Speaker 1: Wine Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast.
Speaker 1: On this episode of Wine Down, we have Nick Vale
Speaker 1: coming on the show. Uh. Did you guys watch him
Speaker 1: at all on The Bachelor or Bachelorette? I don't watch
Speaker 1: the show, if I'm being honest, but I did see
Speaker 1: seven not one episode. I haven't watched one episode I have.
Speaker 1: I saw some of his episodes of his Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I don't usually watch the show nothing, not once, Not
Speaker 1: one episode of any of them, Bachelor, Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise,
Speaker 1: Bachelor in Volcano, whenever all of them have been. I
Speaker 1: don't even remember. But I have not watched anything. Can
Speaker 1: I ask a question? Back in two thousand seven, I
Speaker 1: did a short stint on a reality TV show called
Speaker 1: road Rules. You on road Rules, and after that very
Speaker 1: short career with reality TV, I am all set. You
Speaker 1: don't watch any reality I really don't. Kardashians once in
Speaker 1: a while, but that's really it. Kardashians are so good, obsessed,
Speaker 1: they're so good. Bible Bible um screaming um. Uh. We're
Speaker 1: gonna get so much hate for like the liking the Kardashians.
Speaker 1: I'm just getting out. Have you? Are you up? Today
Speaker 1: on the did you not did you watch the first episode? Yeah? So,
Speaker 1: did you not just like feel for Chloe and she's
Speaker 1: so skinny? Yes, Yeah, I feel so bad for her.
Speaker 1: I feel like she, like I know where is so strong,
Speaker 1: but to go through all of that twice. I know
Speaker 1: Papa don't know anything about that publicly, and the timing
Speaker 1: of all it's crazy. Yeah, I feel for her. I know.
Speaker 1: It was the tape on the floor with the box
Speaker 1: in the closet when she was loading the boxes in
Speaker 1: the closet. In the tape where I just really had
Speaker 1: a moment. I think where I started to cry was
Speaker 1: or feel just like awful for her was when she
Speaker 1: said I know, she's like, I'm not ready for people
Speaker 1: to say yet that I'm stupid. Like, I get it,
Speaker 1: you know, she's like to hear those comments. She's like
Speaker 1: when she started crying about that, I was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the magnitude and volume of what she hears.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I just think that she was completely duped.
Speaker 1: I think that he was so good, like so many
Speaker 1: of them are. Well, that's the thing that's they're so
Speaker 1: good at that. And I think if you go back
Speaker 1: it's just they're they're so good at just saying well,
Speaker 1: it's not gonna happen again, or like, ah, do you
Speaker 1: know that we were trying for a third right before
Speaker 1: I found out? I think, so, yeah, we were going
Speaker 1: to have a third, Like we even had a meeting
Speaker 1: with an IVF doctor. Wow. But it's I think they
Speaker 1: do that just like with Tristan, I think because it's
Speaker 1: like they wanted, they want they because they know you
Speaker 1: want Chris said, she goes. I think she wanted to
Speaker 1: keep to keep her, And that happened too with you
Speaker 1: know Jason. I mean, the same situation. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's when I think back to that, I
Speaker 1: was like, holy crap, Yeah, I mean we yeah, but um, Nick,
Speaker 1: though he has a new book out, let's not tell
Speaker 1: him I've never seen him before. You just did. But
Speaker 1: it's great. Well I don't want him to feel that way. Yes,
Speaker 1: I always find I think that you know, um, that's okay,
Speaker 1: And we don't all watch the same things and it's
Speaker 1: not I'm sure. What I think he's kind of known
Speaker 1: for now is his podcast. He's the host of The
Speaker 1: Vile Vile Files Um and he's got a new book
Speaker 1: out called Don't Text your ex Happy Birthday. I can
Speaker 1: get on board with that. I have a question, have
Speaker 1: you guys ever texted your ex happy birthday? Not? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm in a relationship with someone else, so yes, but
Speaker 1: not when you're in a relationship. Yeah, okay, I can't.
Speaker 1: I remember wanting to, but I can't remember if I
Speaker 1: actually did. I probably didn't. It worse though, when you do,
Speaker 1: When you don't get that like a happy birthday, that feeling,
Speaker 1: you're just setting yourself up. You know, when you do it,
Speaker 1: you're setting yourself up for a world of heartbreak. But
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go with you have yesterday. No, uh no,
Speaker 1: I'm I think after my stint of the thing that
Speaker 1: happened this summer with UM kind of going above with
Speaker 1: birthday stuff. Oh, I don't know. I just I'm kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know what? Yeah, no, Um. Can you
Speaker 1: believe I haven't heard from him in two and a
Speaker 1: half on this answer, yes, like at all. Not The
Speaker 1: last thing I heard from this guy it was a
Speaker 1: black heart was the conversation was I will let's we'll
Speaker 1: set up dates to see each other, And the next
Speaker 1: he's like, I'll know in the next few weeks a
Speaker 1: time to get back together. And then I had sent
Speaker 1: like a picture like a week later, and then I
Speaker 1: got like the black Heart but nothing. This was after
Speaker 1: like the conversation, right, this was um you know, like
Speaker 1: during that conversation was like I'll yeah, He's like, I'll
Speaker 1: want to like get together and he's like, um, I'll
Speaker 1: let you know in the next few weeks, like like
Speaker 1: a time to like I'm like and not I'm not
Speaker 1: back on the app. Yeah, yeah, he's getting together with someone.
Speaker 1: We never left the app. I don't think you forgot
Speaker 1: all the reasons. So it's funny because one of the
Speaker 1: things in next book is like kind of talking about
Speaker 1: the player and there, Um, what was it? Where is
Speaker 1: it that? Oh, well, it's one of the things I
Speaker 1: want to talk to about training our pickers. He goes, Yes,
Speaker 1: dating is hard, and they're so many things about it
Speaker 1: that are beyond our control, which is why it makes
Speaker 1: it so important to control what we can Our choices,
Speaker 1: our decisions are communication and the dates we go on
Speaker 1: and the people we agree to go on them with.
Speaker 1: That means refining our pickers. It's interesting, your picker is
Speaker 1: the part of your brain, call it a muscle or
Speaker 1: a tool if you want that. You used to evaluate
Speaker 1: who we are going to date, who we are going
Speaker 1: to invest more time in. Have you been stretching that picker? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, we've we talked about it. We did not
Speaker 1: have a good oh um. But no, it's pretty cool
Speaker 1: because his book like has all these different questions about dating,
Speaker 1: love and sex, and um, like yeah, there's I'm I'm
Speaker 1: excited to to chat with him about that. And did
Speaker 1: Nick Nick was a bachelor. He was on he was
Speaker 1: on two seasons of the Bachelorette. He was on Andy
Speaker 1: Dorphan season and he was runner up, and then he
Speaker 1: was on Kate lim Bristo season and he was runner up.
Speaker 1: So he was runner up to both girls. And then
Speaker 1: he became the Bachelor, the Bachelor, the Bachelor later on.
Speaker 1: It was like a couple of seasons maybe later. I
Speaker 1: don't know that any titled the book runner Up. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a key title, but I think runner up. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be like I just renamed your books. Nice to
Speaker 1: meet you, let's talk about your brandname. But we've done
Speaker 1: we've we've done um, you know, questions last two weeks.
Speaker 1: So it's only you know. I'm there to ask him
Speaker 1: some questions, but yeah, his whole book is like um.
Speaker 1: One of the questions they asked him is why do
Speaker 1: men tell women things just because women want to hear it?
Speaker 1: People pleasers? I don't know that's a good question, he says,
Speaker 1: because it's something he says, because they want short term gratification.
Speaker 1: That's way better answer than yeah, I'm excited to talk
Speaker 1: to Nick. Do we want short term gratification? No, but
Speaker 1: they think we do and that's the problem. Okay, well
Speaker 1: then we're gonna is it m ratification or is it there?
Speaker 1: I feel like we're going to have to die. I'm curious.
Speaker 1: Another one is thoughts on reaching out to a guy
Speaker 1: who's been ghosting me for the last two weeks. You're
Speaker 1: not allowed to answer this one. I just I would
Speaker 1: just not reach out to the guy that's goes to
Speaker 1: do for the last two weeks. I really like his answer,
Speaker 1: you're ready to hear it? Yeah, so interesting to hear
Speaker 1: a guy's perspective. If he wanted to be found, he
Speaker 1: wouldn't disappear. Yeah, it's just not so complicated. It's real.
Speaker 1: And if they like a girl ghosting, I would say
Speaker 1: there probably is more. There can be more to it,
Speaker 1: but not, guys. I think the hard thing too with
Speaker 1: that is like because of the born Jewish guy or whatever,
Speaker 1: that like stings to know because I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: wasn't and then you don't because all my stuff, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I wasn't chosen, I wasn't good enough. I wasn't and
Speaker 1: I know it's not me, and it's like it was
Speaker 1: It's all. He's an impossible human being. Well, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: going to be one too. That's he's gonna be a
Speaker 1: tough one for life. He never to herself, Oh I
Speaker 1: forgot about I thought you said, great, other one you
Speaker 1: got ghosted? Which one your life Jewish guy? You know?
Speaker 1: He technically was like, I'll, you know, reach out to
Speaker 1: you and to let you know in the next few weeks.
Speaker 1: Like I thought that was someone else. There's funny Jewish
Speaker 1: m I didn't like the other I can't. I wish
Speaker 1: I could just share what I called him. Well that's
Speaker 1: my problem. I know him as a different name. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you guys want to know what his nickname was?
Speaker 1: I won't say his name name, but his nickname on
Speaker 1: the Queendom chat the whole entire relationship was by blank
Speaker 1: by his name like b y e um, why has
Speaker 1: feeling not cute enough or good enough become something so
Speaker 1: common social media? I didn't have anything nice to say
Speaker 1: because we have too much access and ability to constantly
Speaker 1: compare ourselves to others? Yep, um. Do you believe that
Speaker 1: time heals all wounds? Oh? M hm ja did married
Speaker 1: women on the right side, Like, I say, really, I
Speaker 1: think that it helps. I think the time always helps
Speaker 1: the further you get away from something. But I think
Speaker 1: that it's always still a little bit of a wound
Speaker 1: for change. Well, so this is what I would say
Speaker 1: in this answer. Sure, but it doesn't mean it still
Speaker 1: won't need scarce. Yeah, sure, no, I said so in short,
Speaker 1: I think it does. I really do. I think that doesn't.
Speaker 1: I think it's a yes, and oh you would and
Speaker 1: I know, my auntie, but I do. I think it's
Speaker 1: a yes. And like yes, I do believe time because
Speaker 1: it's like we've all moved past things that are really hard,
Speaker 1: but they left a scar. Like, yes, time does heal wounds,
Speaker 1: and it left a scar. Yeah, so it's not healed. No,
Speaker 1: a wound is open. Mm hmm. I think it might
Speaker 1: be in an open section of my life. Talk to
Speaker 1: us KB no, no, no, all as well. Nothing to
Speaker 1: see here. No, I just feel like it's always still there.
Speaker 1: So it feels like a idea, but it's not as
Speaker 1: heavy like That's like I was like in bed covers
Speaker 1: over my head. Time. The further you get away from
Speaker 1: it heals, but I don't think it completely heals. It doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's not open. You're not bleeding when a wound. You
Speaker 1: are not. You're not in the emergency room. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just a law firm of Cat and Christend. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's fine, we've healed or just a scar. But it's
Speaker 1: do you see what I'm saying that I really need
Speaker 1: to drive home in a relationship, Yes, you were right.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you a black cart any minute, and
Speaker 1: I goes to you for four and a half months.
Speaker 1: Um Actually, I just thought of something else, going to
Speaker 1: maybe bring up that happened the other day. Let's do so.
Speaker 1: I was like we should sometimes I like to be
Speaker 1: the pot star. When you see that face, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know we're onto something good. Um M,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna help. I'm gonna hold on that. I don't
Speaker 1: want you to hold Can we hold it? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I have to just get my words. I don't like
Speaker 1: it when we pinned things holding we pinned the last
Speaker 1: one for a long time. Oh, this is interesting. I'm
Speaker 1: sick of feeling like a backup plan for their boredom
Speaker 1: and loneliness. Then stop answering the phone advice, don't answer,
Speaker 1: don't answer. You control who you spend your time with,
Speaker 1: not them, right Mick for president? Everyone at my heart
Speaker 1: wants you. So y'all know, I've been like casually talking
Speaker 1: to someone I'm not saying who yet not committed committed. Um,
Speaker 1: And something happened the other day where, um, you wonder
Speaker 1: what's a flag and what's something that is? And for
Speaker 1: as much as I can raise my botox eyebrows I
Speaker 1: am doing, you can't see me something that like because
Speaker 1: you just wonder because I'm I am. The reason that
Speaker 1: I haven't jumped all in is because I'm terrified of
Speaker 1: you know, the bamboos moment, the like I don't want
Speaker 1: to fail, you know, and just again like I want
Speaker 1: to just like really, I'm like I'm just being very
Speaker 1: cautious and just like observing like crazy, like a lot
Speaker 1: of times, like he'll say, you know to me, like
Speaker 1: what are you thinking? And I'm just like I'm just observing,
Speaker 1: like I'm just kind of sitting back and like watching.
Speaker 1: So something kind of like happened the other day. But
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's a flag or if it's a
Speaker 1: just something to be cautious of, or if it's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's just like kind of the start of like getting
Speaker 1: comfortable and like a tell. But it could be because
Speaker 1: it's like I feel like I've like, don't I want
Speaker 1: to share things because it's like some things you can
Speaker 1: be like, oh that is a flag and like I
Speaker 1: should have shared those things early on another things, So
Speaker 1: share all. So we were going to go somewhere that
Speaker 1: he invited me to and I said, what time do
Speaker 1: I need to be ready by? The answer I got
Speaker 1: was four thirty five the latest. So in my brain
Speaker 1: I think five, because five the latest. If it was
Speaker 1: leaving it for thirty, it would be four thirty, and
Speaker 1: it's five is the latest. You don't tell Kreamer like
Speaker 1: my family has a late time too, but they don't
Speaker 1: ever get to know it. Well, here's the thing I
Speaker 1: don't write. You don't usually say it's a secret. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like you you all know me. I'm on time,
Speaker 1: so you don't need you're not women are given a
Speaker 1: five latest, then five is always gonna be the latest.
Speaker 1: I was the late. I'm going to take my time
Speaker 1: getting ready. Yeah, I'm gonna do my thing. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: check in my Instagram while I'm getting ready, I'm gonna FaceTime.
Speaker 1: I'm going to do a few stories. You're gonna FaceTime
Speaker 1: me what you're jogging with your beautiful sports bra. And
Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna like take my time because I
Speaker 1: heard four thirty five the latest. I didn't make that up. Okay,
Speaker 1: like that is what it's typed as well, probably, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, or women, we know what we hear. I
Speaker 1: didn't just make up five? Right? Was this over the
Speaker 1: phone or in person? In person? Okay? I was like
Speaker 1: her or advance so um, so I could sense a
Speaker 1: little agitation when four five rolls around? When did he
Speaker 1: get here? There? What are we fool? Let's just say
Speaker 1: four Okay? Well, first of all, well we were together
Speaker 1: the whole day, so I need the kids that day.
Speaker 1: So he was like at my house. Okay, I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's like coming to pick you up, and
Speaker 1: he showed up at four thirty and you weren't ready.
Speaker 1: I'll say this, like I had gone for a run
Speaker 1: with a friend. I met up to watch the football
Speaker 1: game leisurely about the day. Yeah, it was in my
Speaker 1: day off, right, So I'm like, I'm gonna go for
Speaker 1: a run with a girlfriend. And then he was watching
Speaker 1: football with a friend. So I met at the bar
Speaker 1: to go watch them, you know, the Michigan game, and um,
Speaker 1: watch the game, and then we kind of went back
Speaker 1: to you know, to get ready. But I was like,
Speaker 1: well's let's go to my house and gratty or whatever. Okay,
Speaker 1: so getting ready and again I'm face timing my mom um,
Speaker 1: and he's not said anything at this point. Okay, He's
Speaker 1: probably like can you please just get ready by four thirty?
Speaker 1: So five doesn't have to be the latest, then say
Speaker 1: four thirty I don't need okay anyway, anyway, technicalities of these,
Speaker 1: So when for fifty comes around and this is something
Speaker 1: and it was I guess it was a slight trigger
Speaker 1: from me because just like I don't like to be late,
Speaker 1: nor did my ex husband, we are like me and
Speaker 1: Katherine were always early, were on time. Whatever. When we're not,
Speaker 1: we get stressed. I get it. Well, I could kind
Speaker 1: of sense the pacing of this person, and I'm in
Speaker 1: my mind, I'm like, I got ten mount ten minutes,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I'm early, I've got
Speaker 1: ten minutes early. And he's like, you're about ready, and
Speaker 1: I go like he's kind of said it, and like
Speaker 1: you're bout ready. And I could sense like a little
Speaker 1: bit of like a a tone, like a little bit
Speaker 1: of a annoyance, and I go, I mean, yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: be ready in like five minutes. But it's it's four
Speaker 1: fifty and I've got you said five. He was no,
Speaker 1: I said four thirty. Oh no no no no no,
Speaker 1: oh no, no no no. And so you know me, cat,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna defense up too. Yeah, I know what I heard.
Speaker 1: I heard four thirty five the latest? Yeah, did you
Speaker 1: say four thirty five? No? And so I was like,
Speaker 1: you know you said, I was like, yeah, but you
Speaker 1: said four thirty five the latest, So like if you wanted,
Speaker 1: and so I got a little if you want to
Speaker 1: leave a four thirty, just you should have said four thirty.
Speaker 1: And in his defense, I was a little I got
Speaker 1: a little defensive. I got a little like because I
Speaker 1: was because my ex would also be like like, let's go,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I hate feeling I hate feeling rushed,
Speaker 1: which is why I always ask hours in advance so
Speaker 1: that I don't feel rushed, because I don't like feeling rushed.
Speaker 1: It just sends like waves in my body. That's not
Speaker 1: good for me either. I get angry. I don't. I
Speaker 1: just don't. I like to take my time, okay, and
Speaker 1: I don't even need an hour or two to get ready,
Speaker 1: but if I have it, I'm gonna take my time.
Speaker 1: Well sure there's face times and football games and runs
Speaker 1: to have. Yeah, So I'm like, I'm just so anyways,
Speaker 1: I get a little defense and he's like it's it's
Speaker 1: all good. Let's just like let's just go, and I go,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to drop it. And also I've
Speaker 1: got four more minutes, and I'm like, but I just
Speaker 1: don't understand, like I know what I heard and like
Speaker 1: you said five the latest, so like you know, I
Speaker 1: just don't understand, like why, like you don't need to
Speaker 1: give me like a prep time or whatever. Um, And
Speaker 1: he's like, well, no, I did say, and it's like
Speaker 1: you knew this event was important, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I understand it's important. I understand why word what we
Speaker 1: had going on today, but I also told you you
Speaker 1: at like and he goes, I just like, you've been
Speaker 1: so hot and cold, and I go, what what do
Speaker 1: you mean? How have I been hot and cold? He's
Speaker 1: like I don't know. He's like, you just seem like
Speaker 1: distant today, and I was like, huh, like I've just
Speaker 1: been and like doing my and then then I get
Speaker 1: when I feel suffocated or like, because I'm like I
Speaker 1: still love like my like freedom of like you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you mean? I was like, I
Speaker 1: went for a run and then I met you at
Speaker 1: like the thing, and I'm like is that not enough?
Speaker 1: So then I start to get like and the poor
Speaker 1: guys like trying to be like I'm sorry I have
Speaker 1: said that. Like I just was like, and I go,
Speaker 1: if you thought I was being hot and cold, don't
Speaker 1: passively throw something. Be like, hey, are you okay? I
Speaker 1: just want to check in with you. Just grab me
Speaker 1: and like hug me and be like I just adore you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But that was like the only thing that has happened
Speaker 1: in the last like I'd say, like two and a
Speaker 1: half or some months that I've been like, is it
Speaker 1: hot and cold because you're not like doating or hanging
Speaker 1: on him? Um? Yeah, I mean again, I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: very like, alright, I'm like, no, but I like this.
Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering if he feels like it's hot
Speaker 1: and cold because it's not like super all over him
Speaker 1: or something. I have so many thoughts. First of all,
Speaker 1: I do not and gets a flag personally, I don't.
Speaker 1: I think you'll are getting to know each other right now,
Speaker 1: and now you know that this is something I think
Speaker 1: that he probably I'm gonna put words in his mouth.
Speaker 1: He probably in his mind was like, Hey, if you
Speaker 1: can get ready by four thirty, that would be awesome.
Speaker 1: But if you're running behind, it's fine if we leave
Speaker 1: by five, But when you're taking your time and your
Speaker 1: face time and you're not, he sees that, and you're
Speaker 1: not doing your best to get ready by the time,
Speaker 1: in his mind, would be the best time to leave.
Speaker 1: That would have been if that were me and his
Speaker 1: That's what I would have met, and you would have
Speaker 1: probably been annoyed, and I would why isn't she after Hey, Kramer,
Speaker 1: we got five minutes hey Kramer, like, I would you know,
Speaker 1: say something, but you are still getting to know each other.
Speaker 1: So he's over here going do I say something? Do
Speaker 1: I not like you? After this episode he'll never say
Speaker 1: latest can say that's what That's what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't say it in that way, like just
Speaker 1: give the time, especially for you. You're going to be
Speaker 1: on time. So I just think you are getting to
Speaker 1: know each other now. Then when two people get defensive,
Speaker 1: we know that. Then it's just like you can't even
Speaker 1: they talk to each other. You're both being defensive. He's
Speaker 1: regretting saying anything any guy does once they say something
Speaker 1: and it becomes a fight. Well, he's so like noncombative.
Speaker 1: He's like, and I'm like, and when I've told him,
Speaker 1: I was just like, don't just say because then he's like,
Speaker 1: it's fine. It's not fine, So tell me how you feel, like,
Speaker 1: let's talk about it. So I'm a little I'm not
Speaker 1: as I'm not as on board with cat. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: a little flaggy about it. Okay, yellow flag maybe only
Speaker 1: because I feel because he is a self proclaimed fast faller,
Speaker 1: I feel like the hot and cold coma that part
Speaker 1: feels a little flaggy to me. It feels like if
Speaker 1: he's not really being super loved on, doated on that
Speaker 1: you're then it becomes that you're you're hot and cold. Actually,
Speaker 1: it's just real life. What's happening is just real life.
Speaker 1: And like I will say, like in that situation too,
Speaker 1: and even with him, I'm very comfortable around him, so
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I have to put on right
Speaker 1: like some like overly affectionate kind of but I'm at
Speaker 1: I could be accused and have been accused of being
Speaker 1: a little hot and cold as well. I think we
Speaker 1: all can. That's just life. I just didn't like the
Speaker 1: passive throw that's like because I'm like, that's that's the
Speaker 1: piece where like I kind of like it's flagged in
Speaker 1: my brain where I'm just like, but I also like
Speaker 1: he was frustrated, like you said, like he's been watching me,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure there was something and I don't mean
Speaker 1: this in the bad way, but I'm sure there was
Speaker 1: something passive in the way you said something. So I
Speaker 1: just think that like that is like kind of the
Speaker 1: natural way some people like that we talk sometimes. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's as bad as but I was defensive
Speaker 1: though when he said like, and I'm like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? But then it really doesn't feel like it
Speaker 1: was about that anyways. It was about the hot and coldness,
Speaker 1: which which is maybe which was his real issue. I
Speaker 1: don't know, you've just been hot and cold? Well that's
Speaker 1: just is like what I got thrown out. Say you're
Speaker 1: frustrated about me getting ready versus like hot and cold
Speaker 1: all day? Yeah, and just about that too, like say
Speaker 1: it all. But it's how they because he said you're
Speaker 1: hot and cold and they were mad that he said
Speaker 1: I'm hating hot and cold. That does scare me too.
Speaker 1: But he's a fast follower. He's kind of damned if
Speaker 1: he does. Damned if he doesn't. I don't even know him,
Speaker 1: but he's kind of damned if he does, damned if
Speaker 1: he doesn't. If that he's feeling that way because you're
Speaker 1: already defensive, so him talking about it then kind of
Speaker 1: no matter how he says it, you're going to be
Speaker 1: on the defensive anyway. I don't know. Let's ask let's
Speaker 1: ask Nick. He's in the waiting room. Let's bring him on.
Speaker 1: Nick Grand Nick. I'm a big fan, um Nick and
Speaker 1: I go away back and um I just I love you,
Speaker 1: I think for doing this. And I was reading your
Speaker 1: book and we were going through some of the questions
Speaker 1: too with my girls. But we did just have a
Speaker 1: dating thing that kind of just happened, and I'm curious.
Speaker 1: Can can we just get your take on a situation
Speaker 1: that just kind of happened in my dating life? Love?
Speaker 1: Love this? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, So do you
Speaker 1: guys want to Can I I apologize? I can? I
Speaker 1: I don't know everyone in the sorry, this is She's
Speaker 1: watched all of the episodes. Um, this is This is
Speaker 1: Kristen my friend, and this is Catherine. Hi. Nice to me.
Speaker 1: They're part of the Queendom and wind down. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and yes, so do you guys want to recap or yes?
Speaker 1: Long story short, we're gonna long story short. She's hanging
Speaker 1: out with a guy. She's trying to figure out if
Speaker 1: this is a red flag or is just getting to
Speaker 1: know each other. Okay, he says be ready by four
Speaker 1: thirty five at the latest, so she takes it as
Speaker 1: be ready by five, well about four or forty five.
Speaker 1: He's kind of huffing and puffin, moving around and it
Speaker 1: getting frustrated. Whatever. This is the first second third date
Speaker 1: where weird, like, um, it's not a first. It's definitely
Speaker 1: not a first. I would say, like, let's just say
Speaker 1: it's a seventh. Hang. But we've been talking for like
Speaker 1: a month and a half with text too, because he
Speaker 1: was like not living here. Okay. Yeah, So he gets
Speaker 1: a little frustrated. Are you about ready? She gets defensive
Speaker 1: because I'm like, you told me five latest, Okay, all
Speaker 1: the defenses are up, and he she wants to prove
Speaker 1: obviously that he said five lates and he said no,
Speaker 1: I said four thirty And I go, no, no, you
Speaker 1: said four thirty five latest, Like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: forget the time in which you told me to be
Speaker 1: ready by I just I don't. I don't forget a
Speaker 1: much men say anyways. So like it's a it's a
Speaker 1: it's a it's a vault, and so, um, you're a
Speaker 1: punctual person. I'm very punctual person and so and I
Speaker 1: don't like to feel rushed. But I also this is
Speaker 1: something an event that he invited me to and I
Speaker 1: think it's go ahead. Yeah. So then he's like this
Speaker 1: is important to me, like blah blah blah. I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if he's just not feeling like you're making it a priority.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so then he makes kind of a passive
Speaker 1: aggressive comment that I just think you've been hot and
Speaker 1: cold all day, but she's already you know, defensive, and
Speaker 1: then you know there's all that. So it's like me,
Speaker 1: so do you think that's a flag saying that I've
Speaker 1: been like being frustrated and then throwing why just like
Speaker 1: you've been like hot even so hot and cold today.
Speaker 1: I'd like to also say this guy is an admitted
Speaker 1: fast faller in relationships. He loves a good like instick.
Speaker 1: He acknowledged yes, yes, yes, and he is trying hard
Speaker 1: not to do that. And I've acknowledged that I'm a
Speaker 1: fast fall archer. So we are literally like like baby baby, baby,
Speaker 1: baby baby steps seeing that like because I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna relationship until And to be clear, how many
Speaker 1: dates have you been on in person? Well? The hard
Speaker 1: so like we we we texted for like two weeks
Speaker 1: every day, all day whatever on the phone FaceTime, and
Speaker 1: then we had like five dates and then we then
Speaker 1: FaceTime texted for two weeks straight again because he was gone,
Speaker 1: and then that was our next kind of hang sash
Speaker 1: like that, like weekend dish. Yeah, it sounds like you
Speaker 1: both are falling trapped to what you've already acknowledged that
Speaker 1: you're both guilty of. Um, So there's that. I would
Speaker 1: say you're probably both justified for considering if the other
Speaker 1: person is showing these red flags right, Like, it sounds
Speaker 1: like this is just it's these are it's it's a
Speaker 1: lack of good communication and heightened expectation and unfair expectations
Speaker 1: of both of you, and you're both kind of playing
Speaker 1: games in a sense, right, Like he could have said,
Speaker 1: you know, also like you know the four thirty five o'clock, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what is that's very confusing? Is it four thirty or five? Now?
Speaker 1: Everyone like and and being late is a is a
Speaker 1: huge pet peeve of mine, right, not being late, but
Speaker 1: like not just saying not get not giving me the
Speaker 1: heads up before running late, Like the people who are
Speaker 1: just like I'm on my way and they're like not
Speaker 1: even in the shower, right, But like that if there's
Speaker 1: a spectrum of like people's personal preferences here of what
Speaker 1: annoys people, what doesn't annoy people, And he just assumed
Speaker 1: that saying four thirty five meant like a that you're
Speaker 1: someone who is on time all the time, and like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: are you giving me options? Do you want me to
Speaker 1: be ready at four thirty or five? That's a thirty
Speaker 1: minute difference. Well, I don't know everything about women. I
Speaker 1: do know that like getting ready takes sometimes for some
Speaker 1: people a lot, and thirty minutes could be critical between
Speaker 1: Like listen, if if I tell you four thirty and
Speaker 1: you show up at five, you're thirty minutes late. But
Speaker 1: but if if if you told me five, I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's also worth noting. At some point Janna's facetiming her
Speaker 1: mom during this period that she's also I mean, but
Speaker 1: I heard five. That's besides the point she's in the
Speaker 1: house watching her Why is the house? Well, Nick, he's
Speaker 1: a fast follower. No, no, no, no, no, no. We
Speaker 1: were still. We were a bit of information that I
Speaker 1: did not give. You know, we were we went on
Speaker 1: a little getaway together. All right, So you're already playing house.
Speaker 1: No it wasn't. It was a no, it's not playing house,
Speaker 1: playing house. I don't mean like you're moving in together.
Speaker 1: He wasn't at my house. I wasn't at his house.
Speaker 1: We went, Yeah, I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you guys have like you said, FaceTime every day for
Speaker 1: two weeks, you had multiple dates, then he was out
Speaker 1: of town, and then you face time again, and like
Speaker 1: I've been like, those are fun and they're great because
Speaker 1: you can connect and like when you're forced to like
Speaker 1: face time and talk, you're forced to actually have conversations,
Speaker 1: which in person people are often are bad at doing
Speaker 1: because you know, it's awkward. Let's make out things like that,
Speaker 1: and so that can maximize an intensity and a relationship,
Speaker 1: and that can maximize chemistry in a relationship. But it
Speaker 1: still doesn't mean that you guys know each other. You
Speaker 1: don't know, like your little idedeo syncrencies of like what
Speaker 1: annoys you guys, or what what triggers you guys? You know,
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden he's watching you get ready
Speaker 1: face time with your mom, and he's thinking like and
Speaker 1: last girlfriend did this and things like that, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he projects his frustrations of past
Speaker 1: relationships onto you. You do the same thing where you're
Speaker 1: just like, how about you just like give me a
Speaker 1: straight answer and and and so I think you guys,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's good for you for acknowledging that
Speaker 1: you're both fast followers. But I don't think you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think you guys are hold. I don't think
Speaker 1: you're making it easy on each other to not fall fast.
Speaker 1: It's like what you're doing is saying you're just like, hey,
Speaker 1: I have this really bad habit, and you're like, I
Speaker 1: have this bad habit too. All right, Well, let's put
Speaker 1: ourselves in situation immediately to see if we can, like,
Speaker 1: you know, not do the thing that we're so, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like, hey, I'm not a good swimmer. Me neither.
Speaker 1: All right, Let's go to the middle of ocean and
Speaker 1: jump in. Let see what happens, you know. And so
Speaker 1: it's one thing to recognize your difference, is I think
Speaker 1: you we have to, like, especially if you're communicating in
Speaker 1: any stage of relationship. This is early on, so you
Speaker 1: guys don't know each other about each other, but like,
Speaker 1: don't test your partner. Support your partner, you know, like
Speaker 1: make it easy for them to make you happy, like
Speaker 1: I'd always talk about, like you With Natalie. The one
Speaker 1: thing she does in this my relationship with her that
Speaker 1: I've never experienced is that she makes it so easy
Speaker 1: for me to be successful. She's just like, this is
Speaker 1: what will make me happy, and it's a very clear directive.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna go do that thing
Speaker 1: or not do the thing, you know, or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: And you know, testing people or putting themselves in situations
Speaker 1: to prove that they can get over the weaknesses isn't
Speaker 1: showing love. It's just you know, it's I know, we
Speaker 1: do that because we want to be surprised, and if
Speaker 1: we do that, then that means they then we're worth it.
Speaker 1: But like sometimes you know, when we're getting to know
Speaker 1: easchach other, we're just like trying to like figure out
Speaker 1: whether like we enjoy their company, and so like I
Speaker 1: think we should just make it easy for people to
Speaker 1: enjoy our company. And then he made like you should say.
Speaker 1: I would say to him, like, listen, I want to
Speaker 1: be on time for you and I and I want
Speaker 1: to I want to make things a priority that are
Speaker 1: a prayer to you. It would really be helpful to me.
Speaker 1: And I say this a lot in my relationship now,
Speaker 1: I'll say, it would be really helpful if you could
Speaker 1: do this for me. I have this bad habit and
Speaker 1: it would really help me to work in this bad habit.
Speaker 1: If you could do X Y or z oh, shoot,
Speaker 1: I can, I can, I can wait to speak. I
Speaker 1: can be forgetful, you know, things like that. You know, so, um,
Speaker 1: what's another thing I know Natalie will ask me about, um, well,
Speaker 1: like I won't pay attention to right, So, like I
Speaker 1: think it's a very common right, men do this all
Speaker 1: the time. Uh we're zoning out. I can be aloof.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what am I talking on my Knox podcast?
Speaker 1: Or what show? What TikTok should I make? Or blah
Speaker 1: blah blah or whatever whatever bullshit, And and then she'll
Speaker 1: be telling me a story, and and then I won't
Speaker 1: be paying attention and she'll get frustrated, like oh what
Speaker 1: do you say? And like there's nothing more annoying than
Speaker 1: repeating yourself. I repeating myself. So I asked her. I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, I know I can be aloof, but
Speaker 1: can if you see me like zoning out, can you
Speaker 1: just like kind of just say, hey, I really want
Speaker 1: your attention right now? Can you plead? You know? And
Speaker 1: that can be annoying sometimes, but it's it's still better
Speaker 1: than me just fled out annoying her. So like it
Speaker 1: was me asking for her help to help me with
Speaker 1: a weakness that I know I have, And so like,
Speaker 1: I think those little things that we have to do
Speaker 1: to say it's like it's one thing to be like
Speaker 1: I am not good at that. Well, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know how old your person you're hanging out with this,
Speaker 1: But am I guessing he's an adult man who hasn't
Speaker 1: figured out how to do this thing yet. So like
Speaker 1: he's not going to do it on his own, and
Speaker 1: he's not going to do it without help, and he's
Speaker 1: not going to do without someone who has the patience
Speaker 1: to like work with them also like say how how
Speaker 1: can I how can I help you work on this
Speaker 1: bad habit? And this is how you can help me
Speaker 1: work on this bad habit. I think people don't do
Speaker 1: that enough. We just want people to just change for us,
Speaker 1: because that means we're special. We've done that a lot.
Speaker 1: So I've been I've been married for yeah, like for
Speaker 1: fifteen years and we separated for a couple of months
Speaker 1: and we are back together. We did not get divorced,
Speaker 1: but we do that all the time. Now, what do
Speaker 1: you mean, Like I'll be like, hey, I need you
Speaker 1: to do X Y, and Z because I know that
Speaker 1: this is a bad habit of mine and this will
Speaker 1: help me. And then, like the other day, I got
Speaker 1: frustrated because I was still dealing with the kids and cleaning,
Speaker 1: and he got in bed and I was like, Hey,
Speaker 1: what frustrates me is when you know I'm still doing
Speaker 1: stuff and so if you could help me, okay, thanks
Speaker 1: for letting me know. So the next day he stayed
Speaker 1: up helping me do stuff, like and I mean, it
Speaker 1: took fifteen years for us to like start doing that
Speaker 1: and like making it a habit, but gosh, it helps
Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah, it helps a ton, and it's yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's by far the norm not
Speaker 1: to do what we just described. It's and it's I
Speaker 1: think it's weird and like it's it feels it's such
Speaker 1: an uncommon feeling to say can you help me to
Speaker 1: your partner who you've been living with or dating for
Speaker 1: some period of time, because we just want them to
Speaker 1: like know us, you know, and we want us to
Speaker 1: figure it out. But I think sometimes this is okay
Speaker 1: to say I am bad at this and it would
Speaker 1: be really helpful if you could do this for me,
Speaker 1: and I will do my part. Too, Like sometimes we
Speaker 1: can't make the mistake of saying I need your help,
Speaker 1: and that ask for help is like you doing someone
Speaker 1: else doing the work for you. You know, you have
Speaker 1: to be willing to do that, because I have to.
Speaker 1: I have to be willing to, you know, if I'm
Speaker 1: if I'm in my thoughts, to pay attention of my
Speaker 1: surroundings and not be so aloof and be present, you know,
Speaker 1: and things like that. So like she doesn't have to
Speaker 1: ask me every time to say, hey, hey, i'm talking
Speaker 1: you know, um, because and it's my job to be
Speaker 1: mindful of that, because like no one wants to keep
Speaker 1: asking that. So it's a balance. But um, in your situation, Jenna,
Speaker 1: it's like you guys know, you don't know. You have
Speaker 1: no baseline, you have no foundation. You have a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks and a handful of dates and hours of
Speaker 1: face time saying all the things that you you know,
Speaker 1: and being very open and vulnerable and and and now
Speaker 1: you're both expecting each other to just be a certain
Speaker 1: type of person because you've communicated things. But yet you're
Speaker 1: expecting this person who their entire life they've struggled with
Speaker 1: this thing or and you too, I'm sure you have
Speaker 1: a lot of your saying bad habits right, like don't
Speaker 1: just go away, you know, like I just I am
Speaker 1: who I am, you know what I'm saying. All I
Speaker 1: can do is just try to like fix them a
Speaker 1: little bit and ask for my partner to help me
Speaker 1: along the way. I think one of the things that
Speaker 1: I learned too is and I feel bad, you know,
Speaker 1: um with like my ex husband and where it's like
Speaker 1: I wanted him to read my mind and I've learned
Speaker 1: like that men just can't read women's minds and they
Speaker 1: he doesn't know what I need and I coming, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't know what he needed. And so like having
Speaker 1: expressing like your needs is huge, and I think that's
Speaker 1: when I in that, you know, dating nowadays, I'm just
Speaker 1: like this is what I need, and like what do
Speaker 1: you need? How can I help you? Or because it's
Speaker 1: like because you can't read my mind and I can't
Speaker 1: read your So like if you need me to be
Speaker 1: ready at four thirty, I'm going to be ready at
Speaker 1: four thirty, but I can't read I cannot read your
Speaker 1: mind that you want me ready at that time, well
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's like it's like
Speaker 1: it's just I think it's just being very clear and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: asking for the needs and that's why I like and
Speaker 1: I love that you Nick are doing that too. Um
Speaker 1: that's the check in. I mean that was the most
Speaker 1: helpful thing in my marriage is we would do a
Speaker 1: check and at the end of the night being like
Speaker 1: this is what I need and like, hey, I need
Speaker 1: you to be a little softer because I'm having a
Speaker 1: hard time. I need you to listen or but sometimes
Speaker 1: it's hard, and I know this is where I failed.
Speaker 1: I'm like, why do I have to tell you to listen?
Speaker 1: You know? And in my past that's like that's where
Speaker 1: I would I mean, that's unhealthy of me to have
Speaker 1: that mindset where it's like I'm like, my feelings that
Speaker 1: hurt because he didn't listen. Well, you know whatever. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's a balance, you know, because yeah,
Speaker 1: like I said, like, sometimes you want your partner to
Speaker 1: be present and you don't have to want to always
Speaker 1: say can you listen, Yeah, listen to me. And we
Speaker 1: were in our thoughts a lot, right, you know, and
Speaker 1: I think we're I think we have to forget, uh,
Speaker 1: we have to remind ourselves that ah, as much as
Speaker 1: it's in our brains and what we're worried about, so
Speaker 1: is everyone else around us too. Like a quote that's
Speaker 1: really stuck with me that I saw on a TV
Speaker 1: show was we're never the villains in our own story. Um,
Speaker 1: And I really you know that. I think that's a
Speaker 1: great thing for us to remind ourselves and dating relationships, Like,
Speaker 1: whatever you're feeling, whatever, no matter how right you think
Speaker 1: you are, just take a moment and just consider how
Speaker 1: would I feel if I put myself in your shoes,
Speaker 1: even if I feel like I'm right, Like if I
Speaker 1: just thought for a moment before I respond, before I
Speaker 1: really get worked up, before I get mad, how might
Speaker 1: you be seeing the situation? And that's helped me a
Speaker 1: lot to just like bring myself back down to like
Speaker 1: not reacting to like feeling triggered, or feeling insecure, or
Speaker 1: feeling frustrated with my partner. That's a good one. I
Speaker 1: like that a lot. Um One of the questions in
Speaker 1: your book, because what I was telling the girls and
Speaker 1: the listeners is, um, this this book is great because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions, and you do a lot
Speaker 1: of questions and answer on your Instagram and we were
Speaker 1: going through some of them, and the girls actually wanted
Speaker 1: to debate this one with you because he's like great, great.
Speaker 1: So the question was why do men tell women things
Speaker 1: just because women want to hear it? And you said,
Speaker 1: because they want short term gratification, and the girls want
Speaker 1: to debate that with you and go, well, I'm just curious,
Speaker 1: is that for the guys short term gratification or the
Speaker 1: girls short term gratification or both? I mean that particular
Speaker 1: part of the book is obviously the Q and as
Speaker 1: I've done over the years that are like at the
Speaker 1: end of every chapter, and so, um, you know, that
Speaker 1: question was probably probably my guesses came from like a
Speaker 1: data you know, dealing with you know, boys and situation ships,
Speaker 1: because I honestly think you know, as a as a
Speaker 1: as a heterosexual male who's often like you know, has
Speaker 1: an audience of women, Like I really think most of
Speaker 1: the things I talked about are just they're not like
Speaker 1: gender based like people to your point, people do that, right,
Speaker 1: And so she was asking from the perspective as a
Speaker 1: woman dating men, and yeah, I think we often will
Speaker 1: say things that we don't really mean, but in the
Speaker 1: moment it gets us what we want. And the scary
Speaker 1: part about that is we're just very convincing of ourselves.
Speaker 1: So when we tell people we BELLI, they believe us.
Speaker 1: You know. It's you know, it's like when our exes
Speaker 1: come back, you know, and we're just like, you know,
Speaker 1: and unless there's exceptions every rule. I think that's awesome
Speaker 1: that you and your partner took some time apart and
Speaker 1: now you have a great marriage, you know. But lots
Speaker 1: of times in relationships where people break up and their
Speaker 1: exes come back, you're like, well, why are you back?
Speaker 1: Just like, well, I had to make a mistake and
Speaker 1: I realized how special you were, and and a lot
Speaker 1: of times, you know, and and they sound so convincing,
Speaker 1: and then you get back together and three months go
Speaker 1: by and you haven't done any work, you haven't asked
Speaker 1: the questions. You were just so excited that they're back
Speaker 1: because you spent three months is to big being sad
Speaker 1: about it. And the truth is like they just like
Speaker 1: they broke up with you thinking well, you know what,
Speaker 1: there's something missing here. I could do better, not like
Speaker 1: not better than you, but they just they thought something
Speaker 1: might be more fulfilling. So they started dating. They went
Speaker 1: out there they got on the dating apps. All of
Speaker 1: the sudden, they're like this dating seems sucks, you know,
Speaker 1: and and all of a sudden, and no one wants
Speaker 1: to convince themselves. No one wants to think that they settled.
Speaker 1: They would you know, we're not good at admitting we're wrong,
Speaker 1: but you know, when we're really good admitting we're wrong
Speaker 1: when we when the alternative is to think that we
Speaker 1: settled or or you know. So it's like when you know, what,
Speaker 1: I did make a mistake, because I would rather tell
Speaker 1: my ego I made a mistake and be like, you
Speaker 1: know what, honestly, like it's like I thought I could
Speaker 1: do better, but like this is better than nothing, you know,
Speaker 1: Like we don't want a thing that you know, and
Speaker 1: so we can just be so convincing of ourselves. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think that's why, especially early in dating
Speaker 1: situations where we we hear something from someone that sounds
Speaker 1: really good and the really validates us, especially when a
Speaker 1: stranger validates us, I think it's really important to ask why.
Speaker 1: You know, we're always we're so quick to be like,
Speaker 1: you know, when people don't want to date us anymore
Speaker 1: or hurt us, we were like why, But why why, why?
Speaker 1: Why does this want to end? And that's when we
Speaker 1: should accept it. But like when when strangers validated us,
Speaker 1: we're just like, yeah, I know I am, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love me too. Yeah yeah, like honestly, like thank you.
Speaker 1: I I thought I looked good too, you know. And
Speaker 1: so I think it's just really important to you know,
Speaker 1: not to be a buzz killer in a moment, but
Speaker 1: just say, oh, it's thank you for saying that. That
Speaker 1: means a lot. But like why do you feel that
Speaker 1: way about? You know, like what you know? And and
Speaker 1: get people to explain their feelings they claim to have,
Speaker 1: because it's easy to stay to feeling it's much harder
Speaker 1: to articulate what And I think early in dating we
Speaker 1: can protect ourselves by asking the people who who state
Speaker 1: these kind of big proclamations of love or like to
Speaker 1: just explain how they feel. And I think you can
Speaker 1: get a lot more clarity about someone's true intentions when
Speaker 1: you start doing that. I also like how you go
Speaker 1: through um like training the pickers, where it's like five
Speaker 1: hallmarks of a player. They have a history of cheating,
Speaker 1: lots of people warning about them, they gas like you,
Speaker 1: they love bomb you, and then you're going to go
Speaker 1: into detail, but I'm like, yep, check, check, check, tringeck
Speaker 1: of all was like so many check I gotta go. Um,
Speaker 1: But I'm curious, like when you because if you're a picker,
Speaker 1: obviously you've had um relationships, public relationships, and what was
Speaker 1: different with Natalie that you realized from the other women
Speaker 1: you dated. I mean, there's a lot of different things,
Speaker 1: but I think more than anything, um, she she truly
Speaker 1: has a true sense of self and self worth and
Speaker 1: who she is. And you know, when we met, we met,
Speaker 1: you know, I uh, she was living across the country.
Speaker 1: It was a long distance relationship. I had a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, questions about our compatibility. I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're beautiful, and you're fun and and
Speaker 1: nice and smart, but like, I don't know, And again
Speaker 1: I would I've been single for a long time, so
Speaker 1: I think I had a lot of cold feet. But
Speaker 1: the more I got to know her, the more she
Speaker 1: was just always very clear with how she was feeling.
Speaker 1: Um And a lot of times people will say, well
Speaker 1: what are we and and you know, I felt like
Speaker 1: I felt resistant to a relationship and I knew that,
Speaker 1: you know, we were both kind of catching feelings, and
Speaker 1: she was open to it. And instead of doing the
Speaker 1: typical well what are we you know, what should we do?
Speaker 1: What are you thinking? She was just more Okay, I
Speaker 1: want to tell you how I am feeling. I want
Speaker 1: to tell you why. I just I just want you
Speaker 1: to listen and and and to me, I found that
Speaker 1: to be an incredibly attractive quality that was really carried
Speaker 1: into our relationship because she's such a good communicator about
Speaker 1: how she is feeling. You know, we can it's so
Speaker 1: easy for us to be passive aggressive, and because like
Speaker 1: those conversations can be awkward to have even with the
Speaker 1: people we say we love the most, and so she
Speaker 1: has always just been able to make it very clear.
Speaker 1: She's always communicated with me her self worth in a
Speaker 1: way that was easy for me to receive that didn't
Speaker 1: sound cocky or and it wasn't passive aggressive. It was
Speaker 1: just this is what I expect from you, this is
Speaker 1: what I want, this is how I feel about you.
Speaker 1: And I'm not afraid to say that because I'm confident
Speaker 1: in my feelings and I feel like that has carried
Speaker 1: over to us having really good trust and communication with
Speaker 1: you know, any struggles or concerns we have, and uh,
Speaker 1: that's something that I haven't really had in the past.
Speaker 1: I felt like a sense of competing with people, not
Speaker 1: necessarily like we're both trying to win, but like there's
Speaker 1: we would trigger insecurities with each other. Instead of communicating
Speaker 1: about that, we would project that by you know, maybe
Speaker 1: kind of passively aggressively hurting their feelings of these little
Speaker 1: digs and things like that. And I think I've been
Speaker 1: guilty of that. People I've dated have been guilty of
Speaker 1: that with me, And you know, I think with Nally,
Speaker 1: a big reason why I have the opposite is her
Speaker 1: confidence and her belief in her self worth. Following you
Speaker 1: anytime you guys ever go somewhere, I'm always thinking it's
Speaker 1: going to be an engagement photo. Like it's like because
Speaker 1: I just feel like you guys went together for a
Speaker 1: minute now, and I'm like and I just keep I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the for that because it's like, because
Speaker 1: you guys have like these beautiful photos and the backdrops
Speaker 1: and stud I'm like, oh this is in there. Oh no, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: But I was like, but I just uh, over two
Speaker 1: years now, things are going great, you know, Um, you're
Speaker 1: not the only person who who's who has said that
Speaker 1: to me. I think we're really just enjoying her. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean again when she does a great job of
Speaker 1: making me, make it easy for me to be successful. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know, like I want to know enough of
Speaker 1: what she wants to be happy, but I also wanted
Speaker 1: to be kind of a surprise moment, a special moment.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that we've both been super busy with our
Speaker 1: careers and our lives. And obviously I have the book
Speaker 1: coming out and and so like I want to, I
Speaker 1: want to make sure it has its own moment, you know,
Speaker 1: so to speak to that it's not sandwiched in with
Speaker 1: you know, other things we have going on. And I
Speaker 1: will say though that you know, we are excited about
Speaker 1: our future, and who knows when it can happen, maybe
Speaker 1: tomorrow or you know, who knows, But like I do think,
Speaker 1: you know, we we're really happy with how it is.
Speaker 1: And and okay, you're I can tell by his answer
Speaker 1: that's all I need to know. Be a smart guy, Nick,
Speaker 1: I plan on spending the rest of my life with her,
Speaker 1: and hopefully that that that comes to fruition. But we'll see.
Speaker 1: I'm calling it, and it's it's one month. In one month,
Speaker 1: that's happening. I can just call it right, I'm sorry, Um, well,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't want it sandwiched. So so it's gonna
Speaker 1: before the holiday is spring? No, not not happening. It's
Speaker 1: going to be he's got a book in holiday before Christmas.
Speaker 1: It's happening. I can call it. Let's think about right now,
Speaker 1: how much Well, I guess we'll find out. Okay. I
Speaker 1: have a question, a dating question. If a guy goes
Speaker 1: see you, let's say, let's just hypothetically say you were
Speaker 1: hanging out for three or so months. It was you know,
Speaker 1: he was still on dating apps, so was I, um,
Speaker 1: but had some lovely time spent together, and the person
Speaker 1: just straight up like ghosts, you does the person come
Speaker 1: Do you think that person comes back around? Or now
Speaker 1: are they gone? Why do you want? That's what doesn't say.
Speaker 1: The bigger question is why you just I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's me. I'm just saying hypothetically, like ghosts come back.
Speaker 1: Of course they always come back from the dead. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't. And what do you what do you tell
Speaker 1: to the person when the ghoster comes back? Because you
Speaker 1: know that you probably shouldn't be with the Ghoster god.
Speaker 1: Well kind of like I talked about earlier about why
Speaker 1: people come back in general, you know, like any anyone
Speaker 1: who goes for any reason, and I listen, everyone has
Speaker 1: their reasons for certain things. But like, I'm sorry, Like
Speaker 1: you're a bad communicator. You know, under under stressful situations,
Speaker 1: you you choose the easy way out, which is not
Speaker 1: to communicate at all. And I don't like you don't
Speaker 1: need me or any other person talks about relationships, like
Speaker 1: everyone knows that the number one most important thing for
Speaker 1: a successful relationship is good communication. So you are, you
Speaker 1: are investing in people who are proving more than like
Speaker 1: you know nothing about these people sometimes and then they
Speaker 1: ghost to you and you're like so willing to take
Speaker 1: them back. And the only reason really take them back
Speaker 1: is because them ghost to you makes you feel less.
Speaker 1: Then it makes you feel like a loser. You judge
Speaker 1: yourself like how could you ghost me? Like it's like
Speaker 1: how could you cheat on me? Like we we make
Speaker 1: their actions a reflection of our self worth, which is terrible,
Speaker 1: but like you know that's our egos. And if whoever
Speaker 1: this person is, I suspect and I say this with
Speaker 1: love because I also have a massive ego. I would
Speaker 1: suspect this person might have just a fairly inflated sense
Speaker 1: of self uh. And and that ego has allowed this
Speaker 1: person to do all these amazing things and probably take
Speaker 1: some risks and and have careers that people dream to have.
Speaker 1: But we have to be able to like check ourselves
Speaker 1: and remember that like when people wrong us, that's because
Speaker 1: they chose to wrong us with there their choices and
Speaker 1: and and we can't let our egos make it our
Speaker 1: problem and our self worth. And then we spend all
Speaker 1: this time trying to convince someone who's showing us how
Speaker 1: unworthy they are of us all these opportunities to come back,
Speaker 1: because all we want is their validation. So would you
Speaker 1: say the biggest red flag then in a in in
Speaker 1: dating or a man is why are you lefting it? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm busy making my nick for president shirts. But the
Speaker 1: biggest red flag in dating? Would you say someone that
Speaker 1: isn't good at communicating? Uh? I mean sure, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you can, if you're dating someone and you know, for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, they're a bad communicator, or if yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know, see if the latest you can work on that?
Speaker 1: Kidding or reactive like I would you know, how do
Speaker 1: also how do people react to stress? Which is interesting
Speaker 1: going back to how this whole conversation started. I think
Speaker 1: this this can be an opportunity for you in this person, Janna,
Speaker 1: because what you are is you guys are testing one's
Speaker 1: ability to deal with some sort of conflict. It's too
Speaker 1: early to deal with this type of conflict. But maybe
Speaker 1: maybe you go to him and say, listen, um, I
Speaker 1: know that was really important to you, so like I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that I wasn't ready and that because like I
Speaker 1: know that was important to you, and I don't want
Speaker 1: you to feel like you're important. Things are important to me.
Speaker 1: It would help me in the future that if if
Speaker 1: something is really a priority, just give me one time,
Speaker 1: and I promise you I will be ready by that time.
Speaker 1: If you give me two times, I'm telling you what
Speaker 1: I'm going to receive it. I'm going to receive it
Speaker 1: by saying like, yeah, I'm on time, I'm not early.
Speaker 1: So like, if you want me to be early, then
Speaker 1: give me a different time, give me give me that
Speaker 1: communicate that. See how he responds to that, because like
Speaker 1: the only real response to that would be like he
Speaker 1: should he should also say, you know what, You're right,
Speaker 1: I made that confusing. I am sorry. So that's what
Speaker 1: he did, and I loved that. That's handsome because I'm
Speaker 1: the ride there. He's like, I was kind of quiet,
Speaker 1: and he goes, can we talk? I need a minute
Speaker 1: because I felt like my defense and I know when
Speaker 1: I'm defensive, I shouldn't communicate, and so then once I
Speaker 1: was like okay, and then he did say, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I could see how that was confusing, and
Speaker 1: you know, he's like, I just was, you know, really
Speaker 1: like blah blah blah. So he like he definitely owned
Speaker 1: his part and then which made me then feel comfortable
Speaker 1: to go and you know, I'm sorry. I was very
Speaker 1: defensive back because I got triggered with like, you know,
Speaker 1: feeling rushed or whatever from blah blah blah. So I
Speaker 1: think you're right. Like it's almost like that was a
Speaker 1: good little tester to see how we deal with potential
Speaker 1: conflict and in future conversations, because I mean, other than communication,
Speaker 1: I think there's no better indicator than people's ability to
Speaker 1: be successful is like how do they deal with conflict?
Speaker 1: Because it just if you and I've been there, if
Speaker 1: if you're in a relationship with someone, no matter how
Speaker 1: much fun they are, how much chemistry you have, when
Speaker 1: it gets bad, it's bad and you guys can't get
Speaker 1: on the same page and it takes like a freaking
Speaker 1: week to get over anything Like this is not sustainable,
Speaker 1: you know, Like it just wears you down, you know,
Speaker 1: and it just it won't matter how fun it is
Speaker 1: when it's good. So um, you know, that's why. Like,
Speaker 1: that's why I think people should be less resistant to
Speaker 1: communicating their frustrations and less resistant to conflict early on
Speaker 1: or just hearing something you don't want to hear it,
Speaker 1: because all you are is figuring out fairly early, like
Speaker 1: how you can work through issues with someone, because if
Speaker 1: you can't do that, like it doesn't matter. Like the
Speaker 1: honeymoon foods phases great, But the longer the honeymoon phases
Speaker 1: phase last without any conflict, you still have a lot
Speaker 1: to learn, you know. Until you have that first fight,
Speaker 1: whatever that fight is, and and and figure out is
Speaker 1: this someone I can work through issues for? Then you
Speaker 1: still don't really know them, you know. So just be
Speaker 1: careful how much you're willing to promise yourself and what
Speaker 1: feelings you're willing to express to someone before you truly
Speaker 1: know someone. And I'm not saying pick a fight early on,
Speaker 1: but just you and listen. We want to romanticize things
Speaker 1: all the time. And it's just like I feel like
Speaker 1: I've known you and like, you know, as if you're
Speaker 1: someone I used to make this mistake, right. I thought
Speaker 1: I was gonna be married with kids at and then
Speaker 1: I wasn't. And then I was in a relationship at
Speaker 1: twenty seven that failed, So then I'm two years behind
Speaker 1: that plan. Then you know, I was in another relationship
Speaker 1: that failed before I was thirty, and then I was
Speaker 1: five years behind that plan, and I started like comparing
Speaker 1: all my success or failures of this artificial deadline. So
Speaker 1: instead of like wanting to get to know someone and
Speaker 1: trying to figure out if we're really compatible, I would
Speaker 1: just be like, nah, we're in love, right. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to like wait, I didn't want to wait at
Speaker 1: the time to be like, you know, no, I love you,
Speaker 1: I have feelings of love for you. I love everything
Speaker 1: I know so far, but like you know, and I
Speaker 1: know what we'll see you know, I you know, I
Speaker 1: truly believe that every relationship you have to wake up
Speaker 1: every day and choose to be in a relationship, you know,
Speaker 1: because I didn't, I think, and I don't believe in fit.
Speaker 1: I believe in that. But like that takes work, and
Speaker 1: the things are going to change, and you're gonna get stressed.
Speaker 1: They're gonna get stressed. You're gonna have bad days, you
Speaker 1: might have bad weeks. You know, we're and it's really
Speaker 1: easy to go back on Ryan and see what's prettier
Speaker 1: and shinier, But you're gonna have the same issues with
Speaker 1: the same shinier person, you know. You know, there's that
Speaker 1: whole section of my book called Everyone's annoying. Yeah they are.
Speaker 1: And if you're someone Jenna for someone who in you too,
Speaker 1: if you met your you fall fast. Don't forget to
Speaker 1: remind yourself just how you know, gross men can be,
Speaker 1: you know, like or or just how obnoxious people can be,
Speaker 1: you know, and so like eventually you're going to find
Speaker 1: out that they like leave every cabinet door open, or
Speaker 1: that they sometimes put like you know, cereal in the
Speaker 1: fridge because I'm not paying attention, and that can be
Speaker 1: really annoying sometimes. And so when you have the rose
Speaker 1: color glasses on, just don't be afraid to know that. Like,
Speaker 1: I gotta figure out what annoys me about you, and
Speaker 1: I gotta figure out if I can love that. Until
Speaker 1: I love that about you, then I'm still figuring it
Speaker 1: out for sure. Everybody, go by don't text your ex
Speaker 1: Happy Birthday. Other sex advice love dating um by Nick,
Speaker 1: But seriously, thank you so much for coming on and
Speaker 1: uh walking us through some dating things. And um, I'm
Speaker 1: so happy for you, Natalie, and I can't wait to
Speaker 1: send a little engagement present before Christmas. It's I can't
Speaker 1: wait to celebrate you guys in the spring. NT wonderful. Well,
Speaker 1: I I can't wait for either exciting. Thank you ladies
Speaker 1: for giving me the opportunity to talk with you. And
Speaker 1: it's always really happy for you. I can I can
Speaker 1: see the you know, just the joy and the love
Speaker 1: and in both of you all. And I think I'm
Speaker 1: happy that everything that you know you're got going on.
Speaker 1: So keep doing it and I'll see you soon. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Okay, alright, some good advice right there, lady.
Speaker 1: I like that there's a person like Nick in the
Speaker 1: world as a male advocate for communication. I like that
Speaker 1: he has a following. I like that he's using the
Speaker 1: following for good. That feels good. But there's one of
Speaker 1: him in the session. I like it. Yeah, how old
Speaker 1: is Nick? He seems young? Um? I like that. I
Speaker 1: wanted to just plays like thirties six. Okay, maybe Nick
Speaker 1: by our age? Um, he's forty two? Do what? What
Speaker 1: did you just show his Instagram? Thanks taller in person?
Speaker 1: I didn't know he's forty two. I like that, and
Speaker 1: I know that there was some he doesn't look for
Speaker 1: you too, But I just like that he's using his
Speaker 1: influence to like really just say the things that need
Speaker 1: to be said. I know that. Oh there, it goes
Speaker 1: through the whole thing. Like Natalie Joy age. So there's
Speaker 1: the couple has an eighteen year age difference. Um, Natalie
Speaker 1: is uh three? Can I see her? But she's I
Speaker 1: mean it sounds like she's way you know, she's cute, stunning. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: but I mean I know that probably comes up, but
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I think if I don't really
Speaker 1: think that much matters. To be honest, he just just
Speaker 1: a number. I've hated older and they were, but communicates
Speaker 1: really well. Yeah. I like I feel like probably that
Speaker 1: generation like her three. It's it's like the middies that
Speaker 1: are like where I would say like actually because they
Speaker 1: they're all they're all in the therapy and the talk
Speaker 1: and that like communicating and telling their feelings. I feel
Speaker 1: like the ones maybe between like and something maybe I
Speaker 1: don't know, ye on this episode all the way down. Okay, well, ladies,
Speaker 1: that was that was a fun episode. And I really
Speaker 1: like Nick. What a sweet man. On another day, and
Speaker 1: I guess we'll just continue on putting the flags on
Speaker 1: the on the white board and and um bringing it
Speaker 1: to the table. And I just want to go to
Speaker 1: the record. I want to go on the record because
Speaker 1: I really do like this guy. And I know he'll listen,
Speaker 1: and if he does listen, I just want him to
Speaker 1: know that I do really like him. I was the
Speaker 1: one that defended him. I'm just saying, well, I'm not
Speaker 1: defending him, but I do like that's just that situation. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, guys,