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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything. Okay, we're gonna we're gonna do this

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Speaker 1: an unorthodox fashion, and we're gonna start with intros. I

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Speaker 1: feel like the day we were talking and never it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter, um as though, dealing cards with introductions, and

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Speaker 1: then we've got like a bunch of housekeeping issues and

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Speaker 1: I need to ask Michelle some questions. I need to

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Speaker 1: get the female perspective on two things. Is that cool, Michelle, Ny,

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Speaker 1: you can introduce yourself. Good morning, I'm be honest for

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Speaker 1: tell us from the Meat Eater crew. Good morning, I'm

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Speaker 1: Sam Longering from the Meat Eater, joining us for the

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Speaker 1: first time the first day in the office, excited to

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Speaker 1: be here. Get your email hooked up? Yet I do,

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Speaker 1: I do, and it's already full. So I really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: that brief twenty minutes before I had any sort of inbox.

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Speaker 1: It was glorious. Yeah, because there's no responsibilities yet. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got like things and I have work you have

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Speaker 1: to do, right, Yeah. I finished my last job Friday

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Speaker 1: at five, So you do like most people, game it,

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Speaker 1: so you get two weeks off? Yeah, well I gave you.

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Speaker 1: I gave my last employer a month and a half notice,

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Speaker 1: so I figured I better hustle on over here once

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Speaker 1: I got done with that. That speaks well to your

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Speaker 1: work ethic. Man. Oh thanks, I appreciate that. The Michelle

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Speaker 1: Michelle Michelle Chandler from the Meat Eater Crew formally Michelle

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Speaker 1: Jorgensen say, who's Michelle? Right? So you did the old switch? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I did the switch? Yeah? Can you real quick why?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm all for it, man, but as you know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've complained about many times. My wife won't do it.

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Speaker 1: She's mean, it's I think my perspective on it's a

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Speaker 1: little old fashioned, but I kind of consider it. I

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Speaker 1: think he's a great and and he's an honorable man,

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Speaker 1: and I'm proud to take his name and yeah, and

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Speaker 1: to be a part of his family. So I look

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Speaker 1: at it in that, in that perspective of validation of yeah, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: So I'm really on board with it. My wife just

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Speaker 1: thinks it's annoying to go change all your stuff around.

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Speaker 1: It's not easy. They don't make it easy, you know,

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Speaker 1: first stop Social Security and every other agency after that

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Speaker 1: kind of yeah, passport, Yeah, we did that the other day.

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Speaker 1: For a long time, she's screwed with me by saying

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Speaker 1: that when her passport expired, she would do it, and

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Speaker 1: she made this so one of her many emails has

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Speaker 1: uses my last name as like a little nod in

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Speaker 1: my direction. But no, she's not. I'm an honorablewler. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what. Well, yeah, viewpoint of it, Sean. I

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Speaker 1: am Sean Gearty, and I'm a founder and managing director

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Speaker 1: at American Perry Reserve. Right, Ryan Callahan, it's my second

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Speaker 1: Monday here. As far as the Mediator crew, you're doing good.

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Speaker 1: We get a lot of emails about you already. I

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Speaker 1: mean we have always have gotten a lot of emails

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Speaker 1: about you. But we get emails about you people curious.

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Speaker 1: Do you have categories? No, No, just a lot of

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Speaker 1: emails about you. People like here here you talk and

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Speaker 1: you want to know more, um, real quick. Ye, honestly,

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Speaker 1: you were wrong about some stuff. Uh, dudes rolled in.

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Speaker 1: You were talking about if you were to hire a

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Speaker 1: if you were to hire a dude to pack out

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Speaker 1: your elk, you were ballparking it like a horseman a packer. No,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't me bambarking it? Who ballparked it? Ed? He

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Speaker 1: ballparked it. Yeah, well he was off by a factor

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Speaker 1: of a couple hundred. Yeah. I thought he was on

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Speaker 1: the light end even then when we're having the discussion.

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Speaker 1: Felt it. At the time. I was shouting out at

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Speaker 1: the radio and I was listening to I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's a steel dude. A lot of people rolle in

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Speaker 1: there like five hundred seven fifty, probably more like someone

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Speaker 1: was throwing around two fifty depends on he get. Man.

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Speaker 1: It's like Janice calls me and he's got this picture

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Speaker 1: of this giant bowl on Instagram'd be like, you know what, man,

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Speaker 1: this one's on me, send me the coordinates. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you're not a you're not a packer for hire. You're

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Speaker 1: just a dude guy. A lot of packers for higher

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Speaker 1: also have a hunting license in their pocket. Oh, meaning

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Speaker 1: like I would love to come up and give a hand. Yes, No,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't agree at all, because

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Speaker 1: there there's no guesswork. It's like, so this is where

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Speaker 1: he was. I feel like pro packers are tight lipped. No,

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Speaker 1: they're working. You've made that decision, you're working man during

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Speaker 1: hunting season. If I was a pro packer and all

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Speaker 1: I did was go up and visit places where people

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Speaker 1: have had successful hunts, and then a buddy of mine said, hey, man, um,

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Speaker 1: think about heading out this weekend. You got any What

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Speaker 1: would you do if you were me and I was

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Speaker 1: the pro packer? Would I then say, oh, you know what,

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Speaker 1: you know where I've pulled three or four bulls out

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Speaker 1: of in the last week right. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: that individual would really have the self restraint to not

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Speaker 1: just tell hebody to tell his buddies unless he's a

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Speaker 1: real pro. Well, the real pro is getting real pro

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Speaker 1: tip to keep that stuff under wraps, like you know what,

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Speaker 1: really probably also pricey. Here's a little something for you.

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Speaker 1: Let's not talk about where this bull came out of.

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Speaker 1: Guy rode in about um Santa Claus, saying that with

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Speaker 1: c W D and all the bands on captive, certain

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Speaker 1: moving servants across straight state lines, he thinks that Santa

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Speaker 1: Claus is like the mythology of Santa Claus. He's gonna

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Speaker 1: come and looking like a grade A a hole for track,

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Speaker 1: and he's deer all over the whole earth. I thought,

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, it's a cute point. It's cute, um, Michelle.

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Speaker 1: Two questions from female perspective. One, did you feel that

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Speaker 1: when we did the like, you know, the begging and

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Speaker 1: like our episode begging and pleading, right, Okay, someone thought

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Speaker 1: that it was I don't understand degrading to women. I

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Speaker 1: did see that email. Yeah, she was, why can you

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Speaker 1: help me with that? Well? First, what I interpreted from

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Speaker 1: that email was she was saying, Hey, you're assuming that

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Speaker 1: your audience is all men predominantly men. Right, That's it's

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Speaker 1: not true. It's you know, our our numbers. Why was

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Speaker 1: she saying we're assuming that. I think she was saying

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Speaker 1: or saying that we're assuming, um, that sales pitch should

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Speaker 1: only be directed towards men, and that by um pitching

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Speaker 1: the you know you're gonna learn how to cook and

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Speaker 1: treat your sweetheart well with this fancy meal, that that's

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Speaker 1: perhaps all women care about. I don't know it. I

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Speaker 1: think if she kind of missed the mark there do Yeah, Kelly,

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Speaker 1: and I went on you the guy wrote in we

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Speaker 1: were talking about I was talking one day about taking

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Speaker 1: my daughter out and duck hunting, and her feet got

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Speaker 1: cold and she was crying, and I, even though I

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Speaker 1: had my wife made me when we had a daughter

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Speaker 1: at the minute my wife found out we were having

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Speaker 1: a daughter, but she made me vow to not treat

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Speaker 1: our daughter any different than I would treat our boys.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to the outdoor pursuits. There's no right.

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Speaker 1: Expectations are the same, pressures are the same. However, my

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Speaker 1: daughter laying in the marsh crying struck me as fundamentally

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Speaker 1: different than my boy laying in the marsh crying, Like

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Speaker 1: it just hit me differently. And a guy wrote in

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Speaker 1: to say this very very anecdotal, but a guy wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about how he works. These two guys and

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Speaker 1: the guys at the same age, they make the same

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Speaker 1: amount of money. Very similar. Dudes. Uh, they you have daughters.

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Speaker 1: One of them when they take the when he when

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Speaker 1: he takes the girls out and they would cry, he

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Speaker 1: would give in and bring him back home. The other one,

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Speaker 1: when his daughters would cry, he'd make him tough about,

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Speaker 1: give him a tough talking to and make him stick

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Speaker 1: it out. Fast forward a couple of decades or whatever

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Speaker 1: amount of time, and the ones who got to go

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Speaker 1: home when they were cold, um all became drug addicts

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Speaker 1: and pole dancers, he was explaining, and the ones who

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Speaker 1: had the tough it out are assets to our country.

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Speaker 1: What do you have anything? I'm just telling you what

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Speaker 1: a guy wrote, right, I'm telling what a guy wrote

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Speaker 1: in this is not nothing mean nothing. What do you

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Speaker 1: when you hear that? What do you feel? I think

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Speaker 1: that that's funny. I also think that that's one way

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Speaker 1: of looking at it or creating like an upshot of

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Speaker 1: a scenario. But I also think there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: other factors at play there that no, can't be right,

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Speaker 1: can't be nuance introduced. Um, you'll think it all stems

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Speaker 1: to what happens in like a child's development course in

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Speaker 1: life is all set in the dark, Marsh. I think

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Speaker 1: life might be a little more enjoyable and simple. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that you know, hard, difficult, challenging scenarios

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Speaker 1: for kids are important and you know, like they say,

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Speaker 1: it builds character and uh, I don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: I think it's okay. We'll touch back with you when

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Speaker 1: you have a bunch of parenting experienced a lot, right. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna be, you know, seeking you out for

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Speaker 1: some advice. Yeah, anything, all same. We needs to bring

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Speaker 1: up before we talk about American Prairie Reserve. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: kids being tough, I went skiing for the first day

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Speaker 1: yesterday of the season with my kids, and my oldest

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Speaker 1: ski all day with a bass layer and then her

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Speaker 1: jacket just wide open, and it was fifteen twenty degrees

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Speaker 1: up there no wind now. But I'm just like for

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Speaker 1: all the times when we go through stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: when they're just like in the blind or in the

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Speaker 1: boat or wherever, cold and like miserable, and I just

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Speaker 1: want to remember when you're up on the ski hill

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Speaker 1: and you're just like open the winds blowing right through there,

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Speaker 1: like you don't give a ship, like not even kind

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Speaker 1: of cold, and I was chilly. I had two or

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Speaker 1: three layers of wool on, plus a puffy jacket in

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Speaker 1: my shell. That's what makes it hard when they're crying

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Speaker 1: and cold, is you can't tell if they're leveraging because

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Speaker 1: you want to be like that day. I want to

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Speaker 1: be like I would love I would pay any amount

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Speaker 1: of money to feel what your toes feel like right

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Speaker 1: now to know if this is going on or if

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Speaker 1: this is like an avenue you're taking. Yeah, a little

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Speaker 1: manipulation to get into the next activity, because I would

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Speaker 1: be my daughter would not have a difficult time manipulating me.

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Speaker 1: My boy, I'm all over it. But again, as hard

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Speaker 1: as you try, it's like it's just different, and I

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Speaker 1: struggle with it being different. Oh one quick thing too,

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Speaker 1: So speaking of speaking of the episode that we dedicated

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Speaker 1: to the meat Eater, Fish and Game cookbook recipes and

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Speaker 1: techniques for every hunter and Angler. Uh, we had a

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Speaker 1: thing happened where um reception of the book we we

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Speaker 1: didn't we meaning our publisher speaking grout random house like

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Speaker 1: like we didn't anticipate the eager reception for that book.

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Speaker 1: I mean we did, but I didn't know to what

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Speaker 1: degree it would happened. And we ran into a little

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Speaker 1: problem where it's a good problem to have, where the

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Speaker 1: books were gone, like a like a nice good print

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Speaker 1: run of books. We're gone the morning of pub day.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of frustration out there with people

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Speaker 1: who are trying to go on BNN dot com, Amazon

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Speaker 1: dot com, and there's seeing long lead times on book delivery.

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Speaker 1: All you know, if you're going to like make your order,

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Speaker 1: the book will come. We are, They're they're making more books.

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Speaker 1: Everything's gonna be taken care of. I know it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit frustrating. You still see stuff on our end.

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Speaker 1: It's like promoting buying the book even though it's a

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Speaker 1: long lead time to get it going. But just trust

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Speaker 1: bear with us, um the bookleship. It's just been it's

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Speaker 1: been really exciting to see how fast um the book

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Speaker 1: went and how popular it's become. But it's uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like a little bit of a pain in there

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Speaker 1: of having run out. So it's coming Morril ship tons

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Speaker 1: more around the way. If you place your order, your

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Speaker 1: order will be honored and you will get the book. Um.

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Speaker 1: And in the future too, we're gonna also through the

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Speaker 1: meat eater dot com. You can go into the store

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Speaker 1: and eventually not right now, but eventually will have we'll

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Speaker 1: be selling uh signed copies there as well. That's the

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Speaker 1: ways out. But it'll come good. Okay, Sean, you're ready,

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Speaker 1: You're ready. How how annoying is it? How annoying is

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Speaker 1: it when talking about the American Prayer Reserve? How much

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Speaker 1: do you hate it? On a one to ten when

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Speaker 1: people mention the Buffalo Commons, Is it totally different or

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Speaker 1: do you see that there's a continuum of thought one

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Speaker 1: being low. One is like that doesn't bother me at all.

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Speaker 1: Ten is like, why would you bring that up? It's

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with this. I think I go

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Speaker 1: for a negative too, because it's an exciting portal into

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Speaker 1: talking about history and a trajectory of an idea over time.

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Speaker 1: And that helps people realize because you know when they

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Speaker 1: oftentimes they start off it's a negative connotation of Buffalo

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Speaker 1: commons and you can actually connect dots to what I

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Speaker 1: think is very positive for the public for this project.

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Speaker 1: I like, I like the question. Okay, so then let's

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Speaker 1: read it out again. I'm gonna give you another one

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Speaker 1: ten rate all your expertise and breaking down like Frank Popper,

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Speaker 1: Mary Popper, the idea of the buffalo comm and what

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Speaker 1: precipitated it? Where are you at on that? Because I'll

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Speaker 1: do it, but I'll do like a four. Uh say

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Speaker 1: it again, like to tell the story of what the

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Speaker 1: buffalo like that idea? Right? The sociologist Frank Popper, right,

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Speaker 1: and Debora a Deva not Mary, not Mary, that's a

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Speaker 1: British woman. And the Dick van Dyke and yeah, Mary Poppins, um,

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Speaker 1: So so you know it better? You know what better mean?

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Speaker 1: Do you want to tell the story? Uh, well, I

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Speaker 1: can do it and you can correct me where I

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Speaker 1: miss briefly you correct me. Um, very very condensed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just want to It's just an interesting idea. Debra

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Speaker 1: and Frank who actually keep in touch with us because

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Speaker 1: they're kind of watching this you have email a little

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Speaker 1: bit and like this project. But there, and what's important

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Speaker 1: is they're they're demographers from Rutgers University. They're just sociologists.

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Speaker 1: They're interested in why do people move about with it,

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Speaker 1: particularly within the United States, what causes people to move

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Speaker 1: north to north to south to north in the eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: what caused people to move out of the northeas us

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Speaker 1: down into the southwest, and just why why does that?

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Speaker 1: How many people are moving when what was the impetus?

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Speaker 1: When did the impetus go away? And they stopped moving?

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Speaker 1: All that kind of stuff. So they just theorized, as

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Speaker 1: they looked at patterns and themes, which sociologists should do,

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Speaker 1: what was going on in rural areas all over the world,

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Speaker 1: actually not just the US, but in rural are list,

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Speaker 1: particularly where there's lots of agriculture. What they noticed was

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Speaker 1: as agriculture like any industry, commercial fishing or logging or

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Speaker 1: coal mining, whatever it is. Over time, because of increased efficiencies,

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Speaker 1: it needs less and less people to get the same

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Speaker 1: amount of things done. So as people found themselves hey,

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Speaker 1: ten years ago as part of a threshing crew or

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Speaker 1: whatever it might have been, as a cowboy, whatever it

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Speaker 1: might have been. Uh, and we used to move the

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Speaker 1: cows around and stay real close to them. Like now

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Speaker 1: the rest rotation rausing, you don't need so many just

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Speaker 1: the kind of take care of themselves whatever. But the

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Speaker 1: need for people in an egg down and down and

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Speaker 1: down every decade. So where do they go. They go

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Speaker 1: to the city use because that's where the jobs are.

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Speaker 1: So if they noticed the United States no different. Over time,

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Speaker 1: particularly twenties and forties, people were beginning to drift towards

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Speaker 1: urban areas where there's more job choice and you can

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Speaker 1: do right by your family economically. And they said, okay,

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Speaker 1: what happens and the vacuum that's left behind, and there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be lots of eggs being done there. But perhaps

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Speaker 1: some of this can would on its own without any

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Speaker 1: projects like a pr Revert back to the more of

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Speaker 1: the wildness that we heard from Catlan and Bodmer and

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Speaker 1: Lewis and Clark and people like that, it may actually

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Speaker 1: be revert back and take over some areas of that.

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Speaker 1: And they said, even maybe it's the great buffalo will

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Speaker 1: come back. Maybe not as many used to be, but

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Speaker 1: we have big buffalo herds. And this is about a

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Speaker 1: twenty page paper and page eighteen that one thing could

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Speaker 1: there could be a buffalo commons out there, and that

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Speaker 1: ignited the whole thing. People went nuts, obviously, because that's

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Speaker 1: kind of how that's kind of how that happened. And

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Speaker 1: they said, you guys were just demographers, just were just

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Speaker 1: saying a potential theory. We're not starting a project to

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Speaker 1: go do it. So I think you familar with the

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Speaker 1: writer Bill Kittridge his book Hole in the Sky he

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Speaker 1: um he he. He has you know, a great many

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Speaker 1: environmental concerns and and uh, you know in his writing

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Speaker 1: and writes from an environmental perspective, his ranching background. Um.

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Speaker 1: But he had tried to articulate why some why some

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Speaker 1: people felt that why some people were insulted back by

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Speaker 1: that idea, And it would be that you had generations

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Speaker 1: of people on a landscape who had dedicated their lives

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Speaker 1: to say like making the desert bloom, or or to

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Speaker 1: building communities and creating an economy and for someone to

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Speaker 1: and not that the people who proposed the buffalo, not

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Speaker 1: that the demographers of sociologists who proposed the Buffalo commons

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Speaker 1: um they weren't making a value judgment, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: They're just pointing out something that could eventually happen. But

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Speaker 1: people did. Some people celebrated the idea, and it was

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Speaker 1: and it was, and it was, as Kittridge explained, it's

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Speaker 1: like a little bit could be taken to be insulting

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Speaker 1: by people whose families father's, grandfather's great grandfathers had dedicated

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Speaker 1: their lives to like making community, and then for people

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Speaker 1: to be uh enthusiastic about the idea of that going

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Speaker 1: away was an uneasy idea for some people. I think

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Speaker 1: you're exactly right. And the interesting thing is that happened

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Speaker 1: not too long ago. It was like thirty years ago

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Speaker 1: that first paper came out, maybe the longer, but not

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Speaker 1: much has changed in terms of phenomenon you just described.

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Speaker 1: They are he Uh. Debra and Frank touched a nerve

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Speaker 1: when they wrote that, innocuously, they thought, but it was

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Speaker 1: the the excitement that you said of other people that hey,

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Speaker 1: this could be something to watch and be excited about.

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Speaker 1: More public eye says better hunting things like that wildness

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Speaker 1: coming back. Um, people took offense, and it's I think

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Speaker 1: it's justifiably human nature when something is going away that

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Speaker 1: you cherish, that's precious to you, a a lifestyle and

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Speaker 1: growing up in these towns and being proud of small

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Speaker 1: town sports and things like that. And you've watched it

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Speaker 1: diminished since World War One in many places like a

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Speaker 1: northeastern Montana ten per decade decline in population. And then

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Speaker 1: someone says this in the early eighties. Whenever that came out,

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Speaker 1: you're primed to be highly offended because there's already an

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Speaker 1: underlying sadness. Totally understandable. It's a human thing. These are

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Speaker 1: not there's no bad actors in this situation. Understandable. And

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Speaker 1: someone puts a fine point on it and others start

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Speaker 1: to into a ranch or farmer pile on with enthusiasm. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it hasn't changed. What is the American Prairie Reserve.

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Speaker 1: We kind of missed that in a real clean way,

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Speaker 1: like what is it? It's a project to create the

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Speaker 1: largest wildlife reserve ever assembled. In the Condell, United States

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Speaker 1: to be opened up for republic access for the public's enjoyment,

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Speaker 1: with all the wildlife species that were there for roughly

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Speaker 1: eleven to twelve thousand years up until about eighteen to

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Speaker 1: about eighteen nine years. So UM put all that back,

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Speaker 1: perhaps not in pure historic numbers, but a lot more

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Speaker 1: than is there now and create a lot different ways

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Speaker 1: for people to go out and enjoy it and save

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Speaker 1: that phenomenon I just described for three or four hundred

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Speaker 1: years into the future. And doing this requires the purchasing

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Speaker 1: of privately owned land as a as a small aspect

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Speaker 1: of the of the strategies that we're using. One unfortunate

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Speaker 1: part of it is you have to buy the land.

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Speaker 1: I say unfortunate because it's a horrendous lift to go

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Speaker 1: find the money and then get the land deals done.

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Speaker 1: And it's a really really big project. But it's a

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Speaker 1: small part of the overall thing, which is putting in

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Speaker 1: the visitor infrastructure, helping people understand how to move about

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Speaker 1: without disrupting UM anything from lex to wildlife corridors to

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Speaker 1: whatever else. How do we work with nature and all that.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot to be done, and the land private

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Speaker 1: land assembled which is a key component to make this

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Speaker 1: whole thing work, takes just an extraordinary amount of time

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Speaker 1: and effort and stress. So again, because you can have

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Speaker 1: a roadblock of a relatively a quarter section of land

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Speaker 1: that is absolutely necessary to open up a hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: acres of land, I think the blocking, Oh, it happens

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Speaker 1: over the place. So you know, the last two properties

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Speaker 1: we got out there, you can see on the map

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Speaker 1: the two crow on the p M. As people are

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Speaker 1: now the instant people here, we get uh, some part

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Speaker 1: of a property, they'll say can I go out on that? Say? Yes,

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Speaker 1: this way, this way. We've got to fix this bridge.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to falling off the bridge. Wait until

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Speaker 1: we fix this bridge across the Judas. But you can

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Speaker 1: come in here part here right across our private land,

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Speaker 1: access all this public land on top of the big

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Speaker 1: sag or whatever. We get maps we hand out to

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Speaker 1: people you can download on events and maps or whatever

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Speaker 1: you want to use um to show people how to

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Speaker 1: move about and excess every single piece of public land

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Speaker 1: that's on there. And so that's let me I think,

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Speaker 1: let me, I think some people. I'm just gonna guess

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Speaker 1: Steve that people are interested in our technique and our

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Speaker 1: strategy and all that, but some of them behind it

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Speaker 1: is why a lot of us quit our day job

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Speaker 1: to do this. My life was going just fine on

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Speaker 1: my early forties, a lot more lucrative than working for

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Speaker 1: a nonprofit. I can tell you that why would you

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Speaker 1: do this? And this is really really exciting to be

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Speaker 1: a part of. I'll just speak personally. Don't look for

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Speaker 1: the on the website. I'm not speaking holistically for a

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Speaker 1: p R right now, but to me and I started

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Speaker 1: thinking about this at the w w F. Guys that

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Speaker 1: are going, how do you think we had to go

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Speaker 1: about this? And there's a lot of it was really

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Speaker 1: interesting time. But I started. I started hunting with my

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Speaker 1: dad and probably first we first rather than leaving me home,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about your little kids. He probably finally acquiesced

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Speaker 1: and let me go when I was seven or eight,

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Speaker 1: so that'll be in the mid nineteen sixties. In Montana.

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Speaker 1: I grew up mostly in Great Falls. My dad had

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Speaker 1: L camps. He guided a good bit. He had L

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Speaker 1: camps in the high Woods, then west of Augusta, Soun

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Speaker 1: River Canyon across Gibson Lake in that area, back behind

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Speaker 1: sal L Flats, and all that stuff in the sixties.

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Speaker 1: But even coming out onto the flats around hayst Apute,

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Speaker 1: or we'd be down in the dear Born a lot

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Speaker 1: from you old year, come out here in this country

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Speaker 1: for prong worn whenever he'd fortunate enough to get a tag.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty exotic to come out to the northeastern Montana

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Speaker 1: from Great Falls looked like the end of the earth,

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Speaker 1: it felt like. But we would go true ranches and

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Speaker 1: he would have the name on a piece of paper.

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Speaker 1: There's no electronics back then, knocking on the door, go

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Speaker 1: in and sit down, have hot chocolate and sit there

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Speaker 1: for an hour and a half and talk with the rancher.

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Speaker 1: And we would have access and they'd say, well, here's

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Speaker 1: my private section. You go in there. Please close the

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00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: gate and go over here, and you can park in

427
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: that corner. Just climb right over the top of it.

428
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: You'll have all this public land, but you can if

429
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: you see something on a private that's fine. How many

430
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: tags you got? My dad, I got an a tag

431
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: and a beat tag. Okay, you know, we just I

432
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: watched this discussion from the time I was eight years old,

433
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: Lots and lots and lots of times all over the state,

434
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: not too much in the southwest, Dylan. We didn't honestly

435
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: didn't get down there, but there was a way of

436
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: operating at that time. And this just sounds trite and

437
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: too simple, but I hope this can be a part

438
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: of bringing that back. I hope when people look at

439
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: a pr they go, that's how it kind of used

440
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: to be. But you don't even have to sit in

441
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: the kitchen. You don't have to take that step. So

442
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: if you got to some prayer various other areas, you

443
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: can see exactly where you go. We took down the

444
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: gates and we put in cattle guards. That eliminates a

445
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: lot of problems. Uh, put in cattle guards, and the

446
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: idea of leaving gates open goes away that it's our

447
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: it's at our expense, and we say we want you

448
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: to be able to find this. We have some warnings

449
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: about getting stuck. So you know, a gumbo is we

450
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: we lose a lot of people out there, they eventually

451
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: get out. Nobody has been lost forever, but a lot

452
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: of surprises. People haven't seen gumboo before. But U I,

453
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: if you look at just me personally, I'd like to

454
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: take it back to how things were like fifty years

455
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: ago and it was better because I've been here, I've

456
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: I know this. I've been around hunting all big game

457
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: hunting all my life, and bird hunting is a part

458
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: of culture in our family. My mom hunted with her

459
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: at six um. It's things have changed and all this

460
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: to me. I've listened to your thing on Public Access.

461
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: You should I can't Hember when it was, but I

462
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: listened to your show on Public Access and people are

463
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: you guys are getting into the details on corner hopping.

464
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: I just thought, how dumb is it that we've gotten

465
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: to this place that you know, do you own the

466
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: airspace above that corner? It just seems can use a

467
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: pole vault. No, I guess people in airspace And it's

468
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: just something's happened and I'd like to just I think

469
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: it's become silly. And what I'd like is a three

470
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: and a half three three and a half million acre

471
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: area that's well taken care of, you don't wreck it

472
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: and a lot of yeah, who's running around on motorcycles

473
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: and tear it up that people can go this makes sense.

474
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: We've we've we've we've rejected some of the silliness. It

475
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can do anything you want, because people

476
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: wreck things quickly if there's not rules and parameters and sideboards. Anyway,

477
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: just so I wanted to know what's behind this. It's

478
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: not it's not a wonky technical business thing. There's personal

479
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: motivation behind it by me. And now we got over

480
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: forty employees, our new CEO. She's terrific, Alison Fox. It's

481
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: put together a group of people that have really really

482
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: fired up about what I'm I've just described. So when

483
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: are you, like, is it fair to say that you're

484
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: the architect, like the original architect of a pr um

485
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: architect would be a push maybe general contractor yeah, I

486
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: guess the idea. Explain how the idea came about, and

487
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: if you're real good, tied into what we just talked

488
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 1: about with the buffalo. If I'm real good, help me out, Michelle.

489
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: Remind me if I space this out, um the idea.

490
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: If you had a number of historians here in the room,

491
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: we would all probably argue about which decade it came about.

492
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: But let's just get back in the relative early eighteen hundreds,

493
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,239
Speaker 1: after the French fur trappers from Hudson Bay had come

494
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: out and started describing this incredible wildlife phenomenon that they

495
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: saw ten fifteen years for Lewis and Clark out here.

496
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: Lewis and Clark chronicled that because the President said, you

497
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: shall write down every single thing you see, so inadvertently

498
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: we got these great journals, particularly the three hundred mile

499
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,239
Speaker 1: right spot that we're seeing, we're working in that they

500
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: didn't see anywhere on their four thousand mile round trip

501
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: walking from St. Louis to the coast and back. But

502
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: later on other people came to and corroborated what was there.

503
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: George Catlin, the painter who's out probably twenty times nineteen

504
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: thirties in the nineteen forty, has wrote some incredible books,

505
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: but in the nineteen thirty six he said, every time

506
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: I come out here, he didn't use the words and

507
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: paraphrasing blown away by the wildlife situation in this one

508
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: particular spot about three hundred miles wide south of into

509
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: what we now call the Brakes region, the six county area.

510
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: And he were back to Congress and said, we ought

511
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: to say this beautiful thing as a nation's park. This

512
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 1: is forty years for the Park Service even got going.

513
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: He said, this has got to be saved. That it's

514
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: going away. Beaver's getting trapped out of here. There's hunters

515
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: already happened. There's no cows at this time. There wasn't

516
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: cows from the twenty years, just bison and all that

517
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: was Callen kind of nailed it did. Sorry about that.

518
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: That was the dark ages May thirties. Sorry about that, um,

519
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: getting used to my little echo chamber here with my

520
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: headset um. But afterwards a lot of other people said

521
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 1: the same thing. Park Service came up in the night.

522
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: Now we had a as you know, the Park Service

523
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: got going in the e teen set eighteen seventies with

524
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: the Elbow Stone, and we had a golden era of

525
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: building parks. And I think if Catlan had still been alive,

526
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: he'd say, well, of course they're gonna pick this. This

527
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: is gonna thick fit in the suite of parks that

528
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: people are imagining Roosevelt and everybody else. But we had

529
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: a pretty darn good run. But our last one, Grand

530
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: Titon National Park we did in nineteen fifty. We haven't

531
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: done anything big since. We call the stop seventy years

532
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: of nothing, no more parks. We did amazing things Yosemite

533
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: and Grand Canyon and every glades on well topography. Aesthetics

534
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: mostly was about aesthetics, and for the most part, if

535
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: you go back and take a look at it and uh,

536
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: look at ken Burns, you know, greatest idea films and

537
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: things like that pretty much was for views and getting

538
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: people out of nature, but nature as through the viewer

539
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: aesthetic view, and they passed over the grass lands. So

540
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: other people, particularly some f TOVP biologists David Daniel Lickman

541
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: and Uh and uh in Uh Colorado in the nineties,

542
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: said gosh, we really blew it. We should make a

543
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: some day, we should get red of this park idea

544
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 1: back up and make some sort of protected area here. Um,

545
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: the paupers didn't really go that far. We already talked

546
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: about them. The guy who really probably nailed it, I

547
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: think who deserves the credits a guy named Robert Scott,

548
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: Bob Scott. He was a rare book dealer in Missoula, Montana,

549
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: and he came up with who knows what He camped

550
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: with the Big Open, Ok, he did the Big Open.

551
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: The Big Open was first time he said. The Buffalo

552
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: Commons was a demographic shifts statement that was happening in

553
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: the world. Real people going to the cities and perhaps

554
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: certain areas could would be rewild and on their own.

555
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: Bob Scott in the early to mid nineties said, there

556
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: ought to be a protected area right here, five million

557
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 1: acres to thirds south of the third north of the river.

558
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: We'll call it. We're gonna call it the Big Open.

559
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: That will be the name of the thing, just like

560
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: Big Ben National Park. But you can hunt in it.

561
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring everything back full ecology. I've got

562
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: his papers like thirty pages long. He wrote it in

563
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: the eighties. He was the first to totally nail it,

564
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: and he went around talked to college students all of

565
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: the United States. He was a huge cult hero. Had

566
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: a hard time starting any any business uh too around it,

567
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: and he got more than can you imagine the blowback

568
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Timing is everything right? So that was

569
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: a big one nature conservancy. He can say more about

570
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: bomb he's a great guy. But but back up in

571
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: the Big Open a minute. Yeah. So he was like, like,

572
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: can you set the stage a little bit, like set

573
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: the table about what is up there where you have

574
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: the CMR. You have large federally managed lands already in place.

575
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: What we have up there, well, I think Bob rightly,

576
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: he's a very astute um. He said, this is the

577
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: thing is this can be affordable. One of the reasons

578
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 1: we stopped making National Park because we got got extremely contentious,

579
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: just really hard in the park to service just said

580
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't because they were out of money. They're hard

581
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: of being beat on, like this is not the highest

582
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: and best use in Grand Teton. It was a lot

583
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: to get that shoehorned in and then be done. That

584
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: was rough, you know, the Snake River Land Company and all.

585
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: How to get that in It got to be very,

586
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: very difficult and contentious because you're excluding so many activities,

587
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: excluding activities ranching, farming, everything else, excluding commerce and in

588
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: our our society, you know or capitalism. Uh, it better

589
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: be able to make money some way or it's gonna

590
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: often an awful, amazing intrinsic value. That's really clear to

591
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: everyone that we back away and not want to make

592
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: money on that piece of land. So, yeah, it got difficult.

593
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: But he said, how about this. It's already there because

594
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: we have b O M land, we have state sections.

595
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: We have one point one like an acres of the

596
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: c MR Native Americans, both bell Nap and Fort Peck

597
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: Reservation will be into this and all the puzzle pieces

598
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: are there. You only have to get a little bit

599
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: of private land glued all together. Airbrush it bring the

600
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: animals back. Not mammoths and mastodons and short faced bearers, etcetera,

601
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: but the stuff that was there just a hundred and

602
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: fifty years ago before it's eradicated. We're so close, We're

603
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: so close. And that's what he crystallized when he talked

604
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: about the big Open. How did he have a square

605
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: mileage idea of what would be like an adequate size

606
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: five million grasslands park? He's he kept he up and

607
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: said five million acres And for for context, what's Yellowstone

608
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: two point one two two? Okay, So to make a

609
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: to to make a patchwork of federally managed lands, state lands,

610
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: reservation lands, and then private purchase lands, you would make

611
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: something twice as big as a grassland. I don't want

612
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: to call it the park, But what's the good word? Honestly, Bob,

613
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: if he somehow here's this podcast down the note, he

614
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: may write an email and say, SHAUNO slightly off, are

615
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: really off? But it's probably the closest model we have

616
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: out there is the Blackfoot challenge over by Alvando is

617
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: what are he's shooting for. He was assuming ranchers would

618
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: stay there, and he was assuming they would allow they

619
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: were a lot of hunting on their properties. But what

620
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: he was trying to get them to do is tolerate

621
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: by in order of magnitude more wildlife out there, use

622
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: less fences. Bring the idea of cowboys back, push your

623
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: cattle around, bison, go that way. Problemly with that way,

624
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: oh go that way, you got your you move your

625
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: cows around kind of deal. So, managing fenceless cattle operations

626
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: in the midst of wildlife abundance, I think he was

627
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: very much blackfoot challenge oriented. So Bob please write and

628
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: correct me on that. But I think so that's the model,

629
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: not a park. Uh not no hunting, Uh, definitely. He

630
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: was big into access. It's pretty you know, it's very

631
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: very interesting. Surprisingly, how close um to what to what

632
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: we're doing? What happened? Then? Are you comfortable with how

633
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: we're walking through this? Yeah? You know, it's great gold outside,

634
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: it's warming here. I'm good. So what was the what

635
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: was the next? Like? If we imagine that this is

636
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: like a continue there's some sort of continuum of inspirational thought. Right,

637
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: two more steps, really important ones, and all the way along.

638
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: I think what I want to make sure is people

639
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of credit to pass around.

640
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: This is like a rugby game. The ball has been

641
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: going down through the ages and people working hard, trying

642
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: to crystallize and trying to change hearts and minds to

643
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: see how this can work. So from Catlin to Lick

644
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: to Uh to UM, I'm gonna skip over the because

645
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: I don't think the Poppers are trying to push anything.

646
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: They're just making a statement. But Bob Scott, Bob Scott

647
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: was pushing hard. And it's in the Poppers interesting to

648
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: me because that was I remember I would have been

649
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: too young remember one it was proposed, but that was

650
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: the first idea I heard about this and it was

651
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: like a really just interesting concept. So I I bring

652
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: it up because in my understanding of that landscape and

653
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: in this story, that was my point of entry. Well,

654
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: I think you're right to see it's not only did

655
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: you intersect time when you're old enough to have consciousness

656
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: to see it, but it's also they were trying to say, guys,

657
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: this is a trend, and I in I spent more

658
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: time in for profit business than I have a nonprofit business.

659
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: And trends. I want to talk about that later. If

660
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: we can't put something in the queue, is what trends.

661
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 1: It's really important to take a look at long, long

662
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: term trends. That's all they're trying to say is, guys,

663
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: here's a trend that we see because we think about

664
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: every day. We just want to put it out there

665
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: that it's happening in Brazil, over the world, that's happening here,

666
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: so you might want to think about it. That was

667
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: their point of view. Uh. Now, if you're gonna get

668
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: mad at somebody, get mad at Bob Scott Army or

669
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 1: Nathanservance he or WF because we're really talking about doing something.

670
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: So the next really important nature Conservancy of Montiana and

671
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: deserve a lot of credit for crystallizing that. Moving forward

672
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: in the early nineties and mid nineteen nineties, they took

673
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: a look at well, if you were if if by

674
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: chance anybody was to try to fire up this not

675
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: the park Service idea after titon, but try to save

676
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: a big space, I mean, really go for it with guts.

677
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: Try to save a big space where in the northern

678
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: Great Plains all five states and two provinces of Canada.

679
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: We're in the Northern Great Plains at the bioregion. I

680
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: mean it's a it's a it's an eco region they

681
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: call it. Where would be the best spots to really

682
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: really go big? And they didn't. They identified ten thunder

683
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: basin and places in South Dakota were thunder basin. Uh. Now,

684
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: my buddy from wis gonna kill me. Thunder basin is

685
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: in southern Colorado? Is a right south Dakota. I'm not familiar.

686
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: Look it up, gonna look it up. And I'm my

687
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: buddy is from WFF just cringing right now because I

688
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: don't know where it is because I haven't been there.

689
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 1: But anyway, the uh. And they wrote a seminal article

690
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: on if you were to do it, here's ten spots

691
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: top ranked if someone was going to do it. We're

692
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: not saying we're gonna do it. And so they got

693
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: were a whilelife on a cast of characters, probably eight

694
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: or nine really innovative thinkers inside w WF w w

695
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: f US not out of Switzerman. And they took a

696
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: look at Dan, this is amazing. Let's take the ball

697
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: again and run with it, and how can we how

698
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: can we get something going that actually someone like the

699
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: fuse on this, just get someone to consider doing it.

700
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: As they looked at the ten uh, this area in

701
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: Montana came up probably in the top two or three

702
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. So much public land is

703
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: already there, so hopefully this is this is a misjudgment.

704
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: But people can't possibly howl about it because its public land.

705
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: It's the public's land, or turn it over to the public,

706
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: taking down keep out signs and fences, more wildlife. What's

707
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: not to like? Turned out there is plenty that I learned. Um,

708
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: the public Uh, it can be upset about. Um. So

709
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: it's it's affordable. It's really really important trying to buy

710
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: all this land with costume. Maybe I don't know, twenty

711
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: billion dollars to do if you had to buy it

712
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: all private, right, But because you don't have to buy

713
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: at all or hard to buy anything at all to

714
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: make the model work, it's affordable. Really important from TNC

715
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: to their credit in w WS is the amount of

716
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: intact grassland that has not yet been plowed. It's been

717
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: there for thousands of years, looks like it did all

718
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: the way back to the Wisconsin Glacier, right, and then

719
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 1: the wildlife history. So in some of those other places big,

720
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: yes they're cheap, um, yes, the lands intact, but there's

721
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: no record of them having the the population numbers and

722
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: the diversity of wildlife that all those people I mentioned

723
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: earlier saw, Even though they didn't meet each other, they

724
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 1: all reported the same thing. This is just unbelievable cornercope

725
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: of wildlife here from grassland birds, waterfowl, you know, the

726
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: angulusts of predators everything. So because in an open grassland

727
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: environment that had um a history. Yeah, so you had

728
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: a unique history. Bison, l mulder, white tailed deer, grizzly bears, wolves, coyotes, badgers, yea,

729
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: all the grassland birds everything. It was just and we

730
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: can talk, we can take a whole podcast. Why was

731
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: that as a compared to the town their tan areas.

732
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: How Come there wasn't that kind of stuff and that

733
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: we'd see in the sandhills in Nebraska or upan Saskatchewan,

734
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: our Calgary. How come it wasn't just didn't have that

735
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: kind of concentration. But that's for another time. But it did,

736
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: so I think, and then what happened was uh, what's

737
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: keep this short, but word Wildlife Fund was struggling to

738
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: figure out a model because there are no models to

739
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: copy anywhere in the world. Blackfoot challenges something like it

740
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: a little bit. But the landowners stay in the fences,

741
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: stay up in the public a lot is not allowed

742
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: onto their property. So the music bears can move up

743
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: and down the Old Stone to Yukon Corridor, but you're

744
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: not able to move as freely as that bear is

745
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: because you're crossing private property. The added thing with our

746
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: model was it would be open to the public and

747
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 1: we take down science and take down fences and invite

748
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: people out to enjoy this. And that's where we're a

749
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: little bit different than what was happening over there. So

750
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: um uh wide open at the public owns this land,

751
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: we're actually going to count the private land as accessible

752
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: to We want to be able to walk across it

753
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: and not get locked out and have the donor holes

754
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: and corner hopping, all that stuff you guys are familiar with.

755
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: So so when you hit on corner hop I think

756
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: it'd just be helpful for everybody listening if if you

757
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: kind of just to jump back, say like if you

758
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 1: had to buy all of it. It would cost twenty billion.

759
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: So like the grid system out here, the Jeffersonian grid system, UM,

760
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: we have private sections UM that can basically open up

761
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: the access to public sections UM. And so just like

762
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: quick and dirty you guys, I think basically you have

763
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: like a third deeded and if if hundred roughly a

764
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 1: hundred thousand deeded, roughly three hundred thousand that you count

765
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: as part of the A p R. Yeah, and that's

766
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: how the ratio is going so far. It's a good question.

767
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: People can be lost right now. Yeah. I think what's

768
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: important is go now that you did that, you bet

769
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: you better do it. I guess the Jefferson what do

770
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: you mean check if you had to buy all of it?

771
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: So then you're saying we didn't have to buy all

772
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: of it, and that that is the deal. You have

773
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: this checkerboarded landscape where there's public land that can be

774
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: blocked by private land. So UM, you can have two

775
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: sections of UM BLM or UH state land UM that

776
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: you cannot get to because you have a section or

777
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 1: two sections of private ground. UM. So you buy the

778
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: private ground and you essentially have two extra sections of

779
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: land because that public land the private ground was the

780
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: gateway to the public land. Is that helpful? Yeah? The

781
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: Jeffersonian part would be when they were parceling out and

782
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: handing out chunks of land, they would often create a

783
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: pattern of federally owned or state owned and privately owned

784
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: land that resembled when looking at the grid work, that

785
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: resembled the checkerboard where things are joined up corner to corner.

786
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: Sections of land joined corner to corner, so you didn't

787
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: wind up with big, contiguous pieces of ownership. In some areas,

788
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: nice tidy squares. UM typically spurn off a railroad lines. M.

789
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: That's cool. I'm happier, Okay, But I feel we're missing

790
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: something right now, Like I think I want to touch

791
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: on um, what is I feel we haven't done this yet,

792
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: Like what is the a p R? What is the

793
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: American Prairie Reserve? We kind of missed that in a

794
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: real clean way, Like what is it? It's a project

795
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: to create the largest wildlife reserve ever assembled in the

796
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: continent United States, to be opened up for a public

797
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: access for the public's and enjoyment with all the wildlife

798
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: species that were there for roughly eleven to twelve th

799
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: yars up until about eighteen to about eighteen nine years.

800
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: So um put all that back, perhaps not in pure

801
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: historic numbers, but a lot more than is there now,

802
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: and create a lot different ways for people to go

803
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: out and enjoy it and save that phenomenon that I

804
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 1: just described for three or four hundred years into the future.

805
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: And doing this requires the purchasing of privately owned land

806
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: as a as a small aspect of the of the

807
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: strategies that we're using. One unfortunate part of it is

808
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: you have to buy the land. I say unfortunate because

809
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: it's a horrendous lift to go find the money and

810
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: then get the land deals done. And it's a really

811
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: really big project, but it's a small part of the

812
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: overall thing, which is putting in the visitor infrastructure, helping

813
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 1: people understand how to move about without disrupt thing um

814
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: anything from lex to wildlife corridors to whatever else. How

815
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: do we work with nature and all that. There's a

816
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: lot to be done, and the land private land assembled,

817
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: which is a key component to make this whole thing work,

818
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 1: takes just an extraordinary amount of time and effort and stress.

819
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: So again, because you can have a roadblock of a

820
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 1: relatively a quarter section of land that is absolutely necessary

821
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: to open up a hundred thousand acres of land. I

822
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: think the blocking, Oh what happens over the place. So

823
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: you know the last two properties we got out there,

824
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: you can see on the map the two crow on

825
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: the piano. As people are now the instant people here.

826
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: We get some part of a property, they'll say can

827
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: I go out on that? Say yes, this way, this way.

828
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: We've got to fix this bridge. We don't want to

829
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: falling off the bridge. Wait until we fix this bridge

830
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: across the Judas. But you can come in here part

831
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: here got right across our private land. Access all this

832
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 1: public land on top of the big sag or whatever.

833
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: We get maps we hand out to people you can

834
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 1: download on events and maps or whatever you want to

835
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: use um to show people how to move about and

836
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: excess every single piece of public leile that's on there.

837
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: And so that's let me I think, let me I

838
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,479
Speaker 1: think some people. I'm just gonna guess Steve that people

839
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: are interested in our technique and our strategy and all that,

840
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: but some of them behind it is why a lot

841
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: of us quit our day jobs to do this. My

842
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: life was going just fine on my early forties a

843
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: lot more lucrative than working for a nonprofit. I can

844
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: tell you that why would you do this? And this

845
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: is really really exciting to be a part of. I'll

846
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: just speak personally. Don't look for the on the website.

847
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking holistically for a p R right now,

848
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: but to me and I started thinking about this at

849
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: the w WF. Guys that are going, how do you

850
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: think we got to go about this? And there's a

851
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 1: lot of it was really interesting time. But I started.

852
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: I started hunting with my dad and probably first me first,

853
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: rather than leaving me home. You're talking about your little kids.

854
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: He probably finally acquiesced and let me go when I

855
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: was seven or eight. So let'll be in the mid

856
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties in Montana. I grew up mostly in Great Falls.

857
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: My dad had L camps. He guided a good bady

858
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: had L camps in the high Woods then west of

859
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: Augusta from the Sun River Canyon across Gibson Lake in

860
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: that area, back behind some L flats and all that

861
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: stuff in the sixties, but even coming out onto the

862
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: flats around Haystapute or we'd be down in the Deer

863
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: Born a lot from you, old dear come out here

864
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: in this country for prong worn whenever he'd fortunate enough

865
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: to get a tag. That's pretty exotic to come out

866
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: to the northeastern Montana from Great Falls looks like the

867
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: end of the earth, it felt like. But we would

868
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: go true ranches and he would have the name on

869
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: a piece of paper. There's no electronics back then, knocking

870
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 1: on the door, go in and sit down, have hot chocolate,

871
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: and sit there for an hour and a half and

872
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: talk of the rancher. And we would have access and

873
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: they'd say, well, here's my private section. You go in there.

874
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: Please close the gate and go over here, and you

875
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: can park in that corner. Just climb right over the

876
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: top of it. You'll have all this public land, but

877
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: you can if you see something on the private that's fine.

878
00:47:58,120 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: How many tags you got, my dad, I got an

879
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: eight gonna be tag? Okay, you know, we just I

880
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: watched this discussion from the time I was eight years old.

881
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: Lots and lots and lots of times all over the state,

882
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: not too much in the southwest, Dylan, we didn't honestly

883
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: didn't get down there. But there was a way of

884
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: operating at that time, and this just sounds trite and

885
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: too simple. But I hope this can be a part

886
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: of bringing that back. I hope when people look at

887
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: APR they go, that's how it kind of used to be.

888
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 1: But you don't even have to sit in the kitchen.

889
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: You don't have to take that step. So if you

890
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: got to some prayer, various other areas, you can see

891
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: exactly where you go. We took down the gates and

892
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: we put in cattle guards. That eliminates a lot of problems. Uh,

893
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: put in cattle guards, and the idea of leaving gates

894
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: open goes away. It's at it's our it's at our expense,

895
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: and we say, we want you to be able to

896
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: find this. We have some warnings about getting stuck. So

897
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, a gumbo is we we lose a lot

898
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: of people out there. They eventually get out. Nobody has

899
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: been lost forever, but a lot of surprises. People haven't

900
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: seen GUMBOO before. But I if you look at just

901
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: me personally, I'd like to take it back to how

902
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: things were like fifty years ago, and it was better

903
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: because I've been here, I've I know this. I've been

904
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: around hunting all big game hunting all my life, and

905
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: bird Hunting is a part of culture in our family.

906
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,919
Speaker 1: My mom hunted with her at six um. It's things

907
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: have changed and all this to me. I've listened to

908
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: your thing on Public Access. You show. I can't hearb

909
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: when it was, but I listened to your show on

910
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: public Access and people are you guys are getting into

911
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 1: the details on corner hopping. I just thought, how dumb

912
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 1: is it that we've gotten to this place that you know,

913
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: do you own the airspace above that corner? It just

914
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: seems can use a pole vault. No, I guess people

915
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: own airspace. And it's just something's happened and I'd like

916
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: to just I think it's become silly. And what I'd

917
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: like is a three and a half three three and

918
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: a half million acre area that's well taken care of.

919
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 1: You don't wreck it and a lot of yah who's

920
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,919
Speaker 1: running around on motorcycles and tear it up that people

921
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: can go This makes sense. We've we've we've we've red

922
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: e acted some of the silliness. It doesn't mean you

923
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 1: can do anything you want because people wreck things quickly

924
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: if there's not rules and parameters and sideboards. Anyway, just

925
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: so I want you to know what's behind this. It's

926
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: not it's not a wonky technical business thing. There's personal

927
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: motivation behind it by me. And now we got over

928
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: forty employees. Our new CEO, she's terrific. Alison Fox's put

929
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: together a group of people that are really really fired

930
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: up about what I'm I've just described. How is the

931
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: how is the money? How do you guys raise money

932
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: to buy the lands that you've bought? And how many

933
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: and how many acres does the American Pray Reserve own? Now, uh,

934
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: I should have a lifeline to call back to the office.

935
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: But I think we're private acres um and owned as

936
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: a squishy owns, just like if you have houses, you

937
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: own some of it in the bank, ons other parts

938
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: of so, but we own better than six of all

939
00:50:58,200 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: that land you see on the map, free and clear.

940
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: So we manage to balance sheet very very carefully. And

941
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, those are our private acres um. I think

942
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: all told her a little over four hundred thousand acres

943
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: with state sections as you were describing and BLM sections.

944
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: The way we get the money, I say, unfortunately, because

945
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: it's hard, is just pure fundraising. It's asking people describing

946
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 1: to people in various ways. Sometimes using social media, sometimes

947
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: on our website, sometimes flying all over the place and

948
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: sitting down one on one if you can finally get

949
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: a dinner with them or something. Say this is what

950
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm doing, we'd like to take this next step. Would

951
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: you like to help us take this next step? People

952
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: hundred years smell, I really appreciate the action you might

953
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: take here because of this, and as they like it.

954
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: They don't always, but if they like it, let's say,

955
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get your money right now, but keep

956
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 1: me informed maybe a couple of years. I'm kind of

957
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: tied up right now some other commitments. So you go

958
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: back over and over and over and over again. The

959
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: biggest mixed miscalculation I made leaving for profit business. Uh,

960
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: my own whole company is running. It's been around about

961
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: thirty five years in Silicon Valley. I had no idea

962
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: how hard fundraising was going to be. I thought it's

963
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: like sales. You know, you just get you do it

964
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: for a while when you're small, and you finally get

965
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: the sales team and you get a VP of sales,

966
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: and you're good that you don't have to do it.

967
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: It's not like that. It's unbelievably difficult, and particularly in

968
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: a very crowded fundraising environment in the world. And if

969
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: you they can look at what people give to philanthropically,

970
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: they give to their churches, they give to their home

971
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 1: and maters, they get to the arts and way way

972
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: way way down below you've seen these these tow ranked

973
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 1: list is conservation. It's like a sliver. Within that sliver,

974
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 1: a lot of competition, a lot of sharp elbows. You

975
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: gotta move it and NonStop. You can hardly stop for

976
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: a brass I've been doing it for seventeen years. Do

977
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: you do you primarily draw small donations from private individuals

978
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: or do you primarily draw like large donations from extraordinarily

979
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: wealthy people. We do everything. Our strategy on fundraising is

980
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: everybody go along. So we've got a huge team that

981
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: focuses on this because unfortunately got to buy the land's expensive.

982
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 1: The way it works right now is we get money

983
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: from all fifty states in the United States and ten

984
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 1: different countries around the world. If you put that in

985
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: the top rank, the most people donating to American Prairie

986
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: Reserve are Montanan's and then a descending order down to

987
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: their I can't tell you all fifty how it actually

988
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: stack up, but I can send it to if you

989
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: want to put it on your website or something different.

990
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: Some people, um are what you call sustaining donors. They

991
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: let us hit their credit card for five bucks a month.

992
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: We love those people. Lots of those people adds up

993
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: to a lot of keeping this project moving. So that's

994
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 1: the big one. That's the really, that's the big thing.

995
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 1: We're trying to grow. And there's some thousands of people

996
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: in that arena. But to buy these properties, you also

997
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: do have to have in your portfolio a certain number

998
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: of bigger donors. So they're forty or fifty people out

999
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: there that can give that. We have to travel a

1000
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: lot to see summer in Montana most unfortunately or not

1001
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: so even have a cup of coffees of plane ride

1002
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: expensive and difficult, time consuming, but they will sometimes give

1003
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: us enough to get, you know, with a few other

1004
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: people enough to take a run out of particular medium

1005
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: sized piece of property or something like that. So it's

1006
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: everybody maybe everything Steve so across the gamut. Have you

1007
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: guys had pieces of land that would fall within the

1008
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: area you're trying to do this come up for sale,

1009
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: but you weren't in a position to to try to

1010
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: make a play on it, or are you usually able

1011
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: to when something comes up for sale to get in

1012
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 1: there and try to be a purchaser. Uh, the only

1013
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: time that was not the case where things there's a

1014
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: short anomaly, and that was in the tech crash. Couldn't

1015
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: have been a dumber time to start this project in

1016
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: two thousand one, because the tech crash. Tech crash happened

1017
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 1: in two thousand two. Anybody I knew had money, they

1018
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: didn't have money anymore. It's pretty bleak. That was the

1019
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: only time for about a three year run when there

1020
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: was not property out there that we would like to buy.

1021
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: Since then, since I'd say about two thousand six, if

1022
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 1: and I've been around every property we've deal, deal we've done,

1023
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: we've done twenty nine of them so far. Any snapshot

1024
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: in time on that whole continuum until this morning, and

1025
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: this morning is still true. There's far more property for

1026
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: sale on this map than we can afford to buy.

1027
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: So there's like six and more than half of those

1028
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: people have called us and say, before we go on

1029
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: the multiple listings, would you like to do it? Because

1030
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: you know, with the rumor real they know how we operate,

1031
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: fair price, all that kind of stuff. We perform well,

1032
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: it's frustrating because we don't have the money to buy

1033
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: all six at once. That's always the case. It used

1034
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: to be like there's two and there's like four. I'm

1035
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: probably about five or six years ago. Now there's probably five, six,

1036
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: seven properties any given time, any morning, I can come

1037
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: in and see which ones are there. It's just a

1038
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: matter of you know, you do something like the pan

1039
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,879
Speaker 1: of the two crow, and you gotta at a rabbit

1040
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: going through the snake, and you've gotta get that digested

1041
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: before you can go eat some more rabbits. Right, that's

1042
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: bad analogy, but it's uh. It makes us. It makes

1043
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: us feel it's hard to you can't move and just

1044
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: go wow, I'd love to be able to do this.

1045
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: And what happens is we eventually we lose those two

1046
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: other buyers. Generally someone will buy it and plow it

1047
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: up for farming or another reason we lose properties actually

1048
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: is we're in a we're in a bit of a

1049
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: buying that other people don't have to deal with. We're

1050
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: a nonprofit. We're audited every year, so it kind of

1051
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: looks like this room. People have never seen before, come

1052
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: into the table, open up their laptop, except they have

1053
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: white shirts and ties on, and they're the auditors, and

1054
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: they audited every move we make, and they tear our

1055
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: books apart, and I see where we got our money,

1056
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 1: how we spent it, and all that kind of stuff.

1057
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 1: One thing you got to do is a nonprofit to

1058
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: spend your donor money responsibly. So if we're paying out

1059
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: of fair market value of that range, they'll soon go

1060
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 1: why are you doing that? You're just throwing money around.

1061
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: That's not responsible. You can lose your status as a nonprofit.

1062
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: You're done. You can become a four provit, which can't

1063
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: be a non profit by doing that. So we have

1064
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: to work with an a range. If we had more time,

1065
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: another podcast to show you a map of where property

1066
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: that I just would have loved to have had up

1067
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: on one ninety one by Fort Bell nap Uh, and

1068
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,479
Speaker 1: we did have the money to do it. We thought

1069
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: in the range. For instance, we get to the very

1070
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: top of the range, we call up and say we'd

1071
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: like to get this offer before somebody else gets this,

1072
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: and they go that, I'm not even gonna put that

1073
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 1: in front of the owner. We already have two offers

1074
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: well above that when we back off and they're bought

1075
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: by local ranchers, they're not by Californians to buy out

1076
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: build a ten thousand square foot house. We just lost

1077
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: one south of the two crow actually down by win It.

1078
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: It was really really perfect for us. Three ranchers bought

1079
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: it and they paid more than we're willing to pay.

1080
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: So I got a story after a story of that.

1081
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: There's a lot of painful ones that we would have

1082
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: loved to have had it some up and around Malta

1083
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: when a state legislature beat us out one day on

1084
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: a phone call on auction. We got to the top

1085
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: of what we think we could justify and we had

1086
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: to back off, and he bought it for more than

1087
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: are more than we were willing to pay. So that happens.

1088
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: There's a misnomer out there that we can pay anything

1089
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: and we're driving up prices. Absolutely not completely false. How

1090
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: often do you run into situation where a landowner um

1091
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: just doesn't want to sell it to you because they

1092
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: have an emotional connection to it being a working cattle

1093
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: ranch that fits their definition of what that looks like,

1094
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: and that their adversarial to the idea that there sort

1095
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: of legacy and work on the land would be upended,

1096
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: and they don't want to sell it to you less

1097
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: than five percent of the time. But it does happen.

1098
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: How is it articulated to you when that does happen.

1099
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: M I don't want to take the flak from my

1100
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: neighbors that I sold to the a p r um

1101
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: funny thing though it does happen where someone will say

1102
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: I'll sell it to somebody else if they sell it

1103
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: to you, that's not my fault. Yeah, yeah, not. But

1104
00:58:55,560 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: the truth is, you guys are technically running cattle right um.

1105
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: You you have properties that have um uh leases or BLM.

1106
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: In order to keep certain BLM less read you gotta

1107
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: have some working component to it. Um yeah, for the

1108
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 1: most part, you need to keep some grazing animal on

1109
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: there to maintain your allotments that are associated with your

1110
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: base property. You can rest it. The BLM allows you

1111
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: rest for two years, three years, and you can ask

1112
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: for another extension or whatever. But um yeah, we do lease,

1113
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: and we have these numbers wrong throughout whe We got

1114
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: somewhere between four thousand and five thousand cows on our

1115
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: property right now. Most of the property you're looking at

1116
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: is is leased out. UM. Part of that's a business

1117
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: decision is a very expensive project. Leasing it out is

1118
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: you you rant it until we can get there with

1119
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: our model UM to have ice and and other things.

1120
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: We lease it out and that helps our overhead costs.

1121
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: And some leases as to three years. There's some out

1122
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: there that's a big one over in Valley County that

1123
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,919
Speaker 1: was a twelve year lease. We've had about four thousand

1124
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: yearlings on that something like that. So, and that's that's

1125
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: about clarified as situation where it's land that you own

1126
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: and you're allowing a local cattle operator to graze cow

1127
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,479
Speaker 1: calf pairs or whatever to graze cattle on your land.

1128
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: And are you guys doing some uh, you know, like

1129
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: trying out some different practices as part of that lease

1130
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: UM as far as uh, do you guys write like

1131
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: a grazing management plan or anything like that right now?

1132
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: Very specifically we do, and we call it the Crazy

1133
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: Scale for Grassland Management and it has nine points on it.

1134
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: How do you want to see repairian areas? Look? How

1135
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: big we want patch sizes? Like we don't want two

1136
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: small fencing pens? Uh total amount of fense for a

1137
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: wild easy wildlife movement. So a big priority for US

1138
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: is American propiser is trying to maximize for biodiversity, not

1139
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: for livestock poundage off take. We're happy to deal with

1140
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: livestock producers, but they've got to realize our number one

1141
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: thing is we're optimizing for nature and biodiversity. So we'll say,

1142
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: if you want to lease on our place, and not

1143
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: everybody does, but most people look at and think, Okay,

1144
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 1: it's not so bad. I've changed a little bit. A

1145
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: lot of times we'll ask them to have a lower

1146
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: stocking rate than they would like to have. Take it

1147
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: right to the wall maximum they can have lower stocking rate.

1148
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: You know, it's too easy to say, but kind of

1149
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: the take half, leave half idea, leave half for wildlife,

1150
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: for the forbes and the grasses and things for prime

1151
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: learn everything else. So lighter touch on the ground with

1152
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: a few less CALCIE might like. So you've got to

1153
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: accept that. Uh. Sometimes fencing out, repairing areas, UM being

1154
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: okay with some fire now and again um having some

1155
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: natural uh water course things like less use of spreader

1156
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: dikes or no users edderdykes, and being okay with beaver

1157
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: dams and things like that. So there's these these sorts

1158
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 1: of things. They're not draconian or particularly arduous. We'll show

1159
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: them how to do it, and we give them time

1160
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: to get there. But if you don't want to do it,

1161
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: um uh within our way of operating, then yeah, well

1162
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: maybe we're not a good match. So far, we haven't

1163
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 1: any trouble, trouble leasing out, we don't have anything empty.

1164
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: We generally get six seventy phone calls like that. And

1165
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: is this a program? Um? Are you guys saying that

1166
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: this is going to get phased out over time or

1167
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: do you think long term you're gonna have um, you know,

1168
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: some chunks that are going to have some grazing long

1169
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: term or domestic cattle grazing long term. No, it's a

1170
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: good point. So I think, Um, one way to look

1171
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: at this as we're thinking about our our idea is

1172
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: down the road. And Ali Fox is a lot younger

1173
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: than me, well much more likely see this in in

1174
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: situation you have we might call a core reserve area, right,

1175
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: and that is going to be a very uh amieba

1176
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: like circuitous border. The days are over drawing a square

1177
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: on the map like Hillstone Park. The only way it's

1178
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 1: defined as who who will sell to us. We have

1179
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: no control over who sells to us, but eventually have

1180
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: this corrier that might be between three million acres three

1181
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: and a quarter million acre or something like that, and

1182
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 1: in a six county general area north and south of

1183
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: the breaks, north and south of the CMR, et cetera.

1184
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: Outside of that is a boundary. Or if you see

1185
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: the next if you think about another area outside of it,

1186
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: maybe like you think about fishing two miles offshore, go

1187
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: quite a few miles whatever it might be, forty miles

1188
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: around that whole thing, A band around that is a

1189
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: is a is all cattle. Frankly, I don't know what's

1190
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: going to be there. We don't have a control. I

1191
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 1: can't tell you with four or five years from now,

1192
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: but probably the next hundred years is going to be

1193
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: very robust cattle industry there. And then even beyond that,

1194
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 1: we believe there are wildlife areas that our Secretary of

1195
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: Materior is now talking about, corridors between us and the

1196
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain Front and corridors down the Greater Door Yellowstone

1197
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: ecosystem where elk and other critters can move back and forth.

1198
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 1: So you saw this, somebody around here is knowledgeable about

1199
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: which house bill that was. But the zinky just put

1200
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: out so that I want to take a look at

1201
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: these corridors, wildlife corridors between areas. We gotta start thinking

1202
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: about how do we make those sociologically softened so critters

1203
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: can move back and forth and these things. So three things.

1204
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: There's a core, there's a immediate surrounding area maybe thirty

1205
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: or forty miles thick. And then there's also this corridor

1206
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 1: idea that's going to these two other big ecosystems. We

1207
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: consider this a huge ecosystem of about eight million acres.

1208
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: That's where water drains into the milk or drains into

1209
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 1: the Missouri. So in the core to your question, eventually,

1210
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: over time we will uh those those property right now

1211
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: our stage with cattle on them. Over time, what's happened

1212
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 1: on White Rock, on Drive Forork, on sun Prairie, on

1213
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: Sun Prairie North, we'll turn those cattle off and we'll

1214
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: turn bison onto them. As the grazer, as a legal grazer,

1215
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: because you have to have a grazer. Llamas, sheep, goats, horses, cows,

1216
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: buy some. You gotta have something in there or you'll

1217
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 1: lose your allowments. I imagine that like you, you talked

1218
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: about your your personal interestingness and you grew up hunting. Um,

1219
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: I imagine that a good majority of the donors that

1220
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: are really paying high high dollar amounts. Do you guys

1221
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 1: are probably deeply suspicious or adversarial to hunting? Would be

1222
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: my guess, Like I know that you even a lot

1223
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: of interest from like National Geographic Society, right, and they're

1224
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: like very antagonistic to hunters, Like what what? Um? How

1225
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 1: do you how do you weigh that out? Like do

1226
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 1: they know do you talk about that you have an

1227
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: interest in hunting? And I know that hunters go on

1228
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 1: there now, But I imagine that the long plan wouldn't

1229
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: be that right that they probably don't like that idea. Donors,

1230
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: there are one that the majority that's not correct. I

1231
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: don't know. That would make are my life even harder

1232
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: to get this thing done. It would be very difficult

1233
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: that philosophical divide. So I would say there's some as

1234
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: far as people who are squeamish about it are queasy

1235
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: about it, I don't know. Somewhere between fifteen and twenty,

1236
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: I would say something like that, and where they where

1237
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: you knocked that down to about three percent that I

1238
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: don't want to hear it. I'll say, you know, people

1239
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: have been out there for eleven thousand years hunting animals.

1240
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: People have been a part of landscape. First it was

1241
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: thrusting spears. Later got the idea of at laddles. Later

1242
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,439
Speaker 1: at the got the idea of archery. That numbers sitting

1243
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: at about fifteen right now for the fashionable keeps going.

1244
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: So I think it's going to go deeper. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1245
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: well may well sixteen maybe because I think I heard

1246
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: you on one podcast listen, is it Dan Flores where

1247
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 1: you're talking with I can't remember who you're talking to?

1248
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: Was about the idea you correctly said the oldest has

1249
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: been found? And was it so the South South and

1250
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: South America? Yeah, there's older stuff out of a tex

1251
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: out of Austin, Texas. Yeah, so how do you anyway,

1252
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: So a long time ago people have been hunting, whether

1253
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: they're throwing or checking a rocket something or finally a

1254
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: fixed a stone to a spear. So people been hunting

1255
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 1: out here for a long long time, all right, So

1256
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 1: that's in ports most important thing. And uh, I hate

1257
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: to use words sustainably, So when we use that, but

1258
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: it works seemed to work. Okay, Yeah, there were some

1259
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: periods of very unsustainable hunting preper exactly. Also, it's not

1260
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 1: getting too that. But what I would say to people,

1261
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: and because this has come up a lot in the

1262
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: last seventeen years for sure, is well, why aren't you

1263
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: guys are gonna be like a park and not allow hunting, right,

1264
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 1: So look what our what our goal is first and

1265
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: foremost is extraordinarily robust wildlife populations, which do not exist

1266
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: there now. So our job is to create robust wildlife

1267
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 1: population something you'd see in the serengetti. You're gonna be

1268
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: astounded if we are successful. Give us a couple of

1269
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 1: decades to pull this off. It's a lot, a lot

1270
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 1: to do. You're gonna be astounded. So in other words,

1271
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 1: don't worry so much about the hunting. If you have

1272
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: that and you have access, or you're happy. Is it

1273
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: just a philosophical thing about hunting, or you think they'll

1274
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 1: take all the wildlife away? So I realize, okay, well,

1275
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: if you have serengetti like stuff that I can see

1276
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: and I can go view it and show my kids

1277
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 1: and my grandkids, then yeah, it all, it all can

1278
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: fit for sure. So that takes care of a lot

1279
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: of it is that people have been doing this for

1280
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: thousands of years and we're not about to let hunters

1281
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 1: knock back and not get back until there's no we're

1282
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 1: not gonna kill everything, right. And I tell them about

1283
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: my background in it, and I understand the whole the

1284
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 1: whole sport of it and all that, and it goes

1285
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: away pretty close, like, well, I still don't like my hunting.

1286
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 1: And they might say, why do people shoot some many coyotes?

1287
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: Why do you have to shoot fifty coyotes? I can't

1288
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: explain that to you. Why why did they trap a

1289
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 1: swift fox? What did the fifth swift fox do to you?

1290
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 1: It's the size of a housecat. I don't need to

1291
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: trap that thing. I think canna eat it or nail

1292
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: it on their wall. Or I can't explain that to you.

1293
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: Why do I have to say down with a with

1294
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: a tripod and shoot three dogs at a go? What's

1295
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 1: that about? I can't explain that. Let's let's move on

1296
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: to other things. You want to give me some money

1297
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: for some land, you know? So, yeah, So there are

1298
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 1: some places where I think hunters maybe shooting themselves in

1299
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: the foot in terms of capturing the hearts and minds

1300
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: of the general public. But as far as big as

1301
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: far as as far as pure big game feel the

1302
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,560
Speaker 1: freezer kind of thing people can people can get that

1303
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 1: for the most you say robust numbers, like if you're

1304
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: going to compare it to what Yellowstone has now, Yeah,

1305
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 1: is there like the way that you guys can articulate

1306
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: that Yellowstone has three to four thousand, three to four

1307
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: thousand bison? Well, I want to be uh, let's make

1308
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 1: my crew that I work with very nervous when I

1309
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 1: started saying numbers. So because you can always argue that

1310
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: once you get a number, but bison I gets on

1311
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 1: our website, so I can say that I think we

1312
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 1: could the most importantly Yellowstone and Us, there's a bit

1313
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,599
Speaker 1: apples and oranges, because you have size, but you also

1314
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: have habitat and elevation bison from six thousand feet to

1315
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: over eight thousand feet in that habitat on that on

1316
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: the sides of that volcano or in the bowl of

1317
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,639
Speaker 1: volcano there. As you know, it's very different than where

1318
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:15,560
Speaker 1: we are att with an amazing forage and again a

1319
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: history of wildlife that yellows don't never had, or the

1320
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: rocks yellows don't like the habitat's all confined to the

1321
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 1: right parian areas. I mean, like not all, but like

1322
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of alpine timbered stuff that isn't

1323
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 1: isn't doing much good for those animals. Depends on the species.

1324
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 1: For wolverines or pretty happy to that high stuff. You know,

1325
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 1: it depends. And by the way, you have to realize

1326
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: who you're talking to, and I'm talking about just what

1327
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like when we look at like the size

1328
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: of Yellowstone, the fact that it can support you know,

1329
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,719
Speaker 1: I mean this number, this is a hotly contested number.

1330
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 1: But the fact that Yellowstone can support three to four thousand,

1331
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: knowing that some number are gonna drift out every winter. Uh,

1332
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: that I feel like an equal patch of ground out

1333
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: where you're talking about would be able to support a

1334
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 1: higher number. Uh. Scientists would say the carrying capacity for

1335
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 1: wildlife where we are is indeed higher than the exact

1336
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: same number of acres if you had three million acres

1337
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,640
Speaker 1: at Yellowstone smack in the middle of the call it

1338
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 1: there in the volcano, there in three million acres where

1339
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:19,840
Speaker 1: we were are. And but they're looking at numbers. We're

1340
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: looking at pollinators, grassland birds, all kinds of game species, predators,

1341
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: et cetera. So we're looking at the important thing is

1342
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: we think about like a coral reef. We're looking at

1343
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 1: every single thing that moves or breeze or digs or

1344
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: flies or whatever. A very small subset of our bigger

1345
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: view of wildlife orbout adversity is game animals. But they

1346
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 1: agree that you guys are known for the people's the

1347
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 1: popular understanding of what you're doing as sort of this

1348
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 1: emblematic keystone species is you're known for doing bison recovery.

1349
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:53,600
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like that's in the air, and I

1350
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 1: hope this podcast can help correct that. So help me

1351
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: with that. But can you hear me from it? Can

1352
01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 1: we talk about that for a Second's talk about bisons?

1353
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 1: So we're should I wrote who damn book about I

1354
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: read your book about it. It was quite good, by

1355
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: the way, and uh, someone starts. Someone told me it's

1356
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: funny to go pay before you go on this podcast.

1357
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 1: You gotta read this book. This book just came out.

1358
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 1: It's really important to read it. Going here another one

1359
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: and digging around look on Amazon, I saw the one.

1360
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 1: It was two thousand and six, two thou five something

1361
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 1: like that. Like I read that, where's the new one?

1362
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: This is going to be stupid if I don't read

1363
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 1: his book on bison. We got a new cookbook out

1364
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 1: that it's a very important book. But like, just okay,

1365
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 1: I'm super interested in let's talk about I can't tell

1366
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 1: you how interested I am in blackfooted ferrets everything. Okay,

1367
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 1: I am, genuinely, But just because it's it's it's a right. Yeah,

1368
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:43,680
Speaker 1: it's a big thing, and and it's a it's a

1369
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:45,639
Speaker 1: like I said in the title of my book, it's

1370
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 1: an icon. So what could lay out for me what

1371
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: it could look like in terms of that animal. I

1372
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: think what it could look like is the greatest um

1373
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: bison viewing human experience in regards to bison that anybody

1374
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 1: alive today in North America has ever experienced, far beyond Yellowstone.

1375
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 1: That's why I think you can look like. Part of

1376
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: that is numbers. We're shooting for regards to bison, a

1377
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 1: minimum of ten thousand. That's a floor to get there.

1378
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 1: That's our goal as a floor. Okay, I think it

1379
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 1: depends on the year. Of course, with Yellowstone, you could

1380
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:29,719
Speaker 1: be thirty one while over five thousand, so imagine ten thousand.

1381
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 1: But because it's the prairie is much more viewable, and

1382
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 1: because of how they they don't have to leave. They're

1383
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 1: in a bowl where we are. They're in a bowl right,

1384
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:40,560
Speaker 1: not on the top. It's a it's a convex situation.

1385
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 1: So and every time you get sun on the south

1386
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 1: side of the slopes there you open up, even thirty

1387
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 1: below zero, you still get open grass and sage brush

1388
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 1: and lots of lots of really good forage without having

1389
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 1: to pack out anywhere else and go somewhere. So I

1390
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 1: think them being able to stay, be located and stick

1391
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:00,600
Speaker 1: there is real good. We can support more numbers and

1392
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,799
Speaker 1: people Sometimes people say ten thousand mice, and that's bigger

1393
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: than anything in the lower forty eight states. Isn't that

1394
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: just gonna be kind of nuts? And I said, well,

1395
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 1: he can look at those six counties there. There's four

1396
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand cows. Four thousand cows, and those

1397
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 1: six counties were working right now. So I think you

1398
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 1: can ten thousand miss back in there. In fact, maybe

1399
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty, and you're still not getting in the way

1400
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 1: of that's a lot of cows. And in Montana there's

1401
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,680
Speaker 1: a lot more cows on that there's almost half there's

1402
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: almost a half million cows in it. Yeah, two and

1403
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 1: a half million in the whole state, roughly two point

1404
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 1: four two point six depending on the year. Last year

1405
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 1: just about two point five million cows. So yeah, Um,

1406
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,799
Speaker 1: do you have the human population in those six counties

1407
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 1: to have fun numbers to balance? Yeah? I imagine the

1408
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 1: big charismatic predators m play into this. Like you talked

1409
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 1: about an intact ecosystem. Um, you know, grizzlies are nosing

1410
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 1: their way out under the Great Plains, Um, wolves are expanding.

1411
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 1: What what what do you picture the American prairie reserves

1412
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: relationship with grizzlies and wolves would be, And what do

1413
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 1: you met, like, what are the what are sort of

1414
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 1: the the obstacles there? I picture those two species, well,

1415
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: black bears, cougars, wolves and grizzly bears. I picture them

1416
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 1: being there. And before anybody jumps on that and said,

1417
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: well they'll be bring they're they're bringing them in, we're not.

1418
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 1: We can't touch those animals. Uh, they're not going to

1419
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 1: commit any horse trailers with us or anything like that.

1420
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 1: But I've been around already. I mean you already got

1421
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 1: lions there, definitely got lions. They they suspect they got

1422
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 1: back from the little belts about they were completely extirpated.

1423
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 1: They expect they got back me and did nineteen nineties, Uh,

1424
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 1: from the little belts, but they were all gone from

1425
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 1: this particular area. And uh, we can get back to that.

1426
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 1: But most scientists I talked to, including FVP biologists, don't

1427
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 1: believe there's a viable, genetically viable population and putting out

1428
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 1: too many tags right now for it. There really really

1429
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,599
Speaker 1: need to do their bottleneck. They're too small, but could

1430
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,000
Speaker 1: be a robust population. But what I've seen is again

1431
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: we had a cabin up in what's called by Gibson

1432
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: Reservoir my dad built was cheap use material from UBC

1433
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:29,560
Speaker 1: lumber and great falls, uh pretender son Over Canyon. And

1434
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 1: when you talked about a grizzly bear in the sixties,

1435
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: it was a real anomaly. I mean, if somebody saw one,

1436
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 1: they talked, We talked about it all winter, that somebody

1437
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: saw a grizzly bear doing something or track. Well, seventies

1438
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit more, eighties, a little bit more.

1439
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 1: And now you as you know it's so full. A

1440
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: huge success story's starting to spill out onto the grasslands

1441
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: and it used to be just ten years ago. Kind

1442
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: of for a visit in the summer, just take a

1443
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: walk about and go back into the mountains. Well, now

1444
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 1: you can't go back upstream of that concentration from her

1445
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 1: habitat standpoint, and they're having young on the grasslands. So

1446
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 1: but then in my mind, I'm thinking Tiber Reservoir, shot

1447
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 1: O conradt, various other places. Now they're east of Fort

1448
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 1: Benton and now they're on this map. They just killed

1449
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:14,679
Speaker 1: two at Denton right there, and now they're by White

1450
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: Silver Springs just three weeks ago after we got one

1451
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 1: on a camera trap just a little bit west of Harlowe,

1452
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 1: Harlton right, So they are well into that red air already.

1453
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 1: And so that with us doing nothing, wolves are moving

1454
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: north also from the southwest in that direction to into

1455
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:36,599
Speaker 1: the crazies and the little belts. Now doesn't take much

1456
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:40,760
Speaker 1: to find out where they are uh expanding, So I

1457
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 1: would expect why would they not get to where we

1458
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: are because they're already on this map already doesn't take

1459
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 1: very long. Plus the habitat is fantastic. If you're an omnivore.

1460
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:53,080
Speaker 1: The brakes is terrific, and the history of bears there,

1461
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,600
Speaker 1: if you read Paul Shillary's Lewis and Clark among the

1462
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 1: grizzlies encounters every single day as they came to that area.

1463
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: They're thick, all right. So no, it's no surprise. It's

1464
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 1: not that much of a stretch to figure out why

1465
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: what grizzies want to be here, because that's where they

1466
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 1: were all the time anyway. So what I what I think,

1467
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta make it okay, And back to

1468
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 1: the frocky mountain front is now. I go back up

1469
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 1: there and I know ranchers who we used to knock

1470
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:18,559
Speaker 1: on the doors when I was a little kid. Now

1471
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: I'm sixty, but I still remember that area. And those

1472
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 1: ranchers are like, yeah, we see them. Don't have that

1473
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 1: much of a problem with them. They don't slaughter my cows,

1474
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 1: and we've learned to live with them. There's a couple

1475
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 1: of adjustments you gotta make. But they're not yelling for

1476
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: f TOVP to come kill all these bears. They don't

1477
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: belong here. They're like great white sharks or something. Take

1478
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 1: them away. Uh, it's become normalized. So to your point, Steve,

1479
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 1: how do I What do I see is that over

1480
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 1: the next ten or fifteen years there'll be a lot

1481
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: of anxiety because they've been gone for a long time,

1482
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: and then that front edge, that leading edge of the

1483
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 1: wolves of the bears will be People are are looking

1484
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:56,679
Speaker 1: for how do we live with them? F tovps starting

1485
01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:00,680
Speaker 1: to do uh seminars, evening seminars in Stanford and Dent

1486
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 1: and other places saying you live in bear country. Now

1487
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 1: here's what we've learned looking two miles to the west

1488
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 1: about how to live with them. You kind of got

1489
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 1: to get ready for this. We don't have the money

1490
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 1: to helicopter every single bearer back to the front. I

1491
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 1: ain't gonna work anymore. Um. So, you know, for a while,

1492
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 1: Wyoming was spending for every grizzly bearon Wyoming, even though

1493
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 1: they were federally protected species. Every grizzly bearon Wyoming, Wyoming

1494
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:29,840
Speaker 1: was spending over half on each baron at state that

1495
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 1: when Idaho spends per kid in public school expensive Yeah,

1496
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 1: I think if and if you're a hunter, and you

1497
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 1: won't have to be p to spend money on things

1498
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 1: you want opening habitat things like that helicopter rides for

1499
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: one animal time is taking money away from you getting

1500
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 1: on more land and more social change stuff and getting

1501
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 1: public access and uh, you know, so it's a it's

1502
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: a public they don't want to do it either. So

1503
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 1: what I see is them being there is going to

1504
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:58,840
Speaker 1: take a long time, but I think it will get

1505
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:02,240
Speaker 1: normalized exactly how we've seen it in Montana two d

1506
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 1: miles to the west. Very normalized, no big deal. Yeah.

1507
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 1: A thing that happens right now is when a grizzly

1508
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 1: does strike out and oftentimes one a mountain lion strikes

1509
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 1: out into a new country. Um, they get in trouble

1510
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,759
Speaker 1: and then they die. I mean they get in trouble

1511
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 1: on the highway getting hit by a car, or they

1512
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:23,560
Speaker 1: get in trouble with just coming up against that the

1513
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 1: human wildlife interface, and they kill something or turn up

1514
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 1: on someone's doorstep like that's usually the end of the

1515
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:35,440
Speaker 1: story because they're going into areas where conflict. The opportunity

1516
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:37,720
Speaker 1: for conflict is rich, especially with an animal doesn't have

1517
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 1: a set core home range that it knows well. He's

1518
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:42,839
Speaker 1: seeing it for the first time too, and they stumble

1519
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 1: into trouble. I think that by if you were to

1520
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 1: create this big block of habitat were they were welcome

1521
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,840
Speaker 1: or presented with a place to live, that were they

1522
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:59,560
Speaker 1: were less likely to come up against that wall, the

1523
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 1: very hard wall of civilization. I think that that would

1524
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:08,799
Speaker 1: probably aid in there hanging on and perhaps creating breeding

1525
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 1: pairs and more. You know, static animals, right, they had

1526
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: like a spot where they could live, So I mean

1527
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 1: it's definitely something that could assist in the expansion recovery

1528
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: of the species, whether or not you took an active

1529
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 1: roll in that or not, just by creating the habitat. Right,

1530
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 1: our role is to create habitat so that everything can

1531
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 1: be there, not to drag it all in we did

1532
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 1: with bison. Is the only way we get them there

1533
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 1: from wind Cave National Park in South Dakota and from

1534
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 1: from Elk Island, Canada. The only way to do it

1535
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 1: is trucks and trailers everything in the beginning, Um, we

1536
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 1: don't need to import anymore. But and uh, swift fox,

1537
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: you actually have to put them in a little cage

1538
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 1: and bring them down so they don't get hit across

1539
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 1: the highway and let them out somewhere. Other than that

1540
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 1: everything gets there on its own, like Sugers did Cougar. Well,

1541
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 1: let's go back in this period of time. You guys

1542
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:08,400
Speaker 1: know this. You watched I'm sure you've watched fps movie

1543
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 1: Back from the Brink and read the books and what

1544
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 1: happened out here or every every big horn, every elk,

1545
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 1: every grizly bear, every wolf, everybodyson was completely wiped out

1546
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:21,639
Speaker 1: right in this area. There wasn't one left. The elk

1547
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:25,719
Speaker 1: came back in ranching trucks with FDVP in the nineteen fifties,

1548
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 1: so they were brought back right the Rocky Mountain sheepy.

1549
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: I heard you're talking with Garrett and those guys from

1550
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 1: the Sheep Foundation. They brought those back I think from

1551
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 1: Castle Reef and the Rockies Uh to put them back

1552
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:39,800
Speaker 1: in the brakes in like early nineteen sixties or something

1553
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: like that, late nineteen fifties. So a lot of stuff

1554
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 1: has been brought back. I think we're pretty much the

1555
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,640
Speaker 1: end of truck and stuff in and now it's just

1556
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,479
Speaker 1: letting populations grow. The predators will get there on their own.

1557
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: And you can tell every year that's the movements are happening.

1558
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 1: It's it's a it's a fore gone it's a historic

1559
01:22:54,439 --> 01:23:02,840
Speaker 1: inevitability they're gonna return. Um, what would let's say everything

1560
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 1: was for Let's say you don't like this. Let's say

1561
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 1: let's say everything was for sale right now that you

1562
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 1: that you guys felt like when you got a thing

1563
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 1: like to make this work, it needs to be ex big, right.

1564
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 1: Let's say it was all for sale right now and

1565
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 1: it was just market like standard market value vote a

1566
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 1: cost to buy all of it. Um, you're probably talking

1567
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:38,639
Speaker 1: about another properties between two hundred and three hundred million

1568
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:43,599
Speaker 1: dollars roughly maybe a little more time value of money.

1569
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 1: You have to put a qualifier on there. How much

1570
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 1: time do we get to buy it? If it's all

1571
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 1: available it's all for sale, If we buy it over

1572
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,200
Speaker 1: fifteen years, gonna cost more. Cut the time value of

1573
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 1: money and property out there goes up about three percent

1574
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:58,560
Speaker 1: sometimes four percent a year. The longer you wait, the

1575
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 1: much much more expensive. Yet so but that amount of

1576
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: money would push this landscape piece up to milk done million,

1577
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:13,839
Speaker 1: four million acres because of the public land leverage aspect

1578
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: of it. So yeah, here's how we we often say.

1579
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:20,640
Speaker 1: People say, well, you know, one of the reasons it's

1580
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:23,800
Speaker 1: hard to do these projects they're so darn expensive. That's

1581
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 1: why the government got out of the business, etcetera. But

1582
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 1: we think about this way, this entire project, everything, all

1583
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 1: the management, all the remodeling costs. There's a lot of

1584
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 1: work being done out there, are people doing it right

1585
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 1: now today while I'm sitting here in this warm office.

1586
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 1: Is UM purchasing the land, all the remodeling and the

1587
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:45,240
Speaker 1: operational costs in a very large endowment which will keep

1588
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:47,559
Speaker 1: it going forever, like a university endowment, so you don't

1589
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 1: have to have the vagaries of administrations. And like Yellowstone

1590
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 1: has million dollar maintenance backlog right now, we want to

1591
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: avoid that. So endowment's maked into that entire thing. All right,

1592
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 1: about seven a hundred million dollars that's the price of

1593
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 1: the project. Well that's that's that's a lot of money.

1594
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: Well think about it this way. I don't know if

1595
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 1: any of you sports fans but watch football or something

1596
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 1: like that. Not at all used to be. So the Raiders,

1597
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:18,679
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Raiders, you know, are the Oakland. They're gonna

1598
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 1: move to Las Vegas. So they just gotta gotta build

1599
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,080
Speaker 1: a stadium, right, So the prices stadium at one point

1600
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:26,760
Speaker 1: eight billion dollars. Lanta Falcons just did one just before

1601
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,919
Speaker 1: the last Super Bowl one point six billion. Dallas Cowboys

1602
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:33,919
Speaker 1: just did one, one point two billion, Minnesota Vikings, etcetera, etcetera.

1603
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 1: We built up a new football stadium almost every year

1604
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,360
Speaker 1: in this country, just like that, from the idea to

1605
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 1: the paint's dry. You're playing games three years average one

1606
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:47,320
Speaker 1: and a half billion dollars. So for the biggest reserve

1607
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 1: ever created the United States, a three and a half

1608
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:51,639
Speaker 1: million acres, a million acres bigger than nell Stone Park,

1609
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 1: less than half the cost of one new football And

1610
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 1: that's a stadium. I'm interested in going to hot dogs.

1611
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:03,320
Speaker 1: You pay some games. I'm just saying, where the heck

1612
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:05,320
Speaker 1: are you gonna get that money? You say, if you've

1613
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:09,040
Speaker 1: got a good idea, money doesn't exactly fall out of

1614
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 1: the sky. But you can tell just by that sports story.

1615
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 1: Entertainment venues, performing arts centers, operas, wings of hospitals are

1616
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:20,600
Speaker 1: regularly in the six eight million dollars. Just like that.

1617
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:24,479
Speaker 1: Martin Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos are always losing that amount

1618
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:28,599
Speaker 1: of money today during losing that amount of money today,

1619
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 1: and value during fluctuations in the stock market. Right, So,

1620
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways to make it seem approachable,

1621
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 1: but it's still a bunch of money. Yeah. Yeah, So

1622
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 1: our our fundraising crew, our fundraising crew, if they could

1623
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:43,240
Speaker 1: call in, they'd say, but tell them that's not easy

1624
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:48,120
Speaker 1: and it's not easy to raise that. Um, it's a

1625
01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 1: lot easier raising money for a football stadium or anything else.

1626
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 1: Because people look at it as a big economic driver.

1627
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 1: It doesn't have. It doesn't have a big footprint. Well,

1628
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: it's also you have a village, you have it's a

1629
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 1: tribal thing. Okay, I'm I, I have a I have

1630
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:07,360
Speaker 1: my Packers T shirt on. Yeah, we need this much money?

1631
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 1: Where where can I send in my ten bucks or

1632
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,640
Speaker 1: whatever else it is, so we don't have in this

1633
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 1: kind of situation where a lot of things around the

1634
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 1: world I work with Geographic. I get back to the

1635
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 1: hunting idea. I think it's not this nuance. They're not

1636
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,679
Speaker 1: as I can tell, they're actually into market hunting, including

1637
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:27,679
Speaker 1: the chief scientist Jonathan Bailey. Uh So, no, when National

1638
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 1: Geographic let's go back to that in a second. But

1639
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:32,640
Speaker 1: I think one thing that's hard about conservation I'd like

1640
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,599
Speaker 1: to get onto. Actually, while hunters, I think are blowing

1641
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 1: a huge opportunity to make things better in Montana is

1642
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:41,720
Speaker 1: people don't get organized. There's no sense of tribe or

1643
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 1: work together. So you have a few tribes, you have

1644
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 1: ducks unlimited, you have Rocky Mount out Foundation, Deer Foundation,

1645
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:51,040
Speaker 1: back country hunters and anglers, but not enough for critical mass.

1646
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 1: Hunters could not pull off a fundraising thing to build

1647
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:57,679
Speaker 1: the stadium. And hunters are not organized enough to actually

1648
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:01,680
Speaker 1: make big time gutsy conservation happen because they don't want

1649
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 1: to be a part of a big don't want to

1650
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 1: be a part of a bigger tribe like a Packers

1651
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 1: fans or Atlanta fans. And you get things done in numbers.

1652
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:11,639
Speaker 1: You get things done with gusto if you pull together numbers.

1653
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 1: So we have to go beyond Montana to build this

1654
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 1: thing because everyone's sitting back waiting for us to be

1655
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 1: done and say you've done yet, Can I go in

1656
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:20,880
Speaker 1: and shoot something? It's kind of irritating. Yeah. But one

1657
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:22,680
Speaker 1: of the things people say is they say that you

1658
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:26,519
Speaker 1: won't guarantee hunting access and perpetuity. I don't even know

1659
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:27,880
Speaker 1: what the hell that means, because I don't know what

1660
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:30,840
Speaker 1: who has made that guarantee I mean, like, I don't

1661
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:33,519
Speaker 1: know any private ranchers that have made hunting access a

1662
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:36,560
Speaker 1: guarantee and perpetuity for how they would go about doing that.

1663
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:40,560
Speaker 1: But that's a criticism. Well, I think, yeah, the criticism.

1664
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,519
Speaker 1: But here's a couple of things on again, I don't

1665
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 1: even know what, Like I said, I don't even know

1666
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 1: what that looks like, how one would draft up a

1667
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:49,519
Speaker 1: guarantee of hunting access and perpetuity. But but it's the

1668
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:52,599
Speaker 1: thing people say, and there's suspicions that what will happen

1669
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:55,040
Speaker 1: is you know all this. I'm just telling you what

1670
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,760
Speaker 1: I hear out walking around on the streets right here too.

1671
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 1: The suspicion is what you're going to do, because you're

1672
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 1: gonna do this, and then you're gonna be like, ha, suckers,

1673
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:06,840
Speaker 1: it's a park, right, That's what That's the accusation I've

1674
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 1: heard most frequently leveled at this is that, I mean,

1675
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 1: it has been mixed up in the National Park. I mean,

1676
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:16,639
Speaker 1: just having that that phrase in there has complicated this enormously,

1677
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 1: I imagine, or if you don't even get there. To

1678
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 1: go back to the first part of this conversation, right,

1679
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:29,519
Speaker 1: you got private land, private property rights, in Montana are strong. Um,

1680
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:32,880
Speaker 1: and as we already explained, you got private land that

1681
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:37,439
Speaker 1: is the key to locking up or unlocking a bunch

1682
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:40,640
Speaker 1: of public land. And what is going to guarantee that

1683
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 1: you guys just don't exercise private property rights that everybody

1684
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: else does and says, yeah, you know what, Actually we're

1685
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:49,559
Speaker 1: not gonna lay on today because all of that land

1686
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:55,760
Speaker 1: is hunt Like whether the apre are never existed, all

1687
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:59,040
Speaker 1: that land was accessible to hunting. So like you had

1688
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:01,640
Speaker 1: ranchers that their families were hunting, people were out hunting it.

1689
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 1: So and also relative to you gotta also understand like

1690
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 1: the power of the relative perspective. Well, Lewis and Clark

1691
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:13,960
Speaker 1: saw that there are many explanations for why they saw

1692
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:17,080
Speaker 1: the Abunce wildlife they did and what George Catlin saw there. Um,

1693
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 1: granted it's not anywhere near that now, but relative to

1694
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 1: what people are experiencing elsewhere, you're here shifting paradigm syndrome,

1695
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:35,400
Speaker 1: shifting baselines. Yeah, okay, that is still the land of

1696
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:38,479
Speaker 1: milk and honey. Okay, remains relative to everything else that

1697
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:43,240
Speaker 1: people are seeing. That remains like this great wildlife haven.

1698
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:47,679
Speaker 1: So from it, like nothing, you have a struggle hunting.

1699
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 1: Understand the perspective I hear from people. The perspective is

1700
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty great, it's all open to hunting. Um, why

1701
01:30:56,320 --> 01:31:01,839
Speaker 1: would I take the risk of removing millions of acres

1702
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:04,800
Speaker 1: of huntable land from hunting? Was because people are just

1703
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:08,320
Speaker 1: like really suspicious about the long term plan, that's all.

1704
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 1: And I don't even know. Like when I have I

1705
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 1: always say, dude, I don't know. I'd like to talk

1706
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 1: to that guy. All right, Well, I think the shifting

1707
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 1: baseline thing is very interesting to me. Um on two things.

1708
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,280
Speaker 1: One is the amount of wildlife that used to be

1709
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 1: out there, so it's it's kind of bit frustrating. Sometimes

1710
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:33,200
Speaker 1: saddens me that people go out there and see what's

1711
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:35,439
Speaker 1: out there now and they think it's good. I don't

1712
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:38,960
Speaker 1: think it's good. I think there can be a lot more.

1713
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 1: And I've covered that country a lot of times and

1714
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:46,040
Speaker 1: airplanes all kinds of aircraft on foot twice now. I've

1715
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:49,760
Speaker 1: walked five miles the entire length of that map west

1716
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 1: to east, biked it on my mountain bike. I've been

1717
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:55,560
Speaker 1: out there hundreds of times, and I was raised to

1718
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:58,559
Speaker 1: look for game. I've absolutely trained to do that as

1719
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 1: a kid right, and a lot of our folks who

1720
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:04,960
Speaker 1: are with a pr big game hunters, and you go

1721
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:07,680
Speaker 1: out there, you go. It's it is really unbelievable. This

1722
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 1: is empty, is absolutely empty. I've had folks from fish

1723
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 1: waving parks uh in aircraft flying back and forth, fly

1724
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 1: a hundred miles, go anything. They said, I can go

1725
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:21,080
Speaker 1: anywhere I want. So they're pilot, fly around, U l

1726
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:24,360
Speaker 1: bend whatever. Seeing in the elk yet nope, go south

1727
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:27,720
Speaker 1: the river twenty more miles seen elk yet, nope, go

1728
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 1: a little further anywhere seeing an elk? Not one? And

1729
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: this is a hundred miles slow and slow, or walking

1730
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:36,960
Speaker 1: with us five miles one time. The last time we

1731
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:38,880
Speaker 1: did it, a hundred eighty five miles. We didn't see

1732
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:41,719
Speaker 1: one elk in the you know, in the nine period,

1733
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 1: and you hear Lewis and Clark whoever else coming up.

1734
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:47,559
Speaker 1: They didn't even start hunting until four o'clock in the afternoon,

1735
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:49,240
Speaker 1: and they got done work and they got enough elk

1736
01:32:49,320 --> 01:32:52,640
Speaker 1: to feed forty people every night. If you tried to

1737
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:56,920
Speaker 1: walk upstream and started elk hunting, imagine just every night

1738
01:32:57,000 --> 01:32:59,559
Speaker 1: your job, two of you, two guys to go out

1739
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 1: and get elk feast forty people. Uh could you do that?

1740
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:05,680
Speaker 1: You have some pretty hungry people in the first three days. Right,

1741
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 1: It's just not the same. So I think one baseline

1742
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:12,040
Speaker 1: that shifted. I think we have an amnesia about what

1743
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:14,879
Speaker 1: used to be there. How do you deal with that amnesia?

1744
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 1: It's a big thing, and there's no one book would

1745
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:19,560
Speaker 1: be nice. But I brought about nine books here that

1746
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 1: you read and you have to take bits and pieces

1747
01:33:21,200 --> 01:33:23,120
Speaker 1: from each one and piece the one together and realized

1748
01:33:23,160 --> 01:33:25,280
Speaker 1: it spans fifty years. They never met each other. They're

1749
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:28,400
Speaker 1: all saying the same thing. That's an interesting cross referencing

1750
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 1: the other shifting baseline. You're all pretty very young that

1751
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 1: I'm looking around the five of you. But in the

1752
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:39,360
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, it was a different experience. The baseline

1753
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:41,640
Speaker 1: of walking up to a ranch was like, yeah, go

1754
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 1: ahead in the Deerborn even if somebody who owned the

1755
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:46,760
Speaker 1: deer born in, which they did there in California in

1756
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 1: the late sixties, we calmed down there. My dad found

1757
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 1: out who it was, Gary Cooper's old ranch and Tom

1758
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 1: Mix and we got to hunt mule there. Down there

1759
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:56,960
Speaker 1: is just great or we go want to hunt elk

1760
01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:00,479
Speaker 1: or whatever else. It was most likely nless you got

1761
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:03,960
Speaker 1: somebody really crabby. Oh yeah, how I'm gonna be here? Well,

1762
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 1: if we can put our camp over there, just a

1763
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:07,000
Speaker 1: couple of days, got a lot of the year, Is

1764
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:09,280
Speaker 1: that okay? Yeah, it's all right. My dad got really good.

1765
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:12,000
Speaker 1: It was either George Dickle or old Crow. And they

1766
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:14,800
Speaker 1: bring a fifth and you're in. And I got a

1767
01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 1: whole bunch of brownies because the lady was very nice

1768
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:18,640
Speaker 1: to me, a little kid. Look, I try to look

1769
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:23,640
Speaker 1: really cold. So another baseline is you guys feel like

1770
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,080
Speaker 1: you're locked out because the attitude of change. Now you

1771
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:28,600
Speaker 1: knocked on the door and they say no, or hell no,

1772
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:32,519
Speaker 1: go away, private property, don't bother me, or sorry, it's

1773
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:35,320
Speaker 1: least out. That was not a factor. So you've got

1774
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:38,280
Speaker 1: a baseline now where private property very unlikely you're going

1775
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: to get on it. Somebody's gotten to it before me

1776
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:44,720
Speaker 1: an absentee landowner, a grouty landowner, or a hunt another

1777
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:46,880
Speaker 1: hunter that's least it out. That's not that's not what

1778
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:49,280
Speaker 1: I found is normal. So taking it back to normal

1779
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:52,200
Speaker 1: is both wildlife populations and an a p R. Being

1780
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:55,400
Speaker 1: like by the time you get there, the fences are gone,

1781
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:59,160
Speaker 1: the keepout signs are gone, and there's a new sign

1782
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:01,840
Speaker 1: and it says welcome into American Pury Reserve. And that's

1783
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:05,200
Speaker 1: the interest to our private property. That makes sense, and

1784
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,760
Speaker 1: you'll see that if you go. I think I think

1785
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:09,479
Speaker 1: that if yeah, I think that that makes sense. I

1786
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:11,599
Speaker 1: think that that would be that that's exciting to people.

1787
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:13,680
Speaker 1: And I know like you have way a bit like

1788
01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:17,599
Speaker 1: you guys have a mission and you're driving towards the goal.

1789
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 1: And I don't expect it to be that. Um, I

1790
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 1: don't expect it to be that this is all meant

1791
01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:28,240
Speaker 1: to be in service of of humans, like you're doing

1792
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:33,960
Speaker 1: something for wildlife and humans. I have. I have my

1793
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:37,280
Speaker 1: backgrounds of psychology and sociology. I'm very interested in human beings.

1794
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:40,759
Speaker 1: And I think as we pull further away from nature,

1795
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:43,439
Speaker 1: you've probably seen Richard lose flash child in the woods,

1796
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:47,360
Speaker 1: the nature deficit disorder idea. Adults have that disorder too,

1797
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:49,640
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes it's just hard to where do

1798
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:52,880
Speaker 1: I go where something big enough for full full ecology

1799
01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:56,680
Speaker 1: is happening. Uh. My wife and I we've probably been

1800
01:35:57,240 --> 01:36:00,120
Speaker 1: more thirty seven some lot of years to get there,

1801
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,760
Speaker 1: have been to about almost forty different countries around the world.

1802
01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:05,960
Speaker 1: Were like diving. You get down on a coral reef,

1803
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:07,439
Speaker 1: you know, you feel really small, but you can we

1804
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:09,880
Speaker 1: see sharks comebine. But you get on a big coral

1805
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:12,680
Speaker 1: reef and Panama or Honduras or somewhere, and you look

1806
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:15,200
Speaker 1: at that and just go that's unbelievable. You're looking at

1807
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:17,680
Speaker 1: the entire thing, how how it all works together, the

1808
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 1: plants and the animals, the little stuff, the big stuff, everything.

1809
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:25,640
Speaker 1: And I think, unfortunately, from a trestle standpoint, what most

1810
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:28,280
Speaker 1: people think about the outdoors when they drive around, uh,

1811
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:31,679
Speaker 1: they see fences and cows or crops, which is cool.

1812
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:33,600
Speaker 1: The nothing against that. We own a beef company, so

1813
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm not against cattle, that's for sure. But I have

1814
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:43,920
Speaker 1: a statistic here. This came from Natural Natural Agricultural Service statistics.

1815
01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:51,759
Speaker 1: You guys know how many acres are in montanae million acres?

1816
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:55,280
Speaker 1: How many acres in agriculture ranching and farming on a

1817
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:59,920
Speaker 1: nine three million, fifty nine million, fifty nine million acres

1818
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:04,479
Speaker 1: at our ninety three is an egg that's of the

1819
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:08,240
Speaker 1: surface of Montana's and agriculture. So I think normally, of course,

1820
01:37:08,280 --> 01:37:10,599
Speaker 1: when you go out there and drive around. That's mostly

1821
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:12,600
Speaker 1: what you're gonna see. So I think, though there's a

1822
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:15,840
Speaker 1: there's a coral reef like thing out there, to just

1823
01:37:16,040 --> 01:37:19,120
Speaker 1: be stunned by the beauty and be stunned by the

1824
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:23,719
Speaker 1: diversity and the richness of wildlife and nature and bio diversity,

1825
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 1: just knock your socks off. I think it used to

1826
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:28,200
Speaker 1: be like that. It can be again without putting a

1827
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:32,000
Speaker 1: dent in the agricultural industry, not a dent or a

1828
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:34,639
Speaker 1: worldfold supply anything else. So that's not to me. That's

1829
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:37,439
Speaker 1: what's really exciting, and make it accessible to people. As

1830
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:40,759
Speaker 1: far as as far as saving things permanently, the answer

1831
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:43,879
Speaker 1: is yes, in due time. And you're taking a snapshot

1832
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:45,640
Speaker 1: in time. You're looking at the first third of a

1833
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:49,160
Speaker 1: really big construction project. So if I'm building a house

1834
01:37:50,080 --> 01:37:53,120
Speaker 1: and you know, the sheet rockers there and and there's

1835
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:55,880
Speaker 1: no tapers lining the sheet rockers, framers and plumbers and

1836
01:37:55,960 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 1: concrete k lock and you walk in and say where

1837
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:00,040
Speaker 1: do you want this couch? Say hang on, hang on,

1838
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:02,640
Speaker 1: it's a total mess right now. I'll give me a

1839
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:04,800
Speaker 1: couple of months and then I'll tell exactly where the

1840
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:07,760
Speaker 1: couch is going to be permanently and forever, in perpetuity

1841
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:09,160
Speaker 1: that you want to know where that couch is going

1842
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:11,439
Speaker 1: to go. I don't know yet. I haven't even stood

1843
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:13,400
Speaker 1: in the living room. The walls aren't up yet. So

1844
01:38:13,479 --> 01:38:15,799
Speaker 1: when you say, how come you're not putting permanent easements

1845
01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:19,000
Speaker 1: across your land right now, because we don't even understand

1846
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:21,920
Speaker 1: the land. It's huge. The last property we bought is

1847
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:25,320
Speaker 1: fifty two acres. That's our twenty nine one. Just to

1848
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:27,400
Speaker 1: get to know that and how the wildlife moves around.

1849
01:38:27,479 --> 01:38:29,360
Speaker 1: How do we know where to put a permanent easement?

1850
01:38:29,479 --> 01:38:33,040
Speaker 1: Right now it's in block management. Go out and enjoy it.

1851
01:38:33,479 --> 01:38:36,000
Speaker 1: Ten twelve years from now, we'll know where we put

1852
01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:40,599
Speaker 1: something that sticks forever. One of the problems of conservation easements.

1853
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 1: I hate to say, but we'd be much more likely

1854
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:46,599
Speaker 1: to put conservation easements where and I we have Montana

1855
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:48,800
Speaker 1: landry lands easements. We're already starting to do something. Nobody

1856
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:50,960
Speaker 1: knows about that, but we're starting to put things in easements.

1857
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:54,000
Speaker 1: You've got to be awfully careful. If you were able

1858
01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 1: to sit down with the easman entity every ten years

1859
01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:59,799
Speaker 1: and say, how's it working. Could we shift the footprint

1860
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:02,680
Speaker 1: of the building envelope over here, or we made a

1861
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:04,920
Speaker 1: mistake on that road. It's too close to the creek bed,

1862
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:07,400
Speaker 1: and it's really messing up the travel of this particular species.

1863
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:09,519
Speaker 1: The frontwarmer don't like at their spoots or whatever. If

1864
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:11,200
Speaker 1: we go up around this hill over here and then

1865
01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:14,800
Speaker 1: down this other side and they go, you had your chance.

1866
01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 1: Never ever, ever is that discussable ever. So when I

1867
01:39:19,080 --> 01:39:23,000
Speaker 1: come from business, nothing in nature is like that. Nature evolves,

1868
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:28,200
Speaker 1: it's adaptable, it's resilient, it's shucks and jives with new information.

1869
01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:30,880
Speaker 1: And I don't want to be trapped at this point

1870
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:34,599
Speaker 1: into something that is never discussable again. No matter if

1871
01:39:34,640 --> 01:39:38,640
Speaker 1: you made a horrible mistake, you can't change it. So

1872
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:40,680
Speaker 1: fish walking parks do the same thing. They want to

1873
01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:43,520
Speaker 1: put easements on we would like to we like FWP.

1874
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm in the block management all that right now. They

1875
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:51,080
Speaker 1: want to put rest rotation grazing on the private land.

1876
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:54,639
Speaker 1: If they do conservation easements and rest rotation grazing, even

1877
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:57,160
Speaker 1: the BOM is beginning to break open. And look at

1878
01:39:57,160 --> 01:40:00,320
Speaker 1: they have eleven experiments around the west right now taking

1879
01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: a look at the change or evolution towards something called

1880
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:09,080
Speaker 1: outcome based grazing management outcome based, so I can read

1881
01:40:09,080 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 1: to you what you want to hear. What that says.

1882
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 1: Outcome by based grazing emphasizes conservation performance, ecological, economic and

1883
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:21,280
Speaker 1: social outcomes, and cooperative management of public lands. This will

1884
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:23,960
Speaker 1: help demonstrate that permitted livestock grazing on public lands can

1885
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 1: operate under a less rigid framework than is commonly used

1886
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:30,400
Speaker 1: in order to better reach agreed upon habitat and vegetation goals,

1887
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:34,559
Speaker 1: shared conservation, stewardship of public lands while supporting you such

1888
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:37,519
Speaker 1: as livestock grazing and other things. So what they're saying

1889
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:40,280
Speaker 1: saying is, rather than forcing you to use a technique

1890
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:42,880
Speaker 1: like rest rotation grazing, we're going to force you to

1891
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:47,200
Speaker 1: nail the outcome good looking forage for you. Yes, you

1892
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:50,240
Speaker 1: can extract, it's an extracting industry. Extracts some to go

1893
01:40:50,280 --> 01:40:52,200
Speaker 1: in your cow and raise the poundage. But there's gotta

1894
01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:55,519
Speaker 1: be left for wildlife, a lot left for wildlife. Shaggy

1895
01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:59,160
Speaker 1: mosaic of habitat not grow. You know. I love the

1896
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:02,720
Speaker 1: outdome outcome outcome based grazing idea that the BM is

1897
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:05,719
Speaker 1: now spearheading. That's really cool. I think it's very smart.

1898
01:41:05,800 --> 01:41:10,120
Speaker 1: They're experimenting and adapting rather than saying rest rotation forever,

1899
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:12,720
Speaker 1: even five years from now, rest rotation at the b

1900
01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:15,840
Speaker 1: all end all no innovation possible. I don't think that's

1901
01:41:15,880 --> 01:41:17,400
Speaker 1: a good way to look. So we're gonna be pretty

1902
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:20,040
Speaker 1: slow and f VP easements if we have to put

1903
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:22,240
Speaker 1: in rest rotation. Not that we don't like the ftervup,

1904
01:41:22,479 --> 01:41:25,640
Speaker 1: but they're forcing a technique. I often use the analogy

1905
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:27,679
Speaker 1: is I like a lot of history books. I'm reading

1906
01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:32,960
Speaker 1: one right now. But ships in the in the lates undreds,

1907
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:36,519
Speaker 1: and these Spanish course airs and the privateers, they got

1908
01:41:36,600 --> 01:41:38,559
Speaker 1: these boats to chase down the big boats that were

1909
01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 1: laiden with all kinds of products, and they just they

1910
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:42,880
Speaker 1: couldn't carry as much, but they're super fast. Well they

1911
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:45,920
Speaker 1: set up the sales and everything. Uh French, I'm sorry,

1912
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:48,320
Speaker 1: French course airs, and they catch all the they catch

1913
01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:51,599
Speaker 1: these ships, and they would their ship couldn't one ship,

1914
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:53,320
Speaker 1: couldn't take at all, but they brought three. But they're

1915
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:55,800
Speaker 1: really fast, chase them down, take all their stuff and

1916
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:59,320
Speaker 1: then leave with it. And it was well known technique.

1917
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 1: And the people who are hauling stuffs, So how do

1918
01:42:02,120 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 1: you how do you beat that ship, and we could

1919
01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:07,320
Speaker 1: have said, right, there is the Spanish. The French coursairs

1920
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:11,320
Speaker 1: are so fast that that's the end of the shipping innovation.

1921
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:13,960
Speaker 1: Let's just go with those forevermore. This is what the

1922
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:18,840
Speaker 1: French nable use his coursair's sailing ships right forever. We'll

1923
01:42:18,880 --> 01:42:20,840
Speaker 1: try to run one of those in the America's Cup today,

1924
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do very well. Right, And the idea

1925
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:26,759
Speaker 1: of rest rotation being and I've talked with Alan Savory

1926
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:29,400
Speaker 1: over email. He knows about our project, likes our project,

1927
01:42:30,360 --> 01:42:33,400
Speaker 1: our rust Horn maze. Idea of rest rotation great for

1928
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:36,360
Speaker 1: the time, but there's probably gonna be given a hundred years.

1929
01:42:37,200 --> 01:42:39,680
Speaker 1: I bet it will evolve. And locking down on this

1930
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:41,880
Speaker 1: now as the best and we can quit thinking about

1931
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 1: there's no innovation necessary. I think it's the right way

1932
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:48,439
Speaker 1: to go. So we're gonna be slow on Easeman's because

1933
01:42:48,479 --> 01:42:51,920
Speaker 1: Eastman's are forever. We'll we'll protect it, but just give

1934
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:53,519
Speaker 1: us some time to get to know our land so

1935
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:55,240
Speaker 1: we know what we're doing. Let me ask you about

1936
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:57,800
Speaker 1: another manage that makes sense, It makes perfect sense. I

1937
01:42:57,840 --> 01:43:00,679
Speaker 1: want to ask about another management obstacle I could foresee

1938
01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:06,880
Speaker 1: and how you picture this um when you get the

1939
01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:09,840
Speaker 1: If you build a contiguous block and it's a lot

1940
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:13,240
Speaker 1: of mixed ownership, there's gonna be federal lands, state lands,

1941
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:18,200
Speaker 1: privately held lands, tribal lands, and block, it's gonna be

1942
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:22,760
Speaker 1: really hard to get everyone on the same page in

1943
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:26,160
Speaker 1: terms of management. Meaning there are places right now where,

1944
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:30,680
Speaker 1: for instance, like bison, what you imagine functioning as wildlife,

1945
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:35,640
Speaker 1: but in this state they fall into the domain of

1946
01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:38,960
Speaker 1: the Department of Livestock under a lot of situations. So

1947
01:43:39,640 --> 01:43:42,360
Speaker 1: you know, what is the calm? What is the conversations

1948
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:45,760
Speaker 1: you're having with federal land managers if you look toward

1949
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:48,360
Speaker 1: the future, what are the conversations where you're saying, we

1950
01:43:48,400 --> 01:43:51,559
Speaker 1: want to look like this, and we want the chunks

1951
01:43:51,640 --> 01:43:57,400
Speaker 1: that are under your administration to assist this. But it

1952
01:43:57,479 --> 01:44:01,240
Speaker 1: seems that you're gonna have these internal, very hard borders

1953
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: where management goals, management practices are anything but unified. Yeah,

1954
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:11,800
Speaker 1: it's a good concern, but I feel just the opposite.

1955
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:18,519
Speaker 1: I'm quite optimistic about being able to come to a

1956
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:23,599
Speaker 1: shared set of practices. We're never going to own the BLM.

1957
01:44:23,720 --> 01:44:25,680
Speaker 1: They own that and run that. We're never going to

1958
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:29,040
Speaker 1: manage the public's wildlife. That's FWP. I'm not going to

1959
01:44:29,120 --> 01:44:33,679
Speaker 1: own or run the state lands. But uh an example

1960
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:37,759
Speaker 1: sun prairie on your map there, that's about uh twenty

1961
01:44:39,040 --> 01:44:41,439
Speaker 1: thousand acres shrines, So you're up into a nearly forty

1962
01:44:41,479 --> 01:44:44,040
Speaker 1: square miles of land. It's big. A lot of bison

1963
01:44:44,120 --> 01:44:46,120
Speaker 1: on there. So what we have when we first got

1964
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:49,040
Speaker 1: there there was miles and miles across fencing fencing out

1965
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:51,439
Speaker 1: the state sections and the BLM pieces which is the

1966
01:44:51,520 --> 01:44:55,240
Speaker 1: light blue on that map. Dr the BLM. They go,

1967
01:44:55,320 --> 01:44:56,720
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? We said, well, this

1968
01:44:56,840 --> 01:44:58,920
Speaker 1: is different where we would like to take a cattle

1969
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:00,800
Speaker 1: off and put bison on and and we'd like you

1970
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:04,080
Speaker 1: a round grazing, and we'd like to have no interior fences.

1971
01:45:04,360 --> 01:45:06,320
Speaker 1: And we showed them lots and lots of science papers

1972
01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:12,599
Speaker 1: to about how bison can mostly rotate themselves, and um

1973
01:45:13,240 --> 01:45:16,240
Speaker 1: that we will at that time. It wasn't at that time,

1974
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:18,599
Speaker 1: it is many years ago. We said, we will. Can

1975
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:21,280
Speaker 1: you test, can you judge us on outcomes? Come down

1976
01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:23,120
Speaker 1: and take a look at the habitat after we've been

1977
01:45:23,160 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 1: there for a few years. First we asked them, what

1978
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:27,760
Speaker 1: do you want this to look like? Which sometimes a

1979
01:45:27,800 --> 01:45:30,160
Speaker 1: lot of Landers don't do. We invited the blom who said,

1980
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:31,479
Speaker 1: take a look at this. Tell us what you want

1981
01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:33,960
Speaker 1: to what you want us to look like. I'd like

1982
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:37,000
Speaker 1: this little taller. These fours are pretty, forbes are pretty

1983
01:45:37,040 --> 01:45:40,080
Speaker 1: hammered um. I'd like to have this looking like this,

1984
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:43,160
Speaker 1: et cetera. Plant diversity. Plant. Hete things like that, and

1985
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 1: some hit hard, some not so hard because they're big

1986
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:48,599
Speaker 1: in the grassland birds as they should be in different habitat.

1987
01:45:49,280 --> 01:45:51,639
Speaker 1: So we started with outcome based grazing and two thousand

1988
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:54,600
Speaker 1: and five with our first property. Eventually they said, you know,

1989
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:56,320
Speaker 1: you guys seem to know what you're doing. They let

1990
01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:58,919
Speaker 1: us take down the fences between our private and our bom.

1991
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:01,720
Speaker 1: Later the state did the same thing. We took down

1992
01:46:01,760 --> 01:46:04,840
Speaker 1: the fences between those two entities in the state and

1993
01:46:04,960 --> 01:46:08,280
Speaker 1: we have two or three state sections inside there. If

1994
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:10,320
Speaker 1: you go to Sun Prairie and Earth, I think, Steve,

1995
01:46:10,360 --> 01:46:13,400
Speaker 1: what you'll see is a example of the future. You

1996
01:46:13,479 --> 01:46:16,439
Speaker 1: go out there, you see first, you see you species,

1997
01:46:16,479 --> 01:46:19,160
Speaker 1: You see elk, and you see some We don't have

1998
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:22,639
Speaker 1: very many prong horn. They're starting to come back. Mule deer,

1999
01:46:23,360 --> 01:46:25,360
Speaker 1: a little bit of white tail not not usually on there,

2000
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:30,000
Speaker 1: and bison and those animals walk across b OM and

2001
01:46:30,080 --> 01:46:32,600
Speaker 1: then State and then private and there's no fences. They

2002
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 1: have no idea who they are. What's really cool, we

2003
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:37,160
Speaker 1: have a campground out there as full ail counters right now,

2004
01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:39,559
Speaker 1: right in the middle of sun prairie where you're looking

2005
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:42,720
Speaker 1: at the hunters. Also they know where they are, but

2006
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:44,960
Speaker 1: there's no indicate, there's no signs, and there's no fences.

2007
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 1: They walk across unimpeded, across the landscape. They're going private

2008
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:50,960
Speaker 1: to BLM to state to private. It all looks and

2009
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 1: feels the same. That's a big area that's half the

2010
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:56,720
Speaker 1: size of the entire Gallton Valley here. So that's a

2011
01:46:56,840 --> 01:47:00,680
Speaker 1: microcosm of the future. We've done it once. All I

2012
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:02,880
Speaker 1: gotta do is scale that up. It can happen. And

2013
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:05,600
Speaker 1: the agencies are particularly the on the ground people have

2014
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:08,320
Speaker 1: to vp real good to work with. We don't see

2015
01:47:08,360 --> 01:47:10,640
Speaker 1: eye to eye on everything, No way, we don't. They

2016
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:17,280
Speaker 1: don't want to move as fast as us um with

2017
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:20,360
Speaker 1: ficial walking parks. One is the oil. One is the

2018
01:47:20,400 --> 01:47:22,280
Speaker 1: need for rest rotation grazing. Do we really have to

2019
01:47:22,360 --> 01:47:25,960
Speaker 1: do that? Okay? One is necessary then amount of hunter

2020
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:29,320
Speaker 1: days if we do a conservation easement. Uh So the

2021
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:31,040
Speaker 1: ease ments we're hav a little bit difficulty right now

2022
01:47:31,080 --> 01:47:33,519
Speaker 1: because we put a conservation easement, they'll say, we want

2023
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:36,160
Speaker 1: a thousand hunter days on that piece of property. Well,

2024
01:47:36,200 --> 01:47:38,400
Speaker 1: a thousand hundred days right now is okay. But what

2025
01:47:38,520 --> 01:47:41,160
Speaker 1: if we're down to only this many big horns? How

2026
01:47:41,200 --> 01:47:44,200
Speaker 1: do we control that later on or there on our

2027
01:47:44,240 --> 01:47:46,040
Speaker 1: private property? What if it starts to get out of

2028
01:47:46,040 --> 01:47:48,040
Speaker 1: control in terms of people driving off road and things

2029
01:47:48,120 --> 01:47:52,479
Speaker 1: like that. It's, uh, this is never discussable again, right,

2030
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 1: So we're gonna go slow on that. But in terms

2031
01:47:55,160 --> 01:48:00,960
Speaker 1: of strike agreements every year, however, well, we're we inherited

2032
01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:05,920
Speaker 1: some purchase properties that already had F. TOBP. Easeman on them,

2033
01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:09,120
Speaker 1: and some of the part, some parts, some aspects of

2034
01:48:09,160 --> 01:48:14,000
Speaker 1: the Easeman's feel too draconian to us and unchangeable and undiscussable.

2035
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:16,840
Speaker 1: So we're gonna wait a little while before we do

2036
01:48:16,920 --> 01:48:19,160
Speaker 1: more until we're absolutely certain that a thousand hundred days

2037
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:22,559
Speaker 1: of the right or number seven or twelve or whatever else.

2038
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:26,519
Speaker 1: We gotta get to know the properties. So what we

2039
01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:28,560
Speaker 1: do agree on lots of things like we'd like to

2040
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:32,519
Speaker 1: have um more of certain critters prong worn whatever it

2041
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:35,640
Speaker 1: might be, and working on prong oar and studies right

2042
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:38,920
Speaker 1: now are engaged collaborating with them on the possibility of

2043
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:43,840
Speaker 1: reintroduction of possibility of re introduction of swift fox. Uh.

2044
01:48:43,880 --> 01:48:45,920
Speaker 1: They have an interest, We have an interest. It's all

2045
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:48,280
Speaker 1: about timing. Let's guy seem like an easy win because

2046
01:48:48,280 --> 01:48:50,639
Speaker 1: I can't believe there's a big anti swift fox lobby.

2047
01:48:51,479 --> 01:48:56,439
Speaker 1: You never know they might buy. They're about that big. Yeah,

2048
01:48:57,640 --> 01:49:00,360
Speaker 1: that's like pretty cuddly man. No one's gonna get pissed.

2049
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:02,240
Speaker 1: No one's because most people are never gonna know they're

2050
01:49:02,240 --> 01:49:08,360
Speaker 1: there anyway, right, And they're nocturnals maybe prairie dog shooters, Yeah,

2051
01:49:08,400 --> 01:49:10,240
Speaker 1: but they but they will tell you that there's too

2052
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:12,600
Speaker 1: many prairie dogs. They'll be glad to have the assistance.

2053
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:14,519
Speaker 1: So fox don't eat prairie dogs. They eat bugs and

2054
01:49:14,520 --> 01:49:17,360
Speaker 1: grasshoppers and stuff like. Don't need dogs. Praye dogs are

2055
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:20,439
Speaker 1: bigg than they are. We We we pounded in the

2056
01:49:20,479 --> 01:49:23,560
Speaker 1: one down in uh in Mexico that the winter. So

2057
01:49:24,120 --> 01:49:25,479
Speaker 1: I think so, I think, I think that I think

2058
01:49:25,479 --> 01:49:27,840
Speaker 1: the important thing bom the range cons the on the

2059
01:49:27,880 --> 01:49:32,639
Speaker 1: ground ft EP guys. Um uh, we're interested in for instance,

2060
01:49:32,680 --> 01:49:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, I really want to get to before you,

2061
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:35,360
Speaker 1: so don't end us till I get to this. It's

2062
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:39,360
Speaker 1: really important how I see hunters and what hunters can do. Um,

2063
01:49:39,720 --> 01:49:42,160
Speaker 1: that's putters that might trust us in our long term visions.

2064
01:49:42,200 --> 01:49:44,320
Speaker 1: Well hunters can do at the A p r H

2065
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:46,600
Speaker 1: in Montana. I think I think you know, being in

2066
01:49:46,720 --> 01:49:50,679
Speaker 1: hunting and the sixties and seventies as you know, definitely

2067
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:52,040
Speaker 1: big in the hunting member of the n r A,

2068
01:49:52,120 --> 01:49:54,360
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff is just living in hunting

2069
01:49:54,400 --> 01:49:56,920
Speaker 1: camps and sting. But I think hunters are making some

2070
01:49:57,000 --> 01:50:00,600
Speaker 1: mistakes now that are hindering were things they want to

2071
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:03,719
Speaker 1: go uh in this state, whether it's access or population

2072
01:50:03,800 --> 01:50:06,120
Speaker 1: numbers or whatever else it might be. So let me

2073
01:50:06,200 --> 01:50:07,880
Speaker 1: know when you want to get into that. So ahead,

2074
01:50:08,120 --> 01:50:09,640
Speaker 1: how much time we have? How much time we got

2075
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:11,760
Speaker 1: get time to do all that? Well, I got a

2076
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:14,920
Speaker 1: lot of questions, A lot of questions. Can we jump

2077
01:50:14,960 --> 01:50:18,400
Speaker 1: back to the relationship with f WP, So I think

2078
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:20,680
Speaker 1: we missed a big one is where he has at

2079
01:50:20,760 --> 01:50:24,200
Speaker 1: on the bison conversation right, because we got wild bison

2080
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:27,720
Speaker 1: and we got live stock. You guys have bison has

2081
01:50:27,800 --> 01:50:32,120
Speaker 1: livestock right now? Correct, and you man and you're that

2082
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:36,400
Speaker 1: there's some benefits to that, um, But long term goal

2083
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:39,800
Speaker 1: is bison has wildlife. So can you comment on like

2084
01:50:39,960 --> 01:50:43,400
Speaker 1: where I'm assuming right that that is the long term

2085
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:46,720
Speaker 1: term goal? Correct? Yeah, I as we get a lot

2086
01:50:46,720 --> 01:50:48,560
Speaker 1: of bison right now, about eight hundred or so, and

2087
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:50,200
Speaker 1: we're on a floor. We have to flatline him now

2088
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:52,320
Speaker 1: because we're waiting for our next approval of the next

2089
01:50:52,360 --> 01:50:54,559
Speaker 1: piece of property where we can go out like some prairie.

2090
01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:57,880
Speaker 1: So we're in phase going around this block again to

2091
01:50:57,960 --> 01:50:59,600
Speaker 1: where we are allowed to put bison out on the

2092
01:50:59,640 --> 01:51:01,800
Speaker 1: bl So we have to hold but that that'll take

2093
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:04,560
Speaker 1: off at some point. I can't predict when when you

2094
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:07,439
Speaker 1: get approval for our environmental assessment and we go, um,

2095
01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:10,360
Speaker 1: but I think that's one thing like earlier you hit

2096
01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:14,320
Speaker 1: on it. Well, like yeah, to satisfy um, the grazing

2097
01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:19,560
Speaker 1: piece of this BLM least we turn that over. We

2098
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:21,760
Speaker 1: turned cattle off and we turned bison on, and then

2099
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:26,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people are probably like, well, bison's wild animal, right, Yeah, Well,

2100
01:51:26,720 --> 01:51:29,920
Speaker 1: in this case you get us satisfy the least. But

2101
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:34,280
Speaker 1: turning bison has livestock onto that lease. So bison have,

2102
01:51:34,400 --> 01:51:37,760
Speaker 1: as you know, a very funny dual citizenship status in

2103
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:43,439
Speaker 1: Montana ours. There's nothing, um confusing about it. They are livestock.

2104
01:51:44,160 --> 01:51:46,479
Speaker 1: We pay a livestock fee about four dollars and twenty

2105
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:48,479
Speaker 1: cents a year on every single animal, just like you pay.

2106
01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:50,840
Speaker 1: You pay like fifty on a cow for twenty or

2107
01:51:50,840 --> 01:51:55,040
Speaker 1: whatever on a bison. Um, they are a livestock animal

2108
01:51:55,439 --> 01:51:59,280
Speaker 1: on paper, meaning you pay the BLM just as listeners understand,

2109
01:51:59,439 --> 01:52:02,559
Speaker 1: you pay the BLM a fee to be able allowed

2110
01:52:02,600 --> 01:52:05,200
Speaker 1: to run your livestock on BLM land, same way a

2111
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:08,040
Speaker 1: cattle ranchement buck sixty for a cow calf, just like

2112
01:52:08,280 --> 01:52:12,760
Speaker 1: exact same prices account, exact same price account yep. And

2113
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:14,439
Speaker 1: the other thing I was just talking about was the

2114
01:52:14,479 --> 01:52:17,120
Speaker 1: Department of Livestock fee. There's a lot of fees associated

2115
01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:20,680
Speaker 1: with having livestock to different entities, so we pay exact

2116
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:24,160
Speaker 1: same as cows. In some cases more. Department Livestock charges

2117
01:52:24,200 --> 01:52:26,120
Speaker 1: for some reason, more for a bison than for a cow.

2118
01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:31,920
Speaker 1: Uh So right now, I foresee for quite some time

2119
01:52:32,040 --> 01:52:33,639
Speaker 1: because as you take a look at trends, I want

2120
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:35,160
Speaker 1: to get back to some of that the trends. You

2121
01:52:35,200 --> 01:52:38,000
Speaker 1: look at the trend of bison on the way to

2122
01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:41,639
Speaker 1: becoming wildlife. I think it will eventually happen down the road,

2123
01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:43,880
Speaker 1: but it's not happening very fast. So I think our

2124
01:52:44,280 --> 01:52:47,000
Speaker 1: our bison are going to be livestock for quite some

2125
01:52:47,200 --> 01:52:49,800
Speaker 1: time to come on. Perfect okay with that, probably beyond

2126
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:54,320
Speaker 1: my career lifetime. I'm guessing, is there anything good? I

2127
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:56,559
Speaker 1: think the way I look at it, you know, are

2128
01:52:56,600 --> 01:52:59,800
Speaker 1: we gonna try to ram it through somehow? I think

2129
01:53:00,240 --> 01:53:01,800
Speaker 1: the way I look at it back to we started

2130
01:53:01,840 --> 01:53:04,920
Speaker 1: the podcast with um looking at females. Let's go back

2131
01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:07,840
Speaker 1: to females, and funny, Michelle just raised her hand. I

2132
01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:11,120
Speaker 1: think I look at it like women's suffrage. And it

2133
01:53:11,240 --> 01:53:13,760
Speaker 1: was in the late eighteen forties and this big meeting

2134
01:53:13,800 --> 01:53:15,320
Speaker 1: in Seneca, New York, where they all of a sudden

2135
01:53:15,320 --> 01:53:19,439
Speaker 1: they realized women should have the right to vote. Susan B.

2136
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:22,440
Speaker 1: Anthony and a bunch of other folks started different organizations

2137
01:53:22,479 --> 01:53:24,200
Speaker 1: and pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and push.

2138
01:53:24,720 --> 01:53:28,120
Speaker 1: But that that that first seminal meeting where they got

2139
01:53:28,120 --> 01:53:29,920
Speaker 1: the epiphany the women should have the right to vote

2140
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:31,800
Speaker 1: was in Lady eighteen forties and Seneca in New York.

2141
01:53:32,360 --> 01:53:34,040
Speaker 1: And you know when they got the right to vote.

2142
01:53:36,400 --> 01:53:38,519
Speaker 1: I mean, how obvious is that's when all those guys

2143
01:53:38,600 --> 01:53:41,240
Speaker 1: got together and decided to give them next Some of you, well,

2144
01:53:41,280 --> 01:53:43,760
Speaker 1: it's about time. Maybe even some of this we think

2145
01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:45,559
Speaker 1: that was a big mistake that they ever got who knows,

2146
01:53:45,600 --> 01:53:48,519
Speaker 1: but but you know that took. Think how long that

2147
01:53:48,640 --> 01:53:53,160
Speaker 1: took and how obvious that is. I think Poles keep saying,

2148
01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:55,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, a little over sixty in Montana, it's

2149
01:53:55,800 --> 01:53:58,639
Speaker 1: like to see wild bison in Montana. That's one indicator

2150
01:53:58,760 --> 01:54:01,599
Speaker 1: of a trend. They just became our national mammal. That's

2151
01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:05,799
Speaker 1: another indicator of a trend. Remember that, Uh, every animal

2152
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:08,200
Speaker 1: moves creusily bear, you just name, it, goes anywhere it

2153
01:54:08,240 --> 01:54:12,160
Speaker 1: wants in Montana except for one who's who's our national mammal?

2154
01:54:12,200 --> 01:54:14,200
Speaker 1: And city of the people in Montana. Every time you

2155
01:54:14,280 --> 01:54:17,599
Speaker 1: pull more people want to But look at women's suffrage

2156
01:54:18,439 --> 01:54:21,160
Speaker 1: seventy years to get the right to vote. After people

2157
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:22,920
Speaker 1: realize it was the right thing to do, and that

2158
01:54:23,040 --> 01:54:24,880
Speaker 1: was and a lot of people even in ninety were

2159
01:54:24,920 --> 01:54:27,880
Speaker 1: still upset that it happened. And I think bison. I

2160
01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:31,080
Speaker 1: don't know it could you know, sometimes historic inevitability, whether

2161
01:54:31,160 --> 01:54:35,280
Speaker 1: it's legalized marijuana, gay marriage, right to vote, bison and

2162
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:39,040
Speaker 1: Montana can take a long, long, long time. What waste?

2163
01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:41,120
Speaker 1: What was your question, Michelle? He kind of answered it.

2164
01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:43,760
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, beyond social tolerance and acceptability of

2165
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:47,240
Speaker 1: this animal, what other factors do you think are inhibiting

2166
01:54:47,320 --> 01:54:52,040
Speaker 1: that acceptance? I think at different times, like inn the

2167
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:54,640
Speaker 1: women's suffrage example, at different snapshots in time along that

2168
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:58,800
Speaker 1: continuum until uh, it actually occurs and you tip over

2169
01:54:58,880 --> 01:55:01,720
Speaker 1: the edge and it's there. I think at the moment

2170
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:03,160
Speaker 1: we're sitting in right now, which is kind of the

2171
01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:06,600
Speaker 1: only thing I can live with because it's today, is

2172
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:09,040
Speaker 1: lack of understanding of the animal itself because it's been

2173
01:55:09,080 --> 01:55:15,440
Speaker 1: gone for so long. So the people that are most afraid, concerned, UM, skeptical,

2174
01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:20,880
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. UM. I find the there's a correlation.

2175
01:55:21,560 --> 01:55:24,280
Speaker 1: The people that have the most vehemence against it have

2176
01:55:24,440 --> 01:55:27,720
Speaker 1: had the least experience with the animal. Our direct neighbors

2177
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:30,040
Speaker 1: who see them all the time across the fence. Here's

2178
01:55:30,080 --> 01:55:32,200
Speaker 1: our cows, and there's our bison, hundreds and hundreds of bis,

2179
01:55:32,240 --> 01:55:33,720
Speaker 1: and even watching them on the runt. When they're really

2180
01:55:33,760 --> 01:55:36,760
Speaker 1: going at it, they go, not a big deal, because

2181
01:55:36,800 --> 01:55:40,480
Speaker 1: they've been desensitized. They know us, and they know the

2182
01:55:40,520 --> 01:55:43,080
Speaker 1: bison because they see him all the time. The people

2183
01:55:43,160 --> 01:55:45,440
Speaker 1: that are most hot about it. The further your weight

2184
01:55:45,520 --> 01:55:47,720
Speaker 1: get away from our bison, the more people get upset

2185
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:50,480
Speaker 1: and start seeing those signs, those huge green signs that

2186
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:53,640
Speaker 1: say don't buffalo me. Yeah, there's all kinds of signs.

2187
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:58,080
Speaker 1: So but I ask you a question, Michelle. At the moment,

2188
01:55:58,160 --> 01:56:00,160
Speaker 1: it's just lack of understanding because it's been gone so

2189
01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:05,440
Speaker 1: long that, yeah, you also have there's like this there's

2190
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:09,960
Speaker 1: this big sort of theoretical debate about them where it's

2191
01:56:10,000 --> 01:56:13,200
Speaker 1: like clashing worldviews, but the debate will get hung up

2192
01:56:13,280 --> 01:56:17,720
Speaker 1: on there's details along the way, you know, like like

2193
01:56:17,920 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 1: with like in Yellowstone, there's kind of like we're sort

2194
01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:22,839
Speaker 1: of in this this debate about like what is this animal,

2195
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:26,240
Speaker 1: what's our relationship to it? Is it wildlife? Is it livestock?

2196
01:56:26,600 --> 01:56:29,240
Speaker 1: But then the debate gets hung up on like a

2197
01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:33,640
Speaker 1: snag like brucellosis, right, and brucellois Like this this disease,

2198
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:36,560
Speaker 1: the disease spread issue. It winds up being that you

2199
01:56:36,640 --> 01:56:41,000
Speaker 1: can avoid the big conversation about where we headed as

2200
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:45,200
Speaker 1: a people, what is that relationship with wildlife and native

2201
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:48,600
Speaker 1: flora and fauna. And you go like, well, yeah, but

2202
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, let's let's hang it up on brucellosis for

2203
01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:54,080
Speaker 1: a minute. And I think that will always there will

2204
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:58,040
Speaker 1: always be a thing of the day where the debate

2205
01:56:58,120 --> 01:57:01,640
Speaker 1: centers around that. You know, there's and you know, and

2206
01:57:02,200 --> 01:57:03,800
Speaker 1: that's probably not even issue because you guys probably have

2207
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:07,160
Speaker 1: quarantined disease free. We do. In the early two thousand's

2208
01:57:07,280 --> 01:57:08,920
Speaker 1: that was a really big one of the bruce loosis.

2209
01:57:09,040 --> 01:57:10,800
Speaker 1: But then we sat down with a lat of rancher

2210
01:57:10,840 --> 01:57:13,040
Speaker 1: groups sometimes you know, fifty at a time and circle

2211
01:57:13,080 --> 01:57:16,600
Speaker 1: of chairs and Second Creek Hall and Phillips County and

2212
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:18,800
Speaker 1: US and they say, tell us what you're doing and

2213
01:57:19,040 --> 01:57:23,760
Speaker 1: they ask really good questions, um, and we said, here's

2214
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:27,320
Speaker 1: how we do it. We at the source when Cave

2215
01:57:27,520 --> 01:57:31,200
Speaker 1: National Park, that the time alkhala Ash. We we do

2216
01:57:31,360 --> 01:57:34,560
Speaker 1: all twenty diseases, reportable diseases about the department livestock, not

2217
01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:36,720
Speaker 1: just bruce loosis. Make sure they don't have it. As

2218
01:57:36,760 --> 01:57:40,600
Speaker 1: they load up, they get TB tuberculosis checked on both sides,

2219
01:57:40,600 --> 01:57:43,120
Speaker 1: of the border, just a law. So they have to

2220
01:57:43,160 --> 01:57:45,000
Speaker 1: be quarantined here, but it's for t b When they

2221
01:57:45,040 --> 01:57:46,640
Speaker 1: get here, they sit for a couple of months, then

2222
01:57:46,680 --> 01:57:50,280
Speaker 1: they go out onto the landscape. We also do testing,

2223
01:57:51,320 --> 01:57:54,800
Speaker 1: random testing, knock them down with tranquilizer, darts, take care

2224
01:57:54,840 --> 01:57:56,680
Speaker 1: and blood samples, send that in so we get a

2225
01:57:56,720 --> 01:58:00,040
Speaker 1: report every year how the herd health is doing. A

2226
01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:03,000
Speaker 1: lot of people don't test that much. Uh so, and

2227
01:58:03,080 --> 01:58:05,920
Speaker 1: those tests are available to anybody who wants them. Ranchers

2228
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:07,560
Speaker 1: want a hard copy, just come over. We'll give you

2229
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:09,760
Speaker 1: a hard copy. We'll show you exactly what got back.

2230
01:58:09,880 --> 01:58:13,240
Speaker 1: So completely open book and transparent on that. So the

2231
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:15,400
Speaker 1: Bruce loisis actually it pops up a little bit here

2232
01:58:15,440 --> 01:58:19,040
Speaker 1: and there, but since really after two thousand and ten,

2233
01:58:19,080 --> 01:58:21,760
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, it's really tapered off to that's gone

2234
01:58:22,040 --> 01:58:23,760
Speaker 1: for the most part. A little bit here and there,

2235
01:58:23,800 --> 01:58:28,760
Speaker 1: but mostly it's gone. And now the the idea of

2236
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:31,120
Speaker 1: wild bison and what they will do to us and

2237
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:34,640
Speaker 1: damaging property, and that's say like then it becomes you

2238
01:58:34,680 --> 01:58:37,120
Speaker 1: get my point, there will always be another thing, and

2239
01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:40,320
Speaker 1: so then it's like, well the integrity offenses, Yeah, that's

2240
01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:42,720
Speaker 1: really what's at issue for me is the integrity offenses.

2241
01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:45,880
Speaker 1: And now we'll talk about that for a long time.

2242
01:58:46,040 --> 01:58:48,400
Speaker 1: Bison crash are you know bison crash fenches and we'll

2243
01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:50,760
Speaker 1: say fish wealving parks one of the best things they've done. First,

2244
01:58:50,800 --> 01:58:53,360
Speaker 1: a lot of good things they do. It's a good organization.

2245
01:58:53,400 --> 01:58:55,720
Speaker 1: They helped us design the most wildlife friendly of fence

2246
01:58:55,760 --> 01:58:58,640
Speaker 1: we could possibly imagine wildlife and people friendly fence. So

2247
01:58:58,720 --> 01:59:00,440
Speaker 1: it's forty four inches at the top up so i'll

2248
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:02,760
Speaker 1: can sail over. We've got a lot of cameras that

2249
01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:05,800
Speaker 1: show elk sailing over prong horn underneath eighteen inches off

2250
01:59:05,800 --> 01:59:07,240
Speaker 1: the deck, off the bottom, and so the prong warm

2251
01:59:07,280 --> 01:59:08,960
Speaker 1: can hit it at some pretty good speed. They don't

2252
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:10,160
Speaker 1: have to go back and forth and back and forth.

2253
01:59:10,880 --> 01:59:12,840
Speaker 1: And then there's one hot wire. Bison don't like that

2254
01:59:12,920 --> 01:59:16,160
Speaker 1: hot wire all solar paneled or it's all solar powered

2255
01:59:16,200 --> 01:59:18,640
Speaker 1: and one on a quarter mile increments so the whole

2256
01:59:18,640 --> 01:59:21,760
Speaker 1: fans doesn't go down. But you watch wildlife, we want

2257
01:59:21,800 --> 01:59:24,200
Speaker 1: to make it like gortex sort of. All wildlife can

2258
01:59:24,240 --> 01:59:26,480
Speaker 1: go back and forth. Better stop the bison. That's a trick.

2259
01:59:26,840 --> 01:59:29,440
Speaker 1: That is a trick as amazing to watch these cameras

2260
01:59:29,480 --> 01:59:33,200
Speaker 1: and a five point boilock lazy as judgmental, but all

2261
01:59:33,240 --> 01:59:35,120
Speaker 1: the other up over. He sticks his head through the

2262
01:59:35,200 --> 01:59:38,600
Speaker 1: fourth and fifth wire, just jams through that wire and

2263
01:59:39,240 --> 01:59:41,080
Speaker 1: the camera shaking over the place. But he's rubbing that

2264
01:59:41,160 --> 01:59:43,760
Speaker 1: hot wire and his belly couldn't care less nothing that

2265
01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:46,240
Speaker 1: nothing bothered bother about that heat. That hot wires with

2266
01:59:46,320 --> 01:59:48,200
Speaker 1: the bison. They don't like it, so they back off,

2267
01:59:48,920 --> 01:59:51,680
Speaker 1: they stay away. So we use one hot wire to

2268
01:59:51,920 --> 01:59:53,800
Speaker 1: keep them where they are. The other thing we use

2269
01:59:54,040 --> 01:59:57,280
Speaker 1: is tons of water and amazing forage. They're happy at home.

2270
01:59:57,760 --> 02:00:00,280
Speaker 1: When you're happy at home, there's not a I sure

2271
02:00:00,320 --> 02:00:03,520
Speaker 1: to go in that direction. So yeah, some people talk

2272
02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:05,280
Speaker 1: about fences, but then we show them our fences and

2273
02:00:05,320 --> 02:00:08,120
Speaker 1: they go, wow, that actually keeps them in. And we

2274
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:11,360
Speaker 1: got more than a decade and hundreds of ice and

2275
02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:14,480
Speaker 1: experience behind us that we know what we're doing. So

2276
02:00:14,600 --> 02:00:16,680
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't have an epidemic of escape. Ees

2277
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:20,360
Speaker 1: get a lot of cows on our on our property.

2278
02:00:20,400 --> 02:00:21,880
Speaker 1: But that's how it is out there, and you call

2279
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:25,440
Speaker 1: somebody to go, I think these are your cows. Because

2280
02:00:25,480 --> 02:00:27,800
Speaker 1: the people on that side have salmon tools and you

2281
02:00:27,880 --> 02:00:30,480
Speaker 1: have angers. These are definitely black. Do you want us

2282
02:00:30,520 --> 02:00:32,040
Speaker 1: to put them in a crill and say no? Can

2283
02:00:32,080 --> 02:00:33,680
Speaker 1: you hold until next week? And that's just how it

2284
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:36,240
Speaker 1: is out there, you know, particularly bulls, they get to

2285
02:00:36,320 --> 02:00:37,840
Speaker 1: fight and push through a fence and then they start

2286
02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:40,000
Speaker 1: walking down a ditch and just going on walk about

2287
02:00:40,120 --> 02:00:46,480
Speaker 1: and everybody's pretty pretty easy going. Yeah about cows. Um,

2288
02:00:46,920 --> 02:00:51,480
Speaker 1: you had a lot of questions. Yes, I'm good, I'm done,

2289
02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:54,320
Speaker 1: all right. I mean I got questions that I still have.

2290
02:00:54,560 --> 02:00:59,280
Speaker 1: I want to talk about hunters if I don't know

2291
02:00:59,280 --> 02:01:00,320
Speaker 1: if you guys are into hun but I want to

2292
02:01:00,320 --> 02:01:02,800
Speaker 1: talk about you. I got deep Montana roots, just as

2293
02:01:02,840 --> 02:01:04,840
Speaker 1: it sounds like you do. And I was doing a

2294
02:01:04,880 --> 02:01:07,520
Speaker 1: lot of digging on you guys are gonna out Montana

2295
02:01:07,560 --> 02:01:10,040
Speaker 1: each other? Now? No, no, are you older than me?

2296
02:01:11,360 --> 02:01:17,840
Speaker 1: Um uh. But it's like a lot of the core

2297
02:01:18,120 --> 02:01:23,120
Speaker 1: arguments against APR are can kind of be summed up

2298
02:01:23,160 --> 02:01:25,880
Speaker 1: like this, right. So one thing that I got from

2299
02:01:25,960 --> 02:01:30,040
Speaker 1: multiple folks is like, oh yeah, Sean Garrity he uh,

2300
02:01:30,200 --> 02:01:34,240
Speaker 1: he's a real smooth talker. Where's tight jeans and slip

2301
02:01:34,320 --> 02:01:38,840
Speaker 1: on shoes? Okay? Um? Which I think is hilarious, right

2302
02:01:38,960 --> 02:01:44,960
Speaker 1: because every rancher in eastern Montana. They were pretty tight

2303
02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:48,480
Speaker 1: jeans and slip on shoes. They're just called cowboy boots, right, um.

2304
02:01:48,800 --> 02:01:50,560
Speaker 1: And that's how like a lot of these arguments are

2305
02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:55,280
Speaker 1: like driving up land property values. Um. But to me,

2306
02:01:56,240 --> 02:01:59,000
Speaker 1: and we talked about it a bunch and use this

2307
02:01:59,120 --> 02:02:01,760
Speaker 1: word access in the beginning of this thing. We we

2308
02:02:01,920 --> 02:02:04,839
Speaker 1: hit it pretty good. But you know, like our Secretary

2309
02:02:04,840 --> 02:02:07,480
Speaker 1: of the Interior at one point he was trying to

2310
02:02:07,600 --> 02:02:10,600
Speaker 1: hijack the word access as a place where you can

2311
02:02:10,680 --> 02:02:13,360
Speaker 1: drive your r V and hook it up to power

2312
02:02:13,440 --> 02:02:16,640
Speaker 1: and water. Right that that's not the access that you

2313
02:02:16,720 --> 02:02:21,280
Speaker 1: and your dad enjoyed on the Rocky Mountain front, Bob Marshall, Right, um,

2314
02:02:22,600 --> 02:02:27,360
Speaker 1: And so I know a lot of folks, myself included,

2315
02:02:27,440 --> 02:02:31,800
Speaker 1: is like there there's a hole here that I think

2316
02:02:32,120 --> 02:02:34,080
Speaker 1: and and I think everybody in this room is going

2317
02:02:34,120 --> 02:02:37,320
Speaker 1: to agree with you that hunters do plenty of shooting

2318
02:02:37,320 --> 02:02:43,120
Speaker 1: themselves in the foot. Um. But it's it's hard and

2319
02:02:43,200 --> 02:02:45,640
Speaker 1: we do good. We're doing better I think every year

2320
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:51,160
Speaker 1: on activating hunters around issues and getting that united voice

2321
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:53,800
Speaker 1: that I'm in full a greeance man. We need to

2322
02:02:53,880 --> 02:02:56,240
Speaker 1: get a hell of a lot better at that, um.

2323
02:02:58,080 --> 02:03:01,000
Speaker 1: But it's like, so, how is ap are going to

2324
02:03:01,080 --> 02:03:04,600
Speaker 1: define access? Right? And I had one real snide comment

2325
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:07,160
Speaker 1: where they're like, well, yeah, access might be you gotta

2326
02:03:07,240 --> 02:03:10,240
Speaker 1: go drive around in one of their lifted up sprinter

2327
02:03:10,360 --> 02:03:16,040
Speaker 1: vans and their Serengetti model, right, um. And and you know,

2328
02:03:16,120 --> 02:03:18,240
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not guarantee. I'm not gonna say anything you

2329
02:03:18,240 --> 02:03:22,640
Speaker 1: don't already know, right, but you know, if you're looking

2330
02:03:22,760 --> 02:03:26,640
Speaker 1: for more funding, like every nonprofit is is like, is

2331
02:03:26,760 --> 02:03:29,960
Speaker 1: there can you guys add something into your mission statement

2332
02:03:30,040 --> 02:03:32,320
Speaker 1: that is bulletproof and long term and says, yeah, we

2333
02:03:32,400 --> 02:03:36,640
Speaker 1: are going to guarantee access to hunters. We're gonna guarantee

2334
02:03:36,760 --> 02:03:43,240
Speaker 1: hunting long term, and that's why we're gonna swing these

2335
02:03:43,520 --> 02:03:46,840
Speaker 1: hunters over and be like more favorable long term. And

2336
02:03:48,040 --> 02:03:51,200
Speaker 1: maybe we're providing a big chunk at uh dollars for

2337
02:03:51,400 --> 02:03:56,560
Speaker 1: the fund? Is there is there some middle ground there? Okay?

2338
02:03:57,640 --> 02:03:59,879
Speaker 1: Are you guys, are you guys iron clad on allowing

2339
02:04:00,280 --> 02:04:02,200
Speaker 1: um swift box or might you change your mind about

2340
02:04:02,240 --> 02:04:05,160
Speaker 1: swift fox allowing some fox? Yeah, oh we're working hard

2341
02:04:05,160 --> 02:04:07,800
Speaker 1: to get him in there. So that's absolutely, But you

2342
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:09,400
Speaker 1: don't need to leave it open. You're gonna change your

2343
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:12,360
Speaker 1: mind about it about no, but it's not in our

2344
02:04:12,360 --> 02:04:16,960
Speaker 1: mission statement. Were all that statement though, here's the reason

2345
02:04:17,040 --> 02:04:19,800
Speaker 1: why is I think to your question, why are we

2346
02:04:19,880 --> 02:04:21,480
Speaker 1: not going to put that in the mission mission statement.

2347
02:04:21,480 --> 02:04:23,480
Speaker 1: I've looked at this statement for a long time and

2348
02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:25,640
Speaker 1: we've made it simpler and shorter. We're trying to make

2349
02:04:25,680 --> 02:04:30,480
Speaker 1: it more universal and uh so that it fits a lot,

2350
02:04:30,840 --> 02:04:32,960
Speaker 1: because if I put that in there for hunters, this

2351
02:04:33,080 --> 02:04:34,720
Speaker 1: is what is to me, that would be what a

2352
02:04:34,800 --> 02:04:38,240
Speaker 1: politician would do. I'm gonna promise this for hunters, et cetera.

2353
02:04:38,280 --> 02:04:39,600
Speaker 1: And then you go down the road I just walked

2354
02:04:39,600 --> 02:04:42,080
Speaker 1: three blocks down. Then I'm gonna promise this for snowma builders.

2355
02:04:42,520 --> 02:04:44,760
Speaker 1: They are on a promises for skydivers. Then I'm gonna

2356
02:04:44,760 --> 02:04:47,720
Speaker 1: promise this for Audubon people in bird watchers, And pretty

2357
02:04:47,760 --> 02:04:49,320
Speaker 1: soon you got yourself all tangled up in a lot

2358
02:04:49,360 --> 02:04:52,440
Speaker 1: of promises that don't match up. So I'm gonna pick

2359
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:56,480
Speaker 1: something really big, not amorphous and squishy. But you know

2360
02:04:56,560 --> 02:04:59,800
Speaker 1: the seven Points of the North American Hunting North American Conservation,

2361
02:05:00,320 --> 02:05:04,120
Speaker 1: there's seven foundation calls him the Seven Sisters. Those are

2362
02:05:04,200 --> 02:05:07,240
Speaker 1: pretty those are pretty high high level things and it

2363
02:05:07,280 --> 02:05:09,360
Speaker 1: doesn't say this and this and this and access to

2364
02:05:09,480 --> 02:05:11,840
Speaker 1: or whatever amounts it might be right, and that has

2365
02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:14,040
Speaker 1: endured for a very long time. I think you could

2366
02:05:14,080 --> 02:05:16,000
Speaker 1: use some tweaks. Have some comments about that, and there's

2367
02:05:16,040 --> 02:05:18,280
Speaker 1: tons of contradictions with it. They're not there's there's tons

2368
02:05:18,320 --> 02:05:20,680
Speaker 1: of things that exceptions. Yeah, well there's ton of things

2369
02:05:20,720 --> 02:05:23,120
Speaker 1: that aren't that we're doing that don't jive with the model.

2370
02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:26,280
Speaker 1: It's not working right, Yeah, privatization, all that kind of stuff.

2371
02:05:26,360 --> 02:05:29,400
Speaker 1: So what I want to do is try to include

2372
02:05:29,440 --> 02:05:33,160
Speaker 1: everybody and uh and uh you know we we want

2373
02:05:33,160 --> 02:05:36,440
Speaker 1: to do is include everybody in our mission statement, but

2374
02:05:36,600 --> 02:05:38,720
Speaker 1: not get screwed down so tight that we made this

2375
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:41,160
Speaker 1: promise back in two thousand seventeen to something whatever it

2376
02:05:41,240 --> 02:05:44,360
Speaker 1: might be. We'll hear people say, well, you just you

2377
02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:46,760
Speaker 1: have this in block management the two crow because this

2378
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:49,320
Speaker 1: other place over here on the p N, which is

2379
02:05:49,320 --> 02:05:52,320
Speaker 1: true where you can't hunt helk. There's no elk hunting allowed.

2380
02:05:52,880 --> 02:05:55,200
Speaker 1: The reason why is we don't have any elk on

2381
02:05:55,240 --> 02:05:58,440
Speaker 1: the p N and the populations out there are pathetic

2382
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:01,680
Speaker 1: as it is. Let us old robust populations will open

2383
02:06:01,720 --> 02:06:04,320
Speaker 1: at the elk. You can hunt mule deer, sharp tail,

2384
02:06:04,720 --> 02:06:06,760
Speaker 1: pheasants and all kinds of other stuff on the p N,

2385
02:06:06,920 --> 02:06:08,880
Speaker 1: but no elk because there isn't any. We did give

2386
02:06:08,920 --> 02:06:11,600
Speaker 1: out two big horn sheep tags on the PN because

2387
02:06:11,640 --> 02:06:14,040
Speaker 1: I have to vpace regions six four ask us to

2388
02:06:14,080 --> 02:06:17,680
Speaker 1: do that. But yeah, we're going to try to build

2389
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:20,160
Speaker 1: right now. We're trying to build robust populations. We take

2390
02:06:20,280 --> 02:06:23,240
Speaker 1: all this flax. See they lied. You can't hunt elk

2391
02:06:23,320 --> 02:06:25,280
Speaker 1: on the on the two crow there against are on

2392
02:06:25,360 --> 02:06:28,839
Speaker 1: the on the PN there against hunters. Life is nuanced.

2393
02:06:29,360 --> 02:06:31,600
Speaker 1: You have been a lot of black management properties where

2394
02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:35,560
Speaker 1: they have don't touch rules. Yeah, I hunted husant on

2395
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:38,920
Speaker 1: show in showto you know north a Shota on Solid

2396
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:41,280
Speaker 1: Road up there for pheasants on block management and you

2397
02:06:41,360 --> 02:06:43,840
Speaker 1: come on. You get to do the morning. You get

2398
02:06:43,960 --> 02:06:46,320
Speaker 1: three guns, doesn't matter how many people party. Three guns.

2399
02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:49,000
Speaker 1: You're off at noon because another crew comes in and

2400
02:06:49,160 --> 02:06:51,360
Speaker 1: Sundays only because the runners are at church. They don't

2401
02:06:51,360 --> 02:06:53,440
Speaker 1: want to there on Saturdays because it's too loud. All

2402
02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:57,120
Speaker 1: kinds of restrictions. They're not against hunting. So there's five

2403
02:06:57,160 --> 02:06:58,360
Speaker 1: of us. One of us has to leave a gun

2404
02:06:58,400 --> 02:07:00,360
Speaker 1: in the trunk truck. We just block with the ox.

2405
02:07:00,440 --> 02:07:03,240
Speaker 1: You know, you just got to adjust. But mostly what

2406
02:07:03,360 --> 02:07:06,000
Speaker 1: we get critiqued by is I want to be able

2407
02:07:06,040 --> 02:07:09,560
Speaker 1: to hunt and trap everything, or you're not in the hunters.

2408
02:07:09,840 --> 02:07:11,720
Speaker 1: I think life is not that black and white. And

2409
02:07:11,800 --> 02:07:15,400
Speaker 1: because of that black and whiteness, frankly, permeates some of

2410
02:07:15,440 --> 02:07:19,720
Speaker 1: the honey community. That's why hunting's losing some public support. Frankly,

2411
02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:23,480
Speaker 1: it's just too aggressive, too in your face to blunt,

2412
02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:26,720
Speaker 1: and nature is nuanced, and so is a big project

2413
02:07:26,800 --> 02:07:32,880
Speaker 1: like this. Okay, was was the big advice? That's it. No,

2414
02:07:33,640 --> 02:07:35,320
Speaker 1: I was just answering one of his many questions. Here

2415
02:07:35,800 --> 02:07:38,280
Speaker 1: here's the advice I think you guys could help with.

2416
02:07:38,400 --> 02:07:39,880
Speaker 1: Maybe you'll say, no, we don't want to do that.

2417
02:07:40,240 --> 02:07:43,440
Speaker 1: That's your you guys a job. So one of the

2418
02:07:43,480 --> 02:07:45,320
Speaker 1: things we get with fish five from parks and they're

2419
02:07:45,360 --> 02:07:47,080
Speaker 1: not against this, they're just going, guys were in a

2420
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:50,160
Speaker 1: buy in here. Um, some of this is region six,

2421
02:07:50,240 --> 02:07:52,640
Speaker 1: some region four, and we'll say we'd love to have

2422
02:07:52,840 --> 02:07:55,840
Speaker 1: more of this particular thing. So let's just focus on oak.

2423
02:07:56,320 --> 02:07:59,680
Speaker 1: That's not so touchy, okay, And we said there, you know,

2424
02:08:00,120 --> 02:08:02,720
Speaker 1: as best we could tell the carrying capacity from science

2425
02:08:02,720 --> 02:08:04,440
Speaker 1: standpoint out here for elk is if you have four

2426
02:08:04,800 --> 02:08:07,080
Speaker 1: fifty cows, there could be a lot of elk out

2427
02:08:07,120 --> 02:08:10,800
Speaker 1: here this whole area, whole region. The counts might be

2428
02:08:10,920 --> 02:08:13,720
Speaker 1: six or seven thousand, a little bit more elk out there,

2429
02:08:13,840 --> 02:08:16,440
Speaker 1: not much in a huge area. Again, you can spend

2430
02:08:16,480 --> 02:08:18,360
Speaker 1: an awful lot of time and I have hunting around

2431
02:08:18,840 --> 02:08:20,680
Speaker 1: any time of the year, you canna have a hard

2432
02:08:20,720 --> 02:08:25,280
Speaker 1: time find an elk. All right, So robust populations of elk,

2433
02:08:25,320 --> 02:08:27,400
Speaker 1: how do we get there? And how are quotas are

2434
02:08:27,440 --> 02:08:32,640
Speaker 1: population criteria set in the North American conservation model says

2435
02:08:32,680 --> 02:08:35,880
Speaker 1: wildlife is stept through science and we talked to people

2436
02:08:35,920 --> 02:08:40,440
Speaker 1: in the region. They go, no landowner tolerance, So it

2437
02:08:40,480 --> 02:08:42,320
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with science and carring capacity and

2438
02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:43,960
Speaker 1: where elk can be and can we fit this many

2439
02:08:44,000 --> 02:08:47,280
Speaker 1: in here? It's social science. Yeah, So like I said,

2440
02:08:47,280 --> 02:08:50,480
Speaker 1: it is social science exactly. So you go to a

2441
02:08:50,880 --> 02:08:54,120
Speaker 1: you go they say, we would like to raise quotas,

2442
02:08:54,640 --> 02:08:58,240
Speaker 1: but we get extreme pushback from a rancher and this

2443
02:08:58,280 --> 02:08:59,600
Speaker 1: is going to get onto something you can do, I

2444
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:02,760
Speaker 1: think from a ranchers saying the elk reading me out

2445
02:09:02,800 --> 02:09:06,400
Speaker 1: of house and home. Uh, you're mismanaging me. You're the

2446
02:09:06,840 --> 02:09:09,120
Speaker 1: it's the public's wildlife. It's on my place that's eating

2447
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:12,960
Speaker 1: my stuff. You're mismanaging it. Population overall, populations about you

2448
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:16,760
Speaker 1: need to go down. Those people say something to the legislature.

2449
02:09:16,840 --> 02:09:18,720
Speaker 1: Legislature says something that they have to be be commissioned.

2450
02:09:18,720 --> 02:09:20,800
Speaker 1: Commission says lower those quotas. I'm getting a lot of

2451
02:09:20,840 --> 02:09:23,080
Speaker 1: heat up here in Helena. Quotas go down. And that's

2452
02:09:23,160 --> 02:09:25,520
Speaker 1: where a lot of the underground guys are of no

2453
02:09:25,680 --> 02:09:27,520
Speaker 1: animosity towards you have to be a few folks. They're

2454
02:09:27,560 --> 02:09:31,000
Speaker 1: in a difficult bind. So imagine the scenario. I just think,

2455
02:09:31,120 --> 02:09:32,920
Speaker 1: as in Spain last year with my wife and we

2456
02:09:33,000 --> 02:09:36,280
Speaker 1: were eating this unbelievable prestido, and I had time to

2457
02:09:36,320 --> 02:09:40,120
Speaker 1: think about philosophical things. I start imagine, I know the

2458
02:09:40,160 --> 02:09:42,960
Speaker 1: front pretty well. It's where I grew up. Imagine had

2459
02:09:43,040 --> 02:09:46,200
Speaker 1: a rancher and they're ranching cows out on the front

2460
02:09:46,240 --> 02:09:49,040
Speaker 1: somewhere west of Shoto, right just in those slopes underneath castle.

2461
02:09:49,120 --> 02:09:51,520
Speaker 1: Read for sun or or saw tooth, and that a

2462
02:09:51,600 --> 02:09:54,480
Speaker 1: lot of you guys have been up there before, and uh,

2463
02:09:55,120 --> 02:09:58,280
Speaker 1: somehow they're reading something. They go, gosh, you see what

2464
02:09:58,400 --> 02:10:01,320
Speaker 1: these what purshuto selves for like a you know, per pig,

2465
02:10:01,400 --> 02:10:03,720
Speaker 1: which you make and I gotta do a feed of

2466
02:10:03,800 --> 02:10:05,760
Speaker 1: acorns and things like that. We gotta we don't get

2467
02:10:05,760 --> 02:10:08,080
Speaker 1: ourselves about three hundred hogs. Add them to our cow

2468
02:10:08,240 --> 02:10:10,880
Speaker 1: situation and as a portfolio and make a whole lot

2469
02:10:10,920 --> 02:10:12,880
Speaker 1: of money. And we can get acorns, which is what

2470
02:10:12,960 --> 02:10:15,760
Speaker 1: you feed them. We finish them on acorns from California

2471
02:10:15,800 --> 02:10:17,200
Speaker 1: is super cheap. They're trying to get rid of them.

2472
02:10:17,320 --> 02:10:19,400
Speaker 1: So they do all that, get the hogs feed of acorns,

2473
02:10:19,480 --> 02:10:21,720
Speaker 1: make these beautiful product, cut them all up, and then

2474
02:10:21,760 --> 02:10:24,320
Speaker 1: they they have to air dry or age for about

2475
02:10:24,400 --> 02:10:27,480
Speaker 1: four weeks. So they hang them in the forest on

2476
02:10:27,600 --> 02:10:30,000
Speaker 1: private lands, their private land, and they hang bake front

2477
02:10:30,040 --> 02:10:33,280
Speaker 1: shoulders and bad bat on the back quarters in the

2478
02:10:33,360 --> 02:10:36,120
Speaker 1: forest to air dry. Right, this is a rocky mound

2479
02:10:36,120 --> 02:10:39,280
Speaker 1: in front. They're hanging ham all through the forest the

2480
02:10:39,400 --> 02:10:42,480
Speaker 1: grizzly bear country, but grizzly bears are evenly distributed twenty

2481
02:10:43,400 --> 02:10:47,320
Speaker 1: thousand acres thud acres group grizzly bear terrator home range

2482
02:10:47,360 --> 02:10:50,080
Speaker 1: something like that. And thing goes pretty good for about

2483
02:10:50,120 --> 02:10:51,760
Speaker 1: a week or so. One morning they walk out and

2484
02:10:51,800 --> 02:10:54,120
Speaker 1: there's nine grizzly bears and their forest having a great

2485
02:10:54,160 --> 02:10:57,280
Speaker 1: time with those hams. All right, call up f w P.

2486
02:10:57,760 --> 02:11:00,120
Speaker 1: We've got a grizzly problem here, and they got what

2487
02:11:00,960 --> 02:11:04,360
Speaker 1: So I got nine grozzly bears eating my stuff? So well,

2488
02:11:04,400 --> 02:11:06,960
Speaker 1: do you have a fence around that? No? Why should

2489
02:11:07,000 --> 02:11:09,600
Speaker 1: I have to fence that. That's the public's wildlife. Your

2490
02:11:09,680 --> 02:11:12,600
Speaker 1: mismanager them, we need to knock down the overall population

2491
02:11:12,680 --> 02:11:15,520
Speaker 1: of bears. This is untenable for me. It's costing me

2492
02:11:15,880 --> 02:11:19,120
Speaker 1: a lot of money. All right, So you hear that

2493
02:11:19,200 --> 02:11:21,919
Speaker 1: story and go where do I fall in this equation?

2494
02:11:22,480 --> 02:11:24,400
Speaker 1: How do I think about that? Moving over to where

2495
02:11:24,440 --> 02:11:29,000
Speaker 1: we're working, you have some ranchers and they've moved into

2496
02:11:29,360 --> 02:11:32,240
Speaker 1: definitely elk habitat, kind of grizzly bear habitat elk habitat,

2497
02:11:32,920 --> 02:11:34,600
Speaker 1: and they'll get along with cows or just fine and

2498
02:11:34,640 --> 02:11:37,840
Speaker 1: all that. But they've been buying hay on the open market,

2499
02:11:37,960 --> 02:11:40,720
Speaker 1: you know, big one ton bail, one ton round mills.

2500
02:11:41,640 --> 02:11:43,720
Speaker 1: They decided to produce their own, so they plow in

2501
02:11:43,880 --> 02:11:46,880
Speaker 1: about three acres of alfalfa in the middle of native

2502
02:11:46,920 --> 02:11:49,120
Speaker 1: grassland habitat that's been out there for thousands of years

2503
02:11:49,160 --> 02:11:51,560
Speaker 1: in the middle of elk country. Elk might be evenly

2504
02:11:51,600 --> 02:11:55,320
Speaker 1: distributed all over the landscape. Long about August, you go

2505
02:11:55,520 --> 02:11:57,640
Speaker 1: just about two more weeks and alfalfa is looking great.

2506
02:11:57,680 --> 02:12:01,640
Speaker 1: It's like electric green neon out there. About two more weeks,

2507
02:12:01,640 --> 02:12:03,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut this and we lost some nice bills

2508
02:12:03,840 --> 02:12:06,240
Speaker 1: and relatively cheap except for the diesel fuel to cut

2509
02:12:06,280 --> 02:12:08,520
Speaker 1: it and roll it. And they go out there just

2510
02:12:08,680 --> 02:12:10,560
Speaker 1: two weeks before they're gonna cut it and there's three

2511
02:12:10,960 --> 02:12:13,760
Speaker 1: elk in their alf alpha field. They called ft w

2512
02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:16,600
Speaker 1: P and say they're eating me out of house and home.

2513
02:12:16,880 --> 02:12:19,720
Speaker 1: You got to lower these quotas. This is ridiculous. There's

2514
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:22,640
Speaker 1: there's way too many elk out here. And if l

2515
02:12:22,720 --> 02:12:25,160
Speaker 1: P says you got a fence around it, no, why

2516
02:12:25,200 --> 02:12:26,600
Speaker 1: why should I have to have do that as a

2517
02:12:26,680 --> 02:12:28,720
Speaker 1: cost of doing business. To have that fence around that,

2518
02:12:29,640 --> 02:12:32,360
Speaker 1: you're mismanaging the elk. And that is the crux those

2519
02:12:32,400 --> 02:12:35,960
Speaker 1: conversations actually go on. There's elk in my alf alpha fields.

2520
02:12:36,560 --> 02:12:40,560
Speaker 1: Push those animals down so that they'll leave me alone

2521
02:12:40,600 --> 02:12:43,000
Speaker 1: and stop costing me so much money. En ft VP

2522
02:12:43,080 --> 02:12:45,120
Speaker 1: would say, how about some cost share? How about we

2523
02:12:45,200 --> 02:12:46,840
Speaker 1: could help you fence that out. We can't pay for

2524
02:12:46,880 --> 02:12:48,480
Speaker 1: everything because we're kind of we don't have a much

2525
02:12:48,520 --> 02:12:51,280
Speaker 1: money right now, much budget. We can bring you some

2526
02:12:51,400 --> 02:12:53,440
Speaker 1: materials and maybe even help you a little bit, but

2527
02:12:53,560 --> 02:12:55,720
Speaker 1: you you pay for half, we'll pay for half. Why

2528
02:12:55,800 --> 02:12:58,000
Speaker 1: should I have to pay you for wildlife. It's the

2529
02:12:58,040 --> 02:13:00,720
Speaker 1: public's wildlife. You're mismanaging it. Get him out of here,

2530
02:13:01,200 --> 02:13:02,800
Speaker 1: and I want the quotas. And then he calls that

2531
02:13:02,880 --> 02:13:06,640
Speaker 1: calls the Senator to the commission back to the people

2532
02:13:07,280 --> 02:13:09,280
Speaker 1: they have to be p in Glasgow and said lower

2533
02:13:09,360 --> 02:13:11,480
Speaker 1: those quotas. And a lot of times the f W

2534
02:13:11,640 --> 02:13:13,520
Speaker 1: pill probably come in there and say, well, why don't

2535
02:13:13,560 --> 02:13:15,240
Speaker 1: you let people on there to hunt them. That's a

2536
02:13:15,280 --> 02:13:17,160
Speaker 1: pretty good way to get elk to run away is

2537
02:13:17,200 --> 02:13:18,920
Speaker 1: to let people shoot at them, at least for a

2538
02:13:19,000 --> 02:13:21,360
Speaker 1: little while. Second week August a little tough if you

2539
02:13:21,400 --> 02:13:23,040
Speaker 1: have a shoulder, seas and the backs up into that

2540
02:13:23,120 --> 02:13:25,960
Speaker 1: when they really hit things hard. Yeah, when they're keeping

2541
02:13:25,960 --> 02:13:28,520
Speaker 1: away from your haystacks and things like that. But anybody

2542
02:13:28,520 --> 02:13:31,320
Speaker 1: who might hear this story, it's a cultural thing. There's

2543
02:13:31,360 --> 02:13:33,760
Speaker 1: no right or wrong. So some people might say, well,

2544
02:13:33,840 --> 02:13:36,080
Speaker 1: Sean just said it's exactly right. That rancher with the

2545
02:13:36,080 --> 02:13:38,320
Speaker 1: grizzly bears is in a world that hurt after we

2546
02:13:38,520 --> 02:13:40,720
Speaker 1: should take care of that. Or the rancher with the

2547
02:13:40,960 --> 02:13:43,680
Speaker 1: alfalva field after should take care of that. It's exactly right.

2548
02:13:43,760 --> 02:13:47,160
Speaker 1: It's the public's wildlife being mismanaged other people. I don't know,

2549
02:13:48,160 --> 02:13:49,600
Speaker 1: you've got some of you guys, maybe I don't know

2550
02:13:49,640 --> 02:13:52,000
Speaker 1: what you're thinking, would say, you know, that is a

2551
02:13:52,080 --> 02:13:54,520
Speaker 1: cost of doing business. If you're gonna put an unnatural

2552
02:13:54,680 --> 02:13:57,080
Speaker 1: thing out in the middle of that country, be at

2553
02:13:57,160 --> 02:14:01,320
Speaker 1: Hams or bright Green alfalfa, it's your responsibility fail and

2554
02:14:01,320 --> 02:14:03,480
Speaker 1: set out because you're pulling these those elk are trailing

2555
02:14:03,520 --> 02:14:06,080
Speaker 1: from fifteen miles away to come hit your stack right,

2556
02:14:06,120 --> 02:14:08,840
Speaker 1: whether it's rolled up or veiled or whatever else. And

2557
02:14:08,920 --> 02:14:11,040
Speaker 1: after EP goes, I wish we had more money because

2558
02:14:11,800 --> 02:14:14,600
Speaker 1: when the conversation I'm in a lot of conversations the ranchers,

2559
02:14:14,680 --> 02:14:16,280
Speaker 1: it gets down it's not that they don't like yelk.

2560
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:18,400
Speaker 1: They actually like yelk. A lot of them are bow hunters.

2561
02:14:18,720 --> 02:14:20,560
Speaker 1: It's not about the species, it's about what they do

2562
02:14:20,680 --> 02:14:23,760
Speaker 1: to their operation. It's finance, which is a good news

2563
02:14:23,840 --> 02:14:25,880
Speaker 1: for I think for you guys, because if you can

2564
02:14:25,920 --> 02:14:29,120
Speaker 1: come up with more money connecting the docks here, if

2565
02:14:29,160 --> 02:14:30,400
Speaker 1: we can come up with a whole bunch more money

2566
02:14:30,960 --> 02:14:32,840
Speaker 1: and we can fence that help that rancher and fence

2567
02:14:32,880 --> 02:14:35,440
Speaker 1: out that field, they will quick complain and the f TOVP,

2568
02:14:36,000 --> 02:14:39,000
Speaker 1: the college from legislature and the commission stopped, and populations

2569
02:14:39,040 --> 02:14:41,120
Speaker 1: from go up, and you will have lots more elk

2570
02:14:41,600 --> 02:14:43,800
Speaker 1: out there, a lot more elk out there. All it

2571
02:14:43,960 --> 02:14:48,080
Speaker 1: is just finding some money. What we have found, for instance,

2572
02:14:48,200 --> 02:14:51,080
Speaker 1: this is the important thing we have found, for instance

2573
02:14:51,120 --> 02:14:53,920
Speaker 1: with our wild Sky program, where ranchers or get paid

2574
02:14:53,960 --> 02:14:58,000
Speaker 1: to be more wildlife friendly, wildlife tolerant, should say everything

2575
02:14:58,120 --> 02:15:01,160
Speaker 1: by the way, wolves, cougars, elk, whatever it might be.

2576
02:15:01,760 --> 02:15:04,200
Speaker 1: We pay them money for that, substantial money on top

2577
02:15:04,240 --> 02:15:06,000
Speaker 1: of what they sell to in the commodity market. So

2578
02:15:06,000 --> 02:15:08,960
Speaker 1: it's an extra bonus, and that money is enough to

2579
02:15:09,080 --> 02:15:11,440
Speaker 1: tip the behavior in the direction being more wildlife friendly.

2580
02:15:11,560 --> 02:15:14,360
Speaker 1: That's one example. So I think there are a number

2581
02:15:14,400 --> 02:15:17,160
Speaker 1: of things that hunters could do to conjurept some more money.

2582
02:15:17,240 --> 02:15:19,600
Speaker 1: If you want to hear them. I got six ideas

2583
02:15:19,680 --> 02:15:22,120
Speaker 1: for that. And if we can get more money into

2584
02:15:22,160 --> 02:15:25,480
Speaker 1: the game, you can get those ranchers feeling better, those

2585
02:15:25,560 --> 02:15:27,400
Speaker 1: quotas will go up and you're gonna see a lot

2586
02:15:27,480 --> 02:15:29,840
Speaker 1: in the more robust populations out there. Hit me with

2587
02:15:29,880 --> 02:15:33,320
Speaker 1: the top three. Top three. Yeah, this is ways hunters

2588
02:15:33,360 --> 02:15:38,120
Speaker 1: could get more money to create more wildlife friendly Sean

2589
02:15:38,160 --> 02:15:41,920
Speaker 1: Garretty's top three ways in which hunters could pump more

2590
02:15:42,000 --> 02:15:47,400
Speaker 1: money to make a more wildlife friendly habitat regime out

2591
02:15:47,440 --> 02:15:53,200
Speaker 1: there in the United States of America. Some wildlife equaling

2592
02:15:53,240 --> 02:15:55,040
Speaker 1: more alilive so that you can hunt it, you can

2593
02:15:55,120 --> 02:15:57,760
Speaker 1: chase it around, Yeah, and have more fun. You got

2594
02:15:57,800 --> 02:16:01,840
Speaker 1: my attention. Everybody wins the really big ones. I think

2595
02:16:02,360 --> 02:16:05,040
Speaker 1: there was the what was the what was the Act

2596
02:16:05,080 --> 02:16:10,880
Speaker 1: of nineteen six with a with Pittmanstoration Act, And all

2597
02:16:10,920 --> 02:16:15,000
Speaker 1: they did was charge on They put a tax on guns, right,

2598
02:16:15,320 --> 02:16:17,760
Speaker 1: and ammunition and ammunition, and then the one there's the

2599
02:16:17,760 --> 02:16:21,560
Speaker 1: one that followed up later on fishing equipment. If you

2600
02:16:21,680 --> 02:16:25,400
Speaker 1: actually lobbied I'm guessing back country or somebody has lobbyists

2601
02:16:25,440 --> 02:16:28,640
Speaker 1: and lobbied together in Montana and so we want to

2602
02:16:28,680 --> 02:16:30,640
Speaker 1: do something like that, we want to tax all kinds

2603
02:16:30,720 --> 02:16:32,520
Speaker 1: of stuff. Oh yeah, man, we're all over this. They

2604
02:16:32,560 --> 02:16:37,840
Speaker 1: won't do it. So the backpack tax next idea, So yeah,

2605
02:16:37,840 --> 02:16:40,240
Speaker 1: I just say that comes up constantly. We want to

2606
02:16:40,280 --> 02:16:43,800
Speaker 1: we want to actually be taxed more, be really organized,

2607
02:16:43,879 --> 02:16:45,680
Speaker 1: not just one group, but a whole a whole bunch

2608
02:16:45,680 --> 02:16:47,960
Speaker 1: of people hammer on this, hire some lobbyists until you

2609
02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:52,119
Speaker 1: finally get it through. Took three tries, I think three

2610
02:16:52,200 --> 02:16:54,320
Speaker 1: runs of the legislature to get rid of snide heepleach

2611
02:16:54,400 --> 02:16:56,680
Speaker 1: mining takes a while. You gotta stay on it, don't

2612
02:16:56,879 --> 02:16:59,320
Speaker 1: don't give up. So we were at tax backpack skis

2613
02:16:59,400 --> 02:17:01,720
Speaker 1: birding a. It meant everything because yeah, guns and am

2614
02:17:01,879 --> 02:17:06,080
Speaker 1: ar tex, the manufacturers are paying third everything. There has

2615
02:17:06,120 --> 02:17:09,640
Speaker 1: been some other proposals to like specific to a species,

2616
02:17:09,760 --> 02:17:13,080
Speaker 1: like okay, well what if we lobbied for uh an

2617
02:17:13,120 --> 02:17:17,600
Speaker 1: additional dollar specific to getting bison back on that style

2618
02:17:17,720 --> 02:17:19,640
Speaker 1: license plate? And they'll go to it. Whatever. If you

2619
02:17:19,720 --> 02:17:22,039
Speaker 1: can go up against industry and get Sinai heap leach

2620
02:17:22,120 --> 02:17:24,280
Speaker 1: mining out of Montana, you guys can do this if

2621
02:17:24,320 --> 02:17:27,840
Speaker 1: you're organized and persistent as hell. Only if you persist

2622
02:17:27,920 --> 02:17:29,440
Speaker 1: not just throw it all. We tried once to give

2623
02:17:29,440 --> 02:17:31,600
Speaker 1: it up. Do we hammer we hammerun this all the time.

2624
02:17:31,680 --> 02:17:33,560
Speaker 1: I love the idea of a backpack ta gotta do that.

2625
02:17:33,959 --> 02:17:37,880
Speaker 1: Next one is let's make a note of that. Here's

2626
02:17:37,879 --> 02:17:40,640
Speaker 1: another team. This is interesting is you got to broaden

2627
02:17:40,680 --> 02:17:43,480
Speaker 1: out and let other people help. So I know a

2628
02:17:43,560 --> 02:17:46,320
Speaker 1: lot of biology game biologist from FTVP. Of course we

2629
02:17:46,400 --> 02:17:48,440
Speaker 1: could being in the business who work with them. Uh.

2630
02:17:48,520 --> 02:17:50,920
Speaker 1: Jeff Hagner actually used to work for APR, who used

2631
02:17:50,959 --> 02:17:52,520
Speaker 1: to be ahead of Fish Walking Park. So he and

2632
02:17:52,560 --> 02:17:55,000
Speaker 1: I spent lots and lots and lots of hours on

2633
02:17:55,040 --> 02:17:58,160
Speaker 1: airplanes and cars and things like that. For him, it was,

2634
02:17:58,320 --> 02:17:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, we got a job after being with that

2635
02:18:00,000 --> 02:18:02,480
Speaker 1: TVP I talked about. He said, a lot of interesting

2636
02:18:02,480 --> 02:18:05,360
Speaker 1: antidutes every time. So why don't we raise hunting fees

2637
02:18:05,440 --> 02:18:07,560
Speaker 1: to get more money or are there other ways to

2638
02:18:07,600 --> 02:18:10,240
Speaker 1: get more money because the revenue is going down doubled

2639
02:18:10,600 --> 02:18:13,320
Speaker 1: I mean not too long ago. They doubled nonresident fees, right,

2640
02:18:13,600 --> 02:18:16,480
Speaker 1: but I mean resident. I'm talking residents. And so they

2641
02:18:16,520 --> 02:18:18,960
Speaker 1: said we can't put this wildlife stamp idea. We went

2642
02:18:19,040 --> 02:18:20,880
Speaker 1: on the road and said, how about wildlife stamp. We

2643
02:18:21,040 --> 02:18:22,640
Speaker 1: can get people that we get all these artists do

2644
02:18:22,680 --> 02:18:25,720
Speaker 1: these cool stamps, like a duck stamp church people who

2645
02:18:25,760 --> 02:18:28,320
Speaker 1: don't hunt, but they'll buy the stamps for twelve bucks

2646
02:18:28,320 --> 02:18:32,040
Speaker 1: apiece because it's done by world class artists. He said.

2647
02:18:32,080 --> 02:18:34,959
Speaker 1: Everywhere we went, particularly in Livingston, that got shouted down

2648
02:18:35,040 --> 02:18:37,600
Speaker 1: by hunters, So why would they not want that. It's

2649
02:18:37,680 --> 02:18:40,800
Speaker 1: more money to manage game and make things work better

2650
02:18:40,879 --> 02:18:43,280
Speaker 1: at all, go into game management. He said. You know

2651
02:18:43,320 --> 02:18:46,199
Speaker 1: what people said, and it was hunting guides and hunters,

2652
02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:48,720
Speaker 1: and the loudest, most volatile one was over in Livingstone

2653
02:18:48,720 --> 02:18:51,680
Speaker 1: one night. He said, we just backed off. Hunters said,

2654
02:18:51,800 --> 02:18:54,480
Speaker 1: we don't want anybody else at the table besides hunters

2655
02:18:54,920 --> 02:18:58,840
Speaker 1: deciding what happens with Montana wildlife. And what a great

2656
02:18:58,959 --> 02:19:02,039
Speaker 1: idea to get lots of money for people who are't

2657
02:19:02,040 --> 02:19:03,560
Speaker 1: going to compete with you and try to shoot that deer.

2658
02:19:03,560 --> 02:19:04,680
Speaker 1: They just want to go out and look at birds,

2659
02:19:04,680 --> 02:19:06,320
Speaker 1: and they were glad to buy a stamp so they

2660
02:19:06,360 --> 02:19:08,040
Speaker 1: can help, so you can have more grosshand birds than

2661
02:19:08,040 --> 02:19:11,240
Speaker 1: whatever else. I think hunters chased away other people because

2662
02:19:11,240 --> 02:19:13,640
Speaker 1: you want to own the discussion. That's a big mistake.

2663
02:19:14,080 --> 02:19:17,600
Speaker 1: I think there's lots of people in Montana wildlife viewing

2664
02:19:17,800 --> 02:19:21,560
Speaker 1: is on a dramatic increase, decades long increase. There's a

2665
02:19:21,600 --> 02:19:23,400
Speaker 1: lot of money in those people pockets and you're leaving

2666
02:19:23,400 --> 02:19:26,800
Speaker 1: it on the table. Here's that one. Another one with sports.

2667
02:19:27,160 --> 02:19:28,360
Speaker 1: So I don't know if any of you golf or

2668
02:19:28,360 --> 02:19:32,120
Speaker 1: ski at Bridge Bowl or whatever. Definitely no golfing. I

2669
02:19:32,200 --> 02:19:34,280
Speaker 1: don't golf either. Okay, let's not go with that joke.

2670
02:19:34,360 --> 02:19:37,800
Speaker 1: I'm golf. My father was a golfer. So anybody downhill,

2671
02:19:37,840 --> 02:19:41,920
Speaker 1: ski ever you're hunting, is not keeping up with the

2672
02:19:42,000 --> 02:19:46,320
Speaker 1: increasing price of sports. About my first season pass in

2673
02:19:46,400 --> 02:19:47,880
Speaker 1: Bridge or Bowl, I think it was a hundred and

2674
02:19:47,959 --> 02:19:49,760
Speaker 1: ten dollars. Seemed like a king's ransom of the time.

2675
02:19:49,800 --> 02:19:52,720
Speaker 1: Almost killed me to pay that much money. I mean

2676
02:19:52,840 --> 02:19:56,280
Speaker 1: that was uh didn't leave any money for gas to go,

2677
02:19:56,440 --> 02:19:58,200
Speaker 1: so it's a bad move. I had to hitchhike or

2678
02:19:58,480 --> 02:20:02,520
Speaker 1: you know, get rides up there and call. And now

2679
02:20:02,800 --> 02:20:04,840
Speaker 1: let's see at Bridge of Bowl, I think a season

2680
02:20:04,879 --> 02:20:07,560
Speaker 1: passes eight hundred bucks. If you want to go skiing

2681
02:20:08,560 --> 02:20:12,200
Speaker 1: one day, I think it's fifty nine dollars for one day,

2682
02:20:13,000 --> 02:20:15,959
Speaker 1: and you can get a ten past thing for five

2683
02:20:16,440 --> 02:20:19,720
Speaker 1: ten bucks to go. So just look at other sports

2684
02:20:20,320 --> 02:20:23,280
Speaker 1: like golfing for three hours that okash forty bucks for

2685
02:20:23,480 --> 02:20:26,480
Speaker 1: one time for three hours skiing one time from nine

2686
02:20:26,600 --> 02:20:28,920
Speaker 1: thirty until four o'clock in the afternoon and fifty nine bucks.

2687
02:20:29,760 --> 02:20:32,879
Speaker 1: So you can get an elk hunting season pass ten

2688
02:20:32,959 --> 02:20:35,200
Speaker 1: bucks for your general tag and with the elk tag

2689
02:20:35,240 --> 02:20:47,000
Speaker 1: now fifteen dollars always okay anyway, so if you can, so,

2690
02:20:47,080 --> 02:20:49,760
Speaker 1: do you want to go ell hunting in Montana for

2691
02:20:49,840 --> 02:20:51,480
Speaker 1: gosh six one of the best places in the world.

2692
02:20:51,520 --> 02:20:53,560
Speaker 1: You want to go hunting Montana? Ten bucks for general

2693
02:20:53,600 --> 02:20:56,880
Speaker 1: tag and it's it's ten dollars, so twenty bucks six

2694
02:20:57,240 --> 02:21:01,600
Speaker 1: d I'm just talking about for get that, not on residents,

2695
02:21:01,640 --> 02:21:04,560
Speaker 1: you guys sitting right here right you get a season

2696
02:21:04,640 --> 02:21:07,440
Speaker 1: passed to hunt elk in Montana for four straight months

2697
02:21:07,600 --> 02:21:10,959
Speaker 1: for twenty bucks and FTW pieces. Every time we try

2698
02:21:11,000 --> 02:21:15,200
Speaker 1: to raise it, people come absolutely on glued. Yeah, so

2699
02:21:15,480 --> 02:21:17,840
Speaker 1: you'll know you'll never hear okay, Okay, So I know

2700
02:21:17,959 --> 02:21:20,879
Speaker 1: you're like throwing out like general recommendations for general folks.

2701
02:21:20,959 --> 02:21:23,360
Speaker 1: I don't think that. I mean, I think general we did.

2702
02:21:23,560 --> 02:21:25,160
Speaker 1: How long did it take? You're not paying up, Sam,

2703
02:21:25,200 --> 02:21:28,440
Speaker 1: You probably know how long was the duck stand set

2704
02:21:28,520 --> 02:21:32,120
Speaker 1: of fifteen bucks? Oh, I mean like forty fifty years.

2705
02:21:32,160 --> 02:21:35,040
Speaker 1: They didn't even get it adjusted for inflation. When ye know,

2706
02:21:37,160 --> 02:21:39,400
Speaker 1: I think the hunters can't come, so you know, if

2707
02:21:39,480 --> 02:21:41,240
Speaker 1: you can't. So, if you can't do it, we want

2708
02:21:41,280 --> 02:21:43,040
Speaker 1: it all man, if you can't, Yeah, we want it

2709
02:21:43,080 --> 02:21:45,280
Speaker 1: from not to pay. I don't care if those dumb

2710
02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:47,560
Speaker 1: skiars pay that much of those golfers or voters or

2711
02:21:47,560 --> 02:21:50,080
Speaker 1: anybody else. We don't want our tags going up. And

2712
02:21:50,160 --> 02:21:52,360
Speaker 1: I hear I actually argue, you know, on a chair

2713
02:21:52,440 --> 02:21:54,520
Speaker 1: lift with people, someone who's got an eight hundred dollars

2714
02:21:54,600 --> 02:21:56,600
Speaker 1: key tags, saying if I have to pay twice what

2715
02:21:56,680 --> 02:21:59,440
Speaker 1: I'm paying now, I'm done. I cannot. Yeah, with that

2716
02:21:59,520 --> 02:22:02,680
Speaker 1: bottle I West whiskey cost you forty five bucks, and

2717
02:22:02,840 --> 02:22:05,360
Speaker 1: that MOSSI Oaks stretchy thing you're just showing me the

2718
02:22:05,480 --> 02:22:07,480
Speaker 1: day there was ninety bucks. Let's just take all the

2719
02:22:07,480 --> 02:22:09,480
Speaker 1: stuff out of your car and put you in to

2720
02:22:09,560 --> 02:22:11,640
Speaker 1: strip you too, your stand there naked for a few minutes.

2721
02:22:11,800 --> 02:22:13,920
Speaker 1: I want to price everything that you used to hunt.

2722
02:22:14,440 --> 02:22:18,520
Speaker 1: And you can't pay bucks for ELK tag. Yeah, I

2723
02:22:18,560 --> 02:22:20,440
Speaker 1: think I think a couple of year ones are things

2724
02:22:20,480 --> 02:22:23,320
Speaker 1: that people are already talking about but they're not doing it. Yeah,

2725
02:22:23,320 --> 02:22:25,400
Speaker 1: there are things that people already talking about. There's a

2726
02:22:26,280 --> 02:22:31,640
Speaker 1: robust conversation. You know, I like them. There's a lot

2727
02:22:31,879 --> 02:22:34,440
Speaker 1: of movement. They're the one I really agree with you on.

2728
02:22:34,640 --> 02:22:39,920
Speaker 1: I think that the Yeah people are really resistant understanding,

2729
02:22:40,000 --> 02:22:42,520
Speaker 1: like knowing where the money goes and the good that

2730
02:22:42,600 --> 02:22:45,360
Speaker 1: it does. I think there's an irrational resistance to paying

2731
02:22:46,640 --> 02:22:49,400
Speaker 1: the fair price for the opportunity. So the f DPS revenues,

2732
02:22:50,080 --> 02:22:52,360
Speaker 1: there are fifty nine million dollars a year that they

2733
02:22:52,480 --> 02:22:55,760
Speaker 1: get for game stuff. They do other stuff fish million

2734
02:22:55,920 --> 02:22:58,200
Speaker 1: bucks a year. If you get that to a hundred

2735
02:22:58,240 --> 02:23:00,240
Speaker 1: million bucks or d twenty million bucks or heard in

2736
02:23:00,280 --> 02:23:02,160
Speaker 1: fifty million bucks, now we're gonna start to get a

2737
02:23:02,200 --> 02:23:04,280
Speaker 1: lot more access and a lot more animals. That's the

2738
02:23:04,360 --> 02:23:06,800
Speaker 1: most point to pay. Those ranchers defense that stuff out,

2739
02:23:06,920 --> 02:23:10,440
Speaker 1: they're calm, more wildlife. But it gets down to money,

2740
02:23:10,480 --> 02:23:12,360
Speaker 1: I believe. So if the easiest thing, if none of

2741
02:23:12,360 --> 02:23:14,320
Speaker 1: this stuff, because legislation would change and all that kind

2742
02:23:14,360 --> 02:23:17,240
Speaker 1: of stuff, Hunting groups could also get together. F to

2743
02:23:17,320 --> 02:23:20,640
Speaker 1: VP has an f to VP foundation, there's nothing in it.

2744
02:23:21,400 --> 02:23:24,520
Speaker 1: It might have almost nothing in it. If you guys

2745
02:23:24,560 --> 02:23:27,760
Speaker 1: all got together form some organization you just raise money for.

2746
02:23:27,800 --> 02:23:30,040
Speaker 1: They have to be f foundation, just just like kPr

2747
02:23:30,280 --> 02:23:33,680
Speaker 1: money straight into that raise three four million bucks a year.

2748
02:23:35,240 --> 02:23:38,480
Speaker 1: That's a lot offenses around Alfalva fields. That makes a

2749
02:23:38,560 --> 02:23:41,080
Speaker 1: lot of ranchers happy. That gets the f t VP

2750
02:23:41,320 --> 02:23:43,520
Speaker 1: Regions six, Region four off the hook. No more screaming

2751
02:23:43,520 --> 02:23:45,039
Speaker 1: at him. You've got too many elk here or bears.

2752
02:23:45,080 --> 02:23:47,640
Speaker 1: He might purshoot it or whatever else. Now I'm happy.

2753
02:23:47,680 --> 02:23:49,600
Speaker 1: I'm cool because I'm a hunter. Two. If I'm a rancher,

2754
02:23:49,640 --> 02:23:51,040
Speaker 1: a lot of them are, and now all of a

2755
02:23:51,040 --> 02:23:54,279
Speaker 1: sudden those quotas can go up. Just give just today

2756
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:55,840
Speaker 1: when I leave right a check to the F to

2757
02:23:55,879 --> 02:23:58,200
Speaker 1: B Foundation. You don't have to ask anybody, no change

2758
02:23:58,240 --> 02:24:00,400
Speaker 1: of Congress or laws or anything like that. Just give

2759
02:24:00,440 --> 02:24:03,560
Speaker 1: them the money, but ear market for that. I want

2760
02:24:03,600 --> 02:24:06,320
Speaker 1: it for wildlife damage. I wanted to be helped for

2761
02:24:06,360 --> 02:24:10,600
Speaker 1: wildlife damage and fill that bucket up. Fundraising is hard,

2762
02:24:10,800 --> 02:24:13,439
Speaker 1: but you guys, if you got with your with Steve's

2763
02:24:13,480 --> 02:24:17,000
Speaker 1: reach and that mouthpiece, the reach that he has and

2764
02:24:17,120 --> 02:24:18,840
Speaker 1: just said, I want you guys, just like I want

2765
02:24:18,879 --> 02:24:21,240
Speaker 1: you to buy Snaze boots, I want you to buy

2766
02:24:21,320 --> 02:24:24,360
Speaker 1: my cookbook or whatever else. Oh, by the way, you guys,

2767
02:24:24,600 --> 02:24:26,200
Speaker 1: do not go to sleep tonight until you write to

2768
02:24:26,280 --> 02:24:28,320
Speaker 1: check the f TVP found. It's a big damn country

2769
02:24:28,360 --> 02:24:30,920
Speaker 1: and Montage is Blee state. You're talking to a lot

2770
02:24:30,959 --> 02:24:33,959
Speaker 1: of hunters here, though. What if everybody, what if everybody

2771
02:24:34,000 --> 02:24:38,600
Speaker 1: wrote fifty bucks fifty bucks every guide everybody wrote fifty bucks,

2772
02:24:39,600 --> 02:24:43,959
Speaker 1: you'd get millions or by by three duck stamps, whatever

2773
02:24:44,040 --> 02:24:46,000
Speaker 1: it is. But you guys ought to be jamming for

2774
02:24:46,120 --> 02:24:49,280
Speaker 1: millions order that foundation. But you say to the foundation head,

2775
02:24:49,680 --> 02:24:54,280
Speaker 1: I want this earmarked only for wildlife damage uh mitigation,

2776
02:24:54,720 --> 02:24:56,959
Speaker 1: and pretty soon we'll have wildlife coming out of ears.

2777
02:24:57,400 --> 02:24:59,520
Speaker 1: You guys can control it. You know, we do a

2778
02:24:59,560 --> 02:25:02,520
Speaker 1: thing here, hot tip offs. That's your hot tip? Is it?

2779
02:25:03,000 --> 02:25:06,080
Speaker 1: What do you think of it? I love it, man.

2780
02:25:06,320 --> 02:25:10,840
Speaker 1: I wish everybody would give thousands of dollars tomorrow, so there.

2781
02:25:11,240 --> 02:25:13,119
Speaker 1: I wish they would buy ten duck stamps and give

2782
02:25:13,200 --> 02:25:17,000
Speaker 1: thousands tomorrow to their fishing Game agency. But I don't

2783
02:25:17,040 --> 02:25:19,119
Speaker 1: not I don't not wish they would do it. That's

2784
02:25:19,120 --> 02:25:23,600
Speaker 1: a good point though, right, It's like in the enclosed circles.

2785
02:25:23,640 --> 02:25:26,560
Speaker 1: I kind of spend this argument different ways. But um,

2786
02:25:27,120 --> 02:25:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, hunters as a group, that's just you can

2787
02:25:30,840 --> 02:25:34,480
Speaker 1: pick any group, and there's some nasty examples out there too.

2788
02:25:34,600 --> 02:25:38,800
Speaker 1: But hunters are can be a diverse group, and there's

2789
02:25:38,840 --> 02:25:42,560
Speaker 1: plenty of hunters in this Bell curve that are spending

2790
02:25:42,680 --> 02:25:46,240
Speaker 1: a lot of money, a lot more money um than

2791
02:25:46,320 --> 02:25:48,800
Speaker 1: that fifty bucks every single year to a lot of

2792
02:25:48,840 --> 02:25:51,320
Speaker 1: different groups, right, trying to get this ball rolling and

2793
02:25:52,320 --> 02:25:55,200
Speaker 1: keep it going right. So, yeah, man, there's there's plenty

2794
02:25:55,200 --> 02:25:59,040
Speaker 1: of folks within our our ranks that are doing the

2795
02:25:59,040 --> 02:26:01,680
Speaker 1: bare minimum. And a long time ago we said, you know,

2796
02:26:02,440 --> 02:26:06,359
Speaker 1: buying your duck stamp and you're hunting and conservation licenses,

2797
02:26:07,440 --> 02:26:10,880
Speaker 1: it's just not enough anymore. It used to be, you know,

2798
02:26:11,000 --> 02:26:19,360
Speaker 1: the price would mission. But yeah, just like just there's

2799
02:26:19,480 --> 02:26:25,080
Speaker 1: you're I'm looking to wrap her up. Yes, But there's

2800
02:26:25,120 --> 02:26:30,920
Speaker 1: also like big historical stuff, you know, the the hunters

2801
02:26:31,000 --> 02:26:34,360
Speaker 1: that we grow up dreaming about, Okay, that we tell

2802
02:26:34,440 --> 02:26:38,480
Speaker 1: the narratives of and talk about. John Coulter Um. You

2803
02:26:38,600 --> 02:26:40,600
Speaker 1: mentioned the guy that you know, the guy that was

2804
02:26:40,600 --> 02:26:42,000
Speaker 1: a chart One of the guys was a charge of

2805
02:26:42,080 --> 02:26:44,400
Speaker 1: hunting game to supply the Lewis and Clark expedition was

2806
02:26:44,480 --> 02:26:46,600
Speaker 1: a feller by the name of John Coulter. Um. We

2807
02:26:46,720 --> 02:26:51,480
Speaker 1: all know Daniel Boone, Um, Davy Crockett, Jed Smith, Okay,

2808
02:26:52,840 --> 02:26:55,320
Speaker 1: are sort of the the legacy that has shaped the

2809
02:26:55,480 --> 02:26:59,080
Speaker 1: identity of American hunters where guys that didn't pay to

2810
02:26:59,160 --> 02:27:00,720
Speaker 1: go out and be in the wood, they got paid

2811
02:27:00,760 --> 02:27:02,280
Speaker 1: to go out and be in the woods. So there's

2812
02:27:02,280 --> 02:27:06,400
Speaker 1: like your body, you know, there's this there's this this

2813
02:27:06,600 --> 02:27:10,200
Speaker 1: thing that it's like you have the right to go

2814
02:27:10,440 --> 02:27:15,119
Speaker 1: out and extract said resources without a lot of um

2815
02:27:16,040 --> 02:27:17,920
Speaker 1: push back and red tape. And there's people that have

2816
02:27:17,959 --> 02:27:20,440
Speaker 1: an expectation about that, and I think that those expectations

2817
02:27:21,040 --> 02:27:26,039
Speaker 1: need to get up to speed. I agree, But there

2818
02:27:26,280 --> 02:27:28,720
Speaker 1: is a there's a way if you want to look

2819
02:27:28,760 --> 02:27:31,080
Speaker 1: at it, like where did our mind frame come from?

2820
02:27:31,320 --> 02:27:33,760
Speaker 1: That that's mine. I should be allowed to go out

2821
02:27:33,800 --> 02:27:37,600
Speaker 1: and get it. Uh, you don't need It's not hard

2822
02:27:37,680 --> 02:27:40,400
Speaker 1: to understand how we came to view it that way.

2823
02:27:41,480 --> 02:27:46,959
Speaker 1: So when something when something has a real long track record,

2824
02:27:47,080 --> 02:27:49,879
Speaker 1: like a mentality that has a long track, it's difficult

2825
02:27:49,920 --> 02:27:52,480
Speaker 1: to spend it. And people did a big move towards

2826
02:27:53,160 --> 02:27:57,119
Speaker 1: changing it. And you know during the Franklin Roosevelt administration

2827
02:27:57,200 --> 02:28:01,560
Speaker 1: with the Wildlife Restoration Act um when we had to

2828
02:28:01,760 --> 02:28:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, when people are like had to start doing

2829
02:28:03,400 --> 02:28:05,640
Speaker 1: a duck stamp. That's a big step. People had to

2830
02:28:05,680 --> 02:28:08,360
Speaker 1: start using non toxic shot to hunt waterfall, Like, oh

2831
02:28:08,440 --> 02:28:10,960
Speaker 1: my god, I'd rather quit duck hunting to do that. Right,

2832
02:28:11,320 --> 02:28:15,560
Speaker 1: So you have people go not kicking and screaming into

2833
02:28:15,560 --> 02:28:19,400
Speaker 1: the future, but kicking and screaming into the present. Man,

2834
02:28:19,480 --> 02:28:22,959
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like hard. So, but anyone that's involved

2835
02:28:23,000 --> 02:28:26,680
Speaker 1: in wildlife policy in any kind of serious way, and

2836
02:28:26,720 --> 02:28:29,880
Speaker 1: anyone's involved in hunting and fishing in America in any

2837
02:28:29,959 --> 02:28:35,000
Speaker 1: kind of serious way, realizes and really better realized that

2838
02:28:35,440 --> 02:28:40,720
Speaker 1: fund that wildlife costs money. It's here because we've made

2839
02:28:41,120 --> 02:28:42,800
Speaker 1: It's not here by accident. It used to be here

2840
02:28:42,879 --> 02:28:45,240
Speaker 1: by accident, and it was here despite all of our

2841
02:28:45,280 --> 02:28:48,000
Speaker 1: best efforts to remove it. Now it's here for the

2842
02:28:48,080 --> 02:28:50,640
Speaker 1: simple reason that we've decided that it's valuable and that

2843
02:28:50,680 --> 02:28:52,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna make sacrifices to have it beyond the ground.

2844
02:28:52,920 --> 02:28:57,560
Speaker 1: And it's like that's why around it, like hunting seasons,

2845
02:28:58,760 --> 02:29:00,720
Speaker 1: it's here because we decided to have it be here.

2846
02:29:01,000 --> 02:29:02,560
Speaker 1: And what we've got missed. I think you're on a

2847
02:29:02,680 --> 02:29:05,320
Speaker 1: very good track. You're important track. One thing that got

2848
02:29:05,400 --> 02:29:07,680
Speaker 1: miss kind of snuck up on people like a ski resort.

2849
02:29:07,840 --> 02:29:10,200
Speaker 1: When I started skiing the seventies of Bridge of Bowl,

2850
02:29:10,760 --> 02:29:13,080
Speaker 1: Why why the tags keep going on, the price to

2851
02:29:13,200 --> 02:29:15,440
Speaker 1: keep going up when you look at the infrastructure that's

2852
02:29:15,480 --> 02:29:17,520
Speaker 1: there to create a good experience for you, from a

2853
02:29:18,000 --> 02:29:21,880
Speaker 1: keeping the ski patrol warm with a little hut, those chairlifts, obviously,

2854
02:29:22,200 --> 02:29:25,920
Speaker 1: safety things, uh people, all that kind of stuff. Well,

2855
02:29:25,959 --> 02:29:28,480
Speaker 1: but when we decided to put that structure around FTVP

2856
02:29:28,640 --> 02:29:31,480
Speaker 1: and say there's seasons on hunting, so we don't eradicate

2857
02:29:31,560 --> 02:29:35,480
Speaker 1: everything anymore, and somebody has to maintain that structure. Fish

2858
02:29:35,520 --> 02:29:39,680
Speaker 1: Walton Parks has nearly seven hundred employees. That's game wardens

2859
02:29:39,720 --> 02:29:43,560
Speaker 1: and trucks and laptops and radios and gas and buildings,

2860
02:29:43,760 --> 02:29:46,160
Speaker 1: all that stuff and going out there and buying easements

2861
02:29:46,160 --> 02:29:50,640
Speaker 1: and buying property. That's a huge infrastructure, expensive instructure infrastructure

2862
02:29:50,680 --> 02:29:53,360
Speaker 1: there so that you can have a great hunt. They're

2863
02:29:53,360 --> 02:29:55,320
Speaker 1: out there while we're sitting here drinking coffee. They're out

2864
02:29:55,320 --> 02:29:58,240
Speaker 1: there busting their ass, resting somebody trying to open this

2865
02:29:58,560 --> 02:30:01,320
Speaker 1: was closing the gate. What we're doing a talk slide show,

2866
02:30:01,560 --> 02:30:05,440
Speaker 1: doing disease research. But these are good people. Have to

2867
02:30:05,520 --> 02:30:08,480
Speaker 1: be a pete and they are broke because people go,

2868
02:30:08,560 --> 02:30:10,680
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to pay for hunting ten bucks, you

2869
02:30:10,800 --> 02:30:13,120
Speaker 1: raise it, twelve bucks. Can't do it while we load

2870
02:30:13,160 --> 02:30:16,920
Speaker 1: our bourbon and our guns in our truck. I don't.

2871
02:30:16,959 --> 02:30:18,879
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to pay for It's a rights, god

2872
02:30:18,959 --> 02:30:21,000
Speaker 1: given right. Well, it's not a god given right to

2873
02:30:21,040 --> 02:30:23,880
Speaker 1: ski a bridge of bowl for free. Uh, there's a

2874
02:30:24,160 --> 02:30:26,680
Speaker 1: huge cost. You live in a capital of society. Hunters

2875
02:30:26,720 --> 02:30:28,960
Speaker 1: need to pay up and we'll everybody'll be happy. It's

2876
02:30:29,000 --> 02:30:31,240
Speaker 1: not that much money compared to what your god on

2877
02:30:31,320 --> 02:30:34,080
Speaker 1: your body when your archery hunting. You just take the

2878
02:30:34,120 --> 02:30:36,480
Speaker 1: cost to your poly pro maybe your boots in one sock.

2879
02:30:36,600 --> 02:30:38,760
Speaker 1: That's all you gotta give. I feel like, um, you

2880
02:30:38,840 --> 02:30:41,040
Speaker 1: know that. I take that point well. But at the

2881
02:30:41,120 --> 02:30:44,840
Speaker 1: same time, I really believe that FBP should really hold

2882
02:30:44,879 --> 02:30:48,200
Speaker 1: other users accountable too, in terms of like really giving back.

2883
02:30:48,280 --> 02:30:51,119
Speaker 1: They try try with the stamp. Hunters shout them down,

2884
02:30:51,920 --> 02:30:54,160
Speaker 1: but hunters won't shot them down. If they want to

2885
02:30:54,200 --> 02:30:58,880
Speaker 1: do like um uh, ski tax I could, I'll make

2886
02:30:58,920 --> 02:31:01,920
Speaker 1: you personal guarantee if they want to impose a thirteen

2887
02:31:01,959 --> 02:31:05,160
Speaker 1: to fourteen percent tax on ski equipment in order to

2888
02:31:06,120 --> 02:31:10,040
Speaker 1: um fund wildlife in America. I can promise you you

2889
02:31:10,080 --> 02:31:11,720
Speaker 1: won't hear a lot of great from us. But that's

2890
02:31:11,720 --> 02:31:16,800
Speaker 1: not true. We've had this discussion. It is true. No, no, no, no,

2891
02:31:17,080 --> 02:31:19,680
Speaker 1: it's true that hunters are are like the way that

2892
02:31:19,760 --> 02:31:21,640
Speaker 1: it is now at the table, and there aren't a

2893
02:31:21,640 --> 02:31:24,000
Speaker 1: lot of other voices. Well, just they should give the

2894
02:31:24,080 --> 02:31:27,560
Speaker 1: money but have no input alright, looking to wrap her up.

2895
02:31:29,240 --> 02:31:32,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate the call out. I don't mean I'm not

2896
02:31:32,959 --> 02:31:34,920
Speaker 1: trying to be obnoxious. No no, no, no no. Some

2897
02:31:35,000 --> 02:31:37,560
Speaker 1: people will obviously take it that way and we'll be offended.

2898
02:31:38,120 --> 02:31:40,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate. Yeah, people are always offended by everything. Someone's

2899
02:31:40,920 --> 02:31:44,920
Speaker 1: offended by us trying to sell our book, which is

2900
02:31:44,959 --> 02:31:51,760
Speaker 1: a public service. Someone that was it just no, it's great.

2901
02:31:52,040 --> 02:31:54,240
Speaker 1: I appreciate hearing that from the from the outs and

2902
02:31:54,360 --> 02:31:56,680
Speaker 1: not really from the outside. I mean, you're I consider

2903
02:31:56,720 --> 02:31:58,960
Speaker 1: you one of us, but I think we need to

2904
02:31:59,040 --> 02:32:01,400
Speaker 1: be doing more of that. You gotta work together and

2905
02:32:01,400 --> 02:32:04,040
Speaker 1: the solutions are the solution, just not do it's not

2906
02:32:04,240 --> 02:32:05,879
Speaker 1: it's not undoing. I mean when people say, how did

2907
02:32:05,879 --> 02:32:06,920
Speaker 1: in the world do you think you could take on

2908
02:32:07,000 --> 02:32:10,240
Speaker 1: this project from scratch, a private enterprise the Race seven

2909
02:32:10,320 --> 02:32:12,400
Speaker 1: or a million dollars and build this whole thing. He's

2910
02:32:12,440 --> 02:32:15,440
Speaker 1: gotta get organized and execute over a very long period

2911
02:32:15,480 --> 02:32:16,960
Speaker 1: of time. Can't just give up because he hit a

2912
02:32:17,000 --> 02:32:19,879
Speaker 1: few frustrating bombs. So that's well, you guys can do it. Yeah,

2913
02:32:19,959 --> 02:32:23,440
Speaker 1: well we've done an extraordinary amount of work. Yeah on

2914
02:32:23,520 --> 02:32:28,760
Speaker 1: behalf of American Wildlook. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, uh and you

2915
02:32:28,840 --> 02:32:30,600
Speaker 1: know we should do a lot better work going forward.

2916
02:32:31,640 --> 02:32:34,600
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Tough questions, you know you did

2917
02:32:34,680 --> 02:32:37,160
Speaker 1: some of them. You dodged a couple did Yeah, a

2918
02:32:37,200 --> 02:32:39,440
Speaker 1: little bit. But it was good. It was good. I

2919
02:32:39,520 --> 02:32:41,160
Speaker 1: liked it because you know what, it wasn't a dodge.

2920
02:32:41,200 --> 02:32:43,480
Speaker 1: You just don't know. I understand sometuff I don't. I know.

2921
02:32:43,920 --> 02:32:46,560
Speaker 1: The older I get you guys are you're young, you older,

2922
02:32:46,600 --> 02:32:48,200
Speaker 1: you get, the less certain you are about a lot

2923
02:32:48,240 --> 02:32:50,640
Speaker 1: of stuff. Can I give you you said it? Can

2924
02:32:50,720 --> 02:32:52,680
Speaker 1: I give you a concluder? Oh you're allowed to having.

2925
02:32:53,320 --> 02:32:55,240
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let anyone else have a concluder. I

2926
02:32:55,280 --> 02:32:57,119
Speaker 1: had looked. I'm not gonna take a concluder, but I'll

2927
02:32:57,200 --> 02:32:59,920
Speaker 1: let you have a concluder. He just do you, guys, concluder.

2928
02:33:00,760 --> 02:33:03,360
Speaker 1: Here's I like people to take away. They probably even

2929
02:33:03,440 --> 02:33:05,880
Speaker 1: you guys might have another thousand questions. I'm glad to

2930
02:33:05,920 --> 02:33:09,600
Speaker 1: come back anytime to try to answer them. Some things

2931
02:33:09,640 --> 02:33:11,360
Speaker 1: something that didn't sound quite right. So we're gonna get

2932
02:33:11,360 --> 02:33:13,040
Speaker 1: back in here and straighten this out. Whatever it was,

2933
02:33:13,200 --> 02:33:16,720
Speaker 1: you know, glad to do it. Please do people listening,

2934
02:33:16,760 --> 02:33:18,440
Speaker 1: what I like you to take away is you can

2935
02:33:18,480 --> 02:33:22,560
Speaker 1: count on us to keep going. So we've done property acquisitions.

2936
02:33:22,600 --> 02:33:24,960
Speaker 1: We're adding about thirty five thousand acres a year to

2937
02:33:25,000 --> 02:33:28,280
Speaker 1: our model. We will work our butts off to keep

2938
02:33:28,320 --> 02:33:32,200
Speaker 1: this thing going and keep adding more wildlife habitat or

2939
02:33:32,280 --> 02:33:35,360
Speaker 1: work really hard to take that habitat and moving into

2940
02:33:35,400 --> 02:33:38,560
Speaker 1: something that is going to support a huge amount of wildlife,

2941
02:33:39,040 --> 02:33:42,040
Speaker 1: but also change the baseline for which what is normal

2942
02:33:42,160 --> 02:33:44,680
Speaker 1: today in Montana. And when you come out, you'll see

2943
02:33:44,760 --> 02:33:48,959
Speaker 1: less fences, you'll see less takeout keep out signs, more

2944
02:33:49,040 --> 02:33:51,680
Speaker 1: signs saying welcome to prairie American Prairie Reserve on our

2945
02:33:51,760 --> 02:33:54,760
Speaker 1: private land. And we want to make things like corner

2946
02:33:54,840 --> 02:33:57,160
Speaker 1: hopping and all that kind of stuff moot because the

2947
02:33:57,240 --> 02:33:59,840
Speaker 1: fancy needed there. We've already done that. We can show

2948
02:33:59,879 --> 02:34:02,320
Speaker 1: you and thousands and tens of thousands of acres where

2949
02:34:02,320 --> 02:34:04,480
Speaker 1: we've already done that where it's a it's a You

2950
02:34:04,480 --> 02:34:06,200
Speaker 1: don't have to say that. You just walk right across

2951
02:34:06,240 --> 02:34:09,360
Speaker 1: our private the checker the world of checkerboard goes away

2952
02:34:09,360 --> 02:34:13,080
Speaker 1: because he can't see it anymore. Right, But um, we'll

2953
02:34:13,080 --> 02:34:16,320
Speaker 1: also put in infrastructure. We're just finishing our second really

2954
02:34:16,360 --> 02:34:19,680
Speaker 1: big campground right on one where it'll be open in

2955
02:34:19,720 --> 02:34:21,440
Speaker 1: the spring. But there's hunters and other so we're put

2956
02:34:21,480 --> 02:34:23,920
Speaker 1: in campgrounds fifteen bucks a night. If you think that's

2957
02:34:23,920 --> 02:34:25,720
Speaker 1: the exorbitant, you can camp on the BLM right next

2958
02:34:25,760 --> 02:34:29,360
Speaker 1: door for free. Gorilla camp. We're doing a two mile

2959
02:34:29,400 --> 02:34:31,160
Speaker 1: wide hut to hut system, one of the biggest hut

2960
02:34:31,200 --> 02:34:34,200
Speaker 1: systems in North America. There's hunters using those huts right now.

2961
02:34:34,360 --> 02:34:37,000
Speaker 1: Based on the p N. We're moving west to east

2962
02:34:37,040 --> 02:34:38,800
Speaker 1: all the way across towards the fourth back down. So

2963
02:34:38,920 --> 02:34:41,480
Speaker 1: we'll put in things for you, will buy, the land,

2964
02:34:41,879 --> 02:34:45,360
Speaker 1: will remodel, land, will work on wildlife populations. We'll put

2965
02:34:45,440 --> 02:34:47,920
Speaker 1: in places for you to stay and make it easy

2966
02:34:48,000 --> 02:34:49,600
Speaker 1: for you to move about. Try to take it back

2967
02:34:49,640 --> 02:34:53,080
Speaker 1: in some ways to the old days. But you guys

2968
02:34:53,160 --> 02:34:57,840
Speaker 1: can help us, mostly by helping barking up the wrong

2969
02:34:57,959 --> 02:35:00,680
Speaker 1: tree by hammering on us for acts us. All I

2970
02:35:00,720 --> 02:35:03,120
Speaker 1: can say is, don't worry about it. Come talk to me,

2971
02:35:03,280 --> 02:35:06,440
Speaker 1: Come talk to anybody or CEO Ali Fox. Just ask

2972
02:35:06,520 --> 02:35:09,800
Speaker 1: you guys really serious about public access, and then once

2973
02:35:09,840 --> 02:35:12,600
Speaker 1: you feel good about that, help us build wildlife populations.

2974
02:35:12,959 --> 02:35:14,800
Speaker 1: And you can do that by some ideas we just

2975
02:35:14,840 --> 02:35:17,480
Speaker 1: talked about in the last half hour. The issue is

2976
02:35:17,520 --> 02:35:20,680
Speaker 1: a population. So it's because everybody's chasing around tiny little

2977
02:35:20,720 --> 02:35:23,200
Speaker 1: fragments of what used to be there. We can grow

2978
02:35:23,280 --> 02:35:25,960
Speaker 1: that up big. Everybody's gonna win. But you got to

2979
02:35:26,000 --> 02:35:28,959
Speaker 1: help the ranchers. They're working on three percent margins. They

2980
02:35:29,040 --> 02:35:31,160
Speaker 1: need some help, no matter what you think, whether they

2981
02:35:31,200 --> 02:35:33,879
Speaker 1: should share the cost ordever else. Just let's just help.

2982
02:35:34,520 --> 02:35:37,520
Speaker 1: We'll get more wildline. So that's what I'd say. We'll

2983
02:35:37,600 --> 02:35:42,360
Speaker 1: keep working, all right, you have the weight to save

2984
02:35:42,400 --> 02:35:48,840
Speaker 1: your concluders. I had a good one ahead. If you

2985
02:35:49,920 --> 02:35:53,400
Speaker 1: I want to hear, I'm pushing and I feel like

2986
02:35:53,560 --> 02:35:55,160
Speaker 1: you know I'm gonna push it. Like he was saying

2987
02:35:55,160 --> 02:35:57,320
Speaker 1: about what the bisons like, the farther away you are

2988
02:35:57,520 --> 02:36:01,200
Speaker 1: from them. That like I'm anxious about bison. I don't

2989
02:36:01,200 --> 02:36:03,040
Speaker 1: even because I don't know that much about him. You know,

2990
02:36:03,080 --> 02:36:05,200
Speaker 1: I just know what's on the park. So the same

2991
02:36:05,280 --> 02:36:07,120
Speaker 1: thing with APR. It's like people need to go up

2992
02:36:07,160 --> 02:36:09,760
Speaker 1: there and check it out. Like you said, it's wide

2993
02:36:09,800 --> 02:36:11,520
Speaker 1: open right now, go check it out and go see

2994
02:36:11,560 --> 02:36:13,800
Speaker 1: what's going on there. There's hunting opportunities up there now,

2995
02:36:13,840 --> 02:36:15,440
Speaker 1: we don't need to talk about what they are. Go

2996
02:36:15,560 --> 02:36:17,280
Speaker 1: online and go check it out. And I think a

2997
02:36:17,360 --> 02:36:19,800
Speaker 1: lot less people would be scared of the whole thing

2998
02:36:19,959 --> 02:36:22,760
Speaker 1: if they just probably took a drive up through beautiful

2999
02:36:22,840 --> 02:36:24,960
Speaker 1: Montana and go and check it out. In fact, come

3000
02:36:25,000 --> 02:36:27,119
Speaker 1: on right now today as we're sitting here, there's people

3001
02:36:27,120 --> 02:36:29,360
Speaker 1: out in the snow hunting bison. There you go, go

3002
02:36:29,760 --> 02:36:33,640
Speaker 1: on some bison. Sam, Oh yeah, I was just gonna

3003
02:36:33,640 --> 02:36:35,640
Speaker 1: say that. My dad thinks that you already have your

3004
02:36:35,680 --> 02:36:39,880
Speaker 1: ten thousand bison floor there. Not too long ago, we

3005
02:36:39,959 --> 02:36:41,680
Speaker 1: walked out of the tent in the morning, goes Sam,

3006
02:36:42,200 --> 02:36:45,520
Speaker 1: come look, there's thousands of bison. I'm like, what are

3007
02:36:45,520 --> 02:36:47,320
Speaker 1: you talking about? Like I think they only have like

3008
02:36:47,400 --> 02:36:50,560
Speaker 1: a thousand bisons. And I come out and it's you know,

3009
02:36:50,640 --> 02:36:54,200
Speaker 1: it's that grainy first light kind of dawn. Where were

3010
02:36:54,280 --> 02:37:01,200
Speaker 1: you Yeah, yeah, And and I go, well, yeah, I

3011
02:37:01,240 --> 02:37:03,200
Speaker 1: see those those three that are right up there in

3012
02:37:03,240 --> 02:37:05,240
Speaker 1: the foreground. Like He's like, do what you see all

3013
02:37:05,240 --> 02:37:10,080
Speaker 1: those other ones? I was like those that stage brush? No,

3014
02:37:10,240 --> 02:37:12,080
Speaker 1: but what But what what I wanted to say was

3015
02:37:12,200 --> 02:37:14,160
Speaker 1: that first time I went out in that that country,

3016
02:37:14,200 --> 02:37:18,640
Speaker 1: I was reading Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose, biography of

3017
02:37:18,720 --> 02:37:23,800
Speaker 1: merywether Lewis and and talking about this area. Uh Stephen

3018
02:37:23,840 --> 02:37:27,760
Speaker 1: Ambrose said that it is the area that's least changed

3019
02:37:28,000 --> 02:37:31,039
Speaker 1: since Louis saw it. And that was just so inspiring

3020
02:37:31,120 --> 02:37:33,000
Speaker 1: to me in that moment because I was like six

3021
02:37:33,080 --> 02:37:37,480
Speaker 1: seven miles back in hiking chasing around elk Um and

3022
02:37:37,480 --> 02:37:41,640
Speaker 1: it's just magnificent country. And it always uh plays with

3023
02:37:41,680 --> 02:37:44,600
Speaker 1: my imagination too to think about what it looked like,

3024
02:37:45,120 --> 02:37:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, that two years ago when they saw it,

3025
02:37:47,280 --> 02:37:49,640
Speaker 1: and how cool would be to have that kind of

3026
02:37:49,879 --> 02:37:54,200
Speaker 1: population level again for wildlife someday. God, it's great glad

3027
02:37:54,240 --> 02:37:56,560
Speaker 1: to getting out there. We're trying to get people to

3028
02:37:56,600 --> 02:37:58,960
Speaker 1: see it. It's a long ways and so many people

3029
02:37:58,959 --> 02:38:00,920
Speaker 1: who have questions actually ever been there? A lot of

3030
02:38:01,040 --> 02:38:03,240
Speaker 1: Montana's I've never even seen it. I'll call you my

3031
02:38:03,240 --> 02:38:12,240
Speaker 1: as little wedge one in um Boy. I've talked a

3032
02:38:12,280 --> 02:38:14,040
Speaker 1: lot about a lot of good stuff. I gotta have

3033
02:38:14,120 --> 02:38:17,280
Speaker 1: you back. I'm glad to come back. Yeah, I definitely

3034
02:38:17,320 --> 02:38:20,440
Speaker 1: need to make field true. What's it and that's all

3035
02:38:20,480 --> 02:38:23,360
Speaker 1: I got? All right, everyone, thanks for joining us.