1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And today on Stuff to 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 3: Blow Your Mind, we're going to be talking about a 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 3: concept called euro hydrosis. I'm not going to do any 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 3: fancy roundabout introduction. I think we owe it to you 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 3: to cut right to the chase, which is that today 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 3: we're going to be talking about the biological reasons an 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 3: animal might want to poop and pee all over itself. 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is gonna be one of those episodes. So 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: if you're not in the right headspace for this discussion, 14 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: you know, come back and listen to the episode another time. 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: But I think most of you are probably on board 16 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 2: for this. 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: So before we get to the reasons why, I think 18 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 3: we should start with just a kind of visual introduction 19 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 3: and observation, and it is that if you look at 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 3: some long legged birds strutting around in their natural habitat, 21 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 3: maybe wandering in the grass or on the rocks, foraging 22 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 3: for food or getting ready for mating, you will sometimes 23 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 3: see their legs covered in a pale residue and Rob 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 3: I'm attaching some images for you to look at here 25 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 3: in the outline, but people at home, you may want 26 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 3: to look these up for yourself when I give you 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 3: the names. So the examples I'm about to mention would 28 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 3: be three stork species. One is Seconia episcopus, this is 29 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 3: the wooly necked stork. Another one is Micteria lucocephala, which 30 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 3: is the painted stork, and another is Leptoptalus creminifer, the 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 3: Marrabou stork. Now, these are all storks with long, thin legs, 32 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 3: I would say very roughly, you know, body length or 33 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: longer standing in an upright posture. And in the pictures 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: I've provided for you, rob these come from a paper 35 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 3: that we're going to talk about just a minute. You 36 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 3: can see in patches that the legs and feet have 37 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: a natural pigmentation. 38 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 4: They've got maybe a. 39 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: Gray or brown or black color on the skin of 40 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 3: the legs and feet. But in all three of these images, 41 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 3: the legs are mostly covered in some kind of white substance. 42 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: And if you had to guess what it is, what 43 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 3: would you think it is? Indeed, what you're probably. 44 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: Thinking, it's not some sort of a glittery bomb right, 45 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: it's not. It's not any kind of as we discussed, 46 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: it's not clothing that they're wearing here over their their 47 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: long legs. 48 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 4: It's something else, that's right. It is the bird's poop. 49 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 3: Technically, in mammal terms, you might want to say it 50 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: is both urine and feces, because birds deal with their 51 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 3: excreta in a kind of different way than mammals do. 52 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 3: They basically do it all in one go. It's not 53 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: a separate poop and pee. It's all one thing. 54 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 2: Yes, the glory of the Cloaca, which a long time 55 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: listeners to stuff the Blu Mind have a fair amount 56 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: of familiarity with. Though I don't think we've done an 57 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: episode on the kloaca recently. An old episode on the kloaca. 58 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 3: Remember it's a classic from many years ago. I think 59 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 3: you and Julie did some cloaca. 60 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And then it's come up, you know, it 61 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: comes up anytime we're potentially talking about reproduction and digestion 62 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: when you know, concerning birds and other animals. Sometimes it 63 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: pops up in discussions of prehistoric creatures as well. 64 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 4: That's right. 65 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 3: So with these animals with the bird or reptile lineage, 66 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: you're going to be doing digestive waste, renal system waste, 67 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: and reproduction is just all going in and out the 68 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 3: same hole, the kloaca. So anyway, I got interested in 69 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 3: the concept of eurohydrosis, the idea that birds would be 70 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: intentionally having an adaptation to excrete waste all over their 71 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 3: own bodies, all over their own legs, and so I 72 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 3: was looking for scientific sources about this. So I found 73 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 3: a paper from twenty twenty one that lays it all 74 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 3: out pretty well. This is a paper in the journal 75 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 3: Scientific Reports, and I apologize if I pronounced any of 76 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: the author's names wrong here. It is by Julian Kabeo Vergel, 77 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 3: Andrea Soriano, Ridondo Auxiliadora Viegas, Jose A Maseroje M. Sanchez Guzman, 78 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 3: and Jorge S. 79 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 4: Gutierres. 80 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 3: And the paper is called eurohydrosis as an overlooked cooling 81 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 3: mechanism in long legged birds. So basically, all animals on 82 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 3: Earth need to regulate their internal body temperature, and there 83 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 3: are a lot of reasons for this. Of course, we're 84 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 3: all basically different types of water bags moving around and 85 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 3: reproducing ourselves, so at the extremes you need to manage 86 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 3: yourself as a water bag, you need to prevent your 87 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 3: water content from freezing solid or turning into steam. But 88 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 3: beyond those extremes, animals also need to keep their body 89 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: temperature within a fairly narrow range to protect cellular function 90 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: and facilitate the chemistry of metabolism, like there are certain 91 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 3: enzymes in the body that don't work right if they're 92 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: outside of a certain temperature range and so forth. And 93 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 3: there are broadly two different ways that an animal species 94 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: can be oriented with respect to the regulation of body temperature. 95 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 3: These are ectothermy and endothermy. Endotherms, also known as warm 96 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 3: blooded animals, generate their own internal heat from metabolism, so 97 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 3: they burn food energy and use homeostatic mechanisms like shivering 98 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 3: and sweating and so forth to keep body temperature within 99 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 3: a very tight range. Mammals and birds are generally endotherms. 100 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 3: They primarily regulate their temperature with internal mechanisms. Ectotherms, on 101 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 3: the other hand, sometimes called cold blooded animals, regulate their 102 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: body temperature mostly with the help of the outside environment. 103 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 3: So these are the animals that you would think of 104 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 3: as sun basking or cooling in water in order to 105 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: manage their body temperature. Ectothermic animals include most reptiles, amphibians, 106 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 3: and fish. Though to be clear, the cut between ectothermy 107 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 3: and endothermy is not a clean cut. There are a 108 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: lot of kind of blurry cases in between, just sort 109 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 3: of a generally helpful distinction. Now, there are advantages to 110 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: each of these major strategies. We could come back and 111 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: go deep on this someday, and we've talked about it 112 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: somewhat in the past, I believe, But a very simplified 113 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 3: version is that endotherms animals that primarily generate their own 114 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 3: heat through metabolism, they can do a lot more. They 115 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 3: can sustain more muscular activity, they can grow more powerful brains, 116 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: they can survive in a greater range of different climates 117 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: you know you don't usually see like reptiles and extremely 118 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 3: cold climates and so forth. But they also require a 119 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 3: lot more food. Ectotherms are efficient because they don't leave 120 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 3: the motor running all the time. They can usually go 121 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 3: much longer in between meals and can survive rough patches 122 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: by kind of going dormant. Now, because this paper is 123 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 3: focused on birds, we're in the domain of the indotherms, 124 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: the warm blooded animals that primarily generate heat through their 125 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: own internal metabolic mechanisms, but even endotherms can't regulate everything internally, 126 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 3: and the authors begin the paper by discussing various ways 127 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 3: that endothermic animals do still have to protect themselves from 128 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: external heat stress, from getting too hot because the environment 129 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 3: is too hot. And some of these defense mechanisms against 130 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 3: overheating are physiological and some are what you'd probably call behavioral, 131 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: and the authors say that typically the first response, the 132 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 3: first priority response, in the responses you go through when 133 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: you're encountering heat stress is behavioral, and this could involve 134 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 3: the selection of cooler microclimates, going to cooler places from 135 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: warmer places, or what they call heat dissipating behaviors, and 136 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 3: there are many different kinds of heat dissipating behaviors in nature. 137 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 3: This could mean something as simple and as familiar to 138 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 3: us as reducing physical activity. You know it's hot out, 139 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 3: you stop moving around so much, or moving out of 140 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: the sun and into the shade, or things like getting 141 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: in the water for a swim. Being submerged, even in 142 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 3: what feels like fairly warm water, actually removes heat from 143 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 3: the body quite efficiently. The author is mentioned later in 144 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: the paper that the thermal conductivity of water is twenty 145 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 3: five times that of air. So you might have had 146 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 3: this experience before where you know, even in a pool 147 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 3: that doesn't feel very cold, the water feels nice and warm. 148 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 3: You spend too long in the pool, you really will 149 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 3: start to chill out and you need to get out 150 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 3: of the water and warm up. 151 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can basically could basically like roleplay all 152 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: of these like you almost have like an innate pull 153 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 2: towards these various thermoregulation options. You know, if we were 154 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: to position you, say, you know, on a nice pool 155 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: patio on a hot summer day, what are some of 156 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: your options. Do you choose the umbrella, do you choose 157 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: the pool, do you choose the shade of the house, 158 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: and so forth? 159 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 4: That's right. 160 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 3: And then there's another class of heat dissipating behaviors which 161 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 3: could be called like postural adjustments, and this could be 162 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: just positioning the body in different ways to maximize how 163 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 3: much heat it is getting rid of. One example is 164 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 3: spreading out the body tissues to increase your surface area. 165 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: So think about how when you're cold, you kind of 166 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: try to shrink down, don't you You try to shrink 167 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 3: your body into a ball and reduce your surface area. 168 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: You might hug your arms into yourself and kind of 169 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 3: kind of crouch. But in the heat, if you're overheating, 170 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 3: you don't want your legs touching each other, and you 171 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 3: don't want your arms touching your body. You want to 172 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 3: splay out maximally to have maximal surface area, which means 173 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 3: heat can escape your body with the greatest efficiency. 174 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: Or you might want to fan out your neural spine 175 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: sale for a yes, or if you want to regulate 176 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: your temperature that way, if you have a neural spine sale, 177 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 2: I'm not going to presume everyone has one. 178 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 3: Or if you're a bird, you might want to fold 179 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 3: unfold your wings, hold your wings out to let heat 180 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 3: radiate that way. You know, different animals exactly the spine sales. 181 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 3: This is a great example. You know, different animals have 182 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 3: different ways of increasing their surface area and radiating more heat. Now, 183 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: if the endothermic animal cannot escape heat stress with just 184 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 3: the behavioral responses, it has to switch gears into what 185 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 3: the authors call rapid physiological adjustments. This is things that 186 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: the body does we would usually think of as involuntarily 187 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: to try to remove heat faster. And these can vary 188 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 3: across different types of animals, but it could include things 189 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 3: like in humans, sweating, in other animals, panting, or increasing 190 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: the breathing rate to dissipate more heat from the lungs 191 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 3: and the respiratory system. Now, the authors point out that 192 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 3: in birds, one of the most common physiological mechanisms for 193 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 3: removing heat is what they call panting. I've seen some 194 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 3: sources reject that terminology because maybe because they think it 195 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 3: incorrectly implies it's the exact same thing that dogs do, 196 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: but either it's similar either way. For birds, panting involves 197 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 3: rapid breathing with an open mouth, so they might hold 198 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 3: the bill open and breathe in and out very rapidly 199 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 3: to purge heat through evaporation from the warm, moist tissues 200 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 3: inside the mouth, throat, and lungs. This is also sometimes 201 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 3: accompanied by another response called googler fluttering g u l 202 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 3: R fluttering, which means like they would, the bird will 203 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 3: vigorously vibrate the muscles and membranes inside its throat while 204 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 3: panting to further increase evaporation and the purging of heat. Now, 205 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 3: these physiological adjustments they do work. They will purge heat 206 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 3: from the body and help avoid hyperthermia, help the animal 207 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 3: cool down, But they're also very costly. They're costly and 208 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 3: thus risky to the animal because they can waste important 209 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: resources like energy and water. Birds can lose a lot 210 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 3: of water through panting and fluttering, and in addition, the 211 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 3: authors mentioned that panting in birds can force potentially undesirable 212 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,599 Speaker 3: changes in blood chemistry. So if you're an animal in 213 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:18,239 Speaker 3: the wild fighting for survival, you have these physiological mechanisms, 214 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 3: these sort of rapid body adjustments that you can rely 215 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 3: on if you have to, but you would like. 216 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 4: To avoid them. 217 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: You would like to avoid going into these wasteful physiological 218 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 3: protections against heat if you can help it, and the 219 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: more efficient behavioral methods should be your first line of defense. 220 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 3: So for a human analogy, it's usually it's going to 221 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 3: be less costly to your body to just get into 222 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 3: the shade and get out of the heat than it 223 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: is to start sweating bullets. In their introduction, the authors 224 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 3: of this paper introduce a concept from zoology called heat 225 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: dissipation limit theory, which argues that in indotherms, the problem 226 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 3: of how to deal with excess heat produced by metabolism 227 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 3: limits how much which energy you can take in and 228 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 3: by consequence limits reproductive output. So the author's right that 229 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 3: under this theory, heat dissipation behaviors could really be crucial 230 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 3: to the evolutionary success of a species because they allow 231 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 3: more chemical energy to be devoted to foraging and reproduction 232 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 3: and things like that, rather than to physiological mechanisms simply 233 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 3: for getting excess heat out of the body. And the 234 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 3: authors mentioned that the sort of research context of this 235 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 3: paper is that thermoregulatory behaviors and animals are increasingly being 236 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 3: studied because of the current and future increases in heat 237 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 3: stress on wildlife due to global warming, where the ability 238 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: of an animal species to deal with heat stress without 239 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 3: resorting to costly physiological mechanisms may be the difference between 240 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 3: adaptation and extinction. So this is something that is probably 241 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 3: just going to get more and more attention from people 242 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 3: who study wildlife, especially as the heat stresses of environments 243 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: are changing more rapidly. Now, another interesting fact about how 244 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 3: birds protect themselves against overheating has to do with what 245 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 3: the authors call quote unfeathered and well vascularized appendages, meaning 246 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 3: parts of the body that are bare so not covered 247 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 3: in feathers and parts of the body containing a lot 248 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 3: of blood vessels, and examples here would be the bill, 249 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 3: the bird's bill around the mouth, and the legs because 250 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: these parts of the body are typically not insulated by 251 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: feathers and lots of blood flows through them, and for 252 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 3: these two reasons, these parts of the body can be 253 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: utilized pretty well as what the authors call thermal radiators 254 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 3: to purge excess heat, and this is especially the case 255 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 3: for storks. The storks belong to the In scientific classification, 256 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 3: they belong to the family Sickniady, which storks typically have long, 257 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 3: bare legs and most often live in warm or hot 258 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 3: climates with little shade. So storks have an internal mechanism 259 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 3: for making use of these thermal radiators in the body. 260 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 3: For making use of the long legs for temperature management, 261 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 3: storks can actually alter the blood flow to their legs, 262 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: constricting the blood vessels down there when it's cold out 263 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: so less blood is flowing through and there's less heat exchange, 264 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 3: and then dilating the blood vessels in the legs when 265 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 3: it's hot, promoting more heat loss from the body down 266 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 3: in the legs. But in the case of storks, the 267 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 3: use of the legs as thermal radiators. Goes one step further, 268 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 3: and here's where we get back to the topic for today, 269 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 3: eurohydrosis the author's right quote. Notably, storks can deliberately excrete 270 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 3: onto their legs when exposed to increasing environmental temperatures, a 271 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 3: phenomenon known as eurohydrosis. When overheated, storks repeatedly direct liquid 272 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 3: excrita toward their legs, only one leg at a time, 273 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 3: which usually evaporates before reaching the toes. So it's hard 274 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 3: to imagine this from a human perspective, but the more 275 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: you think about it, the more it does make biological sense. 276 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 3: Imagine you're out in the sun on a blazing summer day. 277 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 3: The heat's really getting to you. You have a few 278 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 3: options to cope. You could stop moving around and flop 279 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 3: down in a chair. You could get out of the 280 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 3: sun and into the shade. You could hop into a pool, 281 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 3: or if those options are not really available to you 282 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: at the moment, you could poop all over your own legs, 283 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: one leg at a time, and then hope that that 284 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: helps cool you off. 285 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: Granted, there are certain consistency challenges here. Yes, yes, some 286 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 2: dietary adjustments might be necessary in order to ensure this 287 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: as a viable tactic for human beings. But I think 288 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: we all have great imaginations, we can see it. 289 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 3: I'm not recommending this as a tactic for human beings. 290 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 3: I don't know that would work for a human. It 291 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 3: might be a bad trade off. But it works for 292 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 3: the storks. But the question is how does it work 293 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 3: for the stork? How does it cool the body? Well, 294 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 3: it is actually the same physical principle at work as 295 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 3: many other thermoregulation techniques in nature. It is evaporative cooling. 296 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: We've talked about evaporative cooling and a number of contexts 297 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 3: on the show before. I think we did an invention 298 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 3: series on the history of air conditioning, The Invention of 299 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 3: air Conditioning, where we talked a lot about evaporative cooling, 300 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 3: and it's come up in a biological context as well. 301 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 3: But the short version is that the phase transition from 302 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 3: liquid water into water vapor requires a lot of heat 303 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: energy to take place. So water that is evaporating into 304 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 3: the air cools down very rapidly and in turn cools 305 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 3: whatever it is touching, such as your body if it's 306 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 3: on the surface of your skin. And if you ever 307 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 3: want to do a simple experiment in your home. To 308 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 3: see evaporative cooling at work, you can try this is 309 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 3: kind of fun. You can get two bottles of water 310 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 3: at the same temperature room temperature bottles of water, and 311 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: you put them both in front of a fan, and 312 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 3: now one you just sit there with nothing, you know, 313 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 3: by itself, but the other one wrap the bottle in 314 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 3: a wet towel, set them both in front of the fan, 315 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 3: and then come back in like half an hour. The 316 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 3: regular bottle will not have cooled off significantly, but the 317 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 3: bottle that you wrapped in a wet towel will be 318 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,239 Speaker 3: very cold because as airflow from the fan causes the 319 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 3: water in the wet towel to quickly evaporate, it will 320 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: suck heat from the water in the bottle and make 321 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 3: it cold. I think this is an old trick that 322 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 3: like people traveling in desert climates, you know, without artificial 323 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 3: cooling used to use where they would you know, they'd 324 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 3: have like a big jug of water, like a big 325 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 3: skin of water, and to keep it cool as they're 326 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 3: traveling in the hot desert sun. They would also get 327 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 3: like a cloth and wet it at the beginning of 328 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 3: the day and wrap it around the outside of this 329 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 3: skin of water, and as the water evaporate from the 330 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 3: hot cloth on the outside through the day under the 331 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 3: hot sun, it sucks heat from the water inside and 332 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 3: makes the water very cold. And evaporative cooling is why 333 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 3: sweating cools the body. You know, as sweat evaporates from 334 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 3: your skin, it steals heat energy from your body and 335 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 3: it cools you off. Now, of course, sweating has a downside, 336 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 3: which is that it causes you to lose water and electrolytes. 337 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 3: So when you're hot and sweaty, it's very important to 338 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 3: keep hydrated. To compensate for the water loss. Exercising in 339 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 3: the hot sun one oh one, you got to drink 340 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: lots of fluids. The same is true for birds. Now, 341 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 3: birds don't sweat, they don't have sweat glands, they can't sweat, 342 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: but they do have their own evaporative cooling techniques, and 343 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 3: as we talked about, the panting is one of those 344 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 3: techniques where they can use evaporative cooling in their respiratory 345 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: system with the open bill rapid breathing, and eurohydrosis is 346 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 3: one of these techniques. The author's right that eurohydrosis is 347 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 3: relatively rare among birds, because it requires ready access to 348 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 3: a lot of drinking water, but plenty of bird groups 349 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 3: have been observed to do it. They list New World vultures, storks, condors, gannets, 350 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 3: and boobies, and eurohodrosis has been known about for a 351 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 3: long time, but the authors say there still has been 352 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 3: relatively little investigation of what exactly are the environmental and 353 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 3: physiological factors that determine it, like what causes one bird 354 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 3: group to use eurohydrosis and another group to not use it. 355 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: So the authors came up with a systematic way of 356 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 3: looking into this. Now, this particular study relied on essentially 357 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 3: repositories of scientific media, like imagery of birds from various 358 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: field locations that was associated with metadata, so that you 359 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 3: could try to correlate images of birds doing certain things 360 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 3: and the environmental data about them. So this was not 361 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 3: a direct field test with variables that the authors could manipulate, 362 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 3: but they were just trying to establish correlations between like 363 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 3: environmental factors and factors about the bird's bodies, along with 364 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 3: observations of do these birds poop on their own legs 365 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 3: or not? So what environmental factors did they find correlating. 366 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 4: With the use of eurohydrosis? By storks. 367 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 3: The authors found that high temperatures, high solar radiation, higher 368 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 3: air humidity, and low wind speed were all factors that 369 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 3: would increase the baseline heat stress risk for an endothermic animal, 370 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 3: and storks in environments with all of these conditions were 371 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 3: more likely to engage in eurohydrosis. They also found that 372 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 3: it was more common among stork species that forage on 373 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 3: dry land as opposed to those that commonly inhabit water 374 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 3: bodies and forage by wading, which kind of makes sense 375 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: to me, Like, if you can get your legs wet 376 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 3: without pooping on them, all the better, right, Some storks 377 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 3: are not in a position to spend as much time 378 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 3: hanging out in the water. 379 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: Right right, Or you're dealing with water that's very shallow. Yeah, 380 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 2: you know, we've all seen storks in the wild, I think, 381 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah, sometimes they're in very shallow waters. 382 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 3: Now, even storks that sometimes weighed in water do apparently 383 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 3: use eurohydrosis, just less often. 384 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 4: For these species, it. 385 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 3: May be more limited to times when circumstances create a 386 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 3: higher heat risk, such as during reproduction when they need 387 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 3: to be out of the water in the heat for 388 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 3: extended time. But anyway, the authors say that the hypothesis 389 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: that eurohydrosis correlates to open and warm habitats was confirmed. 390 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 3: Birds that sort of live out in the open in 391 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 3: hot places, they're the ones that are going to be 392 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: more likely to do this to help cool their bodies. Now, 393 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 3: there were some other hypotheses that had been put forward 394 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 3: by these authors and other authors that were not confirmed 395 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 3: in this research. It had been hypothesized that stork pigmentation 396 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: would be correlated to the use of eurohydrosis. The idea 397 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 3: is maybe that birds with darker pigmentation absorb more heat 398 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 3: from the sun, but this was not supported by the survey. 399 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 3: They did not find that correlation. It had also been 400 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 3: hypothesized that eurohydrosis would directly correlate to the latitude where 401 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 3: birds live, with tropical species practicing it more. This was 402 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 3: also not strictly supported, though again there's some complications because 403 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 3: some of these birds, you know, they will travel live 404 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 3: at different latitudes different parts of the year, and again, warmer, 405 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 3: more open environments did predict it, it was just not 406 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 3: strictly latitude. Another thing that was not supported was a 407 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 3: hypothesis about body mass. This was something that the authors 408 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 3: of this paper predicted. They thought that higher body mass 409 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 3: would predict more eurohydrosis because the animal would have more 410 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 3: water reserves to take advantage of. Like, if you're a 411 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 3: bigger animal, you can drink more water, store more water 412 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 3: in the body. You can also you've got more to 413 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 3: waste in pooping on your own legs to cool off. 414 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 3: But this was actually not the case. This might have 415 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 3: to do with the fact that these storks all had 416 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 3: access to water bodies for regular drinking, even if they 417 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 3: didn't spend a lot of their time waiting around in 418 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 3: that water, so maybe internal water stores were less of 419 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 3: a concern. Looking beyond storks, the authors note that even 420 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 3: other bird groups that practice eurohydrosis, like New World vultures, boobies, 421 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 3: and gannets, they all tend to breed or forage in hot, 422 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 3: open land areas under the sun, and they also tend 423 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 3: to have relatively large and highly vascularized legs, so there 424 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 3: seemed to be some common environmental and physiological pressures at work. 425 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 3: Now some other interesting observations from their conclusion I thought 426 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 3: one was that when comparing different ways of cooling the 427 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 3: body at the cost of energy and water reserves, the 428 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 3: authors conclude that eurohydrosis is actually cheaper than panting, which 429 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 3: was kind of surprising to me that that was counterintuitive, 430 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 3: but they said this is supported by the fact that 431 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 3: birds who have the adaptation tend to engage in leg 432 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 3: pooping at a lower temperature threshold than the temperature threshold 433 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 3: for panting. So I think kind of like how if 434 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 3: you're a human, humans will typically resort to like changing 435 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: into short sleeves before they will resort to like jumping 436 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,239 Speaker 3: into an ice water bath. You know, one is like 437 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 3: a more severe, costly activity than the other, and it 438 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 3: seems like for these birds, panting is the more severe, 439 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 3: more costly, and risky activity. The authors also note that 440 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 3: other animals, apart from birds, use alternative evaporative cooling methods, 441 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 3: not just not just sweating like we do. They say, 442 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 3: some mammals produce excess saliva when hot and then use 443 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 3: evaporative cooling through the mouth or even cool the body 444 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 3: by like drooling or licking on themselves on the outside 445 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 3: and then allowing that saliva to evaporate. Rob I know, 446 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: you've got an alternative evaporative cooling method to talk about 447 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 3: in a minute, But they end up saying that there 448 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 3: could be some tradeoffs involved here. There's possibly that this 449 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 3: is not a strong not something strongly established, but a 450 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 3: possibility is that there could be a tradeoff between mate 451 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 3: signaling based on the pigmentation of bird legs and the 452 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 3: cooling benefits of euro hydrosis. But this is yet to 453 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 3: be fully explored. But the idea here would be if 454 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 3: this were the case that it helps you advertise mating 455 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 3: fitness better, if like the correct pigmentation on your legs 456 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 3: is showing, and that by pooping all over your legs 457 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,239 Speaker 3: this like changes the way you look and sort of 458 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 3: downgrades your mating appeal. So there could be some push 459 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 3: and pull there, but that wasn't very well established. But 460 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 3: more briefly, I did want to mention a second paper 461 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 3: that involved three of the same authors as the previous 462 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 3: paper because it had some interesting follow up on this 463 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 3: and involved a or direct method. And so the second 464 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 3: paper was by again three of the same authors, Kabeo, Vergel, 465 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 3: Viegas and Gutierres, and this one was called keeping Cool 466 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 3: with poop Eurohydrosis lowers leg surface temperature by up to 467 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: six degrees celsius in breeding white storks, published in Ecosphere 468 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three, and this study was a direct 469 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 3: attempt to measure that the magnitude and duration of the 470 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 3: evaporative cooling that you get from eurohydrosis in free ranging birds. 471 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 3: This study used observations of eurohydrosis in white storks or 472 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 3: seconias econia, paired with thermal imaging and microclimate measurements to 473 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 3: see like exactly how much benefit the leg pooping was providing. Now, 474 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 3: this next part in the abstract did make me laugh. 475 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 3: They write, quote, we show that eurohydrosis can reduce leg 476 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 3: surface temperature by up to six point seven degrees celsius, 477 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 3: which is actually four point four plus or minus one 478 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 3: point zero four degrees celsius. Yet its cooling effect was 479 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 3: of short duration, lasting no more than two point five minutes, 480 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 3: and decreased with time since defecation. Which actually that makes sense, right, 481 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 3: because like, if you're trying to work through evaporative cooling, 482 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 3: as the bird poops on its leg, it will be 483 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 3: very it will have a great cooling effect while the 484 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 3: poop is still very wet, but then as it evaporates, 485 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 3: it will dry up, and then it will provide less 486 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 3: of a cooling benefit and may even have some negative effect. 487 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 4: In fact, if it like cakes on you know. 488 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: Let's keep all of this in mind as we perceive, right. 489 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 3: So, but then there's the second second thing here. The 490 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 3: selection continues quote. Thus, for your hydrosis to significantly contribute 491 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 3: to heat dissipation, storks must perform it repeatedly when overheated. 492 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 3: So the leg pooping must go on and on, and 493 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 3: it turns out it does. The authors found that the 494 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 3: white storks here can poop on themselves eleven times per hour. 495 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 3: And I did a little math there. So with like 496 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 3: two point five minutes of cooling with each blast, that's 497 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 3: twenty seven point five minutes of cooling per hour. If 498 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 3: they do it eleven times, almost half of the time 499 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 3: of the hour is in cooling mode. So the authors 500 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 3: estimate that eurohydrosis can cover quote four percent of the 501 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 3: daily field metabolic rate for an adult stork. 502 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 4: Wow. 503 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,719 Speaker 2: So it's like any cooling system in a house that 504 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 2: might it might not be on all the time. That 505 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 2: would probably be just biologically impossible, but it's going to 506 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: keep coming on periodically to try and keep the temperature down. 507 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great comparison. It'll it'll trigger repeatedly over 508 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 3: time to kick off little short periods of cooling and 509 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 3: then the body temperature will come back up again, and 510 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 3: then the bird will release the excreta again and it 511 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: will set off another short period of cooling, and it'll go. 512 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 4: Back and forth. 513 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 3: Now, I just did want to I mentioned this on 514 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 3: the earlier study, but I did want to emphasize again, 515 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 3: unless you think this is just silly, this is actually 516 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 3: interesting and relevant knowledge, and will things like this will 517 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 3: be of increasing importance to wildlife and conservation biologists over time. 518 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 3: The author's right quote, Gaining knowledge about behavioral thermoregulation in 519 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 3: the heat is therefore crucial to better predict the future 520 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: persistence and vulnerability of species under different climate warming scenarios. 521 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 3: A lot of these species are going to be living 522 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 3: in places where the local climate is increasing in heat 523 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 3: over time. That's increasing the heat stress on animals that 524 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: live in the wild, and some animals will be better 525 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 3: or worse able to deal with it than others. There 526 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: was another question that came out because I saw some 527 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: stuff online in discussions about eurohedrosis that was about possible 528 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 3: other functions. It seems pretty clear certainly in storks it's 529 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 3: playing a role in cooling the body, But is eurohidrosis 530 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 3: just to cool the body or in some species. Could 531 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 3: it be playing another role as well, Like I saw 532 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 3: some ideas that it could possibly have an antibacterial function. 533 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that brings us back to the gross and 534 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 2: wonderful world of vultures. These splendid kings and queens who 535 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 2: keep our streets clear of carcasses and in general are 536 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 2: just great decomposers. There were a few in our neighborhood 537 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 2: not too just a week or so ago. They were 538 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: disrupting traffic. But you know, as we went by them, 539 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 2: we saluted them because they were doing the lord's work 540 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 2: out there. 541 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 4: They're worthy of our respect. Yes. 542 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, there's this idea that various New World vultures 543 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: are engaging in this kind of you know, possible eurohydrosis, 544 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 2: but maybe not for temperature control purposes. That you know, 545 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 2: they've been observed to do it when it's cold, they've 546 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: been serve to do it when it's warm, So what 547 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: could the purpose be? And there is this idea that 548 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 2: it is essentially kind of like when we reach for 549 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 2: a container of a hand sanitizer, except for the vulture, whose, 550 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: of course, you know, it's it's getting its talons into 551 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 2: various you know, grotesque feasts there on the side of 552 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: the road or in the wilderness and so forth. Occasionally 553 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 2: it makes sense to sanitize those legs with an eye, 554 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 2: perhaps with a nice you know, coloacal wash. And so 555 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 2: that is, that is the theory that there is an 556 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: antiseptic nature of vulture defecation, and that it, you know, 557 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: especially would be important for various scrapes and cuts on 558 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: those appendages. And so I was reading about this in 559 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 2: a twenty twenty two book, Vultures of the World, in 560 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 2: which the author Keith l Builds and points out that 561 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 2: at the time, at any rate, the antiseptic nature of 562 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 2: vulture defication had not been like tested to the full. 563 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 2: So it's still kind of an open question. But this 564 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 2: does seem to be a strong argument, again based in 565 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 2: large part of the fact that they do seem to 566 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 2: do it both in summer and winter, suggesting that disinfection 567 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 2: might be at least an important part of the equation 568 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 2: for like turkey vultures. Okay, now, an interesting fact about this. 569 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 2: I was not familiar with this, but the author here 570 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 2: points out that in in US and Canada at any rate, 571 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 2: vulture researchers are prohibited from using leg bands on turkey 572 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 2: vultures because there's a risk of uric acid building up 573 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 2: and cementing around the leg band because again they're pooping 574 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 2: and peeing down those legs. If you have a band 575 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 2: there for tracking purposes, it could you know, it gets 576 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 2: caught there, it drives there, it's cements there, and this 577 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 2: could effectively hobble the bird over time. Eventually it's like 578 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 2: too big of a weight for them to fly off with, apparently, 579 00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 2: or at least you know, it would get in the 580 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 2: way they're flying, in their ability to carry out their 581 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 2: daily activities. So fortunately there are other methods for tracking them, 582 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 2: things like wing tags and the like, but putting a 583 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: leg tag on them as a no no. Now, before 584 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 2: we get away from birds, I do want to point 585 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: out that in looking I'm always interested to see if 586 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: there's any kind of mythological or folklore tie in to 587 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 2: a particular topic, and I really wasn't expecting much here, 588 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 2: but I did find mention of this in connection to 589 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 2: Amazonian mythology via a book titled an Amazonian myth and 590 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 2: Its History by Peter Goal that came out in two 591 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 2: thousand and one. So the story involved here is referred 592 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 2: to as the Sun and it entails a character who 593 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 2: is at one point eviscerated, but in a nice way, 594 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 2: like in a like a polite mythic way, like he's 595 00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 2: asleep and the creatures that are working for him remove 596 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: his intestines. But at any rate, the story involves a 597 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 2: character who's eviscerated becomes gutless, and by becoming gutless, can 598 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 2: now eat and drink all he wants, but can also 599 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 2: never be satisfied. And this is a story that Giles 600 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 2: says is apparently connected to observations of the wood stork 601 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 2: who appeared gutless, because they are constantly excreting waste. You mentioned, 602 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 2: like how often per hour they are excreting in order 603 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 2: to cool those legs down, and it can lead to 604 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 2: this observation. It's like, well, this animal poops all the time, 605 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 2: and we don't do that. We you know, we know exactly, 606 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 2: we know more or less what's happening when we consume 607 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: food and it becomes nourishment and so forth. Perhaps the 608 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: stork is not giving it time at all, is just 609 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 2: going straight through, and therefore, you know, there's just these 610 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 2: kind of you know, ravenous but unsatisfied creatures. 611 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 3: Interesting, now, I didn't come across a poop count on 612 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 3: the wood stork. But in that one star, yeah there 613 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 3: was the white stork, and it was up to eleven 614 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 3: times per hour. 615 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 4: Wow, that's a lot. 616 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 2: So the myth, as recounted, apparently involves a man who 617 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 2: has enslaved the wood storks to do his bidding, but 618 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 2: then while he's asleep in the canoe, they remove his intestines, 619 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 2: and they intestines and they like hang them over the 620 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 2: side of the canoe, and when he wakes up, he's like, hey, 621 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 2: what's this stuff here? They apparently don't say anything, so 622 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 2: he throws it out and then the storks tell him 623 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 2: later they're like, oh, yeah, by the way, those we 624 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 2: are intestines. So as I understand that what we have 625 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 2: here is we have an observation of nature, an incorrect hypothesis, 626 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 2: or a very loose hypothesis that's maybe concerned more with 627 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 2: the mythic purposes of the tale as opposed to anything else. 628 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 2: And then this bleeds into an anatomical mythology that presents 629 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 2: something almost like a hungry ghost, you know, this idea 630 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 2: of a being that cannot be satisfied because his digestive 631 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 2: capabilities are just not intact, and that perhaps that's what 632 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 2: we see when we see these storks as well. 633 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 4: Interesting. 634 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I guess that does sort of tie into 635 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 3: the observation that the storks most likely to engage in 636 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 3: this are the ones that are going to be out 637 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 3: in the sun on dry land in the heat, but 638 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 3: also birds that have ready access to drinking water, and 639 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 3: that this would probably not be a good adaptation for 640 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 3: a bird species that had to, you know, that had 641 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 3: to conserve water resources maximally and did not have ready 642 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 3: access to water bodies. 643 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 644 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't have enough time to really dive into 645 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 2: this text, but it's out there if anyone else wants 646 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 2: to look into it again. The author is Peter gow 647 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 2: He lived nineteen fifty eight through twenty twenty one. He 648 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 2: was a social anthropologist who worked a lot in the Amazon. 649 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 3: Interesting story. Yeah, yeah, I also was. I did not 650 00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 3: think there would be a eurohydrosis related myth, But. 651 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 2: Here we are. Let's see other animals. Though, interestingly enough, 652 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: we also see this in some aquatic mammals. The main 653 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 2: example that I was reading about in a paper that 654 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 2: you sent to me, Joe, is the southern fur seal 655 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 2: or arctocephalus. Is this means bare head because we're talking 656 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 2: about Antarctic fur seals here. These are furry looking critters 657 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 2: adapted to thrive in very cold waters. However, as Roger L. 658 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 2: Gentry discusses in the nineteen seventy three paper Thermoregulatory Behavior 659 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 2: of eared Seals this is published in the journal Behavior, 660 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 2: they have other means of thermoregulation that become necessary when 661 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 2: these well insulated creatures are out of the water and 662 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 2: caring about on the shore, on the rocks in the sun. 663 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 3: Ah Okay, so this might be a different situation than 664 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 3: the storks living in like a really hot climate under 665 00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 3: the direct sun. I mean, I guess you could still 666 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 3: have the sun beating down on you. But the issue 667 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 3: here would be that the seals are very well adapted 668 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 3: to the cold, and so in cases where they're under 669 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 3: the sun and it's not very cold, their their heat 670 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 3: conserving adaptations are working against them, right. 671 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 2: And the situation where this becomes essential, especially for the males, 672 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 2: it has to do with their their breeding period because 673 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 2: they you know, they live a lot of their lives 674 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 2: in the water, but they have to they come on 675 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 2: to land, you know, during the breeding period, and it's 676 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 2: very important for a male to hold down his territory. 677 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 2: So there's a lot of fighting and squabbling for territory 678 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 2: and for females, and it's a It can be a 679 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 2: real endurance game for the males of you know, various 680 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 2: seal species species because they're having to constantly fight and 681 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 2: at the same time they have to maintain acceptable body temperatures, 682 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 2: they have to thermoregulate, and they're not in the water 683 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 2: at this point. The water is the author points out, 684 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 2: the ideal place for this creature to cool down. But 685 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 2: you're fighting a territory war, in a mating war up 686 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,720 Speaker 2: here on the rocks. So getting back in the water 687 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 2: is something you can do, but that is going to 688 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 2: be like your last resort because you're giving up territory 689 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 2: at that point, so you have to do other things. 690 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 2: So Gentry discusses how, especially during the high temperatures in 691 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 2: these environments, you'll see a few different behaviors. So on 692 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 2: one hand, they will seek out shade or shade cooled rocks, 693 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 2: which you know, kind of the same thing. But it's 694 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 2: essential to note that you know, rocks of course heat 695 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 2: up in the sun, so being in the shade is 696 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 2: one level of protection, but also being on rocks that 697 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 2: are either currently or have just previously been cooled by 698 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 2: the shade is also worth thinking about. And so according 699 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,280 Speaker 2: to Gentry, during higher temperatures, these seals have been observed 700 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 2: to stand on all fours and then annoy their flippers 701 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 2: and bellies with urine, with the back of flippers being 702 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 2: the key, because then they'll lay on one side and 703 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 2: extend their now wet rear flipper into the air and 704 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,439 Speaker 2: this will be the way they carry out carry out 705 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 2: some evaporative cooling. He also notes that the males seemingly 706 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,760 Speaker 2: drink more water in the surf during this time period 707 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,839 Speaker 2: in order to provide more urine for thermal regulation when 708 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 2: they're out on the shore. So, coming back to what 709 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 2: we were talking about with the with the storks, if 710 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,879 Speaker 2: you're going to engage in something like this, you've got 711 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 2: to keep you've got to keep the fluids flowing. 712 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 3: That is so interesting imagining like the sort of the 713 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 3: chain of preparations there I'm thinking about. So the mail 714 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 3: seals like tanking up with water to get ready for 715 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 3: one of these one of these like breeding season things 716 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 3: where he knows he's going to be out under the sun. 717 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 2: Now, this is also interesting to think about for me 718 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 2: because I did get to see Galapagos fur seals carrying 719 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 2: out carrying out their various activities on the beach when 720 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 2: I was down at the Galapagos Island, and I didn't 721 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 2: even know to look out for any kind of urination 722 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 2: going on. I don't think I saw any like actual 723 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 2: throwdowns between male seals, but I did get to see 724 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 2: like some of what they're up to. So, yeah, I 725 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,360 Speaker 2: wish I'd known to look out for this. 726 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 3: What does it look What does it look like? Some 727 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 3: we're just trying to like stake out good territory. 728 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll see like a big male and a bunch 729 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 2: of females and then you know, basically trying to hold 730 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 2: down the territory of this part of the beach with 731 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 2: these females. And then occasionally here's some other male seal 732 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,399 Speaker 2: coming that is going to contest this situation, and then 733 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 2: you know, there are various little squabbles about where the 734 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 2: females are getting to lay about as well, and then 735 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,760 Speaker 2: you know sometimes and then this is also inevitably happening 736 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 2: or a lot of the time it's happening on beaches 737 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 2: that where people are also hanging around, so they're also 738 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 2: human tourists, so there's a lot of and of course 739 00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 2: when the seals decide they want to go somewhere, it's 740 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:01,839 Speaker 2: like it's time for the humans to move. 741 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, don't mess with seals, folks. 742 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, but sometimes they could be a little like at 743 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 2: one point, I was just sitting there with my family 744 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,280 Speaker 2: and there was like a smaller, very loud, female seal 745 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 2: and she just decided she needed to set where I was, 746 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,399 Speaker 2: So of course I moved and then she sat there 747 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 2: for a little bit and kind of, you know, catterwalled 748 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 2: a bit, and then she moved on elsewhere. But it 749 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 2: was like, I don't know, it kind of felt like 750 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 2: she was being a little petty. But fair enough, this 751 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,720 Speaker 2: beach belongs to you. I'm just visiting. 752 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 4: Very magnanimous. 753 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 2: Yes, hey, just a quick post publication note. I want 754 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 2: to insert here everything that I was saying about the 755 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 2: fur seals is correct according to my research. But in 756 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 2: the heat of the moment, I mentioned the Galapagos and 757 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 2: I mistook my memory of Galapagos sea lions for Galapagos 758 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 2: fur seals, So sorry about that. My apologies, but I 759 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 2: did want to throw in this post publication correction here 760 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 2: for anyone who listens to the episode later. Yeah, I 761 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 2: didn't have anything about the Galapagos in my notes. It's 762 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 2: just as I was going through this part of the episode, 763 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 2: it stirred a memory, and as is sometimes the case 764 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 2: with memories that are recalled from the depths, sometimes it 765 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 2: comes up with a little bit of incorrect information applied there. So, 766 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 2: without further ado, let's get back into the episode. Now, 767 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 2: speaking of the Glapagos, this does bring me to the 768 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 2: next question that I had, because when I was in 769 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 2: the Glapagos, I did just a little bit of snorkeling 770 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,439 Speaker 2: in very cold waters, and I was wearing a dive 771 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 2: suit because it gets cold. And if you've ever gone 772 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 2: diving or done scuba diving or snorkeling and you've worn 773 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 2: a wet suit and the water's been cold, you might 774 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 2: have done what a lot of people have done what 775 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 2: I did as well, and that is urinate in the 776 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,160 Speaker 2: suit while you're in the water too warm. Things is 777 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 2: up a bit. This instantly came to my mind when 778 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 2: we started getting into this, because yeah, like this seems 779 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 2: like an example where humans can get in on the 780 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 2: euro hydrosis action, right, sort of in the opposite direction, 781 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 2: in the opposite direction, right, you know, can we just 782 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 2: pee in our dive suits in order to warm things up? 783 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 2: And you know, I was able to find a full 784 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,720 Speaker 2: article about this on dive SSI dot com. That's Scuba 785 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 2: School's International. 786 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 4: That's beautiful. Well what's the word? 787 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 2: All right? So yeah, I didn't know what the what 788 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 2: the full scoop on this was. And I'm not like 789 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 2: a big I'm not a scuba diver and I am 790 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 2: not a wetsuit person, so I didn't even know what 791 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,319 Speaker 2: the accepted wisdom was here. But the authors of this 792 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 2: article point out that, yeah, this is kind of like 793 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 2: common lore among divers and historically scuba divers that that 794 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 2: if you get in a little cold, will pee in 795 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,359 Speaker 2: your suit and then all warm things up a bit. 796 00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 2: And they point out that due to the mammalian dive response, 797 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 2: you might need, you might have a heightened need to 798 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 2: urinate in this environment, because a submerged mammal is going 799 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,280 Speaker 2: to experience a slowed heart rate during free diving, especially, 800 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 2: it's going to narrow blood vessels in the extremities, and 801 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 2: blood's going to shift to the core parts of the 802 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 2: body all in order to conserve oxygen and maintain blood 803 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 2: flow while holding one's breath, But more blood ends up 804 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,719 Speaker 2: going to the core and then via the kidneys. This 805 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 2: increases the urge to urinate. So you might find yourself 806 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,320 Speaker 2: in a situation where you're like, Wow, I just got 807 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,759 Speaker 2: into the water off the boat. It's cold, I need 808 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 2: a pee anyway, Why don't we warm things up a bit? 809 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 2: And so Yeah, they point out that this is a 810 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 2: common bit of diver's lore, and the article states quote 811 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 2: the wet suit itself works by trapping a thin layer 812 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:51,160 Speaker 2: of water between the neoprene that's a synthetic rubber and 813 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 2: the skin, which the body warms. This layer serves as insulation, 814 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 2: keeping the diver warm in cold water. When a diver 815 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,920 Speaker 2: urinates in their wet suit, the initial warm sensation comes 816 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 2: from the body warmed urine. However, this effect is fleeting. 817 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 3: Nothing gold can stay. 818 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 2: I mean in this we do kind of come back 819 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,359 Speaker 2: to the situation with the storks, right. I mean that 820 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,920 Speaker 2: too is fleeting is a cooling burst that will have 821 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 2: to be reapplied. I think the problem with divers is 822 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 2: that you probably don't have that many goes at it. Here, right, 823 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 2: you probably? I mean, how many times can will you 824 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,320 Speaker 2: urinate in your suit on a given dive or snorkel? 825 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 2: I could be wrong, but I have a feeling knowing 826 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 2: my body that truly it's just one, maybe two, but 827 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,800 Speaker 2: not enough to not not eleven times per hour. 828 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, and if I'm understanding the dynamics here correctly, it 829 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 3: even then, like it's still just a sensation of warming. 830 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 3: Your body is not actually getting warmer from this, like 831 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 3: you're losing warmth by peeing, but it's it feels warm 832 00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 3: on the outside. 833 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 2: Right, you're going to get that, and I can testify 834 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,880 Speaker 2: to this. Yeah, you get you get a warming sensation, 835 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 2: but it is fleeting, they point out, because the urine 836 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 2: quickly cools and things that will then actually feel colder 837 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 2: when this cooling occurs. You know, it's kind of like 838 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,240 Speaker 2: when you first get into the cold water to swim about. 839 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 2: It's like it can be shocking, takes your breath away, 840 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 2: but then you get used to it and you carry on. 841 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 2: When you pee your suit in order to warm up, 842 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,479 Speaker 2: you kind of like recreate something like that scenario again, 843 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 2: we're like, oh, now now it's cold again. Because and 844 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 2: part of this is the wet suit is not waterproof. 845 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 2: It's permeable, so outside cold water will directly cool the 846 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 2: layer of spreading warm urine in the suit. Now, all 847 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,000 Speaker 2: that being said, the article stresses that peeing in your 848 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 2: wet suit is a common practice and it's not harmful. 849 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,360 Speaker 2: You know, you may have some hygienic or some comfort 850 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 2: concerns about it, but basically all they really advise on 851 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 2: this is, look, if you do it, fine, but just 852 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 2: you want to make sure you wash out your suit afterwards. 853 00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 2: I mean, you're going to be washing your suit out, 854 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 2: but you know, if if you don't thoroughly wash it out, 855 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 2: you could get some uh some some some urine odors 856 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,839 Speaker 2: you know, in the material and so forth. But uh, 857 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,640 Speaker 2: and then again they stress that, yeah, you're gonna get 858 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,920 Speaker 2: a warm burst, but it's not going to be lasting. 859 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 2: It's not It's just just going to be a burst. 860 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:19,759 Speaker 3: You know, correct me if I'm wrong. But I bet 861 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 3: a lot of people don't own their own dive suits, 862 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,880 Speaker 3: do your kind? Is it a rental situation? 863 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,759 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I mean now that you mentioned it, like 864 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,680 Speaker 2: the dive suit I urinated in was definitely not mine, 865 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 2: in no shape was provided for me. And uh, yeah, 866 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:39,319 Speaker 2: I trust that they sprayed it out afterwards. I guess 867 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,120 Speaker 2: though it didn't seem gross when I put it on. 868 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,400 Speaker 2: So uh And I imagine a lot of people have 869 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:45,280 Speaker 2: peede in that suit. 870 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 4: Sound like everybody does it. I'm sure they wash them 871 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 4: real good. 872 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 2: I would love to hear from folks out there who've 873 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:55,080 Speaker 2: done like a lot of like scuba and snorkeling in 874 00:49:55,120 --> 00:50:00,200 Speaker 2: wet suits. And uh, you can add your own, you know, 875 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 2: two cents to this whole discussion. 876 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,880 Speaker 3: Well, Rob, this topic went places I did not expect, 877 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,800 Speaker 3: but I have found great delight in the twists and turns. 878 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. As is often the case, once you 879 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 2: really get into a topic, you don't know where it's 880 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:15,080 Speaker 2: going to take you. 881 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,840 Speaker 3: Hey, but if you're somebody who happens to see storks, vultures, condors, ganets, 882 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,600 Speaker 3: boobies in the wild and you catch them with like 883 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,920 Speaker 3: seeing this taking place, let us know, do you have 884 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,319 Speaker 3: any pictures what's going on? 885 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, we want natural world observations as well 886 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,800 Speaker 2: as reports on adventures and peeing yourself. 887 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,640 Speaker 4: Please no pictures of human just the. 888 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:43,120 Speaker 2: Birds, just the birds place or the scenes. Yeah all right, 889 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,040 Speaker 2: Well we're going to go and close out this episode. 890 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,200 Speaker 2: But we'll remind you that Stuff to Blow Your Mind 891 00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,760 Speaker 2: is primarily a science and culture podcast, with core episodes 892 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 2: on Tuesdays and Thursdays and on Fridays. We set aside 893 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,919 Speaker 2: most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film 894 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,719 Speaker 2: on Weird House Cinema, so you can always look out 895 00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 2: for those episodes. You can find us on Instagram. We 896 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,440 Speaker 2: are st b y M podcast There. 897 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,600 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 898 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,399 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 899 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,800 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 900 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,840 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 901 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,839 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to blow 902 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:24,040 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 903 00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 904 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,040 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 905 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:46,759 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.