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Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything. The meat Eater Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,

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Speaker 1: or scouting for el, First Light has performance apparel to

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Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com. F I R S T L

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Speaker 1: I t E dot com. Everybody's damn near your tax

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Speaker 1: day and we're gonna do There's two things that are

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Speaker 1: gonna happen on this episode. We're gonna get into two

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Speaker 1: things you never want to bring up to anybody. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about finances, and we're gonna talk about politics.

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Speaker 1: But we're gonna start with we're gonna talk about politics,

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Speaker 1: kind of politics and the intersection of politics and conservation

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Speaker 1: with Becky Humphries, who's been on the show a couple

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Speaker 1: times before, and we're gonna we're gonna dig in with her.

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Speaker 1: She's here in the studio, but joining us from not

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Speaker 1: in the studio is Susie Orman, and she just was

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Speaker 1: saying that we need to change start a podcast called

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Speaker 1: money Eater and We wanted to catch up with her

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Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. One because it's tax day

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Speaker 1: and we want to get some financial advice. And two

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Speaker 1: because there's some things I became aware of now. If

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Speaker 1: you're wondering, or if you you know, you've been out

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Speaker 1: of touch, or you're a little youngster.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Susie Orman is an American financial advisor, author of How

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Speaker 1: Many Books, A Lot of Books?

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Speaker 3: Ten ten ten, number one New York Times bestseller, and

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Speaker 3: I am just not a financial advisor, sir. I am

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Speaker 3: a financial icon of America. And you're young and you

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Speaker 3: don't know about me. That's why you're financially screwed.

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Speaker 1: Yes, if you don't, yeah, if you don't have a

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Speaker 1: big old boat, If you don't have a big old

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Speaker 1: boat yet, it's because you haven't been listening to Susie.

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Speaker 1: So in nineteen eighty seven, she founded the Susie Ormand

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Speaker 1: Financial Group, and her work as a financial advisor gained

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Speaker 1: notability notoriety with Susie Orman Show, which ran on CNBC

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Speaker 1: and for thirteen years, and does.

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Speaker 3: A podcast, I'll tell You My Brief History, which is

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Speaker 3: two time Emmy Award winner, twice named by Time magazine

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Speaker 3: as one hundred most influential person in the world. Recently

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Speaker 3: just named as one of the fifty over fifty women

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Speaker 3: who have changed this world.

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Speaker 2: And I could go on and on, but who cares.

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Speaker 4: About them over fifty?

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Speaker 2: No, it's true.

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Speaker 3: I actually said, well, it took you so long because

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Speaker 3: I'm mopped to be seventy three?

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Speaker 4: Are you really what?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look it up, you google it.

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Speaker 5: Why this is part of your research?

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Speaker 1: Well, no, I might have known. I might have read

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Speaker 1: that and then thought that's impossible because she looks too great.

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Speaker 3: But that's why it happens when you have a lot

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Speaker 3: of money. I haven't got any work done, but that's

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Speaker 3: besides the point as well.

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Speaker 1: Now, okay, you might be wondering, like, well, how why

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Speaker 1: this show? Because I found now I've known once upon

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Speaker 1: a time Susan and I for a brief period overlap

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Speaker 1: with our book publishers. But she's the reason she's on

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Speaker 1: the show right now is she's a mega fisherman, like

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Speaker 1: I got photos here of her with a stack of

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Speaker 1: wah who manages to live in Bahamas, which I need

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Speaker 1: to ask how that goes down? And when I first

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Speaker 1: reached out to her about coming on the show, I

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Speaker 1: see a picture of her where she's standing next to

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Speaker 1: a and electric reel, like a deep drop reel. Now,

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Speaker 1: normally if you meet, like you know, when you're talking

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Speaker 1: to a famous person in a fish and you get

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Speaker 1: their fishing picture, you're gonna get a picture of them

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Speaker 1: holding a fly rod with a rainbow trout in big

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Speaker 1: sky Montana, with a guide holding the net, or.

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Speaker 4: It's a marlin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But that was like old that she's standing with

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Speaker 1: a deep drop rig, and I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: a legit fisher person. Have you always fished?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 3: So when I was sixty five, many years ago now,

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Speaker 3: I had decided what would Susie Orman be if she

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Speaker 3: didn't have the number one show on CNBC for thirteen

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Speaker 3: years or how many of her years it was. If

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Speaker 3: she didn't have you know, standing ovations of fifty thousand

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Speaker 3: people at a time, if she didn't have this, What

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Speaker 3: would I be if all of that went away? So

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Speaker 3: one day I decided to sell five homes, quit my show,

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Speaker 3: stop writing for Oprah, stop being on TV BAM, and

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Speaker 3: we got a boat. And then we started to go

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Speaker 3: all around on the boat and our captain of the

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Speaker 3: boat because the insurance company made sure that I had

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Speaker 3: a captain. They wouldn't let me captain of myself I

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Speaker 3: could have, which did not go well with me, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't have a choice. Was an avid fisherman, and

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Speaker 3: so he would sit on the dock with us and

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Speaker 3: we'd have these little fishes, and that's all he thought

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Speaker 3: these two women could do. So finally we fired him.

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Speaker 3: We got him out of there right. I started to

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Speaker 3: take over everything myself, and little by little we had

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Speaker 3: moved to the Bahamas, this little tiny island where we

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Speaker 3: would watch everybody bring in these big fish. We didn't

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Speaker 3: know what they were because we wanted to also filley

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Speaker 3: our fish ourselves. We were like, we are not going

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Speaker 3: to be women who the help does this? The help

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Speaker 3: does that. We're going to do it ourselves. We're going

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Speaker 3: to fish, we're gonna captain our boat, we're going to

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Speaker 3: clean our boat, and we're gonna, you know, clean our fish.

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Speaker 2: And little by little we would.

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Speaker 3: Be asking questions like how do you catch a wahoo?

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Speaker 2: What's a wahoo?

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Speaker 3: And before you know it, we got the equipment and

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Speaker 3: we went out and we would try, and before you

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Speaker 3: know it, we started to catch And at first we

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Speaker 3: didn't know the difference between a barracuda and a wahoo,

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Speaker 3: so we'd have to bring the fish in and ask

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Speaker 3: somebody on the island is this.

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Speaker 2: A barracuda or is this a wahoo?

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Speaker 3: And little by little we got it down really well,

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Speaker 3: and it was I think it was just a few

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Speaker 3: years ago, maybe two thousand and eighteen, not whatever it was,

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Speaker 3: but a few years ago there was a wahoo contest

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Speaker 3: on the island and there were nine boats that went out,

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Speaker 3: huge fishing vessels with captains and all these lines. And

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Speaker 3: we had our little, you know, thirty two foot Boston

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Speaker 3: wayler were just two poles.

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Speaker 2: That was it, the two.

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Speaker 3: LPs, and we won not only the contest, but we

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Speaker 3: won the largest fish as well. Oh and now all

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Speaker 3: the men were and who had been wahooing and everything

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Speaker 3: for years, we became their targeters if they wanted to

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Speaker 3: catch us.

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Speaker 2: They never quite have, but we've.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm no longer known as the money Lady, which

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Speaker 3: was my nickname. We're now known on the island KT

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Speaker 3: and myself as the fishing girls. And when we go out,

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Speaker 3: you see the boats start to follow us because they

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Speaker 3: want to know where are we going, what are we doing?

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Speaker 3: And things like like the birds, Yeah right, they're watching

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Speaker 3: for us. Or we'll be somewhere and they'll come up

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Speaker 3: just to kind of say hi, and I know they're

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Speaker 3: marking my spot. So I'm always like, really, you have

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Speaker 3: to pretend you want my numbers, you can have it.

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Speaker 2: You're still not going to catch here. I love them,

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: Right right, But anyway, and that's how it started, little

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Speaker 3: by little. Now I have a massive lure collection, a

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Speaker 3: massive rod in real collection, and we use them all

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 1: How many reason are you good at cleaning fish?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's actually KT that cleans them, right, because that's

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Speaker 3: what she wanted to do. I didn't care one way

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Speaker 3: or the other, to tell you the truth. She is

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Speaker 3: magnificent at it. She does like cleans. You hold up

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Speaker 3: the thing and you.

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Speaker 2: Could see through it. She's fabulous at.

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Speaker 3: It, right, and she's and then we cry back it

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Speaker 3: and then we also share it with all the other

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Speaker 3: people on the island, the islanders that work there.

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Speaker 1: Oh excellent, Now I got a question for you. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned getting up to a position where you got a

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Speaker 1: nice boat. Now, one of our colleagues Chester, we used

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Speaker 1: call him Chester the Investor. His plan to get a

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Speaker 1: walleye boat was to throw in on bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good, I hope he did.

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Speaker 1: Well. He did, and he got out a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 3: Right, there's still a time for him to get in

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Speaker 3: a little bit now because on April twentieth there will

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Speaker 3: be a halving a bigcoin, so we should see it

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Speaker 3: if the technical stay the same, for bitcoin to probably

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Speaker 3: go up into the eighty thousand or so area. Obviously

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Speaker 3: it's in the seventy thousand area now. It might be

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Speaker 3: a little bit expensive to get in for a lot,

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Speaker 3: but he can always buy the etf I bit ib

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Speaker 3: it and make some money, not what he would have

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Speaker 3: made if he had gone in when it was at

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Speaker 3: its loan, not that long ago, at twenty thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: a bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Well, I make sure he tunes in. Yeah, how do

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Speaker 1: you what's your take if someone how do you advise

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Speaker 1: someone like Karn had found a segment where a guy

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Speaker 1: was trying to figure out if he could justify the

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Speaker 1: purchase of a twenty thousand dollars fishing boat. When it

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Speaker 1: comes to fishing boats, how do you instruct people to

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Speaker 1: think about what's too much?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he should go on. I can't I afford it

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Speaker 3: segment on the Women in Money podcast because it's the

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Speaker 3: hand of every podcast we have that And I'll tell him,

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Speaker 3: first of all, there is nothing that it's more expensive,

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Speaker 3: and I don't care what size it is than a boat.

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Speaker 3: Your engines are either breaking. Everything on a boat today

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Speaker 3: has a three year lifespan.

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Speaker 2: That is it.

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Speaker 3: Your batteries will go, your your switches will go, your

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Speaker 3: everything will go. And so it's hard to look at

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Speaker 3: a boat with something not breaking on it as you're

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Speaker 3: looking at it. So it's not can you afford to

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Speaker 3: buy a boat? Can you afford the upkeep on the boat?

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Speaker 3: Can you afford the insurance on the boat? Can you

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Speaker 3: afford the gasoline on the boat to really do things?

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Speaker 3: Because gasoline now is far more expensive than.

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Speaker 2: It was years ago. So where you're going to house

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Speaker 2: the boat?

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Speaker 3: Are you living like in Florida or someplace that a

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Speaker 3: hurricane could get the boat?

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Speaker 2: So there's all these things that go into it.

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Speaker 3: However, bottom line, you better have at least an eight

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Speaker 3: to twelve month emergency fund of what it would cost

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Speaker 3: you to live and pay your must pay expenses, your

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Speaker 3: mortgage or your rent, you're in, whatever it is, so

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Speaker 3: that if you got sick, you were in an accident,

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Speaker 3: you got laid off, you would be able to pay

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Speaker 3: those for eight months. You better not have any credit

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Speaker 3: card debt whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: You better be fully.

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Speaker 3: Funding your retirement accounts to the max. You better be

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Speaker 3: really so good when it comes to money. And then

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Speaker 3: if you have that, you already bought a home, whatever

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Speaker 3: it is, you can have a boat.

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Speaker 1: Good luck, man. I don't know if there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of boat owners list. It's always a good idea to

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Speaker 1: roll the dice on a big boat, because you never.

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Speaker 2: Know what's funny.

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Speaker 3: You guys, We've had a thirty two foot boat now

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Speaker 3: for since twenty sixteen. We are going on eight years

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Speaker 3: with the same boat. The men on the island, and

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Speaker 3: of course they would. They think bigger is better, all right.

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Speaker 3: So they have to go from two engines to three

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Speaker 3: engines to four engines. They have to go from a

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Speaker 3: three hundred to a four point fifty to a six hundred.

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Speaker 2: They're nuts. If one of them gets a.

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Speaker 3: Bigger boat, the others all get a bigger boat. I

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Speaker 3: have never seen anything like it. And then they say

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Speaker 3: to me, why do you keep the same boat?

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Speaker 2: What is wrong with you?

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Speaker 3: One reason I keep the same boat is one of

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Speaker 3: the reasons that I think that we are so successful

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Speaker 3: in fishing, especially catching wahoo. Is the wahoo, in my opinion,

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Speaker 3: like the wash off the engines of our boat, our engines.

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Speaker 4: And you get to stay out of what we call

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Speaker 4: a boat measuring contest, right.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I also just love beating them in

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Speaker 3: a smaller boat anyway, So what's the difference?

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Speaker 4: Well, that brings up a great point though, like when

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Speaker 4: you go to in vest in something recreationally, do you

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Speaker 4: measure in the mental benefit of being able to go

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Speaker 4: do something you love? Is that a factor?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And no?

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Speaker 3: It depends, Like obviously for somebody like me. I'm a

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Speaker 3: seriously wealthy woman, and if I wasn't, I shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: who I am.

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Speaker 2: To this day.

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Speaker 3: So I don't measure bigger necessarily being what can I

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Speaker 3: cannot do. I like to buy exactly what I need,

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Speaker 3: not what I can afford, because I can afford more

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Speaker 3: than what I need. I don't need more than a

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Speaker 3: thirty two foot boat, I don't, you know. It's just

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Speaker 3: me and Kate. It's what I need it for. So

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Speaker 3: just because I can afford it doesn't mean that I

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Speaker 3: want to buy it.

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Speaker 1: You used to be down. You used to advise people

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Speaker 1: that eating dinner out was a real financial.

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Speaker 2: Drain, such a drain it was.

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Speaker 3: Actually in two thousand and nine, I came out with

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Speaker 3: a book called the two thousand and nine Action Plan

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Speaker 3: because the economy was a mess. I was on the

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Speaker 3: Oprah Winfrey Show with it. We actually gave it away

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Speaker 3: for free, millions of copies we gave away for free.

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Speaker 3: But there were a few things that I asked everybody

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Speaker 3: in there to do, and that was to stop eating

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Speaker 3: out for at least six months. I thought the restaurant

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Speaker 3: industry was going to explode. They could not believe that

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Speaker 3: I said that. However, there was a white paper done

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Speaker 3: from Mint, which was a finance app and the number

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Speaker 3: one debt that people had when they had a lot

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Speaker 3: of credit card debt, the number one thing they actually

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Speaker 3: spent money on to be in debt was eating out.

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Speaker 3: So that's when that started with me. For me myself, sure,

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Speaker 3: I'll ead out if it's a business thing or we're

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Speaker 3: away and I don't have whatever. But even when we travel,

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Speaker 3: it's very funny. Maybe we'll go somewhere to do a

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Speaker 3: speaking engagement and we go on a private plane. Okay,

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Speaker 3: And now we bring our food with us and we

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Speaker 3: check into the hotel, and even though the sponsor will

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Speaker 3: pay for our food, we cook in our hotel room.

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Speaker 2: So we have a little hot plate. We do this

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Speaker 2: so I.

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Speaker 3: Personally don't enjoy eating out at a restaurant just to

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Speaker 3: go out and eat out only because I just I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think the food's better at home and healthier.

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Speaker 4: Well, you don't even have to use a hot plate.

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Speaker 4: If you got wahoo with you all the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well we bring that as well because we love wahushashimi.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so a lot.

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Speaker 3: But if you're there for a long time, because sometimes

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Speaker 3: you're a place for a while, then we had a

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Speaker 3: little hot plate. We had a little you know, fry pan,

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Speaker 3: a little this in a that, and we go to

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Speaker 3: the grocery store if we roun on.

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Speaker 2: A food and bring it.

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Speaker 3: So it was always people would always laugh at us as.

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Speaker 2: They would see us checking into a hotel.

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Speaker 1: Susie, I saw a photo where it looks like you

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Speaker 1: I might be looking at it wrong, but I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's a photo where you're sitting there with a

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Speaker 1: rockfish with a link cod that looks like it came

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Speaker 1: up with like you caught the rockfish, but landed a

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Speaker 1: link caught and a rockfish.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So there we are because every year we also

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Speaker 3: like to eat salmon, so we usually go to either

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Speaker 3: Alaska or British.

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Speaker 2: Columbia to catch our own salmon.

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Speaker 3: Great, and so there we were and I was fishing,

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Speaker 3: and I was actually fishing. I didn't even you know,

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Speaker 3: we had caught our quota of salmon and halib it.

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Speaker 3: So I was just kind of fishing and I caught

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Speaker 3: something and I'm bringing it up, and I'm like saying

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Speaker 3: to kt KT this is I don't know what I

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Speaker 3: got here, but I don't think this is just a rockfish,

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Speaker 3: because we wanted a rockfish in order to make tacos

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Speaker 3: out of it. And all of a sudden, I bring

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Speaker 3: it up and it's a link. God that bid it

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Speaker 3: would not let go, and so we caught both and

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Speaker 3: we bought growth homes.

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Speaker 1: Okay, give us a couple, give people a couple we'll

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Speaker 1: let you go after this, but give people a couple

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Speaker 1: tips on how they should handle their tax refunds. I'm guessing.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing that you don't advise people to go with

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Speaker 1: the play where you get the refund later as good

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Speaker 1: as that field.

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Speaker 3: Right, when interest rates were at zero percent and there

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Speaker 3: was nobody was making any money on CDs or money

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Speaker 3: market accounts or anything, then I didn't have a problem

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Speaker 3: with people getting a refund because they really weren't losing

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Speaker 3: any money that way, truthfully.

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Speaker 2: However, now that.

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Speaker 3: Interest rates in money market funds and this will change,

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Speaker 3: are at about four and a half or five percent,

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Speaker 3: or there's places that you can put money that are

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Speaker 3: safe and down and get a high interest rate. Who

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Speaker 3: wants to give the government an interest free loan over

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Speaker 3: a year's period of time of about five percent?

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Speaker 2: You have to be out of your mind. So you

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Speaker 2: would be far better.

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Speaker 3: Off now getting no refund, paying what you need to

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Speaker 3: pay and not paying over it. So just come out

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Speaker 3: so it's a zero, and in the long run you're

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Speaker 3: actually making more money. So that's how you make more

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Speaker 3: out of less, to tell you the truth. So it's

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Speaker 3: less of a refund, but in the long run, that

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Speaker 3: extra money.

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Speaker 2: That they're keeping, you would just be able to take.

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Speaker 3: That money and put it in an account for yourself,

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Speaker 3: maybe buy some bitcoin with it.

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Speaker 2: Just joking, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, Susie Orman, thank you so much for coming on.

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Speaker 1: Good look on your next fission trip. I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: you joining us. And that's gonna get everybody really pepped

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Speaker 1: up and ready to do their taxes.

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Speaker 2: All right, talk to you.

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Speaker 1: All right? Oh you know what's funny? So Becky, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna how you doing.

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Speaker 7: I'm good.

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Speaker 1: Did you learn anything there?

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Speaker 7: No, I don't own a big boat. I don't just

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Speaker 7: little boats, and and I try and balance my taxes

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Speaker 7: so it comes out even at the end of the year.

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Speaker 7: But I do have advice for people that do get

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Speaker 7: a refund and they need to donate it to conservation.

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Speaker 1: Oh there you go, yep.

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Speaker 7: And Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership would be a great place

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Speaker 7: to put it too.

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Speaker 1: That's excellent. We're going to talk about that a whole bunch,

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Speaker 1: but I gotta run. I'm going to run a couple

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Speaker 1: of Michigan things by it, and an a neighboring thing

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Speaker 1: and a neighboring thing from a neighboring thing from Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: Handful things we're gonna talk about. But just a funny

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Speaker 1: letter that came in so Pat Dirk, and it comes

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Speaker 1: on the show a lot the last Outdoor columnist. He

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Speaker 1: wrote a newspaper column last week. This is a while ago.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm looking at an old line. But uh, Dirkin

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Speaker 1: wrote a piece about to continued decline in Wisconsin's deer

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Speaker 1: hunting population, meaning the number of people buying deer licenses

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin is going down, down, down. You might be sitting, well,

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Speaker 1: why isn't my why aren't my permissions going up up up?

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Speaker 1: Which is a very long, complicated story, but those things

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Speaker 1: do not walk in tandem. Anyways, he gets a letter

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Speaker 1: from a guy who is of my favorite letters. And

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Speaker 1: the reason I like this letter so much is just

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Speaker 1: so happens that I'm leaving in two days to participate

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin's youth turkey season. But a guy writes in,

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Speaker 1: Who's who write? In response to Dirkin's column, writes in,

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Speaker 1: and it's signed Dave Michigan pissed hunter. He goes on

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Speaker 1: to say, though, Wisconsin, just like Michigan, has the same problem.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what from a guy that has

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Speaker 1: hunted all his life. When you turn over a gun

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Speaker 1: to a kid and they're allowed to shoot any bucks

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Speaker 1: that they want, and I've been hunting for the past

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Speaker 1: forty years, and I have to settle for what's left over.

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Speaker 1: And you wonder why people are quitting. You take all

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Speaker 1: the hunt away before the season gets to the big

402
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Speaker 1: hunt of the big opening day, most of the big

403
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Speaker 1: bucks are already gone. You have so many hunts, kids,

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Speaker 1: special hunts, ex bo regular bow. The regular opening day

405
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Speaker 1: big hunt is a big flop. Kid hunts and they

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Speaker 1: early hunts and stuff. Take the big bucks before the

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Speaker 1: day gets here, and you might think the big day

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Speaker 1: is just about the meat, and it's not. It's the racks.

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Speaker 1: Michigan prove that with given dough tags twelve total, but

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Speaker 1: at a cost, and hunters let them walk, want more

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Speaker 1: hunter cut the bull crap. Give the big bucks back

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Speaker 1: to the opening day big hunts. You might start to

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Speaker 1: see some other people come back, if it might already

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Speaker 1: be too late.

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Speaker 8: Dave, that is one impassioned.

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Speaker 1: That is one.

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Speaker 5: I assume you read it as it was punctuated.

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Speaker 1: I tried to pat was taken to be a great

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Speaker 1: T shirt. I have this T shirt of the guy

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Speaker 1: that wrote in Yeah, the guy that wrote in the

421
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Speaker 1: story about the just some unseemly behavior he was seeing

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Speaker 1: among turkeys in his neighborhood, and I think that that

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Speaker 1: might be a great T shirt. You've met Dave.

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Speaker 7: I'm sure I've met Dave all through your career through

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Speaker 7: there are more than one Dave in Michigan family.

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Speaker 1: I'll translate that. I'll translate that and be that they've

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Speaker 1: done so much do I need to translate it?

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Speaker 5: I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now you got the archery season, and you got the

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Speaker 1: crossbow season, and you got the youth. See really the kids.

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Speaker 1: And by the time it comes down to opening day

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Speaker 1: in Michigan November fifteenth, the Big Hunt, I like he

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Speaker 1: calls it the big Big Hunt.

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Speaker 8: Ye.

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Speaker 1: By the time the Big Hunt starts opening day of

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Speaker 1: General Firearm, the kids have killed off all the big bucks.

437
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Speaker 1: So if you're trying to wonder what happened all the hunters,

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Speaker 1: that's it.

439
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Speaker 4: By providing special experiences for everyone, you may be diluting

440
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 4: a singular experience that used to be for everybody. That

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Speaker 4: was that saying, he who is a friend to all

442
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 4: his friend to mine.

443
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 7: Oh and our memory gets a little cloudy too. Yeah,

444
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 7: you know, I have a deer on the wall of

445
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 7: one of the bedrooms in my home that my dad's

446
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 7: first buck my dad shot in Michigan and it was

447
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 7: a huge buck by his standards, it was a nine

448
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 7: point about this big, you know, and the and the

449
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 7: success rate back at that time when he shot that

450
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 7: for firearm deer hunting in Michigan is about it was

451
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 7: below thirty percent for the entire deer season. You know,

452
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 7: Michigan has been over forty percent for quite a while

453
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 7: now for firearm hunters in terms of success. So and

454
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 7: our deer heard. You know, the antler size has also

455
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 7: gone up. But you know, the majority of bucks out there,

456
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 7: you guys know this, or young bucks. I mean, we

457
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 7: exploit deer pretty heavily in this country, especially in the

458
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 7: Midwest where you have an open entry system, so people

459
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 7: take a lot of deer, there's no doubt about it.

460
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 7: But the majority of your deer are those younger deer.

461
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 7: And I think sometimes our memory gets a little feaded

462
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 7: on the glory years and what it looks like, not

463
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 7: that that happened to Dave or anything. But you know,

464
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 7: the other part of it is we are losing more

465
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 7: and more hunters as a percentage of the population. And

466
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 7: you guys know this, and you know it threatens our

467
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 7: our acceptance out there. It threatens our clout as in

468
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 7: politics and voting and regulations, and quite frankly, I you know,

469
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 7: I'm more than willing to give up that big buck

470
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 7: for a youngster. You know, by the time you get

471
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 7: to Dave's age, hopefully he's taken a few nice bucks.

472
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 7: I don't know if Dave has either, but you know,

473
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 7: hopefully you have and you've had that opportunity. But it

474
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 7: is about maximizing opportunity out there for a lot of folks.

475
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 7: And Michigan during those glory years, Michigan had over a

476
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 7: million hunters. They're down under a half million now what.

477
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 7: And so with that, your you know, your competition out

478
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 7: on the landscape overall is down from what it had been.

479
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I.

480
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 4: Think greater fragmentation of the landscape right which is.

481
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, a greater fragmentation we used to see in Michigan.

482
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 7: Michigan carried most of their deer herd in the Upper

483
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 7: Peninsula and the northern Lower Peninsula and everybody had their

484
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 7: little hunting camps and the rest of it. Now the

485
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 7: majority we kill more deer in southern Michigan than the

486
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 7: up and Northern Michigan combined. It's just you know, we've

487
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 7: seen this, you know, and not only Michigan. You see

488
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 7: a lot of deer down in Indiana, Illinois. The deer population,

489
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 7: quite frankly, is much higher than it had been fifty

490
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 7: years ago.

491
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 1: Beg, you adn't do a good job. I introduce you. Yep,

492
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that right now. Becky Humphreys is a

493
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: long time biole. Just started her career at the US

494
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service, then worked her way up through

495
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: the Michigan DNR too, became the director the Michigan Department

496
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: of Natural Resources, spent time at Ducks Unlimited, ran National

497
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: Ran an NWTF as the CEO for how many years?

498
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 7: CEO for five years?

499
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: So five years heading the National Wild Turkey Federation, and

500
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: then right now and I owe you big thanks on

501
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: this has stepped in as the interim CEO of the

502
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and there's a permanent search underway,

503
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: but you, very graciously, at very short notice, came on

504
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: board to run the organization during the interim. So oh,

505
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: your huge thanks there.

506
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 7: Well, thank you. It's a great organization. As you know,

507
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 7: we both sit on the board and you know when

508
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 7: we lost our CEO and pretty you know, short order

509
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 7: last last winter. It's one of those organizations you don't

510
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 7: want to see flounder. You want them to have a

511
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 7: great CEO and you want to to have great leadership.

512
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 7: So it was an honor to be asked and ain't

513
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 7: quite Frankly, I was feeling retirement pretty much. I'm gonna

514
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 7: try again, Try try.

515
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: You'll you'll get to retire again. The last last call

516
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: on Live tour tickets. So the live tour starts next week.

517
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: You're listening to this right around tax Day. The live

518
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: tour starts on on the twenty third. Live Tour starts

519
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: on the twenty third. Hang on second, me pull this up? Yeah,

520
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: who's got the who's got the dates? Hand here? I

521
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: got it? One minute? One minute, damn it? Okay, ready

522
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: April twenty third, we're gonna be in Mesa, Arizona, free people.

523
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: Not from Arizona. That means Phoenix but not. April twenty four,

524
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: San Diego, California, April twenty five, Anaheim, California, April twenty seven,

525
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: Sacramento twenty nine, Salt Lake City April thirty, Boise, Idaho.

526
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: Then May one, Missoula, Montana, May two Spokane, Washington, May

527
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: for Portland, Oregon, and then closing out the show Sinco Tomayo.

528
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes, those trees Sinco to Mio. May fifth, Tacoma, Washington.

529
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. A couple of things for folks searching for tickets,

530
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 4: be sure to either go through the meteater dot com

531
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 4: events page yep and hit those links, or the venues

532
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 4: the venues only those two places. If you just type

533
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 4: in these shows in the Google machine.

534
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: You'll want you want the resellers, and it.

535
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 4: Is grossly expensive. Yeah, so go go through the media

536
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 4: dot com events page or directly to the theater that

537
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 4: is hosting the show. And then, on top of that,

538
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 4: if you want to try to win some tickets, there

539
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 4: are pint nights hosted by b HI that proceed all

540
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 4: of these shows where you can actually participate in meat

541
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 4: Eater trivia. You can win a bunch of free stuff,

542
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 4: including seats to the show.

543
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: And including a seat on stage playing the game right.

544
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, but we got to find did we finalize

545
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 4: the game?

546
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

547
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 4: Oh okay, yeah, get on stage, match your wits.

548
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: Uh oh. Also, when you buy a ticket, here here's

549
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: the here's the ur Tidbut I'll throw in the last

550
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: little thing. You can see it both ways, but when

551
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: you buy tickets it comes bundled with the Meat Eater

552
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: Outdoor Cookbook Wild Game Recipes for the Grill, smoke or

553
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: camp stoven, Campfire Brand Spicketty new outdoor cookbook that we

554
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: have out right now, And I've been struggle a little

555
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: bituse I'm starting to put some pictures from the book

556
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: up on Instagram, and I'm like, I put one up

557
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: about I'm putting one up about. In the beginning of

558
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: the book, we talk about like all this ancient cooking

559
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: methods stuff dating back to the Ice Age and ways

560
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: people dissingc So when you open the book, I realized

561
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: that one of the first things you see is a

562
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: marmot who's had all of his hair burned off, which

563
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: is like how small. It's like how small game was

564
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: cooked at a time. You'd burn all his hair off

565
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: and roast it whole, and then its skin would turn

566
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: like a case. Then you open it up and the

567
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: meat inside was steamed. And I wonder when people see that,

568
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: if they can picture that, they're also going to eventually

569
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: wind up later in the book reading about a charred

570
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: lemon gin and tonic, So they think they're like.

571
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 6: What the hell.

572
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 5: Don't judge your book by its covering. Don't judge your

573
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 5: book by the first spread.

574
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: Don't judge a book by the intro photos. Don't judge

575
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: a book by the singed marmint.

576
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 5: I've been thinking about I've been waking up in the

577
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 5: middle of the night and think about those fish cakes

578
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 5: we made last week from the cookbook. And now I

579
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 5: think I'm gonna wake up in the middle of the

580
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 5: night and have this vision of a charred marmot.

581
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: Well, think about charred lemon gen and Tonics washing that

582
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: charred marmot. Back, Becky, what you take on the gray

583
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: wolf that just got killed in southern Michigan? How that transition?

584
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 7: That's a quick view turn. I don't you know, I

585
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 7: don't know enough about that particular animal to speak to you.

586
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 7: Just yeah, But I mean it wouldn't surprise me we

587
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 7: wound up having a gray wolf that we had collared

588
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 7: the Upper Peninsula that walked to Missouri.

589
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

590
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I mean we'll.

591
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: That suck across the Mississippi.

592
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean it crossed a hell of a lot

593
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 7: of territory between.

594
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: Do you think it ran on a bridge ice swim.

595
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: That's a big swim.

596
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 7: It could be a big swim, but you know, who knows,

597
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 7: you know, whether it probably you know they can swim, well,

598
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 7: we know that, and we know they cross ice bridges

599
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 7: whenever they're ice dams, and we know we know they'll

600
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 7: cross bridges too, you know, when they when it's low

601
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 7: activity and the rest of us.

602
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: So, but.

603
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 7: We've had we've had wolf sightings in the Northern Lower

604
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 7: Peninsula during heavy freeze over you know, across across the ice.

605
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

606
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, and so they come across the ice. We just

607
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 7: haven't been able to see find a dinner or anything,

608
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 7: you know, in the Northern Lower while I was still there.

609
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 7: So it doesn't surprise me. I mean, we've had black

610
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 7: bear in southern Michigan for well thirty years now.

611
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got a lot of black bears in central

612
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: and northern Michigan.

613
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 7: You know, we do, we do.

614
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: The wolf was killed by a.

615
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 7: U.

616
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: The wolve's killed by a This is odd. Was killed

617
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: by a guided coyote hunter. There was a guy on

618
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: a guided coyote hunt killed an eighty seven pound gray wolf.

619
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: They're holding the body. You know, grey wolves are federally

620
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: protected Yeah, in there and they're holding the body for

621
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: ANEE cropsy, and I think someone said, I think that

622
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: we'll find that it was shot, but also checking its

623
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: parasite load and maybe try to get some idea where

624
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: it came from.

625
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, they'll probably do DNA testing on.

626
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 4: It too, I'm sure DNA database, right, so they can

627
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 4: tell who's breeding with who and where the kids go.

628
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: Before the show started, you and I talked about another

629
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: Michigan thing I'd like you to speak to, and you

630
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: said you were disappointed on it. I've communicated with folks

631
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: from Michigan Nited conservation clubs on this. Is that that

632
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: explain how coyote management just changed in Michigan?

633
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 7: Well, the Commission Natural Resources Commission just voted to close

634
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 7: down the coyote season for several months of the year.

635
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 7: Up until now, coyotes have been legal to be taken

636
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 7: at any time.

637
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: But how far back does that go?

638
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 7: Oh, let's see. I probably we probably made that change

639
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 7: in the eighties or nineties as coyotes moved into southern

640
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 7: Michigan and populations, we really saw a big increase across

641
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 7: you know, most of Michigan and across most of the

642
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 7: Midwest coyote populations took off and people were seeing damage

643
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 7: from them, depredation, and so with that we opened up,

644
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 7: you know, the ability to take coyotes just about any time,

645
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 7: all year round, and so this shuts it down for

646
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 7: a period of the year.

647
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: Now here's let me give you my two different ways

648
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: of looking at it. One hand. On one hand, I

649
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: had a hard time getting worked up about it the

650
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:44,479
Speaker 1: change because I was sinking to myself. They are at

651
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: they are pursued as a fur bear by travers, okay,

652
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 1: travers and hunters, and if you go back any length

653
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: of time, I mean before the real biggest population explosion

654
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: in the South, I mean they were just like a

655
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: state people for bear and we're viewed as such.

656
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:03,959
Speaker 7: Right, that's true?

657
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: Uh, Red Fox, Oh, what season opens October fifteenth, whatever

658
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: the hell it is. There's a season raccoon. Depending on

659
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: where you're at in the state, you might have a

660
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: November one opener on raccoon.

661
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 4: Quick content, Well, we have a beaver, beautiful coyote hide

662
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 4: oh in in prime condition at like seven hundred and

663
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 4: fifty bucks on the auction house oddities.

664
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: Right now, yep, right off this wall.

665
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 4: But to the point that you were making. It's taken

666
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 4: during a season where that hide is prime prime, it's

667
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 4: it's full of for because it's cold out December January.

668
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 9: Is that yours from Montana?

669
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: It's mine from Montana, from the winter season, from the

670
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: wall to the studio.

671
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 9: It makes you realize that one of those is seven

672
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 9: to fifty.

673
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: Good chunk of money.

674
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 5: Right now they're one, But there's there's are there?

675
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: Crianzy canna start now?

676
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 7: I'm going to start.

677
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 4: There's a time in the season where that high does

678
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 4: not prime because it's warm and it's much more thin,

679
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 4: and it would not command the same amount of value

680
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 4: on like an open fur market.

681
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 7: Yes, and so I won't argue with you there. You

682
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 7: don't want two points, Okay, all right? Number one?

683
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: That's the number one point. I couldn't get worked up

684
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: about it because of that. But here's what I do

685
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: get worked up about, because I do get worked out

686
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: about it of when when they start, when people start

687
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: changing rules, and I don't necessarily agree with why they

688
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: changed it, Meaning if it had been the trappers or

689
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: hunters or the fur people saying what gives why are

690
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: you guys killing kyot's in the spring when it's with

691
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: pop season and then they're not worth anything than anyone anyways,

692
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: why not leave them for people that that that wanna

693
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: you lie or make a few bucks on them later

694
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: in the year. But so in your explanation of this,

695
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 1: who was pushing for the change, like was it coming

696
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: from them or no?

697
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 7: It was not coming from the hunters and the trappers,

698
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 7: So you know it was coming from individuals who do

699
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 7: not like the idea of year round killing of coyotes,

700
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 7: and I think the commission was uncomfortable with that. But

701
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 7: like you said, you held the same opinion I do.

702
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 7: It's not coming from the segment that wants to have

703
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 7: that population managed for maximum value out there. It's being

704
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 7: taken because we don't like the thought of taking coyotes

705
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 7: at that time of year. So what's happening now is

706
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 7: for individuals who have chickens or individuals who who are

707
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 7: out there and have deprivation issues. Now they've got to

708
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 7: go through getting a permit in order to take those

709
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 7: animals out of season, and I assume they'll be able

710
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 7: to do it. But every time you do that, you're

711
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 7: you're tying up a biologist time and energy to issue

712
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 7: a permit for what had been going on where they

713
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 7: could be actively managing some habitat so that you would

714
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 7: have better habitat on the landscape, you'd have better population management.

715
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 4: You know, it's and it's a species that we really

716
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 4: can't Yeah, it's put a dent down.

717
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 7: No, it's super abundant, and so you know, let's be

718
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 7: realistic about it. You know, it's it's one of those

719
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 7: situations where people might not like the thought of it,

720
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 7: but it's it's part of reality that coyotes do get

721
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 7: in trouble, they do cause depredation issues for people out there.

722
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 4: Doug Durren points out correctly, so that the pro argument

723
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 4: for year round coyote hunting is it's a superabundant resource,

724
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 4: and the anti argument it overlaps with that also where

725
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 4: it's like it's a superabundant resource and hunting hasn't been

726
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 4: proven to dent that resource, So why are you hunting it?

727
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 4: Because hunting isn't managing the population.

728
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: Whatever you're doing is not working, right, I can see

729
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: that are Yeah, Yeah, that's one of the that's like

730
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of a tongue twister when it comes

731
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: to coyotes is you'll often have people point out that

732
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: that with when you're hunting coyotes, you'll offset pack dynamics

733
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: and it'll actually lead to fragmentation and more put production,

734
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: meaning you'd have this this hierarchy that had some sort

735
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 1: of limit on who's reproducing. And then as you if

736
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: you kill dominant animals, you cause these like splintering factions

737
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: and it generates more put production. So kind of being

738
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: a smart ass, you might say, well, if you love coyotes,

739
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: why would you not want kyote hunting because you love

740
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: coyotes and it seems to be really making a lot

741
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: more of them, you know, meaning I love deer. If

742
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: I found that there was some thing hunters were doing

743
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: that was like producing tons of giant bucks, I would

744
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: be like, please continue, let's continue this because I love

745
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: these giant bucks. But they're saying, like I love kyotes,

746
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: don't kill kyos because it just makes more coyotes, which is,

747
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: like I said, it's an intellectual tongue twister.

748
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 5: I think it's less they love coyotes and they don't

749
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 5: love the idea of killing.

750
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 7: K Yeah, I think so too. And it's not just coyotes,

751
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 7: it's canines. I mean we see it with the wolf

752
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 7: population too. We've listed in d lifts listed wolves over

753
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 7: and over again in Michigan and the western Great Lakes population.

754
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 7: And you know, the solution when we had depredating or

755
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 7: when we had problem wolves that were getting in and

756
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 7: causing problems, when we couldn't do lethal take, and there

757
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 7: was a time when we couldn't, was to trap those

758
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 7: wolves and move them. And where are you.

759
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 5: Moving them, Colorado?

760
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 7: You're moving them into the territory of another pack where.

761
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 4: They're going to get brutally.

762
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 7: It's a brutal death sentence.

763
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: You know.

764
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 4: I think, what interesting thing we just just saw it

765
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 4: with this uh wolf that that got killed in southern

766
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 4: Michigan is the success of the anti killing of wolf

767
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 4: party is the death of an individual animal is a

768
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 4: paper thin degree away from the extirpation of the species

769
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 4: as a whole. So when you talk to somebody, well

770
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 4: they just killed the wolf, they're going to kill all

771
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 4: the wolves. Where it's like you just whacked a white

772
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 4: tailed deer with your bumper for the seventh time this year.

773
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 4: That doesn't equate to killing all the white tails.

774
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 7: No, And those charismatic species are special.

775
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: So who you going to vote for for president?

776
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 5: When you when you were at when you were Charisma,

777
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 5: when you were at when you ran the the.

778
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: Fishing Game Department in Michigan. In a role like that,

779
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: how do you grab like in a role like that,

780
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: how do you how do you how do you got

781
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: to handle partisan politics?

782
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 7: Well, you know, first of all, is a as a

783
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 7: state employee, which I was. You've got to be real careful.

784
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 7: You can't get engaged in partisan politics. You can't do

785
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 7: you know, you can't do partisan fundraisers that tie your

786
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 7: name into you know, advocating for one party or one

787
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 7: candidate or another. You've got to be really careful with

788
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 7: the Hatch Act that you don't engage in in advocating

789
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 7: for certain issues that go to the public.

790
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: Do you stop did you just do you stop voting?

791
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 7: No?

792
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: You still vote?

793
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 8: No?

794
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 7: I still vote, Yeah, And I vote. I vote primaries

795
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 7: the whole nine yards and always have always will. You know,

796
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 7: it's it's my right to help decide who gets elected.

797
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 7: And I think everybody should engage and vote how they

798
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 7: feel most you know, the candidates that best represent their views.

799
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: But you keep quiet about it. Yeah, you know when

800
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: you're in when you're in wildlife management at the state level.

801
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, you really can't. You know, well, I'll be honest

802
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 7: with you. I worked for both Republican and Democratic administrations,

803
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 7: and you know, it's tough because there's a lot of

804
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 7: fundraising that goes on as you get into campaigns and

805
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 7: get ready for election years, and you and you wind

806
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 7: up happening to be very careful. I was. I was lucky.

807
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 7: I had a commission that helped do fundraising, you know,

808
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 7: for gubernatorial elections when it was expected that cabinet members

809
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 7: would do that, which I was a cabinet member. But

810
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 7: as you know, as an employee, I can't do that.

811
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 7: I can't get into the partisan so very much bipartisan

812
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 7: you try and work with both parties. Unfortunately, that middle

813
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 7: ground is disappearing and it's it's hard. And I tend

814
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 7: to be a moderate in my political views, you know,

815
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 7: I step on both sides of the aisle. I tend

816
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 7: to be fiscally conservative and a little more liberal on

817
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 7: some of the social issues, and so between those trying

818
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 7: to find that common ground. You know, it's really hard

819
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 7: because the parties have We've lost the we've lost the

820
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 7: conservative Democrats and the and the more liberal Republicans. They're

821
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 7: just fading away.

822
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanted something spicier in that, Steve.

823
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not. I'm

824
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: not frustrating anything you're saying. I just I feel that

825
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:09,479
Speaker 1: they're faded away. They're faded away from the areas where

826
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: you hear from people.

827
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 7: I think they're faded away in our elected representation because

828
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 7: you know, yeah, I don't think you know. And I

829
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 7: think we hang with people that tend to share our views.

830
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 7: You know, they share our activities. So I agree with you.

831
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 7: I think there are a lot of folks out there

832
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 7: that are like me. You know, when I talk to folks,

833
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 7: they they express similar views. And I don't think it's

834
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 7: just because they're trying to impress me that we're so

835
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 7: much alike. I think they probably do. But both parties

836
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 7: have taken over so such non overlapping issues. It makes

837
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 7: it really difficult.

838
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: I hang with people that share my activities, but then

839
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: not the views.

840
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 7: Oh, I will agree with you there.

841
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of my dear dear friends I feel have

842
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: some just ridiculous viewpoints. I forgive him it because they

843
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: like to fish. Well.

844
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 7: It mixed for interesting conversations.

845
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: And the older I get them more Now when I

846
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: hear one, I don't even like I used to be

847
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: like I'd want to argue it. No, No, I'm just like,

848
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: that's funny.

849
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 7: Once you start that argument, it's ending the argument that

850
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 7: becomes the problem.

851
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I look for I look for. I sort

852
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: of am running this thing in my head. I was like,

853
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: when you cut all the bullshit out, I think a

854
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: good person, and you know, I'm like, yeah, man, they're

855
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: a great person.

856
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 7: Well do I trust them? Do I trust them to

857
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 7: leave the country or the state, or to make to

858
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 7: make wise decisions?

859
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah? But then am I going to go ask them

860
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: where I think where they think COVID came from or whatever?

861
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: Now like I might ask where that fish they call

862
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: came from? So in the so now right like you

863
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:11,879
Speaker 1: you've ran, you ran a big national conservation organization which

864
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: everybody's heard of, Nation Wild Turkey Federation. You're at the

865
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: helm right now of another federal policy conservation group TRCP.

866
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: Yep uh, How does an organization? How do these organizations

867
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: handle the partisan question? Meaning, here we are, we're coming

868
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: up on an election cycle, which I feel like it's

869
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: already been going on for three years, but it's it's

870
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: I guess starting, it started starting. It's gonna heat up,

871
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the most well, we're gonna have the

872
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: most expensive.

873
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 7: It's just going to be a wonderful year.

874
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: We're gonna have the most expensive presidential election ever. And

875
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if that really says anything about that

876
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: just might say something about the fact that every four

877
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: years it's more expensive. I don't know, most expensive, hotly contested.

878
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 5: There are some records that I don't really pay much

879
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 5: at times too, and when everything is like the most

880
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 5: expensive we've had yet, I think that's sort of a function.

881
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: Of advertising expensive. In four years, it'll be the most expensive.

882
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,280
Speaker 1: It's every everyone has been the most expensed.

883
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 5: I don't think we're going get to a point in

884
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 5: my adult life where we're like, man, this election is

885
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 5: half the cost of last one, the least expensive election

886
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 5: we ever had.

887
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 4: I think though, in state politics, especially some of these

888
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 4: western states that do not have large populations comparatively, that's

889
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 4: where those those numbers matter. Like I look at the

890
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 4: amount of cash that's going to be spent and is

891
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 4: being spent on the governatorial race right now relative to

892
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 4: our size, Like the dollars per person, the dollars per person,

893
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 4: and it's and they're going to spend it. Yeah, it's dollars, yes,

894
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 4: not proportions, not fractions of dollars. And they're going to

895
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 4: spend it, which means we are going to get robo calls,

896
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 4: texts in you know, just like those political ads are

897
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 4: going to be served to us every which way possible

898
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 4: for in an increasing manner like it does not bode

899
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 4: well for the mental health of Montana's Now.

900
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: No, when Davy Crockett was running for Congress, he would

901
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: do a little thing where if you came down and

902
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: voted for him, you'd get a shot of whiskey. You

903
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: could with the money they're spending, you could they could

904
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: hand out bottles of whiskey.

905
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, it is.

906
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 7: Expensive, and and elections and campaigns have gone to micro targeting,

907
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 7: so they've segmented.

908
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 2: You know.

909
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 7: They can tell now how you vote. You know, even

910
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 7: if you're in a state that you don't have to

911
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 7: declare your party, they can tell by your voting record

912
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 7: what you when you vote, which party you're most likely

913
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 7: to vote for, and they know, you know, is it

914
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 7: you know, are you a big fan of police protection

915
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 7: or not? Are you where do you stand on right

916
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 7: to life. They have all that information. So when they

917
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 7: go out and start walking for candidates, knocking doors, which

918
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 7: they do in hotly contested areas, they're pulling literature that

919
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 7: pertains to your interest.

920
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: That's really interesting you bring it up because the other

921
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,720
Speaker 1: day one of the we had a Senate a representative

922
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: from a Senate candidate knock on the door wanting to

923
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: speak to my wife. And when I informed him that

924
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: she wasn't there, I thought, well, now I'm going to

925
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: get the pitch. He just walked off.

926
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 4: That's amazing.

927
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: He knew, he knew who he.

928
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 7: Was there, he knew who he was there to talk to.

929
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 6: That's right.

930
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: So as you look at this, as you look at

931
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: the landscape, like, how do you guys, how does the

932
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: game work? Because here at TRCP yep uh speak from

933
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: that seat or the NWTF seat whatever, no matter what

934
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: administration comes in, you need to come. You're gonna need

935
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: to go to the administration, right or to appointees or however,

936
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: you're going to need to go there and and and say, uh,

937
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: let's work together.

938
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 7: That's right.

939
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: So uh, but you can't you can't make a big

940
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: bet in one direction and then when they lose you'd

941
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: be like, I guess we're out of the game for

942
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: four years.

943
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 7: Well you can't.

944
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: So you're what are you doing? Like, how are you?

945
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: How are you doing this?

946
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 7: Well, a couple of things.

947
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 4: You know.

948
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 7: First, we and others in the conservation community, we being TRCP,

949
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 7: sit down and identify our policy objectives. What are real

950
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 7: priorities for us, you know, for the next administration, be

951
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 7: it Biden to be at Trump too, and write those

952
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 7: up so that we can share those with those those campaigns,

953
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 7: because you're this next year is they're campaigning, they're forming

954
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 7: their policy planks for their administration. By the time they

955
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 7: they have identified candidates for those cabinet posts, they will

956
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 7: identify people based on some of the objectives they want

957
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 7: to achieve. So we want to get into them before

958
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 7: they're elected, and we do that with both parties. We

959
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 7: share those information. We try and go over that information

960
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 7: with those campaigns so they understand why why it's important

961
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 7: to us. And then as we move forward and you

962
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 7: have an election and administration comes on board, you need

963
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 7: to get in there and build relationships. You won't always

964
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 7: agree with everything. It doesn't matter what the administration is,

965
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 7: you're going to disagree on certain things. But you need

966
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 7: to have a working relationship and you build that trust

967
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 7: that they will share information on what's coming out so

968
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 7: that you can prepare for it. You can look for it.

969
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 7: You can let them know where you see that's going

970
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 7: to be problematic, that it hasn't been well thought out.

971
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 7: You can ask them to hold it over for more

972
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 7: comment so that you can they can get a more

973
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 7: robust view on some of the issues that you think

974
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 7: are have been not taken into consideration, or even hold

975
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 7: off on a rule or piece of legislation that you

976
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 7: think is bad for it. And by doing that, you

977
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 7: try and build that working relationship and trust with that administration,

978
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 7: and then you know you're careful in terms of being

979
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 7: true to your positions, so that if you disagree with something,

980
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 7: you do it in a manner where you don't surprise them.

981
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 7: You know, it's okay to disagree on stuff, but nobody

982
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 7: likes being surprised, So let them know why you don't

983
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 7: like it, and bring the information on why you think

984
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 7: it hasn't been well thought out. Make the ask, and

985
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 7: then if you have to do editorials or sign on

986
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 7: letters or you know, come out strongly on it, they

987
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 7: know they know that you don't agree with it.

988
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 1: They knew it was going to happen. New to thinking

989
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: on it.

990
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: Yep.

991
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: What do you run? You talk about like you have

992
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 1: your plan for the next administration. You have to run

993
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: like parallel two paths, right, because you might be looking

994
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: at like let's say you're looking at you're talking about

995
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: Biden too, Okay with that, you'd say, well, there's a

996
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: clearer pathway to climate issues, there's a clearer pathway to

997
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: wildlife overpasses through infrastructure spending, right yep.

998
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 7: But there was in the Trump administration too, Is that right?

999
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1000
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 7: Trump administration was very supportive of those migration corridors and

1001
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 7: they actually dedicated some funding to it. So both administrations

1002
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 7: are on that. But like Biden, we're looking at alternative energy.

1003
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 7: But the BLM solar plan, this is one that we

1004
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 7: have an editorial coming out on Joel's Gutten editorial on it.

1005
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 7: We're a bit concerned with Church with what they're identifying

1006
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 7: in terms of placement in those migration corridors for solar do.

1007
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 4: You might talk to a lot of Idaho folks who

1008
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 4: are real, real fire out because the BLM plan in

1009
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 4: Southwest Idaho uy he downwhere Snort got bit. But there's

1010
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 4: also California big horn sheep super like the genetics for

1011
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 4: like that really wide ass mule deer buck that down

1012
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 4: in that country, and big old pronghorn sage grouse. It's

1013
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 4: a very sensitive area.

1014
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 7: We're not opposed to alternative energy by any stretch of

1015
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 7: the imagination. I mean, we need to move into alternative energy.

1016
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 7: We just want it to be carefully thought out. You know,

1017
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 7: we need we need working landscapes that provide great habitat

1018
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 7: but also provide you know, clean water, clean air, food

1019
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 7: that we like to enjoy an energy and so, but

1020
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 7: it's about doing the pre work to make sure it's

1021
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 7: being placed in the appropriate locations that aren't going to

1022
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 7: have big, big ramifications for some of the species that

1023
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 7: we hold near and dear.

1024
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,879
Speaker 5: And I think there's a huge misconception that if you're

1025
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 5: supportive of alternative energy, that you're supportive of it anywhere.

1026
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 5: And I think, like from someone who as a former

1027
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 5: TIERCP staffer, like the some of the like the sessions

1028
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 5: I remember of people really hand ringing and pulling their

1029
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 5: hair out or looking at maps of solar placement, and

1030
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 5: like there's people on the ground working for you know

1031
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 5: that we're supportive of alternative energy, but recognize the threat

1032
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 5: and the danger of citing it improperly. And so I

1033
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 5: think like there's a lot of back and forth. If

1034
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 5: you follow the discourse about you know, it's either one

1035
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 5: way or the other way, and there's people on the

1036
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 5: ground that are really diligently thinking about how do we

1037
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 5: stop this in places where it's going to have a

1038
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 5: huge impact on wildlife and how do we do it responsibly?

1039
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 7: And we can have both. I mean that's the thing

1040
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 7: when you look at the acreage requirements, we have more

1041
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 7: enough acreage outside those corridors. Now there might be other

1042
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 7: species and concerns or landscape characteristics, historical significance, you know,

1043
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 7: a range of issues, but nonetheless we need to take

1044
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 7: into account these really critical areas. We saw the same

1045
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 7: thing in Michigan with wind power. You know, when we

1046
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 7: were putting up wind turbines the areas they had the

1047
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 7: greatest wind potential where right where birds migrated, and it

1048
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 7: was that's going to be problematic. I mean, if you're

1049
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 7: killing birds like crazy when they're and we got wind

1050
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 7: turbines located all down on the east side of the state,

1051
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 7: which is a major flyway corridor for migratory birds. That's

1052
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 7: a problem, you know, so we you know, in that situation,

1053
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 7: it was about pulling the right expertise together, mapping it

1054
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 7: out and looking at those wind maps and looking at

1055
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 7: that where those migration corridors were, and finding solutions to it.

1056
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 7: So you're placing alternative energy where it's going to be

1057
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 7: beneficial and not harmful to those species.

1058
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: Let me back up on the thing, and I'm not

1059
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: trying to drive you to give a drive you to

1060
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: give an answer you're not comfortable with, but I'm just

1061
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: not clear on it. Yeah, we talk about this this

1062
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: like administration planning. Do do you develop two or do

1063
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: you develop one? And like you develop one plan for

1064
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: the next four years and you're presenting it to each campaign.

1065
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 7: No, we do two. I mean, for one thing, parties

1066
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 7: talk different language, They use different phraseology, even though they

1067
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 7: might have the same issue, but they talk about it

1068
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 7: in different terms. And so you want you want the

1069
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 7: particular party that you're going towards to embrace this and

1070
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 7: use it. I mean, you want it to be their

1071
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 7: recipe book coming out, So you want it to be

1072
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 7: put in terms that resonate with other parts of that

1073
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 7: party plank and what they're doing, and so and there,

1074
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 7: there's and elements are going to be more attractive to

1075
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 7: one party over the other.

1076
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 4: They just are.

1077
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, by and large, you'll see more

1078
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 7: emphasis put on renewables with the Democratic Party, and security

1079
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 7: with oil security that's talked about more in Republican Now.

1080
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,919
Speaker 7: In reality, we just we've produced more oil and gas

1081
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 7: in this country with each administration despite the party, in

1082
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 7: recent years, is that right, Yep, it's been ramping up.

1083
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 5: I get a record high, right, yeah, in terms of

1084
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 5: oil produced in the US.

1085
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 7: And people don't recognize that, but it's true. We have

1086
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 7: as part of our national security plan.

1087
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: Gotcha, I understand what you're saying with tailoring it in that.

1088
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1089
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: And there also and there's probably cases where you're gonna

1090
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:53,919
Speaker 1: there's probably cases where you're going to drive at there's

1091
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: probably cases where you're you're asking for the same thing,

1092
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 1: but you're phrasing it as a different priority.

1093
01:00:58,960 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1094
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 7: There was also issues you know, we tend to the

1095
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 7: Republican Party tends to be a little more states rights.

1096
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 7: Then the Democratic Party looks for national solutions on those issues.

1097
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 7: So you know, that's another way that you're taking a

1098
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 7: look at it. You know, during the Trump administration, we

1099
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 7: saw a nice expansion and hunting and fishing on national

1100
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 7: refuge lands. And not only did they do that, but

1101
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 7: speaking as a state director, one of the things I

1102
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 7: really liked is they put out a mandate with that

1103
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 7: the regulations were going to be as close to the

1104
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 7: state regulations as they could be. So before you had

1105
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 7: if you were going to hunt on you know, refuge land,

1106
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 7: you might have different shell limits, you might have different

1107
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 7: days of the week that there was hunting, you might

1108
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,959
Speaker 7: have all kinds of different requirements that were a little

1109
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 7: different season requirements than what you had at the state

1110
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 7: on the state land. And that just gets complex, you

1111
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 7: know that, I know that, and so they tried to

1112
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 7: simplify that bring the federal lands closer in alignment with

1113
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 7: the state regulations.

1114
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 1: Do you feel is there any rumor or anything around

1115
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: would Trump return to Barnhardt as his Interior secretary? Barnhart Bernhart, Sorry,

1116
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: it was David?

1117
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 10: Is that David?

1118
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1119
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1120
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 7: Hey, I do know that David has stayed very engaged

1121
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 7: in natural resource issues, and you know, he was very

1122
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 7: loyal to Trump throughout the administration and even afterwards. So

1123
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 7: you know, I I don't know, but I would assume

1124
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 7: he'll have some role in the administration.

1125
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: I heard a a person very involved in conservation. I'm

1126
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,919
Speaker 1: not trying to be like, you know, secret about someone,

1127
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: Uh take a private conversation and apply it to someone,

1128
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: but someone very involved in conservation had said to me

1129
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 1: that what they what they liked about Trump's Interior secretary

1130
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 1: Part two, the second Interior Secretary, was that he would

1131
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: save you a lot of time by saying, uh, buddy,

1132
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: you're not going to get anywhere on this with me,

1133
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: and it would allow you to focus on the areas

1134
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: where he said, let's have a conversation and would tell

1135
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: you what's going to happen. Yeah, and then and then

1136
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: stick with that.

1137
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1138
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: And he said it was it just was. It was efficient. Yeah,

1139
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: I mean to to to spend time and resource there

1140
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: because you never wound up being that you wasted a

1141
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: bunch of time on something that you didn't know that

1142
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're gonna read the newspaper that

1143
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: things went in the direction you didn't anticipate.

1144
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 7: He was an honest broker in terms of telling you

1145
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 7: where issues were going if there was already a thought

1146
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 7: on it, so and and he he had researched issues also,

1147
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 7: so he had a pretty good handle on a lot

1148
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 7: of the conservation issues out there in that administration. You know,

1149
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 7: one of the things people probably don't realize is a

1150
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 7: lot of the staff support that comes in are the

1151
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 7: same folks. So you'll have administrations where you know a

1152
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 7: particular individuals in the administration they're a staff person, and

1153
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 7: you might switch parties for four years or eight years,

1154
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 7: but then you'll bring back a lot of those people

1155
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 7: that had worked during the previous Republican or Democratic administration

1156
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 7: because they kind of know the party priorities. And also

1157
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 7: they are very helpful in getting new candidates and new

1158
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 7: administrations in place and off to an effective start to

1159
01:04:55,200 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 7: move that agenda forward, because it's it's hard, especially if

1160
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 7: somebody comes in from outside government. You've got to make

1161
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 7: an awful lot of appointments, You've got an awful lot

1162
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 7: to do, to have executive orders written, and we've all

1163
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 7: seen there are more and more things being done by

1164
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 7: executive authority now and administrations kind of flip flop and

1165
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 7: reverse each other's executive order right out of the gate.

1166
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 7: And they do that by bringing back people who are knowledgeable,

1167
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 7: know how to write executive orders, and are familiar with

1168
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 7: the topic and have experience in it.

1169
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: We recently had a guest on talking about offshore wind

1170
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: offshore when you know electriacy generation, how do you yeah,

1171
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 1: wind power, wind power. At the end of the interview,

1172
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: I said, so, you know, when Trump wins in November,

1173
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 1: where is all this sit And he didn't have a

1174
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: great answer, but I felt like you could spend a

1175
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: lot of time working on something if you weren't being shrewd.

1176
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 1: You spend a lot of time working on something and

1177
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: then just have the rug ripped out from underneath you

1178
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:06,439
Speaker 1: every four years.

1179
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 7: Oh yeah. And that's why administrations work so hard to

1180
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 7: get re elected and have at least an eight year runway,

1181
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 7: because it takes, you know, it takes really a couple

1182
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 7: of years to get administration in and rolling, to get

1183
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 7: all your your appointments confirmed and in there, and start

1184
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 7: to implement that policy direction, and by then you're into

1185
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 7: the next election cycle. In your campaigning, the administration is

1186
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 7: and so you know, and and quite often what we'll

1187
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 7: also see is at the end of the administration that's

1188
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 7: when the promises that were made when they came into

1189
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 7: office get run through, and some of those, quite frankly,

1190
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 7: can be quite ugly.

1191
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 4: That's what I was going to ask is when, because

1192
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 4: both candidates would be their their last term, last four yep, right,

1193
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 4: So that's typically when, as you just said, like you

1194
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 4: get to capitalize on the earth promises, some of the

1195
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,959
Speaker 4: campaign promises they got them elected in the first place,

1196
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 4: that's right, or one that independent constituency. Right, We're like,

1197
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 4: is there going to be such a restart if Trump

1198
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 4: were to win? Would it hinder that last four years

1199
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 4: of getting ship done?

1200
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 11: Oh?

1201
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: Like as yours? Yeah? With does the does the break?

1202
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: Does the four year vacation sabbatical interrupt the momentum that

1203
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: you would have had your second term momentum?

1204
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 4: Yeah? Because what we saw right was like I think,

1205
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 4: like clean Water Act is always a great ping pong ball, right,

1206
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 4: Like God forbid we have somebody be like, yeah, some

1207
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 4: of that was okay, so we're just gonna return the

1208
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 4: pendulum to the middle, But instead you watch that pendulum

1209
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 4: go yeah, and it's it's.

1210
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 7: We're seeing more more of that.

1211
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So like that's what I'm I'm wondering, right,

1212
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 4: is like the first two years are just going to

1213
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 4: be like knocking those ping pong balls all the way

1214
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 4: back over to one side.

1215
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, yes, and no, I mean they're gonna

1216
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 7: if a new administration comes in, or even the current administration,

1217
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 7: they're going to have some individuals who do not you know,

1218
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 7: cabinet members and other appointees under secretaries who will not

1219
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 7: persist through the second term of the administration or with

1220
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 7: a new administration, they'll have to name a whole new

1221
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 7: cabinet and all those other appointed positions, and quite frankly,

1222
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 7: that takes a lot of time and energy.

1223
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 4: So they'll or, as we've seen in the past, not

1224
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 4: appointing positions.

1225
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's right, right, that's right. Not appointing positions is

1226
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 7: also a tactic out there, having interim folks and acting folks.

1227
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 1: That's an interesting tactic when you have divisions.

1228
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 7: When you can't get somebody confirmed.

1229
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 1: Well no, no, I mean that also, but when you

1230
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 1: just have areas in which you're not that interested, I

1231
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:13,839
Speaker 1: think you'd like to see downsize it's just the appointment,

1232
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: that's right, and.

1233
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 7: Leave lots of vacancies in the organization. Is there.

1234
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 9: Is there an area potentially with say renewables or energy

1235
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 9: production nationally. UH that that both administrations kind of have

1236
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 9: more of an intersection or similar thinking on that you'd

1237
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:46,679
Speaker 9: see as that uh as that issue might have national

1238
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 9: security concerns for example with solar or offshore or well.

1239
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 7: Both administrations have been ramping up, you know, hydrocarbon production

1240
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 7: in the United States, so we're more self sufficient there.

1241
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 7: So that has been an ongoing trend as we talked about.

1242
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 7: You know, I think yes and no think. I think

1243
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 7: you're gonna see both administrations wanting to get into market

1244
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 7: based incentives that are out there. I mean, we've got

1245
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 7: to be able to make carbon part of the economy

1246
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 7: in order to treat it effectively. This is my two cents.

1247
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 7: I mean, it doesn't make any sense to have national

1248
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 7: forests that are going up in flames and burning fiber

1249
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 7: and causing tremendous degradation of habitats out there, rather than

1250
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:41,599
Speaker 7: removing some of that fiber, mimicking natural processes and using

1251
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 7: that fiber and actually storing that carbon. So we've got

1252
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 7: to find ways that we can rebuild these local economies

1253
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 7: to have working landscapes. And we've lost a lot of

1254
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 7: that local rural economy. I mean, we don't have mills

1255
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 7: in much United States anymore in order to to even

1256
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 7: handle that fiber. Part of our problem with you know,

1257
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 7: there's been concerns with prescribed fire on the landscape because

1258
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 7: there have been a couple of fires that have gotten

1259
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 7: away from the Forest Service or state agencies that have

1260
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 7: been using it. But are we're using prescribed fire sometimes

1261
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 7: in cases where it's very different today than it used

1262
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 7: to be, where you know, you might run fire through

1263
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 7: an oak savanna or a pine savannah and one day,

1264
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 7: you know what the conditions are going to be, we

1265
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 7: can go out there and see what the humidity is.

1266
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 7: We have good weather satellite data. Now we've got big

1267
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 7: piles of logs that we have no mill to run

1268
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 7: it to. We've got no log haulers to haul it too.

1269
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 7: So you've got this huge pile of logs that are

1270
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 7: been cut and they're just stacked on the landscape, and

1271
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 7: we're using prescribed fire then to burn that pile of logs.

1272
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 7: What happens to that prescribe fire window? You know, anybody's

1273
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 7: had bomb fire, you know, it goes from a one

1274
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 7: day fire.

1275
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 4: Eventually you're standing around being like, oh my gosh, it's.

1276
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 7: A multi day fire, and then your chance of having

1277
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 7: fire escape from that. You know, you have winds come

1278
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 7: up in unexpected weather situations. When you have a big,

1279
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 7: big inferno going like that, you can't just kill it,

1280
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:24,639
Speaker 7: you know, and so it's very difficult.

1281
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,440
Speaker 1: You're talking about disposing of of stuff from thinning operations

1282
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:30,400
Speaker 1: because there's nowhere to go, there's nowhere to use, there's

1283
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,560
Speaker 1: no way to use it economically. Yeah, it might be

1284
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: to you, so it just has to get torched.

1285
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 7: It might be a salvage cut that goes in. You

1286
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:38,720
Speaker 7: might have a severe ice storm that comes in and

1287
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 7: closes roads and closes trails. You need to get that

1288
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 7: down material out of there. It might be win throw.

1289
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 7: I mean, we have tremendous areas in the Upper Peninsula

1290
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 7: and Lower Peninsula Michigan where winds race across those lakes

1291
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 7: and they will you know, certain events will throw trees down.

1292
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like an avalanche path on relative you know.

1293
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 7: Or it could be a thinning operation where you're degrading

1294
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 7: that forest. You're getting so much fiber and so much

1295
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 7: ladder fuel that's creating fire damage, you know, fire hazard

1296
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 7: and damage for the future of that forest. So at

1297
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 7: that point you want to remove it, but you know,

1298
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 7: you want to remove it and be able to use

1299
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 7: that product if possible, And that's where we need to

1300
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 7: rebuild that infrastructure in some manner.

1301
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 1: How do you as a as a federal policy organization

1302
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:38,920
Speaker 1: or you know, or a conservation group with federal scope, national,

1303
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 1: national level scope, how do you guys come in and uh,

1304
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: is it okay to come in and weigh in on appointments?

1305
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 2: Oh?

1306
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're talking about like interior secretary like

1307
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 1: that that an administration when they when when when a

1308
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:59,879
Speaker 1: when an administration picks it's it's secretary of the Interior.

1309
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: You're sort of like looking at just this hugely impactful appointment.

1310
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 1: It's going to be that's going to be your enemy,

1311
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: that's going to be your ally. Right? Is it Is

1312
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 1: there a pathway to come in and say, hey, that

1313
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 1: that choice ain't gonna work.

1314
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 7: Yes, there have been in the past with the going

1315
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 7: in and saying, you know, this is just not an

1316
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 7: appropriate appointment given you know what this person has done

1317
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 7: previously or what they are saying publicly on it, or

1318
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 7: we have concerns about working with it. But typically what

1319
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 7: we try and do is way in early in terms

1320
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 7: of the types of expertise or major issues that we

1321
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 7: think are coming up that that the administration should look

1322
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 7: at and consider for appointments out there. And quite frankly,

1323
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 7: most administrations coming in they ask key partner groups out there,

1324
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 7: who do you know good?

1325
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you get a chance, you could like slide

1326
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 1: a resume over. Yeah, are you are you up for

1327
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: that job?

1328
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 9: No?

1329
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 2: No, you're not.

1330
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 7: No, But you know, I went in and interviewed for

1331
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 7: Director of the Fish and Wildlife Service years ago, and

1332
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,799
Speaker 7: that's how it was. I kept saying I wasn't interested

1333
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:26,600
Speaker 7: in it, and it was like, we really want to

1334
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 7: talk to you, just come in and talk to us.

1335
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 7: So I flew in, talked to him for a day

1336
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 7: and told him who I thought would be really good,

1337
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 7: But it wasn't me. You know, we needed to make

1338
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:40,000
Speaker 7: deep cultural change in that organization at that time, and

1339
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 7: I really thought it needed to come from somebody within

1340
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 7: the organization, and and they did. That person came in.

1341
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 7: Sam Hamilton came in and was very effective while he

1342
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 7: was there. Unfortunately he died of a heart attack lead

1343
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 7: too early in life.

1344
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 1: Uh, before we start recording you're talking about we were

1345
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 1: talking about when you hit you uh, you ran the

1346
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 1: you ran the DNR in Michigan. And then later we're

1347
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: asked would you like to be a commissioner, and you

1348
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 1: felt that that was inappropriate to have like a former,

1349
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 1: like a former department head sitting on the commission and

1350
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: having I don't know, what's a confused power dynamic.

1351
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 7: Well, I think it's difficult. I think it's difficult for

1352
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 7: private organizations or nonprofits to have their past CEO sit

1353
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 7: on their border directors. Your border directors is your boss,

1354
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 7: and to have your predecessor be your boss puts you

1355
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 7: in an uncomfortable situation when you know there are key

1356
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 7: initiatives or changes that person made and you're recommending something different.

1357
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 7: I didn't have to deal with that when I was director.

1358
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 7: I didn't have any past directors. In fact, there haven't

1359
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,599
Speaker 7: been past directors on the commission before until the person

1360
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 7: that followed me was named on the commission for a

1361
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:16,560
Speaker 7: short time. And quite frankly I talked to him about it.

1362
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 7: He said it was awful. Oh okay, you know, and

1363
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 7: the groups try and use you also, you know, I

1364
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 7: get called now on issues where the sportsman's groups don't

1365
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 7: necessarily agree with the decision, and they want me to

1366
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 7: come out and publicly weigh in on it. Oh and

1367
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 7: you know, I'm not so sure my opinion at this

1368
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 7: point is any more important than anybody else's opinion out there.

1369
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 7: But the other part of it is, you know, I

1370
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,680
Speaker 7: think those jobs are really tough, and I don't want

1371
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 7: to make it tougher that person that.

1372
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 1: I was more bringing that up to tea up to

1373
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 1: another thing, is you would said before we started recording

1374
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:59,719
Speaker 1: to day, you're talking about what you're seeing in general.

1375
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: I'll have you put in your own words, but like

1376
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:11,799
Speaker 1: a general erosion of commission authority? Can can you explain?

1377
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 1: Can you real quick tell people, you know, speaking from

1378
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,599
Speaker 1: that you got fifty of these things like what are

1379
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 1: commissions and what do you mean by commission authority?

1380
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 7: Well, commissions natural resources commissions, and they sometimes are called

1381
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:28,919
Speaker 7: fishing game commissions, but typically they are appointed positions appointed

1382
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,560
Speaker 7: by the governor and then they are the body that

1383
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 7: either hires the director of the Department Natural Resources or

1384
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 7: fishing Game or whatever it's called in that state, or

1385
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 7: they are the decision maker on hunting and fishing regulations.

1386
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:50,080
Speaker 7: So you've got this this public commission with appointed people

1387
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 7: to help help insulate the departments directly from the governor's office.

1388
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 7: So even though you're part of the executive branch, you

1389
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:01,840
Speaker 7: know you don't. You have a little bit of buffer

1390
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 7: in there. And they also provide some real transparency because

1391
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 7: typically those commissions don't pass regulations, they don't hire directors

1392
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:16,520
Speaker 7: without public input. When I was hired, my interview was televised,

1393
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 7: so it was you know, it was a very public

1394
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:23,759
Speaker 7: process that went through in terms of selection.

1395
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:25,560
Speaker 1: Did they ask what your spirit animal was?

1396
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 7: No, they didn't ask what my spirit animal was. They

1397
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 7: asked an awful lot of other questions, So I got

1398
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:35,600
Speaker 7: to tell you. And but you know, that process of

1399
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 7: gathering public input on various regulations is really important, and

1400
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:45,839
Speaker 7: we are seeing now more and more directors are selected

1401
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 7: not by the commission but by the governor. They become

1402
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 7: gubernatorial appointments, which occurred in Michigan when I was there.

1403
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 7: I was the last commission appointed and the first gubernatorial

1404
01:19:55,960 --> 01:20:00,639
Speaker 7: appointed director. So the commission of the director, the governor

1405
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 7: in the state passed an executive order that made that

1406
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 7: appointment her appointment rather than the commissions.

1407
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 1: Because they just didn't like what they were getting from

1408
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 1: the Commission because they wanted to be just like more

1409
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 1: an instrument of the administration.

1410
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 7: Like, what is the push I think, you know, I

1411
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 7: think they you know, what I heard was you want

1412
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 7: direct accountability of your cabinet members. But I really think

1413
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:26,919
Speaker 7: when you get into office and you name your cabinet,

1414
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 7: you want to be able to name those cabinet members

1415
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 7: so that they're all people that are affiliated in helping

1416
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 7: move your agenda forward. And what the second thing that

1417
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:40,759
Speaker 7: has happened with that, though, is the tenure of agency

1418
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 7: directors has shortened. Now the average tenures less than three years. Well,

1419
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 7: it's hard to manage natural resources that have you know,

1420
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 7: long history lifespan, scientific the whole nine yards on really

1421
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 7: short rotation. So yes, I hear governors want that direct accountability.

1422
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:08,759
Speaker 7: But having some some transition and having directors span various parties,

1423
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 7: it's not all bad. It's good, I mean in my opinion,

1424
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 7: and I think having the Commission in there and most

1425
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 7: of your commissions are required to be bipartisan, so they

1426
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,840
Speaker 7: have the call for in various states. You know, commissioners

1427
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:27,920
Speaker 7: either represent a geographic location or they represent political party.

1428
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, or or uh in or factions of industry meaning

1429
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 1: commercial guides and guides and outfitters, commercial interests, agriculture.

1430
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 4: You need where you're.

1431
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 1: Trying to strive for some level. And I think that

1432
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 1: and I've heard and maybe it's just a tradition in Washington,

1433
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 1: but regionality, Yeah, I think you see specified regionality as well. Yeah,

1434
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,520
Speaker 1: because so many from the you know, west of the Cascades,

1435
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:57,880
Speaker 1: East of the Cascades, that's right.

1436
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,520
Speaker 7: Sorry, But with that, what we're seeing is those commissions

1437
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:06,280
Speaker 7: are both their authorities getting nit back, you know, sometimes

1438
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 7: through state law that you know, legislators are trying to

1439
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 7: enact laws on taking of game and fish species or

1440
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:16,760
Speaker 7: the method of take, and then the other way is

1441
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 7: they're losing their authority to a point, also a point

1442
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 7: a point your director.

1443
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 1: The director, Yeah, got him? And you generally are uneasy

1444
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 1: with this, I am.

1445
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:33,120
Speaker 7: I think it creates more partisan politics into the natural

1446
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:36,799
Speaker 7: resource arena, and I think it creates more of these shifts.

1447
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 7: And just like we talked about with executive orders that

1448
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 7: swing so far one way and then the other way,

1449
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 7: you know, that's that you waste a lot of time

1450
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 7: and energy.

1451
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:49,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, like ladies and gentlemen, we're all in on renewables.

1452
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:52,479
Speaker 1: Then ladies and gentlemen, we're all in on high.

1453
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 5: Slow down the pendulum a little bit.

1454
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1455
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 1: Uh, just I got a last question for you that's

1456
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 1: a little more oplicated, but uh, just an observation about

1457
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: the wild pendulum swings on. I mean, people like the

1458
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 1: bitch about gridlock, but I always like to remind folks

1459
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 1: that this is quite intentional. You know, we could be

1460
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:20,479
Speaker 1: like Venezuela. You know, hey we're communists, and then like

1461
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 1: a couple months later, hey we're ultra right, Hey we're

1462
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 1: back to communists. I mean, those are you know, when

1463
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:28,800
Speaker 1: people bitch about gridlock, I can have a.

1464
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 4: Little effect on your bank account.

1465
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 1: When people bitch about gridlock and all this, it's like

1466
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:37,680
Speaker 1: it's this is intentionally constructed that we don't go down

1467
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:41,760
Speaker 1: wild ass that you can't harness the moment and going

1468
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: wild directions all the time. Right, And so I don't like,

1469
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:47,680
Speaker 1: I get aggravated about the things that I want to

1470
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:50,360
Speaker 1: happen that don't happen quickly. But in general, it's like

1471
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,160
Speaker 1: it's as some stability.

1472
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:55,800
Speaker 5: The other people's stuff is going just as slow.

1473
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 1: It's better. Yeah, So if I don't get what I

1474
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: want and they don't get what they want, I feel

1475
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 1: okay about it.

1476
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:04,440
Speaker 7: Our issues tend to do really well though, during gridlock.

1477
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,320
Speaker 7: So you know, here's the other part of it is,

1478
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:11,840
Speaker 7: we might get frustrated, but we are usually highly effective

1479
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 7: when Congress or state legislatures cannot agree on issues. Our

1480
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 7: conservation issues usually do really well because.

1481
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:24,720
Speaker 4: You can be the awesome person who says, hey, I

1482
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 4: got something that everybody like, Yeah, exactly right.

1483
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:32,840
Speaker 1: There's no like hot button social issue wrapped up into it.

1484
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 7: Well, that's right. I mean in DNR, we used to

1485
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 7: call ourselves the Department of Fun that doesn't want to

1486
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:40,719
Speaker 7: support the Department of Fun. I mean, you have hunting,

1487
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 7: you have camping, you've got timber industry, you've got fishing

1488
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 7: and hunting and wildlife viewing. So I mean, but most

1489
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:53,839
Speaker 7: of our legislation we work in a bipartisan manner. Anyhow

1490
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 7: to try and get things so that you have both

1491
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,800
Speaker 7: sponsors of bills on the right and the left, and

1492
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 7: and introduce thos and try and keep them fairly evenly matched.

1493
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 7: So those we tend to be highly successful during periods

1494
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 7: of gridlock when Congress can't deal with the other stuff, and.

1495
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: They need to have something that they need to bring you.

1496
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 1: I supported this bill.

1497
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:19,559
Speaker 7: That's right.

1498
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 1: Uh, here's the one is here's one. It's more complicated.

1499
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 1: It's not complicated. Answers is complicated to ask.

1500
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 8: Uh.

1501
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 1: Everyone loves to talk to Gripe about ballot box biology,

1502
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:38,559
Speaker 1: ballot box initiatives. And also I find this is an

1503
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: area that really accentuates a lot of hypocrisy. Meaning I'm

1504
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: very supportive of the ballot initiatives that guarantee the right

1505
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 1: to hunt trap and fish. Okay, So I'll be like, hell, yeah,

1506
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:57,560
Speaker 1: vote yes, this is November for your states right to

1507
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: hunt fish. Okay. Then the next time some a ballot

1508
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:04,680
Speaker 1: initiative comes up that I don't like, I'll be like,

1509
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:10,360
Speaker 1: there you go, damn it, ballot box biology, right, putting

1510
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 1: it to the voters. That's not how you do it.

1511
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 1: But a minute ago, I was just avid, you know

1512
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: what I mean. A minute ago, I was just saying, Oh, you.

1513
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 4: Can get the uninformed mass to vote your way. It's

1514
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 4: a great thing.

1515
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 1: So people love right, like everybody complains about it, But

1516
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:28,880
Speaker 1: they complain about it only when there's a ballot box

1517
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 1: initiative that they hate. And when there's ones they support,

1518
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:33,639
Speaker 1: they're getting out the vote.

1519
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 5: Well, it's like people don't really complain about judicial activism

1520
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,320
Speaker 5: when the courts are finding in their favor.

1521
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:44,439
Speaker 1: Sure, you know. Yeah, So here's the question that's that

1522
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:47,719
Speaker 1: was just the observation. Is it really is there more

1523
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 1: of this now than there was? Or is it just

1524
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 1: always been this way? I mean, is it really more

1525
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:56,840
Speaker 1: ballot box biology and ballot box?

1526
01:26:58,320 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 9: What what?

1527
01:26:59,160 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 4: Wildlife?

1528
01:26:59,720 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 9: Man?

1529
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1530
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 7: I think we go through waves, to be honest with you,

1531
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:06,080
Speaker 7: I think there are periods. You know, when I think

1532
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,479
Speaker 7: back through my career, there were periods where we had

1533
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:13,400
Speaker 7: ballad initiatives that we fought and that we supported, and

1534
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 7: then you'll have a quiet period for a while, and

1535
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 7: then it creeps back up again. So it's usually when

1536
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 7: there's an action and a reaction that's out there and.

1537
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 1: Oh, like, I'll show you that's right, I'll give you

1538
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:27,400
Speaker 1: a ball.

1539
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:32,280
Speaker 7: But we have seen some of the national challenges towards

1540
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:36,360
Speaker 7: hunting and fishing. We have seen those been direct campaigns

1541
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:38,840
Speaker 7: that are now being fought at the state level. So

1542
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:44,160
Speaker 7: I think you see more activity to try and restrict

1543
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 7: and also promote hunting and fishing at that state level

1544
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:51,519
Speaker 7: than we used to do. Where it used to be,

1545
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 7: you know, we had more national legislation and the rest

1546
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 7: of it, and so there's more activism at that state level.

1547
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 1: So that is thing. Yeah, I think so, because you

1548
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 1: were saying earlier that big box, all the giant big

1549
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:07,680
Speaker 1: box and no one after him might have been a

1550
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,600
Speaker 1: bat might be faulty, memory might be faulty. But the

1551
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:15,320
Speaker 1: days back when they weren't ballot box initiating wildlife decisions

1552
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:19,080
Speaker 1: is new ish. Yeah, I you know, it's expanded.

1553
01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:21,680
Speaker 7: You know, I remember we had we had some back

1554
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:25,000
Speaker 7: in the seventies, but then really in the nineties it

1555
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 7: really came alive and then we've kind of seen it

1556
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:31,280
Speaker 7: dining down and now it's you know, we had periods

1557
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 7: across the country where there was a big push to

1558
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:37,120
Speaker 7: to do ballot initiatives to protect the right to hunt

1559
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:41,040
Speaker 7: and fish, and now you're seeing challenges again.

1560
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 1: Yep.

1561
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 7: So and we're seeing a big push right now in

1562
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 7: several states for trying to advocate for these commissions to

1563
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:53,880
Speaker 7: have appointments that are non hunters and even anti hunters,

1564
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 7: an angler.

1565
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 1: Zoo keepers.

1566
01:28:56,360 --> 01:29:00,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, we got a uh, everybody's got an test in

1567
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:02,879
Speaker 4: the state's wildlife, so we need to have those interests

1568
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:08,720
Speaker 4: represented on the board. Unfortunately, like that, never you never

1569
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 4: get to ask the question, well are there interests not

1570
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 4: being represented currently by our current management plan? We never

1571
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:20,599
Speaker 4: get to ask that. So what what is the impetus?

1572
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:20,920
Speaker 11: Right?

1573
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:21,479
Speaker 10: M hm?

1574
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean they're managing far more species that

1575
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:30,519
Speaker 1: aren't one hundred and fished than are and have been

1576
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:34,840
Speaker 1: for quite some time. Yeah, let me give you one

1577
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 1: last question, and then these guys might have a last question.

1578
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 1: You're not going to do the who are you voting for? Again?

1579
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:41,960
Speaker 1: How do you handle that?

1580
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:45,120
Speaker 7: I'm voting for my daughter, she's running for county commissioner?

1581
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 4: Nepotism?

1582
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 1: How do you handle that question? Let let let's let's

1583
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 1: roll play for a minute. I'm uh okay, I'm I'm

1584
01:29:56,680 --> 01:30:01,479
Speaker 1: uh running for president okay. And and some we're having

1585
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:03,800
Speaker 1: a meeting about agenda. He said, hey, I want to

1586
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:06,439
Speaker 1: hear from the big conservation groups about what you guys

1587
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:09,240
Speaker 1: are thinking. And I'm crafting my thing. And we finished

1588
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:11,599
Speaker 1: out the meeting, and and like you and I meet

1589
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:13,400
Speaker 1: in the hallway and I'm like, well, can I plan

1590
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:17,559
Speaker 1: on your support this November? Becky? Now you do your part.

1591
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:20,160
Speaker 1: I just did my part. Can I plan on your

1592
01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 1: support this November?

1593
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:23,960
Speaker 7: If it's a candidate that I was already planning to

1594
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 7: support and I felt was the best candidate, I would

1595
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:28,600
Speaker 7: probably let that individual know that I was going to

1596
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:29,839
Speaker 7: support them personally.

1597
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:40,080
Speaker 1: First, I don't have your vote. I don't have your

1598
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 1: votes to do that.

1599
01:30:41,080 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 7: No, I'm still deciding, but at this point I'm not

1600
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:45,000
Speaker 7: leaning towards this.

1601
01:30:45,320 --> 01:30:46,720
Speaker 1: But you know, that's what you'd say.

1602
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:52,360
Speaker 7: It depends on the situation. If I was in representing

1603
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:55,200
Speaker 7: TRCP at the meeting, I wouldn't answer it at all.

1604
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 1: But how how okay, how do you answer it? That's

1605
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 1: why I'm trying to the role play here. We are,

1606
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 1: You're representing TRCP, and I say I'd like to know

1607
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:06,559
Speaker 1: that I could count on your support this November. I'm

1608
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 1: just like, how do you do it?

1609
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:13,599
Speaker 7: I'm interim CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, which

1610
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 7: is a nonprofit. Legally, we cannot support partisan candidates.

1611
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 1: Hard argu trap me. Okay, that's good, that's good. I'm

1612
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:25,639
Speaker 1: just helping you rehearse because this might happen to you. Oh,

1613
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 1: I know, here's the last one. The last one I

1614
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 1: got from you, Where should people Where should people be

1615
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 1: paying the most attention in the next four years If

1616
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:42,479
Speaker 1: we're talking about just conservation with a big c right

1617
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:46,200
Speaker 1: like not not local, not necessarily local issues like oh

1618
01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:49,519
Speaker 1: they messed with our elk management plan, but like big

1619
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:53,479
Speaker 1: picture your kids are going to feel the impacts of this.

1620
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 1: Where should people be paying attention?

1621
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 7: Well, a couple of things I think they really need

1622
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 7: to pay attention to. Number one one is we talked

1623
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:05,559
Speaker 7: about it earlier, those working landscapes. As this country moves

1624
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 7: into renewables and we have more and more pressure on

1625
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:13,000
Speaker 7: the landscape, livestock and close proximity to wildlife in the

1626
01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:15,880
Speaker 7: whole nine yards, we need to make sure that we

1627
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:20,439
Speaker 7: are planning for that and putting together good overall policy

1628
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 7: and policy direction that accommodates both both renewable energy, people, livestock,

1629
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 7: food and wildlife, and great hunting access out on the

1630
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:38,280
Speaker 7: landscape and fishing. The other part of it is, I

1631
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 7: would say, on the accessibility issues to making sure that

1632
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 7: our public lands remain public and that the tools that

1633
01:32:46,120 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 7: we have in the toolbox for incentivizing private land management

1634
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 7: remain there and remain effective. We're trying to get a

1635
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:56,760
Speaker 7: farm bill through. You guys know, the last farm bill

1636
01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 7: expired in September of twenty three as one your extension.

1637
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 7: It's going to expire again in twenty four later this year.

1638
01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:10,000
Speaker 7: And that is the biggest piece of conservation legislation usually

1639
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 7: that we ever pass. It's huge. Sixty percent of these

1640
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 7: country is in private land, and you know that farm

1641
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:23,519
Speaker 7: bell provides tremendous incentives for people to farm the best

1642
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 7: and leave the rest. You know, it's kind of one

1643
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 7: of the catchphrases that we say out there, but really

1644
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 7: helps people steward that landscape and wildlife. They don't recognize

1645
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 7: property boundaries. I mean, the bottom line is we need

1646
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:41,759
Speaker 7: great public land management and we need great private land management.

1647
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 7: And I personally believe we need very good active management.

1648
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:50,479
Speaker 7: We can't just draw a line around it, leave it

1649
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:54,479
Speaker 7: alone and call it good unless we're willing to wait

1650
01:33:54,600 --> 01:34:00,720
Speaker 7: centuries for you know, restoration after major wildfires or you know,

1651
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:06,280
Speaker 7: for big storms and you know the huge blowdowns and

1652
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:10,360
Speaker 7: and you can't even use that particular land for a while.

1653
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:17,640
Speaker 1: Got it all right? So thank you for sharing. You

1654
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:25,000
Speaker 1: want to ask vote for me November. I will tell

1655
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:27,439
Speaker 1: you you know what you wouldn't do it for me.

1656
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:28,920
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna tell you right now you can count

1657
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 1: on my support, all right.

1658
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:32,559
Speaker 7: All right, I hope Terry's support.

1659
01:34:36,479 --> 01:34:39,960
Speaker 5: Anything else, guys, thanks for thanks for coming on and

1660
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:41,280
Speaker 5: thanks for all the work that you're doing.

1661
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:43,920
Speaker 7: My pleasure. We've got a great team at t r

1662
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,720
Speaker 7: c P, which you certainly know and and all of

1663
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:50,600
Speaker 7: you do, and they do great work, and they and

1664
01:34:50,680 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 7: they tackle the big problems, you know. I think that's

1665
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 7: the thing that tr CP I feel most strongly about.

1666
01:34:56,280 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 7: A lot of organizations play offense or defense on law

1667
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:04,719
Speaker 7: some policies, but TRCP really builds this think tank model

1668
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,640
Speaker 7: where they pull all the groups together and do the

1669
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 7: energy to try and build good policy direction and then

1670
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:14,599
Speaker 7: build that campaign from the ground up. That's pretty special

1671
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:16,840
Speaker 7: and it takes lots of time and effort.

1672
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:20,600
Speaker 4: Well, what, sorry, what do we gain by supporting a

1673
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,800
Speaker 4: group like TRCP, Because it's not a membership organization.

1674
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:23,920
Speaker 6: No, it's not.

1675
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:27,880
Speaker 7: It's not a membership organization. Most of our funding, about

1676
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:31,360
Speaker 7: two thirds of it comes through grants and foundations and

1677
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:38,120
Speaker 7: then personal donors and family foundations that donate on restricted revenue.

1678
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 7: But what you're bringin from it I think is the

1679
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 7: coalition pulling the organizations together around common ideas, big picture ideas,

1680
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:52,679
Speaker 7: and then doing the legwork to really invest and figure

1681
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:54,519
Speaker 7: out how we're going to solve those problems.

1682
01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate the life you've spent in conservation, and

1683
01:35:59,800 --> 01:36:07,120
Speaker 1: I appreciate you're measured, rational, well articulated perspectives on things.

1684
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 7: And then well thank you sir.

1685
01:36:09,439 --> 01:36:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that'll that'll. This will inoculate us from some

1686
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: of the nonsense that we're going to hear between now,

1687
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:19,040
Speaker 1: from all directions it's between.

1688
01:36:21,600 --> 01:36:23,600
Speaker 7: I know, I know it's it's going to be a

1689
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 7: tough year in that regard. It really is going to

1690
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:26,640
Speaker 7: be a tough year.

1691
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:29,120
Speaker 1: Well, hang in there. Well, maybe after the election you

1692
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:30,599
Speaker 1: can come back and then tell us what you think.

1693
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:32,920
Speaker 7: No, I'm I'm hopeful after the election, I'm going to

1694
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:38,160
Speaker 7: be retired. That's right, you re retired, retired, retired, I

1695
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 7: get it right.

1696
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:48,160
Speaker 4: This time we'll pipe you in like Susie or from.

1697
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:49,360
Speaker 1: Your thirty five football that's right, all right, thank you

1698
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:51,040
Speaker 1: very much, beg you special.

1699
01:36:53,840 --> 01:37:08,840
Speaker 6: Lot of hard praise the seand pattern. Hey, they they

1700
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:15,280
Speaker 6: always chant to love me all throughout the fall.

1701
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:22,360
Speaker 11: When it comes to springtime, they start dropping luck.

1702
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 6: They they only want for my hunt, and they only

1703
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 6: want before a fish.

1704
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:33,120
Speaker 3: And.

1705
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 6: They only want before the mouth. It's they come around and.

1706
01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:48,600
Speaker 11: They only want fort and they only want before the

1707
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:55,679
Speaker 11: sand tail crank. They want before the lactail buck, sandering neck,

1708
01:37:55,960 --> 01:38:01,640
Speaker 11: the real grand They only want forma hunt in.

1709
01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:14,800
Speaker 6: Only end hunt and seize me. They always found a

1710
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:20,400
Speaker 6: reason to love me and leave me for the next.

1711
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 6: In love, they'll say that they're sorry that you just

1712
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:31,800
Speaker 6: don't have time.

1713
01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 10: Oh, it's kind of funny, I guess if I, Oh,

1714
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 10: we shot the book, have been waiting for my time.

1715
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 11: They only want forma hunt. They only want for a fish.

1716
01:38:58,280 --> 01:38:59,599
Speaker 11: They only want before.

1717
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:04,000
Speaker 6: Oh, there's bot they come around Acra.

1718
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:12,040
Speaker 11: They only want before night. They only want before the

1719
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:17,160
Speaker 11: same to print. They only won't before the oct up.

1720
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 6: By sound green maccas prints. They only want for fight.

1721
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:38,439
Speaker 6: I know it took me a while to find leach

1722
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 6: after they tagged out that they.

1723
01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:50,280
Speaker 2: But now I know.

1724
01:39:52,120 --> 01:39:53,639
Speaker 6: They're gone on and Smile.

1725
01:39:56,200 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 11: They're gone on Smile, shallow wolves, they're gone on.

1726
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:02,320
Speaker 6: Stove smut.

1727
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:06,160
Speaker 11: There's pups come around Everca.

1728
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:13,960
Speaker 6: They're going on in smile family. They're gone on the stove,

1729
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:19,160
Speaker 6: Santo cran Bocco. They're gone, snow waped.

1730
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 11: Down Samarineck spoery of gran So they're going.

1731
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:30,920
Speaker 6: On the smile over my honey,