1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: The art of cheesemaking is referred to an ancient Greek mythology. 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Evidence of cheese has been found in Egyptian tombs dating 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: back centuries. Today's episode is all about cheese. Cheese. My 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: name is Eva Longoria and I am and welcome to 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: Hungry for History, a podcast that explores our past and 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: present through food. On every episode, we'll talk about the 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages. 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: So make yourself at home, eh. Archaeologists have found evidence 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: that dates cheesemaking in La Mancha, which is in charge 10 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: of Manago since the Bronze Age. Yeah. Yeah, cheesemaking has 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: been around for millennia. We don't know exactly, like who 12 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: made cheese for the first time, but it's been an 13 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: important food in ancient civilizations from Western Asia just southern Europe. 14 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: It's been an important food for thousands of years, already 15 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: valued at the dawn of civilization. Wow, that's interesting because 16 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: it's a dairy product. Yeah, but it's it's sort of 17 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: a byproduct of your sheep, your goat, like it's really 18 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: using your cow, really using just such a shame. We 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: don't know who said, you know what to be a 20 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: good idea. I'm going to take them by product of 21 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: this gal and make something else, like, I know, how 22 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: did they figure out? Yeah, we don't really know. But 23 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: there there's actually a Sumerian which is it called a 24 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: relief that dates back, you know, to the dawn of 25 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: civilization that has the entire process of sheep's cheese. So 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: they that depicts the entire process. So sort of it's 27 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: been around forever from the Sumerians all the way back 28 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: to the third millennium BC. So there's writings that have 29 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: only recently been deciphered that have references to the importance 30 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: of cheese. Who put cheese and wine together? Was it 31 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: the Greeks? Because that's a good combo. It's a great combo. 32 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: This genius was that what says it said in Greece 33 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: about there was evidence of all this cheese and gallons 34 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: of wine that were unearthed. So that sounds like a 35 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: party to me, it does, it does totally totally sounds 36 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: like a party. And there's this woman this this tomb 37 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: that was discovered at three thousand BC. Tomb in Egypt 38 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: that was discovered and a woman in her sixties was 39 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: buried with a bunch of different dishes, fourteen different dishes, 40 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: including wine and bread and cheese. So there you go, 41 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: three thousand BC. You know Egypt, that's soup, meat, fish, 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: foul cakes, fruit, wine, bread, and three pots of cheese. 43 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: Is so you know, in green and green, like classical 44 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: Greek and Roman, I feel like an art cheese and 45 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: bread was always seen with water and wine or just 46 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: as a meal cheese, nots wine. I mean, it was 47 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: just sort of the perfect combination. So that hasn't really 48 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: that hasn't really changed, no, and they would serve it 49 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: with honey and wines. Yeah, this why change a good thing? Exactly? 50 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: Why change a good thing? So in ancient Greece, goat 51 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: cheese and cheap sheets was were the best known, and 52 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: we even see it in Homer's Odyssey. The Cyclops in 53 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: Homer's Odyssey was a keeper of sheep and a maker 54 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: of cheese. So it's sort of been around forever, and 55 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: the first time that we actually see references of it 56 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: in Spain, where we are dates to the Roman Empire. 57 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: They talk about smoked cheeses, they talk about sort of 58 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: all sorts of different cheeses, but at the time Italian 59 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: cheeses were the most famous. And let's talk about cheese 60 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: absent places, which was meso America zero or the all 61 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: the Americas, all the America's zero cheese. They didn't have Harry, 62 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: And it took a while for it to really catch 63 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: on because the people, all the Native American people were 64 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: lactose intolerant, So they're lactose intolerant because they weren't exposed 65 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: to it exactly, and it took them a while for 66 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: their palates. They were still tolerant, but not really like 67 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: we shouldn't really, we really shouldn't be eating this much cheese. 68 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: We let's talk about cheese here in Spain because people 69 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: here have been eating it since the fourth millennium, because 70 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: I want to talk about Spain. And then obviously how 71 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: we got to Mexico. Yes, were there any special tools 72 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: or like how they mixed it different religiously than it 73 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: was for commercial consumption. Well, one thing that I find 74 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: really interesting, and this is what I was looking for 75 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: i'll day to day, is this one particular cheese. There's well, 76 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: what cheese has is rennet, which is which comes from 77 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: the animal, from the stomach of basically baby cows, sheep, lamps, 78 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: goats that are still nursing, right, So it's this stuff 79 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: called rennet that it only baby animals can produce it 80 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: because they're nursing. Once they start eating grass, they stopped 81 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: producing it. So to make cheese you need rennet. And 82 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: in Jewish religion it's not you can't mix meat and 83 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: milk and rent it is considered meat. So they discovered 84 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: this that you could get a natural plant based rennet 85 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: from something called a thistle, which is it's a cartoon 86 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: so it's similar to an artichoke, so that I'm not 87 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: sure what part of the plant, but that sort of 88 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: produces a type of rennet which is like an acid 89 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: that helps kurdle the which is which is what when 90 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: animals are producing this, it helps curdle the meat, so 91 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: it separates the protein from that from the water. But 92 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: there's a cheese called and or sad and these were 93 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: are cheeses that that are made with with this, and 94 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: it was okay because you know, it didn't constitute mixing 95 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: meat and milk. Um. But we see cheesemaking in recipes 96 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: like dating backed you know to early sort of medieval 97 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Spanish recipes like cheese with garlic. You have cheese fritters, 98 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: so even in Italy, there's this really interesting book from 99 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: the mid fifteenth century and there's a dish of squash 100 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: with saffron, sugar and spices, finished with egg yolks and 101 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: aged cheeses. So we start seeing in got the Land books. 102 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: There's a fourth century got the Land book by a 103 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: person named sent Sob that had lots of different types 104 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: of cheese recipes, cheese sauces, cheese fritters. So it was 105 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: definitely used in the Spanish diet, not only cheese and 106 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: bread and nuts like we were talking about earlier, but 107 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: in cooking, you know, like to to add to two dishes. 108 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: So there's this long, you know, history, and then of 109 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: course there's max Ago. When we come back, we're tracing 110 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: the history of cheese in Mexico. Don't go anywhere. What 111 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: are your favorite Mexican dishes that have cheese. I don't 112 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: even know a Mexican dish that doesn't have cheese. I 113 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: know it's a lot, and it's interesting because it took 114 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: a while for it to become part of the diet. 115 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: But like caesetti, yes, of course I have Getti has 116 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: all the time, even in sauces, like child it has 117 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,559 Speaker 1: like a fresco with with sugar and with my corn 118 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: my east yeah fre like you said, yes, it's such 119 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: a typical street food, those huge casesetti. Yes, from the streets. 120 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: There's nothing with guests there or squash blossom or something 121 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: like that. It's amazing. I have has a few times 122 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: a week. And my favorite, like when I don't know 123 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: what to make for dinner or or land it's just 124 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: too busy. Really good cheese, really good, and that's dinner. 125 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: That was my after school snack when kids went home 126 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: and had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I had 127 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: a caesa. I probably did too. We were in a 128 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: peanut butter and jelly sandwich type of family. Not really, 129 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: I don't really like but it was after school or 130 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: um flower or or yeah that was like here, shut up, 131 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: that was my mom, Wait till dinner. Yeah. Yeah. The 132 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: Spanish they came that conquered Mexico. They came from an 133 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: area that made sheep's cheeses, not cow cheeses. So but 134 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: that they brought their other animals with them, so really 135 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: they didn't really start making cow's milk until they got here. 136 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean cow's milk existed in Spain. But the conquistadors, 137 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: they were used to sheep cheeses when they got until 138 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: next So that's why montego is big in in Mexico. 139 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: It's the Mexican manchego is called manchego, but it's very 140 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: different than the than the Spanish, than the Spanish montego 141 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: and the Mexican manchego is made with cow's milk. Oh interesting, 142 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: but the first cheese is made in Mexico were made 143 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: with cheeps, she sheep's milk milk, so hard to say 144 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: sheep sheeps, Yeah, it is sheep sheep and they were. 145 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: So there's so many things that were made first in Puebla, 146 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: Like you know, you could say there's so many things 147 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: that were first made it but it took a while. 148 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: Like the natives, they weren't used to this, so it 149 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: took a while for them to develop a tolerance for 150 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: lactose and liking for it. So the first cheese issco's right, 151 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: a sort of lighter she cheeses. But they also said 152 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: cheese making skills were not shared with indigenous communities like 153 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: the Spaniards made them in New Spain. In Mexico, and 154 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: so it really delayed the cheese eating culture in Mexico. Yeah, exactly. 155 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: They sort of kept it, you know, to themselves. Yeah, 156 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: so you have the manchego cheese and they were lactose 157 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: intolerant and they were exactly, they don't want to. So 158 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: we have the early cheeses and Puebla, and then we 159 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: also have early cheeses in the north in present day 160 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: Nobo Leon and they started the Manchego's style semihard cheeses. 161 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: But again, growing up in Laredo, we used my mom 162 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: used to get groceries in Revlaredo, mostly both but but 163 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: but all the good stuff was in Mexico, like really good, 164 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: better protest and all of that, and she used we 165 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: always had manchego cheese. So when I first tasted real 166 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: man like the Spanish menchego cheese, is like, what this 167 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: is not my chego cheese. So I was used to 168 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: the Mexican cheeses. The taste completely different. Well, cheese plays 169 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: a partners all Mexican regional cuisines, like not just text 170 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: mex but Chile, Chile, Chile in Chila la sauces like 171 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: uh nogada which is walnuts. So once this cheese culture 172 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: took off in Mexico, it was kind of reflected the 173 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: rest of the world because it was fresh and soft 174 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: and firm and hard and aged and not. Oh look, 175 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: blue cheese is the only category not produced in Mexico. 176 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: This is why, this is why I don't like it. 177 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: I didn't grow up with it. I wasn't exposed to you. 178 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that's why you don't like it. But yeah, 179 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: it's the only cheese. There's about sixty traditional cheese is 180 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: produced in Mexico, but there's so many of them that 181 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: are sort of getting lost. It's an art form that's 182 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: really getting lost. I was just in um Emi Gun 183 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: a few months ago, and I went to a market 184 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: and they had all of these cheeses on the floor. 185 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: I mean not on the floor, but like on a 186 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: on a tarp on the floor, and some of them 187 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: were just so just salty, and they were unbelievable different colors. 188 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: Here's a picture. Oh yeah, Now, was that this was 189 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: the usually you should in Mexico. Most produce and people 190 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: get their their groceries from the medicado. You don't really 191 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: go to a supermarket. You go to medicaldo and if 192 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: you go to the Medicago, there's lots of cheese, tons 193 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: of cheese. I mean, this is just from one really 194 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: small mercalo and I'm just counting real quick. One that's 195 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: a little bit orange, some different shapes of white, round ones, 196 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: some wrapped ones, or some of the little cup that 197 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: are more like look look more like kinema. And then 198 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: I see some that have a leaf that's the you 199 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: know what, it tastes like. It tastes like you glipse 200 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: mint and sage combined. It's not my favorite, not your thing. 201 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: It's now I think that it's it's used a lot 202 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: in and cooking, and this is like super arties and 203 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: all cheese. This is not something that we would ever 204 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: find in the US, like Mexican cheese is other than 205 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: you know, whaka l a. We have a huge Oakan community, 206 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: so we can get those cheeses. And then I don't 207 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: know if those are it's probably not what you make. 208 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: It's the industrial kiss el because to import it and 209 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: it for to be on a shelf, it would need 210 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: all the bad shit in it EXI one you have 211 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: to sell within the week. When I was in go 212 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: Oahaka doing my uh lahaka, Yes, how was that using 213 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: I made? G How was I've never amazing so you've 214 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: never seen it, which anywhere else outside of Ohaka, it's 215 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: called or wahak and cheese. It's like a string cheese. Yeah, 216 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: it's like a string cheese. But in in Wahaca you 217 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: call it cheese. You call it kissil mean, you don't 218 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: call it. It's like French fries. Do you call French 219 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: fries French? And in France just f it's just frice. 220 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: But no, we went to one of the last producers 221 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: that are making it by hand artisanally because it's now 222 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: been mechanized so much, just there's such a demand for worldwide. 223 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: But the traditional or yeah, the traditional cheesemakers still use 224 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: this beautiful cow's milk from a farm of the cow's 225 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: next door, you know, like that you can see. So 226 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: he showed me a mechanized factory made cheese compared to 227 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: what they make, and it is night and day because 228 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: there's so much other stuff they put in in the 229 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: mass produced one. It's even a different color. If it's white, 230 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: that's uh mass produced. Really it's made from a factory. 231 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: It has a little yellow to it. It's usually homemade made. 232 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: And so Cassio, the history of Cassio was it is 233 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: a mistake. It was a different cheese. It might have 234 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: been a manchego that they were making. And there's a 235 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: teenage girl who left it unattended and as she came back, 236 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: she was like, oh my god, I forgot about the cheese. 237 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: And so she poured boiling hot water into it to 238 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: try to save it, and it started to curdle even faster. 239 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: So she tried to knead it back into what it 240 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: was and that's what made it stringy. Yes, and it 241 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: was string She was trying to save her family's income 242 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: for the month and ended up making a happy mistake. 243 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: Oh god, the best best mistake ever is is one 244 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: of the most delicious Mexican cheese. Is like, oh my god, 245 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: it's so salty? Do they salted at the end? That's 246 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: the preserve, the preserve they put They just salted by 247 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: hand as they're stretching it. So is it they just 248 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: put it in like salted water? Is that what they do? Know? 249 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: It's it's it's water. And then they did did you do? 250 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: And then as it starts coming out, they start making 251 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: it into a rope. And in that part right when 252 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: they start wrapping it into that beautiful form, when it 253 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: comes in. They just get salt and they they roll 254 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: it salt just like literally with their hands with their 255 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: hands and massage it in into So is it that's 256 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: so fascinating? So is it the quality of the of 257 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: the milk, right, That's what makes the cheese so good? 258 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: Is it? The quality of the quality of the quality 259 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: of the met the quality of the milk, really good 260 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: milk depends on what the cows eat, right, if they produce, 261 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: and also the grass or green or if they exercise, 262 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: like if they have good exercise, if there being if 263 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: they're being happy, animals produces really like a more protein. 264 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: So just healthy cows produce healthy milk, produce healthy delicious cheeses. 265 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: Mexico has four cheeses that have been granted the DIO trademark. 266 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: UM granted the di O and that was Coltica, which 267 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: is um, it's kind of visit the it's it's harder, 268 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: it's a little bit more like parmesan ish. It's it's 269 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: it's a hard, very salty, you know cheese. It's salty 270 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: and nutty. Um. And it's more of a firm it's 271 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: a firmer cheese. Wow. And then which is it sounds 272 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: like that Dutch cheese that's inspired. It's inspired by it, yes, 273 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: but it's different than the than the because that one 274 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: is a Dutch cheese. The one that they use in 275 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: Yuka then is a Dutch cheese from chiapass is a ball. 276 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: It's actually two different cheeses. It's one type of cheese 277 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: for the outside that's a little bit hard and then 278 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: a creamy from the inside. And it's made from cow's milk. 279 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: And the states to Portfilio the As Dictatorship, which was 280 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy six to nineteen eleven, inspired by the Dutch cheese. 281 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's and then well I love oh me too, 282 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: because that's our sour cream, right, yeah, which is more 283 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: of a Creme Fresh. It's more of a Creme fresh. 284 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: I put it on everything. It's delicious. And then what's guests, 285 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: it's also it's from Tabascas from the crambly porous cheese. Yeah, 286 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had these cheeses, but I've 287 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: had for sure, I've had, but I haven't had the 288 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: I don't think i've had the guest of right, maybe 289 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: not the I think I've had just get that, you know, 290 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: at the store, at the store like that you could 291 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: find at any Ralphs or you know, though I've had those, 292 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: I don't think i've had the gun like the real 293 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: stuff that was originally made from cow's milk the mountain 294 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: range during the rainy season and brought down to be 295 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: aged by the Kota all that. Yeah, No, probably haven't 296 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: had that. I think i've had that. I think it's 297 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: fascinating that these four having an origination like that, they're 298 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: that they've granted them that this you invented. Because cheese 299 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: is so old, how could we have any denomination new 300 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: origin of cheese. It all came from somewhere else. But 301 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: that's so cool that this one is like, Nope, this 302 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: is Mexican. I think that is so cool, Like it 303 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: makes me want to go to Mexico when we come back. 304 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: The cheesy talk continues more after the break. Welcome back 305 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: to Hungry for History. I'm a big fan of Atonio 306 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: Restaurant in Highland Park, California. Owner that is San Nthanio 307 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 1: is a Los Angeles bace chef known for her unique 308 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: takes on classic Spanish dishes. Here she is sharing a 309 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: childhood memory about cheese and telling us what makes a 310 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: great cheese board. Hi there, my name is Teressa Montagne. 311 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: I'm the chef owner of Aton in Highland Park, Los Angeles, 312 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: were a Catalan tapas and paia restaurant. I have a 313 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: funny story from my childhood, and I hope my sister 314 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: doesn't kill me for this. But I grew up in 315 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: a large Hispanic family and sometimes it was like the 316 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: Hunger Games, fighting for the best snacks. And one day 317 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: my sister bought herself a nice cheese, pretty sure, she 318 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: labeled it and said don't touch. But somebody got into 319 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: the fridge and took a big bite out of her cheese. 320 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: And when my sister discovered this, she freaked out and 321 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: accused everyone and went on this big, long investigation. This 322 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: was known as the cheese incident in my family, and 323 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: we went years not knowing who beat the cheese until 324 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: one night, I think we were having some drinks, probably 325 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: five or ten years down the road, and my little 326 00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: brother Joe blurts out, I beat the cheese, and it 327 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: just it was hilarious because it was just the running 328 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: joke for at least a decade of who bit the cheese. 329 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: Two simple things to think about when you're putting together 330 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: a cheeseboard, texture and milk or style of cheese. I 331 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: like to have a creamy cheese, a semisoft cheese, and 332 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: then a hard cheese and sometimes a wild card cheese. 333 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: Maybe you can include a blue cheese or a crumbly cheese, 334 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: perhaps a cheese sauce that you can put together. There's 335 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: so many different ideas, but I'd like to keep it 336 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: very simple and just focus on the cheese itself, highlighting 337 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: the quality and like I said, the textures and the 338 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: styles of the cheese. It's Sunday in Barcelona, and we're 339 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: in Barcelona, now in the big city. Now in the city, 340 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: now in the big city. And you said everything is 341 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: closed on Sundays. Everything I didn't. I didn't know that 342 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: it applied to food as well. So I was ching 343 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: to cheese shops and even grocery stores. I was hoping 344 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: to um to find a nice cheese shop and get 345 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: a bunch of really interesting cheeses. But I did find one, 346 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: just grocery store, and I got a selection of cheese 347 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: is I don't know what exactly I got to which 348 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: are very very soft. And then this one that we 349 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: think is Manchego is hard cheese yellow that because frisco 350 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: is very white. The reason we don't know what this 351 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: hard cheese is because it's not labeled. It just says vehicle, 352 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: which means an old sheep confused about what that is? Okay, cheese, 353 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: I love cheese. Don't threaten me with a good CHICOUTI 354 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: board I love. I could live off for like cheese, bread, 355 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: olives like I love, I love. This is the cow 356 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: is very white? Can you taste the difference? Yes, this 357 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: is white because it was usually a goat cheese. It 358 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: has a stronger taste and that doesn't have a strong 359 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: very mild, very mild goat cheese or cow cheese. What's 360 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: that one? We don't know? I mean, doesn't matter all cheese. 361 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: This is cow. This one with the blue with the 362 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: blue package, and this orange package is a goat. It 363 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: doesn't taste like doesn't so these that we have to 364 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: the cat frescos are very soft, and there's one that's 365 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: sort of kind of brie esh. And then I want 366 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: to taste this without the bread because I like this 367 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: is the bread. Taste taste without the bread, because that 368 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: one has no taste. This one so mild. Is it 369 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,239 Speaker 1: you are you're supposed to like just crumble that on thing. 370 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: It feels like like milk. Yeah, drop my cheesebread to 371 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: second rule, very second rule. Yeah, lovely. I like the 372 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: goat cheese without the bread. I like it better. They're 373 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 1: very very mild, like this is like almost m like 374 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: I would almost have this with fruit and honey for breakfast. 375 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: You need you need a it needs something jam or 376 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: some sort. It's more like a it's more like a ricotta, 377 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: but a little firmer. How is this one that's Montego? 378 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: Montego to me is very boring? Really, I'm not a 379 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: Montego aficionado. Really. I love parmesan, My love parmesan. To 380 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: tell me what this tastes like. I don't know what this. 381 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: I don't know what it tastes like that it reminds 382 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: me something. I don't know if I like this, Yeah, 383 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: it reminds me of a lunchable, you know, like a lunchable, 384 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: like I don't even know if that's a cheese. And 385 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: I don't know if I like this, I don't know 386 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: what it is. I don't know if I got the 387 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: finest selection of cheese is it's a cow cheese it's 388 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: it's a round cheese with a hard sort of like 389 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: the Dutch cheese that Briano is made out of in 390 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: m whack and you've got don Oh my god. But 391 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: this is a meal for me right now in front 392 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: of us. We have some French bread, a bunch of 393 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: different cheeses, some olives and nuts. Like what else? I 394 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: can die and go to heaven. This could be my 395 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: last meal. Yeah. I was at this restaurant which I 396 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: wanted to take you to the castle. Oh yeah, like 397 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: the medieval castle has a dinner, but it's like five hours. 398 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: So every time every night I'm like just too tired 399 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: because it's one of those long At the end of 400 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: the meal, they roll up a table and when I say, 401 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: it's like a six foot table and it's all cheeses. 402 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Oh I think I took a pick. 403 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: Didn't I send a picture to you? Oh my god? 404 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: And I was like, why did this come at the 405 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: end of the meal? That could have been the whole meal? Yes, 406 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 1: well probably because I would have filled up on it. 407 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: But what is that? What is that? What is why 408 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: do some people put it at the beginning and some 409 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: people put at the end of the meal. When do 410 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: you think you should have cheese all day? What's appropriate 411 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: time to have cheese? I'm not really sure how the 412 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: cheese well I feel I feel like I see it 413 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: more at the beginnings of the meal, right, like to 414 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: open up the appetite, especially when you go to Italy 415 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: like the Apa TiVo our. You know, it's like a 416 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: little sprints or a little bit or drink and she's 417 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: just to open up the appetite. Oh my god, that 418 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: isn't unbelievable. This is literally a six ft table with 419 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: every single color. Oh my gosh, So did you taste 420 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: a bunch of them or was it? No? I picked 421 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: like that's my kind of cheese. That brize. You like 422 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: the cream, the crey, I like a sheep brethe super 423 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: creamy like do you love like the triple cream? Like 424 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: the French breeze, Like the super creamy French breeze. French Breeze. Well, 425 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: I loved traveling the world of cheese with you. This 426 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: was like, yes, from the Greeks and the Romans and 427 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: the Egyptians all the way to Chiapas and who has 428 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: been amazing cheese jury. Thank you guys for listening and 429 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: spending your time with us. Thank you by everyone. Hungry 430 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: for History is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership with 431 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: I Hearts, my podcast network. For more of your favorite shows, 432 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 433 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.