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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Alloway and I'm Joe. Isn't all so, Joe?

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Speaker 1: I feel like we're definitely still working through the economic

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Speaker 1: reverberations of the coronavirus crisis. Right, We've had this massive recovery,

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Speaker 1: but it still feels like there's further to go. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean absolutely. I mean it seems like in many respects,

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Speaker 1: like some of the sort of business disruption supply chain issues,

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Speaker 1: it's not obvious that they're getting better. You know, we

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Speaker 1: talk a lot about shipping and logistics, and at least

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Speaker 1: by some measures, for example, that's actually still like as

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Speaker 1: worse as it's ever been today than at any point

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Speaker 1: in the crisis. Yeah, so we're still working through various

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Speaker 1: forms of gridlock in the supply chains, as we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about quite a lot on thoughts. But I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's also these sort of deep scars on the

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Speaker 1: business environment from the past year. Like it goes back

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Speaker 1: to that question. I guess we've discussed it on the

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Speaker 1: supply chain episodes, but what do businesses do about investment?

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Speaker 1: Are they confident enough to start reopening to really put

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Speaker 1: a bunch of money in expansion or is everyone going

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Speaker 1: to be nervous for a long time that you could

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Speaker 1: get a third wave or some sort of delta variants

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Speaker 1: something like that that could come in and um, I

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Speaker 1: guess surprise everyone again. Exactly right, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: like a lot of businesses were clearly designed for a

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Speaker 1: sort of like predictable, pre pandemic like patterns, right, and

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Speaker 1: some things like going back to normal, and it's like okay,

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Speaker 1: like people are going out to eat again, and it

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Speaker 1: looks like people are starting to go to movie theaters again.

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Speaker 1: Though I don't know if it's enough to justify mc

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Speaker 1: stock price, but people are going back to movie theaters

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Speaker 1: again and so forth. But obviously, like things are just different,

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Speaker 1: and so certain types of businesses are certain types of

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Speaker 1: behaviors are going to be different, and certain types of

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Speaker 1: businesses are going to be affected positively and some negatively. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So on that that note of things being different. One

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Speaker 1: thing I wanted to do was talk to a specific business,

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Speaker 1: like a single small business, to try to get a

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Speaker 1: feel of what the past year was like and how

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Speaker 1: they're now looking at the future. And I thought, what

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Speaker 1: could be really interesting is to look at a business

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Speaker 1: that already has its challenges even without the pandemic. So

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Speaker 1: today we're going to be talking to a very very

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Speaker 1: famous author and someone who recently started their own brick

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Speaker 1: and mortar book store in Austin, Texas. And they actually

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Speaker 1: opened that store during the pandemic. And Joe, I know

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Speaker 1: you follow the Texas news very closely, but there were

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Speaker 1: also all sorts of weather related events that would have

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Speaker 1: made the past year even more painful for a new business. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I mean I didn't think in the last few months,

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Speaker 1: Texas has had both a historic freeze and historic heat

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Speaker 1: all in a short period of time, stretching pretty you

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Speaker 1: know that added to grid strain. I mean we saw

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Speaker 1: like the crazy like freeze. I think we're back in March,

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Speaker 1: so just one thing on top of another, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So today we're gonna be digging into all those various

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Speaker 1: challenges from the perspective of an actual small business owner.

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Speaker 1: And I am very pleased to be introducing our guest

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Speaker 1: on this episode. It is the author, Ryan Holiday and

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Speaker 1: now the proprietor of The Painted Porch. So Ryan, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: You're you're right, but it's difficult to have a business

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Speaker 1: during a pandemic. I think opening during the pandemic was

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Speaker 1: so much harder because you were completely flying blind, like

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Speaker 1: you had no you had no idea whether it would

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Speaker 1: work under ordinary circumstances. And then it was like, are

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Speaker 1: people ever going to be in the same room with

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Speaker 1: each other ever? Again? That that was like the level

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Speaker 1: of of like questioning your bedrock assumptions about reality that

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Speaker 1: we had to think about a lot over the last

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Speaker 1: fifteen months. So walk up through the timeline here then,

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Speaker 1: like when did you start thinking about opening a bookstore

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Speaker 1: and why? And at what point did you actually start

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Speaker 1: doing it and how did that clash with the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: It seems like an eternity ago, but I was in

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Speaker 1: the fall of twenty nineteen. I was We lived near

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Speaker 1: a small town called Basstrop, which is right outside Austin.

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Speaker 1: I was sitting in a restaurant with my wife in

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Speaker 1: this small main street and we looked out across the

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Speaker 1: street and there was an empty building that had been

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Speaker 1: closed forever and my wife said, you know, it would

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Speaker 1: be great there a bookstore. And I said, that sounds crazy,

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Speaker 1: But for some reason we ended up like getting excited

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Speaker 1: about the idea, and so I think we It officially

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Speaker 1: became our space in January, and we hired like our

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Speaker 1: first employee started the process in mid February of so,

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Speaker 1: right right before the wave crashed. So what is the

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Speaker 1: vision I mean? I'm actually I used to live in

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Speaker 1: Austin for a while. I've been to bass Drop and

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Speaker 1: I'm just sort of like imagining this sort of like

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Speaker 1: idyllic little bookstore and it sounds very cool and I

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Speaker 1: hope to visit it one day. But besides, like sort

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Speaker 1: of like looking at a spot and saying a bookstore

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Speaker 1: would be here, like what was sort of in your

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Speaker 1: mind like the business opportunity for So I have a

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Speaker 1: couple of advantages that your average sort of bookstore owner

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Speaker 1: would not have, which is, for the last ten years,

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Speaker 1: actually more than that, I've had an email list where

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Speaker 1: every month I just recommend some of my favorite books.

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Speaker 1: And this started with like fifty friends and it's now,

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple of hundred thousand people all over

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Speaker 1: the world that get this one email that I do

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Speaker 1: twelve times a year. So I've been recommending books for

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Speaker 1: a really long time, and I know books that people

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Speaker 1: like I've loved. I've loved supporting and recommending other authors

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Speaker 1: even before I ever wrote any of my own books.

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Speaker 1: So I've kind of had a digital bookstore for a

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Speaker 1: long time, except almost everyone that recommends stuff online sends

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Speaker 1: those people to Amazon, and you take affiliate revenue, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I've I've sold hundreds of thousands of books,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of dollars with the books over this time,

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Speaker 1: but just you know, taking a minuscule commission. And so

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Speaker 1: part of it was thinking like, Okay, I've already done

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Speaker 1: this before. What would it be like if I actually

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Speaker 1: owned the books and sold the books? And what if

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Speaker 1: I sold my own books directly to consumers? What would

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Speaker 1: that be like? Then the other wrinkle, and this was

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Speaker 1: a great piece of advice I actually got from Alison Hill,

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Speaker 1: who is the owner of Romans and Book Soup in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles and now she's the head of the a

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Speaker 1: b A, the American Book Association or the American Booksellers Association.

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Speaker 1: But she was saying that if you use this space,

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Speaker 1: multi purpose use of the space in bookstores is basically

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Speaker 1: the only way to survive. And so I actually needed

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Speaker 1: my My wife was tired of all my books, being

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Speaker 1: in the house, uh me being in writer mode around

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Speaker 1: the house, sort of dipping in and out of reality.

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Speaker 1: And and so the idea was, I needed some office space.

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Speaker 1: I needed a place that I could do what I do,

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Speaker 1: even recording this episode right now. So I needed space

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do. The bookstore that came together in

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Speaker 1: this specific location in this town, you know, down the

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Speaker 1: street from from my house. So first of all, let

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Speaker 1: me just give a plug to Ryan's reading recommendations email,

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Speaker 1: because it is really good and probably responsible for like

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Speaker 1: a good chunk of my personal reading every year. But

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Speaker 1: just going back to this idea of like a physical

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Speaker 1: bookstore and a multi use space, so I get that

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Speaker 1: in your case, it's a little bit different. You're an author.

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Speaker 1: You're looking for office space that you can use, um

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Speaker 1: for your own projects. But to what extent are most

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Speaker 1: bookstores nowadays multi use space? Like I certainly know in

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Speaker 1: New York, if you go into a bookstore, chances are

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Speaker 1: it's probably going to have like a coffee shop, um,

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Speaker 1: maybe like a little area where they're selling stationary and

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Speaker 1: greening cards and things like that. Everything seems to have

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Speaker 1: diversified and expanded to try to offset the giant that

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Speaker 1: is Amazon. Yeah, that's that's a huge part of the business.

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Speaker 1: H wine bars or coffee shops, stationary gifts, successories, that

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Speaker 1: that's all a part of the business. But that, to

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Speaker 1: me is still makes you very vulnerable to like in

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Speaker 1: person retail traffic. So I would say the real way

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Speaker 1: that most indie bookstores are diversified is that they also

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Speaker 1: sell online. Right, so having e commerce and in person

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Speaker 1: that's a big part of it. But still you're dependent on,

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Speaker 1: you know, customers to sell books. So what I really

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Speaker 1: wanted was some some way that like we could have

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Speaker 1: a bad day, like nobody came in the store, which

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Speaker 1: does occasionally happen, and and I wouldn't have necessarily lost

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Speaker 1: any money, Like it didn't cost me anything because I

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Speaker 1: still needed the space to write. When I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about sort of risk mitigation of this crazy, very expensive

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Speaker 1: let's call it uh vanity project, that's the wrong way

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Speaker 1: to put it. I think this rather self indulgent business,

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Speaker 1: Like you're you're not opening a bookstore because you think

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Speaker 1: it's going to make you very wealthy. I was doing

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Speaker 1: because I genuinely love books. But I wanted a way

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Speaker 1: that like, hey, the mortgage or the rent or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is, is covered at least partly by things that

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Speaker 1: are not dependent on people coming in and buying hardcovers

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Speaker 1: or paperbacks today. So why do you walk us through

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Speaker 1: the timeline a little more? You mentioned that you had

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Speaker 1: the idea late obviously no one knew what was coming

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Speaker 1: a few months later. How quickly did you put it

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Speaker 1: into motion? What did they entail and what were the

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Speaker 1: first like steps to turn like raw space into a bookstore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in March of that's when we had just started the

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Speaker 1: building of the demo, the building of the shelves. All

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Speaker 1: that work started like right as the world was shutting down.

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Speaker 1: I remember talking with some of the workers and going like, hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: like this is gonna get real. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: this is going. And so you know, then it it

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Speaker 1: did escalate really quickly. We took I think we took

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Speaker 1: our our youngest out of daycare on like March eighth,

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Speaker 1: March nine, and sort of stayed at home, which is

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Speaker 1: a few days before things really started in Texas. But

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Speaker 1: I remember a few days later, you know, because no

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Speaker 1: one was in the space, I could safely drive there

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Speaker 1: and not be around anyone. But I remember just walking

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Speaker 1: through this net, this space that had previously been set

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Speaker 1: up to be a restaurant. That's what the space had been. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's been open for a hundred and forty years, but

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Speaker 1: the last thing that was here was a Mexican restaurant.

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Speaker 1: I remember I walked through the space. It's now completely empty.

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Speaker 1: All the expensive kitchen stuff has been torn out, the

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Speaker 1: bar has been removed. It's like worse than when we

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Speaker 1: bought it. And I remember thinking, like that line from

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Speaker 1: Arrested Development, you know, I may have made a huge mistake.

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Speaker 1: Like I was just like, oh my god, did I

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Speaker 1: bet everything on like a thing that's not going to

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Speaker 1: exist anymore. So in March of when you're surveying the

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Speaker 1: space and it's a mess, are you what are you

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Speaker 1: thinking in terms of next steps? Do you just press

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Speaker 1: on with the plan or did you maybe scale back

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Speaker 1: some of the ambitions or have to delay some of

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Speaker 1: the work and refurbishing it. Yeah. The first thing we

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Speaker 1: did was basically cut the plan in half, so our

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Speaker 1: spaces is technically two addresses, although they're joined interior in

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Speaker 1: the interior through a through a door. The original idea

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Speaker 1: was like a bookstore on one side, coffee shop, meeting space,

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Speaker 1: events space for the bookstore. On the other side that

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Speaker 1: would be the bookstore would be like five thousand square feet.

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Speaker 1: The second this happened, it was like, well, we're definitely

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Speaker 1: not doing meetings anytime soon, definitely not having events, definitely

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Speaker 1: not having people sit for coffee, Like is that even

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Speaker 1: gonna be possible? So we cut it in half just then,

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Speaker 1: which was both terrifying and somewhat of relief because it

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Speaker 1: made the scope of the project so much smaller, Like,

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Speaker 1: of all the things we're thinking about doing that I'm

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Speaker 1: the least qualified and have the least experience about more

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Speaker 1: of the hospitality side of things was the furthest outside

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Speaker 1: my experience. So scaling it down to just like business

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Speaker 1: store that sells books and it may be that we're

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Speaker 1: primarily online for the foreseeable future was like that was

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Speaker 1: the first radical shrinking that we had to go through. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so pandemic hits total chaos. When did things start to

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Speaker 1: feel for you like, Okay, things are easing a little

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Speaker 1: bit that like the chaos of the first couple of months,

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Speaker 1: you know, you start to get your bearings a little bit,

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Speaker 1: get more, you know, some sense of normalcy, when did

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Speaker 1: things start to jel a little bit for you. We

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Speaker 1: did end up pressing ahead with the work, so it

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Speaker 1: was it was surreal to see like shells go up

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Speaker 1: and then the order of books came, but there was

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Speaker 1: no sense for us that it was remotely safe or

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Speaker 1: appropriate to open. So Texas, like in June late May

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Speaker 1: June was basically decided kind of like Florida, that the

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Speaker 1: pandemic didn't exist, that we had no obligations to our

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Speaker 1: fellow citizens, and then it was sort of every man,

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Speaker 1: woman and business for themselves. So you know, that was

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Speaker 1: supposedly a pro business decision, but it's actually really kind

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Speaker 1: of terrifying and overwhelming for especially for a first time business,

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Speaker 1: Like we don't have customers that we're serving right because

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Speaker 1: we've never opened our doors. But it's just like, are

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Speaker 1: we going to take what is literally a sealed off

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Speaker 1: bubble that is our lives and open it to hundreds

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Speaker 1: of people? And it is that the right thing to

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Speaker 1: do in a small town in the middle of a pandemic.

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Speaker 1: So it became this thing, well, now we can proceed

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Speaker 1: with opening, but sort of ethically morally, and then also

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Speaker 1: just as far as keeping our own families safe. We've

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Speaker 1: got two young kids, can we should we and and

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Speaker 1: we just decided no, like so we didn't even start

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Speaker 1: thinking seriously that that we might open until like so

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Speaker 1: we had to eat a year of like expenses going

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Speaker 1: out but nothing coming in. So, just to be clear,

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Speaker 1: Texas didn't provide guidance on whether businesses should stay open

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Speaker 1: or closed or what sort of things they should do

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Speaker 1: to try to protect their customers. Yeah, almost none, whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: there was like a mask mandate and some business closures

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Speaker 1: and like some some crazy lady. It turns out it

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Speaker 1: was like sort of not a stunt, but it was

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Speaker 1: sort of a political sort of operation some some lady

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Speaker 1: and I think Dallas kept her hair salon open in

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Speaker 1: violation of the policy, and then she was like arrested

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Speaker 1: or find and then the governor like pardoned her almost

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Speaker 1: like immediately. So it basically made it It basically reduced

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Speaker 1: masks and public safety and all the COVID regulations to

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Speaker 1: like meaningless theater, which made it so much harder to open.

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Speaker 1: Like it made it essentially impossible for us to open

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Speaker 1: a business for the safety of our own kids. But

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Speaker 1: then also just like in good conscience, right, like I'm

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Speaker 1: not indicting or or criticizing the other businesses. It's it's

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Speaker 1: totally different story if you have people who have worked

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Speaker 1: for you, who are you know, sort of dependent on

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Speaker 1: their jobs to whether your restaurant or whatever is open.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have that because the government had punted on

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Speaker 1: the problem. It now made it our problem, and and

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Speaker 1: we had to decide like can we look ourselves in

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Speaker 1: the mirror and be part of the problem. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: remember like hearing this from other business owners that like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: obviously there's some impulse like you want to people want

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Speaker 1: to open up, you want to sell, you want to

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Speaker 1: make money. On the other hand, you sort of like

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Speaker 1: create this Like I guess it's like game theory where

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Speaker 1: it's like if you let some if you let everyone open,

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Speaker 1: then you're put in this position where you're sort of

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Speaker 1: screwing yourself if you don't open, even if you don't

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Speaker 1: feel like you could do it safely or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Like it was a pretty like it was a pretty

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Speaker 1: weird time. It was. It was super weird. And and

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Speaker 1: you know now that we have the vaccines and we

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Speaker 1: sort of have. I don't even want to say we're

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Speaker 1: coming out of it, but now it's it's really difficult

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Speaker 1: to go back and remember what it was like in

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Speaker 1: June or like is it coming just around the corner?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I think, what what I do remember

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Speaker 1: of that time? In every step, like Texas sort of

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Speaker 1: made the wrong decision and it got worse. Right, So

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Speaker 1: it'd be like, hey, you know we're at ten thousand

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Speaker 1: cases a day, Well, you know, is that the peak?

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Speaker 1: And then it's like then twenty, then thirty, then four.

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Speaker 1: You know, it kept going higher and higher and higher,

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Speaker 1: and so every time we thought like, okay, we're going

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Speaker 1: to turn a corner soon, it was just sort of

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Speaker 1: self inflicted, you know, like let's make it worse by

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Speaker 1: pretending this thing doesn't exist. M Did you get any

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Speaker 1: help or support from either the state or the federal

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Speaker 1: government that you know? I'm thinking about the paycheck Protection

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Speaker 1: Program for instance. I don't know if that applied to

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Speaker 1: you because you're relatively new, and maybe there were restrictions

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Speaker 1: on how long employees had to happen working for you,

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Speaker 1: but anything like that. Yeah, I remember I applied for

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Speaker 1: all that stuff at the beginning. You know, having just

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Speaker 1: spent all this money all this time and then not

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Speaker 1: knowing what it was gonna do. And I remember we

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Speaker 1: got I think like all businesses got like a thousand

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Speaker 1: You got like a thousand dollars for every employee, like

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Speaker 1: at the very beginning. So I think we got like

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Speaker 1: a thousand dollars or something. And then and then I

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Speaker 1: got approved for like a loan in the low six

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Speaker 1: figures that the p P people on the first go around,

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Speaker 1: and I remember just thinking like I don't actually need this,

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Speaker 1: and I don't feel good about taking it when other

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Speaker 1: businesses are really struggling and do need it. So we

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Speaker 1: ended up deciding not to take it. Was actually funny,

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Speaker 1: like several times they replied like, hey, you know you're

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Speaker 1: approved except your loan here, And there was a large

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Speaker 1: amount of money, and it was tempting. I just felt

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Speaker 1: like I felt like, one it wasn't the right thing

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Speaker 1: to do too. I felt like because I have been successful,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it still wasn't something I could afford, but

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Speaker 1: I have been successful. I felt like the optics of

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00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,439
Speaker 1: it weren't right to accept it. And I also just

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Speaker 1: didn't know where things were going. One thing I did

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Speaker 1: end up doing that. I think a lot of business

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Speaker 1: owners or people in Texas where property values have gone

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Speaker 1: way up. What I did do was I refinanced my

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Speaker 1: house at an extremely low interest rate that just sort

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Speaker 1: of relieved the pressure of like floating a business for

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Speaker 1: a year, if that makes sense. So so I felt

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Speaker 1: like I was benefiting from the government policy without having

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Speaker 1: to take a direct amount of money from the government.

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Speaker 1: And I felt better knowing that, you know, hey, that

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Speaker 1: that's going to someone who had actually needed And then

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Speaker 1: of course you find out like all sorts of huge

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Speaker 1: corporations and businesses did take it that really didn't need it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, what are you gonna do? So, you know,

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Speaker 1: Tracy and I were talking about in the beginning, obviously,

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Speaker 1: I think like in the last few months, Texas has

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Speaker 1: had at least like two very extreme weather seeing both

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Speaker 1: extremes of the weather that really stressed the power grid.

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Speaker 1: There was the big freeze, and then of course there's

355
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Speaker 1: all these issues is that companies that small businesses are

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Speaker 1: facing both with logistics getting stuff and with hiring. So

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Speaker 1: let's take some of these things. Like, first of all,

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Speaker 1: you know what happened to you and uh, your I

359
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Speaker 1: guess your home but also your business during I get

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Speaker 1: the freeze. I think that was in March, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was out of the fire and into the furnace

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Speaker 1: for us, Like, what what happened was we ended up

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Speaker 1: opening the business right after the surge crests at the

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00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: you know, the beginning of the year, sort of partial

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Speaker 1: open mass, only only a few people at a time

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Speaker 1: and mostly selling on e commerce. And then this massive,

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Speaker 1: unexpected freeze happens that again the Texas government was totally

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Speaker 1: ill prepared for, had neglected maintenance and basic responsibility of

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Speaker 1: competent governance, and the result is the power grid collapses

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Speaker 1: in the midst of a you know, a terrible freeze.

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Speaker 1: It's a huge disaster. Because we don't end up we

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Speaker 1: don't all live in the same reality. We don't see

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Speaker 1: it on par with like a Hurricane Katrina. But it

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Speaker 1: really was a disaster on that scale. I mean, hundreds

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Speaker 1: of people have died. State with with like thirty million

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Speaker 1: people is completely without power in many parts for for

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Speaker 1: days at a time. I remember going into my son's

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Speaker 1: room and sleeping in his bed with him because we

379
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Speaker 1: knew we would lose power during the night, and I

380
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Speaker 1: had heard of people freezing to death in their homes

381
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Speaker 1: like that. Just the level, like that's a thing you're

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Speaker 1: doing in the first world is insane, right, And long story, Sure,

383
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: what ended up happening is pipes at our at the

384
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 1: building froze because we couldn't keep the heat on. Also,

385
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Speaker 1: snow accumulated on the roof and the weight of it

386
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: cracked parts of the roof and water came rushing in

387
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Speaker 1: and ruined a bunch of inventory. So again to go

388
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Speaker 1: back to this idea that like, oh, the Republican response

389
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Speaker 1: or the Texas responses, pro business, we're not going to

390
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: let these lockdowns, you know, keep our businesses shut like

391
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: pro business is a philosophy which means supporting business and

392
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: making business possible. The incredible incompetence and negligence right down

393
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Speaker 1: to Ted Cruz fleeing the country for a resort in

394
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: Mexico like that cost businesses like mine tens of thousands

395
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,479
Speaker 1: of dollars, to say nothing of having to be closed

396
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: and all that. And you know, let's not even get

397
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Speaker 1: into the sort of perpetual denial of climate change which

398
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: puts us in the mess to begin with. Right, So

399
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: it was extremely frustrating and just again, I could afford it,

400
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 1: but I can only imagine a business that was struggling

401
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: to hang on that being the blow that finishes you off.

402
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: Did you ever stop and think maybe it's not worth it?

403
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean, the beauty of the sun cost fallacy is

404
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: that it blinds us and we keep going because of

405
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: all of what we've already done. Supplies so like, okay,

406
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 1: you're like the snow like it cracks the roof of

407
00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: your building, the pipes freeze, so obviously that creates things

408
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 1: you have to buy or thinks someone has to buy. Anyway,

409
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: you mentioned inventory damage and so forth. We also know

410
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: that coming into this people are already talking about difficulty

411
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: finding labor after imagine, it's not trivial funding construction labor

412
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Speaker 1: or repair labor in Texas in the middle of a boom.

413
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Speaker 1: On top of that, how did these things intersect to

414
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Speaker 1: the extent that they did, where like sort of like

415
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 1: getting back on your feet, intersecting with some of the

416
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Speaker 1: broad shortages and tensions that were building up even prior

417
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Speaker 1: to this. I mean, I'll give you something even more

418
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Speaker 1: practical than that. Publishers have had trouble keeping books and stock.

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Speaker 1: My own books have gone out of stock, like three

420
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: or four different times, different titles have You know, publishers

421
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: tried to over the years get closer and closer to

422
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: sort of real time inventory management to keep as little

423
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: in stock as possible. Amazon the same thing. You want

424
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: to have as little inventory sitting in warehouses, but you

425
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: want to speed up your ability to get books to

426
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: people who need them. And so when the pandemic happens,

427
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: that's bad because publishers are you know, printers are struggling.

428
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: It's hard to get supplies. Everyone's dealing with you know,

429
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: sort of new COVID safety protocols, and that makes it

430
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: harder to do what you normally do. But then also

431
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: this bumps into a good thing, which is suddenly people

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Speaker 1: are home and reading more and they're buying them, you know,

433
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: mostly online, but they're they're reading more. So book sales

434
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: have gone up during the pandemic, but the ability to

435
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: stay in stock has been a perpetual struggle. So, like

436
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: even even right now, I sent out my reading list

437
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: email yesterday and I had to decide what books I

438
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: could recommend based on what books I could actually get

439
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 1: my hands on in high enough quantities to sell them

440
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,959
Speaker 1: to people. And these are you know, publishers are publishers

441
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: and booksellers primarily make their money off what we call

442
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: the backlist. Yes, new titles, celebrity books, memoirs, et cetera sell,

443
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: but it's you know, it's books that are five years old,

444
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: or ten years older or a hundred years old that sell.

445
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: But though those are the most dependent on that sort

446
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: of inventory management. So it's been a real struggle just

447
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: getting books in people's hands because stuff that people want

448
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: isn't in stock. What do you think is needed to

449
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: rectify that situation? Is it just things sort of going

450
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: back to normal maybe people this sounds weird to say,

451
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: but people reading less as they go back to work

452
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: and start going out to bars and restaurants. Or is

453
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: it publishers and printing presses responding to the new demand

454
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: and actually ramping up production. Well, I hope the solution

455
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: is not people reading less as as just a member

456
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: of society. I think part of why we're in this

457
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: message people not reading enough. Like one book we've sold

458
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: a ton of copies of is is John M. Berry's

459
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: The Great Influenza, which was published in I think oh

460
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: four oh five. Actually George Bush reads it and puts

461
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: in place a pandemic response team that, as we know,

462
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: is later disbanded, and that gets us where we are.

463
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: But books are timeless, and good ideas are timeless, and

464
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: and it's by studying the past that we can prepare

465
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: for the future avoid unnecessary repetitions of the past. Um

466
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: So I think we need to read more. But I

467
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: do think publishers are having to figure out how do

468
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: you minimize costs but also not make yourself dependent on

469
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: this sort of byzantine supply line that really struggles. Like,

470
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: so one of the things I've made, I made these

471
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: sort of brass coins, these challenge coins that are emblazing

472
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: with some of the ideas in my books. Right, we

473
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: could have made them cheaper in China over the years,

474
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: and that would have helped us be profitable up until

475
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: but the fact that we use this small uh you know,

476
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: mint that's based in Minneapolis allowed us to never go

477
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: out of stock during the pandemic. So some publishers print overseas,

478
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: but most printing is done in the US, which I

479
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: think is why although there's been trouble, it hasn't been

480
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 1: a complete disaster. Businesses are having to figure you're out, Hey,

481
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: you get stuff cheaper in China or Bangladesh or wherever

482
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: you make it, but that makes you vulnerable to very

483
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: long supply lines, and the closer that stuff is to home,

484
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: the faster can be done. It's more expensive, but it's

485
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: also more resilient. Let's talk about that a little bit more.

486
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: The actual physical publishing, because every once in a while,

487
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: like me and Tracy, like we'll talk to someone about

488
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: writing a book, like maybe an Oblots book or something

489
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: like that, and they're like, oh, if you start it now,

490
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: you know it'll come out seven or something. It's like,

491
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: that's all right, I'd rather just like write write a

492
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: tweet and have it be up two seconds from now.

493
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: But you know, but in all seriousness, like it does

494
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: seem as though my understanding, like actual physical capacity of

495
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: production is an issue and there's only like so much production,

496
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: so how much publishing capacity is there just in a

497
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: normal state, and then like what really like happened to

498
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: it and how strained is that is that? Now, like

499
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: walk us through a sort of like publishing supply chain

500
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: a little bit more. Yeah, I'm not an expert on

501
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: it by any means, but I'll give you an example.

502
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,479
Speaker 1: This was happening before the pandemic. The success of the

503
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 1: Obama books, particularly Michelle Obama's books, were so pronounced and

504
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: so enormous that like printers in the US, we're running

505
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: out of paper right, so so um it can be

506
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, a massive hit book, you know, can suddenly

507
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: suck up all the printing supply and publishers have to

508
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: make decisions. And this there is our arguments I was

509
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 1: having with my publisher of course, is like you know,

510
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: well who gets you know, if there's however many pages available,

511
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: how are you allocating them right? And who gets those pages?

512
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: And so that can be a real battle, and that

513
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, the customers don't understand is is influencing what

514
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: they can see and what they can order. But what

515
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: you're really dreading is like somebody decides they want to

516
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: read a book and then they go on your website

517
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: or they go on Amazon, where they go to a

518
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: store and it's not available, and you can't tell them

519
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: when they're going to be able to get it. And

520
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: so that's the perpetual difficulty. What's been interesting about my

521
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: books is my I think my oldest book is ten

522
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: years old, but all of my books remain in print

523
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: and sell sort of consistently. It's what they call a

524
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: perennial seller and publishing. That's a good problem to have,

525
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: but it's also you know, I've i think twelve titles,

526
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: so that's a lot of books to keep in print, right,

527
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: and that can be a hard target, and hard choices

528
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: get made, and suddenly you know your book is the

529
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: one that they pushed the printing back, you know, six weeks,

530
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: but at yourself through rate, that means they're going to

531
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: run out two weeks from now and for a month,

532
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: people that want to buy your book can't buy it.

533
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: And you know what happens if that's the week that

534
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: you know, you get interviewed on NPR and suddenly I'm

535
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: only saying that because we're not actually talking about my

536
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: books here, but I just mean, like, you know, maybe

537
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: that's the week that some celebrity mentions your book on

538
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: Instagram and all that demand disappears in the wind because

539
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: they can't purchase it when they want it. A lot

540
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: of this reminds me of in some of our shipping episodes,

541
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: we've been talking about how you actually get space on

542
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: a container ship, and it usually goes to the big customers,

543
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: like a Walmart or an Ikea. If you know, if

544
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: you're the shipping company and you have to make a

545
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,959
Speaker 1: choice about who gets limited space on your ship, you're

546
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: going to give it to people that you know are

547
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: going to come back again and again and be worthwhile customers.

548
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 1: So I guess I'm curious when it comes to authors, like,

549
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: how are publishers making that judgment call? Is it just

550
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: based on on who they think can sell the most books? Yeah,

551
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: I think it's it's primarily based on demand and need

552
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: and velocity. The good news is most books from the

553
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: big publishers are printed in the US. But actually, during

554
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: the pandemic, I had bought back the rights and was

555
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: working on a leather bound edition of one of my books,

556
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: The Daily Stoic, and the only place we could get

557
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: it printed was in Belarus. So it got printed in

558
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: Belarus in I think late May, but we weren't able

559
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: to sell it to August. That's how long it took

560
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: to get from Belarus to the United States. I remember

561
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: how just watched it was a crash course in global

562
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: logistics to watch, you know, a book leave on a

563
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: boat from Belarus, make it to New Orleans, travel up

564
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: the Mississippi and a container ship until it got to

565
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: our warehouse in Chicago, and watching that happen, watching it unfold,

566
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,959
Speaker 1: and then exactly what you said. I mean, as you

567
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: pick your shipping rates, it's like, you know, here's what

568
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: it costs to be in the container, but here's what

569
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: it costs to be the first unloaded from the container, right,

570
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: And oh, I didn't realize that was a thing that

571
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: that was like part of the plot. And and you know,

572
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: here's what it costs to put it on a on

573
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: a on a plane. You know, maybe that's three or

574
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: four dollars a copy, which is you know, obviously destroys

575
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: the margin. So there's there's all these things that you

576
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: doing my own books, having self published a few sort

577
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: of premium editions of my task, it did give me

578
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: so empathy for the struggles that my publisher was going through.

579
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: Although you know, I remember having one conversation that was

580
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: sort of like, look, uh, the reason I sold my

581
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: book to you was so this would be your problem

582
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: and I would get I would get the benefit of

583
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: being a protected by the big guy, you know, the

584
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: multi billion dollar corporation. But I think one of the

585
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: things I learned about the pandemic was like it really

586
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: put everybody in the same boat, didn't matter how big

587
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: you were. How did you end up if you had

588
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: this vision for like a really premium leather bound version

589
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: of the book, how does that process work? Like finding

590
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: the one printing pressent Belarus that can like deliver deliver

591
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: the version you need. Yeah, it was pretty funny. Um

592
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: My my agent had been a long time publisher before

593
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: he was an agent, and he he recommended me to

594
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: someone that they had used before. It was like a

595
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: Bible printer in the United States. They're actually based in Dallas,

596
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: but they print at a factory that they own in Belarus.

597
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: So you know, we went through a bunch of different people.

598
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: They gave a samples. But one of the reasons my

599
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: publisher didn't want to do the premium edition and why

600
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: they sold the rights to me is that it felt

601
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: like to them to be more trouble than it's worth.

602
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: It actually ended up being a great idea and and

603
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: readers have really loved it because because the day was

604
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: still because the book you read a page a day

605
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: every year, and you start over it, you know, after

606
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: you make it through all three five days, so it

607
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: kind of needs to be a sturdier book than your

608
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: average hardcover. So it was it was a cool project,

609
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: but yeah, you just realized, like, oh man, now I'm

610
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: having to you know, different qualities of leather. What do

611
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: I want? And how do I get in a box?

612
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: And you know, how do I ship it some to

613
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: the arehouse in the UK and some to the warehouse

614
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: in Chicago? And what am I willing to pay? And yeah,

615
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: how fast do I want it loaded off the containership?

616
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: And you know how what is the capacity of the port?

617
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 1: You know, during the pandemic and then god forbid people

618
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: whose stuff was going through the Suez Canal and there's

619
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: a boat stuck sideways. Like all of a sudden, these

620
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: things that you read about in the news become like

621
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: your problem when you're you're when you're the publisher, or

622
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: when you're when you own the bookstore. One thing we

623
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: haven't spoken very much about is uh, I guess employment

624
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: and whether or not it was difficult to find enough

625
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: people or the right people over the past year. I

626
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: imagine some people you know, much like you, were perhaps

627
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: reluctant to open in the midst of the worst of

628
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Employees were probably reluctant to come into work.

629
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: And then of course this year as the economy reopens,

630
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: we've heard all this talk about a labor shortage, and

631
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: I'm just curious if this is something that you've experienced yourself. Yeah,

632
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: we we hired someone really great at the beginning of

633
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: the pandemic to be the manager. And then I think

634
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: that was you know, as soon as we did that

635
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: and then we couldn't open, it became sort of unconscionable

636
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: to us that we would like if we wouldn't show

637
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: up at the bookstore every day, to send someone else

638
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: to do it for us, you know. So so we

639
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: just decided to sort of first have this person set

640
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: up everything and oversee the roll out of the of

641
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: the bookstore, knowing we weren't going to open, and then

642
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: sort of repurpose them for other projects until they felt

643
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: comfortable and we felt comfortable. And then you know, obviously

644
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: the decision for for all of us to get vaccinated

645
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: and made some of this stuff less stressful. But you know,

646
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: Texas again shoots itself in the foot, decides to sort

647
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: of aggressively politicize the vaccine, you know, to lift the

648
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: mass mandate early again, the pro business state passes this

649
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: sort of nonsense legislation about, you know, not being able

650
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: to discriminate in the form of vaccine passports. It's like, okay, great, Um,

651
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: now you have to deal in a universe where you're

652
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: asking someone, an hourly employee, to demand some complete strangers

653
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: much bigger than them to put on a mask. And

654
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: you know, this is a state where people can openly

655
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 1: carry handguns like that. That is a totally unfair birden

656
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 1: to throw on businesses. But it's the reality of where

657
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: we are. So we we said, what can we do

658
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: about that? My wife and I have volunteered in the

659
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: vaccine clinic in town. We've tried to go like, we

660
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: want to live and work in a town where people

661
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: are vaccinated and safe. We can't affect government policy, but

662
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: we can sort of try to be part of the solution.

663
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: So what about like just sort of I mean when

664
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: we talked about the power outages and the power stress

665
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: and the buying things like buying shells or like buying

666
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: furniture or buying lighting, I imagine this was like totally

667
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: new to you. And again we keep hearing about like

668
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: shortages and delays with all that stuff. What was that process? Like, yeah,

669
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: you you definitely hear that from contractors and stuff. They're like, hey,

670
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: you know, I had to go to six different home depots,

671
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, to get this thing. And you're and and

672
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm sort of going like, but I don't want you

673
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: to have to go to any home depots, Like can

674
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: we buy this stuff online? Because again I've I've I've

675
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: been very conscious of not wanting to ask people to

676
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: do things I wasn't comfortable dealing with myself. But we're

677
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: in the middle of this, you know, we talked about

678
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: the freeze. Well now it's this crazy heat storm and

679
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: lo and behold the A c uh you know, goes

680
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: out in the building and we're gonna have to spend

681
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, a large amount of money on these two

682
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: A c s. But like we're in a line, in

683
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: a long line from the company, so like they have

684
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: to wait to get it, and then we have to

685
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: get slotted in with all the other businesses and people

686
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: that need air conditioners, most of which you know, probably

687
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: weren't super well maintained during the pandemic, and then to

688
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: go through this freeze. So that that's what like right

689
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: now today we were trying to figure out how to

690
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: get this, to say, cee situation fixed and you know,

691
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: sweating our asses off in the meantime. I guess that's

692
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: a good segue into what things are like right now. Um,

693
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: have things improved our customers coming in? Does the business

694
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: feel established to you? Yeah, it feels. It's been just

695
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: long enough that it's sort of part of a new normal.

696
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: But business has been better than we expected. People have,

697
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: for the most part, been wonderful. So many people have

698
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: comeing up. I love bookstores. I you know, I always

699
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: wanted there to be a bookstore here. I'm so happy

700
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: you're here. And it's been cool to see other businesses

701
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: pop up, you know, and some of the empty storefronts

702
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: since we opened. So we're feeling good about where it's going.

703
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: But then, like a lot of business owners, you sort

704
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: of also out of the corner of your eye or

705
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: your track in this delta variant, and you're wondering, you know,

706
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 1: could could this all go back in the other direction again?

707
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: And how can we be prepared for that too. The

708
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: other thing we haven't really talked about is independent bookselling

709
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: in the time of Amazon. Obviously, it's been pretty you know,

710
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: I fear the sort of like chain physical bookstores like

711
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: they got sort of obliterated, but there does seem to

712
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: be the space for more independent um bookstores are things

713
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: like sort of at an equilibrium, were like sort of

714
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: like true book levers are supporting independent books, maybe more

715
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: than they did in the past, and they're sort of

716
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: like this balance or is there still like persistent Amazon

717
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: anxiety in your community, in your world. I'm a little

718
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: unique among authors in that, like I don't get any

719
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: of this Amazon hate, Like I love Amazon. Amazon has

720
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: been amazing for me, not just because they've sold a

721
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: lot of my books, but they've surfaced my books to

722
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: so many people that would have never heard about them,

723
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: and that quite frankly, you know a lot of indie

724
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: bookstores have never got behind them the way that Amazon has.

725
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: So you know, when I go on Amazon, I know

726
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: my books are in front of people. When I walk

727
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 1: into a random indie bookstore and you know, Cleveland or something,

728
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: it's not a guarantee they're going to carry my book.

729
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: So the the majority of my sales come on Amazon.

730
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: That not only am I not going to bite the

731
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: hand that feeds me, I'm grateful for for what Amazon

732
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: has done but I would say that our strategy is. Look,

733
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: if you know, if you're looking for a very specific book,

734
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: like you want to read the newest whatever, um, You're

735
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: probably just going to buy it on Amazon because you're

736
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: that title is in your mind and you want it

737
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: right now, You're going to buy it there. The need

738
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: we're trying to fill is, hey, exactly the need we

739
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: felt when we were sitting at that breakfast restaurant, you know,

740
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: eighteen months ago, which is we're having brunch. What are

741
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: we gonna do after? I love browsing bookstore. So the

742
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: premise of our bookstore is not that we carry every book,

743
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: but that we carry books that we know you will like,

744
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: that we have gotten behind, that we want you to

745
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: check out. And you know, that was something that surprised

746
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: me when I was researching about the indie bookstore business.

747
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: The average indie bookstore carries about ten thousand titles, which

748
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: is an insane amount of books. We carry about six

749
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: hundred titles. We have multiple copies of those books. But

750
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: my premises I want to have a small amount of

751
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: books that of them I've not only personally read, but

752
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: like I can tell you about and I can tell

753
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: you why they're amazing. You absolutely have to read them,

754
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: and I want to be able to display them in

755
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: the store in a way that they stand out. So

756
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: we carry a smaller number of books that we we

757
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: we know people will love. That's the premise of this store.

758
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: So we're not competing with Amazon, We're not competing with

759
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble. It's right right back to this email

760
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: list I've done this whole time, which is like, here

761
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: are some books that I'm personally vouching for that I

762
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: think you'll love. Um. So I realized that we haven't

763
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: actually plugged many of your books on the podcast, So

764
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm just going to say that two of my favorites

765
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: of yours are Conspiracy, which probably for our listeners is

766
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: a little bit media naval gayzy, but that's why I

767
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: am very interested in it. And Ego Is the Enemy

768
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: was also amazing and helped me a lot when I

769
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: moved into a managerial role at Bloomberg. So thank you

770
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: for that. And I have to ask, are you working

771
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: on anything at the moment. Yeah. I mean that was

772
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: the other part of the pandemic, which is as as

773
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: expensive and costly and crazy as all this has been.

774
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: It was also wonderful to have a quiet, safe space

775
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: just to myself that I could write and and to

776
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: know that hey, if I show up every day and

777
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: write this book, do my job, We're not going to

778
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: starve to death. It will cover all this, right, And

779
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: so that was that that was the ultimate sort of

780
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: variable use of the space was that I could use

781
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: the upstairs to write. And so I worked on a

782
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: kid's book during the pandemic. I wrote a kid's book

783
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: about Marcus. Reallys uh that that that came out in March,

784
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: and then I I'm just now finishing and it's going

785
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: to the printers. I'm writing a book about Courage that

786
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: will come out in the fall and hopefully we'll be

787
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: the first event that we have in the store, depending

788
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: on sort of where the pandemic goes. My wife is

789
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: reading the book by Conspiracy. Oh, thank you, it's great. Um.

790
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: And the new one on Courage it's called Courage is Calling.

791
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,479
Speaker 1: Is that right? I'm looking on Amazon right now, Yeah,

792
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: we'll see there you go. Yes, Courage is Calling. The

793
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: subtitle is Fortune Favors the Brave, and it's it's the

794
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: first in a four book series and the first one

795
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 1: comes out and I believe September. Okay, well, we'll definitely

796
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: look out for it. Um. Ryan, thank you so much

797
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: for coming on all thoughts and talking to us about

798
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: the challenges of starting not just a new business, but

799
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: you know, an actual brick and mortar bookstore during a

800
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: massive pandemic. Appreciate it. It feels good to uh to

801
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: vent a little bit UH and and share, to share,

802
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: to share the journey. So I appreciate the opportunity. Well,

803
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: thanks so much, Ryan. That was great. Ryan. Thanks so Joe.

804
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: You can probably tell I enjoyed that conversation, but I

805
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: think it really helped to crystallize a lot of the

806
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: different ideas that we've been talking about. I know we've

807
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: spoken individually on a number of these supply chain issues

808
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: now and a number of these sort of like high

809
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: level economic themes. But I feel like this one store

810
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: in you know, a small town close to Austin probably

811
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: crystallizes a lot of what's going on. Yeah, totally right,

812
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: And I feel like, you know, it's interesting, like it

813
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: did would not have occurred to me that, like, even

814
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: though it makes sense that like publishing got curtailed at

815
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: the same time there was like a spike in demand

816
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: for physical books, like how many? Like I just feel

817
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: like that is such a repeated theme that we saw

818
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: over and over again this last year, the simultaneous spike

819
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: in demand and the color and the you know, the

820
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: diminishment of supply all hitting at once. I just hadn't

821
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: thought about it at all with the physical books, And

822
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: then everything you said about shipping was like super interesting,

823
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: Like I didn't even realize that, you know, track your

824
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: own ship and getting to decide like when it gets unloaded,

825
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: just all super interesting stuff. Yeah. And also publishers prioritizing

826
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: prints from certain authors. I guess like intuitively it makes sense,

827
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: but it's also something I hadn't thought about before. But

828
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: the other thing I'm thinking is getting back to that

829
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: question of whether or not these pressures are transitory. You know,

830
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: this idea of does the publishing or you know, the

831
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: physical book shortage resolve itself because publishers ramp up capacity

832
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: in one way or another, or because demand starts to

833
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: normalize and unfortunately people start reading less, or maybe it's

834
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: a permanent shift in behavior and having spent a year

835
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: at home, people decide that they actually really like reading books, um,

836
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: and it becomes the new normal. I guess it's too

837
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: early to tell. It's too really, but again it's interesting

838
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: because like how many times have we seen like an

839
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: industry was trying to get like super lean or like

840
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: just in time inventory or and again like books, it

841
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: must be suit Like I get that impulse like of

842
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: course that you want to not of inventory, but also

843
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: like books are super unpredictable in terms of what's gonna

844
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: have a huge run. So once again you see like

845
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 1: the sort of cost of like trying to get to

846
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: to lean to fancy with your inventory. Yeah, absolutely, Okay,

847
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: shall we leave it there? Yes, leave it there. This

848
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: has been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm

849
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 1: Tracy Alloway. You can follow me on Twitter at Tracy

850
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: Alloway and I'm Joe wi Isn't All. You can follow

851
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at the Stalwart. Follow our guest on Twitter,

852
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: Ryan Holiday, He's at Ryan Holiday. Follow our producer Laura Carlson,

853
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: She's at Laura M. Carlson. Followed the Bloomberg head of

854
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: podcast Francesco Levi at Francesca Today and check out all

855
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: of our podcast at Bloomberg onto the handle at podcasts.

856
00:46:43,239 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Year to