WEBVTT - Listen: Jon Favreau on Maximizing VFX While Minimizing Disruption 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.719 Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.080 which we talk with some of the brightest minds working 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:16.759 in media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. Last month, 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.119 I shared the stage with Jon Favreau at varieties Annual 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.040 Entertainment and Technology Summit in Los Angeles. And while there's 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.720 plenty to say about his career as an actor, producer, 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.040 and writer, in this conversation, we focused on his work 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.760 as a director, specifically his innovations and visual effects, from 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.440 The Lion King to his upcoming Disney Plus series The Mandalorian, 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.320 the latest from the Star Wars franchise. Here's an edited 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:49.479 recording of our conversation. We're going to talk today at 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:54.160 the Entertainment and Tech Summit about, as I said, really 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:57.000 pioneering work you've done in recent years with regard to 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:02.520 visual effects. UM, you know, think back to uh we saw. 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:04.720 I think when you directed The Jungle Book. I think 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.280 it was what you did with motion capture. You were 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.800 just kind of starting to really play with the tools 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.280 of the trade. But you took it to a whole 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.800 new level this year with Lion King, and we'll talk 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.360 a bit about that animation and of course uh you've 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.320 got upcoming on Disney, plus the new Star Wars series 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.440 and the Loureans. Right, so let's start there. Because you 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:30.200 were at D twenty three, the big Disney fan convention 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.680 just a few weeks ago, introducing that. What was it 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.720 like to get out in front of really the super 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.480 fans with something you've been sort of white hiding close 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.280 to the vest for a while. It's I've had an 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:45.479 interesting relationship with the fans part of how the industry 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:50.320 has has changed, whether it was Comic Con or D 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.320 twenty three or now Star Wars celebration. It's a really interesting, 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:58.680 wonderful opportunity for on the one hand, to present your 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.360 message almost like a political grassroots kind of way, like 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.600 going to your fan base and saying, here's what we're 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.160 up to. And because of social media, that that resonates 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.440 outward and I think a lot of the successive Iron 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.680 Man could be attributed to that core group that echoed 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.639 out from Comic Con. But it's also a wonderful opportunity 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.079 to actually get a relationship within the case of those 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.919 those uh events. I think at the twenty three there's 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.680 like seven people in the audience, so you get this 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.040 wave of energy back at you and at your cast 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.359 and then the people who are working on the project. 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.280 Generally you show that about a year or only the 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.840 first look, and so it really puts wind in your 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.560 sales and he gets the whole team to get excited 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.320 that we're working on something, as you said, in a vacuum. 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:51.720 But but you get this really uh sincere authentic feedback 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.560 directly from the people, and that energy is something that 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.520 really carries you forward. Is there a pressure though, that 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.639 comes with not just serving a fan base that has 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.959 very high expectations, but you're you know, this is Star 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.359 Wars and this is also the really going to be 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.640 the big show for a new streaming service and Disney Plus. 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.000 Are there are like additional pressures that come with all that. 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.280 I mean, there's always I don't look down, so it 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.360 doesn't that doesn't like I don't know how far up 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.160 the tight rope is. I know that if you engage 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.480 with the people around you and if you can delight 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:30.720 if you're a fan, and you could delight yourself, and 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.799 then you have a core group of people who are 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:37.280 really invested in the outcome, whether it's people on your 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.520 team and your family or or the first layer of 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.480 audience that is highly engaged. I think the lesson from 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.800 Marvel was start with that group and and work your 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.880 way out, as opposed to trying to average things down 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.120 and make it appealing to the least common denominator denominator 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.440 of your audience. I think in this very vocal this 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.560 time of very vocal audiences, you see that they're very 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.960 reactive to material. Used to be, you know, if you 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.880 marketed a movie, well, you could get a big weekend 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.160 out of it, even if the movie wasn't great. Nowadays 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.560 you could see those numbers dip because everybody's talking to 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.800 one another on social media, so the audience is becoming 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.000 a big part of the conversation. And so I think 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.000 it's incumbent upon us, and I think it's always good 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.480 to do so anyway, to just make sure that you 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.520 respect the audience and engage with them, and then they'll 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.080 if you've done a good job, they'll they'll help signal 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.440 boost you and and and and take it to the 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.400 next level. It's not unlike politics in many ways, oddly 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.120 the way that you have to engage because it's it's 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.640 many tiered, but the first tier has to be the 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:47.080 people who are already there. Well, looking ahead at the Mandalorian, 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.359 you know, I think people now come to expect a 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.440 John Favreau project is going to have it's they're gonna 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.279 have the visual wow of The Jungle Book, the Lion King. 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.600 What in the Mandalorians do you think people will impressed 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.119 with and explain sort of the technology that you're using 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.560 to deliver that visual pop. Well, I think that that 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.039 that you know, you always have to talk about technology 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.840 with its marriage to storytelling at least that's the nexus 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.800 point that that I think is is the crux of 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.320 the whole thing, because whether it's a story you're telling 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.920 on the screen or a story you're telling through selling 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.039 this new technology and presenting it to people. As Steve 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:32.440 Jobs would, our our entryway into new technologies and innovations 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.480 is always the story that we're telling through that innovation. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:37.920 And in the case of what I do, it's very 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.360 a very clean version of it because you're actually telling 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.000 a story to people. It's not just a story in 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.080 marketing or not just a story in publicity, but it's 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.000 a story that they're going to see depicted, and the 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.839 technology is something that has to serve that story and 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.800 interact with it, inspire it. So in the case of 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.520 Star Wars, and each of these is a different puzzle, 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:58.919 you know. With with Lyon King, we had a different 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.960 set of parameters and used a different set of technologies 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.560 than we do for Star Wars. For Star Wars, the 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.160 parameters were, how do you make it feel like Star Wars? 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:09.960 How do you how can I tell a story set 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.320 in this particular time which is for those of you know, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.279 Star Wars after Return of the Jedi, after the Empire falls, 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.400 what's this gritty world? I was always interested in what 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.320 inspired George Lucas originally, which were samurai films and westerns, 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.720 and how do I find a time period and a 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.720 waited to pick that in a in a manner and 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:32.159 a scale that is evocative of the material and the 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.360 stories that inspired George originally. And so part of what 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.600 we're doing too, you know, we have to work within 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.479 the parameters of what the streaming services and so in 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.920 many ways it follows the structure of a television show 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.440 in that you don't have endless post production, you don't 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:51.120 have endless budget, and it's really was served by the 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:55.279 scale of the original, which isn't the big, huge blockbuster 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.480 movies that that we see on the big screen all 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.480 the time. The original Star Wars were a bit more 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:04.679 intimate and character driven, and so we are using technology 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.359 that's makes best use of that scale. And part of 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.400 what we're exploring is is using game engine real time rendering, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.160 because with all the compositing that we're doing, we could 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.560 either do it in camera using video walls. Were were 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.120 the first production to actually take advantage of innovations that 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:25.920 have been taking place. In this case, we're working with 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.440 I l M and with Epic Unreal Engine, with Magnopus, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.240 a lot of people that I've worked with before on 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.200 other projects, and we try to create a new way 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.520 to use this real time rendering where you can actually 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.400 do in camera effects on video walls with camera tracking 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.160 and parallax. Uh that want to work for for Lying 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.640 King Bequesse, that's jungles and animals and fur here it's 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:55.680 hard surfaces, spaceships, planets, you know, uh sand So it 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.280 has to do with what the capabilities of the technology are. 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.920 But underlying, you know, we used a game engine to 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.960 make Lion King. We use Unity and we work with 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.920 MPC and so what I'm finding is that by taking 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.600 advantage of all these innovations and working and collaborating with 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.040 all these different companies. UH, it's great for the project 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.440 because you get all of this new learning and all 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.160 of this enthusiasm to try to be innovative, and and 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.440 it ends up serving the audience well because it's is 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.200 beautiful um end product that they wouldn't have otherwise gotten. 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.400 And then the companies that collaborate with are happy because 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.839 whatever we innovate there, they then branch off and innovate further. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.640 And so just coming from those two projects, MPC has 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.000 a virtual camera suite that they do we worked with, 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:47.800 Epic now has built into their new system, UH, a 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.559 filmmaking system that takes advantage of parallax and camera position 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.439 that they're going to be launching. I l M has 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:56.800 stagecraft that they've refined, which is something that started with 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.480 George all the way back and and I believe the 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.360 Prequels that is also an in camera way to do 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:06.160 real time render. And Magnopus as a company that's branched 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.800 off and is innovative in that space as well. So 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.560 all of these companies that that we work with then 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:17.640 can bring this culture, which is basically storyteller and creative, 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.960 friendly use of technology in a way that takes advantage 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.600 of the traditions of cinema and not disrupting them completely, 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.400 and then hopefully that echoes out and creates further innovation 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.560 as other filmmakers collaborate and work with that technology. And 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:36.559 that collaboration I think was key to this new organization 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.680 or initiative that you've developed called Golem Creation. Yeah. Yeah, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.320 talk a bit about what you were tempted to do 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.520 with this new entity. Well, I found I thought I 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.720 was being drawn to all sorts of disparate projects because 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:51.600 if you look at my list of things I'm working on, 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.800 I have a stop motion Christmas special that I'm working 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.600 on with the guys who I did stop motion for Elf, 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.560 the Kyota Brothers. I have a VR project with a 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.520 company called Weaver called Gnomes and Goblins that we've been 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.360 working on for for for I think five years, getting 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:11.280 ready to launch a bigger product of that, Mandalorian, which 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:16.920 is using in camera effects and real time render, Lion King, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:23.160 which is basically creating a multiplayer v our filmmaking game 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.960 that we created the whole movie in, and then short 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.040 form pieces. So there's there's this whole weird array, and 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.280 I realized that all of them have something in common 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:39.160 that they're all about the nextus point of innovative technologies 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:44.200 and developing new technologies to serve storytelling and the filmmaking community, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.760 and whether it's innovating based on new production techniques that 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.840 we're developing or innovating based on technology associated with new 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:56.840 platforms and distribution. There is a way for filmmaking and 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.920 technology to continue the dance that they've been in for 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.560 hundred years that have created uh breakthroughs for both. And 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.520 at this point in my career, I created Golem Golem 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.760 Creations because it seems to be more of a catch 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:16.160 all for the technological side of filmmaking as opposed to 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.040 having a production company where we're pouring over scripts and 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.200 trying to find new things to develop and trying to scale. 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:26.160 The company is very small, and it's all about collaborating 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:30.800 with other companies and other filmmakers and and creating content myself. 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.720 That is exciting because it's not just telling a story, 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.719 but it's also innovating and shaping the course of the 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.960 way the industry moves. I mean, it's interesting when you're 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:43.840 saying that you're working on projects that the implications of 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.760 which really have these reverberations for the rest of the industries, 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:56.359 certainly because disruption is often and can be negative. But 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.000 but there's an opportunity with each innovation. And I think 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.200 that it's always been seen is a zero sum game. 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.240 And for a long time, you used to work with 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.920 your crew on a movie that were like the production 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.200 designers and the cinematographers, and then you'd have the visual 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.199 effects supervisor and they would kind of be fighting the 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.040 zero sum game and it odds with one another, and 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.960 slowly I found people from both sides of the aisle 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.000 that were excited by the opportunities that the other presented. 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:23.920 And then you when you start to realize that that 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:29.840 collaborating not only helps the innovations be more effective, but 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.079 it also allows for us to preserve the skill set 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.360 and push it forward. Of you know, work with calab Deschanel. 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.960 Kale Deschanel, amazing cinematographer, never did an effects driven movie 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:42.839 in his life. We hired him to do Lion King. 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.480 We built a tool set by which he could operate cameras, 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.040 set lights, have dolly track, have a whole live action 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.200 crew around him and basically take what would have been 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.160 a completely animated movie and bring in the human element 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.080 to help set cameras in the layout phase. So if 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:03.280 you visited this that of the Lion King, there would 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:04.679 have been if you came in the beginning I was 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:06.840 working with animators, it would have looked like a Pixar movie. 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.319 We did layout, we did character animation, everything was in 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.280 their animatic storyboards. But if you came during our production period, 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.760 you would have seen an a D team, Dolly Grips, 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.800 a crane um, Caleb Deschanel on the wheels. You would 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.520 have seen a script supervisor, full crew running with the 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.600 cadence of a real production. Now, if that was left 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.360 to its own devices, it would have been the people 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.280 who were coding all of this new technology would have 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.839 been setting the lights, moving the cameras, doing what you 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:42.199 do in pre vis. But you benefit from having the 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.640 skill set of these people who have spent their entire 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.360 lives developing this art and this craft. And so what 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.360 happens is the people from the film world start learning 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.680 about the technology, start requesting things like, Hey, I would 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.520 you know I wish I could have an analog focus 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.560 pulling knob so that my camera assistant could could control 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.480 when we rack focus, and so he brings in a 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.839 piece of equipment. They take the weekend and code that 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.880 next thing. You know, there's a tool that pulls focus 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.160 with a focus puller, as opposed to somebody just changing 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:18.319 parameters with a keyboard. At the same time, he's teaching 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.000 them how to light, because you light a video game 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.080 different than you light a movie. And so now you 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.640 have this wealth of experience that's being passed down from 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.120 Caleb to the people who are setting lights at the 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.320 boxes on the perimeter of the stage. And also as 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.880 a director, I can now interact with this whole creative 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:36.800 chain of command that I'm used to from my whole career. 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.080 And we could scout together in VR so that I 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.760 don't have to stand over somebody's shoulder and tell them 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:44.680 where I want the Dolly track and what I want 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.880 the shot to be. We could walk around and look 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:48.640 around and say, hey, this is a good background, this 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.120 is a good angle, and you have this iterative creative 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.360 process that preserves the way I came up as a director. 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.800 And now that that film has been successful, we've created 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.640 a paradigm where if other people say, how did Lion 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.080 came it, They're going to be inheriting that whole infrastructure 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.280 as opposed to using that same technology, it could have 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.160 looked like a video game design studio, which is totally different. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.480 Disruption doesn't have to be so disruptive when you plan 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:17.560 according What I also thought could be disruptive, though, was 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.400 the very technology that you employed in The Lion King, 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.000 where you've got photo realistic animation. I'm sitting there watching 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:30.040 this incredible picture, thinking is this the beginning of a 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.000 slippery slope or even a movie populated entirely by humans 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:39.240 could be created in an animated sense using these technologies. Look, 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.280 I think the implications go much further than that. Like 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.960 a movie, whether it's an animated human or not animated human, 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.480 is I'm worried about a you know, deep fake, I'm 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.640 worried about I'm worried about a news flash, not a 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.320 movie as much. But I think that part of what's 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.040 interesting about this is is it shows us where the 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:05.840 technology is and it requires human vigilance, and you know, 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.640 there's always that's That's That's also the story of the Golem, 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:13.040 which is, you know, the golem can could rampage the 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.520 countryside or could protect the village. We have to make 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.600 sure that we engage with technology in a way that 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.040 serves humanity, and the best way to do it is 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:27.760 to is to be mindful, collaborative and aware. Um. What 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.200 I like to do as far as just answering your 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.960 your question about the implications in the film industry is 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.200 to infuse you know, these are just tools. Lion King 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.640 is the most handmade movie I've ever worked on. Every 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:46.320 frame was poured over by artists, the actors. We we 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:51.200 filmed the actors for reference, to get their performances, to 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.480 get improv overlapping. At the end of the day, the 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.920 animators interpolate that performance into animals. But there will be 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:02.360 at some point the ability to completely track people in 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.359 and have a digital version of it. I would contend 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.720 that part of what we the biggest thing we connect 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.800 with as humans as other human behavior, and so a 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.920 computer is not generating it from scratch. They're simply making 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.520 it look better and more convincing. But at its core, 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.600 if you didn't have Billy Eichner and Seth Rogan improving 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.840 and coming back and banging around, I don't think that 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.000 that would have been an entertaining the team on I 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.159 Pumba would not have been entertaining characters. By the same token, 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.399 every environment that's been designed to hold a mirror up 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.600 to nature that wasn't just created by a computer, that 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.720 was created by hundreds of artists. And so you have 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.480 this collaboration where people are having to create every single 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.280 aspect of it. You don't inherit anything by going out 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.879 into into nature and setting a camera. You have to 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.520 create everything that you photograph. So I think that it 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.119 is good to be cautious and understand what the implications 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.359 of technology represent. But I think that there is a 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:02.880 way to have it, uh boost the opportunities of creativity 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.360 because your imagination is no longer fettered in the same 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.560 way by the shortcomings of of what you can achieve 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.439 in film. So I think that it's there. There are 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.440 two sides to that coin, and and that's that's honestly 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.080 why I want to focus on this so much now 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.040 because I feel I'm in a in a in a 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.080 unique position to help inform that conversation. I think it's 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.680 an important conversation and do you but you know, to 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.600 take it where too deep fake territory? Are you even 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.840 thinking about that level in terms of what society can 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.160 protect with that kind of footage. Well, it's the same 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.119 people innovating for all these things, and so technology when 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.119 you understand what AI is doing and how things are 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.560 how how there's machine learning and I'm glad that they 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.600 have deep fake videos on on on YouTube. I want 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:53.639 people to understand it in a way where it's not 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.879 so charged, so they could say, oh, wow, that's what 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.960 that's what technology is capable of. And we all know 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.119 more as law, it's just going to get more, And 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.159 so we have to ask some questions of ourselves as 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.720 a society and as a culture of how do we 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.680 I don't think the Ostrich method of sticking your head 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.879 in the ground is going to save you know, anybody 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.920 from from the challenges of the future. I think that 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.600 we have to have um we have to engage with 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.040 it in a way that is thoughtful and in a 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.600 way that takes into consideration where we think things are going. 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.920 And but does that imply that you could possibly like 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.720 it seems to me that technology does what technology does, 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:39.239 So are there really any safeguards an industry or an 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.600 internet company could put on this to control the situation. 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:45.480 I think you have to explain. I'm not an expert 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.200 in this area, so I can only speculate as you would. 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:55.720 But what I would say is that focusing your attention 0:19:55.920 --> 0:20:02.520 on things that are potentially problematic is a good is 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.159 a good step. And I think that when people are 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.120 unaware or ignore the trends that are happening is when 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:14.920 you get caught off balance. And what gives me, what's 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.760 encouraging to me, is that the people who are behind 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.159 all of this, it's just it's people and and and 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:23.880 and and there are a lot of people who share 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.200 common values and I and I don't think it's for 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.639 a lack of concern or a lack of being motivated 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.480 to make the world a better place moving forward. Uh, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.560 But I think that, you know, there's sort of this 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.400 balancing act that we have to find where where where 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.160 you're not ringing an alarm belt and freaking everybody out 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.280 just to get their attention. You know, you don't want 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.600 the car alarm going off all the time, otherwise you 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.080 can't hear the car alarm anymore. But by the same token, 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:58.399 you don't want to be um optimistic without having uh, 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.760 just trusting that things are going to work out in 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:07.359 a positive way. I think the you know, the challenge 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.280 of our time is to find a way to to 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:14.000 to benefit from all the wonderful aspects that technology has 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:15.719 to offer. And I think that if you look at 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:21.040 trends over time, it's a net gain like we we 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:25.320 have even in just our lifetime seen just by any 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:32.160 measure of of you know, the the positive positive limitation 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.320 of you know, the elimination of suffering, the health benefits, 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:42.000 life expectancy, people being pulled up out of poverty like 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:47.480 technology can help. There's there's no argument that technology can 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.960 be a net gain. The question is how do we 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:55.119 how do we protect against unintended consequences and innovation And 0:21:55.240 --> 0:22:00.320 that's and that's the story of every fable surround ending 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:05.240 innovations and technology. There's always the Sorcerer's Apprentice story of 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.200 the mops getting too many buckets of water. You know, 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.520 that's what it is, that's Frankenstein. That's the goal of 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.320 So I think the trick is how do you how 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.359 do you engage with it? You know, it's what do 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.160 they say with first lesson in surfing, you don't turn 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.280 your back to the water. You don't turn your back 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:26.359 to the sea, have a healthy respect for these about 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:30.200 what's going on. Uh, but let's get like minded people 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.760 to engage with it in a way where we maximize 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:36.200 the upside and and minimize the downside. You got on 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:40.080 this innovation track by working in virtual reality, and you 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.520 talked about getting back to the Gnomes and Goblins. Uh. 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.680 Is the virtual reality market where you think it needs 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:50.880 to be in terms of you know, pouring your energies 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:55.080 in a VR project. Yeah, well, I don't know how 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:57.800 to time the market like that's not the way. I 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.280 don't know that. I would have thought that v would 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.840