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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. I am Ben my rider Die.

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Speaker 1: Host Noel is off on an adventure, but returning very

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Speaker 1: soon and sends his regards. Super producer Casey Pegram is

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Speaker 1: here with us as well. Casey, this is an episode

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Speaker 1: that's been on our mind collectively for some for some time,

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Speaker 1: and I am excited to see what we find. But

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Speaker 1: it's it's something that I have been thinking about over

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Speaker 1: the course of this week and this weekend. Uh. Unintended consequences, man,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? History is full of them.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't know where we're going with that.

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Speaker 1: It's an exciting theme. There's so many possibilities for I mean,

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Speaker 1: history is is literally the story of unintended consequences at

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Speaker 1: some level. I think so, um, it's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: great show today. I think I like the way you

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Speaker 1: you put that we're waxing poetic today. Man. That was nice. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We have decided to explore a cavalcade of unintended consequences, which,

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Speaker 1: as you said, Casey, is a really good way to

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Speaker 1: define history in general. But we are not venturing forth

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Speaker 1: into this land alone. Today. We are incredibly fortunate to

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Speaker 1: be joined with our special guests, the host of the

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Speaker 1: new podcast Flashback. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the

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Speaker 1: audio stage Sean braswell. Sean, thanks for coming on, glad

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Speaker 1: to be here, Ben, thanks for having me. Now, Sean,

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Speaker 1: you have quite a vested interest in a number of pursuits.

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Speaker 1: I believe you maybe the first Polly Math we've ever

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Speaker 1: had on Ridiculous History. Oh that's that's quite an honor.

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Speaker 1: It's true. I'm something of a renaissance man, someone who

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Speaker 1: went to college for way too long and did far

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Speaker 1: too many degrees, but it eventually pays off. I think

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Speaker 1: so agree with you. By the way, I was still

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Speaker 1: like I I think, like many of us, every so

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Speaker 1: often I think I should get a PhD, you know,

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Speaker 1: just just in something. So that's that's the dream. But

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Speaker 1: we wanted to ask you on this show today to

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Speaker 1: help us explore some of these unintended consequences throughout history,

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Speaker 1: and we've asked you to do so because this pertains

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Speaker 1: directly to your podcast, Flashback. Could you tell us a

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Speaker 1: little bit of about what Flashback is that's right. Um,

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Speaker 1: Flashback is a is a history podcast, and our first

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Speaker 1: season is all about unintended consequences, like you said, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I like to think of history, and one

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Speaker 1: of the things I love most about it, in addition

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Speaker 1: to the great stories and and and the ridiculous stories

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Speaker 1: like you guys cover, is just to think of it

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Speaker 1: as one big giant laboratory experiment where you can sort

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Speaker 1: of see cause and effect unfold over time, and you

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Speaker 1: can figure out how things are connected. You know. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: change happens on a dime, sometimes it happens over centuries.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, the beautiful thing about the about

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Speaker 1: history is that it teaches us about how so much

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Speaker 1: of the world around us is contingent. You know, that

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Speaker 1: things don't have to be the way they are now

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Speaker 1: and uh, and they almost weren't. Yeah. There's so many

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Speaker 1: pivotal points in history, right, Decision points have been called

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Speaker 1: or a crossroads. It's something we spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time thinking about on this show as well. You know,

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Speaker 1: what if something happens just a few minutes later on

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Speaker 1: a particular afternoon, right, what leads us to investigate the

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Speaker 1: largely invisible stories of some very common things. Throughout Season

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Speaker 1: one of Flashback, you've been exploring topics that might ostensibly

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Speaker 1: seem like something everyone is aware of, you know, like

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Speaker 1: air conditioning. We we get it, we know what air

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Speaker 1: conditioning is. But you explore the ripple effects caused by

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Speaker 1: some of these events, some actions of notable individuals like

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Speaker 1: Henry Ford, for instance, or the way in which a

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Speaker 1: controversial product might affect the world around us. I was

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Speaker 1: hoping that today we could we could explore a couple

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Speaker 1: of these things, because there's a lot of stuff in Flashback.

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Speaker 1: I I had no idea of I I had no

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Speaker 1: idea the entire story of cigarettes, Like when we think

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Speaker 1: of cigarettes today, this is a good starting point. When

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Speaker 1: we think of cigarettes today, you know, we think of

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Speaker 1: things like the massive health concerns right Uh, the tremendous

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Speaker 1: damage it can do to your body. We also think

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Speaker 1: of maybe the social aspect of cigarettes being cool in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties film and uh film and you know television, Uh,

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Speaker 1: ridiculous histories. You can't see it. But I got a

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Speaker 1: little too in character, and now I'm waving an invisible

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Speaker 1: cigarette that I have to keep for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the show. Uh. But this is this is where I'd

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Speaker 1: like to start today, Sean, cigarettes, What what are some

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Speaker 1: of the unintended consequences of cigarettes? Well, there are just

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Speaker 1: so many and uh, and cigarettes have such a rich

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Speaker 1: history and and one of the things I think, like

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that that we take for granted today is

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Speaker 1: we cigarettes are is basically synonymous with smoking and tobacco.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't always that case throughout American history. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have a long history with tobacco in this country,

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Speaker 1: going back to the Mayflower and the Pilgrims. But for

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Speaker 1: the most part, through the the early history of the

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Speaker 1: United States, we were talking about cigars and pipes and

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Speaker 1: chewing tobacco, not not manufactured cigarettes. And for for much

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Speaker 1: of our history, cigarettes were considered, you know, somewhat effeminate,

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Speaker 1: that you would be made fun of if you're a

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Speaker 1: man and you were smoking a little dainty cigarette, just

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Speaker 1: like you gesture a minute ago. So this is odd

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Speaker 1: because you know, for a lot of people, the idea

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Speaker 1: of the Marlborough man is pretty familiar, and that's something

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Speaker 1: that's supposed to be equated directly with say a more

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Speaker 1: masculine presentation. Right, How how did this switch occur? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's funny. It's a very masculine thing to do,

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Speaker 1: thanks in no small part to the Marlboro Man. But

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Speaker 1: in part that is all rolled up into the relationship

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Speaker 1: that smoking has with war in American history, going back

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Speaker 1: to the First World War in fact, right right, So

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Speaker 1: I imagine then it's a situation where tobacco was perhaps

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Speaker 1: a ration that's given to soldiers, similar to the way

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Speaker 1: you know, you would receive food rations. Is that correct? Yes,

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Speaker 1: but not, but not at first. It wasn't actually included

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Speaker 1: in the U. S. Army rations in World War One

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Speaker 1: until the very end of the war. Um the very

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Speaker 1: first group to hand out cigarettes, and they handed out

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Speaker 1: more than two billion of them to US soldiers, was

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Speaker 1: in fact that the y m c A way the

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Speaker 1: Young Men's Christian Association, that's right, one, one and the same,

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Speaker 1: These sort of Christian progressive temperance groups like y m

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Speaker 1: c A. They are the ones that helped get prohibition

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Speaker 1: past in America. They were very involved in the moral

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Speaker 1: health and reform of the country, and one of the

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Speaker 1: places that they were most concerned about war as the

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Speaker 1: environment that soldiers found themselves in. You know, we have

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Speaker 1: a certain view today that being uh, in the military

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Speaker 1: is a glorious, profound, and noble venture. But back you know,

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Speaker 1: in the days of the Civil War, mothers would fear

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Speaker 1: when their sons and it was mostly their sons who

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Speaker 1: went off to battle and would come back with all

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Speaker 1: manner of bad habits and vices, from pornography used to

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Speaker 1: to drug use, to alcohol abuse, all sorts of things

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Speaker 1: like that. So groups like the y m c A

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Speaker 1: grew up to kind of help protect against that kind

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Speaker 1: of concern with vice among the soldiering class. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, this feels like it has the ring of truth.

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Speaker 1: I'm imagining what those what those vices might be. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're very serious things like someone becoming addicted to an

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Speaker 1: opiate of some sort for the treatment of you know,

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Speaker 1: chronic injuries or chronic pain. But then there's also stuff

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Speaker 1: that seems kind of I don't know, at the risk

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Speaker 1: of selling dismissive, seems kind of silly, Like little Johnny

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Speaker 1: ran off the war and now he came back and

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Speaker 1: he's got a hot hand in dice games, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. The kid just can't stop gambling. And

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Speaker 1: it's still it seems, though counterintuitive that a organization dedicated

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Speaker 1: to perpetuating its idea of morality would be associated with like,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a Y M c A down the

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Speaker 1: street from from Casey and I, and I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: they're anti smoking. Now I haven't read all their literature.

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Speaker 1: That might be my assumption. I would I would assume

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Speaker 1: so as well. You just have to remember the context

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Speaker 1: of a century ago. And it was almost like smoking

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Speaker 1: was the lesser of many evils when it came to

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Speaker 1: World War One soldiers. For example, the British Army gave

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Speaker 1: their soldiers rum rations, state sanctioned rum rations UH, and

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Speaker 1: the French soldiers actually had state run brothels that they

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Speaker 1: could frequent during World War One. And UH. A lot

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Speaker 1: of the American public and the U. S. Army weren't

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Speaker 1: aboard but that sort of advice. But they felt like

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Speaker 1: cigarettes was one vice they could effectively sanction, and it

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Speaker 1: was because it had certain benefits or soldiers as well.

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Speaker 1: It was something that would calm and soothe their nerves.

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Speaker 1: It was something to do when you were bored and UH.

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Speaker 1: And one thing that often gets overlooked is just the

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Speaker 1: fact that smoking condole your sense of smell. And there

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Speaker 1: were some very bad smells on the on the World

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Speaker 1: War One battlefield. Yeah, that's that's a good point. I

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Speaker 1: I I had thought about maybe the recreational aspect of it, um,

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Speaker 1: But I think you're making a pretty profound insight about

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Speaker 1: the functionality of of smoking there. You know, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be surprised if there were soldiers who had taken up

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Speaker 1: the habit just so they wouldn't have to constantly smell

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Speaker 1: the terrible stenches of war. Absolutely, you would find people

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Speaker 1: who wouldn't normally take up habits like that, adopting them

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Speaker 1: in context of extreme stress like battle and uh. And

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Speaker 1: that is what basically hooks an entire generation of young

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Speaker 1: America and young male Americans on cigarettes is the fact

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Speaker 1: that they're put in a rather unusual circumstance. And those

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Speaker 1: who might not necessarily have addictive personalities or pursue that

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Speaker 1: sort of vice outside of such a circumstance would would

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Speaker 1: would do that in in in the in the millions.

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Speaker 1: And so when these soldiers return now veterans, right, they

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Speaker 1: return with their with their cigarette habit. And this is okay,

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Speaker 1: So this is like the close of World War One

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Speaker 1: and the interwar period. Correct, Yes, that's right. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: after after they return, what happens. How does American culture

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Speaker 1: sort of associate or you know, navigate the idea of

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Speaker 1: the cigarette. Well, I think it just becomes much more sanctioned,

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Speaker 1: much more accepted. And you have millions of new, now

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Speaker 1: very manly nicotine addicts coming back from the war. And

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Speaker 1: of course it's very pro fitable industry as as a

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Speaker 1: result in the and the tobacco industry is making crazy

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Speaker 1: profits in the nineteen twenties, and and it spreads to

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Speaker 1: other segments of the American public. And of course the

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Speaker 1: more profitable the industry, the more profitable it is to

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Speaker 1: tax that industry, which is how uh, state and the

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Speaker 1: federal government get first involved in cigarette taxas. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: so I have I have several questions about this because

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Speaker 1: when you said, you know, when you mentioned the potentially

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Speaker 1: massive profits from from tobacco industry in general, right all

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Speaker 1: the products, when you when you mentioned that, I was

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Speaker 1: immediately thinking, for a second you were going to say,

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Speaker 1: and of course, the more profit there is to be made,

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Speaker 1: the more likely you'll see a criminal element involved. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I think that now I'm not saying that taxing

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Speaker 1: is a criminal element I'm just saying that the government

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Speaker 1: was not the only entity trying to make a little

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Speaker 1: something off the topless cigarettes. But weren't cigarette taxes controversial

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Speaker 1: at some point? I mean, people in general are not

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Speaker 1: big fans of taxes. No, they they they're not big

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Speaker 1: fans of the cigarette tax. But but initially, for the

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Speaker 1: first twenty years or so, they're you know, their pennies

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Speaker 1: on on a pack, they're they're relatively small, they're they're

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Speaker 1: they're minor additions to the cost of a pack of cigarettes.

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Speaker 1: And but it was a great revenue raiser for the government.

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Speaker 1: And you have to remember and during the nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 1: during Prohibition, the government was no longer taxing legal alcohol,

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Speaker 1: which just blew an enormous hole in the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Treasury not having alcohol taxes, and so the government was

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Speaker 1: looking for ways to recoup that revenue, and tobacco taxes

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Speaker 1: were one big way of doing that. And I think

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Speaker 1: about fift of the federal government's tax collections in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties were tobacco taxes fifteen per cent. That's that's

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Speaker 1: an insanely high number. Uh in higherly from cigarettes. I

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Speaker 1: guess it's it's interesting because a lot of us in

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Speaker 1: the modern day, you know, we like there's still a

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Speaker 1: visible demographic of the population that smokes or maybe engages

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Speaker 1: in some kind of relationship with nicotine, like vaping or something.

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Speaker 1: But it's been on a steady decline for a number

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Speaker 1: of years here in the States. From what I understand,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just so it's startling to realize that not

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Speaker 1: that long ago, you know, it would seem more abnormal

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Speaker 1: for someone in a certain demographic to not smoke, right like,

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Speaker 1: even even doctors are recommending the smooth field of the

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Speaker 1: camel's cigarette or something like that, right absolutely. And uh

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Speaker 1: And just to take a microcosm event, you know, the

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Speaker 1: average military base today and you go down to Fort Bragg,

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Speaker 1: which is about an hour from where I live in

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, and you don't see people smoking anymore. You

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Speaker 1: hardly ever see a cigarette soldier with a cigarette in

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Speaker 1: his or her mouth. Um. But you know, back in

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Speaker 1: the is a different story. And especially in World War Two,

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Speaker 1: they were everywhere. They were the preferred coping mechanism for

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Speaker 1: the for the enlisted man. And then of course, who

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Speaker 1: are you to tell that veteran that they are somehow

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Speaker 1: effeminate because they have a cigarette instead of a you know,

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Speaker 1: a cigar or I don't know, I'm spitball in here

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Speaker 1: a hookah. Who knows? That's right? So when when you

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Speaker 1: look at this, do you think that the y m

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Speaker 1: c A knew just how popular this uh distribution plan

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Speaker 1: of theirs would be? Like there, it sounds like we

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Speaker 1: can tie them almost directly to the popularity of cigarettes

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Speaker 1: in America. Yes, I I don't think that the y

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Speaker 1: m c A had really any clue as to the

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Speaker 1: long term consequences of what was essentially an act of

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Speaker 1: generosity during World War One, trying to provide a mechanism

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Speaker 1: for soldiers to better cope with life on the battlefield. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I mean that that's one of the things we

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Speaker 1: we we talked about a lot in the podcast, is

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Speaker 1: just how these unintended consequences can play out over time

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Speaker 1: and often in directions you could not have fathomed at

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Speaker 1: the time, and in ways that create much bigger and

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Speaker 1: larger vices than the one that the y m c

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Speaker 1: A was trying to deal with during World War One.

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Speaker 1: And this, you know, this is sobering stuff. Uh, just

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Speaker 1: just so everyone knows the way we're kind of laying

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Speaker 1: out today's journey is to start with what I would

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Speaker 1: say is one of the most dangerous topics. Clearly, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can also we can also point out that the

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Speaker 1: y m c A was not on some insidious conspiracy,

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Speaker 1: you know, to to give people cancer or anything. It was,

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Speaker 1: as you said, an act of generosity by it had

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Speaker 1: significant and serious consequences on the American public, and those

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Speaker 1: consequences still reverberate with us today. But maybe we switch

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Speaker 1: topics here and and take a different path. Sean, why

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Speaker 1: don't we cool down the tone of the podcast a

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Speaker 1: little bit and talk about air conditioning. Just just to

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Speaker 1: set this up here, air conditioning is amazing. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people here in the US have lived their entire

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Speaker 1: lives with easy access to air conditioning. It's ubiquitous in

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Speaker 1: many parts of the world. But if you have ever

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Speaker 1: spent an extended amount of time in an area where

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Speaker 1: air conditioning is abnormal, you very quickly notice its absence. Casey,

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Speaker 1: I want to throw to you, actually, how common is

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Speaker 1: air conditioning in France? Yeah, and in Paris It's it's

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Speaker 1: very hit and myths, and it's sometimes used as marketing

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Speaker 1: for like a film. You know, movie theory there will

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Speaker 1: say the silids climatise, and it means it's climatized, it's

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Speaker 1: air conditioned, and so you you kind of have the

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Speaker 1: idea that maybe some people are buying tickets to go

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Speaker 1: in just a cool off for a couple of hours

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Speaker 1: and the movie doesn't matter so much. So um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a whole way of life, right,

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Speaker 1: like you always have the windows open, You're always kind

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Speaker 1: of conscious of trying to keep some airflow going, stay fresh,

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Speaker 1: um where you know, light materials that breathe and so on.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a whole thing, casey on the case. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, Sean, I had in a previous life, I

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Speaker 1: had lived in Central America for some time in Guatemala,

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Speaker 1: and you know, air conditioning was much less common, at

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Speaker 1: least the place in the place where I was living.

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Speaker 1: And the last thing I did before I returned to

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Speaker 1: the United States was to splurge a little and spend

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Speaker 1: the night in a in a hotel that had this

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Speaker 1: was very big to me, had both carpet and air canditioning.

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Speaker 1: Uh And and now returning with that, like I am

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Speaker 1: constantly amazed by air conditioning. I think it does affect

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Speaker 1: us in ways that we we don't really think about,

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Speaker 1: but you on flashback had mentioned it also played a

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Speaker 1: role in politics. Yes, that's that's right. You know. Um,

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Speaker 1: when comfort spreads over an entire country or over an

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Speaker 1: entire globe, eventually it changes the way people behave, often

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Speaker 1: in unexpected ways. And even though we come to think

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Speaker 1: of air conditioning as a creature comfort as an invention

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Speaker 1: that makes life easier, uh that that idea of comfort,

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Speaker 1: of having an easier life influences how people behave, for

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Speaker 1: for example, moving to different parts of the country that

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Speaker 1: they might normally not want to live in, for example

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Speaker 1: Houston or Phoenix, or or any of a number of

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Speaker 1: places in the U. S. Sun Belt that now have

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Speaker 1: cities with that are home to millions of p bowl

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Speaker 1: but at one time would be it would be absolutely

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Speaker 1: unthinkable to want to spend an entire year in a

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Speaker 1: place like that. Yeah, like the swamp lands of Florida,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially thinking very humid places where it just

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Speaker 1: SAPs your energy out. So we know, without getting too

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Speaker 1: into the weeds on the story of air conditionings invention,

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Speaker 1: we know the idea has been around for a long time, right,

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Speaker 1: how can we make the air in the environment around

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Speaker 1: us cooler? But what would you say, was like the

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Speaker 1: first wave of people empowered to move via air conditioning

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Speaker 1: availability in the US. Well, the big moment on that

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Speaker 1: front is in the early nineteen fifties with the advent

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Speaker 1: of the home air conditioning unit. Because even though air

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Speaker 1: conditioning had been available in large commercial places in America

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Speaker 1: for for most of the early twentieth century and department stores,

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Speaker 1: or like Casey said, in France, in movie theaters, there

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Speaker 1: was not something that was present at home. It was

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Speaker 1: it was an escape from the heat. Uh So, for example,

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Speaker 1: movie theaters in the nineteen twenties and thirties, they would

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Speaker 1: advertise with big icicles and polar bears, and some would

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Speaker 1: just prop open the lobby doors, so if you're walking

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Speaker 1: down the sidewalk, you could feel this breath of cool

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Speaker 1: air coming out, and it would entice you to buy

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Speaker 1: a ticket and come inside. And so that was the

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Speaker 1: reality of air conditioning for decades was it was a

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Speaker 1: it was a comfort in a in a public place.

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Speaker 1: But once the air conditioning unit comes into the home,

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Speaker 1: that's when people start to realize that they can live

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Speaker 1: in a variety of places across the country, and you

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Speaker 1: can see that start to shape population migration in the

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Speaker 1: United States starting in the fifties and sixties, and and

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Speaker 1: ultimately that effects political representation and where people are and

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Speaker 1: what type of people are in different places, right, right,

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Speaker 1: because the way that our you know, our voting and

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Speaker 1: electoral system works, means that the more people who live

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Speaker 1: in a given state, right, the more representation they have

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Speaker 1: in Congress via the House of Representatives, Right. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I guess that goes into municipal government as well. You

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Speaker 1: know now that you mentioned it, Sean, I'm just thinking

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Speaker 1: like Houston, Texas, for instance, without air conditioning, is a

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Speaker 1: automatically going to be a much much smaller town by

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Speaker 1: almost any measure. Is air conditioning responsible for these metropolis ees? Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: If you take Gulf cities like Houston, New Orleans, Tampa,

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Speaker 1: they were about less than half a million people in

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Speaker 1: those cities before nineteen fifty, which seems unfathomable today when

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Speaker 1: they're something more like twenty million people that live in

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Speaker 1: those Gulf cities. And that increase that mass migration to

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Speaker 1: the Sun Belt was as a result of air conditioning. Primarily,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to wonder if any of the

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Speaker 1: politicians ever thanked air conditioning in a stump speech, you know,

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Speaker 1: or a an acceptance speech, like I'd like to thank

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Speaker 1: God the good voters of the Florida Panhandle and of

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Speaker 1: course air conditioning units the real soldiers of summer exactly

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Speaker 1: and uh, and some notable mostly Republican politicians probably should having,

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Speaker 1: including President Ronald Reagan, whose election in nineteen eighty was

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Speaker 1: sort of the tail end of a of a mass

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Speaker 1: migration south in the United States. I think what a

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't realize today, where we tend to

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Speaker 1: think of the Southern States is predominantly Republican states, is

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Speaker 1: that in you know, the first one hundred years, almost

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Speaker 1: after the Civil War, the Democratic Party dominated the South.

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Speaker 1: And so for example, they're about one House of representative

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Speaker 1: seats in the southern US, and the Southern States only

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Speaker 1: about seven of them, about a handful of them were

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Speaker 1: republic looking. For most of the twentieth century, those were

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Speaker 1: the sort of mountain ones in Tennessee and North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: And starting in nineteen fifty four in St. Petersburg, Florida,

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Speaker 1: you start to see that flip. St. Petersburg went from

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Speaker 1: being a democratic constituency to a Republican one. And the

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Speaker 1: main reason for that was that you had a lot

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Speaker 1: of wealthy northern Republicans who were migrating south, people who

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Speaker 1: might have wintered in Florida previously decided to just go

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Speaker 1: ahead and uproot and live there all year long. And

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering too, how this applies to other areas of

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Speaker 1: the world. I think we can. I think we can

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Speaker 1: even expand and go a bit closer to a macro level,

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Speaker 1: because you know, one of the first things people think

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Speaker 1: about when they think about crazy heat in the world

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Speaker 1: is going to be the Middle East, right, places like

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Speaker 1: Dubai or Saudi Arabia. And I'm I'm starting to think

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Speaker 1: that this link you have uncovered applies to in some

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Speaker 1: way to those cities, well, those centers of human capital

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Speaker 1: and learning. Um, it's it's fascinating to me, especially the

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Speaker 1: idea that air conditioning might be responsible for the rise

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Speaker 1: of republicanism. Uh. For for any one interested in learning

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Speaker 1: more about what what Sean and Casey and I are

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Speaker 1: exploring here, uh, just google the term dixiecrat, right. Uh

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Speaker 1: that I believe that is that a pejorative term. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was just sort of like a group name.

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Speaker 1: Not originally it has subsequently come to be somewhat pejorative, right,

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Speaker 1: the idea of being that UH, the Democratic Party of

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Speaker 1: the South at this time, in reconstruction and post Civil

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Speaker 1: War did not have much in common with the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party as we understand it today. The Democrats are Dixiecrats

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Speaker 1: in the in the post Civil war realities of the South,

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Speaker 1: were very much an oppositional party. They wanted to maintain

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Speaker 1: what they saw as a political and cultural stronghold against

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Speaker 1: the victorious northern UH and largely Republican parties. So you said,

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Speaker 1: there's this massive migration south, and it's enabled by the

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Speaker 1: whole air conditioner, which is, you know, the newest thing

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Speaker 1: that you need to keep up with the joneses or

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Speaker 1: people moving from a specific part of the country like

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Speaker 1: the northeast or the cooler northwest. Where where did all

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Speaker 1: these people come from? Primarily from New England and New

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Speaker 1: York and the rest belt. And to put this in context,

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Speaker 1: about eighty six seats in Congress went from the North

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Speaker 1: to the South during this time period. And as the

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Speaker 1: South grew more populous, it's clout in Washington improved as well,

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Speaker 1: and those were predominantly Republican seats, sean permitting to just

430
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: brainstorm or conspire a bit here. But I'm also wondering

431
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: whether manufacturers of air conditioning equipment maybe not predicted this trend,

432
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: but I'm wondering whether they were able to see it,

433
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: because surely they noticed where most of their sales were

434
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: occurring or where things were um rising right in certain demographics.

435
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: Do we know if anyone in the air conditioning industry

436
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: clocked this or saw it or were they just thinking, man,

437
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna be rich and at a low ambient temperature.

438
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure they were keeping track of it, and it

439
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: was a bonanza for them. And you can see the

440
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: studies and the and the census figures and other things

441
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: during the time period for not only the growth of

442
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: the population in the South, but the percentage of American

443
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: homes that had air conditioning at this time. You know,

444
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: I think it goes from something like of households in

445
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: the sixties to fifty percent and seventy and and and

446
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: up and up from there too. I think it's about

447
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: or so today. And we can also see the effects

448
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: of air conditioning. I would pause it in the growth

449
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: of infrastructure, right, you have to have a much more

450
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: reliable energy system, especially you know in like a sweltering

451
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: New Orleans summer. New Orleans is a terrible example. There

452
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: are already a lot of people living there. But but

453
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: the uh maybe let's say, um, San Antonio another very

454
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: hot place. I'm wondering. I'm wondering what other effects happen here,

455
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 1: because I think it's an unfortunately common occurrence. A lot

456
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: of people have experience that uh stomach churning emotion when

457
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: you have the A c on too high, maybe your

458
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: campinging somewhere, or your cars getting overheated. Uh. There are

459
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: parts of the world now where we as a species

460
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: cannot envision living without air conditioning. But is it driving

461
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: energy infrastructure in these cities as well as driving voting

462
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: pop relations? Absolutely? I mean, I think you find that

463
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: this has gone from being a luxury to a necessity

464
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: in a lot of places like like San Antonio, or

465
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: like Phoenix, where you have to have an enormous infrastructure

466
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: to support millions of people, um that live in a

467
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: place that basically in the case of Phoenix, you know,

468
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: just over a century ago probably had twenty thousand UM

469
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: and and not two million or more, and you have

470
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: to have heat relief efforts on hand. You have to

471
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: have uh, you know, legions of h VACT repairman. It's

472
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: just a much different landscape, one that is geared towards

473
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: treating this particular home appliance. And air conditioning has changed

474
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: the US, it's changed the world. There were a couple

475
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: of things I wanted to chat with you about, because

476
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: we may be potentially in some situation, we may be

477
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: shooting ourselves in the climate controlled foot with air conditioning.

478
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm thinking specifically with your excellent example of Phoenix, Arizona.

479
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: It's a great example of how the use of air

480
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: conditioning can actually make air conditioning more necessary in the future,

481
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: right because we're making cooler inside buildings and structures and

482
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: stores and so on, but we're doing that by expelling

483
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: hot air into into the environment. I found a study

484
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: that said the hot air pumped out of air conditioning

485
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: units in Phoenix, Arizona raise the city's average nighttime temperature

486
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: by something on the order of two degrees celsius. Again

487
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: that that's two degrees celsius for basically everybody on the

488
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: planet except for the United States. For US, US residents.

489
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: That's thirty five point six degrees fahrenheit. Nothing to sneeze at.

490
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: That's that's a pretty significant jump. Yeah, And like you said,

491
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: it's a it's a vicious cycle now where uh, you know,

492
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: the massive use of air conditioning does affect the climate

493
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: and does affect affect the temperature, and which in turn,

494
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: you know, just enhances the need for air conditioning. And

495
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: if you think it's bad as a result of cities

496
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: like Phoenix, you know, wait till air conditioning becomes far

497
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: more prevalent in places like Delhi or Jakarta or other

498
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: cities in the world. Yeah, that's a that's a prescient

499
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: and disturbing point, shot, especially when we consider the hundreds

500
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: of millions of people who live in these who live

501
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: in these areas. You know, it makes me wonder. I

502
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: am not the expert here, ma'am, but it makes me

503
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: wonder if maybe we should go back to the days

504
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: of having the ice trucks run. Right when when that

505
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: that was an industry in New England, Right, they would

506
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 1: literally drive these trucks all the way up to Canada.

507
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: I believe they would chop off chunks of ice, they

508
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: would cover it in hay, and they would be like, hurry, hurry, hurry,

509
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: We've got to put our foot on the gas and

510
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: it back down to New York. I don't know that

511
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: was a real thing though, right, That was a fairly

512
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: prevalent industry beforehand. Absolutely, And and just so many other

513
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: ways of keeping cool that we've kind of forgotten about today.

514
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: People used to spend lots of time outdoors in the shade,

515
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: under trees, you know. They had a lot of public

516
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: fountains where you could go cool off. There's just there's

517
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: a whole way of coping with the heat that we've

518
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: we've seemed to largely forget about. Yeah, you know, no,

519
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm one of those people who's naturally

520
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: always kind of cold, So I have I have space

521
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: heaters distributed strategically around my house. Um, and I think

522
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: that's something that we as we as humans, uh, find

523
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: ourselves quarreling with pretty often. Like we're I think we've

524
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: become so adjusted to having this minute control over our

525
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: inner temperature that some people just can't find a good

526
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: temperature anymore. I mean, Casey, I said, I you've got

527
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: a knowing glint in your eye. Are you one of

528
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: those people who's always like too cold, too hot, or

529
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: do you know someone who is well. I was just

530
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: thinking of the dynamics here at the apartment. The thermostatic,

531
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: of course, is in the central living area, and there's

532
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a constant push pull on,

533
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 1: you know, bumping it up a degree, bumping it back

534
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: down a degree, and so on. Um. And it's funny

535
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: that the variance is literally just like a degree that

536
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: we kind of like go up or down on. So,

537
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just it was just funny to me.

538
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: What about what about you, Sean? Are you in a

539
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: oh this is so bad? Are you in a temperature

540
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: cold war? No? Not at home right now, But I

541
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: I am with respect to uh podcasting and having I

542
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: turned the A C off whenever I'm recording, And so

543
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: how I noticed myself getting progressively uncomfortable the longer I

544
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: I record the podcast. I don't know if you have

545
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: that experience, Oh oh yes, yeah. So we we've been

546
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: recording in our respective bunkers, you know, over the course

547
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: of the ongoing pandemic. But for most of our show's history,

548
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: Casey Nolan I recorded in something that looked very much

549
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: like an insulated shipping container like you would see on

550
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: a cargo ship, and it was exactly like sitting inside one.

551
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: It wasn't barbaric. There was a window, uh so that

552
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: Casey could see us and we could see him. You

553
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: still really did luck out. You got the catbird seed

554
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: on that one. Casey. Oh yeah, I was. I was

555
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: outside the sweat box, so it got hot out there,

556
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: but it was like probably ten fifteen degrees hotter it

557
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: seemed inside. When you guys finished after like an hour,

558
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: it was like a locker room in there was pretty bad.

559
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: It was very good for managing sound Sean, but it

560
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: was very bad for circulating air um. Probably the most

561
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: uh impactful anecdote I can share about that is, uh,

562
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, was the first time recording in that in

563
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: that shipping container for this show and for other shows.

564
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: This is the first time in my life I walked

565
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: out of a room and thought, wow, you know, I

566
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: can feel the temperature drop. And then I realized, I'm like, whoa,

567
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: I smell like the people I was in there with

568
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: like and that's the and that's I believe, in the

569
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: parlance of our time, that's called the funk. I got

570
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: the funk uh. Um, but of course, you know, we

571
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: do these things for you all listening in the audience today. Now,

572
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: imagine if you had to do that and I will

573
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: invest in suit or multiple petticoats. Oh, you know, it's

574
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: the main thing. It's the main reason that I'm not

575
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: more into petticoats. Really, if I'm being honest, it's day.

576
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: I definitely have no objection to the aesthetic. Oh man, Casey,

577
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: I think we did it again. We did we? Uh,

578
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: this has a way of happening. I've noticed the impromptu

579
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: two partner. Yes, yes, we have another impromptu two parter,

580
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: assuming Sean Braswell will continue going on this strange journey

581
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: with us. There's just so much more we want to

582
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: get to. Uh, Sean, what what do you say? Are

583
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: you up for a part two? I would love to

584
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: come back and talk to you more about Unintended Consequences.

585
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: Been fantastic, good because I don't know what we would

586
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: have done if you said no. So I'm glad that

587
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: worked out. Uh. In the meantime, Well, while we're getting

588
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: to part two of our episode, we highly recommend you

589
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 1: check out Shawn's new podcast with I Heart Flashback, which

590
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: contains stories very much like this, uh, far deeper dives

591
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: than we're getting to today, about everything from air conditioning,

592
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: two cigarettes to Henry Ford in a very weird way,

593
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: and also spoiler alert kudzu, Sean. Where can people go

594
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: to find flashback? Sure, you can find Flashback History's Unintended

595
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 1: Consequences on Apple podcasts or the I Heart Radio podcast

596
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: app or or wherever you get your podcasts. And we'd

597
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: also like to hear your stories of unintended consequences, things

598
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: that you think your fellow listeners would enjoy. Ridiculous history

599
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: is well, you know, all over the internet. We've basically

600
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: got everything now but a Pinterest because of you know,

601
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: some ongoing litigation, but don't worry about that. Just find

602
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, find us on Twitter, find us on Instagram.

603
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: You can talk to Casey and Noel and I directly. Uh.

604
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: We're also going to volunteer Sean here. Sean. If people

605
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 1: want to reach out to you about flashback and maybe

606
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: share some some of their stories, where should they find you?

607
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: Please email me at flashback at AUSSI dot com. That's

608
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: flashback at oz y dot com. We've been inviting our

609
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: own listeners to share with us their stories of unintended consequences,

610
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: as well as other stories from history that we might

611
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: not have covered or missed. Fantastic. I cannot wait to

612
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: read the stuff people are gonna send Casey, the stuff

613
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: they're gonna post. I mean it will hopefully be a

614
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: bit of a bomb to our wounded egos now that

615
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: we realize we chose the wrong career paths and are

616
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: not in fact cigarette tycoons. So as always, thanks to

617
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: Christopher Hasiotis, thanks to Jonathan Strickland a k a. The

618
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: Quister can get me, have forgotten to thank him on

619
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: this or a future outro us and uh we'll we'll

620
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: see him soon. Of course, we're also always glad to

621
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: shout out Eve's Jeff Cote, our pure podcaster for this

622
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: day in history. Let's see who else Casey we got?

623
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: Alex Williams, you compose this banger of a track where

624
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: we're listening to at the beginning and ending of pretty

625
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 1: much every episode. Who else we got? We got? No Brown? Um?

626
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: I think that's about it. Oh yeah, it'd be weird

627
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: if you thank yourself, right. Yeah? I can't. I can't.

628
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,439
Speaker 1: I can't go that far. We're not at that Kanye level. Yet,

629
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: but we'll get it. We'll get there, Yes, of course.

630
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: Super producer Casey Pegram, thank you so much for going

631
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: on yet another ridiculous historical journey with us. We can't

632
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: wait to hear your stories, and we can't wait to

633
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: bring you part two of our series on Unintended Consequences.

634
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I

635
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

636
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,