Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host, Joshua Tepolski,
Speaker 1: and I have to admit something to everyone listening. Gotta
Speaker 1: tell you something. It's not something I talk about a lot.
Speaker 1: It's not something that I like to put out there
Speaker 1: very much. It's very private. But I'm a gamer. You know,
Speaker 1: some people might not know that about me, But I
Speaker 1: like video games and I play them on a regular basis,
Speaker 1: and you know, to be honest with you, I have
Speaker 1: not gotten much of a chance on this podcast to
Speaker 1: talk about my love of gaming and my status as
Speaker 1: an official gamer in the landscape of other gamers, and
Speaker 1: so I was hoping and thinking for a long time
Speaker 1: about having someone on who I could really get into
Speaker 1: it with about video games, both past, present and future.
Speaker 1: So the man that immediately came to mind is Washington
Speaker 1: Post journalist Gene Park, who is hilarious on Twitter and
Speaker 1: other social media platforms and is super smart and interesting
Speaker 1: when it comes to I would say adult commentary on
Speaker 1: video games, because there's a lot of commentary and video games.
Speaker 1: It's not that it's not adult, but it's not quite
Speaker 1: at the level that I desire my video game commentary
Speaker 1: to be. That said, there's also a lot of great
Speaker 1: video game journalism out there, and a lot of great
Speaker 1: ethics and video game journalism, which I'm excited about always.
Speaker 1: So we got Gene. We said, well, you do the podcast.
Speaker 1: I didn't do any of this. This is my producers
Speaker 1: and Jean said, yes, I guess, and so we got
Speaker 1: him here to talk about game and all sorts of
Speaker 1: other stuff, but mostly about video games. So I'm very
Speaker 1: excited about this. I have a feeling that we're going
Speaker 1: to connect on a deep level and I want to
Speaker 1: get into it. So let's go. So first off, I
Speaker 1: think we follow each other on a variety of social networks.
Speaker 1: Have we ever met in person?
Speaker 2: No, I don't believe so, and I believe this is
Speaker 2: the first time we're actually talking face to face, so
Speaker 2: with our voices. Josh, nice to meet you. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: nice to meet you too. And I really love following you.
Speaker 1: I think you're a person who first off, you're like
Speaker 1: a poster, you know, like you know how to post,
Speaker 1: like you're like an original poster. I don't know how
Speaker 1: long you've been like in journalism. I think it's been
Speaker 1: a pretty long time. Like I want to say, your
Speaker 1: career in journalism is significantly longer than mine. When did
Speaker 1: you start, like as a journalist.
Speaker 2: Well, I've been posting since high school in the mid nineties, right, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's where my posting abilities come from. I'm originally
Speaker 2: from the Pacific Island and American territory of Guam. And
Speaker 2: in Guam during the nineties, there was one chat room
Speaker 2: and that was where everyone who had Internet on Guam
Speaker 2: was going to congregate and talk and gossip and flirt
Speaker 2: and whatever.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And when I was in high school, I was the
Speaker 2: moderator of that chat room.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, so wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I had the entire nation of Guam like
Speaker 2: like online, like at my fingertips. It was a lot
Speaker 2: of power for a fifteen year old.
Speaker 1: Who knows that's a huge amount of power. I actually
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a similar well not quite that.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, like for all of Guam. I think that's
Speaker 1: very impressive. Pittsburgh didn't have a lot of like there
Speaker 1: was in the mid nineties, Like there was only one
Speaker 1: I think maybe one ISP besides like things like Prodigy
Speaker 1: and whatever. There was like Prodigy and AOL and and
Speaker 1: it was called tele And I worked there as a
Speaker 1: teen in like customer support, and I also coined a
Speaker 1: great piece of ad copy for them, which was tell
Speaker 1: a Rama, tell your Mama, which I thought was frankly,
Speaker 1: an incredible troke of genius. Anyhow, but I get it.
Speaker 1: I was online at a very young age, way too young,
Speaker 1: I think I was on the first time I was
Speaker 1: actually on the internet, I was like twelve. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: don't know how old you are, and I'm not, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to force you to tell me.
Speaker 1: But I'm forty one. Okay, Oh you're a little younger
Speaker 1: than me. I'm forty five, and so I've been online
Speaker 1: for a long time anyhow.
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure I was online in twelve. So
Speaker 2: you were online longer, and you've been a live longer too.
Speaker 1: I have been a live longer. That is a fact.
Speaker 1: You can't this irrefutable unless you talk to like RFK Junior,
Speaker 1: who will tell you that's wrong. And here's why.
Speaker 2: But to answer your original question, I started journalism right
Speaker 2: after college. I graduated college in two thousand and three
Speaker 2: and I went back to Guam to work at the
Speaker 2: paper there.
Speaker 1: And that's how long I've been working, so twenty years.
Speaker 1: So twenty years. Yeah, so I think that's probably. I
Speaker 1: mean I really started like blogging two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, like is when I really started,
Speaker 1: so like at end gadget. So anyhow long and short
Speaker 1: is you're great at posting, and I like following you.
Speaker 1: I've been obviously like Twitter now sucks and it's horrible
Speaker 1: and we all want to leave it as soon as
Speaker 1: humanly possible. But one thing that you do that I
Speaker 1: really enjoy is you engage with people, which is great.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like obviously can sometimes be to
Speaker 1: your detriment, but like you know, you will you know,
Speaker 1: answer people who are I feel like, kind of being
Speaker 1: like asses or at least respond to them in some way,
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of asses on Twitter. And
Speaker 1: you also like just talk about stuff and like you
Speaker 1: post stuff that's like very like real and honest about
Speaker 1: like you know, personal stuff, but also like your thoughts
Speaker 1: on the industry like that you cover. And so I
Speaker 1: enjoy it and I followed you for a long time
Speaker 1: and it's always strange, like to like finally like talk
Speaker 1: to a person who you think you know, you think
Speaker 1: I think I know you, Like I know a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff about you. I'd like know your work, but
Speaker 1: we don't really know each other. We don't know what
Speaker 1: could happen here. A lot of people have met me
Speaker 1: in real life and they would pretty much say, yeah,
Speaker 1: you seem to be what I expected, and that's what
Speaker 1: I hope for. I'm an elder millennial, right like you?
Speaker 1: So or you, I guess you're gen X. I'm gen X. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just right on the coast.
Speaker 2: But like gen X and millennial, I guess right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But I have no energy to put up a persona online.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I can't be another character online, you know. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: character that you see is the character that you get.
Speaker 2: I'm if I seem loud, I'm actually loud in real life.
Speaker 2: If I seem a little shy, and that's what I
Speaker 2: feel like being shy in real life. Right, It's pretty much.
Speaker 1: What what do you expect? So, yeah, no, I think
Speaker 1: that's actually like, I think that is a generational thing
Speaker 1: to some extent. I feel that very strongly. It's actually
Speaker 1: very hard, and in fact, the producers of this show
Speaker 1: will tell you. I think there's a little slight like
Speaker 1: frustrating element of I'm like not self promotional and I
Speaker 1: don't like to affect a vibe of whatever it is
Speaker 1: I'm not actually feeling, you know, and like it's interesting
Speaker 1: joining all these new social networks now, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to like play around with them, like blue Sky and
Speaker 1: mask it On and now obviously Threads, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what do I want to post here? Honestly, lately, a
Speaker 1: lot of it is like I don't want to post anything.
Speaker 1: I kind of don't feel like engaging. It's like, God,
Speaker 1: the idea of like, I don't know, are you on threads?
Speaker 1: You must be?
Speaker 2: I think I follow you are Actually you probably follow
Speaker 2: each other. I'm not really active there right now.
Speaker 1: But right are you? Like? Oh god, now I have
Speaker 1: to like do threads? Like is that a thing that
Speaker 1: you feel daunted by? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I'm before I cover video games, I want to have
Speaker 2: been covering video games for three years. So just to
Speaker 2: be clear, a lot of people think that I've been
Speaker 2: in the games industry for a long time. We're covering
Speaker 2: the beat for a long time.
Speaker 1: You've only been doing for three years.
Speaker 2: It's only been three years, just like two and a
Speaker 2: half years.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: But before that, I was a social media and audience
Speaker 2: editor to Washington Post. And part of the reason why
Speaker 2: I'm glad I'm not at that job anymore is because
Speaker 2: I can't keep up with all these platforms anymore. You know,
Speaker 2: TikTok is one that I've just given up on. It's
Speaker 2: a completely different language. Again, Like you would need to
Speaker 2: be a different persona for that platform.
Speaker 1: And you have to like produce video for it. Like
Speaker 1: that's the problem for me, is like I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just don't want to like have to
Speaker 1: make a video, you know, being self promotional on video too, right, Yes, no,
Speaker 1: it's very cringe in my in my opinion, there's just
Speaker 1: a high level of cringe. Now, you and I may
Speaker 1: have a different like radar for cringe. We may think
Speaker 1: things are cringey as we might have referred to them
Speaker 1: at an earlier era. Now they've just shortened it. They're
Speaker 1: just taking off letters. But I see a lot of stuff,
Speaker 1: and I see people who are like, you know, some
Speaker 1: people who are like contemporaries of mine. Not that many
Speaker 1: certainly around this age. But and I'm like, like, I
Speaker 1: don't I wouldn't post that like personally, like that doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like a thing i'd do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, me too. I have a lot of friends
Speaker 2: my age on TikTok and I'm watching them and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I really like your content, and
Speaker 2: I don't know if everybody works. You know, It's it's
Speaker 2: I wouldn't tell them this in their face, but I'm
Speaker 2: a little embarrassed, you know, right, right, No, No.
Speaker 1: It's it's wild when you like see somebody that you
Speaker 1: know pretty well and then you see them on TikTok
Speaker 1: and like you're.
Speaker 2: Like, oh yeah, and it's like, I know you don't
Speaker 2: do these dances in real life, you know.
Speaker 1: Right, It's like I got a life this now, because
Speaker 1: otherwise it is going to seem really weird. Like you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you don't want to bring it up,
Speaker 1: but anyhow, so you're good. You're good at posting. I'm
Speaker 1: actually very curious now. I thought, for some reason, you've
Speaker 1: been covering games longer. I think perhaps it is because
Speaker 1: I feel like your voice on it is very authoritative.
Speaker 1: I think like you have really interesting commentary and sort
Speaker 1: of like a perspective on gaming that I find to
Speaker 1: be you know, I mean, I think I assume it
Speaker 1: goes out saying that you're a lifelong gamer. Am I am?
Speaker 2: I correct and understanding that. Yeah, thanks for saying that.
Speaker 2: It's funny that you say that, because earlier today I
Speaker 2: actually did a training with a bunch of our Washington
Speaker 2: Post interns. One of my biggest pieces of advice. Well,
Speaker 2: they were asking me why I sound so authoritative, And
Speaker 2: part of that is because of my long history of
Speaker 2: just reporting in other topics crime courts, local city council,
Speaker 2: state government, and transportation, education, right, a lot of factual
Speaker 2: based stuff. So I was able to like really strengthen
Speaker 2: my writing voice in that way. And also, plus, I'm
Speaker 2: a lifelong gamer, so so if I'm authoritative on something
Speaker 2: like fucking traffic or something, imagine how authoritative I might
Speaker 2: sound if it's something that I actually like and I've
Speaker 2: been liking and doing for it since i was six
Speaker 2: years old, you know, right.
Speaker 1: I think there's part of it is one hundred percent
Speaker 1: what you just said. It's like you have this experience
Speaker 1: in all these other places where like and you know,
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the things that's been
Speaker 1: lacking and gaming for so long, is like taking it seriously,
Speaker 1: like it's like this is serious, like it is important.
Speaker 1: Like I think gaming is really important. I think it's
Speaker 1: like the most exciting, like newest art form that exists,
Speaker 1: and there's nothing else like it in the world. And
Speaker 1: like to have the perspective to report on it well
Speaker 1: and to talk about it thoughtfully. I think what you've
Speaker 1: done previously clearly like adds to it anyhow, So obviously
Speaker 1: I think you're great. I've been just been a compliment
Speaker 1: fest for the whole beginning of this. We can talk
Speaker 1: about this decision with Microsoft and Activision. Pretend somebody's listening
Speaker 1: is and they have no idea what's going on with
Speaker 1: Microsoft and Activision, and like the legal system that is
Speaker 1: like trying to regulate what they're doing, Could you like
Speaker 1: explain it in a very simple way. Sure? Sure.
Speaker 2: So Microsoft has the Xbox division, which which you know,
Speaker 2: creates the games and makes the game consoles, and Xbox
Speaker 2: has been kind of struggling in terms of producing content
Speaker 2: to feed that ecosystem. Right now, Xbox wants to be
Speaker 2: the quote unquote Netflix of games, so they have a
Speaker 2: service called game Pass where you subscribe for at least
Speaker 2: or at most fifteen dollars a month, and at least
Speaker 2: it's a dollar a month depending on what kind of
Speaker 2: deals you get. You get access and you're able to
Speaker 2: download a smortgage board of video games probably about two
Speaker 2: hundred wrote rotin library video games and.
Speaker 1: You just get to play them for a dollar a month.
Speaker 2: They could be it could be as low as a
Speaker 2: dollar a month if you just like buy it Xbox
Speaker 2: and you like use a free coupon like in the
Speaker 2: box or whatever could deal. It could be a dollar
Speaker 2: could be fun. I think they re actually raised it
Speaker 2: to two bucks now, so you know, oh no, oh no.
Speaker 1: That's not bad, right, Okay, So it's like in all
Speaker 1: you can eat, Like it's like games you can stream
Speaker 1: and down can stream and download it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean that's the difference between this and Netflix is
Speaker 2: that like you can actually download the games and it'll
Speaker 2: be in your hardware. You won't own it, right, you
Speaker 2: can still buy it, which is a nice thing. You
Speaker 2: can't really buy stranger things off Netflix, right.
Speaker 1: Like everything on Netflix is like you're leasing it for
Speaker 1: the duration that you view it and then yeah, it
Speaker 1: goes back into the back to their servers or whatever. Exactly.
Speaker 2: So about a year and a half ago, Microsoft announced
Speaker 2: that well they've been on an acquisition acquisition spree where
Speaker 2: they've been buying video game studios up and their last
Speaker 2: big acquisition was but there's a game Studios which they
Speaker 2: acquire for seven million dollars. And these are the guys
Speaker 2: who make the Elder Scrolls games. I'm sure many of
Speaker 2: your listeners know the game Skyrim, Fallout, Fallout right, and
Speaker 2: then upcoming my favorite Fallout three Star Fuel coming out
Speaker 2: this spot, right. And then so Microsoft announced about a
Speaker 2: year and a half go that they were going to
Speaker 2: buy Activision Blizzard King for the tune of sixty nine
Speaker 2: billion dollars, easily theges gaming acquisition ever, the biggest tech
Speaker 2: tech acquisition.
Speaker 1: Is that, right, It's the biggest tech acquisition ever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that's actually said in the decision. But
Speaker 2: then there's of course, like you know Disney buying Fox
Speaker 2: and that was like one hundreds over one hundred billion dollars,
Speaker 2: I believe, and then AT and T buying Warner, which
Speaker 2: was also just like a little bit bigger. So it's
Speaker 2: definitely on that scale. I think it's probably like the
Speaker 2: six to seven biggest acquisition of all time. That's crazy.
Speaker 2: And then so an acquisition that big would fall under
Speaker 2: a lot of regulatory scrutiny. So various different regulatory bodies
Speaker 2: around the world are looking at the deal and they've
Speaker 2: mostly approved it. I think it's basically thirty nine countries
Speaker 2: that improved it. Right now, the only one pending is
Speaker 2: the UK with their Competitive Markets Authority and the FTC.
Speaker 2: So the FTC filed suit for preliminary injunction basically a
Speaker 2: temporary restraining order on the deal to stop it, basically
Speaker 2: signing anti trust concerns. FTC Commissioner Lena Kahan, you know,
Speaker 2: has built her career on anti trust legislating and this
Speaker 2: was a big deal for her. Yeah, So the FTC
Speaker 2: try to sue Microsoft had They had hearings in San
Speaker 2: Francisco Federal Court for the last few weeks and the
Speaker 2: judge sided against the FTC and basically said there's no
Speaker 2: reason to hold this up and we can go into
Speaker 2: those reasons more later if you want. But that's basically
Speaker 2: what happens. So it is pretty clear a green light
Speaker 2: for the deal to go ahead, and the deal is
Speaker 2: supposed to close July eighteenth.
Speaker 1: Right the FTC is there's some have they already countered
Speaker 1: or sorry appealed or are going to appeal. They have
Speaker 1: already apeled Yeah, they appealed, but.
Speaker 2: You know, as my understanding is, that's just procedural and also,
Speaker 2: you know, appeals to rarely ever win.
Speaker 1: You know, so so Activision Blizzard King Is that the
Speaker 1: full name of the business, Is that correct?
Speaker 2: The king part is important because the king part is
Speaker 2: the one that makes candy crush. That's the real moneymaker
Speaker 2: along with call of duty. You know, is candy crusherly like,
Speaker 2: is is it? I haven't like looked at these numbers
Speaker 2: in a while. It's it's still popular, right, Okay, wow?
Speaker 2: Interesting then you look I mean, I listen.
Speaker 1: I think like when you get right down to it,
Speaker 1: there's only a few things that really stick on a phone,
Speaker 1: Like there's really in the history, Like when it comes
Speaker 1: to like this shit, like, there's gonna be a few
Speaker 1: things and it's gonna be like yeah, like candy Crush
Speaker 1: will just be there forever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, candy Crust is still popular, but a lot of
Speaker 2: people don't really talk about it. It's like keta mean,
Speaker 2: like you don't really understand like how prevalament it is
Speaker 2: until you see someone.
Speaker 3: Like oh, okay, people are still doing this, okay, till
Speaker 3: you get a bump and you're like, hey, actually this
Speaker 3: is terrific.
Speaker 1: Why don't I why I do this all the time.
Speaker 1: That's what the case sounds for an ABK right, yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So they make Candy Crush, they make the Call of
Speaker 1: Duty series, which is a very very popular propaganda for
Speaker 1: the US military, perhaps perhaps the single most effective piece
Speaker 1: of propaganda that has ever been created in service of
Speaker 1: convincing people that the US military rocks. Not saying that
Speaker 1: the military is bad, but I think the military industrial
Speaker 1: complex is not great, you know, just really speaking. But anyhow,
Speaker 1: call of Duty? What else do they make? What I mean,
Speaker 1: give me another do they make what's the new that's
Speaker 1: on the blizzard side?
Speaker 2: And they make World of Warcraft, which I'm sure a
Speaker 2: lot of people Okay that was a phenomenon a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago, used to.
Speaker 1: Be popular, but now it's waned slightly. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Activision also owns a Crash Bandicoot of.
Speaker 1: Course, the lucrative Crash Bandicoot franchise.
Speaker 2: And goes own the Tony Hawkfeedeo games too.
Speaker 1: So all right, Tony Hawk, that's but you know, kind
Speaker 1: of honestly, like so here's where it words rom getty like, Yes,
Speaker 1: these games are obviously very well known, successful, huge moneymakers.
Speaker 1: But even with all of those titles, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and even with Bethesda, like Sony still seems to have
Speaker 1: like the better games. And my understanding is that part
Speaker 1: of this deal, they're not saying like we're not going
Speaker 1: to release Call of Duty for the PlayStation right. In fact,
Speaker 1: like they kind of have to make some kind of
Speaker 1: commitment to releasing those games eventually, right, Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did have to commit to that, and they've
Speaker 2: also said that it would make monetary sense to continue
Speaker 2: to make it because you know, one I did, one
Speaker 2: of the biggest audiences for Call of Duty is on PlayStations,
Speaker 2: so they would probably lose money of the life they
Speaker 2: decided to stop it.
Speaker 1: So so so yeah, So, like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: publishers that have a lot of really popular games. I guess,
Speaker 1: like you know, on the Sony side, like Sony as
Speaker 1: a as a publisher in and of itself, it is
Speaker 1: probably responsible for some of the most popular titles, and
Speaker 1: like I don't know, Like I guess the Sony also
Speaker 1: own a bunch of studios like I actually don't remember
Speaker 1: they do the most.
Speaker 2: Notably they own Naughty Dog and the makers of Last
Speaker 2: of Us.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, about incredible.
Speaker 2: While ago, I think doing the PlayStation three era, they
Speaker 2: made the Uncharted games, which is basically you know, millennial
Speaker 2: Indiana Jones, right, oh yes, and then they own in
Speaker 2: some NAT games and they're currently very popular for their
Speaker 2: Spider Man games, which are fantastic.
Speaker 1: Right, They're really good. They're really good. Okay, so they're
Speaker 1: trying to buy Activision Activision Blizzard King makes all these games,
Speaker 1: including Candy Crush. The FTC says, Look, this is an
Speaker 1: antitrust situation. This is a monopolistic acquisition, right, is that's
Speaker 1: the idea, Like, by buying a company this large and
Speaker 1: attaching it to where you already have all these other
Speaker 1: businesses that are producing huge franchises, you threaten the potential
Speaker 1: of the fair market here or something. Is that correct? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Pretty much.
Speaker 2: And I think there's an argument to be made about,
Speaker 2: you know, the fact that it's Microsoft that's doing in. Microsoft,
Speaker 2: that's the fourth largest company in the world, that already
Speaker 2: has its fingers, its fingers in so many different pies
Speaker 2: already right now, it wants to dominate the video game space,
Speaker 2: which is definitely not and that was probably what helped
Speaker 2: Microsoft the Microsoft's case to most the fact that it
Speaker 2: is a struggling brand in the in the Vidya game market.
Speaker 1: Right Like, Comparatively, I guess the PlayStation brand and Sony's
Speaker 1: gaming efforts are more successful and Nintendo, I mean, Nintendo
Speaker 1: is I would guess, way more successful in terms of
Speaker 1: I mean, they strike me as being the most successful
Speaker 1: video game company. I think they.
Speaker 2: Probably had the highest profits. I don't know if they
Speaker 2: hid the highest revenues, but I think in terms of.
Speaker 1: Profits they are. This is actually something we'll get into
Speaker 1: this because I do want to talk about Nintendo for
Speaker 1: a minute, and we'll get into that, but just to
Speaker 1: just to kind of like, you know, cap this off,
Speaker 1: so it seems like it's going to go through. I guess,
Speaker 1: like my feeling is, I'm always loath to side with
Speaker 1: like a huge corporation over something.
Speaker 2: There's no good guys, there's no real good guys in
Speaker 2: the story.
Speaker 1: No, they're still good guys. I mean I just feel like, well,
Speaker 1: first off, it's like, you know, what is the goal?
Speaker 1: Why is it necessary? I guess if you're not going
Speaker 1: to limit the release of these games for other platforms,
Speaker 1: which it sounds like they're claiming they're not going to
Speaker 1: Does it even serve their goal to I guess it does,
Speaker 1: because there's all kinds of other things you can do,
Speaker 1: like licensing and IP stuff and like, yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess the probably with Microsoft is that it's been very,
Speaker 2: very bad at managing intellectual property, you know. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: you see Mario and Mario just came out with a
Speaker 2: movie this year and it's actually the biggest box off
Speaker 2: office block muster.
Speaker 1: Of the year. Yeah, insane.
Speaker 2: That comes from Nintendo building and nurturing and nursing an
Speaker 2: IP for the last forty years. So when a Mario
Speaker 2: movie just comes out, it already has an automatic worldwide,
Speaker 2: huge audience.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Microsoft doesn't really have anything anything like that. They have Halo.
Speaker 2: They did a show, Yeah, and they did the show
Speaker 2: which was not great. Yeah, well the paramount says that
Speaker 2: it did. Okay, So it's like okay, I'm sure, but
Speaker 2: the Halo characters are really dumb. I'm sorry, Like, who's
Speaker 2: the main guy, master Chief. It's a really dumb character.
Speaker 2: It's like a it's like a marine. First off, it's
Speaker 2: like it's like a military guy and you like don't
Speaker 2: see him.
Speaker 1: He's always like war. He's like you.
Speaker 2: Always talking about war, like the people fighting. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: not supposed to be anything or anybody. He's supposed to
Speaker 2: be an average He's right, you're supposed to imprint yourself
Speaker 2: on this idea. He's got a hood, like he's always
Speaker 2: wearing a mirrored mask or whatever, like helmet, and you're
Speaker 2: just supposed to be like, this could be anybody. I mean,
Speaker 2: he obviously is like, you know, tough military bro or whatever.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and then the show was like, actually, know
Speaker 2: he's this guy and he also has sex.
Speaker 1: You know, so isn't he Isn't he different from you? Oh? Really?
Speaker 2: They showed they showed his face. They show his face
Speaker 2: numerous times. That was a huge controversy, the fact that
Speaker 2: they showed that that he can't keep his helmet off.
Speaker 1: And I don't mind it.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it makes sense for the
Speaker 2: for the guy to keep his helmet off.
Speaker 1: But it was a huge deal.
Speaker 2: But then I was fine with this the show until
Speaker 2: he took his like the rest of his armor off
Speaker 2: to have sex.
Speaker 1: And I was like, right, okay, you think he should
Speaker 1: have kept the armor on, but just removed the pelvic area.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think he should have had sex. It
Speaker 3: completely ruins completely well master Chief. Does master Chief not
Speaker 3: have desires? Does he not deserve love? I mean, he's
Speaker 3: got to ask yourself.
Speaker 2: Because he does. But he has sex with a prisoner
Speaker 2: of war in the story.
Speaker 1: Oh that's inappropriate, that's not cool, like his prisoner, it's
Speaker 1: his prisoner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's consensual, but the balance.
Speaker 1: Of power, you know, Okay, Yeah, I feel like that's
Speaker 1: not a good way to start a relationship. I would
Speaker 1: at least wait till they're out and free, and then
Speaker 1: if they come back and they're like, hey, you know what,
Speaker 1: I thought we had something while I was a prisoner,
Speaker 1: then maybe let them take the initiative. But uh, okay,
Speaker 1: well that raises many questions. Certainly, I now feel like
Speaker 1: I really want to see Master Chief's face and also
Speaker 1: hopefully his nude body. I definitely am interested in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: his but okay, master chiefs but just fully out there.
Speaker 1: So actually, but it's a character. I'm sorry, like you're
Speaker 1: comparing it, like you're saying, that's a franchise they have, right, sure,
Speaker 1: if master Chief is the most like relatable character that
Speaker 1: Microsoft has created, it's kind of like, yeah, like this
Speaker 1: is sort of hits your point home, right, like exactly,
Speaker 1: they can't there where? Who's there super Mario? Yeah? You know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean you look at Mario.
Speaker 2: He has so much personality, you know everything about him.
Speaker 2: You know, he's a working class hero. You know, he
Speaker 2: likes to eat, he looks very happy. There's a lot
Speaker 2: you can read from him just by looking at him.
Speaker 2: And then when Master Chief it's like, oh, he's a soldier.
Speaker 1: Guy, he likes I would do it. He likes to eat,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I mean, I actually I don't I know.
Speaker 1: He likes to eat. He doesn't apparently like mushrooms. Now,
Speaker 1: according to the movie, the film is canon. A lot
Speaker 1: of canon changes in the film. From what I can tell,
Speaker 1: a lot of things that are introduced. I don't want
Speaker 1: to give any spoilers, but I watched the movie with
Speaker 1: my daughter Zelda. She loved it. I've been telling people, like,
Speaker 1: there's a really interesting this is as much as I'll
Speaker 1: say about it, there's a really interesting thing in the
Speaker 1: film about the Italian, about Mario's Italian accent. That's all
Speaker 1: I'll say. But I found it to be quite shocking. Frankly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if that's a controversial point that
Speaker 1: people have been talking about. But anyhow, sorry, So Microsoft
Speaker 1: sucks at IP. I totally interrupted you just too. I
Speaker 1: don't even know what, but Microsoft sucks at IP.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why they want to acquire activistion Blizzard because
Speaker 2: has all of his other IP.
Speaker 1: You know, that makes sense, And I think, like maybe
Speaker 1: they need some IP because like Sony has like really
Speaker 1: good IP. I mean, Sony has the best shit, Like
Speaker 1: the Last of Us is like I mean, Sony and
Speaker 1: Nintendo both, but like, yeah, they've created some pretty iconic
Speaker 1: characters and brands, and I feel like, you know, I mean, Microsoft,
Speaker 1: like why not let them take a crack at it?
Speaker 1: Like maybe the unfair market is that they don't have
Speaker 1: any cool characters that anybody cares about.
Speaker 2: So well, this is a comparison I've made, I've started
Speaker 2: to make recently. You think about what Microsoft is as
Speaker 2: a company and what they've always been. They've never been
Speaker 2: an entertainment company, right, They're not in a company that
Speaker 2: manages IP or culture or art. You know, Sony has
Speaker 2: Sony Pictures, Sony's Sony has been in music publishing for
Speaker 2: for decades. Yeah, Nintendo is Nintendo, right, of course, Nintendo
Speaker 2: Nintendo does when Nintendo does. Yeah, Microsoft creates operating systems, right,
Speaker 2: it creates software.
Speaker 1: It's the plumbing. And this is like Bill Gates. I
Speaker 1: better have cited this on a recent podcast, but Bill
Speaker 1: Gates famously there's an interview with him where he talks
Speaker 1: about how like they don't want to be the stuff
Speaker 1: you see, they want to be the plumbing. And like
Speaker 1: that's exactly what Microsoft has created, right, Like, it's not
Speaker 1: the character up top, It's not like every character they create, Clippy,
Speaker 1: huge failure. They tried to be like personable with the Zoon.
Speaker 1: The Zooon was like had a lot of character, but
Speaker 1: everybody hated it exactly. I'm trying to think of other
Speaker 1: Microsoft characters. There's not a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a Windows Phone, you know, doesn't really
Speaker 2: have a lot of personality there too, you know.
Speaker 1: No horrible. I mean, I mean I actually like the
Speaker 1: Windows Phone interface, but it was just a bunch of squares. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've heard it was bit it was fun and I
Speaker 1: like the Windows interface too. I mean I'm using it
Speaker 1: right now Xbox. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing about the game Pass service. It
Speaker 2: does well, Microsoft does best. It's a really good service.
Speaker 2: It's a really good online service. I think it could
Speaker 2: be used by everyone, you know, very much like what
Speaker 2: Microsoft products have been, right, But there's just nothing creative
Speaker 2: there and that's really fueling it, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they need to plug in, Like essentially, like
Speaker 1: your Netflix analogy is like Netflix only got really rose
Speaker 1: to it's like crazy success in the period when they
Speaker 1: started making original content and they started to have these
Speaker 1: like yeah, huge franchises that were like everybody had to
Speaker 1: see and like in order. I guess this is really
Speaker 1: the idea, right, They're using this model. Like if you
Speaker 1: look at the Netflix model, it's like you make Stranger
Speaker 1: Things and House of Cards and there are other ones
Speaker 1: I can't think of right now. I don't a bird box.
Speaker 1: I have a fucking note. But you know, like if
Speaker 1: you make these things that everybody's like you got to
Speaker 1: see it and you can only see it on your platform,
Speaker 1: that's a match made and heaven right ever last year two? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a good game, right, I mean sort of in
Speaker 1: a way very Apple right, where it's like the software
Speaker 1: the hardware and it's all like walled off, like you
Speaker 1: can only get it in this experience or whatever. But
Speaker 1: it's it's it's like a monopoly of ecosystems, right, Like
Speaker 1: everybody wants you in their system and in their world
Speaker 1: and wants to like wants you to pay for it
Speaker 1: and wants to give you the best stuff so you
Speaker 1: never leave, or give you stuff that you want so
Speaker 1: you never leave. I mean it makes a lot of
Speaker 1: sense in that regard. But like they're gonna need a
Speaker 1: lot more than just like a couple of game companies,
Speaker 1: right like Microsoft, Yeah one, they need like a lot
Speaker 1: of IP to really make that, like like Sony produces
Speaker 1: like like the Spider Man IP is theirs, right, Like
Speaker 1: they have Spider Man and that's like the first party
Speaker 1: thing that they're producing.
Speaker 2: Like I love a synergy with the movies and the
Speaker 2: game too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right exactly. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean it makes
Speaker 1: sense for them. I mean xboxes. I had a series
Speaker 1: X and I is that the new one Series X
Speaker 1: that was called Ye, that's the new one. I had it.
Speaker 1: I hadn't I had. I never opened it, and I
Speaker 1: we'd ended up doing like a giveaway with it at
Speaker 1: one of my one of my websites because I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a PC and I have a PlayStation in
Speaker 1: the PlayStation five, and I'm like, Xbox, if you have
Speaker 1: a decent PC, you're fo Yeah, I have a My
Speaker 1: PC kicks ass. I literally like built my PC in
Speaker 1: preparation for Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven.
Speaker 2: That's a whole other Oh man, I love that game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that game too. Only elden Ring has
Speaker 1: topped my playtime on a game. Oh totally. I've actually
Speaker 1: only recently done the thing that I think people normally do,
Speaker 1: where you actually I probably played Fallout three more than
Speaker 1: both of those games. But that's it.
Speaker 2: That's at a time when I wasn't. I had a
Speaker 2: huge affinity for Fallout three. When I first moved to
Speaker 2: DC in twenty fifteen. The first thing, the very first
Speaker 2: thing I did when I moved to DC, was I
Speaker 2: put on my my head my headphones, and I walked
Speaker 2: around listening to the Fallout three soundtrack just to come yes, dude,
Speaker 2: relived that experience in real life.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was awesome because Fallout three, for people who don't
Speaker 2: know it, takes place at a post apocalyptic Washington, DC.
Speaker 2: So I'm walking around to the city, I'm like, Wow,
Speaker 2: it really is like the game, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has like really pretty like well crafted map
Speaker 1: points that are like if you if you go to
Speaker 1: DC like and look at them, they're like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: like that's exactly what it looks like. But in Fallout
Speaker 1: obviously even re created the metros. Yeah no, it's awesome,
Speaker 1: And I mean I spent so much time playing Follow
Speaker 1: three and anyhow. Okay, so so right, but Fallout three
Speaker 1: that that is that's a long time ago. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm cyberpunk. This is. We could talk about that for
Speaker 1: for for hours, but that's true. I mean we really,
Speaker 1: we really could. But yeah, like let's talk about Nintendo
Speaker 1: for a second, because it is interesting to me, like
Speaker 1: when they announced the Wii. First off, like there was
Speaker 1: a period where Nintendo kind of wasn't and maybe I'm
Speaker 1: maybe this is just my perception of it, but I
Speaker 1: feel like there was a period like post s NES
Speaker 1: or SNATS as some people might refer to, which I
Speaker 1: think is wrong, but you know whatever, to each its own,
Speaker 1: there was I feel like there was a period where
Speaker 1: there was like, yes, Nintenda was releasing game systems and
Speaker 1: they were doing okay, but they none of them really
Speaker 1: seemed to be like the thing that everybody played I
Speaker 1: feel like it was like when the PlayStation. When PlayStation
Speaker 1: came into existence, everybody's attention shifted to PlayStation. Like all
Speaker 1: the people I knew and all the people that I
Speaker 1: gamed with were like we were playing like Metal Gear
Speaker 1: and like whatever that first gen you know, like Silent
Speaker 1: Hill and all that stuff, and it was like we
Speaker 1: were like, Okay, this is it, this is the next thing.
Speaker 1: And I feel like for a while there, Nintendo wasn't
Speaker 1: that competitive with them. Is that by the way, Is
Speaker 1: that my perception or is that.
Speaker 2: Like that's true? And you know, for people ton't know,
Speaker 2: that was an issue of format. Nintendo didn't want to
Speaker 2: use CDs as the medium to deliver games, whereas PlayStation,
Speaker 2: which originally developed the PlayStation of Fort Nintendo, until Nintendo decided, nah,
Speaker 2: it's crazy. That's why Sony decided to say, okay, well
Speaker 2: we made this whole video game system with CDs, we
Speaker 2: might as well just release it and call it the PlayStation.
Speaker 2: And that'll happened. And it was really an issue of format. So,
Speaker 2: like you know, Final Fantasy sixteenes came up, but Final
Speaker 2: and Fantasy seven came out on the PlayStation because it
Speaker 2: had the CD format. They could not make Final Fantasy
Speaker 2: seven Middle Gear Solid on the Nintendo sixty four, which
Speaker 2: was in a very limited cartridge format totally. There's not
Speaker 2: a lot of space for audio, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: space for video, there's not a lot of memory space
Speaker 2: for like three D three D imagery, whereas.
Speaker 1: The PlayStation did right. So, and this was also at
Speaker 1: a time when CD ROMs were very prevalent, like in
Speaker 1: the computing world. It wasn't like it was a weird
Speaker 1: new format that nobody had ever heard of. It was
Speaker 1: like very common if you were a computer user to
Speaker 1: encounter like the Encarta CD or whatever, you know, like
Speaker 1: or whatever it is you we put on CDs. So like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. But Nintendo, So this is sort of what
Speaker 1: I was going to get to, is that they are
Speaker 1: always doing this thing where they're like rejecting the kind
Speaker 1: of status quo, Like they're rejecting this idea. Like I
Speaker 1: think there was a real conceit across the board in
Speaker 1: the video game industry at that time, because I feel
Speaker 1: like that was right around the era of like three
Speaker 1: D Oero and Jaguar, which actually was cartridge base but
Speaker 1: I think it had a CD adapter Turbographics is probably
Speaker 1: it's like last the generation before it. My favorite game
Speaker 1: system the Turbo Graphics also known as the PC Engine,
Speaker 1: but that had a CD adapter and like I think,
Speaker 1: and then eventually the Turbo Duo, which was just a
Speaker 1: single unit with the CD but in the Sega CD obviously,
Speaker 1: and there was a real like conceit amongst all the
Speaker 1: seemingly all of the companies that like CDs were the
Speaker 1: thing and you needed to go to CD, and Nintenda
Speaker 1: was like, no, we're not going to do that, and
Speaker 1: then they did. Actually, God, now that I'm thinking it
Speaker 1: was so weird. They're so fucking weird. Then they released
Speaker 1: what is.
Speaker 2: It, the N sixty four that was a cartridge that
Speaker 2: was that wasn't when I used cartridge and that was
Speaker 2: the beginning.
Speaker 1: No, that was cartridge was the beginning. That's kind of
Speaker 1: floundering period. That's Golden Eye, right, that's like the GoldenEye
Speaker 1: GoldenEye too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like it had had great, amazing games like Goldeneye'
Speaker 2: obviously Mario Mario Party Smashed Brothers debut on that system too.
Speaker 1: Well. Their thing was like there their idea there was
Speaker 1: like we're not going to do CDs, the games are
Speaker 1: going to be way less complex in a way. But
Speaker 1: the whole thing with that was we think more people
Speaker 1: should play. It was like a group thing, right because
Speaker 1: it had four controller inputs on the front instead of
Speaker 1: the normal two that you saw in every other system. Right,
Speaker 1: this is as I as we talk about it's actually
Speaker 1: like my mind is going back to like all this
Speaker 1: weirdness intent. It's always like everybody's doing CDs, so we
Speaker 1: don't care about that. But what we think might be
Speaker 1: interesting is like what if four people could play instead
Speaker 1: of two? And then eventually they do with the game Cube.
Speaker 1: I guess right, they do three inch I want to
Speaker 1: say they do mini the mini CDs? Am I crazy?
Speaker 1: ABC's I don't even know what that's called. Hold on,
Speaker 1: what is it? I'm just going to google it right now?
Speaker 1: Miny CDs many they're called a mini CD.
Speaker 3: Okay, they're called a mini CD okay.
Speaker 1: And yeah, this is a thing where Nintendo's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, CDs are cool, but not the ones
Speaker 1: that hold all the stuff. We want the ones that
Speaker 1: hold like half as much stuff, Like that's our thing.
Speaker 1: And so they released the game Cube, which I'll admit
Speaker 1: I bought. I definitely bought for a specific game, like
Speaker 1: I want to say, maybe it was a Resident Evil title. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely bought a Dreamcast. I bought the Dreamcast. Oh
Speaker 1: that was another CD bassist in the Dreamcast. I bought
Speaker 1: that to play Code Veronica. And I'm really dating myself
Speaker 1: right now. Geene, you know everything. Everything I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: You're familiar with, correct, I know all the games. You
Speaker 1: have very good tastes, So there's that. Yeah, thank you, Well,
Speaker 1: I try. I have a very specific kind of taste.
Speaker 1: There's only a few types of games that I really enjoy,
Speaker 1: and I enjoy them heavily. I'll tell you. Oh, you
Speaker 1: know what game I've probably played more of than any
Speaker 1: other game is a Dead Cells. Are you Dead Cells playing? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I love Dead Cells. Yeah, I've played Dead Cells like
Speaker 1: more than I think any other game I've ever played.
Speaker 1: That's another game that's actually very souls like. It's like
Speaker 1: you have to be good at it to enjoy it.
Speaker 1: That's a game that has the perfect mixture of you
Speaker 1: can pick it up at any time and play it totally,
Speaker 1: or you can sit and do a whole session for
Speaker 1: hours and hours. But like if you can only play
Speaker 1: for five minutes, like it's pretty enjoyable, or you want
Speaker 1: to play for like two hours, it's enjoyable. Anyhow, Okay,
Speaker 1: so Nintendo does this weird shit. And then when they
Speaker 1: announced the Wii, which was like, I don't know what
Speaker 1: year that was, two thousand, God, I don't know one,
Speaker 1: I don't know. That doesn't sound right and it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: They announced the Wii, and I was like, this is
Speaker 1: fucking stupid, Like nobody wants this shit, Like nobody wants
Speaker 1: to like stand in their living room with these things
Speaker 1: and like pretend they're golfing or whatever. And I will say,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't rarely get things wrong. I'm usually
Speaker 1: totally right about everything. But people fucking love the Wii.
Speaker 1: Right like the we brought them back basically from this
Speaker 1: like weird gray zone into like it became like the thing.
Speaker 1: Am I crazy again for remembering it that way? No,
Speaker 1: you're not, But this is most of the time. When
Speaker 1: they started releasing the Nintendo DS, which is actually the well,
Speaker 1: I think, the second highest selling video game like machine
Speaker 1: of all time, just under the PlayStation two writ handheld,
Speaker 1: they were like handheld, Yes, it was a handheld market
Speaker 1: and the casual market of the we that really kind
Speaker 1: of you know, relifted their fortunes basically for the rest
Speaker 1: of the century. Okay, anyhow, But so the thing with
Speaker 1: Nintendo is the switch. This is where I'm getting to
Speaker 1: by the way, I know, I swear I had a point.
Speaker 1: There's a long winded way of getting there. The switch
Speaker 1: is like again, they announced it and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like why, Like it's like underpowered. It's
Speaker 1: like really underpowered. Like even when they announced it, it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it only does seven twenty right, that
Speaker 1: was a big thing. It doesn't even do full HD.
Speaker 1: It only does and correct me if I'm wrong, but
Speaker 1: it is only seven to twenty max right on the
Speaker 1: handheld device.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could go up to trinity on the screen
Speaker 2: on the TV, which is decent. Right, that's definitely not
Speaker 2: four K. It can't hit four K at all.
Speaker 1: So no, Well, there was a lot of controversy about
Speaker 1: them even doing it like HD. I remember there was
Speaker 1: I feel like there was some era where like they
Speaker 1: wouldn't like the WI wasn't HD.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we was not HHD. I think that only
Speaker 2: went up to four I think they only went up
Speaker 2: to like four eighty I and then We You was
Speaker 2: the first. Yeah, actual, HD completely forgot about the WU
Speaker 2: and let me say so, I just connected the mine
Speaker 2: back up actually just the other day, dude.
Speaker 1: So I found mine in a box like a month ago,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I should put this, I should
Speaker 1: hook this back up. So I bought the w U
Speaker 1: because of Zombie U. Yeah, that's a great game, which
Speaker 1: I thought looked like the dopest fucking game in the world.
Speaker 1: And I have to say, to this day one of
Speaker 1: the greatest, one of the greatest games ever made, particularly
Speaker 1: on the WU because of the way they used the controller.
Speaker 1: But I've actually played it. I've actually played on a
Speaker 1: bunch of different like I have it on my PC,
Speaker 1: and like it's like one of the best zombie games.
Speaker 1: I feel like it has not gotten like the cred
Speaker 1: that it deserves or the or the love that it deserves.
Speaker 2: We haven't given Zombie You as its flowers as a
Speaker 2: culture because it's it's very good, Okay, We You kind
Speaker 2: of was not successful, right, The WU was sort of a.
Speaker 1: It is the worst setting Colusstle of all time. Wow.
Speaker 1: Really definitely the worst Nendo's ever made, for sure. So
Speaker 1: the switch comes out from what I can tell, and
Speaker 1: you tell me if I'm wrong, because I feel like
Speaker 1: you probably know these numbers. It seems like it's like
Speaker 1: the biggest selling like game console of all time or something.
Speaker 1: Am I am? I crazier saying that it's number three
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Okay, so they're gunning to replace the Nintendo DS, and
Speaker 2: it seems that they're going to hit, right, it's still
Speaker 2: a question of whether they're going to hit the one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty four million that the PlayStation two sold.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's the biggest selling of all time. The PlayStation
Speaker 1: two is the biggest selling of all time.
Speaker 2: And a big factor that is the fact that it
Speaker 2: was the cheapest DVD player on the market at the time.
Speaker 2: So if you wanted to watch movies at home, that's amazing.
Speaker 2: Light as well just buy a PlayStation two because it's
Speaker 2: way way because remember when DVD players were like three
Speaker 2: hundred four hundred bucks for some reason.
Speaker 1: Yes, I do, I definitely do remember that. I mean
Speaker 1: it's crazy, crazy to think, yeah, anyhow.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the switches catch you up though. The switches
Speaker 2: catch you up right, and it's still selling a bunch.
Speaker 1: It's telling a bunch and it's like and it's like
Speaker 1: it's like Nintendo's that does this thing that I'm like
Speaker 1: so sort of I'm so confused by it. I don't
Speaker 1: understand why it works to a degree. Like they keep
Speaker 1: going like, hey, do you like super Mario, Like remember
Speaker 1: that Super Mario game you loved as a kid? Super
Speaker 1: Mario two or whatever. They're like, we rebate it. It's
Speaker 1: the same game, but it's like better and it's for
Speaker 1: the new system, and people are like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: they're fucking lining up for it. And that's the same
Speaker 1: thing they do with Pokemon, Like all the time they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: remember the Pokemon you loved as a teen, Now you're thirty,
Speaker 1: and we remade it for the switch, and like it
Speaker 1: just seems like it shouldn't work, like right, Like it's
Speaker 1: like it's like the Marvel movies. Now people are kind
Speaker 1: of like, eh, I'm okay, I'm like I've seen these all.
Speaker 1: I'm good.
Speaker 2: Still playing Pokemon as a forty year old, you know, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: But what's more insane is not just that you're playing it.
Speaker 2: My guess is recently, pretty recently, you've played a game
Speaker 2: that was like it's a remade version of a game
Speaker 2: that you played already, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's a bunch of games. But the Pokemon
Speaker 1: franchise in particular is like they're always like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Pokemon would would just remake
Speaker 2: remakes basically you know so.
Speaker 1: Right, and you think it shouldn't work, and like it
Speaker 1: always does, and I don't understand, like it, like, what
Speaker 1: is it about Nintendo? What is it about them that
Speaker 1: allows them to have these notions? Like do you have
Speaker 1: any understanding of how it is they come up with
Speaker 1: these like weird, left of center kind of ideas that
Speaker 1: just somehow like really connect with with humans.
Speaker 2: I think that they always focus on the concept of play.
Speaker 2: So you look at Zelda, Tiers of the Kingdom and
Speaker 2: other games are talking about, oh, how can I get
Speaker 2: powered up? Or how how can I feel more powerful
Speaker 2: or have more combos or moves and stuff like that, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's every other game, whereas in Zelda, Zelda asks you,
Speaker 2: see what happens when you put this square into the
Speaker 2: square hole and see how how good that feels? You know, right,
Speaker 2: it's basically that old TikTok you know. It's now, see
Speaker 2: what happens when you put a triangle in a square hole.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh my god, that's a great that's a great.
Speaker 1: Wait is that is that a vine? Actually? I think
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: I think it was a TikTok. It's it feels a
Speaker 2: as old as of mine for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know what I was talking about. That.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely an old TikTok. But it's like very
Speaker 2: simple concepts that are very easy to understand. You know,
Speaker 2: build the sea saw, I see how the seesaw works.
Speaker 2: So there's a primal instinct of they have this connection
Speaker 2: on the concept of play that I think a lot
Speaker 2: of other companies still are forgetting. And that's why they
Speaker 2: focus so much on cartridges back then, because they figured
Speaker 2: that the loading times of the CDs would get in
Speaker 2: the way of the play, because nobody wants to just
Speaker 2: sit around and wait until the game starts up.
Speaker 1: Again. Turns out we do, yeah, but you know, we do.
Speaker 1: We turns out we will pretty much spend like a
Speaker 1: pretty good segment of our lives waiting for shit to load.
Speaker 1: And it's only recently that we are now, Like only today, really,
Speaker 1: I feel like, have we gotten to a point where
Speaker 1: you can play a game pretty much the whole time
Speaker 1: and never have it load, which is they's spent over
Speaker 1: twenty years and we finally got to this point. You know,
Speaker 1: it's pretty amazing, I will say.
Speaker 2: But well, Mario's creator also says, you know, he says
Speaker 2: he never plays any other games, so there's kind of
Speaker 2: like a tunnel vision there, like he only plays Mario.
Speaker 2: He just doesn't play games, I guess, and he just
Speaker 2: has ideas. You know, I don't know how much he
Speaker 2: is really into making games these days, because he's over seventy.
Speaker 2: He mostly oversaw like the creation of like well, the
Speaker 2: Mario movie and also the theme park in Universal Studios too,
Speaker 2: so he's.
Speaker 1: Been doing you're talking about a shagear. The creative Mario Manzilda.
Speaker 1: So I met him at CS when I was thirteen.
Speaker 1: My dad took me to CS in Chicago and he
Speaker 1: was there. Oh man, I met him and he signed
Speaker 1: my badge and drew Mario on it. Okay, and some
Speaker 1: I believe somewhere in my parents' house is that fucking badge.
Speaker 1: And I'm I would really like to find it, and
Speaker 1: I'd like to get up. I'm like, I like, I'm
Speaker 1: not not to sell it or something, because I think
Speaker 1: it would be fucking amazing, you know, like to frame
Speaker 1: or whatever. We've talked about a lot of things. I
Speaker 1: feel like I rambled us into some weird territory, but
Speaker 1: I'd like to get from you a little bit of
Speaker 1: presaging about the future of video games. I'll start with
Speaker 1: some simple things, and then I'll take it into a
Speaker 1: more complicated space. First off, are there any games that
Speaker 1: are coming out in the near future that you are
Speaker 1: particularly excited about and feel like are going to be
Speaker 1: particularly interesting or good.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be an obvious answer, but I'm definitely
Speaker 2: looking forward to the next pathestic game, Starfield.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Are you worried that it's going to be a No
Speaker 2: Man's Sky situation? I am worried that the game will
Speaker 2: be a lot simpler than I think it appears to be.
Speaker 2: And that's partially because Fallout four came out and they
Speaker 2: simplified so many things from Fallout three, which is why
Speaker 2: I still look at Fallout three so much more favorably.
Speaker 1: I agree, so they.
Speaker 2: Had more systems going on, it was mu much more
Speaker 2: of a role playing game. Fallout four really simplified, like
Speaker 2: the decisions you make. They used to be very multifaceted,
Speaker 2: and then Fallout four they became very binary. So they've
Speaker 2: been trending that way for why for the last decade
Speaker 2: or so. So I'm worried that Starfield is going to
Speaker 2: be the culmination of that that's trimming down of every
Speaker 2: role playing aspect. But they seem to be promising a lot.
Speaker 2: But then the issue is that Todd Howard, the director
Speaker 2: of but As the Studios, has been a little you know,
Speaker 2: I respect him a lot, I love him, but he's
Speaker 2: also a bit of a charlatan, you know, and he
Speaker 2: just he just says things, you know, and it doesn't
Speaker 2: come out to be exactly true. So I'm really really
Speaker 2: fascinated interested to see whether there are actually a thousand
Speaker 2: planets that the game promises that you can fly around
Speaker 2: in and explore.
Speaker 1: Yeh see. See. When I hear that, I'm like, it's
Speaker 1: too many planets, Like I feel like one of the
Speaker 1: problems with the game too lately for me is like
Speaker 1: there's too much going on, there's so much to do
Speaker 1: that I'm like, I don't know what to do here,
Speaker 1: Like there's too much, too many options, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will say you were talking about the new Zeuda
Speaker 1: which is called Tiers of the Kingdom, right, is that
Speaker 1: the subtitle. I haven't played it yet because I haven't
Speaker 1: finished Breath of the Wild, which is a whole thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I never got into Bath of
Speaker 1: the Wild. I would just go to Teers of the
Speaker 1: Kingdom lodency first.
Speaker 2: It's fine, really, you think I can just jump into it.
Speaker 2: About the narrative, the story barely matters. I think the
Speaker 2: game like barely remembers Breath of the Wild happened. And
Speaker 2: that's been kind of a meme right where like you know,
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, where does Tears are king of
Speaker 2: fit in the timeline? And people are like, I don't
Speaker 2: know if it even fits on the timeland and Breath
Speaker 2: of the Wild because it barely mentions the Breath of
Speaker 2: the Wild. Right, So I think you can go to
Speaker 2: Tiers in Kingdom feeling pretty good about yourself.
Speaker 1: So just cool, there's it's a much better good. Okay,
Speaker 1: All right, Well you've I mean i've I mean I've
Speaker 1: been watching people's videos, like not too much because I
Speaker 1: don't want spoil it, but what it does, what it's
Speaker 1: doing looks like so much fun and so creative and
Speaker 1: like just like crazily creative. I'm like, god, this is
Speaker 1: such a Nintendo move. It just feels like everybody's zigging
Speaker 1: and they zag and where they zag is just like
Speaker 1: a crazy, like super fun, playful thing. Like to your
Speaker 1: point about play. By the way, we forgot that Microsoft
Speaker 1: owns Minecraft, which or I forgot to mention it, but
Speaker 1: that's a huge franchise for them. Like Minecraft is like
Speaker 1: very popular, right, so I mean they have that it's
Speaker 1: the best selling game of all time. Well, there you
Speaker 1: have it. I mean, Microsoft, they're they're crushing it.
Speaker 2: But Minecraft and Zelda, Tears and the Kingdom have a
Speaker 2: lot of in common because, like you know, there's so
Speaker 2: much creative a right they're building so like like several
Speaker 2: years ago, Minecraft was popular for you know, people was
Speaker 2: able to actually create a working computer inside Minecraft, right,
Speaker 2: And in Zelda they're actually starting to.
Speaker 1: Do that now too, if they realize. If you look
Speaker 1: up a subreddit.
Speaker 2: Hiro engineering, Zelda players have already gone moved on to
Speaker 2: fuse entanglement and quantum physic physics. No, come on, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: That's already happening in Zelda there, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Mean that's it was my first thought when I saw
Speaker 1: what people were doing with it. I'm like, oh, they
Speaker 1: kind of took the Minecraft concept. They did. I want
Speaker 1: to get your take on Apple's on the Vision pro Like,
Speaker 1: obviously there's like gaming implications. There's huge gaming implications with
Speaker 1: like any company who's doing VR, give me, like your
Speaker 1: take on that, and I guess maybe more broadly like
Speaker 1: VR and if you think that's like actually where gaming
Speaker 1: is headed.
Speaker 2: VR is interesting because people have been trying to have
Speaker 2: it for a long time and trying to make it happen.
Speaker 2: I keep going back to this VR conference I attended
Speaker 2: in California several years ago, and this was around the
Speaker 2: time when the Nintendo Switch and Breadth of the Wild
Speaker 2: came out and Zelda Breath at the while, and it
Speaker 2: was interesting to see all these VR creators and CEOs
Speaker 2: of VR companies, and they explicitly referenced Zelda. They were
Speaker 2: especially fascinated by the fact that Zelda and the Nintendo
Speaker 2: Switch were selling one to one. Every copy of Zelda
Speaker 2: would come with Nintendo Switch and vice versa, and they
Speaker 2: were fascinated by that and they were jealous of it.
Speaker 2: They were like, we're trying to sell VR hardware, but
Speaker 2: we have no software. That is as compelling as a
Speaker 2: Zelda to move actual hardware, to get consumers to spend
Speaker 2: hundreds of dollars in hardware and an adjuster living space
Speaker 2: around it. And they haven't found that, And I feel
Speaker 2: like that's still where VR is. That said, I'm really
Speaker 2: really excited for apples and pro. I'm a huge Apple fan.
Speaker 2: I have so many different Apple products and I've just
Speaker 2: really leaned into the wall garden aspect of Apple. I'm
Speaker 2: enjoying it, and if I could afford it, I would
Speaker 2: totally get get a vision pro. After that press conference
Speaker 2: happened and with Apple, I was walking around to Washington
Speaker 2: Post newsdroop asking various people of knowledge or of management,
Speaker 2: so what is her Apple vision pro strategy? Because we're
Speaker 2: getting some for the office right right?
Speaker 1: Are you are you? Actually? Nobody said anything. I think
Speaker 1: you could make it happen. I mean you could definitely,
Speaker 1: like someone's getting it for review there right, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, for hear that.
Speaker 2: And then we have like a bunch of VR headsets
Speaker 2: around because like you know, the Washington Puss is played
Speaker 2: with VR a ar like storytelling.
Speaker 1: I think we kind of gave up it for a while,
Speaker 1: but you know, well that's because it was a gimmick
Speaker 1: and everybody was kind of like it's.
Speaker 2: Exactly So, I mean, I'm sure people are watching the
Speaker 2: vision pro and wondering like, like, do we need Apple
Speaker 2: to have to make VR a thing?
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think I think your point
Speaker 1: is actually really well taken. It's how you know, I've
Speaker 1: thought about a lot of this, having tried a ton
Speaker 1: of these things. I mean, I have lots of issues
Speaker 1: with their concept of how to do it, but like
Speaker 1: my big one is actually what you said, which is like,
Speaker 1: what's the thing, What's the app or the game or
Speaker 1: the experience that's so compelling that you will put this
Speaker 1: thing on and like tune out the world and go
Speaker 1: like totally immersive into it. And like, I just think
Speaker 1: nobody has established like I've played some very compelling and
Speaker 1: very immersive stuff, Like I think some of the Star
Speaker 1: Wars stuff they did, for like with the Quest was
Speaker 1: really really cool, and I told you, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is awesome, Like you just check it out. It's
Speaker 1: super fun. But like to invest like a signific amount
Speaker 1: of time or energy into that, like, well, first off,
Speaker 1: VR makes me nauseous, So like I have to take
Speaker 1: dramamine to use it. It makes me sick.
Speaker 2: So there's also like that hurdles. Like when I played
Speaker 2: Half Life Alex on the Steam VR, incredible game. I've
Speaker 2: never experienced anyone like it, Like I would probably think
Speaker 2: that that's probably the closest name to an actual killer app,
Speaker 2: where like, anyone interested in vide games you should absolutely
Speaker 2: try that out. But it was so realistic that I
Speaker 2: was nauseous for about two hours.
Speaker 1: You know. Oh wow, Like that's interesting because I bought
Speaker 1: that game with the intention because obviously it's Half Life.
Speaker 1: I bought that game with the intention of, like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to play this. I just need to like get
Speaker 1: the headset and like hook it up and whatever. And
Speaker 1: I've never I've kind of just been like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to get into that, and so I've avoided
Speaker 1: it completely. But I wouldn't just buy one just for it.
Speaker 1: And that's the problem, right right exactly, That's that is
Speaker 1: the problem. In a nutshell. Okay, Gene, I got to
Speaker 1: let you go. Unfortunately, this is super fun. You definitely
Speaker 1: got to come back. And frankly, we can talk about
Speaker 1: it probably a lot of stuff, but the gaming stuff
Speaker 1: is so interesting to hear somebody with like your history
Speaker 1: and experience, it's just like really fun to get your
Speaker 1: perspective on it. So thank you so much for doing this,
Speaker 1: and you know, come back soon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me and I'd love to be
Speaker 2: back soon.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Well, Gene's great. I love Gene. I
Speaker 1: got to say, and I don't know that I've ever
Speaker 1: had in recent memory of conversation that was quite that
Speaker 1: nerdy and in the weeds frankly about the weird video
Speaker 1: games that I that I like. I do feel extremely
Speaker 1: good because Jeane said that I had good taste in
Speaker 1: video games, and I think coming from him, that's a
Speaker 1: massive compliment. So that gives from my ego that's a
Speaker 1: great boost, very exciting stuff. Anyhow, that is our show
Speaker 1: for this week. We will be back next week with
Speaker 1: more what Future, and as always, I wish you and
Speaker 1: your family the very best.