WEBVTT - Rest first, with Dr. Adam Sandell 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:06.880 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.520 Good Morning, This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.120 Today's episode is going to be a slightly longer one 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.320 part of the series where I interview fascinating people about 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.080 how they take their days from great to awesome and 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.799 any advice they have for the rest of us. So 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.400 today I am delighted to walk up. Welcome doctor Adam 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.800 Sandal to Before Breakfast. Adam is a physician working in 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.320 rural Canada. He teaches at the University of British Columbia 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.000 and writes the Great Work newsletter on Substack. So Adam, 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:40.000 welcome to the show. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.280 Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.520 Yeah, I'm decided to have you as well. Why don't 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.440 you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:52.519 Sure, I've had a fairly crazy life, so as anyone 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:56.520 sharped can hear. I grew up in the UK with 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:01.400 mixed British and American parentage, trained as a doctor and 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.800 worked as a doctor for about twenty years in the 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.640 UK before moving to Canada right at the beginning of 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:13.240 the pandemic. I've also the craziness, you know, I've spent 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.840 ten years while working as a doctor, also working as 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.760 a human rights lawyer. That was in the UK, and 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.800 I've also spent quite a lot of time in other 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.000 parts of the world, helping to develop healthcare services in 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.600 places like Africa and India in the Middle East. But 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.360 I now I am now in Western Canada and rural 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:36.480 Western Canada, where I work on what Americans call a reservation, 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.320 what Canadians call a reserve with an indigenous population here 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.040 in British Columbia. 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.640 And you are off on a tiny island, I understand, correct. 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.400 That's right, kind of tucked into Vancouver Island and in fact, 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:51.720 and I love telling people this. At the moment, my 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.760 commute to work involves me getting in a kayak and 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:56.560 kayaking across the small channel. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.000 So that's your company vehicle, that's right, You're exactly right. 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:02.600 And it's my first company vehicle. 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.840 I was very proud when I bought it. Yeah, so 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:06.360 that's true. 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.680 I mean, rural healthcare does not tend to come with 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.360 company vehicles, I suppose. 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.520 But maybe I can tell people what that's like. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:14.919 You know, many of my listeners probably have more the 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.240 suburban or urban sorts. You know, they think about just 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.120 going to the doctor or hospital for healthcare? How's that 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.400 different in rural Canada and especially with indigenous populations. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.480 You know, it's something that I didn't when I moved 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.280 from the UK. I didn't even know still existed in 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.760 high income countries where you've got doctors doing what I think, 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.880 you know, doctors were doing fifty years ago, in the 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.399 places where many of us live now, many people live 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:42.560 now just doing everything. And in fact, for several years 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.120 here I worked in an even more remote community than 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:50.160 I do now, where we did do everything until things 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.519 got beyond our expertise, and then if we could, we'd 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.560 fly them out to a bigger center. But it is. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.360 It's a kind of medicine, a kind of healthcare that 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.080 I think in so always people still yearn for, where 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.919 you have a doctor who deals with pretty much everything 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.280 for you. They see you in the emergency room, they're 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.680 the family physician that you see in the clinic, and 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.920 they're doing everything in between, insofar as you're capable of 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:16.359 doing that. 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.000 And now we're going to talk about time management in 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.760 a minute, because you had told me that you thought 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:24.760 you were not so good at time management. 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.480 But it tells me, you know, you're dealing with you 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:31.280 never know going into a day what is going to happen. 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.600 I mean, you're dealing with every single ailment that could 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.320 befall a community or people's regular run of show health needs. 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:46.400 So how does one even think about time when a 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.520 day could bring truly anything. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.560 It's such a great question that and I think you 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.960 know some of it. In really reactive jobs like that, 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.280 all you can do is figure out what the most 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.320 important thing to do next is and then do that. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.960 You know, and there's always the most important thing to 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.840 do next, and you just do one of those after 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:09.680 the other after the other, and you hope that at 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.360 some point you come up for a and have got 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.360 through your responsibilities that day or that night or that 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:19.400 or that shift. But there's a you know, there's there's 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.760 a skill to doing that, it seems to me, because 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.159 you can get so submerged in it that you stop 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:30.760 being aware of who you are and how you are doing. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.240 And you know, when I was a resident, it took 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.920 me a while to realize that actually you have to 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:39.960 go to the bathroom and if you're you know, if 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.560 you're working really long shifts, you have to have breaks 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:48.159 and eat because because otherwise you are going to start work, 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.400 You're going to feel terrible, and you're going to start 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.240 working really and effectively, and actually you're going to have 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.520 a much worse day than you otherwise would be. So 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.440 there is this thing of kind of maintaining kind of 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.800 higher out tude view of how you're doing and thinking, no, 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:04.919 even though there are still people waiting, I have to 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.200 stop now, and I need to drink some fluids, and 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.640 I need to just pause and not think about the 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:12.840 next thing I'm worrying about, just for a few minutes 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:14.520 so I can get my head straightened out. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.479 A very important lesson for sure. Well let's talk about 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:19.440 time management. Though. 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.160 What if you found hardest about time management? 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.760 Yeah, I mean I think there are a bunch of things, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.600 and one of them for me was thinking that there 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.440 was one change that I could make which was going 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:36.279 to fix everything. And I'm you know, I love reading, 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.760 you know, listening to podcasts like this one and reading 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.000 books about how I can improve my life, and when 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.680 you do, you have this kind of honeymoon effect of 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:48.480 thinking that everything is going to be You've solved the 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.040 problem and everything's going to get better. And it took 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.680 me some time and then it does for a little bit, 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.400 you feel more in control, and then a few weeks 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:00.240 later things are not that much different. And it took 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.160 me some time to realize that this is a life's project. 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.679 You know, you haven't failed by not solving the problem 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.080 overnight by reading someone's fantastic book. And these are fantastic 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.719 books and you know, and podcasts and advice advice that 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.599 people have, but there isn't one solution. This is a 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.599 you know, this is a process that you learn and 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.880 you gradually get better at it. And I've been doing 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.120 this for you know, nearly thirty years now, and I 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.799 am so much better than I was. But that wasn't 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.280 That wasn't you know, one big jump that I suddenly 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:34.160 made when someone's brain, you know, wonderful idea change transformed 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.719 my life. It was a series of small, incremental things, 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:40.600 you know. So that's one thing. And then another thing 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:45.320 I think for me has been recognizing that this isn't 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:51.279 it's not just about techniques, it's about perspectives. So you know, you, yeah, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.400 you can learn how to time box, and that's great, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.760 and that helps you if you're a time boxy kind 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.320 of person. And I think if you're not a time 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.440 I am a bit. If you're not a time boxy 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.880 kind of person, then it's terrifying and awful. But but 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.200 you need to understand why you're doing that and have 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.400 have that kind of perspective shift that goes with it, 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.960 and one that you know you You make this point 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.960 I think in several of your books, including Big Time, 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.400 which I've just read and I love, which is that 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.920 you have enough time. The problem is not that you 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.440 don't have enough time. And I you know, fundamentally agree 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.240 with you about that, but it took me a long 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:35.760 time to learn it that if you're you're fretting about 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.520 not having enough time, you are fretting about the wrong problem. 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:40.880 That that's not that's not how you need to solve 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.320 your time management problems. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:44.920 Well, we're going to take a quick break and then 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.760 we're going to think about how we do solve our 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:56.679 time management problems. Right after this, well, I am back 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.000 talking with doctor Adam Sandal, who is a physician practice 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:01.520 thing in rural Canada. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.600 He is also the author of the Great Work newsletter 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:05.480 on Substack. 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.920 So you mentioned that in your time management journey there 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.040 had been a lot of small incremental steps that were helpful. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.240 I wonder if you can share one or two of 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.360 those that were helpful for you, and that might be 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.240 helpful for other people who are listening to this. 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:27.520 The biggest one for me has been recognizing how important 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:36.160 rest is, that how important breaks are, and making sure 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:42.240 that I adequately prioritize them, because my instinct always when 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.600 I feel as though I have too much to do, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.560 is to do the stuff that I feel like I 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:52.040 need to be doing. And you know, there's a bunch 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.640 of problems with that, one of which is that there 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.800 are always more than you can ever possibly do, so 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.120 you have to prioritize. And the second is that if 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.280 you don't, if you don't make sure if rest and 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.880 breaks and things that allow you to feel better and 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.120 then in fact make life meaningful aren't in there, then 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:16.520 they're not going to get done. So so that that 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.520 that piece of advice, which to me feels like permission 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:21.880 to do what I actually want to do, which is 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:24.800 to sit on the deck and read a book, or 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.440 go for a walk, or spend time with my partner 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.640 or you know, whatever it may be, that that recognition 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.720 that actually that's at least as important as all of 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:36.959 the other things that I'm worrying about getting done. That's 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.840 been a huge transformative thing for me. 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.880 Well, and that's interesting that you refer to those as rest, 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.520 because those are activities. The three things you just mentioned 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.800 that reading a book, yep, going for a walk, spending 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.040 time with a loved one. Yeah, that's that's not lying 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.280 on the bed watching TV. I mean, those are all 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.640 active choices. So I'm curious if you can talk a 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.160 little bit about this idea of rest as a category 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.200 that's about rejuvenation and not so much about just doing nothing, 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.319 if it were even possible to do nothing. 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.160 Yeah, And people use all kinds of terminology for this 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.800 and distinguish between rest and leisure, and you know, and 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.160 I think it's easy to get a little bit kind 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:23.160 of hung up on that. I guess I'm talking about 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.680 doing the things that I most want to be doing 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.160 that don't feel like obligations, you know, because there's a 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.800 sense much I love my work, and I you know, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.120 I love doing stuff like this, but it's it's you know, 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.280 it keeps me alert and active and having to think 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.560 hard about it. And I guess the things that are 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.920 most important to me, and I think to all of us. 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:47.480 We need to have time to do this are time 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:51.160 to allow our minds to wander into daydream or to 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.959 think the big thoughts, so you know, and that may 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:59.400 that definitely does include you know, watching We're watching six 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:01.240 feet under It at the moment, which I've never seen 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.120 before and I'm loving and that, you know, I get 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.600 a huge amount from that. And that's one of those 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.800 things for me. Going for a walk, Yeah, is it 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.240 an activity? I suppose so, but it's not a chore. 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.600 It's something I just love doing, you know, and or 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.280 you know, or reading, reading, reading a good book, or 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.600 you know, even sometimes I can find just doing stuff 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:22.640 pottering around in the garden, you know, mowing the lawn 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.920 that you know, that actually just gets me outside and 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.040 it's a little bit physical and that feels good. So 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.080 what it is for you and what it is for 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:33.440 me are probably going to be different. Although interestingly, when 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.800 big surveys are done on this, we they it often 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.160 boils down to you know, half a dozen or a 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.000 dozen things that most of us would identify as things 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:43.920 that you know, make us feel better. But the key 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.680 thing is to you know, it's not scrolling Instagram. You know, 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.640 that may be a break. But it isn't. It doesn't 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.320 leave you feeling invigorated and energized and that the life 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.199 is good when you finish doing it. You could just 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.440 kind of feel slightly dirty and ashamed of yourself. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:11:59.680 Sometimes we are deer. 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.560 So another topic you talk about, you said, it's the reaction, 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:05.120 not the stuff. 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:06.640 What do you mean by that? 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:13.040 So I'm unashamed to say that I have often found 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.400 my work stressful, and I think that goes for many 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.240 of us, you know, no matter what what your job 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:24.920 may be. And and there was a you know, this 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.160 was one of those perspective shifts that I was talking 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.240 about a moment ago that was, you know, part of 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:36.640 this kind of cumulative life changing, life changing thing that 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:41.920 that often when you are getting stressed about something, if 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:48.920 you look at your reaction the stress first, it will 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.400 it turns out that whatever you are getting stressed about 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.079 is much less of a thing than you were thinking 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:01.240 it was. And you know this is you know, there 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:06.640 is strains of this in Buddhist and Stoic philosophy. There's 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.640 that quote from Hamlet, which I think I can get 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.560 away with because of my accent. There is nothing either 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:17.160 good or bad, but thinking makes it. So it's you know, 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.880 you find it in a lot of modern day thinking 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.199 about about how we can live our lives better, including 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.079 cognitive behavioral therapy that you know, that most effective, most 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:31.559 evidence based form of psychological therapy that you know, if 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:35.600 you are worried that you have done something wrong and 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:37.640 you are going to get in huge trouble or this 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.880 is going to have an enormous impact on your career 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.480 or on the people your work serves, and you're losing 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.920 sleep over that, Actually unpicking that and figuring out whether 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:53.960 that is really accurate and thinking about how helpful to 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.240 you the reaction that you are having to it is 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.680 being can often be the most helpful thing you can 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:01.760 do in that situation. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.960 So tell me how you started the great work substack. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.720 What led to your decision to try and share your 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.280 ideas on you know, time and management with other people. 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.200 This crazy career that I have had has taken me 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:20.880 to an awful lot of different work settings of one 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.760 sort or another, in medicine and in law, and in 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:28.280 different continents and just very different approaches to doing things. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:34.880 And I, you know, after some years, began to realize 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:39.480 that the struggles that I have with my working life 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.440 are struggles that lots of people have with their working 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.720 lives and that and I have got this kind of 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.040 engineering mindset where if I've got a problem, I kind 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.840 of try and figure out ways to fix it, and 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.800 I'm interested in evidence based ways that actually do work. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.320 I'm one of those people who gets put off by 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.720 wo and pseudoscience, but I want something practical that I 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.280 can do that makes a difference. And there came a 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.400 point where I felt that I'd figured out enough of 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.120 these people and increasingly had enough of these problems, and 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:14.040 increasingly had helped enough for other people to figure out 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.680 solutions to their own problems that I thought there's something 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.840 here that I want to start sharing with people, And 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.880 so started the sub stack and working on a book 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.600 about the same stuff, and have been delighted to discover 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.080 that this is things. This is information that people really 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.880 want to hear and seem to find useful if it's practical. 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.440 Absolutely, people always like practical things. We're all about practical 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.720 here absolutely. And another thing we also like here before 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.800 breakfast is morning routines. And I understand that you have one. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.280 Yeah, And I'm slightly obsessive about it and get a 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.120 little bit stressed if I am unable to follow it 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.160 and then tell myself, no, it's the reaction, not the stuff. 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:55.720 Today is going to be fine. Yeah, I mean, and 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.440 this is kind of slowly evolved, and it will probably 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.960 continue to involve to evolve. I get up, and I'm 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:05.880 pretty disciplined about not switching on devices or checking anything 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.520 for a while, just so that I have a little 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:13.200 bit of mourning before I start to get consumed. I meditate. 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.560 I do some mindfulness meditation literally for maybe no more 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.560 than two or three minutes. Sometimes it's significantly longer than that, 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.360 but two or three minutes makes a huge difference to 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.840 my day. Recently, because I'm in my fifties now, started 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.160 doing again just a few minutes of yoga every morning, 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.360 and that makes me feel way better for the rest 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.680 of the day too. And two or three times a 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.040 week we'll lift some weights. All of this is just 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.160 for a few minutes. The whole thing is just, you know, 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.160 it's brief, it's easy to fit in there. And then 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:48.680 I sit down and I have this quite formulaic process 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.200 that I go through. I start by writing just a 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.160 few pages of I don't know, it's a cross between 0:16:55.280 --> 0:17:00.000 diary and what people call morning pages, just getting stuff 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.880 out there. And I do find, as people who do 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:07.280 morning pages do that if there's something that if there's 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:09.760 a decision that I've been struggling with, often just a 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.000 few sentences on the page and it's figured out for 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:17.000 me in my mind. And then you know, I have 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.360 a task management app on my phone and my computer 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.240 and I have a look at what's popped up today 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.600 and sort them out and cross off a bunch of 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.560 things or postpone them and have a think about how 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:31.400 my day is going to go. I also look at 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.760 a list that I keep, just a short bullet point 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.920 thing of my big priorities in life, and I look 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.239 at that every morning. And the reason I do that 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.560 is that it is so easy to get off track, 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.400 especially during busy or stressful times, and I just find 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.879 it helpful each morning to look at that list of 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:53.600 what is my life, what do I want my life 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.640 to be about, and make sure that things are as 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.359 on track as they can be, and if not, think well, 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.480 what am I going to do about that today? How 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:03.920 am I going to fit in an hour of whatever 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.800 it is that's most important to me today? And that's 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.440 and By the end of that process, I feel like 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:11.639 I'm ready to get going with to. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.280 Day for sure. 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.639 Well, it's always good to look at our goals and 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.120 refamiliarize ourselves with them. We're going to take a quick 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:19.840 ad break and then I'll be back with more from 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:29.520 doctor Adam Sandal. Well, I am back talking with doctor 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.359 Adam Sandal who is a physician in rural Canada, teaches 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.040 at the University of British Columbia, and writes the Great 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.119 Work newsletter on substack. 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.240 So you've seen a lot of time management. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.639 Advice, You've seen you've read a lot of productivity and 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.520 self help books over the years. I'm curious if you 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.480 tried something that most definitely did not work for you. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.560 Oh wow, what a good question. Let me think that through. 0:18:55.400 --> 0:19:00.000 I mean the things that the things that I find 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:05.679 in the hardest are things that just come across to 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:12.959 me as too tree hugging and pseudoscientific. And I mean, 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:17.639 I'll give you one. I'll give you one example. I 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:23.520 was involved in a great team building session led by 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:35.000 an external facilitator recently which suddenly dove into the world 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.640 of polyvagel theory. Now, I don't know if you've heard 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.119 of polyvagel theory, but it's big out there in in 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:48.360 kind of work performance kind of psychology stuff, and it's 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:53.760 made up. It's pseudoscience. And what it does is it 0:19:54.119 --> 0:20:01.480 slaps a fancy sounding scientific, key sounding label on some 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:06.600 kind of basically good advice and makes it way more 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:11.760 complicated than it needs to be. And I can't stand 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:16.000 that because I think it's dishonest. I think it it 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.399 doesn't actually help people to it to attach labels, and 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.200 it warps the advice away from what might be the 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.760 most useful to make it sound like this kind of special, 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.439 fancy kind of science y thing, and I find it 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.600 very difficult to engage with that. And goodness me, I 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.479 had to bite my tongue because actually this was a 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.159 really good session and I didn't want to undermine that 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:41.640 or the facilitator, but that that stuff I find really 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.200 And I know I'm coming at this as a doctor, 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.320 you know, as someone as someone who is a bit 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.080 sciencing myself, but that really turns me off. 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.720 Yeah, well, I think the group facilitation right there probably 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.520 turned me off. I'm really not into any sort of 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.280 forced group bonding activity, but good. 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:01.200 For you for being part of it. So Adam. 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.159 I ask, oh, my guests, what is something you have 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.080 done recently to take a day from great to awesome? 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:06.720 We know that this. 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.520 Pseudoscience group facilitation stuff was taking a day maybe a 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.639 little worse. What's something you've had a good day and 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:13.479 made it better. 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:17.640 There's I mean, there's two things I want to say, 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:19.600 and one I'm just going to say in passing because 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:23.879 any day in which I can walk in nature for 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.520 the purposes of walking, so I'm not getting somewhere necessarily, 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.440 but just for the purpose of walking, that is going 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:35.160 to be a great day. But from from great to awesome. 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:37.879 And I thought about this a little bit because I 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.560 knew you were going to ask me this. From great 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:44.560 too awesome. I think any day where I have spent 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:50.960 time with someone else helping them figure something out. I 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.880 cannot tell you why that gives me the buzz it does, 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.760 but research tells us that actually that gives all of 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.240 us a buzz. There's wonderful search on this and I so, 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:03.520 you know, I do a bit of coaching and mentoring 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:08.280 of other health care providers in British Columbia, and you know, 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.400 there was a recent day where I spent an hour 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:15.800 with someone on Zoom, helping them figure out an approach 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.960 to clinical problems that they needed to have, and I 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.119