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Speaker 1: In my studio, I'm known as optimistic Andy. Really yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been called some other things too, but to say

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Speaker 1: I prefer not optimistic Andy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Off the Cup, my anti anxiety antidote reminder.

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Speaker 2: We do these great long conversations with interesting people about

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Speaker 2: their lives and mental health. But we also do a

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Speaker 2: politics podcast called Talking Politics and a coffee podcast called

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Speaker 2: Talking Coffee.

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Speaker 3: So we're super creative around.

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Speaker 2: Here, so if you want to round out your week,

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Speaker 2: check those out too. Today's guest on Off the Cup

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Speaker 2: will be familiar to fans because we had him on

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Speaker 2: in our first season. He was one of our first guests,

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Speaker 2: in fact, and we got to know him then. He's

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Speaker 2: a writer, producer and director, a podcaster, a nonprofit founder,

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Speaker 2: a candy store owner. His late wife, the wonderful actress,

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Speaker 2: director and screenwriter Adrian Shelley. You'll recall, was was brutally

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Speaker 2: murdered in two thousand and six, and that was just

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Speaker 2: the beginning of that story. He talked about that in

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Speaker 2: the first pod was really really good. Go check out

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Speaker 2: that episode again or for the first time. But I

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Speaker 2: wanted to have him back because the world's insane right now.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy it's overwhelming, it's disorienting, it's scary to a

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Speaker 2: lot of people, and he really helps make sense of it.

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Speaker 3: He can find the humor in it, if there is any.

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Speaker 2: He can contextualize it in ways that people really appreciate,

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Speaker 2: and he doesn't hold back. So he's our first repeat

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Speaker 2: guest on Off the Cup. You know him as the

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Speaker 2: host of the Backroom podcast. It's my friend Andy Ostroy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Off the Cop.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Glad to be the inaugural number two.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I gotta get robes going for repeat guests.

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Speaker 1: Orn Off the Cup, mug orn Off the Cup.

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Speaker 3: Well, I have those. I should I should start handing

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Speaker 3: those out. So welcome back. I'm really excited to.

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Speaker 2: See you since we saw you last Any life updates

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Speaker 2: anything you want.

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Speaker 3: To No update us on.

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Speaker 1: Fortunately, my life is extremely consistent.

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Speaker 3: Oh I love that for you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like groundhog Groundhog day every day. Oh, I'm

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Speaker 4: so jealous. Sounds amazing. You're on substack. How do you

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Speaker 4: find that experience being on substack?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's just another extension of my therapy. So that's

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Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, that's the way I look at it,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a podcast or a tweet or if I

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Speaker 1: just bark out something on substack, it I do it.

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Speaker 1: And I've always done that, you know, I started being

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Speaker 1: public on Twitter years ago. That was the first thing

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Speaker 1: I ever did. Like this is just sort of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, to vomit out something that upset me. So

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Speaker 1: that's kind of what I do with substack. It's like

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Speaker 1: if something really bothers me and I gotta just write

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Speaker 1: about it. So I do it for me. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I'm happy that it. You know, sometimes the things I

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Speaker 1: say or the things I write resonate with other people,

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Speaker 1: and so that's like my little audience.

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Speaker 3: Well they do. You know, I really enjoy I'm on

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Speaker 3: Subtec too.

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Speaker 2: Kind of recently, sometime last year, I went onto like

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Speaker 2: future Proof because cable news is just such a you know,

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Speaker 2: it's such a disaster right now, and it's changing so rapidly,

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Speaker 2: and you know, legacy media is just changing, and you know,

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Speaker 2: people are getting fired left and right, and I just,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know where.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be tomorrow, let alone in a couple

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Speaker 3: of years.

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Speaker 2: So I went on and I really enjoy the freedom

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Speaker 2: and independence. You know, sometimes I'll have something to say

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Speaker 2: or write that doesn't quite work for like my newspaper

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Speaker 2: column or or CNN, and so I can do it there.

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Speaker 2: But I also really enjoy the feedback from readers and subscribers.

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Speaker 2: My only complaint, Andy, and I wanted to get your

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Speaker 2: take on this, is that it's starting to feel like

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Speaker 2: a feedback loop much in the way like all media

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Speaker 2: does today. And I lament that, like people really want

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Speaker 2: you to say what they want. And I've had to

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Speaker 2: say and write a few times over there that like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not here to tell you what you want to hear.

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Speaker 2: I'm not just gonna shoot on Trump, although I do

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Speaker 2: that a lot. I'll dump on Democrats do when they've

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Speaker 2: earned it, because that's what like adults do. They tell

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Speaker 2: the truth. They are intellectually consistent and honest, and even

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Speaker 2: though not in a cult, and I was just going

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Speaker 2: to say, it can feel less like a community and

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Speaker 2: more like a cult sometimes.

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Speaker 3: And I you know, that just bothers me.

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Speaker 2: I get why, I get why it ends up becoming that,

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Speaker 2: but it bothers me.

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Speaker 3: Do you find that at all?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's I find that across platform media. Yeah. Same,

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Speaker 1: It's not just us, it's totally the same. And it

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Speaker 1: is cultish. This is it, you know, except Democrats like

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Speaker 1: to think our cult is better because like we're not

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Speaker 1: like obsessing over Jewish space lasers. We're you know, we're

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Speaker 1: obsessing over global warming, really important stuff, you know. But

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Speaker 1: but the rigidity and the closed mind in this is

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Speaker 1: the same in some regard. Granted, the consequences and the

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Speaker 1: danger the threats to America are nowhere near the same,

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Speaker 1: because it's actually rooted in good policy and the desire

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Speaker 1: to really help and change the planet, But it's the

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Speaker 1: same rigidity. It's like, if you don't I have people

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Speaker 1: say to me, like, I like everything you've said until this,

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Speaker 1: I'm unfollowed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like.

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Speaker 1: So let me see if I get this straight. I

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Speaker 1: have to have you agree with everything I say all

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Speaker 1: the time, or that's it. You're done with me. Wow, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Well, and there's this feeling around media and news consumption.

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Speaker 2: It's really starting to irk me, and it's even starting

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Speaker 2: to frighten me, Like this entitlement to hear what you

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Speaker 2: want to hear, you know, like the Megan Kelly's, Tucker

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Speaker 2: Carlson's and Ben Shapiro's and Candice Owens, they've run into

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Speaker 2: this too. When they stray from the thing they've conditioned

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Speaker 2: their audiences to want, they're scolded for it by their

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Speaker 2: own supporters. And there's like a sense among among like

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Speaker 2: Fox viewers that Fox must give them a certain kind

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Speaker 2: of news, and it's the same at MSNBC. They get mad,

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Speaker 2: like when Republicans come on, and the idea that people

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Speaker 2: are entitled to a version of the news instead of

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Speaker 2: the truth or like at very least balance.

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Speaker 3: It's just very concerning to me.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not blaming one side or the other, one

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Speaker 2: outlet over another. It's just the way media has become.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't always like that.

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Speaker 1: No, it was not. I mean we always had partisanship.

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Speaker 1: We never had this kind of like insane toxicity. We

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Speaker 1: never had Republicans completely abdicate everything that they claim to

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Speaker 1: have believed in for the last fifty years. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just look at this Minneapolis thing. It's like Janine Pierro

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Speaker 1: is threatening to like arrest people who walk around with guns.

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Speaker 1: It's like, excuse me, NRA, are you listening, Like.

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Speaker 3: Have you met It's unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Even this nationalizing elections like federalism, Hello, States rights.

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Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, that's what I see, I see a

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Speaker 1: difference into two of those things. The thing with the

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment is speaking to what we're talking about in

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Speaker 1: terms of the divisiveness, the polarization, the toxicity, the cultism,

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Speaker 1: and that is they will die on the two way hill,

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Speaker 1: except that for liberals carrying a gun. Yep, I mean

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Speaker 1: accept what. But the thing with uh, what was the

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Speaker 1: second thing you said?

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Speaker 3: Nationalizing elections?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So that I have a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: different take because I think that is Donald Trump sitting

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Speaker 1: back and like saying to Stephen Miller, watch this. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say, Republicans should nationalize the elections, and the media

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Speaker 1: and the libtards are gonna go nuts and stop talking

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Speaker 1: about it. I'll stop talk about Minneapolis, They'll stop talking

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Speaker 1: about grocery prices and inflation.

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Speaker 3: Understand why and.

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Speaker 1: So you turned on the TV and that's all they're

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Speaker 1: talking about.

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Speaker 2: But Republicans are questioning it too, because it's not a

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Speaker 2: conservative thing to say.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but it's it's not. It's not as the obsessiveness

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Speaker 1: isn't there the Republicans that I've seen like being interviewed,

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Speaker 1: it's like you know, or like Mike Johnson gave a

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Speaker 1: bizarre answer like they're they're they're interpreting it, they're excusing it, they're,

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Speaker 1: you know, they do the usual thing, like that's not

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Speaker 1: what he meant, Carolyn. Carolyn Levitt tried to dial it

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Speaker 1: back and say, that's not what he meant. And it's bizarre.

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Speaker 1: It's just bizarre because the media falls into that, and

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Speaker 1: and Democrats and and to your point, some Republicans as well,

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Speaker 1: but they fall into his trap over and over and

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Speaker 1: over again because he he has no constitutional authority to

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Speaker 1: do that. It is not going to happen. It's just

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Speaker 1: not going to happen, right, just like Trump twenty eight

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Speaker 1: is not going to happen. But whenever his back against

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Speaker 1: is against the wall and he's feeling threatened and the

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Speaker 1: media coverage is wall to wall Epstein or something, he'll

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Speaker 1: tweet Trump twenty eight and no, no, I know, and

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Speaker 1: my god, he's just like you chasing that going down

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Speaker 1: that rabbit hole.

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Speaker 3: He has these tells when his back is against the wall.

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Speaker 2: I've said this before, like first he'll do a late

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Speaker 2: night social media blitz, or he'll flood the zone saying

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Speaker 2: batch of crazy things, hoping that something sort of changes

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Speaker 2: the new cycle and another thing he'll do is have

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Speaker 2: a cabinet meeting because it's soothe is his soul right

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Speaker 2: to go around the room and have people tell him

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Speaker 2: how great he is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he has these tells.

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Speaker 1: I never watch him, he ever watch his I have

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Speaker 1: like little game like you mentioned humor before, right, so

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Speaker 1: I have to find the comedy otherwise I will go

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Speaker 1: up on the roof and jump. So in the cabinet meetings, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which are literally like you are to come to this

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Speaker 1: room and you are to make me feel good. But

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Speaker 1: then when you do it, I'm going to act surprised. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it's like, mister President, because of your leadership, we

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Speaker 1: are the greatest country in the world, and he'll go oh,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, get it here, you're older to say

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Speaker 1: that for freaking sake. I mean it's there is so

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Speaker 1: much comedy that you can find it, and the levity

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Speaker 1: is important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And just going back to media for a second,

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Speaker 2: I just want to like, I wish there was a

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Speaker 2: way to disincentivize the thing we're talking about, which is

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Speaker 2: telling telling people what they want to hear.

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Speaker 3: And it's really it's harder and harder.

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Speaker 2: To do a because when you start telling people what

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Speaker 2: they want to hear, you know, it becomes like a drug.

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Speaker 2: You have to keep doing it, and especially when they're

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Speaker 2: paying you as subscribers, like you know, you feel incentivized

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Speaker 2: to deliver a product that people want. And I just

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Speaker 2: find like, I find that while sub Stack and places

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Speaker 2: like it is such a gift to independent journalists, I

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Speaker 2: just also think it's kind of a the incentive structure

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Speaker 2: creates more of the thing we're talking about, and I

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Speaker 2: just don't know how to get away from that in media,

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Speaker 2: where you're incentivizing people to go listen to people they

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Speaker 2: don't always agree with.

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Speaker 3: You might like them a lot, but not like.

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Speaker 2: You said, one hundred percent, you know, agreement all the time.

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Speaker 2: But it's like, I don't know how to find that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to do that other than to

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Speaker 2: just keep keep doing what I'm doing, which is, you know,

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Speaker 2: I just call balls and strikes.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know. I don't know what the answer is.

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Speaker 2: And I don't want to like date this episode too

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Speaker 2: much by talking about things that are like only happening

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Speaker 2: right the second, but I do want to talk about

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Speaker 2: the Epstein Files.

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Speaker 3: What is what does Andy Austroids take on.

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Speaker 2: The Epstein files as it stands, like, right now, are

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Speaker 2: we getting a smoking gun? Is it going to actually

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Speaker 2: end with anything?

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Speaker 1: Well, the first answer I'll offer is that I hope so,

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Speaker 1: because there were some pretty heinous things that were committed

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Speaker 1: against children. I think people are forgetting that. I think

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Speaker 1: our president likes to claim he's innocent, but he projects

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Speaker 1: guilt every time he opens his mouth. Oh yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's time now for the country to maybe

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Speaker 1: get onto something else, something that people care about.

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Speaker 3: You know what, what do you say?

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Speaker 1: You are the worst reporter, no wonder to see. Shena

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Speaker 1: has no ratings because of people like you.

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Speaker 5: You know, she's a young woman.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever seen you smile.

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Speaker 1: I've known you for ten years. I don't think I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen a smile.

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Speaker 4: You know what, You're not smiling because you know you're

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Speaker 4: not telling the truth.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know, talk about his tells like, calm down, dude.

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Speaker 1: First of all, he says it's time Epstein has to

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Speaker 1: go away. Like you're the guy that said we need

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Speaker 1: to deal with this and bring down the deep state, rich,

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Speaker 1: powerful elite you know, democrat, uh sex trafficking pedophiles. But

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Speaker 1: what he said also, which when I heard it, I

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Speaker 1: was like, Bingo, there it is. It's a conspiracy against me, right,

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Speaker 1: that's his go to because with him, it's always either

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Speaker 1: confession or projection. So just like with the twenty twenty election,

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Speaker 1: when he says something's rigged against him, that's him, that's

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Speaker 1: his consciousness of guilt talking. And so when I heard that,

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Speaker 1: I was like, God, he is just so guilty. He's

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Speaker 1: a thousand times in those files the mention of him

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Speaker 1: Milania Marlago and related words and phrases thirty eight thousand times.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what I read?

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Speaker 2: His name is in the Epstein files more than the

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Speaker 2: name Harry Potter is in all of the Harry Potter

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Speaker 2: buck right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's astounding, that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Like I can say that I have nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein. I never met him in there. And

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Speaker 1: I can also guarantee you I'm not mentioned in the

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Speaker 1: Epstein files. Sure once. So if I was recently interviewed

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Speaker 1: Dave Arenberg and I asked him, I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're a former federal prosecutor. You know where there's smoke,

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Speaker 1: there's fire is not a legal term. But if somebody's

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Speaker 1: mentioned a thousand times and then thirty eight thousand times

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Speaker 1: their house, their wife, Like, are we to expect that

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Speaker 1: there is some fire here? And so whether or not

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Speaker 1: we're ever going to see accountability or justice for the survivors, see,

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Speaker 1: I really don't know. I mean, I'm starting to feel

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Speaker 1: like unless they come forward the name names, or unless

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Speaker 1: Congressman Rocanna and Thomas Massey do it, which they said

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Speaker 1: they would, or Marjorie Taylor Green in her new life,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, you know, because there's protection being taking

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Speaker 1: place here. And I saw something this morning, Jake Tapper

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Speaker 1: posted it. It was a copy of an email from

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Speaker 1: Epstein to somebody. The name was redacted. Why I don't know,

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Speaker 1: because it wasn't a survivor. And he said new Brazilian

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Speaker 1: just came nine years old. Cute, hot, sexy, gross and

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Speaker 1: it is beyond gross. Now, So who did that go to?

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Speaker 1: Why was that name redacted?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: How the hell does the Department of Justice tell us

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Speaker 1: that there are no co conspirators to indict? So this

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Speaker 1: is to me the greatest cover up in the history

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Speaker 1: of American politics. And I think if stuff were to

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Speaker 1: come out, the way it should. It would crash his presidency.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think you would. It would.

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Speaker 2: It would tank a lot of people. And as you said,

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Speaker 2: you're not in the Epstein files. You're a good guy,

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Speaker 2: so this isn't directed at you. But like, Andy, what

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Speaker 2: the fuck is.

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Speaker 3: Wrong with men?

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Speaker 2: I mean Bill Gates, Bill Clinton, Peter Attia, Richard Branson,

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Speaker 2: Steve Tish, Larry Summers, Like I mean, some of the

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Speaker 2: most successful, powerful, high profile men on the planet. We're

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Speaker 2: messing around with a known pedophile and sex trafficker. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not implicating them all in crimes, but these are

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Speaker 2: guys with a lot of life and assets to protect,

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Speaker 2: reputations to protect, families and businesses to protect, and they're

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Speaker 2: like emailing so putting in writing things like bring your harem.

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Speaker 2: That's what Richard Branson told Epstein or Steve Tish asking

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Speaker 2: if the woman he met at Epstein's house was a

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Speaker 2: professional or a civilian? Like, what the fuck is wrong

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Speaker 2: with men?

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Speaker 3: Andy? I don't understand. Explain your people.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I feel so attacked right now,

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 3: So I don't get it. I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: Book is the father of several daughters. I can tell

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Speaker 1: you that I have no idea, but I hear it.

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Speaker 1: I hear it, and I think. I just think that

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Speaker 1: men throughout history have been driven by sex and under

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Speaker 1: if sex is the tree, right, there are many different

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Speaker 1: branches on that tree. There's the normal branches.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, get married and have sex with your partner.

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Speaker 1: Right, just whatever, you know a position here, I do

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Speaker 1: new position there. I like disposition. I don't know that position.

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Speaker 1: I'll do that position. I just went into Jackie Mason mode.

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Speaker 1: I did that position, but I got I got injured

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Speaker 1: to the moon. And then there are other trees, like

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Speaker 1: you know, that go way out. And I think that

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of men who are into little

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Speaker 1: kids as sick as that is, and it's gross and

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Speaker 1: how these guys supposedly never knew it. But they're all,

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Speaker 1: I see, they're all. They're lying.

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Speaker 3: Howard, they don't believe they never knew.

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Speaker 1: Howard Lutny, who Scaramuci calls Howard Buttnick or Howard Nutlick,

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Speaker 1: two great names. He about what six months ago, said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: my wife and I went next door because he was

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Speaker 1: our neighbor in Manhattan, and we you know, in like

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve or whatever, and we saw you know, no,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five, and we saw the massage tables

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Speaker 1: and pictures or whatever. We're like later for this guy.

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Speaker 1: I'm done with him two thousand and five. Now you

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Speaker 1: see the emails last week from twenty twelve going out,

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Speaker 1: You weren't hey, We're coming down. You know. He lied,

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Speaker 1: musk Lide, Trump lie, have lied. So it's like if

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Speaker 1: someone lies to you about going to an island where

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Speaker 1: these heinous sex crimes are taking place. To me, there's

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Speaker 1: one simple question, why where are they lying? Where are

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Speaker 1: they lying? Right?

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Speaker 2: I cannot tell you. There's another side of this, the

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Speaker 2: indignity of for me going to an Ivy League school,

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Speaker 2: working on the school newspaper, getting a master's degree, working

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Speaker 2: at the New York Times for eight years, writing two

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Speaker 2: books studying political thought leaders like hayek Intotokville and Iinrand,

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Speaker 2: only to have to talk about a doctor and an

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Speaker 2: influencer emailing Jeffrey Epstein about the carb and gluten content

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Speaker 2: of pussy and have him get a contributor job at

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Speaker 2: CBS News.

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Speaker 1: Andy.

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Speaker 2: As a woman, a smart woman, I cannot tell you

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Speaker 2: how much this bothers me.

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Speaker 1: Men are messed up. I've been saying it for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Men every war, every I mean, men are

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Speaker 1: responsible for the worship in history. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's going to change.

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Speaker 2: Because the only person in prison right now is a woman,

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Speaker 2: by the way, Yeah, and she's messed up too, Like

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Speaker 2: she doesn't get a pass at all. It's in a

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Speaker 2: way more evil for a woman to sex traffic women.

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Speaker 1: But which rich powerful men.

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Speaker 3: Mn, the men get their just desserts.

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Speaker 1: There has to be justice, you know, you can't be

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Speaker 1: a pedophile protector and also own the Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: in the FBI.

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Speaker 2: It's in inane and it's just I just feel so

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Speaker 2: much for these women, the survivors. There are thousands of them, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and what they must be looking at because I was,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was not a victim of this, but

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Speaker 2: I am so injured and personally bothered by what's happened.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine being a survivor and watching the injustice

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Speaker 2: of all of this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that I always get upset about is that,

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Speaker 1: just like with me too, there are very high profile,

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Speaker 1: prominent cases. Okay, the Epstein case is one. It's got

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Speaker 1: national attention, it's got you know, sex, drugs and rock

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Speaker 1: and roll kind of sex appeal in that way, and

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Speaker 1: so it's on the news all the time. What I

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Speaker 1: worry about is if like the woman who works at

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Speaker 1: Wahwah in Kansas, right and Larry the manager is sexually

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Speaker 1: harassing her or molesting her, like she sees this going on,

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Speaker 1: and like like the US government isn't protecting these women

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Speaker 1: like chance do I have?

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Speaker 3: So true?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I'm a single mom. I live in

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Speaker 1: a trailer, I need my I can't afford to get fired.

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Speaker 1: So I've got just finish the sentence about what women

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Speaker 1: like that must, you know, what they have to do

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Speaker 1: every day in this country. And but when when the

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Speaker 1: United States president is really running a mob. This isn't

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Speaker 1: a government, it's a mob and everybody's a coppo capo whatever,

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Speaker 1: and uh you know, uh, Pam BONDI is is his

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Speaker 1: roy Cone? I mean, the man's dream came true. He

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Speaker 1: spent his life going, I want my roy Cone. He

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Speaker 1: got his roy Cone. And she just happens to also

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Speaker 1: be the Attorney General of the United States, who should

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Speaker 1: be working for US, but she works for him and

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Speaker 1: the FBI cash betail. I mean it is I can't

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Speaker 1: believe what we're dealing with. I really can't in this country.

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Speaker 2: But I want to ask you about that too, because

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Speaker 2: this is one story of many stories that you know

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Speaker 2: are happening simultaneously. They're outrageous, and you have you have kids,

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Speaker 2: you have grandkids. How do you move through all of

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Speaker 2: the awful news and make sense of it in a

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Speaker 2: way that doesn't make you want to go to the

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Speaker 2: roof and jump every single day?

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Speaker 3: Like, how do you do that? How do you put

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Speaker 3: it in perspective?

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Speaker 1: Well, in my podcast, in my studio, I'm known as

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Speaker 1: optimistic Andy. Really yeah, I've been called some other things too,

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Speaker 1: but I prefer not optimistic Andy. Now, Optimistic Andy believes

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Speaker 1: that we didn't go two hundred and fifty years in

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Speaker 1: this democracy through revolutions, civil war or yah, World War one,

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Speaker 1: World War two, the Korean War, Vietnam War, War Togate,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, Fiel nine to eleven, stock market crashes. Whatever.

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Speaker 1: I believe in our democracy. I believe in our people.

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Speaker 1: I really do. I believe that the American people by

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Speaker 1: and large are good, decent, patriotic people who respect the

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Speaker 1: rule of law. They will bend the rules a little

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Speaker 1: bit where it suits them, especially if you appeal to

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Speaker 1: some of their inner feelings. But in the end, I

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Speaker 1: think they know the difference between right and wrong, and

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Speaker 1: they know when they're lied to, which is why his

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Speaker 1: whole like you know, Rose three Prizes are coming down. Yeah, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: people know when they go to stop and shop what

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Speaker 1: they're paying right, And so that's what I believe in.

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Speaker 1: And I have this deep love of this country and

435
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 1: our democracy. I just happen to believe we're in a

436
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: very very ugly chapter. But I also believe we're gonna

437
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: get out of it. And I look at how he's

438
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: not winning. You know, everybody since the day he was

439
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 1: elected was like democracy is dying. It was catastrophizing going

440
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: on all over the place. We're doomed, you know. Chris

441
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: Murphy was like, by June, we won't have a democracy.

442
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: Like I understand why he's trying to rile people up,

443
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: get them engaged, but here we are a year lay

444
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: over over his first past, his first year already. Yeah,

445
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: he loses everywhere in the courts. He's starting to get

446
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: serious pushback in Congress among republic Republicans.

447
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 3: Because it's an election, yeard, they're worried.

448
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: Every election that has happened, Like in the last fifteen months,

449
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: we've won. We just flipped a seat in Texas Democrats

450
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 1: have So I look at those things and I say,

451
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: democracy is not only still alive, it's thriving. Because if

452
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: a year into Trump's term we could flip a seat

453
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: in Texas well, that means democracy, not dictatorship, is alive.

454
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: That means our electoral process works. That means people still

455
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 1: can go to the voting boots and change whatever they

456
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: want if they just vote. So I separate like a

457
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: horse with blinders. This is the way I wanting to

458
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: look at me from now on. Just imagine Andy and

459
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: he's got blinders on, like of course, So like Trump

460
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: twenty eight, don lemon like anything he throws like, I

461
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,479
Speaker 1: tune out most of it because most of it is

462
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: his noise, his distraction, his psychological pathology. It's not actual

463
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: on the ground substance change in this country. He's legislated

464
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: basically nothing right. Yeah, so it's just a bunch of

465
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: and he doesn't really sign the executive orders anymore because

466
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: he saw what happens there. Most of them, you know,

467
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: don't really do what he yet expected them. To do.

468
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: That's how I stay sane. I just stay focused, they

469
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: stay engaged. I try to make sure that everybody I

470
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: know votes, make sure that everyone they know votes, and

471
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: keep and with the podcast, what I try to do

472
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: is keep up the enthusiasm, keep the excitement going, because,

473
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 1: as you know from working in politics, democratic whoever has

474
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: the most enthusiastic base tends to win elections. Yeah, so

475
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: Democrats can't be Debbie downers. This chicken little, this guy

476
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: is falling. We're doomed. What does it matter? You know? Yeah,

477
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: he's he's a monster, and he controls way more shit

478
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: than he should and he knows how to break a

479
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: lot of shit. But you know, the next president that

480
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: comes in, rebuild, knock down the ballroom, rebuild the East Wing.

481
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: Like a lot of this stuff is not irreparable. You

482
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: know what he's doing overseas globally, it's going to take

483
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: a long time, I think for people to get the

484
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: trust back. But we can fix a lot of this stuff,

485
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: especially all the executive order stuff. So we just it's

486
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: got a way to hear you or fight him in

487
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: the process.

488
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: And I love your perspective. I hear that. But some things,

489
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: when they.

490
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: Erode are really hard to claw back. And I say

491
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: that as a conservative who's watched Conservatism leave the building.

492
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's gone. No one's talking about it anymore.

493
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: You see it with tariffs, you see it all.

494
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 3: Kinds of places.

495
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 2: The standard bearers of Conservatism, which used to be the

496
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 2: Republican Party, just don't care about it anymore. And I

497
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: still really do because as a set of principles, I

498
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: think it's really good. Some of that I just don't

499
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: know that is ever coming back, and that bothers me,

500
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: like on an existential level, but I also see the

501
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 2: dangers that it can bring practically, And there's a lot

502
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: of liberalism that I don't know is coming back either,

503
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: because Democrats have have had to focus on so many

504
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,719
Speaker 2: fires that there's a lot of things they've just decided, well,

505
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 2: we can't, we can't deal with that right now.

506
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 3: And I don't know. It just feels I hear what

507
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 3: you're saying, you can rebuild.

508
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 2: Nothing's ever dead or broken permanently, But it feels a

509
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 2: little bit more existentially bad to me what he's doing, Like,

510
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: are we ever going to get decency again? Because what

511
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: I'm seeing, and I talk to a lot of Democrats.

512
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: What they love about Jasmine Crockett, what they love about

513
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom is they're acting like Trump. Where's the incentive

514
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: to be like good people again, where's the incentive to

515
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: be good governors, good lawmakers, public servants instead of people

516
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: who just want to come and get famous and grift

517
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 2: And like, I don't know that that's ever coming back.

518
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good question, and that's a real concern.

519
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: I think some of those genies are out of the

520
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: bottle for sure, because Trump changed a lot of the discourse.

521
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: He changed I mean, just look at the media like

522
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: now like it's nothing for a someone on MSNBC or

523
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: CNN to say shit or even like it's like the

524
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: language has changed. But I guess it depends on whether

525
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: or not you believe the house is burning, because if

526
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: we are fighting a monster, a once in which I

527
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: think he is a once in a lifetime monster, like

528
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: people say, like, oh, if we get rid of him, jd.

529
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: Vance is no day at the beach, and like jd

530
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 1: Vance is nothing compared to Donald Trump. He he you

531
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: know Trump, you got to give him credit. He has

532
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: enormous charisma and and appeal to the people who like

533
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: him like he is magnetic. I can see it. I

534
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: don't like it, not my cup of tea, but I

535
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: understand it, and I don't want to stick my head

536
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: up my a and go like, oh Trump is stupid

537
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: or resist or is that jadvanswersn't have that, none of

538
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: them have it. So it's getting through him, get getting

539
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: waiting him out somehow. But but there's a fight in

540
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: the process or war. I mean, it is a war.

541
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,239
Speaker 1: So if you believe you're in a war, I mean

542
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: just imagine you're you're in some jungle somewhere, you know,

543
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: and you're wearing a uniform, and you got a helmet,

544
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: and you're fighting a war and somebody's coming at you,

545
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: and all you got like you're gonna stab somebody to

546
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: death if you have to, well you'll hit him over

547
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: the head with a brick and then maybe tomorrow you'll

548
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: go back to being a you know, a non violent,

549
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: peaceful person when you go home after your your tour

550
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: duty is over. But so I I lament the same

551
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: thing you do with with our the politicians on the left,

552
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: because it's almost like the you know, we heard Michelle

553
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: say when they go low, we go yeah. Now, no, no,

554
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: when they go low cut them off at the knees

555
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: like just so. But but interestingly, when you mentioned JAZZM. Crocket,

556
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: this is where we're going to see something very interesting,

557
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 1: an interesting dynamic in our country within the Democratic Party

558
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: because there's this battle shaping up between Tell Rico and

559
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: Jasmine Crockett. Because there's all this talk for years about,

560
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, Texas could become purple, we can get Texas. Well,

561
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: now after last weekend, Democrats are like, we we actually

562
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: could get Texas. I mean, there are people in Texas

563
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: who shouldn't have voted Democrat and they did so. Now

564
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: there's this you know, belief that you know, Jasmine Crockett

565
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: is not as strong a candidate as Tall Rico. And

566
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: for all the reasons why people who you know would

567
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: look at a female, a black woman. Yeah, somebody to

568
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: your point who's strong and this has a big mouth

569
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: and not and proud of it and not afraid to

570
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: use it, which is one of the reasons Democrats do

571
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: like her. But then you have Tell Rico. He's a

572
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: he's a man of faith, he's middle of the road.

573
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: He wanted you know, a red district. He's done the

574
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: impossible and you know, could he be the one to

575
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: actually flip the Senate seat? And so within the party,

576
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: Democrats are like, I love Jasmine Crockett. I can't you know,

577
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: I person of color? Like, how could I not? But

578
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: but if we're being realistic, so that's the dilemma. And

579
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: I think when that primary comes, you'll see where the

580
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: Democratic Party is at. Are they scared yeah and going safe?

581
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: Or are they or are they sticking to their guns

582
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: and voting with their principles.

583
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: You know, it is going to be interesting, but it

584
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: all just reminds me of like better Beto O'Rourke and

585
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: that that folly.

586
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 3: You know, but I you know, I get it.

587
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: I get it in the race that just happened, I

588
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: know gives Democrats some hope there.

589
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 3: You know. I cover all of this because because I

590
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: have to do. It's my job.

591
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: And I got into this, you know, twenty twenty five

592
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 2: years ago. What if I hadn't decided politics was what

593
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: I wanted to write about. I was writing sports. I

594
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: wrote at The New York Times, I wrote for Sports Illustrated.

595
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: It was fun, it felt low stakes, but it was interesting.

596
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: I could have written about culture and pop culture. Instead,

597
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 2: I took this road, and it feels like kind of

598
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 2: like where would I be today if I hadn't, And

599
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: maybe I would be happier.

600
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 3: You chose to do.

601
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:32,239
Speaker 2: This in the midst of the awfulness, and I'm just wondering, like,

602
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: what was the appeal because I'd love to get out

603
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: of it? What was the appeal to you to jump

604
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: into politics in the middle, Like, because when I got in,

605
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: it was fun, it was different, it felt empowering, and

606
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: it was more horse race stuff, it was less culture wars.

607
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: And then the Tea Party.

608
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: Came along and kind of changed a lot of that

609
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: brought populism in. But what made you want to jump

610
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: into politics and for all of this when you did?

611
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: Well, I've always been interested in politics. I mean when

612
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: I was like nine years old, I was hanging around

613
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: Nixon's headquarters and Queen's Oh Wow, getting buttons, passing out

614
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: buttons and bumper stickers.

615
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 3: You know, I had no politician for Nixon, amazing.

616
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: I had no political opinion about you. I just like

617
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: that it was like free buttons. Yeah, But you know,

618
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: I just there's always been something about politics that's fascinating me.

619
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: And maybe it's because I mean, this is a pejorative term,

620
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: but I'll use it because I can't think of anything

621
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: else but control freak. I'm a control freak. So politics

622
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: is all about control, right, I mean, think about it.

623
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: One hundred senators are really the most powerful people in

624
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: the world, you know, then you got four hundred and whatever,

625
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: thirty five or whatever, six seven whatever. Congress people very

626
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: powerful people. So it's all about power and control and

627
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: sort of charting your own destiny in a way, and

628
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: and charting our destiny. So you know, it's like nothing.

629
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: It's no different than being on the subway and looking

630
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: around and going all right, who could possibly kill me

631
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 1: right now? And make sure that all the time. Yeah, well,

632
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: it's like who controls my life? Who controls most of

633
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: my life? It's politicians. So I'm fascinated by that. But

634
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: I also have a lot of opinions, and I think

635
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: I myself as a fairly righteous dude, and like, yeah,

636
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: I also like, you know, it's either this or go

637
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 1: out and kick the dog or something. You know, don't

638
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: send me emails. I don't literally kick the dog. I

639
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 1: just I just punch him. No, I don't do that either, Okay,

640
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: I don't do anything physical to the dog. It's a metaphor,

641
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 1: and it is. I always say, like sometimes I watch

642
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: Jake Tapper, right and I know Jake, and like I

643
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: watch him and like he's interviewing someone and he's like,

644
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, Jake does not look happy right now.

645
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: It's like, none of them look happy, Like, how could

646
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: you be happy?

647
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: We're not, we're not. Let me tell you, how.

648
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: Could you be working in television news and be enjoying

649
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: any enjoying any of this because it's not normal. It's

650
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: not like normal nerdy political you know, it's not disgusting

651
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: you talking to people who are just saying the most disgusting,

652
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: vile things and defending the most disgusting, vile person.

653
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 2: And I promise it's not why any of us got

654
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: into this business, either journalism or politics. I promise we

655
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: didn't get into this business thinking we'd be here doing

656
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: nobody about that.

657
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, who thought we? Who thought we'd be here? I

658
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: mean this is I mean, well, you know what I

659
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: got to say, a lot of people thought I thought

660
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: we'd actually be here. I mean, if you go back

661
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: and look at my stuff from that I wrote in

662
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, I wrote I wrote a piece called Nixon

663
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: and Hitler. I mean I saw it then, like what

664
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: just He's easy to read, which is why I still

665
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 1: can't believe that half of the country still still does

666
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: not understand who he is and what he's done to them.

667
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: You know, that's the scary part, you know, because that's

668
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: a cult.

669
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: You love this country. I love this country. Do you

670
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: ever think about moving to another country?

671
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: Oh? I don't think about it. I fantasize me. Oh yeah,

672
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: day long, where would you go? I'm going to take

673
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: my cup of tea down to the Triviy fountain this

674
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: morning and just sit and Rome. Rome. I fantasize about

675
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: Rome every day. Yeah. And look, Europe is not, like,

676
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, a bastion of you know, greatness.

677
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 3: So let me tell you. I'm Italian. Italy is very dysfunctional.

678
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of Europe is, and a

679
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: lot of the world is. But you know, when I

680
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: watch like Cure Stormer, and I watch Carnie and I

681
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: watch Macrone, and I see all these leaders, these young,

682
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: vibrant men and women who forget her name done and

683
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: who was Australia and New Zealand, Like we deserve that

684
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: and we're going to have that again. We are going

685
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,479
Speaker 1: to have that again. Yes we are, we.

686
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 3: Are in my lifetime.

687
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, I don't Oh no, it's coming, it's coming.

688
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: Get ready. We're going to have a normal, youngish, good

689
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: decent president who actually wakes up in the morning and thinks,

690
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 1: how can I make every American's live better? When twenty eight?

691
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 3: Who?

692
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: Uh? I like Mark Kelly, I like Gavin Newsom, some

693
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: of the obvious people I don't know.

694
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: I look at a lot of videos about life in Japan.

695
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 2: Looks really safe and clean and friendly and modern. They

696
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: have subways in Japan for women only.

697
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: Are they Are they a hasidic ha? No, because they

698
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: have things just for women too. I could say that

699
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: I'm a Jew, I send me any emails, Okay, I

700
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: can make acetic jew jokes.

701
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 2: I spent a month in Belgium a couple of summers

702
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: ago my family, and.

703
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 3: They don't have.

704
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: Any It's not perfect, but they don't have the stuff

705
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: that we have. They're not worried daily about mass shootings.

706
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: They're not worried about insane people running around and stabbing

707
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: you on the on public transportation. They're not worried that

708
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 2: politics is infecting their daily life.

709
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: They're not worried about a lot of things that were

710
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 3: worried about.

711
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: And I was talking to a Belgian woman at dinner

712
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 2: one night and she was saying, well, my kids go

713
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 2: to school kind of across town and when school's over,

714
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: they just walk home. And they were like eight and nine,

715
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: like my son's age at the time.

716
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 3: They just walk home. And I'm like, do you ever

717
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 3: worry like that they won't get home? She's like no, what, No, Like,

718
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 3: how would that even happen?

719
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: Of course they would get home to a parent with

720
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: anxiety like I have. This just sounded so idyllic. Well

721
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 2: can you imagine ever getting that?

722
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and this is what scares me,

723
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: because this has become so normalized. Some people go to

724
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: that website to see which where the pedophiles are in

725
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: their neighborhood, or they look at that, or they look

726
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 1: at they look at it to see, like, I don't

727
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: mind buy a house because two houses down is a

728
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: We got one of those guys in the White House.

729
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: We are okay electing a convicted felon who's an adjudicated

730
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: sexual abuser to a judge called rapist. Yeah, we're okay

731
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: with somebody who you know, defrauded people with his university

732
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: and his charitable foundation. We're okay with all of that.

733
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: So what do you expect the rest of us to do?

734
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: How are we supposed to behave if that's who's running

735
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: the show. And that's the difference between us and a

736
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: lot of places in Europe and the rest of the world.

737
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: You know, I remember watching Berlusconi in Italy and going,

738
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: my god, how good a guy like that?

739
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

740
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, become prime minister, and now I'm like prime Berlusconi

741
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: was like Bernie Sanders compared to Trump. I mean, my god.

742
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: So we have come to a place that is just

743
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, you said it before, the civility, Like you know,

744
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: when your president makes fun of disabled people, all right,

745
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: and you're working at a gas station, Yeah, is it

746
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: okay for you to do it? Hell yeah, my president

747
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: does it. I could do it too. I can use

748
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: the R word. He called Tim Walls the R word. Okay,

749
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: I'll do it too. I work in a supermarket, I

750
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: drive a bus, I'm a lawyer, I'm this, I'm that.

751
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: So he's setting the table, yeah, for how the rest

752
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: of us, or or half of the rest of us, Yeah,

753
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: are acting and that's why it's different than you know,

754
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: places where they still believe in decorum and class and

755
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: grace and compassion and empathy and all those things that

756
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 1: he doesn't have.

757
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: You know, let's talk about boys for a second. The

758
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: rise of the neo Nazi is catching on, especially among boys.

759
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: And if you listen to people like Andrew Tate or

760
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson or Joe Brogan or Nick Fuentz, they'll tell

761
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 2: you it's because boys and men have been maligned for

762
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: years by the left, toxic masculinity, et cetera, which I

763
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: can see in a way. And I don't think we're

764
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: nurturing and empowering our boys enough. And I think there

765
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: has been sort of a soft war on men in

766
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 2: recent decades. But I even admitting that, I can't get

767
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 2: to the like, I can't make the leap from that

768
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: to like, And so of course they'll become neo Nazis.

769
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 3: Like why that thing? What? Why are so many boys

770
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: getting swallowed up into that?

771
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, we do. I mean, look, boys

772
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: are born into absolute entitlement and privilege. There's a lot

773
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: of there's a lot of pressure on them, see, you know,

774
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: to live up, to live up to you know, the

775
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: fact that everything is handed to them and they don't

776
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: have any discrimination. I mean, poor poor boys. We have

777
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: to feel sorry for them. As for why they embrace Hitlerism,

778
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: I mean, why is that catching on's why do they

779
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: like that? Like mega death crazy music? Where yeah, and

780
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: then the thrashing in the.

781
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: Pit because it's dangerous because it's there guys that.

782
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: You know, that's what they that's their view of real men.

783
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: You know, I don't get it. I don't know.

784
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'll tell you, fifteen years ago, I

785
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 2: would never have worried that my future son would fall

786
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole and into neo Nazism

787
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 2: because of politics. And now I'm I'm deeply worried about

788
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: how politics is corrupting our boys.

789
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: But the lines of blurred, the lines of blurred. Donald

790
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: Trump has had neo Nazis at the White House for dinner. No,

791
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: I know, like you know, he had. They support him,

792
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: they endorse him. They're you know, we have That's why

793
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: they march in the streets now so freely. I mean,

794
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: he's given license. That's why they storm the Capitol for

795
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, right.

796
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: No, I know, I know, and you know, I first,

797
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: we all first really got a shock of this, and

798
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: Arlottzvelt when they were marching without hoods, without masks, just

799
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: like tiki torches and all.

800
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 3: The awful things they were saying.

801
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, well, this has always been here,

802
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: we just didn't know it, and now we know it.

803
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: I had an well, you're a hundred percent right, And

804
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: that was an epiphany that I had this morning. And

805
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: I was thinking about like because I was listening to

806
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: Tom Holman give his press conference.

807
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too, and I was like, what is because

808
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 3: one of.

809
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: The reporters asked something about, you know, okay, you're bringing

810
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: back seven hundred agents, but what about like the policies

811
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: that are still on the ground, like pulling over people

812
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: of color and asking them for their IDs. And when

813
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: I heard people of color, it's sort of dawned on

814
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: me in a way that I haven't thought about it before.

815
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: And that is this entire Ice Border patrol, call it

816
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: whatever you want, a DHS fiasco. It's all about from

817
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: the top on down from the Oval Office all the

818
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: way down, of angry white people wanting to go backwards.

819
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: That's and that's so that's so put aside Minneapolis, or

820
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: put aside immigration that comes from the top on everything,

821
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: every policy. We are living in what I consider to

822
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: be and I'm sixty six, I've lived through a lot

823
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: the most racist time in this country where the white

824
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: people who want to go back to when white people

825
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: had all the spoils not only are as angry as

826
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: ever or feeling as screwed as ever, but they have

827
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: their guy in the old office telling him you're right, yeah, yeah,

828
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: and we're going to do something about it. Yeah, that's

829
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: where we're at. And so, yeah, pulling over a person

830
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: of color and asking for papers, that's some serious Nazi

831
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: Germany Gestapo shit r so. And people say, oh, it'll

832
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: make comparisons. I'm going to make comparisons because a lot

833
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: of my I'll say, ancestors and fellow Jews, like you know,

834
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: we're in Germany, going nah, it's just show the papers

835
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: because nothing's going to happen. Right next thing, you know,

836
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: you're on a train going to Auschwitz. Yes, and this

837
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: is how it happens.

838
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 5: You know.

839
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: Hitler took like thirteen fourteen years from when he first

840
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: started to want to take over power to the end

841
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: of World War Two. So it's not like concentration camps

842
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: appear overnight, right, But it starts with rounding up the

843
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: other people and or pulling them over and making them

844
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: show their papers. Like what kind of country are we

845
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: living in? You know that's not We don't do that

846
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: shit in America. But we do, okay, and we can

847
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: do a lot more if it's not checked, you know.

848
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: So that's the thing is like, we're not unless he dies.

849
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: But I happen to think he's not a healthy man,

850
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: and yeah, he's I think there's a chance that he

851
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: doesn't make it through this year. You know, I think

852
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: they're lying about what he has, his physical condition. You know,

853
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: my baseline is Donald Trump's a pathological liar. That's where

854
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: I start. Sure, So okay, so when a pathological wire

855
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: says my condition benign, Uh, okay, just flip that. What's

856
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: the opposite of the nine? He ain't making it until Christmas?

857
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: So the dementia, Like I was talking to Mary Trump

858
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: the other day, and he's got some bad stuff. He's deterror.

859
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: We are watching his his his mental acuity rot in

860
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 1: front of us, and it could lead to some bad things.

861
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: I think that's why we're seeing the heightened anger and

862
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: dangerous rhetoric and threatening behavior.

863
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 3: So yeah, he's like an old man, yeah, flashing out.

864
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's addled and angry.

865
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: Faculties.

866
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So unless he unless he kicks the bucket and

867
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: goes to Mari Lago in the sky, he's going to

868
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: be here for the next three years. We have to

869
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: deal with him. So the question is how do we

870
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: deal with him? How do we how do we as

871
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: a nation deal with him? And how do we as

872
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: individuals deal with him? Because I'll be honest, there are

873
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: times I might have said to Stephen the past. I

874
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: walk down the street with my dog at night and

875
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm, you know, like a CNNMSMB and I hear

876
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: him talk and say and I'll just go like fuck

877
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: you on the street. On the street. No, nobody's listen,

878
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: nobody knows what I'm listening to. They don't hear anything, right,

879
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: all they hear all they see is this guy walking

880
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: with a big dog and a little dog and he

881
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: screams out fuck you ah. And I'm like, Okay, dude,

882
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: this is not good guy. You don't want to be

883
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: that guy.

884
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 3: He can't be crazy.

885
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: He used to make fun of people walking down the

886
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: street cursing and screaming and nobody. So so it's it's

887
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: our individual selves and it's our country. Well we all

888
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: have a way to soothe and be, you know, try

889
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: to find some happiness and enjoy in our days. But

890
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: as a nation, we just got to do what we

891
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: keep doing. Like I think the courts need to just

892
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: keep doing what they're doing. Judges are getting angry or

893
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: and angrier. They're excoriating him. The language and their rulings

894
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: is brutal. And so the media is getting tougher. Uh,

895
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: and they weren't for a while. And voters are voting,

896
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you know, we we And there was

897
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: an interesting stat on that Texas race. It's almost as

898
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: like I think I heard something like like like forty

899
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: or fifty percent less Republicans came out to vote in

900
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: that state Senate election. And so Democrats are fired up.

901
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: They want to get rid of this guy. They want

902
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: to get rid of Republicans independence. Donald Trump has already

903
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: lost the party, has already lost them. He has already

904
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: lost young men, already lost Hispanics. Yeah, only had gone

905
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: gone Like we're talking like thirty five percent flips right,

906
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: thirty five point flips, Maga is splintering, and so things

907
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: are happening the way they're supposed to happen. But at

908
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: the same time, he is like a toddler in a tantrum.

909
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: So just like you know, when you're a parent, how

910
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: do you deal with a toddler in a tantrum? You

911
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: just pick and choose your battles, play, cad them when

912
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: you need to just write it out.

913
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 2: Well, it's been a joy talking to you. I don't

914
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: know if you make me feel.

915
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 3: Better or worse about the state of the state of

916
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 3: the world.

917
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: Right in the middle, yeah.

918
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 3: Right in the middle.

919
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: Yes, can't make up your mind. That's where I want you.

920
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: Exactly before we go, I want to do a lightning round. Sure,

921
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: what is on your playlist right now?

922
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: That's a good question. What's the Geese?

923
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, huh.

924
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: They were on the Saturday Saturday Night Live or Goose.

925
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 3: There's two bands.

926
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus, uh huh. You're gonna make me look sixty

927
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 1: six now, aren't you.

928
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I can't tell them apart either, but I

929
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 3: know there's two bands.

930
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: The one that was on Saturday Night Live. I think

931
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: it's Geese. They're a little catchy in my opinion.

932
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 3: So but yeah, it was Geese.

933
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: By and large. My playlist is really what it's been

934
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy two. Love that you know.

935
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 3: Olympics yay or nay? Are we into the Olympics?

936
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: Oh? I couldn't care less.

937
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 3: Yep, that's what I figured.

938
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 5: See.

939
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 3: What's the best movie about politics?

940
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: All the President's Men? Hands down? Hands down?

941
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, classic, it's a good one. And journalism which great

942
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 3: Valentine's Day plans?

943
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: Well, I'm single, okay, so I will.

944
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 3: Slash a movie I don't know.

945
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe hang out with my daughter if she doesn't

946
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: have anything to do, or am I go on a date?

947
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: Or am I just I don't holidays? Aren't you know

948
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: that kind of a holiday? Well, I should say most

949
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: holidays don't do anything for me, so I'm not big

950
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: on any holiday.

951
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,760
Speaker 3: Okay. What are you streaming right now? What are you watching?

952
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: What am I watching? I am watching Slow Horses and

953
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: it is amazing, great, great show.

954
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 3: Carry He's my favorite actor.

955
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: The writing is so brilliant.

956
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 3: You're a drummer. What would be your supergroup?

957
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: Me at the drums?

958
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:10,919
Speaker 3: Yep?

959
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: Right, okay, but if I couldn't play the drums, Okay,

960
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: Mitch Mitchell from the Jimmy Hendricks experience playing the drums. Okay,

961
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page on guitar, and Jimmy Hendrix next to him.

962
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: I would say, uh, probably Bob Dylan on vocals. What

963
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: with Paul McCartney.

964
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 3: Wait, hold on, Bob Dylan on vocals.

965
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: Ew, you get a problem with Bob Dylan? Yeah, I do,

966
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: I do.

967
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: I really don't like his voice. But okay, this is

968
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: your band, it's not mine.

969
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: And then well McCartney on bass and uh uh and

970
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: then that leaves probably Billy Preston on the organ keyboards.

971
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, great.

972
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 5: Uh.

973
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 3: We've talked about the Beatles. They're my favorite band.

974
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: Me too.

975
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 3: They're making a movie.

976
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: It's coming out April twenty twenty eight, directed by Sam Mendes.

977
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 2: Harris Dickinson plays John Lennon, Barry Keegan plays Ringo, Paul

978
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 2: Mascal plays McCartney. Joseph Quinn plays Harrison. What are your thoughts?

979
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: Are we excited for this or no?

980
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: Yes? Beatles Beatle things to me? Or like pizza is

981
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 1: no such thing as a bad one?

982
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 5: Yeah?

983
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 3: Okay? Uh huh?

984
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: Like you could put American cheese with ketchup on an

985
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 1: English muff and throw it in the oven. I'll still

986
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: love it. Yes, So like even the cheesiest Beatle movie,

987
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good.

988
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 2: You were in show business for a while. What's your

989
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 2: best show business story?

990
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 4: Um?

991
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: Yes, Well, So I produced a movie called Serious Moonlight.

992
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: It was my late wife, Adrian wrote it. It was

993
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: in the film she was shopping after she had put

994
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: waitress to bed and was waiting to hear from Sundance

995
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: if she got into the festival. She died, So I

996
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: took that script. I did all the meetings she did

997
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: out in La. Everybody wanted to change the film, bringing

998
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: a new writer or whatever, and I was like, I'm

999
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: not going to make this movie just to have somebody

1000
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: else change it. It's got to be the way she

1001
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: would have done it. I decided to produce it myself,

1002
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: raised seven figures and we made the movie with start

1003
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 1: Meg Ryan and Tim Hutton. So Tim Hutton for anybody

1004
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: who's seen the movie, it's a movie about a woman

1005
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: who catches her husband cheating on her with his like

1006
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: twenty one year old girlfriend, and he's planning to leave

1007
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: her and go to Europe with her. So she knocks

1008
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: him out and ties him to a duct, tapes him

1009
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: to a chair and a toilet. It's sort of like

1010
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: misery wow, yeah, until he professes his love for her

1011
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: and promises to stay with her and work on the marriage.

1012
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: So it's a crazy concept.

1013
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1014
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: So the way she knocks him out is she as

1015
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: he's leaving the house, He's like, I'm out of here

1016
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: and I'm going with my girlfriend of Europe. Boom, she

1017
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: picks up a plant and throws at him and it knocks,

1018
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,399
Speaker 1: you know, knocks him out next to you, you know, fate

1019
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: to black opens up. He's to a chair, right, amazing.

1020
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: So in the movie business, in the in show business,

1021
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: there's everything's fake, right, So a glass, you know it's

1022
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: not glass. Somehow the props people didn't replace like an

1023
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: actual plant with the fake plant. So we threw like

1024
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: a real plant at him and oh my god, and

1025
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: like really knocked him out. And this was the first

1026
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: movie I ever produced, not that I pulled my lot

1027
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: and I'm standing and I said to my partner who

1028
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 1: produced Waitress, I said, I think we just killed Tim Hutton.

1029
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, because he was out and and it

1030
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: took him a few minutes to come to and his

1031
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 1: head was bleeding, and I was like, oh my god.

1032
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: So that was that was a scary moment in the

1033
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: early show. Busy years of Andy es amazing. Then I

1034
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: have a few others, but they must remain private.

1035
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 3: Okay, understood. We already know how you feel about iced coffee.

1036
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 2: So the repeat guest question is, and when is it

1037
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: iced coffee season?

1038
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 3: It's what's your go to coffee order?

1039
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 1: Tea? I don't drink coffee, but I want coffee. I'm

1040
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: having serious coffee. What do you call it? Envy?

1041
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 3: Right now, you can have it.

1042
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: I haven't had coffee in about thirty five years. Why

1043
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: because I drank so much of it. Back then, when

1044
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 1: it was just coffee, there was no Yeah, to quote

1045
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: Larry David, there was no coffee bullshit, it.

1046
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 3: Drinks yeah right.

1047
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 1: So but now it's like you know, pumps. You can

1048
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: get a pump of this and a pump.

1049
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 3: Of that, a half cap frothy.

1050
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1051
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 3: No, it's insane and.

1052
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: It smells so goody perfect beverage tea.

1053
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 2: All right, Andy Ostroy, we love you. Thank you so

1054
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 2: much for coming back to Off the Cup.

1055
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 1: Thanks for having to get you a mug for your tea.

1056
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: Give me a mug with the number two on it.

1057
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 3: Okay, that's good.

1058
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: Be good.

1059
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: Next week On Off the Cup, it's CNN's Dana back.

1060
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 5: Can you imagine this era without just being able to

1061
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 5: go home and watch, you know, watch the end of

1062
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 5: Netflix or Bravo or you know, HBO Max or.

1063
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 3: All of it.

1064
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know about you, but I spend

1065
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 5: a lot of time in fiction land.

1066
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1067
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: part of the Reason Choice Network.

1068
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 3: If you want more, check out the other reason.

1069
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,919
Speaker 2: Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native Land pod.

1070
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,959
Speaker 2: For Off the Cup, I'm your host, Si Cup. Editing

1071
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me,

1072
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: Si Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review

1073
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. Follow or subscribe for new

1074
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 2: episodes every Wednesday.