1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Tetra grammaton. 2 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty one. 3 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 3: August one eighty one we launched, and that world was 4 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 3: a world of no information. There were three TV networks, ABC, NBCCBS, 5 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 3: and they decided when you were going to see programming. 6 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 3: HBO had come along in the in the mid seventies. 7 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 3: There had been no really advertised to supported networks, which 8 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 3: of course MTV was, and there was an idea at 9 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 3: the time that the consumer wanted choice, which we know 10 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 3: is always true, and that instead of network programmers deciding 11 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 3: when you could see kids, programming, music, programming, news, sports, 12 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 3: you would go to these twenty four hour channels and 13 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 3: get it at any time. So you put together your 14 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 3: own array of programming the match your needs. 15 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: That was a really new thing. 16 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: Think of it as a poor man's on demand. I mean, 17 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 3: there's no technology for undemand then, so this was a 18 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 3: way where you're going to get choice. So Turner launched CNN, 19 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 3: A bunch of guys up in Bristol launched ESPN. Those 20 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: are in the seventies now, it was about nineteen eighty. 21 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 3: I guess along when we went there, we're all right 22 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 3: there together. 23 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: How many homes had cable at this time? 24 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: Think about fifteen million, and so we developed this idea 25 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 3: for a music service, all music. And I think the 26 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 3: music had been on TV off and on for years 27 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: and years, never particularly successful, and our thesis was it 28 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: wasn't successful because they kept trying to make music fit 29 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 3: the TV form, which was a narrative. 30 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: So with MTV said we're going to make TV fit 31 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: the music form, which is mood. Emotion makes you feel 32 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: a certain way. 33 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: Music's better than any drug for taking you to certain 34 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 3: moods or where you want to go. And you had 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 3: a generation that had grown. 36 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: Up with TV. 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 3: We were the first of the TV babies my generation 38 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 3: and rock and roll, but the two had never come together. 39 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 3: So the idea was we're going to put it together. 40 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 3: And there were all these little video clips that have 41 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: been produced. No one had been able to figure out 42 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 3: what to do with them, so that was the general 43 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 3: concept of what we were doing. 44 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: The venture was owned by Warner. 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: And American Express fifty to fifty called Warner AMEX. The 46 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: board of directors wouldn't aprove the idea, thought it was 47 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: way too risky. So he got a meeting with Jim Robinson, 48 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: who was the CEO of American Express. His lieutenant as 49 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: president was lou Gershner, who went on to fame at 50 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 3: Nabisco and IBM, and Steve Ross from Warner Communications David Horwitz, 51 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 3: you'll probably remember, off. 52 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: To the president Warner. 53 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 3: We got a meeting with him to pitch them the idea, 54 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 3: and we think the hard cell is going to be 55 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 3: the American Express. And inside Warner there's this other thing 56 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 3: brewing that the music company were saying, wait a minute, 57 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: if you do a music channel, we should do. 58 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: It, not that joint venture. 59 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 3: And so there was, you know, lots of turmoils and 60 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: dramas there always are. And toward the end of the meeting, 61 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 3: Jim Robinson, who is the chairman of American Express, looks 62 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 3: at Steve and goes. 63 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: I'm in for my ten million, Steve, how about you? 64 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 3: And he called the question and Steve goes, yeah, man, 65 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 3: And that was the way we got approval. 66 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: Amazing was that the first time you ever met Steve Ross. 67 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 3: Now I met Steve a couple of times before, and 68 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 3: Steve had David Horowitz sort of fell in love with me. 69 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: And David was responsible for the cable company and the 70 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 3: Warner MX joint venture. 71 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: And had brought me to meetings. 72 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 3: And Steve got as we launched him TV, got very 73 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 3: interested in it, and Steve wound up being one of 74 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: my great mentors. And Steve would you know, later put 75 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: his arm around me and just say come on with 76 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 3: me too. Whatever meetings had nothing to do with music 77 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: or MTV, but he was just let me in and 78 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: letting me see stuff and see how it worked. And 79 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 3: I had been involved with some of the other stuff 80 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 3: because originally I came over from MBC. The first channel 81 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 3: we were going to do was a pay service sort 82 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 3: of like an HBO. It was called the Movie Channel. 83 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 3: At that time, HBO is only on in prime time, 84 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 3: it was off the rest of the day really, so 85 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 3: we did a twenty four hour all movie service, which 86 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: said a great and then HBO realized what we were doing, 87 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 3: so they started what is called a fighting brand. I 88 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 3: had no idea what a fighting brand was, but learned 89 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 3: very quickly called Cinemax, and they made it cheaper to 90 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: the cable operator and they got more movies. So it 91 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 3: was just a rip off of what you were doing. Yeah, yeah, 92 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 3: obviously we proved that there was an opening. They came 93 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 3: in and so I had known Steve through the Movie 94 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 3: Channel and through what we were doing with the Movie 95 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 3: Channel and movies, but MTV is. 96 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: Really what sort of turbo charged my relationship with him. 97 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: It's an amazing story. I remember the impact it had 98 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: on my life. It felt like there was the world 99 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: before MTV and after MTV. 100 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: You were a kid at that time, and you know 101 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 3: what's interesting is it had some interesting ancillary benefits which 102 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 3: we didn't realize. The three networks controlled what you saw, 103 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,559 Speaker 3: and they made everything look like it basically was des moined. 104 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 3: Everything was Middle America. You didn't see what people in 105 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 3: New York were wearing or London. And when MTV came on, 106 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 3: suddenly all these kids across America got to see what 107 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 3: people in New York and la and London were wearing, 108 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 3: and fashions changed immediately. I think it was nineteen eighty four. 109 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 3: I got a CFDA awould, the Council Fashion Designers Award 110 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 3: for the impact MTV had on fashion. 111 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: Amazing. 112 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: And we also changed sort of the graphic look. 113 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: At the time we launched MTV, every graphic design looked 114 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 3: like Star Wars logos and you know, the car dealer, 115 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 3: everybody had it. And we came out with this a 116 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 3: radically different design and opened people's eyes to no, No, 117 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 3: it doesn't have. 118 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: To be the way you've said it has to be. 119 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: Tell me about the I want my MTV. 120 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 3: Well, the problem was that the cable operators really didn't 121 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 3: want to take MTV because they were at that time 122 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 3: charging companies for the access to the cable like twenty 123 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 3: five cents a month. We didn't have twenty five cents 124 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 3: a month. So we said, well, another idea. One of 125 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 3: the guys that worked for me was Harvard MBA and 126 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 3: was always whispering. 127 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: To me all the stuff. He goes, we should do 128 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 2: consumer pull and I go, what's that? 129 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 3: He goes, that's where you get the consumers to demand 130 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 3: the product instead of push distribution where you buy it. 131 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: I go, great, sign me up. And so we hit 132 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: upon this idea that we would come up with ad 133 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 3: campaign advertise MTV and that the cable operator them would 134 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 3: think they had to carry it because they said consumer outcry. 135 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 3: And a guy named George Lewis and a guy named 136 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 3: Dale Pond, who'd been my promotions director at WNBC, they 137 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 3: had an agency together. We hire them and they came 138 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 3: back originally with some spot that said America is becoming 139 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 3: a land of cable brats and bladh blah blah blah blah, 140 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 3: but embedded and they call your cable company and say, 141 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 3: I want my MTV. Well, Tom Freston was our marketing guy, 142 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 3: and John Sykes was our promotion guy, and Fred Seibert 143 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: was the on air look guy. They I remember they 144 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: all came over to my apartment on a one night 145 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: I was on Central Park West, and we go through 146 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: all this and we go, you know, I'm going to land. 147 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: At cable brats. 148 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: It's sort of cheesy, and then didn't connect, but that 149 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 3: I Want my MTV is exactly what we want, so 150 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 3: we sort of recrafted the whole spot to. 151 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: Be I Want my MTV. 152 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: And George Lewis had done a campaign in the sixties 153 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 3: called I Want My Maypo with Mickey Mantle and as 154 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 3: often happens, or repurposed it for I Want My MTV. 155 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 3: And we didn't have a lot of money, but we 156 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 3: would go market by market where they weren't carrying MTV 157 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 3: and we run this campaign and the kids would all 158 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: call a cable company and they would flood the cable 159 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 3: company and tie up all their phones and they go, okay, 160 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,119 Speaker 3: we'll put it on. And after about two or three markets, 161 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: we actually didn't have to put on. We just had 162 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 3: to threaten that we were going to do it because 163 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: everybody had heard and go, okay, we're getting read advertised 164 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: in your market. You sure you don't want to go 165 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: and put it on? Yeah, yea, yeah, we'll put it on. 166 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: And so that drove it. And it's interesting because MTV 167 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: was a sort of success with the consumer immediately, but 168 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: a dismal failure economically with advertisers and with the cable operators. 169 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 3: So we really had to go redo this sort of 170 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 3: business side of it. And that's ultimately how I went 171 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: from being the creative guy they had creative guy to 172 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 3: running the network. 173 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: So tell me about going from the creative guy to 174 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: the business guy. It's very different. 175 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 3: Hat They came to me and said, look, this thing's 176 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 3: not working. We projected we going to do ten million 177 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 3: revenue first year. I think we did half a million 178 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 3: dollars in alf revenue. Thought the cable operas were all 179 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 3: come flying, and you know, as we said, what they 180 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 3: want my MTV campaign didn't quite work out that way. 181 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 3: And I was doing the marketing, you know, all the 182 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: marketing and the creative stuff. 183 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 2: There was another guy who was doing all the sales stuff. 184 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: And they came to me and said, hey, Kit, do 185 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 3: you think you can run this thing? And of course 186 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: this every twenty eight or twenty nine year old ago igo. Yeah, sure, 187 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 3: And in my head, my calculus was I was so 188 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: sick of having to convince salespeople that I had a 189 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: good idea and they had this veto go, oh, we 190 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 3: can't sell that. I got to do that, So I go, hey, 191 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: I have total for creative freedom. Now I'm running this thing. 192 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 3: I can't choose anything. Of Course, what I failed to 193 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 3: realize was once I'm running the business side, I got 194 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 3: no time to be the creative. But that's sort of 195 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 3: how I made the jump, and I discovered I actually 196 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 3: loved the business side and it was just as creative 197 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 3: as the creative side, and bringing a lot of creativity 198 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: and a new approach and willing to take chances. And 199 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: by the way, not knowing too much turned out to 200 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 3: be a real benefit. 201 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like it's often the case like you 202 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: don't know what you don't know, and that works your advantage, right. 203 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: Right, But I also was so focused I knew what 204 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 3: we were trying to do. So I had this great prism. 205 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 3: It's great filter of what MTV was and what it 206 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 3: wasn't and I think every product has this. I was 207 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 3: the keeper of the vision, like I was the editor 208 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 3: in chief. I would say that belongs that doesn't. 209 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: It's not that that's a good idea, that's a bad idea. 210 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: They just they don't fit together. 211 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: And you're probably also better at managing and dealing with 212 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: creative people because you understood there absolutely you were not 213 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: a being counter no. 214 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 3: And by the way, I was still actively involved, you know. 215 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: Making that jump was just sort of opened up my 216 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: life and I began to see, oh, it all turns 217 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: into dollars and cents, and I love the profit motive. 218 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 3: My dad was nonprofit, was a minister, and I heard 219 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 3: many dinner table conversations, oh so, and so you just go, Wow, 220 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 3: it's really hard because you got to keep everybody happy, 221 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 3: and everybody's got conflicting agendas. In business, it's like it's 222 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 3: a profit. I mean, ultimately it's a business, and we 223 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 3: should get a return on investment. And that's the reason 224 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 3: somebody invest in MTV instead of a railroad because they 225 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 3: get a better return or they like likelihood's a better return, 226 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 3: and once you figure. 227 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: That out, you go, okay, well, let's sort of figure 228 00:10:58,640 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 2: this out. 229 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 3: And the advertising front, no one wanted to buy cable advertising. 230 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 3: It was like the agencies were like, no way, and 231 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 3: everybody thought that these ads supporting networks would never work 232 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 3: because the audiences were so small compared to the three 233 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 3: big broadcast networks, even though we were targeted. So we 234 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 3: figured out the agencies were probably not our friends. They 235 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: had no vest at interest. So like, if somebody spending 236 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 3: one hundred dollars on TV and they only have to 237 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 3: buy three networks, why would they want to encourage the 238 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: people to spend it on twenty networks the same hundred 239 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 3: dollars because it was just dribe their cost up, I 240 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 3: get it. 241 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 2: So we figured out what we've. 242 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 3: Got to do is we've got to go to the 243 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 3: clients and get them to demand it, and fortunately had 244 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 3: a wonderful guy named Roger and Rico who ran Pepsicola, 245 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 3: and Roger figured out very quickly kids loved this. 246 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 2: There were no ratings, they just had the user gut. 247 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 3: And by the way, Coca Cola didn't advertise on MTV 248 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 3: for sixty years because it was not measurable. At first 249 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 3: there were no ratings. Then when the ratings came out, 250 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 3: we said we didn't get their criteria. They needed sixty 251 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: five percent reach of the country and at three national rating, 252 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 3: we didn't have any of that, so forget it go away. Oh, 253 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: by the way, in that period of time, Roger and 254 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 3: Rico moved the market share the most it's ever been 255 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 3: moved before. After in Pepsi when he had an exclusive 256 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 3: on MTV Wow, and it was so powerful having that exclusive. 257 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: That Coke, if you recall, came out with the New Coke. 258 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 3: They thought they had a product problem. Yes, so they 259 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 3: developed a whole new product called New Coke. 260 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: Yes. 261 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 3: It turns out it wasn't that. It was that Pepsi 262 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 3: was advertising on MTV and Coke was missing. And when 263 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 3: Coke finally figured that out, they outspent Pepsi two to 264 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 3: one for the next ten years. But we went to 265 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 3: people like Pepsi, and the way we get pepsis not 266 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 3: by saying we buy some spots. It was like, we'll 267 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 3: do some great stuff with you. We'll do a special 268 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 3: about music and Pepsi. And it was really using our 269 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 3: creative chops, which I had in which our people had 270 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 3: to talk to advertisers in a different way, and we 271 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 3: would go to the movie companies so would say, hey, 272 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 3: let's do a world premiere of your picture. 273 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: And we did. 274 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: I remember we did prints and I forgot what was 275 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 3: that movie after Purple Rain? 276 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: After it was Under the Cherry Moon. 277 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 3: Under the Cherry Moon, and we did a contest where 278 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 3: people would send in and we'd pick one and we 279 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 3: did the premiere in their town. Turned out to be 280 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 3: Shared in Wyoming, and you can imagine prints and Shared 281 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 3: in Wyoming and all the MTV people descending. 282 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: On that town. 283 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 3: But we would come up with ideas that would cause 284 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 3: the advertising oh I want that, and then we say, well, 285 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 3: you got to spend a million dollars on media as 286 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 3: well to be able to get that, and they would 287 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 3: call the agency and said buy MTV. And so that's 288 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 3: the way we broke through, and we were the first 289 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 3: profitable basic cable network. We had the highest ad revenue 290 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 3: of any of the basic cable networks at the time. 291 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 3: You know, from our standpoint, we sort of cracked the 292 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 3: code on it. The other thing we cracked the code 293 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 3: on is how to do stuff cheaper. TV production was 294 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: very expensive. It was rooted in the past. When I 295 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 3: was at NBC, I did a TV show after Saturday 296 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 3: Night Live, sort of a little teaser for what MTV. 297 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: Became, and it was called album Tracks. 298 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: Ironically, my co host was a guy m Yarl Moone 299 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 3: called Lee Masters on the air at the time Amazing, 300 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 3: who was also doing the morning show at WNBC, and 301 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 3: the president of NBC, Herb Schlosser, loved me. 302 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: Said you're going to TV. I want you to get 303 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 2: some TV experience. Here, do anything you want to after 304 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live. Take this short time slop. 305 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 3: But in that process I could sort of see how 306 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 3: they were producing and it seems so slow and antiquated. 307 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 3: And NBC was bragging about the fact that they'd gone 308 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 3: from two operators for every video tape machine to one. 309 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: They cut the cost of people in half. 310 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 3: To run their video tape machines. When we launched MTV, 311 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 3: we had one operator for thirty machines. So we figured 312 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 3: out how to just take quantum. 313 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: Leaps and like, yeah, and efficiency. 314 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 3: Sounds quaint today, but back then, let's go to the 315 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 3: new tech. Let's use the new technology, not the old. 316 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: Let's think about things in a new way. And again 317 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 3: going back to the point you made, not knowing it 318 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 3: was our greatest gift and everybody and we were marked 319 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 3: at a couple of times. Is nobody at MTV had ever 320 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: done the job they had before? 321 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: In general, do you try to find people who you 322 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: think are smart and creative and who haven't done a 323 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: job before when you're looking for people? 324 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I am willing to do that. 325 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 3: And by the way, my big breaks in life were 326 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,239 Speaker 3: because people gave me the shot. 327 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: To do that. I probably don't do it as much 328 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: as I should. 329 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 3: It requires you really to get in and understand the 330 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 3: person and have faith in them. But I do think 331 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 3: every time I give somebody a job that's a big 332 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: jump from where they were. They are spectacular performers, and 333 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 3: often when you get people the same job for the 334 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: third time, the performance is pretty Listen to the rest 335 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 3: of this episode at tetragramaton dot com, slash Podcasts, or 336 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 3: on your favorite podcast app.