1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck, and there's Cherry, and it's the stuff 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: you should know. Okay, deal with it. Yeah, up your nose, 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: et cetera. Yeah. I just suddenly, you know how, I 6 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: stopped saying that quote mid quote because I suddenly felt 7 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: like an old dinosaur Chuck, and that probably nobody knew 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: what I was talking about. And I'm tired of feeling old, Chuck. 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Are you feeling old? I feel young. I'm glad to 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: answer your question. Yes. Okay, So hey, before we get started, Um, 11 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: this is gonna be a really good episode. Uh, and 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: I want to enhance it by saying, I finally saw 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: I got to see my niece's movie that I've been 14 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: talking NonStop about. O Exit. It's amazing. It's such a 15 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: great I would call it a popcorn thriller. Um. Like, 16 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like high art. It's not trying 17 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: to be high art, but it's it's like really well 18 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: done in the script, doesn't have a bunch of like 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: holes in it. Uh. It doesn't like they've trimmed off 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: all the fat. It moves along really nicely. Um, and 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: once it gets going, it keeps like getting going again 22 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: and like these lurches forward and just it does it 23 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: doesn't go off the rails. But it's just like, oh 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe this is going on right now. 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: And then to be able to see my niece Mila 26 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: act as like the kid in this, to see her 27 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: like do this stuff, it's just it's amazing Tod first 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: of all, and I'm I'm like removing, I've done everything 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: I can to remove any subjectivity as a proud uncle, 30 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: and like actually watch her acting and like the performance 31 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: she gets and it is great. It's amazing. She does 32 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: an amazing job. She has to do a bunch of 33 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: different stuff. She gets like tortured and harrass and beat 34 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: up and everything. Um, it's actually really graphic movie in 35 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, but like delightfully if you ask me, Um, 36 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: and she did. She did a great job. And I 37 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: thought the whole cast did a really good job too, 38 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: including great It is good, including Havannah Rose Lou by 39 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: the way, but yes it is. It is a great movie. 40 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: And I recommend anybody who watches our movies to watch 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: the movie and it's on It's on Hulu right now streaming. 42 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: It's called No Exit Awesome. I can't wait to watch it. 43 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: I've been traveling. I went on the road for a 44 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 1: bit once again. See more Bonnie Prince Billy and Matt 45 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: Sweeney Superwolve shows. Matt Sweeney is that the girlfriend guy? 46 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: What the guy who had that hit in the nineties 47 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: called Girlfriend? No, he's local that was that was a 48 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 1: great album. Um, I can't think of his name. No, 49 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: Matt Sweeney is a genuine stuff you should know listener 50 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: and super smart, awesome guy, and we're kind of pals now, 51 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: so he's always kind enough to hang out and he 52 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: always sends me really good ideas for the show. But 53 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: that's not my ninth Bonnie Prince Billy show in the 54 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: past like a year and a half. I'm going to 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: where he goes. That's really cool. He didn't come to Atlanta, 56 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: so I just I'm hitting the road and along with 57 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: our good friend Joey c R. He came on this one. 58 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right. I saw that post on Instagram. 59 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: That's awesome to see Joey's looking good. Yeah, he he 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: says hello, and uh, if you want to see pictures 61 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: of this in my Travels and Travails. You can follow 62 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: me to Chuck the Podcaster on Instagram. I'm sorry you 63 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: had travails. Uh what I say travails? Did I not 64 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: say travels? He said travels and travails? No, no travails, 65 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: only good good It was only good times. I'm sure 66 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: I've told you before, but I always love rubbing it in. 67 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: Did I ever tell you that I saw Bonnie Prince 68 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: Billy doing karaoke at our friend Toby's wedding years back? 69 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: I don't know that. You told me that do you 70 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: do a song? It was? It was some like sweet 71 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: old country song he didn do wet with I think 72 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: maybe his wife. Oh my god. I mean he's the best. 73 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: He's my favorite vocalist. He's to me, the best singer 74 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: that literally in music history. And a cool dude. I 75 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: can tell you because I've been in the same room 76 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: with them plenty of times. Me too. I was four 77 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: ft from him the other night. That's really cool. Anyway. 78 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: Shout out to Sweeney, Shout out to no Exit. And 79 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: now let's talk about a time when the US government 80 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: was not above uh planning false flag operations that were 81 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: crazy and ludicrous and planning potentially to assassinate the leaders 82 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: of other countries hundreds of years ago. Oh actually no, 83 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: this was way back in the nineteen sixties. Yeah, planning, 84 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: that's the operative word here is planning doesn't mean that 85 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: like any false flag operation was ever carried out, at 86 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: least by the United States government. There's been plenty of 87 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: false flag operations carried out, most recently, um apparently by Russia, 88 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: who was trying to accuse Ukraine of doing like sabotage 89 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: embombing across the border as a pretext for invasion. And 90 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: that's generally the point of a false flag operation, which 91 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: we should probably define it. But it's basically where you 92 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: dress up as the um somebody from the country that 93 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: you want to invade, have them or you assault your 94 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: own like border crossing, your own military installation, your own railroad, 95 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: and then you publicize to the world how that country 96 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: attacked you, and now you're gonna have to go in 97 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: and invade in in you know, for your own your 98 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: own welfare and the welfare of your own country. That's 99 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: a false flag operation, that's right. Staging any kind of 100 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: a fake operation. Uh. The it originally came about the 101 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: term false flag from pirates would fly a flag of 102 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: a friendly country two lureships closer than they would attack them. 103 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 1: But since then and Russia is big on it, they've 104 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: I mean, Japan has done this, Germany has done this, 105 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: but the Soviets and Russia, UH, like you said, they're 106 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: they're still gangbusters for this kind of thing. Yes, I 107 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: also think it's just a p s A. If you 108 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: are really um feeling sympathetic or um, you know, absorbing 109 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: information that makes you see things through Putin's view, you're 110 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: probably being manipulated online. Just why you may want to 111 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: you may want to look a little deeper into that 112 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: and pull your head out of that particular rabbit hole. 113 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: All right, So let's go back in time, uh and 114 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: talk about Operation north Woods. But to talk about Operation Northwoods, 115 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: we have to first talk about who did this one 116 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: for us? By the way, who put this together? This 117 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: was Olivia Joint Olivia Gershn, great work. We need to 118 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: talk about Cuba and what the threat that that country 119 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: started to pose or the seeming threat that country started 120 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: to pose to the United States, UH, in the late 121 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties early nineteen sixties. Yeah, because Castro came to 122 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: power ninety nine, and in doing so he became the 123 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: first UM. He established the first communist regime in the 124 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: Western hemisphere. Uh in America's backyard, as it would later 125 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: be put. And this is not settled well with the 126 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: Americans because at the time we were UM I guess 127 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: our military, um brass, our intelligence community, basically everybody in 128 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: charge with security for America. UM was of the of 129 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: the of the ILK that like, we should be invading 130 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: other countries that are communists and toppling those regimes and 131 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: fighting communism wherever it pops up. No, no countries too small, 132 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: no countries too large. We need to invade them and 133 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: fight them and remove those communists and and probably install 134 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: like a democratic government from that point on, which is 135 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: kind of ironic. By the way. That was Matthew Sweet, 136 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: That's what I said. What did you say, Oh, Matt 137 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: Matt Sweeney. Matt Sweeney. But it came to me when 138 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: was when you were talking about Cuba, Matthew Sweet, because 139 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: it's a great record. Yeah, I can't remember the song 140 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: how it goes, but I know it was a good song. 141 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: I don't think I ever heard the record had a 142 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: cool video too. Yeah, while you sing it. Yeah, I 143 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: love somebody, remember that. That's it. I think I need 144 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: somebody to love Okay, and then the chorus is, uh, 145 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: you need to get back in the Little Friend. Oh yeah, Yeah, 146 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: it's a pretty good song. It's not as good as 147 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: I remember just by the Superwolf record, it's better. Um alright, 148 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: so good set up on Cuba. Uh, if you want 149 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: to go back, well, um, I don't even know how 150 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: much we need to go over it, but if you 151 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: want to go back and listen to our I think 152 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: pretty great episode from November called the Bay of Pigs disaster. 153 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: This was sort of one of the first things that 154 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: happened in the nineteen sixties when UH Eisenhower approved this 155 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: boondoggle of an operation UH known as the Bay of 156 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: Pigs Invasion that just went just about as wrong as 157 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: it could go on every level. Yeah, and so like 158 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: we were setting up fake invasions of Cuba supporting exiles 159 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: invasions of Cuba. UM RFK and JFK were obsessed with 160 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: Cuba and in particular removing Castro from power. Cuba was 161 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: a big deal for a number of reasons, we should say, 162 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: and one of the leading reasons that Cuba was a 163 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: problem for the United States is because they were worried 164 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: Castro is going to serve as an inspiration for other 165 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: countries in Latin America, especially the economically depressed ones um 166 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: where they're like, yeah, all this this capitalism running around 167 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: where Americans own most of our national operations and exports 168 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: and we're getting very little in return, Communism might seem 169 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: pretty appealing to them, So Castro might serve as an inspiration. 170 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: And if there's like that domino effect like they were 171 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: worried about in Southeast Asia that happens in Latin America 172 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: thanks to Cuba, all of a sudden, America's American businesses 173 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: are gonna be out a lot of money, Americans are 174 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: gonna be out a lot of the bananas that they've 175 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: come to love thanks to Edward Burney's and we would 176 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: also lose access to things like the Panama Canal and 177 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: other things we need. So it wasn't just like a 178 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: like a ideological problem. It was a practical problem too. 179 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: But the biggest problem, the biggest problem that a communist 180 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: Cuba post to the United States is that it was 181 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: now an ally with the USSR. America's swore an enemy. 182 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: The other polar power of the Cold War would now 183 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: had a country that would be willing to let them 184 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: set up nuclear missile basis a hundred boles from Florida. 185 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: That was truly the big problem with Cuba and Castro, 186 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: That's right. And because of that kind of from the 187 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: very beginning, the US very quietly started thinking about like, hey, 188 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: should we assassinate this guy? Should we depose this guy? Um, 189 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: And there were all kinds of crazy like poison cigars, 190 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: like mafia hitman, that kind of stuff was being talked 191 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: about behind closed doors, including um, Florida Senator George Smathers, 192 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: great name, Uh, he proposed assassinating Castro, was a good 193 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: buddy of Kennedy's and brought it up during the nine 194 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: presidential campaign and include which included the plan included a 195 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: false flag attack at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base. And he 196 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: claims that Kennedy basically was like a put something down 197 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: on paper and I'll take a look. And um, so 198 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Kennedy wasn't you know, if you believe this, he wasn't 199 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: initially adverse or averse excuse me, to the idea of 200 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: taking care of the problem. If you know what I'm saying, Yeah, 201 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: that's how obsessed he was with removing Castro. The problem 202 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: was this after the Bay of Pigs. That was what 203 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: nine teen sixty one, I believe, Yeah, it was April nine. Um. 204 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: The one of the huge problems with aside from America 205 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: having an enormous amount of a on its face for 206 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: being outed for supporting a failed coup of Castro, Um, 207 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: was that Kennedy had been led to believe by his 208 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: military and intelligence advisors that there was going to be 209 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: an uprising, that like these exiles showing up having maken 210 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: a couple of wins against the Castro regime was going 211 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: to like awaken the Cuban people who would want to 212 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: go back to, you know, the way things were before 213 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: the Communists came along and took over the country, and 214 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: they're being uprising that top of Castro. That was the thing. 215 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: They weren't necessarily trying to take over the country. They're 216 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: trying to incite a revolution, and that did not happen. 217 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: Was supposed to work. Yeah, even though Kennedy had been 218 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: told up and down by these advisors. He was a 219 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: brand new president at the time, and he had been 220 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: told up and down by these advisors that that was 221 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 1: going to happen, and it didn't happen. It never materialized, 222 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: and so he lost full faith in any military or 223 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: intelligence advisor around him at the time. From that point on, 224 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: so he found he needed to surround himself with new 225 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: people to take on this this Castro Cuba problem. And 226 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: the point man he put on the whole thing, he 227 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 1: basically said, I want you to to be in charge 228 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: of getting rid of Castro, you know, figuring out how 229 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: to do it without sending in military people was his brother, Bobby. 230 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, Like you said, Kennedy still had that 231 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: new president smell, and Bobby still had that new attorney 232 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: general smell. You were very very patient and waiting for 233 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: your chance to use that, and I think it paid 234 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: off in aces. Okay, good, I mean I try to 235 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: get in there. But you know, uh so, Bobby, it 236 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: was attorney general, like I said, And that isn't you know, 237 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: attorney attorney general or attorneys general um or would it 238 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: be attorneys generals? They usually don't get involved in stuff 239 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: like this, but he was his his brother, and so 240 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: he trusted him, and he ended up overseeing something called 241 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: Operation Mongoose, which was kind of this crazy idea that 242 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: they could disrupt life in Cuba such that, uh with 243 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: you know, sabotage, with disorder, with espionage, um. And it 244 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: would all be just in the name of stirring things 245 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: up with the Cubans themselves again, not like putting in 246 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: Americans dressed as Cubans and stuff like that. Uh. They 247 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: thought they could get this done. Um. The CIA was 248 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: going to be involved, the State Department was going to 249 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: be involved, UM, the Defense Department, what we had at 250 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: the time, the US Information Agency, and basically they were 251 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: going to get together and get this done. And it 252 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: was going to be headed up by a general from 253 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: the Air Force named Edward Landsdale, who was interestingly a 254 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: former AD exec and a CIA operative, and he was 255 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: sort of in charge along with Kennedy of getting this 256 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: thing planned and this Operation Mongoose again. Yeah, So Operation 257 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: Mongoose is that operation that like all the wacky stuff 258 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: that you have ever heard about getting rid of Castro, 259 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: like a poisoned skin suit for him to scuba dive in, 260 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: or exploding cigars, all that is Operation Mongoose. And like 261 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: you're saying, the point was two kills a poison cigar. 262 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: I don't think it was an exploding cigar. That's like 263 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: a novelty, right, Well, that was the level they were at. 264 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: Somebody brought up joy buzzer once, right, they were like, 265 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: exploding cigar won't kill him, like yeah, but it'll humiliate him, right, 266 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: and we'll finish him off with the joy buzz um. 267 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: So that that's all of that fell under Operation Mongoose. 268 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: And like you said, they were trying to basically make 269 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: life for the average Cuban so weird and disjoined it 270 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: and uncomfortable without anybody realizing the Americans were actually behind 271 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: all these seemingly unrelated things that they would just get 272 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: rid of Castro themselves. And that was the reason why 273 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: they weren't just like, well, we can't just go in 274 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: and kill Castro is because again they were friends with 275 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: the Ovit's, and there was a chance that um JFK believed, uh, 276 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: if they did in Vague Cuba, they would set off 277 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: World War three. Like that was a very real fear. 278 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: On the other hand, there was also this ticking clock 279 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: going at all moments and among some people, some advisors 280 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: to the White House and security advisors, it was like 281 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: deafening the sound of this clock ticking. That the longer 282 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: we waited, the more chance there was going to be 283 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: that the Cubans were going to say, hey, so if 284 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: it's come, build a missile base here. They hadn't yet, 285 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: but it was on the table and everybody knew it. 286 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: So they Americans needed to do something about Castro and fast. 287 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: So the idea that the Americans could come up with 288 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: these plots to get the Cubans to overthrow Castro themselves. 289 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: That takes a lot of time, it might not pay off. 290 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: And then looming in the background, getting ever closer, are 291 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: these Soviet missile bases arriving in Cuba any day? Now? 292 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: They just knew it. All right, that's a great suspenseful 293 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: lead up to our first break. We're gonna come back 294 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: and find out what happened with Operation Mongoose right after this. 295 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: All right, so you set the stage very well. My 296 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: friend General Lansdale is running the show. It was a 297 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: pretty impossible situation to try and do this with the 298 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: Cuban people without any real power, basically like he didn't 299 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: have any real teeth in this. He was overseeing a 300 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: bunch of different agencies. Uh And in February of sixty two, 301 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: he basically put forward a plan that was supposed to 302 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: get Castro out of office by October or even though 303 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: he said that was pretty optimistic. And some of these 304 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: ideas were pretty crazy. Um. One of them was that 305 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: there's these things called star shells, which is kind of 306 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: how you how you light up the night sky during wartime. 307 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's like you shoot it for as 308 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: it were mortar around, but it's not mort around. It 309 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: just lights things up for the night vision goggles or 310 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: back then. I guess, well, I don't know if they 311 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: had them back then, but it's like that one scene 312 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: at night, that battle, that night battle in Apocalypse Now, Yeah, exactly. 313 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: So one of the ideas was for a submarine, the 314 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: US submarine to fire these star shells off the coast 315 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: and convinced the Cubans that the Second Coming of Jesus 316 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: was was happening and that Jesus was against Castro. Yeah, 317 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: they were going to shoot it off on All Saints Day, 318 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: and that was based on the premise that the Cubans 319 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: were deeply, deeply Catholic and that they would see this 320 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: as a sign. And these are just ideas. Again, they 321 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: never did this. All of these are just ideas, but 322 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: they were ideas that were literally put forth in writing 323 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: by the US government to the President. So it's okay, 324 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: So the clock is ticking on Lansdale, and I read 325 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: that basically every week he would go to the Oval 326 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: Office and asked to be taken off of this assignment. Yeah, 327 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: he was apparently a golden child. Like you said, he 328 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: was an ad executive CIA operative. He basically shaped the 329 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: geopolitical map of Southeast Asia by himself in the fifties. Um, 330 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: and they, the Kennedy's, were like, hey, you seem pretty 331 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: great at this. Let's see what you can do at Cuba. 332 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: And he just ran into a brick wall in Cuba, 333 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: in no small part because, like you were saying, the 334 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: Kennedy's didn't give him any teeth, any authority. So he 335 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: had to beg for everything from everybody from this this 336 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: multi agency task force that he was in charge of. 337 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: It was a terrible, terrible thing. And then again that 338 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: clock is ticking. So in addition to coming up with 339 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: ways to get the Cubans to topple Castro, Lansdale also 340 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: was trying to figure out how to justify over action 341 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: and actual military invasion. And so he asked the Joint Chiefs, 342 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: who were one of the agencies that were part of 343 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: the task force. He oversaw for some some info on that, 344 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 1: like what would it take do you think for the 345 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: United States to be able to justifiably invade Cuba and 346 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: remove Castro as its leader? Problem solved? And again like, 347 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: how can I scare the president bad enough? Kind of yeah, 348 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: right exactly, so they they well, no, Also, like I 349 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: think he was also trying to figure out what we 350 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: could do to make that happen, you know what I'm saying, 351 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: Like could we also like push Cuba into a corner 352 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: and make them do something and be like, oh, well, 353 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: we have our hands are tied. We have to invade um. 354 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: But the reason that it would scare Kennedy too is 355 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: like he was against military action. You just got to 356 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: keep that in mind. After the Bay of Pigs he said, no, 357 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: We're not invading Cuba. So now Landsdills trying to figure 358 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: out basically how to how to change the President's mind. 359 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: And I guess, yeah, like you were saying, if it 360 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: meant through scaring him, whatever it took, he just wanted 361 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: out of this stupid assignment where he's trying to figure 362 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: out how to trick the Cubans into overthrowing Castro. Right. 363 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: So this this is what this briefing was all about 364 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: in February of nineteen sixty two from the Joint Chiefs 365 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: of Staff to basically put put it forth that this 366 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: cannot be ignored. The quote was, the communist regime in 367 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: Cuba is incompatible with the minimum security requirements of the 368 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: Western hemisphere. Um. I mean that's like that sentence kind 369 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: of kind of says it all like where where he 370 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: it is incompatible having him in power with the safety 371 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: of the Western hemisphere, So we gotta get rid of him. Um. 372 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: They said that that, uh, we can't count on like 373 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: you see what happened with the Bay of Pigs. There 374 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: is no insurgents happening in Cuba that we can count 375 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: on basically at this point, and we need to intervene directly. 376 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: And I don't think Russia will even like be supermad 377 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: at this point yet. Yeah. Yet, that was the thing 378 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: because they said that Cuba is not part of the 379 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: Warsaw Packed, which is kind of like the Soviet Union's 380 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: version of NATO UM. And since they weren't a member 381 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: of that, the Soviet Union had no obligations to back 382 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: them up if they were invaded in them by America, 383 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 1: and the fact that they didn't have any military bases 384 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: there and they also didn't have any reason to back 385 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: up Cuba. So it was possible that if they invaded 386 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: Cuba to capital to top le Castro, they the Soviets 387 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: would not be drawn into it. Maybe JFK was wrong 388 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: about it sparking World War three. They didn't know that 389 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: for a fact, but that was their assessment of it, right, Yeah. 390 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: So uh. On February second, Brigadier General William H. Craig, 391 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: he was the Joint Chief of staffs rep for Operation Mongoose, 392 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: He submitted this memo to Landsdale that said it was 393 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: called possible actions to provoke, harass, and disrupt Cuba. And 394 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: this is where some of these, uh, really kind of 395 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: wacky ideas start coming forth. Um, some not quite so acky, 396 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: like the Mercury mission was about to happen with John 397 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: Glenn later that month, and they were like, Hey, if 398 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: anything goes wrong with this thing, we could basically manufacture 399 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: proof that Cuba was behind it and that would give 400 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: us a reason. Yeah, that was one of the more 401 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: reasonable things, and it really was. There was Operation Free ride. 402 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: The idea that they were going to drop one way 403 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: tickets to um like Mexico City over Havana was just like, 404 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: just leave, that's amazing. I guess that was when if 405 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: Castro had no one to rule, then maybe he would 406 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: just leave himself. Castro would just shut down the airports 407 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. Yeah, And that was not very well 408 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: thought out. It wouldn't have worked. Now. There was also 409 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: Operation Good Times too, which was they were going to 410 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: produce a fake photo and this is at a time 411 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: when it was hard to do that, at least make 412 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: a convincing one of Castro presumably naked, hanging out with 413 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: with beautiful women in a bunch of food at a 414 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: time when you know, the Cubans were having a lot 415 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: of trouble putting food on their own plates. And this 416 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: picture was gonna have Castro surrounded by food and women 417 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: and they were going to caption it my ration is different. 418 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: And they thought that that would just that would be 419 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: yet for cast Strow. So yes, these are the ideas 420 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: that they were coming up with. But when they when 421 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: they kind of turned there, I think when they said, like, wow, 422 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: these are the ideas were coming up with. This stuff's 423 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: not gonna work. There's no counter revolutionary insurgency to spark 424 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: in Cuba, Like, what are we gonna do? We need 425 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: to figure out how to how to get our army 426 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: in there, right, get army in there, and then uh, 427 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: that kind of set the table, all of us set 428 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: the table for Operation Northwoods, which was put forward by 429 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: Army General. It's so funny. I'm glad that that Olivia mentioned, uh, 430 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: Doctor Strangelove, which had not come out yet, because some 431 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: of the names in this are very like you can 432 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: kind of tell that Kubrick and the writer were very 433 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: much influenced by like real stuff that was going on, 434 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: some of the ridiculous names from Dr Strangelove. And then 435 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: you know later on when we get to like what 436 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: was actually in Northwoods that you can only hear it 437 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: as if it was read from Georgie Scott, General Buck Turgenson, 438 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: like you can hear him saying these things. But Army 439 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: General Lyman lim Nitzer was this guy's name, and he 440 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 441 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty. Very hawkish to say, the least right wing 442 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: guy who uh, I mean, this guy he wanted to 443 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: attack everybody at all times. He wanted a preemptive nuclear 444 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: war launched against the Soviet Union. At one point that 445 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: was a proposal that he took to Kennedy. He proposed 446 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: that in writing. He said, we here's a plan to 447 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: to for a surprise attack against the USSR. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. 448 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: He was that kind of guy. He was one of 449 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: those ones that I mentioned earlier. Fight communism everywhere it 450 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: pops up, any time it pops up, Just invade and 451 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: take over. That's that was like, is his plan. And 452 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: this guy's running the Joint chiefs of Staff. So Kennedy 453 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: the head, No, he was Eisenhower appointee. Kennedy didn't like him, 454 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: and he didn't like Kennedy, especially after the Bay of Pigs. 455 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: He was one of the people that Kennedy did not trust. 456 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: And then he thought Kennedy was reprehensible for not ordering 457 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: an air strike to back up the Bay of Pigs 458 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: exile invaders. Um. So there was no love lost. But 459 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: Landsdale was It sounds like kind of appropriately the guy 460 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: to come up with Operation Northwoods, which was, as far 461 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: as we have is in documentary evidence, the only false 462 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: flag operation the United States ever came up with. Okay, 463 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: is that true documented evidence? I don't think there's ever 464 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: been evidence of anything like this. I mean, there's a 465 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: there's a historian who wrote about it later, a journalist 466 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: who said it was probably the most corrupt document the 467 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: United States government has ever come up with, which is 468 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: really saying something. I mean, I'm not so I'm not 469 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: Pollyanni here. I don't think the US government as of 470 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: course clean hands and is just you know, looking out 471 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: for the good of everybody at all the time. Like 472 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: I think it's done some deeply shady stuff. But I 473 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: also personally think that Operation Northwoods may have been, as 474 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: far as planning goes, the pinnacle of that shape. Yeah, 475 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: I believe it too. March five, the Joint chiefs uh 476 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: Lansdale issued requested them to provide a quote brief but 477 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: precise description of pretext which they would consider would provide 478 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: justification for US military intervention in Cuba. Was passed along 479 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: on March five. I'm sorry, marulimnitz Or passes it to 480 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara, and uh, this is something 481 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: that McNamara, you know, years later was kind of like, 482 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, was that a thing? I don't really 483 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: remember that. Yeah, he said, I'm not sure that was true. 484 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: He was a scumbag himself too. Yeah. I recommend the 485 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: Great Great documentary by Errol Morris when he talks to 486 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: Robert ma namera basically before Yeah, for nine minutes straight 487 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: or however long it is. It's crazy what he got 488 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: him to say and to and he tried to get 489 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: him to see and McNamara is like, does not compute 490 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: to It was really fascinating stuff, it really was. I 491 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: didn't realize that was Errol Morris. I should have guessed though. Yeah. Um, alright, 492 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: so the Midnight Cowboy, what I wanted to throw you? 493 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to sniff you off the case. You sure did. Uh. 494 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: So this memo was called Justification for US Military Intervention 495 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: in Cuba. That was the official title, uh, signed by 496 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: limnitz Are in the Joint Chiefs. And you know this, 497 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: this was basically, uh here, what do you think of 498 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: this plan? Um? It's you might think it's wacky and 499 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: we've never done anything quite like this officially, but here 500 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: it is President Kennedy. Right. Kennedy said, or um, let 501 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: me see that ain't no bad no that us so, um, 502 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: he looked it over and said, nope, thank you very much. 503 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: I appreciate you going all this trouble, but I reject 504 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: this out of hand. We're not going to to create 505 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: some sort of UM mayhem, blame it on the Cubans 506 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: and then use it as a pretext to evade We're 507 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: just not doing that. And right when that happened, right 508 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: when he realized that that this is not going to UM, 509 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: not going to be implemented, limits are UM, tried to 510 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: get all documentation of this destroyed. He wasn't successful, as 511 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: we'll see obviously because we're talking about it now, but 512 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: he was, oh god, I signed that thing. I thought 513 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: we were all going to do this. And in fact, 514 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: in the Operation Northwood's memo, he talks about how he 515 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: anticipates that other agencies that were all part of Operation 516 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: Mongoose Task Force UM would be submitting similar proposals, which 517 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: are basically ideas for how to make it look like 518 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: Cuba attacked the United States so that we can invade Cuba. 519 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: Turned out he was the only one who put his 520 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: name on a document that he then handed into the 521 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: president that was that it's sort of like the scene 522 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: in like an army movie where they asked for volunteers, 523 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: and everyone but one person takes a step back and 524 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: then one guy's left standing there. Have you ever seen 525 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: there's a video of some dogs that did that to 526 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: another dog. There's three dogs, I think they're all little poodles, 527 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: and one of them, Peter pooped on the staircase and 528 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: there the mom was making the video is asking them 529 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: like who did this? And right when she says who 530 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: did this, the other two look at the third one, 531 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: and then she said who did it? And they take 532 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: a step back and the ones is standing there still. 533 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: It's one of the most amazing dog videos I've ever seen. 534 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: I saw the Nature video the other day that was 535 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: a deer, uh that you know how they had like 536 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: fake deer and things in the woods. That was a 537 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: real deer that had mounted one of these fake deer. 538 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: Have you seen that? I've seen pictures, you know, on 539 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,719 Speaker 1: the internet. So it has mounted this deer and it's 540 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: kind of going at it, and the fake DearS um 541 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: sort of from the neck up, it's piece together, that 542 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: whole section falls off. This deer jumps off of the 543 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: back of that thing, and like I wish there was 544 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: like a human narration going on. Because it looks at 545 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: like it's kind of circling this thing, looking at it like, yeah, 546 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: what was I just doing? Uh this thing too, so 547 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: we figured out it was fake. I killed you. I'm sorry. 548 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: It's good stuff here, Yeah, Uh, should we take a 549 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: break before we can get into the absurdity of Operation Northwoods? 550 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: All right, we'll take our second break and we'll talk 551 00:31:36,520 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: about some of these crazy wacky ideas right for this, Chuck, 552 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: I think you know, we're we're calling these crazy wacky ideas, 553 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: and they are crazy wacky ideas, like you shouldn't do 554 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: stuff like false flag operations and in vague countries based 555 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,959 Speaker 1: on them. Um, but they're also I think only crazy 556 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: wacky because they were in the sixties, they were directed 557 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: at Cuba, which makes it seem even wackier in hindsight 558 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: now today. And then lastly, um, they weren't implemented. Had 559 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: they been implemented, they would there be in no way, 560 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: shape or form crazier wacky. They'd be you know, abhorrent. 561 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,479 Speaker 1: But we're kind of laughing about this stuff now, but 562 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: it's really not funny. No, That's what I'm trying to do. 563 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: Stop laughing. Yeah, sorry, I'm in a good mood. I'm 564 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: glad to hear it. All right, So let's talk about 565 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: some of these false flag operations again signed by General 566 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: Liman Limnitzer. That's right. We already talked about sort of 567 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: attacking Guantanamo. Uh, there are things called over the fence attacks, 568 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: which were uniformed Cubans basically, you know, riding near the bases, 569 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:14,239 Speaker 1: throwing fire bombs inside the base, setting aircraft on fire. Uh, 570 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: kind of giving the illusion that that Guantanamo is under 571 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: direct attack. And these would probably be exile Cubans who 572 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: were sent from Florida down to Guantanamo to pose as 573 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: Cuban nationals under Castro who were attacking. Um. But they 574 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: would be paid and then remember that movie Wag the Dog. 575 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: Oh sure they would probably be whacked afterward. Yeah, that's 576 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: the thing though, And this is if you read, if 577 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: you read the fine print, Aside from one of them, 578 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: these are all basically elaborate ruses where no one actually dies. Yes, 579 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: that's very important that I know a lot of people believe. 580 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: I was gonna say suspect, I think believe is as 581 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: much more correct word that that September eleven was a 582 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: false flag attack. Um, some people that. I mean, I 583 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: get that, I get I get believing that and why 584 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: you would believe that. Um, but if you look at 585 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: Operation north Woods, they they go out of their way 586 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: to basically stage death. People don't actually die. They weren't 587 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: part of the plan killing people. And then let alone 588 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: the idea of killing thousands of Americans, the just the 589 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: fact that that many people died. I don't believe that 590 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: anyone has ever held power in America that is capable 591 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: or willing to kill that that many Americans all at once. 592 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: I just don't believe it. I don't. I don't think 593 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: the world works that way. I think the world can 594 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: be a very very dark place. I don't think it's 595 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: that dark at least that there's like that depth of 596 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: betrayal from you know, the American government to the American people. 597 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: I just I don't believe it. I agree, So I 598 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: just thought we probably we should at least mentioned in 599 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: two thousand one is a false flag operation, that's right. 600 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: Another one from this era was the remember the Main incident, 601 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: which was basically, let's just blow up one of our 602 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 1: ships in Guantanamo Bay or or another vessel um near Cuba. 603 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: We could like they they proposed sinking ships and all 604 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: kinds of crazy plans like that. The one that really 605 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: speaks to me as far as George C. Scott reading 606 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: it from uh DR Strangelove is this direct quote, we 607 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: could sink a boatload of Cubans on route to Florida, 608 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,720 Speaker 1: real or simulated like they could they it could be dummies, 609 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: or we could actually really do this with real humans. 610 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: That was the one that I was like, Okay, there's 611 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: not there's not like like they're that actually does overtly 612 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: say yeah, we could kill some people. The other ones, 613 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: the ones that I'm like, Okay, they're really going out 614 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,479 Speaker 1: of their way to make sure nobody is actually hurt, 615 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: are ones like um. There was one where they were 616 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: going to uh um, send a like a charter plane, 617 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: like actually like a commercial airline or from the US, 618 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: probably from Florida en route to somewhere, carrying um American 619 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: tourists off to vacation like Jamaica, Venezuela, Guatemala, all the 620 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: vacation hotspots, right, and they were going to release actually 621 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: two planes at once, identical planes, except one of them 622 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: was going to be a drone remote controlled plane. And 623 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: then they were going to reroute the one with the 624 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: actual people in it and then send the drone along 625 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 1: over Cuban airspace and blow it up and then blame 626 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: it on the Cubans. Yeah. So if you'll notice in 627 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: that plan there's like all those people are safe, they're 628 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: all fine, Like they're all they're they're safe. This is 629 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: all a decoy um, Like that's that's that's what this 630 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: this operation was was, Like it's still wouldn't just they 631 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: wouldn't say or they weren't. They weren't saying like, yeah, 632 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: we'll just blow up a planeful of tourists, Like it 633 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: just doesn't happen. That doesn't happen. Yeah, But I mean 634 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: some of the stuff to me, like has the could 635 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: serve as setting the stage for things getting out of 636 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: hand and leading to real bloodshed, Like they had ideas 637 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: for a simulated Cuban backed assault on like Dominican Republic 638 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: or something using fake aircraft, you know, painted up to 639 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: look like Cuban aircraft. Uh. I mean, all of a sudden, 640 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,479 Speaker 1: something like that gets out of hand and real lives 641 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: are being lost when it's misinterpreted. Yes, And I mean 642 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: that's a really good point. And also, like the whole 643 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: basis of this is like, so we can invade Cuba, 644 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: and when we invade Cuba, there's going to be a 645 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: lot of loss of life and bloodshed from that invasion too. 646 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: So even if we went out of our way to 647 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: make sure that people who were in the false flag 648 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: operation didn't actually get hurt, somebody's eventually going to die 649 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: because of this false flag. The idea is that this 650 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: guy came up with. Yeah. Another idea was a fake 651 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: attack on a plane, like a US Air Force plane 652 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: in international waters. So basically that would be a pilot 653 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: who was flying, as you know, under an alias. They 654 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,240 Speaker 1: would broadcast over the radio that they've been jumped by MIGGS, 655 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: which was I guess this the Soviet fighter jets, I 656 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: saw top gun, I know this stuff. Uh, And it 657 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: would fly I guess under the radar at a low 658 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: altitude and land uh safely and then stored. The pain 659 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: would be um, repainted, given a new tail number, and 660 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: then a submarine would drop plane parts into the water 661 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: where it supposedly happened so they could like pull those 662 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: things out of the ocean show the world again. Totally fake, 663 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: totally fake. Um. There were other ones where like they're 664 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: like well, maybe we could injure Cuban exiles in Miami, 665 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: like assault them and blame it on the Cubans, um, etcetera, etcetera. 666 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 1: Like basically anything you could think of, uh, that could 667 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: give America a reason to say, look, this Castra regime 668 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: is unpredictable, unstable, and they're now attacking us. Um, we're 669 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: going to have to invade. Uh. That was the point 670 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: of Operation Northwood's ideas. But it had a bit of 671 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: a stroke of genius that was kind of hidden in there, 672 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: A little bit that I thought was was kind of 673 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: well put. It was using a number of these different 674 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,240 Speaker 1: things making them seem through you know, a separation of 675 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: of in time and space, making them seem like un 676 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: related events. Also staging other events too that didn't necessarily 677 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: have anything to do with anything, that kind of like 678 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: give cover and camouflage the actual events and the goals um. 679 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: And that if you put it all together, the US 680 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: could be like, look at how crazy this Castra regime is, 681 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: We're going to have to invade. I thought that was 682 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: as far as unhinged documents go. I thought that was 683 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 1: a little bit of sanity shining in it. Yeah, I 684 00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: mean I think they should have dropped those one way 685 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: plane tickets. That was that was my favorite idea and 686 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: all this stuff. Uh, so you know, we know that 687 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: Kennedy didn't accept this proposal. The Cuban missile crisis unfolds 688 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: in October sixty two and Operation Mongoose was sort of 689 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: fully laid to rest and Lansdale for his efforts. He 690 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: was replaced um by a man named Sterling Cutrell, who was, um, 691 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: he wasn't like an insider for the for the Kennedy clan, 692 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 1: and so he was a little more cautious about everything. Um, 693 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: they were still you know, I think the Joint chiefs 694 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: had the idea, Like they didn't put this idea to 695 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: bed completely. They put Operation Mongoose, Operation Mongoose Mongoose down, 696 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: but they still didn't like put to bed the idea 697 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: that like, hey, maybe we should still provoke Cuba and 698 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: see if we can like set them up to invade. Um, 699 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: like that went through sixty three. All the way through three, 700 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: the Hawks were just trying to figure out how to 701 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: get it done. Uh and it it obviously didn't happen. 702 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: And what's somebody pointed out in one of these the 703 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: articles that were the sources for Olivia's article was like 704 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: Castro's still there. He outlived all these guys. Uh. And 705 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: I think it was in like the nineties or the 706 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: early two thousands when the article was written. There like 707 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: he's still there, He's still giving seven hour speeches and 708 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: like all these people are long dead. Um. And that 709 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the case. Like America and Cuba just 710 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: entered this kind its own, like kind of mini Caribbean 711 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: Cold War with tons of sanctions against Cuba and um 712 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: limits on travel, um. And you know, I think the 713 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: average American would just not really understand why. They just 714 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: know that you that Castro was a communist, and you 715 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: know that was all you needed to know to play 716 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: sanctions on Cuba. Um. And we even further would have 717 00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 1: no idea whatsoever that Operation Northwood ever happened, was ever 718 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: proposed if it wasn't for Oliver Stone movie movie JFK. 719 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: And that a neat little bizarre footnote. Yeah, it really is, 720 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: because like he said, limits are tried to get this 721 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: thing completely destroyed, not even like hey can we bury this, 722 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: Like let's destroy it. There was an investigative reporter named 723 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: James Banford who wrote a lot about this to call 724 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: it the most corrupt plan ever created by the U. S. Government. 725 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: And if not for Oliver Stone sort of that JFK 726 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: movie is so popular, uh for like Americans after that 727 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: calling for the release and like opening of records. Um, 728 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,839 Speaker 1: we we may never have known. So hey yeah Alie Stone, Yeah, 729 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 1: he got an Act of Congress passed through his movie. 730 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,399 Speaker 1: That's how popular that movie was when it came out. 731 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: It'd be like like passing the Hobbit Act or something 732 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: back in like two thousand seven. To never make another 733 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: Hobbit movie would be that act o um or another 734 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: eight hour be Eatles documentary. How about that ouch? Uh? Well, 735 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: since Chuck said out everybody, that's it for Operation Northwoods, 736 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 1: which means it's time for a listener mail. And I 737 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 1: mean just hostility to the Beatles there at the end. 738 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: You didn't see that coming on? Outright hostility. I get 739 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: to Peter Jackson link. But all right, I'm gonna call 740 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,919 Speaker 1: this from a night shift nurse doing great work. Hey guys, 741 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 1: my husband recently introduced me to your podcast about two 742 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: years into the backlog and loving it. I started with 743 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: your most recent pod, uh and work backwards. But my 744 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: husband scrolls through and picks one at random Russian roulette style, 745 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: which seems insane to me. I've been trying to figure 746 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: out if our listening style says anything about our personalities. 747 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,879 Speaker 1: I would say I'm a little more methodical and he's 748 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: more spontaneous in life, So maybe there's something to that. 749 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: So lindsay, uh, one percent. I mean your husband is 750 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: flying by the seat of his pants. It sounds like 751 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 1: fast and loose. He's like, yeah, let's hear what they 752 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: have to say about stupid grass. Yeah, you know what 753 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: we had to say A lot we did. That was 754 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,879 Speaker 1: a long episode, and you know what, we've talked about 755 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: this before. We there is no wrong way to listen 756 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: to any show, including stuff you should know. I we 757 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: personally sort of endorsed the sandwiching idea, which is, if 758 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: you're new to the show, listen to the most recent 759 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: release because that way, sometimes they're timely, but um, at 760 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: least you're in the know about current jokes and things 761 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: were referencing and uh, if we have live shows going on, 762 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: like people miss out on kind of information release uh, 763 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: and then see sandwich. So you listen to the most 764 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: recent and then you pick one from the back back catalog, 765 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,359 Speaker 1: the deep Web. No, no, no, not the deep Web. No, 766 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: so we've endorsed that. But there's no wrong way to listen. 767 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: You can be one of those two times as fast 768 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: play our voices, two times as fast weirdos. I think 769 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,840 Speaker 1: that's wrong. That's the too. But someone that's wrong just 770 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: hit download, you know, I'm just teasing. No, it's right. 771 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 1: However you listen. It's great. It's weird. I think to 772 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,759 Speaker 1: listen to us as if we were the chipmunks. But yeah, 773 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: I think it's funny though too. If that's your jam, 774 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: then go for it, I says, I think it's funny 775 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: though too. It's gonna be like four times when they 776 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: get to happen, right, or maybe we should do this, 777 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: would you, John Wayne? No, but it sped up at 778 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: two times. It sound like myself, right, Yeah, that wasn't 779 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: John Wayne. That was great. You just brought a smile 780 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: to my face. Good, all right, let me finish this 781 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: up anyway. I'm a night shift nurse. I listen to podcasts, 782 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 1: especially on my way and from work to decompress for 783 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: my shift. Thank you for keeping company on my drive, 784 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: keeping me awake after working these long hours. Fund your 785 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: voice of soothing yet engaging. Really admire that, uh you 786 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: can do that and admit when you were wrong as well, 787 00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: which is such a hard thing to do in these 788 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: polar se times. That is from Lindsay Johnson MSN r 789 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,399 Speaker 1: N nice. Thank you, Lindsay doing God's work out there. 790 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: We appreciate you, and we appreciate your husband also for 791 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: introducing you to us. I don't know what he's doing, 792 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: but hey man who whatever he's doing is fine with me. Agreed. Um, 793 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: If you want to be like Lindsay and get in 794 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: touch with us, we would love that. You can send 795 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,800 Speaker 1: us an email to Stuff podcast at i heeart radio 796 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of 797 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,439 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit 798 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 799 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.