Speaker 1: On June seventh, twenty eleven, twenty three year old Rondel
Speaker 1: Moore was driving down South Stony Island Avenue in Chicago
Speaker 1: with his friend and his brother. Rondell was having car trouble,
Speaker 1: so they pulled into a gas station. While Rondell and
Speaker 1: another man looked under the hood, a black sedan pulled
Speaker 1: into the lot. A gunman exited the sedan and opened
Speaker 1: fire on Rondel's car. Two men were injured, and Rondel
Speaker 1: Moore was fatally shot. An APB went out for a
Speaker 1: black sedan in the area and a young man in
Speaker 1: a black sedan was arrested. Eventually, that young man said
Speaker 1: that he had dropped off someone nicknamed King Chucky at
Speaker 1: the gas station. Police scoured social media and found Darien
Speaker 1: Harris aka King Chucky, who was subsequently identified from a
Speaker 1: lineup by three witnesses and sentenced to seventy six years.
Speaker 1: But this is a wrongful conviction. Wrongful conviction has always
Speaker 1: given voice to innocent people in prison, and now we're
Speaker 1: expanding that voice to you. Call us at eight three, three,
Speaker 1: two oh seven, four six sixty six and tell us
Speaker 1: how these stories make you feel and what you've done
Speaker 1: to help the cause, even if it's something as simple
Speaker 1: as telling a friend or sharing on social media. We've
Speaker 1: really appreciated hearing from our audience so much so that
Speaker 1: we've included one of the messages at the end of
Speaker 1: this episode. So stick around for that, and if you
Speaker 1: have something to say, we definitely want to hear it,
Speaker 1: and you might just hear yourself in a future episode.
Speaker 1: Call us A three three, two oh seven, four six
Speaker 1: sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction today's story. You're
Speaker 1: going to be stunned at one particular aspect of this case.
Speaker 1: That is like it would be more appropriate for a
Speaker 1: movie that was set up as a comedy than something
Speaker 1: so deadly serious as this case. It's my great honor
Speaker 1: to introduce our two guests today. First of all, a
Speaker 1: name fans of the show will recognize Lauren Myers Koff
Speaker 1: Maller of the Exoneration Project in Illinois. Lauren, welcome back
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Jason, I'm excited to be back
Speaker 2: with a newly released client.
Speaker 1: Darien Harris. Darien, I'm so sorry for what you've been
Speaker 1: through that brought you to this microphone today, but we're
Speaker 1: honored to have you here as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate you allowed me to be here on
Speaker 3: your platform as well.
Speaker 1: So let's go back even before this murder that you
Speaker 1: ended up being charged with. You're only eighteen at the time,
Speaker 1: so there's not that much to even cover. But what
Speaker 1: was your life like before this title wave of insanity?
Speaker 3: A family, good, supportive family, you know, but the sisters.
Speaker 3: I was in high school, I was playing sports, you know.
Speaker 3: I was living my life basically and just having a
Speaker 3: good life, you know. And no matter what I was
Speaker 3: doing while I was outside of having fun with my friends,
Speaker 3: I wasn't doing no crimes or nothing like that. I
Speaker 3: was just being a typical teenager and just enjoying my life.
Speaker 3: And I was set to graduate from high school the
Speaker 3: week before I got locked up, and I got to
Speaker 3: set in to Georgia State.
Speaker 1: Sounds like you had a pretty bright future. You were
Speaker 1: into music as well, right.
Speaker 3: You know, at the time, just being creative. We were
Speaker 3: just raving about things we come up seeing and things
Speaker 3: like homies might be doing something. Was just having fun,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: Around that time, Darien appeared in a RapidIO with a
Speaker 1: few other guys, some of them were tied up with gangs,
Speaker 1: and it seems like gang tensions and the hand fisted
Speaker 1: approach of the Cook County police were at play in
Speaker 1: this wrong for conviction. There was a shooting on June seventh,
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, at a gas station on South Stony Island Avenue.
Speaker 1: If you're looking at it on a map, there's a
Speaker 1: McDonald on the corner above it to the north, and
Speaker 1: then Jackson Park across the street to the east. The
Speaker 1: gas station is a rectangular lot with a depot at
Speaker 1: the center, and just before eight thirty that evening, twenty
Speaker 1: three year old Rondel Moore was fatally shot and found
Speaker 1: towards the backside of the depot.
Speaker 2: The victim had gone to the gas station with some
Speaker 2: friends and his brother. They were having issues with the
Speaker 2: car and this black BMW comes into the parking lot.
Speaker 2: What the police say happened is someone gets out of
Speaker 2: the black car, goes over and shoots at the victim,
Speaker 2: Rondell Moore, and then there are a few other people
Speaker 2: who are shot. There's Marcus Diggs, Quincy Woollard, and then
Speaker 2: the victim's brother, Ronald claimed that he was shot at,
Speaker 2: but the video doesn't really bear that out. So Rondell
Speaker 2: is the only one who is killed, and most of
Speaker 2: the people said that they didn't see who was shooting.
Speaker 1: Both Marcus Diggs and Quincy Wollard could not identify their shooter,
Speaker 1: but Rondell's brother Ronald. The gas station attended Joe Tony
Speaker 1: and two alleged witnesses, Dexter Saffold and Aaron Jones, all
Speaker 1: later made identifications and gave their own versions of events. Luckily,
Speaker 1: there was surveillance footage.
Speaker 2: There is surveillance video of the crime. You can't make
Speaker 2: out much about the person committing the crime, you can't
Speaker 2: see his face, but you can learn some details that
Speaker 2: really helped to kind of unravel the case and show
Speaker 2: what really happened.
Speaker 1: At fourteen seconds after eight twenty seven pm, a black
Speaker 1: sedan pulled into the gas station from the north and
Speaker 1: stopped at the south end, ready to pull back out
Speaker 1: onto South Stony Island Avenue. The shooter got out of
Speaker 1: the car and walked out a frame as he got
Speaker 1: close to Rondell's car and shots were fired. All the
Speaker 1: witnesses agreed that Rondell ran west toward the back of
Speaker 1: the depot with his friend Marcus Diggs ran north towards
Speaker 1: the McDonald's at eight twenty seven forty seven. The shooter
Speaker 1: also ran to the backside of the depot, then ten
Speaker 1: seconds later ran to the south end of the lot,
Speaker 1: where we're not sure if he got back into the
Speaker 1: black sedan, but either way he fled south. The shooting
Speaker 1: was reported on a few nine one one calls, including
Speaker 1: from an alleged onlooker named Dexter Saffold and an APB
Speaker 1: went out at eight thirty pm for a black sedan
Speaker 1: and the police pulled one over in the area.
Speaker 2: Now, initially, the brother of the victim ran to this
Speaker 2: black car that was pulled over nearby, yelling you killed
Speaker 2: my brother. You killed my brother. So they take that guy,
Speaker 2: the driver, into custody, Aaron Jones.
Speaker 1: According to Ronald Moore's initial statement, the shooter had dark
Speaker 1: skin of mohawk and fled in the black sedan. Aaron
Speaker 1: Jones did not have a mohawk and was alone. Maybe
Speaker 1: this was not the correct black sedan. Ronald later changed
Speaker 1: his statement, saying that he just assumed that the shooter
Speaker 1: got into the black sedan, which left Aaron Jones still
Speaker 1: in suspicion of being connected to the shooter and right
Speaker 1: for police coercion. As the investigation continued, the statements from
Speaker 1: Aaron Jones, Ronald Moore, and Dexter Saffold all shifted each
Speaker 1: time they spoke, leaving only one witness whose story remained consistent.
Speaker 2: The gas station attendant. His name was Jody Tony, and
Speaker 2: so right away when the police came, they talked to
Speaker 2: him and he said, I saw this happen. I know
Speaker 2: who was the shooter because he was in the gas
Speaker 2: station an hour before this happened and he was threatening
Speaker 2: me and threatening to blow my head off. So I
Speaker 2: saw him when he did this, and you know, I
Speaker 2: could identify him.
Speaker 1: Jody Tony was later called in to view a lineup.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, investigators followed up with Dexter Saffold, who
Speaker 1: had called nine to one one.
Speaker 2: So he witnesses a shooting, allegedly doesn't stick around back
Speaker 2: at his apartment. They go to talk to him. He's
Speaker 2: what they call an independent witness, so he's not tied
Speaker 2: to any one. It's not like the brother, it's not
Speaker 2: like someone who would have, you know, some kind of
Speaker 2: motivation potentially to lie.
Speaker 1: Strangely, Saffold made claims that are not supported by the
Speaker 1: surveillance footage, and his statements changed along the way.
Speaker 2: And changed in important ways, including what the perpetrator was wearing.
Speaker 2: He described the perpetrator's wearing a black shirt, all this stuff.
Speaker 2: In the video you can see he's wearing like a
Speaker 2: gray tank top or a light colored tank top. What
Speaker 2: has hair looked like.
Speaker 1: Saffold said that the shooter had his hair and twists,
Speaker 1: meaning braids or dreads, which conflicts with Ronald Moore, who
Speaker 1: said the shooter had worn a mohawk.
Speaker 2: And one of the things about Dexter Saffold that the
Speaker 2: video showed was that he claimed he was eighteen feet away,
Speaker 2: but he was actually eighty feet away, and you can
Speaker 2: see that because at some point right after the shooting happens,
Speaker 2: you can see his scooter in the top of one
Speaker 2: of the frames.
Speaker 1: Saffold pulled into frame a full minute after the shooter
Speaker 1: left the scene. So it's not clear what he saw,
Speaker 1: if anything, including that the shooter ran right by him
Speaker 1: while chasing the victim behind the station, which was contradicted
Speaker 1: by the surveillance footage. And somehow there's room for Saffold
Speaker 1: to become even more absurd, but we'll get to that later.
Speaker 1: What's interesting is that even though Ronald Moore and Dexter
Speaker 1: Saffold disagreed on the hair mohawk versus twists and then
Speaker 1: later a low haircut, they agreed on the hype.
Speaker 3: A discription of the shoot was fast seven.
Speaker 1: And does that describe you in any way?
Speaker 3: No, at the time I was six'. TWO i never
Speaker 3: had had a low. Heacut they don't scrab me it.
Speaker 1: Out then the investigation received one more lead.
Speaker 2: From the police. REPORTS a couple of people who were
Speaker 2: close with the Victim. Roundell his girlfriend and one of
Speaker 2: his friends both said that he had been shot at
Speaker 2: a couple days prior by some people from The East
Speaker 2: block set of the Gangster. Disciples so they said that
Speaker 2: the guy who had shot At, rundell that it was
Speaker 2: this Guy.
Speaker 1: Dony, coincidentally Both dooney and one of his known, associates
Speaker 1: a guy Nicknamed, slim had appeared in a rap video
Speaker 1: With darien Aka.
Speaker 3: Kingchucky you know how did music and shot music, Video
Speaker 3: so you KNOW i was around these people or.
Speaker 2: Whatever the brother of the, victim he brings this rap
Speaker 2: video to the police and said someone said the shooter
Speaker 2: was in. Here and then ends up pointing Out.
Speaker 1: Darien it appears this information made its way To Aaron jones.
Speaker 2: He's being interrogated for. Murder they get him to say
Speaker 2: that it was someone Named slim at. First the next
Speaker 2: day that changes to someone Named, chucky.
Speaker 3: And then Again Aaron jones originally, said we looked just
Speaker 3: like literally like when they showed a music video we used.
Speaker 3: TO i, said he, like do it look just LIKE i.
Speaker 2: Don't know if there was some confusion from the outset
Speaker 2: as to who it was because they were both in this,
Speaker 2: video or it was just Because darien was in a
Speaker 2: video with some guys That rundell was feuding. WITH i don't.
Speaker 1: Know perhaps they're similar looking, faces Had ronald. Confused after,
Speaker 1: all there was this huge height, discrepancy and either, way
Speaker 1: the investigators chose to ignore The doony And slim lead
Speaker 1: to focus singularly On, darien who had no record and
Speaker 1: therefore no photos in the. System so they pulled pictures
Speaker 1: from social media and Got Aaron jones to Identify darien
Speaker 1: as the man who had flagged him down for a
Speaker 1: ride to the gas, station which was enough for the rest.
Speaker 3: Warrant they came to a mom crib, like hey were
Speaker 3: looking for your. Son he's been implicated in the. Murder
Speaker 3: and she called me, like what did you?
Speaker 4: Do did you do?
Speaker 3: Anything i'm, LIKE i ain't doing. Nothing she was, like,
Speaker 3: well let's they want to talk to, Him, like, okay
Speaker 3: let's go talk. Home got nothing to, had AND i
Speaker 3: got me a lawyer AND i went down there and
Speaker 3: they tried to talk to me AND i told HIM
Speaker 3: i have none to say BECAUSE i don't know, nothing
Speaker 3: and y'all nothing to create something off of what me,
Speaker 3: saying so THEREFORE i have nothing to. Say i'm with
Speaker 3: my lawyer and.
Speaker 1: You're doing exactly. WELL i think any good lawyer would
Speaker 1: recommend that they do people do more or less what you,
Speaker 1: did which you, Say i'm not talking AND i want a.
Speaker 3: Lawyer she came down there and she was, like don't say,
Speaker 3: nothing and they ain't want to talk to me BECAUSE
Speaker 3: i ain't want to talk to. Them and then she,
Speaker 3: left and then they tried to bring me and put
Speaker 3: me in a, lineup AND i was, LIKE i don't
Speaker 3: want to go into land up without my. Lawyer they was,
Speaker 3: like you have to go on the line, up AND
Speaker 3: i went in like three full lineups AND i remember
Speaker 3: one line, UP i was number. Three they said it
Speaker 3: was number five and then never came, up and they
Speaker 3: put me in to Suggest. Atlanta i'm In. Atlanta i'm
Speaker 3: the only person as young with no facial everybody else
Speaker 3: older than me and. Everything so it's it's like if
Speaker 3: y'all giving a description of, something look he's right.
Speaker 1: Here so with his own potential murder Charges Aaron jones,
Speaker 1: AGAIN i D darien and then they dragged in the
Speaker 1: gas station Attended Jody.
Speaker 2: Tony when they brought into the, station they showed him
Speaker 2: a picture Of darien and, said you, know this is
Speaker 2: the guy we have as a, shooter and he said
Speaker 2: that is not the. Shooter they had him look at the.
Speaker 2: Lineup he did not pick out dary and he said
Speaker 2: the shooter is not in that, lineup and they tried
Speaker 2: to get him to Identify dariy and he said he
Speaker 2: wouldn't do, it and they tried to pressure him and
Speaker 2: all of, that and he wouldn't do. It he was
Speaker 2: never called a, trial so we later got an affidavit
Speaker 2: from him where he identifies who the actual shooter.
Speaker 1: Was but that was many years. Later for, Now Jody
Speaker 1: tony was ignored For Dexter saffold and the victim's, Brother Ronald.
Speaker 1: Moore despite saffolds dubious, accounts the police valued his id
Speaker 1: and Then. Ronald why would the brother of the victim
Speaker 1: id someone that doesn't match his own initial description both
Speaker 1: height and.
Speaker 3: Hair sometimes in the streets like guys or rather lead
Speaker 3: other guys out.
Speaker 2: There we've had that in several cases where when we
Speaker 2: find out why they implicated the wrong, person it was
Speaker 2: because they wanted to take care of it.
Speaker 3: Themselves he put me in a situation because you feel,
Speaker 3: like ba't me not doing? It they would have let me.
Speaker 3: Go but that's not how the system works. Here once
Speaker 3: they get any type of, name they don't care to
Speaker 3: do their job to make sure the case is. Closed
Speaker 3: they just make up create things to get you out the.
Speaker 3: Way and that's why so many guys that's wrongfully. Convicted
Speaker 3: it's in the conserrated right now because police don't do
Speaker 3: their job and the state's attorney don't, care and they get.
Speaker 3: Immunity so you think they care if they create a
Speaker 3: situation just to make somebody go to jail just to
Speaker 3: close their, case they.
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Speaker 3: YEAH i was in the police station for about two.
Speaker 3: Days THEN i was taken To Cook county and. Process
Speaker 3: THEN i wasn't prepared for, it but in a WAY
Speaker 3: i had a little bit of street smarts because you
Speaker 3: know that's WHERE i come. From you, know this is my,
Speaker 3: neighborhood is how to grow. Up but the gym's around
Speaker 3: about real grown men fighting real murders, Too and they
Speaker 3: got knaves and they game banging and gang fights go,
Speaker 3: on drug dealing going, on and rapees going. On so
Speaker 3: you have to learn to adapt to your surroundings situation
Speaker 3: of what's going. On or get, loss you get, cute
Speaker 3: you get, rip you get beat, up you get. Extoreded
Speaker 3: and that's How jill.
Speaker 1: Is sounds like hell On. Earth and so there you.
Speaker 1: Are what did they set? Bail you never saw the streets.
Speaker 3: Again they didnam on bonn and SAID i was a minister,
Speaker 3: SOCIETY i shouldn't be let out on the. Streets AND
Speaker 3: i never called a case of damn my. LIFE i
Speaker 3: bet you've been. ARRESTED i was encountered three years three.
Speaker 1: Years jesus Christ darien was charged with aggravated battery with a,
Speaker 1: firearm attempted, murder and first degree, murder and at the grand, Jury, Jones,
Speaker 1: moore And saffoled reaffirmed their. Identifications but Now ronald said
Speaker 1: that he Saw jones Drop darien off at the gas
Speaker 1: station and then, leave so a new. Inconsistency and then
Speaker 1: he said that he Recognized darien from this rap, video
Speaker 1: even though we know that he hadn't seen that video
Speaker 1: until after the.
Speaker 2: Shooting there were a ton of issues with his. Identification
Speaker 2: he initially accused someone, else and then he also was
Speaker 2: in the backseat of his car and claimed the shooter
Speaker 2: pointed the gun at, him but the video shows that
Speaker 2: the shooter didn't point the gun at, Him so there
Speaker 2: are a ton of issues with him and with his,
Speaker 2: testimony the brothers' statements and dexter saffold, statements those changed
Speaker 2: every time they told what.
Speaker 1: Happened this, Time saffold said that he had chased after
Speaker 1: the shooter on his, scooter which is not supported by the.
Speaker 1: Video but, Importantly saffold explained why he wrote a scooter
Speaker 1: that his diabetes had caused a, stroke and we'll get
Speaker 1: to why that's important. Later At darrin's bench trial in
Speaker 1: front Of Judge Nicholas, ford.
Speaker 2: This judge is notorious in the, end was run off
Speaker 2: the bench In Cook county because of his actions in
Speaker 2: a lot of, cases and then he ended up A
Speaker 2: trump appointee an immigration judge In california and was run
Speaker 2: off the bench there for being, racist, ableist. Etc and
Speaker 2: so he's currently not a, judge but he has a
Speaker 2: long history of problems with his judicial.
Speaker 1: Conduct darien's bench trou began In march of twenty. Fourteen
Speaker 1: Again Ronald moore testified about Seeing jones Drop darien off
Speaker 1: and leave that he Recognized darien from the rap, video
Speaker 1: and then he made an in court. Identification next up
Speaker 1: Was Aaron, jones but that didn't go as a prosecution had.
Speaker 2: Planned he starts testifying and then he immediately recants and he,
Speaker 2: says you know, what, man fuck. This none of this.
Speaker 2: Happened the police made me say, This they threatened. Me
Speaker 2: what would you. DO i had a newborn. Baby darien
Speaker 2: was never in my. Car this never. Happened and the judge,
Speaker 2: Says i'm holding you in direct contempt just because he's,
Speaker 2: recanting maybe because he's. CURSING i don't. Know the state
Speaker 2: had not asked him to Hold Aaron jones in. Contempt
Speaker 2: But Aaron jones, says do whatever you need to do to, me,
Speaker 2: MAN i don't care. Anymore this is. Wrong so that
Speaker 2: basically ends the state's questioning of.
Speaker 1: Him during the crossing, examination Mister jones, elaborated saying that
Speaker 1: the police had told him what to say or he
Speaker 1: would quote rot in prison for the rest of his.
Speaker 1: Life jes said that the police showed him your photograph
Speaker 1: there and told him to pick you as the, gunman
Speaker 1: of Course. Jones the detective then testifies that he interviewed
Speaker 1: them multiple times and never threatened. Them but what we
Speaker 1: expect you.
Speaker 3: Have Aaron, Jones they, said the police, Officer Devin jones
Speaker 3: can hurst him to say what he. Said you have
Speaker 3: the add witness from the gas, Station Jody. Tunya they
Speaker 3: said That Devin jones can hurst him to say what he.
Speaker 3: Said you got the victim's. Brother this original statement did
Speaker 3: the shooter was fast seven and all, That but he
Speaker 3: changed the statement once he talked to Detective Devin. Jones
Speaker 3: so you have to say alficer basically conhurst him into
Speaker 3: what to say with this overlooked.
Speaker 1: Though then the state put On Dexter, saffold who appears
Speaker 1: to be a willing participant in story time With Detective Devin.
Speaker 1: Jones but that's even worse than.
Speaker 2: That as he's, testifying the defense council asks him about
Speaker 2: his vision because he's diabetic and there are often vision
Speaker 2: issues with, that and he starts looking at the state
Speaker 2: and this is all on the, record it's in the,
Speaker 2: transcripts and the defense council says to the, judge can
Speaker 2: you order him to? Answer he keeps looking at the
Speaker 2: state and the Witness dexter, SAYS i thought that medical
Speaker 2: was supposed to be. Private the judge, said, well usually it,
Speaker 2: is but your ability to see is critical to the,
Speaker 2: case so you have to. Answer and he says he
Speaker 2: doesn't have any vision. Issues and that's where the case really,
Speaker 2: unraveled because on post conviction is discovered that he at
Speaker 2: the time was permanently and legally.
Speaker 3: Blind at the state's ATTORNEY, knwda this person was legally.
Speaker 3: Bland so he, SAID i thought my medical was. Private
Speaker 3: how did he know that his medical was? PRIVATE i
Speaker 3: mean he told him, that.
Speaker 1: But neither the defense nor the judge knew, that as
Speaker 1: was made abundantly clear By Judge ford's closing statement as
Speaker 1: he Sentenced darien to seventy six, years.
Speaker 3: He said aloud that he don't believe nobody. Else he's
Speaker 3: based in this fan based on the old. Man that's
Speaker 3: your sulf of. Testimony you have an old man that seems,
Speaker 3: credible that seems, honest like he, said and he don't
Speaker 3: have nothing to rebut what he's. Saying and at the
Speaker 3: time the judge didn't know that he was legally. Blind
Speaker 3: he went on record to say that he trust this,
Speaker 3: person and y'all knew this person was legally. Blind y'all
Speaker 3: made him look like an. Asshole and my out day
Speaker 3: was twenty eighty. Two and it's like that's a hard
Speaker 3: pill to. Swallow it's, Like, Wow i'm really sentenced to
Speaker 3: seventy six years for a CRIME i didn't. Commit you
Speaker 3: hear so much about, Prison LIKE i was. PARANOID i
Speaker 3: was going through so much Because i'm, like, only first of,
Speaker 3: all they're supposed to be in. Here the second of,
Speaker 3: all these are a liver. Dish is LIKE i understand
Speaker 3: That i'm convicted of a crime at the end of damn.
Speaker 3: Human this is not how you should treat. Humans they
Speaker 3: send me the. PONTIAC i was a pontiac for three.
Speaker 3: Months that's what mentally a lot of, people they ain't
Speaker 3: never coming. Back that's.
Speaker 4: What like.
Speaker 3: Gas they cut their stomach up and rip their tests.
Speaker 3: Out they stick chicken bones and they dick hole and
Speaker 3: try to piss and their stomach blow. Up they be
Speaker 3: on the, yard they play with, Feces they put feces
Speaker 3: in their mouth shit and they mouth and spit it
Speaker 3: on each. Other they go outside with a plastic bag
Speaker 3: full of shit and be squirting it back and forth
Speaker 3: on each other like it's wow down, there like it
Speaker 3: be men having sex on the, yard like it's wow down.
Speaker 1: There it's hard to fathom that this shit goes on
Speaker 1: in this, country but it's going on right. Now it's
Speaker 1: really sickening the whole freaking. Thing SO i don't know
Speaker 1: how the hell you managed to maintain your, sanity But
Speaker 1: i'm glad you. Did and NOW i want to hear
Speaker 1: about how the hell you manage to find a way,
Speaker 1: out because that's the, miracle. RIGHT i, mean we never
Speaker 1: hear about the guys who lost their minds in, there
Speaker 1: who gave, Up, oh who did drugs or killed themselves
Speaker 1: or got. Killed, right there's a lot of innocent guys
Speaker 1: that fit that. Category but then there's guys like you
Speaker 1: who somehow or other found the strength to reach.
Speaker 2: Out.
Speaker 3: WELL i had a mentor Of his name Is Samuel,
Speaker 3: kareem and he had life in. Jail so coming into
Speaker 3: that sale with, him you, KNOW i know he was
Speaker 3: real good with the. LOSS i gave him my paperwork
Speaker 3: and he started reading and he only read like the
Speaker 3: first sixty. Pages was, LIKE i don't have to read
Speaker 3: it no. More and say why he, said because that's
Speaker 3: your way out of. Jail. Man that man led he can't.
Speaker 3: See i'm, like how do you know? That he, said
Speaker 3: Because i'm a. Diabetic he landed back the ability to.
Speaker 3: See that's why he was. Stuttering i'm, LIKE i don't
Speaker 3: know what you're telling me about, whatever AND i blew it.
Speaker 3: Off and then AFTERWARDS i asked him, like, hey you
Speaker 3: gonna read LIKE i don't have to read no. More
Speaker 3: So i'm, like all, right, whatever We i'm gonna let
Speaker 3: my lawyer take care of. It, then and that's when
Speaker 3: he started giving me cases AND i. DIDN'T i read,
Speaker 3: them BUT i didn't comprehend WHAT i was. Reading so
Speaker 3: that's when he went to his, Mentor Michael sullivan told, him, like,
Speaker 3: man you got to teach him how to be a man,
Speaker 3: first because he won't comprehend what he reading until you
Speaker 3: teach him a different way of. Life so therefore he
Speaker 3: doubled back and we start having long, conversations and that's
Speaker 3: when he started teaching me how to be a. Man
Speaker 3: he started teaching me about, responsibilities, economics, politics financial, stability emotional,
Speaker 3: stability mental, stability ways of, life the worth of a,
Speaker 3: woman everything THAT i need to succeed in life as a,
Speaker 3: man to grow and also to found my purpose in
Speaker 3: life as, well and that's WHERE i started. At then
Speaker 3: that's WHEN i doubled back on the legal, work and
Speaker 3: he gave me A Black Au dictionary AND i started
Speaker 3: reading legal, work and his way of teaching me was
Speaker 3: comparing it to real life, situations and that's HOW i started.
Speaker 3: Understanding so he made me order my, discovery and they
Speaker 3: gave him my discovery redacted because they can't give it
Speaker 3: to me. Unredacted AND i sat there AND i went
Speaker 3: through every piece of paperwork And that's WHEN i found
Speaker 3: the gas station, Attendant Jody. TONY i found a lot
Speaker 3: of more, things and that's WHEN i started writing a
Speaker 3: lot of. Lawyers And Jody garvey.
Speaker 2: Wrote me back AND i Believe, darien you told you
Speaker 2: were A pellet. Lawyer What samuel said That Dexter staffold was.
Speaker 3: Blind my new, Lawyer Jody, garvey went To Deshah staffold and,
Speaker 3: say pointed out right now In, atlanta up with the private.
Speaker 3: Vestigat he, SAID i CAN'T i need a special apparatus
Speaker 3: that magnifies the image on the. Paper that means that
Speaker 3: in the police station they had to give you a special,
Speaker 3: apparatus or they circled and told you what to. Say at,
Speaker 3: trial you, know they give you the paper and they
Speaker 3: say do you recognize his? Paper he post a look
Speaker 3: at the paper and say, yes is that your? Signature?
Speaker 3: Yes is that what you? Wrote repeat what you? Wrote
Speaker 3: which number pigeons to circle? Out how did he do
Speaker 3: all that in court with no special? Apparatus that shows
Speaker 3: you that he was conhearsed in the back on what to.
Speaker 1: Say but Despite Dexter saffold's blindness as well As Jody,
Speaker 1: Tony darien's conviction was affirmed on. Appeal Then darien Met
Speaker 1: lauren around twenty, nineteen who was able to find more new,
Speaker 1: evidence starting With Dexter saffold's litigation.
Speaker 2: History Dexter staffold had filed so many discrimination lawsuits basically
Speaker 2: alleging that different, organizations, colleges, whatever had discriminated against him
Speaker 2: because of being. Blind so he had attached to these
Speaker 2: lawsuits his own vision, records medical records related to his
Speaker 2: blindness over the. SPAN i mean he was filing these
Speaker 2: starting back in like two thousand and two till twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one maybe, after and attaching all this stuff to
Speaker 2: prove he was. Blind so that's where we got the
Speaker 2: evidence that he was. Blind it was from his own.
Speaker 1: Filings In february twenty twenty, Two lauren And Jody garvey
Speaker 1: filed a post conviction petition to Vacate darien's, conviction and
Speaker 1: they attached a report from an ophthalmologist and professor Doctor Vina,
Speaker 1: raigi who determined That saffold had advanced glaucoma by twenty
Speaker 1: eleven and had less than five degrees of central vision
Speaker 1: in both eyes and in addition to his legal, blindness
Speaker 1: the time of day that this shooting occurred Made saffold
Speaker 1: even less.
Speaker 2: Reliable Jody garby had already gotten Some affi davids from
Speaker 2: an investigator had talked To Dexter, saffold and he told
Speaker 2: the investigator that he had told the prosecution about his vision.
Speaker 1: Issues so it appears the prosecution knowingly put on a blind,
Speaker 1: eyewitness and then when he purjured himself about his ability to,
Speaker 1: see they did not bother to correct the. Record lauren
Speaker 1: also sought the help of doctor And Nancy.
Speaker 2: Franklin an eyewitness, expert to show all of the. Issues
Speaker 2: any sort of police coergion what made any sort of
Speaker 2: identification in this case unreliable from the get, go regardless of,
Speaker 2: blindness although that obviously played a big. Role, Also Jody
Speaker 2: garby had already gotten some halfi davids From darien's girlfriend
Speaker 2: at the, time who was his alibi, witness confirming that
Speaker 2: he was at home watching THE nba, Finals affi davits
Speaker 2: From Jody, tony LIKE i, said he was confirming that
Speaker 2: it Wasn't, darien and he identified the actual.
Speaker 1: Shooter, tony the gas station, attendant the only eyewitness whose
Speaker 1: statements didn't shift with the police narrative said that the
Speaker 1: shooter had come into the station before the shooting and threatened,
Speaker 1: him and he identified him from a. Photo it was
Speaker 1: a young man Named Devonte pippen Aka, slim who not
Speaker 1: only appeared in the rap video but was also later
Speaker 1: a victim of gang violence in twenty.
Speaker 2: Fourteen so we had all this, evidence it was already
Speaker 2: such a thin. Case no physical evidence ever Tied darien
Speaker 2: to the. Crime the description just didn't even. Match the
Speaker 2: judge didn't hear From Jody, tony who had always said
Speaker 2: he could see it and he knew who did, it
Speaker 2: and it always said it Wasn't. Darien so all of
Speaker 2: this just really put it over the. Edge so this
Speaker 2: Is december, fifth twenty twenty. Three we go to court
Speaker 2: and they agree to Vkate darien's conviction based on all
Speaker 2: the evidence presented in the post conviction. Petition but they're
Speaker 2: going to retry him and they want him held without bond.
Speaker 2: Again what they were going to retry him with is beyond.
Speaker 2: ME i don't know what their plan. Was they never
Speaker 2: told me if they were planning to call the blind
Speaker 2: eyewitness again or what the plan was. There but that's
Speaker 2: When jason that's when you got.
Speaker 1: Involved because, WELL i feel very grateful THAT i was
Speaker 1: in the right place at the right, time and THAT i,
Speaker 1: have you, know a real lasting friendship With Kim, fox
Speaker 1: who's been doing her level best against powerful forces that
Speaker 1: are lined against. Her and you, know her job is no,
Speaker 1: picnic trust, me but you, know it happens that she's
Speaker 1: got such a big, office so many you, know adas
Speaker 1: and others working for, her that sometimes one of them
Speaker 1: just you, know probably many of them don't share her
Speaker 1: vision or her. Convictions for lack of a better. Word of,
Speaker 1: course When kim heard about this, case she did the right.
Speaker 2: THING i get a, CALL i, think the very next
Speaker 2: day saying that they are not going to move forward
Speaker 2: with the, case and they were very apologetic about. It
Speaker 2: we were already doing up in Court december, nineteenth twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: three to argue some bond.
Speaker 3: Issues WHEN i came to, court NOW i was thinking
Speaker 3: it's a regular court. Day lauren came up like so
Speaker 3: they had the good, news AND i was, like, yeah
Speaker 3: what they gonna give me a bond or. Something she was, like,
Speaker 3: No they're gonna throw everything. Else AND i was, like
Speaker 3: LIKE i was, Shocked LIKE i ain't even believe, it
Speaker 3: AND i was just, like, WOW i really didn't feel
Speaker 3: real at.
Speaker 2: All you, Know darien has been out just a few
Speaker 2: months now and is you, know trying to rebuild his
Speaker 2: life and put everything back together after so many years.
Speaker 2: Gone and you, Know i'm he can talk about. IT i,
Speaker 2: mean it's a struggle for all of our clients to do.
Speaker 2: That so we're just trying to do what we can
Speaker 2: to help him with. That we filed for a certificate of,
Speaker 2: innocence so we'll keep you posted on that on our.
Speaker 2: End but you, know he's working through.
Speaker 3: Everything when you've been going so, long you've been removed from,
Speaker 3: society you've been moved from the world that you once.
Speaker 3: Knew me coming home, Personally i'm in a whole new
Speaker 3: world for me to be. Free it don't feel Like
Speaker 3: i'm free because mentally it's hard for me to understand
Speaker 3: and adapt to what's going. On BECAUSE i got out
Speaker 3: of jail with, nothing AND i had slight a little small, donations,
Speaker 3: yeah from the company That lauren put me into it
Speaker 3: where they gave me two thousand dollars and things like.
Speaker 3: That you, know that's, cool that's, Helpful but WHERE i
Speaker 3: was at in maximum. PENITENTIARIES i couldn't take no trades for, electrician,
Speaker 3: plumbing ac, construction. Nothing so what DO i come home.
Speaker 3: WITH i can't come home with no, degrees no school
Speaker 3: out of. Nothing so the only things THAT i know
Speaker 3: is the things THAT i took the time after studying those.
Speaker 3: Books that's the only things THAT i. Know but it
Speaker 3: takes money to make that type of. Money and they
Speaker 3: put us in these situations hoping that we do. Reoffend
Speaker 3: that's why they put us out here like. This why
Speaker 3: not put us out and, say, hey we got jobs
Speaker 3: waiting on, y'all good, jobs not no twelve thirteen dollars
Speaker 3: an hour, job because as a grown, man especially with,
Speaker 3: kids what is that going to? Pay we need real,
Speaker 3: jobs we need real, help and we don't have that
Speaker 3: to preaching.
Speaker 1: Today i'll tell you that, much and and we appreciate.
Speaker 1: It we need to hear this. Stuff and what's the name?
Speaker 1: Again this is a real hero in this. Case another
Speaker 1: one is your mentor what was his name?
Speaker 3: Again his name Is Samuel kareem KA R I. M
Speaker 3: he's currently located In Stateville Correctional. Center and, honestly that's
Speaker 3: the guy that changed me that's the guy That i'm
Speaker 3: fighting to get out of jail because he's the smartest
Speaker 3: MAN i ever. Met he has a training out of
Speaker 3: mask all day every, day he read his, books study case.
Speaker 3: Law he grows man so. Much just the type of
Speaker 3: man that we need out here in these communities to
Speaker 3: start changing, things to start creating opportunities not only for,
Speaker 3: us but for everybody as a, whole where we come
Speaker 3: together as. One that's what we lack coming. Up we
Speaker 3: lack role, models we lack positive man in our life
Speaker 3: and things like.
Speaker 1: That darren asked that we win in competition for clemency
Speaker 1: for his, Mentor Samuel, Kareem so we're going to have
Speaker 1: that length in the episode. Description and in addition to his,
Speaker 1: Advocacy darien is making, music also starting a nonprofit and
Speaker 1: launching a, Podcast justice Is.
Speaker 3: Blind it's a podcast for me to give a platform
Speaker 3: to everybody that's incoscerated all over the world to call
Speaker 3: in and tell their, story rather they was wrongfully, convicted
Speaker 3: or the trauma that they're going through a jail all
Speaker 3: the way the police treating, them or they just want
Speaker 3: to be heard because in, jail with our silence and
Speaker 3: don't nobody listen to. Us don't nobody give us a.
Speaker 3: Chance everybody look at us as, criminals but everybody in
Speaker 3: jail not bad. People people could. CHANGE a sin is a,
Speaker 3: sining a crime is a. Crime people may have committed
Speaker 3: their crimes and people may have done their, things but
Speaker 3: at the end of the, day they're, human they make.
Speaker 3: Mistakes give them a chance to write they. Wrong so
Speaker 3: that's When i'm creating this platform for, them guys in
Speaker 3: jail to speak out and to have a. Voice and
Speaker 3: Also i'm starting um For Perfect Call surviving a struggle
Speaker 3: for guys that's incarcerated as. Well the partner or with
Speaker 3: the law firm and everybody that's wrongfully CONVICTED i had
Speaker 3: their case, over would look to have their case tooking
Speaker 3: so they can have legal. Support and Also i'm going
Speaker 3: to create programs link up with people to have, construction, electrician,
Speaker 3: plumbing everything of that, nature so when guys get out
Speaker 3: of jail they have a good job to come home.
Speaker 3: Too and trying to find a way to find them
Speaker 3: like affordable has look at like a house of complex
Speaker 3: or something for a guys to state that don't have
Speaker 3: nowhere to. Go everything is currently in the making right
Speaker 3: now should be done within the next few, months but
Speaker 3: you can follow me On instagram at k at n
Speaker 3: g c ch U Cky underscore FR e D A
Speaker 3: r E A. L AND i have a go fundme
Speaker 3: which is Called justice Is, blind or you just put
Speaker 3: In Dariel harriy's and support me and my calls to
Speaker 3: just help me out with living expenses and for the
Speaker 3: non for.
Speaker 1: Profit, well we're gonna link Your instagram and the GoFundMe as,
Speaker 1: well and with that we're gonna go to my favorite
Speaker 1: part of the show where first of, ALL i think
Speaker 1: both of, You lauren And, darien you're both heroes to
Speaker 1: me and so many other, people and SO i appreciate
Speaker 1: you joining us here. Today and Now i'm just going
Speaker 1: to kick back in my chair with my microphone off
Speaker 1: and just listen to anything else you feel is left
Speaker 1: to be. Said So, lauren tradition holes that you go,
Speaker 1: first And darien you take us off into the.
Speaker 2: SUNSET i just hope that people listen to this episode
Speaker 2: and they take away from the fact that this kind
Speaker 2: of thing can really happen to. Anyone darien had never
Speaker 2: committed a, Crime he had never been, arrested he was
Speaker 2: a good. Kid the only thing was where he. LIVED i,
Speaker 2: mean he got picked up just by virtue of living
Speaker 2: in a certain, neighborhood being a certain, color and the
Speaker 2: evidence was made to fit. Him and he had a
Speaker 2: really bright future in front of him that was stolen from,
Speaker 2: him and he lost out on so much time that
Speaker 2: he is never going to get back in very very formative.
Speaker 2: Years we are actually very lucky in his, case which
Speaker 2: is crazy to say that we were able to get
Speaker 2: him out when he can still build a life and
Speaker 2: build a. Family And darien WANTS i think last count
Speaker 2: sixteen kids. Crazy he wants a lot of. Children we'll
Speaker 2: see after he has one how he feels about. That
Speaker 2: but he'll be a wonderful. Dad he has so many
Speaker 2: things he wants to do to change the, world and
Speaker 2: he's already starting to do. It And i'm just so
Speaker 2: proud to know him and i can't wait to see
Speaker 2: all the things that he's going to. Accomplish someone with
Speaker 2: the kind of light That darien, has they can't keep
Speaker 2: that down and they can't snuff it. Out So i'm
Speaker 2: just so grateful to be here today with him and
Speaker 2: to be a witness to his.
Speaker 3: LIFE i just want to say THAT i Appreciate lauren
Speaker 3: the most because she stepped in and did everything and
Speaker 3: just still on the business for. Real And Jody, garf
Speaker 3: he helped me out a lot as. Well AND i
Speaker 3: just want to let everybody know that everything That i'm
Speaker 3: doing to help free to jails and those people that's
Speaker 3: growfully and, convicted or even the people that is serving
Speaker 3: a town doing this for the black families and the
Speaker 3: mothers that have to go through this because they are
Speaker 3: incarcerated as. Well you, know they're not the only people that's.
Speaker 3: Concerated AND i understand what it means to be in
Speaker 3: jail and be. Stereotypes so IF i can get out
Speaker 3: and show them that all black people that come from
Speaker 3: jail not this and not THAT i want to become
Speaker 3: that stereotype to show them like we not that type of.
Speaker 3: People like it's people that can actually. Change it's people
Speaker 3: that can come from WHERE i come from and make
Speaker 3: better themselves as well and be not all the. Same you,
Speaker 3: know it's actually good people still left in this. World
Speaker 3: i'm just looking to help. EVERYBODY i know my purpose
Speaker 3: in life is to help, People So i'm gonna follow
Speaker 3: my purpose and chase my. Dreams i'm gonna continue to
Speaker 3: help everybody and do EVERYTHING i gotta do and make
Speaker 3: a positive. Change i'm just gonna continue to stick to doing.
Speaker 1: Me thank you for listening to ron For. Conviction you
Speaker 1: can listen to this and all The lava For good
Speaker 1: podcasts one week early by subscribing To lava For Good
Speaker 1: plus On Apple. PODCASTS i want to thank our production,
Speaker 1: Team Connor hall And Kathleen, fink as well as my
Speaker 1: fellow executive Producers Jeff, Kempler Kevin, wartis And Jeff. Cliburn
Speaker 1: the music in this production was supplied by three TIME
Speaker 1: oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us
Speaker 1: across all social media platforms At lava For good and
Speaker 1: At Wrongful. Conviction you can also follow me On instagram
Speaker 1: At It's Jason. Flamm Wrongful conviction is a production Of
Speaker 1: lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company number.
Speaker 4: One. Hi my name Is Amanda. Graham i've written down
Speaker 4: WHAT i want to say SO i don't start. Rambling
Speaker 4: BUT i began listening To Wrongful conviction about exactly eight year.
Speaker 4: AGO i was on a hunt for a new podcast
Speaker 4: to binge on AND i became. HOOKED i was so
Speaker 4: shocked by these. Stories the story that changed my, life,
Speaker 4: though was episode three forty eight With Zaban. Johnson at
Speaker 4: this same time that this, aired an old high school
Speaker 4: friend of mine was on her second trial for the
Speaker 4: death of an infant in her. Care from the DAY
Speaker 4: i heard she was, ARRESTED i knew in my guts
Speaker 4: no way she would hurt a, baby AND i believed
Speaker 4: there had to be some other. Explanation so suddenly things
Speaker 4: began making sense to. Me i'm actually AN, rn and
Speaker 4: SO i questioned EVERYTHING i had been taught ABOUT sbs
Speaker 4: and began plummeting into. RESEARCH i spent hours and hours and.
Speaker 4: HOURS i made a binder with highlighted, points case files
Speaker 4: with similar, details a list of ways convictions were. OVERTURNED
Speaker 4: i listened to every podcast about every CASE i could.
Speaker 4: FIND i passed on WHAT i had learned To, ali the,
Speaker 4: defendant but it was too. Late the trial had already.
Speaker 4: Began she was convicted of second degree murder and sentenced
Speaker 4: to fifty years in. Prison there is so much that
Speaker 4: is wrong in this. Case this sparked a fire in.
Speaker 4: ME i closed and sold my. BUSINESS i got a
Speaker 4: certificate In legal Nurse consulting from The university Of. GEORGIA
Speaker 4: i provided her new attorney with data and case. Information
Speaker 4: i've spoken out publicly in her, defense And i'm hoping
Speaker 4: in some way to be able to help other people
Speaker 4: who have been wrongfully convicted of murder by shaking baby
Speaker 4: syndrome and change the way these cases are. Handled your
Speaker 4: podcasting connection to this case has truly changed my. Life