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Speaker 1: Hi, folks.

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Speaker 2: Chuck here on a Saturday morning for me, maybe Saturday afternoon.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he's not Saturday at all in your world. Who knows.

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Speaker 2: But we release these curated selects on Saturday. And here's

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Speaker 2: my pick for this week from January twenty first, twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Timber How Timber Works. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,

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Speaker 2: a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there, post nasal drip

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Speaker 1: some sort, and that makes this stuff you should know.

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Speaker 2: It makes this room the infection zone.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Jerry, are you sick?

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Speaker 2: No, she's not sick. Are you no?

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Speaker 1: Good, she's just snotty. That's fine as long as she's

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Speaker 1: not sick. Are you sick? No?

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Speaker 2: Man?

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Speaker 1: How are you feeling? Great? Good? Good?

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Speaker 2: Tired?

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Speaker 1: Are you well?

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Speaker 2: You're a dad?

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Speaker 1: All dads are tired, aren't they? No, it has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with it. Oh yeah, no, why are you tired?

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Speaker 2: Just uh, didn't get enough sleep last night?

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Speaker 1: Okay, but not because dad stuff. Okay, we'll leave it

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Speaker 1: at that.

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Speaker 2: That's set for building a wall.

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Speaker 1: Let's back away from that question, shall we instead, chuck,

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Speaker 1: take my hand, and let's wander off into the forest.

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Speaker 2: Uh, this was pretty neat. I gotta say. I was

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Speaker 2: excited about this because A it's a dense.

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Speaker 1: Like a forest.

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Speaker 2: B it's cool like a forest, and C it provides

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Speaker 2: a great canopy over our heads.

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Speaker 1: It does a canopy of knowledge. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I reverse engineered that last one.

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Speaker 1: Oh you did?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Man, he is on a roll.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna get a few. We're gonna get some stuff

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Speaker 2: wrong on this one.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that's correct.

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Speaker 2: I feel like any can we tackle something that's in

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Speaker 2: any industry like this, The people in the industry are

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Speaker 2: going to have way better current information than we will.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's funny because I picked up on

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Speaker 1: the same thing, not just with the industry, but also

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Speaker 1: with the battle over Yeah, forestry rights.

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Speaker 2: This is a minefield, my friend.

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Speaker 1: It really is, because this article was written a number

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Speaker 1: of years back and is very friendly to the forestry industry. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not like extraordinarily conservation minded as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I had to drop a bombshell.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think I had a slant. I saw

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Speaker 2: it as pretty neutral.

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Speaker 1: I don't know man like.

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Speaker 2: But here's how confused I was. And we'll get to

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Speaker 2: this later. But these initiatives and certification programs, so we'll

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Speaker 2: get to later. I didn't know like which one I

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Speaker 2: should like and not like. At the end, I can

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Speaker 2: tell you, well, save it, okay, all right, because I

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Speaker 2: need somebody to tell me what the like and not like, I.

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Speaker 1: Can tell you just save it, all right, I'm saving it.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about forests in general, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, let's talk about our country a little.

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Speaker 1: Bit, in the United States.

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Speaker 2: Well, even more, let's talk about our continent.

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Speaker 1: Okay, North America.

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Speaker 2: That's right. When settlers came over here, there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of trees. There were a lot of trees.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember in our pigeon episode, like the idea

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Speaker 1: that there were so many what was it passenger pigeons

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Speaker 1: that died off that were just driven to extinction because

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Speaker 1: of humans. I'm pretty sure his passenger.

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Speaker 2: Remember I got confused in the episode about which.

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Speaker 1: It was a very confusing thing. And they think that

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Speaker 1: ultimately the pigeons had been managed by Native Americans who

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Speaker 1: were wiped out by disease, so that when the first

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Speaker 1: Europeans really came along, they saw tons of pigeons places

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Speaker 1: over Rham with pigeons because there was no one there

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Speaker 1: to hunt anymore. Right, Yeah, same thing with the forest.

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Speaker 1: They think there was so much forest cover that it

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Speaker 1: was because the Native Americans who had managed the forest

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Speaker 1: before had all died off or largely died off, and

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Speaker 1: then what we thought was just this crazy stretch of

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Speaker 1: forest that had always been there was actually fairly new.

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Speaker 1: But it's probably not the case.

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Speaker 2: Well at any rate. Way back in the sixteen hundreds,

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Speaker 2: about forty percent of land north of Mexico was trees.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not too bad. No, that's a lot of trees.

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Speaker 2: And trees are great because they give us wood. I

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Speaker 2: mean they led to you know, pre metal, it was

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Speaker 2: all about wood, Yeah, you know, ships, buildings, houses, wagons.

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Speaker 1: William Harris wh wrote this article. Yeah, he makes the

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Speaker 1: very smart point that we came and cut down trees

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Speaker 1: and basically built a new nation. Yeah, certainly a new economy,

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Speaker 1: subtle new nations out of wood, definitely, for sure, like

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Speaker 1: literally out of wood.

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Speaker 2: If you're talking the world and Planet Earth, about thirty

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Speaker 2: percent is forest land, and Russian and Brazil lead the

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Speaker 2: way because they have huge tracts of land.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but as a continent, actually Europe is the most.

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Speaker 1: They have the most forest of any kind of the

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Speaker 1: most dense. I believe that they have one thousand and

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Speaker 1: one million, which is a little over a billion hectares

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Speaker 1: hectares point four acres, right, sure, the total number of

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Speaker 1: acreage if you're in the US of forest land throughout

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Speaker 1: the world one point five eight billion acres of forests.

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Speaker 2: Is that the most broad definition of a forest that

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Speaker 2: includes everything.

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Speaker 1: And that's in the US. No, no, no, that's the

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Speaker 1: world one point five eight billions in the.

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Speaker 2: World, gotcha. Yeah, Because in the US, if you talk

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Speaker 2: to a forester, they will say, everyone thinks that you

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Speaker 2: see a bunch of trees and that's a forest. But

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Speaker 2: they would narrow down that definition to at least one

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Speaker 2: acre of land which has at least ten percent tree cover.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty that's a good definition for a forest.

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Speaker 1: I'm on board with that.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you're talking that definition, then the US has

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Speaker 2: about seven hundred and fifty million acres seven sixty six

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Speaker 2: In Canada, yep, and that's that's forest.

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Speaker 1: My friend. Boom, we're done. Yeah, it was a minefield,

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Speaker 1: but we navigated.

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Speaker 2: But this is about timber and that's different than forest.

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Speaker 1: It is different than forrest. So a forest is that

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Speaker 1: definition that you just said. It's an acre of land

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Speaker 1: with ten percent tree cover?

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Speaker 2: Right, yep.

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Speaker 1: Timberland is a type of forest land, but it has

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Speaker 1: to have a certain amount of usable trees on it

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Speaker 1: or timber, yeah, to make it timberland. Rightes.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in a forest actually, now that I

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Speaker 2: think about it, Oh yeah, by that definition.

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Speaker 1: Nice. What was it called.

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Speaker 2: It's called Chuckshause Chuck's House forest. Yeah, I mean it was.

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Speaker 2: I think we had We had like an acre and

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Speaker 2: a half and most of it was.

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Speaker 1: Trees, so more than ten percent. Oh yeah, easy. So

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Speaker 1: you had a dense forest. It was pretty dense. That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Did you learn to climb trees out there?

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Speaker 2: No? But I used to get poked fun at because

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Speaker 2: it didn't grow up in a neighborhood like most kids.

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Speaker 2: It was just a street with like six houses in

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Speaker 2: the forest.

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Speaker 1: Who would make fun of you for that?

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Speaker 2: What were they saying, Well, you know, it's cool to

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Speaker 2: grow up in a neighborhood when in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: Hey man, I grew up in a neighborhood in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't that great.

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Speaker 2: I was jealous, man, because everyone else would sneak out

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Speaker 2: at night then go to their friend's house and there

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Speaker 2: were swimming pools and tennis courts and in the centers,

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Speaker 2: and it was just like me and my brother in woods.

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Speaker 2: But I guess I got older and everyone was like, dude,

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Speaker 2: your house is awesome. You live out in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the woods.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, plus you were lucky to have your brother

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Speaker 1: to hang out with. He's a great guy. True. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good point. So you know I had a door that

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Speaker 1: led out to the back porch. Yeah, I was growing up.

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Speaker 1: It's like, there's no sneaking out. It just opened the

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Speaker 1: door and went out for my room. There.

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Speaker 2: You're just like, go ahead, coming, go as you please.

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Speaker 1: No, I wasn't supposed to. But it wasn't a lot

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Speaker 1: of sneaking involved. It was opening the door and quietly

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Speaker 1: closing it.

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Speaker 2: You didn't have to always wanted to shimmy up a

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Speaker 2: drain pipe to my room.

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Speaker 1: Have you shimmying up or down downs a lot easier.

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Speaker 2: Than I could have shimmeyed when I was ten or twelve, though,

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Speaker 2: ain't no shimmy in anymore.

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Speaker 1: So people have sent in that guide Posts cover. Is

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Speaker 1: that you No, okay, it's just some other playing the trumpet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I never played the trumpet. I never was blue

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Speaker 2: block or sunglasses.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't look like you, but I was like.

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Speaker 2: No, and it may not have been a four piece picture,

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Speaker 2: but I think it was.

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Speaker 1: Someone will find it, I hope. So okay, so let's

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Speaker 1: get back to timberland. Yes, timberland is a forest that's

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Speaker 1: capable of growing something like twenty cubic feet of commercial

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Speaker 1: wood per acre per year. That's right, that's it.

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Speaker 2: And people estimate two thirds of our nation is forest

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Speaker 2: land and five hundred and two million acres of that

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Speaker 2: is timberland.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not bad, not bad at all. No. So

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Speaker 1: the key here though is, and this is where the

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Speaker 1: big debate comes up. We're not going to get into

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Speaker 1: it necessarily now, but the key is that, yes, you

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Speaker 1: can have a forest that is capable of growing twenty

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Speaker 1: cubic feet of commercial grade lumber timber a year, but

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Speaker 1: you also wanted to be able to regrow sustainable harvesting, right,

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Speaker 1: So what you're after is what's called the net annual increase.

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Speaker 1: This article calls it a net annual gain. That's wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's a net annual increase, which means that the amount

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Speaker 1: of stuff you're growing in a given year is more

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Speaker 1: than what you're harvesting. Difference between a gain and an increase.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying the industry term.

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Speaker 2: Oh gotcha.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I looked up net industry gain or yeah, net

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Speaker 1: annual gain.

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Speaker 2: And they said you must be a city folk.

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Speaker 1: Right, idiots, its increase. So the you just basically it's

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Speaker 1: pretty simple. You just want to take less trees than

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Speaker 1: you're growing in a particular year, or that you have

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Speaker 1: than you have in reserve.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And actually the United States has been in an annual

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Speaker 1: gain for decades now. Yeah, it's a real concern. It's

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Speaker 1: a cause for worry that we over over harvest trees.

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Speaker 1: Well we used to man that we DeForest, but if

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Speaker 1: you look at the historical data, yeah, we are growing

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Speaker 1: more trees than we're taking every year. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think the stat was since the nineteen since nineteen twenty,

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Speaker 2: we haven't made anything worse, right, and apparently and since

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Speaker 2: the fifties we've gotten way better.

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Speaker 1: I think though four times seventies were like kind of bad,

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Speaker 1: but I think that was like the transition decade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what This made me really appreciate we're early conservationists.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because post Civil War and during pre Civil War

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Speaker 2: even people just sort of took what they wanted and

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Speaker 2: did what they wanted with the land. There wasn't a

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Speaker 2: lot of foresight, and so early conservationists were really fighting

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Speaker 2: an uphill battle back then.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 2: So I just have a lot of respect for them.

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Speaker 2: I to say, you know what, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: this is smart, what's gonna happen in one hundred years.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I know, you need your log cabin, Jebediah.

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Speaker 1: What's mind boggling to me is that the debate still

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Speaker 1: goes on. Yeah, that's true, you know, but not even

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Speaker 1: just with timber, with like climate in general, climate change

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Speaker 1: things like that.

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Speaker 2: Agreed. All right, So if you're a scientist, you're gonna

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Speaker 2: classify forests usually by what kind of trees are there.

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Speaker 2: For instance, a tropical rainforest you're gonna have broad leaf evergreens,

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Speaker 2: a boreal forest you're gonna have a needle leaf evergreens.

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Speaker 1: Then there's a temperate forest, which is like what we

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Speaker 1: have here in the southeast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the US are five major regions, Pacific Coast

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Speaker 2: Rocky Mountain North South, and I love it. Alaska has

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Speaker 2: its own region, yes, just because it's it deserves.

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Speaker 1: It, and there's a lot of trees up there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, there's been a little little bit of

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Speaker 1: a scandal recently as far as Alaska and trees go.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, big Is that a tease? It's a teas.

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Speaker 2: But we're gonna consider a couple of regions here, and

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Speaker 2: we're gonna mainly be talking about the United States because

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Speaker 2: that's where we live.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but there are trees everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can apply this to a lot of places.

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Speaker 2: But east of the Old Mississippi is the hardwood region

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Speaker 2: and west is softwood. And if you're talking hardwood, gums, maples, oaks, walnut,

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Speaker 2: very hardwood walnut.

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Speaker 1: Mahogany is mahogany in there? Actually, now I think about

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Speaker 1: it, I think mahogany is a tropical rainforest tree.

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: I'm an idiot, all right, No, you're not. That's what

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Speaker 1: I get for coming up with something on my own.

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Speaker 2: Soft woods. You're talking pine, spruce, hemlock, douglas fir, redwoods.

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Speaker 2: Those are soft woods. Sure, And we're just getting started.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of information coming your way.

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Speaker 1: Should we take a break here?

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Speaker 2: Should we?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It sounded like you were working up

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Speaker 1: toward that.

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Speaker 2: That was a break he set up, wasn't it. All right,

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Speaker 2: let's take a break. We'll come back and we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about why wood is good. All right. Wood is good

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Speaker 2: because you can use it for lots of stuff, which

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't realize this that we've been using it

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Speaker 1: for a very long time, at least one and a

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Speaker 1: half million years.

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Speaker 2: Right, starting with fire and like clubs and yeah.

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Speaker 1: Did you realize that we'd harnessed fire that many years ago?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I ever really thought about it.

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Speaker 1: It has a long time for people to be building

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Speaker 1: fires a million and a half years ago. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: completely reshaped my ideas of hominids from one point five

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Speaker 1: million years ago.

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Speaker 2: What did you think about them before?

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Speaker 1: Not that they could create fire.

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Speaker 2: They're a bunch of cold dopes.

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Speaker 1: A little bit maybe that they just kind of may

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Speaker 1: do with what came their way rather than actually making fire.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we should do a podcast on the origins of fire.

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Speaker 2: We did do one on fire, Yeah, but I don't

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Speaker 2: think we covered like the first fires did.

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Speaker 1: We or did we? Probably not? Yeah, I think I've

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Speaker 1: since seen Quest for Fire, which we've talked about. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: good movie.

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Speaker 2: I kind of want to talk about my favorite part,

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Speaker 2: but this is a family podcast, so I won't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's pretty brutal in a lot of ways, isn't it. Yeah?

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Speaker 2: All right, So why is wood good? Like I said,

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Speaker 2: you can make stuff out of it. Another big thing

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Speaker 2: is carbon sequestration, which is why you hear a lot

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Speaker 2: of people battling clearcutting for us because carbon sequestrations great.

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Speaker 2: It traps carbon, so the build up of CO two

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Speaker 2: is reduced.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. As a matter of fact, trees account for seventy

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Speaker 1: percent of the organic carbon locked in the earth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why that canopy is important.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: They also provide habitats for all our animals and birds

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Speaker 2: and insects and all the plants and good things that

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Speaker 2: we love, and the hydrologic cycle. So a forest will

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Speaker 2: help soak up rainfall and filter the water as it

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Speaker 2: becomes groundwater, all very important stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you like drinking water, you can thank trees

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Speaker 1: for helping keep the soil in tip top shape to

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Speaker 1: filter out all that nasty stuff. Yeah. So yes, forests

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Speaker 1: are extraordinarily important, right, what is good? But you also

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Speaker 1: can make pretty good use of it too, Like if

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Speaker 1: you're a clever primate like we humans are, you cannot

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Speaker 1: only use it for fire, which a lot of people

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Speaker 1: still do around the world. Firewood is still a huge

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Speaker 1: use of wood of timber around the world.

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Speaker 2: Nothing beats a natural wood fire in a fireplace in

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Speaker 2: your home.

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Speaker 1: No, it's true, you know. But do you remember when

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Speaker 1: we were when we shot those Toyota, those Toyota videos

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Speaker 1: that Carnegie mellon. Oh yeah, And one of the innovation

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Speaker 1: things was like a filter, like an easy, cheap, portable

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Speaker 1: filter for cooking fires. Yeah, indoor cooking fires. I remember

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Speaker 1: that because that was a big problem people were like

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Speaker 1: making using wood fires to cook with, but they were

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Speaker 1: doing it indoors and like suffering all sorts of lung problems.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that still happens in you know, non industrialized nations. Yes,

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Speaker 2: is that what we call things?

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Speaker 1: It's the it says, it's the prime it's the primary

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Speaker 1: fuel for cooking and heating and developing countries, right, non

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Speaker 1: industrialized I think that's even better.

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Speaker 2: All right. So here in the USO and in a

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Speaker 2: lot of countries, these days, only seven percent of timber

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Speaker 2: is used for I guess heating and cooking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a big push against even that seven percent too. Really,

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Speaker 1: it's just such a I agree with you. I love

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Speaker 1: that Firefire's nice, but it's wasteful. Yes, okay, Well I

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Speaker 1: don't have a working fireplace, so.

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Speaker 2: I just like them.

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Speaker 1: You just like the idea of it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I want one, but I have one of those old,

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Speaker 2: you know houses from the nineteen thirties that it's expensive

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Speaker 2: to get it retrofitted.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever gotten an estimate on it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I need chimney work. I need a bigger firebox.

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Speaker 2: They said something like eight or ten grand. The guy

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Speaker 2: like tried to talk me out of it. Yeah, the dude,

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Speaker 2: I was like, you don't want to make money. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Like I want a fire and you're like, oh no,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty expensive. I would like, all right, it's wasteful.

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Speaker 2: Uh So seven percent goes toward that lumber, which we'll

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Speaker 2: get to in a minute, is about fifty three percent

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Speaker 2: in the US September.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and most of that goes to new house construction.

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Speaker 2: It turns out, oh really that makes sense. Pulp and

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Speaker 2: paper are thirty two percent and then composits like plywood

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Speaker 2: and veneer the other seven. Right, although I think we're

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Speaker 2: missing one percentage point, aren't we?

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Speaker 1: Or are we? Mmmm?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder what that is. It's the mystery percent,

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Speaker 1: the mystery percent. God knows what they're doing to that

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Speaker 1: one percent of wood.

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Speaker 2: All right, So I said the word lumber, and lumber

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Speaker 2: isn't just cut wood.

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Speaker 1: No, just like timberland isn't just forest. Yeah, no, forest

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Speaker 1: isn't just timberland. Right.

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Speaker 2: Lumber is actually a specific thing. It is wood that

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Speaker 2: is squared or rectangular. So when you go to the

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Speaker 2: hardware store and you see all the two by fours

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Speaker 2: and two by six's and all that stuff, that is

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Speaker 2: lumber because it's a square.

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Speaker 1: If you point to a post, a round post and

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Speaker 1: go give me three of the lumbers.

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Speaker 2: We'll say, boy, where'd you come from?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're wrong in a couple of points here, So

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Speaker 1: that's called roundwood. Actually, yeah, that doesn't that's not included

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Speaker 1: in lumber.

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Speaker 2: That's a little nitpicky. If you're outside the industry, I think.

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Speaker 1: Say, I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: But if someone points that out and then I don't know,

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Speaker 2: punch them in the face with the two by four.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's not that's not lumber. That's around what Remember

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Speaker 1: hacksaw Jim Duggan. Didn't he attack people with the two

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Speaker 1: by four and the WWF.

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Speaker 2: I didn't watch a ton of wrestling.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he had like a two by four.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. It's violent.

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Speaker 2: Construction. It's about a fifty to fifty split with lumber

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Speaker 2: in the US, about half goes to construction and about

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Speaker 2: half goes to palettes, crates and furniture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, I didn't know it would be

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Speaker 1: that high. I read an extraordinarily interesting article on the

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Speaker 1: pallette trade. Oh, I'm sure it's there's like a whole

401
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Speaker 1: cartel controlling pallettes that people rebel against, and there's like

402
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Speaker 1: pallette thieves and counterfeitters and yeah, it like just it's

403
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Speaker 1: a really interesting art. I'll see if I can find it.

404
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: I'll post it in the podcast page for this.

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Speaker 2: Well, pallettes, you can. You can make a lot of

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Speaker 2: cool things out of pallettes. And a lot of people

407
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Speaker 2: are finding out their uses, so they think you can

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Speaker 2: just go behind the grocery store and take them.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: So now a lot of places have big signs that

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Speaker 2: are like do not take these palettes.

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Speaker 1: No, especially if they're blue, Like, that's stealing. If they're

413
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Speaker 1: blue palettes, yeah, you can get the place where you

414
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Speaker 1: stole them from sued.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the saying. If the palette is blue, it's

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Speaker 2: not for.

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Speaker 1: You because you'll get sued. That's right.

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Speaker 2: Furniture, If you make furniture, you're gonna like hardwood like

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Speaker 2: oak and maple, because it's durable and it has that

420
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Speaker 2: lovely grain in mahogany that we all love so much.

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Speaker 1: Right, but softwood is no slouch either.

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Speaker 2: No, But palettes are used in hardwood too because it's sturdy, right,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, softwood's a different deal.

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Speaker 1: No. And they usually use softwood for construction lumber too, yea,

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Speaker 1: because it contains fewer knots and things like that. And

426
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Speaker 1: actually softwood is used chuck more for construction lumber because

427
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Speaker 1: you can make it long and straight, which is that's

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Speaker 1: how you want your construction lumber, long and straight. Nobody

429
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Speaker 1: wants like kind of a topsy turvy house. Yeah, maybe

430
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Speaker 1: a crazy person, but most people don't. They want straight

431
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Speaker 1: plumb houses.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, although it's tough if you've ever done a home

433
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Speaker 2: reno project to find straight lumber these days, is that right? Yeah,

434
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Speaker 2: you go in there and they all seem like they're

435
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Speaker 2: warped and bent. And if you're yeah, and if you're

436
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Speaker 2: a amateur like me, it doesn't help you out any

437
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: if your lumber's not straight. No, you want straight lumbers, Like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to make up for that. Like

439
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Speaker 2: my buddy Isaac in Kansas help me do my house, right.

440
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Speaker 2: He would go pick out stuff and I would say

441
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 2: this is curved. He'd be like, I can account for that, huh,

442
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 2: But I can't.

443
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: He's got like a special organ in his brain.

444
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called smarts, construction carpentry smarts.

445
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's lumber, right. Yeah. You can also make

446
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: paper out of wood. Yeah, this might be the fact

447
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: of the podcast. Are you ready for this? Yeah, paper

448
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 1: is made out of wood.

449
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: Oh? I thought you had something else? No, you got me.

450
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: Have we done one on paper before? Because this seemed

451
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: awfully familiar?

452
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 2: No, But I will say this touched off like five

453
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 2: different topics that we should cover.

454
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 1: Okay, paper being one of them, all right, the originifier paper?

455
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, what else? Deforestation okay, in earnest, Yeah, we're gonna

456
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 2: touch on it. But and then there's a couple more,

457
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 2: I think. Okay, pornography just kidding. So let's talk about

458
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: the cellular structure of wood because it's very important.

459
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,719
Speaker 1: Well, especially when you're talking about paper. Yeah, like that

460
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: was not just a non sequitter, it actually makes sense exactly.

461
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: So trees, yeah, like everything else, are made of cells, correct,

462
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: That's right. And when you take enough of these cells

463
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: and stack them together, you can create something as strong

464
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: and tall and rigid as a tree. Yeah, but it

465
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: takes a certain kind of cell to make a tree.

466
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, the cells. If you think of the walls

467
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: of the cell, they make the tree strong. And there

468
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 2: are a couple of chemicals that make up these walls,

469
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 2: cellulose and lignan. And cellulose is flexible and bindy, and

470
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: lignan says no, no, I'm your glue. Cellulose. I'm going

471
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 2: to keep you more rigid because I don't want you

472
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: to bend. So they work together, yeah, to make Whether

473
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: cellulos likes it or not, Yeah, I always wondered about that.

474
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: It has to go along with it.

475
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: It's like I wanted to bend. Ligdan get out of

476
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: my face, right.

477
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: Ligan is like no, no coloring outside the lines.

478
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 2: So if you separate those things, which we've been doing

479
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 2: for a long time now, you can get those cellulos

480
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 2: fibers and actually make something called pulp which will eventually

481
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 2: make paper.

482
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: Right, and you can form it into a mat press

483
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: and dry it and bleach it and turn it into paper.

484
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: Like you said, you can also make other stuff too,

485
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: technically fiber board, you know, the stuff that they use

486
00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: to put on the backs of dressers and things these days. Crud, Yeah,

487
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: that's actually made from paper pulp.

488
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

489
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 1: Da.

490
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: If you're at another hardware store and some guy that

491
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: works there, lady says, what you want to use is MDF.

492
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 2: What's the medium density fiberboard? Okay, And that way they

493
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: won't think you're city folk. All you can say, yeah, MDF,

494
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: sure totally, and then they'll know your city folk.

495
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: I'll be like, give me three of those mds. Uh.

496
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 2: And then you have hardboard, and that's even stronger than fiberboard.

497
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: Uh.

498
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: And it's just I think it's harder because it's pressed

499
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: together with so much pressure. It's more dense.

500
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. Fiberboard is pulp and glue pressed the pressed together

501
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: hardboard is the same thing, but pressed together, like you said,

502
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: under pressure and then completely different. Actually, although it does

503
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: seem like it would bear a pretty striking resemblance. Is

504
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: particle board.

505
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, these are composites. Plywood and particle board are

506
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: both composites, right, but they are different. The difference between

507
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: MDF and particle board is MDF is well, particle board

508
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: is cheaper and it's made out of sawdust, whereas the

509
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 2: MDF is made of an actual fiber.

510
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: Right out of pulp. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah,

511
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: Like Chuck, you realize that stuff you should know has

512
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: hit such a stride, but we're talking about particle board.

513
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: It just hit me.

514
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: Plywood is when you take If you look at plywood

515
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: and on the side of it, you'll see that it's

516
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: a lot of little veneers pressed together.

517
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what they're called. Yeah, veneers veneers. Plywood's great,

518
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: but if you really want something that's just as tough,

519
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: just as durable, but cheaper, you're going to go for

520
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: the oriented strand board OSB baby, which is basically like

521
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: plywood made out of particle board.

522
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's all but replaced plywood in construction these days,

523
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: home construction because it's cheaper, it is stronger and more durable,

524
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: and I was wondering why it was stronger, and it's

525
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: because it comes from it's right there in the name.

526
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: It's oriented. The specific orientation of the wood strands makes

527
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: it stronger.

528
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so.

529
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: It's not just haphazardly tossed together and pressed. I guess

530
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: by God, specifically oriented invented nineteen sixty three.

531
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 1: And man, yeah, in California, I think. Actually nice.

532
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so your OSB, if you go into your hardware

533
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 2: store and they'll say you either want MDF or OSB, say,

534
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: I know what I'm talking about, So don't try and

535
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: don't try and trick me.

536
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: Right, I didn't just fall off of the turnip.

537
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: Truck of the lumber truck. All right, where are we now?

538
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: Are we harvesting it? Yeah?

539
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: So to get to this point, to get to all

540
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,479
Speaker 1: this wonderful products of lumber, timber. Sorry, man, I have

541
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble not confusing lumber with tim That's right.

542
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: Lumber is timber. Timber is not necessarily lumber, right, That's

543
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: what I was taught as a young boy. So when

544
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: you harvest timber, there's a couple of approaches, right, and well,

545
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: there's several approaches but they really fall under two umbrellas.

546
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: One is that take everything to hell with ecology approach

547
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: called clearcutting. Yes, that is all these trees can make

548
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: some money. Ergo, I'm going to cut down all these trees.

549
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Typically over five acres is a clear cut. Yes,

550
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: anything under that it is called a patch cut. Okay,

551
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: although people disagree on that definition too.

552
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: But the suggestion is that under five acres an area

553
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 1: that small could recover being effectively clear cut.

554
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 2: I'm not sure it has to do with recovery.

555
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: Oh, it has to do with the amount of money made.

556
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not sure.

557
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: All right. Well, with clear cutting, you just go in

558
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: and you cut down everything. It's it's pretty straightforward.

559
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: Really.

560
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: It takes slightly more thought to you come up with

561
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: a good what's called a silver culture approach. Silver culture

562
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: takes into account the idea that you want that area

563
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: that you cut down to grow back to renew so

564
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: that again you hit that annual increase rather than decrease,

565
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: to where the amount of trees you have in stock

566
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: or growing in a particular year is actually more than

567
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: the amount of trees you harvest that same year. Right

568
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: to do that, you have to be selective. You have

569
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: to be smart in the number, amount and type of

570
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: trees you cut down during any given tree cut.

571
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, with clear cutting, when you hear that, you would

572
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: just think like, why would anyone argue that that's a

573
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: good idea?

574
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: But people do.

575
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: It's very controversial. If you're in the timber timber industry, yeah,

576
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: forestry industry, forestry industry, you can say you will think

577
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: in good confidence that you can say that clear cutting

578
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: is fine if you do it the right way.

579
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't get that.

580
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they said that there are seven conditions that if

581
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: you meet them then it's actually better. That sounds like,

582
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: do you want me to read them?

583
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: Seven conditions I do.

584
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 2: When regenerating tree species that need full sunlight to stimulate

585
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: seed sprouting and seedling growth. When dealing with sparse or exposed,

586
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: shallow rooted trees that are in danger being damaged by wind,

587
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: when trying to produce an even age stand, and a

588
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: stand I found as a group of trees that are

589
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: the same species, age, and condition that you can manage

590
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: as a unit. That's a stand of trees. Okay, when

591
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: regenerating stands of tree species that are dependent on wind

592
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: blown seed root suckers or cones that need fire to

593
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: drop seed, when faced with salvaging overmature stands or stands

594
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: killed by insects, disease, or fire, when converting to another

595
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: tree species by planting or seeding, and finally to provide

596
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: habitat for wildlfe species that our edge new ground and

597
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,239
Speaker 2: high density even age stands. I couldn't make sense out

598
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: of anything.

599
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: Well, one of it really stuck out to me, and

600
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: it was that for when you're cutting down an entire

601
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: area that's been hit by pests or disease, that one

602
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: makes sense to me, especially if you're trying to contain

603
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: an epidemic. Yeah, sure, clear cut, that makes sense. Everything else,

604
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there were some there's some logic to it.

605
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: At least it's not just total madness.

606
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Opponents to clear cutting will say it increases soil erosion,

607
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: water degradation, increases silt and streams and rivers. Aesthetics is

608
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: the main reason that most people are opposed to it,

609
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: or that many people are sure is that it just

610
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: looks like a wasteland.

611
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: Right. Well, the problem is also with clear cutting, it

612
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: sets the stage for invasive species of say like fast

613
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: growing weeds to overcome seedlings, and it keeps the forest

614
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: from regenerating. Yeah, So therefore clearcutting most people, I guess,

615
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: except for the people who came up with those seven conditions,

616
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: tend to believe that it's an unsustainable method of harvesting timber.

617
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: Right. A more sustainable method is shelter wood cutting.

618
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: That's a type of silvic culture.

619
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's when they use partial cuttings over time.

620
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: We're talking over ten or twenty years, only two to

621
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: four harvests where things can naturally regenerate during that timeframe.

622
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: Right. That sounds like a good idea. It is. There's

623
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: also seed tree seed tree harvesting, and then selection harvesting,

624
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: which is where you basically go in and say this tree,

625
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: that tree, that tree.

626
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that are more marketable. But opponents or proponents of

627
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: clearcutting say that's worse. I don't know why, though.

628
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: I can see I can see what they're saying. I mean, like,

629
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: think about it, like your artificially selecting. Yeah, yeah, and

630
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: you're disrupting the balance or the ecology of the forest

631
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: by saying just these great oaks leave all these other

632
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: crummy elms. But the thing is is you're also affecting

633
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: the ecology by cutting down everything the ecosystem.

634
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: I would like to hear from someone that really knows

635
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: their stuff, that is a proponent of clear cutting to

636
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: explain it better to me.

637
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: Yeah than the internet did. Please do? So you do

638
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: when you do use any kind of silver cultural technique,

639
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: and you're not just clearcutting, you have to go through

640
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: the forest and figure out what trees you're going to

641
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: take a lot of times, and even with clear cutting,

642
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: they will leave trees that are say six inches in

643
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: diameter or less in size they're too young. It's like

644
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: how you leave fawns when you're deer hunting. Yeah, it's

645
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: the exact same thing.

646
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: I love the name of that process when determining and

647
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 2: surveying the land to work it all out, It's called cruising.

648
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: Cruise the forest, right, everybody you know drives around the forest. Yeah,

649
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: the pack of cigarettes rolled up in their shirt sleeves.

650
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: Next comes felling, and I got confused with tree felling

651
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: in the correct way. So I put a little post

652
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: on Facebook, and I had a guy named Gabriel Fribley

653
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: who worked as a forest service fire and fuel management dude,

654
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: and he said, I've cut hundreds, if not thousands, of trees.

655
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: So you want to hear what he says, Yeah, because

656
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: we would screw it up.

657
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: I guarantee it.

658
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: Okay, are you about to say that you know better

659
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: than this guy.

660
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: I don't know better than this guy, but this this

661
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: article was definitely wrong from everything I found.

662
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly why I asked, he said. Terminology changes

663
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: depending on where you are and who you're talking to.

664
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 2: There are a number of different ways to do so,

665
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: but the safest and most common is to cut a

666
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: wedge out of a tree measure about a third of

667
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: the diameter. Measuring about a third of the diameter of

668
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: the tree in the direction you want the tree to fall.

669
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: Then you that's where I would just stop.

670
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, my brain just shut down.

671
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you. Cutting this wedge will require two cuts,

672
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: a flat cut and then a sloping cut that meets

673
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: the flat cut and freeze the wedge. The combination of

674
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: these two cuts is commonly called the face cut.

675
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So then that is on the side of the

676
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: tree in the direction it's gonna fall. Correct, And it's

677
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: like a triangle. Yes, with one The bottom cut is

678
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: ninety degrees, the top cut is forty five degrees I think, so, okay.

679
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 2: The wedge acts as a hinge, so the tree falls

680
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: in a safe, controlled manner. Then there is the third cut,

681
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: most commonly called the back cut, which is a straight

682
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: cut in the opposite side of the tree, about halfway

683
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: through the diameter of the tree, maybe a little more.

684
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: And that's about two inches above the bottom cut on

685
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: the other side. Okay from what I saw.

686
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: And he said, ideally you want to leave twenty percent

687
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: of the diameter of the tree intact between the back

688
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 2: cut and the wedge. And that's called holding wood. And

689
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: I think he said hold what is just what it

690
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: sounds like. It holds a tree together to make like

691
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: it's not coming down on your head. Basically, it holds

692
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: it together till you're ready. And he said, if you've

693
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: done these two correctly, three actually you should be able

694
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: to simply push the tree over with your hands. Wow,

695
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: or drive a wedge into the back to bring the

696
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: tree down.

697
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 1: I'll bet that's pretty awesome to push a huge tree

698
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: down with your hands.

699
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: And yell timber.

700
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

701
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: So thank you to Gabriel Gabriel Fribley. Yeah, thanks Gabriel,

702
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 2: and for firefighting forest fires.

703
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty neat. Or starting them, Oh come on, No,

704
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: the Forestry Service does control burns.

705
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I thought you meant like, because there have

706
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 2: been cases where they've found arson and it was actually

707
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 2: a fireman.

708
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: Or his mother a firefighter. Do you remember that. No,

709
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: there was a dude who was a wildfire firefighter who

710
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: was not getting enough work.

711
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: I think that's what I was thinking. Was it the mom?

712
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: The mom went and said a fire so that her

713
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: son could make some money.

714
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: God bless her. Not really, but you know the mom

715
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: that just wants to take care of business first onn right,

716
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 2: that's nice.

717
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: So, Chuck, you've gone through. You cut a bunch of trees.

718
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: Yep.

719
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: The first thing the loggers do is they hop all

720
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: over the trees and go h pip pip, and they

721
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: cut all the limbs off.

722
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: Yes, right, it's called bucking yep.

723
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 1: And then once you've got the tree bucked, you cut

724
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: it into huge logs yep, from top to bottom. And

725
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: then you tie the logs up or you chain them

726
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: to a tractor, and you skid them along a skidding

727
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: trail to what's called the landing area.

728
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: All right, and they pre plan these skidding trails. Yeah,

729
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: this is very important, not just willy nilly, because they

730
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 2: are trying to protect the forest at the same time.

731
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if you have a bunch of tractors driving

732
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: out with lots and lots of heavy logs, heavy heavy

733
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: logs attached to them, you're going to compact the soil.

734
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: Like this was a tree ten minutes ago, right now

735
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: it's a log.

736
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: Yes, huge, And so if you're going to compact some

737
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: area of soil, you might as well just compact the

738
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: same area soil rather than a bunch of areas of soil,

739
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 1: so that the rest of the forest can stay healthy.

740
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: And when you get to the landing area, these logs

741
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: are going to be basically graded and sorted, and some

742
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: of them are either going to be sent straight to

743
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: the pulp mills to be created into paper, right or

744
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: fiberboard or something like that, and then others may be

745
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: sent in the higher grade stuff will probably be sent

746
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: to sawmills or concentration yards, which are basically the second

747
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: stage of these landing areas where these people say we're

748
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: going to put all these this specific species of trees

749
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: over here, because this one sawmill likes only oaks, so

750
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: we're going to send them their oaks, So either the

751
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: landing area goes directly a sawmill or there's that extra

752
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: step of the concentration yard in there.

753
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if this sounds dangerous, yeah it is. And

754
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: depending on what year you're looking at, logging is either

755
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 2: the one or two, aside from commercial fishing, most dangerous

756
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 2: job in the United States at least.

757
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: Either way, you can find documentary television shows about these

758
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: professions on Discovery Channel. That's right, check your local list.

759
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 2: And other channels. This past year, I think it was

760
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: commercial fishing. Airline pilot was number three.

761
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: I find that very unnerving.

762
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, that's what I thought. It's like I

763
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 2: thought planes didn't crash much.

764
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: What's up with that?

765
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

766
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: Well, in my fear of flying just came back.

767
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: Farmers and ranchers are four, in case you're wondering, mining

768
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 2: machine operator, then roofers sanitation collectors, which I thought was interesting.

769
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: Are you sure it's not like military jet pilot.

770
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: Dude, soldier wasn't even listed.

771
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: In the top ten an airline pilot.

772
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: But like I said, I think they go by deaths

773
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: in that previous year. I don't care, so it probably

774
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,240
Speaker 2: depends on if we're at war or you know.

775
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 1: Okay, but airline pilot was still in there, it was dude.

776
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: And then truckers and industrial machinists.

777
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: Especially ice road truckers probably yeah, for real, I'm sure

778
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: among truckers that they probably have the higher mortality rate.

779
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: Well, you were shilling for Discovery.

780
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: I think that was on History.

781
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 2: Oh okay, you're shilling more for Discovery now than when

782
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 2: they owned us, which is weird.

783
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: It is weird.

784
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: What do you think podcaster is?

785
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,959
Speaker 1: Podcaster? Pretty? Yeah, cushy, unless apparently you're on a commercial airline.

786
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: Like a one to ten million chants of death. Yes,

787
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 2: if you're a podcaster.

788
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: On the job death, you know, we could figure that

789
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: out if we knew what math was.

790
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: I don't I could. I'm trying to think if, like

791
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 2: how we would die from doing this flying somewhere to

792
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 2: do a live podcast.

793
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: Probably right, I would say if somebody locked the door

794
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: and Jerry started a fire in here, right then we

795
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 1: could probably die.

796
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 2: From Actually, in our case, it would if Jerry finally

797
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: snaps and just murders us both.

798
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think we could defend Jerry off.

799
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: So Chuck once the stuff hits the saw mill, we'll

800
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: go there. We already kind of hit the pulp mill. Yeah,

801
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: which stink. By the way, one of the foulst smells

802
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: on earth.

803
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: Are those like the can I just say eggfart?

804
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: No way worse than that.

805
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,479
Speaker 2: Oh I thought it was like that real sulfury smell.

806
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: Now that's well watered down in Florida. Okay, this is

807
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: like it's its own smell. All right, you've surely smelled

808
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: it before.

809
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: You ever been to a chicken farm?

810
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: That's okay, you're right, that's not funny. That might be

811
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: the worst smell of all. Didn't you used to work

812
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: on chicken farms doing software or something?

813
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, not on farms, Oh okay, but other people in

814
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: our company would go to the farms and like teach

815
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: them how to use the software.

816
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: It smells so bad, Which is.

817
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 2: Imagine that job going teaching these people that have been

818
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: like literally counting chicken heads for their entire life, teach

819
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 2: them how to use the computer to do it. Yeah,

820
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: they were not receptive many times.

821
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: Talk about hunting and pecking. Yeah, there's a lot of

822
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: honey in pecking. So at the at the sawmill, right, Yeah,

823
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: when you're cutting up. Well, when you're when you get

824
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: a bunch of logs, you're like, these are some good logs. Yeah,

825
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: but I can't do much with this bark. It can

826
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: use mulch that kind of thing. Sure, And actually bark,

827
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: I didn't realize this bark represents basically one of two

828
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: organs of the tree. Yes, there's actually three.

829
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: Should we talk about the inside of a tree a

830
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: little bit?

831
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought this was interesting.

832
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.

833
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: So the bark is the folham, it's the sugar conducting cells,

834
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: flow them, flow them, and and basically it just provides energy.

835
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: It transfers energy throughout the tree.

836
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the internal piping. Part of it is

837
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: the flow them.

838
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's that one Bugs Bunny song. It makes

839
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: like you know that Bugs Bunny assembly line song. I

840
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: remember the totally powerhouse something.

841
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

842
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the sound that that makes if you

843
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: listen very carefully in a forest. True.

844
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: Uh, there's another set of internal piping the tissue called

845
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 2: the xylum, and they carry The xylum carries the water

846
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 2: up and down the tree, right, And they are well

847
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 2: suited to do so because they are like pipes.

848
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: They are shaped like piping, right, So the fulham flow them.

849
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: That's bark. Yeah, the xylum that's the wood inside, and

850
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: in between the two, you have a thin layer that's

851
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: basically stem cells. It's called the cambium, and the cambium

852
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: produces flow them and xylum cells, and it produces xylum

853
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: cells inward. Right. Yeah, So the stuff, the part of

854
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: the tree that's closest to the bark is also the youngest.

855
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, the heartwood.

856
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: No, that's in center deep. Yeah, that's the sapwood. Further inside,

857
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: deeper into the tree, that's the older xylum, and that's

858
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: the heartwood. It's just the oldest part of the tree. Yes,

859
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: and you when the log gets to the saw, they're

860
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: going to basically separate those two things because there's different

861
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: uses for sapwood and for heartwood. But the first thing

862
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: they're going to do is get rid of the bark.

863
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. They put it in a debarking drum and it's

864
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: kind of like a nightclub. It just kind of everything

865
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 2: rubs together.

866
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. They put several different logs in and let the

867
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: logs rub their own bark off of one another.

868
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, they put on little music.

869
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: It's pretty horrific. Ma, Like you're a tree.

870
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, you have a naked tree.

871
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: Right, you know, strip the skin right off of it.

872
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: And that bark can become a mulch and what else, oh, fuel, fuel.

873
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: Pretty much it okay, decorative mulch and fuel. But once

874
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: you've got that naked log, you're all set. So you

875
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: want to cut the sapwood from the heartwood because the

876
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: heartwood is extraordinarily strong, and you use it for posts

877
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: and timbers and beams and things like that that you

878
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: really are going to put a lot of weight on. Yeah,

879
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: flooring sometimes right sometimes. And actually there's another article I

880
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: read once about this, like this commercial diving company down

881
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: in like central Florida, that their whole job was they

882
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: would go down in the swamp and like raise old

883
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: cypress logs from the nineteenth century. They have just been

884
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: down there since then, and they sell them as like

885
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: reclaimed original like heart of cypress for flooring. People pay

886
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: mind boggling amounts for because this log was felled, you know,

887
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 1: one hundred something years ago and it just sank. It

888
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: happened to be one of the ones that sank, and

889
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: they couldn't do anything with it. Back then, there were

890
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: so many cypress trees that they just didn't even bother

891
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: with those. So now these guys go down and dive

892
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: and identify them and raise them up and then sell them.

893
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: That junk is heavy.

894
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And actually that perfect time to mention my buddy

895
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: Jason from Damn Caster Guitars. He built me a custom

896
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: Telecaster replica and they use old wood from a dam

897
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 2: in Georgia that had been underwater for like one hundred years.

898
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: That's really cool.

899
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 2: And this thing is it's the heaviest guitar. It's beautiful,

900
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: but it's tough.

901
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: On my back. Is it worth it though? Yeah?

902
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 2: Man, it's I mean, it's gorgeous. And the wood they

903
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: get is really just heavy and dense and gorgeous wood.

904
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 2: And they got this big load of it from a

905
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 2: dam that they tore down and I think Columbus, Georgia.

906
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: And so they've got all this wood now that they're

907
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 2: making these sweet guitars out of.

908
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: Would you name your guitar? I haven't named it. I

909
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: don't really name my guitars, although he wanted me to. Yeah,

910
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: you gotta name your guitar.

911
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 2: I got four guitars. There are one through four.

912
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: No, you should name one. Joni and one Chachi at

913
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: least all right, and one I always keep them right

914
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: next to each other.

915
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: And one Phonsie and one Ralph Mouth. Now who was

916
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: Phonsie's Leather Tuscadero.

917
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Pinky tusca Era. Well they're sisters, So was Pinky

918
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: the younger sister.

919
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 2: I think Leather was the one that looked like Joon

920
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: Jet and Pinky is the one that looked like a

921
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: bombshell like had the you know, the pink sweaters and

922
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: the big poofy hair.

923
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: So which one did he date?

924
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 2: I think he dated Pinky. Okay, Leather, she she didn't

925
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 2: need guys.

926
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: She was. I think I remember who you're talking about.

927
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: I don't remember Pinky tusky Air. I definitely remember Leather

928
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: tusky Era. Man whoever wrote that show was.

929
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 2: A genius, right, Yeah, Well, what they're doing is they're

930
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: satisfying everyone. They're like, you like the ladies rough and Tumble.

931
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 2: You like them dressed up in pink with like poofy hair.

932
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: Right? Do you like them with an Italian name? Right? Uh?

933
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: Where are we have we debarked.

934
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 1: Or in like thefties Milwaukee?

935
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: Right?

936
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: Yes, we have debarked to answer your question.

937
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 2: Okay, So we've debarked. You got a naked log. If

938
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: it's going to be paper, it's going to go to

939
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: a chipper which cuts the log into little little squares

940
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 2: about two inches by a quarter of an inch thick,

941
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 2: and they're going to mix those chips up with chemicals

942
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 2: and stuff. They're going to put it in a digest.

943
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: It's a big pressure cooker and that is what separates

944
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 2: that cellulose from the lignan that we talked about earlier.

945
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: To get your pulp.

946
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to get that lignan out of there. Yeah.

947
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 2: And it's wet, it's fibrous. They bleach it to the

948
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: proper shade, mix it with water again, form it into

949
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 2: big mats, and then press them under these incredible rollers

950
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 2: to press out all that water. Right, and then there

951
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: you go. You've got what will be paper.

952
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 1: Right. And if you're making lumber, you send your log

953
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: to the scooby doo head rig is what it's called.

954
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, those things are awesome, the thing.

955
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: That people are always tied on going toward. Oh yeah,

956
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: sort of, and it just cuts the log in half,

957
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: or it cuts the edges off and maybe like just

958
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: cuts out the heart. It sort of roughs it out right,

959
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: and then you have a couple of other types of saws.

960
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: There's a trimmer that squares the ends, and before that

961
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: you have an edger which creates the well the edges

962
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: for your lumber. Yeah, and then of course there's a

963
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: whole other process involved in making roundwood aka posts, which

964
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: are not lumber.

965
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 2: Evidently, your heartwood is going to be older, obviously, because

966
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 2: you know how you can tell a tree by the rings,

967
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 2: those inner rings that we talked about the xylum.

968
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: Right, and it's the cambium is creating more xylum cells.

969
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: They're going on the outside of the heartwood. Yeah, the

970
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 1: tree is growing outward.

971
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: And there's gonna be more knots in that heartwood too,

972
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: which is so branches past it's sturdier.

973
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: But a lot of people would also be like, I

974
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: don't want to see knots, so they're not going to

975
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: use it.

976
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,240
Speaker 2: For or I do want to see knots, Yeah, depending

977
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 2: on what you're doing. Sickos like a good knot in

978
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,760
Speaker 2: the right place. For instance, my guitar has a beautiful

979
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 2: knot in the center of the back that's just gorgeous. Jony,

980
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 2: now that I would call this one pinky Tuscadero.

981
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: I think, okay, so that's pinky tuscad Era leather.

982
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I actually looked up not so I was like, wait,

983
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: what is a nott, not even thinking well, of course

984
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: it's just a former branch. Oh.

985
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that either.

986
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's either a branch base or a branch bud

987
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 2: that never happened.

988
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: Huh. Do you know? Not only did I not think

989
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 1: that that's what it not was, I didn't even think

990
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: to think what it not was.

991
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, And the last part of that process

992
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 2: is you got to dry the stuff out. So you

993
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 2: stack it up, sorted out, and you dry it in

994
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: a kiln.

995
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah, all right, it's like you made something out

996
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: of clay.

997
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: Should we take a break?

998
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a break, man, and then we'll take

999
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: it home. So, Chuck, you kind of mentioned like early

1000
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: conservation folks that you or in.

1001
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: Awe of John Muir, Teddy Roosevelt. Yeah, John Muir was cool, weirdo.

1002
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and these people they reacted to this rampant deforestation

1003
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: that was going on, Like there was a significant amount

1004
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: of logging that happened between the seventeenth century and the

1005
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century.

1006
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, up to thirty percent of the original forest land

1007
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 2: by the end of the Civil War was gone.

1008
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're talking about a billion acres that was

1009
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: originally there, So thirty percent of that gone, right, unbelievable.

1010
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 1: And there was what was called ay they were worried

1011
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: that there was going to be a quote national famine

1012
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: of wood. Yeah, and it wasn't just conservation at the time,

1013
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: like plastics had not been developed. Sure, cheap easy metal

1014
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,720
Speaker 1: alloys weren't developed until say the mid twentieth century, right, Yeah,

1015
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: so we like there was Yeah, we really used wood

1016
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah, and for also for fuel, for cooking,

1017
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: for heating, all that stuff. We needed wood. So it

1018
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: was going to be a big deal if we ran

1019
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: out of wood. And as a result, a lot of

1020
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: people got behind these conservation efforts, and especially the government

1021
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 1: here in the United States. All government levels own forest land,

1022
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 1: but for the most part, the federal government owns the most. Yes,

1023
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: And they don't just protect it and say this is

1024
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: off limits. They say, you guys can come and pay

1025
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: for the right to cut down some trees from here,

1026
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: but you're going to follow our rules.

1027
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, three hundred and twenty three million acres of federally

1028
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: owned land in this country is public forest land. Yeah,

1029
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: so either like national forest or I guess, to be

1030
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: used by the logging industry if you meet the right conditions, I.

1031
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: Guess, yeah. But I think even national forests fall under

1032
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 1: that umbrellas well.

1033
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't mean, yeah, that they were not the same.

1034
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: What does happen sometimes is say an animal will be

1035
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: placed an animal that calls forest land or timberland and

1036
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: its home will be placed on the endangered list, and

1037
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: as a result of that, the forest industry will just

1038
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 1: completely shift. And that was the case with the Mexican

1039
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 1: spotted owl in the nineties.

1040
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, what happened to that guy?

1041
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: So the Mexican spotted owl was on its way to

1042
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: becoming extinct, and it made its home in the western

1043
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: softwood temperate forests, right, and the US government decided that

1044
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: this was enough of a problem that they put it

1045
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: on the endangered species list and protected it. And that

1046
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: meant that its habitat was protected, which meant that all

1047
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: of this public land that all these logging companies used

1048
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: to go and log on, they couldn't log there anymore.

1049
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: A lot of page did not like that decision. No,

1050
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: they didn't. It was enormous. And you know that a

1051
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: federal agency is doing its job when it's being sued

1052
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: by conservationists and logging companies, right, yeah, at the same

1053
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: time over the same thing. Sure, so or else they're

1054
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: not doing their job at all, depending on how you

1055
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 1: look at it. But eventually the Mexican spotted owl was protected,

1056
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: its habitat was protected, and so the forestry, the timber

1057
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: industry shifted eastward. Yeah, And so there was a shift

1058
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: not just in direction on the continent, but also in

1059
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: where they were taking timber from. So now more timber

1060
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: is taken from privately held lands in the East than

1061
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 1: public held lands in the West because of the Mexican

1062
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: Because of this one type of owl, right completely changed

1063
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: the complexion of the timber industry in the United States.

1064
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: But the timber industry is doing just fine. Yeah, you know,

1065
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a real testimony that like it

1066
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 1: can adapt. Yeah, you know, the Mexican spotted owl can adapt,

1067
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: but the timber industry can. Apparently.

1068
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 2: You ever see owls in Atlanta?

1069
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have before. Why They're amazing.

1070
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: I love owls, gorgeous in that wingspan, it's like it's

1071
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,720
Speaker 2: remarkable when you see one fly. Yes, it's like whoa

1072
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: that looks that's bigger than most birds.

1073
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you ever had one like perch outside of

1074
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: your window while you're trying to sleep?

1075
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I've got We have one that lives behind

1076
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 2: our house.

1077
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: Does he keep you up?

1078
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 2: No, we've seen it a couple of times and we

1079
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 2: hear it a lot, which I love.

1080
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: It didn't like wake me up or anything. Oh, we

1081
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: had one that was keeping us awake.

1082
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: Really you shoot it?

1083
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: No?

1084
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 2: No?

1085
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: Nice went out and shine a flashlight in this general direction. Yeah,

1086
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: and it piped down. Never heard from it again. Oh wow,

1087
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: So you got the message, gotcha? And we were oul

1088
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: lists after that.

1089
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 2: He's like that guy with the flashlight. He's bad news.

1090
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: All getting out of here, all right? So the federal

1091
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 2: government owns a lot of land which is managed managed,

1092
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: managed by some different bodies, but it's you know, they

1093
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: try to do their best job with things like the

1094
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 2: Healthy Forest Restoration Act, signed in two two thousand and

1095
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:57,439
Speaker 2: three by GW. Bush all right to help protect forest land.

1096
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: So chuck, it's about here though that Like this is

1097
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,760
Speaker 1: when I was like, I feel like we're really wading

1098
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: into un explained territory a dark forest. Yeah, there's a

1099
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 1: lot of like I suspect a lot of green washing

1100
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:14,280
Speaker 1: going on, and so I started poking around, and I've

1101
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 1: found that the Sustainable Forestry Initiative is very frequently accused

1102
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: of greenwashing. Yeah, so you know how like fair trade,

1103
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: Like you'll look for a fair trade label and you'll

1104
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: be like, I'm gonna pay a little more for this

1105
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: because I believe that the people who made it were

1106
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: paid a better wage than you know, this competitor that

1107
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: wasn't fair trade. That's what the Sustainable Forestry Initiative Seal

1108
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: of approval was meant for. That you could look for

1109
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: it on like a ream of paper or something and say, oh, well,

1110
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: this thing was this paper was harvested using say, shelter

1111
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: cutting techniques. There's some sort of silver cultural techniques that

1112
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: promotes sustainable forestry. The thing is is there's some other groups,

1113
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: say like forest Ethic is a nonprofit kind of watch

1114
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: dog group that has come out and really aggressively said

1115
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: that the Sustainable Forestry Initiative is basically just a greenwashing

1116
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: front operationally that's funded by paper companies. It was international paper,

1117
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: International paper. Yeah, there are a couple of others that

1118
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: I think Weyerhauser was one maybe that that fund this

1119
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: this approval company or organization. So is it BS From

1120
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 1: what I can tell, really it looks that way, and yeah,

1121
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's very disconcerting. Fortunately, there are some that

1122
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: do appear to be utterly legitimate, and the chief among

1123
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: them is the Forest Stewardship Council. Okay, they do the

1124
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 1: same thing, but they're the real deal.

1125
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 2: So this article you sent me that there are a

1126
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 2: lot of major brands dumping the s FI. I saw

1127
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 2: that and I was like, well, that's terrible, but they're

1128
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 2: moving to the better standard. Is that correct?

1129
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: That's the impression I have. Okay, that makes sense now, Yeah,

1130
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: rather than bearing the SFI seal of approval, like or

1131
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: buying paper that bears that seal of approval, because it's

1132
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: not even necessarily the paper companies that are doing this

1133
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: because they're the ones funding the s FI. It's like

1134
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: Office Depot is no longer buying s FI sourced paper.

1135
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: I'm guessing they're probably going with the f SC, the

1136
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: Forest Stewardship Council.

1137
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 2: So Hewlett Packard at and T Pitney Bowls all state,

1138
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 2: they buy a lot of paper, shouting them out right

1139
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 2: because they're doing the right thing. It sounds like, yeah,

1140
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 2: that makes more sense. I was confused. I thought they

1141
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: were dropping the SFI, which was a good thing. But

1142
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: the ye, this is all clear.

1143
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: Now rank you Hey, don't thank me. Thank forest ethics,

1144
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: who apparently routinely get seased in desist letters from paper

1145
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: companies in the forests, or the I'm sure Sustainable Forestry Initiative,

1146
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: and then chuck. The Forest Service itself is often criticized

1147
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: for being in bed with the timber industry. I'm sure

1148
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: that Alaska thing I was teasing earlier, Yeah, yeah, what

1149
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: is it? There is something called the Big Thorn Timber Sale.

1150
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: Six thousand acres sixty two hundred acres of seven hundred

1151
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: year old forest in the Tongas in southern Alaska up

1152
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: for sale for clear cutting. Wow, clear cutting. And the

1153
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: problem is is like old growth forest, Yes it is.

1154
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. The problem is is not just that

1155
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: people are worried that the forest won't recover, but that

1156
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: this forest is also used by other industries like fishing industry,

1157
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: tourism industry. These people are like, we're using this acreage

1158
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: can't just come in and cut it down. Here's a

1159
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: couple of lawsuits to stop that sale, and I guess

1160
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: the federal judge in twenty fifteen, I think March ruled, Nope,

1161
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: go ahead, you're well within your rights. Maybe disgusting, but

1162
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: go ahead and sell sixty two hundred acres of old

1163
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: growth forest in Alaska for clear cutting.

1164
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: With the presumption that it will go to a logging company. Yes,

1165
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 2: you'd be great as if like, oh, I don't know,

1166
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 2: Warren Buffett bought it and said I'm going to build

1167
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 2: a small house in the middle of it, and that's it.

1168
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: That guy should wear a cape. So deforestation is a thing,

1169
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: and I agree with you. We should definitely do an

1170
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: episode just on that, right. Yeah, but that's not the

1171
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: only threat to the forests of the world.

1172
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 2: Now.

1173
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: It is a serious threat, but man made threats are

1174
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: not the only threat.

1175
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 2: No, there's a few more natural threats. Insects, of course,

1176
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: specifically invasive species like the Eurasian gypsy moth came here

1177
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 2: in the nineteenth century and when it's a caterpillar, it

1178
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 2: eats the leaves of hardwood trees, like a lot of them,

1179
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: to the tune of since nineteen thirty defoliated more than

1180
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 2: eighty million acres. That is so many East Coast forest Yeah,

1181
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:05,439
Speaker 2: eighty million acres just on the East coast.

1182
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: This little caterpillar.

1183
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeap, So that's an insect disease is a problem. I

1184
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 2: know here in Georgia we've sudden oak death is a

1185
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 2: big problem.

1186
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1187
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 2: And since it was originated in nineteen or I guess

1188
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 2: found in nineteen fifty five, ninety covered.

1189
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: What I say, fifty five, oh, a full forty years after.

1190
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 2: That ninety five. Yeah, I remember when this happened. It

1191
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 2: was probably Clinton's fault. It was Clinton's fault. Since then,

1192
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 2: has killed more than one million oak trees.

1193
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's no gypsy moth, but that's a lot now.

1194
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: And then lastly, invasive species are a real problem.

1195
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 2: Kudzuo that was the other one I want to do.

1196
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, you want to do one on kudsy heck, yeah.

1197
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: So kudzu is a great example of an invasive species.

1198
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: It's a non native, fast growing vine that in I

1199
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: think it's native Japan, has plenty of natural predators that

1200
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: like to eat it. Sure, right here in the United States,

1201
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: in the Southeastern United States, where it was given as

1202
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: a gift by Japanese businessmen in the thirties. It doesn't

1203
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 1: have any natural predators, and it just grows like crazy.

1204
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: And the problem is it grows up and over trees

1205
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: and creates its own It uses the tree structure and

1206
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: then creates its own canopy around it. It basically creates

1207
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: a dice in sphere around a tree to but it's

1208
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: a reverse dice in sphere. It's accepting the sun from

1209
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: the outside rather than harvesting it from the inside.

1210
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 2: Tree death is what it means.

1211
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: I know, don't you hate seeing that? Like I'd just

1212
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 1: like shake my fist at kuts you, like, get off

1213
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: of that tree, just stay on the ground.

1214
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 2: But do you ever take time to go out there

1215
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 2: and with your scissors Josh, yes, and cut it off

1216
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 2: that tree?

1217
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 1: Very frequently.

1218
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: Mile a minute weed is another good example, apparently another

1219
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 2: Asian import that has choked the Mid Atlantic region.

1220
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: I guess the lesson here is this, an Asian business

1221
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: person ever gives you a non native plant as a gift,

1222
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 1: Smile politely, say thank you very much.

1223
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: Huh.

1224
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: Also don't make eye contact, all right, say thank you

1225
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: very much, But I cannot accept this gift.

1226
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:14,959
Speaker 2: But would you like to go have a lovely sushi meal.

1227
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: Nice, you got anything else?

1228
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: I got nothing else?

1229
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: So that is timber. If you want go, type that

1230
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: word into the search bar at houstuffworks dot com. And

1231
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail.

1232
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call this coolest tattoo I've seen in a while. Hey, guys,

1233
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 2: listen to Satanic Panic today. And I loved it. I

1234
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 2: loved that episode, by the way.

1235
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: It was good one.

1236
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we gotten some good feedback. Jerry's even nodding, and

1237
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 2: she hates most of what we do.

1238
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: She's not even aware of most of what we did.

1239
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: She was born in nineteen eighty two, this writer, and

1240
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 2: she says, I remember family members talking about parts of

1241
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: our home state of Kentucky that were lousy with Satan worshippers.

1242
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: One of the things I like best in the episode

1243
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 2: was when we talked about the influence works of fiction

1244
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: had on superstition. Made me think of how I've encountered

1245
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 2: this in my own life. I have a great love

1246
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 2: of wija boards. And in fact, I don't think she's

1247
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 2: heard the episode on wijiaboards because she didn't reference it.

1248
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: Oh, that was a good episode.

1249
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: So Carrie, we did an episode on that. You should

1250
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 2: listen to it. I think they are pretty and have

1251
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 2: I have great memories of playing with one as a kid.

1252
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: I have quite a few at home, including I have

1253
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 2: quite a few wija aboard items, including a tattoo on

1254
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 2: my chest, and she attached to photo. She's got like

1255
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 2: the upper lettering of the wija board, like right across,

1256
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 2: like under her neckline, at the top of her chest. Yeah,

1257
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 2: it's like when she wears like a dress with that exposed.

1258
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 2: It's just lovely looking, like that font and everything.

1259
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1260
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 2: I saw the photo and I thought it was really

1261
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 2: cool looking. But of course she's people are gonna say, like,

1262
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 2: what's up with this girl had boards? This has led

1263
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 2: to some very interesting conversations, of course, with people. A

1264
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,439
Speaker 2: lot of people really like it, like me, but some

1265
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 2: have been a little freaked out by it. Thanks to

1266
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 2: movies like The Exorcist and more recently Ouija, the wija

1267
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 2: board has been given a lot more power, and I

1268
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 2: feel that it really deserves I've had my tattoo for

1269
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 2: over a year and have not noticed any paranormal activity

1270
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 2: surrounding me, and I've not been possessed, and I have

1271
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 2: not had a demon use my chest as a doorway

1272
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 2: to our world, so I think I will be Okay,

1273
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 2: we'll see. Keep up the great work that is from

1274
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 2: Carrie parentheses like the movie.

1275
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: A lot of horror movie references in that.

1276
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was a very cool tattoo.

1277
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 1: Nice man, Well Carrie, right, that's right, Okay, thanks a lot,

1278
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: Kerrie for writing in. And if you want to write

1279
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: to us, you can send us an email to Stuff

1280
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: podcast the Housetufforse dot com and has always joined us

1281
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 1: at our home on the web, stuff Youshould Know dot com.

1282
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:52,959
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1283
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1284
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.