them, it's it's 609 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 3: not practice. You don't practice being around the mule. You're 610 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 3: around them. So if you want practice, you gotta do 611 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 3: it all the rest of life and then pre seem 612 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 3: to get to thinking. 613 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 4: There's actually no such thing as practice. It's always real life. 614 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 3: It's always real life for me, something that I like 615 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 3: to work on a lot. And my coach I mentioned 616 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 3: Louis Field. He was a great coach to me. He 617 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 3: taught me so much. One of my favorite things he 618 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 3: taught me was visualization, like picture it, see it, see 619 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 3: it in your mind's eye, and so if I'm going 620 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 3: to go go ride my mule this afternoon work on 621 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 3: some things. Well, I'm sitting back thinking and visualizing, not 622 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 3: necessarily all the maneuvers and the training, and I'm going 623 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 3: to do this and this and this, and it's not 624 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 3: like that. I'm picturing what I want that interaction to 625 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 3: be like. I want to feel it. I want to 626 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 3: feel what that ride is going to be like. If 627 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 3: we're going to go ride in the mountains of Utah 628 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 3: and follow some hound dogs on lion hunt, I want 629 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 3: to what is that going to feel like? What's my 630 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 3: meal going to be like? I would visualize it having 631 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 3: a lot of energy, a lot of gold, because it's 632 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 3: going to need the energy to cover these mountains. I'm 633 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 3: gonna envision what's going to be like being around dogs, 634 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 3: and what's it going to be like riding to those trees, 635 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 3: and what's it smell like, what's the what do the 636 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 3: pine trees smell like? All this stuff I think about it, 637 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 3: and you know what, that stuff comes to pass. I'm 638 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 3: so glad that my coach Liuifield taught me how to visualize, 639 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 3: and he was very much a proponent of it. He 640 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 3: has us think about it all the time, and it worked. 641 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 3: It worked for riding brons back then in rodeo, and 642 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 3: it works for ride mules, and it works for relationships 643 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 3: you know, like and it's not just thinking about what 644 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 3: you want the mule to be. What are you going 645 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 3: to be to the mule? And that's the same thing 646 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 3: with an application to life. How do I want my 647 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 3: mule to perceive me? And if I'm coming to meet you, 648 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 3: how do I want you to perceive me? How do 649 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 3: I want you to feel around me? That's important to me. 650 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 3: And there's a similarity to how you make people feel, 651 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 3: how you're going to make a mule feel, how you're 652 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 3: going to make a dog feel. It's all the same. 653 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 3: It's all the same in life, and that's important to me. 654 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 3: I work hard of that and I try to share 655 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 3: that with my students. Anybody I'll get a chance with 656 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 3: is to think about that. 657 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: That's pretty deep water, tie, And I don't think that 658 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: he's being mystical, but I find this to be very practical. 659 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: There's definitely components of biblical faith inside of this functional 660 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: discipline of what he's calling visualization. I think it could 661 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: be described as having an active faith about how something 662 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: is going to go. I've view true biblical faith as 663 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 1: more practical than I've seen it portrayed in society, and frankly, 664 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: as i've seen it portrayed in much of the Christian Church. 665 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: The statement I've just made is like an iceberg, and 666 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: that's the ten percent of that iceberg that's sticking above 667 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: the water. There's ninety percent below it that that didn't 668 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: really fit for me to share in this silly podcast, 669 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: And this format is far too personal. It's stuff that's 670 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: not meant to be broadcast across the airwaves. It's the 671 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: stuff you've got to fight for that's really got to 672 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: be real inside of you. But I will add one 673 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: layer to this idea of visualization as well, showing a 674 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,320 Speaker 1: little bit more of the iceberg, and that's to add 675 00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: to that visualization declarative prayer. I think humans have a 676 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 1: very unique thing inside of us where we can reach 677 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: out to the Creator. The words we say with our 678 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: mouth are powerful, as well as the thoughts that we think. 679 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: Whether you believe in God or not, you will generally 680 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: become what you think and say about yourself. So think 681 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: and say accurate things. Don't be deceived about your capabilities 682 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 1: or be humble and say noble and powerful things. Think 683 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: these things not from a place of ambition, but from 684 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: a desire to be a whole, functional human. In closing, 685 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: and on a very practical note, if you're interested in mules, 686 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: I'd suggest going to one of the big mule sells 687 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: across the country. But don't go there to buy a mule. 688 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: Go there to talk to the people there about mules, 689 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: because they're there, and you'd learn a ton very quickly 690 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: just by talking to some folks. There are mule cells 691 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 1: all over the country, but there are some big ones 692 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,720 Speaker 1: in Aight, Oklahoma in the spring and fall. The Chrome 693 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: and the Canyon mule sell and Bryce Canyon, Utah is 694 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: a really good one. The Salmon Selects Sale and sam 695 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: And Idaho is a big one. The Reese Brothers mule 696 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: Sale in Lebanon, Tennessee is huge. The Jake Clark Sale 697 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: in Ralston, Wyoming, the Horses and Hounds mule Sale in 698 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: New Mexico, the Boone County Draft Horse and mule Sale 699 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: in Sedalia, Missouri. I mean, there are hundreds of horse 700 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: and mule sells, but these are some of the big ones, 701 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: and there are countless others that I've left out, so 702 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: please forgive me, mule folks. But there's a pretty big 703 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: learning curve when you get into equines and it just 704 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: takes some dedication. But I could have never done it 705 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: without the help of just people talking to me. Thank you, 706 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 1: guys so much for listening to Bear Grease. I hope 707 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: that you've enjoyed this episode. Thank you for listening to 708 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 1: Brent and this country life podcast and for Lake in 709 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,919 Speaker 1: the Backwoods University. And please go follow my friend Ty 710 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: Evans at ts mules on Instagram and check out his podcast. 711 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: And keep the wild places wild because that's where the 712 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: bears live.