1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,519 Speaker 1: Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 2: When I told my friends that I would be recording 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: a podcast with Rick Rubin this weekend, the responses were rapturous, 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 2: what wow, incredible? And can I come? It was the 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: same in the River Cafe the other day when Rick 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: was there. Grown men trembled, women found excuses to hover 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: near his table. Chefs could barely grill the sea bass. 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: Rick Rubin is a decades long creative force with a 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 2: voice and influence that carries immeasurable weight. Co founder of 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: def Jam, winner of seven Grammys. As a friend in 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 2: music told me, Rick is unique together with discovering, mentoring, 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: creating beautiful music with artists such as Adele Eminin, Beastie Boys, 14 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: Public Enemy, Run DMC and for me most movingly Johnny Cash. 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: His values, princess and kindness guide everyone he comes close to. 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: Rick is in London with his family for his brilliant 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 2: radical book, The Creative Act. We are at home sitting 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 2: around a table. A cook with a passion for music 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: and a music producer, writer and philosopher with a passion 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: for food. Though in his achievements he is up there 21 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: in the clouds, and I am firmly on earthed. We 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: look at our work in a similar way. Keep it simple, 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 2: keep it honest, admire, respect, and love the people you 24 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 2: work with. That is exactly what I feel about Rick. 25 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 3: It's so beautiful. 26 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: Well, it's true. We just recently became friends, and it's 27 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: so nice to be here together to talk about what 28 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: we love. And so I think what we usually do 29 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: is to ask you the gas to read a recipe 30 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: from any one of our cookbooks, and there are quite 31 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: a lot of them, and quite a lot of recipes 32 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: span in the years. And you chose a dish that 33 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 2: I love, which is also very easy, called chicken with nutmeg. 34 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: Would you like to read the recipe. 35 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 3: Chicken with nutmeg? Preheat the oven to one hundred and 36 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 3: ninety degrees. Wipe the chicken clean, Trim off all excess fat, 37 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: cut lemon in half, grate the nutmeg. Rub the chicken 38 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 3: with the lemon, squeezing the juice into the skin. Season 39 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 3: the skin and inside the cavity with salt, pepper and nutmeg. 40 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 3: Cut the prescudo slices into the cavity. Put the chicken 41 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 3: on an oven tray, breastside down, Drizzle with olive oil, 42 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 3: and roast for one and a half hours, basting from 43 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 3: time to time. Add wine after half an hour, turn 44 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: the bird breastside up for the last twenty minutes. Serve 45 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 3: the juices from the pan. 46 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: So why, of all the recipes did you choose this? 47 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 2: Is there something that you particularly liked? Do you eat 48 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: a lot of chicken? 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,119 Speaker 3: The reason I picked the chicken dishes. It's particularly simple dish, 50 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: and in general, the foods that I like tend to 51 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 3: be the best version of a very simple thing. If 52 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 3: the sauce is too complicated, if the chef is trying 53 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 3: to impress me, I tend not to like it. What 54 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 3: gets me is the quality of the produce, the quality 55 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: of the food, the quality of the meat, and the 56 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: perfection of the preparation. Not necessarily the innovation involved. It's 57 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 3: more the craft of the best version of the regular thing. 58 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 3: It's my favorite. 59 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: I always worry when somebody says I have an idea 60 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: for you know, cooking chicken or fish or meat or vegetable, 61 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: because for me, it's not suddenly you have an idea 62 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: to do something. It's the last time you made chicken. 63 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: It might have been with tucking the pishutto under the skin, 64 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: and then the next time we had make Do you 65 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: feel that way? 66 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: Yes, it's an iterative process. We try different things and 67 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 3: then something like hmm, that was good last time. Maybe 68 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 3: we'll try it that way again, and then add something 69 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 3: else and eventually get to a point where this is 70 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 3: the way I'm going to do it now and it 71 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: feels good. 72 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: Are you talking about music, cooking, everything? 73 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 3: No, I'm talking about everything everything. Yes, that's what the 74 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 3: book's about. Really is how we do anything, is how 75 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 3: we do everything, and it all is of a piece. 76 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 3: All the choices we make are essentially are the way 77 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: we live. Our life is an artistic choice. 78 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: The cooking and the ingredient and the music, I suppose, 79 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: is also knowing that if you're going to cook things, 80 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: simply the ingredient has to be superb. 81 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 3: Same. It's true in music that the individual if you're 82 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 3: doing work that has many, many instruments, in a way, 83 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 3: they almost the sound of them cancel each other out. Yes, 84 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 3: they do make something new when they add up. That said, 85 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 3: I like the personality of each of the individual ingredients music. 86 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 3: If you have three ingredients, it's easier to understand them. 87 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: It's also harder to get them right because there's only three. 88 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: They're not being it's not being masked, it's not being hidden. 89 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 3: I remember a producer friend saying to me, you know, 90 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: I don't know how you have the patience to make 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 3: the records you make with so few things going on, 92 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 3: because he'll put down one thing and then put something 93 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 3: on top, and put something on top, put something on top, 94 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 3: and he makes a great sounding, you know, very successful producer. 95 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: But it's a different process, and mine is, Okay, let's 96 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 3: take everything away and what's left. Are each of these 97 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 3: elements the most interesting version of themselves they can be, 98 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 3: and are we presenting them in the best light that 99 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 3: we that we can. That's that's how I like to 100 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 3: do it. 101 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: For me, it was a revelation to go to Italy 102 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 2: because I grew up in upstate New York, where everything 103 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 2: considered Italian food was very rich. You had mozzarella, you 104 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: had parmesan, you had breadcrumbs, You bake it, you boiled it, 105 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: you did a whole process. But then if you go 106 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 2: to Italy and they put a piece of fish on 107 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: the grill with a few fresh herbs and a drizzle 108 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: of olive oil, and you know that the fish has 109 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: to be really fresh, the olive oil has to be 110 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: really recently pressed and very strong, and the herbs have 111 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 2: to be of the season because you can't basket, as 112 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 2: you say, So maybe there are real parallels, do you think? 113 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 3: I think so. I think it's all related. And I 114 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: remember the first time I went to Florence and I 115 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 3: remember asking and what's the best fish restaurant? And they're like, 116 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: we don't have fish. It's like, what do you mean. 117 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: It's a city and by the way, like an hour 118 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 2: and a half from the sea. 119 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: Well that's what they said. They said, if you want fish, 120 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 3: the fissure is an hour and a half away. So 121 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 3: that's how fresh it is. An hour and a half 122 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 3: is too far to travel with the ingredient for it 123 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: to be fresh in Italy. So Italy is my favorite 124 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: place to eat, and I spend as much time there 125 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 3: possible and eat quite a lot delicious. 126 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 2: I agree. So how was it actually growing up when 127 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 2: you grew up in Long Island? I grew up in 128 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: Long Island. 129 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: Yes, Long Beach was about an hour outside of Manhattan, 130 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 3: small beach community, not so unlike Malibu, where I've lived 131 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 3: for a long time. 132 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: Was it a multicultural undo? Yeah, it was. 133 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: The different parts of town were mixed in different ways. 134 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: And it was tiny, little town, but there were these 135 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: little subcultures. And we lived on the bay and we 136 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: had a boat, and you could walk six blocks and 137 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 3: be on the ocean side and you know, swim in 138 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: the waves. It was a mixed community. In My high 139 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 3: school was a multiracial high school. 140 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: And what was it like growing up there? What was it? 141 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: The food was not great and my mom was not 142 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: a good cook. We ate out pretty much for every meal. 143 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: We almost never ate home, almost never. 144 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: What year would that be, Brick. 145 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 3: I left home maybe in nineteen eighty one to go 146 00:07:59,400 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 3: to college. 147 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: About the center of these yeah, yeah, I. 148 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,119 Speaker 3: Ate the worst food, you know, I ate fast food 149 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: on a regular basis. I would say it's pretty limited. 150 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: There were a couple of Chinese restaurants. There was a 151 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: couple of Italian restaurants, delicatessen, pastrami, sandwich type places, but 152 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: all of the restaurants were more like mom and pop restaurants, 153 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 3: tending to be heavier in the way they prepared the food, 154 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: you know, like the Italian food would all be covered 155 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 3: in bread crumbs and deep fried and lots of mozzarella 156 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 3: and lots of sauces. 157 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: Do you think you had a healthy relationship with food 158 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 2: or you know, you say your mother was overweight. 159 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 3: Yes, we ate lots of food and good tasting, low quality, 160 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 3: high carbohydrate, high calorie food. Also lots of you know, 161 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 3: seed oils and just terrible stuff. It was always an 162 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 3: argument because I didn't like to sit for a long 163 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 3: time in a restaurant. I still don't like to sit 164 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: for a long time in a restaurant. I like to 165 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 3: eat and go, and my parents would like to eat, sit, smoke, 166 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: and drink. And as a little kid, and I'm an 167 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: only child, so I had no one else to play with, 168 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 3: I did not want to be there. I didn't want 169 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 3: to be. 170 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: There, especially when you see them lifting up the coffee 171 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: cup and then they don't put it to their mouth 172 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: and they put it down in the saucer. That's what 173 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: used to kill me as a kid, Yeah, is that 174 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: I'd sort of think we're just about to go, and 175 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 2: then they'd sort of get it up and put it down, 176 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: and they said, no, drink that coffee. I want to 177 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 2: go home. So I feel really interested in women who 178 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: don't cook, mothers who didn't cook, you know, and I 179 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: feel so respectful towards them as well. Was your mother 180 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: did she work? 181 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 3: She did not. She raised me. That was her full 182 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 3: time job, and food was not an important part of that. 183 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: Although everybody in the house loved to eat and she 184 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 3: loved to eat, and she was overweight. She was the 185 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 3: youngest of four sisters, and I think she was always 186 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: like the child in her family, so the idea that 187 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 3: the child would be the cook didn't make sense in 188 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 3: her family. But the one thing that my mom cooked 189 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 3: well is turkey, and only made it maybe twice a year, 190 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 3: but it is to this day maybe my favorite meal. 191 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 3: It had onions, it had lemon, salt and pepper. It 192 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 3: was it was simple, but it was seasoned and it 193 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: was cooked to where the skin was crispy and the 194 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 3: meat was dry, but there was lots of ozu. So 195 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 3: the combination of the dryer meat, which I prefer, with 196 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 3: the wet aujou was the perfect combination. You could moisten 197 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 3: it to taste. And I wonder if that there's. 198 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 2: So psychological home. 199 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: A simple roasted turkey that was incredible, incredible, and now 200 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 3: we made it a habit at home to do Thanksgiving 201 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 3: dinner once a month. Oh really, And we do Thanksgiving 202 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 3: once a month and invite friends and it's great. 203 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. It is the best American meal, isn't it? 204 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: Once a year? 205 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 3: Absolutely? And why? 206 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 2: And so this is how you grew up and did 207 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 2: the music start in high school? 208 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: My love of music started before that, from the time 209 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 3: I was probably three years old, you know, listening to 210 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: the Beatles as a kid. My parents played music in 211 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 3: the house and somehow there was a lot of music 212 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 3: around and I can't can't put my finger on it. 213 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 3: Usually friends had older brothers or sisters who had record 214 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 3: collections or extended family, and they were all really different. 215 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 3: And one cousin, Mitchell, who liked Bruce Springsteen in more 216 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: rock music, and I had another cousin, Marris, who liked 217 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: things like Kraftwork and more experimental music. And I would 218 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 3: spend every weekend with my aunt Carol, who was like 219 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 3: my second mom, and she would take me to the 220 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 3: theater and take me to museums and play classical music 221 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 3: for me. And it was a whole other world. Whereas 222 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: my parents were it was different than that. My dad 223 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: liked Latin jazz and Frank Sinatra, and my mom liked 224 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 3: the pop music of the day, and maybe Barber Streisan, 225 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 3: certain singers. 226 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: And do you think when we were just talking about 227 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: music and food and about the simplicity and the layering 228 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: and the ingredient, did you feel that growing up or 229 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: did that come later? 230 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 3: I would say I probably liked simple food, and I 231 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 3: probably never had great simple food when I was young, 232 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 3: but I tended to like simpler food. So I think 233 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 3: always a music I always had a clectic taste in music. 234 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 3: I would hang out in record stores forever to learn, 235 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: you know. I would befriend the people who work there, 236 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 3: and I like the Stooges. What else would I like? 237 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 3: And they're like, oh, you might like the MC five, 238 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 3: and they would play it for me in the store. 239 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 3: And just had an education in the things I was 240 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 3: interested in. And so I would get home from school 241 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: and she and my mom would say, Okay, where are 242 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 3: we going today? And she would be my driver, and well, 243 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 3: let's go to the Magic Store. So she would drive 244 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: me to the Magic Store and she would sit in 245 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 3: the car and wait, and then I would come out 246 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 3: and she'd be reading, you know, she would just read 247 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 3: in the car, and I would be in the magic 248 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 3: store for probably three hours, because from nine years old 249 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: until probably sixteen, I was really into magic. And I 250 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 3: would spend a tremendous amount of time in bookstores as well. 251 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: I love bookstores. I would just hang out out and read, 252 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 3: and I spend a lot of time in the library also, 253 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 3: I love the library. 254 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,239 Speaker 2: You talk about going to the magic shop very endearingly, 255 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: describing your mother sitting in the car for three hours, 256 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: three hours in a magic shop. Do you think there 257 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: is a link between the transformational process of magic, of music, 258 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 2: and of food. 259 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: The thing with magic is you learn to be skeptical 260 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 3: of everything. Once you understand how tricks work, you see 261 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 3: that the same methods used by magicians are used by 262 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 3: advertisers and by newscasters, and you start to be able 263 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 3: to see the layer of what's really going on behind 264 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 3: this facade. So I would say it affects everything going on, 265 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 3: and you look at things in a deep way, and 266 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: not necessarily in just a skeptical way, in a more 267 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 3: based in reality versus an narrative way. When I go 268 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 3: to a show of any kind, I'm always paying attention 269 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 3: to the mechanisms at play as much as the content. 270 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 3: You know, My favorite trick was called metamorphosis. It was 271 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 3: a trick made famous originally, I believe by Houdini. I 272 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: never did it, but I liked seeing it, and I 273 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 3: like the idea of it. The magician gets bound, put 274 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 3: in a sack and put in a steamer trunk, sealed 275 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 3: in a trunk, and then the assistant would stand on 276 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 3: top of the trunk and raise a curtain and drop 277 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 3: the curtain, and it happens instantaneously. The curtain comes up, 278 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 3: the curtain comes down, and when the assistant raises the curtain, 279 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 3: the magician lowers the curtain, and the magician's now standing 280 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: on top of the box, opens up the box and 281 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 3: the assistant is inside. And love that. I love that. 282 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 3: I love this feeling of this instant transposition. The same 283 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 3: is true in me in that a certain person plays 284 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 3: a guitar piece and it's beautiful, and another person plays 285 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 3: the same guitar piece and there's this other magical dimension 286 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 3: to it that you can't put a finger on. You 287 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 3: don't know why it's I don't even know if it 288 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 3: better's the right words. You don't know why it's different 289 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 3: because technically it looks the same, but one of them 290 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 3: you want to hear over and over and over again 291 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 3: forever and you're filled with wonder, and the other one 292 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: it's the same notes in the same order. It's the 293 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: same speed, played with great dexterity, but it doesn't have 294 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 3: this other life to it. And I would say the 295 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 3: same with food. 296 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: It's the same with a recipe that you can say. 297 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: I always say that a recipe is part poetry and 298 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: part science, Yes, and that the science is the cord 299 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: of a teaspoon of baking powder or three tablespoons of sugar. 300 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: And yet, as you say, the way it stirred, in 301 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: the way it sifted, the way it's put in the 302 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: p So. 303 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 3: I have a question for you, how difficult is it 304 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 3: to keep the consistency of the quality of the food 305 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 3: with different people involved over time. 306 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. I think that we have 307 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: very few chefs, so it's not a big kitchen, and 308 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 2: we don't have what you're doing in Los Angeles when 309 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: I was in kitchens that you have one head chef 310 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: and a lot of chefs on the line. So there 311 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 2: is a kind of communication really of how you do it. 312 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: But that. 313 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: Is what I look for every time if you come 314 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: to eat, my fears is that you know, I'm grilled 315 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: sea bass coming to the table going to be the 316 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 2: way it was the night before, and you know, and 317 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: very often when you're on the past, the head chef, 318 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: I don't know how it is in music, but the 319 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 2: head chef is the last person to see the plate 320 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 2: that goes out. And it's tricky because sometimes you just 321 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: keep sending it back to the chef who didn't quite 322 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: get it right, and you're taking away their confidence, you're 323 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 2: diminishing them, and you're destroying them. But on the other hand, 324 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: you know that you don't want to sense something out, 325 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 2: so it's constant, you know, judgment. How can you tell 326 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: a musician who's just the one that didn't play the 327 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: guitar the way? What do you do with someone who's 328 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: played something that isn't It's how do you give that. 329 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 3: I'd do my best to cast the people that I 330 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 3: that that can do the work, and if not, I'll 331 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 3: do it again with someone else. 332 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 2: Tell me what happens when you go into the studio. 333 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: You've eaten definitely, I've eaten before and now the way 334 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 2: it used to work for the majority of my life. 335 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 3: I would wake up, do whatever I would do before 336 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: going into the studio, but once I would go to 337 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 3: the studio, that would be it for until I was 338 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 3: time to go to bed. So I would spend the 339 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 3: majority of my time, and which also means in those 340 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 3: days working in New York, it'd be a small room 341 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 3: with no windows, and I would be there for as 342 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 3: long as you know, until the sun came up, and 343 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 3: then I would walk or take a taxi home. So 344 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 3: the majority of my life, I would say, for at 345 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 3: least twenty five years, was being in a small dark room. 346 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 3: So I had very little life outside of a recording 347 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 3: studio because I worked so much so long. Now I've 348 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 3: found a way and just through doing it enough understanding 349 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 3: what's important for me to be there for, what's not 350 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 3: important for me to be there for. And now I 351 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 3: tend to have lunch, go to the studio, work from 352 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 3: maybe one till six. 353 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: And what do you do when you say you were. 354 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 3: Listen to music and then talk about what we can 355 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 3: try next. Sometimes we do it right then, and sometimes 356 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 3: we're making a list of things to try after I 357 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 3: leave in the evening. It depends. I always have anxiety 358 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 3: when a project starts because I never know what's going 359 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 3: to happen. We don't go in with any script. I 360 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: prefer to go in when we have songs, but then 361 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 3: there are a million ways to present a song. So 362 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 3: there's always this sense of what's going to separate this 363 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 3: body of work from the rest of the artist body 364 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 3: of work and everyone else's work, And I don't know 365 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 3: what that is going in. So it's a real experiment 366 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 3: and we come in and I'm nervous until something good happens, 367 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 3: like ah, And then if that thing that's good, even 368 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 3: if it's a even if it doesn't end up this way, 369 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 3: if it's a clue of what the whole vision of 370 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 3: the project can be, even if it's not what it is, 371 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 3: I feel better because at least there's a solution, even 372 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 3: if it doesn't end up being the solution, there's a 373 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 3: possible solution. 374 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: And that feels good because I was reading about the 375 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: way you work and you said that you start with 376 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: an empty sheet. You know that you basically start with nothing, yes, 377 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 2: and then you move from nothing to what you're going 378 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 2: to record that day or work. In my own little way, 379 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: in my own little restaurant, we come in with an 380 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 2: empty sheet of paper. Can we write the menu? Of course, 381 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 2: there are things that we always know we'll have mons area, 382 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 2: and we always know that we'll have four pastas, and 383 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 2: we always know that we'll have two dishes on the grill, 384 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 2: two dishes in the wood oven, then two dishes to roast. 385 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 2: But it does start with an empty sheet, and do 386 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: have a parallel in that. 387 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 3: Absolutely. I come and we usually start by listening to 388 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 3: any ideas that the artists have. Whatever they are, they 389 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 3: could be. It could be a song. They may play 390 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 3: a whole song and then talk about how to do it, 391 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 3: or they may play a demo of a whole worked 392 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 3: out arrangement of a song with musicians and everything. They 393 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 3: may come in and with a riff, you know, just 394 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 3: a little snippet of a song, or a melodic idea 395 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 3: or a lyrical idea, and then we talk about ways 396 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 3: of fleshing it out and what are the next stages 397 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: and what can it be. Sometimes they'll come to me 398 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 3: with a whole body of work, like an album's worth 399 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 3: of things that are in various stages of completion, and 400 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 3: then we listen and see is this something that we 401 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 3: can Is this a starting point that we could build 402 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 3: off of, or is this almost like a recipe that 403 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 3: we could use to start from scratch. You never know 404 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 3: it really is, and then the experiments begin. We try 405 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 3: different things, and I like the idea of in the 406 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 3: case of where someone brings in something, I like the 407 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 3: idea of stripping back the elements and listening to what's there, 408 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 3: and even if it wasn't done in an intentional way 409 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 3: for the way that it's going to be used, sometimes 410 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 3: you find very interesting things that if you were trying 411 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 3: to do it you might not do. It could be 412 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 3: very interesting to listen to. 413 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 2: And that goes back to what we were saying before, 414 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: is that neither you nor I've ever had an idea 415 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 2: really that it is a progression of what you did before, 416 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: always what you're doing now to what you do tomorrow. 417 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: That is, you don't come in and say I have 418 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: a great idea for this song. 419 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 3: Rarely rarely, And the times that I do, I still 420 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 3: hold them lightly because it's until an idea is fleshed 421 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 3: out in when it goes from the idea stage to 422 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 3: the in the world stage, it might not be what 423 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 3: the idea was. You know, you don't know it until 424 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 3: you try it, or in the studio we demonstrate everything 425 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 3: because if if if I tell an artist an idea 426 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 3: or they tell me an idea, what I envision and 427 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 3: what they envision are completely different. Like the two chefs 428 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 3: preparing the same, don't we don't language? Isn't we don't 429 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 3: have a way of communicating to where we actually know 430 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 3: what each other is saying or feeling. 431 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: It's also trust, Isn't it that they trust what you're 432 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 2: saying to them, or they trust what your thoughts. 433 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 3: It's like if I gave you two dishes of food 434 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 3: and I asked you to taste them and ask you 435 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 3: which one you like better. The only right answer is 436 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 3: the one that you like better. Do you know what 437 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 3: I'm saying? There is no right answer. It's with taste. 438 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 3: It's you taste this, You taste this, Tell me which 439 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 3: one you like? There's no same tell me there's no 440 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 3: there are no wrong answers in taste. It is I've 441 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 3: been lucky that when I'm true to my taste, other 442 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 3: people have liked it. It's not the case for everybody, 443 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 3: but that's the best chance we have is to make 444 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 3: the thing that we love and hope that someone else 445 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 3: loves it. If you do something that you don't like 446 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 3: with the idea that someone else might like it, what 447 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 3: are the odds that's going to be good? Then no 448 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 3: one might like it, at least at least I like it, 449 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 3: you know, and I can go to sleep knowing it's 450 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 3: the best I could do. I love it. If no 451 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 3: one else likes it, it's okay. 452 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: And when you just talk about musicians, we were talking 453 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: about Johnny Cash before you showed me that film, which 454 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 2: actually shows an enormous amount of food on the table. Yes, 455 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 2: you know, it shows a kind of vision of someone 456 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: who loves to sing. And how would the various musicians 457 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 2: that you worked with, how their attitudes food. 458 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 3: Food is a big part of the process. And one 459 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 3: of the something I learned early on is that if 460 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 3: you're working in the studio and the music doesn't sound good, 461 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 3: order pizza and. 462 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 2: Then stop there. 463 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you order pizza. And then if you when you're 464 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 3: eating pizza, the music sounds better. 465 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 2: And is it because it is better or no, it's 466 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 2: just a psychological thing. 467 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 3: And so it's like the world is better when you're eating. 468 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 2: Musicians eat before they start playing, or before. 469 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 3: Most musicians eat before they play. With the exception of 470 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 3: some singers who find it hard to sing or maybe 471 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 3: their voice isn't as clear after they've eaten. 472 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 2: Tell me about some of the musicians and their food. 473 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 2: Is there a musician that you actually that. 474 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 3: One of the things that because the nature of the 475 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 3: recording studio is this place you go to and sometimes 476 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: you spend a long time knowing what you're doing, and 477 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 3: sometimes you spend a long time trying to figure out 478 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 3: what you're doing or waiting for thing to come that 479 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 3: you're there to do, but you don't know what it 480 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 3: is yet. So eating in the studio is a standard. 481 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 3: And one of the things about Shangri Laud, the studio 482 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: that I have in Malibu is most studios have one runner, 483 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 3: maybe two, and we have lots of runners. And when 484 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 3: people come and order food, food comes very quickly, which 485 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 3: historically in the studio you'll order lunch and it might 486 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: not come for two hours. Whereas for whatever reason, at 487 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 3: Changra Lad, it's very creature, comfort oriented and we get 488 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 3: really good food really fast, and sometimes we even have 489 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 3: a chef because there's a kitchen. If you ever saw 490 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 3: the movie The Last Waltz, the band are in the kitchen. 491 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: At changra la. That's the You came into my house 492 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 2: today and the first thing you said was that's eat. Yes, 493 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: you did quite quickly. Is the habit? A friend of 494 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 2: mine once said that his family had to rule that 495 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: there should be no longer than forty five seconds when 496 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 2: someone walks into your house that they have a drink 497 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 2: in their hand. And actually, what I think that does 498 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 2: is actually very nice because it means you're what you're doing, 499 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 2: and you're giving somebody something when they come in the house, 500 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: you know. And I think that means something, and so 501 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 2: are the artists that you do associate more with food 502 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 2: than others. But that Johnny Cash did he eat? 503 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 3: Johnny Cash loved a restaurant in Los Angeles called the Ivy, 504 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 3: and wherever he would come to town, we would always 505 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 3: go together to the Ivy. That was his favorite place. 506 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 2: Because also the way someone eats, it tells you about 507 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: the person, doesn't it. I think so. I think if 508 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: you go to a restaurant, A lot of people say 509 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: to me that they wouldn't never hire anybody unless they 510 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: took them to a restaurant for interesting. Are they kind 511 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 2: to the waiter? Are they impatient with the waiter? Do 512 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 2: they share their food? 513 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: No? 514 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: Or Bloomberg told me that if he took somebody out 515 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 2: to lunch for a job interview and they ordered a 516 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: glass of wine, he wouldn't hire them. Interesting, friend sitting 517 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: next to him said, if they didn't order a glass 518 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 2: of wine, I wouldn't hire it. 519 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 3: I heard a story about orstin Wells that he would 520 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 3: finish his plate of food and as soon as his 521 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 3: plate was empty, he'd hold it out next to him 522 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 3: and count to five, and if no one took the plate, 523 00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 3: you would drop it on the floor. 524 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: Really, I will say. 525 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 3: A pet peeve is I do not like to see 526 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 3: an empty plate in front of me for any length 527 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 3: of time. As soon as I finish eating, I really 528 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 3: hope someone takes it away. 529 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 2: What if the person next to is still eating, that 530 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 2: doesn't matter. 531 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 3: It doesn't matter, And I'll often move my plate in 532 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 3: it and maybe you rude manner just away from me. Yeah, 533 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 3: I don't know why it is. It's been a lifelong 534 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 3: I don't know what it is a good discussion with 535 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 3: a therapist. 536 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 2: Maybe yea. 537 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 3: What is it about the empty plate that you don't 538 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 3: want to sit behind? Maybe no, Maybe it's interesting. 539 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 2: Now, what about the days of def Jam in the beginning, 540 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: it is known that you created this incredible music recording 541 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 2: company by nurturing artists, by being brave, by being radical, 542 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 2: by seeking them out, by being kind to them. What 543 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: was that like? 544 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 3: Well, I would say the recording studio that we worked 545 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 3: in most I dubbed it chun King House of Metal, 546 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 3: which is still what it's called, although the studio moved 547 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 3: to a different location and it was in Chinatown, and 548 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 3: we would eat a lot of Chinese food because we're 549 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 3: Chintown New York. Food's great? 550 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 2: Was that when you became vegan? 551 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 3: No, I became vegan right when I moved to California 552 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 3: in college. The first thing I gave up was soad. 553 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 3: I used to drink a sixty four ounce Pepsi with 554 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 3: every meal, insane, And then I gave that up and 555 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 3: I switched to a picture of iced coffee, and without knowing, 556 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 3: I was trying to replace the caffeine with the caffeine. 557 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 3: I didn't know that, but I drank a lot of 558 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 3: iced coffee. And then I gave up caffeine at that 559 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 3: point in time, and then I was only drinking water. 560 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: Then I gave up red meat and I got to 561 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: the point where I was basically eating chicken and vegetables. 562 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 3: I never really liked fish, so I didn't eat fish. 563 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 3: I never really liked eggs, so I didn't eat eggs. 564 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 3: So it was chicken and vegetables. And I remember a 565 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 3: friend of mine gave me a book called Diet for 566 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 3: New America, which was an anti meat book, and they said, 567 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 3: if you read this book, you're never going to want 568 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 3: to eat chicken again. And I decided before I read 569 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,239 Speaker 3: the book, I'm an experiment with not eating chicken, just 570 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 3: to see how long I can go. And then I 571 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 3: ended up never eading chicken for twenty something years. 572 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: So at that point, you were a vegan And what 573 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: made you stop being vegan? 574 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 3: I weighed one hundred pounds more than I do now. 575 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 3: I was terribly depressed, bad skin, I was sick for 576 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 3: a long time. Yeah. I worked with a performance expert 577 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 3: who really wanted me to eat animals, and I wouldn't 578 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 3: because I was a vegan and that was not an option. 579 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 2: What is a performance expert. 580 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 3: It's a person He worked with Olympic athletes or heads 581 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 3: of companies, different people. He was a doctor and I 582 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 3: heard about him. I read a book This is when 583 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 3: I was really big, and you know, could barely walk 584 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 3: to the end of the block without being out of breath. 585 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 3: And I read a book by a guy who ran 586 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 3: a thousand miles in eleven days, and I just thought, 587 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 3: it's like, I can't walk down the block, yet there's 588 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 3: a human who can run a thousand miles and eleven days. 589 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 3: Some things I'm doing something wrong. I'm doing something wrong. 590 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 3: And in his book he talked about meeting this guy 591 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 3: named Phil maffatone who changed the way he trained. And 592 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 3: I sent him a message saying I'd like to hire 593 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 3: h miss my doctor. He was based in Florida at 594 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: that time, and I was living in California, and he 595 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 3: sent me back an email saying I've retired. I've stopped 596 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 3: my medical practice and mentioned he didn't know who I 597 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 3: was at all, and he said I gave up medicine 598 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 3: to write songs. And I wrote back, well, if you're interested, 599 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 3: I can mentor you on the songwriting, if you can 600 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 3: mentor me on the health stuff. And then I saw 601 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 3: him several times. Then he ended up living in my 602 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 3: house for two years and I did everything he said. 603 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 3: He got me to eat eggs and fish, neither of 604 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 3: which I ever liked purely is medicine. He said, just 605 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 3: think of this as this is the medicine you need. 606 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 3: I know you don't like it. You're not eating it 607 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 3: for pleasure. You're eating this because you need this animal protein. 608 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 3: So I did that and I got much much healthier, 609 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 3: but I didn't lose weight yet. And he said, I 610 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 3: watch everything you eat. I'm with you every day. I 611 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 3: see how you exercise. He said, ninety nine out of 612 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 3: one hundred people, all the weight would fall off. For 613 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 3: some reason, it's not falling off. And then I thought about, well, 614 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 3: my mom was obese eventually in a wheelchair. Maybe it's 615 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 3: just a genetic thing. It is what it is. And 616 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 3: then I went out to lunch one day with Mo Austin. 617 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 3: Do you know Boston Okay, I passed away at ninety 618 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 3: six years old. He was one of my mentors in 619 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 3: music and maybe the most beautiful person in the music industry, 620 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 3: really beautiful person. And if you knew his wife, Evelyn, 621 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 3: she was incredible, a light being, really beautiful, beautiful people. 622 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 3: And we went out to lunch one day and he said, 623 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 3: you know, I'm really getting worried about you. You're really big. 624 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 3: I know you work, I know you walk, I know 625 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 3: you care. You know you're diligent about what you eat. 626 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 3: But you're really getting big, and I'm worried about your health. 627 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 3: I'm going to get the name of a nutritionists. I 628 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: want you to go to my guy, and I want 629 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 3: you to do it. Every says, and I said, fine, 630 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 3: I'll do it, knowing it wouldn't work because I've tried everything, 631 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 3: but I'm I love mo, I'll do what ever he says. 632 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 3: And he sent me to a weight loss specialist at 633 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 3: UCLA and he put me on a diet of seven 634 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 3: protein shakes a day and it was just water and 635 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 3: egg protein, and then one meal a day at the 636 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 3: end of the day, a meal which was fish, soup, salad, 637 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,719 Speaker 3: very low calorie, low carb, high protein meal. And I 638 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 3: did that and in fourteen months, I lost one hundred 639 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 3: and thirty five pounds. 640 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 2: That's a lot. 641 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 3: That's a lot. That's like a whole per like a 642 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 3: whole person. 643 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 2: Probably what Max. 644 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 3: So at that point in time, yeh, I was eating 645 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 3: drinking eggshakes, still eating eggs, still eating fish, but not 646 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 3: eating any other meats. And then I read a book 647 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 3: called The Paleo solution, but he explained how all the 648 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 3: different foods work in our body, and I believed every 649 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 3: word of it. And it talked about how aultimately red 650 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 3: meat is the single best thing that you can eat. 651 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 3: And I was torn because in my mind, I'm still 652 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 3: a vegan. I'm eating fish and eggs as medicine. I'm 653 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 3: drinking these eggshakes. Still his weight, Yeah, but I still 654 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,959 Speaker 3: don't eat flesh, you know, I don't eat animal flesh. 655 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 3: And I believed in the book so much that I 656 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 3: bought one hundred copies and I was giving people, but 657 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 3: I wouldn't do it because I was a vegan, so 658 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 3: I could, you know, I couldn't do it. And after 659 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 3: about a year of giving this book away, it just 660 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 3: felt like it's disingenuous to be sharing this information and 661 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 3: not doing it myself. Doesn't seem right. And it was 662 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: on my birthday. Moodiella and I. Moodiel was a very 663 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 3: I was a vegan, she was a vegetarian. We went 664 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 3: out to dinner one of our favorite restaurants in Los 665 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 3: Angeles called Capo. If you've been a Capo in Santa Monica, 666 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 3: spectacular restaurant, maybe the best in LA and they grilled 667 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 3: meat on an oak wood fire. Really, I think it's oak, 668 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 3: might be pecan, it's oak. Incredible meat place. Although I 669 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 3: always went there and ate fish, and they had great fish. 670 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 3: So we both ordered fish like normal, and we ordered 671 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 3: a steak and we had it in the center of 672 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 3: the table between us and we ate our fish, and 673 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 3: then each of us had one bite of the meat. 674 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 3: And it was a terrible experience because if you haven't 675 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 3: eaten meat forero point twenty three years, it's like eating 676 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 3: human flesh. It's an insane thing to get over the 677 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 3: way our brains work. Even the smell of meat cooking 678 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 3: was a hard thing to be around back then. But 679 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 3: I believed it was what was healthiest, even though I 680 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 3: had been weaned off of it through this process. And 681 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 3: we did that maybe every week or two we would 682 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 3: go to Capo and have a bite or two of meat, 683 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 3: and then after about six weeks we were able to 684 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 3: just order steak. 685 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: We were just talking about your house in Italy. So 686 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 2: you chose to live in Italy which has passes every 687 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 2: two times a day. Do you eat carbs now? 688 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 3: We eat in Italy? All the rules change certain things. Yeah, 689 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 3: there are certain rules at certain times. I have one 690 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 3: called travel day, which is on a travel day where 691 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 3: you're flying. I don't really like to fly, so one 692 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 3: of the rules of travel days you could eat anything 693 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 3: you want. Most of these things have more to do 694 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 3: with what you do all the time. So on an 695 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 3: all the time basis, we eat red meat and some vegetables. 696 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,399 Speaker 3: That's our that's what we mean. And I'll say I'll 697 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 3: eat meat, I'll eat chicken, but I think it seems 698 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 3: like grass fed beef seems to be the best. Or 699 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 3: wild game. Will eat a good amount of wild game, bison. 700 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 3: That's pretty much. 701 00:35:45,920 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 2: What we eat, you feel. My last question to you, 702 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 2: Rick Rubin, is what would be your comfort food? 703 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 3: Pizza? And I try to do it as infrequently as possible, 704 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 3: but it is the one that's the default. Too much 705 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 3: going on, tired, bad mood, nothing, you know, nothing feels 706 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 3: like it's going to make it better. 707 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 2: Maybe pizza, okay, And I hope you don't need that's 708 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 2: right off. I want you to have Thank you so 709 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 2: much for coming. Thank you. 710 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Lookbook is now available in bookshops and online. 711 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: It has over one hundred recipes, beautifully illustrated with photographs 712 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,720 Speaker 1: from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book has fifty 713 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a host of 714 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted for new cooks. 715 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,800 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Lookbook recipes for cooks of all ages