1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous history as a production of I Heart Radio. Here's 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: a golden oldie many of us will instantly remember in 3 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: four d and nine two Columbus sailed the Ocean blue. 4 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: He had three ships and left from Spain. He sailed 5 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: through sunshine, wind and rain, and it goes on and 6 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: on and on. It's not terribly historically accurate. It's about 7 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: a guy named Christopher Columbus, or at least that's how 8 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: we say the name of Cristobal Cologne in English. Hi, 9 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: I'm ben Ben. I know this isn't about Chris Columbus, 10 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: who directed the Home Alone movies. This is no, this 11 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: is not that guy succeeded despite the nominative determinism working 12 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: against him. Uh. And you know, uh, we've got to 13 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: say this is this somewhat of a timely episode. The 14 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: day that is sometimes called Indigenous People's Days, sometimes called 15 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: Columbus Day is upon us. You know, it's coming up 16 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: in a few weeks. Have you ever seen that episode 17 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: of the Sopranos Um where uh, Tony and the crew 18 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: get all up in arms with the Native American population 19 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: in New Jersey. Um, kind of arguing about Columbus Day 20 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: and the Columbus Day Parade. No I was established earlier. 21 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: I haven't seen the sopranis. Oh that's right. Have we 22 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: talked about this. I didn't remember. It's just it's such 23 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: a good show. Um, but it is a big deal 24 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: in the Italian community. Uh. Columbus has still kind of 25 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: looked at as a bit of a as a bit 26 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: of a hero in certain certain circles. And it's a 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: very controversial thing because the idea of calling it Indigenous 28 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: People's Day to folks who still think Columbus was an 29 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: okay guy. Um, that's they think that's like overly PC 30 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: or it's sort of whitewashing history or whatever, and they 31 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: don't dig. And that's the episode of the club the 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: spranis about. Um. But yeah, it turns out Colomas not 33 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: a particularly great guy. No. No. Now, in certain circles, 34 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: of course, all sorts of historical figures are are lauded, 35 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: right and looked up to uh figure that we see 36 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: as incredibly heroic. And this certain circle of ours, fellow listeners, 37 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: is our super producer Casey Pegram, who in his absence, 38 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: has bequeathed it's a joke for everyone to listen to 39 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: the last episode bequeathed us the wonderful presence of our 40 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: guest super producer j J. Pauseway, so let's give it 41 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: up for him, j J. How you doing? Okay? That's 42 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: a thumbs up from j J. We know that history 43 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: is much more complicated than the tales we teach to 44 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: school children. And if you who are an eighties or 45 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: nineties baby, as they're called here in the US, then 46 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: at least in elementary school, you probably got a very 47 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: sanitized version of the the explorations of Christopher Columbus. And 48 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: on the second Monday of every October this day occurs 49 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: Columbus Day Indigenous People's Day. But in recent decades, especially 50 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: the last decade or so, more and more historians have 51 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: brought to the mainstream the problematic life and work of 52 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: this explorer, ultimately asking should we treat him as a hero? 53 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: It turns out that this controversy is not new. In fact, 54 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: this controversy over whether Columbus was a villain or a 55 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: hero dates all the way back to the time of 56 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: the Spanish monarchy, which is crazy. It is crazy. And 57 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: just to backtrack really quickly, something I saw at the 58 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: top of the show, I just wanted to clarify, um, 59 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: Columbus Day is often kind of enshrined in the Italian 60 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: American community as sort of a celebration of their own heritage, 61 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: and many in that community do still defend it to 62 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: this day, and that is kind of what that Sopranos 63 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: episode is about. But it goes all the way back 64 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: to New York City in eighteen sixty six when the 65 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: first Columbus Day celebration took place. So obviously everybody in 66 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: the Italian American community doesn't fiercely defend Columbus Day, but 67 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: it is very much still an ongoing point of contention. 68 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: I see, yeah, and that's because, uh, Columbus is Italian. 69 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: He was born in the Republic of Genoa in fourteen 70 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: fifty one, and he grew up along the Italian coast 71 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: in the northwest. When he was ten years old, he 72 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: started working on ships. He was, you know, probably like 73 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: a cabin boy something like that, transporting goods from the 74 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: Iberian Peninsula all the way up to Ireland. Eventually he 75 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: settles down in Lisbon and he continues to work as 76 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: a shipper and importer. He marries, he has a kid. 77 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: He learns to speak several languages. He was a polyglot. 78 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: He spoke Latin, Portuguese and Castilian, and he was self taught. Right, 79 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: he didn't obtain a formal education. Not as big a 80 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: deal then as it is now. Right. He uh, He 81 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: read astronomy, geography, history, and he loved reading the stories 82 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: of travelers like Marco Polo. And he came up at 83 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: a time when exploration was a big deal on the 84 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: idea of whether it be expansion or just sort of 85 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: going venturing out into the world. Because of the storied 86 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: and history of folks like Marco Polo, trade by shipping 87 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: roots was a huge deal. Um. But in fourteen fifty three, 88 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: that is when Constantinople was defeated, it was overtaken by 89 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: the Ottoman Turks, and some of these trade routes that 90 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: had been you know, a breeze became very dangerous to Europeans, 91 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: specifically Christian Europeans. And these roots lead to Asia and 92 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: the Silk Road for trading of spices and fabrics and 93 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: all kinds of different goods that you just couldn't get 94 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 1: in Europe. Um. So it became a very important time 95 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: to find friendlier routes to Asia, whether by sea or 96 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: by land. Um. And that is when the King of 97 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: Portugal's astronomer in fourteen seventy decided that it would be 98 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: a smart move to go west, young man, to the 99 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: Iberian Peninsula, where you could kind of reinvigorate some of 100 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: this trade with Asia exactly exactly. And they weren't they 101 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: weren't sure what they would find. But a lot of 102 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,799 Speaker 1: this stuff you'll hear, especially as a child, about sailing 103 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 1: or circuit navigating the globe. We're attempting to sail long 104 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: distances across the seas is going to be sort of simplified. 105 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: History shows us that knowledge of world geography developed unevenly 106 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: so some regions, in some countries, some communities knew more 107 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: about the world around us in the world over the 108 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: edges of the map than others did. But people wanted 109 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: to search for these new trade routes. This is something 110 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: that later our species would call the Age of Discovery. 111 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:32,559 Speaker 1: In European explorer Bartolomuldas reaches the Cape of Good Hope 112 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: that's at the southern tip of the African continent. And 113 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: although this opened up a new area of focus for 114 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: a lot of explorers, Columbus and his brother, who also 115 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: lived in Lisbon remained strongly committed to this idea of 116 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: sailing west from the Canary Islands, and Columbus had his brother, 117 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: his younger brother, Bartolomul. They created this plan where they said, Okay, 118 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna go to the Canary Islands off the west 119 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: coast of Africa, and then we're gonna sail west. And 120 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: according to my calculations, says Columbus, Japan is about three 121 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: thousand seven kilometers away. For a quick conversion to anybody 122 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: who's not metric system friendly, that is two thousand two. 123 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: Just in case you're wondering, that is also incorrect. Uh. 124 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: He thought this would be a great way to explore. 125 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: He thought this would be a great way to discover 126 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: a new, super convenient trade route. But at this time, 127 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: very few people knew that there was a huge land 128 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: mass two continents between the Canary Islands and Japan. So 129 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: they went to get financial support from royalty, and they 130 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: pitched their idea to the King of Portugal, and the 131 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: King of Portugal says, you guys are crazy, that's nuts. 132 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: Let's spend money on real stuff. Yeah, you crazy kids 133 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: coming in here with your pipe dreams about discovery. Bright 134 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: eyed dreamers, you know, I mean, come on, we got 135 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: no time for this here in the core. This is 136 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: this is a business. We're running a country. Get out 137 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: of here. We have to spend money hunting witches. Yeah exactly. 138 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: So then the brothers went to England to try to 139 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: talk to the king. It was Henry the seventh time, 140 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: and no dice on that one either. Um. They finally 141 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: did get an audience with the Queen of Spain, Isabella 142 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: the First and that's where you know, we we probably 143 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: all remember this part of the story. I didn't know 144 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 1: about the rejections, Ben, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, 145 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of like how Abraham Lincoln unsuccessfully tried a 146 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: couple of things and then became one of the most 147 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: lauded presidents, right, Columbus and co. The Columbus brothers met 148 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: with a couple of different rejections because seriously, think how 149 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: you would feel if someone's pitching this to you. This 150 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: is a crazy plan. They negotiated with the Catholic monarchs 151 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: for what two years? Yeah exactly, and then they ultimately 152 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: got down to brass tacks. Um. Because Isabella wasn't fully 153 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: invested in this idea of exploration, but she did see 154 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: the potential um if they discovered something, and they ultimately 155 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: decided that if they did discover something, that Columbus would 156 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: become an Admiral of the Ocean Sea, viceroy and governor 157 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: of all the new lands that he was covered for Spain, 158 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: and the ten percent of the proceeds from said new 159 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: lands would go to him, and he would also get 160 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: a stake in um new endeavors, new exploration endeavors, like 161 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: essentially a new enterprise, ten percent of all revenues from 162 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: the new lands, ten percent of everything. That's insane, right, 163 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: And then he also this is the weird one. This 164 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: shows us how the government worked at the time, and 165 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: what I would say is one of the great errors 166 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: of many monarchies or any nepotistic system, which actually guess 167 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: any system after a certain size decays due to nepotism. 168 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: He would be given the power to nominate three people 169 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: of his choice for any office he liked in the 170 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: new government. Didn't matter, their qualifications, didn't matter. They just 171 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 1: got to get that Columbus stamp. And so that is 172 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: what led to him setting sail three ships in early August. 173 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: Fast forward October twelve, Round two am of the same 174 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,359 Speaker 1: year as sailor aboard the Pinta spots land they confirmed 175 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: the sighting they shoot off a cannon. This lets Columbus, 176 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: who was on the Santa marian No, and they as 177 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: Columbus says, he sees the land, he claims it for Spain. 178 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: And this means that just claiming that first piece gives 179 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: him all that stuff that the Spanish government had promised him, 180 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: and he instantly, like in a snap, becomes viceroy and 181 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: governor of Hispaniola. He appoints his brothers and his sons 182 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: too high positions, and then the exploration turns horrific. On 183 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: his second voyage, he took off from Spain with all 184 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: of these new titles under his belt, and he took 185 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: seventeen ships this time, and you know, an absolute uh 186 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: stockpile of supplies to this new world. And Spain being 187 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,479 Speaker 1: a very intensely Catholic state, they were all about converting 188 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: people to Catholicism, and so that was a big part 189 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: of Columbus's mandate. So this is interesting. Read a lot 190 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: of books from this time period, or you know, contemporary accounts, 191 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,359 Speaker 1: and what we see is that there are some true believers. 192 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: Often they are missionaries. Right, there are some true believers 193 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: who think that they are saving people's souls even if 194 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: it results in their physical torture and death. Well, what 195 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: that guy in recent times where he was trying to 196 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: go to that island that hadn't been set foot upon 197 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: by non indigenous folks and they set in all island. Yeah, yeah, 198 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: and we've got an episode of that on a different show. Stuff. 199 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: They don't want you to know if you want to 200 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: check out this strange and increasingly tragic tale of the 201 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: North Centinel ease. Yeah, it's it's similar because although they 202 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: are true believers, there are relatively few true believers. There 203 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: are a lot of believers in terms of convenience. The 204 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: goal here is establishing control resource extraction, particularly taking u 205 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: precious metals and if possible, high value trade goods and 206 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: extracting them from the native lands, taking them to Europe 207 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,719 Speaker 1: and using those to finance the the aims of the 208 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: European government, the colonial governments there. So they need this 209 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 1: idea sort of like how a lot of countries nowadays 210 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: don't say we're going to war because we want you know, 211 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: insert resource here, rare earth metals or um, you know, 212 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: shipping rights or oil or something. They say, we're fighting 213 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: for an idea. We're fighting for an ideal. We are 214 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: saving people. So that's that's why they were like, Okay, 215 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: you can go establish a settlement, but anybody you meet 216 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: there is not Catholic has to become Catholic because that's 217 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: our cover story for doing all these horrible things. Yes, 218 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: you must supply us with X number of fresh souls. 219 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: And imagine being someone who has like you've lived on 220 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: the You've lived here your whole life, right, your family 221 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: has lived here for generations. These crazy folks who are 222 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: dressed in a very strange fashion, coming from you know, 223 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: unrecognizable ships, with all this weird technology, they ask you 224 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: bizarre things. Right, do you accept you know, Jesus Christ 225 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: is your Lord and savior as as and the Catholic 226 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: Church is the one true Church of Jesus Christ. If 227 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: you have never heard that and you have no reference point, 228 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: you don't understand what's going on. And then additionally, these 229 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: people are now saying that they own the place they 230 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: just showed up at, and then they force the people 231 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: who live there to adhere to these customs that make 232 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: you do these strange traditions. You have to you know, 233 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: you have to recite words, and those words or prayers, 234 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: but you don't know what they mean, and you don't 235 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: know why you have to say them. And you do 236 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: have to do this because if you refuse or if 237 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: you don't understand what's happening, then these forces, these Europeans 238 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: feel like they are doing the religiously correct thing by 239 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: egg exiling you, selling you into slavery, mutilating you, or 240 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: murdering you. We have some challenging, sobering, heartbreaking statistics from 241 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: a biography of Columbus called Columbus The Four Voyages from 242 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: Lawrence Burgreen. You can find in this book accounts from 243 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: people who participated in Columbus expeditions. One Michelle de Caneo, 244 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: said that Columbus ordered fifteen hundred men and women seized, 245 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: and then of those fifteen hundred, four hundred were let go, 246 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: We're set free, five hundred were sent We're going to 247 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: be sent to Spain, and another six hundred were to 248 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: be enslaved by the Spanish forces remaining on the islands. Yeah, 249 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: and then about two five hundred went to Spain died 250 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: horrifically in the voyage. From any number of things disease, malnutrition. Um, 251 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: and we're thrown into the sea. We have Remember, these 252 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: folks had absolutely no concept of what they were being 253 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: asked to do, of what Christianity was, of what the 254 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: aims of these European folks were who were laying claim 255 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: on this place. They had lived and raised their families 256 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: and you know, had a whole life and culture and friends. 257 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's mind boggling. Can you imagine yourself 258 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: in that situation, like some invading force that speaks a 259 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: language you don't understand, coming and saying, hey, we're gonna 260 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: needs you to you know, fall in line and believe 261 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: this thing that we tell you to believe, not to 262 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: mention the language barrier. I mean, the whole thing just 263 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: is very so bring. Yeah, it's a it's a frightening thing. 264 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 1: And soon after the settlement occurs and it's up and running, 265 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: the government of Spain starts receiving complaints, not just from 266 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: the native people who they probably ignored and if we're 267 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: being completely candid, did not really consider them. People are 268 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: very very racist. Uh. They get complaints from the colonists, 269 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: the colonists, the Spanish people, Spanish individuals who are living 270 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: there are complaining about what Columbus and his brothers are doing. 271 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: There's an investigation into charges against Columbus. Twenty three colonists testify. 272 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: They say the governor is not just treating us terribly, 273 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: he's treating native people even worse. And we went at 274 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: warn everyone. The next descriptions coming up are graphic, but 275 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: we would be remiss if we did not include these. 276 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: So if you have any young children listening with you now, 277 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: maybe skip ahead for a little bit. So in one 278 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: of the statements from one of those twenty three colonists 279 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: and individual reports that a man was found guilty of 280 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: stealing corn, and Christopher Columbus himself ordered this man to 281 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: have his nose and ears cut off and then sold 282 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: into slavery. Was that like a thing that they did 283 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: commonly in Spain. Was Columbus just kind of a psychopath 284 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: that was coming up with the stuff on the fly. Yeah, 285 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: I think it was just there being authoritarian because they're 286 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: trying to establish their own rule of law. We certainly 287 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: know the Spanish Inquisition yielded some of the most creative 288 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: and horrifying tortures that history has never seen. So maybe 289 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: maybe it was something that he was familiar with. Some 290 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: of those torture devices had later been found to be frauds, 291 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: but most of them, the really messed uplands are real, 292 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: like the Iron Maidens, not historically accurate for that time. 293 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: But the other stuff like the rack just branding people 294 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: for the heck of it. Another colonists says that there 295 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: was a woman who said that Christopher Columbus came from 296 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: a low birth rank. And when this person said this, 297 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: Columbus's brother ordered the woman to be forced to walk 298 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: the streets of Santo Domingo nude. But that wasn't it. 299 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: There was one more thing he ordered after she had 300 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: to walk around naked. Yeah, he ordered that you have 301 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: her tongue cut out. Um. And he Columbus reportedly congratulated 302 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: his brother Um on defending their family's good name in 303 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: doing this. And you know it goes on. I mean, 304 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: there was an Indian attack of about two thousand Indians 305 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: and you know again it says them defending their their 306 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: territory against these encroachers, and Um Alonzo de Odeja was 307 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: one of Columbus's men. He in retribution, Um had him 308 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: bring three of the leaders of this revolt to Columbus Um, 309 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: who he had publicly beheaded, and he also ordered his 310 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: men to day how who's the who's the leader? Was 311 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: like one of Columbus is kind of I guess you 312 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: could call it like a captain or underlings. Um ordered 313 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: him to grab another Indian, bring him in the middle 314 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: of the village, similarly in a display like with the woman, 315 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: and cut off his ears in retribution for the Indians 316 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: not being helpful to help the Spaniards Um and crossing 317 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: a river, so literally, you know, punishing them for not 318 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: being completely all about you know, just helping them with 319 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: whatever they needed in this invasion. Yeah, exactly. And we 320 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: do want to note here as well that we are 321 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: used when we use the phrase Indian for the group 322 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: of people, we're using the phrase that the colonists, right. Also, 323 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: Hispaniola is modern day Dominican Republic for anyone who's like, 324 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: where is this in the Caribbean, So add to that. 325 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: For first of all, I think it's very clear from 326 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: this mutilation and this enslavement that Columbus is if adhering 327 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: to the letter of his mission to spread Catholicism, he's 328 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: certainly not adhering to the laws of the book. He 329 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: purports to follow. Right, it's very un christ like. And 330 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not an authority here, but it's very 331 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: christ like to do that kind of stuff to people. 332 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: And the situation in this new settlement just gets worse 333 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: and worse and worse. The European sailors can't get used 334 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: to the food that is the common you know, like 335 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: the common staples in Hispaniola. Wheat is a staple grain 336 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: in a lot of European diets at the time, but 337 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: maze or corn is the staple in this area of 338 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: the world, and people are becoming ill because they can't 339 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: process this. They also get uncontrollable diarrhea and dysentery from 340 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: the meat or the protein they're trying to eat. But 341 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: they didn't have it near as bad as the native 342 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: population because while those guys were getting dysentery and diarrhea, 343 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: the native population was exposed for the first time ever 344 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: two accidental germ warfare the This is not something that 345 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: the Europeans at the time would have been very well 346 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: aware of, but they carried measles and smallpox with them 347 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: when they got off the ships. They also use sexual 348 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: assault on both native men and women, and the government 349 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: tacit Lee sanctioned this, you know what I mean, they 350 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: didn't pass a law. No one was punished for doing this, 351 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: and so the people who weren't dying of measles and 352 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: smallpox might contract as sexually transmitted disease, and then these 353 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: diseases would spread. You'll see, as reported by History Collection 354 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: dot Co that the men were assaulting native populations. If 355 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: they assaulted someone who already had a sexually transmitted disease, 356 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: they would of course contracted. They would go back to 357 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: Europe and they would carry it along. Right, Yes, all 358 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: that is absolutely true. Um most you know, these these 359 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: mutilations and these tortures, I mean that was more or 360 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: less sanctioned. I mean not necessarily, its sanctioned directly, but 361 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: it was the kinds of things that the government of 362 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: Spain would have been comfortable doing. Two heretics, shall we say, right, 363 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: So it was it was once we really get into 364 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 1: the really nasty territory of these sexual assaults and this 365 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: kind of just utter in humanity. Um. I mean, essentially 366 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: Columbus and his men became raping and pillaging monsters, you know, 367 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: and that word of this behavior made it back to Spain. 368 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: Violence is the only rule of law in Hispaniola at 369 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 1: the time, right, and people are starving, infrastructures breaking down. Uh, 370 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: Columbus is leader in absentia because he's traveling more and more. 371 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: He's he's going on a third voyage and in Columbus 372 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: sends a letter to the King and the Queen of 373 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: Spain and says, I need some help governing this. But 374 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: his request came is far too late, because as mentioned earlier, 375 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: the rulers of Spain already got word of the terrible 376 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: things that are happening. Ferdinand and Isabella by hundred have 377 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: already heard about what's going on, and so they remove 378 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: the Columbus family from their governmental positions and they say, hey, 379 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: you have to get back to Spain. Stop mucking about. 380 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: And as soon as the Columbus gang, I will use 381 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: gang because they were committing criminal acts. As soon as 382 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: the gang arrives, they're thrown in prison. What happens to 383 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: Columbus specifically, Yeah, I mean all of those titles that 384 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: we talked about the Columbus held so dear that were 385 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: the reward for his discoveries. He was stripped of those completely. 386 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: His rank of admiral of the ocean, sea gone, viceroy 387 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: governorship gone, and he was denied any more claim on 388 00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: this new enterprise as points were gone. Uh. Ferdinand um 389 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: released his men eventually. I think they were in prison 390 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: for about six weeks. But Columbus did petition the king 391 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: to let him do one more voyage to the New World, 392 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: which was granted. Maybe it's kind of like a consolation 393 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: prize or let the guy have his dignity. I don't know, 394 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: shot a redemption maybe, I don't know. But let's also 395 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: point out that none of those people were assaulted sexually. 396 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: None of them lost their limbs, their noses, or their ears. No, 397 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: it was an utter slap on the wrist, barely a 398 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: brush on the wrist. Yeah. Um. So he did make 399 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: that final voyage in April of fifteen o two, um, 400 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: presumably to apologize to everybody. No, No, that didn't happen. Yeah. 401 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: I don't think he was on like his third step 402 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: of whatever the explorer version of a A is now. 403 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: I don't think so either. Um. And it was super treacherous. 404 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: He was washed ashore into what is now Jamaica and 405 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: a tropical storm. Um. And he was stuck there for 406 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: a year, and he when he and his crew were 407 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: rescued and he had gotten He's getting older at this point, 408 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: and he had really bad arthritis that was caused by surprise, surprise, 409 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: come up and for columbus es, sexually transmitted disease or 410 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: a bacterial infection. History isn't sure, but he was also 411 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: bleeding from his eyes. He could barely move. He returns 412 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: to Spain. He dies there in fifteen oh four, and 413 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: Spanish administrators record so much about his life and his voyages. 414 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: He did not single handedly slaughter thousands of native inhabitants. Uh. 415 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: He is credited still with being the first European to 416 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: successfully navigate the Atlantic, even though he's completely wrong about 417 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: where he was going and he didn't exactly know where 418 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: in the world he was when he arrived. It's seen 419 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: as um the thing that opened the door for other explorers. 420 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: And so he didn't single handedly physically kill tons and 421 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: tons of people, but through his actions both as governor 422 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: and as an explorer, he created a chain of events 423 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,239 Speaker 1: that doomed entire worlds of people to death at the 424 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: at the hands of conquistadors. And what did they what 425 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: did they get? What did the Spanish people get? It? 426 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: Didn't enrich the country beyond its wildest dreams or anything. 427 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: But um, there's a great article in Jacobin that refers 428 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: to it as giving them a little bit of an edge. Um. 429 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: It gave them money to continue to hire mercenaries for 430 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: many of these wars that they had to fight, and 431 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: essentially allowed them to kind of hold on to what 432 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: they had in terms of their monarchy. But the population suffered, right, 433 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: I mean people were starving in the streets, that the 434 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: class divide was was wider and wider. The rich kept 435 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: getting richer and the poor kept getting poor. I mean 436 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: the tale as old as time. Right. Un Fortunately, until 437 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: we change, until we change things, right, Yes, it is true. 438 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: Out of all this, this tragedy, this heartbreak, this this 439 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: wanton cruelty and atrocity. Uh, the end goals of the 440 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: Spanish Empire also didn't actually work out. And that is 441 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: why people have such tremendous problems with the concept of 442 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: celebrating Christopher Columbus. We can also laundry lists really quick. 443 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: Some other disturbing things about Columbus. He forced the native 444 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: population to collect gold for him or die. Every everybody 445 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: over what, Yeah, it's like twelve or fourteen to work. 446 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: I think around fifty thousand Native people committed mass suicide 447 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: rather than dealing with the Spanish in any way. Yeah, 448 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: they would destroy the food they had stored up so 449 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: that no one could eat it. They're they're practicing real 450 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: scorched earth stuff, jumping off of cliffs, poisoning themselves with roots, 451 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: starving themselves to death, and a lot. And this came 452 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: because of this impossible requirement to deliver these tributes of gold. 453 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: And they they really thought to die as I wish 454 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: to live, is better than to be forced into this 455 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: terrible position by these strange people. Within less than sixty 456 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: years after Christopher Columbus's first voyage, only five hundred out 457 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: of three hundred thousand Native people remained in Hispaniola. This 458 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: again comes from the work of Burgreen, and it is 459 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: a little bit of gu estimation, but in fourteen two 460 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: we can guess that about three hundred thousand inhabitants between 461 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: four a third have died, half due to mass suicide 462 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: fifteen o eight populations down to sixty thousand. Not to 463 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: mention the wide practice of sexual slavery. I'm sex trafficking. Um. 464 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: I believe nine and ten year old girls um under 465 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: Columbus in this settlement were sold into sexual slavery. Disgusting. Yeah, 466 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: it's insane. Uh. And then many native slaves um were 467 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: just summarily executed when they couldn't find anyone to reunite 468 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: them with. And I mean, you know, the Spanish essentially 469 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,719 Speaker 1: treated many of these slaves just like just completely disposable um. 470 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 1: When they were kind of transporting them chained together like 471 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: in a chain gang with shackles around their neck. Rather 472 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: than bother untying them or unchaining them, they would just 473 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 1: execute them and cut their heads off exactly. Yeah, and 474 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: this is just very high level. Look, but with all 475 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: this in consideration, we can see why it is uh 476 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: disturbing to sanitize these historical events and then to have 477 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: them ignored. You're in an annual celebration, as you mentioned, 478 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: The first recorded Columbus celebration takes place in sev New 479 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: York City, but the first official holiday is in eighteen two. 480 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: It finds traction at state levels. Eventually, Columbus Day is 481 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: observed by the US as a whole. In nineteen thirty four. 482 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: Thirty four years after that, Lyndon B. Johnson signs the 483 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: Uniform Holiday bill, and this makes Columbus Day a federal holiday. 484 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: A lot of cities in this country have decided to 485 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: rename Columbus Day by calling it Indigenous People's Day. Some 486 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: states take a different tack to Hawaii calls it Discoverers 487 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: Day and Recognition of the Polynesian discoverers of the Hawaiian Islands. Uh. 488 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: And they say, provided that this day is not and 489 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: shall not be construed to be a state holiday. Uh. 490 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: And then there's a cool article that we found on 491 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: mental flaws. This might end on a little up note 492 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: for so I think we need it. Yeah, I think 493 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: we need it. Uh. So, so we found in school 494 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: article on mental flaws by Shaughnessy Pharaoh. Ten alternatives to 495 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: Columbus Days celebrated around the country, and some are pretty cool. 496 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: There's a teaching and friendship dance. The White Horse Creek 497 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: Council over in Denver is a preservation society for indigenous culture, 498 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: and they have been hosting this mini pow wow teaching 499 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: and friendship dance to sort of give Native people of 500 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: this part of the world the front seat in these stories. Yeah. 501 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: And again back to the whole you know, Italian American 502 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: community debate that is still very much a thing. I 503 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: found an article from the New York Times with the 504 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: headline why some Italian Americans still fiercely defend Columbus Day. Um, 505 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: it is a divisive issue. I mean, we know that 506 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: many folks that are held up as cultural heroes have 507 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: checkered path uts. I mean that's not unusual. But man, 508 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: given what we know about Columbus and his men and 509 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: the absolute war crimes atrocities that they committed, I don't 510 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: fully understand, um, why anyone would want to hold this 511 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: guy up. And it's not about being Italian. It's just 512 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: about you know, this legacy is left behind, and you 513 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: gotta wonder, given what we know, Um, how did Columbus 514 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: get his own holiday in the first place, especially when 515 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: other folks like Amerigo Vespucci and Francisco Pizzarro were more popular, Um, 516 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: and kind of knew where they were going. Uh. There's 517 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: a New York Times article that goes into the history 518 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,720 Speaker 1: of the holiday. And here's a quote from from this article. 519 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: As the American colonies formed an identity separate from their 520 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: English roots, colonists look to figures like the quote appointed 521 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: of God Columbus to symbolize their ideals. By the time 522 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: of the Revolution, writes John Noble, will Ford Columbus had 523 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: been transmuted into a national icon, a hero second only 524 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: to George Washington. So it's just a good example of 525 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: like the way, it's very easy to romanticize people and 526 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: overlook horrible things they've done if you can hold them 527 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: up as some kind of symbol or use them as 528 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: a stand in for your own hopes and dreams and ideals. 529 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: And going back to alternative celebrations here, I'd like to 530 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: point out for anybody in the l A area, there's 531 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: a really cool thing called the Life Before Columbus Festival. 532 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: There's also the Indigenous People's Day Music and Art Showcase. 533 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: They're in St. Paul, Minnesota, the Santa Fe Indigenous People's 534 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: Day Celebration, and Ashland, Oregon's De Colonizations Celebration. I'd love 535 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: to hear the experience of everyone who's visited one of 536 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: these celebrations or participated in them. And at this point, 537 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: it seems like the future of Columbus Day is not 538 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: looking particular really bright for Christopher Columbus right it looks 539 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: like the holiday will transform into something that's a little 540 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 1: more honest and a little less sanitized. And the thing 541 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: about history is that, you know, history is a conversation. 542 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: It's not a dead thing. It's not some old, dusty tome. Uh. 543 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: And we as people with the benefit of retrospect, must 544 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: work together. It must work ardently to find the truth. 545 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 1: Even when the truth is ugly, it's still more valuable, 546 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I do know exactly what 547 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: you mean. And it's a good thing to see the 548 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: tide turning, in my opinion, you know, against this kind 549 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: of false history of holding up this this gentleman that 550 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: clearly didn't really deserve it, and to kind of flip 551 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: it and subvert it and make it more about being 552 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: aware of indigenous people, um, who often don't get a 553 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: fair shake and who have a history of having things 554 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: kind of just taken out from under them. Um. I 555 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: think that's an important thing to remember. And so with 556 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: that doing an this episode should be out before Columbus Day. 557 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: And if you have any friends who are very very 558 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: pro Columbus, why not give this a give this a play, 559 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: recommend this, give it to a first spin, give him 560 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: a downer moment and uh, and let us know how 561 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: it works out. Thank you so much for tuning in. 562 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: Thank you to our guest super producer j J. Pass 563 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: Way j J thumbs up, thumbs down, strong thumb hard 564 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 1: to feel good after that episode tough. It's toughy. Thanks also, 565 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: of course, as always to our super producer there in Spirit, 566 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: Casey pegram a k a Us Bush is with us always. 567 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: Thanks to Alex Williams who can post our theme reussys 568 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: she has a gay Losier and Ryan Barrish. Thanks to 569 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: Christopher Hasciotis. Thanks to Eaves, Jeff Coat, thanks to you 570 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: know What. Thanks thanks to you know well Man. Thanks 571 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: to you Man. Thanks for not being a megalomaniacal, genocidal maniac. 572 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you know history is full of them. I'm 573 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: trying to do something for it. You are succeeding, my friend. 574 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from 575 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 576 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.