Speaker 1: School of Humans.
Speaker 2: On the morning of Friday, October seventeenth, nineteen eighty, a
Speaker 2: man was on his way to work. He was driving
Speaker 2: his truck down Highway sixteen, the East West highway that
Speaker 2: runs between Salom Springs, Arkansas, near the Oklahoma border, through
Speaker 2: Ozark National Forest and Enns in Sercey.
Speaker 1: He was driving through the woods near.
Speaker 2: An area called Lake Weddington when he saw something out
Speaker 2: of the corner of his eye down a small dirt road.
Speaker 2: It looked like a person lying in the road, so
Speaker 2: the driver doubled back and looked again and saw to
Speaker 2: his horror that it was a body, the body of
Speaker 2: a young woman lying rolled over on her right side.
Speaker 2: Her head and shoulders were face down. Her right hand
Speaker 2: was extended out, her left hand was near her face.
Speaker 2: The woman was very tall. She had a flannel shirt
Speaker 2: on and a blue Michelin jacket that had been her face.
Speaker 2: Her legs were slightly open. She was naked from the
Speaker 2: waist down except for a pair of torn and filthy
Speaker 2: white sox. The victim started out being a Jane Doe,
Speaker 2: but soon police had idd her as twenty one year
Speaker 2: old Gail Vaut. Gail lived nearby and worked on a
Speaker 2: road crew as a great operator.
Speaker 1: She worked building Highway seventy one.
Speaker 2: Friends said that everyone loved Gail. She was six foot two,
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty five pounds, lean fit, and a
Speaker 2: very attractive and outgoing young woman. Even though she was
Speaker 2: beautiful on the outside. She was one of those people
Speaker 2: who could act like one of the guys when she
Speaker 2: was on the job, and she could also deal with
Speaker 2: what was considered back then and even today as being
Speaker 2: a man's job. Forensic testing showed that Gail had been
Speaker 2: run over by a car. There was a condom and
Speaker 2: condom wrapper nearby, so investigators believed that she had been raped.
Speaker 2: Sometimes people, well meaning people say, well, at least she
Speaker 2: felt no pain. But I'm an investigator and I have
Speaker 2: to face what are sometimes brutal realities. I promise to
Speaker 2: always tell people the truth. Investigators saw that her left
Speaker 2: foot had moved back and forth in the mud, creating
Speaker 2: a ridge. So, according to the evidence, whatever happened to
Speaker 2: Gail Vaught in those woods, she suffered. But there are
Speaker 2: a lot of questions about this case, like was she
Speaker 2: actually raped, was she sexually assaulted? Or could that condom
Speaker 2: have been staged? Could her death have connections to drug dealing,
Speaker 2: or domestic violence or something else. What really happened to
Speaker 2: Gail Vauught. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years
Speaker 2: of making my true crime podcast, Helling Gone, I have
Speaker 2: received hundreds of messages from people asking for help with
Speaker 2: an unsolved murder that's affected them and their community. Despite
Speaker 2: the numerous people who need help out there on each
Speaker 2: season of Helen Gone, I've only been able to focus
Speaker 2: on one case at a time.
Speaker 1: But now that's going to change.
Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my
Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us
Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight
Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. That's six seven
Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four or five. This
Speaker 2: is Helen Gone Murder Line. I first learned about this
Speaker 2: case when I got a call from a private investigator
Speaker 2: in Arkansas named Marty. Even though Marty has a day job,
Speaker 2: he does investigations, including a lot of pro bono work
Speaker 2: on the side. A few years ago, he was contacted
Speaker 2: by Gail's sister, Teresa. He started working on Gail's case.
Speaker 2: It's been over forty years since Gaile's death. It's been
Speaker 2: so long that the police, who do not always want
Speaker 2: to share evidence, have turned over the case file making
Speaker 2: it public. This means they have gotten to what they
Speaker 2: believe is the end of their investigation. Marty told me,
Speaker 2: and I've discovered working on this case, that crucial physical
Speaker 2: evidence has been lost. And yet Marty did not want
Speaker 2: to give up on Gail's case. He believed and I
Speaker 2: believe too, there may be something, even decades later that
Speaker 2: the police have missed. One of the people Marty interviewed
Speaker 2: was the driver who found Gail's body. Now, this guy
Speaker 2: says that he was driving by when he happened to
Speaker 2: glance out his truck. He looked down an old road
Speaker 2: on the side of the highway. He said, and this
Speaker 2: is a quote from Marty's interview, that he looked in
Speaker 2: his rear view mirror and saw quote, there was a
Speaker 2: truck behind me. It was a small red truck. There
Speaker 2: were two people in the truck, and they seemed to
Speaker 2: be looking down the road also end quote. So it
Speaker 2: seemed like there was something weird down that road, and
Speaker 2: people were noticing. The driver doubled back and pulled off,
Speaker 2: and that's when he saw Gaial Vault. He said that
Speaker 2: her jacket was over her head. He lifted the jacket
Speaker 2: up to see if the person was still alive, and
Speaker 2: he said he could tell by the color of her
Speaker 2: face that she was already dead. So he went back
Speaker 2: to his truck where he had a radio. Side note
Speaker 2: back then, I asked Marty, well, how did he call?
Speaker 2: Was this a car phone? I mean this this was
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty and he told me that after the dukes
Speaker 2: of Hazard, a lot of people had cbe radios in
Speaker 2: their car. That was a big thing in Arkansas at
Speaker 2: the time and around the country. Anyway, he picked up
Speaker 2: his radio, called his office and asked them to call
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department. After Gail's body was found and she
Speaker 2: was idd, her remains were sent to the state crime
Speaker 2: Lab for an autopsy. We did a freedom of information
Speaker 2: request and Marty also shared some of the case fall
Speaker 2: information he acquired over the years. From that, we were
Speaker 2: able to view Gailee's autopsy report and also see some
Speaker 2: of the notes that the investigators had made at the scene.
Speaker 2: So we're trying to figure out what actually killed gailvaut.
Speaker 2: The initial report said there was no sign of stabbing
Speaker 2: or other traumas and there were no visible gunshot wounds.
Speaker 2: But once investigators got the body to the next location,
Speaker 2: they realized something that they had missed at the original scene.
Speaker 2: There was a gunshot wound in Gail's head, hidden behind
Speaker 2: her shoulder length brown hair. Gail had been shot with
Speaker 2: a twenty two caliber weapon. It was a single gunshot
Speaker 2: wound to the back of the head, but the bullet
Speaker 2: had fragmented and not penetrated her brain. This sounds strange,
Speaker 2: but it actually happens more often than you would think.
Speaker 2: These are sometimes the kind of stories you hear where
Speaker 2: someone was shot in the head and they ended up surviving.
Speaker 2: Because when this happens, when someone is shot in the
Speaker 2: head and the bullet does not penetrate the grain, sometimes
Speaker 2: people are able to survive. In Gail's case, her killer
Speaker 2: obviously wanted to make sure that did not happen, because
Speaker 2: the report stated Gail was shot and run over by
Speaker 2: a car. The immediate cause of death was listed as
Speaker 2: gunshot wound of the right rear of the head, accompanied
Speaker 2: with blunt trauma of the pelvis and in parentheses, run
Speaker 2: over by a car. The report did not state which
Speaker 2: one had come first. Was she shot in the head
Speaker 2: first or run over by the car. The autops then
Speaker 2: listed the manner of death as homicide.
Speaker 1: As we said before, Gail was athletic.
Speaker 2: This was a woman who had played volleyball in high
Speaker 2: school competitively. She worked on a road crew every day.
Speaker 2: She knew how to handle herself, and there appeared to
Speaker 2: be no defensive wounds anywhere on her body. Investigators were
Speaker 2: trying to piece together what happened. They went to the
Speaker 2: home that Gail shared with her boyfriend Ray. They found
Speaker 2: food sitting out on the stove, and to police, it
Speaker 2: appeared as though Gail had been in the process of
Speaker 2: cooking a meal. Police formed an early theory that Gail
Speaker 2: could have been kidnapped, possibly at gunpoint. As I mentioned before,
Speaker 2: police did find some other evidence at the crime scene,
Speaker 2: including a used condom and a condom box. The brand
Speaker 2: was called Tickled Fancy. This is a brand I've never
Speaker 2: heard of, but I did a lot of research and
Speaker 2: apparently this was a brand that was popular in the
Speaker 2: Midwest in Arkansas, Missouri during this time. The front of
Speaker 2: the condom box is unlike any other one I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: It has an illustration of a man and woman looking
Speaker 2: like they're about to kiss on the front. I am
Speaker 2: doing some investigating. I'm trying to figure out where those
Speaker 2: condoms were sold. So if anyone out there was alive
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty and sexually active and happens to remember
Speaker 2: buying this brand of condoms, were they available in vending machines?
Speaker 2: That kind of thing I would love to hear from you.
Speaker 2: Investigators also found a roll of gray duct tape near
Speaker 2: the body, which could have been another piece of evidence
Speaker 2: potentially tied to their kidnapping theory. There was also an
Speaker 2: empty gun box at the crime scene near Gale's body
Speaker 2: that had held a twenty two caliber weapon. According to
Speaker 2: the investigator's notes, this gun box was meant for a
Speaker 2: rom RG ten, which is a twenty two caliber revolver,
Speaker 2: but police did not find the murder weapon. There were
Speaker 2: also some fresh tire tracks in the mud near Gail's body.
Speaker 2: Investigators took picture of the tire tracks, and while they
Speaker 2: were working to process the crime scene, they started looking
Speaker 2: into Gail's personal life, and it didn't take long for
Speaker 2: them to come up with a person of interest, Gail's boyfriend,
Speaker 2: Ray Foreman. Gail and Ray lived together in a basement
Speaker 2: apartment that was owned by a friend of theirs named
Speaker 2: Barry Frizell.
Speaker 1: Ray had a history.
Speaker 2: A history of violence, and a history with the police.
Speaker 2: Ray had split up with his wife Lynn a few
Speaker 2: months before he met Gail. There were accusations of domestic
Speaker 2: violence in that relationship, and as we said, Ray was
Speaker 2: well known to police as a drug dealer.
Speaker 1: According to Gail's friends, she didn't.
Speaker 2: Really talk about where she lived, and she didn't seem
Speaker 2: to want to give people directions to her house. Apparently
Speaker 2: this was because of the fact that Ray dealt drugs.
Speaker 2: Gail's body was on Friday, October seventeenth, and Gail had
Speaker 2: apparently been making weekend plans on that Friday. At first,
Speaker 2: police believed Gail may have been hanging out with a
Speaker 2: friend of hers named Sheila. Gail and Sheila did drugs
Speaker 2: together and partied sometimes. Sheila later told police that occasionally
Speaker 2: they would smoke some pot or drop acid together. Gail
Speaker 2: had told Sheila to come up to see her that weekend,
Speaker 2: and Gail had said not to worry about anything. She
Speaker 2: specifically told Sheila that she would pay for everything, meaning
Speaker 2: the drugs they were going to buy. While police were
Speaker 2: working to locate Sheila, and also trying to find anyone
Speaker 2: else who Gail may have been planning to meet with,
Speaker 2: and trying to figure out what was going on at
Speaker 2: home between her and Ray. They were trying to process
Speaker 2: the physical evidence. As we said before, police believed that
Speaker 2: Gail had been raped, so they sent this used condom
Speaker 2: off for some forensic testing. Now, remember this was back
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty This was before there was such a
Speaker 2: thing as DNA testing at all. All police could do
Speaker 2: at the time with some much simpler testing, which apparently
Speaker 2: they did. According to Gale's autopsy report, there were traces
Speaker 2: of semen found inside her vagina and there was sperm
Speaker 2: found inside that condom. The autopsy report clarified that cells
Speaker 2: that came from Gale's vagina tested negative for sperm cells,
Speaker 2: but positive for the possible presence of semen. I looked
Speaker 2: into this discrepancy to see if we could explain it,
Speaker 2: and it turns out that there is a reasonable explanation
Speaker 2: for this because one of the tests they had at
Speaker 2: the time was a simple test called an acid phosphate test. Now,
Speaker 2: this test is a way to screen for possible semen,
Speaker 2: but it's not exact. Apparently the investigators did that test
Speaker 2: first and it came up positive. Then they took some
Speaker 2: swabs from Gale's vagina and her anus and also her
Speaker 2: mouth and sent those in for testing. So after that,
Speaker 2: when they got the swap back, all of the swabs
Speaker 2: tested negative for sperm cells. The report also clarified that
Speaker 2: the condom was the only thing that tested positive on
Speaker 2: both of those tests, the acid phosphate test and the
Speaker 2: test for sperm cells. There are a couple of possibilities
Speaker 2: that could explain this. Why Gail would have a trace
Speaker 2: of what would appear to be semen in her vagina
Speaker 2: but test negative for sperm cells. The seminal fluid, if
Speaker 2: it was present, could have come from her perpetrator, but
Speaker 2: it also could have been a trace from consensual sex
Speaker 2: she had earlier. Ray, Gail's boyfriend, told police that they
Speaker 2: did have sexual intercourse on Wednesday night. I wondered if
Speaker 2: we could recover that condom and maybe find out for sure,
Speaker 2: because that could be a key.
Speaker 1: In this case.
Speaker 2: Again, DNA testing was not a reality in nineteen eighty,
Speaker 2: but it is today. Maybe there is testing that could
Speaker 2: be done. Unfortunately, I found out this would not be
Speaker 2: a possibility because the crime lab lost the condom. Marty
Speaker 2: went down a rabbit hole trying to figure out what
Speaker 2: happened to this crucial physical evidence. The truth is, in
Speaker 2: the eighties, there were no laws on the books about
Speaker 2: preserving physical evidence the way there are now. Soil samples
Speaker 2: from Gail's body and the condom and other evidence were
Speaker 2: sent off to the crime lab. But in November of
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty a message was sent to Berwin Monroe, who
Speaker 2: was running the test on the physical evidence, and in
Speaker 2: that message he was told that the state was experiencing
Speaker 2: an extreme backlog in testing. He asked him to limit
Speaker 2: testing to test that involve things like hair comparison and
Speaker 2: gunshot residue tests. Things got worse in nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 2: According to an email Marty got years later, in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty three, some of the evidence related to Gail's case
Speaker 2: was destroyed. This is not super surprising to me because
Speaker 2: at that time news articles were talking about the fact
Speaker 2: that the Arkansas State Crime Lab building and its testing
Speaker 2: methods were super outdated and drastically needed investment.
Speaker 1: And this is sad to say.
Speaker 2: It seems like the more things change, the more they
Speaker 2: stay the same. Because this issue continues in Arkansas. Over
Speaker 2: forty years later, I will say things have improved now
Speaker 2: as of twenty twenty four, waiting periods for things like
Speaker 2: rape kits are reportedly down to around ninety.
Speaker 1: Days and they used to take years.
Speaker 2: But that crime lab continues to have issues. So back
Speaker 2: to Gail's case, the condom was a dead end. But
Speaker 2: what about the other forensic tests that were performed. Gail
Speaker 2: was tested for drugs. She tested negative for marijuana, alcohol,
Speaker 2: and LSD. Again, that's not hugely helpful because LSD and
Speaker 2: POTT leave.
Speaker 1: The blood after around twelve hours.
Speaker 2: It's not exact because it would depend on what the
Speaker 2: exact dosage she took was, if any. But if we
Speaker 2: know that the author topsy was conducted at around eleven
Speaker 2: thirty am on Friday, we're not exactly sure of the
Speaker 2: time of death, but it really doesn't even tell us
Speaker 2: if she took any drugs through all of Friday. We
Speaker 2: can't even rule out the possibility she might have taken
Speaker 2: drugs on Friday night, So those tests were not super helpful.
Speaker 2: Police started talking to people who Gail had talked to recently.
Speaker 2: They went through her phone records, which back then in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty was her home land line. One of the
Speaker 2: people she'd been in contact with recently was a guy
Speaker 2: named William Craigdean. He said that he had been friendly
Speaker 2: with Gail, and he shed some light on Gail's relationship
Speaker 2: with a guy she had dated recently named Randall Wyman,
Speaker 2: who everyone called Randy. Randy's name kept coming up in
Speaker 2: this investigation. He was friends with Gail after they stopped
Speaker 2: seeing each other, and they worked together on the same
Speaker 2: road crew. William the friend, said that he had seen
Speaker 2: Gail and smoke some pot with her and Randy in
Speaker 2: March or April. Police needed to figure out out where
Speaker 2: Gail was on Thursday night, so they started taking a
Speaker 2: look at the days leading up to the weekend. They
Speaker 2: talked to another one of Gaile's coworkers, a supervisor named
Speaker 2: Joe Jones. He said he got a call from Gail
Speaker 2: on Thursday night around eight pm. So she was at
Speaker 2: home on Thursday night at eight pm and she was
Speaker 2: behaving normally, Joe said. During that conversation, Gail asked to
Speaker 2: see if they would be working the next morning, which
Speaker 2: would have been Friday, October seventeen.
Speaker 1: Now, it had been raining.
Speaker 2: Extremely heavily off and on for the twenty four hours
Speaker 2: before Gail went missing. So Joe said he told Gail
Speaker 2: they probably would not be working on Friday due to
Speaker 2: the heavy rains, but he said she could come by
Speaker 2: and pick up her paycheck because Friday would be payday.
Speaker 1: Gail said she would.
Speaker 2: Come by the next morning to pick up her check.
Speaker 2: During their interview with Joe, police obviously were trying to
Speaker 2: figure out if he could have had anything to do
Speaker 2: with this, like they were with everyone else. He said
Speaker 2: he didn't own a gun when they asked him if
Speaker 2: he owned any weapons. They asked him if he had
Speaker 2: changed his tires recently.
Speaker 1: He said no.
Speaker 2: He said he did have a red pickup truck it
Speaker 2: was park there and he had been driving one of
Speaker 2: his other bosses trucks. They talked to Mary Jones, Joe's wife,
Speaker 2: and she said on Thursday evening, she and Joe ate
Speaker 2: dinner together. She said after dinner he went out to
Speaker 2: work on one of the cars, but she said that
Speaker 2: she couldn't quite remember. He may have run to the
Speaker 2: store for ten or fifteen minutes, but other than that
Speaker 2: he had been home all night. He went to work
Speaker 2: the next morning at around six am, which he normally did.
Speaker 2: Joe Jones, like a lot of men on that crew
Speaker 2: had apparently made some comments about Gail about her being attractive,
Speaker 2: but it seemed like that was just work talk, especially
Speaker 2: back then, a lot of the guys made comments like that.
Speaker 2: Police also wanted to talk to Sheila Gail's friend, the
Speaker 2: friend that police thought Gail was going to be hanging
Speaker 2: out with, but it turned out this was another dead
Speaker 2: end because Sheila told police she wasn't even around that weekend.
Speaker 2: She told law enforcement she had known Gail for years.
Speaker 2: She said they had been friends since nineteen seventy seven
Speaker 2: and they were actually roommates in Fort Smith, but Gail
Speaker 2: said she had moved away from Fort Smith to Van
Speaker 2: Buren in April. Then she'd gone to Colorado for a
Speaker 2: few months on a job, so she said she hadn't
Speaker 2: actually seen Gail in months. She said that she was
Speaker 2: only in Arkansas because her mother called her and told
Speaker 2: her Gail had been murdered. She was shocked, and she
Speaker 2: came back immediately, and in what's kind of a strange twist,
Speaker 2: when Sheila went into her apartment in Van Buren, she
Speaker 2: actually found a letter from Gail. She took the letter
Speaker 2: to the police, and we've seen it. It's in the
Speaker 2: case file. She didn't see this letter from Gail until
Speaker 2: after Gail was dead. In that letter, Gail said she
Speaker 2: wanted Sheila to come to Fayetteville for the weekend. She
Speaker 2: said she wanted to see her. And it's weird because
Speaker 2: Gail was telling everyone that she was going to see
Speaker 2: Shila that weekend when they really.
Speaker 1: Had no confirmed plans.
Speaker 2: In the letter, Gail was basically trying to get Shila
Speaker 2: to come see her. She said she was going to
Speaker 2: get some acid, she was going to.
Speaker 1: Pay for everything. They should hang out.
Speaker 2: Sheila really couldn't give police any information about what Gail
Speaker 2: had been doing that weekend because she wasn't there, but
Speaker 2: she gave officers some more insight into Gail. She said
Speaker 2: Gail did take drugs occasionally. Mainly she smoked pot recreationally.
Speaker 2: Sometimes she liked to take acid, preferably a type of
Speaker 2: acid called purple micro dot. Sheila also said something else
Speaker 2: that I think is pretty important. She said Gail loved
Speaker 2: her jeep.
Speaker 1: She said that Gail.
Speaker 2: Quote would not go anywhere without her vehicle and always
Speaker 2: said that.
Speaker 1: If anyone walked, it would not be her. End quote.
Speaker 2: So Gail did not like being without her vehicle. She
Speaker 2: did not like being stuck anywhere, and she always stayed
Speaker 2: with her car.
Speaker 1: And this will become important in a minute.
Speaker 2: Sheila told police that in her opinion, this was one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why she believed Gail could have been abducted,
Speaker 2: because she said she believed that Gail would have put
Speaker 2: up a fight. She wouldn't have gone with anyone willingly.
Speaker 2: Police asked Sheila if Gail had any issues with anyone.
Speaker 2: She said not really, everyone like Gail, like a lot
Speaker 2: of people. Sheila said that Ray had a reputation for violence.
Speaker 2: She said she believed that Gail was somewhat afraid of Ray.
Speaker 2: She said that once there was an incident where she
Speaker 2: and Randy and Gail were hanging out. Sheila said that
Speaker 2: Randy kind of made a joke and said he was
Speaker 2: going to call Ray and tell him that Gail was
Speaker 2: there at the time, and at that point, Sheila said
Speaker 2: that Gail said.
Speaker 1: She was afraid of Ray.
Speaker 2: She was acting like she was really scared that Randy
Speaker 2: might do that, even though Randy was kind of only
Speaker 2: kidding around. Police talked to Randy and he told investigators
Speaker 2: that he had worked with Gail for the past few months.
Speaker 2: They were building the highway Highway seventy one in the
Speaker 2: Fayeteval area together. Randy said that Ray, Gail's boyfriend, didn't
Speaker 2: have a job, at least not doing anything legal. Randy
Speaker 2: said that after Ray was laid off and after he
Speaker 2: broke up with his wife that year, he and these
Speaker 2: are Randy's words, violently beat her and accused her of
Speaker 2: being unfaithful. So a lot of people believe that Randy
Speaker 2: had violently beat his ex wife and might have been
Speaker 2: threatening Gail. A few months after that breakup, Gail moved
Speaker 2: in with Ray, so it seemed like there was some
Speaker 2: beef between Ray and Randy because even though Randy was
Speaker 2: the person who introduced Ray to Gail, they didn't seem
Speaker 2: to be getting along. Randy told police this was over money.
Speaker 2: He said Ray had borrowed one hundred dollars from him
Speaker 2: and he was supposed to get it back. So he
Speaker 2: was talking to Gail about this, and Randy said Gail
Speaker 2: told him where Ray lived. Randy said he went there
Speaker 2: and he made Ray give him forty dollars right then
Speaker 2: and made him promise to pay back the rest and
Speaker 2: Randy said after that that Ray was extremely annoyed that
Speaker 2: Gail had given him that information about where he lived.
Speaker 2: Police interviewed another friend of Gaile's name Don. She talked
Speaker 2: about Gail and partying. She said that they had gone
Speaker 2: to a party at Randy's house on Tuesday, October fourteenth.
Speaker 2: Don said Gail showed up at that party by herself
Speaker 2: and was looking for some pot. But Don said that
Speaker 2: Gail couldn't find the type of pot she wanted, so
Speaker 2: at that point, she.
Speaker 1: Said, Gail left.
Speaker 2: According to Don, Gail appeared to be acting normally at
Speaker 2: that party. She said in general, Gail wasn't a partier.
Speaker 2: She would show up and get her drug of choice,
Speaker 2: whether that was LSD or pot or whatever, and then
Speaker 2: leave and go home or to a close friends and
Speaker 2: do it there. She said that Gail did not talk
Speaker 2: much about her personal life again, because her boyfriend was
Speaker 2: pretty heavy into drug dealing. Don did remember that on Wednesday,
Speaker 2: Gail made a comment to her about the weekend about
Speaker 2: she and her friend Sheila going to get some acid.
Speaker 2: She told Don that she should come to Gaile's house
Speaker 2: to party with them. Don said the last time she
Speaker 2: saw Gail was on Thursday, She said, Gail was driving
Speaker 2: her jeep on the way to talk to one of
Speaker 2: their bosses at that work site. Don and Gail talked briefly,
Speaker 2: and then Gail got back into her jeep and left.
Speaker 2: Don said she has not seen Gail since. Dawn also
Speaker 2: had some more insight into this altercation between Ray and Randy.
Speaker 2: She said Randy had showed Ray some marijuana plants, which,
Speaker 2: according to Dawn, Ray had stolen from Randy.
Speaker 1: A picture was starting to emerge of Ray.
Speaker 2: People said that he had a habit of getting violent
Speaker 2: when something set him off. We know that Gail was
Speaker 2: at home on Thursday night because she called Joe from there.
Speaker 2: So what happened when Ray got home that night? Did
Speaker 2: something set him off?
Speaker 1: Police talked to Ray.
Speaker 2: He told them that on Thursday night he was out
Speaker 2: all night selling drugs and hooking up with a woman,
Speaker 2: a woman who was not Gail. So what really happened
Speaker 2: on Thursday night? What happened on the night that led
Speaker 2: up to Gail being killed. We've said before that Ray
Speaker 2: dealt drugs. According to the case file, he dealt a
Speaker 2: lot of different kinds, including caffeine pills, and a lot
Speaker 2: of times he would do these deals with a guy
Speaker 2: named Jody, who was a friend of his side note
Speaker 2: here much later, one of the theories about Gail's murder
Speaker 2: involved Gail owing a lot of money for drugs, or
Speaker 2: about Ray being this big time drug dealer. But honestly,
Speaker 2: other than a patch of marijuana that Ray grew that
Speaker 2: the sheriff said he knew about, the only other drugs
Speaker 2: we hear about him dealing are caffeine pills. So in
Speaker 2: my opinion, this does not appear to go with the
Speaker 2: image of Ray being this big time drug dealer.
Speaker 1: We'll get back to that later.
Speaker 2: For now, Ray claimed that on Thursday night, he was
Speaker 2: at home getting ready to eat dinner. He said his
Speaker 2: friend Jody called him and said he had some buyers
Speaker 2: for pills he was selling, so needed him Ray to
Speaker 2: go pick Jody up and take him to make this
Speaker 2: drug deal. But Ray was having car trouble. He told
Speaker 2: police that he could not get his truck started, so
Speaker 2: Ray told police he waited for Gail to come home.
Speaker 2: He told them that he said to Gail he was
Speaker 2: going with Jody to do a deal. He said they
Speaker 2: tried jumping the car with jumper cables off Gail's jeep,
Speaker 2: but that didn't work, so he told police that he
Speaker 2: asked Gail if he could use her jeep. Now, Ray
Speaker 2: says that Gail told him yes, that was fine. I
Speaker 2: have questions about this because this is contrary to what
Speaker 2: we've heard about Gail, that she always was the one
Speaker 2: to drive her car. Honestly, it seems pretty odd to
Speaker 2: me that she would just be fine with lending it
Speaker 2: to Ray so that he could go out and make
Speaker 2: this drug deal. And as we will see, she and
Speaker 2: Ray had a pretty volatile relationship. Also, we know that
Speaker 2: Gail needed her car because she was planning to go
Speaker 2: to work the next day to pick up her paycheck.
Speaker 2: She had also told her friend Sheila, they would go
Speaker 2: buy this acid and that she would pay for stuff,
Speaker 2: so presumably she would need to go get her paycheck
Speaker 2: for all that to happen. And finally, we know, from
Speaker 2: what Sheila said to investigators, Gail did not like Ray's
Speaker 2: friend Jody, So again I have doubts about this story.
Speaker 2: That Ray told that Gail just handed him the car
Speaker 2: keys and said, go on out and do whatever, do
Speaker 2: your drug deal. But let's get back to Ray into
Speaker 2: where the night took him. Ray said that once he
Speaker 2: had Gail's jeep, he drove the car to Jody's house,
Speaker 2: which was near the Fayettlee Country Club at the time.
Speaker 2: He said he got there and picked Jody up at
Speaker 2: around nine thirty or ten pm. After that, Ray said,
Speaker 2: they went to get some beer at the Chuck Wagon
Speaker 2: liquor store and then they delivered their pills. After doing that,
Speaker 2: they went to Springdale, which was a few miles away,
Speaker 2: to buy some pot. But when they got there, Ray said,
Speaker 2: apparently their contact wasn't able to get what they wanted,
Speaker 2: so they started heading back down Highway seventy one south
Speaker 2: toward Fayetville. En route, they stopped at another liquor store,
Speaker 2: the wy Liquor Store. They bought some more beer, then
Speaker 2: drove the guys who they were doing the deal with
Speaker 2: back to their place and dropped them off. Now they've
Speaker 2: gone from a car full of guys to just Ray
Speaker 2: and Jody. Ray and Jody went back to Tammy's house.
Speaker 2: Now Tammy was this other woman, the woman who Ray
Speaker 2: was seeing on the side. After they got to Tammy's,
Speaker 2: Jody made a phone call and then Ray and Jody
Speaker 2: took the jeep again. They were looking for a guy
Speaker 2: they knew. They went looking for him a few minutes later.
Speaker 2: Now it's between eleven and eleven thirty. They're trying to
Speaker 2: buy some more drugs and they're successful this time. They
Speaker 2: bought some quay lutes. Then Jamie, Jody, and Ray all
Speaker 2: went back to Tammy's house. There were a few other
Speaker 2: people partying there already, a girl named Sherry, another girl,
Speaker 2: and another guy. So this group sat around partying, smoked
Speaker 2: some pot, and then Ray and Tammy went to bed together.
Speaker 2: Ray clarified they did up. They did have sex that night.
Speaker 2: He admitted he was there all night. Jody slept on
Speaker 2: the couch. The next morning, Friday, October seventeenth, Ray said
Speaker 2: that he and Jody left the house at around six
Speaker 2: or six thirty am. Ray said that he got home
Speaker 2: to the apartment that he shared with Gail just after
Speaker 2: seven am. This part of the story gets a little
Speaker 2: weird now. According to the case file documents, Ray said
Speaker 2: that he remembered this time because when he pulled up
Speaker 2: to the house in Gail's jeep, he saw that the
Speaker 2: door to his pickup truck was open. Apparently, the clock
Speaker 2: on the dash said seven to ten am. But he
Speaker 2: makes another comment later about this being an alarm clock,
Speaker 2: so I don't know whether he means the clock in
Speaker 2: the vehicle or another alarm clock that was sitting in there,
Speaker 2: which seems very strange. I don't know if he was
Speaker 2: trying to say that Gail had done that as some
Speaker 2: kind of a message about him not being home. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: we only have Harshaal transcripts of these interviews. We have
Speaker 2: no audio, so we can't go back and ask him,
Speaker 2: and we don't know the context of those comments. We're
Speaker 2: gonna have to ask some more questions about that because
Speaker 2: it's a strange detail. It was just another unanswered question
Speaker 2: in a case that is already full of them. Anyway,
Speaker 2: after that, after he got home, Ray said he parked
Speaker 2: Gail's jeep, climbed into his own vehicle, his truck, and
Speaker 2: basically fell asleep. He said he passed out there for
Speaker 2: a few hours. This is also weird, the fact that
Speaker 2: he would go and sleep in his truck when his
Speaker 2: house was right there. So the officer asked him why
Speaker 2: he didn't go to sleep in the house. He said
Speaker 2: something about Gail, and Gail would have been more pissed
Speaker 2: off at him if she saw his vehicle and her
Speaker 2: jeep and he wasn't there, which doesn't seem to make
Speaker 2: any sense either. My theory is if Ray was telling
Speaker 2: the truth that when he got home he just didn't
Speaker 2: feel like facing her right at that moment, he had
Speaker 2: taken her car. He's been out all night with another woman.
Speaker 2: Now he's super hungover and he does not want to
Speaker 2: knock on that door. Maybe she locked him.
Speaker 1: Out, so Ray goes to sleep in the car. He
Speaker 1: said that he woke up.
Speaker 2: Around nine or nine thirty and had a headache, had
Speaker 2: a bad hangover. He said he noticed that the jeep
Speaker 2: was still there, and that's when he went inside the
Speaker 2: apartment and went to sleep. Ray said that he crashed,
Speaker 2: He slept for a while, and he woke up around
Speaker 2: twelve thirty or one. He saw Gail was still not
Speaker 2: there and the jeep was in the same spot.
Speaker 1: So what does Ray do?
Speaker 2: Does he call the police, start looking for his girlfriend,
Speaker 2: who was very responsible, or go to her work site. No,
Speaker 2: he doesn't do any of that. He called his other girlfriend,
Speaker 2: Tammy again. He said that by two or two thirty
Speaker 2: that afternoon, he had gone back to her house. Ray
Speaker 2: had some speed pills that he gave Tammy and for
Speaker 2: him that afternoon consisted of having some friends over to
Speaker 2: his house. They tried to get his truck started and
Speaker 2: weren't able to. Then he got his check cashed so
Speaker 2: he got paid, and then stayed that night at Tammy's
Speaker 2: house again, and now it's Saturday. Ray said that the
Speaker 2: first he heard about Gail being missing or something happening
Speaker 2: to her was when someone showed him a newspaper. He
Speaker 2: said he saw an item about a woman's body being
Speaker 2: found and the unidentified body wearing a Michelin jacket.
Speaker 1: Because remember, Gail was a Jane Doe.
Speaker 2: Before the police idd her, he said, when he saw
Speaker 2: that the body had been wearing a Michelin jacket, he said,
Speaker 2: right then he knew they had to be talking about Gail.
Speaker 2: He said he went home, and by the time he
Speaker 2: got there, the sheriff's police cruiser was parked outside his place,
Speaker 2: so the police took Ray in for questioning. He insisted
Speaker 2: he had nothing to do with Gail's disappearance. He seemed
Speaker 2: genuinely shocked. He told police the same thing that others
Speaker 2: had told them. He said she was well liked, she
Speaker 2: was a hard worker, He said she was one of
Speaker 2: the few women who could work in that man's atmosphere
Speaker 2: and deal with it. He said that men liked her
Speaker 2: and she got asked out a lot, but she was
Speaker 2: able to deflect that, and that people respected her. He
Speaker 2: mentioned Ray and who, as we said before, Gail dated
Speaker 2: in the past. He also said there was someone else,
Speaker 2: a superintendent at work, who had apparently made some sexual
Speaker 2: comments toward Gail, but really there was nothing at work
Speaker 2: that was alarming. Police zeroed in on Ray.
Speaker 1: As their suspect.
Speaker 2: They executed a search warrant for his apartment, the one
Speaker 2: he shared with Gail. They didn't really find anything of
Speaker 2: evidendiary worth. They found a roll of gray duct tape
Speaker 2: similar to the tape that was found at the crime scene,
Speaker 2: but that's also the same kind of tape that pretty
Speaker 2: much everybody has at home in a drawer.
Speaker 1: Again, nothing conclusive.
Speaker 2: The search warrant also showed they took a pair of
Speaker 2: Tony Rama brand Western brown cowboy boots size ten E
Speaker 2: from Ray's residence, from the gun box that was found
Speaker 2: at the crime scene, and the autopsy from the bullet
Speaker 2: from Gail's head wound. They knew that Gail had been
Speaker 2: killed with a twenty two caliber weapon, but police never
Speaker 2: found that murder weapon, and police ruled Ray out pretty
Speaker 2: quickly because he had this airtight alibi. According to law enforcement,
Speaker 2: there were lots of people who said Ray was out
Speaker 2: all night on Thursday and he didn't go home until
Speaker 2: Friday morning. Years later, Marty the private investigator talked to Tammy,
Speaker 2: Ray's other women at the time. Tammy said, yes, Ray
Speaker 2: did stay at her place that night. She admitted they
Speaker 2: were all into drugs and they were doing them and
Speaker 2: partying that night. Several people, including Tammy, confirmed that Ray
Speaker 2: was driving Gayle's cheap that night, and they said when
Speaker 2: he left Tammy's in the morning, he left in that jeep.
Speaker 2: Tammy said Ray was there all night. He may have
Speaker 2: left for ten or fifteen minutes to run an errand,
Speaker 2: but that was it. Tammy said she would love to
Speaker 2: see justice for Gail. She said police had forced her
Speaker 2: to look at the autopsy photos of Gail. She talked
Speaker 2: about how hard they were to see. Police did foul
Speaker 2: charges against Ray for possession of a controlled substance meeting marijuana,
Speaker 2: but in nineteen eighty three those charges were dropped without prejudice,
Speaker 2: meaning that charges could be refiled if new evidence ever emerged,
Speaker 2: but that never happened. The case went cold, and in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, Ray Foreman died. Randy Wyman has also
Speaker 2: passed away. In twenty twenty one, the Washington County Sheriff's
Speaker 2: Office closed out their case file.
Speaker 1: They said this was because of a lack of evidence.
Speaker 2: And they noted, quote, this case file has been microfeached
Speaker 2: and is very hard to read. Some of the pages
Speaker 2: on some of the interviews are missing. It is the
Speaker 2: recommendation of this reviewer that the case be classified as
Speaker 2: a cold case homicide until such time as new evidence
Speaker 2: is presented.
Speaker 1: End quote. In April of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Two, someone named David rose Grant reviewed the case file
Speaker 2: again and stated that the medical examiner said the victim
Speaker 2: had been shot behind the ear with a twenty two
Speaker 2: caliber weapon, but said the case file did not contain
Speaker 2: an autopsy report and pretty much left it at that.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure why he was unable to get the
Speaker 2: autopsy report, because I was unable to get it. But
Speaker 2: the reviewer's notes went on to state the victim was
Speaker 2: also run over by a vehicle, that there were a
Speaker 2: couple of suspects named in the case file, but not
Speaker 2: enough physical evidence to charge anyone. And that has been
Speaker 2: the story for the last forty years. So is there
Speaker 2: any way to figure out what happened to Gaile? And
Speaker 2: if so, what can we do next? A few years back,
Speaker 2: Marty reached out to former Washington County Sheriff Herb Marshall,
Speaker 2: who told Marty that he was always troubled by the
Speaker 2: fact that quote, it happened to my county on my
Speaker 2: watch end quote, And it's clear that it's a case
Speaker 2: that has always haunted the former sheriff, even though he
Speaker 2: left office shortly after Gale's body was found. The sheriff said, quote,
Speaker 2: I figured in my mind that she owed somebody money
Speaker 2: for drugs she wasn't paying for. My theory was Jody
Speaker 2: and Ray needed a ride that night, so they called
Speaker 2: her to come and get them, but he was out
Speaker 2: running around. That's why she didn't have any shoes on.
Speaker 2: She went and got into the jeep and went up
Speaker 2: and picked him and Jody up. They got into it
Speaker 2: because he wanted to drive her jeep. She would not
Speaker 2: let nobody drive her jeep.
Speaker 1: That's where I.
Speaker 2: Thought that he took her out there and killed her
Speaker 2: because she went and picked him up in quote, So
Speaker 2: the sheriff seemed to touch on one of the biggest
Speaker 2: mysteries of the case. There the fact that Gail was
Speaker 2: found wearing white socks, which by the way, were very
Speaker 2: dirty and torn on the bottom, but she had no
Speaker 2: shoes on, and her shoes, by the way, were never found.
Speaker 2: But the sheriff's theory does not seem to make sense
Speaker 2: because we know that Ray was driving Gail's jeep on
Speaker 2: Thursday night. Multiple people saw him driving her vehicle. He
Speaker 2: already had her vehicle, so Gail could not have gone
Speaker 2: and picked him up.
Speaker 1: She had no working.
Speaker 2: Vehicle and he already had her car, so the kidnapping
Speaker 2: theory makes less sense. And by the way, even in
Speaker 2: another scenario, if Ray had called her and asked for
Speaker 2: a ride, even if she raced to her car, this
Speaker 2: was a raining, muddy night, I don't believe she would
Speaker 2: have gone out and just socks with no shoes, So
Speaker 2: let's recap Basically, there are a few theories that are
Speaker 2: the main ones being talked about about what might have
Speaker 2: happened to gal Vatt.
Speaker 1: One was that her murder could have been.
Speaker 2: Connected to drug dealing, possibly the drug dealing of her
Speaker 2: boyfriend at the time, ray that Gail was kidnapped and
Speaker 2: killed to send a message, or that she owed people
Speaker 2: money for drugs.
Speaker 1: When Marty interviewed.
Speaker 2: Sheila years later, Sheila told him about a mutual acquaintance
Speaker 2: of theirs who said he heard Gail was unconscious when
Speaker 2: she was run over and that apparently her killer needed
Speaker 2: to run her over more than once. We're going to
Speaker 2: get a lot more into this in next week's episode.
Speaker 2: In part two, we need to figure out whether these informants,
Speaker 2: these people who were talking about rumors, are actually being truthful,
Speaker 2: if they're actually providing any information that wasn't given to
Speaker 2: the general public. Did they have information that on only
Speaker 2: the killer would know, or could they have just been
Speaker 2: spreading rumors, or could they have made up a story
Speaker 2: for their own reasons, maybe to get a better deal
Speaker 2: in exchange for a lighter sentence, or in.
Speaker 1: Some cases I've seen on many cases.
Speaker 2: People who want to appear to be really tough will
Speaker 2: imply they've had something to do with an unsolved murder.
Speaker 2: And the way to figure out these truthful confessions from
Speaker 2: the fake ones is to ask again, do they have
Speaker 2: any information that only the killer would know and to
Speaker 2: really get into that, which we will next week. The
Speaker 2: second possibility police seemed to have considered is that it
Speaker 2: was some sort of a domestic violence incident gone wrong.
Speaker 2: We know Ray had a history of domestic violence. We
Speaker 2: know he abused his former wife. This is just a
Speaker 2: supposition on my part, but I feel like Gail wanted
Speaker 2: to be seen as this strong, resilient woman you could
Speaker 2: take care of herself. So she seemed like the type
Speaker 2: of person who would perhaps be hesitant about reaching out
Speaker 2: and admitting that they're was something going on at home that.
Speaker 1: She was being abused.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, we know that even the strongest women can be abused,
Speaker 2: and often people are hiding things at home and we
Speaker 2: only find that out afterwards. The third possibility is that
Speaker 2: it was someone else, someone not connected to drug dealing,
Speaker 2: not connected to an intimate relationship with Gail. Maybe someone
Speaker 2: the police have spoken to, looked at and even interviewed
Speaker 2: but it has never been arrested. Maybe someone who has
Speaker 2: overlooked early on in the investigation.
Speaker 1: So I went back. I looked at every.
Speaker 2: Single document that we could get our hands on, and
Speaker 2: everything that we could get connected to this case. In
Speaker 2: a lot of these interviews, the pages have been lost.
Speaker 2: We know the condom evidence has been lost, forensics are gone.
Speaker 2: So I'm doing the best I can. I'm looking at
Speaker 2: forty four year old, faded documents, trying to make out
Speaker 2: the missing letters in these bleached out words. But among
Speaker 2: all of them, I found something that I think is
Speaker 2: super interesting. I found an interview police did with a
Speaker 2: potential witness in nineteen eighty, someone who said that he
Speaker 2: saw Gail hitchhiking. So on October seventeenth, nineteen eighty, hours
Speaker 2: after Gail's body was found, police interviewed a twenty nine
Speaker 2: year old man named laith Lane. He said that he
Speaker 2: saw a woman matching Gail's description hitchhiking on Highway seventeen
Speaker 2: on Thursday morning. The report said that on Thursday morning,
Speaker 2: just after seven am, laith Lane was driving south on
Speaker 2: Highway seventy one near the Ramada Inn when he saw
Speaker 2: a white female with brown shoulder lenked hair in her
Speaker 2: early twenties. He said that she was around maybe five
Speaker 2: foot seven to five foot ten, with a medium build,
Speaker 2: wearing a blue jacket with a light colored stripe on
Speaker 2: the sleeve.
Speaker 1: He got a good look at her, and after.
Speaker 2: Police showed him pictures of Gail, he said that he
Speaker 2: was pretty positive that it was Gaile Vauught and he
Speaker 2: described her outfit perfectly Laithe said that he didn't pick
Speaker 2: Gail up because he was traveling in the opposite direction
Speaker 2: and thought it would be inappropriate to pick her up.
Speaker 2: He told police he had never seen Gail before that
Speaker 2: day or since. He said he saw her just that
Speaker 2: one time when she was hitchhiking.
Speaker 1: On that morning.
Speaker 2: He said that he was on the road at around
Speaker 2: six fifteen am. He and his wife were in the
Speaker 2: car driving her to work in Springdale, which is about
Speaker 2: nine miles around twenty minutes away from where they lived.
Speaker 2: He said that he did not see this mystery woman
Speaker 2: when he and his wife were driving. He only saw
Speaker 2: her on the way back. A couple of things strike
Speaker 2: me as odd about this story. First, he could not
Speaker 2: have seen Gail on Thursday morning. Remember, we know from
Speaker 2: what Don said that on Thursday morning Gail was driving
Speaker 2: her jeep. Don saw Gail driving to talk to one
Speaker 2: of their bosses and then getting back into her jeep
Speaker 2: and driving away from the job site. Don remembers that
Speaker 2: very well because it was the last time that she
Speaker 2: ever saw Gail, so I started thinking, what if the
Speaker 2: time of death is wrong. Police first said they thought
Speaker 2: Gail was killed on Thursday night, but the autopsy report
Speaker 2: explains that rigor mortis was just beginning in Gail's face.
Speaker 2: So the medical examiner estimated the time of death between
Speaker 2: eight and ten hours prior to when he examined her, which,
Speaker 2: because he did the autopsyed around eleven thirty, would have
Speaker 2: been in the early morning hours. Parts of Gail's body
Speaker 2: were still warm to the touch. It takes about twelve
Speaker 2: hours before a body cools completely. And finally, there was
Speaker 2: the rain. It had been raining torrentially starting at around
Speaker 2: two am that morning. The rain ended in the early
Speaker 2: morning hours of October seventeenth, but the autopsy report specifically
Speaker 2: mentions Gail's clothes and hair were wet but not saturated
Speaker 2: with water, so it's very likely that she was killed
Speaker 2: after that torrential rain stopped. Also, finally, the tire tracks
Speaker 2: are fresh and they have a lot of detail in them.
Speaker 2: If Gail had been killed prior to two am, they.
Speaker 1: Would have been washed away in that soaking rental rain.
Speaker 2: I think, based on what I've seen So far, the
Speaker 2: evidence points to the fact that the police's time of
Speaker 2: death was wrong, but we need to do more investigating
Speaker 2: to be sure. We need to ask more questions about
Speaker 2: the time of death and about the guy who said
Speaker 2: he saw Gail on the side of the road, especially
Speaker 2: since I noticed something else. Laith Lane was questioned on
Speaker 2: October seventeenth, hours after Gail's body was found. How was
Speaker 2: he able to describe exactly what she was wearing on
Speaker 2: the day she was found dead, down to the Michelin
Speaker 2: blue jacket. We also have to look back at Ray
Speaker 2: because one of the reasons why the case against Ray
Speaker 2: didn't go forward was reportedly because Ray had this airtight
Speaker 2: alibi for Thursday night. We know that Gail was pissed
Speaker 2: off at Ray if he stayed out all night with
Speaker 2: her jeep, Imagine how angry Gail must have been by
Speaker 2: Friday morning, and that would mean Ray's alibi for Thursday night,
Speaker 2: that supposedly airtight albi, would not clear him. If Gail
Speaker 2: died later, we have to ask ourselves, could he and
Speaker 2: Gail have gotten into a fight after he showed up
Speaker 2: on Friday morning, or what if something else happened? What
Speaker 2: if Gail who woke up on Friday morning with no vehicle,
Speaker 2: decided she was going to go and get her paycheck
Speaker 2: from the work site.
Speaker 1: If Gail did decide to.
Speaker 2: Hitchhike that morning, she might have just missed Ray coming home.
Speaker 2: So we have to ask could someone else have picked
Speaker 2: her up along that wooded road. I'm Catherine Townsend. This
Speaker 2: is Helen Gone Murder Line. Heleng Gong Murder Line is
Speaker 2: a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's
Speaker 2: written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by
Speaker 2: Gabby Watts. Music contributed by Ben sale And this episode
Speaker 2: was scored and mixed by Jesse Niswanger. Executive producers of
Speaker 2: Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley.
Speaker 1: If you have a.
Speaker 2: Case you'd like me and my team to look into,
Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone
Speaker 2: Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six
Speaker 2: one four five at six seven eight seven four four
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