WEBVTT - #577 Jason Flom with John Giuca 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.559 Hello again. It's Connor Hall, senior producer for Wrongful Conviction 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.160 with another case update and behind the scenes insights, and 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.920 I have to revisit John Juka. I remember the first 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:20.520 time I heard about him, not the murderer itself. I mean, 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:22.480 if you were in New York at that time, you 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:27.800 couldn't escape the coverage, probably because this tragic murder fulfilled 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.840 every suburbanites nightmares about big, bad New York City. And 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.560 this was only about a decade after the highest number 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.239 of murders ever recorded here. So when something happens that 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:44.560 actually fits that terrifying belief about dangerous people lurking around 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:48.240 every corner, it becomes pretty easy to sell copies of 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.880 The New York Post. And just like so many others, 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.640 at that time, I was clueless about the prevalence of 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.320 wrongful convictions. It wasn't until working with Jason that I 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.200 found out that the sparse view that I knew about 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.600 at that time were in much greater company. But John's 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.680 case came to me not from Jason, who already knew 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.720 John's mother, Doren, but from a famous pizza spot in 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.560 Carol Gardens, Brooklyn. I used to live right around the 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.959 corner and one of the servers who I knew, you know, 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.399 we were catching up on the subway. She had just 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.040 had a newborn, and I told her about the podcast 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.440 that I just started producing, and she just like stopped 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.400 me and was like, you need to look up John Juca. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.000 And eventually I ended up reaching out to his mom, 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.480 Doren on social media, and after covering the case, I 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:40.360 remember how grateful she was that I had nailed down 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.680 all the moving parts and people and motivations at play 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.400 in John's story. You know, it's one of those cases 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.520 where you have to understand the misconduct more than the 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.800 incident itself. And so that was twenty twenty three, and 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.920 since then, Doreen and I we make time to see 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.120 each other. Every once in a while, we have meals together. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.000 She introduces me to other folks in this community, journalists 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:06.400 and exonarees legal advocates. I think she also introduced me 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.720 to James Henning, who brought us Carl Miller's case, who 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.600 was just recently exonerated, and James eventually became John's new lawyer. 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.240 Now where we left off in twenty twenty three, it 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.240 seemed like the best bet for John was petitioning the 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.120 New York Governor to take jurisdiction away from Brooklyn and 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.040 give it to a special prosecutor. I mean, that's how 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.359 little faith they had at attaining justice here in Brooklyn. 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.400 But James Henning has pulled off a miracle in John's 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.640 case and gotten him back into court with newly discovered evidence. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.560 Another recantation, and I'll tell you about that during this 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.640 new edit of John Jukea's episode. Used to be in 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.320 two parts, Now it's one, Okay. Anyway, I'll be popping 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.240 back in when the time comes to better explain where 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:54.320 things stand for John. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.519 On October eleventh, two thousand and three, three three groups 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.600 of college kids, one from Long Island, another from Brooklyn 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.160 as well as New Jersey, ran into one another at 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.840 a bar on the Upper East side of Manhattan. A 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:13.360 mutual friend among them, Angel DiPietro, New Brooklyn night Albert Cleary, 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.960 as well as her Fairfield University classmate Mark Fisher, a 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.600 football player from New Jersey. When the Knight started to 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.919 wind down and all of the trains a Long Island 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.080 and New Jersey had stopped running, Albert Cleary's friend, twenty 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.720 year old John Juca offered up his house in Flatbush, 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:32.079 Brooklyn for an after party and a place to crash. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.120 A few of John and Albert's friends joined, including a 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:40.280 neighborhood tough guy named Antonio Russo. Sometime before six am, 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:44.040 Angel and Albert walked to his nearby house. Since Angel 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.600 was the only person Mark Fisher knew, he left to 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.080 find his way over to Albert's with Antonio Russo and 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.400 soon ended up fatally shot without his wallet on the 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.520 driveway across from Albert Cleary's house, a blanket from John's 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:01.360 house at its feet. In the immediate aftermas Antonio Russo 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.520 cut his dreadlocks and absconded to California. A police investigation 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.520 revealed that other voices at a car door were heard 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.400 before the gunshots. Albert and Angel denied any knowledge, and 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.120 soon statements were made that alleged that John Juca was involved. 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.039 The motivations and level of involvement varied, but with this 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.440 many witnesses placing blame on John. There had to be 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:37.720 something to it. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.919 to wrongful conviction. Today. We have a story that was 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.040 front page news all over in New York City when 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:47.040 it happened with flaring headlines, salacious headlines about wanna be 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.680 Brooklyn gangsters who allegedly conspired at an after party to 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.919 kill a suburban college football star who just happened to 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.839 be in their midst, when in fact, there were no gangsters, 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.680 only a group of friends and and the murder was 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.080 not a group effort at all. The only group effort 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.159 here took the form of multiple conflicting false statements against 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.320 a member of that group, John Juca, and John is 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.880 calling in from prison in upstate New York right now. 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.920 I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, but we're very 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:16.720 honored to have you. 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:17.159 Thank you. 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.560 The only good news in this whole, miserable story is 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.599 that his attorney is Mark Betra. Welcome to ronful conviction. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.000 Glad to be here, Thanks for having me and Mark. 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.159 Why was this such a high profile case? 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.080 This was a big one. I mean, at the time 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.560 I was a prosecutor in Manhattan. It was in the 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.600 fall of two thousand and three. It felt like there 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.200 was an update on this flawed investigation every day. It 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.200 was the grid Kid murder case. Because Mark Fisher was 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.760 a nineteen year old, good looking college football player from 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.000 New Jersey who went to Brooklyn for the first time 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:54.200 in his life and unfortunately he ended up dead on 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:59.799 the street. The grid Kid murder case became sensational from day. 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.159 One when that moniker actually referred to the admitted grid 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.720 Kid killer, John's co defendant, Antonio Russo. But somehow John's 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:12.479 face was also plastered on the front page of tabloids 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.600 as if he was some sort of criminal mastermind or 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:21.640 co conspirator to somehow actually involved. The prosecution never actually 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.039 decided on any one theory. They just put all this 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.680 stuff out there and the press ate it up and 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:31.000 polluted the jury pool. Now, don't forget the HBO series 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.440 The Sopranos was an absolute cultural phenomenon at this time. 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.360 By the time his trial came around, you actually had 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.320 the prosecutor comparing him to Tony Soprano and talking about 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:45.119 ordering hits to build up street credibility for a non 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.440 existent gang, which in fact was just a bunch of 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.880 knucklehead teenagers in Brooklyn calling themselves names. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.480 And this alleged gang was called the ghetto Mafia. Right, So, John, 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.800 what exactly was the ghetto Mafia? 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.040 Oh? My god, we had some people who used to 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:02.960 hang out with us who never even heard of that name. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.120 Some people who considered it a joke, and there were 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.479 other people who didn't. One thing was never was an 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:10.320 actual gang. 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.040 John was just a regular, you know, nineteen year old 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:13.920 Brooklyn kid. 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.760 So let's talk about your life before all of this, John, 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:18.360 you grew up in Flatbush, Brooklyn. 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.280 Right, It's like a little enclave in flat Bush called 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.880 Prospect Park South. I guess you could say I grew 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.640 up in a regular, middle class upbringing. First, I went 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.960 to public school PS one thirty nine. Then I went 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.080 to Catholic school around third grade when my mother met 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:32.760 my stepfather. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:34.320 So your parents broke up when you were. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.720 Young, Yes, when I was five years old my stepfather, 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.280 but considered him like my father. Also, I didn't look 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.640 at it as a negative thing. Really, My real father 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.280 went on to get married again, and that woman who 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.600 he married already had kids, so he had a family 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.120 over there too, and I considered them family. Also. I 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.400 looked at it as I had two fathers, like two 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.920 men in my life who loved me and wanted to 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:55.360 see me succeed and supported me. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.720 And your biological father ended up suffering a stroke when 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.760 you were nineteen, which ended up having relevance in this case. 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:03.960 But at that time, like you said, both he and 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:06.760 your stepdad were supportive of you. You were trying to 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.200 succeed as an actor and actually got some work as 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:09.840 a teenager. 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.840 Yeah. I was on School of Rock. I got to 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.480 meet Jack Black, the guys from Law and Order. I 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.880 was in Lawn Order like ten times. I played a 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.040 dead kid on Law and Order. I remember one funny 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.560 story that I'm on Law and Order and I'm the 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:23.560 dead kids. I'm laying on the pavement and I have 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.920 fake blood all over my head and everything, and I 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.520 remember the two actors, Jerry or Back and the other one, 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.719 Chris not Yeah, and they have to kneel down and 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.000 search my pockets. I have a pair of keys, so 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.040 Jerry Orbank kneels down and he kneels right on the 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.520 keys and he's son of a bitch and they're like cut. 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.280 And then I had to smoke some weed before I went, 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.720 and this is not part of script. And he goes 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:53.840 it smells like marijuana, and they're like cut, Andy, what 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.080 are you talking about. He's like, I don't know, it 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.960 smells like marijuana. And my stepfather's looking at me like, 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:00.560 oh my god, I'm gonna fuck kill. 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:04.160 You and Jerry orback rest in peace. And your stepfather 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.800 was there too, So it sounds like you had this great, 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:10.120 sort of blended Brady bunch sort of a family situation. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.880 And the woman at the center of it your mom, Doreen. 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.560 I know her from rallies and events and calls and texts, 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.000 and she's just a pillar of strength and somebody I 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:22.200 admired greatly. 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.319 Yeah, she always told me that law enforcement was a 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.199 good guy. I remember this growing up. She was encouraging 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.360 me to go to John j encouraging me to become 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.559 a comp Her brother is a correctional So my uncle Eddie. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.840 That's another crazy irony about your story, which is that 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.520 while you were pursuing an acting career, you were also 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:41.880 studying criminal justice at John Jay College. 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.280 Yes, and what you learn about the criminal justice system 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.480 in school is just one hundred and eighty degrees from 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.000 the reality. They say that you have all these rights, 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.280 and they're not going to arrest people unless this standard 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.760 is mad, and then they don't get convicted unless this 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:57.920 standard is mat and on. It's just none of that 0:09:58.040 --> 0:09:58.480 is true. 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.040 Yeah, you saw those standards go out the window pretty 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.680 quickly when the false statements that were used to obtain 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.600 your arrest, warrant, and conviction didn't even form a cohesive narrative. Now, 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.000 one of the people who gave false testimony against you 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.959 was your girlfriend at the time, Lauren Calciano. Now we're 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.800 going to read from her recantation later. But you two 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:17.559 had started dating in high school. Right. 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.439 She was my first love. I was with hers since 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.040 I was about I don't know, fifteen or sixteen. Why 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.679 you used to practically live at her house sometimes I 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:26.679 knew her whole family. 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.360 You ended up hiring her family's attorney, Sam Gregory, who 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.160 had previously represented her father, Sal Calciano. 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:35.840 He was head of maintenance in the World Trade Center. 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.800 He went to Federal prisons because the World Trade Center 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.120 got robbed. They said it was about four million Americans. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:42.199 This is in the nineties. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.319 Sometimes, for whatever her father's mistakes were, the DA was 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.920 eventually able to use her father's situation, among other things, 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.480 in order to coerce her false testimony against you. They 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.920 were also able to coerce or incentivize your friend Albert 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.760 Cleary as well, who was arguably closer to this incident 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.640 than you were. Albert's mother, Susan Cleary, was the vice 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.680 president of the King's County GOP Executive Committee, the group 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.600 in Brooklyn that can authorize what is known as a 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.360 Wilson pacula, which allows a candidate from another party to 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.960 run on that party's ticket, and it can be used 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.920 in order to run unopposed or in the case when 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.000 a candidate loses their party's primary election. Whether or not 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.280 that was a bargaining ship used to keep her son's 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.360 name out of the investigation, that's something we'll never know. 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.800 A lot of people say the system is broken. I 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.880 don't think it's broken. I think it's working exactly how 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.480 they intended it to work, as like a battering ramp 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:34.480 for the rich and powerful. 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.040 Yeah, and as we've seen in cases like yours, the 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.320 prosecutor's office will use high profile cases for publicity with 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.199 the hope of reaping those benefits come election time. Now, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.600 back in two thousand and three, the DA was Charles 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.040 Joe Hines. Now, anyone who's familiar with our podcast is 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.600 familiar with the problems in Brooklyn during the Hinz era 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:53.960 nineteen ninety to twenty thirteen. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.959 Maybe in the last ten or fifteen years when people 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.160 have really been paying attention to the problem of wrongful convictions. 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.000 But I think a lot of the momentum on this 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.560 really started when people like Ken Thompson were running against 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:11.120 Hines ten years ago and exposing bad case after bad case. 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:12.320 And this is exhibit A. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.280 And many of the people who worked under Hines, who 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.679 were responsible and complicit and so many of the wrongful 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.760 convictions of that era are still there today. And those 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.320 who have moved on to private practice or even careers 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.000 in media, like the trial prosecutor in this case, Anna 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:31.080 Segon Nickolazzi, those former heinz Adas, their reputations in public 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.679 fates are arguably tied to the political fate of the 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:35.920 Brooklyn DA's office. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.800 In terms of the graduates of the Hines DA's office, 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.560 this trial prosecutor was their superstar. She's on TV today 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.280 as an expert on everything that's right in criminal justice, 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.559 and it would have been humiliating for the Brooklyn DA 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:51.560 to take her down. 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.120 Why would anyone be proud of sending an innocent man 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.600 to prison and effectively compounding the tragic loss of another 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.400 young man's life. So let's get to the incident the 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.000 crux of everything we're discussing the awful night of October 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.720 eleventh into the twelfth of two thousand and three. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.760 It was Columbus Day weekend. Mark Fisher, who went to 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.280 Fairfield University in Connecticut and some of his friends went 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.160 to the city and partied. John Juca and his friend 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.640 Albert Cleary and a few others also went to the city, 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.600 and the groups ended up being connected through a very 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:31.640 interesting person in this sordid process named Angel DiPietro, who 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.880 was a college classmate and theoretically friend of Mark Fisher, 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.760 who also was friendly with Albert Cleary. 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.840 So you had the Brooklyn contingent, which was John, Albert Cleary, 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.760 and two more neighborhood friends, Angel di Pietro and her 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.719 friend Meredith Denahan from Long Island and Mark Fisher who 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.480 had come in from New Jersey, and they met at 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.160 a bar on the Upper east side of Manhattan, which 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.600 at the time was known to college kids for being 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.880 the home of many bars that had pretty loose id policies. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.439 And so now it was getting late and the Long 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.680 Island and New Jersey kids had to figure out a 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:06.600 way home on the train. 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.080 The last train left the next one didn't leave till 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.920 sometime the next morning, so they were stranded. So I 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.760 opened my house to them. In the cab it was me, Albert, 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.600 Mary Mark, and Angel. Me and Albert paid for the cab, 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.240 and then after we got there, a few more people 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.080 showed up. I'm pretty sure it was Tommy. Jimmy, my 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.440 brother was home, and then Antonio Russo. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.200 Russo had a house right behind John, so they were 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:32.840 certainly friendly from the neighborhood. 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:37.400 Now, Antonio Russo was a strongly built high school dropout 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.400 who wore dreadlocks and sold weed, which was the reason 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.560 he gave for coming over to John's house in a 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.400 twenty eighteen interview with the cops to sell weed to 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.200 some of those who were interested, and according to three people, 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.640 Russo had a gun in his waistband both before and 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.320 after the murder. One of those three people said they 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:55.120 had been threatened with it. 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.160 He's the tough guy. He's a little bit crazy, not 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.800 in the legal sense, just in the real world sense, 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:02.840 making everyone uncomfortable. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.400 But for now he's supplying weed to this otherwise fun 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.480 after party at John's house. Now, what's nice about Antonio 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.520 Russo's statement to detectives in twenty eighteen. Is that it 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:17.080 takes some of the guest work out of what actually happened. Now, 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.200 Russo said that he and Fisher went to the ATM 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.480 together so Fisher could buy weed. Their re seat said 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.680 for twenty three, but according to the bank it was 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.160 an hour behind. This was five twenty three am. So 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.360 Russo and Fisher returned to John's house a little after that. Now, 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.800 Albert and Angel were there when they returned, so they 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.800 soon left together to go to Albert's which was only 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:40.880 a couple of blocks away. 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.520 They were there when they came back from the ATM. Yes, 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.280 and then they slip out. They say they said goodbye 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.880 to people, but I don't remember them saying goodbye to anybody. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:50.960 I just remember them disappearing. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.480 Without merit of the remark. By the way, both of 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:54.760 whom had a reasonable expectation that they'd be sticking with 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.320 Angel and Albert, which was their only connection to this 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.160 after party. Now we're not sure why they were left behind, 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:05.200 but nonetheless, Meredith had fallen asleep and before Mark actually 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.680 did you called Albert at five fifty seven am to 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.840 let him know that Mark was on his way over, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.440 and then Russo left with him. Correct now, it was 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.240 cold out right, so Mark asked John if you could 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.960 take the blanket that he had draped over his shoulders. 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.640 And that becomes an interesting topic of conversation or evidence, 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.280 if you could call it that later on. What we 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:27.880 know is that forty minutes later, Mark Fisher was shot 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.560 and killed in front of one fifty Argyle Road, which 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:32.760 was just a few blocks from John's house and directly 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.800 across the street from Albert's correct now, according to Google Maps, 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.560 this is about a five minute walk less than a 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.960 quarter of a mile, so we're not sure what happened 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.360 in those other thirty five minutes. The free floating radicals, 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.240 if you will, are Mark Fisher, Antonio Russo, Angel Di Pietro, 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:50.240 and Albert Cleary. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.000 The people who lived on Argyle Road, they heard voices, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.160 and the woman whose bedroom was right above the driveway 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.280 where Mark was found, car doors opening and closing, also 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:06.199 heard young voices, and she was adamant that one of 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.240 those was a female voice. 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.840 Right the ocupant of one point fifty Argyle, wrote Hiroko 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.280 Swornick said that she was awakened by her dog barking 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.120 and heard the sound of a car door opening and shutting. 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.959 Swornick went on to say that the view from her 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.040 second story window was obstructed by foliage, but she heard 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.600 more than two young people talking. The conversation specifically did 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.840 not sound like an argument, and one of the voices 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.520 was female. She said that she went back to bed, 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.840 and a bit later she and her husband heard gunshots 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:39.439 and called police. Now from Russo's twenty eighteen detectives report, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.520 Russo said that while on Argyle Road, he pulled out 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.520 his German Luger nine millimeter, which belonged to him and 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.040 him alone. He took Fisher's wallet and told him to 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.560 run before firing a shot at the ground to let 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.720 Fisher know that the gun was real and loaded. He 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.800 then fired a shot at Fisher, who fell to the ground. 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.959 When Fisher asked him why he had shot him, Russo 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.600 emptied his clip into him, killing him on the spot. 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.960 The blanket from John's house lay underneath his feet mark 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.639 Fisher's body had been shot five times. 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:13.960 They did a canvas of the neighborhood. Some people said 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.920 that they hurt shots and also saw a dark colored 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:19.040 car speeding away. 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:21.720 Now Russo said that there was a woman in a 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.840 car who could identify him. When he was fleeing the scene, 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.720 he got rid of the wallet at a sewer near his house. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.000 It was later recovered by police. Now, immediately after the crime, 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.720 Antonio Russo did a few things that a guilty person might. 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:36.720 He used to wear braids and whole life, and he 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:37.480 shaved his head. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.760 Russo then decides to take a vacation in California for 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.359 a month and just disappear. 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.439 And it'll become clear that Russo's twenty eighteen account is 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.959 definitely missing a few details. But what is absolutely certain 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.280 is that he said he did this alone with his 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:54.000 own gun. 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:59.480 Our working theory has always been that Albert and Angel 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:04.399 stuck mumbled in to Russo doing something bad and didn't 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.520 want to get involved in coming after him because he's 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.800 a monster. Russo said he saw a girl. The neighbors 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.440 heard a girl. By their own admission, Albert and Angel 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.000 are across the street, now, wouldn't you know it? Who 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.360 do you think the only people on the block when 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.520 they interviewed people at the houses who said they didn't 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:22.160 hear anything. 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.040 I've been to this neighborhood and the neighbors driveways are 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.560 maybe at most twenty thirty yards across the street from 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:28.800 the other neighbor's front doors. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:35.480 The morning after the murder, Albert and Angel quickly decamped 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:39.119 to her Long Island home, where they hung out with 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.919 her father all day, a place Cleary had never been before. 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.640 And Angel's father, James D. Pietro, was a prominent defense attorney. 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:51.119 He's a prominent lawyer, frequent financial donor close friend to Hines. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.000 Interestingly, Angel had plans to follow in her dad's footsteps 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:56.440 and later passed the bar. 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.280 And then a short time later she gets hired as 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.000 a prosecutor, to the point where her and Nicolozzi are 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:03.520 colleagues for years. 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.280 You can't make this up, so okay, So back to 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.000 the immediate aftermath. At around ten am that morning, Angel 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.800 began receiving phone calls from family and friends of Mark Fisher, 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.760 and she told them that Meredith Denahan had given Mark 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.280 trainfair and he had taken a train around eight or 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.399 nine am. Angel also told detectives that she had spoken 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.399 e Meredith on the morning of October twelfth, who allegedly 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:28.480 told her that Mark had woken John up around six 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.240