WEBVTT - Ryan Holiday on Opening a Bookstore During a Pandemic 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.000 Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:18.079 I'm Tracy Alloway and I'm Joe. Isn't all so, Joe? 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:22.239 I feel like we're definitely still working through the economic 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:27.240 reverberations of the coronavirus crisis. Right, We've had this massive recovery, 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.840 but it still feels like there's further to go. Yeah, 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.400 I mean absolutely. I mean it seems like in many respects, 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:39.240 like some of the sort of business disruption supply chain issues, 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.519 it's not obvious that they're getting better. You know, we 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.120 talk a lot about shipping and logistics, and at least 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:48.360 by some measures, for example, that's actually still like as 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.760 worse as it's ever been today than at any point 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.480 in the crisis. Yeah, so we're still working through various 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.160 forms of gridlock in the supply chains, as we've been 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.800 talking about quite a lot on thoughts. But I feel 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:04.080 like there's also these sort of deep scars on the 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.840 business environment from the past year. Like it goes back 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.000 to that question. I guess we've discussed it on the 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:14.280 supply chain episodes, but what do businesses do about investment? 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:19.400 Are they confident enough to start reopening to really put 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.880 a bunch of money in expansion or is everyone going 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.320 to be nervous for a long time that you could 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.360 get a third wave or some sort of delta variants 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.399 something like that that could come in and um, I 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.160 guess surprise everyone again. Exactly right, you know, I think 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:38.240 like a lot of businesses were clearly designed for a 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:43.080 sort of like predictable, pre pandemic like patterns, right, and 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.479 some things like going back to normal, and it's like okay, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.600 like people are going out to eat again, and it 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.040 looks like people are starting to go to movie theaters again. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.320 Though I don't know if it's enough to justify mc 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.440 stock price, but people are going back to movie theaters 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.800 again and so forth. But obviously, like things are just different, 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.760 and so certain types of businesses are certain types of 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.640 behaviors are going to be different, and certain types of 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.640 businesses are going to be affected positively and some negatively. Yeah, 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.160 So on that that note of things being different. One 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.320 thing I wanted to do was talk to a specific business, 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.800 like a single small business, to try to get a 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.919 feel of what the past year was like and how 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.240 they're now looking at the future. And I thought, what 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.880 could be really interesting is to look at a business 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.240 that already has its challenges even without the pandemic. So 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.720 today we're going to be talking to a very very 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:42.000 famous author and someone who recently started their own brick 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.440 and mortar book store in Austin, Texas. And they actually 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:50.640 opened that store during the pandemic. And Joe, I know 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.160 you follow the Texas news very closely, but there were 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.680 also all sorts of weather related events that would have 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:02.440 made the past year even more painful for a new business. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:04.680 I mean I didn't think in the last few months, 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:10.720 Texas has had both a historic freeze and historic heat 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.720 all in a short period of time, stretching pretty you 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.040 know that added to grid strain. I mean we saw 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.600 like the crazy like freeze. I think we're back in March, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.600 so just one thing on top of another, Yeah, exactly. 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.320 So today we're gonna be digging into all those various 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.919 challenges from the perspective of an actual small business owner. 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.960 And I am very pleased to be introducing our guest 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.160 on this episode. It is the author, Ryan Holiday and 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.760 now the proprietor of The Painted Porch. So Ryan, thank 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.720 you so much for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.200 You're you're right, but it's difficult to have a business 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.760 during a pandemic. I think opening during the pandemic was 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:55.240 so much harder because you were completely flying blind, like 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.160 you had no you had no idea whether it would 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:00.360 work under ordinary circumstances. And then it was like, are 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.360 people ever going to be in the same room with 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.120 each other ever? Again? That that was like the level 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.960 of of like questioning your bedrock assumptions about reality that 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.760 we had to think about a lot over the last 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.400 fifteen months. So walk up through the timeline here then, 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.680 like when did you start thinking about opening a bookstore 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.719 and why? And at what point did you actually start 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.560 doing it and how did that clash with the pandemic. 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:29.919 It seems like an eternity ago, but I was in 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.920 the fall of twenty nineteen. I was We lived near 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.000 a small town called Basstrop, which is right outside Austin. 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.280 I was sitting in a restaurant with my wife in 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.000 this small main street and we looked out across the 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:44.720 street and there was an empty building that had been 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.000 closed forever and my wife said, you know, it would 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.560 be great there a bookstore. And I said, that sounds crazy, 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.440 But for some reason we ended up like getting excited 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.159 about the idea, and so I think we It officially 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:02.680 became our space in January, and we hired like our 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:08.839 first employee started the process in mid February of so, 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.200 right right before the wave crashed. So what is the 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.359 vision I mean? I'm actually I used to live in 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.920 Austin for a while. I've been to bass Drop and 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:19.800 I'm just sort of like imagining this sort of like 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.279 idyllic little bookstore and it sounds very cool and I 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.880 hope to visit it one day. But besides, like sort 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.440 of like looking at a spot and saying a bookstore 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.279 would be here, like what was sort of in your 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.599 mind like the business opportunity for So I have a 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.760 couple of advantages that your average sort of bookstore owner 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.120 would not have, which is, for the last ten years, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.640 actually more than that, I've had an email list where 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.599 every month I just recommend some of my favorite books. 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.320 And this started with like fifty friends and it's now, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.080 you know, a couple of hundred thousand people all over 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.560 the world that get this one email that I do 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.560 twelve times a year. So I've been recommending books for 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.719 a really long time, and I know books that people 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:04.080 like I've loved. I've loved supporting and recommending other authors 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.480 even before I ever wrote any of my own books. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.120 So I've kind of had a digital bookstore for a 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.599 long time, except almost everyone that recommends stuff online sends 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.760 those people to Amazon, and you take affiliate revenue, right, 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.120 And so I've I've sold hundreds of thousands of books, 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.200 hundreds of thousands of dollars with the books over this time, 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.400 but just you know, taking a minuscule commission. And so 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.039 part of it was thinking like, Okay, I've already done 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.600 this before. What would it be like if I actually 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.320 owned the books and sold the books? And what if 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.880 I sold my own books directly to consumers? What would 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.720 that be like? Then the other wrinkle, and this was 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.360 a great piece of advice I actually got from Alison Hill, 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.320 who is the owner of Romans and Book Soup in 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.480 Los Angeles and now she's the head of the a 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.480 b A, the American Book Association or the American Booksellers Association. 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.799 But she was saying that if you use this space, 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.480 multi purpose use of the space in bookstores is basically 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.400 the only way to survive. And so I actually needed 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:07.680 my My wife was tired of all my books, being 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:11.200 in the house, uh me being in writer mode around 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.720 the house, sort of dipping in and out of reality. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.800 And and so the idea was, I needed some office space. 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.320 I needed a place that I could do what I do, 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:23.200 even recording this episode right now. So I needed space 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.800 I wanted to do. The bookstore that came together in 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.520 this specific location in this town, you know, down the 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.800 street from from my house. So first of all, let 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.000 me just give a plug to Ryan's reading recommendations email, 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.040 because it is really good and probably responsible for like 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:44.000 a good chunk of my personal reading every year. But 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.560 just going back to this idea of like a physical 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.120 bookstore and a multi use space, so I get that 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.520 in your case, it's a little bit different. You're an author. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.120 You're looking for office space that you can use, um 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.600 for your own projects. But to what extent are most 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:02.240 bookstores nowadays multi use space? Like I certainly know in 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.720 New York, if you go into a bookstore, chances are 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.560 it's probably going to have like a coffee shop, um, 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:10.960 maybe like a little area where they're selling stationary and 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.280 greening cards and things like that. Everything seems to have 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.840 diversified and expanded to try to offset the giant that 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.320 is Amazon. Yeah, that's that's a huge part of the business. 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:27.640 H wine bars or coffee shops, stationary gifts, successories, that 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.520 that's all a part of the business. But that, to 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.199 me is still makes you very vulnerable to like in 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.000 person retail traffic. So I would say the real way 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:41.240 that most indie bookstores are diversified is that they also 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.440 sell online. Right, so having e commerce and in person 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.839 that's a big part of it. But still you're dependent on, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.760 you know, customers to sell books. So what I really 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.960 wanted was some some way that like we could have 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.760 a bad day, like nobody came in the store, which 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.720 does occasionally happen, and and I wouldn't have necessarily lost 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.920 any money, Like it didn't cost me anything because I 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.440 still needed the space to write. When I was thinking 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.199 about sort of risk mitigation of this crazy, very expensive 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.520 let's call it uh vanity project, that's the wrong way 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.520 to put it. I think this rather self indulgent business, 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.520 Like you're you're not opening a bookstore because you think 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.680 it's going to make you very wealthy. I was doing 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.480 because I genuinely love books. But I wanted a way 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.240 that like, hey, the mortgage or the rent or whatever 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:37.600 it is, is covered at least partly by things that 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.839 are not dependent on people coming in and buying hardcovers 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.120 or paperbacks today. So why do you walk us through 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.120 the timeline a little more? You mentioned that you had 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:53.000 the idea late obviously no one knew what was coming 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.680 a few months later. How quickly did you put it 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.120 into motion? What did they entail and what were the 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:03.400 first like steps to turn like raw space into a bookstore. Yeah, 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.560 in March of that's when we had just started the 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.920 building of the demo, the building of the shelves. All 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:14.720 that work started like right as the world was shutting down. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.760 I remember talking with some of the workers and going like, hey, guys, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.520 like this is gonna get real. I don't know where 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.360 this is going. And so you know, then it it 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.000 did escalate really quickly. We took I think we took 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.920 our our youngest out of daycare on like March eighth, 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:34.800 March nine, and sort of stayed at home, which is 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.920 a few days before things really started in Texas. But 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.400 I remember a few days later, you know, because no 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.680 one was in the space, I could safely drive there 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.480 and not be around anyone. But I remember just walking 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.920 through this net, this space that had previously been set 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.840 up to be a restaurant. That's what the space had been. Uh, 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.000 it's been open for a hundred and forty years, but 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.280 the last thing that was here was a Mexican restaurant. 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.360 I remember I walked through the space. It's now completely empty. 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.640 All the expensive kitchen stuff has been torn out, the 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.280 bar has been removed. It's like worse than when we 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.440 bought it. And I remember thinking, like that line from 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.800 Arrested Development, you know, I may have made a huge mistake. 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.040 Like I was just like, oh my god, did I 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.600 bet everything on like a thing that's not going to 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:42.560 exist anymore. So in March of when you're surveying the 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.800 space and it's a mess, are you what are you 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.640 thinking in terms of next steps? Do you just press 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.520 on with the plan or did you maybe scale back 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.720 some of the ambitions or have to delay some of 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.839 the work and refurbishing it. Yeah. The first thing we 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.400 did was basically cut the plan in half, so our 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:04.880 spaces is technically two addresses, although they're joined interior in 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.559 the interior through a through a door. The original idea 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.600 was like a bookstore on one side, coffee shop, meeting space, 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.199 events space for the bookstore. On the other side that 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:19.080 would be the bookstore would be like five thousand square feet. 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.160 The second this happened, it was like, well, we're definitely 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:26.079 not doing meetings anytime soon, definitely not having events, definitely 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.200 not having people sit for coffee, Like is that even 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.680 gonna be possible? So we cut it in half just then, 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:36.600 which was both terrifying and somewhat of relief because it 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.360 made the scope of the project so much smaller, Like, 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.000 of all the things we're thinking about doing that I'm 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.120 the least qualified and have the least experience about more 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.240 of the hospitality side of things was the furthest outside 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.720 my experience. So scaling it down to just like business 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:58.120 store that sells books and it may be that we're 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:02.280 primarily online for the foreseeable future was like that was 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.200 the first radical shrinking that we had to go through. Okay, 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.760 so pandemic hits total chaos. When did things start to 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.920 feel for you like, Okay, things are easing a little 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.680 bit that like the chaos of the first couple of months, 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.240 you know, you start to get your bearings a little bit, 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.280 get more, you know, some sense of normalcy, when did 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.760 things start to jel a little bit for you. We 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:27.920 did end up pressing ahead with the work, so it 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.240 was it was surreal to see like shells go up 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.920 and then the order of books came, but there was 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.319 no sense for us that it was remotely safe or 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.720 appropriate to open. So Texas, like in June late May 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.120 June was basically decided kind of like Florida, that the 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.600 pandemic didn't exist, that we had no obligations to our 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.440 fellow citizens, and then it was sort of every man, 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.760 woman and business for themselves. So you know, that was 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.680 supposedly a pro business decision, but it's actually really kind 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:05.680 of terrifying and overwhelming for especially for a first time business, 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.800 Like we don't have customers that we're serving right because 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.760 we've never opened our doors. But it's just like, are 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.040 we going to take what is literally a sealed off 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.560 bubble that is our lives and open it to hundreds 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.200 of people? And it is that the right thing to 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.680 do in a small town in the middle of a pandemic. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:27.160 So it became this thing, well, now we can proceed 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.680 with opening, but sort of ethically morally, and then also 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.800 just as far as keeping our own families safe. We've 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.000 got two young kids, can we should we and and 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.920 we just decided no, like so we didn't even start 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:45.840 thinking seriously that that we might open until like so 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.720 we had to eat a year of like expenses going 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.760 out but nothing coming in. So, just to be clear, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:59.680 Texas didn't provide guidance on whether businesses should stay open 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.360 or closed or what sort of things they should do 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.920 to try to protect their customers. Yeah, almost none, whatsoever. 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.240 I mean, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.280 there was like a mask mandate and some business closures 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.680 and like some some crazy lady. It turns out it 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:18.480 was like sort of not a stunt, but it was 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.560 sort of a political sort of operation some some lady 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.280 and I think Dallas kept her hair salon open in 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.400 violation of the policy, and then she was like arrested 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.560 or find and then the governor like pardoned her almost 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.680 like immediately. So it basically made it It basically reduced 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.720 masks and public safety and all the COVID regulations to 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.960 like meaningless theater, which made it so much harder to open. 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.080 Like it made it essentially impossible for us to open 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.640 a business for the safety of our own kids. But 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.560 then also just like in good conscience, right, like I'm 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.960 not indicting or or criticizing the other businesses. It's it's 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.800 totally different story if you have people who have worked 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.520 for you, who are you know, sort of dependent on 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.440 their jobs to whether your restaurant or whatever is open. 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.960 We didn't have that because the government had punted on 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.920 the problem. It now made it our problem, and and 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.760 we had to decide like can we look ourselves in 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.320 the mirror and be part of the problem. Yeah, I 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.920 remember like hearing this from other business owners that like, Okay, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.560 obviously there's some impulse like you want to people want 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.400 to open up, you want to sell, you want to 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.560 make money. On the other hand, you sort of like 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.280 create this Like I guess it's like game theory where 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.760 it's like if you let some if you let everyone open, 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.400 then you're put in this position where you're sort of 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.960 screwing yourself if you don't open, even if you don't 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.080 feel like you could do it safely or something like that. 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.320 Like it was a pretty like it was a pretty 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.760 weird time. It was. It was super weird. And and 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.360 you know now that we have the vaccines and we 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.080 sort of have. I don't even want to say we're 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.640 coming out of it, but now it's it's really difficult 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:58.640 to go back and remember what it was like in 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.640 June or like is it coming just around the corner? 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.280 You know? And I think, what what I do remember 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.800 of that time? In every step, like Texas sort of 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.320 made the wrong decision and it got worse. Right, So 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.280 it'd be like, hey, you know we're at ten thousand 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.280 cases a day, Well, you know, is that the peak? 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.760 And then it's like then twenty, then thirty, then four. 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.000 You know, it kept going higher and higher and higher, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:25.439 and so every time we thought like, okay, we're going 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.959 to turn a corner soon, it was just sort of 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.760 self inflicted, you know, like let's make it worse by 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:37.080 pretending this thing doesn't exist. M Did you get any 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.199 help or support from either the state or the federal 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.560 government that you know? I'm thinking about the paycheck Protection 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.240 Program for instance. I don't know if that applied to 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.720 you because you're relatively new, and maybe there were restrictions 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.520 on how long employees had to happen working for you, 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.600 but anything like that. Yeah, I remember I applied for 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.159 all that stuff at the beginning. You know, having just 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.640 spent all this money all this time and then not 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.119 knowing what it was gonna do. And I remember we 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.160 got I think like all businesses got like a thousand 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.919 You got like a thousand dollars for every employee, like 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:10.640 at the very beginning. So I think we got like 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.879 a thousand dollars or something. And then and then I 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.800 got approved for like a loan in the low six 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.120 figures that the p P people on the first go around, 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:25.160 and I remember just thinking like I don't actually need this, 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.560 and I don't feel good about taking it when other 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.159 businesses are really struggling and do need it. So we 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.320 ended up deciding not to take it. Was actually funny, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:39.720 like several times they replied like, hey, you know you're 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.520 approved except your loan here, And there was a large 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.720 amount of money, and it was tempting. I just felt 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:47.920 like I felt like, one it wasn't the right thing 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.879 to do too. I felt like because I have been successful, 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.200 I mean, it still wasn't something I could afford, but 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.720 I have been successful. I felt like the optics of 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.439 it weren't right to accept it. And I also just 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.320 didn't know where things were going. One thing I did 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.119 end up doing that. I think a lot of business 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.560 owners or people in Texas where property values have gone 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.879 way up. What I did do was I refinanced my 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:14.040 house at an extremely low interest rate that just sort 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.800 of relieved the pressure of like floating a business for 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.160 a year, if that makes sense. So so I felt 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.719 like I was benefiting from the government policy without having 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:29.199 to take a direct amount of money from the government. 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.480 And I felt better knowing that, you know, hey, that 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:33.720 that's going to someone who had actually needed And then 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.200 of course you find out like all sorts of huge 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.919 corporations and businesses did take it that really didn't need it. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.119 But you know, what are you gonna do? So, you know, 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.600 Tracy and I were talking about in the beginning, obviously, 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.159 I think like in the last few months, Texas has 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:53.840 had at least like two very extreme weather seeing both 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:56.160 extremes of the weather that really stressed the power grid. 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.280 There was the big freeze, and then of course there's 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.840 all these issues is that companies that small businesses are 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:07.119 facing both with logistics getting stuff and with hiring. So 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.320 let's take some of these things. Like, first of all, 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:13.080 you know what happened to you and uh, your I 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.560 guess your home but also your business during I get 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:17.960 the freeze. I think that was in March, right, Yeah, 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:19.960 it was out of the fire and into the furnace 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.240 for us, Like, what what happened was we ended up 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.399 opening the business right after the surge crests at the 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.080 you know, the beginning of the year, sort of partial 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.000 open mass, only only a few people at a time 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:36.240 and mostly selling on e commerce. And then this massive, 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:41.560 unexpected freeze happens that again the Texas government was totally 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:46.800 ill prepared for, had neglected maintenance and basic responsibility of 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:51.159 competent governance, and the result is the power grid collapses 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.720 in the midst of a you know, a terrible freeze. 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.280 It's a huge disaster. Because we don't end up we 0:20:57.280 --> 0:20:59.280 don't all live in the same reality. We don't see 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.159 it on par with like a Hurricane Katrina. But it 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.560 really was a disaster on that scale. I mean, hundreds 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.399 of people have died. State with with like thirty million 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.280 people is completely without power in many parts for for 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.360 days at a time. I remember going into my son's 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.680 room and sleeping in his bed with him because we 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.520 knew we would lose power during the night, and I 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.760 had heard of people freezing to death in their homes 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:30.040 like that. Just the level, like that's a thing you're 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:35.160 doing in the first world is insane, right, And long story, Sure, 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.639 what ended up happening is pipes at our at the 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:43.159 building froze because we couldn't keep the heat on. Also, 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.320 snow accumulated on the roof and the weight of it 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:48.960 cracked parts of the roof and water came rushing in 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:51.119 and ruined a bunch of inventory. So again to go 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.240 back to this idea that like, oh, the Republican response 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.200 or the Texas responses, pro business, we're not going to 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.800 let these lockdowns, you know, keep our businesses shut like 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.040 pro business is a philosophy which means supporting business and 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:09.200 making business possible. The incredible incompetence and negligence right down 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.760 to Ted Cruz fleeing the country for a resort in 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:16.960 Mexico like that cost businesses like mine tens of thousands 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.479 of dollars, to say nothing of having to be closed 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.800 and all that. And you know, let's not even get 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.520 into the sort of perpetual denial of climate change which 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:27.399 puts us in the mess to begin with. Right, So 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.600 it was extremely frustrating and just again, I could afford it, 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.919 but I can only imagine a business that was struggling 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.840