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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott Sash, I'm Evan, Nobie Williams, and I'm

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Speaker 1: Michael Barr. And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports

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Speaker 1: podcast where we explore the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports and today this is bizarre, but it

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Speaker 1: is very serious. There's a lawsuit out in New Jersey

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Speaker 1: where a third base high school baseball coach is being

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Speaker 1: sued for telling one of his players to slide. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Credit to Steve Polity, the reporter who not only found

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Speaker 1: the story but but kept on and it was in

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Speaker 1: the courtroom as as the proceedings were going on. He

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Speaker 1: was the only one in the gallery. And it was interesting.

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Speaker 1: Did you happen to notice Evan, like the judge and

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Speaker 1: one of the lawyers was involved in the Jason Williams

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Speaker 1: man slaughter that all the big Jersey cases. Um, the

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Speaker 1: personalities were the same. But you summed it up, Bar.

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Speaker 1: Imagine you volunteer or whatever you're you know, you're a

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Speaker 1: j V coach, You getting paid whatever pittance you are

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Speaker 1: to do this, even if you're paid, even if you're

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Speaker 1: paid it, you know it's not a lot and no

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Speaker 1: kids coming around second base and you just give him

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Speaker 1: the old down sign because the throws coming from right

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Speaker 1: field and he got hurt, I mean really bad ankle injury.

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Speaker 1: At one point, the surgeons were talking about possible amputation. Um.

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Speaker 1: The kid was never the same depression, couldn't obviously could

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Speaker 1: not play sports anymore. But his father sued the coach.

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Speaker 1: And should we I guess we have to tell people

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Speaker 1: how it ended up, right, Evan? Or do we let

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Speaker 1: him find it out? But I mean, go read the story.

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Speaker 1: What we're gonna let's we have to tell him? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you have to say the parents of the

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Speaker 1: of the kid who got injured did not win this lawsuit. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it took seven years. It took over

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Speaker 1: seven years to figure out the insurance company for the school,

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Speaker 1: which I think was the plaintiff. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: coach was necessarily the plaintiff, um or the defendants. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: and we should say the coach was never Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: wasn't to losing money, but the insurance company was going

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Speaker 1: to be on the hook potentially for millions. You know,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like they sent spent, you know, thoud dollars

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Speaker 1: in seven years of legal is just to just to

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Speaker 1: defend themselves. Um. And I think the broader point, which

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Speaker 1: I mean it's gott I'm sure you have good perspective

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Speaker 1: on because you have a kid who's playing youth sports

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Speaker 1: right now. Um, this seems to open up a can

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Speaker 1: of worms that you know, what, what are coaches responsible for?

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Speaker 1: What defines gross like negligence? I think the three of

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Speaker 1: us can probably agree that this this doesn't define gross.

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Speaker 1: Something tells me the three of us in what dear

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Speaker 1: would have been dismissed because like again, the hurdle, the

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Speaker 1: burden of proof was as you just mentioned, gross, gross negligence,

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Speaker 1: and they were trying to say, from his deposition, when

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Speaker 1: is it dangerous to slide? And that's inside of two feet?

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Speaker 1: This was JV. Did you really think that the right

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Speaker 1: fielder on a JV team was going to throw the

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Speaker 1: ball all the way to third base from the from

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Speaker 1: the fence? You know, why did you tell him the slide?

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Speaker 1: And that's what this guy was facing. But I don't

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Speaker 1: think any of us would have gone to that jury

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Speaker 1: room and said, all right, how does this meet the

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Speaker 1: burden of gross negligence? You told the kid this lot sure,

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Speaker 1: and and that said the kids get hurt all the time, right,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there are probably instances that maybe are

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Speaker 1: a little grayer than than this one might have been.

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Speaker 1: He told his kids, listen, if there's a play at

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Speaker 1: home plate, I want you to just steamroll the catcher. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that would be negligence. I would be like, well this,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I you know, again, my son plays hockey,

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Speaker 1: if I had a coach out there telling his teammates,

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Speaker 1: you know, if his back is to you and he's

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Speaker 1: two feet from the wall, I want you to reckom

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Speaker 1: and drill his head into the wall. That would be gross.

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Speaker 1: And also, this is a you know this, I believe

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Speaker 1: it was a public school, you know, so the insurance

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Speaker 1: company was the one kind of handling the defense on this.

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Speaker 1: It does make you wonder if this was a private club,

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Speaker 1: you know, an elite team something like that, which didn't

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Speaker 1: have kind of a big insurance company behind it, how

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Speaker 1: different this would be for the coach and the parents. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I worry about now how youth sports and you kind

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Speaker 1: of touched off into it, guys, how youth sports now

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Speaker 1: will be handed in the future, Because listen, if you

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Speaker 1: play baseball, you're gonna get hit with the ball. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you're you're you're going. But if the coach told the

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Speaker 1: picture to throw somebody and you lost an eye, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's something totally different. But you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: when I played baseball as a kid, I mean we

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Speaker 1: just play in the yard and I got a wild

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Speaker 1: one smacked in the chest all the time. And again

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Speaker 1: as a parent, yes, I understand you're upset and you

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Speaker 1: don't use your kids super by the again, super serious injury.

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Speaker 1: The kid could have lost his leg. Yeah, it's not

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Speaker 1: just a broken ankle. And I mean that he could

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Speaker 1: never play again. He was depressed it. We're not minimizing

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Speaker 1: the effects of the injury, just causation. Let's turn now

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Speaker 1: from high school ball to the big leagues where the

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Speaker 1: Houston Astros are under scrutiny after reports of allegedly stealing

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Speaker 1: signs during the twenties seventeen season. Now, the guys that season,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. These allegations say the team used

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Speaker 1: electronic means to steal signs. I let me see if

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Speaker 1: you joined me in this. And I can not believe

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Speaker 1: this didn't come out so much sooner, like as soon

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Speaker 1: as somebody has traded away from the team. This is

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Speaker 1: a former player saying this is what went on? Yeah, certainly,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like in the reaction across Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: from this story that baseball players have been highly skeptical

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Speaker 1: of the Astros for a while now, and I think

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Speaker 1: they're skeptical of probably every team, and they have good

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Speaker 1: right to be um. But it does seem like this

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Speaker 1: was kind of an open secret that the Astros were

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Speaker 1: probably doing a little bit more than than than most

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Speaker 1: other teams in terms of trying to steal signs. And

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Speaker 1: it includes from this athletic story that the camera in

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Speaker 1: the outfield which was then being relayed to batters in

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Speaker 1: real time by people hitting the side of a trash

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Speaker 1: can to make a loud noise that the batters could hear.

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Speaker 1: There have been pictures I can't remember the man's name

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Speaker 1: who accused the Astros of setting up cameras in opposing

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Speaker 1: dug out dugout in bullpen um so they could try

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Speaker 1: to pick up some things there as well. It does

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Speaker 1: seem like there has been a lot of skepticis is

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Speaker 1: this three wax and it's coming high and tight? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a great video and I encourage people

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Speaker 1: to find it on Twitter of somebody breaking down an

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Speaker 1: app bat that Evan Gaddis of the Astro has had

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Speaker 1: against Danny Farquhar, who's a picture for the for the

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Speaker 1: White Sox, and and the person kind of goes through

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Speaker 1: and you know, you see the catcher's hand. If it's

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Speaker 1: a fastball, no sound. If it's a changeup, which I

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Speaker 1: think is Danny Farquhar's maybe his only off speed pitch,

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Speaker 1: you know they get two wax of the drum. You

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Speaker 1: can hear it. I think anyone in the stadium could

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Speaker 1: have heard it. Um. And then on the third so fastball,

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Speaker 1: no drum, change up drum, change up drum, fastball, no drum.

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Speaker 1: And then on the third one the drum comes early

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Speaker 1: enough that Farquhar catches it in his head and he

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Speaker 1: steps off the mound and he calls the catcher. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they're saying something's happening with so I made it.

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Speaker 1: Tell me that guy at Municipal Stadium in Cleveland all

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Speaker 1: these years, he's really been cheating, the guy banging the

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Speaker 1: drum in center field. That's what that's about. That's going on.

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Speaker 1: I think there's like a in my opinion, there's a

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Speaker 1: wider question here. Um and baseball has all these unwritten

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Speaker 1: rules that in my opinion, should be written down or

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Speaker 1: should be ignored. Um, every team is stealing signs in

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Speaker 1: some capacity. It's a part of the game. It's not

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Speaker 1: stealing signs is not disallowed in Major League Baseball by laws.

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Speaker 1: It's not written down in any way. This is something

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Speaker 1: that is not encouraged, but happens, and everybody knows what happens.

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Speaker 1: The question here is whether the fact that the Astros

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Speaker 1: were using technology, in this case a camera in the

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Speaker 1: outfield to steal these signs, whether that is a step

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Speaker 1: too far. And in my opinion, this is an infinitely

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Speaker 1: solvable problem. Right if Major League Baseball wants to make

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Speaker 1: sure that if these are private, if the signs are private,

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Speaker 1: they can figure out a way to make these things private. Right.

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Speaker 1: It can be a little microphone in the catcher's helmet

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Speaker 1: that goes into the picture's ear not unlike the way

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Speaker 1: players get called in football. Baseball can make this private,

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Speaker 1: or in my opinion, Baseball needs to come out and

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Speaker 1: say listen, it's free range. Teams can whoever they want.

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Speaker 1: It's it's incumbent on the catcher and the picture to

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Speaker 1: get these signs to each other. In a way that

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Speaker 1: someone standing in the outfield with binoculars can't find. Now,

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Speaker 1: let me play Devil's advocate. Let's say, for instance, I

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Speaker 1: am the second baseman, and I am exactly the second

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Speaker 1: baseman's physique. Just I will thank you. Man. I'm more

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Speaker 1: like second, but just for the second basement. And and

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Speaker 1: now a runner is on second base, all right, so

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Speaker 1: now he can see the sign and can he somehow

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Speaker 1: tip off the batter on what's coming. That happens, that's

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Speaker 1: why they go through after you change the size. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the big question here, and and the Red Sox got

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Speaker 1: accused of this. I think there was an iPad in

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Speaker 1: the dugout a couple of years ago, and Manfred I

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Speaker 1: believe at the time said using technology for this is

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Speaker 1: a bridge too far. And if that is indeed true,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a very difficult line to enforce. But

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Speaker 1: that needs to be written down somewhere right um. In

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Speaker 1: my opinion, they should just take the signals out of

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Speaker 1: the game entirely. There should just be a way to

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Speaker 1: make these so that no one can see them. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think it changes the viewership at all. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't change the gameplay much at all, and it gets

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Speaker 1: around what seems to be deep seated skepticism in Major

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Speaker 1: League Baseball that teams are quote unquote seating. How about

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Speaker 1: how about some fun here. You want baseball to be

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Speaker 1: good with the kids. How about one inning out of

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Speaker 1: every game you have to tell the better what you're

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Speaker 1: gonna throw for one full leading fastball, let's see you

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Speaker 1: hit it. I I had an idea that I was

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Speaker 1: laughed out of the whole place I would like to see.

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Speaker 1: I always said that the winner of the All Star Game,

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Speaker 1: the American League or the National League, when you get

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Speaker 1: down to in the rest of the season, you get

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Speaker 1: to play three. You get three extra outs. What I

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Speaker 1: mean by that is you play one extra out per

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Speaker 1: game three, and you can save him any time you want.

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Speaker 1: What's the next topic? And finally, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: great idea. Keep thinking that, you sweet low witker. You. Finally,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about an unexpected departure in the NBA this week.

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Speaker 1: David Levy, CEO of the Brooklyn Nets and Barclays Center,

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Speaker 1: leaving his post. He's only there two months on the job. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this was a surprise when I got a phone call

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Speaker 1: yesterday and somebody told me, you know, I'm hearing that.

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Speaker 1: And then I talked to Levy and and uh he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm leaving. I was. I was very surprised, as was

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Speaker 1: the entire NBA in sports business world. Leaving, of course,

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Speaker 1: a titan in the sports business industry. Thirty three years running,

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Speaker 1: Turner Sports Um took over operations for Brett your Mark

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Speaker 1: at Brooklyn, the Nets, the arena, more importantly for him,

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Speaker 1: the family office of Joe Tie and he was going

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Speaker 1: to lead the investments in tech and media. Neither Joe

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Speaker 1: nor David would go into detail as to what happened,

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Speaker 1: but you have to wonder what kind of culture clash

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Speaker 1: there was between a guy like Levy, who understands entertainment,

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Speaker 1: who comes from that TV world of how do we

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Speaker 1: make things interesting and fun? And maybe the basketball side

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Speaker 1: of things that the Brooklyn Nets Sean Mars leads that operation.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Sean comes from the San Antonio Spurs, where

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Speaker 1: it's all business, you know, the Popovits world of no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna be using our players for promos and

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Speaker 1: for fun. And you just wonder what the culture was like,

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Speaker 1: and obviously it was not a good fit. Two former

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Speaker 1: One other thing to toss in there, kind of into

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Speaker 1: the mix, as you say, we don't we don't fully

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Speaker 1: know the details here. I would say the most eventful

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Speaker 1: thing to happen to the Nets during David Levi's short

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Speaker 1: two month tenure was the the NBA's China situation right

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Speaker 1: in which Joe Tie was very outspoken about, you know,

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Speaker 1: defending China and and and against what what Daryl Morey

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Speaker 1: had said. David was in all those meetings and David

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Speaker 1: he was there. Do you think that there's a chance

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Speaker 1: that that the see how the China to say it

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Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do with that, Okay, So I'll

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Speaker 1: take him at his word on that one. He just said.

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Speaker 1: What what David did say is the job isn't what

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Speaker 1: I thought it was. And he would not give more

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Speaker 1: as to what that meant. And Joe Tie emailed me

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Speaker 1: just to say, you know, we're gonna let our statements

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Speaker 1: stand and we're not going to go beyond that, but

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Speaker 1: we wish David could luck So Oliver Weissberg becomes the

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Speaker 1: Interest CEO. Do we do we know much about him?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know he's at Bluepool. He's one of

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Speaker 1: the Bluepool guys, you know, running the family office for

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Speaker 1: for Joe tie Um. It's obviously they got to find

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Speaker 1: somebody else to run the team. And you wonder that, now,

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Speaker 1: are they two separate gigs? Do you give the same

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Speaker 1: person the job of the family office the investments as

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Speaker 1: well as the team, because, as you guys well know,

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Speaker 1: just running the business side of a pro sports franchise

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Speaker 1: and an arena, particularly one of the global aspirations of

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Speaker 1: this one, that might be enough. And David, as you said,

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Speaker 1: you know, thirty three year veteran at Turner New Sports

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Speaker 1: Broadcast Air Sports Media obviously trumiously Well do you think

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Speaker 1: in the end the person that takes this job next

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Speaker 1: to is the sports media executive or is someone from

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Speaker 1: another part of the sports business world. I think you're

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Speaker 1: going to get a team person next. Who that person

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Speaker 1: is don't know, but I'd be surprised if it was

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Speaker 1: a media person again, or two separate jobs. I still

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Speaker 1: say my three outs for the rest of the season,

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Speaker 1: man would be good man, let's how about just the

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Speaker 1: one out? Like we're out of this show. This is

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business Podcast at Michael bar along with Scott

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Speaker 1: Sasni and Evan Novogh Williams. We're here every Monday, Wednesday

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Speaker 1: and Thursday exploring the world of money and sports, and

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Speaker 1: we don't know when. By the way, you had a

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Speaker 1: nice chat with Oh my goodness, Roger. Yeah, yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna find a way bringing the bars. Chat with rob

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Speaker 1: your pens, get to the audience to it, guys making news.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, I was excited about that and that was

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Speaker 1: Thank you man. You didn't that you got Well, we'll

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Speaker 1: get to that at some point. I'm sure you can

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Speaker 1: join us again. At the end of the week. We're

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Speaker 1: speaking with Heidi O'Neil. She's one of the highest ranking

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Speaker 1: women at Nike. She runs kind of all their retail strategy.

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Speaker 1: Lots to talk about with her and Nike. I don't

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Speaker 1: have the app. She's not gonna like me. She's not

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Speaker 1: gonna like you anyway, at least at least I've given

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Speaker 1: a good reason this time. You're listening to Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: or Sports. I like you on Bloomberg Radio around the

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Speaker 1: world and online wherever you get your podcast.