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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Hi.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, we have some major breaking news. We just wrapped

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Speaker 2: our show and of course we received the big news

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Speaker 2: of the day. The Supreme Court has now ruled nine

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Speaker 2: zero to reject the Colorado Supreme Court decision that would

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Speaker 2: have held Donald J. Trump off of the ballot in

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Speaker 2: that state. The Colorado Supreme Court affirming a Colorado Secretary

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Speaker 2: of State decision ruling that Donald Trump was not allowed

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Speaker 2: on the ballot because he had violated the Fourteenth Amendment.

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Speaker 2: In their estimation, the nine oz decision is a bit complicated, Crystal,

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Speaker 2: and we can break it down for everyone.

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Speaker 3: Let's put it up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: While they unanimously agree that that the Colorado Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: went too far and the Colorasado Secretary of State in

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Speaker 2: their disqualification of Donald Trump on the ballot. The majority opinion,

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Speaker 2: which includes six out of the nine justices, effectively says

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Speaker 2: that this was overstepping the role of Congress. The Congress,

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Speaker 2: through its enumeration of the fourteenth Amendment, not only had

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Speaker 2: to have that stand, but would have to pass a

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Speaker 2: piece of legislation that specifically lays out which individuals and

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Speaker 2: how were to be disqualified from office under the fourteenth Amendment.

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Speaker 3: Three of the liberal.

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Speaker 2: Justices Katanji, Bound Jackson, Justice Sotomayor, and Justice and Lena

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Speaker 2: Kagan dissented from that majority opinion, but found with the

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Speaker 2: nine to zero unanimous decision that they of Colorado had

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Speaker 2: gone beyond.

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Speaker 3: The terms of the fourteenth Amendment.

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Speaker 2: So basically the majority opinion and where this justification now

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Speaker 2: comes down is Colorado went too far, and that in

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Speaker 2: the future that Congress itself must pass specifically which types

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Speaker 2: of individuals, why, and how are disqualified from the ballot,

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Speaker 2: and that the hodgepodge nature of allowing secretaries of state

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Speaker 2: like Maine or Cholorado or others could not stand.

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Speaker 3: This what they all.

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Speaker 2: Unanimously found so very impactful case, probably the most significant

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Speaker 2: one since Bush versus Gore in terms of that decision,

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Speaker 2: but this one a little bit different in its finding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeahs number.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't surprising the direction that this went in. Just

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Speaker 1: to emphasize one of the things you're saying there, that

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Speaker 1: piece about the majority rule that Congress basically has to

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Speaker 1: pass a law in order for this section of the

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Speaker 1: Constitution to apply.

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Speaker 4: My recollection from when.

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Speaker 1: I was researching this previously is that would mean that

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Speaker 1: this provision is not self executing.

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Speaker 4: Some parts of the Constitution just.

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Speaker 1: They are what they are, and they are available for

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Speaker 1: enforcement as they are, and others actually require an Act

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Speaker 1: of Congress. That's what the majority of saying is saying.

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Speaker 1: That's the piece that a minority of the liberal justices

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Speaker 1: are saying, Hey, we don't agree with that part. That

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Speaker 1: part goes further than we need to in this decision.

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Speaker 1: Just as a reminder, I want to read to people

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Speaker 1: the text of Amendment fourteen, Section three, just so we

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Speaker 1: have a recollection of what we're talking about here. So

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Speaker 1: it says no person shall be a senator or representative

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Speaker 1: in Congress, or elector of President and vice president, or

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Speaker 1: hold any office civil or military under the United States,

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Speaker 1: or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath

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Speaker 1: as a member of Congress, or as an officer of

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Speaker 1: the United States, or as a member of any state

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Speaker 1: legislator legislature, or as an executive or a judicial officer

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Speaker 1: of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States,

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Speaker 1: shall have engaged an insurrection or rebellion against the same,

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Speaker 1: or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But

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Speaker 1: Congress may buy a vote of two thirds of each House,

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Speaker 1: remove such disability. That last piece, the fact that it

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Speaker 1: points in the amendment to Congress, was part of what

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Speaker 1: they used as a justification for saying, well, that sort

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Speaker 1: of indicates that what they really mean is Congress has

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Speaker 1: the final say in how this provision is applied. One

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Speaker 1: other thing that I wanted to note here is that

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Speaker 1: they do not appear to have taken any stand or

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Speaker 1: said anything about whether or not they believed that Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump engaged in an insurrection or gave aid or comfort

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Speaker 1: to an insurrection, And that was not actually even the

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Speaker 1: focus of his team's argument in this case. They were

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Speaker 1: focused more on these technical legal questions. Does the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States count as a quote officer of

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Speaker 1: the United States, a whole or as an office holder

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Speaker 1: of the United States, who does this responsibility fall to?

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Speaker 4: And I wanted to read a little.

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Speaker 1: Bit of the liberals who had the dissenting view that

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Speaker 1: they agreed that Colorado went too far. They agreed that

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Speaker 1: they did not have the power to enforce this particular

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Speaker 1: piece of the Constitution, but they said they should have

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Speaker 1: had a more limited ruling. They say, if it is

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Speaker 1: not necessary to decide more to dispose of the case,

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Speaker 1: than it is necess sari not to decide more. That's

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Speaker 1: from actually the Dobbs decision. That fundamental principle of judicial

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Speaker 1: restraint is practically as old as our republic. This court

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Speaker 1: is authorized to say what the law is only because

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Speaker 1: those who apply a rule to particular cases much must

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Speaker 1: of necessity expound and interpret that rule. That's Marbury versus Madison.

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Speaker 1: Today the Court departs from that vital principle, deciding not

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Speaker 1: just this case, but challenges that might arise in the future.

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Speaker 1: In this case, the Court must decide whether Colorado may

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Speaker 1: keep a presidential candidate off the ballot on the ground

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Speaker 1: that he is an oath breaking insurrectionist and thus disqualified

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Speaker 1: from holding federal office under Section three of the Fourteenth

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Speaker 1: Amendment allowing Colorado to do so, would we agree create

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Speaker 1: a chaotic state by state patchwork at odds with our

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Speaker 1: nation's federalism principles. That is enough to resolve this case.

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Speaker 1: Yet the majority goes further, and again they go on

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Speaker 1: to point out this piece of their interpretation that the

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Speaker 1: body that has the ability to enforce this provision is

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Speaker 1: common That's the piece that they descend on, even as.

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Speaker 2: They agree over all, Yeah, it's actually interesting too. Trump's argument,

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Speaker 2: as I'm understanding here from what they write, was to

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Speaker 2: hold that the section three disqualifies quote every oath breaking insurrectionist, except,

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Speaker 2: as they write, the most powerful one, because he was

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Speaker 2: arguing that the president was not in effect a quote

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Speaker 2: unquote office holder of.

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Speaker 3: The United States.

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Speaker 2: He says, actually, though both of these results are inconsistent

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Speaker 2: both Colorado and President Trump's argument about the highest office

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Speaker 2: in the land. Thus, they then use the contextual point

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Speaker 2: to Congress and say, both of the Trump argument and

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Speaker 2: Colorado argument are inconsistent with the historical basis of section

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Speaker 2: three of the fourteenth Amendment, and thus they're establishing this

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Speaker 2: new standard for how this is going to work in

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Speaker 2: the first place. So I know, it's kind of complicated

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Speaker 2: Lee Lee's and all that, then that effect is obvious.

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Speaker 2: It's Colorado loss, Maine and all these other states are

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Speaker 2: not allowed to do this. I guess it invites an

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Speaker 2: interesting question because one of the things that we had

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Speaker 2: talked to here before is if they had ruled in

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Speaker 2: the way that the liberals had wanted to them, then

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Speaker 2: this would have been a different question post the conviction

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Speaker 2: if it were to happen of January sixth on that case,

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Speaker 2: because there's going to be a big argument there on

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Speaker 2: a legal standard about free speech. But Supreme Court now

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Speaker 2: making it so that even if any of that were

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Speaker 2: to occur, Congress itself, by two thirds of have to

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Speaker 2: pass a law being like, yeah, that qualifies as an

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Speaker 2: explicit event under X, Y and Z, and that's how

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Speaker 2: we are able to remove somebody from the ballot. So

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Speaker 2: this is one setting a pretty high standard effectively politically

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Speaker 2: impossible today, but you know, who knows what it would

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Speaker 2: look like in the future that we as a Congress

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Speaker 2: and of people are the only ones who will be

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Speaker 2: able to establish some sort of law where states could

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Speaker 2: act in this manner.

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Speaker 1: After biden Mania sweeps the nation and They've got a

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Speaker 1: seventy seat majority in the Senate and a majority, and

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Speaker 1: I think they can pass this law and deeming that

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is an insuractionist, just to underscore or give

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Speaker 1: an example there. So if they had ruled in the

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Speaker 1: more limited way that the liberal justices wanted them to

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Speaker 1: and basically lived unresolved, Okay, they're saying Colorado can't do this,

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Speaker 1: but we're not going to really say what the process

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Speaker 1: would be that would meet our standards. Then if you

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Speaker 1: had someone like Trump who was actually found guilty of

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Speaker 1: insurrection through the criminal system, then you could have an

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Speaker 1: argument again of like, okay, well, now does this supply

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court? First of all, Donald Trump has not

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Speaker 1: been charged with insurrection. I just want to be clear

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Speaker 1: about this is and I'm just talking in hypotheticals here,

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Speaker 1: but the Supreme Court has closed that door and said no, no,

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Speaker 1: this has to be explicitly done through congressional legislation. But

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Speaker 1: as I said, not making any sort of determination of

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Speaker 1: whether or not in their view, donald Trump did insight

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Speaker 1: or aid a bet, whatever the language, is an insurrection.

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Speaker 4: So that's where we are.

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Speaker 2: Just a reminder to you, there's still quite a few

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Speaker 2: cases for Trump before the Supreme Court. We still have

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Speaker 2: the immunity case where we heard some of the arguments

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Speaker 2: around there that wasn't really expected today. This one, believe

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Speaker 2: had to have an expedited opinion in order to resolve

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Speaker 2: this before the election.

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Speaker 3: And there may even be some more that come to

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Speaker 3: the court.

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Speaker 2: So all of that will affect the overall trial date

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Speaker 2: for the eventual January sixth trial. So stay tuned. This

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Speaker 2: is not the first breaking news segment that we're likely

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Speaker 2: to do on the subject. We'll see you guys later.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. We have an amazing show

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Speaker 2: for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we do jam packed show this morning. So we

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Speaker 1: got a lot of breaking news here with regards to Israel.

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris meeting with Israeli Security Cabinet Minister Benny Gantz.

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Speaker 1: This is over the objections of bb Net Yahoo, which

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Speaker 1: is interesting and this comes of course as the US

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Speaker 1: is dropping the teeniest, tiniest, most measly bit of aid

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Speaker 1: on in Gaza in what is honestly a humiliating situation

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Speaker 1: for the United States of Americas.

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Speaker 4: Will break all of that down for you.

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Speaker 1: We have more really bad polls for Joe Biden, both

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Speaker 1: from the Wall Street Journal and from the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we say this every week, but I

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Speaker 1: also feel like every week things just keep getting.

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Speaker 3: For him, getty more data.

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Speaker 1: The picture keeps becoming more clear, and we also have

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Speaker 1: some specific numbers about just how unhappy the Democratic base

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Speaker 1: is with his policy visa the Israel. Also, speaking of

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Speaker 1: that Super Tuesday is tomorrow, will tell you what to expect,

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Speaker 1: what states are set to vote, and also how you

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Speaker 1: can register a protest vote if you live.

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Speaker 4: In one of those states.

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Speaker 1: One of Biden's favorite CNN anchors is roasting him also

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Speaker 1: for his Israel policy. New York Times is in absolute chaos.

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Speaker 1: As we have been tracking here. They're now being accused

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Speaker 1: by the Union of racially profiling in a leak investigation

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Speaker 1: that has to do with that supposed expose on sexual

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Speaker 1: assault being weaponized by Hamas. On October seventh, the reporter

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Speaker 1: who has been breaking a lot of these stories from

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Speaker 1: the Intercept is going to join us to break all.

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Speaker 4: Of that down for you.

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Speaker 1: We also have a lot of answers now about that

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Speaker 1: flower massacre that we covered last week. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: break that down in my monologue and Sager's taking look

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Speaker 1: at Elon's AI lawsuit, which has huge implications, and for

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Speaker 1: once I am actually on team Elon on this one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I will convert everyone too pro Elon

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Speaker 3: at least of this topic, this particular instance, on this

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Speaker 3: very particular one.

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Speaker 2: In the meantime, let's go and put this up there

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Speaker 2: on the screen. We have got a live stream that

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Speaker 2: is coming for everybody on March seventh for the State

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Speaker 2: of the Union. We will have an exclusive premium only

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Speaker 2: live stream after the State of the Union where you

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Speaker 2: guys get to ask questions live and the four of

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Speaker 2: us will answer from here at the desk.

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Speaker 3: So we'll have the Counterpoints crew with us.

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Speaker 2: We'll preview, we'll lead into it, we'll watch it all

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Speaker 2: live together, and then we will react on the other

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Speaker 2: side before we go into premium content. So if you

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Speaker 2: want to participate in that, Breakingpoints dot com to become

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Speaker 2: a premium subscriber today.

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Speaker 1: All right, So let's go ahead and get to the

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Speaker 1: very latest with regards to Israel. Kamala Harris making some

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Speaker 1: news yesterday. This's got a lot of attention. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about whether or not it should have gotten a lot

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Speaker 1: of attention on the other side. But at Edmund Pettis

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Speaker 1: Bridge commemorating historic civil rights event, she called for a

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Speaker 1: temporary ceasefire and use some more I guess, strenuous language

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Speaker 1: with regards to Israel's assault on Goazia.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a look and what she had to say.

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Speaker 3: And given.

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Speaker 5: The immense scale of suffering in Gaza, there must be

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Speaker 5: an immediate ceasefire or at least the next six weeks,

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Speaker 5: which is what is currently on the table. This will

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Speaker 5: get the hostages out and get a significant amount of

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Speaker 5: aid in. This would allow us to build something more enduring,

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Speaker 5: to ensure Israel is secure and to respect the right

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Speaker 5: of the Palestinian people to dignity, freedom and self determination.

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Speaker 1: So she says immediate ceasefire there, but what she's really

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Speaker 1: talking about is just the same temporary ceasefire that they've

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Speaker 1: been pushing for, which you know is unlikely to happen

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Speaker 1: because Hamas wants a permanent ceasefire. So it was weird

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Speaker 1: to meet Zagera because people were like making a deal

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Speaker 1: on a gest yes, but.

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Speaker 4: She's just actually backing the.

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Speaker 3: Same I immediately pack on the.

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Speaker 4: Biden administration policy for a while now.

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Speaker 2: Right, So I saw all like everything, everyone and people

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh my gosh, Kamala breaks with Biden.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, well, did you listen?

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Speaker 2: Because it says to build an enduring thing that leads

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Speaker 2: to a release of hostages. I'm like, this is the

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Speaker 2: current framework that has been put forth by the Biden administration,

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Speaker 2: by the Egyptians, by the Qataris, by the Israelis and Hamas.

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Speaker 2: Now let's be clear in terms of quote unquote agreement.

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Speaker 2: The Biden administration claims that the Israelis have agreed to

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Speaker 2: it quote unquote in principle, there has been no vote

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Speaker 2: in the Israeli War Cabinet or acceptance by those cabinet officials.

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Speaker 2: We have yet to hear word from hamasas to whether

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Speaker 2: they would.

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Speaker 3: Agree on it.

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Speaker 2: As I understand the crystal, A lot of it comes

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Speaker 2: down to they want an itemized list of the state

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Speaker 2: of the hostages, which I'm not exactly sure that's what

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Speaker 2: they claim. I'm not exactly sure what hamasas pushback is.

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Speaker 2: As you said, they want a permanency spire. There could

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Speaker 2: be a lot of posturing going on. We don't exactly

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Speaker 2: know for sure. But for some reason this was interpreted

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Speaker 2: as a departure in policy when sure, I mean, you

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Speaker 2: can use rhetoric all you want. Yeah, it doesn't change

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Speaker 2: anything at all in terms of where the ground is.

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Speaker 1: The very most you can say is that the rhetoric

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Speaker 1: was a little different here for her to talk about

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Speaker 1: the immense scale of the suffering of Palestinians.

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Speaker 4: That is a shift in tone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair, And I do think that that shift

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Speaker 1: in tone, as basically meaningless as it ends up being,

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Speaker 1: is a direct result of the protest vote in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: The immense amount of polling at this point that shows

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Speaker 1: that the Biden administration has a huge problem, in particular

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Speaker 1: with the base of their own party, and that it

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Speaker 1: extends way beyond just Arab Americans and Muslim Americans, basically

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Speaker 1: extends throughout the entire Democratic base. We're going to give

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Speaker 1: you some polls in the next segment that back that up.

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Speaker 1: But Sager, you know what I have really read into

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Speaker 1: this along with let's put this next piece up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. Kamala Harrison also meeting with Benny Gantz, he

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Speaker 1: as a member of the Israeli security Cabinet in DC

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Speaker 1: today they're going to talk about this temporary cease fire.

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Speaker 1: They're supposed to talk about humanitarian aid and variety of

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Speaker 1: other things. Noteworthy that Gans is seen as a potential

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Speaker 1: opponent of BB Netanyaho, potential replacement. His approval rating much

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Speaker 1: higher than net Nyaho. You know, he's sort of framed

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Speaker 1: as a moderate. He's really not. This is a former

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Speaker 1: IDF chief of staff. This is also a very hawkish guy.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that he came here in that the

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Speaker 1: US invited him here over the objections of Netnyahu, who

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Speaker 1: did not approve this trip, which, by the way, you know,

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Speaker 1: by Israeli law, you're supposed to have the approval Prime Minister.

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Speaker 1: This is sort of seen as a you know, a

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Speaker 1: slap in the face of BB, or a strong.

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Speaker 4: Signal to BB or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Again, it ends up being pretty meaningless because they're not

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Speaker 1: actually changing the policy.

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Speaker 4: But they have shifted.

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Speaker 1: From just out and out we're defending Israel, We're defending

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Speaker 1: everything they're doing, to trying to gaslight you into believing that, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're doing everything we can and we really do want

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Speaker 1: to cease fire, which is you know, these people they

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Speaker 1: are obstinate. Can't we can't convince them. We can't persuade them,

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Speaker 1: And for the millionth time, you have a million tools

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Speaker 1: at your disposal if you actually wanted to use leverage

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Speaker 1: to compel them to take a different course, but you

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Speaker 1: remain unwilling to.

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Speaker 4: Use those tools.

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Speaker 1: So this is basically, you know, a different variety of

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Speaker 1: all of those reports we're getting, you know, those leaked reports,

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Speaker 1: always having tough conversations behind the scenes with Bbie. This

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Speaker 1: is just basically the new phase. At this point, you

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Speaker 1: can't really defend Israel the writings on the wall with

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Speaker 1: regard to the Democratic base, so they have to shift

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Speaker 1: postures and pretend like they're working really hard to change

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Speaker 1: the outcome on the ground, even though the reality is

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Speaker 1: very clear that the policy is the exact same of

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Speaker 1: unconditional support and not using any leverage to try to

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Speaker 1: change behavior.

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Speaker 2: I read it as Biden can't meet with GANS because

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Speaker 2: he's not ahead of state, so they had to send

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Speaker 2: the number two. I also saw Ganz confirm that he'll

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Speaker 2: be meeting with the National Security Advisor Sullivan. But I

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Speaker 2: also see it similarly in terms of they think they

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Speaker 2: have a bb problem as opposed to I mean, if

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Speaker 2: we look at GANS I mean, this is when one

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Speaker 2: of the people who has been the most vociferous and

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Speaker 2: arguing for war with Lebanon and for the continuation and

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Speaker 2: the expansion of the war.

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Speaker 3: It's not just to Bbe's benefit.

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Speaker 2: Right, There are some important domestic political differences between Gans

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Speaker 2: and Nets and Yahu that matter in an Israeli context,

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Speaker 2: but for our purposes, they're basically.

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Speaker 3: United on the warfront.

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Speaker 2: So in that then what we have to understand is

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Speaker 2: what I think is happening is that they're trying to

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Speaker 2: reframe it away from bib to try and send a

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Speaker 2: signal that the US subtly supports Benny Gantz, where the

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Speaker 2: policy though would not change. And you know, there's no look,

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Speaker 2: as people you and I who have now followed this

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Speaker 2: basically day in and day out, there is no substantive

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Speaker 2: daylight at all really between these two men on the

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Speaker 2: way that the war should be prosecuted. Furthermore, in terms

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Speaker 2: of whatever some sort of future coalition would look like,

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Speaker 2: there is no coalition in the future where Gance would

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Speaker 2: be able to arise that does not also include many

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Speaker 2: of the people who support Bebe right now. So it's

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Speaker 2: not like a whole lot of things would change. I

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Speaker 2: do think that there has been obviously some adjustment post

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Speaker 2: Michigan and then attention for Super Tuesday and some of

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Speaker 2: the fallout, which we will discuss, but substantively I don't

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Speaker 2: see a single change right now in the policy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. Now.

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Speaker 1: I mean the Biden administration both with the policy they

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Speaker 1: announced these you know, the sanctions of these four violent settlers,

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Speaker 1: and with their focus on the problems of Bibi net

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Speaker 1: Yahoo or Ben Gevier or Smochrit specifically, they want to

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Speaker 1: pretend like this is an issue of like a few

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Speaker 1: bad apples versus, you know, a whole of government and

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Speaker 1: the fact that all of Israeli society is basically behind

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Speaker 1: the way this war has been prosecuted, with the exception

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Speaker 1: of the coalition behind the hostage families who want a

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Speaker 1: deal in order to secure the release of the hostages.

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Speaker 1: I also want to say another thing about that potential

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Speaker 1: hostage deal that has been driving me crazy, the framing

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Speaker 1: in the Western press and coming also from the Biden administration.

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, you even heard it a little bit there

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Speaker 1: in the comments she played, is that if the deal fails,

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Speaker 1: it's because Hamas is just being unreasonable. Well, I just

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Speaker 1: want to be clear what Hamas is saying is effectively

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Speaker 1: not that they're like good actors. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: or anything, guys, but just so we understand their position.

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Speaker 1: They see that Natanyahu has said, listen, even if we

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Speaker 1: secure this deal, afterwards, we're going into Rafa, where one

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Speaker 1: point three million Palestinians have been pushed and are sheltering

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Speaker 1: in absolutely, already dire and dangerous conditions. Okay, so they're saying, no,

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Speaker 1: we don't want just a temporary pause in the genocide,

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Speaker 1: we want it to stop completely, especially since this is

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Speaker 1: hanging over all of the heads of the Palestinian civilians

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Speaker 1: there in Rafa. So you know, to frame this is

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Speaker 1: just like, oh, it's just the Palestinian side that's being unreasonable,

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Speaker 1: I think is disingenuous, and negotiation requires both sides to you.

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Speaker 4: Know, come to the table.

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Speaker 1: And at this point it should be incredibly clear, and

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Speaker 1: it would be consistent with what not only the Democratic base,

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Speaker 1: but the overwhelming majority of Americans want to push for

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Speaker 1: a permanent cease fire.

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Speaker 4: Gaza is already all but destroyed.

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Speaker 1: I mean the level of hunger starvation which we're about

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Speaker 1: to get to is just horrifying. The medical system has

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Speaker 1: completely broken down. Every civilian target you can imagine has

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Speaker 1: been targeted and destroyed.

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Speaker 4: Northern Gaza is like completely destroyed.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing to go back to there, so the annihilation

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Speaker 1: is virtually complete, and I guess they want to finish

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Speaker 1: off the job in Rafin. That is effectively what the

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Speaker 1: Palestinian side is objecting to with regard to that immense

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Speaker 1: scale of suffering. The Biden administration has responded by dropping

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Speaker 1: air dropping the teeniest, tiniest bit of aid that you

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Speaker 1: can imagine. Go ahead and show these images. You can

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Speaker 1: see sins some as many people online called it like

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Speaker 1: hunger games ass humanitarian aid drop. Here you can see

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Speaker 1: Palestinians running to the ocean to try to secure some

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Speaker 1: food for their families.

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Speaker 4: Which are you know, as we've reported.

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Speaker 1: Babies now officially dying of starvation. Some of the images

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Speaker 1: that are coming out of people who are children whose

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Speaker 1: bodies are wasted is horrifying.

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Speaker 4: There isn't a person in.

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Speaker 1: The Gaza strip who has sufficient food at this point.

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Speaker 1: The amount of aid trucks that have been allowed in

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Speaker 1: by Israel has plummeted precipitously even after that ICJ ruling,

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Speaker 1: those aid truck deliveries are down by forty percent. And honestly,

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Speaker 1: Sagar the fact that the US has to resort to this,

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Speaker 1: which it's thirty eight thousand meals, which is enough for

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Speaker 1: one meal for two percent of the population, just so

441
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: we understand the math here. Now, this is an attempt

442
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 1: for them to solve their conscience, but it's also such

443
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: a humiliation, Like we give Israel so much money, we

444
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 1: give them total diplomatic cover at the UN, we backed

445
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 1: them NonStop, and we can't even get our humanitarian aid

446
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: trucks into.

447
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 4: The Gaza strip. We can't do that.

448
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: We have to you know, drop things in, you know,

449
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: just this pitodly amount. It's absolutely embarrassing that this is

450
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: what they have come to. But because they're not willing

451
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: to use any sort of aid or leverage, this is

452
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: where we are.

453
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 2: No, I'm actually furious about it because number one, let's

454
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen, as you can

455
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 2: see up in front of you. Dropping aid from planes

456
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: quote is expensive and inefficient.

457
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 3: Why do it?

458
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 2: Well, really, what they arrive at, and this again is

459
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,679
Speaker 2: why I'm furious, is that we are eating the cost

460
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 2: here with the Royal Jordanians probably cost well into the

461
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 2: millions of dollars to try and do something like this.

462
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: It's incredibly inefficient, it's super expensive, and the solution is

463
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: actually quite obvious.

464
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: Just let the trucks that are already.

465
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 2: Prepaid into the damn gaza strip, which are the ones

466
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: which carry all.

467
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 3: Of the food.

468
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 2: But they won't do it, and then apparently we won't

469
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: even ask them to do it, or we won't or

470
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 2: I guess we've asked them and they said no. So

471
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 2: it's like, well, this is what we're resorting to. What

472
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 2: does exactly does this mean? What's a precedent?

473
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 3: Are we going to now unilaterally air drop all of this?

474
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: I mean, in my opinion, Israel should be paying for

475
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 2: literally one hundred percent of all this. They're going to

476
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: ones who create the entire situation, or we can bill

477
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: them and you can take it out of the aid

478
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: that we've been providing them by. It would be totally

479
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: fine with something like that, But this is a humiliation

480
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 2: in terms of we have to resort to these. I mean,

481
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: it's not even really fair to call it half ass,

482
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 2: like you know what two percent to measure an ass

483
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: to try and do something like this when the solution

484
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: is just staring us right in the face, and you know,

485
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 2: we all know what this is. It's basically a pr

486
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: At this point, I actually think it's I actually don't

487
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: think I think it's moral to be honest, because you're

488
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: almost giving people hope that something like this will continue.

489
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 3: I mean, think about any billions and billions.

490
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: And trillions of dollars like it would cost if you

491
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 2: want an amount to be able to supply the entire

492
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 2: place the strip by eight. It's not gonna happen. And

493
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 2: I don't think it should happen on Opera. I think

494
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 2: they're the ones that should do it.

495
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like, it's just very obvious that

496
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: the actual answer is a cease fire, not a six

497
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: week and then you can get back to murdering civilians

498
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: en mass a ceasefire and a massive influx of humanitarian age.

499
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: Remember the Gaza Strip because of the long standing is

500
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: really blockade has been dependent on aid far before October seventh,

501
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: and now they're getting many fewer trucks in than they

502
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: were before, and obviously their capability to produce their own

503
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: food is completely ravaged. Bakeries have been destroyed, Obviously there's.

504
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 4: No imports coming in.

505
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: Farmland has been raised and destroyed, orchards have been destroyed,

506
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: and there's no ability of Palestinians to move even within

507
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: the Gaza strip without completely risking their lives. So it

508
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: is a dire and desperate situation. The answer is very clear,

509
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: which is a ceasefire and a massive surge of humanitarian aid.

510
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: This does literally nothing except maybe like Joe Biden can

511
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: sleep a little better at night because he feels like

512
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: he did something. It is a total pr move and

513
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: it fits again with the Kamala Harris comments, you know,

514
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: a little more vociferous language with her meeting with Benny Gantz,

515
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: and then you add this humanitarian aid drop. They are

516
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: trying to change their image with regards to this conflict.

517
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: They're not trying to change the policy, but they're trying.

518
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: They think they have an image problem, and this is

519
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: part of what came out to Saber after the uncommitted

520
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: vote in Michigan last week. You saw a bunch of

521
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: like Democratic flag types being like, oh, well, you know,

522
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: they need to change the way they're being perceived on

523
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: this issue. No, you need to change the policy, and

524
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: then the perception will change along with it.

525
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 4: But they're trying to trick people.

526
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: And I'm seeing also, like all of their shills on

527
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 1: Twitter and whatever also trying to say, don't you understand

528
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's working day and night to try to secure

529
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: a ceasefire. So they're trying to change the messaging here

530
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: without actually trying to change the policy, and these aid

531
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: drops are just, you know, a pr stunt in an

532
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: attempt to try to change that image. John Kirby was asked,

533
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: you know, a very good question about, hey, why are

534
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: we helping Israel star Palestinians effectively? And you'll see his

535
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: response basically, but Hamas, it's all there followed, et cetera,

536
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: et cetera. Israel bears no responsibility ever for any of

537
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: their actions in the Gaza strip because of October seventh, apparently.

538
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: And then we've also got in there Joe Biden, you know,

539
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: inspiring portrait of leadership, mixing up Israel and Ukraine multiple

540
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: times as he announces this ad drop policy.

541
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

542
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 6: Israel self has tried to help with the delivery of

543
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 6: humanitarian assistants. As I said, they tried air drops themselves

544
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 6: just a week or so ago on their own accord,

545
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 6: we still start.

546
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 3: We it's a war.

547
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 6: Zone and they and there's nowhere else for them to go.

548
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 6: It's not like in some other conflicts where they can they.

549
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: Can easily flee.

550
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 6: And and let's not forget how this started. Okay, there'd

551
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 6: be no need for air drops if AMAS hadn't chosen

552
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 6: to break what was a ceasefire in place on the

553
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 6: sixth of October. So let's not forget how this started.

554
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 6: If you haven't done it, I encourage you to go

555
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 6: online and read the twenty seventeen manifesto with Hamas. I

556
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 6: know you're smiling, but you should do it because if

557
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 6: you don't have any wait, let me finish. Let me finish.

558
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 6: This is an organization that has military capabilities and has

559
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 6: every intent of wiping Israel and the Israeli people off

560
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 6: the map. That has to be unacceptable to everybody. Mister

561
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 6: Sinwar chose to start this war. There was a ceasfire

562
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 6: in place, he broke it.

563
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 7: Do you think that the Israelis were defending themselves legitimately

564
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 7: when they killed?

565
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 4: There had been.

566
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 6: Too many people killed over the course of this conflict.

567
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 6: The President has said that himself.

568
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 8: In the coming days, we're going to join with our

569
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 8: friends in Jordan and other some Friday air drops of

570
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 8: additional food and supplies in the Ukraine and seek to

571
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 8: continue open up whether I avn'ts this into the Ukraine,

572
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 8: including possibility of a marine card, sol were large amounts

573
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 8: of humanitarian assistance.

574
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: So just to be really clear, I mean, this logic

575
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: is so bankrupt it's unbelievable. Basically, you could defend literally

576
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: anything being done by Israel and the Gaza strip based

577
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: on this logic of welhamas started it, which you know,

578
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: we'll leave aside the many decades that preceded October seventh,

579
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: but one atrocity which was committed on October seventh, Without

580
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: a doubt, those atrocities do not deserve, or do not merit,

581
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: or do not justify additional atrocities committed by Israel. But

582
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 1: you know, this is the continued line. And then when

583
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: they're asked about specific horrors perpetrated by the Israeli forces,

584
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: it's this very sanitized, very generic, Oh, too many civilians

585
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: have been killed. Well, but you won't condemn those killings,

586
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: you won't change your policy to try to thwart those killings.

587
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 4: You just allow this to go on and on and on.

588
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: Under this logic, we could have knew Afghanistan. It's like, okay,

589
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: is that.

590
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: Should have started it?

591
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 9: I agree?

592
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: I mean that's one of the And remember, look, there

593
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: was a probably would have been at least some little support,

594
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: you know here in the US. It's not like that

595
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: was a non existent rhetorical position in the aftermath after

596
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: nine to eleven.

597
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: What would most.

598
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: People have said, like, yeah, that's probably too far right,

599
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: Because that's what it all comes down to. It's like, well,

600
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: do we want to actually solve the problem what exactly

601
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: is the future and all of that going?

602
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: Hold? Can we put a seven up there on the

603
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 3: screen please?

604
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: Because this really comes back to something that we highlighted

605
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: actually from the very beginning of the war, is that

606
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: the way that you're conducting the war, you were making

607
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: it nearly impossible for what the future is going to

608
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: look like where it is controlled in any way and

609
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: doesn't explode into further violence. They say, lack of plan

610
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: for governing Gaza form of the backdrop to deadly convoy chaos. Look,

611
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: ignore the passive language and all of that that is

612
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: in front of you, but the crux of the point

613
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: is actually correct, which is that at the end of

614
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 2: the day, whenever you have no legitimate partner that is

615
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: on the ground and you're wiping out all of the infrastructure,

616
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: and you were conducting the war in such a way

617
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: that the civilian populace is totally against you, and the

618
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: only there is no legitimate governing authority, and you are

619
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: going to fire on people whenever they're swarming a bunch

620
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: of food. You are setting the conditions for exactly the

621
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: same course that happened in Mogadishu in Somalia after the

622
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: outbreak of the civil war, and don't forget that has

623
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: not to this day still been resolved more than thirty

624
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: some years later. They are basically creating that for in

625
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: that territory without any plan, and without a plan that

626
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: is legitimate in the eyes of the people under which

627
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: the war is being conducted. On top of that will

628
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: probably cover this tomorrow, you're actually continuing settlement policy and

629
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: having a government that has directly opposed to any legitimate

630
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: governing authority, meaning you really only have two options, which is,

631
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: you know, hunger games Somalia or you know, you take

632
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: security responsibility and they kind of want to have some

633
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: sort of middle ground, but the net result is terrible

634
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: because it will increase terrorism, but most importantly, it will

635
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 2: increase starvation and very likely absolute mass disaster, you know,

636
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 2: for I think maybe many decades to come.

637
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean I object to the framing that there's no

638
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: plan because I think we're watching the plan unfold. I

639
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: think Nan Yahoo has intentionally kept the plan quote unquote vague,

640
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: maybe right, so that he can sort of play both sides.

641
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: But we can see in the actions what the plan is.

642
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: The only question is whether they will be able to

643
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: fully accomplish that. I mean, the initial plan is complete annihilation,

644
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: and then you force the hand of the international community

645
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: of like, well, there's nowhere for them to go back to,

646
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: and there's no one who can run this area. What

647
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: are we going to do? I guess we just have

648
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: to resettle. I mean they even announced that they were

649
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: going to keep security control quote unquote of the Gaza strip,

650
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: that they were going to create a buffer zone. Those

651
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: are two things that the US supposedly objected to, but

652
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: that plan was released with no real objections from the

653
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: United States of America. So, you know, in pushing the

654
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: population all the way to Rafa, where they're pressed up

655
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: against the Egyptian border in destroying the entirety of the

656
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: Gaza strip. I think we see the plan unfolding, even

657
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: as they keep it a little bit vag so that

658
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: the US doesn't have to completely confront the reality of

659
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: what they have planned, which in theory at least we

660
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: would potentially maybe object to.

661
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 4: One more piece that I thought.

662
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: Was noteworthy with regard to the aid drop of the

663
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: thirty eight thousand meals, this pitiy amount, and the circumstances

664
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: under which we ended up doing that. This is a

665
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: former ambassador put this up on the screen, former Ambassador

666
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: to Algeria and also former Ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford.

667
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: He says, I've seen Israel humiliate previous US administrations, but

668
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: aside from murderous nineteen sixty seven, is really air striking

669
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: against the US Navy ship Liberty. Now forcing USA to

670
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: do air drops of aid to Gazas if USA is

671
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: no better than Egypt and Jordan, is Israel's worst humiliation

672
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: of USA I've ever seen. I should add the USA

673
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: will do humanitarian aid air drops to Gazin's if the

674
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: Israeli Air Force graciously agrees not to shoot down the

675
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: American planes over Gaza. And he goes on to clarify too,

676
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: because someone asked him, what do you better than Egypt

677
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: and Jordan. He's just saying, you know, with regard to

678
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: our position, amount of aid that we fund, you would

679
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: think that we would have a lot more say over

680
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: the situation, but we don't, and so we're reduced to

681
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: this pathetic pr stunt situation.

682
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Robert Ford is a very very credible individual.

683
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: I would definitely look he's somebody that we should be

684
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: listening to on this situation.

685
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, all right, let's talk about the polls.

686
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: Crystal mentioned at the top of the show. Every week

687
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: we've got news that's terrible for Joe Biden. But listen,

688
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: we're not the ones that create the news. Let's go

689
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: and put this up there on the screen. What have

690
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: we got from a brand new New York Times SIENA

691
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 2: poll says, if the twenty twenty four election were held today,

692
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: who would you vote for if the candidates were Joe

693
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: Biden and Donald Trump? Donald Trump at forty eight percent,

694
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: Joe Biden forty three percent, Ten percent say they don't

695
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: know and or refused to answer. But the next one

696
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: really delves into so many of the problems that Biden

697
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: faces with various different groups. If we can please show

698
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: that to everybody. So here's what we've got. You know,

699
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: Trump has a plus four lead amongst men, Trump has

700
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: a plus seven lead. This one actually takes skill. Amongst women,

701
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 2: Trump has plus one lead. That's never happened before, But

702
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was on the ballot. Amongst whites, Trump plus eleven.

703
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: Amongst Hispanics, Trump plus two. Amongst blacks, it says Biden

704
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: plus fifty one. However, Crystal, you know that you know

705
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 2: could be deceiving because you're actually supposed to be leading

706
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: by seventy Amongst Black Americans, You're not supposed to be

707
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: leading by fifty.

708
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 3: I've talked to here before.

709
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: If just ten percent of the black vote goes differently,

710
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: then Republicans would win some three hundred.

711
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: And something votes in the electoral college.

712
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: Now, amongst rural voters, Trump plus thirty two, suburban Biden

713
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: plus three.

714
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: That's a bad number.

715
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: You actually should be winning that by much more urban

716
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 2: voters Biden plus twenty eight. So basically, amongst every demographic subgroup,

717
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 2: Biden is underwater. Where's either underwater or not leading by

718
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 2: the margins that he needs to amongst very critical parts

719
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 2: of the Democratic coalition.

720
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: And this isn't just a single poll that we have here.

721
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: The Wall Street Journal basically can for me these results

722
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: the same day if we can go to the next

723
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: one there please and we can show everyone here. Even

724
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: in a five way race where you've got everybody from

725
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: RFK Junior to Cornell Weston Jill Stein on the ballot,

726
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: Trump is at forty percent, Biden is at thirty five.

727
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 2: So it's becoming clear here that well, Trump will lose

728
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 2: some support, but from the third party candidates RFK Junior

729
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: getting nine percent, Cornell Weston two, and Jill Stein at one,

730
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: a lot of that support crystal is bled from Joe

731
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: Biden at least enough to continue the Trump lead in

732
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 2: a general.

733
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 3: Election that would include all of them there.

734
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 2: And then not to mention, you know, everyone's like, well, RFK,

735
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 2: whether you get the ballot or not, Well, he's already

736
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: on Arizona and Georgia, or at least he has enough

737
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: ballots to get on Arizona and Georgia. That could be enough,

738
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: honestly to swing the entire thing.

739
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 3: That's it. You only need a couple percent.

740
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: It is important to note. I'm sure he's going to

741
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: face all kinds of lasses, so there's no guarantees that

742
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: he'll be on the ballots and even those states, but

743
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: there's no doubt that he's a problem for Joe Biden.

744
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: Jill Stein is likely to be on the ballot in

745
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: basically every state. That's a problem for Joe Biden, even

746
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: if you're talking about one or two percent difference. But

747
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: I mean without them, he's losing easily without them, and

748
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: historically now things may be different, now we don't know,

749
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: but usually Trump support is actually understated. So we've never

750
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: been in a situation, either with Hillary Clinton or with

751
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, where the Democratic candidate was behind Trump. And consistently,

752
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: this isn't just like one poll that's an outlier. It's

753
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: poll after poll after poll that shows Donald Trump beating

754
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. If you dig into more of the numbers

755
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: on that New York Times Siena Pole, what comes out

756
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: is a trend that we've been tracking for a long time,

757
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: which is so called class de alignment, where historically you

758
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: have non wide in particular working class voters going overwhelmingly

759
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: for Democrats, and that's not the case any longer in

760
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: this poll, and that's the place where Joe Biden seems

761
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: to be bleeding the most support. So they say in

762
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: this write up of the New York Times poll that

763
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: mister Biden won seventy two percent of non white, non

764
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: college voters in twenty twenty, providing him with a nearly

765
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: fifty point edge over Trump. Now that edge is down

766
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: to just six points, forty seven percent to forty one percent.

767
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 4: So what was a fifty point edge for.

768
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: Joe Biden and the Democrats among non college, non white

769
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: voters is now down to a six percent edge. To

770
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: be honest with you, Sager, looking at the numbers among

771
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: these different demographic groups, I'm like, how is he even

772
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 1: as close to Trump as he is? That you are

773
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:41,959
Speaker 1: losing women.

774
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 4: To Donald Trump?

775
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

776
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: The modern era of politics has been defined by a

777
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: huge gender gap, with women going significantly towards Democrats and

778
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: men going towards Republicans, not so accordining to this poll. Now, again,

779
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 1: it's not an outlier. Okay, Now maybe some of these

780
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: demographic groups you could say, Okay, well, maybe it's a

781
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 1: small sample size. Other polls showed different a different picture

782
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: with regard to these demographic groups, but especially with regard

783
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: to non white, non college voters. This is a trend

784
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: we've been tracking for a long time, and it spells

785
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: doom for Joe Biden and the Democrats. If this is

786
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: what things actually look like on election Day.

787
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what we could see very clearly is flashing

788
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: warning signs across the entire electorate. Also, I feel like

789
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 2: we've glossed over Hispanics. Trump plus two amongst Hispantics.

790
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: Anybody want to tell me? I mean, this is the

791
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: group where George W.

792
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: Bush was considered the most successful Republican amongst Hispanics because

793
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 2: he won forty percent of the vote of the Hispanic

794
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 2: vote in the year two thousand. It had never topped

795
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 2: really that roughly. Trump came within thirty some percent, including

796
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: the South Texas like Laredo Swing, but for him to

797
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 2: actually get now it seems fifty at the very least.

798
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: What I have seen is that the vast majority of

799
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: this number is likely Hispanic men, and this actually tracks

800
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: across all male groups, both black and Hispanic. Is that

801
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: you're not only seeing class D alignment unfortunately, and I

802
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 2: did a whole monologue on this, You're actually seeing a

803
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: lot of gender de alignment as well, where a lot

804
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 2: of men are starting to vote Republican or at least

805
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: identifying more with the right, and then women identify more

806
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: with the left. Now we're going to show you though,

807
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: some of the cope. So here, let's put this up

808
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: on the screen. We have Obama's former campaign manager, Jim Messina.

809
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 2: He says NYT chases headlines while ignoring what's happening. Trump

810
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 2: consistently underperforms and Biden overperforms in primaries in New Hampshire,

811
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 2: Trump seven points worst poll than a result in South

812
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 2: Carolina minus eight, Michigan minus ten. Best predictor of elections

813
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 2: equals howe voters vote, and they are voting for Dems

814
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 2: and for Biden. Well, here's what he forgets, folks. Primary

815
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 2: voters are not general election voters.

816
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 3: Number one.

817
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 2: Now, he's not wrong that it's not something to look at,

818
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 2: but that is not in any way, as I understand

819
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 2: at Crystal, primary voter turnout is not a good predictor

820
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: at all of eventual general election. And in fact, the

821
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: smart point that he would have made is not about this.

822
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 2: It would be about all the slew of special elections

823
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: in the midterms that we have because really that's the

824
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: only thing saving them. Well, the only thing saving them

825
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: is that the polls are totally wrong. In twenty twenty two,

826
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: every special election Democrats have overperformed and that's it. So

827
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: just don't believe them. I mean, that's a tough sell,

828
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: you know, given what we have here. But they have

829
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: a point. We know, we'll be stupid not to they

830
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: would be stupid to discount it. Yeah, but this this

831
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 2: is ridiculous, you know, whatever this nonsense is.

832
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, put the next one up on the screen.

833
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 1: There's actually a response to him from another Obama era person,

834
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: Jon Favreau here Podza Bro. He says, why is words

835
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: from Dan Pfeiffer, another Podza bro. Instead of dismissing the polls,

836
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: we should embrace the idea Trump can win this election

837
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: and then use that frightening notion to re energize the

838
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: anti Maga majority that delivered victories in eighteen, nineteen, twenty two,

839
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: twenty two, and twenty three. Telling people what they want

840
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: to hear may be satisfying in the short term, but

841
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: it rarely works out. So they're saying, like jiu jitsu,

842
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: move use the fact that we're down in the polls

843
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: actually as motivator. And you actually had on Morning Joe

844
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 1: another one in one of Biden's favorite programs, apparently distressingly,

845
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: you had Donnie Deutsch saying, basically, the way Democrats need

846
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: to go about trying to win is by scaring the

847
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: hell out of people about Donald Trump effectively. And that's

848
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: really the only thing they ever tried to do, right.

849
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: They don't try to offer people anything, they don't try

850
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: to really make an affirmative case. They are still banking

851
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: on going back to that same old, same old playbook

852
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: of yes, but Trump. So you may be pissed off

853
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: about X and Y and Z, but Trump, so you

854
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: got to stick with us, and you got to vote

855
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: for us. And I mean, yeah, work for them in

856
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. It worked for them in twenty twenty

857
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: well enough, but those margins have been very thin, and

858
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: these polls, you cannot look at them and not think

859
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: that they have a very, very big problem on their hands.

860
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

861
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so obvious whenever you see it.

862
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: And I think, I think think a lot of what

863
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: flashes as well, Crystal is Biden's age is just such

864
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 2: an intense like it is such an intense factor for

865
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: so many voters, and it's one of those where the

866
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: media and is forced to cover it every once in

867
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: a while, whenever the Special Council is like, he didn't

868
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: remember when his own son died in an interview.

869
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 3: And then he's like, well, how did that? Dare he

870
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 3: bring that up?

871
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: And then they're like, well, according to the transcript, you

872
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: brought it up, sir, and then you weren't able to

873
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 2: remember it.

874
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 3: It's unfixable.

875
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: And so when you have an unfixable, glaring problem which

876
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: everybody on earth, you know, can understand and empathize with

877
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: the voter as to why they wouldn't want to vote

878
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 2: for him, I mean, don't I look at that. I'm like,

879
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: Jesus Man needs to go immediately. I can't imagine in

880
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: there for another four years. But then you add on

881
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: all of the attendant chaos of Israel, the economy. I mean,

882
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 2: there's you know, immigration, Like if we look at the

883
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,439
Speaker 2: issue by issue polling, immigration is his lowest approval rating,

884
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: Gaza's number two actual, and then.

885
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 3: The economy number three.

886
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: Each of those are so highly determinative for the way

887
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: that both independence and others who very rarely vote, who

888
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 2: may not come out to vote, may find it to

889
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: themselves they're simply unable to vote for you, and then age,

890
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 2: I think, just pushes you over the edge. So there's major,

891
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: major warning signs here, and especially if you're thing with

892
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: two with Trump. As we covered today or as we

893
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 2: covered in our last show, Trump has now successfully pushed

894
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: the vast majority of his trial dates either very close

895
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: to the reduction date or possibly.

896
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: After the election day.

897
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: So the worst issue for him may actually not even

898
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: come before people actually cast vote. So combine those two factors,

899
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: things are looking good right now for Trump.

900
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: Let me also say one thing about immigration, because they

901
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: had their dueling border visits last week, and Joe Biden

902
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: was like, I call on Donald Trump to work with

903
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: me on a bipartisan border security bill. And it's like,

904
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: you're whole putting the morality of the side that you

905
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: guys can go back and watch that Ris debate on immigration,

906
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: and if you're hungry for that content at the moment,

907
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: I don't have the energy. But your whole case is

908
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: supposed to be that Trump is so awful that we

909
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: cannot have another four years of that. And core to

910
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: that case from Democrats has always been about his basically

911
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: fascism at the border. And now you're like, you know what,

912
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: we're going to compete with him. We want to work

913
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: with him on the fascism at the border, and you know,

914
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: we also want to like keep the kids in cages.

915
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: And we're just as horrible and cruel as the Republicans.

916
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: It's like, what kind of and they think this is

917
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: some kind of an own Like, no, you have just

918
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: accepted the entire Republican messaging around immigration, and so how

919
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: are you supposed to you know, your whole tactic is

920
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 1: like to scare people.

921
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 4: About Johnald Trump.

922
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: And I think there are some legitimate things, by the way,

923
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: to be scared about about a second Trump term. But

924
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: on one of the issues that he was the most extreme,

925
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: the most aggressive about, you're going to just go ahead

926
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: and accept his case and reach out a hand to

927
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 1: work with him on implementing those policies. It makes no

928
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: sense to me whatsoever. And so, you know, to me,

929
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: yet another political fail. And as you were just alluding to, Sager,

930
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: the problems for the Democratic Party and for Joe Biden

931
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: go so far beyond any one demographic group, and in fact,

932
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: some of the biggest issues are with their own base,

933
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: which we're going to show you in a minute, that

934
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: they're apparently terrified of even setting foot on a freaking

935
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: college campus because of Israel protests, which you know, you

936
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: have a lot of not just young people, but a

937
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: lot of people who are saying, you know, morally, I

938
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: just I think that this is a genocide, and morally,

939
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: I just cannot pull the lever for someone who I

940
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: believe is funding and supporting a genocide that's happening right

941
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: now in front of my eyes on social media.

942
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,439
Speaker 2: Well let's go to that part then, and the Wall

943
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 2: Street Journal helpfully actually dug into some of this, So

944
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and put this up there please on

945
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: the screen. What you can see there in front of

946
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: you is that this is amongst the vast majority of voters.

947
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: So it says, do you think Israel's actions in the

948
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: Gaza strip in response to October seven have gone too far,

949
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 2: not gone far enough, or been about right? Forty two

950
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 2: percent say gone too far, so that's a plurality. Twenty

951
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 2: four percent say been about right? Not gone far enough

952
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: is nineteen percent, and don't know and or refuse is

953
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 2: fifteen percent. But a pretty clear you know, plurality there,

954
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: which is saying that they said, gone too far. Let's

955
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,479
Speaker 2: go to the next slide please, because this is where

956
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 2: you can actually see something very interesting too. It says,

957
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: when you think about the war between Israel and Hamas,

958
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 2: do you think that the US is doing too much,

959
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: too little, or about the right amount to support the

960
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 2: Israeli people or in the Palestinian people. So amongst the

961
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 2: amount of people who say who are asked that question

962
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 2: about Israeli people, now thirty percent of the electorate is

963
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: saying that actually the US is doing too much to

964
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: support the Israeli people, twenty five percent say too little,

965
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 2: thirty two percent say about the right amount, So a

966
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 2: significant eight percent increase since December of twenty twenty three.

967
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 2: Whenever you're asked or you're doing too much or too little.

968
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 2: Now when you flip it, you can see the exact

969
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: same rise in the amount of people who now say

970
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: that the US is doing too little to support the

971
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: Palestinian people. Only twenty four percent say that they are

972
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 2: doing too much, but thirty three percent say too little,

973
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 2: twenty five percent say that they are doing about the

974
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 2: right amount, And then the don't know number is roughly

975
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: you know, seventeen fifteen percent or whatever across both demographics.

976
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: I think when you combine those two things, you can

977
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: see a clear trend line. And furthermore, as we have

978
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: covered here, if you see and just to the next.

979
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 3: One, just because I can show everyone.

980
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 2: Again is that Gaza is now is number two most

981
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 2: unpopular issue, which is crazy whenever you consider it against inflation,

982
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 2: economy and Ukraine.

983
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 3: Somehow forty six percent approval rating on Ukraine.

984
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 2: I would love to meet and to talk to those people,

985
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: especially if you're into the Gaza thing.

986
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 3: You should watch someone.

987
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 4: It's actually one of the tiest of proofer ratings on

988
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 4: any issue.

989
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: Please don't get me started on Yeah, the people who

990
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: the people who consume are Gaza content should also con

991
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 2: see words our content that said what we what we

992
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: could show people here is that electorally, this is a

993
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: major major problem and what you alluded to in particular

994
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 2: on the campuses is one where it is actually significantly

995
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: curtailing his ability to go out and to campaign. So

996
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 2: we have a clip here just to show you what

997
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: is facing you know, the Bidens as they crossed the country.

998
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 2: Jill Biden was actually at an event in Arizona, where

999
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 2: she was interrupted by a ceasefire protester. Here's what happened.

1000
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 2: So that's what's awaiting Biden on college campuses. And Crystal,

1001
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: you flagged this report which you can put up there

1002
00:48:59,320 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: and you could react.

1003
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 3: Is quote how.

1004
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: Biden aids are trying to shield the president for protests

1005
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: where Democratic President Crystal is unable to go on college campuses.

1006
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 4: Incredible.

1007
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,959
Speaker 1: So they say they're taking increasingly extraordinary steps to minimize

1008
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: disruptions from pro Palestinian protests at his events. They're making

1009
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: them smaller, they're withholding their precise locations, and they're avoiding

1010
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: college campuses altogether. A Democratic president cannot go to college campuses.

1011
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 4: Think about that. What that means in terms of the.

1012
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: Modern democratic base and coalition that they rely upon. They

1013
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 1: cannot set foot on college campuses in an at least

1014
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: one instance, considering hiring a private company to vet attendees.

1015
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: Now that specific report is with regard to this big

1016
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: fundraiser they have planned that's going to be Biden, Clinton,

1017
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: and Obama. It's on March twenty eighth in New York City.

1018
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: Just for anyone who lives in New York City. By

1019
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: the way, expectations are that it's going to be at

1020
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: Radio City Music Hall, but they have not actually released

1021
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: that information for exactly this reason.

1022
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 4: They've also upped the t ticket.

1023
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: Price to try to price out any potential protesters, any

1024
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: potential riff raff that might come in with ideas about,

1025
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: you know, standing up and protesting. They say that a

1026
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: turning point in their thinking was Biden gave a speech

1027
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: in Virginia that was interrupted multiple times with protests. So

1028
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: they are so terrified of their own base that they

1029
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: basically can't campaign.

1030
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 4: I mean, that's the reality of what.

1031
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: They can't do big rallies, they can't do big events,

1032
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: they can't go to college campus as Kamwa Harris was

1033
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: supposed to do some big college campus tour that was

1034
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: postponed or canceled or whatever, because they're so fearful of

1035
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: having to actually face these people who have huge issues

1036
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: with their policy visa the Israel face to face. I

1037
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: also found this line sober in this report, just incredibly sad,

1038
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: and I have to note it here. They say the

1039
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 1: moderator of that discussion with the three presidents is going

1040
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: to be late night host Stephen Colbert, whom the campaign

1041
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: sees as a low risk friendly choice, the people familiar

1042
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: with the planning set.

1043
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 3: How do you agree to do that? Think somebody leaks that.

1044
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 1: Think of how far that man has fallen. Yeah, remember

1045
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: the White House correspondent. I mean he handed George W.

1046
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: Bush his ass while he was sitting right there over

1047
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 1: the Iraq war. And now you're being hand picked because

1048
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: you're a low risk friendly choice.

1049
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 4: That is so sad.

1050
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: I cannot, as someone who used to love the Colbert rapport,

1051
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: that is like the saddest fall I can possibly imagine.

1052
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 4: So that's where we are.

1053
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: But I wanted to highlight one other thing from the polls,

1054
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: especially the polling we put up earlier from the Wall

1055
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: Street Journal about Israel. Basically, young people in the Democratic

1056
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: Coalition have won the argument in the Democratic Party about Israel.

1057
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: They found that there is no longer much of an

1058
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: age gap in the Democratic base with regards to how

1059
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: they view Israel and their conduct in the Gaza strip.

1060
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: Some forty percent of Democrats under age forty said the

1061
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: US was doing too much to help the Israeli people,

1062
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: compared with thirty three percent of Democrats age forty and older,

1063
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: so a seven point difference. But back in December that

1064
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: gap was twenty four points. Maybe even more telling, among

1065
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,280
Speaker 1: Democrats age forty and older, seventy one percent said Israel

1066
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 1: had gone too far in responding to Hamas. That is

1067
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: identical to the share of Democrats under age forty. So

1068
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, originally the Biden view was like, oh, none

1069
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 1: of this is going to matter. People going to get

1070
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: over a by election day. Then the view was, well,

1071
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: we're going to have to find some suburban women to

1072
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: overcome the Arab American opposition in the state of Michigan.

1073
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 1: Now that Kpe is like, well, it's just Arab Americans,

1074
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: Muslim Americans, and young people, which is kind of large

1075
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: part of your base. But it becomes really clear when

1076
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: you look at these numbers that the problem is way

1077
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: bigger than one demographic group. And that was reflected in

1078
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: the uncommitted vote, which yes, was strongest in Arab American

1079
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: areas and in college towns, but there was a significant

1080
00:52:55,760 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: uncommitted vote across the entire state of Michigan. So well,

1081
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: they've got huge issues on their hands. And that's why,

1082
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, to tie it back into what we were

1083
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: talking about with regards to the airdrops and Kamala Harris's comments,

1084
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 1: and her meeting with Benny Ganson whatever. That's why they

1085
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,479
Speaker 1: are trying so aggressively to change their posture and their

1086
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: framing of this issue, even as again they are wholly

1087
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: unwilling to actually change the policy, which is clearly the

1088
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 1: thing that needs to happen in order to move any

1089
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: of these numbers.

1090
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 2: Very likely and we will see some of those results

1091
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: on Super Tuesday. That's a good transition to the next part.

1092
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: Let's go and put this up there on the screen.

1093
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 2: Super Tuesday is tomorrow, what is it? Who is voting?

1094
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 2: So we actually have a very useful map that we

1095
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 2: have right there in front of you. We've got Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Virginia,

1096
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 2: North Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Colorado, Utah, and California.

1097
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: And so of course California is the prize possession in

1098
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 2: that primary because they have the most amount of delegates.

1099
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: Texas is going to be number two there. This is

1100
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: where you know, between Trump and Biden, I think we

1101
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 2: all know who is going to win. So the real

1102
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 2: questions about what's going to happen underneath that is the

1103
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 2: strength of the Nikki Haley vote.

1104
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:13,479
Speaker 3: I did want to give everybody an update.

1105
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: Crystal Nikki Haley did make history yesterday here in Washington,

1106
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 2: d C. She is the first GOP woman to ever

1107
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 2: win a contest with two thousand votes and sixty percent

1108
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 2: of the DC vote. Her campaign, with all seriousness, said

1109
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: that it showed that those who worked.

1110
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 3: Closely with Trump in Washington, d C are the ones

1111
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 3: who rejected it.

1112
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 4: That's hilarious.

1113
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's nick is.

1114
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 4: Like two perfect.

1115
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 3: I saw it.

1116
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 2: I saw I saw a lot of Nikky signs on

1117
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: my driving to Washington this morning, and I just kept thinking,

1118
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 2: how in all good conscience can you think that this

1119
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 2: is in any way electorally beneficial to you. So the

1120
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 2: one contest which she will likely win in this entire

1121
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: thing is Washington, d C. Not her home state, you know,

1122
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: traditionally something you want to do when you're a politician.

1123
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 3: So we're going to see what the Nikki in all this.

1124
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: I'm really curious actually to watch it in the most

1125
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: populous states, places like Texas, places like California, not just

1126
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 2: in terms of the delegates that she's going to get,

1127
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 2: but that's a good test for what the national popular

1128
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 2: vote maybe, you know, whenever it comes to Trump, and

1129
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 2: in places where everybody assumes Trump is going to win

1130
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 2: weather and wise, people would want to cast an anti

1131
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 2: Trump vote within the Republican Party. Let's I'm curious on

1132
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 2: that the second part is uncommitted, which you have flagged here.

1133
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 2: We actually have a very useful map that we can

1134
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 2: put here up on the screen.

1135
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 3: This was how do we pronounce this, gentleman.

1136
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: I've been saying at injermentum and go.

1137
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 2: On momentum as we understand that he's an anonymous poster

1138
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 2: on Twitter.

1139
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 3: But he's actually very good.

1140
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: He is worth the follow He does very good job

1141
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,439
Speaker 2: in terms of compiling polling results and maps and such things.

1142
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 2: This is from his substack. What you can see is

1143
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 2: actually in front of you are the various ways that

1144
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 2: uncommitted works. So in some of the states you can

1145
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 2: vote uncommitted, and some you can vote uncommitted, but are

1146
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 2: all writing votes are counted. Some you cannot vote uncommitted,

1147
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 2: but blank ballots are counted, and some you can't vote uncommitted.

1148
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: You have only ride ins, but only right INDs that

1149
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 2: are qualified candidates count. And in some you can't vote

1150
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 2: uncommitted rite ins and are not provided. Some there are

1151
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 2: no primary, and some have already voted, so as you

1152
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 2: can see in front of you. If you are interested,

1153
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 2: you can just take a screenshot or something of this

1154
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 2: and see which state you're actually in. But yeah, I'm

1155
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: always reminded of how insane the sometimes the US electoral

1156
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 2: system is and various different states and how they run

1157
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 2: certain things. I remember I was asking you on the phone.

1158
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: I was like, Hey, can I vote? I'm not sure

1159
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 2: if I'm registered in a party. You're like, oh, we

1160
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: don't do that here, And I'm.

1161
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 4: Like, what, like, what crazy states some of those states?

1162
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's good, you know, in prison. I

1163
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 3: don't know, it's just like I do.

1164
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm kind of in favor of having some like more

1165
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 1: federal standardization of whatever.

1166
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 4: We'll save that for another day.

1167
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: Actually, put that map just back upon the scare. I

1168
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: want to flag a couple of states here to keep

1169
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 1: an eye on. Unfortunately, our state of Virginia saga. You

1170
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: cannot vote uncommittee, uncommitted. They do have right ins, but

1171
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: they only count right ins for quote unquote qualified candidates,

1172
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: which is such a bullshit.

1173
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 3: How does that work?

1174
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 10: Right?

1175
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: It's not so obnoxious, but you have, among other super

1176
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: Tuesday states. You know, a lot of eyes are going

1177
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: to be on Minnesota, which has a significant Muslim population

1178
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: and where there has been some organizing with regard to uncommitted,

1179
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: and you can vote uncommitted in the state of Michigan.

1180
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 4: Of Minnesota.

1181
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: The other state, uh that kind of jumped down at

1182
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: me is Colorado, which obviously has you know, significant young

1183
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: a lot of college towns, activist space. That's another place

1184
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: where you can vote uncommitted, So that is noteworthy as well.

1185
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: Vermont is another one I would pay attention to, you know,

1186
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: being a great hippie state that I love. You cannot

1187
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: vote uncommitted, but all write in votes are counted, so

1188
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: there may be some sort of a write in effort there.

1189
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: I could see something like I never would have expected.

1190
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: Also highlighted actually by an injurormentum this morning, which is

1191
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 1: one of the Indivisible chapters in Colorado, is backing the

1192
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: uncommitted vote. And if I don't know, if you guys

1193
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: know anything about indivisible.

1194
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is.

1195
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 4: It's like the.

1196
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: Most like lib Trump era resistance.

1197
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 4: Organization move on to UK sort of like that.

1198
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so for them to be backing uncommitted was

1199
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: kind of noteworthy. It's gone very like lib mainstream for

1200
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: them to be backing, which I thought was interesting.

1201
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 2: Got it well across the pond. Our friends in the

1202
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 2: UK also had an interesting election. Let's go and put

1203
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. George Galloway, who some

1204
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 2: of you may know as longtime anti war activist, is

1205
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 2: going to be back in Parliament after basically running a

1206
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 2: campaign for his seat all on Gaza and on protests

1207
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 2: of Rishi Sunak's policy of supporting Israel. So he will

1208
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 2: be taking his common seat for the Workers Party of

1209
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 2: Britain after pulling some twelve three and thirty five votes,

1210
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 2: more than six thousand votes than any other candidate in

1211
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: the race, so that's pretty extraordinary. He was previously a

1212
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 2: Labor MP up until two thousand and three as an independent,

1213
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 2: then for kids situations between two thousand and three and

1214
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. But he really has made a name for

1215
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 2: himself both there and you know even here in various

1216
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 2: US Western programs as being a very consistent force against.

1217
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 3: Iraq war, the US and Britaish involvement.

1218
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: And now against Western policy in Israel, so into Ukraine.

1219
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 2: On Ukraine as well, it's an important signal. I mean

1220
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 2: you should remember too. You know, across the pond things

1221
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 2: work very differently. Europeans have always their governments may be

1222
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 2: sporting Israel right now, but their populations have been way

1223
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 2: more israel skeptic. And I'm not just talking about the

1224
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 2: Islamic population in Europe, like the overall Western European population

1225
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 2: has been far more skeptical of the Israeli government, specifically

1226
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 2: on bds and on settlements for decades, longer than any

1227
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 2: even nascent left movement here in the United States. We

1228
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 2: have a fascinating interview with mister Galloway actually on Sky News,

1229
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 2: where he really gave it back to his interviewer.

1230
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

1231
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 11: The Prime Minister is saying, God, we're talking about little

1232
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 11: Rishi Sunak in the fag end of his prime ministership.

1233
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 11: Don't talk to me as if he's come down from

1234
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 11: the mount with tablets of stone. The things that he

1235
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 11: says are somehow meant to oh me. They may owe you,

1236
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 11: they don't owe me.

1237
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 12: A lot of people have just watched what the Prime

1238
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 12: Minister said. This is your opportunity to respond to what

1239
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 12: he said. Well, he says that there are forces here

1240
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 12: at home trying to tear us apart. He is implying

1241
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 12: youre a divisive figure.

1242
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:39,919
Speaker 13: You have run an.

1243
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 12: Election campaign that has tried to appeal particularly and not

1244
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 12: entirely to one section of the.

1245
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 11: Community on the election. Me or Rishi, I've got the

1246
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 11: democratic mandate here, not Rischia. He didn't even come second.

1247
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 11: He was lucky to come third. So don't put to

1248
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 11: me statements made by Rushi Suna, because if I'm supposed

1249
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 11: to be impressed by them, you don't impress me much.

1250
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 12: We Itt Skuy has spent some time today on the

1251
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 12: streets of Rochdale and there are people who say that

1252
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 12: they feel intimidated by people like you and the people

1253
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 12: that have supported you. You have and they have pointed

1254
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 12: out that you have concentrated your campaign on foreign affairs

1255
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 12: and they worry that Rochdale will not be the wind Act.

1256
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 11: That's my answer to you. I was just elected with

1257
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 11: a thumping majority by the electorate in Rochdale. That's all

1258
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 11: that matters to me.

1259
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's right, and you know, like I said, he

1260
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 2: won forty of the vote. As he pointed to the

1261
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 2: Conservative Party, only one twelve percent of the vote. Yeah,

1262
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 2: but yeah, he's like I love a good British shitster politician.

1263
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 2: There's just nothing better than So I'm going to enjoy

1264
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 2: seeing him in the House of Sorry, in the House

1265
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 2: of Comments.

1266
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 3: Yeah he will. He will definitely make a name it.

1267
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1268
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: Just to give a little bit of background on this election,

1269
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: and to be perfectly honest with you, I don't know

1270
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: who this person was before this moment of looked at policies,

1271
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: will just call them very heterodox. But he ran this.

1272
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: I mean, what's significant about this campaign is he really

1273
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: did lean into Israel Gaza and also that this seat

1274
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: that he's won isn't you know the largest Muslim area

1275
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: that you know is that is in this region. So

1276
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: they have about thirty percent Muslim population in Rochdale, so significant,

1277
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: but it's far from a majority.

1278
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 4: The other thing that.

1279
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: Is noteworthy here the labor candidate, and this is an

1280
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: area that usually goes for labor. The labor candidate was

1281
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 1: forced to drop out because of some what I would

1282
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 1: say were genuinely anti Semitic comments, and so he was

1283
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: forced down and so you had kind.

1284
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 4: Of this like vacuum situation.

1285
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,479
Speaker 1: But the reason I thought it was noteworthy is both

1286
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: because this guy is obviously quite a character. In that

1287
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: interview was hilarious and I love how they're freaking out about,

1288
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, the workings of democracy where he got more

1289
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: votes than Labor and the two worries combined, by the way,

1290
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: But the other thing is, yeah, it is a signal

1291
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 1: of not that these things are all parallel, but it

1292
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 1: is a signal of how much electoral power, how much

1293
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 1: care and concern there is for this issue, and a

1294
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: lot of times, you know, some of the politics here

1295
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: are reflective of what is going on in the UK.

1296
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: So that's part of why I thought it was noteworthy,

1297
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: especially going into Super Tuesday with the possibility of more

1298
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: uncommitted votes. I think politicians who have underestimated the amount

1299
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: of emotion and concern about these policies of unconditional support,

1300
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: I think that they have you know, made obviously they've

1301
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,479
Speaker 1: made a moral mistake, but in terms of their own

1302
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: political prospects, I also think they have made a dire mistake.

1303
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 1: And it's very clear with regards to the poll of

1304
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: the Democratic base they do not agree with Joe Biden

1305
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: on his unconditional support of Israel, and I don't think

1306
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: his little pr aid drop or sending Kamala out to

1307
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: say the words cease fire, even as what they're really

1308
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: talking about is what they used to be calling a

1309
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: quote unquote humanitarian pause.

1310
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 4: I don't think that's going to fix the problem for them.

1311
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we'll watch with great interests.

1312
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 2: Oh I should have said this on Counterpoints Wednesday morning.

1313
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 2: We will both be on the show to break down

1314
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 2: Super Tuesday results, especially because California is going to be

1315
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 2: such an impactful part of it, and the polls don't

1316
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 2: close there until most of our viewership here on the

1317
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 2: East Coast, including us, will have want gone to bed,

1318
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 2: So we will break it down for you early Eastern time.

1319
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 2: That way will be breaking for you, right whenever you

1320
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 2: wake up with bright and shiny in the morning with

1321
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: those results, we're.

1322
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 4: Early to bed people.

1323
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, guys, sorry, we will stay a plate within reason.

1324
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 2: Okay, California is not reasonable, by the way, daylight savings

1325
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 2: time is soon, so expector rant coming to you very quickly.

1326
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:40,919
Speaker 3: Let's go to the media park.

1327
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely so.

1328
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to highlight for you guys a really significant

1329
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: monologue from CNN's for reied Zakaria. Part of why this

1330
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: is noteworthy Is because remember that previous report had come

1331
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: out listing who Joe Biden's favorite like news personalities were.

1332
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: One of them was Forreied Zakaria, and he breaks him

1333
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: across the coals for his Israel policy.

1334
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to a little bit of that.

1335
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 10: When Hamas launched its gruesome terror attack on Israel on

1336
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 10: October seventh of last year, President Biden made a decision

1337
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 10: based on conviction and calculation. He announced his complete solidarity

1338
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 10: with the country. Biden must have calculated that the only

1339
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 10: way to have any influence on Israel would be to

1340
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 10: hug it close, show real empathy, sended the arms it needed,

1341
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 10: and thus earn Israel's trust to shape its response. It

1342
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 10: was a thought through strategy, but it has failed almost completely.

1343
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 10: From the start, the administration urged the Israelis to consider

1344
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 10: proportionality in their response to Hamas. Israel heard it and

1345
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 10: went ahead with one of the most extensive bombing campaigns

1346
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 10: in this century against a population of about two point

1347
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 10: two million people that, by Israel's own estimates, contained about

1348
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 10: thirty thousand Hamas. Means, by one January estimate, more than

1349
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 10: half of buildings across Gaza have been damaged or destroyed.

1350
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 10: The administration counciled Israel against a large ground invasion of Gaza,

1351
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,960
Speaker 10: advising it to take a narrower targeted approach aimed at

1352
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 10: eliminating Hamas, militants, and infrastructure. The Israeli government had lots

1353
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,439
Speaker 10: of long meetings with US officials and then again went

1354
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 10: ahead with the ground invasion. The Biden team urged a

1355
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 10: humanitarian pause, but only got a brief one when it

1356
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 10: was able to get the government of Kata to broker

1357
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 10: a hostage exchange. After initial operations wound up. American officials

1358
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 10: told Israeli officials that what was done in the north

1359
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 10: of Gaza could not be done to the south. Yet,

1360
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 10: after telling people to move to the south to get

1361
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 10: out of harm's way, Israel then proceeded to bomb the

1362
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 10: south in a manner that President Biden himself admitted is indiscriminate.

1363
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 10: The US has repeatedly pressured Israel to make greater efforts

1364
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 10: to protect innocent civilians, but to little avail. Now it

1365
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 10: has been counseling against an invasion of Raffa, the city

1366
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 10: nestled close to Egypt, where over a million Palestinians have

1367
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 10: huddled together. Prime Minister Benjamin Natania, who has promised to

1368
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 10: invade Rafa whether another hostage deal is made or not.

1369
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 10: Washington has warned that after the war there should be

1370
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 10: no Israeli seizure of land in Gaza and no new

1371
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 10: Israeli occupation of the territory. The Israeli government's plans are

1372
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 10: to do both. The result is that American policy on

1373
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 10: the Gaza War now appears hapless, ineffective, and immoral.

1374
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: So he says that the Biden policy on the Gaza

1375
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: War has been hapless, ineffective and immoral. Sager, I don't

1376
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: have to tell you how unusual it is to hear

1377
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: those sorts of things on CNN, which we're going to cover,

1378
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: the level of propaganda on CNN, and the amount of

1379
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 1: internal pushback and upset about the double standards with regard

1380
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: to Israel and the Palestinians. But the fact that one

1381
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: of Biden's favorite commentators took such an aggressive approach, and

1382
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 1: I think lays out pretty aptly looking back over the

1383
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 1: course of this war, how when we meekly ask for

1384
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: something at every turn, Israel has been like, no, screw you.

1385
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: He puts it all in context pretty well.

1386
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 2: One of the things I hate about Biden is that

1387
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 2: he doesn't have a coherent worldview. He kind of just

1388
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 2: trusts his instincts, and he's very obstinate regardless of what

1389
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 2: he chooses. Sometimes it works in my benefit, like Afghanistan

1390
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: on Ukraine, doesn't necessarily work to our benefit on Israel.

1391
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 3: I think it's the same thing. One of the things.

1392
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 2: Well, look, I disagree vehemently with the worldview of Fared

1393
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 2: Zakaria and of Thomas Friedman, but you have to hand

1394
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 2: it to them.

1395
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 3: They are genuinely.

1396
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 2: Consistent, like in terms of the way that they view

1397
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,639
Speaker 2: the world, and so within their framework, which is probably

1398
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 2: most aligned with Biden, I think it is clearly noteworthy

1399
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 2: what they are saying. I couldn't help but think also

1400
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 2: of one of Biden's favorite calmness Thomas Friedman, and actually,

1401
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 2: we have this, we can put it up there on

1402
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 2: the screen. He wrote it just a couple of days ago,

1403
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 2: on February twenty seventh, where he writes Israel is losing

1404
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 2: its greatest asset, which is acceptance, and he writes, quote,

1405
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 2: I do not think Israelis or the Biden administration fully

1406
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,879
Speaker 2: appreciate the rage that is bubbling around the world, fueled

1407
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 2: by social media and TV footage over the deaths of

1408
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 2: thousands of Palestinian civilians with US supplied weapons in Israel's

1409
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 2: war on Gaza. Hamas has much to answer for in

1410
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 2: triggering this human tragedy, but Israel and the US are

1411
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 2: seen as driving events now and getting most of the blame.

1412
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 2: That such anger is boiling over in the Arab world

1413
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 2: is obvious, but I heard it over and over again

1414
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 2: in conversations in India from the past week. That is

1415
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 2: even more telling because the Hindu dominated government of Prime

1416
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 2: Minister Modi is the only major power in the global

1417
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 2: support that has even supported Israel and blamed Hamas. That

1418
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 2: many civilian debts in a relatively short war would be

1419
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 2: problematic in any context. The point though, that I think

1420
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 2: of what he is sharing showing within this is that

1421
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 2: it is not just the Arab world, where, to be fair,

1422
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 2: he did write the column from so that probably is

1423
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 2: going to change a little bit of his outlook. More so,

1424
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 2: it's what I think I've brought this up in you

1425
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 2: as well, in the context of a lot of this

1426
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 2: is guys, regardless of whether you support the war or not,

1427
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 2: you know, rhetorically, Israel will not be the same as

1428
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,719
Speaker 2: a nation in terms of its sovereign relations with others.

1429
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 2: I think that was a huge mistake because it's a

1430
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 2: tiny little strip of land that relies on global trade

1431
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 2: to keep it afloat. You know, you can't have a

1432
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 2: high tech nation and tell of even startup and all

1433
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 2: that in the desert if you got nobody to sell

1434
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 2: it to, especially when you're in a country with what

1435
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 2: like the population of eleven million. It just doesn't work,

1436
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 2: especially also when you have to import a decent amount

1437
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 2: of labor from the people who now hate you even

1438
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 2: more to run, you know, to clean your toilets or whatever.

1439
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 2: I mean, this is all a very precarious situation that

1440
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 2: they're already sitting on. And the point of his column,

1441
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 2: and I think of Farid as well, is to show

1442
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 2: that the international acceptance where people were like were unhappy

1443
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 2: with Israel, even in the Arab world.

1444
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 3: But we're not idiots.

1445
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:59,280
Speaker 2: We could see the abraham A core as in normalization

1446
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 2: there is going in different directions.

1447
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 3: Very selfish.

1448
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 2: They've changed things completely, right, Things are more like the

1449
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three consensus today than ever you know since

1450
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 2: that time period, and that's a cute strategic catastrophe. That's

1451
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 2: something that Israel worked decades to try and get away from.

1452
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 2: And I think this has made them a lot less safe,

1453
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 2: and also the US too by aligning ourselves with it,

1454
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 2: we always know how to pick them right and to

1455
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 2: make sure that people are aligned against us in a

1456
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 2: region too, where we were trying our best, at least

1457
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 2: allegedly to get out of because it wasn't all that

1458
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,679
Speaker 2: strategically important to us, and which keep just getting pulled

1459
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 2: back in.

1460
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:34,919
Speaker 3: By our over and over again, by our mistakes.

1461
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1462
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 2: So I think overall has been an absolute strategic disaster.

1463
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: I mean, think about Biden has lost indivisible chapters, unbelievable,

1464
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 1: like the backbone of the lib resistance.

1465
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 4: He's lost.

1466
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 1: For Reed Zakaria, he's lost, Thomas Friedman lost. There was

1467
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if you watched this interview that Bernie

1468
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 1: Sanders did with Alex Wagner, which I mean there were

1469
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: some issues there, but this is m thes NBC, you know,

1470
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: Primetime NBC and Alex Wagner saying this policy of shipping

1471
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,599
Speaker 1: bombs and then dropping this pittle bit of aid is

1472
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: in it. You can't reconcile it. It's irreconcilable. Yeah, so

1473
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 1: the fact that you have you know that much like

1474
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: across the board, mainstream liberal criticism is really something. And

1475
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: I do think that's why they're trying to what do

1476
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: they say, put lipstick on a pig. They are trying

1477
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: to change the image of their approach to this conflict.

1478
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: That's why they're sending out Kamala Harris to talk about

1479
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: the immense suffering of Palestinians and to call for this

1480
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: immediate cease fire. Of course it'll only be temper and

1481
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: then we'll get right back to the killing. But that's

1482
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 1: why they're trying to change the image. And you know,

1483
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 1: for the once again, what really needs to change is

1484
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 1: the actual policy here, although you know it's it's not

1485
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 1: beyond people like Thomas Friedman to get tricked by just

1486
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: like the new packaging.

1487
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 4: Put on the policy. So we'll see.

1488
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: But you know, to your point about Israel, they are

1489
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: plus placing a huge bet and this is basically, you know,

1490
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: because both for ideological reasons, but also because he wants

1491
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: to keep this war going so he can you know,

1492
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 1: hopefully hang onto power by his fingertips. That's what his

1493
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 1: what his plan is. They're placing a huge bet that

1494
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 1: they can get away with a complete you know, modern

1495
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: day ethnic cleansing, colonization, annihilation that we're all watching in

1496
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 1: real time, and that they will be able to get

1497
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 1: away with it. That's what they're betting on. We can

1498
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: all see the images. We can see what's happening. We

1499
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 1: can see the massacres, we can see the destruction. We

1500
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: can see the babies shriveled up, their bodies, wasted, dying

1501
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 1: literally of starvation. The horrible image of a child who

1502
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,640
Speaker 1: has been you know, withered away and is fighting for

1503
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:45,719
Speaker 1: his life right now, that has gone viral. These images

1504
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 1: of horror are everywhere, and they're hoping that with our backing,

1505
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 1: they will be able to get away with it. That's

1506
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 1: the bet we'll see.

1507
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's well said Crystal.

1508
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:59,680
Speaker 2: And we have a good guest who's going to be

1509
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 2: joining us down to breakdown some of this media chaos.

1510
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 3: Let's get to it.

1511
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,679
Speaker 1: So we have a bunch of media ground to cover,

1512
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 1: both regards with regards to CNN and also New York

1513
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: Times with Daniel Bogoslaw who joins us now. He's a

1514
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 1: reporter for the intercept who's been breaking some incredibly important

1515
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:13,639
Speaker 1: stories there.

1516
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 4: Good to see you, Daniel.

1517
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 3: Good to see you, Dan.

1518
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 9: Thanks for having me.

1519
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course.

1520
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: So let's start with this story that you just put

1521
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:20,839
Speaker 1: out about CNN.

1522
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 4: You got an internal leak.

1523
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: Put this up on the screen that reveals that Christian

1524
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 1: Ahmanpur actually expressed in an internal meeting, along with a

1525
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 1: number of other staffers, great concern over CNN's coverage of

1526
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 1: the Israel assault on the Gaza strip. She mentioned, you

1527
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: know that you've got a sort of hypocrisy. I don't

1528
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: think that that was the word that she used, but

1529
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 1: go ahead and breakdown for is what you heard in

1530
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:47,080
Speaker 1: this leaked meeting?

1531
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 3: Sure well.

1532
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,799
Speaker 9: I think the largest takeaway from this was the continued

1533
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,520
Speaker 9: confirmation of an earlier report I did about the concerns

1534
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:59,719
Speaker 9: raised by the CNN internal protocol for all Israel coverage.

1535
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 9: It's called the Second Eye Alias. It's basically an internal

1536
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 9: system that ensures all news concerning Israel or Palestine is

1537
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:13,640
Speaker 9: run through a team of editors largely comprised of Jerusalem

1538
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 9: Bureaus staff members, and the rational given by CNN is

1539
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 9: to ensure that subject matter experts and people on the

1540
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 9: ground have an opportunity to touch and oversee the reporting

1541
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 9: of an extremely sensitive issue. However, multiple staffers last month

1542
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 9: expressed to me that this protocol caused serious delays and

1543
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 9: getting out Israel coverage, and also ultimately shaped the editorial

1544
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 9: line regarding Israel and Palestine by prioritizing IDF statements at

1545
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 9: the top of pieces and basically just the system.

1546
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:55,720
Speaker 3: While justified by CNN and.

1547
01:15:55,680 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 9: Executives and editors for you know, ensuring accurate, really resulted

1548
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 9: in a degradation of the Israel coverage, and that was

1549
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 9: confirmed this week when we published a story about an

1550
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 9: internal meeting at CNN where even Christian ammanfor you know,

1551
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 9: the chief International correspondent, similarly expressed concern about a double

1552
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 9: standard that was created through this protocol, and her concern

1553
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 9: was echoed by a number of other staffers who were

1554
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 9: present at this meeting who said that they felt delegitimized

1555
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,919
Speaker 9: by CNN's coverage. They felt that it was delegitimizing CNN's

1556
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 9: standing in the region, and according to one staffer, turning

1557
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 9: on CNN was more concerning than the bombs falling around

1558
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 9: them while while they were covering Israel's attack in Linon.

1559
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 2: So, Daniel, you guy also band at the forefront of

1560
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 2: exposing some of what's going on over at the New

1561
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 2: York Times, and there has now been a witch hunt

1562
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 2: that has been started inside the Time, not necessarily to

1563
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,759
Speaker 2: question some of the reporting around their October seven rape story,

1564
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 2: but instead to find out who are the people who

1565
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 2: have been leaking to you? So, what do you make

1566
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 2: of a media organization starting a leak investigation, even though

1567
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 2: they themselves subsist on leaks. Whatever, it's something that they

1568
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 2: are makes them look bad given your reporting.

1569
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 3: Well, I think it.

1570
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 9: Confirms a lot of what we heard throughout the course

1571
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 9: of reporting about the internal structural flaws president the New

1572
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 9: York Times. Instead of trying to listen to the reporters

1573
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 9: who they trust to put out accurate news from dangerous

1574
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 9: and challenging places, who are speaking up and saying this

1575
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 9: story did not meet the standards which we all try

1576
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 9: to hold ourselves to as reporters and editors, the Times

1577
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 9: is completely ignoring the people on the ground. They're they're

1578
01:17:56,720 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 9: ignoring the people who make that newspaper function and provide

1579
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 9: it with with the reporting that it it. You know,

1580
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:07,800
Speaker 9: it is the foundation of the whole thing, and they're saying, no,

1581
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 9: we're going to crack down. And as as a source

1582
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 9: pointed out, you know, people do not leak because they're

1583
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 9: hyper radicalized partisans. You know, that is the picture that

1584
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 9: I think The Times is trying to paint that. You know,

1585
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 9: these are people who are who are stepping out of line,

1586
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 9: who are prioritizing their own personal politics over the good

1587
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 9: of the institution. But as once Wor's pointed out that

1588
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 9: it's actually the opposite is true for almost all leakers,

1589
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:42,839
Speaker 9: be the government officials or New York Times staffers. Leaking

1590
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 9: is a course of last resort when the official channels

1591
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 9: for attempting to reform catastrophic system failures break down. And

1592
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 9: I think that's that's certainly what all of us who

1593
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 9: have been reporting on this have noticed and observed talking

1594
01:18:58,640 --> 01:18:59,519
Speaker 9: to people on the inside.

1595
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 1: I just someone are remind people too, what the story

1596
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 1: is that you reported down. And as we reference, this

1597
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:08,560
Speaker 1: has to do with what they billed as this blockbuster

1598
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 1: intensive investigation into sexual assault being used systematically as a

1599
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 1: weapon of war by hamas on October seventh, and there

1600
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,840
Speaker 1: were three reporters who were bylined on that piece immediately

1601
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,719
Speaker 1: after it was published, it came under a lot of scrutiny. Actually,

1602
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:27,919
Speaker 1: one of the main victims in the story her family.

1603
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 1: She was murdered on October seventh by Hamas her family

1604
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 1: freaked out. They rebutted the reports. They said, you interviewed

1605
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 1: us under false pretenses. We had no idea that this

1606
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 1: was about a rape. We actually do not believe that

1607
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 1: she was raped. We have no evidence that she was raped,

1608
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 1: and actually we have evidence in the other direction that

1609
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 1: she was not raped. Some of the quote unquote eyewitnesses

1610
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 1: that they cited had changed their stories. There were all

1611
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 1: sorts of issues here, and you all received this leak

1612
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:58,080
Speaker 1: that The Daily, their premier podcast, had planned an episode

1613
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 1: around this blockbuster investor negation that they eventually ended up

1614
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 1: shelving because they either had to soften the language and

1615
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 1: raise questions and make it less ambiguous than the report,

1616
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 1: which was very conclusive in asserting what happened, or go

1617
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 1: with the original reporting, which had, you know, sort of

1618
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: fallen apart under scrutiny, or shelved it all together, and

1619
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 1: that's what they ultimately decided to do. You all have

1620
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: since reported additional information about a not Schworts, who was

1621
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 1: revealed online by C. Squirrel to have effectively no background

1622
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 1: in journalism, but to have served previously in the IDF

1623
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 1: in intelligence unit. Another of the reporters byline on the piece,

1624
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,479
Speaker 1: Adam Sella, also had very limited experience. And these were

1625
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 1: the two reporters charged with, you know, the extensive quote unquote,

1626
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 1: on the ground investigation. So there's been a lot of

1627
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:51,600
Speaker 1: tumult around this piece, around how these reporters with no

1628
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:56,480
Speaker 1: experience got to work at the premier elite media institution

1629
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: in probably the world, and so sponsor to that for

1630
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,720
Speaker 1: The New York Times isn't gosh, what happened here? How

1631
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:06,879
Speaker 1: do we get this report wrong? What are the issues?

1632
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 1: How did these journalists quote unquote journalists really no experience,

1633
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: how they get put on this piece? No, the response

1634
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 1: has been to go after the people, to shine the

1635
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:19,000
Speaker 1: light on the problem that as actually unfolding at the Times.

1636
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 4: And there's another shoot to drop here.

1637
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,679
Speaker 1: This was also a number of outlets got their hands

1638
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 1: on this letter that came from the Times. Union put

1639
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:29,600
Speaker 1: this up on the screen from the Washington Post. The

1640
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: Union is saying, not only are you doing this leak hunt,

1641
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 1: but you are racially targeting you are racially profiling your employees,

1642
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:42,960
Speaker 1: assuming that anyone with you know, who's presumably like Arab,

1643
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:46,480
Speaker 1: American or Muslim, or who has some sort of identity

1644
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 1: that you think may be skeptical of Israel's line, you

1645
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 1: are singling them out and targeting them. Here, talk about

1646
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 1: this piece of it, because I mean, they say directly,

1647
01:21:57,120 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 1: we demand the time cease what has become a destructive

1648
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 1: and racially targeted which hunt in response to the reports

1649
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 1: that you all have put out.

1650
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,560
Speaker 9: Sure, so you know, I think what the union is

1651
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 9: referring to here is the sort of interrogation of members

1652
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:17,240
Speaker 9: of a of a Middle East affinity group within the

1653
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 9: New York Times. And and and you know, the Times

1654
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 9: UH pushed back on on the union statement and and said,

1655
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:27,679
Speaker 9: you know that this is inaccurate. And if you actually

1656
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 9: look at the spread of the people that we've interrogated,

1657
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:34,160
Speaker 9: and you'll see that that we're not We're not UH

1658
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 9: racially profiling our staff.

1659
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:37,719
Speaker 4: We're interrogating everyone. Don't worry.

1660
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:41,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, but but again it's it's it's shocking that you

1661
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 9: know each step of this process, you know, you have

1662
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 9: an opportunity for for UH newsroom leadership to take responsibility

1663
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 9: to reassure the reporters who work extremely hard and put

1664
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:59,759
Speaker 9: their lives at that risk at times to cover this reporting,

1665
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 9: and there's an opportunity to actually welcome real feedback from

1666
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:06,639
Speaker 9: the people who are on the ground doing this, who

1667
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 9: want to see the paper succeed, who work there. For

1668
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 9: many of them, that's the that's the end of the line.

1669
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:14,920
Speaker 9: That's that's the that's the you know, top goal for

1670
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 9: so many reporters to get in there and uh, you

1671
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 9: know that that notion that they are so that that

1672
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 9: they're reporters who have who have invested so much in

1673
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,720
Speaker 9: this in this company, would be willing to throw it

1674
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:30,719
Speaker 9: all away, uh for for frivolous uh personal reasons instead

1675
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 9: of for wanting to see the organization succeed. Is proof

1676
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 9: of concept for perhaps why some of these flaws and

1677
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:42,679
Speaker 9: failures have been allowed to fester and exist for so long.

1678
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: Daniel Ryan had predicted online that this leak investigation was

1679
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 1: likely to backfire and trigger additional leaks because of people

1680
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 1: being upset by this response. You know, has that prediction

1681
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:58,800
Speaker 1: come to fruition? Are you having more staffers come to you,

1682
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 1: are you hearing more from.

1683
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 9: Your Yeah, I mean I can't speak to Ryan's Rolldex,

1684
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 9: but I know certainly that has been the case for myself.

1685
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 3: Yes, all right, well good we looked well. You there

1686
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:11,719
Speaker 3: to seeing more of it. Appreciate your work.

1687
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 4: Dan, Thanks Daniel, great to see you.

1688
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:15,519
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Okay, Chrissel, what are you looking at?

1689
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:19,839
Speaker 1: Chaotic incident? A crush of bodies, food aid related deaths.

1690
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,360
Speaker 1: Western media rush to create fog of war confusion after

1691
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: a straightforward massacre by Israeli forces left over one hundred

1692
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: Palestinians dead and more than seven hundred wounded. Their headlines

1693
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:34,759
Speaker 1: and stories followed a classic playbook. Rather than straightforwardly report

1694
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 1: what we know based on video, audio and visual evidence,

1695
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:41,879
Speaker 1: eyewitness testimony, and reports of doctors who treated the wounded,

1696
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,559
Speaker 1: they instead attempted to shroud the whole quote chaotic incident

1697
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 1: in mystery, thereby running cover for the war criminals who

1698
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:51,880
Speaker 1: committed this atrocity, the Israeli government, which set the genocidal

1699
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 1: policy in the United States, which backs them every step

1700
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 1: of the way.

1701
01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 4: This in spite of the.

1702
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 1: Fact that, in many instances, if these news outlets simply

1703
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: followed their own reports to their logical conclusion, the fact

1704
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 1: that Israeli forces murdered starving Palestinians as they sought food

1705
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 1: becomes undeniable. Here's a report by Al Jazeera, who had

1706
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 1: reporters on the ground that day.

1707
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 14: In the early hours of the morning, thousands of people

1708
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 14: flocked to Al Rashid Road, southwest of Gaza City, desperate

1709
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 14: for aid. Instead, survivors say they walked into a trap.

1710
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 14: By the time the sun rose, the extent of the

1711
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 14: horror was clear. The dead and the dying lying side

1712
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 14: by side, gunned down by Israeli fire.

1713
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 7: The Israeli's just opened random fire on us, as if

1714
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 7: it was a trap. Once we approached the eight trucks,

1715
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:50,599
Speaker 7: the Israeli thanks and warplane started firing on us. If

1716
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 7: this continues like this, we do not want any aid,

1717
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:56,879
Speaker 7: deliver it at all. Every convoy coming means another massacred.

1718
01:25:57,080 --> 01:26:00,559
Speaker 1: The IDF, in a series of shifting explanations, attempted to

1719
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:03,799
Speaker 1: undercut the testimony of Palestinians on the ground.

1720
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 13: There's three different explanations we're hearing from the IDF so far.

1721
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 13: Initially was that there was a stampede that caused loads

1722
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:11,720
Speaker 13: of people to die. Then there was a suggestion that

1723
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 13: a truck had actually driven by civilian driver had mowed

1724
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 13: down a loads of the Palestinians. Then there was a

1725
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 13: suggestion that actually that this was potentially a.

1726
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 1: Mass Now, obviously, the fact that a the IDEF has

1727
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 1: been caught lying often and b their story kept changing

1728
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 1: throughout the day should make you highly skeptical, to say

1729
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:32,639
Speaker 1: the least, of their account, but news outlets nevertheless gave

1730
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 1: it great credence. What's more, the one piece of supposed

1731
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 1: evidence that Israel offered for their version of events was

1732
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 1: revealed to be selectively edited, and even that video on

1733
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:46,400
Speaker 1: careful review backed up the clear cut evidence that this

1734
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 1: was not a chaotic incident but another massacre courtesy of

1735
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 1: the IDF. Both in New York Times and BBC Verified

1736
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 1: noted that this video, which the Israelis offered as evidence

1737
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 1: of a stampede, was edited and the Israelis refused to

1738
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 1: provide the original footage. Per the New York Times quote,

1739
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:06,760
Speaker 1: the video, which does not include audio, was edited by

1740
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: the Israeli military with multiple clips spliced together, leaving out

1741
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 1: a key moment before many in the crowd began running

1742
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 1: away from the trucks, with some people crawling behind walls,

1743
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:20,439
Speaker 1: appearing to take cover. Gee, Wonder what caused them to flee?

1744
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 1: Wonder why audio of the gunfire, I mean stampede was

1745
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:27,479
Speaker 1: not included. BBC Verified notes that the video shows events

1746
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: in two different locations. In a portion of the footage,

1747
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: you can actually see Israeli tanks and motionless bodies depicted

1748
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 1: by the red boxes strewn across the ground. Now, this

1749
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:41,479
Speaker 1: video alone is highly suggestive of what actually occurred, but

1750
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:44,040
Speaker 1: we've got quite a bit more evidence. Just to eliminate

1751
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:47,479
Speaker 1: any potential doubt. Alt zero release footage from nearby, which

1752
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 1: was verified by both The Times and BBC. And in

1753
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 1: that video you can hear volleys of gunfire and see

1754
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 1: trace arounds in the sky coming from a nearby Israeli

1755
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: military base. Trace rounds, by the way, are used to

1756
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: mark tar targets for soldiers to fire on. Here is

1757
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 1: a portion of that video. Now, the Israelis, in one

1758
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:27,040
Speaker 1: of their shifting fabrications, earclaimed their soldiers did fire some

1759
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:30,599
Speaker 1: warning shots, but that the deaths were definitely caused by

1760
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 1: a stampede. Well, there is a pretty easy way to

1761
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:34,879
Speaker 1: know whether or not that's true.

1762
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:35,680
Speaker 4: You can ask the.

1763
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:38,760
Speaker 1: Doctors and hospitals who treated the victims. To find out

1764
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 1: what type of injuries they were actually treating. Sure enough,

1765
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:45,479
Speaker 1: those doctors say the overwhelming majority of their patients were

1766
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:48,760
Speaker 1: being treated for gunshot wounds, not broken bones and other

1767
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 1: injuries consistent with a stampede.

1768
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:52,560
Speaker 4: The head of Alauda.

1769
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:55,200
Speaker 1: Hospital told the Associated Press that eighty percent of the

1770
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:57,800
Speaker 1: injured at his hospital had been struck by gunfire, So

1771
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:00,400
Speaker 1: of the one hundred and seventy six wounded, one hundred

1772
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: and forty two had gunshot wounds. The director of Kamal

1773
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:07,639
Speaker 1: Adwan Hospital said one hundred percent of their injured were

1774
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,639
Speaker 1: treated for gunshot wounds. He also said that the majority

1775
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 1: of those wounds were to the head, neck, or chest,

1776
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 1: in other words, attempted kill shots.

1777
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:17,520
Speaker 4: Contrary to that IDF claim.

1778
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:20,120
Speaker 1: That soldiers had felt unsafe and so fired non lethal

1779
01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:23,320
Speaker 1: shots at Palestinian's legs. And if you don't trust the

1780
01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 1: claims of these hospital administrators, the UN has since sent

1781
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:31,480
Speaker 1: a team to investigate and confirmed exactly the same information.

1782
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 1: They found a quote large number of gunshot wounds in

1783
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,599
Speaker 1: the wake of what has now been dubbed the Flower massacre.

1784
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 1: Ditto euromat Human Rights Monitor, which had researchers there on

1785
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:43,759
Speaker 1: the ground from the very first moments of this whrror,

1786
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 1: and they confirmed the nature of the wounds, which were

1787
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:51,840
Speaker 1: again overwhelmingly from gunfire, not due to a stampede. Now,

1788
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 1: the nature of the wounds sustained is about as definitive

1789
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:57,639
Speaker 1: a piece of evidence as you could possibly get. One

1790
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:00,919
Speaker 1: side says people died in stampede, the others says gunfire.

1791
01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:04,240
Speaker 1: The wounded and dead are riddled with bullets. Case closed.

1792
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 1: But of course that hasn't stopped the media from throwing

1793
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 1: up their hands. How can one possibly know what happened?

1794
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 1: What even are facts in reality?

1795
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 3: Really?

1796
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:14,600
Speaker 1: Alan McLoud has done a great job capturing many of

1797
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:17,240
Speaker 1: the most egregious headlines, although it to be perfectly honest.

1798
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:20,759
Speaker 1: Open up literally any Western outlet and you can easily

1799
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:24,960
Speaker 1: pull your own sample of atrocious headlines. CNN went with

1800
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:27,880
Speaker 1: at least one hundred killed and seven hundred injured in

1801
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 1: chaotic incident where IDF open fire as people waited for

1802
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:36,360
Speaker 1: food in Gaza. Palestinian officials say, Now, this one checks

1803
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:38,920
Speaker 1: a whole lot of manufacturing consent boxes. This is a

1804
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:42,920
Speaker 1: chaotic incident, not a massacre. The IDF quote open fire,

1805
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,720
Speaker 1: but that gunfire isn't then connected to the deaths, and

1806
01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:48,599
Speaker 1: just for good measure, the whole chaotic incident is qualified

1807
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:51,479
Speaker 1: as only being based on the word of Palestinian officials.

1808
01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:54,839
Speaker 1: And you know who can trust those hamas loving barbarians anyway.

1809
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:58,400
Speaker 1: Forbes says more than one hundred Palestinians killed while waiting

1810
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 1: for food. Health Ministry says here Israel isn't even mentioned

1811
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:04,080
Speaker 1: where the Palestinian's food poison, where they hit by a tornado?

1812
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:04,639
Speaker 4: Who knows?

1813
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: And again this is all only per the Health Ministry,

1814
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:09,599
Speaker 1: So how can anyone really know if any of this

1815
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 1: even happened. The Guardian, in a similar vein, invented an

1816
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 1: entirely new category.

1817
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:15,400
Speaker 4: Of cause of death.

1818
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 1: Apparently these Gosins were struck down not by bullets, but

1819
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:22,880
Speaker 1: they suffered food aid related deaths. The New York Times

1820
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 1: decided to compose a tortured high coup in an attempt

1821
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 1: to avoid describing any blame to Israel. Here's their headline

1822
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 1: as hungary gosinskroto convoy, a crush of bodies, Israeli gunshots

1823
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 1: and a deadly toll. In a later, even more outrageous posts,

1824
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 1: they seemed to suggest that it was actually Israel's generosity

1825
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 1: which backfired here quote disastrous convoy was part of new

1826
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:44,839
Speaker 1: Israeli effort to hand out more.

1827
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:45,719
Speaker 4: Aid in Gasa.

1828
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 1: Really, I can't begin to explain my absolute contempt for

1829
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:52,720
Speaker 1: all of these schools, because although anyone who wants to

1830
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:55,320
Speaker 1: know the facts about this massacre can easily find them,

1831
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 1: the truth is the press attempts to confuse.

1832
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 4: An off escape. They worked.

1833
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:01,920
Speaker 1: They needed just to to lay enough, just to confuse

1834
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:05,280
Speaker 1: enough for Americans to avoid the totality of the absolute

1835
01:32:05,280 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 1: horror that we are paying for and running cover for.

1836
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 4: They need just enough.

1837
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 1: Well, it's complicated for people to shrug their shoulders at

1838
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 1: the unfortunate food aid related deaths from the chaotic incident

1839
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:18,400
Speaker 1: and then just move on. And they need to allow

1840
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:21,360
Speaker 1: the Biden administrations paid propagandas to be able to point

1841
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 1: to the conflicting accounts to avoid having to respond to

1842
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:28,400
Speaker 1: this carnage directly, which by the way, is exactly what

1843
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 1: State of State.

1844
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 4: Department spokesman Matthew Miller did.

1845
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:33,559
Speaker 5: So do you think that Israeli is complying with this

1846
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:34,760
Speaker 5: ICJ link?

1847
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:38,479
Speaker 14: And do you believe do you agree that.

1848
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:43,440
Speaker 5: Today's attack near Gaza on starving people waiting for momentary

1849
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:47,280
Speaker 5: assistance violence this ice ages.

1850
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 15: So again, let me just say I don't believe we

1851
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:51,600
Speaker 15: have established the facts of what actually happened today, but

1852
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:53,920
Speaker 15: it is important that those facts be established, which is

1853
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 15: why we have called for an investigation, and we'll look

1854
01:32:57,080 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 15: forward to the results of that investigation. As I've seen,

1855
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:02,599
Speaker 15: there are conflicting accounts, and we don't know the ground

1856
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 15: truth of what happened.

1857
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 1: Conflicting accounts. We don't know the ground truth of what happened.

1858
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 1: We call for Israel to investigate themselves. Meanwhile, new horrors

1859
01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 1: are being inflicted on innocent Palestinians so rapidly we can

1860
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:18,680
Speaker 1: barely even keep track. In fact, more eight Sakers were

1861
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 1: shot by the IDF since the Flower massacre. Yet again,

1862
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 1: a new war crime is being normalized. Now the Biden

1863
01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:28,479
Speaker 1: administration wants to assuage their conscience and do a little

1864
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:31,240
Speaker 1: pr move by dropping enough aid to feed one meal

1865
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:34,479
Speaker 1: to one point six percent of the population in Gaza

1866
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:38,040
Speaker 1: a single meal, while supplying the bombs and bullets that

1867
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: have enabled this continued slaughter. They can gaslight and obscure

1868
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,760
Speaker 1: reality all that they want, but the blood on their

1869
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:48,440
Speaker 1: hands is undeniable, and Sager I saw the IDF.

1870
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 4: Put out the results of their investigator. You'll never guess

1871
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 4: what they do.

1872
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

1873
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 2: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1874
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 4: All right, saga, what are you looking at?

1875
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:00,559
Speaker 3: Well?

1876
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:02,400
Speaker 2: Elon Musk has been in the headlines a lot in

1877
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:05,919
Speaker 2: last year so mostly for various political or Twitter based reasons,

1878
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:08,080
Speaker 2: but in recent days he's actually made them in a

1879
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,680
Speaker 2: way that doesn't conveniently align with the culture wars and

1880
01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 2: instead reminds us of the pre political Elon, who for

1881
01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:16,720
Speaker 2: years has been a Cassandra on artificial intelligence and his

1882
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,920
Speaker 2: belief that, if not responsibly handled, would be a catastrophe

1883
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:22,240
Speaker 2: for the human race. He made big news this week

1884
01:34:22,240 --> 01:34:25,280
Speaker 2: with a major lawsuit against open AI. That's the group

1885
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 2: that he helped co found in twenty fifteen, which goes

1886
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,879
Speaker 2: far beyond his most recent split with leader Sam Altman

1887
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 2: and cuts to the heart of debates around AI and

1888
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 2: its recent rapid development. The lawsuit effectively alleges that Altman

1889
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:42,160
Speaker 2: and open AI have breached the original founding of the

1890
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 2: mission but on the organization by becoming a de facto

1891
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:48,800
Speaker 2: arm of the Microsoft Corporation and putting profits ahead of

1892
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:51,680
Speaker 2: the mission originally of open source AI that would be

1893
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:55,200
Speaker 2: beneficial to humanity. So the lawsuit is worth reading in

1894
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 2: its entirety, as Elon particularly takes aim at the most

1895
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:01,719
Speaker 2: recent kerfuffle that involved Altmann Brief Ouster, and it notes

1896
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:04,719
Speaker 2: that the board of open Ai has been cleansed largely

1897
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 2: of those who believe in their original mission of developing

1898
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:10,320
Speaker 2: AI for the benefit of humanity. After the purge of

1899
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,280
Speaker 2: the board and the subsequent reinstatement of Altman, Elon alleges

1900
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:17,360
Speaker 2: that OpenAI has both already achieved artificial general intelligence and

1901
01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 2: has decided to sell the benefits of that to Microsoft,

1902
01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:23,200
Speaker 2: the most valuable technology company in the world. He writes

1903
01:35:23,200 --> 01:35:26,040
Speaker 2: in his lawsuit, quote, mister Altman has handpookeed a new

1904
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:29,400
Speaker 2: board that lacks technical expertise or any substantial background in

1905
01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:32,799
Speaker 2: AI governance with the previous board had by design, adding

1906
01:35:33,479 --> 01:35:36,360
Speaker 2: new board consists of members with more experience in profit

1907
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 2: enterprises or politics rather than in AI ethics and in governance.

1908
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:44,720
Speaker 2: They were also reportedly quote big fans of Altman. As

1909
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:46,799
Speaker 2: he says in the lawsuit, it doesn't take a genius

1910
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 2: to see that Elon is right, since the new board

1911
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:53,000
Speaker 2: members literally includes the sellout neoliberal economist Larry Summers. Furthermore,

1912
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 2: Elon points out, quote, with this restructuring, OpenAI, Inc. Has

1913
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:59,679
Speaker 2: abandoned its nonprofit mission of developing AGI for the benefit

1914
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,679
Speaker 2: of umanity, broadly, thereby keeping it out of the hands

1915
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:06,160
Speaker 2: a large for profit corporation in which vast power will

1916
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:09,280
Speaker 2: be unduly concentrated. Much of the lawsuit relies on a

1917
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:12,200
Speaker 2: technicality that's going to play out in court. Effectively, it

1918
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:14,880
Speaker 2: boils down to whether you think open Ai has effectively

1919
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 2: achieved so called artificial general intelligence or not. AGI is

1920
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:21,600
Speaker 2: the catchall term of an AI that is capable of

1921
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 2: thinking for itself and for surpassing purely human control. Per

1922
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:28,760
Speaker 2: Elon's telling, open AI's current licensing deal with Microsoft is

1923
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 2: a sham that relies on a definition where OpenAI and

1924
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:37,000
Speaker 2: Microsoft have an exclusive agreement on quote PREAGI technology. This

1925
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:41,040
Speaker 2: so called PREAGI tech that Microsoft isn't incorporating into its

1926
01:36:41,120 --> 01:36:44,840
Speaker 2: vast office empire has boosted the valuation of OpenAI to

1927
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 2: some eighty one hundred billion dollars and has been tremendously

1928
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:51,759
Speaker 2: impactful to the Microsoft Corporation stock. A paradox that Elon's

1929
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:54,799
Speaker 2: lawsuit points out is that OpenAI has a direct financial

1930
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:58,799
Speaker 2: incentive to say that it has not achieved so called AGI,

1931
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:01,759
Speaker 2: because if it has, it would then instruct the board

1932
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 2: and the company to decide whether to then exit its

1933
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:08,960
Speaker 2: Microsoft license and instead then ensure the technology is used

1934
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 2: for the benefit of humanity. This points out the fundamental

1935
01:37:11,960 --> 01:37:14,719
Speaker 2: disconnect with an open ai itself. It is a structure

1936
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 2: as both a nonprofit and a for profit enterprise, where

1937
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:20,960
Speaker 2: people are getting on the for profit side stupendously rich.

1938
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:23,599
Speaker 2: So put it in simpler terms, have you ever known

1939
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 2: a group of people, no matter how well meaning, who

1940
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:28,799
Speaker 2: would simply turn off one of the biggest money spigots

1941
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:32,240
Speaker 2: in the world for some far off philosophical principles. The

1942
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:35,000
Speaker 2: reason that the lawsuit, in my opinion, is imperative is

1943
01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:38,599
Speaker 2: it actually would instruct a jury if it proceeds that far,

1944
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:44,000
Speaker 2: to rule on what exactly AGI is taking the definition

1945
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:46,320
Speaker 2: out of the hands of the creators and beneficiaries of

1946
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 2: the tech and instead establishing a new standard. The standard

1947
01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:53,080
Speaker 2: may sound facetious, but hundreds of billions of dollars.

1948
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:55,200
Speaker 3: Here are on the line. More importantly, it actually puts

1949
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:57,760
Speaker 3: the debate into the public realm, where it belongs.

1950
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:00,240
Speaker 2: The biggest problem with AI research right now is that

1951
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 2: the immense cost of R and D has monopolized much

1952
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,000
Speaker 2: of the development in the hands of the existing big

1953
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 2: tech players, each with their own incentive to use AI

1954
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:12,400
Speaker 2: for their own profitable aim and not to worry about

1955
01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 2: any of the social problems. Open AI, in its founding

1956
01:38:15,560 --> 01:38:18,840
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, was set up explicity to avoid this trap,

1957
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:22,880
Speaker 2: to pursue nonprofit research and to bolster an open source

1958
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:27,360
Speaker 2: environment which technology startups could then build themselves on top of. Basically,

1959
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:30,960
Speaker 2: it would concentrate the R and D costs within open AI,

1960
01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:34,720
Speaker 2: but then allow potentially millions of businesses to piggyback off

1961
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:37,360
Speaker 2: of them and to level the playing field against Microsoft,

1962
01:38:37,439 --> 01:38:40,800
Speaker 2: Google and others. There Since, transformation basically into a for

1963
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 2: profit company has destroyed much of that vision and has

1964
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:47,559
Speaker 2: set back any dream of an original open source environment.

1965
01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 2: Open sources I have laid out in a previous monologue

1966
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:52,320
Speaker 2: on the subject is, in my opinion, the only way

1967
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:54,640
Speaker 2: to really solve many of these problems that we have

1968
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:57,759
Speaker 2: before us on AI ideological capture of big tech companies,

1969
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:01,799
Speaker 2: ruthless pursuit of profit over any responsible ability, monopolization, complete

1970
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:04,280
Speaker 2: lack of transparency. But most important of all is the

1971
01:39:04,280 --> 01:39:06,880
Speaker 2: public say and what is already acknowledged.

1972
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:08,000
Speaker 3: As a world changing technology.

1973
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 2: This lawsuit is the first fight in what I hope

1974
01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 2: is a general public awareness of this issue that we

1975
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:15,120
Speaker 2: have very little time to actually get ahead of, because

1976
01:39:15,120 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 2: if we don't, then the lawsuit and even the discussion

1977
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 2: around this is moot. Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Facebook. They will

1978
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,519
Speaker 2: just be bigger and stronger than they ever were before.

1979
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:26,280
Speaker 2: They'll buy their way out of any more scrutiny, leaving

1980
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 2: us simply to bow to our existing and new overlords.

1981
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 2: So it's a really interesting lawsuit, Crystal.

1982
01:39:31,400 --> 01:39:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you want to hear my reaction to

1983
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:37,960
Speaker 1: Sager's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1984
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 3: Okay, guys, thank you so much for watching.

1985
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:42,679
Speaker 2: We really appreciate it, and we will see you all tomorrow.