WEBVTT - Selects: Timber! How Timber Works

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, folks.

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck here on a Saturday morning for me, maybe Saturday afternoon.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe he's not Saturday at all in your world. Who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>But we release these curated selects on Saturday. And here's

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<v Speaker 2>my pick for this week from January twenty first, twenty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Timber How Timber Works. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,

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<v Speaker 2>a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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<v Speaker 1>Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there, post nasal drip

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<v Speaker 1>some sort, and that makes this stuff you should know.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes this room the infection zone.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, Jerry, are you sick?

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<v Speaker 2>No, she's not sick. Are you no?

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<v Speaker 1>Good, she's just snotty. That's fine as long as she's

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<v Speaker 1>not sick. Are you sick? No?

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<v Speaker 2>Man?

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<v Speaker 1>How are you feeling? Great? Good? Good?

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<v Speaker 2>Tired?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you well?

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<v Speaker 2>You're a dad?

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<v Speaker 1>All dads are tired, aren't they? No, it has nothing

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<v Speaker 1>to do with it. Oh yeah, no, why are you tired?

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<v Speaker 2>Just uh, didn't get enough sleep last night?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, but not because dad stuff. Okay, we'll leave it

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<v Speaker 1>at that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's set for building a wall.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's back away from that question, shall we instead, chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>take my hand, and let's wander off into the forest.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, this was pretty neat. I gotta say. I was

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<v Speaker 2>excited about this because A it's a dense.

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<v Speaker 1>Like a forest.

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<v Speaker 2>B it's cool like a forest, and C it provides

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<v Speaker 2>a great canopy over our heads.

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<v Speaker 1>It does a canopy of knowledge. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I reverse engineered that last one.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you did?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Man, he is on a roll.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna get a few. We're gonna get some stuff

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<v Speaker 2>wrong on this one.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that's correct.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like any can we tackle something that's in

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<v Speaker 2>any industry like this, The people in the industry are

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<v Speaker 2>going to have way better current information than we will.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think it's funny because I picked up on

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<v Speaker 1>the same thing, not just with the industry, but also

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<v Speaker 1>with the battle over Yeah, forestry rights.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a minefield, my friend.

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<v Speaker 1>It really is, because this article was written a number

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<v Speaker 1>of years back and is very friendly to the forestry industry. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not like extraordinarily conservation minded as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think I had to drop a bombshell.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think I had a slant. I saw

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<v Speaker 2>it as pretty neutral.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know man like.

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<v Speaker 2>But here's how confused I was. And we'll get to

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<v Speaker 2>this later. But these initiatives and certification programs, so we'll

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<v Speaker 2>get to later. I didn't know like which one I

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<v Speaker 2>should like and not like. At the end, I can

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<v Speaker 2>tell you, well, save it, okay, all right, because I

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<v Speaker 2>need somebody to tell me what the like and not like, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Can tell you just save it, all right, I'm saving it.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about forests in general, Chuck.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, let's talk about our country a little.

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<v Speaker 1>Bit, in the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, even more, let's talk about our continent.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, North America.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. When settlers came over here, there was a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of trees. There were a lot of trees.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you remember in our pigeon episode, like the idea

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<v Speaker 1>that there were so many what was it passenger pigeons

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<v Speaker 1>that died off that were just driven to extinction because

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<v Speaker 1>of humans. I'm pretty sure his passenger.

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<v Speaker 2>Remember I got confused in the episode about which.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a very confusing thing. And they think that

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<v Speaker 1>ultimately the pigeons had been managed by Native Americans who

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<v Speaker 1>were wiped out by disease, so that when the first

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<v Speaker 1>Europeans really came along, they saw tons of pigeons places

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<v Speaker 1>over Rham with pigeons because there was no one there

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<v Speaker 1>to hunt anymore. Right, Yeah, same thing with the forest.

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<v Speaker 1>They think there was so much forest cover that it

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<v Speaker 1>was because the Native Americans who had managed the forest

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<v Speaker 1>before had all died off or largely died off, and

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<v Speaker 1>then what we thought was just this crazy stretch of

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<v Speaker 1>forest that had always been there was actually fairly new.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's probably not the case.

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<v Speaker 2>Well at any rate. Way back in the sixteen hundreds,

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<v Speaker 2>about forty percent of land north of Mexico was trees.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not too bad. No, that's a lot of trees.

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<v Speaker 2>And trees are great because they give us wood. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean they led to you know, pre metal, it was

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<v Speaker 2>all about wood, Yeah, you know, ships, buildings, houses, wagons.

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<v Speaker 1>William Harris wh wrote this article. Yeah, he makes the

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<v Speaker 1>very smart point that we came and cut down trees

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<v Speaker 1>and basically built a new nation. Yeah, certainly a new economy,

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<v Speaker 1>subtle new nations out of wood, definitely, for sure, like

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<v Speaker 1>literally out of wood.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're talking the world and Planet Earth, about thirty

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<v Speaker 2>percent is forest land, and Russian and Brazil lead the

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<v Speaker 2>way because they have huge tracts of land.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but as a continent, actually Europe is the most.

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<v Speaker 1>They have the most forest of any kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>most dense. I believe that they have one thousand and

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<v Speaker 1>one million, which is a little over a billion hectares

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<v Speaker 1>hectares point four acres, right, sure, the total number of

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<v Speaker 1>acreage if you're in the US of forest land throughout

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<v Speaker 1>the world one point five eight billion acres of forests.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that the most broad definition of a forest that

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<v Speaker 2>includes everything.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's in the US. No, no, no, that's the

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<v Speaker 1>world one point five eight billions in the.

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<v Speaker 2>World, gotcha. Yeah, Because in the US, if you talk

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<v Speaker 2>to a forester, they will say, everyone thinks that you

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<v Speaker 2>see a bunch of trees and that's a forest. But

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<v Speaker 2>they would narrow down that definition to at least one

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<v Speaker 2>acre of land which has at least ten percent tree cover.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a pretty that's a good definition for a forest.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm on board with that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, if you're talking that definition, then the US has

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<v Speaker 2>about seven hundred and fifty million acres seven sixty six

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<v Speaker 2>In Canada, yep, and that's that's forest.

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<v Speaker 1>My friend. Boom, we're done. Yeah, it was a minefield,

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<v Speaker 1>but we navigated.

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<v Speaker 2>But this is about timber and that's different than forest.

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<v Speaker 1>It is different than forrest. So a forest is that

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<v Speaker 1>definition that you just said. It's an acre of land

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<v Speaker 1>with ten percent tree cover?

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<v Speaker 2>Right, yep.

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<v Speaker 1>Timberland is a type of forest land, but it has

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<v Speaker 1>to have a certain amount of usable trees on it

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<v Speaker 1>or timber, yeah, to make it timberland. Rightes.

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up in a forest actually, now that I

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<v Speaker 2>think about it, Oh yeah, by that definition.

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<v Speaker 1>Nice. What was it called.

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<v Speaker 2>It's called Chuckshause Chuck's House forest. Yeah, I mean it was.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we had We had like an acre and

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<v Speaker 2>a half and most of it was.

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<v Speaker 1>Trees, so more than ten percent. Oh yeah, easy. So

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<v Speaker 1>you had a dense forest. It was pretty dense. That's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you learn to climb trees out there?

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<v Speaker 2>No? But I used to get poked fun at because

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't grow up in a neighborhood like most kids.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just a street with like six houses in

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<v Speaker 2>the forest.

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<v Speaker 1>Who would make fun of you for that?

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<v Speaker 2>What were they saying, Well, you know, it's cool to

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<v Speaker 2>grow up in a neighborhood when in the eighties.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey man, I grew up in a neighborhood in the eighties.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't that great.

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<v Speaker 2>I was jealous, man, because everyone else would sneak out

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<v Speaker 2>at night then go to their friend's house and there

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<v Speaker 2>were swimming pools and tennis courts and in the centers,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was just like me and my brother in woods.

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<v Speaker 2>But I guess I got older and everyone was like, dude,

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<v Speaker 2>your house is awesome. You live out in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of the woods.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, plus you were lucky to have your brother

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<v Speaker 1>to hang out with. He's a great guy. True. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>good point. So you know I had a door that

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<v Speaker 1>led out to the back porch. Yeah, I was growing up.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, there's no sneaking out. It just opened the

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<v Speaker 1>door and went out for my room. There.

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<v Speaker 2>You're just like, go ahead, coming, go as you please.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I wasn't supposed to. But it wasn't a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of sneaking involved. It was opening the door and quietly

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<v Speaker 1>closing it.

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<v Speaker 2>You didn't have to always wanted to shimmy up a

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<v Speaker 2>drain pipe to my room.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you shimmying up or down downs a lot easier.

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<v Speaker 2>Than I could have shimmeyed when I was ten or twelve, though,

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<v Speaker 2>ain't no shimmy in anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>So people have sent in that guide Posts cover. Is

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<v Speaker 1>that you No, okay, it's just some other playing the trumpet.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I never played the trumpet. I never was blue

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<v Speaker 2>block or sunglasses.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't look like you, but I was like.

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<v Speaker 2>No, and it may not have been a four piece picture,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think it was.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone will find it, I hope. So okay, so let's

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<v Speaker 1>get back to timberland. Yes, timberland is a forest that's

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<v Speaker 1>capable of growing something like twenty cubic feet of commercial

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<v Speaker 1>wood per acre per year. That's right, that's it.

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<v Speaker 2>And people estimate two thirds of our nation is forest

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<v Speaker 2>land and five hundred and two million acres of that

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<v Speaker 2>is timberland.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not bad, not bad at all. No. So

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<v Speaker 1>the key here though is, and this is where the

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<v Speaker 1>big debate comes up. We're not going to get into

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<v Speaker 1>it necessarily now, but the key is that, yes, you

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<v Speaker 1>can have a forest that is capable of growing twenty

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<v Speaker 1>cubic feet of commercial grade lumber timber a year, but

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<v Speaker 1>you also wanted to be able to regrow sustainable harvesting, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So what you're after is what's called the net annual increase.

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<v Speaker 1>This article calls it a net annual gain. That's wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a net annual increase, which means that the amount

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff you're growing in a given year is more

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<v Speaker 1>than what you're harvesting. Difference between a gain and an increase.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying the industry term.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh gotcha.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I looked up net industry gain or yeah, net

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<v Speaker 1>annual gain.

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<v Speaker 2>And they said you must be a city folk.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, idiots, its increase. So the you just basically it's

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<v Speaker 1>pretty simple. You just want to take less trees than

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<v Speaker 1>you're growing in a particular year, or that you have

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<v Speaker 1>than you have in reserve.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And actually the United States has been in an annual

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<v Speaker 1>gain for decades now. Yeah, it's a real concern. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a cause for worry that we over over harvest trees.

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<v Speaker 1>Well we used to man that we DeForest, but if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at the historical data, yeah, we are growing

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<v Speaker 1>more trees than we're taking every year. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the stat was since the nineteen since nineteen twenty,

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<v Speaker 2>we haven't made anything worse, right, and apparently and since

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<v Speaker 2>the fifties we've gotten way better.

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<v Speaker 1>I think though four times seventies were like kind of bad,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think that was like the transition decade.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, what This made me really appreciate we're early conservationists.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because post Civil War and during pre Civil War

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<v Speaker 2>even people just sort of took what they wanted and

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<v Speaker 2>did what they wanted with the land. There wasn't a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of foresight, and so early conservationists were really fighting

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<v Speaker 2>an uphill battle back then.

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<v Speaker 1>I think.

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<v Speaker 2>So I just have a lot of respect for them.

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<v Speaker 2>I to say, you know what, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>this is smart, what's gonna happen in one hundred years.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, I know, you need your log cabin, Jebediah.

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<v Speaker 1>What's mind boggling to me is that the debate still

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<v Speaker 1>goes on. Yeah, that's true, you know, but not even

0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.520
<v Speaker 1>just with timber, with like climate in general, climate change

0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:27.160
<v Speaker 1>things like that.

0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.520
<v Speaker 2>Agreed. All right, So if you're a scientist, you're gonna

0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.160
<v Speaker 2>classify forests usually by what kind of trees are there.

0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.600
<v Speaker 2>For instance, a tropical rainforest you're gonna have broad leaf evergreens,

0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.000
<v Speaker 2>a boreal forest you're gonna have a needle leaf evergreens.

0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Then there's a temperate forest, which is like what we

0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:45.680
<v Speaker 1>have here in the southeast.

0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the US are five major regions, Pacific Coast

0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Rocky Mountain North South, and I love it. Alaska has

0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.559
<v Speaker 2>its own region, yes, just because it's it deserves.

0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.360
<v Speaker 1>It, and there's a lot of trees up there.

0:11:58.480 --> 0:11:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.440
<v Speaker 1>And in fact, there's been a little little bit of

0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.120
<v Speaker 1>a scandal recently as far as Alaska and trees go.

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Really yeah, big Is that a tease? It's a teas.

0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.920
<v Speaker 2>But we're gonna consider a couple of regions here, and

0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.280
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna mainly be talking about the United States because

0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:13.920
<v Speaker 2>that's where we live.

0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but there are trees everywhere.

0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you can apply this to a lot of places.

0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.200
<v Speaker 2>But east of the Old Mississippi is the hardwood region

0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:30.320
<v Speaker 2>and west is softwood. And if you're talking hardwood, gums, maples, oaks, walnut,

0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 2>very hardwood walnut.

0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Mahogany is mahogany in there? Actually, now I think about

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.760
<v Speaker 1>it, I think mahogany is a tropical rainforest tree.

0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Is it?

0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm an idiot, all right, No, you're not. That's what

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.000
<v Speaker 1>I get for coming up with something on my own.

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Soft woods. You're talking pine, spruce, hemlock, douglas fir, redwoods.

0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Those are soft woods. Sure, And we're just getting started.

0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.320
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of information coming your way.

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Should we take a break here?

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Should we?

0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. It sounded like you were working up

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:04.680
<v Speaker 1>toward that.

0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.679
<v Speaker 2>That was a break he set up, wasn't it. All right,

0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.600
<v Speaker 2>let's take a break. We'll come back and we'll talk

0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 2>about why wood is good. All right. Wood is good

0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:30.960
<v Speaker 2>because you can use it for lots of stuff, which

0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about.

0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.120
<v Speaker 1>And I didn't realize this that we've been using it

0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.760
<v Speaker 1>for a very long time, at least one and a

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:38.000
<v Speaker 1>half million years.

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, starting with fire and like clubs and yeah.

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 1>Did you realize that we'd harnessed fire that many years ago?

0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I ever really thought about it.

0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>It has a long time for people to be building

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.319
<v Speaker 1>fires a million and a half years ago. Yeah, that

0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.959
<v Speaker 1>completely reshaped my ideas of hominids from one point five

0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:58.800
<v Speaker 1>million years ago.

0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 2>What did you think about them before?

0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.079
<v Speaker 1>Not that they could create fire.

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:03.320
<v Speaker 2>They're a bunch of cold dopes.

0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 1>A little bit maybe that they just kind of may

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 1>do with what came their way rather than actually making fire.

0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:09.760
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we should do a podcast on the origins of fire.

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:16.640
<v Speaker 2>We did do one on fire, Yeah, but I don't

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 2>think we covered like the first fires did.

0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.080
<v Speaker 1>We or did we? Probably not? Yeah, I think I've

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.440
<v Speaker 1>since seen Quest for Fire, which we've talked about. Oh yeah,

0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.000
<v Speaker 1>good movie.

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I kind of want to talk about my favorite part,

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.480
<v Speaker 2>but this is a family podcast, so I won't.

0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It's pretty brutal in a lot of ways, isn't it. Yeah?

0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.840
<v Speaker 2>All right, So why is wood good? Like I said,

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:40.600
<v Speaker 2>you can make stuff out of it. Another big thing

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.920
<v Speaker 2>is carbon sequestration, which is why you hear a lot

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:49.640
<v Speaker 2>of people battling clearcutting for us because carbon sequestrations great.

0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 2>It traps carbon, so the build up of CO two

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:53.560
<v Speaker 2>is reduced.

0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. As a matter of fact, trees account for seventy

0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:00.640
<v Speaker 1>percent of the organic carbon locked in the earth.

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's why that canopy is important.

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 2>They also provide habitats for all our animals and birds

0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 2>and insects and all the plants and good things that

0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:19.120
<v Speaker 2>we love, and the hydrologic cycle. So a forest will

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 2>help soak up rainfall and filter the water as it

0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 2>becomes groundwater, all very important stuff.

0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you like drinking water, you can thank trees

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 1>for helping keep the soil in tip top shape to

0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>filter out all that nasty stuff. Yeah. So yes, forests

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 1>are extraordinarily important, right, what is good? But you also

0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.600
<v Speaker 1>can make pretty good use of it too, Like if

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.920
<v Speaker 1>you're a clever primate like we humans are, you cannot

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.440
<v Speaker 1>only use it for fire, which a lot of people

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.960
<v Speaker 1>still do around the world. Firewood is still a huge

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 1>use of wood of timber around the world.

0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Nothing beats a natural wood fire in a fireplace in

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:01.480
<v Speaker 2>your home.

0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.360
<v Speaker 1>No, it's true, you know. But do you remember when

0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 1>we were when we shot those Toyota, those Toyota videos

0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 1>that Carnegie mellon. Oh yeah, And one of the innovation

0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 1>things was like a filter, like an easy, cheap, portable

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.520
<v Speaker 1>filter for cooking fires. Yeah, indoor cooking fires. I remember

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.320
<v Speaker 1>that because that was a big problem people were like

0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:23.960
<v Speaker 1>making using wood fires to cook with, but they were

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.640
<v Speaker 1>doing it indoors and like suffering all sorts of lung problems.

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that still happens in you know, non industrialized nations. Yes,

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 2>is that what we call things?

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.120
<v Speaker 1>It's the it says, it's the prime it's the primary

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.280
<v Speaker 1>fuel for cooking and heating and developing countries, right, non

0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:41.920
<v Speaker 1>industrialized I think that's even better.

0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 2>All right. So here in the USO and in a

0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 2>lot of countries, these days, only seven percent of timber

0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.560
<v Speaker 2>is used for I guess heating and cooking.

0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's a big push against even that seven percent too. Really,

0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:00.920
<v Speaker 1>it's just such a I agree with you. I love

0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.720
<v Speaker 1>that Firefire's nice, but it's wasteful. Yes, okay, Well I

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:06.040
<v Speaker 1>don't have a working fireplace, so.

0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:07.560
<v Speaker 2>I just like them.

0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:08.880
<v Speaker 1>You just like the idea of it.

0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, I want one, but I have one of those old,

0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 2>you know houses from the nineteen thirties that it's expensive

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:16.560
<v Speaker 2>to get it retrofitted.

0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever gotten an estimate on it?

0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I need chimney work. I need a bigger firebox.

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.440
<v Speaker 2>They said something like eight or ten grand. The guy

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.960
<v Speaker 2>like tried to talk me out of it. Yeah, the dude,

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:28.880
<v Speaker 2>I was like, you don't want to make money. Yeah,

0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Like I want a fire and you're like, oh no,

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:34.400
<v Speaker 2>it's pretty expensive. I would like, all right, it's wasteful.

0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Uh So seven percent goes toward that lumber, which we'll

0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.359
<v Speaker 2>get to in a minute, is about fifty three percent

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:43.680
<v Speaker 2>in the US September.

0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and most of that goes to new house construction.

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 2>It turns out, oh really that makes sense. Pulp and

0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.400
<v Speaker 2>paper are thirty two percent and then composits like plywood

0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.000
<v Speaker 2>and veneer the other seven. Right, although I think we're

0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:58.639
<v Speaker 2>missing one percentage point, aren't we?

0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:00.439
<v Speaker 1>Or are we? Mmmm?

0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I wonder what that is. It's the mystery percent,

0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 1>the mystery percent. God knows what they're doing to that

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:10.400
<v Speaker 1>one percent of wood.

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.480
<v Speaker 2>All right, So I said the word lumber, and lumber

0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.480
<v Speaker 2>isn't just cut wood.

0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:22.199
<v Speaker 1>No, just like timberland isn't just forest. Yeah, no, forest

0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.160
<v Speaker 1>isn't just timberland. Right.

0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Lumber is actually a specific thing. It is wood that

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.520
<v Speaker 2>is squared or rectangular. So when you go to the

0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.840
<v Speaker 2>hardware store and you see all the two by fours

0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.119
<v Speaker 2>and two by six's and all that stuff, that is

0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:39.680
<v Speaker 2>lumber because it's a square.

0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.600
<v Speaker 1>If you point to a post, a round post and

0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.560
<v Speaker 1>go give me three of the lumbers.

0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.200
<v Speaker 2>We'll say, boy, where'd you come from?

0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're wrong in a couple of points here, So

0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 1>that's called roundwood. Actually, yeah, that doesn't that's not included

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:55.960
<v Speaker 1>in lumber.

0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.520
<v Speaker 2>That's a little nitpicky. If you're outside the industry, I think.

0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Say, I agree with you.

0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.119
<v Speaker 2>But if someone points that out and then I don't know,

0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:04.640
<v Speaker 2>punch them in the face with the two by four.

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, that's not that's not lumber. That's around what Remember

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.640
<v Speaker 1>hacksaw Jim Duggan. Didn't he attack people with the two

0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.399
<v Speaker 1>by four and the WWF.

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:15.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't watch a ton of wrestling.

0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure he had like a two by four.

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:20.720
<v Speaker 1>That makes sense. It's violent.

0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.439
<v Speaker 2>Construction. It's about a fifty to fifty split with lumber

0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.600
<v Speaker 2>in the US, about half goes to construction and about

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.119
<v Speaker 2>half goes to palettes, crates and furniture.

0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:34.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know what, I didn't know it would be

0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 1>that high. I read an extraordinarily interesting article on the

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.560
<v Speaker 1>pallette trade. Oh, I'm sure it's there's like a whole

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:46.359
<v Speaker 1>cartel controlling pallettes that people rebel against, and there's like

0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 1>pallette thieves and counterfeitters and yeah, it like just it's

0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.480
<v Speaker 1>a really interesting art. I'll see if I can find it.

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.520
<v Speaker 1>I'll post it in the podcast page for this.

0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, pallettes, you can. You can make a lot of

0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 2>cool things out of pallettes. And a lot of people

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.280
<v Speaker 2>are finding out their uses, so they think you can

0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:03.720
<v Speaker 2>just go behind the grocery store and take them.

0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:04.359
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>So now a lot of places have big signs that

0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.520
<v Speaker 2>are like do not take these palettes.

0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.720
<v Speaker 1>No, especially if they're blue, Like, that's stealing. If they're

0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.240
<v Speaker 1>blue palettes, yeah, you can get the place where you

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:16.280
<v Speaker 1>stole them from sued.

0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the saying. If the palette is blue, it's

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:20.200
<v Speaker 2>not for.

0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.000
<v Speaker 1>You because you'll get sued. That's right.

0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Furniture, If you make furniture, you're gonna like hardwood like

0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.320
<v Speaker 2>oak and maple, because it's durable and it has that

0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.520
<v Speaker 2>lovely grain in mahogany that we all love so much.

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.639
<v Speaker 1>Right, but softwood is no slouch either.

0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.200
<v Speaker 2>No, But palettes are used in hardwood too because it's sturdy, right,

0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:43.760
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, softwood's a different deal.

0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.479
<v Speaker 1>No. And they usually use softwood for construction lumber too, yea,

0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 1>because it contains fewer knots and things like that. And

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:57.040
<v Speaker 1>actually softwood is used chuck more for construction lumber because

0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.440
<v Speaker 1>you can make it long and straight, which is that's

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.960
<v Speaker 1>how you want your construction lumber, long and straight. Nobody

0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.080
<v Speaker 1>wants like kind of a topsy turvy house. Yeah, maybe

0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.400
<v Speaker 1>a crazy person, but most people don't. They want straight

0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:10.480
<v Speaker 1>plumb houses.

0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, although it's tough if you've ever done a home

0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:17.120
<v Speaker 2>reno project to find straight lumber these days, is that right? Yeah,

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.320
<v Speaker 2>you go in there and they all seem like they're

0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.160
<v Speaker 2>warped and bent. And if you're yeah, and if you're

0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.120
<v Speaker 2>a amateur like me, it doesn't help you out any

0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.560
<v Speaker 2>if your lumber's not straight. No, you want straight lumbers, Like,

0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how to make up for that. Like

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.560
<v Speaker 2>my buddy Isaac in Kansas help me do my house, right.

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:35.320
<v Speaker 2>He would go pick out stuff and I would say

0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.520
<v Speaker 2>this is curved. He'd be like, I can account for that, huh,

0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:39.439
<v Speaker 2>But I can't.

0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.000
<v Speaker 1>He's got like a special organ in his brain.

0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:48.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's called smarts, construction carpentry smarts.

0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that's lumber, right. Yeah. You can also make

0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:55.040
<v Speaker 1>paper out of wood. Yeah, this might be the fact

0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 1>of the podcast. Are you ready for this? Yeah, paper

0:21:58.160 --> 0:21:59.119
<v Speaker 1>is made out of wood.

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh? I thought you had something else? No, you got me.

0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:05.119
<v Speaker 1>Have we done one on paper before? Because this seemed

0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:06.080
<v Speaker 1>awfully familiar?

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.160
<v Speaker 2>No, But I will say this touched off like five

0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:10.760
<v Speaker 2>different topics that we should cover.

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, paper being one of them, all right, the originifier paper?

0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:21.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what else? Deforestation okay, in earnest, Yeah, we're gonna

0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:22.800
<v Speaker 2>touch on it. But and then there's a couple more,

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:30.560
<v Speaker 2>I think. Okay, pornography just kidding. So let's talk about

0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:35.160
<v Speaker 2>the cellular structure of wood because it's very important.

0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, especially when you're talking about paper. Yeah, like that

0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.920
<v Speaker 1>was not just a non sequitter, it actually makes sense exactly.

0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 1>So trees, yeah, like everything else, are made of cells, correct,

0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.040
<v Speaker 1>That's right. And when you take enough of these cells

0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:51.600
<v Speaker 1>and stack them together, you can create something as strong

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.480
<v Speaker 1>and tall and rigid as a tree. Yeah, but it

0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.760
<v Speaker 1>takes a certain kind of cell to make a tree.

0:22:57.280 --> 0:22:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, the cells. If you think of the walls

0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 2>of the cell, they make the tree strong. And there

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.240
<v Speaker 2>are a couple of chemicals that make up these walls,

0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:11.199
<v Speaker 2>cellulose and lignan. And cellulose is flexible and bindy, and

0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 2>lignan says no, no, I'm your glue. Cellulose. I'm going

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.679
<v Speaker 2>to keep you more rigid because I don't want you

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.960
<v Speaker 2>to bend. So they work together, yeah, to make Whether

0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.000
<v Speaker 2>cellulos likes it or not, Yeah, I always wondered about that.

0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:26.440
<v Speaker 1>It has to go along with it.

0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:28.280
<v Speaker 2>It's like I wanted to bend. Ligdan get out of

0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:28.920
<v Speaker 2>my face, right.

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Ligan is like no, no coloring outside the lines.

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:35.960
<v Speaker 2>So if you separate those things, which we've been doing

0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.360
<v Speaker 2>for a long time now, you can get those cellulos

0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:42.359
<v Speaker 2>fibers and actually make something called pulp which will eventually

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:43.240
<v Speaker 2>make paper.

0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, and you can form it into a mat press

0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:48.600
<v Speaker 1>and dry it and bleach it and turn it into paper.

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Like you said, you can also make other stuff too,

0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 1>technically fiber board, you know, the stuff that they use

0:23:54.800 --> 0:24:00.000
<v Speaker 1>to put on the backs of dressers and things these days. Crud, Yeah,

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 1>that's actually made from paper pulp.

0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Da.

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:08.240
<v Speaker 2>If you're at another hardware store and some guy that

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.240
<v Speaker 2>works there, lady says, what you want to use is MDF.

0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:16.239
<v Speaker 2>What's the medium density fiberboard? Okay, And that way they

0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.280
<v Speaker 2>won't think you're city folk. All you can say, yeah, MDF,

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:23.240
<v Speaker 2>sure totally, and then they'll know your city folk.

0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:26.679
<v Speaker 1>I'll be like, give me three of those mds. Uh.

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.360
<v Speaker 2>And then you have hardboard, and that's even stronger than fiberboard.

0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:34.160
<v Speaker 2>And it's just I think it's harder because it's pressed

0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:37.560
<v Speaker 2>together with so much pressure. It's more dense.

0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:42.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Fiberboard is pulp and glue pressed the pressed together

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:46.240
<v Speaker 1>hardboard is the same thing, but pressed together, like you said,

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:50.240
<v Speaker 1>under pressure and then completely different. Actually, although it does

0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:53.439
<v Speaker 1>seem like it would bear a pretty striking resemblance. Is

0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:54.919
<v Speaker 1>particle board.

0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:58.679
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yes, these are composites. Plywood and particle board are

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:03.400
<v Speaker 2>both composites, right, but they are different. The difference between

0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 2>MDF and particle board is MDF is well, particle board

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 2>is cheaper and it's made out of sawdust, whereas the

0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:15.680
<v Speaker 2>MDF is made of an actual fiber.

0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Right out of pulp. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah,

0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:22.120
<v Speaker 1>Like Chuck, you realize that stuff you should know has

0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:25.960
<v Speaker 1>hit such a stride, but we're talking about particle board.

0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:28.439
<v Speaker 1>It just hit me.

0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:31.879
<v Speaker 2>Plywood is when you take If you look at plywood

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:34.960
<v Speaker 2>and on the side of it, you'll see that it's

0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 2>a lot of little veneers pressed together.

0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what they're called. Yeah, veneers veneers. Plywood's great,

0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:44.040
<v Speaker 1>but if you really want something that's just as tough,

0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:47.840
<v Speaker 1>just as durable, but cheaper, you're going to go for

0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:52.359
<v Speaker 1>the oriented strand board OSB baby, which is basically like

0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:54.119
<v Speaker 1>plywood made out of particle board.

0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's all but replaced plywood in construction these days,

0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 2>home construction because it's cheaper, it is stronger and more durable,

0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:08.080
<v Speaker 2>and I was wondering why it was stronger, and it's

0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:10.960
<v Speaker 2>because it comes from it's right there in the name.

0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:16.200
<v Speaker 2>It's oriented. The specific orientation of the wood strands makes

0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:17.320
<v Speaker 2>it stronger.

0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:18.639
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, so.

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:22.840
<v Speaker 2>It's not just haphazardly tossed together and pressed. I guess

0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 2>by God, specifically oriented invented nineteen sixty three.

0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:30.400
<v Speaker 1>And man, yeah, in California, I think. Actually nice.

0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so your OSB, if you go into your hardware

0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:39.120
<v Speaker 2>store and they'll say you either want MDF or OSB, say,

0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 2>I know what I'm talking about, So don't try and

0:26:42.080 --> 0:26:42.960
<v Speaker 2>don't try and trick me.

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, I didn't just fall off of the turnip.

0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Truck of the lumber truck. All right, where are we now?

0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Are we harvesting it? Yeah?

0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:53.040
<v Speaker 1>So to get to this point, to get to all

0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:57.479
<v Speaker 1>this wonderful products of lumber, timber. Sorry, man, I have

0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:01.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot of trouble not confusing lumber with tim That's right.

0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Lumber is timber. Timber is not necessarily lumber, right, That's

0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:07.840
<v Speaker 1>what I was taught as a young boy. So when

0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:12.200
<v Speaker 1>you harvest timber, there's a couple of approaches, right, and well,

0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:14.760
<v Speaker 1>there's several approaches but they really fall under two umbrellas.

0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:19.360
<v Speaker 1>One is that take everything to hell with ecology approach

0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:23.920
<v Speaker 1>called clearcutting. Yes, that is all these trees can make

0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:27.639
<v Speaker 1>some money. Ergo, I'm going to cut down all these trees.

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Typically over five acres is a clear cut. Yes,

0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:33.119
<v Speaker 2>anything under that it is called a patch cut. Okay,

0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:35.200
<v Speaker 2>although people disagree on that definition too.

0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 1>But the suggestion is that under five acres an area

0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:44.360
<v Speaker 1>that small could recover being effectively clear cut.

0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure it has to do with recovery.

0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh, it has to do with the amount of money made.

0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:50.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm not sure.

0:27:50.760 --> 0:27:53.320
<v Speaker 1>All right. Well, with clear cutting, you just go in

0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:56.720
<v Speaker 1>and you cut down everything. It's it's pretty straightforward.

0:27:56.720 --> 0:27:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Really.

0:27:57.720 --> 0:28:00.840
<v Speaker 1>It takes slightly more thought to you come up with

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:05.200
<v Speaker 1>a good what's called a silver culture approach. Silver culture

0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:09.159
<v Speaker 1>takes into account the idea that you want that area

0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:12.680
<v Speaker 1>that you cut down to grow back to renew so

0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:17.680
<v Speaker 1>that again you hit that annual increase rather than decrease,

0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:20.520
<v Speaker 1>to where the amount of trees you have in stock

0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:23.719
<v Speaker 1>or growing in a particular year is actually more than

0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.760
<v Speaker 1>the amount of trees you harvest that same year. Right

0:28:26.920 --> 0:28:29.159
<v Speaker 1>to do that, you have to be selective. You have

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:32.399
<v Speaker 1>to be smart in the number, amount and type of

0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:36.440
<v Speaker 1>trees you cut down during any given tree cut.

0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, with clear cutting, when you hear that, you would

0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:44.120
<v Speaker 2>just think like, why would anyone argue that that's a

0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:44.880
<v Speaker 2>good idea?

0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 1>But people do.

0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:52.080
<v Speaker 2>It's very controversial. If you're in the timber timber industry, yeah,

0:28:52.240 --> 0:28:57.920
<v Speaker 2>forestry industry, forestry industry, you can say you will think

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:01.280
<v Speaker 2>in good confidence that you can say that clear cutting

0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:02.800
<v Speaker 2>is fine if you do it the right way.

0:29:03.640 --> 0:29:04.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't get that.

0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they said that there are seven conditions that if

0:29:08.000 --> 0:29:12.600
<v Speaker 2>you meet them then it's actually better. That sounds like,

0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:14.400
<v Speaker 2>do you want me to read them?

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 1>Seven conditions I do.

0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:20.200
<v Speaker 2>When regenerating tree species that need full sunlight to stimulate

0:29:20.240 --> 0:29:23.440
<v Speaker 2>seed sprouting and seedling growth. When dealing with sparse or exposed,

0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:26.360
<v Speaker 2>shallow rooted trees that are in danger being damaged by wind,

0:29:27.080 --> 0:29:29.400
<v Speaker 2>when trying to produce an even age stand, and a

0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 2>stand I found as a group of trees that are

0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:35.920
<v Speaker 2>the same species, age, and condition that you can manage

0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:40.520
<v Speaker 2>as a unit. That's a stand of trees. Okay, when

0:29:40.560 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 2>regenerating stands of tree species that are dependent on wind

0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:47.520
<v Speaker 2>blown seed root suckers or cones that need fire to

0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:51.440
<v Speaker 2>drop seed, when faced with salvaging overmature stands or stands

0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:55.200
<v Speaker 2>killed by insects, disease, or fire, when converting to another

0:29:55.240 --> 0:29:57.920
<v Speaker 2>tree species by planting or seeding, and finally to provide

0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:01.960
<v Speaker 2>habitat for wildlfe species that our edge new ground and

0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:05.239
<v Speaker 2>high density even age stands. I couldn't make sense out

0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:05.680
<v Speaker 2>of anything.

0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, one of it really stuck out to me, and

0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:11.480
<v Speaker 1>it was that for when you're cutting down an entire

0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:15.720
<v Speaker 1>area that's been hit by pests or disease, that one

0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:18.520
<v Speaker 1>makes sense to me, especially if you're trying to contain

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:22.800
<v Speaker 1>an epidemic. Yeah, sure, clear cut, that makes sense. Everything else,

0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there were some there's some logic to it.

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:28.360
<v Speaker 1>At least it's not just total madness.

0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Opponents to clear cutting will say it increases soil erosion,

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:38.120
<v Speaker 2>water degradation, increases silt and streams and rivers. Aesthetics is

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:40.560
<v Speaker 2>the main reason that most people are opposed to it,

0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:43.000
<v Speaker 2>or that many people are sure is that it just

0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:44.280
<v Speaker 2>looks like a wasteland.

0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Right. Well, the problem is also with clear cutting, it

0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:53.360
<v Speaker 1>sets the stage for invasive species of say like fast

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:59.040
<v Speaker 1>growing weeds to overcome seedlings, and it keeps the forest

0:30:59.080 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 1>from regenerating. Yeah, So therefore clearcutting most people, I guess,

0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:05.600
<v Speaker 1>except for the people who came up with those seven conditions,

0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:11.400
<v Speaker 1>tend to believe that it's an unsustainable method of harvesting timber.

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Right. A more sustainable method is shelter wood cutting.

0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:17.680
<v Speaker 1>That's a type of silvic culture.

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's when they use partial cuttings over time.

0:31:20.440 --> 0:31:23.320
<v Speaker 2>We're talking over ten or twenty years, only two to

0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:28.000
<v Speaker 2>four harvests where things can naturally regenerate during that timeframe.

0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Right. That sounds like a good idea. It is. There's

0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:36.160
<v Speaker 1>also seed tree seed tree harvesting, and then selection harvesting,

0:31:36.160 --> 0:31:39.240
<v Speaker 1>which is where you basically go in and say this tree,

0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:41.680
<v Speaker 1>that tree, that tree.

0:31:41.840 --> 0:31:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that are more marketable. But opponents or proponents of

0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 2>clearcutting say that's worse. I don't know why, though.

0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:52.320
<v Speaker 1>I can see I can see what they're saying. I mean, like,

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:55.840
<v Speaker 1>think about it, like your artificially selecting. Yeah, yeah, and

0:31:56.200 --> 0:32:00.760
<v Speaker 1>you're disrupting the balance or the ecology of the forest

0:32:00.840 --> 0:32:04.320
<v Speaker 1>by saying just these great oaks leave all these other

0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:07.960
<v Speaker 1>crummy elms. But the thing is is you're also affecting

0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:11.560
<v Speaker 1>the ecology by cutting down everything the ecosystem.

0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:14.880
<v Speaker 2>I would like to hear from someone that really knows

0:32:14.920 --> 0:32:17.040
<v Speaker 2>their stuff, that is a proponent of clear cutting to

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:18.640
<v Speaker 2>explain it better to me.

0:32:19.080 --> 0:32:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah than the internet did. Please do? So you do

0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:26.600
<v Speaker 1>when you do use any kind of silver cultural technique,

0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:29.320
<v Speaker 1>and you're not just clearcutting, you have to go through

0:32:29.360 --> 0:32:32.360
<v Speaker 1>the forest and figure out what trees you're going to

0:32:32.440 --> 0:32:34.760
<v Speaker 1>take a lot of times, and even with clear cutting,

0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:39.240
<v Speaker 1>they will leave trees that are say six inches in

0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:43.640
<v Speaker 1>diameter or less in size they're too young. It's like

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:50.000
<v Speaker 1>how you leave fawns when you're deer hunting. Yeah, it's

0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:51.040
<v Speaker 1>the exact same thing.

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 2>I love the name of that process when determining and

0:32:55.720 --> 0:32:59.720
<v Speaker 2>surveying the land to work it all out, It's called cruising.

0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Cruise the forest, right, everybody you know drives around the forest. Yeah,

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:07.400
<v Speaker 1>the pack of cigarettes rolled up in their shirt sleeves.

0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Next comes felling, and I got confused with tree felling

0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:15.120
<v Speaker 2>in the correct way. So I put a little post

0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:18.520
<v Speaker 2>on Facebook, and I had a guy named Gabriel Fribley

0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:22.880
<v Speaker 2>who worked as a forest service fire and fuel management dude,

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:26.280
<v Speaker 2>and he said, I've cut hundreds, if not thousands, of trees.

0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:29.320
<v Speaker 2>So you want to hear what he says, Yeah, because

0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:30.120
<v Speaker 2>we would screw it up.

0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:30.840
<v Speaker 1>I guarantee it.

0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, are you about to say that you know better

0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:33.960
<v Speaker 2>than this guy.

0:33:34.120 --> 0:33:36.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know better than this guy, but this this

0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:38.720
<v Speaker 1>article was definitely wrong from everything I found.

0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's exactly why I asked, he said. Terminology changes

0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:44.680
<v Speaker 2>depending on where you are and who you're talking to.

0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:46.719
<v Speaker 2>There are a number of different ways to do so,

0:33:46.800 --> 0:33:48.920
<v Speaker 2>but the safest and most common is to cut a

0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:51.160
<v Speaker 2>wedge out of a tree measure about a third of

0:33:51.200 --> 0:33:53.760
<v Speaker 2>the diameter. Measuring about a third of the diameter of

0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:56.240
<v Speaker 2>the tree in the direction you want the tree to fall.

0:33:57.000 --> 0:33:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Then you that's where I would just stop.

0:33:59.480 --> 0:34:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my brain just shut down.

0:34:01.480 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, then you. Cutting this wedge will require two cuts,

0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:07.760
<v Speaker 2>a flat cut and then a sloping cut that meets

0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:11.080
<v Speaker 2>the flat cut and freeze the wedge. The combination of

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:13.040
<v Speaker 2>these two cuts is commonly called the face cut.

0:34:13.320 --> 0:34:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So then that is on the side of the

0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:19.960
<v Speaker 1>tree in the direction it's gonna fall. Correct, And it's

0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:24.759
<v Speaker 1>like a triangle. Yes, with one The bottom cut is

0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:29.680
<v Speaker 1>ninety degrees, the top cut is forty five degrees I think, so, okay.

0:34:30.239 --> 0:34:33.240
<v Speaker 2>The wedge acts as a hinge, so the tree falls

0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:36.000
<v Speaker 2>in a safe, controlled manner. Then there is the third cut,

0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.000
<v Speaker 2>most commonly called the back cut, which is a straight

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:42.239
<v Speaker 2>cut in the opposite side of the tree, about halfway

0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:45.000
<v Speaker 2>through the diameter of the tree, maybe a little more.

0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:48.520
<v Speaker 1>And that's about two inches above the bottom cut on

0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:50.719
<v Speaker 1>the other side. Okay from what I saw.

0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:53.440
<v Speaker 2>And he said, ideally you want to leave twenty percent

0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:55.799
<v Speaker 2>of the diameter of the tree intact between the back

0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:58.880
<v Speaker 2>cut and the wedge. And that's called holding wood. And

0:34:58.960 --> 0:35:00.719
<v Speaker 2>I think he said hold what is just what it

0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:03.200
<v Speaker 2>sounds like. It holds a tree together to make like

0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 2>it's not coming down on your head. Basically, it holds

0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:08.080
<v Speaker 2>it together till you're ready. And he said, if you've

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:11.879
<v Speaker 2>done these two correctly, three actually you should be able

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:14.200
<v Speaker 2>to simply push the tree over with your hands. Wow,

0:35:14.560 --> 0:35:16.319
<v Speaker 2>or drive a wedge into the back to bring the

0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:16.719
<v Speaker 2>tree down.

0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:20.879
<v Speaker 1>I'll bet that's pretty awesome to push a huge tree

0:35:20.920 --> 0:35:22.200
<v Speaker 1>down with your hands.

0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:22.600
<v Speaker 2>And yell timber.

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:27.080
<v Speaker 2>So thank you to Gabriel Gabriel Fribley. Yeah, thanks Gabriel,

0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:29.240
<v Speaker 2>and for firefighting forest fires.

0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's pretty neat. Or starting them, Oh come on, No,

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:35.000
<v Speaker 1>the Forestry Service does control burns.

0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I thought you meant like, because there have

0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:41.800
<v Speaker 2>been cases where they've found arson and it was actually

0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:42.720
<v Speaker 2>a fireman.

0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Or his mother a firefighter. Do you remember that. No,

0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:50.160
<v Speaker 1>there was a dude who was a wildfire firefighter who

0:35:50.360 --> 0:35:51.680
<v Speaker 1>was not getting enough work.

0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:54.200
<v Speaker 2>I think that's what I was thinking. Was it the mom?

0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:58.000
<v Speaker 1>The mom went and said a fire so that her

0:35:58.000 --> 0:35:59.320
<v Speaker 1>son could make some money.

0:35:59.200 --> 0:36:03.040
<v Speaker 2>God bless her. Not really, but you know the mom

0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 2>that just wants to take care of business first onn right,

0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:06.720
<v Speaker 2>that's nice.

0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:10.000
<v Speaker 1>So, Chuck, you've gone through. You cut a bunch of trees.

0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:10.560
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

0:36:11.040 --> 0:36:13.920
<v Speaker 1>The first thing the loggers do is they hop all

0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:16.279
<v Speaker 1>over the trees and go h pip pip, and they

0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:18.040
<v Speaker 1>cut all the limbs off.

0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, right, it's called bucking yep.

0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:22.439
<v Speaker 1>And then once you've got the tree bucked, you cut

0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:25.799
<v Speaker 1>it into huge logs yep, from top to bottom. And

0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.520
<v Speaker 1>then you tie the logs up or you chain them

0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:31.920
<v Speaker 1>to a tractor, and you skid them along a skidding

0:36:31.960 --> 0:36:37.120
<v Speaker 1>trail to what's called the landing area.

0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:40.279
<v Speaker 2>All right, and they pre plan these skidding trails. Yeah,

0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:43.200
<v Speaker 2>this is very important, not just willy nilly, because they

0:36:43.200 --> 0:36:45.239
<v Speaker 2>are trying to protect the forest at the same time.

0:36:45.360 --> 0:36:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because if you have a bunch of tractors driving

0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:51.960
<v Speaker 1>out with lots and lots of heavy logs, heavy heavy

0:36:52.040 --> 0:36:55.680
<v Speaker 1>logs attached to them, you're going to compact the soil.

0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Like this was a tree ten minutes ago, right now

0:36:58.200 --> 0:36:58.719
<v Speaker 2>it's a log.

0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes, huge, And so if you're going to compact some

0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:04.920
<v Speaker 1>area of soil, you might as well just compact the

0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:07.600
<v Speaker 1>same area soil rather than a bunch of areas of soil,

0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:10.240
<v Speaker 1>so that the rest of the forest can stay healthy.

0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:12.880
<v Speaker 1>And when you get to the landing area, these logs

0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:16.279
<v Speaker 1>are going to be basically graded and sorted, and some

0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:18.400
<v Speaker 1>of them are either going to be sent straight to

0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:24.440
<v Speaker 1>the pulp mills to be created into paper, right or

0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:28.920
<v Speaker 1>fiberboard or something like that, and then others may be

0:37:29.040 --> 0:37:31.359
<v Speaker 1>sent in the higher grade stuff will probably be sent

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:37.880
<v Speaker 1>to sawmills or concentration yards, which are basically the second

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:42.319
<v Speaker 1>stage of these landing areas where these people say we're

0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:45.160
<v Speaker 1>going to put all these this specific species of trees

0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:48.360
<v Speaker 1>over here, because this one sawmill likes only oaks, so

0:37:48.360 --> 0:37:50.920
<v Speaker 1>we're going to send them their oaks, So either the

0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:54.040
<v Speaker 1>landing area goes directly a sawmill or there's that extra

0:37:54.120 --> 0:37:56.000
<v Speaker 1>step of the concentration yard in there.

0:37:56.280 --> 0:38:00.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And if this sounds dangerous, yeah it is. And

0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:03.880
<v Speaker 2>depending on what year you're looking at, logging is either

0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:09.760
<v Speaker 2>the one or two, aside from commercial fishing, most dangerous

0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:11.720
<v Speaker 2>job in the United States at least.

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:15.560
<v Speaker 1>Either way, you can find documentary television shows about these

0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:20.040
<v Speaker 1>professions on Discovery Channel. That's right, check your local list.

0:38:19.920 --> 0:38:23.360
<v Speaker 2>And other channels. This past year, I think it was

0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:27.400
<v Speaker 2>commercial fishing. Airline pilot was number three.

0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:29.320
<v Speaker 1>I find that very unnerving.

0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:31.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, Yeah, that's what I thought. It's like I

0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:32.799
<v Speaker 2>thought planes didn't crash much.

0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:33.680
<v Speaker 1>What's up with that?

0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:34.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:38:35.000 --> 0:38:36.839
<v Speaker 1>Well, in my fear of flying just came back.

0:38:37.360 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Farmers and ranchers are four, in case you're wondering, mining

0:38:40.680 --> 0:38:45.280
<v Speaker 2>machine operator, then roofers sanitation collectors, which I thought was interesting.

0:38:45.680 --> 0:38:47.960
<v Speaker 1>Are you sure it's not like military jet pilot.

0:38:48.400 --> 0:38:50.160
<v Speaker 2>Dude, soldier wasn't even listed.

0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:52.600
<v Speaker 1>In the top ten an airline pilot.

0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:54.840
<v Speaker 2>But like I said, I think they go by deaths

0:38:54.880 --> 0:38:58.040
<v Speaker 2>in that previous year. I don't care, so it probably

0:38:58.040 --> 0:39:00.240
<v Speaker 2>depends on if we're at war or you know.

0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but airline pilot was still in there, it was dude.

0:39:05.080 --> 0:39:09.160
<v Speaker 2>And then truckers and industrial machinists.

0:39:08.880 --> 0:39:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Especially ice road truckers probably yeah, for real, I'm sure

0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:16.640
<v Speaker 1>among truckers that they probably have the higher mortality rate.

0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, you were shilling for Discovery.

0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:19.560
<v Speaker 1>I think that was on History.

0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:22.879
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, you're shilling more for Discovery now than when

0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:24.800
<v Speaker 2>they owned us, which is weird.

0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:25.640
<v Speaker 1>It is weird.

0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:27.239
<v Speaker 2>What do you think podcaster is?

0:39:28.280 --> 0:39:32.959
<v Speaker 1>Podcaster? Pretty? Yeah, cushy, unless apparently you're on a commercial airline.

0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Like a one to ten million chants of death. Yes,

0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:36.320
<v Speaker 2>if you're a podcaster.

0:39:37.760 --> 0:39:40.000
<v Speaker 1>On the job death, you know, we could figure that

0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:41.640
<v Speaker 1>out if we knew what math was.

0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:44.759
<v Speaker 2>I don't I could. I'm trying to think if, like

0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:49.319
<v Speaker 2>how we would die from doing this flying somewhere to

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:50.320
<v Speaker 2>do a live podcast.

0:39:50.360 --> 0:39:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Probably right, I would say if somebody locked the door

0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:57.840
<v Speaker 1>and Jerry started a fire in here, right then we

0:39:57.840 --> 0:39:58.720
<v Speaker 1>could probably die.

0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:00.800
<v Speaker 2>From Actually, in our case, it would if Jerry finally

0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:02.320
<v Speaker 2>snaps and just murders us both.

0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:04.399
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I think we could defend Jerry off.

0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:08.319
<v Speaker 1>So Chuck once the stuff hits the saw mill, we'll

0:40:08.320 --> 0:40:11.000
<v Speaker 1>go there. We already kind of hit the pulp mill. Yeah,

0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:14.360
<v Speaker 1>which stink. By the way, one of the foulst smells

0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:14.920
<v Speaker 1>on earth.

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Are those like the can I just say eggfart?

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:20.520
<v Speaker 1>No way worse than that.

0:40:20.680 --> 0:40:22.479
<v Speaker 2>Oh I thought it was like that real sulfury smell.

0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Now that's well watered down in Florida. Okay, this is

0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:29.320
<v Speaker 1>like it's its own smell. All right, you've surely smelled

0:40:29.320 --> 0:40:29.680
<v Speaker 1>it before.

0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:31.120
<v Speaker 2>You ever been to a chicken farm?

0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:33.560
<v Speaker 1>That's okay, you're right, that's not funny. That might be

0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:35.399
<v Speaker 1>the worst smell of all. Didn't you used to work

0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:37.440
<v Speaker 1>on chicken farms doing software or something?

0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not on farms, Oh okay, but other people in

0:40:42.160 --> 0:40:44.600
<v Speaker 2>our company would go to the farms and like teach

0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:45.640
<v Speaker 2>them how to use the software.

0:40:45.719 --> 0:40:47.160
<v Speaker 1>It smells so bad, Which is.

0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:50.799
<v Speaker 2>Imagine that job going teaching these people that have been

0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:54.560
<v Speaker 2>like literally counting chicken heads for their entire life, teach

0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:56.560
<v Speaker 2>them how to use the computer to do it. Yeah,

0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:58.200
<v Speaker 2>they were not receptive many times.

0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Talk about hunting and pecking. Yeah, there's a lot of

0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:06.359
<v Speaker 1>honey in pecking. So at the at the sawmill, right, Yeah,

0:41:07.160 --> 0:41:10.560
<v Speaker 1>when you're cutting up. Well, when you're when you get

0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:13.839
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of logs, you're like, these are some good logs. Yeah,

0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:16.279
<v Speaker 1>but I can't do much with this bark. It can

0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:19.600
<v Speaker 1>use mulch that kind of thing. Sure, And actually bark,

0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:22.719
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize this bark represents basically one of two

0:41:24.320 --> 0:41:27.120
<v Speaker 1>organs of the tree. Yes, there's actually three.

0:41:27.200 --> 0:41:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Should we talk about the inside of a tree a

0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:28.920
<v Speaker 2>little bit?

0:41:28.960 --> 0:41:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I thought this was interesting.

0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, me too.

0:41:30.920 --> 0:41:34.520
<v Speaker 1>So the bark is the folham, it's the sugar conducting cells,

0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:39.560
<v Speaker 1>flow them, flow them, and and basically it just provides energy.

0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:41.600
<v Speaker 1>It transfers energy throughout the tree.

0:41:41.760 --> 0:41:44.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like the internal piping. Part of it is

0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:45.040
<v Speaker 2>the flow them.

0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And there's that one Bugs Bunny song. It makes

0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.239
<v Speaker 1>like you know that Bugs Bunny assembly line song. I

0:41:52.520 --> 0:41:56.040
<v Speaker 1>remember the totally powerhouse something.

0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:56.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:41:56.360 --> 0:41:58.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that's the sound that that makes if you

0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:02.640
<v Speaker 1>listen very carefully in a forest. True.

0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Uh, there's another set of internal piping the tissue called

0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:11.320
<v Speaker 2>the xylum, and they carry The xylum carries the water

0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:14.759
<v Speaker 2>up and down the tree, right, And they are well

0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:17.360
<v Speaker 2>suited to do so because they are like pipes.

0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:22.840
<v Speaker 1>They are shaped like piping, right, So the fulham flow them.

0:42:23.080 --> 0:42:26.839
<v Speaker 1>That's bark. Yeah, the xylum that's the wood inside, and

0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:29.279
<v Speaker 1>in between the two, you have a thin layer that's

0:42:29.320 --> 0:42:32.560
<v Speaker 1>basically stem cells. It's called the cambium, and the cambium

0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:37.680
<v Speaker 1>produces flow them and xylum cells, and it produces xylum

0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:40.840
<v Speaker 1>cells inward. Right. Yeah, So the stuff, the part of

0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:43.200
<v Speaker 1>the tree that's closest to the bark is also the youngest.

0:42:43.400 --> 0:42:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the heartwood.

0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:49.719
<v Speaker 1>No, that's in center deep. Yeah, that's the sapwood. Further inside,

0:42:49.719 --> 0:42:53.279
<v Speaker 1>deeper into the tree, that's the older xylum, and that's

0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:56.480
<v Speaker 1>the heartwood. It's just the oldest part of the tree. Yes,

0:42:56.960 --> 0:43:00.640
<v Speaker 1>and you when the log gets to the saw, they're

0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:03.520
<v Speaker 1>going to basically separate those two things because there's different

0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:06.719
<v Speaker 1>uses for sapwood and for heartwood. But the first thing

0:43:06.760 --> 0:43:08.320
<v Speaker 1>they're going to do is get rid of the bark.

0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They put it in a debarking drum and it's

0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:14.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of like a nightclub. It just kind of everything

0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:14.880
<v Speaker 2>rubs together.

0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. They put several different logs in and let the

0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:19.440
<v Speaker 1>logs rub their own bark off of one another.

0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they put on little music.

0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:23.960
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty horrific. Ma, Like you're a tree.

0:43:24.000 --> 0:43:27.000
<v Speaker 2>And all of a sudden, you have a naked tree.

0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:30.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, you know, strip the skin right off of it.

0:43:30.080 --> 0:43:35.759
<v Speaker 2>And that bark can become a mulch and what else, oh, fuel, fuel.

0:43:35.800 --> 0:43:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Pretty much it okay, decorative mulch and fuel. But once

0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:43.160
<v Speaker 1>you've got that naked log, you're all set. So you

0:43:43.200 --> 0:43:46.960
<v Speaker 1>want to cut the sapwood from the heartwood because the

0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:51.759
<v Speaker 1>heartwood is extraordinarily strong, and you use it for posts

0:43:51.760 --> 0:43:54.120
<v Speaker 1>and timbers and beams and things like that that you

0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:56.560
<v Speaker 1>really are going to put a lot of weight on. Yeah,

0:43:56.560 --> 0:44:00.440
<v Speaker 1>flooring sometimes right sometimes. And actually there's another article I

0:44:00.480 --> 0:44:05.640
<v Speaker 1>read once about this, like this commercial diving company down

0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:09.480
<v Speaker 1>in like central Florida, that their whole job was they

0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:14.520
<v Speaker 1>would go down in the swamp and like raise old

0:44:14.560 --> 0:44:18.040
<v Speaker 1>cypress logs from the nineteenth century. They have just been

0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:21.920
<v Speaker 1>down there since then, and they sell them as like

0:44:22.040 --> 0:44:27.080
<v Speaker 1>reclaimed original like heart of cypress for flooring. People pay

0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:31.400
<v Speaker 1>mind boggling amounts for because this log was felled, you know,

0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.320
<v Speaker 1>one hundred something years ago and it just sank. It

0:44:34.360 --> 0:44:36.200
<v Speaker 1>happened to be one of the ones that sank, and

0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:38.080
<v Speaker 1>they couldn't do anything with it. Back then, there were

0:44:38.120 --> 0:44:40.720
<v Speaker 1>so many cypress trees that they just didn't even bother

0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:42.960
<v Speaker 1>with those. So now these guys go down and dive

0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:45.920
<v Speaker 1>and identify them and raise them up and then sell them.

0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:47.080
<v Speaker 1>That junk is heavy.

0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And actually that perfect time to mention my buddy

0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:56.600
<v Speaker 2>Jason from Damn Caster Guitars. He built me a custom

0:44:56.719 --> 0:45:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Telecaster replica and they use old wood from a dam

0:45:03.280 --> 0:45:06.040
<v Speaker 2>in Georgia that had been underwater for like one hundred years.

0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:06.839
<v Speaker 1>That's really cool.

0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:10.200
<v Speaker 2>And this thing is it's the heaviest guitar. It's beautiful,

0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:11.480
<v Speaker 2>but it's tough.

0:45:11.280 --> 0:45:14.120
<v Speaker 1>On my back. Is it worth it though? Yeah?

0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:15.839
<v Speaker 2>Man, it's I mean, it's gorgeous. And the wood they

0:45:15.840 --> 0:45:18.440
<v Speaker 2>get is really just heavy and dense and gorgeous wood.

0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:20.279
<v Speaker 2>And they got this big load of it from a

0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:23.320
<v Speaker 2>dam that they tore down and I think Columbus, Georgia.

0:45:23.680 --> 0:45:25.200
<v Speaker 2>And so they've got all this wood now that they're

0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:26.400
<v Speaker 2>making these sweet guitars out of.

0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:30.040
<v Speaker 1>Would you name your guitar? I haven't named it. I

0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:32.840
<v Speaker 1>don't really name my guitars, although he wanted me to. Yeah,

0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:34.080
<v Speaker 1>you gotta name your guitar.

0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:36.719
<v Speaker 2>I got four guitars. There are one through four.

0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:40.640
<v Speaker 1>No, you should name one. Joni and one Chachi at

0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:42.920
<v Speaker 1>least all right, and one I always keep them right

0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 1>next to each other.

0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:47.400
<v Speaker 2>And one Phonsie and one Ralph Mouth. Now who was

0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Phonsie's Leather Tuscadero.

0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Pinky tusca Era. Well they're sisters, So was Pinky

0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:55.160
<v Speaker 1>the younger sister.

0:45:55.280 --> 0:45:56.799
<v Speaker 2>I think Leather was the one that looked like Joon

0:45:56.920 --> 0:45:59.319
<v Speaker 2>Jet and Pinky is the one that looked like a

0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:03.560
<v Speaker 2>bombshell like had the you know, the pink sweaters and

0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:04.719
<v Speaker 2>the big poofy hair.

0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:06.319
<v Speaker 1>So which one did he date?

0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:11.479
<v Speaker 2>I think he dated Pinky. Okay, Leather, she she didn't

0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:11.919
<v Speaker 2>need guys.

0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:15.279
<v Speaker 1>She was. I think I remember who you're talking about.

0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:18.319
<v Speaker 1>I don't remember Pinky tusky Air. I definitely remember Leather

0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:20.680
<v Speaker 1>tusky Era. Man whoever wrote that show was.

0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:24.239
<v Speaker 2>A genius, right, Yeah, Well, what they're doing is they're

0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:27.120
<v Speaker 2>satisfying everyone. They're like, you like the ladies rough and Tumble.

0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:30.359
<v Speaker 2>You like them dressed up in pink with like poofy hair.

0:46:30.560 --> 0:46:34.680
<v Speaker 1>Right? Do you like them with an Italian name? Right? Uh?

0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Where are we have we debarked.

0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:39.879
<v Speaker 1>Or in like thefties Milwaukee?

0:46:40.360 --> 0:46:40.560
<v Speaker 2>Right?

0:46:40.840 --> 0:46:42.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, we have debarked to answer your question.

0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:44.799
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So we've debarked. You got a naked log. If

0:46:44.840 --> 0:46:46.400
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be paper, it's going to go to

0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:50.560
<v Speaker 2>a chipper which cuts the log into little little squares

0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:54.880
<v Speaker 2>about two inches by a quarter of an inch thick,

0:46:55.680 --> 0:46:58.040
<v Speaker 2>and they're going to mix those chips up with chemicals

0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:01.880
<v Speaker 2>and stuff. They're going to put it in a digest.

0:47:02.040 --> 0:47:05.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a big pressure cooker and that is what separates

0:47:05.400 --> 0:47:08.320
<v Speaker 2>that cellulose from the lignan that we talked about earlier.

0:47:08.360 --> 0:47:09.040
<v Speaker 2>To get your pulp.

0:47:09.160 --> 0:47:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just want to get that lignan out of there. Yeah.

0:47:12.280 --> 0:47:15.719
<v Speaker 2>And it's wet, it's fibrous. They bleach it to the

0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:20.000
<v Speaker 2>proper shade, mix it with water again, form it into

0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:23.120
<v Speaker 2>big mats, and then press them under these incredible rollers

0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:26.359
<v Speaker 2>to press out all that water. Right, and then there

0:47:26.400 --> 0:47:28.640
<v Speaker 2>you go. You've got what will be paper.

0:47:28.920 --> 0:47:34.240
<v Speaker 1>Right. And if you're making lumber, you send your log

0:47:35.520 --> 0:47:39.360
<v Speaker 1>to the scooby doo head rig is what it's called.

0:47:39.560 --> 0:47:41.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, man, those things are awesome, the thing.

0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:44.520
<v Speaker 1>That people are always tied on going toward. Oh yeah,

0:47:44.600 --> 0:47:46.760
<v Speaker 1>sort of, and it just cuts the log in half,

0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:49.360
<v Speaker 1>or it cuts the edges off and maybe like just

0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:52.040
<v Speaker 1>cuts out the heart. It sort of roughs it out right,

0:47:52.120 --> 0:47:55.280
<v Speaker 1>and then you have a couple of other types of saws.

0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:58.480
<v Speaker 1>There's a trimmer that squares the ends, and before that

0:47:58.560 --> 0:48:02.400
<v Speaker 1>you have an edger which creates the well the edges

0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:05.560
<v Speaker 1>for your lumber. Yeah, and then of course there's a

0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 1>whole other process involved in making roundwood aka posts, which

0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:10.960
<v Speaker 1>are not lumber.

0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Evidently, your heartwood is going to be older, obviously, because

0:48:16.840 --> 0:48:18.760
<v Speaker 2>you know how you can tell a tree by the rings,

0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:22.280
<v Speaker 2>those inner rings that we talked about the xylum.

0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, and it's the cambium is creating more xylum cells.

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:28.120
<v Speaker 1>They're going on the outside of the heartwood. Yeah, the

0:48:28.160 --> 0:48:29.240
<v Speaker 1>tree is growing outward.

0:48:29.320 --> 0:48:32.080
<v Speaker 2>And there's gonna be more knots in that heartwood too,

0:48:33.120 --> 0:48:35.640
<v Speaker 2>which is so branches past it's sturdier.

0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:37.719
<v Speaker 1>But a lot of people would also be like, I

0:48:37.760 --> 0:48:40.279
<v Speaker 1>don't want to see knots, so they're not going to

0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:40.719
<v Speaker 1>use it.

0:48:40.680 --> 0:48:43.240
<v Speaker 2>For or I do want to see knots, Yeah, depending

0:48:43.239 --> 0:48:45.560
<v Speaker 2>on what you're doing. Sickos like a good knot in

0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:48.760
<v Speaker 2>the right place. For instance, my guitar has a beautiful

0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:52.960
<v Speaker 2>knot in the center of the back that's just gorgeous. Jony,

0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:57.320
<v Speaker 2>now that I would call this one pinky Tuscadero.

0:48:57.400 --> 0:49:00.799
<v Speaker 1>I think, okay, so that's pinky tuscad Era leather.

0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:04.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I actually looked up not so I was like, wait,

0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:07.120
<v Speaker 2>what is a nott, not even thinking well, of course

0:49:07.160 --> 0:49:10.000
<v Speaker 2>it's just a former branch. Oh.

0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:11.200
<v Speaker 1>I didn't think about that either.

0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's either a branch base or a branch bud

0:49:14.800 --> 0:49:15.560
<v Speaker 2>that never happened.

0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Huh. Do you know? Not only did I not think

0:49:18.680 --> 0:49:20.399
<v Speaker 1>that that's what it not was, I didn't even think

0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:21.680
<v Speaker 1>to think what it not was.

0:49:23.080 --> 0:49:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, And the last part of that process

0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:27.640
<v Speaker 2>is you got to dry the stuff out. So you

0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:29.239
<v Speaker 2>stack it up, sorted out, and you dry it in

0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:29.640
<v Speaker 2>a kiln.

0:49:30.600 --> 0:49:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Correct. Yeah, all right, it's like you made something out

0:49:33.640 --> 0:49:34.000
<v Speaker 1>of clay.

0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Should we take a break?

0:49:35.800 --> 0:49:37.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's take a break, man, and then we'll take

0:49:37.760 --> 0:49:58.040
<v Speaker 1>it home. So, Chuck, you kind of mentioned like early

0:49:58.280 --> 0:50:02.080
<v Speaker 1>conservation folks that you or in.

0:50:02.000 --> 0:50:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Awe of John Muir, Teddy Roosevelt. Yeah, John Muir was cool, weirdo.

0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and these people they reacted to this rampant deforestation

0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:17.040
<v Speaker 1>that was going on, Like there was a significant amount

0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:20.080
<v Speaker 1>of logging that happened between the seventeenth century and the

0:50:20.080 --> 0:50:21.280
<v Speaker 1>mid nineteenth century.

0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, up to thirty percent of the original forest land

0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:25.240
<v Speaker 2>by the end of the Civil War was gone.

0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:29.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and we're talking about a billion acres that was

0:50:29.880 --> 0:50:33.960
<v Speaker 1>originally there, So thirty percent of that gone, right, unbelievable.

0:50:34.000 --> 0:50:36.240
<v Speaker 1>And there was what was called ay they were worried

0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:38.760
<v Speaker 1>that there was going to be a quote national famine

0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:42.200
<v Speaker 1>of wood. Yeah, and it wasn't just conservation at the time,

0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:46.800
<v Speaker 1>like plastics had not been developed. Sure, cheap easy metal

0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:50.720
<v Speaker 1>alloys weren't developed until say the mid twentieth century, right, Yeah,

0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:53.439
<v Speaker 1>so we like there was Yeah, we really used wood

0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:56.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot. Yeah, and for also for fuel, for cooking,

0:50:56.200 --> 0:50:59.239
<v Speaker 1>for heating, all that stuff. We needed wood. So it

0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:01.239
<v Speaker 1>was going to be a big deal if we ran

0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:03.719
<v Speaker 1>out of wood. And as a result, a lot of

0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:08.600
<v Speaker 1>people got behind these conservation efforts, and especially the government

0:51:08.719 --> 0:51:13.399
<v Speaker 1>here in the United States. All government levels own forest land,

0:51:14.480 --> 0:51:17.760
<v Speaker 1>but for the most part, the federal government owns the most. Yes,

0:51:17.800 --> 0:51:20.080
<v Speaker 1>And they don't just protect it and say this is

0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:24.360
<v Speaker 1>off limits. They say, you guys can come and pay

0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:27.680
<v Speaker 1>for the right to cut down some trees from here,

0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.080
<v Speaker 1>but you're going to follow our rules.

0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, three hundred and twenty three million acres of federally

0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:37.560
<v Speaker 2>owned land in this country is public forest land. Yeah,

0:51:37.600 --> 0:51:40.719
<v Speaker 2>so either like national forest or I guess, to be

0:51:40.920 --> 0:51:43.600
<v Speaker 2>used by the logging industry if you meet the right conditions, I.

0:51:43.560 --> 0:51:46.680
<v Speaker 1>Guess, yeah. But I think even national forests fall under

0:51:47.000 --> 0:51:48.399
<v Speaker 1>that umbrellas well.

0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:50.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I didn't mean, yeah, that they were not the same.

0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:56.839
<v Speaker 1>What does happen sometimes is say an animal will be

0:51:56.880 --> 0:52:00.160
<v Speaker 1>placed an animal that calls forest land or timberland and

0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:03.840
<v Speaker 1>its home will be placed on the endangered list, and

0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:07.360
<v Speaker 1>as a result of that, the forest industry will just

0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:09.760
<v Speaker 1>completely shift. And that was the case with the Mexican

0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:11.240
<v Speaker 1>spotted owl in the nineties.

0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:12.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what happened to that guy?

0:52:12.880 --> 0:52:15.120
<v Speaker 1>So the Mexican spotted owl was on its way to

0:52:15.160 --> 0:52:20.080
<v Speaker 1>becoming extinct, and it made its home in the western

0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:25.279
<v Speaker 1>softwood temperate forests, right, and the US government decided that

0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:27.560
<v Speaker 1>this was enough of a problem that they put it

0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:30.840
<v Speaker 1>on the endangered species list and protected it. And that

0:52:31.000 --> 0:52:34.719
<v Speaker 1>meant that its habitat was protected, which meant that all

0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:38.160
<v Speaker 1>of this public land that all these logging companies used

0:52:38.160 --> 0:52:41.560
<v Speaker 1>to go and log on, they couldn't log there anymore.

0:52:41.960 --> 0:52:43.880
<v Speaker 1>A lot of page did not like that decision. No,

0:52:43.960 --> 0:52:46.920
<v Speaker 1>they didn't. It was enormous. And you know that a

0:52:46.960 --> 0:52:50.440
<v Speaker 1>federal agency is doing its job when it's being sued

0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:53.960
<v Speaker 1>by conservationists and logging companies, right, yeah, at the same

0:52:54.000 --> 0:52:57.200
<v Speaker 1>time over the same thing. Sure, so or else they're

0:52:57.239 --> 0:52:59.640
<v Speaker 1>not doing their job at all, depending on how you

0:52:59.640 --> 0:53:04.400
<v Speaker 1>look at it. But eventually the Mexican spotted owl was protected,

0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:09.080
<v Speaker 1>its habitat was protected, and so the forestry, the timber

0:53:09.120 --> 0:53:14.560
<v Speaker 1>industry shifted eastward. Yeah, And so there was a shift

0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:17.120
<v Speaker 1>not just in direction on the continent, but also in

0:53:17.880 --> 0:53:21.840
<v Speaker 1>where they were taking timber from. So now more timber

0:53:21.880 --> 0:53:25.200
<v Speaker 1>is taken from privately held lands in the East than

0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:28.280
<v Speaker 1>public held lands in the West because of the Mexican

0:53:28.320 --> 0:53:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Because of this one type of owl, right completely changed

0:53:31.520 --> 0:53:35.160
<v Speaker 1>the complexion of the timber industry in the United States.

0:53:35.400 --> 0:53:38.440
<v Speaker 1>But the timber industry is doing just fine. Yeah, you know,

0:53:38.480 --> 0:53:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and it's a it's a real testimony that like it

0:53:41.560 --> 0:53:45.800
<v Speaker 1>can adapt. Yeah, you know, the Mexican spotted owl can adapt,

0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:48.080
<v Speaker 1>but the timber industry can. Apparently.

0:53:48.400 --> 0:53:49.800
<v Speaker 2>You ever see owls in Atlanta?

0:53:50.680 --> 0:53:52.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I have before. Why They're amazing.

0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I love owls, gorgeous in that wingspan, it's like it's

0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:58.720
<v Speaker 2>remarkable when you see one fly. Yes, it's like whoa

0:53:58.800 --> 0:54:01.560
<v Speaker 2>that looks that's bigger than most birds.

0:54:01.760 --> 0:54:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Have you ever had one like perch outside of

0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:05.440
<v Speaker 1>your window while you're trying to sleep?

0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:07.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well I've got We have one that lives behind

0:54:07.239 --> 0:54:07.680
<v Speaker 2>our house.

0:54:07.760 --> 0:54:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Does he keep you up?

0:54:09.120 --> 0:54:11.200
<v Speaker 2>No, we've seen it a couple of times and we

0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:13.160
<v Speaker 2>hear it a lot, which I love.

0:54:13.239 --> 0:54:15.480
<v Speaker 1>It didn't like wake me up or anything. Oh, we

0:54:15.520 --> 0:54:16.960
<v Speaker 1>had one that was keeping us awake.

0:54:17.120 --> 0:54:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Really you shoot it?

0:54:18.440 --> 0:54:18.560
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:54:18.719 --> 0:54:18.799
<v Speaker 2>No?

0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Nice went out and shine a flashlight in this general direction. Yeah,

0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:25.160
<v Speaker 1>and it piped down. Never heard from it again. Oh wow,

0:54:25.200 --> 0:54:27.960
<v Speaker 1>So you got the message, gotcha? And we were oul

0:54:28.000 --> 0:54:28.640
<v Speaker 1>lists after that.

0:54:28.719 --> 0:54:30.600
<v Speaker 2>He's like that guy with the flashlight. He's bad news.

0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:36.880
<v Speaker 2>All getting out of here, all right? So the federal

0:54:36.960 --> 0:54:39.960
<v Speaker 2>government owns a lot of land which is managed managed,

0:54:40.239 --> 0:54:46.000
<v Speaker 2>managed by some different bodies, but it's you know, they

0:54:46.040 --> 0:54:48.000
<v Speaker 2>try to do their best job with things like the

0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Healthy Forest Restoration Act, signed in two two thousand and

0:54:52.160 --> 0:54:57.439
<v Speaker 2>three by GW. Bush all right to help protect forest land.

0:54:57.560 --> 0:55:00.279
<v Speaker 1>So chuck, it's about here though that Like this is

0:55:00.320 --> 0:55:02.760
<v Speaker 1>when I was like, I feel like we're really wading

0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:07.560
<v Speaker 1>into un explained territory a dark forest. Yeah, there's a

0:55:07.560 --> 0:55:09.879
<v Speaker 1>lot of like I suspect a lot of green washing

0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:14.280
<v Speaker 1>going on, and so I started poking around, and I've

0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:20.280
<v Speaker 1>found that the Sustainable Forestry Initiative is very frequently accused

0:55:20.320 --> 0:55:25.000
<v Speaker 1>of greenwashing. Yeah, so you know how like fair trade,

0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:27.319
<v Speaker 1>Like you'll look for a fair trade label and you'll

0:55:27.360 --> 0:55:28.839
<v Speaker 1>be like, I'm gonna pay a little more for this

0:55:28.920 --> 0:55:31.480
<v Speaker 1>because I believe that the people who made it were

0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:34.279
<v Speaker 1>paid a better wage than you know, this competitor that

0:55:34.360 --> 0:55:38.080
<v Speaker 1>wasn't fair trade. That's what the Sustainable Forestry Initiative Seal

0:55:38.120 --> 0:55:40.600
<v Speaker 1>of approval was meant for. That you could look for

0:55:40.640 --> 0:55:44.880
<v Speaker 1>it on like a ream of paper or something and say, oh, well,

0:55:45.040 --> 0:55:49.000
<v Speaker 1>this thing was this paper was harvested using say, shelter

0:55:49.080 --> 0:55:52.080
<v Speaker 1>cutting techniques. There's some sort of silver cultural techniques that

0:55:52.600 --> 0:55:58.600
<v Speaker 1>promotes sustainable forestry. The thing is is there's some other groups,

0:55:58.680 --> 0:56:02.040
<v Speaker 1>say like forest Ethic is a nonprofit kind of watch

0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:05.640
<v Speaker 1>dog group that has come out and really aggressively said

0:56:05.680 --> 0:56:10.600
<v Speaker 1>that the Sustainable Forestry Initiative is basically just a greenwashing

0:56:10.719 --> 0:56:15.480
<v Speaker 1>front operationally that's funded by paper companies. It was international paper,

0:56:15.600 --> 0:56:20.000
<v Speaker 1>International paper. Yeah, there are a couple of others that

0:56:20.480 --> 0:56:25.680
<v Speaker 1>I think Weyerhauser was one maybe that that fund this

0:56:25.680 --> 0:56:30.520
<v Speaker 1>this approval company or organization. So is it BS From

0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:34.360
<v Speaker 1>what I can tell, really it looks that way, and yeah,

0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:37.759
<v Speaker 1>it's yeah, it's very disconcerting. Fortunately, there are some that

0:56:37.800 --> 0:56:40.880
<v Speaker 1>do appear to be utterly legitimate, and the chief among

0:56:40.920 --> 0:56:44.640
<v Speaker 1>them is the Forest Stewardship Council. Okay, they do the

0:56:44.680 --> 0:56:46.319
<v Speaker 1>same thing, but they're the real deal.

0:56:46.640 --> 0:56:48.480
<v Speaker 2>So this article you sent me that there are a

0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:52.040
<v Speaker 2>lot of major brands dumping the s FI. I saw

0:56:52.080 --> 0:56:55.280
<v Speaker 2>that and I was like, well, that's terrible, but they're

0:56:55.320 --> 0:56:57.200
<v Speaker 2>moving to the better standard. Is that correct?

0:56:57.280 --> 0:57:00.239
<v Speaker 1>That's the impression I have. Okay, that makes sense now, Yeah,

0:57:00.320 --> 0:57:04.480
<v Speaker 1>rather than bearing the SFI seal of approval, like or

0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:06.879
<v Speaker 1>buying paper that bears that seal of approval, because it's

0:57:06.880 --> 0:57:09.160
<v Speaker 1>not even necessarily the paper companies that are doing this

0:57:09.640 --> 0:57:12.680
<v Speaker 1>because they're the ones funding the s FI. It's like

0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Office Depot is no longer buying s FI sourced paper.

0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:20.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm guessing they're probably going with the f SC, the

0:57:20.360 --> 0:57:22.120
<v Speaker 1>Forest Stewardship Council.

0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:27.000
<v Speaker 2>So Hewlett Packard at and T Pitney Bowls all state,

0:57:27.960 --> 0:57:30.400
<v Speaker 2>they buy a lot of paper, shouting them out right

0:57:30.640 --> 0:57:32.560
<v Speaker 2>because they're doing the right thing. It sounds like, yeah,

0:57:32.600 --> 0:57:34.480
<v Speaker 2>that makes more sense. I was confused. I thought they

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:37.840
<v Speaker 2>were dropping the SFI, which was a good thing. But

0:57:38.120 --> 0:57:39.640
<v Speaker 2>the ye, this is all clear.

0:57:39.480 --> 0:57:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Now rank you Hey, don't thank me. Thank forest ethics,

0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:48.320
<v Speaker 1>who apparently routinely get seased in desist letters from paper

0:57:48.320 --> 0:57:53.120
<v Speaker 1>companies in the forests, or the I'm sure Sustainable Forestry Initiative,

0:57:54.040 --> 0:57:59.840
<v Speaker 1>and then chuck. The Forest Service itself is often criticized

0:57:59.840 --> 0:58:05.080
<v Speaker 1>for being in bed with the timber industry. I'm sure

0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:07.800
<v Speaker 1>that Alaska thing I was teasing earlier, Yeah, yeah, what

0:58:07.880 --> 0:58:10.600
<v Speaker 1>is it? There is something called the Big Thorn Timber Sale.

0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Six thousand acres sixty two hundred acres of seven hundred

0:58:16.280 --> 0:58:20.360
<v Speaker 1>year old forest in the Tongas in southern Alaska up

0:58:20.360 --> 0:58:24.160
<v Speaker 1>for sale for clear cutting. Wow, clear cutting. And the

0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:27.400
<v Speaker 1>problem is is like old growth forest, Yes it is.

0:58:27.440 --> 0:58:30.200
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly right. The problem is is not just that

0:58:30.280 --> 0:58:33.320
<v Speaker 1>people are worried that the forest won't recover, but that

0:58:33.400 --> 0:58:37.280
<v Speaker 1>this forest is also used by other industries like fishing industry,

0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:42.240
<v Speaker 1>tourism industry. These people are like, we're using this acreage

0:58:42.360 --> 0:58:45.000
<v Speaker 1>can't just come in and cut it down. Here's a

0:58:45.040 --> 0:58:48.360
<v Speaker 1>couple of lawsuits to stop that sale, and I guess

0:58:48.400 --> 0:58:52.720
<v Speaker 1>the federal judge in twenty fifteen, I think March ruled, Nope,

0:58:52.760 --> 0:58:56.320
<v Speaker 1>go ahead, you're well within your rights. Maybe disgusting, but

0:58:56.480 --> 0:59:00.480
<v Speaker 1>go ahead and sell sixty two hundred acres of old

0:59:00.480 --> 0:59:04.000
<v Speaker 1>growth forest in Alaska for clear cutting.

0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:07.520
<v Speaker 2>With the presumption that it will go to a logging company. Yes,

0:59:08.280 --> 0:59:11.600
<v Speaker 2>you'd be great as if like, oh, I don't know,

0:59:11.680 --> 0:59:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Warren Buffett bought it and said I'm going to build

0:59:15.360 --> 0:59:17.040
<v Speaker 2>a small house in the middle of it, and that's it.

0:59:17.160 --> 0:59:21.760
<v Speaker 1>That guy should wear a cape. So deforestation is a thing,

0:59:21.760 --> 0:59:23.680
<v Speaker 1>and I agree with you. We should definitely do an

0:59:23.680 --> 0:59:26.280
<v Speaker 1>episode just on that, right. Yeah, but that's not the

0:59:26.320 --> 0:59:29.880
<v Speaker 1>only threat to the forests of the world.

0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:30.640
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:59:30.800 --> 0:59:33.440
<v Speaker 1>It is a serious threat, but man made threats are

0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:34.240
<v Speaker 1>not the only threat.

0:59:34.400 --> 0:59:38.840
<v Speaker 2>No, there's a few more natural threats. Insects, of course,

0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:45.720
<v Speaker 2>specifically invasive species like the Eurasian gypsy moth came here

0:59:45.800 --> 0:59:49.200
<v Speaker 2>in the nineteenth century and when it's a caterpillar, it

0:59:50.000 --> 0:59:54.320
<v Speaker 2>eats the leaves of hardwood trees, like a lot of them,

0:59:54.400 --> 0:59:58.240
<v Speaker 2>to the tune of since nineteen thirty defoliated more than

0:59:58.320 --> 1:00:02.680
<v Speaker 2>eighty million acres. That is so many East Coast forest Yeah,

1:00:03.400 --> 1:00:05.439
<v Speaker 2>eighty million acres just on the East coast.

1:00:05.480 --> 1:00:06.400
<v Speaker 1>This little caterpillar.

1:00:06.560 --> 1:00:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeap, So that's an insect disease is a problem. I

1:00:10.680 --> 1:00:15.120
<v Speaker 2>know here in Georgia we've sudden oak death is a

1:00:15.160 --> 1:00:15.760
<v Speaker 2>big problem.

1:00:15.840 --> 1:00:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:00:16.960 --> 1:00:20.640
<v Speaker 2>And since it was originated in nineteen or I guess

1:00:20.640 --> 1:00:23.360
<v Speaker 2>found in nineteen fifty five, ninety covered.

1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:27.000
<v Speaker 1>What I say, fifty five, oh, a full forty years after.

1:00:26.760 --> 1:00:29.240
<v Speaker 2>That ninety five. Yeah, I remember when this happened. It

1:00:29.240 --> 1:00:33.640
<v Speaker 2>was probably Clinton's fault. It was Clinton's fault. Since then,

1:00:33.680 --> 1:00:35.880
<v Speaker 2>has killed more than one million oak trees.

1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's no gypsy moth, but that's a lot now.

1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:44.040
<v Speaker 1>And then lastly, invasive species are a real problem.

1:00:44.520 --> 1:00:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Kudzuo that was the other one I want to do.

1:00:46.120 --> 1:00:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Oh, you want to do one on kudsy heck, yeah.

1:00:48.600 --> 1:00:52.800
<v Speaker 1>So kudzu is a great example of an invasive species.

1:00:52.800 --> 1:00:56.640
<v Speaker 1>It's a non native, fast growing vine that in I

1:00:56.640 --> 1:00:59.800
<v Speaker 1>think it's native Japan, has plenty of natural predators that

1:00:59.880 --> 1:01:03.640
<v Speaker 1>like to eat it. Sure, right here in the United States,

1:01:03.640 --> 1:01:06.320
<v Speaker 1>in the Southeastern United States, where it was given as

1:01:06.360 --> 1:01:10.440
<v Speaker 1>a gift by Japanese businessmen in the thirties. It doesn't

1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:13.240
<v Speaker 1>have any natural predators, and it just grows like crazy.

1:01:13.320 --> 1:01:15.840
<v Speaker 1>And the problem is it grows up and over trees

1:01:15.880 --> 1:01:19.520
<v Speaker 1>and creates its own It uses the tree structure and

1:01:19.560 --> 1:01:22.520
<v Speaker 1>then creates its own canopy around it. It basically creates

1:01:22.600 --> 1:01:28.440
<v Speaker 1>a dice in sphere around a tree to but it's

1:01:28.480 --> 1:01:31.240
<v Speaker 1>a reverse dice in sphere. It's accepting the sun from

1:01:31.240 --> 1:01:33.560
<v Speaker 1>the outside rather than harvesting it from the inside.

1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Tree death is what it means.

1:01:35.520 --> 1:01:37.520
<v Speaker 1>I know, don't you hate seeing that? Like I'd just

1:01:37.560 --> 1:01:40.160
<v Speaker 1>like shake my fist at kuts you, like, get off

1:01:40.160 --> 1:01:43.400
<v Speaker 1>of that tree, just stay on the ground.

1:01:43.560 --> 1:01:44.960
<v Speaker 2>But do you ever take time to go out there

1:01:45.000 --> 1:01:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and with your scissors Josh, yes, and cut it off

1:01:47.600 --> 1:01:48.120
<v Speaker 2>that tree?

1:01:48.240 --> 1:01:49.000
<v Speaker 1>Very frequently.

1:01:50.880 --> 1:01:53.880
<v Speaker 2>Mile a minute weed is another good example, apparently another

1:01:53.960 --> 1:01:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Asian import that has choked the Mid Atlantic region.

1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:01.360
<v Speaker 1>I guess the lesson here is this, an Asian business

1:02:01.360 --> 1:02:05.480
<v Speaker 1>person ever gives you a non native plant as a gift,

1:02:05.600 --> 1:02:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Smile politely, say thank you very much.

1:02:07.720 --> 1:02:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

1:02:08.000 --> 1:02:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Also don't make eye contact, all right, say thank you

1:02:10.840 --> 1:02:12.600
<v Speaker 1>very much, But I cannot accept this gift.

1:02:12.880 --> 1:02:14.959
<v Speaker 2>But would you like to go have a lovely sushi meal.

1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Nice, you got anything else?

1:02:17.960 --> 1:02:18.720
<v Speaker 2>I got nothing else?

1:02:18.920 --> 1:02:21.720
<v Speaker 1>So that is timber. If you want go, type that

1:02:21.760 --> 1:02:24.880
<v Speaker 1>word into the search bar at houstuffworks dot com. And

1:02:24.960 --> 1:02:27.360
<v Speaker 1>since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail.

1:02:29.640 --> 1:02:33.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna call this coolest tattoo I've seen in a while. Hey, guys,

1:02:33.280 --> 1:02:37.240
<v Speaker 2>listen to Satanic Panic today. And I loved it. I

1:02:37.360 --> 1:02:38.600
<v Speaker 2>loved that episode, by the way.

1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:39.200
<v Speaker 1>It was good one.

1:02:39.280 --> 1:02:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we gotten some good feedback. Jerry's even nodding, and

1:02:42.000 --> 1:02:43.080
<v Speaker 2>she hates most of what we do.

1:02:43.360 --> 1:02:45.520
<v Speaker 1>She's not even aware of most of what we did.

1:02:46.200 --> 1:02:48.120
<v Speaker 2>She was born in nineteen eighty two, this writer, and

1:02:48.160 --> 1:02:51.320
<v Speaker 2>she says, I remember family members talking about parts of

1:02:51.360 --> 1:02:54.880
<v Speaker 2>our home state of Kentucky that were lousy with Satan worshippers.

1:02:55.280 --> 1:02:56.680
<v Speaker 2>One of the things I like best in the episode

1:02:56.760 --> 1:02:59.320
<v Speaker 2>was when we talked about the influence works of fiction

1:02:59.400 --> 1:03:02.200
<v Speaker 2>had on superstition. Made me think of how I've encountered

1:03:02.200 --> 1:03:03.880
<v Speaker 2>this in my own life. I have a great love

1:03:03.960 --> 1:03:06.840
<v Speaker 2>of wija boards. And in fact, I don't think she's

1:03:06.880 --> 1:03:09.400
<v Speaker 2>heard the episode on wijiaboards because she didn't reference it.

1:03:09.520 --> 1:03:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that was a good episode.

1:03:10.680 --> 1:03:12.560
<v Speaker 2>So Carrie, we did an episode on that. You should

1:03:12.600 --> 1:03:15.040
<v Speaker 2>listen to it. I think they are pretty and have

1:03:15.320 --> 1:03:17.720
<v Speaker 2>I have great memories of playing with one as a kid.

1:03:18.000 --> 1:03:22.040
<v Speaker 2>I have quite a few at home, including I have

1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:24.800
<v Speaker 2>quite a few wija aboard items, including a tattoo on

1:03:24.840 --> 1:03:28.160
<v Speaker 2>my chest, and she attached to photo. She's got like

1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:32.920
<v Speaker 2>the upper lettering of the wija board, like right across,

1:03:33.360 --> 1:03:36.640
<v Speaker 2>like under her neckline, at the top of her chest. Yeah,

1:03:36.720 --> 1:03:41.520
<v Speaker 2>it's like when she wears like a dress with that exposed.

1:03:42.000 --> 1:03:44.840
<v Speaker 2>It's just lovely looking, like that font and everything.

1:03:44.960 --> 1:03:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:46.560
<v Speaker 2>I saw the photo and I thought it was really

1:03:46.560 --> 1:03:49.640
<v Speaker 2>cool looking. But of course she's people are gonna say, like,

1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:53.080
<v Speaker 2>what's up with this girl had boards? This has led

1:03:53.080 --> 1:03:55.920
<v Speaker 2>to some very interesting conversations, of course, with people. A

1:03:55.960 --> 1:03:58.439
<v Speaker 2>lot of people really like it, like me, but some

1:03:58.560 --> 1:04:00.920
<v Speaker 2>have been a little freaked out by it. Thanks to

1:04:00.960 --> 1:04:04.800
<v Speaker 2>movies like The Exorcist and more recently Ouija, the wija

1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:06.360
<v Speaker 2>board has been given a lot more power, and I

1:04:06.360 --> 1:04:08.760
<v Speaker 2>feel that it really deserves I've had my tattoo for

1:04:08.760 --> 1:04:11.400
<v Speaker 2>over a year and have not noticed any paranormal activity

1:04:11.440 --> 1:04:14.360
<v Speaker 2>surrounding me, and I've not been possessed, and I have

1:04:14.440 --> 1:04:16.840
<v Speaker 2>not had a demon use my chest as a doorway

1:04:16.840 --> 1:04:19.400
<v Speaker 2>to our world, so I think I will be Okay,

1:04:20.000 --> 1:04:22.520
<v Speaker 2>we'll see. Keep up the great work that is from

1:04:22.600 --> 1:04:30.480
<v Speaker 2>Carrie parentheses like the movie.

1:04:27.920 --> 1:04:30.200
<v Speaker 1>A lot of horror movie references in that.

1:04:30.480 --> 1:04:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I thought it was a very cool tattoo.

1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Nice man, Well Carrie, right, that's right, Okay, thanks a lot,

1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:40.360
<v Speaker 1>Kerrie for writing in. And if you want to write

1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:42.680
<v Speaker 1>to us, you can send us an email to Stuff

1:04:42.720 --> 1:04:45.480
<v Speaker 1>podcast the Housetufforse dot com and has always joined us

1:04:45.480 --> 1:04:50.560
<v Speaker 1>at our home on the web, stuff Youshould Know dot com.

1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:52.959
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1:04:53.440 --> 1:04:56.640
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1:04:56.840 --> 1:05:04.440
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