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Speaker 1: Just to fit in with the cool kids. She's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna slurp while I want, dude, you know something

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Speaker 1: what to do with slurp. I don't care about that.

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Speaker 1: I just want you to be drinking in more enticing beverage.

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Speaker 2: Do you drink beer? No, No, not at all.

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Speaker 1: Is this something that you intentionally removed from your life

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Speaker 1: alcoholic generally speaking? Or is it just something that you

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Speaker 1: don't find No, I.

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Speaker 2: Just I never I never acquired a taste for beer. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of a bummer because in Montana there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of breweries yeah there and like we have

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Speaker 2: a special brewery license where they can't serve any other alcohol,

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Speaker 2: no wine, no mixed drinks, nothing out of can like nothing.

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Speaker 2: All they can serve is beer. They brew on site.

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Speaker 2: And the brewers are awesome, Like they have live music,

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Speaker 2: they close at eight thirty, like it's perfect. But it's

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Speaker 2: just me drinking like Lacroix, which this kind of bummer.

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Speaker 1: There are the breweries up there, do they kind of

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Speaker 1: have like a family friendly vibe because that's something that.

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Speaker 2: No one's like being obnoxious, like it makes it really

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Speaker 2: family friendly because exactly exactly you're going to show up

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Speaker 2: at six, have one beer, and then like go home

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Speaker 2: and have dinner.

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Speaker 1: That's I'm all about that wholesome craft beer enjoyment. That's like,

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Speaker 1: that's what That's what we're all about. What's funny is Jillian,

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Speaker 1: we're actually gonna do. This is gonna be a very

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Speaker 1: different interview episode. We're all about experimenting when it comes

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Speaker 1: to anytime we have Jillian non I don't know, something

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Speaker 1: about you gives us we feel like we have the

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Speaker 1: freedom to be ourselves. So I don't know, hopefully you

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Speaker 1: take that as a compliment. We are already recording, actually,

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Speaker 1: and so I guess maybe we should still do some

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Speaker 1: sort of light introduction. The fact that we're talking with Jillian,

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Speaker 1: John's rude. You are a friend of ours. We've spoken

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Speaker 1: with you multiple times. You've got a new book coming out,

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Speaker 1: retire often. It's going to be out in a few months.

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Speaker 1: I will say this specifically September ninth. Is that still

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Speaker 1: the published date? Yes, that's awesome. But selfishly, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to have you on because we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: break over the summer. We want to make sure we're

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Speaker 1: doing it right ourselves, and so this is just kind

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Speaker 1: of an excuse to talk with you and to make

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Speaker 1: sure we're doing it right. We haven't really told our

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Speaker 1: audience yet. So and this.

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Speaker 2: Is the big announcement.

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Speaker 1: This announcement they've they've noticed because we're planning on some

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Speaker 1: of the couple Friday flights before this are going to

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Speaker 1: be a little different as well. That's true. So folks

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Speaker 1: are gonna be like, what's going on? Uh, something is afoots?

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Speaker 1: But uh did Matt finally get up a walk out

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Speaker 1: on Joel? Is that is that what happened? I'm still here, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm still here. We're just we're trying some different stuff. Well,

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Speaker 1: and it comes at a perfect time, Jillian, because this

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Speaker 1: is episode we're gonna record episode one thousand. Matt and

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Speaker 1: I we've been doing the podcast for over seven years now.

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Speaker 1: This is our eighth year. Yeah, crazy, and so like

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Speaker 1: there's like a little bit of like an Old Testament

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Speaker 1: year of Jubilee action here. Hey, let's take a break.

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Speaker 1: Plus your influence talking to you about this over the years,

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Speaker 1: reading reading your book, and and and just your take

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Speaker 1: on sabbatical's many retirements and just taking more time off

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Speaker 1: has kind of gotten through to it. Through our thick skulls.

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Speaker 2: I am so excited, but I I do not want

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Speaker 2: to be jipped out of my What do you enjoy

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Speaker 2: spending money on? Question? I? Well, you think you updated it.

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Speaker 1: You updated it because I remember last time you talked

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Speaker 1: about what's so funny is? I specifically remember you saying this,

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Speaker 1: How you talked about the money that you spend at home,

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Speaker 1: depot or lows. You basically called it monopoly money because you're.

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Speaker 2: Like, it doesn't matter, it's not even at all.

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Speaker 1: I don't track it. I'm just going to spend it

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Speaker 1: no matter what. I care about my garden. So have

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Speaker 1: you updated it since then? Or are you kind of

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Speaker 1: doubling down? Well?

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Speaker 2: No, so I have a new one. So I still

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Speaker 2: spend obscene ridiculous amounts of money gardening good. That is

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Speaker 2: not changed, but I have added so. Eight months ago,

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Speaker 2: I started learning tango because I am so obsessed. I

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Speaker 2: am all in on it, Like, take all of my money.

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Speaker 2: I want the lessons, I want the practica. I want

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Speaker 2: little malongas. I go to festivals. When I travel, I

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Speaker 2: do tango. I've been buying tango clothes, which.

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Speaker 1: Like belong as. I assume that was an item of

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Speaker 1: clothing it's not.

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Speaker 2: No, so the malong is a social dance, like where

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Speaker 2: you go for to dance tango? Okay, no, Like so

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Speaker 2: I'm in my forties, but like I for the first

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Speaker 2: time in my life, I am more in crop tops,

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Speaker 2: Like uh oh, do I have stretch marks? House? Do

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Speaker 2: I not have a six pack? Absolutely not? How many

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Speaker 2: cares do I have? Definitely zero. It's so much fun,

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Speaker 2: so I'm in it to win it. I love it

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Speaker 2: so yeah. But tango dancers, there's not many of us.

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Speaker 1: I gotta guess there's fewer of them up in Montana

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Speaker 1: as well. Like I don't know Miami, I'm guessing there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of tango going on, but Montana, Argentina, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: feels a little bit different. You gotta find the right

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Speaker 1: part of the country. Always fun to find a new

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Speaker 1: hobby and then go hook line and sinker all in

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Speaker 1: on it.

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Speaker 2: Oh and it takes forever to learn tango. It's like

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Speaker 2: such a long process. But if anyone needs his tango

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Speaker 2: and you're coming to Montana hitting up, I'm gonna be

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Speaker 2: like speaking in your city, like light yourself directly into

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Speaker 2: my DMS and let's go dance tango, because like it

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Speaker 2: and I'm learning to lead as well, so I can

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Speaker 2: dance with men and women and everyone like the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: I yeah, just take all of my money to learn

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Speaker 2: to chicken dance, guy, But tango sounds I'm the chicken

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Speaker 2: dance Joel loves the cotton eye Joe, especially as a

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Speaker 2: guy from the South. Okay, we can talk about many retirements.

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Speaker 2: But I had to, like I had to pitch tango

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Speaker 2: to anyone who's on the fence.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So yeah, let's talk many retirements. You've written, You've

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Speaker 1: written the book on it. We talked about this with

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Speaker 1: you some last year. You were kind of still you

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Speaker 1: were in the writing phase of this book, and uh,

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Speaker 1: and we really do want to get personal with this.

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Speaker 1: So you you also coach people right when it comes

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Speaker 1: to how to take in many retirement. If you're coaching

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Speaker 1: me and Matt here as we are getting ready to

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Speaker 1: embark on our first many retirement. Matt, you've never taken

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Speaker 1: one before, have you?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah, so I'm like sit and sail, you know,

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Speaker 1: slapping the champagne bottle against the side of the ship

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Speaker 1: and pulling up the anchor. I don't know, you want

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Speaker 1: to help us, help us navigate this absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So first question would be how long are you taking?

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Speaker 1: But well, it varies because we're still going to be

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Speaker 1: doing a little bit of work. But let's just say

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Speaker 1: six seven ish weeks. Okay, I feel like you're disappointed.

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Speaker 1: Is that not long enough? No?

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Speaker 2: No, that's awesome. Like, honestly, I think four weeks is

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Speaker 2: a great amount of time for the first mini retirement

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Speaker 2: because it's a little bit of a learning curve, and

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Speaker 2: especially when you're self employed, it takes so much effort

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Speaker 2: to be able to step away from work. It takes

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Speaker 2: so much preparation, and so the shorter time period like

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Speaker 2: the less risk you have, the less risk of things

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Speaker 2: burning to the ground while you're gone. But you can

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Speaker 2: kind of spread out that work. So the first one

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Speaker 2: you can do a month or two and then you

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Speaker 2: kind of get your bearings and you have some stuff

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Speaker 2: in place and you can build on that and maybe

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Speaker 2: next next year you take three months. Like the whole

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Speaker 2: summer you just go crazy, but it'll be that three

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Speaker 2: months will be so much better because you did the

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Speaker 2: first one. Okay, Well, not you say pointed.

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Speaker 1: The learning curve, Like, what is it specifically that folks

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Speaker 1: have to learn. Is it just learning to let go

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Speaker 1: and to like disassociate from work to like learn, Oh,

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Speaker 1: in fact, I like to tango dance. Now, Like is

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Speaker 1: it giving yourself the time or the structure or setting

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Speaker 1: boundaries or fences around your time to discover new hobbies?

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Speaker 1: Like what is involved with this learning curve?

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Speaker 2: So there's there's like a dozen ways a mini retirement

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Speaker 2: can go off the rails, and it's a little different

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Speaker 2: for everyone. But I would say one of the first

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Speaker 2: things I have people do is to really set the

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Speaker 2: intention for the time off. Even if and if you

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Speaker 2: want to pick two or three intentions, like that's okay,

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Speaker 2: but think about your mini retirement as like phases. Don't

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Speaker 2: like each of these intentions is kind of like an ingredient.

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Speaker 2: Don't mix them all together because sometimes they don't play

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Speaker 2: nicely with each other. And that can be one way

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Speaker 2: that a many retirement can be a little disappointing is

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Speaker 2: you're like, I'm going to recover from burnout and travel

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Speaker 2: to like seventeen countries and write a book. Like those

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Speaker 2: three things do not co exist. Actually, like you're not

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Speaker 2: going to do any of those well, So being really

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Speaker 2: clear on if I only accomplished one thing. If I

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Speaker 2: only accomplished one thing, what would that thing be, Because

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Speaker 2: it can be really tempting to be like, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to do twenty seven different things and feel a little

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Speaker 2: lackluster because you didn't actually make much progress on any

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 1: What sort of intentions do people typically set out with

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Speaker 1: going into a many retirement and are they usually more

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Speaker 1: vague in general or are they highly specific? Like writing

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Speaker 1: a book is a highly specific thing. Hey, in these

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Speaker 1: eight weeks or whatever, I want to come back with

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Speaker 1: a MAINI shript But for some people it might just

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Speaker 1: be a little more like I want to dive more

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Speaker 1: into the spiritual realm of my life or something like that.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, how do people think through those?

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Speaker 2: I would say a vague goal is okay, and it

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Speaker 2: also has to be specific. So really popular ones right

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Speaker 2: now are burnout. Like one of the last studies I read,

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Speaker 2: it's like eighty nine percent of Americans have experienced burnout

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Speaker 2: in the last year. It's just so prevalent that that's

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Speaker 2: a pretty big intention that people have a pretty big goal.

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Speaker 2: Extended travel, you know, stuff that you can't fit into

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Speaker 2: your nights and weekends, Like you just need more time

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Speaker 2: to accomplish it. Some people want to knock through kind

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Speaker 2: of their to do list. They want to get their

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Speaker 2: head above water. And whether that means like finishing up

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Speaker 2: house renovation projects or decluttering or just working through a

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Speaker 2: to do list, you know, big physical adventures, whether you're

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Speaker 2: preparing to like run a marathon or hike the Camino,

201
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Speaker 2: things that, gosh, it's just so tough to do alongside

202
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Speaker 2: the nine to five. Even tango. I took a month

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Speaker 2: off just just to learn tango because, like I said,

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Speaker 2: it takes a long time to learn, so to speed

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Speaker 2: up that learning curve, I went all in for a month.

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Speaker 1: So I love what you're saying totally, But there's a

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Speaker 1: part of me that also says, like, isn't this just

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Speaker 1: the American way of doing things where we're like, we

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Speaker 1: got to make the most of our time out, like

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Speaker 1: let's optimize to the you know, to the hilt, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to I guess the maybe and maybe this is

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Speaker 1: why the first thing you said was to kind of

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Speaker 1: recover from burnout, which to me just sounds like taking

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Speaker 1: a break, like taking it easy. In fact, what's on

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Speaker 1: your to do list is nothing? Is I mean? Is

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Speaker 1: that what it looks like to recover from burnout, And

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Speaker 1: is that why that that's at the top of the

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Speaker 1: list because folks are looking to not have a to

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Speaker 1: do list, They're not looking for a list of accomplishments

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Speaker 1: at the end of a mini retirement.

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Speaker 2: I don't recommend that it's it can be really tough

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Speaker 2: if people don't have a lot of practice or organizing

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Speaker 2: their schedule because they were in school and then college

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Speaker 2: and then work and other people have organized your schedule

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Speaker 2: for you for so long. It can be tough to

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Speaker 2: do that well. And most people don't intuitively know how

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Speaker 2: to recover, so it can be really possible to slip

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Speaker 2: into like the lowest common denominator, which might be like

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Speaker 2: scrolling Instagram and watching Netflix instead of doing things that

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Speaker 2: I like to call it like things that for you

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Speaker 2: are active rest, whether that's going for a walk or

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Speaker 2: going out to have a beer with a friend, or

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Speaker 2: traveling or reading a book or meditating, knowing what are

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Speaker 2: those activities that I do that actually help me feel

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Speaker 2: more rested. And you do have to schedule every minute

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Speaker 2: of the day, but if you have four or five

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Speaker 2: or six of those kind of on your to do list,

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Speaker 2: your to do list might look like take an up today,

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Speaker 2: take a bath, read a book, call my mom, but

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Speaker 2: it can be helpful. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: you look and you say, actually, I did exactly what

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Speaker 2: I needed to do, like I'm fully leaning into this

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Speaker 2: intention and I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: People can kind of feel a little untethered and a

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Speaker 2: little restless and a little bit like I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: if I'm doing the right thing right now if they

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Speaker 2: don't have a tiny bit of structure.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that's harder for folks who are

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Speaker 1: who work for an employer, for folks who are W

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Speaker 1: two employees who typically have things delivered to them, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to somebody who's typically been self employed.

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Speaker 2: Not really. I mean, most self employed people struggle with boundaries,

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Speaker 2: They struggle with work life balance, they struggle with prioritizing

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Speaker 2: their time. You know, they're constantly responding to demands, and

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Speaker 2: so yeah, they have a little bit more agency in

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Speaker 2: organizing their time, and most still struggle with it because

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Speaker 2: it's it's a hard thing to do, and.

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Speaker 1: Many of them work more hours than your typical W

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Speaker 1: two employee. So yes, yeah, in some ways work might

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Speaker 1: make up a bigger portion of their life than the

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Speaker 1: person who goes, you know, work at the office for

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Speaker 1: somebody else. Matt mentioned the American thing of over optimizing.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because many retirements in general, to me, they

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Speaker 1: come off as like a little French right when you

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Speaker 1: traveled to Paris, there's there's always a couple of trains

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Speaker 1: that aren't working. Take the month of August off, right, Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the whole country shuts down. Yeah, and there's like pros

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Speaker 1: and cons right because yeah, you run in you know

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Speaker 1: who you always run into when you're on a big

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Speaker 1: trip is Australians and they're like, yeah, we're just taking

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Speaker 1: a few months off, and it's just kind of like

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Speaker 1: standard part for the course. In America, we have this

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Speaker 1: like inheritance from the Puritans that is, hey, nose to

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Speaker 1: the grind zone. We're going to work our butts off

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Speaker 1: and we're going to succeed and prosper because of it.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, how do you help. I'm feeling

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Speaker 1: a little bit too as we go into this where

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Speaker 1: work has been an important part of my life and

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Speaker 1: creating this podcast in this business remains that and will

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Speaker 1: be that eight weeks from now. But how do I

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Speaker 1: detach maybe from this mindset that's become so ingrained.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there is, especially in work focused cultures, there is

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Speaker 2: a morality to work. Good people work, honest people work,

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Speaker 2: Dedicated people work. People who are committed to the outcome,

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Speaker 2: you know, work hard, and that is it is really ingrained.

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Speaker 2: So one of the kind of metaphors I use it

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Speaker 2: can be helpful for some people. I played basketball in

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Speaker 2: high school, was in a very like sports obsessed small

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Speaker 2: town in Montana here, and during the middle of the game,

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Speaker 2: you take a halftime. And this is true high school

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Speaker 2: all the way up to pro basketball. The most dedicated

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Speaker 2: players take a halftime, The most committed to the outcome

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Speaker 2: of the game take a halftime, The most hard working

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Speaker 2: players take a halftime, because that's the moment where you rest,

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Speaker 2: you recharge, and you reimagine how the next half of

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Speaker 2: this game is going to go. Because sometimes when you're

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Speaker 2: in the thick of it and you're in the moment,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to like pull yourself out of a mindset

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Speaker 2: or a path and really say, Okay, the first first

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Speaker 2: half didn't go so great, Like, let's think about how

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Speaker 2: we're going to make this different moving forward. And so

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Speaker 2: if you think about these many retirements as like, this

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Speaker 2: is what high performance people do. This is what people

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Speaker 2: do who are very committed to their work. When they're

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Speaker 2: very committed to the outcomes, they care so much that

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Speaker 2: they're willing to recalibrate and reimagine and rest so they

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Speaker 2: can show up more fully for the second half of

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Speaker 2: the game.

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Speaker 1: When you put it in terms like that, it makes

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Speaker 1: it seem like that we should be taking a year

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Speaker 1: off because we're about to enter into like midlife crisis.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean at the age we are.

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Speaker 1: I mean we're in our forties now, Like these are

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Speaker 1: like we start having some of these conversations, we start

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Speaker 1: asking some of these questions, we start thinking about like

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Speaker 1: we have family around us who are aging as well,

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Speaker 1: and it becomes incredibly tangible. And then you look at

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Speaker 1: your kids and you think, man, like the time I

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Speaker 1: have with you, it's it's limited, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: you obviously you've got you've got to balance that, and

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe we should have said this at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: Like this entire conversation is incredibly privileged, right. The fact

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Speaker 1: that a lot of how to money listeners won't have

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Speaker 1: the ability ability to do something like this maybe for

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Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe while they're clawing their way out

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Speaker 1: of debt. But I also think that there are a

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Speaker 1: ton of listeners who have been doing the right thing

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Speaker 1: for years or even decades. They were doing the right

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Speaker 1: thing before we even started talking on the mic joining

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Speaker 1: and so because of that they have the ability to

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Speaker 1: pull something like this off. That's an incredible position to

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Speaker 1: be in. So I'm pointing out the balance that you

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Speaker 1: got to strike between like feeling like you got to

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Speaker 1: follow your heart's desire and pouring into kids and what not.

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Speaker 1: And actually, so I mentioned kids, how do you think

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Speaker 1: about kids? Like you've got a bunch of kids? How much?

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because in your in your email, you

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Speaker 1: were saying, Hey, I would love to talk with y'all

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Speaker 1: if y'all want to talk about this before the kids

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Speaker 1: get out for school. It sounded like you were having

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Speaker 1: that shape the work that you were willing or to not,

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Speaker 1: you know, not willing to do this summer. How much

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Speaker 1: of an impact to your kids and your ability to

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Speaker 1: pour into them. How does that impact how you've you work?

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Speaker 1: How much you are willing to work?

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent? But can I loop back? Just because

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Speaker 2: we're friends.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot. Now I'll talk for like ten

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Speaker 1: minutes just now.

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Speaker 2: Because you mentioned like it being a very privileged position,

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Speaker 2: and I think there is sometimes this mindset of like

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Speaker 2: this is for people who have half a million dollars,

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Speaker 2: this is for people who make one hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: And it's it's funny on my side because I see

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Speaker 2: the whole spectrum of people. Everyone has a reason that

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Speaker 2: it's hard for them. The people who make two hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars say it's impossible for me to take a

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Speaker 2: month off because I'm too important, Like they need me

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Speaker 2: at work, Like there's no way that they could survive

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Speaker 2: without me for a month. Maybe they have the funds

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Speaker 2: to do it, but they don't feel like they have

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Speaker 2: access to the time where I took many retirements. You know,

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Speaker 2: me and my previous spouse, we never made a lot

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Speaker 2: of money. Like I worked a lot of normal jobs

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Speaker 2: that I worked at Starbucks, I worked at RAI, I

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Speaker 2: sold mattresses. And in the book, I talk about in

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Speaker 2: order to take a month off every year, Like if

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Speaker 2: that's kind of this goal, like this biggest aspiration, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna take a month off every year for my whole

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Speaker 2: working career, you have to save an additional six and

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Speaker 2: a half percent. And the great thing if you're only

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Speaker 2: bringing home two thousand dollars a month, three thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: a month, is we're talking like a couple hundred bucks

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Speaker 2: a couple hundred bucks, and you can take a month

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Speaker 2: off every other year and do these really incredible adventures,

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Speaker 2: have these amazing experiences because you don't have to replace

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Speaker 2: as much living cost. And and I in the book,

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Speaker 2: I kind of talk about like if you're earlier in

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Speaker 2: your financial journey, pick the more affordable things, like you

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Speaker 2: don't have to do an around the world cruise. When

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Speaker 2: I was in my twenties, you know, we had paid

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Speaker 2: off debt. I think getting out of credit card debt

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Speaker 2: solid goal when we were saving. But a friend and

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Speaker 2: I did a month long road trip DC to Seattle

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Speaker 2: and back in my hond my green Hondasoviac. Like we

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Speaker 2: slept on people's couches and we camped and like we

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Speaker 2: almost got stampled by bison. It was like a really

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Speaker 2: great trip. And I think it was like three thousand bucks,

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Speaker 2: Like it wasn't a massive amount of money. And I

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Speaker 2: paid for the whole thing, because I was like, honey,

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Speaker 2: I got the money, if you've got the time, like,

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Speaker 2: let's go.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. Now you're making me think, actually, I have

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Speaker 1: had a mini retirement. It was when I was like

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Speaker 1: twenty one. I was working in my first job in radio,

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Speaker 1: and I just had to wake up way too early,

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Speaker 1: and it was like the morning show, which is just

399
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Speaker 1: like the worstship that ages you like a president. And

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Speaker 1: so my buddy was like, well, let's buy a cheap

401
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Speaker 1: station wagon drive around the country. And we did for

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Speaker 1: three months and we had the greatest time, and it

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Speaker 1: cost so little money, and I didn't have almost anything saved.

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Speaker 1: So I think you're right that my mini retirement now,

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Speaker 1: with kids and in my forties is going to look

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Speaker 1: a lot look different. It's gonna look a lot different.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be the around the world thing, No,

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Speaker 1: it will be. But so I guess that's just me

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Speaker 1: projecting Jillian, where I'm just like, oh man, oh, I

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Speaker 1: guess like there's a certain amount of gratitude that we

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Speaker 1: should all feel to be able to pull something like

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Speaker 1: that off off all together. But what you're speaking to

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Speaker 1: here is that it doesn't have to be this amazing,

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Speaker 1: no holds barred sort of trip around the instagram worthy

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Speaker 1: many retirements. Yeah, yeah, the people got at and lustover.

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Speaker 1: But you said one hundred percent to the kids thing.

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Speaker 1: Did you want to touch on.

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Speaker 2: That, Yes, let's talk about kids. There is gosh. One

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Speaker 2: of I think the biggest motivations for people to take

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Speaker 2: many retirements is this idea that there are seasons with

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Speaker 2: expiration dates, Like if you don't do it now, that

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Speaker 2: window's going to close and there's no going back. There's

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Speaker 2: a whole bunch of things in your life that like

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Speaker 2: they just won't hold until you're sixty five. I remember

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Speaker 2: me and my kidd as were doing a ten week trip.

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Speaker 2: We did ten national parks in a pop up camper

427
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Speaker 2: with our dog, and we we'd already been on the

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Speaker 2: road for maybe seven eight weeks, and we were in Yosemite,

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Speaker 2: and I remember waking up thinking, oh, this is probably

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Speaker 2: the last time we can do this, Like if we

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Speaker 2: if we didn't do this now like this, this will

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Speaker 2: not sit on the shelf for fifteen more years. My

433
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 2: kids in their twenties are not going to be in

434
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: a pop up camper with me, all seven of us

435
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 2: touring the US without Wi Fi, and so there is

436
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 2: the sense of like, you know, retirement in your sixties

437
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 2: is great, but you might have missed your window. I

438
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: was talking about family and like parents aging. I was

439
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: just interviewing Doug who hosts them my Mile High five

440
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: podcast about his MANI retirement and he did a six

441
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 2: week trip to Alaska. And you know, all of his

442
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: friends are working, all of his siblings are working, but

443
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 2: his parents were retired. So his parents went with him,

444
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 2: and he was like, it was incredible, Like we spent

445
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 2: six weeks in the car with my parents. Like it's

446
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 2: so rare in middle age to get that much time

447
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: with your parents. Those days are so numbered. And he's like,

448
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: went to Alaska, it was so beautiful. We had this

449
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: amazing thing was twenty nineteen, and a month later his

450
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: mom got diagnosed with cancer and then she passed away

451
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 2: a year after that. Like that was they had no

452
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 2: idea about Like that was the last moment, that was

453
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 2: the last opportunity he could have done that. And I'm

454
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 2: sure you guys like are in the thick of it,

455
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: like many retirements are such a hassle, Like they legitimately are.

456
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 2: They're logistically challenging and mentally challenging and emotionally challenging and

457
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: financially challenging, and all of those challenges fade in the

458
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 2: rear view mirror every passing year. When you look back,

459
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: those challenges get smaller and smaller and smaller, Like Joel,

460
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: I'm sure for you, like looking back at the challenges

461
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: of taking that three month road trip, Like at the

462
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 2: time it was like, oh, this is like a lot,

463
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: and now you're like whatever, that was nothing, Like the

464
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 2: challenges mean nothing, but the experience in the rear view

465
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 2: mirror gets bigger and bigger and bigger and more meaningful

466
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 2: because yeah, your kids are young and like they're not

467
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 2: going to be that age again, Like this is your

468
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 2: one shot.

469
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: Okay, from our business perspective, right, we're piecing out of

470
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: here for a little while. They're going to hear I'll

471
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: call the classic Mat and Joel episodes that are still

472
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: worth listening to. Please do check your podcaster, especially if

473
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: you haven't been around long. They're gonna be They're great episodes.

474
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 1: There's a reason we call them besties, right. It kind

475
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 1: of tastes something good. So what should I how much

476
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,719
Speaker 1: should Matt and I be in touch with business stuff

477
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: while we're gone, even though we're not recording new content.

478
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: And what would you what would you say to the

479
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: worried part of me who's like a lot of these

480
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: people who are listening to this episode, maybe like five

481
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: weeks from now, they're gonna be like, I'm done with

482
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: those guys. Are they ever coming back? And yes, we

483
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: are coming back.

484
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 2: So not suppoific to you, but for self employed people

485
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 2: in general, for your first mini retirement, I encourage about

486
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: ten percent of whatever you normally work. If you can

487
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: reduce whatever your work hours are to ten percent, it

488
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: seems to be a sweet spot of like really allowing

489
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 2: you to lean into whatever those goals or intentions are

490
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: while not adding additional stress that things are burning down,

491
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: Like it actually takes sometimes more emotional energy to not

492
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 2: know what's happening than to just like check in for

493
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 2: an hour and be like, oh, okay, everything's fine and

494
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: we put out that little fire. So I find for

495
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 2: the first one, you know, a month two months is

496
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 2: a great time frame doing ten percent of the work.

497
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 2: So if you work forty hours, maybe do ten do

498
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: four hours, maybe ten hours a week and the first

499
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: week is kind of the hardest because you're like almost

500
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: having kind of I don't know, not withdrawals, but like

501
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 2: it feels so unfamiliar to be out of that routine.

502
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: You start to settle it, and then by the end

503
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 2: you're like, I don't need to look at any emails.

504
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 2: They're fine, they're fine, everything's fine. We're having fun. But yeah,

505
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 2: you'll find that five ten hours a week usually is

506
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: a good starting spot. And you know, with your business,

507
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 2: like as a business owner, you can you can make

508
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: that choice either way. Like you guys could have said,

509
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: you know what, we're going to like work a ton

510
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: more before we leave. We're gonna get all this work.

511
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: We're going to record all these episodes in advance, or

512
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: we're gonna bring on guest hosts, or we're gonna like

513
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 2: do all this extra work because if someone bails, like

514
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: that's not an outcome that we can live with, Like

515
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: it's too detrimental to our lives in our business. And

516
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 2: so you hustle a little bit more on the front

517
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 2: end and you do a little bit more without logistics,

518
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: or if you're like, ultimately, this is the lifestyle we

519
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: want to have, and so I'm going to build a

520
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: business that matches the life I want to have, even

521
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: if that business is slightly different than how it looks currently.

522
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: That's emotionally hard though, right, I mean that's the like,

523
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: there's there's a part of it's like yeah, this like that,

524
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: like I love it, Like I am all about that.

525
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: But like it's one thing to mentally know that and

526
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: to say and to write down on paper that yes, uh,

527
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: we are in a position to where we can step

528
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: away like this. We are in a position where we

529
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: can lose some listeners if you know, so be it.

530
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: It's another thing to actually follow through and to actually

531
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: do the thing. I feel like the emotional hurdle for

532
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: most folks is likely going to be the most difficult

533
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: part of it. What would you say, like, how else

534
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: would you coach someone through? I guess that emotional component

535
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: maybe some of that fear.

536
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: There's so much fear, and there's like one hundred different

537
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 2: flavors of fear. But to address like the business aspect

538
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: to mindsets and perspectives that can be helpful one. The

539
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 2: clients you lose, the listeners you lose are typically the

540
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: worst ones.

541
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: All the good ones are going to stick around.

542
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: No offense to anyone listening who's like all piece out like,

543
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: but the people who are so demanding and so unreasonable

544
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 2: and they ask so much of you, those are the

545
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 2: clients that are like, this doesn't work for me, And

546
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: you keep your best clients. You keep your best listeners,

547
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: the ones that are like, oh wait, you're a human

548
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: being and want to live a life, and I can

549
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 2: respect that and deal with the slight discomfort of not

550
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: having a brand new episode every week. And then on

551
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: the other side, there are so many logistics, like it's

552
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: such a pain to do all of the work to

553
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: organize your business and simplify things, automate things, delegate things,

554
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 2: document things, like all four of those steps are a

555
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 2: crap ten of work. But when people come back, let's

556
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: say let's say you were both working forty hours a

557
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: week now and you've managed to figure out how to

558
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: get that down to ten for these let's say eight weeks.

559
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: You come back and you might be like, oh, actually,

560
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 2: it doesn't take me forty hours anymore, Like I can,

561
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: we can do this in thirty And now you have

562
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: this extra ten hours to build that cool new thing

563
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: that you didn't You like the idea but you never

564
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: had time for or to expand this thing or to

565
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: take on another project, or you can say, actually, the

566
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: business is doing great, like let's just keep those ten

567
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: hours as like bonus lifestyle hours, and from now on,

568
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: I only work thirty hours a week. And I've seen

569
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: business owners go both ways, like I a mutual friend

570
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: of ours, I interviewed pet on my show because he's

571
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: stepped away from his conference for like two years and

572
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: did like a massive reset, and it's so much worked

573
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: to logistically step away from something you created. But then

574
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: when he came back, he bought like two more businesses,

575
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: Like he tripled what he was doing because he had

576
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: this bandwidth and now he had this team that was

577
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: like able to handle his one business. And he's like,

578
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: there's absolutely no way if I was just running the

579
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: one business, I ever would have bought two more businesses,

580
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: Like yeah, because I didn't have the time or the

581
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: space or the energy for it.

582
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. I was going to ask you about,

583
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: like there was new data out not too long ago

584
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: about how the average American is working fewer hours than

585
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: they haven't a long time. Work hours, especially for younger

586
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: workers on a weekly basis, have decreased by by a

587
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: not insignificant amount. So but it sounds like what you're saying.

588
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: I was going to say, well, what do you think

589
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: is it better to pull the mini retirement ripcord or

590
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: to kind of prioritize your a general average work week

591
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: to just be less work centric and have more free time.

592
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: But it sounds like you're saying the mini retirement is

593
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: almost like the propellant to give you better work weeks

594
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: and hopefully just more balanced work weeks in the future.

595
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say both, Like a mini retirement is

596
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: a great like hard reset, and it can get you

597
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: up to that baseline. If someone will say I want

598
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: to struggle with exhaustion and fatigue in my job for

599
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: thirty hours a week, or should I take six weeks

600
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: off and like actually come back one hundred percent? I

601
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: think most people are happier when they can show up

602
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: to work excited, energized, creative, like motivated. When they can

603
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: bring that energy, they enjoy what they're doing more. Whether

604
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: you're doing it thirty hours a week or forty hours

605
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 2: a week, those hours are just better. I remember being

606
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: a kid and thinking, gosh, people on their forties are boring,

607
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: Like they just they don't seem excited about anything. They

608
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: don't seem interested, they're not doing any cool things. And

609
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 2: then I got to my forties and I was like,

610
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: oh no, they're just tired, and they're not boring. They're

611
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: just tired. It's so easy, especially in midlife, to just

612
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: feel overwhelmed by all of the different responsibilities. But I

613
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 2: have found when people take many retirements, it's like rolling

614
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: back the clock, depending how long they're gone. They took

615
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: six months off, a year, two years off, all of

616
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 2: a sudden. Instead of feeling I'm forty two, so we'll

617
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: say forty two, they feel thirty five, and then six

618
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: months later they're like, actually I feel thirty And then

619
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: six months later they're like, actually, this is what I

620
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: felt like at twenty five. Like this level of like

621
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: creating a vidiot excitement and enthusiasm might have for life.

622
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: Like I'm not I'm not boring. I was just tired.

623
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: YEA makes sense. I get that. I see the bags

624
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: under your eyes, Matt. I mean it just makes sense.

625
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: And I think what you were saying too, Jill, just

626
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: finding ways to maybe reduce some of those hours, like yes,

627
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: you can come back with charge, but even I think

628
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: for some folks it's it is that day in day

629
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: out margin that they are able to not even shoehorn

630
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: into their life anymore, but to proactively constructively craft and

631
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: to create room for these other aspects of life, right,

632
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: like these other facets, these other other parts of our

633
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: our life that maybe we think we need to work on,

634
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: or even know we need to work on. How would

635
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: you how would you recommend for someone to do that?

636
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: Like if someone is thinking, well, I'm not even sure

637
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: what aspects of my life I should be focusing on, Joel.

638
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: Like earlier you mentioned something about like a spiritual journey.

639
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: There's this framework the spire. It's like spiritual, Uh, what

640
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: is relational? Intellectual, physical, physical? That's the pe part. Yeah,

641
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: emotional emotional health as well. Do you have any sort

642
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: of rules of thumb or any sort of methodology that

643
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: you would recommend for folks to examine their life, because

644
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: I think there might be a lot of folks and

645
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: there might be some of these arenas in their life

646
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: that they need a walk down that they aren't even

647
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: aware of the fact that this is an area of

648
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: their life that hasn't you know. It's like a piece

649
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: of this passwork of dirt that hasn't had a rake

650
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: touch it in years or decades, and it's there's you know,

651
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: there's some weed, and there's some plow and there's some

652
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: shoveling that needs to happen in that part of their life.

653
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: How would you recommend for folks to think through that?

654
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, so ideally, yes, try to figure this

655
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 2: out before you start. But I also understand some people

656
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: have no mental and emotional bandwidth. Their job is taking

657
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 2: all of it, and so they walk out of that

658
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: like burned to a crisp. Like in my group coaching,

659
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: I say, you know, if you're planning a mini retirement

660
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: in the next year or if you're in one, ideally, yeah,

661
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: you start figuring this stuff out before you start. But

662
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people can't. Like they can't

663
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: even they can't watch a five minute video like there

664
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: are no new thoughts happening in their head because they're

665
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: so burned out and so overwhelmed. So if you're in

666
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: the mini retirement and you need to figure it out,

667
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 2: I the step four of my book is like how

668
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 2: to navigate the journey and some unexpected things that will

669
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: pop up, and so for better or worse, I'm this

670
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: concept called like the messy kitchen, and that when you know,

671
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: at night, let's say you're really tired and you don't

672
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: clean up your kitchen after dinner, and then in the morning,

673
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: like you're really busy and trying to get a house

674
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 2: for work and for kids, and and so you leave

675
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: your messy kitchen, but you go to work all day.

676
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: I don't work. You don't see the messy kitchen, and

677
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: work you don't have to deal with the messy kitchen.

678
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: Like the breakroom looks great and you can kind of

679
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: avoid it because it's not ever present in front of you.

680
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: And there are a whole bunch of people that have

681
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: been trying to outrun an avalanche and they've just worked harder,

682
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: and they've worked faster, and they've worked longer, so they

683
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: don't have to deal with these parts of their life

684
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: that are complicated and hard and messy. And sometimes people

685
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: feel like they go on a mini retirement and the

686
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: mini retirement creates problems. Actually, the mini retirement's really good

687
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: at revealing the problems that were always there that work

688
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: was effectively covering up for you. And so that can

689
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: be a bummer. You're like, oh, actually, I don't have

690
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: many friends, or I'm not in that great as shape, uh,

691
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: or my kids don't actually enjoy hanging out with me

692
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: very much. And that's a super bummer to realize. But

693
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: the mini retirements also the solution, because now you have

694
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: the time and the energy and the band with to

695
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: fix some of these things. You know, if you've been

696
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 2: running from bad habits or mental health issues, or childhood

697
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: trauma or all a host a variety of things. In

698
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 2: the mini retirement, you'll you just give usit in I

699
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 2: miss the kitchen, and you'll you'll figure it out real quick.

700
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: You should be working on.

701
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like I like, what I hear you

702
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: saying is like, wherever there's going to be some discomfort,

703
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: which there is inevitably gonna be, to almost not ignore that,

704
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: because that's typically what we do, right, Like we just ignore,

705
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: we preoccupy ourselves. Oh, nine o'clock, gotta check into the office,

706
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: gotta show up in the chat, whatever it is. But

707
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: what I hear you saying is to lean into that,

708
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: to lean into that discomfort, to like look at square

709
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: in the face the thing that is making us squirm

710
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: a little bit. With this additional time, and maybe that

711
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: in and of itself is the thing that somehow we

712
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: need to get to the bottom.

713
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: Of absolutely because you will not outrun the avalanche forever.

714
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: Like well, you can either pause and deal with it

715
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: or it will bury you unexpectedly at the least convenient

716
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 2: moment of your life. So like you can't outrun these consequences.

717
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 2: And it's one of the reasons that like traditional retirement

718
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: can be a rough transition because they've been trying to

719
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: outrun it for a long time and now they're staring

720
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: down the barrel of thirty more years. And it's not

721
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: just the kitchen that's messy. There's a lot of areas

722
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: of their life that are messy. And that's it's hard

723
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: enough to change one thing about our lives. Like so

724
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 2: in my kind of dark humor, I think doing multiple

725
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 2: many retirements is like a great opportunity to like spread

726
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: out the disappointment and the pain. Don't deal with it

727
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: all at the end, just space it out. Deal with

728
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: a little bit of disappointment, a little bit of discomfort,

729
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 2: you know, every couple of years, and keep up on it.

730
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, just only focus on how you're a disappointment to

731
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: your family during this many retirement and you can say

732
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: the physical fitness part next year.

733
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 2: If you've been reading my journal.

734
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: Just trying to appreciate Jillian's darkum, that's that, Jillian. It's

735
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. Man hitted at the kind of

736
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: privilege of being able to take of many retirement and

737
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: you kind of said, well, actually it's more accessible than

738
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: most people like to think. But when you're telling your

739
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: friend about or your your coworker or your parents or

740
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: something like that, who busted their butt for forty years

741
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 1: to get the gold Watch kind of thing, and you're like, hey,

742
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take the same called of mini retirement. I'm

743
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: gonna take like three months off of work, and they're like,

744
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: must be nice. Like, I'm sure that's a common refrain

745
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: that you get from from people around you who can't

746
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: fathom how it's possible and think you must be like

747
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: independently wealthy or something like that. Who should we tell

748
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: and how should we be telling them about this break

749
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: to avoid the super awkward conversations, Oh my gosh, just

750
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: and go.

751
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: Off the rails so quick. Yeah, Actually, last night in

752
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: the group coaching, we were talking about this exapt topic,

753
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 2: how do we structure these conversations with coworkers, friends, and family.

754
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: Those are three very distinct groups. And first, like, so

755
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: there's two rules of memoir. If you're writing a memoir,

756
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: it all has to be true. And the second rule

757
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 2: is it cannot be the whole truth. If you try

758
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: to include every detail, you will lose the plot. So

759
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: curate what percentage of the truth you're going to tell.

760
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: And keep it super simple, like, don't focus on the

761
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 2: question marks. Keep it to the very tangible things that

762
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 2: you do know, you know, for example, like, yeah, I

763
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 2: need to I need to take this time off. It's

764
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: been really burned out, you know, the last five years

765
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: have been super busy. I'm really going to focus on

766
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: my kind of meditation and yoga practice. Planning to do

767
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: like a yogurt in Thailand for three weeks to kind

768
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: of cap it all off, looking forward to coming back

769
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 2: really refreshed. Keep it real simple, and don't invite other

770
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 2: people's emotional baggage, because they have their own biases, they

771
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 2: have their own values, they have their own complicated relationship

772
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 2: with work and money. Like there's probably no two things

773
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: that trigger people more than work and money, and they

774
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: will want to project all of that on you, and

775
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 2: so having some emotional boundaries of like and sometimes if

776
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: I'm feeling really honry, like every once in all, I'm sassy.

777
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: If I'm feeling really sassy and people aren't getting this

778
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: emotional boundary, I'll I'll literally like turn the script on

779
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 2: them if they say things like I don't know how

780
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 2: you do that, Like aren't you going to be so

781
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: worried about your career? Like I think this isn't this

782
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: financially like too big of a risk? I would say,

783
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 2: I can see how you would be worried about your

784
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: career if you took a mini retirement, and maybe it

785
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,479
Speaker 2: would be a big financial risk for you. Like that's

786
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: their stuff that they're trying to put on you, and

787
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: it's not yours to pick up, Like you don't have

788
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: to pick that up. So having those boundaries and another

789
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: pro tip if you are in like a work obsessed culture,

790
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 2: there is something about a work obsessed culture that there's

791
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: this idea of like if you've earned the reward, like

792
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: then it's justified. And so sometimes if you put in

793
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: just like a sentence or two of like, you know,

794
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 2: we've been planning this for a long time. It took

795
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: a lot of savings and kind of logistics to figure

796
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: it out. But now we're able to take this year

797
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 2: off and do this road trip with our kids, and

798
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: we're really excited about it. And people are like, oh, wait,

799
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 2: you did the work and you earned this reward. Okay,

800
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: that's acceptable, Versus if you were like, yeah, I don't know,

801
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: I've just kind of just winging, like I'm still burned out.

802
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 2: I just left, like we're gonna go take a year off.

803
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,439
Speaker 2: Then they're like, no, no, no, you haven't earned it yet,

804
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 2: So you can kind of play on that.

805
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, cultural narrative there, One of those seems easier

806
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: than the other, right, Like, obviously it's gonna be easier

807
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: to play the game to agree with the assumptions that

808
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: they are operating their life by. Does that feel like

809
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: a cop out to you, because in one sense, what's

810
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: the harder thing to do here is to be truthful.

811
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: Like the easy thing to do is to say, yeah,

812
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: we've been working on this, we're gonna do it. X

813
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: equals why or you know, xplus whatever, X plus y

814
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: equals z the road trip. Like that's the easy thing.

815
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: But the harder thing seems to me to be like

816
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: to be less agreeable and to say, yeah, we're not

817
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: totally sure so, but we're just gonna do this thing.

818
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: I like that though, because that feeds into this sort

819
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: of countercultural narrative that hey, life isn't linear, or just

820
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: because you've worked hard, that doesn't necessarily mean that you

821
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 1: can then achieve whatever the thing is. And you're even

822
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: saying too, you know, I mean, Joel, the fact that

823
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: you were even you mentioned like the pre career many

824
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: retirement India or are you Jillian talking about how like

825
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: you've taken tons of these right and so, and we're

826
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: trying to fight back against the Oh, yes, you're gonna

827
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: work forty fifty years and then you can retire. That's

828
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: the linear sort of model. It's almost more work the

829
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: Warre and buffet model where you step down at age

830
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: ninety four. Yeah, it's almost it's almost more work, to

831
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: be honest. But I feel like that that has I

832
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: don't know, almost like a higher ability to impact people

833
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: for the better.

834
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 2: I would say, whatever you have emotional bandwidth to do,

835
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 2: Like if you want to go out and chase the

836
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: world and like fight with a bunch of people and

837
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: like have a bunch of people argue with you than

838
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 2: like have at it. But like I said, many retirements

839
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: are a pain in the butt, and if you just

840
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 2: don't have that emotional energy to engage in like fruitless

841
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: arguments with people, and like other people unpack all their

842
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: baggage on you. If you're like, I've got enough on

843
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: my plate, then you know, come up with a real

844
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: simple answer and leave it at that. But there are

845
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: certain people that will ask more honest questions. They will

846
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 2: be more curious. They're not just pushing their baggage on you.

847
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: They legitimately want to know. And then that can be

848
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 2: a fun conversation of like just buy my book and

849
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: slip it like in their desk and be like, read

850
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: this and we'll talk about it in like a month,

851
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: like start a secret book club with like all of

852
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: your coworkers. Like that can be fun. But sometimes I

853
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: find people aren't asking what I call like an honest question.

854
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: They're just projecting their fear, like don't you think this

855
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: is a bad idea? That's not an honest question. An

856
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: honest question is like, oh, you're thinking about a curer pivot.

857
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 2: That's cool, Like what might you want to do next?

858
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: I'll answer any honest question but I don't have a

859
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 2: ton of bandwidth to like carry other people's stuff. It's

860
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 2: like my stuffs heavy enough.

861
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: It's like trying to get into YouTube comments and ride

862
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: every wrong. It's like probably not worth your time or Twitter. Okay,

863
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: So Jillian, we Matt and I we're going to be

864
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: We got one more episode coming out and then we're

865
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: going to be out until the beginning of August. So

866
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: do you have any questions for us or any last

867
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: words of wisdom for us before we embark on? I

868
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: guess technically it's my second mini retirement's math's first. I

869
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: just thought of that as like a youthful excursion, but

870
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: looking back, I'm like, oh no, it really was one

871
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: of those things. It really was that for me. So yeah,

872
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: do you have any any thoughts for us as we

873
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: in this conversation?

874
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 2: Yes. So one of the tools step four is do

875
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: a weekly check in, because this thing will get away

876
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: from you and it will go off the rails, like

877
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 2: it just will no matter how well you have it planned.

878
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: You know, in group coaching, I always encourage real like

879
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: we're we spend like sixteen weeks doing this. This is

880
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 2: not like a quick process. So in theory, you would

881
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 2: have like this air type plan. No, no, no, we don't.

882
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: We have a sixty percent plan and forty percent we

883
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: have to acknowledge is make believe. It's just assumptions. It's

884
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: how we think it's going to go. But as you

885
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 2: get into the mini retirement, think about each week is

886
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: like I'm running an experiment. I'm testing a hypothesis, and

887
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: at the end of the week, I'm going to see

888
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 2: how did that work out? Like did that go how

889
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 2: I thought it did? Take that new information, sowop out

890
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 2: actual information for some of the make belief stuff you

891
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 2: had in that plan, and test it again the next week,

892
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: because the time will get away from you, like some

893
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 2: things will just go off the rails, you know what,

894
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 2: what are the people? Last night was like like I

895
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 2: thought this was gonna be like super relaxing, and like

896
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: things are chaotic and the house is busy and like

897
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: the kids and like it's not it's not quite what I imagine.

898
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, yeah, cool, And now we regroup and

899
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: like we test some new things and we try some

900
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: new things. And so I think if more people had

901
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: those check ins, check in with your spouse, check in

902
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 2: with your kids, like check in with people in your

903
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: life that could be very helpful. And the second thing

904
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 2: is like acknowledged that forty percent is make believe and

905
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: be willing to pivot accordingly. You know, I remember one

906
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: of my crushing clients last year knew she was a

907
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: little burned out, but like planned this massive epic trip.

908
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: And I always say that's cool, Like plan cool trips.

909
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 2: But make sure you're willing to pivot, Like make sure

910
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: you're willing to be flexible, because there can be an

911
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 2: emotional suffering that we add onto ourselves by being disappointed

912
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: things aren't going as planned and you might find a

913
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: week in, two weeks in, I'm exhausted, I'm so burned out,

914
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 2: like I'm dreading the schedule that we've created for ourselves.

915
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: Don't push through that. Do your weekly check in and say, actually,

916
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: this sucks. We need to do something different and rebook

917
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: some reservations, slow it down, do less activities, like make

918
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: those pivots, and be emotionally okay with making those pivots

919
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: that you're not failing at it, you're just learning as

920
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 2: you go.

921
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, that's so good. Yeah to bring I don't

922
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: want to bring it back to personal finance, but like

923
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: that's some cost fallacy, right, like when we are so

924
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: emotional emotionally committed to something that we follow through with

925
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: it anyway, even to the overall detriments of the overall

926
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: portfolio expense or in this case person. But Jillian Man,

927
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: we really, as always truly appreciate you taking the time

928
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: to chat with us on a personal level, but just

929
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: for you to share your wisdom with our listeners as well.

930
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: We'll make sure to link specifically to your book Retire

931
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: often when it comes out, we'll make sure to feature

932
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: it as well once it actually does publish, probably in

933
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: the newsletter or something like that. But yeah, thank you

934
00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: so much for talking with us today.

935
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 2: Awesome. I am so excited for your many retirement. I

936
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 2: hope it's awesome. And if it goes off the rails,

937
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 2: just give me a call.

938
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: We will thank you so much for that offer. Yep,

939
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 1: all right, Matt. This is a different episode, very different,

940
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: not a Friday flight. I'm sure there's like some tariff

941
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: montrusting going on that we're not talking about, so like

942
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: talk about this talk bro, not today. So okay, man,

943
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: this is a kind of a self gratifying episode in

944
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: one way, but hopefully it's also helpful for everyone else

945
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: out there listening. So I think that's why we felt

946
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: the freedom to do something like this as well, because

947
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: this wasn't just a personal quest. But yeah, I think

948
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: there are some takeaways that folks were able to glean

949
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: from our conversation. And we actually, just before I hit

950
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: record again, debated whether or not we would even do

951
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: the big takeaway because we were like, oh, let's just

952
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: talk with Jillian and see what happens. I was like,

953
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: we have mentioned we still had a beer on the episode.

954
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 1: Did you want to share like just like a brief

955
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: big takeaway? Briefly, I thought when she said the term

956
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: active rest, And I love the way that sounds, because

957
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: I don't want this time away to be like you

958
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 1: don't want to fall into a Netflix no binge watching,

959
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 1: not at all, and I watch so little TV. I

960
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: just don't And there's definitely some shows I'm like, I'd

961
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 1: love to catch up on that still want to watch

962
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: The Brutalist haven't watched that somehow yet. Maybe I'll dedicate

963
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta save that for the many retirement,

964
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: because that's when you'll finally have the time. I will

965
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: dedicate four hours to watch a four our film, but

966
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: maybe to nothing else. But I like the idea of

967
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: active rest where you're engaging in the activities that are

968
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: going to give you life and and you're not just

969
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: zoning out because a man, I don't know about you,

970
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: but especially like when my kids, if they've zoned out

971
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: in front of the TV, their attitudes are terrible, and

972
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: I think the same is true for me, Like if

973
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: I spend too much time in front of the TV,

974
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: like my attitude goes down the drain. And so I

975
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: want to I want to partake in rest, but I

976
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,720
Speaker 1: want to do it hopefully in a healthy, productive way. Totally,

977
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: my big takeaway is gonna be the phrase that she

978
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 1: said that there are seasons with expiration dates and shouldn't

979
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: be surprising. I feel like both of our big takeaways

980
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: are indicative of like where our head and where our

981
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 1: hearts are at and maybe what you know with what

982
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: we're hoping to do with the time, but and specifically

983
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: and how that pertains to having kids at home if

984
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: that's you, if you've got a family, but even if

985
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: you don't, there are different seasons, right, Like we all

986
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: have parents, and so what does that look like the

987
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: example she gave with Doug and his parents with that

988
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: road trip that they took up to Alaska. When it

989
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: comes to different expiration dates that we have on our

990
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: own health and the ability to do certain things, I

991
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: think it's worth taking stock. And that's one of the

992
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 1: things you're able to do hopefully ahead of time. That

993
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: way you can make the most of the time off.

994
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: But sometimes you just got to get there first. Yeah,

995
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, And that was Gosh. You can't outrun

996
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: the avalanche. And sometimes you don't know what it is

997
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: that you're going to face during the many retirement, and

998
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: it's a great time to turn and face the avalanche

999
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: and in a like a proact of kind of oh,

1000
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: this is going to overtake me. But I've got the

1001
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: bandwidth to deal with this at this point in my life.

1002
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 1: All right, let's mention the beer we had. Yes, this one?

1003
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: Was it called Bone Church? Bone Church? The fine folks

1004
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 1: over at Creature Comforts. This is the check a check

1005
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: style Amber Lagger. What'd you think, dude? Gorgeous? By the way,

1006
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: it was called Bone Church. I had to look this

1007
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: up because apparently there is a church just outside of

1008
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: Prague that has bones from tens of thousands of people

1009
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: decorating the entire church, from the chandeliers, coats of arms,

1010
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 1: and the black death yes right, yeah, and it looks awesome,

1011
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: Like I totally want to go check those out. There's

1012
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: some hooks to listen to who are like, yeah, bro,

1013
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: I checked that out during my sabbatical. Took exactly what

1014
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: I was a prog on this one, but maybe on

1015
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: the next time. This beer, though gorgeous, amber colored, delightful

1016
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 1: caramel vibes, nice and clean at the same time, though

1017
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: really nice. I had a lot of like little idiosyncratic

1018
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: flavors coming through, shining through. It was not plain, even

1019
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: though this style sometimes can be. One note, this one

1020
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 1: was not. I just I really enjoyed it. It was tasty.

1021
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: Glad that you and I got to share this one.

1022
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, we hope everyone ooh has a fantastic weekend.

1023
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: That's not normally something we say at the end of

1024
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: a conversation or interview with your friend. But we'll see

1025
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: back here next week for on Monday, because we've got

1026
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: our one thousandth episode On Monday, the ask me anything,

1027
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about everything. We're gonna talk a

1028
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: little bit about money, but a lot about hopefully. Man, gosh,

1029
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: are we doing two self indulgent episodes in a row?

1030
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 2: Now?

1031
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: No, these are their questions that they have for us.

1032
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. So catch out on Monday. Look

1033
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 1: forward to that. But until then, until next time, best friends,

1034
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: our best friends out. May we really appreciate you taking

1035
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: the time to like wade through some of this in

1036
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: a very meataw way for us personally, but then also

1037
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 1: for the show.

1038
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: Awesome. And I think I think by the end you're

1039
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 2: gonna be like, yeah, this is the pass forward, Like

1040
00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 2: we're a hundred person doing this again.

1041
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: Like Matt's always been pushing us more in this direction.

1042
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm I'm kind of the My dad was kind of

1043
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: the dude who worked sixty hours a week, and uh

1044
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: so it's just what I saw modeled and I was like,

1045
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: that must be the way. Uh, and so Matt's always

1046
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: kind of pushed us towards us and so we even

1047
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,959
Speaker 1: now we work four days a week and we work

1048
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: pretty like I don't know, pretty flex hours or pretty

1049
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: flex hours stuff like that. So uh, from that standpoint,

1050
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: but this was like another step in that direction of

1051
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: that that feels like a leap of faith. Yeah, that

1052
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: is I like buck against emotionally and viscerally. And then

1053
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: like the more I think about it and lean into

1054
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 1: what it could be, I'm like, Okay, no, that could

1055
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: be good, Like I need this, Like this could be Yeah.

1056
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: I think just work is such a central element, such

1057
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: a central focus of our culture and our lives, and

1058
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: like you know my story growing up that it's it

1059
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: feels like the right thing to do, and then you've

1060
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: got to find your way and carve your own way

1061
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: and say, no, that's not what it's going to be

1062
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: for me.

1063
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: And I do think especially I mean it's true for

1064
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: nine to five employees, but especially for self employed, Like

1065
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:19,479
Speaker 2: it seems to unlock something, like people come back because

1066
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 2: there's I talk around the book, like the difference in

1067
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 2: like high performance athletes. If you're ten percent faster than

1068
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: everyone else, you win one hundred percent of the races,

1069
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 2: Like it's really disproportionate. You don't win ten percent more races,

1070
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 2: like you win all of them. And it's just like

1071
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 2: those little things are so high leverage. If you come

1072
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: back twenty percent better, twenty percent more creative, twenty percent

1073
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 2: more motivated, Like it can make one hundred percent of

1074
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 2: the difference, and so there's.

1075
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: Twenty percent more clarity even, yeah, the correct thing.

1076
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes it's just stepping out of the dynamic.

1077
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 2: It's like I don't know, like if you're like fighting

1078
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 2: with your spouse and you're in the thick of it,

1079
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 2: like sometimes just like stepping out and going for a

1080
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: walk and like getting out of it for a second.

1081
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: Then you come back and you're like, oh, wait, we

1082
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: can actually talk about this.

1083
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: Now, like only if you slam the door on your

1084
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: way out.

1085
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 2: Though, yes, one hundred percent loud noises unnecessary for dramatic.

1086
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 1: Accent to break something.

1087
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think like such cool things happen, And

1088
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 2: I'm seeing, especially amongst entrepreneurs, a big trend where like

1089
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 2: a lot of them take a month off every year,

1090
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: like it's just standard operating procedure now because then being

1091
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 2: high performance just makes such a big difference.

1092
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe it. I'm really sul curious to see

1093
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,959
Speaker 1: how this impacts both of us on an individual level,

1094
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: on a family level, and then also on a business

1095
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: level when we come back. But also let's set expectations low.

1096
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: That way, we don't come you don't come back. Disappointed Man, nothing, ha, No,

1097
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: I think more of all of those metrics, the thing

1098
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm most excited about is the interpersonal thing, like like literally,

1099
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: how am I going to change? Yeah? The business, sure,

1100
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: which is tough to quantify that. Yeah, you like that,

1101
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: Like that's what so I guess that's why I jokingly

1102
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: said like, oh man, nothing happened. But it's like it's

1103
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: really tough to hard egauge. How do you put that

1104
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: in a spreadsheet? Like, you know, if you're speaking Matt language,

1105
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do I put that into numbers? I can't.

1106
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: But there's something that I know to be true that

1107
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: I know like at a bone deep sort of level. Yeah,

1108
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: and that's we just need to be more attuned to

1109
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: that kind of change as well.

1110
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of the nice things doing those weekly

1111
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 2: check ins in the book. I've got like some question

1112
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 2: like sample questions you can run through. But it can

1113
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 2: be really helpful for analytical people because you can measure

1114
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 2: some of those things that are harder to measure, like

1115
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: how am I sleeping? How well rested am I feeling?

1116
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 2: How much time do I have to like think new thoughts,

1117
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 2: like how much like mental clarity in my experience and

1118
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: kind of check in with yourself on these things, and

1119
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 2: then you'll see you can map out kind of that

1120
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 2: progression in something it feels more tangible, like how how's

1121
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 2: my communication with my spouse? Like how's my sex life

1122
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: with my spouse? Like is that getting better? Like just

1123
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: all these different things that you can kind of see. Actually,

1124
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 2: we're making like stuff is changing, and I think many

1125
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 2: retirements are mostly life changing because we're changed in the process,

1126
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: Like we come out different. Therefore our life becomes different

1127
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: because we're showing up in a new way.

1128
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so good. All right, the step four, I'm

1129
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: going to tear into the to the worksheet, make sure

1130
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: that I'm doing those weekly check ins. Jamia feeling you're

1131
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: the best.

1132
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: We really appreciate you, so good to see you, chat

1133
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 2: with you.

1134
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: And I want to go ahead and stop so that

1135
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: we get the full upload. Okay, oh yeah, yeah,