1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Col Zone Media. On January twentieth, twenty twenty five, Donald 2 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Trump was sworn in as president again. In one of 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: his first acts, that very same day, he signed a 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: proclamation that commuted the sentences of fourteen people who played 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: key roles in orchestrating the January sixth, twenty twenty one 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: riot at the United States Capitol. Everyone else, over fifteen 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: hundred people who'd been charged with crimes and connection with 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: the events that took place that day was pardoned. Most 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: of them minority served their time, but the pardons restored 10 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: their rights to do things like vote, serve on juries, 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: and buy guns. Hundreds of defendants whose cases were still 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: working their way through the legal system were suddenly relieved 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: of that burden. Their cases just went away. And for 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: about two hundred of those fifteen hundred people, that pardon 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: came while they were still in federal custody serving sentences 16 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: for the crimes they'd been found guilty of committing. Among 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: those two hundred people freed with the stroke of the 18 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: president's pen that day was Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio, 19 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: and I think it was a big win for America, 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: so America's back. Four months later, he was back in Washington, 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: d C. With a big announcement you want to take 22 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: away free nothing better to do? 23 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: Episode. 24 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry, that's not the announcement. That's DC Neighborhood 25 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: Commissioner Patricia Aguino putting on a one woman protest against 26 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: the Proud Boys during that press conference. This is Enrique Tarrio, 27 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: Ethan Norden, Joseph Biggs, Zachary Real, and Dominic Bazolda versus 28 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: the United States government. That's right. A get out of 29 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: jail free card wasn't enough. They're suing for one hundred 30 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: million dollars. I'm Molly Conker, and this is weird little guys. 31 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: This isn't a typical episode. I don't know what that 32 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: actually even means any more, None of them really are. 33 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 1: But this isn't the story of one weird little guy. 34 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: It's more of a weird little situation and one that's ongoing. 35 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: This lawsuit is very freshly filed, so there will be 36 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: more to this story. But it's a story with a 37 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: lot of weird little characters, weird little guys whose stories 38 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: you may already be familiar with, and guys whose stories 39 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: are intertwined with some we've already talked about, and others 40 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: yet to come. That project I keep saying I'm working 41 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: on is still on the back burner. I'll get to 42 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: it eventually. You can probably hear in my voice that 43 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: I'm a little under the weather. I was sick as 44 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: a dog all week. I think I might have finally 45 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: gotten COVID. I mean, God only knows, because those little 46 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: testics don't really work anymore. In what difference does it 47 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: really make? But I finally understand what you all have 48 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: been talking about when you say you lost your sense 49 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: of taste and smell. I mean I heard the word, 50 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: and I understood intellectually what you meant by them. But 51 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: it just doesn't sink in until you've got your tongue 52 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: pressed onto a lemon and you feel absolutely fucking nothing. 53 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: It's weird. So if that is what it was, I 54 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: guess that makes me maybe the last person in the 55 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: world to finally get it. I was starting to think 56 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: maybe I really was God's favorite, you know, somehow immune 57 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: to the worldwide plague. It's probably some kind of miracle 58 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: that I managed to escape it for a full five years. 59 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: I mean I was careful, right, I wear my mask 60 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: in court, but I got tear gased at the Insurrection 61 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, I was shouldered to shoulder with 62 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: America's most unvaccinated, masked and coughing in the haze. I 63 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: spent some time in jail in twenty twenty. I was 64 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: a committed nail bier until last year. I had my 65 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: grubby little hands in my mouth sixteen times an hour 66 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: during a global pandemic. I never got it. I did 67 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: get really sick in the fall of twenty twenty, but 68 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: according to the CBS drive through nasal swam, that was 69 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: something else, just some disgusting virus I got as a 70 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,679 Speaker 1: souvenir from an anti vax rally where a man dressed 71 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: as George Washington fell to his knees screaming about how 72 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: he was America's greatest prayer warrior. But that's neither here 73 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: nor there, point being. The virus comes for us all. 74 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm fine now, but I spent the better part of 75 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: the week blowing my nose and complaining and not getting 76 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: any work done. So here we are again. The lawsuit 77 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: we're talking about today was filed on June sixth, twenty 78 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: twenty five. The plaintiffs are five proud boys Enrique Tario, 79 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: Joe Biggs, Ethan Norden, Zachary Real, and Dominic Pazzola. All 80 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: five were convicted by a jury of seditious conspiracy for 81 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: their actions leading up to and during the breach of 82 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: the Capitol Building on January sixth, twenty twenty one. Tario 83 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: was not physically present in DC on the day of 84 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: the riot, but he was central to planning the attack 85 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: that ultimately transpired, and as the leader. Tario received the 86 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: longest sentence of any January sixth defendant twenty two years. 87 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: Ethan Nordean was sentenced to eighteen years, Joe Biggs got 88 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: seventeen years, Zachary Reel got fifteen, and Dominic Pasola was 89 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: sentenced to ten years in prison. All five were released 90 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 1: after Trump's proclamation about the pardons, but of those five, 91 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: only in Riquet Tario was actually pardoned. Real, Nordeen, Pasola, 92 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: and Biggs did not receive pardons. They were on that 93 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: shortlist of high profile rioters who only had their sentences commuted, 94 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: and in this lawsuit they claimed their rights were vile. Obviously, 95 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: but we'll get to that. The suit names as its 96 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: defendants the United States of America, FBI, special Agent, Nicole 97 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: Miller in her individual capacity, and John Doe's one through ten. 98 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: These John Doe defendants are as yet unidentified employees of 99 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: the FBI and DOJ. It's not really unusual at this 100 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: stage of a suit like this to have these John 101 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: or Jane Doe defendants. You can identify individual actors through 102 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: the discovery process. The thing about the listed parties that 103 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: did catch my eye, though, is that they filed the 104 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: suit against those three named defendants. But in the section 105 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: of the complaint where you specify who the parties at 106 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: issue are, there are inexplicably a number of additional parties listed. 107 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: Every lawsuit is different. The facts are going to be 108 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: specific to the case, but the structure of a civil 109 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: complaint is more or less always pretty much the same. 110 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: There's a pretty bog standard structure and a lot of 111 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: boilerplate language. There's no getting around it. You can't get 112 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 1: fancy with it. There's a required format at the top. 113 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: You have your little introduction, and then you list and 114 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: describe the parties. You spell out the justification for jurisdiction 115 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: and venue, and then comes the statement of facts, where 116 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: you tell a little story about what happened and that's 117 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: followed by your cause of action, why are you suing specifically? 118 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: What legal theories are we operating off of? Here at 119 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: the bottom you say what kind of damages you're trying 120 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: to recover and whether or not you're asking for a 121 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: jury trial, and then it's signed, dated, and filed. There's 122 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: more to it than that. Get a lawyer if you're 123 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: trying to write a lawsuit. This isn't a crash course 124 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: on the federal rules of civil procedure or anything like that, 125 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: but you get the idea. Everybody's operating off the same template, 126 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: no matter how you're filling in the blankes here, we're 127 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: using the same format. So in the section where you 128 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: list the parties, we can all expect to see the parties, 129 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: the people named in the lawsuit, the people or entities 130 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,359 Speaker 1: who are party to the case, the plaintiffs and the defendants, 131 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: the people who are doing the suing, and the people 132 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: being sued. And in this complaint, we do have those. 133 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: We've got our five proud boy plaintiffs and the name 134 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: defendants FBI Special Agent Nicole Miller and John Doe's one 135 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: through ten. But for some reason, this section also lists 136 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of other people and organizations who are not 137 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: parties to the lawsuit, like the FBI, the DOJ, former 138 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: DC Metropolitan Police Lieutenant Shane LeMond, and a confidential informant 139 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: that the suit calls Jen Low, despite readily of public 140 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: information that Jen Loo is a pseudonym used by a 141 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: woman whose real name is Jenny Lynn Salinis. And this 142 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: section of the complaint also lists the Proud Boys as 143 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: an organization, and it's described like this, The Proud Boys 144 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: are an organization of patriotic political activists dedicated to preserving 145 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: and promoting Western civilization in general and American society in particular. 146 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: The Proud Boy's organization and its members have been subject 147 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: to systemic harassment and mischaracterization by far left wing organizations 148 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: such as the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti 149 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: Defamation League, and politically biased state and federal prosecutors. I 150 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: know it sounds like I'm nitpicking, and I am, but 151 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: this section of the complaint is called parties. It's for 152 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: listing the parties to the lawsuit, not editorializing about barious 153 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: characters in the story that you're telling. It's sloppy and weird, 154 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: but I think I know why, and I think it's 155 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 1: the same reason that the complaint was filed in the 156 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: federal court in the Middle District of Florida. See. At 157 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: first I thought this was some kind of mistake. It 158 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 1: wouldn't be the first time this particular attorney was connected 159 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: to a lawsuit that was accidentally filed in the wrong 160 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: district because Enrique Tario famously lives in Miami, which is 161 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: not in the Middle District of Florida. But in justifying 162 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: the chosen venue, the complaint notes that one of the 163 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: plaintiffs does reside in the Middle District of Florida, though 164 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: it misspells the word one and it doesn't specify which one. 165 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: For what it's worth, it's Joe Biggs. The Proud Boys 166 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: owe the Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church in DC over 167 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: three million dollars, and according to their most recent filings 168 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: related to collecting that money, Joe Biggs lives in Belusha County. 169 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: So that's fair. They can file in the Middle District 170 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: of Florida, and venue shopping is normal. They could have 171 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: chosen to file this in a handful of different federal 172 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: court districts. The plaintiffs live all over the place. It's 173 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: pretty normal. To choose the court you think will work 174 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: out best for you for whatever reason. But I think 175 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: they chose the Middle District of Florida because that's the 176 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: only federal court district where their attorney is a member 177 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: of the bar. I'll admit it. I was surprised when 178 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: I saw who they'd gotten to represent them, and maybe 179 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have been. He's like a bad penny. He 180 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: just keeps turning up because they're at the very bottom 181 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: of this very weird, twenty eight page complaint. There's the 182 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: signature Augustus Invictus Esquire. He's come up a handful of 183 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: times on this show, but it's never really the right 184 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: time to tell you about him. A couple of weeks ago, 185 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: in the episode about the lawsuit filed by Unite the 186 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: Right protesters against the city of Charlottesville because the police 187 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: weren't nice to them during their Nazi rally, he's the 188 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: one who ghost wrote that lawsuit. Months ago. In that 189 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: episode about those astro turfed marches against Sharia law, he 190 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: was the organizer and headline speaker of the march in Orlando, 191 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: And of course, in the episode in fall of last 192 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: year about the Nazi torch March at Eva, he made 193 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: an appearance as one of the marchers. It's going to 194 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: be a long, strange story when the day finally comes 195 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: for him to get his own episodes. But that day 196 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: is not today. He is, among other things, a practicing attorney. 197 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: On his website, he bills himself as the Attorney for 198 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: the Damned. That site, which is ostensibly an advertisement for 199 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: his legal services, is dominated by this gigantic screen shot 200 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: of a Charlotte Observer article about his own acquittal in 201 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two on a domestic violence charge, and on 202 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: the site he proudly displays his own mug shot next 203 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: to a professional headshot, juxtaposing these two images to show 204 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: potential clients that sure, he's a professional attorney, but he's 205 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: been where they are. He gets it, and he won, 206 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: and you can too. Attorney for the Damned is a 207 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: mantle that's been claimed by others before him, and applied 208 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: to others still. It's the title of two separate books 209 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: about a different Ohio born attorney, Clarence Darrow, who you 210 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: may remember from The Scope's Monkey Trial. Another book with 211 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: the same title was written by an attorney who provides 212 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: state appointed services to those nemed criminally insane, and it 213 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: was the title of an article about death row appeals 214 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: in a nineteen eighty seven issue of the American Bar 215 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: Association Journal. It's a phrase that gets tossed around, but 216 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: in my mind, Augustus Invictus is the attorney for the 217 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: damned in the same way Edgar Steele was like Invictus. 218 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: It was Steele who gave himself the nickname, and in 219 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: Steele's case, it was after he unsuccessfully defended the Aryan 220 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: Nations in a lawsuit filed by the Southern Poverty Law Center. 221 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: The plaintiffs in that case were members of a family 222 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: who'd been shot at by the security guards at a 223 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: Nazi compound in Idaho. Steele eventually died in prison in 224 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. He was three years into a fifty year 225 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: sentence for trying to hire someone to murder his wife 226 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: with a pipe bomb. So what I mean is Augustus 227 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: Invictus is a movement lawyer. He's not just there a lawyer, 228 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: He's a fellow traveler. Back in twenty seventeen, when he 229 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: was the headline speaker of the United the Right rally 230 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: in Charlottesville, he was also a proud Boy Augustus Invictus, 231 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: was second in command of a short lived group called 232 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: the Fraternal Order of Alt Knights. It was a group 233 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: within a group. It was a subset of Proud Boys 234 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: who were especially committed to violence, and it was fully 235 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: sanctioned by Proud Boys leadership. Shortly after the group was 236 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: formed by Kyle Chapman in the spring of twenty seventeen, 237 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: Proud Boy's magazine ran an article with the headline the 238 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: kids are Alt Knights, and the subhead was based Stickman 239 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: organizes official military arm of the Proud Boys. Based Stickman 240 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: was the nickname that Kyle Chapman earned after beating a 241 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: counter protester with a stick at a Trump rally in 242 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: March of twenty seventeen. He wasn't even a Proud Boy 243 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: at the time, but after the video of the assault 244 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: went viral, he was recruited and joined. Broadboy's founder Gavin 245 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: McGinnis took advantage of Chapman's viral Internet fame and had 246 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: him on as a guest on his show several times 247 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: in the weeks that followed. McGinnis even claims that he 248 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: considered making Chapman in the president of the entire organization, 249 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: but settled on endorsing Chapman's leadership of this new militant wing. 250 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: In May of twenty seventeen, Chapman invited Augustus and Victus 251 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: to speak at a free speech rally in Boston. Invictus, 252 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: who had already lost one run for Senate and was 253 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: about to announce another one, advocated for armed revolution over 254 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: political activism, and he urged the crowd to take up 255 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: arms because the Civil War had already started. 256 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 3: When comte port, when political port, he's only ineffective, and 257 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 3: speech and competitions in order rests me nothing. 258 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: You have nothing left with four suborbs. If I let 259 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: myself get going down this path, we'll be stuck on 260 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: this tangent for months. But the point is they didn't 261 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: hire Augustus and Victus because he was the finest lawyer 262 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: money could buy. I'm fairly familiar with his work, and 263 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: I would argue that he is very much not. They 264 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: hired him because they have a history and they share 265 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: a belief system, and he was very available. He's been 266 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: struggling to make ends meet for the last few years. 267 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: I think, in part because people are hesitant to hire 268 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: an attorney who might not make it to their court date. 269 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: He is at this very moment out on bond. He 270 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: was convicted in October of twenty twenty four on the 271 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: felony charge of burning an object with the intent to 272 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: intimidate for his perticipation in that Nazi torch march at 273 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: the University of Virginia back in twenty seventeen. In January 274 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: of this year, a judge imposed a sentence of nine 275 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: months in jail, but the execution of that sentence is 276 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: currently on hold pending his appeal. It's not ideal for 277 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: an attorney to be convicted of a crime. Can have 278 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: serious consequences for their license and know. The rules vary 279 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: from court to court. In the state of Florida, the 280 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: rules are actually extremely clear. Attorneys must self report any 281 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: felony conviction to the state bar within ten days of 282 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: the conviction order being entered. They're then automatically suspended from 283 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: the bar, and the rules very specifically say that this 284 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: suspension does remain in effect during any appeals process for 285 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: the criminal conviction. An attorney convicted of a felony can 286 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: challenge their suspension from the bar. It is by order 287 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: of the Florida Supreme Court automatic. Those are the rules. 288 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: They're pretty clear, but they don't seem to have been 289 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: applied here. I have no explanation for this. At a 290 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: bond hearing earlier this year, Invictus's criminal defense attorney offered 291 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: a vague assertion that his client had self reported the 292 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: conviction to the Florida State Bar as required, but says 293 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: they told him that they wouldn't make any determination about 294 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: suspending his license or disbarring him until after the appeal 295 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: had concluded. That's what his attorney said. That's all I 296 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: can tell you. That's not consistent with the rules as 297 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: they're written, and there's no documentation I can find about 298 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: this either way. But if you take them at their 299 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: word that the Florida Bar said it's okay for him 300 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: to keep practicing law in a Florida state court, I 301 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: can accept that Florida's a weird place. But every jurisdiction 302 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: where an attorney practices law has its own rules, and 303 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: I did look up the local rules in the Middle 304 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 1: District of Florida. That's the only federal court aside from 305 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court where Invictus is a member of 306 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: the bar, and in the Middle District of Florida local 307 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: rule two point zero four B states that any attorney 308 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: admitted to practice in the district must report any felony 309 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: conviction within fourteen days. Suspension from the bar is automatic. 310 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: Attorneys in this position can file a petition to stay 311 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 1: the automatic suspension, and that petition has to be heard 312 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: by a judge. I think if it came before a judge, 313 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: I would be able to find evidence that this happened, 314 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: and I can't. Absence of proof isn't proof of absence. 315 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: I get that it's possible that it happened, but I 316 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: can't find anything, and I don't know why he would 317 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: be allowed to continue to practice law under these conditions. 318 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: It's not clear to me if the proud boy's lawyer 319 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: is even going to be allowed to appear in court 320 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: on this case. It's even more unclear what anyone's plan 321 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: is if their lawyer is unexpectedly required to report to jail. 322 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: His current situation is fluid. The judge who granted him 323 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: his appeal bond could decide at any time that he's 324 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: changed his mind and he's going to impose the sentence 325 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: next week. When Enrique Tarrio spoke to a reporter from 326 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal about this lawsuit, He said that 327 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 1: they'd had no trouble at all finding an attorney to 328 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: take the case, saying, quote, we were able to shop, 329 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: and he claims he spoke to more than a dozen 330 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: law firms, adding I believe attorneys are going to do 331 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: backflips trying to get JA sixers on board with a 332 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: lot of lawsuits. And if this suit proved successful, that 333 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: may be true down the line, but I'm not sure 334 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: it's been true in his experience, because if he had 335 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: the pick of the litter, I don't think he would 336 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: have picked Augustus and Victus. And the press conference he 337 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: held to announce filing this suit last week wasn't actually 338 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: the first one. Back in February of this year, four 339 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: months before the suit was actually filed, Trio held a 340 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: press conference outside the Capitol Building. 341 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: Let me be clear, I'm not talking about violent retribution. 342 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: I'm talking about something much more powerful, accountability and the 343 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: rule of law. 344 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 345 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: That is why today we are announcing a lawsuit against 346 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: the DOJ. And at that press conference back in February, 347 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 1: Trio said they'd already raised tons of money for their 348 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: legal defense, all in cryptocurrency. Believe it or not, And 349 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: he also said they already had a lawyer lined up, 350 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: everything was ready to go and they were about to file. 351 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: My question, yet, who exactly is suing for the plaintiffs? 352 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 3: Do you have a lawyer? 353 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: We do have a lawyer. We'll be announcing that in 354 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: the coming weeks, but right now it's the five of 355 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 2: us that are going to be suing the DJ. 356 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: Just a few minutes after that press conference ended, Enrique 357 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: Tarrio was arrested for simple assault after striking the outstretched 358 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: arm of a woman holding up her cell phone to 359 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: take a video of him, But prosecutors ultimately declined to 360 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:46,959 Speaker 1: pursue the case and the lawsuits still didn't materialize. And 361 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: then last month, on May third, twenty five, Enrique Tarrio 362 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: took his mom out to dinner. If you knew anything 363 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: about Enrique Tarrio, you know he's fiercely loyal to his mother, 364 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: Zuni du Artes. Kind of a mama's boy, and normally 365 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: I would leave a guy's mom out of this, but 366 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: Tario's mother has been deeply involved in her son's political 367 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: activities for years. It's her name on the incorporation paperwork 368 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: for the business that has processed online payments for Proud 369 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: Boys merchandise for years, and since the events of January sixth, 370 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: she's been a vocal supporter of her son and his 371 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: co defendants. So last month, they're out to dinner, and 372 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: they're out to dinner at a rather particular restaurant. They 373 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: were invited to dine at mar A Lago by some 374 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: unnamed member of the club, and during dinner that evening, 375 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: this unnamed friend of theirs introduced them to the President 376 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: of the United States as he was crossing the patio 377 00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: where they were eating. That night, Tarrio tweeted, and I 378 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: just had a great conversation with Potus. He called me 379 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: and my mother over while we were at dinner and 380 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: said he was sorry for what Joe Biden did to 381 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: all j sixers. He knew the hardships me and my 382 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: family face for three long years. He knew how many 383 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: times they moved me, and he said he's working on 384 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: making things right. I thanked him for giving me my 385 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: life back. He replied with I love you guys. To 386 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: all the Jay sixers. He wanted me to send y'all 387 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: a message, He said, thank you working to make things right. 388 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: What could that possibly mean? Trio's already been pardoned. Trump 389 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: pardoned him. He's free, his conviction is wiped away. He's 390 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: technically still a convicted felon for a twenty thirteen conviction 391 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: for his role in a scheme to resell a million 392 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: dollars worth of stolen diabetic test strips. But that's not 393 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 1: what Trump meant. I mean, technically, Trump could pardon him 394 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: for that too. It was a federal crime. But that's 395 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: not it. That's not what he means. This Saturday night 396 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: meeting on the patio at Mar A Lago was just 397 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: a day after the announcement that the administration was prepared 398 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: to settle the wrongful death lawsuit filed by the estate 399 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: of Ashley Babbitt. Ashley Babbitt was the January sixth rioter 400 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: who was shot and killed by a Capitol police officer 401 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 1: as she was attempting to climb through a broken window 402 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: during the assault on the Capitol building. In a sane world, 403 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: one with normal rules, I don't think that lawsuit had legs. 404 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe maybe they could have gotten it in 405 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: front of a jury, but I don't think that jury 406 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: would have awarded her family any money settling it was 407 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: a choice it was a message. It was, perhaps in 408 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: the minds of those who think the rioters did nothing wrong, 409 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: an attempt to make it right. The government is going 410 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: to pay out nearly five million dollars to Babbitt's family. 411 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: Her death is tragic. You may not think so, but 412 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: I'll never be happy to see someone get shot and 413 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: killed by a police officer. But let's be so honest. 414 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: It wasn't a wrongful death. I hate to see a 415 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: cop fire his gun. I never want to see that, 416 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: but if it's gonna happen, I think this is one 417 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: of those moments where you kind of have to admit 418 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: it made sense in the moment. I mean, there were 419 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: hordes of wild eyed conspiracy theorists and they directed a 420 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: gallows outside and now they're smashing through the windows get in. 421 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: The lawsuit was never a winner, but they settled, and 422 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: then suddenly here's a cavalcade of insurrectionist at the court's 423 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: doorstep with their hands held out. For one hundred million 424 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: dollars and for what. According to the complaint, their rights 425 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: were violated, specifically their fourth, fifth and sixth Amendment rights. 426 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: They're also bringing a claim of malicious prosecution. We'll take 427 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: these one at a time. Briefly, the first count is 428 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: the Fourth Amendment violations. That's the one that protects you 429 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: from unreasonable searches and seizures, the one that means a 430 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: cop has to get a warrant to search your stuff. 431 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: Good amendment. I'm a big fan. This one's a little 432 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: all over the place. There is a rather serious allegation 433 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: here that the government violated attorney client privilege by illegally 434 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: listening in on phone calls and reading text messages between 435 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: the criminal defendants and their attorneys during the course of 436 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: the investigation and trial. If that happened, that's very serious. 437 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm not going to weigh on on whether it did 438 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: happen in this case, but it's something that can and 439 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: does happen, and it would absolutely be a gross violation 440 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: of their rights if the government was listening in when 441 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: they were having privileged conversations with their lawyers about their 442 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: criminal case. If there's evidence that that happened, that should 443 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: get aired out in court and heard by a jury. 444 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: The other claims made here are something else. The opening 445 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: allegation under this count reads, quote, first, the defendants had 446 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: no probable cause to investigate or prosecute the plaintiffs. The 447 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: defendants were aware that no evidence supported the allegations and 448 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: had to use underhanded and unconstitutional methods in order to 449 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:12,239 Speaker 1: convict the plaintiffs. Oh, no probabill cause at all, Like 450 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: there was not any reason to suspect that maybe any 451 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: one of them had potentially committed some kind of crime, Like, 452 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: for example, what if there was video footage of one 453 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: of them ripping a riot shield out of a police 454 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: officer's hands and then using that riot shield to break 455 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: a window, then becoming the first rioter to physically breach 456 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: the United States Capitol Building. I don't know what if 457 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: there was something like that. No probabill cause. Some of 458 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: the other alleged Fourth Amendment violations here are quote deliberately 459 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: misrepresenting the context, attribution, and content of the text communications 460 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: in order to create the implication of plaintiffs guilt. I'm 461 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: not sure that has anything to do with the Fourth Amendment. 462 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you could argue that the text messages themselves 463 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: were improperly obtained. That's a Fourth Amendment issue, But the 464 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: way a prosecutor characterizes the evidence when it's being presented, 465 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't really implicate the Fourth Amendment. I mean, I 466 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not a lawyer. The second count is 467 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: a Fifth Amendment violation. They claim they were denied their 468 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: right to due process under the law because the law 469 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: as it was applied here was so vague that a 470 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: reasonable person would have no way of knowing they were 471 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: breaking it. Quote, because you can be convicted for conspiracy 472 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: with people over whom you have no authority and to 473 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: whom you gave no orders. Rather, mere statements of approval, agreement, 474 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: and enthusiasm are apparently enough to form a criminal conspiracy, 475 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: provided the points of view are offensive enough to the 476 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: employees of the Federal Breau of Investigation and the Department 477 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: of Justice, no matter how attenuated from criminal action they 478 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: may have been. If I ever do get a whole 479 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: series of episodes out of Augustus and Victus, there will 480 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: probably be an hour long rant about his steadfast refusal 481 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: to accept the legal definition of conspiracy. I feel like 482 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: I've been through this in his work several times, so 483 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna let it go for now. I didn't 484 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: bother to dig into the specifics of the prosecution's theory 485 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: of this case, but one of the real stumbling blocks 486 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: and having this conversation with anyone is that most people 487 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: don't really understand what it means to be part of 488 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: a criminal conspiracy. You don't have to go to a 489 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: special meeting where every single person involved gets together and 490 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: discusses a specific plan and then everyone agrees to specifically 491 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: carry out that plan. It's way more nebulous than that, 492 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: in a way that is actually kind of scary, but 493 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: it's most basic. It just means that two or more 494 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: people agree to do something unlawful. They don't have to 495 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: even succeed at doing it. They just have to make 496 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: some concrete action in that direction. And not everyone involved 497 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: needs to know everyone else, and not everyone involved needs 498 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: to know the whole plan. So if this core group 499 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: of conspirators planned to, I don't know, do something like 500 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: break into the Capitol building to stop the certification of 501 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: the election, and then they took some kind of concrete 502 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: steps towards making that happen, like flying to DC and 503 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: then assembling in a group and then marching towards the 504 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: Capitol and then breaking into it, that's a conspiracy. But 505 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: when Dominic Pazzola and Ethan Norden crawled through that broken 506 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: window and breached the Capitol Building and then encouraged the 507 00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: crowd behind them to come with them. That could be two. 508 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: The planning doesn't have to take place at a second 509 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: location a week beforehand. It can take place right there. 510 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: And the thing about a conspiracy is that once it's 511 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: in motion, you're on the hook for more than just 512 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: your own actions, and more than just the actions you 513 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: think you agreed to ahead of time. So there's a 514 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: lot of nitty gritty here about what exactly is alleged 515 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: by the government what was argued at trial. But my 516 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: guess is this claim in the lawsuit rests squarely on 517 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: a personal disagreement with what is really just the legal 518 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: definition of a criminal conspiracy. The third claim is that 519 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: the government violated their sixth Amendment right now to a 520 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: fair trial. It mostly just copies and paste those same 521 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: allegations that the government illegally monitored privileged attorney client communication, 522 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: but it also claims that the government intimidated a key 523 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: defense witness and frightened him out of testifying at trial. 524 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: The witness in question is former DC Police lieutenant Shane Lamond. 525 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: He's a former police lieutenant because he was sentenced last 526 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: week to eighteen months in prison for obstruction of justice 527 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: and making false statements, charges that arose out of his 528 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: close friendship with Enrique Tario. In the months leading up 529 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: to January sixth, he'd been illegally leaking information to Tario 530 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: about the police investigation into him. In the weeks before 531 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: January sixth, the DC police were investigating an incident that 532 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: took place at a Proud Boy march in d C 533 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: in December of twenty twenty. The group tore a Black 534 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: Lives Matter banner off of a Black church and then 535 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: burned it in the street. That church now owns the 536 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: Proud Boy's trademark, and the Proud Boys owe the church 537 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: three million dollars. But Tarrio's lawsuit alleges that the FBI 538 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: threatened Lamont with obstruction charges if he were to go 539 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: through with his plan to testify for the defense in 540 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: Tario's seditious conspiracy trial, and the suit alleges that this 541 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: caused Lamont to change his mind about testifying. I don't 542 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: actually have any doubt that the FBI had a conversation 543 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: with Shane Lamond. They were investigating him, and he was 544 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: charged and convicted of that crime. It wasn't a threat 545 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: They were conducting an investigation. Whether or not that conversation 546 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: also functioned to some degree as an intentional witness intimidation 547 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: tactic is I don't know. That's not the most likely explanation. 548 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: It would be very hard to prove, and it's just 549 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: not a interesting to me. The fourth and final count 550 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: of the complaint is malicious prosecution, and this threw me 551 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: for a loop. Quote the defendants prosecuted the plaintiffs despite 552 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: knowing that the plaintiffs neither participated in the events of 553 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: January sixth, nor organized and coordinated them. Indeed, they had 554 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: to invent a whole new legal theory, stack the jury, 555 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: reach attorney client communications, and embed a paid government informant 556 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: in order to convict them. I'm stry back up for 557 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: a second. What did that say that the government knew 558 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: that they didn't participate in the events of January sixth. 559 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: They didn't even participate. It's not just that they didn't 560 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: plan or organize it, and it wasn't a seditious conspiracy. 561 00:38:53,239 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: They didn't even participate. That's remarkable. It goes on the 562 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: defendants made, influenced, and or participated in the decision to 563 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: prosecute the plaintiffs for which prosecution there was no probable cause, 564 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: and which caused the plaintiff to suffer a deprivation of liberty. 565 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: The defendant's misconduct directly resulted in the unlawful prosecution and 566 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: continued deprivation of the plaintiff's liberty in violation of their 567 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: constitutional rights, no probable cause, none at all. The problem 568 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: with this theory is it can't be malicious prosecution if 569 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: you're guilty. It's straight up can't. It's not gray, there's 570 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: no but there's no exception. That's not how it works. 571 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: It's not malicious prosecution if you were guilty of the crime, 572 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: and they know that, they even put the definition right 573 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: in there quote. To make out a claim for malicious 574 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: pri section, a plaintiff generally must show three things. One 575 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: that the criminal proceeding was initiated or continued by the 576 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: defendant without probable cause, two that the defendant instituted the 577 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:20,479 Speaker 1: proceeding maliciously, and three that the proceedings have terminated in 578 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: favor of the accused. So, if, for example, some politically 579 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: motivated prosecutor charged you with a totally fake, made up 580 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: crime that you didn't do, just to punish you because 581 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: he didn't like you. But the jury saw through it 582 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: and they acquitted you. You could sue for malicious prosecution. 583 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: What he did was malicious, unfounded, and the proceedings terminated 584 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: in your favor, meaning you were not convicted. But that's 585 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: not what happened here. They were lawfully legally convicted by 586 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: This isn't a criminal appeal, right, They're not appealing the 587 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: conviction on the basis of improprieties at trial. This is 588 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: a civil lawsuit. I think they're choosing to interpret terminated 589 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: in favor of the accused to mean the pardon, that 590 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: the pardon was exonerative, and that the pardon was part 591 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: of the criminal process, thus ending it in their favor. 592 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: I'd always had the general impression that accepting a pardon 593 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: required admitting guilt, and I think that is a common belief, 594 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 1: but it might not be true. A nineteen fifteen Supreme 595 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: Court case is generally understood to imply that, but not 596 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: everyone agrees, and the most recent test of that theory 597 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: was a twenty nineteen case in the Tenth Circuit Court 598 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: of Appeals that held that it could convicted warp criminal 599 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: wasn't admitting he did it when he accepted President Trump's pardon, 600 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: so it may be a gray area. I'm thinking about 601 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: doing a minisode on those two cases, but don't help 602 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: me to it, and I didn't have time this week. 603 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 1: But I do have a plan to get a real 604 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: lawyer on the phone to answer some of our burning 605 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: questions about this particular legal quagmire. So I'm not a lawyer, 606 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: but for what it's worth. The current version of the 607 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: Frequently Asked Questions on the Department of Justice's web page 608 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: for the Office of the Pardon Attorney says this, a 609 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,879 Speaker 1: pardon is an expression of the President's forgiveness and can 610 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: be granted in recognition of the applicant's acceptance of responsibility 611 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: for the crime and establish good conduct for a significant 612 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: period of time after a conviction or completion of sentence. 613 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: It does not dignify innocence. So when the president pardons you, 614 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,359 Speaker 1: it just wipes out the negative effects of the conviction. Right, 615 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: So you are no longer convicted of that crime. You 616 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: can vote again, you can get guns again, you can 617 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,800 Speaker 1: serve on a jury again. You're no longer a convicted felon. 618 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,320 Speaker 1: If you're still in jail, you come out of jail. 619 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: If you still owe restitution. You don't owe any more restitution, 620 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: but you can't claw back restitution you already paid. And 621 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean the president is saying this crime never happened. 622 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: It just means you no longer have consequences for this crime. 623 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: But like I said, there are varying interpretations of whether 624 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: or not the act of accepting the pardon means that 625 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,800 Speaker 1: you are admitting guilt. I don't think anyone interprets pardons 626 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:05,080 Speaker 1: to be exonerations, but I don't know. I guess there's 627 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,919 Speaker 1: something for everyone out there. And I was really going 628 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole here reading legal journal articles about 629 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: the particulars on the issue when I realized it doesn't 630 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,799 Speaker 1: even matter. It doesn't matter if a pardon means you're 631 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: innocent or you're guilty. Because of the five plaintiffs in 632 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: this lawsuit, only one of them was pardoned, and Riekie 633 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: Tario received a full presidential pardon for his January sixth convictions, 634 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: but the other four didn't. They only had their sentences commuted. 635 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: So even if we're on board for this legal theory 636 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,919 Speaker 1: that the pardon made in Rike Tario innocent and thus 637 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: enables him to sue for malicious prosecution. The other four can't. 638 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: They're still guilty, their convictions still stand. They haven't been pardoned. 639 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: And I guess that fatal flaw on the plan must 640 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,360 Speaker 1: have occurred to their lawyer too, because shortly before filing 641 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: the lawsuit, those four plaintiffs Bigs Nordine, Pazola, and Real 642 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: all filed applications for full pardons. Those applications, which the 643 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: lawsuit claims are currently being considered, are inexplicably attached as 644 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: an exhibit to the complaint in full, unredacted. It has addresses, 645 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: phone numbers, email addresses, names of family members, including ex 646 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: wives and minor children. It has their god damn social 647 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: Security numbers. It's a genuinely shocking and dangerous act of 648 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,359 Speaker 1: negligence on the part of their attorney. But aside from 649 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 1: accidentally exposing four of his clients to identity theft, the 650 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: documents are pretty interesting. One of the pages of the 651 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: application asks the applicant to briefly describe the offense they 652 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: were convicted of, and under that it asks do you 653 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: accept responsibility for your conduct? Explain why or why not? 654 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: And to that question, Ethan Norden wrote, it would be 655 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,799 Speaker 1: untrue for me to accept responsibility for what I did 656 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: not do and really not possible. Dominic Pozzola conceded that 657 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: he may be guilty of trespassing, but when it comes 658 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,440 Speaker 1: to the felonies, I feel as though the prosecution of 659 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:38,400 Speaker 1: the felony charges were one hundred percent politically motivated. Zachary 660 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: Real wrote, I never denied that I thought the election 661 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 1: was stolen. I still believe that the election was stolen. 662 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: But I am happy to see President Trump is back 663 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: in office and looking forward to being a productive member 664 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: of society again. This pardon will help with that. That 665 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 1: was one sentence. It's just the one period at the 666 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 1: end of that for Zachary Reel, and both President and 667 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 1: member are spelled wrong. You know, no hate to the 668 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: man if he can't spell, but this is a pretty 669 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,320 Speaker 1: important document. Maybe get somebody to help you. Joe Biggs's 670 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: essay questions were apparently written on a separate sheet of paper, 671 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,799 Speaker 1: which is not included. I do hope they remember to 672 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,720 Speaker 1: include the attachments when they sent that to the pardon attorney. 673 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:25,439 Speaker 1: That would be so sloppy. On his application, Zachary Real 674 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: notes that he's currently living off of his savings and 675 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,919 Speaker 1: he really hopes he's not going to have to sell 676 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 1: his truth social stock to make ends meet. This case 677 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,399 Speaker 1: was only just filed on Friday, June sixth, so as 678 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm writing and recording this, no real time has passed 679 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: for any work to have been done on the case. 680 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: The government hasn't filed anything in response, and there's been 681 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,240 Speaker 1: no public comment from anyone involved, aside from Tario himself. 682 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I 683 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about my own experiences on January 684 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 1: sixth on an episode a few months ago, the episode 685 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: about Matthew Huddle, the January sixth defendant who was shot 686 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,800 Speaker 1: and killed during a traffic stop just days after receiving 687 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 1: his pardon. But surprisingly, writing this episode didn't really call 688 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,399 Speaker 1: to mind my own memories of that day. It did 689 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: remind me of another day, though it was a lifetime ago. 690 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 1: But do you remember September twenty ninth, twenty twenty. I 691 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,080 Speaker 1: do the days run together when you work from home, 692 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 1: but I remember the whole day that day because I 693 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 1: had a very weird day. I had to get up 694 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,320 Speaker 1: early and drive an hour to Richmond to go to court. 695 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: I'd been arrested earlier in the summer while covering the 696 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: protests against police brutality. It was a bullshit charge and 697 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 1: they knew it. But that doesn't really matter. We don't 698 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: have to get into it. And when I got to 699 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,879 Speaker 1: court that morning, they told me that they were going 700 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,040 Speaker 1: to drop my charge and they handed me something to sign. 701 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: You know, to standard procedure, sign this will dismiss your case. 702 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 1: Never sign anything you haven't read, because I read the 703 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 1: form and it said that by signing it, I was 704 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 1: admitting that I was guilty of a crime, and they're 705 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: still dismissing the charge. I wasn't going to be convicted 706 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: of it, but I was putting on paper that I 707 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: did it, which I didn't, So I balked. They backed down, 708 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: and I didn't sign it. My charge got dropped. Everything 709 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,560 Speaker 1: ended happily. It took another few months to regain full 710 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,359 Speaker 1: use and sensation of my left hand because they'd left 711 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,520 Speaker 1: me handcuffed in a folding chair in the jail parking 712 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,160 Speaker 1: garage for so long back in July. But that's not 713 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,800 Speaker 1: the point of the story, no, because my clearest memory 714 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,840 Speaker 1: of September twenty ninth, twenty twenty, was later that evening 715 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,160 Speaker 1: I was sitting on a friend's couch watching TV, and 716 00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 1: I nearly choked to death on my seltzer and I 717 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:00,920 Speaker 1: heard this. 718 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,360 Speaker 3: Are you willing tonight to condemn white subpremises and militia 719 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,479 Speaker 3: groups and to say that they need to stand down 720 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 3: and not add to the violence in a number of 721 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 3: these cities, as we saw in Kenosha and as we've 722 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:17,800 Speaker 3: seen in Portland. 723 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:19,920 Speaker 1: Do it? 724 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:20,719 Speaker 3: Ay? 725 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 2: I would say, almost everything I see is from the 726 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 2: left wing, not from the right wing. 727 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:25,880 Speaker 3: What do you do. 728 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 2: I'm willing to do anything. 729 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:29,839 Speaker 3: I want to see peace and do it, sir? 730 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,080 Speaker 1: Do it? Say it? Do you want to call them? 731 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 2: What do you want to call them? Give me a name, 732 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:41,960 Speaker 2: give me a stand back and stand by. But I'll 733 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,560 Speaker 2: tell you what. I'll tell you what. Somebody's got to 734 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,720 Speaker 2: do something about antifa and the left. 735 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: Stand back and stand by. Somebody's got to do something 736 00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: about the left. Won't someone rid me of these troublesome 737 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:01,600 Speaker 1: anti fascists? 738 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:01,919 Speaker 3: Right? 739 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,719 Speaker 1: I would love to know what the president of the 740 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,280 Speaker 1: United States and the leader of the fascist street gang 741 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,720 Speaker 1: that tried to steal an election for him, talked about 742 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,840 Speaker 1: for ten minutes on the patio of the President's private 743 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:22,400 Speaker 1: club last month, I really would. I don't think we 744 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,480 Speaker 1: ever will. But just a few weeks after that conversation, 745 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:33,480 Speaker 1: there's Enrique Tarrio boldly asking for one hundred million dollars 746 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:38,120 Speaker 1: from the United States government. I don't think he'll get 747 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: a hundred million, but I do believe he's going to 748 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,080 Speaker 1: get a payout. I'm not the only one who sees 749 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,200 Speaker 1: that on the horizon. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse tweeted a news 750 00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 1: story about the lawsuit, adding, expect a fixed sue and 751 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,560 Speaker 1: settle outcome with MAGA do OJ taxpayer resources to political 752 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 1: allies is their specialty. Now, this is pure speculation. This 753 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,320 Speaker 1: is my own personal opinion. It's not an assertion of fact. 754 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,920 Speaker 1: You're not facing this on anything concrete, and it has 755 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:16,359 Speaker 1: let me be clear my opinion. I don't think this 756 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,880 Speaker 1: is a real lawsuit. I mean, it's filed in a 757 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,960 Speaker 1: real court. It mostly conforms to the federal rules of 758 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,840 Speaker 1: civil procedure. It looks like a lawsuit. It quacks like 759 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 1: a duck, you know, but it kind of feels like 760 00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:37,480 Speaker 1: everyone involved knows that this doesn't need to hold up. 761 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,759 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to have a strong legal foundation. It 762 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,920 Speaker 1: doesn't matter that the guy they hired, has never won 763 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 1: a case and might be in jail by the time 764 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,880 Speaker 1: anyone's trying to argue emotion. It doesn't need to convince 765 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:57,080 Speaker 1: a jury. It's not really a lawsuit. It's an invitation. 766 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:02,400 Speaker 1: It's an outstretched hand waiting to be warmly clasped to 767 00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,560 Speaker 1: close a handshake deal. It opens the door for Trump 768 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,799 Speaker 1: to make good on his promise to make things right. 769 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,839 Speaker 1: They can just settle and write everybody a big fat check. 770 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:26,000 Speaker 1: The Proud Boys are standing back and standing by, and 771 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:45,799 Speaker 1: they might be about to get very, very rich. Weird 772 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,400 Speaker 1: Little Guys is a production of Kolsae Media and iHeartRadio. 773 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,040 Speaker 1: It's research, written, and recorded by me Molly Conger. Our 774 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,319 Speaker 1: executive producers are Sophie Lettterman and Robert Evans. The show 775 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,000 Speaker 1: is edited by the wildly town that Lardy Gaiken. The 776 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,920 Speaker 1: theme music was composed by Brad Dickard. You can email 777 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,120 Speaker 1: me at Weird Little Guys podcast at gmail dot com. 778 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,560 Speaker 1: I will definitely read it, but I probably won't answer it. 779 00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: It's nothing personal. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the 780 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,280 Speaker 1: show with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit. 781 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,400 Speaker 1: Just don't post anything that's going to make you one 782 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:15,440 Speaker 1: of my work little guys.