WEBVTT - Ep. 265: Osceola - War and the Warrior 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.120 That was one of the most surprising things to me 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.000 that I learned. What was that that enslaved people escaped 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:16.960 and were running and assimilated into the Seminole tribes. That no, no, no, 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:18.239 will you tell me about it? Thing? 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:18.720 No? 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:24.240 Okay, talk about a big myth, honey, Okay, let me 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:25.080 tell you. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.400 In this episode, we're into the war years of the 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.440 Seminole leader Osceola. This is part two of our series. 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.640 In the first part we talked about Osiola's childhood, but 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.000 now we're talking about how him and his people, both 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.879 in the swamps of Florida, were masters of guerrilla warfare, 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.600 stretching the American army then for over forty years during 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.880 the Seminole Wars, as America tried to bribe, trick, kill, 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.200 and capture the Indians to get them out of Florida. 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:02.080 We're searching for the true legacy of Osceola, an important 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.319 figure in American history, and I really doubt that you're 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.240 going to want to miss this one. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.200 They also knew because they had been told by their 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.000 medicine people, and some of those people were called wal It, 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:21.039 which means a seer, was that there was an end 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.600 to Florida and that they would be pushed all the 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.279 way to that end and they could go no farther 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.800 because there was nothing beyond there but water. They knew it, 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.360 and that's what happened, and that's what happened. The good 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:43.560 news is they're still here today. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.680 My name is Clay Knukem, and this is the Bear 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:53.720 Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.480 for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.760 story of Americans. 0:01:59.200 --> 0:01:59.840 Who lived there. 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:04.760 Life lives close to the land presented by f HF gear, 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:10.000 American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear as designed 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.760 to be as rugged as the places we explore. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.080 There's all these stories that we grew up hearing of 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.160 when we were in battle. Well, first of all, I 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.760 grew up with this idea that the Seminal Nation was 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.119 the only we were the only people that didn't get 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.720 defeated by the US government. And it was the first 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.720 time that the US government ever had gorilla warfare used against them. 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.040 These are the stories I heard growing up. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:44.760 This is Sterling Harjoe. He's a Creek Seminole living in Tulsa, Oklahoma. 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.880 He's a famous filmmaker too. You guys know who he is. 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.000 I mean, that's pretty bad when you're growing up as 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.760 a kid and you're like, oh, yeah, you know, because, 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.919 like I mean, I grew up just like y'all were 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.880 not that far apart, and the differences. My grandma was 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.600 seminal and told stories about babies being killed on the 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.280 trail of tears, and you know, on the other side 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.720 of my family, my grandma's white. But to grow up 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:17.720 with that knowledge of like there was people that I'm 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.760 supposed that I have to stand up every day and 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.840 salute the flag and say the you know, the pledge 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.720 of allegiance, which I did proudly, but also knowing that 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:35.800 part of your ancestors were in direct defiance of that 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:41.080 same flag for survival and to save our culture and 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.800 to also protect me. 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:49.040 I think it's really interesting when people find themselves living 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:53.320 in conflicted places. I think it helps keep us humble 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.520 when we realize how rare black and white answers actually are, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.120 and to put this whole thing into cond text. In 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:06.480 eighteen fourteen, the US annex twenty three million acres extending 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:10.680 from Georgia to Mississippi, which was Indian land, and it 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.360 scattered them like balls on a pool table. Many of 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.359 the Creeks and some other tribes were pushed into the 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.200 Spanish territory of Florida, and this assortment of Indians would 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:25.760 become the Seminoles, a name derived from the Spanish word cimarron, 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:33.320 meaning wild, untamed, or runaways. Sterling's ancestors would walk from 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.359 Florida to Oklahoma in the wake of Andrew Jackson's eighteen 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.279 thirty Indian Removal Act. 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.120 However, some of his tribe. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:47.360 In defiance of the United States government, stayed in Florida. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:52.720 Perhaps the biggest gift and curse of living conflicted is 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.400 the feverish self reflection. It kind of sounds like an 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:02.960 internal war. Here's doctor Patricia Wickman getting us up to 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:04.280 date on Osceola. 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:05.960 You'd better pay attention. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:15.400 We know by eighteen eleven Cumpsa had come, as I said, 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.839 and by eighteen fourteen the world of the Mushkogi people 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:25.000 in the lower Southeast was so fragmented because of the 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:30.279 Creek War of eighteen thirteen fourteen that people were moving everywhere. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.640 There's going to be another war here in Florida, the 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.960 beginning of a series of three wars here in Florida. 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:44.200 In eighteen seventeen that will occupy essentially the entire first 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.919 half of the nineteenth century, and they were reported day 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.880 by day, by night by day in every newspaper across 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.919 the country. There were reports from the troops, there were 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.960 reports from the soldiers, and it wasn't until much late, 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.960 until eighteen thirty five, that Ostiola began to rise to prominence. 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.159 But in the meantime he was surrounded. He was growing 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.480 up in warfare. War. 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.160 For those of us who've not been to war, assumption 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:18.280 of how it affects a human is a mere intellectual exercise, 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.159 and war on your land, as in the case of Ostiola, 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.000 is very different than inflicting war on someone else's land. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.279 Ostiola would gain national and even global fame in his 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.800 short life. It's really interesting to me how we pick 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:38.240 our heroes. Doctor Wickman is from Tallahassee, Florida, and she's 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.719 a national expert on Ostiola, having written a heavy hitting 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:47.240 book called Ostiola's Legacy. She was the senior historian for 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.560 the State of Florida and the former director of Anthropology 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.680 and Genealogy for the Seminole Tribe of Florida. She has 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:59.160 some serious credentials and She's a wonderful and kind woman. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:06.120 When she talks, you listen to understand Osceola, you acknowledge 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:11.000 his entire life was dominated by war, which also means 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.960 death and hiding and running away and fear and disease 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.559 and hunger. I bring up this word fear not because 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:24.160 we saw this as external evidence in Osceola's life, but 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.040 it just had to be there. He was a human. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:32.560 Fear of losing land and culture and family, fear of moving. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:37.880 This fear had to have fueled this indomitable resistance that 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.880 we see in the Seminole people. It made them fight 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:45.480 for their lives. As a timeline catch up, Ostiola was 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.360 born in Alabama in eighteen oh four. Fled the Creek 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.800 Wars with his mother and family to Florida in eighteen fourteen, 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.440 and what was known as the Seminole Wars started in 0:07:55.480 --> 0:08:01.000 eighteen seventeen and lasted until eighteen fifty eight, over forty 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:06.320 years long, like two generations of people. A Spanish philosopher 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.600 once said only the dead have seen the end of war. 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.040 Osceola's war would end with his death in eighteen thirty 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:19.200 eight at the age of thirty four. Here's doctor Wickman 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.520 with a high level overview of the history of Florida 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:27.120 that preceded this war. This is very important, folks, and 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.680 might be on the bear Greece render quiz. 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:35.480 Florida had been Spanish dominated from fifteen sixty five until 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:40.000 seventeen sixty three. In seventeen sixty three, the Seven Years 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.120 War in Europe ended, and as a part of that, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.800 the Spaniards had to leave Florida and leave it to 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:52.319 the British. So the Second Spanish occupation began in seventeen 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.240 eighty four, all right, And by this time the American 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.920 Revolution was was, you know, in not on in progress, 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.600 but the United States was coming into being, was in 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:09.720 its earliest years. And as a consequence, they knew they 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.760 were going to need Florida. It had too much coastline, 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.320 It was too easy for people for other countries to 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.480 get here. You needed the Atlantic Gulf current. You needed 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.280 the Gulf, all right. And as a consequence, even for 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:29.280 just for military protection, you needed the whole territory of Florida. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:34.200 The Seminole Wars was America's attempt to de Indian Florida 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.079 by relocating the tribes to Oklahoma. In eighteen eighteen oh 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.120 Hickory himself. Andrew Jackson would kick off the First Seminole 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:47.320 War by illegally going into what was then Spanish Florida 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:51.680 to try to stamp out the Indian problem. In eighteen nineteen, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.680 Florida would be given to the United States by Spain. 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.520 These wars were just battle after battle, too many to 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.120 talk about. Out of the US pursuing the Seminoles, pushing 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.760 them further and further into Florida. Ostiola would have been 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.080 a teenager during that first war, but likely would have 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.880 fought in eighteen twenty three. The consensus of history is 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:19.520 the Seminoles were bribed and intimidated into signing the Treaty 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:24.360 of Moultrie Creek, which seated twenty eight million acres of 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:29.160 land and allotted the tribe of four million acre reservation, 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.760 all sold for the big amount of two hundred and 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.440 twenty one thousand dollars that went to the Seminoles. That's 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:42.000 not even one cent per acre. So they were trying 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.920 to put the Seminoles on a reservation even back then, 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:50.360 but they wouldn't have it. Later, Andrew Jackson, as President 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:55.040 of the United States, passed through Congress the Indian Removal Act, 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.880 of eighteen thirty, which undid the Treaty of Moultrie Creek. 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:04.520 It erased, and the Seminoles sure couldn't take that. Here's 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:09.120 doctor Wickman describing the type of warfare that was seen 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:10.480 in these Seminole wars. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.520 Every one of these warriors had the right to leave 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.240 if he thought the war was going badly, if he 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.800 thought the battle was going badly, because their method of 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.960 warfare was a to strike at night out during the day, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:28.800 and to do what we would call hit and run. 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.120 They would throw flaming arrows, they would throw spears, They 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.160 would wait for the warriors to run out and kill them. 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.640 They would capture the women, some of the men they 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.439 captured to take back later on for a torture or 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.480 just to kill them later. And as a consequence, the 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:51.320 idea of a pitched battle with lines of troops facing 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.320 each other and firing at each other, and a pitched 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.280 battle as a part of a larger set piece of 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.640 a war, it just wasn't within their ken. It wasn't 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:06.200 something that they understood at all. And so all three 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:10.880 of those wars are going to be the Indians prosecuting 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.080 the war in their style, and the white people who 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.000 are inexorable, and you know that, and there are many 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.600 of them, as there were fleas on a poor animal. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.319 They're going to be prosecuting the war their way. There 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.040 were more and more and more and more and more 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:27.880 and more of them. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.880 The height of the Seminole wars, there might have only 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.040 been four or five thousand seminoles in Florida, is that correct? 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.840 Yes? I think probably at the highest point early in 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.560 the war there might have been five thousand. So yes. 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.120 And beside which, they knew these lands. As a matter 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.920 of fact, they had names for Florida. The each of 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.120 these speakers called Florida the Ichi bomen the nose of 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:56.120 the deer, and the Mushkogi speakers called it egonfushged, which 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.480 meant the sharp or pointed land. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:12:59.120 Wow. 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.120 So they had a sense of the shape of Florida. 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:02.880 Yeah, they did. 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.840 And they also had I guess it's not really that surprising, 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:07.120 but it's interesting, but. 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:08.760 They tunted it. They knew it. 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.920 They also knew because they had been told by their 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.480 medicine people, and some of those meds of people were 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:19.720 called wallet, which means a seer, someone who can see 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.640 the future. One of the things that they told the 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:27.600 people in Osceola's day was that there was an end 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.160 to Florida and that they would be pushed all the 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.839 way to that end, and they could go no farther 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.360 because there was nothing beyond there but water. They knew it, 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.920 and that's what happened, and that's what happened. The good 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.400 news is they're still here today. 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.920 It's no spoiler, but the end of this story is 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.760 that the Florida Seminoles never signed a treaty with the 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:56.960 United States were in search of Osceola's fingerprint on that resistance. 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.000 He was not a chief, but rather a war leader 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.760 who specialized in bad to the bone guerrilla warfare. Even 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.600 after decades of fighting American Indians, the US still waged 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:13.520 war in these formal European style formations. I want to 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:18.400 now read a description of a young Seminole warrior that 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.240 was written by a guy named Clay McCauley, an early 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:28.040 visitor to the Seminole nation. He wrote, Physically, both men 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:31.800 and women are remarkable. The men as a rule, attract 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.680 attention by their height, fullness of symmetry of development, and 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:40.320 the regularity and agreeableness of their features in muscular power 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:45.040 and constitutional ability to endure. They excel. I noticed that 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.880 under a large forehead or deep set, bright black eyes, 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:54.400 small but expressive of inquiry and vigilance. The nose is 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:58.080 slightly aquiline and sensitively formed. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:58.720 About the nostrils. 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.880 Lips are mobile, sinuous and not very full disclosing when 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.720 they smile, beautiful regular teeth, and the whole face is 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:11.560 expressive of the man's sense of having extraordinary ability to 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.280 endure and to achieve. We may pronounce the Seminole men 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:23.080 handsome and exceptionally powerful. I always find these old descriptions 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:28.320 really interesting. Here's doctor Wickman with the summary of things 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:32.760 going on in Osceola's early adult life from eighteen eighteen 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:34.120 to eighteen thirty five. 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.880 That period between eighteen seventeen and eighteen thirty five, which 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.360 will be the opening the summer of eighteen thirty five, 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.520 will be the opening of the Second Seminole War. This 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.480 is a period when Osceola went through his right of 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:54.400 passage into manhood, when he was definitely calling ballgames, When 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.600 he and his mother and his sisters moved down the 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.160 peninsula of Florida and possible into what's called the cove 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.600 of the with Lacuchi the with Lacuchi river makes a 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:11.160 bend that's almost like a horseshoe, and the land that's 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.920 in that horseshoe is called the cove of the with 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:18.520 Lacucci and it's where Osciola had his camp during the war, 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.560 and it took a long time for the soldiers to 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:26.600 figure that out and get in there. It's also undoubtedly 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.480 a time when he took a partner. As a matter 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.400 of fact, we know for a fact that you took 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:36.040 it these two women at one time, because that was 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:40.800 not unusual. Having several sisters or sorrow ratee polygyny it's called, 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.720 was a standard, particularly in an instance where there were 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:46.720 more women than men. 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.320 Osciola was described by many in writing. There were no 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.720 TV cameras, but this period is characterized by detailed written 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.280 descriptions of people as well as paintings, and the writing 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.840 would describe their looks but also their demeanor. People were 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.520 so desperately wanting to know who these people were. The 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.160 head of the Office of Indian Affairs, Thomas McKinney wrote 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:18.200 about Ostiola, saying the mind of Ostiola was active rather 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:19.360 than strong. 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.119 And his conduct that of a cunning. 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:26.280 And ambitious man who was determined by his own exertions. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:31.840 His habits were active in enterprising, and to quote John 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.840 Sprague said, he was about five feet eight inches high, 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:40.320 with a manly, frank and open countenance. End of quote. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:45.640 Ostiola was rather small in stature. But his most striking characteristic, 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:51.280 it seems, was his intelligence, his cunning, but also his ego. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.959 He seemed to be quite interested in looking good for 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.000 some reason. It seems odd that an Indian leader should 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:03.360 have any kind of vanity, but why wouldn't that. They're humans, 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:18.600 just like the rest of us. You guys probably remember 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:23.080 the Creek seminole Jake Tiger over in Oklahoma. He's twenty 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.080 six years old and a descendant of Ostiola. 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:27.440 Here's Jake. 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.280 So this is where history kind of gets befuddled a 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.680 little bit. So you only have different historians that referred 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:37.439 to Ocil as a chief. 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:39.000 He was never a chief. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.520 They had chiefs at the time, but a lot of 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.520 them were kind of, how should I say, not as 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.920 aggressive as him working against removal. And so even though 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.199 he was not a chief, he was a warrior, but 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.080 he was a high ranking warrior, so it was kind 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.119 of like, you know, like a general in the army, 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.520 and his ideas were more aligned with what the seminar 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.520 people than some of the chiefs had in mind. You know, 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.480 his ideologies that had kind of resonated to everybody else 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.679 since they followed him. Because his narrative, which was not 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.280 to be removed from traditional lands we had always been at, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.160 and so that was his whole struggle, was resisting removal 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:22.399 because he knew that removal meant not only decimated our population, 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.679 but also would have been a tragedy on our culture 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:27.880 as well. 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.440 It's difficult to understand Osciola's authority in modern military terms. 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.960 He wasn't a hereditary chief, but a war leader, given 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.439 power simply by merit and being able to fight, gather, inspire, 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.359 and lead men. This isn't the perfect analogy, but I 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.960 recently described it kind of like Joe Rogan's influence versus 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:55.160 an actual elected politician. Rogan has a ton of influence, 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.919 often more than someone with official power, kind of like 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:03.520 Osceola had more power than a lot of hereditary chiefs. 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:08.439 It's basically leadership by merit and charisma, not title. 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:09.919 This was Osceola. 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.040 He gained this authority through guerrilla warfare in the swamps, 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.080 of Florida in the First Seminole War. But by the 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.359 time the Second War started around eighteen thirty five, he 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.560 was in his early thirties, hitting his prime. 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:25.240 Here's doctor Whickman. 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.840 We've now gone through the First Seminole War of eighteen 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:35.440 seventeen eighteen. We've got the burgeoning Second Seminole War that's 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.320 going to start in eighteen thirty five. All right, But 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.800 lot going on, a lot going on in an entire 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.080 the entire nation. What there was of the nation in 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:49.840 those days was watching. They were paying attention. Why did 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:55.680 Osceola catch their attention? This was a period when the 0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:00.719 nobility of war was a concept that was still in 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:06.359 common parlance, in common usage. I don't think that most 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.840 of us living today would put those two words together 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:14.919 in a phrase. There's nothing noble about war. Dead is dead. 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.200 But in those days, you know that in the American Revolution, 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.719 during the time when the Marquis de Lafayette had French 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.920 troops here who were aiding the American columnists, he brought 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:31.520 with him a brace, a pair of large dogs. The 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.520 way they've been described to me, I think they sound 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.920 like Russian wolfhounds. He used to chew tobacco, and he's 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.600 with his tobacco on the dogs. And there was one 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:42.920 point in one battle when the dogs got away from 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.960 him and the soldiers. The American soldiers stopped the whole 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.680 entire battle and had a subalter and captured the dogs 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:54.800 and deliver them back to Lafayette. All right, this is 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:59.320 the nobility of war, almost like a game, Almost like 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:04.320 a game, except that life was cheaper than and people 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:10.680 still died. The American image of the Indians then and now, 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.480 and I can tell you experiences that proved to me 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.119 that this is still the image. Most of it has 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.800 to do with with John Wayne imaging. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:20.760 All right. 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:25.199 People thought that the Indians were wild, they were free, 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:31.200 they rode across the prairies, or they fought like wild people. 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:35.199 They didn't have laws and taxes and all these other things, 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.960 and they had no idea what Indians really were. But 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:45.280 the image made them quote unquote noble savages. And that 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:49.440 one is repeated over and over and over and over. 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.879 Just for the record, the word savages in reference to 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.720 the American Indian is a no no word, similar to 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:03.600 other derogatory terms describing certain ethnicities. 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:06.200 It's common in our movies and our. 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:11.119 Literature, but it's like not something you would say despite 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:15.679 the perception. Just like the Americans, Indians were concerned with 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:21.919 family security, land legacy. They cried when family members died, 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:26.080 celebrated when they were born, struggled with insecurity, fear, and 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:31.440 being misunderstood. They had deep rooted culture and laws and morality. 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:35.520 There were good Indians, there were bad Indians, just like 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:40.959 every other human. These people were humans. They were separated 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.639 from the Europeans by this perception of the use of 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:49.040 technology and culture, which was really not a real thing. 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:53.400 If there is one thing that humans have no excuse 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:56.760 for not learning by even by this time, is that 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:01.680 all humans have similar motivations and were basic all the same. 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:06.919 Around eighteen thirty four is when Osceola's name began to 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.760 be talked about in America. Here's Jake Tiger with more 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:14.639 details on probably the most famous story about Ostiola, and 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:17.840 we briefly discussed it in the last episode. Though the 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:21.200 details of this story are disputed, it really doesn't matter. 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:23.080 It impacted the nation. 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:27.640 Well, there's all these really great stories that we hear 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:31.760 of Osceola during the Seminal Wars. One that really resonates 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:34.359 with all of us, and it really kind of encapsulated 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.959 the seminal mindset back then, and it still resonates what 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:41.600 would most of us today, which is that famous story 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:46.439 at the treaty signing of Fort Gibson Treaty where oh 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:49.399 Still had walked up to the table and plunged his 0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:52.520 knife into the treaty and told them this is how 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:55.880 I'll sign because he became so en rasia at all 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:58.920 these different chiefs that were suing their names alway, so. 0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:01.920 There were multip chiefs there and they were signing signing 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:02.359 this treaty. 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:04.919 Yeah, yes, And he walks up to that table and 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.080 it pushed into his belt and then pulls out a 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.320 knife and insteads of a treaty and looks at all 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:11.880 these army officials and tell them that it's it's it's 0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:14.440 we're going to war now. And there's there's a really 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:17.399 good quote by by him that that was said to 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:21.160 uh General Clinch and in February of eighteen thirty four. 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:23.560 You know, I always looking back at a quote now, 0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:25.920 like I said, that's those things that he says, it 0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:31.399 really resonates with our our mindset of being what the 0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:34.800 definitional term is as similar similaronies as being free people, 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:39.520 and that's what he really encapsulated. And so he says, 0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:42.840 you have guns, and so have we. You have pattern 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:45.200 lead and so have we. You have men, and so 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:47.719 have we. You're a man will fight and solo ours 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:50.480 to last drop of similar blood has moisten the dust 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:53.280 of his Honting ground. That was said the General Clinch 0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:54.320 in eighteen thirty four. 0:25:57.520 --> 0:26:01.399 Everyone agrees that Ostiola was at that treaty signing and 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:05.080 that he had a knife. Doctor Whickman doesn't fully buy 0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:08.560 that he stabbed it. She notes how a credible eye 0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:12.440