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Speaker 1: What are the things that light you up?

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Speaker 2: Success should facilitate you being able to do as much

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Speaker 2: of those things as you want to do. If you

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Speaker 2: don't have time to do the thing only you can do.

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Speaker 1: What kind of life is that? He's the host of

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Speaker 1: the Daily.

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Speaker 3: Stow of It. His books have sold more than ten

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Speaker 3: million copies, and holiday ladies and gentlemen, we're.

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Speaker 2: Just piling accomplishments on top of accomplishments. As not the

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Speaker 2: way one finds meaning in their life or their existence.

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Speaker 2: There has to be some point where you go. This

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Speaker 2: stops with me.

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Speaker 3: Weird Throw to announce that we've reached three million subscribers.

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Speaker 3: We're incredibly grateful for each and every one of you.

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Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to hit that

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Speaker 3: subscribe button so you never miss out on any of

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Speaker 3: our new releases. We're dedicated to bringing you the content

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Speaker 3: you love. Our team carefully analyzes what resonates most with

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Speaker 3: you to bring on board the best experts and storytellers

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Speaker 3: to help you improve your life. Some of your favorite

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Speaker 3: topics are sleep, science, weight loss, physical fitness, navigating breakups,

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Speaker 3: habit building, and understanding toxic relationships. Upcoming episodes include one

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Speaker 3: of the biggest names in health and science world, renowned

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Speaker 3: relationship therapist, and your favorite manifestation expert, is back to

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Speaker 3: drop new findings. Hit subscribe to not miss any of

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Speaker 3: these episodes. If you think of someone who would love

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Speaker 3: this episode, send it to them to make their day.

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Speaker 1: The number one health and wellness podcast Jay Sheety jay

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Speaker 1: sheety ly.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one

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Speaker 3: health and wellness podcast in the world. Thanks to each

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Speaker 3: and every one of you that come back every week

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Speaker 3: to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is

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Speaker 3: probably our record holder of most times on the podcast,

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Speaker 3: which makes me very happy. I was just saying to

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Speaker 3: him offline that the doors of On Purpose will always

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Speaker 3: be open to him, because when I first kicked off

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Speaker 3: my interviewer journey, I had a show at HuffPost called

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Speaker 3: Followed Reader. It was on huff Post Live. I would

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Speaker 3: be on Facebook Live every single day interviewing authors. I

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Speaker 3: was just starting out, probably add like I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like one hundred thousand people who are connected to my work,

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Speaker 3: and he would always come on, and I think I

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Speaker 3: interviewed him twice there and then interviewed him at Nasdak

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Speaker 3: when I had a Nasdak Reads show. Then he came

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Speaker 3: on my podcast when I kicked off. I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: the one and only Ryan Holiday, one of the world's

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Speaker 3: best selling living philosophers. Ryan's books include The Obstacle Is

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Speaker 3: The Way, Ego Is the Enemy, The Daily Stoic Discipline,

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Speaker 3: His Destiny, and the number one New York Times best seller,

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Speaker 3: Stillness Is the Key, and appear in more than forty

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Speaker 3: languages and sold more than six million copies. Ryan's bookstore,

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Speaker 3: The Painted Porch, which I've not been able to visit yet,

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Speaker 3: but I really want to. It is one of the

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Speaker 3: most incredible products he's working on. And his new book

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Speaker 3: is The Daily Dad, three hundred and sixty five meditations

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Speaker 3: on parenting, love, and raising great kids. I even match

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Speaker 3: my T shirt, that's how much I love this book.

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Speaker 3: Go and grab a copy. You love Ryan's work, You're

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Speaker 3: gonna love this book. And there's someone who is preparing

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Speaker 3: and thinking about being a dad at some point in

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Speaker 3: his life. I'm really excited for this conversation. Welcome back

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Speaker 3: to On Purpose, Ryan Holiday. Ryan, thanks for being here. Man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about that first interview all the time

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Speaker 2: because I think my voice failed. If I'm remembering correctly,

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Speaker 2: I've been doing interviews for like days and days, and

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Speaker 2: then my voice just stopped and there was some sneaze.

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Speaker 2: Someone was like crawling on the floor, give me water

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Speaker 2: or whatever. But now every time I'm like, I hope

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Speaker 2: that doesn't happen again.

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Speaker 3: You got a good mate. That's exactly what happened. So

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Speaker 3: we're in this smaller room. Yeah, we weren't in the

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Speaker 3: studio that day for some reason, so we booked this

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Speaker 3: separate room in the office. And yes, your throat felling,

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Speaker 3: you were coughing, and you feel comfortable. And I'm looking

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Speaker 3: at the producer going game. Some wames work because there

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Speaker 3: wasn't water for some reason. Here we have plenty of water. Today,

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Speaker 3: you have your he brought his own everyone.

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Speaker 1: That's how much I think about it all the time.

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Speaker 3: And you're spot on. The producer literally crawled to avoid

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Speaker 3: being in the shot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and people don't I mean, obviously producers are sort

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Speaker 2: of an unsung role, but you don't understand all the

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Speaker 2: things that are going on behind the scenes that make

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Speaker 2: it not terrible. And yeah, I think she like crawled

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Speaker 2: under the floor and sneakly handed me the water.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Helena, why don't you do that? I've never seen

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Speaker 3: you do that because you're well prepared. No, I genuinely

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Speaker 3: meant what I said. I appreciate I love talking to you.

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Speaker 3: I've always been a fan of your ideas, and you

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Speaker 3: know to have I've had so many interactions with you.

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Speaker 3: It makes me very grateful.

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Speaker 2: So well, sometimes it's good when like something terrible happens,

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Speaker 2: I just think about it as like crossing it off

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Speaker 2: the list. Like I remember I gave this talk. This

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Speaker 2: is maybe like fifteen years ago. I gave a talk

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Speaker 2: at Yale. There's this thing called the Master's Tea, and

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Speaker 2: you give a talk in the house of one of

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Speaker 2: the headmasters at Yale. It's this sort of prestigious thing

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Speaker 2: that's really cool. I haven't given many talks. And I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting there and you sit on these couches and like

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Speaker 2: a handful of students are invited, and I'm sitting there

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Speaker 2: and I feel something on my shoulder and then I

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Speaker 2: look over and there's someone leaning on my shoulder, and

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Speaker 2: what's this? And I realized that one of the students

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Speaker 2: is falling asleep while I was talking. And so I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you know it'll never be that bad. That's like the

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Speaker 2: word you know you Sometimes you want to get the

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Speaker 2: terrible things out of the way, and then you're just

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Speaker 2: like all right, Like it doesn't matter how much I

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Speaker 2: screw up, how bad the podcast goes, It's unlikely my

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Speaker 2: voice will completely abandon me ever again.

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Speaker 1: And now I can rest to show.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing. Yeah, I got to have that's crazy. I

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Speaker 3: got to have one of those experiences early early on

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Speaker 3: in my life. I was like seven or eight years old,

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Speaker 3: and we used to do in London school assemblies that

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Speaker 3: celebrate everything from Hannukah to Christmas to Divali, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: And so it was Dvali, and coming from an Indian

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Speaker 3: background and a Hindu background, I was my mom had

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Speaker 3: volunteered for me to perform a peace in my not

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Speaker 3: even native language, but scriptural language, dressed up as an

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Speaker 3: ancient Indian prince king vibe. And so I go out there.

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Speaker 3: The clothes are not flattering, like it's not looking right,

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Speaker 3: and there's parts of my body showing. It's almost like

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Speaker 3: a toga, like an Indian toga. And I have to

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Speaker 3: read this thing, which I'm not very familiar with, and

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Speaker 3: I have to sing it too, and I have a

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Speaker 3: terrible singing voice. I can't sing to say my life.

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Speaker 3: And I start singing, and all my friends are in

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Speaker 3: the audience and they burst out laughing, and then I'm

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Speaker 3: getting really nervous, and everyone's laughing so much that I

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Speaker 3: start crying. And then I forget the lines because I'm

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Speaker 3: so nervous. So I look down to read them and

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Speaker 3: I can't read them because my tears have smudged the

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Speaker 3: words on the page. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: this is the most embarrassing part. My teacher comes on,

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Speaker 3: puts her arm around me, and walks me off stage.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't live that down. That was my first

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Speaker 3: over experience in public speaking. So no, no, I hope not.

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Speaker 3: I hope not now. But you know, I'm really excited

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Speaker 3: to talk to you about this. Was you just asked

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Speaker 3: me a question, and you know, we were just talking

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Speaker 3: about this, and I said, let's start recording because it's

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Speaker 3: a good, good conversation. You asked me if I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: about being a parent, and I was saying that me

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Speaker 3: and my wife have always wanted to have kids. But

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Speaker 3: it's really interesting because we'd set up a life that

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Speaker 3: we thought we were going to have. We bought a

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Speaker 3: house right next to her parents, near all our friends

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Speaker 3: in London. It was small but wonderful, and we were

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Speaker 3: surrounded by the community we thought we had. And then

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Speaker 3: my career took off in a very unexpected way, which

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Speaker 3: brought me to New York and now to la And

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Speaker 3: it's really interesting that as things started to change in

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Speaker 3: what we expected of life, our expectations of ourselves changed.

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Speaker 3: And that hasn't changed the desire to have kids. But

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Speaker 3: what did change was, you know, my wife got so

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Speaker 3: immersed in discovering her passion, something that she never even

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Speaker 3: thought she'd think about, and having discovered that, we started

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Speaker 3: to have Really we've always had really healthy, open conversations

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Speaker 3: around not when to have kids, because I think, to me,

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Speaker 3: that isn't necessarily the right conversation. To me, the healthiest

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Speaker 3: conversation with my wife has been do we know how

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Speaker 3: it's going to change our life to whatever degree you

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Speaker 3: can know? And are we ready for that change right now?

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Speaker 3: And that's kind of the structure that we've at least

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Speaker 3: placed for our conversations to have a healthy understanding for

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Speaker 3: each other.

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Speaker 2: I think what you said at the beginning, though, it

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Speaker 2: was interesting because so a lot of people talk about

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Speaker 2: having kids, but you said, are we going to be parents?

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Speaker 1: And I think that's an interesting distinction that we don't

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Speaker 1: talk about enough.

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Speaker 2: Right, Like having kids is biological or it's legal, right

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Speaker 2: you adopt, or you get a bonus kid from a marriage.

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Speaker 2: Like there is having kids, like people who live in

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Speaker 2: your house. And then there is the decision to be

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Speaker 2: a parent. And unfortunately, there are a lot more people

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Speaker 2: who have kids than there are people who are parents,

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Speaker 2: people who decide to make this a central part of

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Speaker 2: what they do.

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Speaker 1: Right, having kids is doing.

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Speaker 2: The legal bare minimum what you have to do to

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Speaker 2: keep child protective services away from your house. And then

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Speaker 2: there is the decision to say, I'm going to change

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Speaker 2: my life around this thing.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be the main.

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Speaker 2: Or one of the main things that I do, and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to be really good at it. Right,

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Speaker 2: Like most people spend a lot of time trying to

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Speaker 2: get great at their careers. They want to make more money,

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Speaker 2: they want to accomplish all these things. And then parenting

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Speaker 2: is kind of this thing that we we just hope

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Speaker 2: that we get right, we just win it right, and

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Speaker 2: that's a tragic, skewed sense of priorities.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a brilliant distinction. I'm so glad you

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Speaker 3: raised that. You reminded me of there's this Vedic verse

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Speaker 3: that says one should not take on the responsibility of

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Speaker 3: being a parent unless they're ready to enlighten their child. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Like there's that kind of the idea of what you

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Speaker 3: just said, of flipping the script of like when should

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Speaker 3: we have kids? Do I want to have kids to do?

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Speaker 3: I know what it means to be a parent, and

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Speaker 3: that's hard sometimes, Like it's a challenge because I think

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Speaker 3: all of us look at ourselves and we go we're flawed,

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Speaker 3: normal individuals with trauma, with challenges, and we're like, well,

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Speaker 3: maybe I don't deserve to have kids. You can go

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Speaker 3: the other way, or I'll never be quality to have kids. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The comedian Tom Segura has this bit where he goes,

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Speaker 2: you know, people say that having kids changes you, and

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Speaker 2: he goes, that's not quite right. It's that having kids

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Speaker 2: should change you, right, So like if you're not ready

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Speaker 2: to be changed. That's one of the things when people

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Speaker 2: ask me to go, I'm thinking about having kids, what

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Speaker 2: should I do? And I go, you have to be

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Speaker 2: ready for it to change you, Like, not only can

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Speaker 2: you not live and organize your life the same way,

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Speaker 2: but you're going to be opened emotionally, physically, spiritually in

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Speaker 2: all of these ways that if you're resistant to because

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Speaker 2: you liked the way things were before, you're not only

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Speaker 2: doing your kids a disservice, but I think you're doing

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Speaker 2: yourself a disservice because this is this is a profound,

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Speaker 2: you know, sort of shift on a human level, and

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Speaker 2: if you're not ready to be changed by it, you're

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Speaker 2: probably not ready to do it.

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Speaker 3: Were you disconscious about being a parent before you were

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Speaker 3: a parent or is it something that came from the process.

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Speaker 2: No, it definitely came from the process. Like you think,

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Speaker 2: you think you know and you have ideas, but it's

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Speaker 2: not until this thing happens.

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Speaker 1: To you that you go, oh, all these other.

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Speaker 2: Things aren't as important to me anymore. Right, I think

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Speaker 2: I do wish sometimes I think about wishing that I'd

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Speaker 2: done it earlier. There's this thing that happens when you

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Speaker 2: achieve what you set out to achieve, right, which is

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Speaker 2: that you realize it doesn't mean that much.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: You write a best selling book, you sell a screenplay,

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Speaker 2: you know, you have some number in your mind, and

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Speaker 2: then maybe it's winning a gold medal. You do something,

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Speaker 2: and then you get it and you go, oh, this

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Speaker 2: is like nothing, right, this is this didn't change what

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Speaker 2: I thought it would change. It didn't transform me in

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Speaker 2: the way that I thought it transformed me. I feel

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Speaker 2: lucky that I'd done a bunch of those things before

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Speaker 2: I had kids, because then I'd already I was already

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Speaker 2: wrestling with the not the emptiness, but I was wrestling

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Speaker 2: with the inescapable conclusion that piling accomplishments on top of

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Speaker 2: accomplishments is not the way that one finds meaning in

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Speaker 2: their life or their existence.

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Speaker 3: What do you think it does do? Then? Like, what

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Speaker 3: does it do in any goal? And of course some

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Speaker 3: goals are have a different scale to others. But the

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Speaker 3: idea of becoming a best selling author, or someone who's

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Speaker 3: listening saying I want to launch a big podcast, or

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Speaker 3: someone saying I want the way I look at it

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Speaker 3: is And I remember going on a really long walk

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Speaker 3: with you once, like through New York, before I'd ever

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Speaker 3: written a book or anything, and it was around the

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Speaker 3: time when I first interviewed you. If someone honestly asked

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Speaker 3: me when I was doing this type of work offline,

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Speaker 3: I actually A never believed it would be big, and

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Speaker 3: B was not trying to make it big. So if

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Speaker 3: someone would have asked me when I was whether I

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Speaker 3: was eighteen or whether I was twenty five, and said

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Speaker 3: to me, Jay, what's your goal here, my honest answer

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Speaker 3: would have been, I'm just trying to make ancient wisdom

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Speaker 3: relevant because I get joy out of that act in

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Speaker 3: and of itself, Like the act of studying, researching, and

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Speaker 3: simplifying brings me joy, sure, And I love teaching and

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Speaker 3: sharing and sharing those ideas with people and hearing what

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Speaker 3: they have to say about it. And so I was

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Speaker 3: doing that for five to ten people every week, for

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Speaker 3: hours every day. I was already happy. Now my life

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Speaker 3: changed when scale became possible, when a video by mistake

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Speaker 3: went viral, like it wasn't that I thought it would

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Speaker 3: go viral or whatever, and then life has changed. But

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Speaker 3: so partly my answer to that question, or my reflection

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Speaker 3: to the question I'm asking you, is I don't think

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Speaker 3: you should ever start something wanting it to be big.

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Speaker 3: In the first place. But what what does having a

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Speaker 3: goal achieve and what type of goal should we set? Well?

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Speaker 2: Lets Stokes talk about attaching your goals only to things

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Speaker 2: that are in your control. So if your ambition is

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Speaker 2: to be accepted by a certain group, to move a

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Speaker 2: certain number of units, to make a certain amount of money,

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Speaker 2: to be invited to certain club, you know, if things

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Speaker 2: line up, great, but there's also a very significant chance

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Speaker 2: that they won't line up. And so the idea is

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Speaker 2: that you tie your ambition, your intention, your your motivation

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Speaker 2: to the parts of it that are up to you.

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Speaker 2: I really like doing it. I get better. Like one

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Speaker 2: of the reasons I wrote the Daily Stoke and the

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Speaker 2: Daily Dad is that I have become better as a

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Speaker 2: person for the meditative practice of having to produce this

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Speaker 2: thing on a daily basis. So if it also then

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Speaker 2: goes on to be successful, then I get this sort

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Speaker 2: of this bonus success of the rewards or the royalties

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Speaker 2: or whatever. So it's I think you want to root

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Speaker 2: what you're trying to do as much as possible in

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Speaker 2: what is up to you. If you only enter competitions

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Speaker 2: where winning is up to you, you always be a winner, right,

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Speaker 2: And so if you if your goal is to beat

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Speaker 2: this other person, right, to be more than this other

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Speaker 2: person's other type of person. I remember I talked to

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Speaker 2: this author one and he was working on this book

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Speaker 2: and he said, I said, what's your goal? And he said, oh,

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Speaker 2: I want to sell like two million copies? And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: where'd that number came from? And he's like, well, I

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Speaker 2: heard somebody had sold a million copies and I doubled it.

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Speaker 2: And so the arbitrariness of just wanting to one up

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Speaker 2: some other person, it's not only sort of empty and trivial,

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Speaker 2: but like, it's not really rooted in anything that's up

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Speaker 2: to you, right, And I think the best way to

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Speaker 2: think about it is, is this thing up to me

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Speaker 2: or not? And what I have found is that when

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Speaker 2: you accomplish those things, it's great, but it doesn't fix

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Speaker 2: whatever you thought it was trying to fix. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: fill whatever you thought it was trying to fill. I

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Speaker 2: wish I could give to everyone that understanding as early

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Speaker 2: as possible. I do think it's probably something you have

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Speaker 2: to experience at some level on your own, but ideally

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Speaker 2: you experience it not on your fifth Super Bowl ring

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Speaker 2: and you go, oh, it's never you know ideally that

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Speaker 2: that comes as early as possible in the process. That

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean that once you figure out you stop doing it,

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Speaker 2: you do stop. You can keep doing it, but you've

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Speaker 2: just you've broken the connection between like your sense of

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Speaker 2: self and these external things that are not up to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that resonates. I feel like for me, growing

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Speaker 3: and learning are just such integral components of being alive

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Speaker 3: and feeling like there's progress and there's momentum that I

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Speaker 3: try and pick goals that I'm challenged by the growth

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Speaker 3: I'll have to make. I set goals based on the

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Speaker 3: growth I want, not based on the goal. So for example,

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Speaker 3: I just finished a nearly forty city world tour. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't that I wanted to go on a world tour.

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Speaker 3: To go on a world tour, It was like I

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Speaker 3: wanted the feeling of can I have I built up

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Speaker 3: my health and resilience. Can I go on stage every

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Speaker 3: night and deliver? What does it feel like to pour

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Speaker 3: love into the people who support my work. I've been

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Speaker 3: doing this for seven years online. Yeah, I've pretty much

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Speaker 3: never met more than one percent of my audience. If that,

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Speaker 3: What does it feel like to build community again? For people,

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Speaker 3: and that's the stuff that gets you through it when

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Speaker 3: it's tough, because the title or the whatever the external

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Speaker 3: reward would be doesn't motivate you. When I fell sick

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Speaker 3: in one city and I had to cancel a show

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Speaker 3: that night and the next day I had to wake up,

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Speaker 3: get on a flight and do two shows back to

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Speaker 3: back that day, And the only thing that gets you

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Speaker 3: through is I want to do this for my community.

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Speaker 3: This means something to me, Like there's this amazing thing

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Speaker 3: that I always think about because it blows my mind.

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Speaker 3: When Kobe Bryant passed away, his wife Vanessa was giving

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Speaker 3: a speech and she said that he was always playing

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Speaker 3: through injuries and everyone knew that, but no one really

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Speaker 3: knew the reason. And she asked him in a private conversation,

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Speaker 3: I believe one night, like why do you do it?

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Speaker 3: And he said, it's because someone is saved up to

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Speaker 3: watch me play and they might only ever be able

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Speaker 3: to afford one time to watch me play, sure, and

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Speaker 3: I don't want to let them down. And that's how

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Speaker 3: he played through injury. It wasn't that he wanted the

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Speaker 3: championship more, or that he wanted the ring more. It

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Speaker 3: was that I want to be there for my fans

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Speaker 3: who are showing up for me.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 3: I want to hear your thoughts on the Yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean you have.

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Speaker 2: You have my book Conspiracy right there, which I saw

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Speaker 2: when I came in. And that's my worst selling book.

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Speaker 1: It is not that it has.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's it's not sold well, but it's it's

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Speaker 2: the one that, without questions, people ask me what book

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Speaker 2: I'm most proud of.

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Speaker 1: It's that one.

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Speaker 2: And and that's because I grew the most writing. It

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Speaker 2: was the most outside my wheelhouse. It was the most challenging.

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Speaker 2: It was the one I had the most doubts as

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Speaker 2: to whether I could pull off. And it's the one

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Speaker 2: that sort of most authentically the interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: While I was doing it.

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Speaker 2: You love all the projects that you do, but that

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Speaker 2: one was just different, you know it was.

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Speaker 1: It was just different in so many ways. If you

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Speaker 1: can find a way.

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Speaker 2: When when the Stokes are saying, if you only enter

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Speaker 2: things that we're winning, is up to you, you always win.

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Speaker 2: What they're saying is that if it's intrinsically interesting and

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Speaker 2: compelling and challenging to you, you're doing it because you

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Speaker 2: like the puzzle of it, then you've already won, and

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Speaker 2: then everything else is extra. And you know, for basketball,

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Speaker 2: if you like playing basketball, and there's a reason it's

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Speaker 2: called playing right, if you like the thing, then then

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Speaker 2: all the other stuff is extra. But if for you,

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Speaker 2: winning is what gets you up out of it, well,

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Speaker 2: then what happens if you're drafted by a team that's

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Speaker 2: not any good, or what if you are crippled with

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Speaker 2: injuries or you know any number of things? Right, winning

404
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Speaker 2: is not up to you enjoying the day to day

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Speaker 2: thiss of it, the lacing up of the sneakers, the

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Speaker 2: squeaking of the shoes on the floor, the balancing of

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Speaker 2: the ball, like the warm ups, you know, the crew.

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Speaker 2: If you love all of that, then everything else is extra.

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Speaker 2: And you got to figure out how to love like

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Speaker 2: the purity of the thing itself and find something in

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Speaker 2: it that is fulfilling and wonderful just to you before

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Speaker 2: it's ever out. That's the purest place, and I've had

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Speaker 2: to do work on that. I've said this before, but

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Speaker 2: like probably with my first book, I was probably like

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Speaker 2: ninety percent interested in how it did and ten percent

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Speaker 2: like proud of what I've done. And I'd like to

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Speaker 2: think I've gotten that flipped. I mean, if you don't

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Speaker 2: care about it at all, like you're not going to

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Speaker 2: keep doing them, and you have partners, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you have employees, you have all these things that are

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Speaker 2: dependent on it doing well. But ideally, most of the

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Speaker 2: success is off the table just from having done it,

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Speaker 2: because what if it comes out on the day of

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Speaker 2: a terrorist attack or a natural disaster or a printer shortage, Like,

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Speaker 2: there's so many things that could happen that could get

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Speaker 2: between you and the thing that you wanted. But if

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Speaker 2: you enjoyed doing it, then then you've picked all the

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Speaker 2: fruit that's up to you to pick.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. You reminded me of a statement by George

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Speaker 3: Bernard Sure where he said, we don't stop playing because

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Speaker 3: we get old. We get old because we stop playing.

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Speaker 3: And it's that idea of just you're so right, Like

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Speaker 3: I feel out of touch with myself when I'm not

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Speaker 3: reading and learning and reflecting, Like that's when I feel misaligned.

435
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,439
Speaker 3: If my life gets too far away from finding new ideas,

436
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 3: experimenting with them, discovering them, trying to understand them and

437
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 3: wrap my head around them. If I'm not filling my

438
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 3: brain up with not just ideas theoretically, but even physically

439
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 3: trying something new, experimenting with something I've never done before,

440
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 3: I find that's when I'm misaligned with who I am.

441
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, look, success in your chosen field cannot be

442
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: not having time to do what you like to do

443
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: in said field, right, Like if I don't have time

444
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 1: to read, if I don't have time to write, if

445
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 1: I'm not on my routine, on my schedule, what kind

446
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: of success is that I've mortgaged myself for a bunch

447
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: of things that I don't want to do. You know,

448
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: those things might be lucrative, those things might be fun,

449
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 1: those things.

450
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 2: Might be rewarding in their own ways, But the main

451
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 2: thing is like what got you into this?

452
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: Right?

453
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 2: And if you don't have the time to do that,

454
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 2: what kind of success is that?

455
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 1: Right?

456
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 2: It can be very easy to just say yes to

457
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 2: all the things that are coming in and then you

458
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: wake up and you go it has been weeks since

459
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 2: I did X, Y or Z, like the things that

460
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: light me up?

461
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: Like what is the things that light you up?

462
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: And success should facilitate you being able to do as

463
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 2: much of those things as you want to do. Are

464
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: there always going to be administrative things and obligations and

465
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 2: business of course, but if you don't have time to

466
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: do the thing only you can do, Like, what kind

467
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 2: of life is that?

468
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty here. I'm excited to share

469
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 3: something true, truly transformative with you today. As many of

470
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 3: you know, I'm deeply passionate about health and wellness, and

471
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 3: I've invested into a groundbreaking company called function Health that

472
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 3: aligns perfectly with this passion. Function Health is a health

473
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 3: platform that's changing the game by empowering people to truly

474
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 3: understand what's happening inside their bodies and what they can

475
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 3: do to optimize their health. Think of it as an

476
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 3: early warning system for disease and a comprehensive guide to

477
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 3: managing your health. Imagine having access to over one hundred

478
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Speaker 3: lab tests that's five times more than a typical physical.

479
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 3: Function Health's annual membership includes extensive testing for your heart, hormones, thyroid,

480
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 3: cancer signals, liver, kidney autoimmunity, immunity, metabolic health, nutrients and minerals, inflammation, stress, aging,

481
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 3: heavy metals, toxins, electrolytes, and more. This comprehensive approach assists

482
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 3: you in having a clearer picture of your health and

483
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 3: actionable steps to prove it. One of the most remarkable

484
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 3: aspects of function Health is its accessibility. It's available across

485
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 3: the United States, partnering with Quest Diagnostics, which is over

486
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 3: two thousand locations within ten miles of most homes. And

487
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 3: get this through a membership with function Health that costs

488
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 3: just four hundred and ninety nine dollars a year. You

489
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 3: gain access to all of these tests that could cost

490
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 3: up to fifteen thousand dollars on your own. That's only

491
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: one dollar thirty seven per day. Function Health is for

492
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: everyone eighteen years or older and provides comprehensive testing for

493
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 3: both men and women, including deep hormone panels. Now here's

494
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 3: the exciting part. Function Health has a two hundred and

495
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Speaker 3: fifty thousand person wait list, but they've given early access

496
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Speaker 3: to a limited number of people in my community. Don't

497
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: miss out on this opportunity to take control of your health.

498
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 3: Go to functionhealth dot com forward slash jyshdy to get

499
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: started again. That's functionhealth dot com forward slash Jay Shetty

500
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: for early access. Let's make our health a priority together.

501
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 3: I know we both feel grateful and have charted our

502
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 3: own in some way. Similar parts from moving from a

503
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 3: corporate career to doing what we love today, and I

504
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: know we both feel very grateful to be able to

505
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 3: do that, But I want to go back to when

506
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 3: you were there, and even when I was there, I

507
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 3: think about what really worked for me was so I

508
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 3: was at extensia, if anyone who doesn't know, I was

509
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 3: at accentua after I left the monastery because I needed

510
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 3: to find a way to pay the bills and just

511
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 3: reconnect with the real world and figure out how I

512
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 3: fit in again. And the corporate world was what I

513
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: would have naturally done before, so it was where I

514
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 3: ended up, and I didn't enjoy being a consultant, like

515
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: that is not who I am in any way. But

516
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 3: at that time I didn't know what was possible, but

517
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: I knew that I could demonstrate my own skills at work.

518
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 3: So I started to plan these idea days at work

519
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 3: because that was something that work wanted, where I would

520
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 3: get to bring in speakers, is to help people be

521
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 3: more curious and excited. And I remember we had Sali Mishmel,

522
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: who wrote Exponential Organizations, come in one day and my

523
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 3: mind was blown because I was like, I'm going to

524
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: hang out with this guy, and there's another person who

525
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 3: was a writer and a speaker. And so I was

526
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 3: always trying to find ways it work to kind of

527
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 3: dovetail my career to get me into the things I

528
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 3: was interested by, and that worked for me as a

529
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 3: way of satisfying me at work, even though the actual

530
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 3: job day to day wasn't How were you doing that?

531
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 3: I know you enjoyed marketing and always have, but what

532
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: would you say to someone who's sitting here going, Yeah,

533
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 3: you guys are lucky. You get to do what you

534
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 3: love every day. Obviously, you just have to get the

535
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 3: percentages right. But I'm stuck in a job that hey.

536
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: Well it's funny. We did have very similar past I remember.

537
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: So I don't believe in this idea that you have

538
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: to like quit your job, blow up your life to

539
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: pursue some sort of thing. I wrote three books why

540
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 2: I was a full time employee at a large fashion brand,

541
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: and if you are good at what you do, you

542
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: can get leverage at that company to pursue these other things.

543
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 1: But I remember this.

544
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: Would have been like the summer of twenty fourteen. So

545
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: I'd written a couple of books and I had I've

546
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: gone back to American Apparel, where I was sort of

547
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: consulting in the turnaround of the company. I was getting

548
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: this huge consultant fee. I was making great money. And

549
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 2: I remember I was running in the morning and I

550
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,239
Speaker 2: got this like alert on my phone that I had

551
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: a meeting, like I had a staff meeting, and I

552
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: something hit me.

553
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: It hit me.

554
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: It was like how many people would kill to write

555
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: books for a living, which is what I wanted to

556
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 2: do more than anything, And here I am rushing to

557
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: get to a staff meeting because it's paying well, Like

558
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 2: this life is too short to be cutting short the

559
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: things that you want to do that help you be

560
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: better at what you do, you know, to go to

561
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: some meeting, and so at some point you make the transition.

562
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 2: But for me, the idea was as long as my

563
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: sort of corporate work was supporting and facilityating me doing

564
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: the other stuff, it was great. And then as soon

565
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: as they were fighting for the same resources that I

566
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 2: made that shift. But I think some people think that

567
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: it's it's about this sort of bold burn the boats.

568
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: Behind you think, And it can be. I mean, at

569
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: some point you do have to do that.

570
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: But I talk to people and they're like they're quitting

571
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: their job to write a book, but they haven't published

572
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: a single thing online. They haven't uploaded a single video,

573
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: you know, And just start, just start. You can start

574
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: way smaller than you think. And the first thing that

575
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: you put out there in the world should not be

576
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: a screenplay or a book or whatever.

577
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: Like you need.

578
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: You need so much interaction with the audience to find

579
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: out what they like, what you like, what resonates what

580
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: you know. I wrote online every day for something like

581
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: six years before I got paid a single dollar. I

582
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: started my first website in the summer of two thousand

583
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: and five, and my first book came out in the

584
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: summer of twenty twelve. You know, I didn't hit the

585
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: New York Times but for another five years after that.

586
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: It takes a long time. There's a great law, it's

587
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: called Hofstatters law, and it says that it always takes

588
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: longer than you expect. Even when you take this law

589
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: into account, right like, it's it's gonna take way longer

590
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: than you thought. And so if you quit in this

591
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: sort of dramatic gesture, you know you're not You're not

592
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: gonna have the runway to.

593
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: Pull it off. Right.

594
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: You need like a lot of runway, a lot of time,

595
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 2: and so that that was certainly my path, is it?

596
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: It took a lot longer than I thought.

597
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad you raised that, and I

598
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 3: love that tracking back of your journey just now. And

599
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: that law is awesome because it's it's so true when

600
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: it comes to anything in life. And for me, I

601
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 3: always say that to people because obviously I've been creating

602
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: online work for seven years now, and that feels like

603
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: a very short period of time for most people. Yeah,

604
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 3: but I'm like, no, Well, for ten years before these

605
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 3: seven years, I did this multiple times a week offline

606
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: to groups of five to ten people for three hours,

607
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: four times a week, three times a week, spending time

608
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: with people, coaching, mentoring, working for no money, for no followers,

609
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: for no fame, no success. And then on top of that,

610
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: did seven years of public speaking training before that, which

611
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: my parents forced me to go to after the event

612
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 3: that I told you about at the beginning, from age

613
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 3: eleven to age eighteen. So my public speaking communication journey

614
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: started at eleven. I'm thirty five today. That's twenty four

615
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: years of repetition.

616
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you need a lot of reps. You need way

617
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: more reps than you think that you do. And the

618
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: amazing thing about what social media and internet does is

619
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: that you can reach millions of people with your work.

620
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: The nefarious thing about it is we hear about someone

621
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: who uploads their first thing and blows up, and we

622
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: think that that's how it goes, right, and it doesn't.

623
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: It takes a long time, And I think what you're

624
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: trying to do is build. You know what a flywheel

625
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: is like, you're trying to You're trying to build this thing.

626
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: It takes a long a large number of slow, methodical

627
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: turns before it speeds up and speeds up and speeds

628
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: up and then it starts to really spin and spin

629
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: stuff off. It takes like a long a long time.

630
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: You know, when the obstacle is the way it came out.

631
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: It probably sold three thousand copies its first week. You know,

632
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: it's now sold millions of copies, But that's where it started, right.

633
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: And it took a long time.

634
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: And so when people look at this sort of algorithmic

635
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: success where they just upload a video and there's millions

636
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: and millions of views, they think that that's how it's

637
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: going to go. And really it's about sort of methodically

638
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: building this audience person by person and also building your

639
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: competence like rep by rep, you know, moment by moment,

640
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: so then when you you suddenly do get the audience,

641
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: you're actually ready for it. Like if I had gotten

642
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: the audience that I thought I wanted or deserved when

643
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: I wanted.

644
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: It, it would have been it would have been preposterous.

645
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember, I was actually just thinking about this

646
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: because I was just doing the marketing for Daily Dad

647
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: and I was in New York and I did the

648
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: Daily Show and I did CBS Sunday Morning, and I

649
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: did some I did a bunch of shows, and I

650
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: remember thinking back when my first book came out in

651
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, the publicists had me put together a list

652
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: of all of these outlets that I wanted to do,

653
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: and I don't think we got any of them.

654
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 3: Right.

655
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: It's not that they did a bad job. It's just

656
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: like we didn't get any of the things as I

657
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: wasn't ready and the media didn't care. And then I realized,

658
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 2: like on this launch, I did get those things, but

659
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: it took more than ten years longer than I thought

660
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: it would take, right, And now I'm getting it. But

661
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 2: if I had gotten them, then I wouldn't have been ready.

662
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been able to actually deliver, you know,

663
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: on those at bats. And so you think you want

664
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: it when you want it, but you don't, you know.

665
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: I heard something.

666
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: About the early days of Google where they were like,

667
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: eventually everyone's going to try our product, but if they

668
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: all try it now, we won't be able to deliver

669
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: for them. They knew that, they knew it was getting

670
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: better every day. So actually, from a marketing and a

671
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: promotions and a sort of trajectory standpoint, they wanted to

672
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: backload it as much as possible, not frontloaded, and that

673
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: can be really hard. That requires so much discipline and

674
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: so much patience to go. Actually, I don't want this

675
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: right now. I want it when I'm ready. I want

676
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: it when I'm good enough. You think you're being screwed,

677
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: You think you know other people are getting the shots

678
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: that you deserve, But it's actually for the best because

679
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: you're getting better every single day. Yeah, And so I

680
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 2: think about that of course with having kids too, Like

681
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: if I'd have kids when I earlier, I wouldn't have

682
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: been emotionally ready, you know.

683
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: Like, so it's it's patience is all.

684
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 3: That's the hard pop about patience, right, because I think

685
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: there's those two sides of the coin, where one's like,

686
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: I believe I deserve it, which we hear a lot

687
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: about and I want to dive into that with you,

688
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,719
Speaker 3: and then the other side of it is the mentality

689
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: of well, no, I'm going to be patient and I'll

690
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: be better when I get it.

691
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

692
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: And it's almost like, how does someone reconcile those two

693
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: things because everyone's told to like believe in themselves and

694
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 3: like know you're worth and kind of do this thing.

695
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 3: And I'm more along the lines of you because so

696
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 3: many things for me happened far more organically than by belief,

697
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: and they happened far more by action than they did

698
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 3: by thinking something. For me, it was, well, you're saying,

699
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 3: like when you first came on my show at huff Post,

700
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: It's like I went from having I was live every

701
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 3: single day with the guests for nine months, five days

702
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 3: a week, and then I did the Nasdaq thing where

703
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 3: I was live when I was connected to great authors

704
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 3: like yourself and other people that I could have on.

705
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: So I before I launched my podcast in twenty nineteen,

706
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 3: i'd done at least like two years of being live

707
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 3: every day and no one like that show wasn't big

708
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 3: or you know, it was good. It was good, definitely,

709
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: but it wasn't what the podcast is today. And it

710
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 3: was just like, but I got two years of reps

711
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 3: of doing interviews.

712
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I was telling you, like the caliber of

713
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: guests that you've been pulling on have been insane, right,

714
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: Like you been getting people that don't do podcasts, right,

715
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 2: And so I'm sure some of them you have tried

716
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: to get on for a while and you would have

717
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 2: been very excited to get them in twenty nineteen or

718
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 2: twenty twenty or six months ago. But you're better now, right.

719
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: So you think that you want it when you want it,

720
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: but it's better to get it later because you'll be

721
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: better later, right. And the patience and the confidence to

722
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: be like I don't have to force it. There's that

723
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: expression like don't run to catch trains. You know, It's

724
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: like there's something in that like if you don't need

725
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: to force it, if it's not a fit, it'll come

726
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: back around, right. And the idea that I sometimes think

727
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: that everything I've written so far, everything I've thought about,

728
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: is actually all prologue or preparation for an idea or

729
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: an idea in a moment in time that I can't

730
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: even conceive of yet. Like, you know, Michael Lewis the author,

731
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: Like he'd probably written fifteen books before the Big Short

732
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 2: came out right when the markets melded down in two

733
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 2: thousand and eight. He had written dozens of popular books

734
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: about finance, about sports, about you know, tech entrepreneurs, and

735
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: then that moment happened and he was the person to

736
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: write that book, which sold millions of copies, was turned

737
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: into a huge movie. That was when the man and

738
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: the moment met, right, And I think Churchill said something about, like,

739
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 2: you know, there comes this time in everyone's life where

740
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: you know, destiny taps you on the shoulder and he says,

741
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: it would be a shame if you weren't ready when

742
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: that happened. And so you know, everyone thinks they're ready

743
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 2: and they want it now, but you actually you don't

744
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 2: know what the future holds. And so just this sense

745
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: that like every day I get a little bit better.

746
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: I work on it all the time. I'm putting in

747
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 2: my reps, I'm following my process. I'm you know, putting

748
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: in the hours and I have this maybe it's a

749
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 2: little delusional, but I just have this vague sense that

750
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 2: there's a thing that I haven't even thought of yet

751
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: and that will be the best thing that I do.

752
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that kind of keeps me going.

753
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 3: What a beautiful way to live. That's spectacular. And at

754
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 3: one point I remember sitting with someone and he wasn't

755
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 3: trying to teach me. He wasn't a mentor. He was

756
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 3: just I was sitting with him at a wedding and

757
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 3: he was just telling stories of his life. And he

758
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: did quite a fascinating life because of something that his

759
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 3: dad did. And he used to just as a kid,

760
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 3: be following to the daily dad, like following his dad around,

761
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: and he was taken on crazy adventures and experiences as

762
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 3: a little kid just because his dad had a crazy job.

763
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 3: I used to listen to him and be like, Wow,

764
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 3: this guy just has so many stories. They're not achievements.

765
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,959
Speaker 3: They're not like I got an award or it wasn't

766
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 3: like oh and then I became invited. It was just

767
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 3: he had a great set of stories he was sharing.

768
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 3: And I realized that at one point I realized that

769
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 3: collecting experiences, collecting skills collecting abilities qualities was so much

770
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 3: more of a better pursuit. And I look at that

771
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 3: what you just said for me today, it's like I

772
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 3: chose to be a monk without knowing what it was

773
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: before that. I went to public speaking school because my

774
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: parents forced me to go, not knowing that. I never said, oh,

775
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: I really want to be a public speaker at eleven

776
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 3: years old. And then I went into the world of

777
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 3: accenture and learned about business and strategy, which was very,

778
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 3: very useful. And like today, I put all those three

779
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 3: things together. Sure, and my career is based off all

780
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: three of those experiences. But I could never have known that.

781
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 3: And it goes back to that famous Steve Job statement

782
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 3: of you can always connect the dots. You can't connect

783
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 3: the dots moving forward. You only can looking backward. And

784
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 3: so when you're living, it's almost like collect experiences and

785
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 3: skills and abilities and relationships. When I was interviewing all

786
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 3: those years ago, I would never have known that we

787
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 3: would still be friends and we would connect and support

788
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 3: each other. You've supported my books, but you're just collecting

789
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: that connection and relationship, if that makes sense. Yeah.

790
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 2: One of my men towards the writer Robert Green, He said,

791
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: one of the great things about being a writer is

792
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: that it's all material. That everything that happens to you

793
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 2: is material. And so if you just go through your

794
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: life going, hey, I don't know why I got dumped here,

795
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 2: I don't know why my house flooded, I don't know

796
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 2: why any of this stuff happened to me. But I'm

797
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: going to choose it as I'm going to choose to

798
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: see it as something that's happening for me as an artist,

799
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: a leader, a parent, a spouse, that this is teaching

800
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: me something. Right, when we say that the obstacle is

801
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: the way, it's not that, hey, this thing happened and

802
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 2: now as a result, your business is ten x better off. Right,

803
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: Like it, sometimes just shit happens, bad shit happens, but

804
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: you learned from it, or it forced you to grow

805
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 2: in some way. Just the sheer hanging onness of it

806
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: made you stronger and better. Right, It's not that, hey,

807
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: there's this magical you know, opportunity in this that there's

808
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: this just slightly secret silver lining and then everything's awesome. No,

809
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: it's it's much deeper than that. Yeah, it's that the

810
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 2: stuff that happens is shaping you. And forming you and

811
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 2: giving you opportunities to you know, evolve as a human being.

812
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: That's that's what that idea is.

813
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 2: And so you know, there are things that I've gone

814
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: through my life that end up shaping my writing for

815
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: things that I don't even know. I didn't know until

816
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 2: I sat down that day that that would come back out, right,

817
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 2: And so it's just this, Yeah, it's this process of

818
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: accumulating experiences, accumulating insights, accumulating you know, things that you've read,

819
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: and then it all funnels ultimately into the work.

820
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 3: And what a great way to live knowing that your

821
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 3: best work is still ahead of you.

822
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope. So, I mean maybe not right, maybe not.

823
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: I believe it.

824
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 3: I believe it for you, I believe for me. I

825
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 3: think that's a great way to live and think. Yeah,

826
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 3: I mean your best work doesn't have to be a

827
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 3: most successful work, of course, that's what I mean.

828
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I'm just saying That's that's how I get

829
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 2: up every day, is that I think, hey, there is

830
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 2: this thing in the future. Maybe I won't be ready

831
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 2: for it, maybe I won't be around, but I like

832
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 2: to think that it's all built in towards something.

833
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, and I feel like when I look back

834
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: at some stages in you know, the Vedic tradition and

835
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 3: even in the Hindu tradition, there were these amazing people

836
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 3: that excavated temples like old sites that historical things had

837
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 3: happened at. Yeah, but no one really knew about it,

838
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 3: so no one would really visit. But today, five hundred

839
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: to one thousand years later, sure pilgrims visit these places.

840
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: And they did that believing and knowing that one day

841
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 3: this place will be of significance, but not maybe in

842
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 3: my lifetime. And so they were able to fast forward

843
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 3: their service in one sense, or their passion, knowing that

844
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: one day this will serve others. One day this will

845
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: mean something to people, even if it doesn't right now,

846
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: even if it's seen as valueless right now.

847
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: No, it's kind of beautiful to go through life and

848
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 2: go like, hey, somebody planted this tree, so we built

849
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: this road. Somebody created this institution. Somebody fought for a

850
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 2: very specific way of setting it up or thinking about it.

851
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: Somebody went to prison over this, right, somebody crossing like

852
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: all of us are the lucky recipients of investments that

853
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 2: people made a long time ago, and there's this Christian

854
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: idea like you've been given a free gift, so you

855
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 2: have to give freely yourself. And the idea that like, yeah,

856
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 2: we are the we in the present are living in

857
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 2: a future that other people dreamed of, right, and so

858
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 2: what is it that you are contributing to the next future?

859
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: Right?

860
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 2: What trees are you planting? What difference are you making?

861
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: What work are you creating? And again like, yeah, you're

862
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: writing this book and you hope it sells it now,

863
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 2: but maybe it sells five hundred years from now. Maybe

864
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 2: it's rediscovered then, like that we consume works of art

865
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: that were totally obscure or unappreciated in their own time

866
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: that we came back around to. And so the idea

867
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: of owing the future something I think is a really

868
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 2: beautiful idea. There's that quote like the world is great

869
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 2: when old men plant trees in whose shade they'll never know?

870
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: And what about you? Right, like, what what have you planted?

871
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 2: What are you contributing? What are you giving away? Is

872
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: a way to measure your own life?

873
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, one of the chapters that step up from

874
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 3: your book that I love is Cooled. Yeah, I wanted

875
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 3: to pick it up. Oh, yeah, raise a reader.

876
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

877
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 3: And it stuck with me because I was a kid

878
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 3: who never liked reading until fourteen, and now I consider

879
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 3: myself a voracious reader. Absolutely, It's my favorite way of learning.

880
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 3: And I realized it was because school always gave us

881
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 3: fiction books, and so we'd get story books and a

882
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 3: big one we'd get a lot of was Goosebumps. Yeah,

883
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 3: and then you'd read it Roll Dahl and you'd read

884
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: you know, these incredible authors. But fiction just never resonated

885
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 3: with me. And I remember it took my dad giving

886
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 3: me like a biography or an autobiography that triggered it.

887
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 3: And I remembered my first ever books that I got

888
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: really into were David Beckham's autobiography Dwaine the Rock Johnson

889
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: when he was a wrestlers but autobiography, and then the

890
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: biography of like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. And

891
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 3: so it was really interesting to me how my parents

892
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 3: wanted to raise a reader, but it took them a

893
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 3: long time to understand what that meant. How are you

894
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 3: raising readers and what does that mean to you? And

895
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 3: why is that important?

896
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: It is strange, I think one of the things that

897
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 2: gets in the way of people falling in love with

898
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: books is that there's kind of a snootiness in it,

899
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 2: and there's this sense that there's literature, and then there's

900
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: all these other books. It's weird that we tell high

901
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: school that they should read these like sort of artistic

902
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: novels and that this is what literature is, and then

903
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: they go, well, I didn't like The Great Gatsby, which

904
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: is an incredible book, or I didn't like Grapes of Wrath,

905
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: so I'm not a reader. Meanwhile, there's all these books

906
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 2: about what it's like to be a teenager. There's books,

907
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 2: there's memoirs from athletes that there's all these awesome things

908
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 2: that they would actually that would actually reach them and

909
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 2: speak to them, that could sort of inculcate that that

910
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 2: identity of being a reader. And so like with with

911
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 2: my with my oldest son who's six, like, we don't

912
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: read the books that I like that I think he

913
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: would be into. We read books about Minecraft because he's

914
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: obsessed with video games and like, to me, this is

915
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: like barely a book, but you know, but to him

916
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: it's it's a way to learn more about this thing

917
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: that he's interested in, which is what reading is. And

918
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 2: they've they've done this interesting study of kids reading. Like

919
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: if you remember as a kid, you know you'd have

920
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: to read some like essay or short story or whatever,

921
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: and this is how they would test your reading comprehension. Well,

922
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: they found that if they gave kids, say, a paragraph

923
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: about baseball, they would read it much better than if

924
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: they gave them some weird story about like some girl

925
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: with a cookie or something. Right, And what they were

926
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: finding is that when the kids knew what they were

927
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 2: reading about or interested in it, they would it would

928
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: resonate with them more. I just don't like the idea

929
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 2: that we exclude people from this amazing, wonderful thing that

930
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: is reading. You see this even in publishing, where like

931
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: physical books are considered higher than audiobooks and ebooks. And

932
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 2: I personally don't read audiobooks and I don't like reading ebooks.

933
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm a physical book person.

934
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 2: But all I want is for people to read, right,

935
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 2: like I want them to consume it in whatever medium

936
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: they want to consume things. Yes, and so just meeting

937
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: people where they are to me is the main way

938
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: that you raise readers. And it's we just get in

939
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 2: our own way on these things. Like I've read so

940
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: many books even since I've gotten older.

941
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: Like about where I grew up, and I'm.

942
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: Like, why didn't anyone tell me, Like like Joan Didion

943
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: is from the same town that I grew up in,

944
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: and nobody told me that. Right, I had to read

945
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: these other novels that didn't resonate with me. But if

946
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 2: I this lady was from where I'm from, that would

947
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 2: have resonated with me at such a deeper level, Right,

948
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: And I try to think about what does the person

949
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: want to learn? What do they have a problem with?

950
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 2: How do we find a book that solves that problem?

951
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 2: Because that's when the light bulb flips when a book

952
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: solves a problem for you or there's an ROI to it, Right,

953
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 2: that's what lights of And then maybe you'll go read

954
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: something that's purely artistic, it doesn't have any of that,

955
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 2: but you really got to find where the book does

956
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: something for someone.

957
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you brought that up because I think

958
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people ask me, like Jay, what should

959
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 3: I read? Like? And my number one question to them

960
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:56,959
Speaker 3: is what are you struggling with? Like, that's the question

961
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 3: I have to ask back, And I say I could

962
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 3: recommend a lot of books, but what are you struggling with?

963
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: Then I find that that's often where someone gets stumped,

964
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 3: where that's not necessarily how they've been trained to look

965
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,879
Speaker 3: for reading. We've been trained to look for in terms

966
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 3: of entertainment, which is great and I have nothing against that,

967
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 3: or we've been trained to be like, oh, it's the

968
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 3: smart thing to do, or like that's like you're saying

969
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 3: this elitist mindset of if you're reading, then you're thoughtful,

970
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: which I don't subscribe to at all, and so then

971
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 3: you actually lose it. Like for me, we were growing

972
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 3: as a team, my company was growing over the last

973
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 3: couple of years. So literally all I've read is hiring books,

974
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 3: culture books, leadership books. That's all I've been reading. And

975
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 3: it has been the best investment and it has solved

976
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 3: so many problems and it has solved so many challenges

977
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 3: or mindsets I didn't have, And I think that's such

978
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 3: I just want to highlight that point because I feel

979
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 3: the same way that if you're struggling to know what

980
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 3: to read, look at what your challenge is, look at

981
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 3: what your struggle is, look at what problem you're trying

982
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 3: to solve, and you'll naturally be more inclined and immersed.

983
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 2: It's important to realize that pretty much anything you're going through,

984
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: someone has gone through before and written a book about.

985
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 2: Maybe they succeeded and they wrote a book about their successes,

986
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: or they failed and they wrote a book about their failures. Right,

987
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: there are almost no new human problems. People have been

988
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: doing whatever it is that we're doing for thousands of years,

989
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: and to not avail yourself of that knowledge is insane.

990
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: General Maddis was a four star general in the Marines

991
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: who Secretary of Defense sort of this he's known as

992
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: this kind of warrior monk because he's not just this

993
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: war fighter, but he's also this deeply thoughtful sort of

994
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 2: student of his craft. And he pointed out he points

995
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: this out to like the young soldiers. He says, like, hey,

996
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 2: people have been fighting on battlefields for as long as

997
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 2: humans have existed, and the earliest literature is about this, right,

998
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: you know, whether we're talking about Homer or Gilgamesh. You know,

999
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: the idea that you would not avail yourself of the

1000
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 2: lessons they've learned. And he's like it's insane, you know.

1001
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 2: He's like, the mistakes you're making cost people things, and

1002
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: so to make a mistake by trial and error that

1003
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 2: someone else has already gone through is reckless and irresponsible.

1004
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 2: And he has this great quote I think about all

1005
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: the time.

1006
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: He says.

1007
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: He says, if you haven't read hundreds of books about

1008
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: like what it is that you do, he.

1009
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: Said, you're functionally illiterate.

1010
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 2: Right, illiterate not in the sense that you can't read,

1011
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 2: but a literate in the sense that you haven't read.

1012
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: And it's the same thing, right, if you haven't read it,

1013
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: you don't know about it, and the fact that you

1014
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: could is irrelevant. What matters is have you read about this?

1015
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: And so just realizing that whether it's parenting or starting

1016
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: a business or you know, being successful or creating social change,

1017
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 2: like people have been through this a long time and

1018
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: they have really thoughtful things to say about it. And

1019
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: to not avail yourself to that knowledge just go I'll

1020
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 2: figure it out on my own is not only inefficient,

1021
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: but it's irresponsible, right, Like you could have succeeded earlier,

1022
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 2: You could have had the impact earlier, You could have

1023
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 2: saved yourself going down this road or that road, but

1024
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: you didn't because you thought you were too smart.

1025
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: Epicity.

1026
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: This is you know, it's impossible to learn that which

1027
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 2: you think you already know. And so part of reading

1028
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 2: is also the idea of humility, the idea of like

1029
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: I don't know about this. I want to know about this.

1030
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 2: Somebody knows more about me, more about this than me.

1031
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: That's the mindset of a reader that you want to cultivate.

1032
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 2: And we think about this with our kids, like they'll

1033
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 2: ask us questions and we'll like kind of know the answer,

1034
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 2: and we'll start to answer, and then we stop ourselves

1035
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: and we go, no, let's go find out about this together, Like,

1036
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 2: let's look this up.

1037
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: Like there's this magical thing called Google.

1038
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 2: We can look it up, right, we can read a

1039
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 2: Wikipedia page about it, we can buy a book about it.

1040
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: I want to teach them the habit of I'm curious

1041
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: about that. I want to go down the rabbit hole

1042
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 2: and figure it out. Just guessing or.

1043
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: You know, half ass in.

1044
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: It is not is not the mindset that makes you

1045
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 2: So you want to be the person that figures stuff.

1046
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: Out and is good.

1047
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 2: It has the tools and the determination to figure stuff out.

1048
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: That's what you want your kids to have.

1049
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and are your kids at school now, yes? Yeah,

1050
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 3: So how are you and they're going to a like

1051
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: a regular national curriculum, like they're learning, they're learning the

1052
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 3: curriculum that they're teaching the US.

1053
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1054
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, So like with that kind of like how are

1055
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: you I guess I find that as parents, it's natural

1056
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 3: to want to save our kids from the mistakes we

1057
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 3: made or protect them from the wrong turns we took.

1058
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 3: I would love to hear your philosophy or your thoughts

1059
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 3: or your approach right now, especially with the Daily Dad,

1060
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 3: on how are you doing that or are you trying

1061
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 3: to limit your projection and onto them, like how do

1062
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: you deal with them as fresh humans? But then also

1063
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 3: your thoughts around the world and how school works, and

1064
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 3: how do you navigate the fact that you can always

1065
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 3: think you know what's right for your kids, but most

1066
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: of what you think is what is right for them

1067
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 3: is based on what you think was wrong for you.

1068
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I mean I heard an interview with Brian

1069
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 2: Grasier Wants, the movie producer.

1070
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's been on the pod.

1071
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 2: He's dyslexic, right, and that dyslexia shaped him and formed

1072
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: him into being this brilliant creative uh you know, sort

1073
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 2: of producer and cultivator of talent, and so someone asked like, well,

1074
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 2: would you want your kids to go through it was

1075
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 2: so formative in shaping and he was like, are you

1076
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 2: out of your mind? So there is this sense that

1077
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 2: the struggles we went through, if we can spare our

1078
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 2: kids them, that's great. And then at the same time

1079
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 2: we also understand that if you spare your kids all

1080
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 2: trouble and all difficulty, they've become very fragile. And so

1081
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 2: it's this kind of tension between you know, I sort

1082
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: of like, if you want your kid's life to be

1083
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 2: good but not easy, right, like so where you can

1084
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 2: prevent needless suffering or struggle or pain you want to,

1085
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 2: and then at the same time, if you do everything

1086
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 2: for them, you're actually making life so much harder for them.

1087
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: So that's why I like this idea of like, hey,

1088
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 2: if they think that they can just come to me

1089
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: for all answers, they're not developing.

1090
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: The ability to figure stuff out for themselves.

1091
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 2: So what I want to do is model like I

1092
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 2: may already know the answer, I may already think I

1093
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: know the answer, but I want to figure it out

1094
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 2: with them together.

1095
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: That's what we want to do.

1096
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 2: And I sort of think about that as a general

1097
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 2: parent in philosophy.

1098
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like what you're saying. That big said thing.

1099
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 3: It applies in coaching, it applies in mentorship, it applies

1100
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 3: in a relationship. Like doing things for other people often

1101
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 3: feels like love. Yeah, but actually it isn't love because

1102
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 3: it deabilitates them from learning how to do it, and therefore,

1103
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 3: do things with people is better than doing things for people.

1104
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 3: I if you were to be like, I don't know

1105
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 3: how far the moon is from planet Earth, and you

1106
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 3: went and checked it on your phone and then just

1107
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 3: told your kid the answer is different to saying, hey,

1108
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 3: let's both sit down on Google and let's look at

1109
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 3: the moon, and then let's look at Jupiter and Saturn

1110
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 3: and let's look at the entire you know, solar system,

1111
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 3: and right, that's what I'm totally Yeah.

1112
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to show them how to figure it

1113
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 2: out for themselves. You want to equip them with the

1114
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: tools to do it, because you're not always going to

1115
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: be there to do it for them, like they there's

1116
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 2: there's helicopter parenting. People know about that, and there's this also,

1117
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 2: this one they talk about. It's called snowplow parenting, and

1118
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: snowplow parenting is going ahead of your kid and clearing

1119
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: all obstacles and difficulties out of their path, which again

1120
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: feels like a form of love, and yet it's also

1121
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: quite cruel because eventually you won't be there and they

1122
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 2: will have to experience those obstacles and if they haven't

1123
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 2: built the skills or the strength, or the confidence, the

1124
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 2: sense of self. It says, I'm a person that knows

1125
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 2: how to solve problems, they're going to be in serious trouble.

1126
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that must be so hard. I'm not a parent,

1127
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 3: so that must be so hard because when you see

1128
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 3: this innocent, adorable kid and they're going through some pain

1129
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 3: or challenge in it, and you want to give them

1130
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 3: the skills of how to solve their own problems, which

1131
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 3: I do believe is probably, if we had to debate out,

1132
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 3: it's probably the most useful skill of all time, is

1133
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 3: how do you solve any problem?

1134
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: Well, I was thinking about this recently.

1135
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 2: There's this singer Morgan Wade, and she has this new

1136
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 2: song and there's a lyric in it. She says something like,

1137
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 2: all of your dreams are a parent's fears, and if

1138
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 2: you think about your own life right, all of the

1139
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 2: things that are good in your life came from risks

1140
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 2: that you took. For me, it was dropping out of college.

1141
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: You know, my wife and I, you know, we got

1142
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 2: together super early, we moved in. We did things that

1143
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: in retrospect we're crazy and people probably thought were bad ideas.

1144
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: I made career decisions that were crazy.

1145
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 2: I did all these risks, and I wouldn't be here

1146
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 2: without the risks. And so one of the things that's

1147
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 2: hard as a parent is realizing that, like more than anything,

1148
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 2: what you want is for your kid to be safe, right,

1149
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 2: And so there's almost this inherent conflict, right, like a

1150
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: person wants to be happy and fulfilled and do cool

1151
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 2: things and a parent wants nothing bad to happen. Ever, right,

1152
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 2: And the ability to realize that there is a tension

1153
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 2: there that the thing you want more than anything will

1154
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: ultimately smother and deprive them of the thing that they

1155
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 2: want more than anything.

1156
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: It's all of it.

1157
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 2: Like when I dropped out out of college, you know,

1158
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 2: my parents took it really badly, Like it crushed them.

1159
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:54,959
Speaker 2: You know, they'd worked so hard, I think so much

1160
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 2: wrongly of their identity was tied up in my sister

1161
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: and I's success. Want to be the parents that had

1162
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: a kid that dropped out of college because that's weird

1163
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: at you know, a party or something to talk about,

1164
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: and maybe it was a bad decision.

1165
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: Maybe it ended up working out, but maybe it was

1166
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: a bad decision.

1167
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 2: And so I did it, but then immediately after, a

1168
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 2: bunch of really bad stuff happened, Like it ended up

1169
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 2: being way harder than I thought for a bunch of reasons.

1170
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 2: And what I really needed then was parents, right. And

1171
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 2: so my parents worried that I was doing this thing

1172
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: that was dangerous, didn't support me doing it, and then

1173
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: they weren't there when I needed their actual support, right,

1174
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 2: And so it's it's understanding that like what you what

1175
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 2: you need to do is not like be right about

1176
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: stuff or get your way, but to sort of show

1177
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 2: them that you're there for them whatever happens, and that

1178
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 2: maybe that's the way that you cut through this tension

1179
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 2: of like we don't want them to do anything that's dangerous,

1180
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: but if your fear of that pushes them away, then

1181
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: when they are in danger, they're not going to come

1182
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 2: to you, right, And that's what you should fear more

1183
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 2: than anything.

1184
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: I am.

1185
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 2: I interviewed this guy's name was Dave Carrie. He's Captain

1186
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 2: Dave Carry. He was a pow in Vietnam, and he

1187
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 2: said something to me that I think about now all

1188
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 2: the time as a parent. He said, the goal of

1189
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: every conversation as a parent is to get to have

1190
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 2: the next conversation, right.

1191
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: And I think about that in life.

1192
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 2: In business, it's almost like every decision you make, it's

1193
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 2: it's am I closing doors here? Am I burning bridges

1194
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 2: behind me? Am I shutting things down? Or am I

1195
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 2: keeping things open?

1196
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: Right? Life is about options? How many options do you have?

1197
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 2: And just realizing, hey, this conflict, this disagreement, this tension.

1198
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 2: You know, the main thing that you're gonna want with

1199
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 2: your kids in the future is that relationship. And nothing

1200
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: is more important than that. And so I think about

1201
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 2: that all the time.

1202
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean reflecting on what you're saying. I

1203
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 3: feel like that was something that was so like my

1204
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 3: parents when I did decide to become a monkey, it

1205
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 3: was like that was uncomfortable for them. I never went

1206
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 3: to my graduation ceremony. I graduated, but never went to

1207
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 3: have the picture taken. And that was a big thing

1208
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 3: because everyone's house we'd go to they've had pictures of

1209
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 3: their kids, you know, with their little scroll and the

1210
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 3: hat and all the rest of it. But it was

1211
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 3: the same. It was they didn't support it and they

1212
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 3: didn't block me, and then when I failed at it

1213
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 3: or when it all ended, they were there to catch me.

1214
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 3: I moved back in with them. And those two statements

1215
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 3: you put two of the chapters in the book are

1216
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 3: always be a fan and love unconditionally. And I was

1217
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 3: reflecting on those and I was like, I think my

1218
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 3: parents have always loved unconditionally, Like they've been able to

1219
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 3: have this relationship with me where, yeah, I would totally

1220
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 3: give them credit for that, where they never let me

1221
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 3: feel like they weren't there for me, regardless of even

1222
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 3: if my choices were totally against theirs. And I respect

1223
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 3: them a lot for that because I made it hard. Man.

1224
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 2: No, No, it's beautiful, and kids do make it hard, right,

1225
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 2: and it's it's going to be a challenge. There's a

1226
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 2: story about Jim Volvano, the basketball coach. He realizes it

1227
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 2: like ten or twelve or thirteen or whatever, they wants

1228
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 2: to be a basketball coach, and he tells his dad,

1229
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 2: he says, I'm gonna I want to be a college

1230
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 2: basketball coach and knows okay. And then the next day

1231
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 2: his dad calls him into his bedroom and he says,

1232
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: what's going on, And the dad says, see that suitcase

1233
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 2: and the son says yeah, and he says it's packed,

1234
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 2: and he says why and he says, it's packed for

1235
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: when you coach in the final four. You know, and

1236
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 2: this idea of like your kid has this dream and

1237
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 2: you don't judge it, you know, tell them that it's unrealistic.

1238
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: You don't tell him it's crazy. You don't let him

1239
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: know how hard it's going to be. You also don't

1240
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 2: take it over and say, well, here's.

1241
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: What you're going to need to do. You just go,

1242
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for you. Is a beautiful thing.

1243
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 2: And too much of the love that parents have or

1244
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 2: the support is conditional on whether it's going well, whether

1245
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: it's socially acceptable, whether it's understandable or not.

1246
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of parents want their

1247
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: kids to be.

1248
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: Doctors and lawyers because they know what doctors and lawyers

1249
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 2: are right, and social media manager sounds made up right,

1250
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 2: even if one pays better than the other, even if

1251
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 2: one is what lights the kid up and they hate

1252
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 2: the other thing where they just want this desire to

1253
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 2: understand gets in the way of just support, which is

1254
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 2: really what it comes down to, this sense that hey,

1255
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 2: these people, these people believe in me. These people really

1256
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 2: believe in me.

1257
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I feel like with my parents, I probably

1258
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 3: had more of a neutral relationship where I wouldn't say

1259
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,919
Speaker 3: they were believing in me or routine for me, sure,

1260
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 3: but they weren't putting it down yes, And so it

1261
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 3: was more a bit like let's.

1262
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: Start there, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you make your.

1263
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 3: Decisions and whatever, like it's not like we believe in

1264
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 3: you and it's going to be great, and it's not

1265
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 3: like we're trying to hold you back. I think a

1266
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 3: lot of us today though, And I think the difference

1267
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 3: for me was I had such conviction and I always

1268
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 3: have when I've made my choices. And it sounds like

1269
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 3: you did too, obviously in the way you described it,

1270
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 3: where I didn't really care what anyone thought, and I

1271
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 3: still kind of them that way, like I'm like, whatever,

1272
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to do what I want anyway. And I

1273
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 3: think a lot of people like want their parents to

1274
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 3: like root for them, and I hear this a lot

1275
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 3: with it, Like people say to me, like Jay, Like

1276
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 3: my parents don't believe in me, and like no one's

1277
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 3: like encouraging me and on supporting me. What do I

1278
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 3: do in that situation? And so it's interesting because we

1279
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 3: also have that inbuilt desire for our parents to root

1280
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 3: for us. But as in your case and as in

1281
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 3: many others, and even in mind in a different way,

1282
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 3: your parents aren't going to be your biggest cheerleaders all

1283
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 3: the time, and most of us didn't have that experience.

1284
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 3: So while you're trying to be a dad who is

1285
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 3: unconditional and a fan, you didn't get that, and majority

1286
01:03:58,240 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 3: people in the world didn't get that.

1287
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 1: So how no one can screw you up?

1288
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 2: I remember I was I was in business with someone

1289
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 2: and he was doing something kind of crazy. I forget

1290
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: what it was, but someone brought up I was like,

1291
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: why is he like this? And he goes, if you

1292
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 2: just translate everything he's saying into daddy, daddy, look at me,

1293
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 2: it all makes sense and you realize this person didn't

1294
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 2: get kind of approval or attention from their parents, and

1295
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 2: it drove them to be successful in business, but it

1296
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 2: also made them a liability in business because they weren't

1297
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 2: dealing with the situation at hand. They were dealing with

1298
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 2: this sort of unfulfilled, unmet desire to get attention, to

1299
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 2: be recognized, and that's a really that's a really dangerous thing,

1300
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 2: you know, and I think get the core of it.

1301
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 2: A good number of men are just motivated by wanting

1302
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 2: their dad to be proud of them, and the sooner

1303
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 2: you realize that if your dad wasn't proud of you

1304
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 2: at the beginning, no amount of success is going to

1305
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 2: make you feel that later.

1306
01:04:58,320 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: Right.

1307
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 2: I do think there's this great quote from Marcus Realised

1308
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 2: that that is a really important piece of parenting advice

1309
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 2: that I try to think about. He says, you know,

1310
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 2: things are not asking to be judged by you, and

1311
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 2: he says, remember you always have the power of having

1312
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 2: no opinion.

1313
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: So being a fan, being a.

1314
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 2: Supporter, being a cheerleaders, that's where you want to get

1315
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 2: as a parent. But what if you just started by

1316
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 2: not having an opinion, Like, your kid is your kid,

1317
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 2: and they're going to do what they want to do

1318
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 2: and they're going to be who they are. The fewer

1319
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 2: opinions you have about that, the better your relationship is

1320
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 2: going to be. Absolutely, you think back with your relationship

1321
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 2: with your parents, and you think about the arguments that

1322
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 2: you had, the things you fought about, and how in retrospect,

1323
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 2: how small those things seem and how little they mattered.

1324
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 2: Because what matters now is that there is the relationship, right,

1325
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 2: What matters is that there's still the affection and the feeling,

1326
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 2: and that you spend time together.

1327
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: And yet there were moments.

1328
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: Where it seemed like they were willing to trade that

1329
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 2: to enforce some arbitrary rule or some cultural norm or

1330
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 2: you know, force you into some box that.

1331
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: They had for you.

1332
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: And the fewer opinions you have, the better, I think

1333
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 2: as a parent, Like your kid likes this video game.

1334
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 2: The fact that you think video games are dumb is

1335
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 2: an opinion that you don't need to have.

1336
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, keep it to yourself. Yeah, And how do you

1337
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 3: deal with it on the other side, Like I find

1338
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 3: that I'm sure a lot of people listening they're like,

1339
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 3: I wish my parents had that mindset right, because they didn't.

1340
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 3: But then how do you still live a meaningful, fulfilling

1341
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 3: life Because so much of who we are is wrapped

1342
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 3: up in this entire relationship, and you find, as you said,

1343
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 3: we are like I'm going to do my own thing

1344
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 3: because I want to control my life. But we're still

1345
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 3: controlled by the expectation of being successful because our parents

1346
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 3: want us to be successful. So we're still trying to

1347
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 3: prove them wrong or right. And so how do you

1348
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 3: kind of what do you do in that scenario where

1349
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 3: someone's lived a life and they're like, well, I'm kind

1350
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 3: of like you Ryan, where my parents weren't my number

1351
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 3: one fan, I didn't have unconditional love, they don't support me,

1352
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 3: and I still find myself trying to impress them all

1353
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 3: the time.

1354
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1355
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's realizing that if you didn't get it, you're

1356
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 2: never going to get it, and to try to try

1357
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 2: to continue to get a thing that you're never going

1358
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 2: to get is a fool's errand right, and you have

1359
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 2: to figure out why you want to do what you

1360
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 2: want to do and what's important to you, right and

1361
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 2: that have you ever done any inner child work?

1362
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1363
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you realize, oh, hey, like my parents weren't what

1364
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 2: I needed to be to this fourteen year old, but

1365
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 2: I need to be what what that fourteen year old needed,

1366
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 2: or I'm going to go through the world as a

1367
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 2: fourteen year old and it's not appropriate for a fourteen

1368
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 2: year old to be in this meeting or in this conversation,

1369
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 2: or to be you know, operating at this life. You know,

1370
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 2: you have to sort of reparent that inner child or

1371
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 2: it's going to pop out a totally inappropriate times and places.

1372
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 2: And I think one of the beautiful things about having

1373
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 2: kids is it does give you a sense of who

1374
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 2: you were right You don't really remember what it's like

1375
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 2: to before, and then you have a four year old

1376
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 2: and you go, oh, this is what I needed as

1377
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: a four year old. And so I can't go back

1378
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: in time and give that to my four year old self,

1379
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 2: but I can do a better job for this four

1380
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 2: year old. We dropped my four year old off at

1381
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: camp yesterday and he really didn't want to go.

1382
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:36,879
Speaker 1: He was really struggling.

1383
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 2: He was really upset, and he was sort of having

1384
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 2: this anxiety attack and he's struggling, was crying, and so ultimately,

1385
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 2: after like thirty minutes, this is dragged on in thirty minutes,

1386
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 2: forty five minutes going and he's getting more and more upset,

1387
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:55,639
Speaker 2: and then without even talking about it, we just decided

1388
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 2: he didn't need to go, and as my wife got

1389
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 2: back in the car and we're driving him back to

1390
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 2: our house and we're going to you know, just have

1391
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 2: a fun day or whatever. All I said was, I

1392
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 2: think we both know that our parents would have handled

1393
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 2: this differently, and you know they would have forced it right.

1394
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 2: And the idea that hey, it's an opportunity to do

1395
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 2: things differently, to stop certain cycles, right, to turn over

1396
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 2: new leaves, to just to just do it a better way,

1397
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 2: and that that that is not only your obligation, but

1398
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 2: it's also healing for yourself to go, oh, this is

1399
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 2: what I needed then, And you can't go back in time,

1400
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:39,879
Speaker 2: but you can write a better future.

1401
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 3: We gave you the intuition in that moment for you

1402
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 3: specifically to know whether to push them to go to

1403
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 3: Campbell where you were like, no, actually, because I remember

1404
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 3: as a kid, I used to get a lot of

1405
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 3: those anxiety attacks as a young kid. And I remember

1406
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:57,840
Speaker 3: even when I was going to high school, I had

1407
01:09:57,840 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 3: to take exams to get into certain high schools on

1408
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 3: my par want me to go to. And I remember

1409
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 3: like just being so stressed at that time with like

1410
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 3: going to these entrance examinations. You don't know anyone there,

1411
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 3: and you're sitting in this hall and you're doing exams

1412
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 3: at eleven years old, ten years old to get into

1413
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 3: this eleven plus school and whatever. And I remember feeling

1414
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 3: that when there were times when my parents were like,

1415
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 3: it's okay, and there were times when I was pushed through.

1416
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 3: And obviously I only personally remembered the ones who I

1417
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 3: was pushed through that worked out. But naturally, there are

1418
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 3: lots of kids in the world who only remember the

1419
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 3: times when their parents should have let them pull out

1420
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 3: and they didn't. So how did you, at least for yourself,

1421
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 3: reconcile that in a moment like that, Because I'm sure

1422
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 3: sometimes you're like, no, pushing through is good, and you

1423
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 3: know you're not.

1424
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:41,640
Speaker 2: They still say one of the most dangerous things we

1425
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 2: can do is extrapolate, right, because it takes us out

1426
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 2: of the moment we're in, and then we're thinking, well,

1427
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 2: what if it happens again, and what if it happens again,

1428
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: and what if it happens again? And then all of

1429
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 2: a sudden, you're living in this future where if you

1430
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:53,719
Speaker 2: let this thing happen over and over and over again,

1431
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 2: your kid is utterly incapable of doing anything for themselves,

1432
01:10:57,360 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 2: and just going, hey, what is one day of camp

1433
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 2: actually matter right, is what is what is actually at

1434
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 2: stake here? And you realize that almost nothing is in

1435
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 2: stake right right? You know, like your kid's throwing a

1436
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 2: temper tantrum, and you go, this is not an appropriate

1437
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 2: way to act. I don't want to raise a kid

1438
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 2: that throws temper tantrums. I don't want to raise a

1439
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 2: kid that you can't have. And you realize that you're

1440
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,559
Speaker 2: not even thinking about your kid anymore. You're thinking about you,

1441
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 2: and what you should be thinking about is oh wait,

1442
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 2: we forgot to have lunch, right, or oh wait they're tired,

1443
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 2: Oh wait they're coming down with something, And you realize, oh,

1444
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 2: this is an individual instance. It is not a reflection

1445
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 2: of their trajectory as a human being. And being able

1446
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 2: to do that to anyone in life is really power.

1447
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 2: It's an incredible gift. To be able to look at

1448
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 2: the moment you're in as not much more than a

1449
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 2: moment that you are in is an incredible thing to

1450
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 2: do for yourself and them. I struggle with that even

1451
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 2: as a writer. Obviously this plant is important, Commitment is important,

1452
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 2: routine is important. But then you have kids and you're

1453
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 2: in this world of unavoidable reality and you have to go,

1454
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 2: I can't do what I wanted to do today. That

1455
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,559
Speaker 2: doesn't mean the wheels are gonna come off and everything

1456
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 2: is going to collapse. You have to be okay, you know,

1457
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 2: and just that sort of acceptance and to go. This

1458
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 2: is a singular instance, no more, no less. I'm just

1459
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 2: gonna do what we need to do. And when I

1460
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:29,479
Speaker 2: think about things that have gone really haywire with our

1461
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 2: kids or in my life, it's because I wasn't in

1462
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 2: that moment. I was in whatever I was extrapolating that

1463
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 2: moment to me, if it happened over and over and

1464
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 2: over again.

1465
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 3: It's a brilliant answer. I love that that resonates so

1466
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 3: stronger than me, because I think we you're so right.

1467
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 3: We just take one moment to be so predictive, yeah,

1468
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 3: of their entire future. Like if I let him quit

1469
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 3: count today, then he's gonna quit this.

1470
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 2: And if I let people talk to me this way,

1471
01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 2: then I'm just gonna be this person that gets pushed around.

1472
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 2: And you're like, this is one poorly written email. It

1473
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 2: doesn't mean anything more than that, and that you can

1474
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 2: just let like let it go now. Obviously, if you're

1475
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 2: doing that all the time, for everything. You can get

1476
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 2: in trouble too, but just going, yeah, this is not

1477
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 2: that big a deal. That's a question I try to

1478
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 2: ask myself all the time. Does this actually matter or

1479
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 2: do I just think that it matters?

1480
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:25,680
Speaker 1: Is what other people think? You know?

1481
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 2: Informing whether I think this matters or not? Do I

1482
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 2: actually care about this? And then that just turns down

1483
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 2: the volume, which is really what you need the most.

1484
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 2: You just need to turn down the volume.

1485
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my favorite one disconnecting from If I ever

1486
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 3: get worked up about something or rout up about something,

1487
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 3: it's because I've let the opinions of others become a

1488
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 3: lens through which I'm seeing the significance of something.

1489
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 2: Well, one of the really screwed up parts about having

1490
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,639
Speaker 2: a kid, and I was just talking to someone who

1491
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 2: has a like a.

1492
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: Six week old. So you get your kid, take.

1493
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:57,640
Speaker 2: Them home from the hospital, and then you have to

1494
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 2: take them to their first pediatrician visit, and then you

1495
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 2: do this a bunch of times in their first year.

1496
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 2: And you take them to the pediatrician and the first

1497
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,719
Speaker 2: thing they do is they weigh them and they measure them.

1498
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,919
Speaker 1: Right, and then they give you these numbers.

1499
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 2: They go your kid is eightieth percentile in height and

1500
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:15,759
Speaker 2: fortieth percentile in weight, and they and their head sizes

1501
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 2: the sixteenth percent time. They The first thing that happens

1502
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 2: when you have a kid is they tell you mathematically

1503
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:25,599
Speaker 2: where your kid measures up against other kids.

1504
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 1: And it's like this the whole way.

1505
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: They should be walking by this age, they should be

1506
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 2: reading by this age, riding a bike by this age,

1507
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 2: and so you have this data, like if you didn't

1508
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 2: know how other people were doing, you wouldn't care. But

1509
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 2: because they told you, then you want to win that game.

1510
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 2: And the game is the size of your kid's head,

1511
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 2: which you have no ability to influence whatsoever. I mean, yeah,

1512
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 2: you want to know, hey, your kid is dangerously you know,

1513
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 2: underweight and maybe malnourished. But it's usually it's like, oh,

1514
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 2: they're eighty seven percent in weight and not ninety four,

1515
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:04,679
Speaker 2: you know, like and all of a sudden, you're thinking

1516
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 2: as a kid, you're thinking back to when you were

1517
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 2: a kid, and you're like, well, I want to get

1518
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:10,640
Speaker 2: an A and so anything above ninety, you know, And

1519
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 2: so it's it starts at the very beginning, this sort

1520
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 2: of comparison game, and the less if you knew less

1521
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 2: you would be much more relaxed and much more kind

1522
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 2: to them and yourself. And it's important to remember that

1523
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 2: you're not raising an average kid. You're raising your kid.

1524
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,839
Speaker 2: You're not raising a kid on a spectrum. You're raising

1525
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,600
Speaker 2: this person that you were getting, you were given that

1526
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 2: has a unique set of DNA and a unique set

1527
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 2: of circumstances that you have some control over.

1528
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: And a lot of things you don't have control over.

1529
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 2: And I think the more you can kind of tune

1530
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 2: out what other people are doing, Like my wife and

1531
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 2: I were like concerned that this kid we know who

1532
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:58,600
Speaker 2: is born like the same day as my son, Like

1533
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 2: he's riding a bike and my son can't ride a bike.

1534
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:04,080
Speaker 2: And we're like, are we screwing up? Are we holding

1535
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 2: them back? Are we bad as parents? And then we

1536
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 2: were talking to them and they were concerned that their

1537
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 2: son couldn't swim and ours can swim like a fish.

1538
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 2: And you just realize, oh, yeah, it's all. It probably

1539
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with anyone. It's just one of

1540
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:21,840
Speaker 2: them is naturally disposed to swimming and the other has

1541
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,599
Speaker 2: some brain that makes biping these And if we didn't

1542
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 2: know that some kids were doing this and some kids

1543
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 2: are doing this, we would just be like, well, they'll

1544
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 2: learn it eventually, right, And so I think, of course

1545
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 2: you do. It is important to benchmark and know generally

1546
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:37,639
Speaker 2: when stuf's supposed to happen.

1547
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 1: But just so much of this information it's only there

1548
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 1: to make you feel inferior or insecure or alarmed, and

1549
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: that's not going to make you a better parent.

1550
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean, I'm so glad you went there because

1551
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 3: I feel like that's the exact thing that's on everyone's mind.

1552
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 3: And I think it applies to everything from having kids,

1553
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 3: to getting married, to being engaged, to moving in to

1554
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,720
Speaker 3: dating to friends, to how much money you should have

1555
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 3: made by what age, Like, it just goes across the board.

1556
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:14,000
Speaker 3: I wonder. I've spoken to a lot of people on

1557
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 3: the podcast about mom guilt to mothers. Dad guilt is

1558
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 3: a thing too. And you know, as someone like you

1559
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 3: who you said you've had a lot of successes before

1560
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 3: you became a dad, but at the same time you're

1561
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 3: an ambitious, driven individual. I'm sure you know other dads

1562
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 3: who became dads before and after they've had success. Let's

1563
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 3: plain in the scenario, which I think is a common scenario,

1564
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 3: someone's trying to put food on the table, They're trying

1565
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 3: to take care of their family. They don't get to

1566
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 3: be there for bedtime every night, they don't get to

1567
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 3: go to the football game on the weekend. Like they

1568
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 3: can't show up at all these places because of genuine reasons.

1569
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:53,560
Speaker 3: How does that person be a present, loving dad or

1570
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:55,720
Speaker 3: what does it look like for that scenario.

1571
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:58,759
Speaker 2: I do find moms are way harder on themselves than dads,

1572
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:02,600
Speaker 2: And part of that is because dads, I think, historically,

1573
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:04,560
Speaker 2: have been judged.

1574
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 1: On a much.

1575
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 2: More generous or sliding scale, right, And so the fact

1576
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:12,719
Speaker 2: that there is some dad guilt is in a sense

1577
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 2: a sign of progress, right that like, oh, hey, this

1578
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 2: is something that I am expected to be good at

1579
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 2: to take seriously, and that if I'm not good at it,

1580
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 2: someone's not just going to handle it for me, right.

1581
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 1: I think the reason moms feel guilty is.

1582
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 2: They they're like there's no safety net, Like I'm the

1583
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 2: final line of defense, right, And so I do feel

1584
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:37,719
Speaker 2: dad guilt sometimes, and I see that as a sign

1585
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 2: that like, I'm I'm caring about it, right because you

1586
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 2: know who, Like it's like it would be wonderful if

1587
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 2: all parents were concerned that they weren't doing a good

1588
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 2: enough job. But the fact is there's a lot of

1589
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 2: parents that aren't thinking about it at all. They're not

1590
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 2: thinking about it because they're so convinced they're perfect and

1591
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 2: they're not, or they just don't.

1592
01:18:58,960 --> 01:18:59,599
Speaker 1: Care that much.

1593
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:02,559
Speaker 2: It's good that, it's good that you're insecure, that you're

1594
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 2: questioning yourself, and then just realize that other than that,

1595
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:10,759
Speaker 2: other than the indicator of prioritization, it's not actually helping

1596
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:14,439
Speaker 2: you be a better parent. Right, whipping yourself Like I joke,

1597
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,479
Speaker 2: like your kids are going to hit you enough, Like

1598
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 2: you don't need to whip yourself on top of it. Right,

1599
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 2: be kind to yourself. And that's a great line from Sending.

1600
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 1: He says, the.

1601
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 2: Sign that philosophy is working in your life is that

1602
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 2: you're becoming a better friend to yourself, and so you

1603
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 2: should be a good friend and parent to yourself. But

1604
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:39,120
Speaker 2: there is this sense, I think with dads that like

1605
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:43,280
Speaker 2: your job is to provide, and you go, I'm doing

1606
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 2: this all for my family. If you never see your family,

1607
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 2: are you really doing it for them, you know? Or

1608
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 2: or are you using your kids as an excuse to

1609
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:56,639
Speaker 2: do this thing that you want to do.

1610
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: Right.

1611
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that providing is an import and that

1612
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 2: you shouldn't try to be successful at work. I just

1613
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:07,080
Speaker 2: I just think, like, hey, the thing you're your kids

1614
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 2: want more than anything, is you right, that's what your

1615
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 2: family wants you. And so if you go, oh, I'm

1616
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 2: doing this for you. Did they want a new mountain

1617
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 2: bike or did they want to see their dad during

1618
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 2: daylight hours?

1619
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 1: Right?

1620
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:26,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, But when they think back to their childhood, they're

1621
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 2: not going to go, oh, I did have a lot

1622
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:32,040
Speaker 2: of cool stuff, right, Like I never saw my parents,

1623
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 2: but I had a lot.

1624
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 1: Of cool stuff. Right.

1625
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 2: It worked out for me. They want you, and so

1626
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 2: how do you find that balance? I mean, when we

1627
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 2: talk about work life balance, what we're talking with. A

1628
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:47,439
Speaker 2: reason that's so hard is we're talking about trade offs

1629
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 2: like that you can't have it all and you're going

1630
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 2: to have to say no to some things. One of

1631
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 2: the things that having kids changed for me is that

1632
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 2: it made it easier for me to say no because

1633
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 2: it illustrated the opportunity costs much more vividly.

1634
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: Right Like, if I.

1635
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:07,599
Speaker 2: Didn't have kids, if it's just me and my wife

1636
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 2: or just me, you know, I could always squeeze more

1637
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 2: stuff in, and I couldn't calculate and necessarily feel what

1638
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:20,639
Speaker 2: it was costing me. But when you've promised your time

1639
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 2: to this little person who wants to wrestle or go

1640
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 2: in the swimming pool or play legos, and then you're

1641
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 2: not able to be home because you agreed to some

1642
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:35,840
Speaker 2: dumb conference call or you let someone pick your brain,

1643
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 2: you feel that more right, You feel that more The

1644
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 2: opportunity costs were always there, you just didn't feel it

1645
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:48,679
Speaker 2: because it wasn't personified in a heartbroken three year old.

1646
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,439
Speaker 1: So it's helpful. It can be really really powerful.

1647
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 2: I have this sign on the wall in my office

1648
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 2: and just as no, and it's between two pictures of

1649
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 2: my kids, and it's a reminder that when I'm saying yes,

1650
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:06,719
Speaker 2: what I'm saying no to is A and B. And

1651
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 2: when I'm saying no, I'm saying yes to A and B.

1652
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 2: And realizing that that your fear of being rude or

1653
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 2: hurting someone's feelings, well you better get comfortable that because

1654
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 2: you're gonna you're gonna you're being rude to someone, You're

1655
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:27,800
Speaker 2: letting somebody down, you're hurting someone's feelings, and should it

1656
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:31,559
Speaker 2: be this stranger or should it be this person that

1657
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 2: you promised you know you were going to be there for,

1658
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 2: or that you said is the most important thing in

1659
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 2: the world to you, Like the calendar doesn't lie. You say,

1660
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:45,320
Speaker 2: families the most important thing to you? But what is

1661
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 2: your calendar show?

1662
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more. I always, I always say, the

1663
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 3: way you spend your money, the way you spend spend

1664
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 3: your time, and the way you spend your energy shows

1665
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 3: your values and priorities far more than what you say

1666
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:00,679
Speaker 3: or think. Yeah, because you're back, Like, what you spend

1667
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:02,799
Speaker 3: money on is showing what you care about. What you

1668
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 3: do to make money shows what you care about. But

1669
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 3: what is your biggest fear or worse quality in you

1670
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 3: that you are so scared of projecting onto your kids?

1671
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:14,639
Speaker 3: Are you aware of that?

1672
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 1: You?

1673
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think you have to be. I

1674
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 2: think I think I've never been glad that I lost

1675
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:25,960
Speaker 2: my temper. It's never made anything better, And so you know,

1676
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 2: kids are frustrating, it's overwhelming. The other the other day,

1677
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 2: my son was in the car and he's sort of

1678
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 2: yelling and he's really upset and sort of look back

1679
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what's happening? And my other son goes,

1680
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 2: you know, I think Jonesy's just really overstimulated right now.

1681
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:47,200
Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, that's like amazing, you know,

1682
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 2: Like I was like I wish I Like, first off,

1683
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 2: I was proud because you obviously picked that up from us,

1684
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 2: But I was like, I wish I could have that

1685
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 2: kind of awareness because all I was thinking about is like,

1686
01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:56,799
Speaker 2: what is this noise?

1687
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 1: Right?

1688
01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,679
Speaker 2: And he's thinking why is that person making that noise?

1689
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 2: And and so yeah, the things that you get upset

1690
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 2: with your kids about when you lose your temper, like

1691
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,880
Speaker 2: it's it's never stuff that you're like that was okay.

1692
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 2: One percent of the time it's like they ran away

1693
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 2: from you in a parking lot and you're so scared

1694
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 2: something could have happened. Uh, and you kind of need

1695
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 2: to get that across. But most of the time, it's

1696
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 2: it's nothing that matters, and yet you are telling them

1697
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 2: that it matters, and you were telling them that they

1698
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 2: don't matter in a way that you would never want, right.

1699
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:34,040
Speaker 2: And so I think I think for me, it's it's

1700
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 2: about temper and and you know, how do you tame that?

1701
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 2: How do you keep it from exploding onto the people

1702
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 2: that you love.

1703
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:43,959
Speaker 1: That's that's the struggle.

1704
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 3: What what have you discovered in that book? Ah, it's hard,

1705
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 3: like you said, it's.

1706
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:52,679
Speaker 1: Hard, It's really hard. It's really hard.

1707
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:54,600
Speaker 2: My wife and I try to get good at going like,

1708
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:57,400
Speaker 2: you're having trouble handling this right now?

1709
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 1: Why don't you step outside? Why don't you go for

1710
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:00,799
Speaker 1: a walk?

1711
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 3: Like?

1712
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: Or why don't you guys let this go? You know

1713
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 1: what I mean?

1714
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 2: Like why does it actually matter that pajamas get on

1715
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 2: by a certain time?

1716
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 3: Like?

1717
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 1: Why are you.

1718
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 2: Forcing this thing? And I think oftentimes the frustration comes

1719
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:19,240
Speaker 2: from when things are being forced, and so stepping back

1720
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,759
Speaker 2: is usually the best way to do it. And then

1721
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 2: I also think, like, look, people lose their temper. It's

1722
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:28,080
Speaker 2: a fact of life. My parents lost their temper at

1723
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:31,480
Speaker 2: me quite a bit. I don't ever remember them apologizing

1724
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:34,920
Speaker 2: for it, right, which is something I try to do

1725
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:38,600
Speaker 2: a lot. I try to go, hey, it's stressful for

1726
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 2: me at the airport. I'm trying to make sure that

1727
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 2: we all get to the place that we need to

1728
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 2: get by a certain time so we can go on

1729
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 2: the vacation that, by the way, you want to go

1730
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 2: to more than me, right, But I was just I

1731
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:54,599
Speaker 2: was stressed earlier, Like I wasn't in control of myself earlier,

1732
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:56,760
Speaker 2: and I'm not proud of that. I don't like that,

1733
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 2: and that wasn't good, but I'm owning it out and

1734
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 2: it didn't say anything about you. Right, And so the

1735
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 2: ability to if you can in the moment go hey,

1736
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 2: I'm overstimulated, I'm stressed, can you do it later? At

1737
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 2: least if you can do it later.

1738
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 1: It's not as good, but it's still an improvement.

1739
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 2: And then can you take responsibility for your emotions as

1740
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 2: opposed to dumping those emotions on someone else and then

1741
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:23,400
Speaker 2: making them filter, you know, sort through them in therapy

1742
01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 2: twenty years later.

1743
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:26,160
Speaker 3: Right, And thank you so much for coming back on

1744
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:29,479
Speaker 3: the show. It's so great. It's so great. I feel

1745
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:31,960
Speaker 3: like what I wanted to do today was talk about

1746
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 3: parenting but also being a kid of parents who didn't

1747
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:40,280
Speaker 3: read the Daily Dad, And what that feels like is

1748
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 3: an experience because you're trying to be a parent without

1749
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 3: having had parenting training. And one thing you said that

1750
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:49,040
Speaker 3: is going to stay with me for a long time

1751
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:52,679
Speaker 3: was if you don't reparent your fourteen year old self,

1752
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:54,960
Speaker 3: you're still a fourteen year old. And I think a

1753
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:57,879
Speaker 3: lot of us can resonate with that statement very deeply.

1754
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 3: That there's an age that we feel we lived our

1755
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:07,680
Speaker 3: toughest worst year and no one took care of that

1756
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 3: yeah child, or that teenager or whatever age it was,

1757
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:13,880
Speaker 3: and that's something we all need to recommit to.

1758
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean one of the struggles of being a parent.

1759
01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:21,679
Speaker 2: You're trying to give stuff that you didn't necessarily get, right,

1760
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 2: and it's even harder for people who didn't have you know,

1761
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 2: a dad or a mom, or you know their dad

1762
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:28,679
Speaker 2: or mom was an alcoholic, or you're trying to give

1763
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 2: things that you didn't get. But that's that's the obligation,

1764
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 2: is to try to do a little bit better, right,

1765
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 2: to try to give them the things that you felt

1766
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 2: that you needed or wanted.

1767
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 1: That's the goal.

1768
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:40,679
Speaker 3: Right.

1769
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 2: But Yeah, you open this you said, you know you're

1770
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 2: trying to heal I do. If you leave those things

1771
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 2: unexplored or unaddressed, you're just passing them along. And that's

1772
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 2: there has to be some point where you go this

1773
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:58,559
Speaker 2: stops with me, right, Like, this is a.

1774
01:27:58,560 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: Beautiful senecal line.

1775
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 2: You talk about how we can't choose our parents, but

1776
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:04,720
Speaker 2: we can choose whose children we would like to be,

1777
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:09,799
Speaker 2: and the idea that biology doesn't have to be destiny,

1778
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 2: that it doesn't have to keep going the direction that

1779
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,640
Speaker 2: it always went, that you can do it differently, that

1780
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 2: you can decide, Hey, no, my parent and heroes are

1781
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:23,640
Speaker 2: these people that I can borrow from these parents that

1782
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:28,160
Speaker 2: had different tools than my parents, that had more patience

1783
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:31,559
Speaker 2: or wisdom or insight or empathy than my parents, And

1784
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 2: that I can give that to my kids.

1785
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:35,479
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful thing.

1786
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:37,640
Speaker 3: The book is called The Daily Dad three hundred and

1787
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 3: sixty six Meditations on Parenting, Love, and Raising Great Kids

1788
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 3: by Ryan Holliday. If you don't already follow Ryan on Instagram,

1789
01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 3: on YouTube, across social media, his podcast. Of course we

1790
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 3: named all the books earlier, Please go and follow him

1791
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:54,719
Speaker 3: across all platforms, ran anything else you want to share

1792
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:56,679
Speaker 3: with the community over here.

1793
01:28:56,920 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 1: Now, thanks for having me.

1794
01:28:58,000 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for coming back, man. We look forward to it.

1795
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:03,760
Speaker 3: Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my

1796
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 3: interview with doctor Gable Matte on understanding your trauma and

1797
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:12,200
Speaker 3: how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from

1798
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:12,719
Speaker 3: the past.

1799
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 1: Everything in nature goes only where it's vulnerable. So a

1800
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 1: tree doesn't go where it's hard and thick. Does it.

1801
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:20,560
Speaker 1: It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.