1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599
Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

2
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,200
Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

3
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

4
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,720
Speaker 2: the future of the show.

5
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,719
Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

6
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,239
Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

7
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,680
Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

8
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

9
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599
Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

10
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,880
Speaker 2: you'll access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, and

11
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,600
Speaker 2: all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

12
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

13
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

14
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,400
Speaker 1: dot com.

15
00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,440
Speaker 3: In a moment, we're going to be joined by Argentine

16
00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,879
Speaker 3: reporter u Hennia Musium from Perfield, a news outlet down

17
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 3: at Argentina, who's broken some significant news on this American

18
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,599
Speaker 3: bailout of Argentina at the expense of American farmers, and

19
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 3: in particular the role of hedge funder Rob sa Trone

20
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 3: in lobbying Treasury Secretary Scott Bess and himself a former

21
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 3: hedge funder, in enacting that bailout. But first we wanted

22
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 3: to check in on our Urgentinian president Javier and Mele

23
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 3: see how he's responding to this bailout.

24
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm right there, we go.

25
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 3: It's great, all right to give a little bit of context.

26
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 3: If you haven't been following our reporting on this, Let's

27
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,800
Speaker 3: roll D three to show that show show the kind

28
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 3: of different reaction that American farmers are having to this bailout.

29
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 5: Well, the stop gap needs to come because they've kind

30
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 5: of painted the farmer in a corner. I mean, I don'

31
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 5: want trade, not a I need a market. I need

32
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,039
Speaker 5: a place to sell this stuff. I can work hard

33
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,480
Speaker 5: enough and make a product if you give me someplace

34
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,120
Speaker 5: to sell it. I don't take care of myself. But

35
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,959
Speaker 5: they've painted us in a corner with this China deal

36
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,920
Speaker 5: and China mind no solowy beans. I mean, they've tore

37
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,560
Speaker 5: a market in half. I mean, if you take you

38
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 5: the four years prior to Trump's first terror form, the

39
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,840
Speaker 5: average price of a bushel of slowy beans is twelve

40
00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,920
Speaker 5: dollars and fifty four cents. The average price for the

41
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 5: four years dearing Trump's first terrafor is nine dollars and

42
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 5: thirty nine cents. That's one hundred and sixty three dollars

43
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,119
Speaker 5: an acre swing to the minus the next four years

44
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 5: after the tariffor the average price is thirteen dollars and

45
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 5: fifty nine cents. That's a two hundred and eighteen dollars

46
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 5: up swim. Now we're back to ten dollars and twenty

47
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,400
Speaker 5: one cents. I think the board is today. My local

48
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 5: elevators nine dollars and seventy nine cents. So I'm at

49
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,960
Speaker 5: one hundred and seventy two dollars an acre loss. I mean,

50
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 5: you can't the farmer can't continue to produce a crop

51
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,799
Speaker 5: below the cost of production. And that's where we're at,

52
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,959
Speaker 5: and we don't have anywhere to sell it. We're in

53
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,799
Speaker 5: a taraford with China, We're in a terraffor with everybody else.

54
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,480
Speaker 5: I mean, where do they want me to market this stuff?

55
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:42,200
Speaker 4: All right?

56
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 3: Joining us now is Johanne Muzio, reporter from Argentina who's

57
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:47,760
Speaker 3: been doing a lot of work in this case. And

58
00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,040
Speaker 3: so for people not following along, So the Trump administration

59
00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,960
Speaker 3: started at second trade war with China. China responded by

60
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 3: telling the United States, but we're not buying any of

61
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 3: your soybeans. Most of the soybeans that the United States

62
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,960
Speaker 3: grows go to China. That's a huge problem for American farmers.

63
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 3: The two main competitors to the United States are when

64
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 3: it comes to soybeans are Brazil and Argentina. Brazil selling

65
00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,680
Speaker 3: enormous amounts of soybeans over to China. Argentina is struggling

66
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,800
Speaker 3: economically big time. All of a sudden, they get a

67
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,400
Speaker 3: lifeline from Treasury Secretary Scott Besson in the form of

68
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:26,920
Speaker 3: twenty billion dollar bail out. Immediately, the Argentina and government

69
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 3: cuts its export taxes and then they sell enormous amounts

70
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 3: of soybeans to China at a much discounted price, infuriating

71
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,840
Speaker 3: American farmers. But it turns out, according to reporting down

72
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 3: in Argentina, that was that American hedge funds played a

73
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,800
Speaker 3: significant role in this. So you, Henny, can you tell

74
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 3: us a little bit about Rob Satrone and the role

75
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 3: more generally of hedge funds in helping to bring about

76
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,480
Speaker 3: this kind of catastrophic situation for everybody.

77
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 6: Well, hello to everyone. Yes, that that policy that Minister

78
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 6: Ris Kaputo taken on. I think it was like a

79
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 6: desperate policy because Argentina was passing through like a week

80
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 6: with a lot of financial expectations because we have elections

81
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:23,480
Speaker 6: going on October twenty six, and in Argentina, elections are

82
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 6: always like they move along a lot of things, and

83
00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:33,120
Speaker 6: in economy most of so I think it was a

84
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 6: desperate policy from Minister Kauto because he needed liquidity in

85
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:44,159
Speaker 6: the market. Because the pressure for the dollar, our exchange rate,

86
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 6: it's very very strong. So in Argentina, when the dollar

87
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 6: comes up, then our prices comes up, and the inflation,

88
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 6: it's like the inflation, it's a thing here. So yes,

89
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,480
Speaker 6: Rosie Tron I know he is, he known with Kabuto.

90
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:12,360
Speaker 6: He he knows also Scott Besant he buys bones from

91
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 6: Argandina before all this and all of this stuff that

92
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 6: is going on, it seems like is it I don't know.

93
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 6: It may be a financial advantage from some hedgephones. So

94
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 6: here in Argentina we are expecting the bailouts. We are

95
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 6: expecting news because our minister with Kabuto is now there

96
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 6: in Washington, he's been there for six days. That it's

97
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,719
Speaker 6: a lot for a country. It isn't in a financial crisis,

98
00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 6: our crisis. We have an economic crisis, like very soon

99
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:55,280
Speaker 6: economic crisis. But now we are passing through like financial

100
00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 6: crisis because we have a debt a little sorry, a

101
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 6: big debt in January we hold out, so it's like

102
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 6: four billion dollars and Argentine extraine for reserves are very

103
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,560
Speaker 6: very low, even in negative rates. I would say if

104
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:23,240
Speaker 6: there's not for ims also dollars. So I think it

105
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:28,800
Speaker 6: was a desperate movement from Aventina and then and the

106
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:34,840
Speaker 6: the people that are around Kaputo and also Scott Beson

107
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:36,719
Speaker 6: took advantage of it.

108
00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,720
Speaker 7: So let's watch a little bit of rob strone. This

109
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 7: is going to be D two and we'll get your reaction.

110
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 8: Well, I think there's special times every five or ten

111
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,159
Speaker 8: years where there's a really spectacular trade and investment that

112
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,119
Speaker 8: we then will concentrate in a meaningful way. Twenty thirteen

113
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,040
Speaker 8: a dollar a yen, we made over a billion dollars

114
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,039
Speaker 8: long dollar yen. And in fact, you know, we discussed

115
00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,880
Speaker 8: the quite a bit with George and I kind of

116
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,039
Speaker 8: vince George and Scott Besson at the time to go

117
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,040
Speaker 8: big in that. And you know, Scott says I'm responsible

118
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:05,880
Speaker 8: for seventy five percent of his bones at sorrows kind

119
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 8: of jokingly.

120
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:07,719
Speaker 4: Over that time.

121
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 7: It was on the Goldman Sachs podcast, Actually did you

122
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 7: want to happen?

123
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, just just in case people aren't following along there

124
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,960
Speaker 3: and you can pick up on this. So Setrona is

125
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:21,720
Speaker 3: saying that Scott Besson for the George Soros Fund, he

126
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 3: and he and Bessent collectively went in together and pulled

127
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 3: off a trade on the end, the same type of

128
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 3: currency play that he's doing with Argentina where he made

129
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 3: a billion dollars like in a day, which we can

130
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,040
Speaker 3: get into the way that that kind of currency trading,

131
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,120
Speaker 3: you know, extracts wealth off the backs of irregular people.

132
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,240
Speaker 3: So he and his friend Bessent, they are on record

133
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,600
Speaker 3: as having done this kind of currency play before, and

134
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,040
Speaker 3: so now he is back in Argentina making the same

135
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 3: currency play, but now his friend is the Treasury secretary

136
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 3: and bails him out of a bad trade. Like what

137
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 3: have you found? What have you discovered about this? And

138
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,640
Speaker 3: how are people in Argentina reacting to this? Because in

139
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 3: some ways this bailout probably while it helps to Trono,

140
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 3: also helps Argentina to stave off a bit of a

141
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,440
Speaker 3: financial crisis. So maybe so this kind of this level

142
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 3: of corruption is like they're like, okay, well fine, help

143
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,800
Speaker 3: us out. Here, So, yeah, what's been the response and

144
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:27,720
Speaker 3: when what have you found?

145
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:33,080
Speaker 6: Well, I think people didn't respond to this rop Citron

146
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 6: currency trade because I think they are like more occupy

147
00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:44,199
Speaker 6: in their own economic crisis here. The economic crisis is

148
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,040
Speaker 6: is a thing I think. I mean, salary is a.

149
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 9: Very low jobs.

150
00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,679
Speaker 6: We have like a high level of unemplopment. So I

151
00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 6: don't think like the regular people did have like an

152
00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 6: impact of this. Yes, the markets, the markets are talking

153
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,560
Speaker 6: about this, but this is not new for Argandina. We

154
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:13,800
Speaker 6: have a lot of corruption crisis. Maybe maybe you heard

155
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 6: about effect the the candidate of Pansa, which is the

156
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:26,319
Speaker 6: party of the government that had that that had to

157
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 6: that had links with with Narco traffic, So maybe that

158
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:37,079
Speaker 6: that's the thing that is going on here and what's

159
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,920
Speaker 6: on news, but not rock Citron. And it's a peculiar

160
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,440
Speaker 6: because we are talking about a parency crisis, a financial crisis,

161
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 6: an economic crisis, and a friend of the Secretary of

162
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,800
Speaker 6: the Tertiary Secretary of the United States, the one that

163
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:59,560
Speaker 6: it's going to give the bailouts to to Argndina, had

164
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 6: a friend that already run a currently situate twice with

165
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:12,680
Speaker 6: Japan and may Okay know so, but has no impact

166
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,520
Speaker 6: in my grant people I was I was saying markets

167
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:22,719
Speaker 6: are going to or maybe already thinking about it, but not.

168
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,080
Speaker 9: A big movement.

169
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 7: Well, in your last question for me is could you

170
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,199
Speaker 7: tell us more about the political situation facing Melee right now?

171
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 7: You mentioned the desperation in Argentina. Why is there that

172
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,480
Speaker 7: sense of desperation, What sort of political situation does mean

173
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 7: I find himself in right now? And why would it

174
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,720
Speaker 7: be important for the United States continue supporting who they

175
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,640
Speaker 7: see as an ally and sort of an ally that

176
00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,400
Speaker 7: finds himself maybe in some political trouble in the case

177
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 7: of Melee.

178
00:10:55,160 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 6: Okay, yes, Well, in Argentina eccentuates. It's very important. As

179
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:08,600
Speaker 6: I said, our extense rate determines inflation, and in April

180
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:14,640
Speaker 6: we have IMF twenty billion also, and that twenty billion

181
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 6: was used to maintain our extensi rate low because low

182
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,600
Speaker 6: exchange in Argentina it means we have no inflation or

183
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,200
Speaker 6: it's like a fact, a very important fact for inflation.

184
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:36,600
Speaker 6: So there was interventions in markets I mean a central bank,

185
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:43,840
Speaker 6: I mean Argentine treasury, and then we are in They

186
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 6: didn't do monetary policy to keep our vessels, our currency up.

187
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 6: So now we are here in this situation that the

188
00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:01,440
Speaker 6: pressure in the markets are extremely high because we are

189
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 6: we are going to an election in October twenty six

190
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 6: and the day passed, and when when you get closely

191
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,320
Speaker 6: to the to the elections, the pressure is also high.

192
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 3: So on that point, when when Scott bessen't bailed out

193
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,320
Speaker 3: Argentina or announced that he was going to do it,

194
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,880
Speaker 3: he specifically said he wanted to do it in order

195
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,679
Speaker 3: to help me lay in the upcoming elections, which he

196
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:35,319
Speaker 3: said would then bring in more foreign capital into Argentina.

197
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 3: How does how do Argentinians feel about the US just

198
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 3: saying out loud that we're trying to, you know, buy

199
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,000
Speaker 3: me lay the upcoming election.

200
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,080
Speaker 6: Yes, the thing that is going on right now is

201
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,680
Speaker 6: that we don't have news about how it's going to

202
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 6: to help United States to Argentina. We know that it's

203
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 6: a sub negotiation of twenty billion, but that's it. I mean,

204
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:09,200
Speaker 6: there's no details, there's no period of time that we

205
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,360
Speaker 6: are going to receive the money. It's not a money,

206
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,560
Speaker 6: it's it's a credit line.

207
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,119
Speaker 9: It's a swap between central banks.

208
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:25,400
Speaker 6: But now the thing is that we are expecting news

209
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,840
Speaker 6: like details and the details are not coming, so that

210
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 6: the nerviews, the market time nervous, and they passed, and

211
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,400
Speaker 6: Minister Kabuto is still it's still in Washington.

212
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 9: So we are expecting the news.

213
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:50,080
Speaker 6: And if there's no news in between the next days,

214
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:51,640
Speaker 6: there will be bad news.

215
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:52,680
Speaker 4: Yes. Interesting.

216
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,440
Speaker 7: Well, HENNYA, thank you so much for coming on and

217
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 7: breaking this down. People can check out your reporting over

218
00:13:58,280 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 7: Perphil But thank you.

219
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you.

220
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:02,000
Speaker 7: It was a pleasure.

221
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,720
Speaker 3: So a new report in the Israeli outlet how Retz,

222
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,760
Speaker 3: which is based on research done by Citizen Lab we

223
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,760
Speaker 3: can put up E two here finds an incredible astro

224
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 3: turfed network of basically bots operating on social media with

225
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,520
Speaker 3: what appeared to be two primary goals. The first is

226
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 3: convincing the world that the Iranian people desperately crave the

227
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,680
Speaker 3: return of the Shah, and in particular in the form

228
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,400
Speaker 3: of Rezapalavi, who appears to have actually basically no constituency

229
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,760
Speaker 3: anywhere either outside of Iran or in it, but the

230
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,600
Speaker 3: Israeli bought accounts, genuinely producing some sense among policymakers that

231
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 3: he might actually be a thing. And then, separately and relatedly,

232
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 3: they played an active role during the Twelve Day War

233
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,920
Speaker 3: in creating basically fake news inside of Iran that was

234
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:03,120
Speaker 3: then picked up by Western outlets as actually having occurred,

235
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,480
Speaker 3: being the real behavior of actual Iranians inside during the war.

236
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,480
Speaker 4: So to talk about that is Nagar.

237
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,720
Speaker 3: Mortazabi, who is a who was a policy analyst with

238
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 3: the what's it called Center for International Policy?

239
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,880
Speaker 4: Is that right? Yes, the old old school kind of.

240
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 3: Institutions, skeptical of American intervention abroad. Thank you so much

241
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 3: for joining us, really appreciate it. So so walk us through,

242
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 3: walk us through some of this report and we have.

243
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,920
Speaker 3: Oh and before we get to that, it's I think

244
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 3: it's important to set the context here that we might

245
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 3: be looking at war like any day now. Nenyah who

246
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 3: sat down with Ben Shapiro just this week and effectively,

247
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 3: you know, if anybody was concerned, if anybody thought that, meyb,

248
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 3: we're gonna get a break from you know, Israeli statement

249
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,760
Speaker 3: rattling towards Iran, they were, they were disappointed.

250
00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,560
Speaker 4: So let's roll a little bit of Ben Shapiro and.

251
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 10: People probably don't believe it right that no, we're far away, right, No,

252
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 10: you're not. Iran is developing now ballistic missiles that are

253
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 10: intercontinental ballistic missiles for eight thousand kilometer range, what does

254
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 10: that mean? They add another three thousand kilometers and they've

255
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 10: got under their gun, under their atomic guns in New

256
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 10: York City, in Target, Washington, Boston, Miami, Mari Lago. Okay,

257
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 10: so that is a very great danger. You don't want

258
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 10: to be under the nuclear gun of these people who

259
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 10: are not necessarily rational and you chant death to America.

260
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,040
Speaker 4: All right, So nigger, what can you tell us about this?

261
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 3: What our rets and citizen lab uncovered here when it

262
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 3: comes to this AstroTurf Operation sull Ran.

263
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 11: Just to give some background, what we saw is Benjamin

264
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 11: Aataniaho basically trying to manufacture con said for a US

265
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 11: war on Iran, which is something he's been trying to

266
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 11: do for over tie years. Very publicly, he's talked about

267
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,760
Speaker 11: it in US Congress. Behind the scenes, he's been trying

268
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 11: to push a sort of boots.

269
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,480
Speaker 12: On the ground regime change type war that the US

270
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 12: did in Iraq, also in Iran. The problem is the

271
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 12: American public is not supportive of another regime change, big war, endless.

272
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 9: War in the Middle East.

273
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 11: And also one big question people Americans and others ask

274
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,160
Speaker 11: is what if the regime falls, what's next?

275
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 9: What's the day after?

276
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,640
Speaker 12: I think Israeli to have found in razapah Levi sort

277
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,440
Speaker 12: of the product or that answer for the day after

278
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 12: this is the person for the day after this is

279
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,160
Speaker 12: the seemingly democratic western dressing. You know, a well suited

280
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,639
Speaker 12: and well spoken person with good English that you want

281
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 12: to be ruling I wrong. The problem is the Iranians

282
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,000
Speaker 12: don't really think that, and so that brings us to

283
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,399
Speaker 12: sort of these disinformation AstroTurf ai generated fake campaigns. This

284
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 12: is actually something that's been going on for years since

285
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,360
Speaker 12: the first and many of us around watchers have been

286
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,680
Speaker 12: observing these massive, massive operations online. The problem is it's

287
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 12: very hard to get evidence to actually connect them to

288
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 12: the Israeli government because they cover up the tracks really well.

289
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 12: So this is one of the few, and it's not

290
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 12: the first one, but this is one of the few

291
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 12: investigative reports that actually shows the evidence connects. I believe

292
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 12: Haretz has insiders who have leadd some of this information

293
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,640
Speaker 12: to them their investigative word and Citizen Lab has really

294
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,440
Speaker 12: dug deep and looked at some of these accounts that

295
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 12: we're posting content.

296
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 11: And I think one thing that maybe tipped off Citizen Lab.

297
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,880
Speaker 9: And really made this disturbing is that these accounts were

298
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:46,920
Speaker 9: posting content that was prepared seemingly with a knowledge that.

299
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,640
Speaker 11: The Israelis are going what the Israeli army is going

300
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 11: to do in Iran, specifically the bombing of the Eving

301
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 11: prison in Tehran, so videos that had been produced fake

302
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 11: videos of the bombing of the prison were put at

303
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 11: very quickly after the actual prison was bombed, and the

304
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 11: citizen lap of conclusion is that this couldn't have been

305
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 11: done by an entity who didn't have knowledge, So this

306
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 11: is probably an entity, a contractor whoever is paid by

307
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 11: the government, who also had very intimate knowledge and relationship

308
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 11: with the IDEF and their operations, which makes us so

309
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 11: much more disturbing because so many prisoners and also civilians

310
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 11: died in that prisoner bombing of the prison.

311
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 7: And when Ryan first drew my attention to the story,

312
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 7: my reaction was I always assumed this was an American

313
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,439
Speaker 7: neo coon op. I mean, it's very clear that there

314
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 7: are interests who have backed Paula V for a long time,

315
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,439
Speaker 7: but this day after point that you're making is really important.

316
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 7: So walk is a bit through the evidence that ties this.

317
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm sure there are American neocons who support

318
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 7: this campaign, but walkers through the evidence in the way

319
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,520
Speaker 7: that it goes directly to the Israeli government, as was

320
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 7: documented in the report.

321
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 11: Absolutely so, just to actually your point, yes, there has

322
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 11: also been a neo con sort of push, including online

323
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,160
Speaker 11: campaigns that.

324
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 9: Have been promoting kala Vi four years especially.

325
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 11: We saw the optic with the first during the first

326
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 11: Trump term was sort of the more pro war neo

327
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 11: con camp was trying to push for attacks for Warren

328
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 11: I Ran and at the same time promoting this person

329
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 11: as a viable sort of alternative to the regime. Well,

330
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 11: the evidence the heart supporting is mostly looking at how

331
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 11: these fake accounts and boughts controls are promoting rezap lev

332
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 11: and sort of showing a fake support a popular support

333
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 11: for him through online and they also connected to something

334
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 11: important he says in one of his trips to Israel.

335
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 11: This is also important to know. Rezapalavi has been making official,

336
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 11: seemingly state visits to Israel since two thousand, since about

337
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 11: two years ago, and in one of those trips people

338
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 11: ask him if he's really a viable, alternative or popular

339
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 11: in Iran, and he says, don't just believe what I said,

340
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,239
Speaker 11: go and check social media. So these very popular accounts.

341
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 9: That happened, yes, that have it.

342
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,360
Speaker 11: It's a it's a real connection. And so it's his account.

343
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 11: It's also his wife's account. We've seen in the past

344
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 11: few years that have really really been promoted, propped up

345
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 11: with advertisement, with sort of campaigns, and in one instance,

346
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 11: I believe his wife posted a video during the war,

347
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 11: a video of a graffiti on a wall in Tehran

348
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 11: that said in English that Israel continue bombing. Were with you,

349
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 11: as in the voice of the Iranian people with a

350
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 11: graffiti in English on a wall in Tehran, And.

351
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 9: So that's the hardest reporting.

352
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 11: Also seems to have insider sources, unnamed sources who have

353
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 11: verified this. I think the disturbance is also the fact

354
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 11: that they see Israeli tax money being spent not just

355
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 11: propping up this person sort of a foreign influence, foreign

356
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 11: influenced operation, but also the minister, the former intelligence minister

357
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 11: and now Science Minister Gila Gamlil, who has been promoting

358
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 11: Rezaval and has been really seems to be the point

359
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 11: person inside the Israeli government uh to be pushing him,

360
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 11: and these accounts not only promotedtality but then turn around

361
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 11: and also promoted her online, which seems to have disturbed

362
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 11: some people inside the government, basically saying, Okay, that's a

363
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,719
Speaker 11: red line. You can use taxpayer money to sort of

364
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 11: manufacture fake support for yourself online. And the Citizen Law

365
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 11: Report has specifically looked at that incident of the bombing

366
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 11: of Ebbing Prison, where basically the online disinformation is very

367
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 11: much tied to not just offline violence, but an actual

368
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 11: war and bombing by an army, and they seem to

369
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 11: be two arms of the same entity or very much connected.

370
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 3: And let's let's run through some of that, because it's

371
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 3: really fascinating. We can put up E four I think

372
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 3: this is a vo. This is this is what people

373
00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 3: eventually figured out was an a I created. So this

374
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 3: is a This was posted within moments of the attack

375
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 3: on Evan prison, and the translation here as kids, did

376
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 3: you hear the sound of the explosion from Evan Prison?

377
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 4: And a whole bunch of accounts.

378
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 3: That are in this now known bot network we're posting

379
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 3: the same things, well did you hear that sound over

380
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: from the prison?

381
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 4: Uh?

382
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 3: And and BBC even ran a piece or somebody ran

383
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 3: a piece and it started circulating based on this video

384
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: of this explosion until people realized it was it was

385
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 3: a I. I think it was a BBC persian maybe that

386
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 3: figured out it was a I. If you can put

387
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 3: up E five, this is you know, very very similar.

388
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 3: Another one, Oh wow, what allowed explosion sound? I just

389
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: heard from the direction of the prison? You know, did

390
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 3: you did you hear it too?

391
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 4: Kids? Did you hear the sound of the explosion from

392
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 4: Evan prison?

393
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 11: In other attention to the hashtakes also the second Evan

394
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 11: must be Free. This is sort of a push to

395
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 11: get actual people physically rushing to Evan present a prison

396
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 11: and getting it free.

397
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 9: And it was combined with sort.

398
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 11: Of a fake messages that Evan is now free, the

399
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 11: doors are open and around it is safe for people

400
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 11: to go and rush. Of course nobody did, but this

401
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 11: was the aim of the campaign.

402
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,479
Speaker 4: Yes, and there is and maybe we can add these

403
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 4: in post.

404
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 3: But there's some others that say they're very actively trying

405
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 3: to get people to go to the prison. They say,

406
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 3: I think the attack will end now, there is no

407
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 3: danger for the prisoner's families, kids, get ready, They just said,

408
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 3: there's no danger anymore. We can go see our loved ones. Kids,

409
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 3: hurry up, our loved ones have been free. These are

410
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 3: all different accounts. We can go see them and free them.

411
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 3: So they're telling the public, Okay, the bombing is over. Now,

412
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 3: let's all rush to this prison to try to break

413
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 3: people out. And Citizen Lab to its credit, and also

414
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 3: everybody watching this just came to the same conclusion. I'm like,

415
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 3: wait a minute, how do these support normal Iranians in

416
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: their apartments know that the bombing.

417
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 4: Is over at the prison? Who are they?

418
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 3: Who are they in touch with that told them that

419
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 3: the bombing is now over. So I think the running

420
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: people had enough you know, common sense to not be

421
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 3: you know, tricked by these accounts, which don't seem like

422
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 3: they got a whole lot of traction kind of internally,

423
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: and so they did not rush to the prison and

424
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: try to you know, free everybody. But the danger here

425
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: is it's it's probably and I'm curious for your take

426
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: on this. My says it's less about they didn't really

427
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: think they were going to do that.

428
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 4: I think it's worth a shot trying.

429
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 3: If this sparks some sort of protest inside Iron but

430
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: what they're really trying to do is trick Western journalists

431
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,239
Speaker 3: and policy analysts into believing that that's the case, and

432
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: then produce that artificial narrative that then they hope somehow

433
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 3: can then devolve into reality on the on the ground.

434
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 4: What's what's your sense of what the mission here was?

435
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 9: Absolutely?

436
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 11: Let me give you another example, Ryan, They bombed the

437
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 11: State TV.

438
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 7: As also.

439
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, and also hacked.

440
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 11: The State TV and put out similar messages on State

441
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 11: TV basically saying, don't you remember how bad your regime is,

442
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 11: how repressive, don't you remember the protest?

443
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 9: Time to rise up.

444
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 11: I think one parallel goal which wasn't achieved by the

445
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 11: Israeli campaigns of bombing was that people will rise up

446
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 11: as they have before and they will overthrow the regime.

447
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 9: And I think that's something.

448
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 11: They probably private they have been selling and that this

449
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 11: would be the last sort of the regime is on

450
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 11: its last leg and they just need the final kick

451
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 11: to fall. And that also helped, you know, bringing the US,

452
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 11: this bigger power into a war. If you show them

453
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 11: that you own their.

454
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 12: Runian skyes, you own Iran all land, you can bomb

455
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 12: them all you want, and the people are about to

456
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 12: rise up and take over this regime. That's also been

457
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 12: the rhetoric of sort of the radical opposition, that we.

458
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 11: Will overthrow this regime. We just need a little bit

459
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 11: of help from the outsiders. That's also been the writer

460
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 11: of Rezapala. We just need a little bit of support.

461
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 11: South Africa wouldn't win without foreign support, Mandela wouldn't win

462
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 11: without international support, and.

463
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 9: So there needs to be a little bit of international support.

464
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 11: But Iranians will rise themselves.

465
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 9: And we saw that the exact opposite. The Israeli bombings

466
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 9: first of all, created a.

467
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 11: Rally around the flag in Iran, and also not one

468
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 11: person came to protests. And this is a government and

469
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 11: everything that's not very popular. We see protests after protests,

470
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 11: but when.

471
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 9: Your homes, when your schools, when your roads are being

472
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 9: bombed by a foreign entity, that's really not the time

473
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 9: to go on a streat and protests. And that's exactly

474
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 9: what we saw by Iranians.

475
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 11: And one other thing that bombing also showed people is

476
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 11: whoever wasn't clear eyed about whether Israel can have very

477
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 11: targeted surgical attacks only on regime officials, I think now

478
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 11: understand that there is no such thing and that you're

479
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 11: going to have over a thousand casualties, most of them civilians.

480
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 11: Even the military casualties, a lot of them were young

481
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 11: conscripts who were just serving a mandatory military service.

482
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 7: It's like Guatemala in the nineteen fifties, broadcasting stuff over

483
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 7: the speakers, the revolutions happening.

484
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 4: The revolutions happening.

485
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, just hoping to convince people that it's true.

486
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: Ye, fall a little flat though.

487
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, this is such helpful information. Thank you for

488
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 7: joining us, Thank you for having me.

489
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 4: See you next time.

490
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 7: The ugly fight over what Charlie Kirk said or did

491
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 7: not say in the days, weeks, and months leading up

492
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 7: to his assassination is raging on. Candice Owens released more

493
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 7: information from what she says are three sources who confirmed

494
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 7: something important to her. Let's go ahead and roll the clip.

495
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 13: Three people told me off record. Two people who have

496
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 13: this in a written communication from Charlie. One who is

497
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 13: a turning point USA donor, and I would say very

498
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 13: much one of the white nights in this. The very

499
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 13: day before Charlie Kirk died, he expressed that he thought

500
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 13: he was going to be killed. He told these people,

501
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 13: I think they're going to kill me. Okay, he did

502
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 13: not express that to me. So I am telling you

503
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 13: this based off the testimony of free people. And I

504
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 13: am saying this because I hope that these people who

505
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 13: I think are good will be inspired to come forward

506
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 13: with that. And again, those conversations I had were off record.

507
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 13: I honor that if I say it's off record, it's

508
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 13: days off record. But I'm hoping that watching what I

509
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 13: am doing and feeling the energy that is rising across

510
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 13: the world for people who want to know what the

511
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 13: heck happened on nine to ten, that you know, they

512
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 13: will be brave and they will say, yeah, Charlie did

513
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 13: the day before he died think that he was going

514
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 13: to be killed, and maybe tell us who is they? Well,

515
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 13: for one cent for all, who is they? Who is

516
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 13: the day that he thought were going to kill him?

517
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 7: Well on the question of who that they is? And

518
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 7: Ryan and I will break down a little bit what

519
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 7: off the record should mean as well. But the they

520
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 7: Info Wars reporter Harrison Smith posted, I'm not going to

521
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 7: name names, but I was told by someone close to

522
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 7: Charlie Kirk that Charlie thinks Israel will kill him if

523
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 7: he turns against them. That was over the summer.

524
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 4: I think it was actually even better before he was killed.

525
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was. It was before Charlie Kirk was killed,

526
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 7: which probably wouldn't normally bring that up because again, even

527
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 7: with Candace in this case, there's no clear sourcing. It's

528
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 7: not as though, you know, even in like new independent media,

529
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 7: we do more I would say, vetting of claims than that.

530
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 7: But when you start to see more and more people

531
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 7: saying stuff like this, it starts to sound like it

532
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 7: actually really was the scuttle but in the circles around

533
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 7: Charlie Kirk Ryan.

534
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 3: Which helps explain kind of some of the reaction in

535
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: real time. Now, just let I just want to be

536
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: totally clear here. Let's say that it's true that Charlie

537
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 3: Kirk did think that. That does not lead logically then

538
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: to the fact to the claim that they did it right,

539
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 3: right like that those are kind of disconnected things, but

540
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 3: it's important for understanding his legacy and the moment that

541
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: we're in.

542
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 7: What was happening behind the scenes. Yeah, right, And I

543
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 7: just this is E eight. So this is one of

544
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 7: Charlie's close friends, Andrew Corvett, who's been continuing to hold

545
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 7: out the fort over at the Charlie Kirk Show and

546
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 7: talking a lot about trying to debunk some rumors and

547
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 7: confirm other claims. He went through these text messages that

548
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 7: Candace Owens released that showed Charlie Kirk basically doing, I've

549
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 7: had it up to here with these conservative Zionists argument.

550
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 7: He didn't say it that way, but you can see

551
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 7: pretty clearly from the text that Candas released, which people

552
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 7: were immediately saying, there's no way these are real. There's

553
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 7: no way these are real, showing Kirk's exasperation, utter exasperation

554
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 7: with being told what he can and cannot say about Israel.

555
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 7: These are within forty eight hours of him being assassinated.

556
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 7: Let's roll e eight.

557
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 14: To address some of the things that have been going

558
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 14: around on public, namely about a text a group text

559
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 14: chain that has been made known and released by Candace OANs.

560
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 14: And I just want to dress it head on because

561
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 14: you know that was a text grab, a screen grab

562
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 14: that I had shared with people, so it is authentic.

563
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 13: Take a look, so Charlie writes in this scroup chat,

564
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 13: just lost another huge Jewish donor two million a year

565
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 13: because we won't cancel Tucker I'm thinking of inviting Candace.

566
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 13: Somebody writes, oh, Charlie writes, Jewish donors play into all

567
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 13: of the stereotypes. I cannot and will not be bullied

568
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 13: like this, leaving me no choice but to leave the

569
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 13: pro Israel cause. And somebody writes, donor rights, please do

570
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 13: not invite Candace. That might feel good short term, but

571
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 13: it's not good long term in my opinion. Like all groups,

572
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 13: you're going to get a wide variety of opinions. That

573
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 13: nasty free will thing that God bestowed on us makes

574
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 13: life frustrating at times. After the dust subtles a bit, maybe,

575
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 13: So again, this is forty eight hours before Charlie was sassaity.

576
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 13: He was very clear and he's very explicit.

577
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 7: So the Canvas Park came first, and then Colvett confirmed,

578
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 7: as you saw on that clip, those were indeed real

579
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 7: text messages. He said that's a screenshot actually that he

580
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 7: had shared.

581
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 4: And so these twenty four hours killed.

582
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,479
Speaker 7: Within forty eight Yeah, So clearly these things are pinging

583
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 7: around because there were a lot of conversations in group chats,

584
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 7: and it's so ugly to even have to talk about

585
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 7: this because Charlie Kirk is not here. To explain. I mean,

586
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 7: in group chats there's sarcasm. It's all virtual. It's sarcasm,

587
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 7: you say different things. It's easy to imagine how things

588
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 7: can get taken out of context. I would say that's

589
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 7: a pretty clear statement from Charlie Kirk, but he's obviously

590
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 7: not here to explain. He did have that long interview

591
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 7: with Megan Kelly where he put a lot of this

592
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 7: in his own words. You don't even need to be

593
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 7: taking things from group chats necessarily to know that he

594
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 7: was deeply, deeply exasperated and that it seems that donor

595
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 7: references to Robert Shulman, who the reporting from Ex Bluementhal

596
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 7: has been confirmed about him publicly revoking that money from

597
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 7: Turning Point USA, falling out with Charlie, who considered him

598
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 7: they considered one to try one another, to be very close,

599
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 7: almost a mentor mentee relationship. So this was getting this

600
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 7: was clearly getting.

601
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 3: Very nasty, and it shows the dynamic that we've seen

602
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 3: over and over where he says he says, quote, just

603
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 3: lost another huge Jewish donor two million dollars year. That's

604
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 3: Shilman two million dollars a year because we won't cancel Tucker,

605
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of inviting Candace. That's the dynamic that we

606
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: see so often. Megan Kelly is betraying a little bittle

607
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 3: bit lately, where it's like if you and She'll say

608
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 3: this out lout, if you try to tell me what

609
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: I can and can't do, I'm going to go the

610
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 3: opposite direction. Right, you don't want me to have Tucker?

611
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, how about Candace too? Yeah, just just to

612
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 3: like draw boundaries, be like, no, this is this is

613
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 3: my conference, this is my organization. I'm going to make

614
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 3: the decisions. And also I'm going to make the decisions.

615
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 3: And this is what he was saying to net Yahoo

616
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: and others. I'm going to make the decisions that I

617
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 3: actually think are better for Israel, Like he thought it

618
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: was better for Israel. Yeah, to have this aired out

619
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 3: in public, to sharpen your counterpoints against the narratives that exist,

620
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: rather than try to suppress them and pretend they don't exist.

621
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 7: And that is what he said he tried to explain

622
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 7: to Nata Yahoo in the letter. He said, this is

623
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 7: the suppression is like absolutely, the appearance of speech depression,

624
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 7: the existence of speech depression.

625
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 3: Is bad for you, right, right, You're not going to

626
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,959
Speaker 3: win this way, right, it was his argument, and so yeah,

627
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 3: it has been fascinating to see this be the debate

628
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 3: rather than what I thought right afterwards when they found

629
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: out that the alleged shooters partner it's a trans person, like, oh, well,

630
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 3: we're going to get a month or six weeks, months

631
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 3: months of like you know, transhate, and instead this has

632
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 3: been more of the conversation.

633
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 7: It's so ugly. I mean, it's just it's the amount

634
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 7: of I mean, if you think about the amount of

635
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 7: digital evidence of your thought process that you leave now

636
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty five, if you're somebody who works in

637
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 7: politics and you're working this stuff out in you know,

638
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 7: he was clearly trying to keep everybody happy. I think

639
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 7: that's the big takeaway is that he was trying to

640
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 7: tell supports of Israel he was still on their side

641
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 7: and give them tough love. But then he was also

642
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 7: expressing privately how incredibly exasperated he was by all of this.

643
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 7: He did it publicly too, again on the Megan Kelly interviews.

644
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 3: So just right, and you can imagine a guy who

645
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 3: made his entire career starting from when he's like eighteen

646
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: about debate and all of these. He has one hundred

647
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 3: and fifty million dollar organization that people are funding based

648
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 3: on his career as somebody who wants to air different sides.

649
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 4: It'd be one thing if he ran.

650
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 3: A pack and he invited Tucker Carlson to the conference,

651
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 3: then I think, if you're an APAC downer, you're like, no,

652
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: absolutely not, Like he does not tow our line, and

653
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: that's fine.

654
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 4: You're an advocacy organization for a pack, like no, Tucker Carlson.

655
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 4: Totally fair, but.

656
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 3: Turning, it's this, it's it's built on the idea of debate,

657
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 3: and so the idea that you're that you can't have

658
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 3: this debate, which is tearing the conservative movement apart, is

659
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: just anathma to his very being. And then, as he

660
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 3: explained on Megan Kelly, to then layer on top of

661
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 3: that a personal insult that you actually are anti Semitic.

662
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 4: Was clearly driving him nuts.

663
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 7: All the time he has spent advocating for Israel. It's

664
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 7: just the fact that people are still right now treating

665
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 7: his feelings like they were in some way illegitimate or

666
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 7: flirting with anti Semitism is it's so so disgusting, and

667
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 7: it's just ugly again that his or digital footprint is

668
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 7: being torn apart like this. It was. I mean, he

669
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 7: put this stuff pretty clearly in public at the time too.

670
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 7: But Sad said said, we.

671
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 3: Have a new report over at drop Side News that

672
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: finds that David from, Douglas Murray, Seth Mandel, and pamla

673
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 3: Gross who is a CNN producer, all in various ways

674
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 3: we're working directly with the Israeli Ambassador to the United

675
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: Nations while also engaging journalistically with that same ambassador from

676
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: in particular while serving as an editor at the Atlantic

677
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: and a writer at Atlantic, where he still is. Send

678
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 3: an email two days apart to Ron Proser, who's the

679
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: Israeli ambassador one, asking him and we can put this

680
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 3: element up on the screen here, can I interview you

681
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: for short profile in The Atlantic about what it's like

682
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 3: to be Israeli Ambassador at UN That is a perfectly

683
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 3: normal email for a journalist to send to a subject

684
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 3: or a source.

685
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 4: I'd like to write a profile.

686
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 3: For you for The Atlantic, the journalistic news outlet, where

687
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: I write, would you be willing to participate in this interview?

688
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 4: Wonderful stuff.

689
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 3: Less usual is a separate email that he sent we

690
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 3: can put this one up on the screen.

691
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 4: This is I can't even believe it.

692
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 3: This is from saying that say that he and Seth

693
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 3: Mandel a lot going on here. You might want to

694
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 3: pause and read this you want, but that he and

695
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: Seth Mandel, who writes for Commentary, have been working on

696
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: the draft for a speech for the Israeli ambassador. This,

697
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: he says, this version was drafted by Seth Mandel of Commentary,

698
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 3: with whom I've been working. The top half is identical

699
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 3: to what you read previously. The bottom half is much

700
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 3: less pointed about US policy. Is this more in line

701
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 3: with your thinking? That's July thirty, first, twenty fourteen. This

702
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 3: is right after the twenty fourteen Gaza War. And so

703
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: then he includes a couple different versions.

704
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 4: Of the speech.

705
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: Later, Proser responds, and we can put this next element

706
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: up there.

707
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 4: Thank you, David.

708
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: I will look at it and get back to you.

709
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 3: So this was the target audience. Here's un Security Council.

710
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 3: You can look and see whether or not you think

711
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 3: from speech writing along with Mandel's up to snuff from

712
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: as you may or may not know, it was a

713
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 3: speech writer for George W. Bush before becoming the kind

714
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 3: of anti Trump resistance guy. He famously or infamously depending

715
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 3: on your perspective. Well, there's not many who take the

716
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 3: former anymore. Came up with the phrase access of evil.

717
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 4: That's what he was known for.

718
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 3: Access of evil, which somehow included Iran, Iraq, and North Korea,

719
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 3: who had none of which had anything to do with

720
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 3: each other.

721
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 7: To our last segment, to the point of manufacturing consent

722
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 7: for the Iraq war.

723
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 3: Right, and then the Iraq War brought in a Shia majority,

724
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 3: that is that linked up the country with Iran. But whatever,

725
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: So that's him.

726
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 4: We've got.

727
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 3: Also got mister Doug Murray, Douglas Murray, he writes to

728
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 3: Ron Proser as well, roughly like actually the same day

729
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 3: they're competing to write this speech.

730
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 4: Very good to speak earlier.

731
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 3: I am passing in here my first draft ideas. It's

732
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 3: probably slightly long, and it's possible I have put in

733
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: some more diplomatic things than needed, but I think I

734
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: have got in all the points discussed to be worked on.

735
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 4: Doubtless. Can we do this in a British accident?

736
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 3: We should, right, But let me know what your thoughts

737
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 3: are and I will give all the time I can

738
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 3: and to helping to get it right.

739
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 4: All very best wishes as ever.

740
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 3: Douglas ron Proser's speech draft.

741
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 7: I don't think I've ever heard you do a British accent.

742
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think I could actually do. I'm

743
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: you could do a very good one.

744
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 3: So Murray, it gets worse, like you're like, Okay, this

745
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: is pretty bad journalists who are at the one hand

746
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 3: covering Israel Palestine.

747
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 4: It's a giant war that just happened.

748
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 3: At the same time, they're secretly writing drafts of speeches

749
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 3: for the Israelian past.

750
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 4: But that's pretty bad.

751
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 7: And were they taking money for it? Do we know?

752
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 3: I highly doubt it volunteer, I would. I would suspect

753
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 3: that this is volunteer work. We could we could find out,

754
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 3: But like from doesn't need the money.

755
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 4: I don't know about Murray.

756
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 3: This feels more like work of conscience. Yes, uh so,

757
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 3: this is from the drop Side article. At the time,

758
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 3: Murray was also providing other services in support of Israel

759
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 3: and its military efforts. In November of that year, he

760
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 3: wrote to Proser to inform him that he had hosted

761
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 3: an event that raised over one million pounds for an

762
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 3: organization called the Association for the well Being of Israeli Soldiers.

763
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: That organization have been created to provide funds quote directly

764
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 3: to IDF soldiers and IDF units created in nineteen forty

765
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 3: two before the creation by David Ben Gurion. In twenty fifteen,

766
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 3: AWIS merge with another organization now called the Association for

767
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: Israel's Soldiers.

768
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 4: And so Douglas Murray wrote to him.

769
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 3: About how happy he was about how well the fundraiser

770
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 3: had gone, how much money that they had been able

771
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 3: to raise for the Israeli military. Now Murray has been

772
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 3: has never made a secret of his support for Israel,

773
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 3: but I don't think he's ever mentioned that he that

774
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 3: is up to and including writing speeches and raising money

775
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 3: for the military. We can get into Pamla Gross in

776
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 3: a moment and Seth Mandel, but what was your what

777
00:43:58,840 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 3: was your reaction.

778
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 4: As you as you were reading through some of this stuff,

779
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 4: And do we have the have you been we have

780
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 4: that sid? Have you been to the crossing points now

781
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,479
Speaker 4: when we lost that at all? I've never been. You've

782
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 4: never been. Well, am I not allowed to talk about

783
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 4: it now?

784
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 7: You've never been. You know, these are people who are

785
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 7: critical of a lot of media ethics when it comes

786
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 7: to coverage of Israel. And that's what I think is

787
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 7: particularly frustrating to me. It's this is a fairly easy

788
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 7: thing to disclose, and actually if you were oh would be.

789
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,919
Speaker 7: But if you're honest about it in the profile, well

790
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 7: in the profile, there's another question. But people know that

791
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 7: you're he.

792
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 4: Wrote that profile.

793
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 3: That wasn't just an idea like he wrote and published

794
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: a glowing profile.

795
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 7: I have it up on my browser right now. I've

796
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 7: checked way back machine and the archive. There's absolutely no

797
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 7: disclosure in it, not even now. So to do that

798
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 7: if you're David Frum and not disclosed that you helped

799
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 7: with the speech is completely bananas. And for both of them,

800
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 7: they are openly massive supporters of Israel. That's like to

801
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 7: go further as somebody who's in the media and actually

802
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 7: work on a draft of a government speech and not

803
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 7: disclose it and then ever lecture anybody else about journalistic

804
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 7: ethics and coverage of Israel is I just think that

805
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 7: is tough to That's is that none of this is surprising.

806
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 7: It's just a tough pill to swallow. And I would

807
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 7: imagine The Atlantic, though it's edited by former IDF soldier

808
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 7: right now, Jeffrey Goldberg.

809
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 4: Prison guard prison so right?

810
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 3: Who we called Goldberg left of voicemail like the text

811
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 3: message today, did not get back.

812
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 7: From nobody gave you a comment on us.

813
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 3: From referred questions to Atlantic's PR department, which has not

814
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 3: gotten back to us. Adam Johnson pointed out on Twitter

815
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 3: that the same day, no, or maybe it's a week later.

816
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 4: Oh, no, it's the same day.

817
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 3: A week before this, From had accused The New York

818
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 3: Times of putting a fake photo of bloodied Palestinians on

819
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 3: their news coverage of the Gods of War. A week later,

820
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 3: the same day that he was writing the Israeli ambassador

821
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 3: a draft of sending him the draft of the speech,

822
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 3: he apologized. These images do appear authentic, he said, and

823
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 3: I should not have cast doubt on them. I apologize

824
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 3: especially to surrogate Panamerav of the New York Times, whose

825
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 3: work I impugned. So he apologized to the photographer, not

826
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 3: to these bloodied subjects of the photograph, who's suffering. He

827
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 3: called it a doubt still from this is the New

828
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 3: York Times. Still From defending his initial skepticism, arguing that

829
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 3: quote there was a long history in the Middle East

830
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: of the use of faked or misattributed photographs as tools

831
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: of propaganda, using that old line of isn't it interesting

832
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 3: that I got fooled by this? Do you want to

833
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: do the Pamela gross ones too, or do you want

834
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 3: anything else you want to add to that before we

835
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 3: go to Dell and Mandel is a hard course poor

836
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, again, finding Mandel in the browser's

837
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 3: emails was not very surprising.

838
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 7: I don't think and he of this particularly like shocking,

839
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 7: but it is, I guess surprising, just from the perspective

840
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 7: that again, like as an opinion journalist, their opinion journalists,

841
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 7: they don't pretend to be like sor Sheila, the reporters

842
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 7: who are just although sometimes I think the rhetoric goes

843
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 7: in that direction. Because Murray famously was lecturing Dave Smith

844
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 7: for not going to Israel, which was a question of ethics.

845
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 7: He was saying, as somebody who talks about this kind

846
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 7: of implying that Smith was acting in the capacity of

847
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 7: a journalist or a media person, then you should you

848
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 7: should go to the place that you're talking about. So

849
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 7: as opinion journalist, I feel like it's really and I

850
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 7: don't know if you've dealt with this before, but it's

851
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 7: like a really it's easy to be like, well, I'm

852
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 7: open about what I think about this, so oh of

853
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 7: course I can take this money and do this thing.

854
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 7: But i'd like I learned from Tim Carney when I

855
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 7: was young. He has like a full disclosure on medium

856
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 7: every year of places that he takes money from. I

857
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,479
Speaker 7: do the same thing. If it's like a conservative group,

858
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 7: then you give a speech for helping the government. That's

859
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 7: one thing, and most people don't even just close that,

860
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 7: even though I think they should. But that's one thing,

861
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 7: helping the fucking government of another coman.

862
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 3: Which government's well you're covering Holy shit, Yeah, you can't

863
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: do that.

864
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 7: That is like even that even by the standards of

865
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 7: like where journalism and opinion journalism, that is surprising.

866
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 3: Yes, And everybody has seen the Douglas Murray clip in

867
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 3: his debate with Dave Smith on Joe Rogan where he

868
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 3: says you haven't been talking about the crossings. This puts

869
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: that whole thing in a whole new light because Douglas

870
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 3: Murray then says, I have a journalistic rule that I

871
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 3: do not talk about a place even in passing unless

872
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 3: I have visited it.

873
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 4: That's his journalistic rule.

874
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 3: A much more basic journalistic rule is that you avoid

875
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 3: conflicts of interest and that if some exist, you disclose them.

876
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 3: So when Murray's talking about having been to these crossings

877
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 3: he went with the IDF, he put on a jacket

878
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 3: that said press yes, which suggests that you are then

879
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 3: baked in the ethics of that of that craft, which

880
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 3: means that you are you are objective and independent. If

881
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 3: the IDF wants to send an IDF spokesperson to the crossing,

882
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 3: they can do that. He also had himself photographed in

883
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 3: the chair where Ya Sinwar was killed wearing his press jacket.

884
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 3: He did not disclose that he had raised money for

885
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 3: the IDF and that he had written speeches. And that's

886
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 3: what just what we know about, which is activists.

887
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 7: And by the way, like raising money for the IDEF

888
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 7: is you're an activist on behalf of the cause and

889
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 7: then helping the guy. I mean that actually, even if

890
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 7: it's volunteer, it makes you sort of an agent of

891
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 7: the government.

892
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 3: Right, So I would say, you don't actually get to

893
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 3: claim that you journalistically followed a journalistic rule, that that's

894
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 3: not journalism. That is a thing that you're doing. It

895
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 3: is collaboration with the Israeli government. Like if you are

896
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 3: drafting speeches for the ambassador, raising money for them, and

897
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: then getting, you know, taken on escorted trips to the crossings,

898
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 3: you don't get to then denounce somebody else who hasn't

899
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 3: done the same thing, Like he was trying to say

900
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 3: that he is a superior journalist and his opinions should

901
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 3: be taken more seriously because he had been to this crossing.

902
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 3: But now we know the full context of what brought

903
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: him to that crossing, secretly doing work for the government

904
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 3: and then going escorted by the government. Just because you

905
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: put on a flat jacket that says press doesn't make

906
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 3: you press. So yes, he was a physical there. Yes,

907
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 3: should we credit anything that he says? No, Right, we

908
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: can put up F six. So Pamela Gross is an

909
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: interesting character and she's no longer with CNN, but she

910
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 3: was a CNN booker, producer. And also, let's do our

911
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: disclosure here, married to Jimmy Finkelstein, who used to be

912
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 3: the owner of The Hill and the Hill owned Rising

913
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 3: while Emily and I were co hosts on Rising, So

914
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 3: Jimmy was we weren't. We weren't getting paychecks because we

915
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 3: were independent contractors, but he was signing our checks.

916
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 7: He was trying to hire us too.

917
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 3: Trying to hire us, and then he stole the thing

918
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 3: before that even happened, one way or the other. And

919
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 3: so Pamela gross so she was so the ambassador is

920
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 3: so wonderful to see you this fourth of July. Thank

921
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 3: you for joining us. Clearly Iron Dome is doing doing

922
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 3: the reck and saving lives. Please, dear friend, let's get

923
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 3: it finished. So she then enters into this long conversation

924
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 3: and we can put up F seven as well with

925
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 3: with Ron Proser about how she's going to raise money

926
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 3: for the Iron Dome. He writes, Dear Pamela, thank you

927
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 3: and Jimmy for a magical evening.

928
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 4: You both are the perfect hosts.

929
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 3: You and Jimmy are true assets to the State of Israel.

930
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 4: Which.

931
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 3: If you're a journalist, whether you're Israeli journalist or American

932
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: in Israeli journalists would not want to hear that from

933
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 3: an Israeli ambassador. You do not want to be told

934
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: as a journalist that you are a quote, true asset

935
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 3: to the State of Israel. You really don't that's not

936
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 3: what you want to hear. No, no, no, I'm an objective

937
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 3: journalist here, so it's okay. So maybe she's just Jimmy

938
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 3: Finkelstein's wife and like said, some fake job CNN. No,

939
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 3: not at all in the emails. Go read the full

940
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 3: story if you want all of Pamela's like crazy emails

941
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 3: back and forth with Ron Proser here. But f ten,

942
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 3: this is an email where she is reaching out to

943
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 3: book him, which is.

944
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 4: Her job on CNN. Makes it easier actually to discuss, right.

945
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, hey, I'm raising money for your military.

946
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 3: Come on the show, Come on the show. It's just

947
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 3: it's too much. And it's one of these stories to

948
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 3: me that manages to both be utterly shocking and deeply

949
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 3: unsurprising at the exact same time. Like it really is

950
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 3: in the sweet spot of hitting both of those emotions,

951
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 3: like I'm still I'm shocked at this and yet utterly unsurprised.

952
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's shocked and not shock again simultaneously.

953
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 3: Yea, I mean again, maybe in post we'll put a

954
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 3: little have you been clip?

955
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 4: You've never been?

956
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 7: This is like, this is the one of the biggest

957
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 7: problems in journalism right now, Like you are free. It's

958
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 7: most journalists cannot truly shelve their opinions. I know, like

959
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 7: a few who genuinely can do it. Maybe they don't

960
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 7: have maybe they're just like politically ambivalent. They definitely don't

961
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 7: care one direction or the other. It's just so few

962
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 7: people that can actually do that, and yet most journalists

963
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 7: still pretend that that's what they're doing. And even if

964
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 7: you're in the opinion side, like from and Murray, fine,

965
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 7: but actually acting or gross who I guess she wasn't

966
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 7: on the opinion side. She was just doing booking for CNN.

967
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 7: But you know that's just it's just so obviously over

968
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 7: the line, so obviously over the line. And the audacity

969
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 7: then to criticize other people's journalistic ethics tells you kind

970
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 7: of tells you a lot.

971
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, true, truly incredible. That's why I like this show.

972
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 3: Like we've got our opinions. I think my opinions are facts,

973
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 3: but I think they're correct.

974
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 4: But you know what, my you know where I am,

975
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 4: but I'm not. I'm not writing speeches for anybody. No. Also,

976
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:14,479
Speaker 4: where do these guys get the time?

977
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 7: Seriously?

978
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 3: Like my first restment, No, I don't have time to

979
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 3: write your speech, you writes me, don't you have a

980
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 3: whole office?

981
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 7: Why we're from and Maury both drafting the same speech.

982
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 7: I don't understand that. Were they having them compete against

983
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,720
Speaker 7: each other or was he just seeking everyone's advice.

984
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

985
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 3: So one thing that politicians do, and they do this

986
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 3: a lot with donors, but they'll do it too with

987
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 3: journalists is pretended that they're interested in their ideas, like

988
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 3: what do you think, uh, you know, the effect of

989
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 3: the economy is going to be on the midterms, And

990
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 3: then and then the journalist or the donor or whoever

991
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 3: they're talking to feels like valued, like the thing that

992
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 3: they're saying. They're Wow, I'm speaking to this power person, right,

993
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 3: and so it changes the power dynamic. So you can

994
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 3: imagine this is just on steroids.

995
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, where.

996
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 3: Prothers like you guys are just such brilliant wordsmiths. Could

997
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: you draft some speeches for me? But that's when it

998
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 3: really crosses the line. And then they both should have

999
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 3: been like, well, no, of course I can't do that

1000
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 3: unless I'm I'm happy to have a dinner with you

1001
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 3: and we can talk about how awful Moss is and

1002
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 3: how the world is all against Israel. Yeah, but we're not.

1003
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 3: But I'm not gonna.

1004
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 4: Draft a speech for you.

1005
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 3: Like that's that's crossing lines that even I'm not willing

1006
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 3: to do well.

1007
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 7: At the very least. I mean, so again, like you

1008
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 7: shouldn't do a period. If you're going to do it,

1009
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 7: you should then tell your audience and your readers that

1010
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 7: you did it.

1011
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then let people say, Okay, you know what,

1012
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 3: this guy wrote speeches for the ambassador that he's now profiling.

1013
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 3: But I know that he's supportive of Israel, and so

1014
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 3: I already knew that anyway, So I'm going to read

1015
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 3: the profile anyway. Yeah, then you've got the full knowledge

1016
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 3: of it. Would have been even funnier if he was

1017
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 3: like the main thing people say about prosers. His rhetorical

1018
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 3: flare and his speech making ability is unparalleled, almost reminiscent

1019
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 3: of some of George W.

1020
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 4: Bush's best speeches.

1021
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 7: Positively Fromian.

1022
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 4: People call him from Ian.

1023
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 7: How many people are saying, Oh goodness, all right, Ryan,

1024
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 7: amazing amazing reporting there. Now we should mention before we

1025
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 7: wrap for the day that Donald Trump has since we

1026
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 7: started taping, actually put out a truth social post calling

1027
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 7: for Brandon Johnson and Governor J. B. Pritsker to Democrats

1028
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 7: obviously in Illinois to quote be in jail for failing

1029
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 7: to protect ICE officers as a guy on a barstool.

1030
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 7: So that's one thing. As the president of the United States,

1031
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 7: that is a very different thing that he this is

1032
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 7: the man with the powers of law enforcement, saying that

1033
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 7: Brandon Johnson and JB. Pritzker should be in jail for

1034
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 7: quote failing to protect ice.

1035
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 3: So also, can we poke at the logic train there

1036
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 3: for a minute. According to Trump, Chicago police are incapable

1037
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 3: of protecting the citizens of Chicago, which necessitates sending in

1038
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 3: the National Guard, all these federal office federal agents. So

1039
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 3: now Trump wants them to protect the citizens of Chicago.

1040
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 3: And also all these helpless federal agents that he's throwing

1041
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 3: into Chicago. Isn't the whole purpose of sending in this

1042
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 3: the Feds that they're gonna protect the Chicago police, who

1043
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,479
Speaker 3: he said, are just you can't handle it. Also, Ice

1044
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 3: is out here has been out here like making a

1045
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 3: bunch of basically prank calls to nine one one.

1046
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 4: Have you seen this reporting?

1047
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 3: No, not yet that they keep calling nine to one

1048
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 3: one saying somebody's scaling this fence. Somebody's doing this net

1049
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 3: and and then they look at bodycam footage and the

1050
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 3: same with the woman that they arrested and accused of

1051
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 3: ramming them. Turn out it was the other way around.

1052
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 4: Like Ice keeps making stuff up up and so I.

1053
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,479
Speaker 3: Think at some level the Chicago police are like fed

1054
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 3: up with these with these clowns.

1055
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 7: Also, we're owning the politics of this. Donald Trump is

1056
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 7: transforming JB. Pritzker, of all people, into a resistance hero.

1057
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 7: The more he talks about it like this, The more

1058
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 7: that he more that he talks about the situation like this,

1059
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 7: he's giving JB. Pritzker. Maybe he's actually trying to do

1060
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 7: it because he understands that JB. Pritzker is a poor

1061
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,919
Speaker 7: resistance hero for Dems. I don't think it's that forty chess.

1062
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 7: I think he's just a saying things like Jbie Pritscrier

1063
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 7: should be in jail. I don't I can't fathom what

1064
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 7: the even like, what the charge that they cook up

1065
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 7: would look like in this case, failing to protect Ice

1066
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 7: as governor and as mayor. I don't even know what

1067
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 7: that would potentially be. I can't think of it. Maybe

1068
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 7: we'll ask rock. But yeah, well that's the thing.

1069
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 3: I'll block you if you do that. It's the warning

1070
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 3: that everybody following me if you.

1071
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 7: If you ask dumb questions to groc, ask.

1072
00:59:55,480 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 3: Stupid questions to groc underneath my posts, you're blocked.

1073
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 7: You're blocked. You're blocked. Well, that that happened while we

1074
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 7: were taping. Trump called for them to be imprisoned. So

1075
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 7: I'm sure Sager and Crystal will have more on the

1076
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 7: story tomorrow, but we wanted to make sure to bring

1077
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 7: everyone that news as soon as we could, because boy,

1078
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 7: is it wild. Thank you so much for tuning in.

1079
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 7: Thank you for supporting us over at Breakingpoints dot com. Also,

1080
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 7: if you can't get a premium sub for liking, commenting,

1081
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 7: subscribing on YouTube, wherever you're getting your podcast, it helps

1082
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 7: us so much. We appreciate it. Makes the second half

1083
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 7: of the Friday show. By the way, if you're a

1084
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 7: premium sub possible, we're having a lot of fun.

1085
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 3: We'll probably talk about Janet Mills on Friday. She's apparently

1086
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 3: getting into the main election. If she won, if she

1087
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 3: beat Susan Collins, she'd be a seventy nine year old

1088
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 3: freshman senator.

1089
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,439
Speaker 7: Good Lord, good Lord.

1090
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 4: Democrats maybe finally crack the code.

1091
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 7: Maybe we'll cover Katie Porter on Friday two.

1092
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 3: Sat too young when they were getting sworn in with

1093
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 3: the democratic and experienced.

1094
01:00:54,600 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 7: Yes, we'll see everyone on Friday. Have a great day.