WEBVTT - Salem Witchcraft Trials: More Bonkers Than You Know 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.760 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:17.000 There's Charles w Chuck, Brian over there, there's Jerry over here, 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.080 uh lurking around like a bit of a ghoul because 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.200 it is the Halloween season after all. Uh, and this 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:30.400 is stuff you should that's right spooky which trials Yeah, yeah, 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.320 it is. It's really nice to like have stuff like 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.599 this that you can be removed from by a few 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.960 hundred years, and you know, it just kind of evokes 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.960 that Halloween spirit or whatever. But Chuck, I have found, 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.960 just in recently researching this, if you put yourself into 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:50.120 the position that people who are like walking to the 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.120 gallows and like think about how nuts all this was, 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.760 it is exponentially scarier on a much more existential level. 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.000 It goes beyond like Halloween spooky too. This is a 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:05.800 genuinely frightening event in the history of America. No kidding, 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:10.240 I mean like it was messed up in every way, 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.560 shape or form. So I take it you never read 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.399 The Crucible. I did read the Crucible, but I read 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.679 it and didn't do it. No, it really didn't, because 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.200 I don't I don't know if it was me. Maybe 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.039 I wasn't mentally or emotionally prepared to accept it on 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.880 that level, who knows, But no, it was it was 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.920 like imagining myself in the shoes of the people who 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:36.880 were going to die. Um, that got me researching. Yeah 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:41.640 that's dark, no, uh no, no shade though on Arthur Miller, 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.600 he was great and his play was great, and it 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.840 was very timely for the time. Yeah. I mean, you know, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:51.120 there's been so many kind of movie adaptations and TV 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.160 movie adaptations about this time, and I'm still waiting first 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.840 sort of the one great one that's not the Crucible. Well. 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.680 I think part of the reason why there hasn't been 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.360 that great one yet is because historians are still like 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:11.400 actively competing explaining just what exactly happened in Salem. It's 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.720 such an anomaly even among like Puritans, even among people 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:17.840 who believe there was such a thing as witchcraft and 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:22.839 even executed witches. This was a genuine anomaly, at least 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.639 as far as American history goes. And I think because 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.320 they don't understand it fully, it's difficult to really get 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.520 the point across as well. You know, I don't know, man, 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.600 I think you can make a great movie like look 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.560 at the Witch that that danced around it, so well, 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:38.920 like you just need a movie like that. But based 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.000 on this, well, why don't we just say the Witch 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.240 then as the is all we need? Well because it 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.320 wasn't about the Salem witch Trials, but I mean it 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.520 was so analogous to it and took place in at 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.200 the same time, you know, I mean, just pretend like 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.640 there's a trial scene that they cut it they cut out, 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.200 and there actually a lot of other people they drag. 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:03.440 They dragged the father into work basically and and excommunicate them. 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.240 So there is almost like a witch trial scene right there. Yeah, 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:12.240 that's true, the which is the Salem witch trial movie 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.960 We've always needed, That's right. So I'm glad we we 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.520 resolved that. You must feel very satisfied. Now, yeah, completely disagree, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.280 but I'm just moving on. So, um, everybody knows about 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.080 the Salem witch Trials, right, but I think because you know, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.280 we learned about it in American history, you hear about 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.120 it as Halloween stories all of that kind of stuff. 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.160 But like I said, I mean, we really genuinely don't 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.200 understand what happened. And that's despite the fact that it 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.640 is really well documented because a lot of the stuff 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.800 took place in the courts, and they wrote a lot 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:49.000 of stuff down. But we only have like official primary 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.440 documents that were written by people who were aware that 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.760 these were public documents, rather than say a trove of 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.520 private journals and letters. The Puritans didn't do that that much, 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.520 and so we don't have like kind of the underneath 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:06.120 the official line explanation for what happened. Well, yeah, and 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.760 if if people are confused by what we mean there, 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.200 you know, there were other witch trials in other places 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.320 in the Young America, there were other witch trials in 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:21.600 centuries previous in other countries, and there were mild panics 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:27.120 and stuff. But Salem like collectively lost their mind for 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.600 a short period of time. And that's what people still 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.000 don't get there, like why why did that happen only 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:38.200 there to to this scope and this degree? Uh? And 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.599 you know, people have looked at various biological reasons and 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.159 things like that, but I don't know. I think it 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.320 was just sort of one of those weird things that 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.200 could only happen like at one place in one time. Yeah, exactly. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.240 And there was actually a guy who wrote a book 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:58.120 in two named John Demos, and he said, not only 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:03.000 can it happen like under these very specific circumstances, here 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.000 are the circumstances that could happen in And he his 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.400 book wasn't just about Salem. It mentioned Salem, but it 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.440 was about like witchcraft trials and panics and accusations in 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.800 New England in general. And he basically said that when 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.960 a town starts out really small and it's like a 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:22.040 colonial town, they're living like on the razor's edge of existence. 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.240 A lot of them don't really know each other. They're dying, 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.480 so there's a big population turnover as newcomers come in 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.080 and there's just not enough familiarity to say I think 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.880 you're a witch to accuse your neighbor or something like that. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:36.839 But then after they settle in a little while and 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.760 maybe there's like some boredom and everybody gets to know 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.320 each other and you have grudges, but you're still living 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.200 in a really small area, that's when the witchcraft accusations 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.040 can really take place. And Salem seems to have kind 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:53.200 of followed that pattern to that these witch witchcraft accusations 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.440 like really took hold at a time where the colony 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.440 was under tons of stress. People knew each other, had 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.680 had deck aids, long rivalries and lane disputes, and they 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.480 lived still in a very small little village, and they 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.600 were basically crawling all over one another and saw one another, 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:13.119 and you could not get away from people you didn't like. Yeah, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.279 and this is especially true in Salem. That was Salem Village, 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.200 in Salem Town, And like you said, they were stacked 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.279 on each other and there were a lot of uh like, hey, 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.560 your cow can't graze over this imaginary line because that's 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.240 my land and you're not even allowed to build a 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:35.600 fence over there, like kind of common land disputes that 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.960 have happened throughout history. But in Salem they were just 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.760 they were. They were described as a very quarrelsome people. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.839 They were. They fought and argued a lot, kind of 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.000 more so than it seems like even other Puritans and 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.560 other parts of the country. Yeah, and the Puritans in 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.039 general were deeply litigious. They took each other to court 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.240 at the drop of a hat, at the drop of 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.279 a hat with a belt buckle on it. Um. But 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:05.440 they they they had like the way that they supported 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.480 that um, that kind of litigiousness was to say most 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:10.800 of the courts would be like, you need to go 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.840 handle this privately, and then this kind of secondary mediation 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.360 kind of thing would come in and there being negotiations 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.480 and then the dispute would be resolved. But the first 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.680 thing that they would do is drag one another into court. 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.800 That was how they would get one another's attention. Yeah, 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.880 And so this is sort of the backdrop of what's 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:33.320 going on in the Massachusetts Bay Colony and particularly in 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.200 Salem Village in Salem Town, which I think I think 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.600 Salem Village today is dan verse and then Salem Town 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:47.000 is Salem that's right, still around and still has spooky connotations. Yeah, 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.840 And dan Versus where the Um the State Asylum was located. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.360 That was the setting for one of the greatest horror 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:58.080 films of all time, Session nine. Oh that's right, man, 0:07:58.240 --> 0:07:59.520 that's a movie I don't even know if I want 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.240 to see again. It's so good. I saw it a 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.560 year or two ago and it's still just as good. 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.240 It's great. Um. All right, So the Puritans were in control. 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.600 I guess the back backdrop of this was they were 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.800 full on, you know, human holocausts in Europe in the 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:19.240 sixteenth and seventeenth centuries with their witch crazes and things 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.200 got really out of hand over there. But by the 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.120 time folks got to be here, they were mainly just 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.240 arguing a lot. And there were you know, there was 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.640 a small witch panic in Connecticut. Uh, not small if 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:31.920 you were one of the people accused, but it didn't 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.440 quite get out of hand, um, certainly in that like 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.000 it did in Europe in centuries previous. And I saw 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.319 an explanation, Um, I want to give a shout out 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:40.880 to a couple of sites. But when I got a 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.720 lot of info from is called the historic present, and um, 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.840 they were pointing out that like for the most part, yes, 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:52.679 people generally agreed that there were such things as witches, um, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.440 And yes you would accuse your neighbor of witchcraft, but 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.400 it was kind of like it was a way of 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.839 like getting your neighbor's attention, like a serious about this 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.640 and publicly accusing you being a witch. Let's talk about 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.600 your cow grazing on on my land, you know. Um. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.280 And that was another thing that made Salem so anomalous. 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.320 Is it just kept going and going through these steps 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.960 of like the court in trial and then finally executions 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:21.320 and and it. It just got out of hand basically, right. 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.679 So the Puritans are in control in the Massachusetts Bay Colony. 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.560 They've got an iron fist on on ruling. They don't 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.640 like basically anybody who is not a Puritan. It seems 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.840 like most of the Puritans didn't even like each other. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.839 But they certainly didn't like Quakers, they didn't like Catholics, 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.359 and they did all they could to really establish themselves 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.040 as the ones in charge and did so well. Yeah, 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.280 it depends on who you're talking about. Though. There were 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:52.600 some Puritans who were deeply conservative religious leaders like Increased 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:57.520 mather Um, who wanted to just completely secure Puritan control. 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.439 But there was also like a real um read through 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.960 the Puritan leadership that was willing to like give like 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.280 voting rights and and um the ability to be elected 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:12.439 into office to non Puritans who lived in in town um. 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.920 And they had kind of a proto democracy in a 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.520 lot of ways. So it's like the Puritans in general, Yes, 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.640 we're deeply intolerant of Quakers and Catholics, and they actually 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.040 tortured Quakers um who were unrepentant UM, but they also 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.079 did have they weren't just like this the band of 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:34.440 like theocratic thugs that that they're often painted as. There's 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.120 just more nuance to it than that. But yes, there 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.120 were plenty who were like, no, we just need total 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:44.280 puritanical control over over this whole colony. Yeah, and you know, 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:48.800 as we'll see once the witch trials were conducted. You know, 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:52.160 I said that Salem collectively lost their mind sort of 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.280 true in a way, and that a lot of people 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.959 in power and the decision makers did. But there were 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.640 still people even while it was going on. It wasn't 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:01.520 like hundred percent of the town was behind this. There 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.280 are a lot of people and I guess they were 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.400 probably some of those reasonable people you know that you 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.880 were talking about that were like, you know what we're doing? 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.120 Is it right? I don't think they really spoke up 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.280 to vocally, but they were like, what is going on here? 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.800 This is getting out of handing kind of crazy. Yeah, 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.320 I mean, it was such a dangerous situation where it 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.079 was one of those kind of fascist situations where people 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.200 who did dare to speak out against this and say 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.120 this is crazy, this is wrong, or even to like 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.320 testify on behalf of somebody who was accused, you were 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.959 putting your own life at risk. Like there's a possibility 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.000 you would be accused of witchcraft and then tried and 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.480 then executed. It was that kind of a situation, even 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.840 with people on the outside being knowing that this is wrong, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:48.960 it was just such a inevitable machine that it was 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.679 like people just stayed out of its way for a 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:56.720 little while. All Right, I think that is a healthy preamble. Okay, 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:01.280 the foundation is laid. I think we should take a break, okay, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.280 and come back talk about those mother boys right after this. 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:37.880 I concur stuff you should stuff you shouldn't, you should know. Okay, Chuck, 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:42.560 so you want to talk some mothers. That's the Beaver. 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.240 He's still around, I believe by the way, he still 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.280 looks like he's one of those guys that stayed the same. Huh. Yeah. 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.040 I think it doesn't help that he dresses the same 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.800 still too, But you can recognize him even in a 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.280 tux I'm guessing. So you can't talk about out the 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.720 Salem witch trials without talking about the Mathers. I'm talking 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.160 about the elder mother whose name was Increase of these 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:13.000 Puritan names, and uh, the younger mother, Cotton Mather. He 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.720 was the son son of a mother, so Increased Mother. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:18.720 He was, like you said, he was sort of the 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.600 staunch Puritan who was in a position of power. He 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.040 was working to establish a charter that would, you know, 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.600 basically give the Puritans all the power. He was also 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.560 a believer, and you know, because I mentioned that the 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.560 European witch trials like this is sort of the background 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.400 that allowed people like Increased Mother and Cotton Mother to 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:43.880 really legitimately believe that demons were real and Satan could 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.520 overtake and possess someone, and that there were real witches. 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.560 I mean, that was just generally the puritanical worldview, but 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.439 some people were much more preoccupied with it than others. 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.680 And the Mathers were both deeply preoccupied with this kind 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.160 of thing, and Increase other gets a lot of the 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.800 blame for this, and and rightfully so, but there's a 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.880 lot of lesser known people who actually were way more 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.280 villainous during this and really took advantage of this crazy situation. 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.559 And and really I just didn't didn't care about the 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.880 lives of innocent people. But he was. He was not good, 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.200 and that he helped fan the flames of this initially 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.760 big time. That's right, Um, so should we I mean 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:27.720 we'll we'll get a little bit more into the matters 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.720 as we go. Uh. Cotton was certainly one of the 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.000 villains of the trials, and they were both writing books 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.080 about supernatural things. So this was all sort of the 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:41.920 foundation that was laid when the first two people, uh 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:48.160 were accused in what January of Yeah, So to to start, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.560 there were two girls ages nine eleven. There was Betty Paris, 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:57.760 Elizabeth Paris was her name, and Abigail Williams. And they 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:04.720 basically started barking and convulsing and just behaving really bizarrely 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:09.240 and strangely and would not stop. And so Samuel Paris, 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.200 who was the head of the Salem Village church it 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:17.680 was actually pretty divisive figure apparently, UM, he brought in 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.480 a doctor and the doctor proclaimed this to be bewitchment, 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.320 that these girls were bewitched. And that's ultimately what kicked 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.400 the whole thing off. And a lot of people have 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.760 tried to figure out like what initially started that because 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:34.480 just about everybody who has a theory about this um 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.880 immediately converts to mass hysteria. But you still have that 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.880 first that first case of Abigail Williams and or Elizabeth 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:49.280 Paris to to explain, and apparently it was like really 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.240 prolonged stuff. They were vomiting, they were doing stuff beyond 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.080 just like behaving weirdly. They were they seemed to be 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.800 physically afflicted. And that's another thing too that I think 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.640 your theories that say like it was just a hoax 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.240 that these girls perpetrated, that doesn't understand like just how 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.920 long these girls carried out this stuff, And I think 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.320 it kind of ignores the fact that there are also 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.480 like the Puritans weren't dumb people. They were deeply religious, 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.640 they believed in witches and Satan having you know, a 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.440 hand on things here on earth. But they also were 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.440 very smart, very practical, and they would have seen right 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.640 through a couple of girls just planning a hoax or 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.320 carrying out a hoax. So there has to be something 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.400 there at the beginning that no one has ever fully 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.840 explained that kicked this whole thing off. Yeah, I mean 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.520 it's hard not to become a little obsessed with some 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.840 sort of biological route I know or got poisoning has 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.920 been mentioned. I saw encephalitis. Oh, I saw that one too. 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.000 That was interesting. Yeah, and just some other like possible 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.160 reasons of like maybe something physically was wrong with them, 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.840 while they also happened to be goofing around with folk 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.440 magic and stuff like that. Not not a good combination 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.480 to like get sick while you're being a kid and 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.159 playing around was essentially what they were doing. Yeah, but 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.760 I mean, if you if you think about the fact 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.200 that the the adults were like, okay, this is this 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.600 is significant enough that we're going to start looking around 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.240 for the witches, and the girl started accusing people too, Um, 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.119 it does seem like there was something going on with 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.760 at least one of them. And then yes, it started 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.840 to spread, probably through mass hysteria to other girls in 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.159 the village. It kind of makes when I when I 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.800 read the sort of timeline account, I feel like if 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.600 that original doctor hadn't said the word, which it could 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.679 have gone in a completely different direction. Yeah, he should 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.240 have just been like, it's um anti N M D 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.560 A R and cephalitis and dummies an autoimmune disease that 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.080 will only begin to grasp in thees and everyone would 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.160 say you're a witch, right, he just see some crazy words, doc, 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:59.560 So uh, the doctor has has breathed the word, which um, 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.440 the girls are like, um, They're like, hey, what's going 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.200 on with you, and they said, uh, you know, it's Tituba. 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:11.160 It is my father's slave to Tuba, and it's her 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.040 fault and she's a witch. And so they, like you said, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.720 they started accusing, and they started with her. They started 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:18.560 with her, and then they very quickly moved on to 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.360 Sarah Good and Sarah Osborne. And by doing that, by 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.760 accusing those two women are actually uh with Titchuba as well, 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.320 all three of them. Is it. I've always heard Tichuba, 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.800 but I've heard I think I've heard Tituba before too, 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.720 So I don't know that sounds Tchuba sounds more right, Okay. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:42.879 So so by accusing those three women, they were following 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:48.720 um Abigail and Elizabeth were following like a well established 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:53.919 tradition of focusing on older women on the margins of 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:59.840 society as witches. Right, Titchuba was easy to accuse me 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.359 because she was a foreigner. She was brought to um 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.520 the colony as a slave, and she worked as a 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:10.040 slave in the Paris's house. Um, so who knows what 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.160 she was into before you know, she came over to Massachusetts, 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.840 I guess was the thinking of the Puritans. But then 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.040 also Sarah Good and Sarah Osborne. They were like older 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.880 women who were poor, um, lived on the fringes of society, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.639 and like that is who you accused of being a witch. Typically. 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.359 So at first, this which panic kind of followed the 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:33.760 standard which accusations that had been um, you know, spread 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.840 around New England before. But but what made it different 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:38.960 is that it just started to pick up steam more 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.320 and more because more and more girls and people around 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.040 them the colony or around the village I'm sorry, started 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.600 to suffer bewitchment and started accusing one another of of 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:56.280 bewitching them. Yeah, if you were a person, for sure, 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.960 a woman, but um, a man or a woman who 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.760 like you said, was about middle aged, and you know 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:04.720 you were over there kind of doing your own thing 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.760 a little bit and maybe just kept to yourself. Maybe 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.000 you didn't like hanging out in the village as much 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.080 as the rest of the villagers did. Uh, you marched 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.080 to the beat of your own drum. You had a 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:20.080 target on your back basically right. Yeah. And also apparently 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.480 one of the things that they were well known for, 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.040 these people who were accused of which is would be 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.919 like like they needed things from their neighbors, so they 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.719 would extract them by threatening to curse them, so they 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.520 would actually use like witchy threats. Um. They were probably 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.840 also into folk magic, so there was like, it wasn't 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.240 just completely baseless other than the fact that like which 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:46.240 is in that kind of puritanical conception don't exist. But 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:48.960 it wasn't just totally out of the blue like these 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.440 they they still like if you a modern person saw 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.480 the person that they were originally that they traditionally accused 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:56.920 of being, which is you'd be like, oh my gosh, 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.280 a real life which there's one right there, it would 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.200 fit the bill. Are you You know what I'm saying, Yeah, 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.000 for sure. So you know, these accusations start flying around, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:10.760 they start mounting, the jails start filling up. The conditions 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:13.840 in the jail were not good. It got so crazy 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:15.560 early on. And this is sort of the first part, 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:19.199 This before the like trials and hangings and everything. This 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.080 is when you were just like jailed and shackled and 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.359 then charged for your shackles I guess like a rental fee. Uh. 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.720 But they arrested a four year old named Dorothy good 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:35.639 Um and she was eventually released. But a four year old, like, 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.520 it's crazy me as a father having gone through life 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:41.520 with a four year old that you could accuse a 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.159 four year old of being anything other than a four 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:46.560 year old, right exactly, But she wasn't. She was held 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:48.560 for months. I think she was arrested in March and 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.560 released in May, and like this wasn't like a pleasant December. 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.399 Just oh my goodness. Okay, so she was there for 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:58.720 almost a year, just under a year. For the intense 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.200 and purposes of exagger rating just how bad this was, 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.400 she was in there for basically a year, Okay, Yeah, 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.760 Sarah Ozgar died in jail. She died in jail. Yeah, 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.480 this is the thing. Like these jails were like dirt floors. 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:12.560 You were chained, like you're saying, like it was just 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.399 it was a place where like a life could just 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.280 be lost way too easily. So to keep a four 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.640 year old in there for almost years just horrible. There 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.960 was a woman who gave birth in jail and they 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:28.000 just left her infant daughter in there with her, so 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:32.080 the infants didn't survive. She died in jail. Um just 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:34.320 from being born in jail. Somebody who was accused of 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:38.200 being witches And this was before the trials had even started. Chuck, 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:41.360 Like this was just the initial phase of the panic, 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:45.399 which was accusation, accusation, accusation, and then suddenly the jails 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:49.200 were overflowing with more than a hundred people, um who 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:53.480 were accused of being witches, and the court was totally 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:57.280 backed up. When increased, Mather and the new governor that 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:01.440 he was coming back with, William Phipps, Uh he'd gotten appointed, 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:05.359 Um showed back up in in Salem and we're like, 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:09.440 what is going on here? And they had a choice, Chuck. 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:11.920 They could have been like, have you all lost your mind? 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:14.320 What are you doing? Stop this right now, let all 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:16.920 these people out. They didn't go that route. They went 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.639 the exact opposite route. They at that moment when they 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:25.480 decided which way to go, they chose incorrectly. Basically yeah. Um. 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:28.240