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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Welcome everyone to the It

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Speaker 1: Could Happening a podcast. My name is Saint Andrew and

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Speaker 1: I'll be a host as we talk about politics stuff

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Speaker 1: with me. Today is Garrison Hello, and Christopher Hello, and

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Speaker 1: Sufi Hi. And today we will be tackling or rather,

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Speaker 1: we'll be taking a trip to the anarchist activism in

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Speaker 1: Latin America with a specifies more. But first we need

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Speaker 1: to get into some context here. The first organization to

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Speaker 1: promote the concept of a SPECIFISEMO was the Federation Anarchista

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Speaker 1: Uruguaya or the FAU, which is founded in nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: six by anarchist Milton's who embraced the idea of an

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Speaker 1: organization there was specifically anarchist, but those who don't know.

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Speaker 1: Not long after rather two decades after six UM, the

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Speaker 1: US install a dictatorship in Uruguay, the last from nineteen

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Speaker 1: the f A you survived that dictatorship and went on

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Speaker 1: to establish connections with other South American anarchist revolutionaries. So

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Speaker 1: they helped to support the founding of the Federa Shao

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Speaker 1: Anarchista Gaocha or f a G. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I'm pronounced that correctly, the Federal ANARCHISTAKABOA and the Fedshaw

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Speaker 1: and Arkista the Rio de Janero or f the r

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Speaker 1: G in their respective regions for so and they also

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Speaker 1: helped to found the Argentinean organization nas Alka, which means

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Speaker 1: rebel while when you coming onto stage in Latin America

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Speaker 1: in the last few decades, the ideas that really make

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Speaker 1: up A specifies more Sasha, a historic threat that's really

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Speaker 1: run through the anarchist movement internationally since the beginning. UM.

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Speaker 1: It may as we get into like what is and stuff,

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Speaker 1: it may sound very similar to platform is UM. Are

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Speaker 1: you all familiar with that current? Yeah, I'm from familiar

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Speaker 1: with platforms a little bit, but we can probably I

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Speaker 1: don't know, explain it for the people at at at

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Speaker 1: home who are not as who do not spend as

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Speaker 1: much time thinking about old, old, old anarchist terms, right

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Speaker 1: right right, so they're generic listener or viewer or whatever. UM.

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Speaker 1: Platform is UM began with a document that was written

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Speaker 1: in nine by the former Peasant Army leader Nestor macne

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Speaker 1: either Met and other militants of the Yellow Truder or

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Speaker 1: Workers Cause group. They published a document called Organizational Platform

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Speaker 1: of the Libertarian Communists, and it was written in response

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Speaker 1: to well being exiled from the Russian Revolution UM and

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Speaker 1: having to struggle really to find their foot in after

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Speaker 1: the Bolsheviks turned the work of Soviets into instruments of

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Speaker 1: one party rule. UM, so the Power Space group, the

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Speaker 1: Yello Truder, they really criticized the anarchist movement for a

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Speaker 1: lack of organization. So they proposed an alternative that is

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Speaker 1: controversial to some anarchists, but it's just actually a general

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Speaker 1: union of anarchists based on anarchist communism that would strive

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Speaker 1: for theoretical and tactical unity and I focus on class

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Speaker 1: struggle and labor unions. Obviously, platform is UM, like all

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Speaker 1: political ideas, it's not a static you know, the world

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Speaker 1: has progressed. Sickness significantly in a century. So um, while

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Speaker 1: there is an emphasis and workers struggle and class struggle. UM,

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Speaker 1: when you speak to most platforms today, I would say, Um,

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Speaker 1: obviously I don't have stats on that. I would say

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Speaker 1: most platforms can recognize that, you know, the no war

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Speaker 1: with the class war is a bit reductive. Um. I've

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Speaker 1: also noticed, actually that platformism has been getting a bit

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Speaker 1: more popularity lately. I don't know if it's just me

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Speaker 1: and my perception, but I don't know if you'all seen

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Speaker 1: that I have. I've not seen tons of it here.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the type of anarchist of my it around,

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Speaker 1: or at least see is is not is not in

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Speaker 1: this vein. But most most of the stuff I see

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Speaker 1: is like around um, like the kind of like live

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Speaker 1: anarchy type kind of strings um and more individualists. Right.

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Speaker 1: But that's just I think a very like Pacific Northwest

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Speaker 1: specific thing that the anarchists here just kind of generally

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Speaker 1: trend in that direction. So I'm not sure what it's

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Speaker 1: literally like across like this country in other places around

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Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I've

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Speaker 1: definitely seen it especially I think I think it's it's

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Speaker 1: I don't know almost. I think it's bigger a few

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Speaker 1: years ago, but back like there is a big spike

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Speaker 1: of black Rose, um serious group for a while, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: people who like called themselves like anarcho communists or anarcho

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Speaker 1: syndicalists kind of generally swam in this general ocean. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I definitely saw that as a bigger thing in than now,

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Speaker 1: at least like locally from my area. And I think

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Speaker 1: I will say, yeah, the blacks people, a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: like very very specifically were specifi based on a lot

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Speaker 1: of it was based on like people who had like

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Speaker 1: experiences with a specific various ways, right right, Yeah, Because

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Speaker 1: I was actually just about to say, I think that

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Speaker 1: black Rose is more a specificity than Platform is. But

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Speaker 1: of course there is you know, a lot of overlap

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Speaker 1: between these two currents, right. Um. As for my experience

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Speaker 1: with like platform and some and stuff, have seen um

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Speaker 1: discussions of it happening more. I mean that's all I

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Speaker 1: can really see that I've seen. Um I have you

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Speaker 1: ever read once? But at least if discussions are happening,

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Speaker 1: the likelihood of things coming out of it might be

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Speaker 1: a bit. In Greece, I guess another current that m

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Speaker 1: has been part of the anarchist milieu, psycheist wave whatever

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Speaker 1: is organizational dualism, which came out to the nineteen twenties

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Speaker 1: Italian anarchist movement. So they used the tomb to describe

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Speaker 1: involvements of anarchists both as members of anarchists specific political

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Speaker 1: organizations and also as militants in the labor movement. In Spain,

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Speaker 1: the Friends of Druti group emerged to oppose the Gradual

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Speaker 1: Reviews of the Spanish Revolution, and they also ended up

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Speaker 1: emulating some of the ideas of the Platform by criticizing

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Speaker 1: you know, cnt F phase, c ant f AIS, gradual

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Speaker 1: reformism and collaboration with republican government. Um, So the sparks

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Speaker 1: of war and stuff. You know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: forces that play and we're gonna get into it now,

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Speaker 1: but it is, I would say, as a side note,

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Speaker 1: important to recognize that there is no model it when

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Speaker 1: it comes to like these sort of civil wars and

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Speaker 1: historical events. Um, you really have to look at things

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Speaker 1: in context, and you know, it's not trying to strip

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Speaker 1: them away from the goings on at the time. Also,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese anarchist movement of the nineteen tens um advocated

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Speaker 1: for similar ideas. I'm going to try to pronounce the

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Speaker 1: name of the group, hopefully don't get castled. But it's

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Speaker 1: them who Shuang Fu Kongshan Jui Tong. She's a way,

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Speaker 1: I think, which is the Society of Anarchists Communist Comrades.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, they advocated for a lot of similar ideas.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of different currents around the world,

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Speaker 1: influenced by you know, the historic conditions. But the general

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Speaker 1: thread that you know, anarchists need to get together and

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Speaker 1: work as a unit is you know what's thrust in

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Speaker 1: it right and specifies more is just a fresh continuation

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Speaker 1: of this threat of this trend. So what is what

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Speaker 1: is the specificies more exactly, the three key concepts um

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Speaker 1: that I see emphasized again and again. One the need

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Speaker 1: for specifically anarchist organization built around a unity of ideas

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Speaker 1: and practice. Two, the use of the specifically anarchist organization

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Speaker 1: to theorize and develop strategic political and organizing work. And

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Speaker 1: three active involvement in and building of autonomous and popular

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Speaker 1: social movements, which is described as the process of social insertion.

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Speaker 1: So kind of core to the whole specificity current is

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Speaker 1: which is rather anti tectical some of the trends that

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Speaker 1: I've seen in the past couple of years. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of a rejection of this left unity idea, right, this

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Speaker 1: idea that there can be these this sort of big

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Speaker 1: tent organization that can somehow establish all these different visions simultaneously. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: I specificity reject the idea of just unity for unity's

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Speaker 1: sake because they feel it boils down to sort of

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Speaker 1: Louis common denominate to kind of wishy washy politics. They

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Speaker 1: feel that when unity is preferred at all costs, it

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Speaker 1: leaves very little room for unified action or develop political discussion.

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Speaker 1: In fact, in my experience, when you have like a

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Speaker 1: lot of political heterogene um, there tends to be a

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Speaker 1: lot of unproduct to drama lack of better word. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: people of different political stripes should work together, um, and

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Speaker 1: there's no like harm in that. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to certain types of organizations, having a

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Speaker 1: sense of ideological unity is I would say pretty important,

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Speaker 1: as you know, you don't want to have all these

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Speaker 1: different groups constantly butting heads for all these different visions.

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Speaker 1: You know, you want to have at least some sense

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Speaker 1: that we're moving in sync. Right, So you're not going

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Speaker 1: to have some people who are trying to establish social

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Speaker 1: democracy and some people who are trying to get like

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Speaker 1: this workers State code and code, or you know, people

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Speaker 1: who just want I don't know, like a higher minimum reach. Right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's on a different stage of their political journey.

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Speaker 1: But what a specificity trys emphasize is that while we

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Speaker 1: can work within these larger social movements, um, it's important

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Speaker 1: that anartists specifically come together to try to shape those

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Speaker 1: movements in an organized way. And I'll explain because it

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Speaker 1: kind of sounds a bit like vanguardism for some people,

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Speaker 1: this idea that you know, these this cabal of like

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Speaker 1: revolutionaries are trying to manipulate things behind the scenes. But um, really,

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Speaker 1: what a Specificitts argue is that anarchists needed space, the

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Speaker 1: near space for like common strategy and reflection and collective

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Speaker 1: responsibility and you know, a place to discuss plans and

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Speaker 1: build trust and share analysis and you know, put together

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Speaker 1: short and long term goals all that jazz. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: while the specificitys do reach out too and work with

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Speaker 1: social movements regardless of whether they fit this code and code,

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Speaker 1: anarchist purity test um, and I see that with my

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Speaker 1: tongue planted filmily and cheek. Of course, Um, they want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that they can sue still as an

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Speaker 1: active minority, so that these movements aren't diluted. And so

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Speaker 1: I noticed IM like throwing out a lot of different

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Speaker 1: woods and freezers and ideas, um, you know, things like

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Speaker 1: ideological unity and the need for sort of a consensus

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Speaker 1: within the group. Um. And speaking of I've spoken about

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Speaker 1: consensus on my channel before, so I have a breakdown

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Speaker 1: on it people to check out if they like. Um,

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Speaker 1: I was spoke of unified strategy, right, so you're not

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Speaker 1: just joking around. You actually have mapped out sort of strategy,

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Speaker 1: like for example, black socialists in America. They aren't like

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Speaker 1: a specifically a specificity or to my knowledge, but you

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Speaker 1: can see um that they have unified like clearly leader

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Speaker 1: of strategy, and they're making moves to make it to

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Speaker 1: achieve it, and they're very public about those moves, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: I also want to emphasize, of course, and the specifies

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Speaker 1: more the whole idea of this active minority. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not just a bunch of like it sounds like

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Speaker 1: a passive book club, right, and a specificity group is

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Speaker 1: a group of people who are passionate about you know

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Speaker 1: this cause, um, And obviously passionate people have this habit

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Speaker 1: of for they can more than they can chew. Right.

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Speaker 1: So what I would advise like a specificity and a

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Speaker 1: specificity judgment, adjacent groups, and really just organizations in general,

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Speaker 1: is that keep your size in mind, keep achievable goals

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Speaker 1: within sight, because if you don't, you know, it's very

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Speaker 1: easy to burn out very quickly. Yeah. Um. With the

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Speaker 1: specificity groups, it's important that they understand their responsibility, but

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Speaker 1: also that they understand their limits. Lastly, and very importantly,

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Speaker 1: social institution I think is one of the most important

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Speaker 1: parts for specifiesmo. And I think even if you don't

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Speaker 1: take anything away from like a specificity specifies more, you

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Speaker 1: at the very least like implement social institution or at

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Speaker 1: least concepts within social institution into organizing, right Because obviously

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Speaker 1: um and I guess a kind of fewer number. But

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Speaker 1: what social institution tries to point out, I guess, or

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Speaker 1: tries to develop within a movement, it's just awareness that

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Speaker 1: the people who are making these moves from organizing and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: that they don't relinquish their power to like other figures

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Speaker 1: or forces or parties or whatever the case may be. Right, um,

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Speaker 1: social institutions times in the belief that the oppressed of

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Speaker 1: the most revolutionary sector of society and the seed of

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Speaker 1: future revolutionary transformation of society lies already in these classes

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Speaker 1: and social groupings. So it doesn't mean socialization doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: like acting within single issue advocacy campaigns or you know,

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Speaker 1: like trying to take over people's existing struggles. It means

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Speaker 1: getting involved in daily fights and daily struggles for people

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Speaker 1: to better their own conditions. It means, you know, connecting

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Speaker 1: with workers, connecting with immigrants, connecting across neighborhoods, um working

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Speaker 1: towards racial liberation, working within students struggles and tenant struggles.

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Speaker 1: As people are like part of these uncles, they become

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Speaker 1: conscious of their place in society. Right, And part of

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Speaker 1: our rule is to try to develop their consciousness. So

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Speaker 1: as people are tempered and tested and recreated, they see

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Speaker 1: their position in the what's what we're looking for in

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Speaker 1: the pecking order? Right, They see that there are forces

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Speaker 1: that play that are keeping them down, their structures play

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Speaker 1: that are keeping them down, and they change from just

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Speaker 1: being like social classes to being active social forces. So

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Speaker 1: they're brought together by organic methods and by self organized cohesion.

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Speaker 1: What you notice of the popular movements, like, for example,

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter, is that, unlike what some conservatives might assume,

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Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter organization wasn't the one like pulling

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Speaker 1: the strings, you know, like the official group wasn't there,

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Speaker 1: you know, telling people okay, march here, burned that right here,

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Speaker 1: move that. You know. It's like the people themselves came

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Speaker 1: together and you know, really expressed the desire for change.

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Speaker 1: And so really, as they become self conscious actors, aware

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Speaker 1: of their power, of their voice, of their nemesis, which

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Speaker 1: is the ruling elites that control their social order, a

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Speaker 1: specificitys try to keep that thrust right. What a specificity

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Speaker 1: argue is that essentially there's an anarchist on the current

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Speaker 1: two popular social movements that should be preserved and maintained

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Speaker 1: and cultivated. Right with popular movements, um, they're very quickly

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Speaker 1: co opted by in positions of leadership or by you know,

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Speaker 1: academically eats, or by political parties. But specificity aren't there

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Speaker 1: to try to make groups identify as anarchists, right, They're

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Speaker 1: there to just maintain that thrust to be self organized

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Speaker 1: and to fight for their own interests, because ultimately that's

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Speaker 1: our natural impulse as humans, you know, it's really the

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Speaker 1: propaganda that tells us, you know, um, like you have

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Speaker 1: to go through these proper channels. You know, you have

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Speaker 1: to vote with your dollar or you know, food for

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Speaker 1: these politicians or whatever the case may be. Converse and

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Speaker 1: all these different things call up your representatives. The natural

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Speaker 1: thrust of a person is not to like relinquished control

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Speaker 1: of themselves, you know, is to try to maintain that

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Speaker 1: um and so a specifics trying to push against the

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Speaker 1: propaganda that keeps us from maintaining that, push against the

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Speaker 1: co optation that ships that from us. So, yeah, do

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Speaker 1: any sort of automatic critiques of a specifies move come

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Speaker 1: to mind? We all, I'm not sure about like critiques

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Speaker 1: per se. We need to think about it more. But

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Speaker 1: a few things that come to mind around so, like

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Speaker 1: you talked a bit about like the difference between like

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Speaker 1: left unity and creating like an anarchist unity, um, and

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Speaker 1: for people at home, I would like to maybe extrapolate

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Speaker 1: why those are different things. I know you have a

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Speaker 1: good video on left unity already, but like in terms

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Speaker 1: of trying to like, you know, if if one of

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Speaker 1: the goals being creating like an anarchist organization that kind

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Speaker 1: of unifies different anarchists, how that is a different type

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Speaker 1: of unity than just left unity in general. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think that might be a point of clarification. And then

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Speaker 1: the other thing I was wondering about is like, how

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Speaker 1: does this intersect in terms of like individual goals versus

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Speaker 1: like group goals or like organizational goals and so like,

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Speaker 1: because like there's a there's a back and forth between

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Speaker 1: like personal autonomy and then you know these type of

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Speaker 1: social movements that kind of almost gained their own thrust

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Speaker 1: right right, Yes, to the point about the difference between

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Speaker 1: left unity and anarchist unity, um well, obviously artists, oh

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Speaker 1: soon fairly heterogeneous. Um. I think our general thrust for

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Speaker 1: self determination and autonomy and that kind of thing is

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Speaker 1: it brings us together. You know. The difference between like

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Speaker 1: say anarchist unity where they defferently some I would say

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Speaker 1: key disagreements within the milieu and left unity is that

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Speaker 1: I feel there are some extremely incompatible factors that prevent

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Speaker 1: left unity from being viable. Yeah, when there's a thrust

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Speaker 1: among significant segments. I mean really every non libertarian segment

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Speaker 1: of you know, they couldn't get left two fun known

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Speaker 1: our popular energy towards state institutions, whether it be through

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Speaker 1: insurrectionary social democracy or reformist social democracy in a case

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Speaker 1: of amounts and stock damage respectively. Um, I think that

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Speaker 1: that really keeps us from really working together on anything

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Speaker 1: more than small goals and small projects. I mean, we've

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Speaker 1: really seen the whole left unity idea of fall apart,

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Speaker 1: you know, through wars and through even just like what

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Speaker 1: should be discussions between people, you know, like the First

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Speaker 1: International literally split because of the differences between you know,

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Speaker 1: the so called left currents, you know, between the anarchists

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Speaker 1: and the other socialists. So lat unity is not something

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Speaker 1: that I even to achieve. I think most people know

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Speaker 1: that about me by now, um. But regard to like

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Speaker 1: anarchist unity, and of course the differences between artists, I

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Speaker 1: think the general rusted to maintain the autonomy and self

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Speaker 1: termination of the people and of the social movements via

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Speaker 1: inserting ourselves in is what really clues us together. And

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Speaker 1: of course that alone, I don't know if that's enough

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Speaker 1: to maintaining a specificity organization, because you know, like I

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Speaker 1: noted a specificitys try to um develop deeper level you know,

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Speaker 1: strategies and theoretical discussion and that kind of thing. And

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Speaker 1: so with those sort of discussions, you know, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: see a lot more of the distinctions bearing out. But

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Speaker 1: at the very least, um, I think anarchists generally could

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Speaker 1: benefit from a degree of at least unity in the

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Speaker 1: sense of maintaining as aularity in the sense of maintaining

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Speaker 1: the libertarian thrust of popular movements. Actually, other thing that

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Speaker 1: you had noted about the sort of friction between individual

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Speaker 1: goals and organizational goals, between autonomy and sort of how

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Speaker 1: social movements end up taking on like an energy of

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Speaker 1: their own. Um. To be quite honest, I don't think

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Speaker 1: I have like a fully developed answer for that. Yeah, um, Because,

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, a social movement that forgets that

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Speaker 1: it is about, you know, deliberation of individuals is you know,

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Speaker 1: in my view of social movement that's quickly going to

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Speaker 1: and obtaining against the people who are you know, fueling it.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, I've interacted with like a lot

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Speaker 1: of people what pretty selfish or pretty egotistical or just

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Speaker 1: argumentative for the sake of it sorry, So if you're

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Speaker 1: gonna say something, yeah, I was just like the thing

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Speaker 1: that keeps popping up into my head is, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that gets misconstrued all the time

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Speaker 1: is who's calling the shots. And I kind of feel

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Speaker 1: like what you're saying is everybody in a way, right, Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that like, which is good sometimes but not

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Speaker 1: good other times obviously exactly, Yeah, because I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's very easy to fall into this sort of um

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Speaker 1: almost reactionary I like island mentality not island mentality is

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Speaker 1: in Caribean is mentality is in personessn't as an island

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Speaker 1: around like autonomy and you know personal freedom, you know,

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Speaker 1: like this rendering idea that you know on step map property,

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Speaker 1: you know that kind of thing just let people do whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like more so alchocalyst conception of what

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Speaker 1: like freedom and autonomy is I think an important part

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Speaker 1: of autonomy and you know freedom and yeah, like this

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Speaker 1: project is you know, accountability and is you know, like

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Speaker 1: consequences like social consequences and how your actions affect others.

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Speaker 1: You know, like what ant say he was to recognize

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Speaker 1: is that we are not in fact island you know,

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Speaker 1: our actions or behavioral words affect other people. And so

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a constant projects of

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Speaker 1: balance um individual personalities and goals. But I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's tricky, right, Like you know, we're you're talking

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Speaker 1: about like some kind of you know, group organization to

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Speaker 1: work together to kind of you know, think of achievable

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Speaker 1: goals and create steps to get there um. And I

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Speaker 1: feel among a lot of people who proudly declare themselves

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Speaker 1: anarchists and at least like and they're extremely vocal. Like

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Speaker 1: these are like people both like online and in person

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Speaker 1: organizing that are very are very like vocal and try

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Speaker 1: to very much like make their place known. We've seen

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Speaker 1: trends away from this direction in terms of like rejecting

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Speaker 1: the idea of goals and demands and just you know,

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Speaker 1: like this this more insurrectionary kind of tendency of just

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Speaker 1: making total destroy for the sake of it and if

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Speaker 1: a simple committee, yeah, and and and and that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like I know that like platform is m is kind

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Speaker 1: of like it's not like Antiens instructionary, but it's like

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Speaker 1: it's it definitely critiques that type of instructionary trend. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I'm thinking about like, you know, this idea and like,

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Speaker 1: how with with with this kind of general you know, decentralized,

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Speaker 1: no no demands, no goals kind of general kind of

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Speaker 1: direction that like capital a anarchists are are doing. How

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Speaker 1: like what's what's maybe some parts of specifics that we

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Speaker 1: can actually take into account to be like, hey, maybe

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Speaker 1: there's you know, like I I don't like I don't

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Speaker 1: like being called like any adjective anarchist. I think it's silly.

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Speaker 1: I like I like the um I think earlier this

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Speaker 1: year or yeah, they last year, Like I just got

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Speaker 1: to the point for I'm anarchist, you know that's yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like the part in Desert. It's like, I'm an

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Speaker 1: anarchist of many adjectives. I'm not, I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: always an insurrectionary, I'm not always a syndicalist. I'm not

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Speaker 1: always you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah um.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like that's would be really useful kind

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Speaker 1: of thing for people to focus on more in terms of, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it can be fun to make total destroying that it's

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Speaker 1: a very base instinct, but it also would be great

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Speaker 1: to like improve people's lives a little bit um and yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's like to to to kind of like dueling things,

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00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: um and in terms, that's why I do really like

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Speaker 1: the part of like this type of stuff that it's

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Speaker 1: really appealing to me just because I kind of already

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Speaker 1: work on this myself, so I'm like, oh, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: already doing this. But it's like the it is it

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Speaker 1: is like the social the social insertion side of things,

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Speaker 1: I think is something that would be a much a

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Speaker 1: much better way of thinking about. Like everyone hates talking

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Speaker 1: about optics because yeah, it's frustrating, but I think the

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Speaker 1: social insertion method is a better framework for kind of

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Speaker 1: dealing with some of those same problems, um and yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then like you know, there is even among insurrectionaries

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Speaker 1: and all those you know, all those types, there still

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Speaker 1: is like a decent amount of like group projects and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and that is I think a really good thing to

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Speaker 1: focus on because but yeah, there's not many anarchists and

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Speaker 1: it would be cool if there was more. And if

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Speaker 1: we just focus on the parts that make people go,

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Speaker 1: oh that's kind of silly and pointless, then we're not

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Speaker 1: really going to grow anarchism that much. Um. So highlighting

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Speaker 1: the parts they're like, oh, yeah, you're actually helping people.

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Speaker 1: That's gonna convince a lot more people who are kind

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Speaker 1: of already trending in that general general direction, and then hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe in a few years they can also be doing

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Speaker 1: silly destruction for fun because it is it is fun sometimes. Um, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like this, as you mentioned, optics reminded it is kind

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Speaker 1: of pet peeve I have with some you know, instant

428
00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: people where they try to treat like ideologies or specifically

429
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: anarchism as like a pr project that we have to

430
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: like constantly be trying to shift the optics and micromanaged

431
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: like every aspect. Like No, I think the best remedy

432
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: for like, because you're not going to match the power

433
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: of mass media, what you can do to push back

434
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: against the sort of propaganda is help people, and help

435
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: people and identify as anarchists as you're helping people, right, Like,

436
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: that's the easiest and quickest way to dispel people's notions

437
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: and like conceptions of what an anarchist is. If we

438
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: were to take like socialization right and sort of, I

439
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: would say, there's still it's a bit and individualize it

440
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: a bit. Um. I would say that as a practice

441
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: you know, just even if you don't know any any

442
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: other anarchists in your area, right, just being there, being

443
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: in these movements helping people and you know, saying you know,

444
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: this is what I believe. Um, just talking to people

445
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: about what you believe as a police and as you're

446
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: helping them. You know, that goes a long way, much

447
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: longer than any you know, poster um campaign or like

448
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: wheat pasting initiative or artwork, um you know wall arts

449
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, like actively helping people. Of course

450
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: wall lot has its place and double atle bit myself,

451
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: but you know there's um, it's not it's ultimately like

452
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: talking to people and helping people and being their people

453
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: and being honest about your intentions that I think, you know,

454
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: we should working towards. And I think those types of

455
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: projects are something that the specific model like excels that

456
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: in terms of like creating like a unlitay anarchists who

457
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: get like who have like a goal in mind and

458
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: then go out to achieve the goal. Helping people like

459
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: doing like doing like like like direct directly helping people

460
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: is something that that type of organization model is kind

461
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: of the best at UM because you can yeah, really

462
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: like organize things much better with a small group like that,

463
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: and create goals that are actually very achievable, whether it

464
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: be you know, building a community kitchen or building you know,

465
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: heating centers for like for the winter, like under under

466
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: bridges or whatever. You know, all those types of starting

467
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: comming to the gardens, all those kinds of things are

468
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: I think what this type of model really excels at.

469
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: And yeah, you don't need to change your ideology to

470
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: this one word because that's that's silly. But you can

471
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: pick up different parts of it be like, yeah, that

472
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: actually seems like a useful way of the world you want,

473
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: you know, politicians just ruling hand co opt our project,

474
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, like just basic things like that, you know.

475
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: And then from there, you know, as you are talking

476
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: with people and meeting people who are passionate about issues

477
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 1: in these social movements, you know, no need to say

478
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: keep you from developing this sort of um partumilarly online

479
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: um in group kind of mentality. It also opens up

480
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: opportunities you to develop your and this is on the

481
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: topic of like the individualist social institution. It prints or

482
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: presents opportunities for you to develop your own I had

483
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: no like book club, and then from that book club

484
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: could come and a specificity organization. You know, as you

485
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: begin to develop your politics and your shared politics, more

486
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: can come out of it. So don't underestimate, you know

487
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: the potential of just putting in the work and talking

488
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: to people. Yeah, you know, just being there on the ground.

489
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: One of the best things you can do to help

490
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: stay alive in the well things are heading in the

491
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: direction that they're heading societally, is like making friends and

492
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: forming a friend group and then yeah, like a doing

493
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 1: stuff together that makes dealing with everything else that's happening

494
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: so so much better. And hey, remember our old friends

495
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: less remark started with a book club, so hey, you know,

496
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: you never know where book clubs can lead exactly exactly.

497
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: It's actually really interesting. Um video clip of Marie book

498
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: Gin talking about book clubs and like the power and

499
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: potential of book clubs. Um. I don't know if we

500
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: could probably link that in the show notes, but it's

501
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: like a really interesting make sure drink. So ultimately, a

502
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: specificity believe that social movements we reached their own logic

503
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: of creating revolution, not when they all just decide to

504
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: identify as anarchists and weave the black flag. But when

505
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: the majority reach a consensus and a consciousness of their

506
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: power and the ability to exercise their power and their

507
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: daily lives. So even if they do not adopt anarchism,

508
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: they still consciously adopt the ideas embedded within it. They

509
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: are multiple political currents will exist within any movement, and

510
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: so it's important that we as anarchists and I guess

511
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: specifically as a specificity, are there to actively combat the

512
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: opportunism that come from you know, these forces from this

513
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: whether electoral or find goddess within these social movements as well,

514
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: we can also help to push them further through um,

515
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, pushing for more direct democracy and consensus, through federalism,

516
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: and confederating with other social movements through you know, building

517
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: up the mutual aid within these movements. Like if you are,

518
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: for example, part of a mutual aid group in one neighborhood,

519
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: you can push them to start reaching out with mutually

520
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: groups and other neighborhoods and creating a network of mutual

521
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: aid groups that can build into something bigger, you know,

522
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: combining resources and manpower to really push the revolution. You know. Lastly,

523
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: we'll say that for those who are trying to like

524
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: get into the whole specifies more thing. Um, I mean,

525
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: you could start a new organization from scratch. But again,

526
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: like the easiest thing to do is suggest getting there

527
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: to people and be honest with the people. And I

528
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 1: keep saying the people, even though I have my critiques

529
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: of this amorphous conception of the people, but the point

530
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: remains that our goal is to spread our ideas, not

531
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: to get people on any particular ideology, but to get

532
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: a liberatory consciousness underground and to generalize that consciousness. And

533
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: for those who are curious about the specifies more in

534
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: action and social institutions, specifically the Federal Show. Anarchista GAUSA

535
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: in Brazil has worked with neighborhood committees and urban villages

536
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: and slums. They've built alliances with the rank and file

537
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: members of the rural land as workers movement the must

538
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: and they've also worked with trash and recyclables collectors UM Brazil.

539
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: For those who don't know, as a lot of high

540
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: levels of temporary uh and contingent employment, unde employment and unemployment.

541
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: So the working class isn't how will you traditionally conceive

542
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: it as like just surviving primarily off of wage labor,

543
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: but it's more so this is sort of subsistence work

544
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: informal economy, gig economy can deal. So being able to

545
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: connect with these when char collectors, for example, who are

546
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,959
Speaker 1: part of this sort of economy, the EFIG has built

547
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: a strong relationship with them and help them to form

548
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: their own national organization to you know, push for their

549
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: interests and to collective eyes their recycling operations. Specifies More

550
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: is also um worked with the has also worked in

551
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 1: the efforts of the Zabalaza Anarchist Communist Front in South Africa,

552
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: as they also are strong opponents of social institution and

553
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, really being embedded in these social movements in Argentina,

554
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: in Brazil, in South Africa, and in the US in

555
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: the case of Black Rose Anarchist Federation, specifies More has

556
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: been building as a key point reference. And so I'll

557
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: leave us off with a code from the use of

558
00:39:53,239 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: Front Collective an anarchist group online. If libertarian socialists the

559
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: organized with libertarian socialists, then they will lose contact with

560
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: the broader population they need to be reaching. If libertarian

561
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: socialists merely joined social movements without advocating various libertarian socialist

562
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: practices that can be used, then social movements can easily

563
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: drift into being susceptible to reformist and strategic liberal and

564
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: Lendinis tendencies and opportunists. If libertarian socialists merely joined social

565
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: movements and try to spread ideas and practices in mere

566
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: individual ways, they will be far less successful than a

567
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: well thought out, coordinated effort. And if theoretically specific libertarian

568
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: socialist groups try to control social movements and popular organizations

569
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: from the top down, then such specific groups sacrifice their

570
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: own principles and would reproduce hierarchical organizing. In contrast to

571
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: authoritarian fine goddess conceptions, specifies more groups and a specificity

572
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: put their activity towards a self organization of movements and organizations. Ultimately,

573
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: as I honestly love this court from Shanty Alston, power

574
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: to the people, where it stays with the people. Peace. Yes, Andrew,

575
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: please please plug your plugables because they are good and

576
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: people should in fact listen to them, right, thank you. Safety. First,

577
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: of course, I will say that you could follow me

578
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: on Twitter at underscore st Drew and on YouTube at

579
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: St Andrew's um and you can find me here apparently

580
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: twice a month, which is pretty great shout out. It

581
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: could happen here. Take care everyone, peace again he's again.

582
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: What's new? My shit? Yeah, new year, same ship. I'm

583
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: Robert Evans. This is behind the we retired. We retired

584
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: this bit? Who where is this time for a new bit?

585
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: This is it could happen here the podcast about how

586
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: things sometimes feel like they're falling apart sometimes and maybe

587
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: we can do things about that. You know what's falling

588
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: apart is me because I, during my break woke up

589
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: at like one thirty every day and now it's someone

590
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: speakable hour in the morning. I hate this the time

591
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: you packed the time. So for for for one of

592
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: our first episodes of the new year, we have decided

593
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: to subject ourselves to your para social whims um and

594
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: we are going to be doing maybe one, maybe two

595
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: Q and A episodes um uh, giving as to your cues.

596
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: And I've been in the queue. It's okay. I've been

597
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: told that our producer Sophie has a list of questions

598
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: already prepared so that I can stop talking and she can.

599
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: Now you've been told you're the one who posted the thread.

600
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: Sophie said that she would read them. I did volunteers tribute,

601
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: but I might I might I might take that back,

602
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: it's so how much attack. Uh, let's let's let's start

603
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: with let's start with a a simply a good one. Uh.

604
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: What has been your favorite episode slash topic to research

605
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: in this past season so since we started season two?

606
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: Oh god, Um, I enjoyed the metaverse Facebook episodes because

607
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: there's a part of me that really likes shipping on

608
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: bad tech industry stuff. Um. It fills a deep part

609
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: of me just just really comprehensively thinking about how how

610
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: terrible the vision of the future these people have it.

611
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: So that was probably my favorite. I liked the Climate

612
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: Leviathan stuff. Um, the Climate Leviathan, Climate Behemoth, Climate Now,

613
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 1: Climate X kind of four quadrants. I I liked learning

614
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: about that, like, jeez, almost a year ago actually by

615
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: the time I started researching for the show. Um, And

616
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: I'm decently happy with the way that those topics were

617
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: presented and how they keep popping back every once in

618
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: a while. I think in terms of just the favorite

619
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: episode I recorded, it was probably the interview with the

620
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: Common Humanity Collective people, just because like listening to a

621
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: bunch of people who have very sophisticated and well developed

622
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: mutual aid project and then listening to you know, them

623
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: talking about their political development and how they've been sort

624
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: of solving their problems was really reassuring and cheerful in

625
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. And then research wise, it was

626
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: definitely the Spooky A fifty one episode where I was like, oh,

627
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a fun episode about uh, the government

628
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: and aliens and it was like, oh no, here's every

629
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: war crime ever and like sixteen people almost killing everyone

630
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: on earth. This is This is probably probably the most

631
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: fun I had was with the Chaos, Magic and Esotericism

632
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: episode How Silly It Is? Um? Yeah, that one. That

633
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: one also was just just a pleasure to record. I

634
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: also loved having Corey doctor owen um totally because that

635
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: was cool. That was cool. That was that was very cool.

636
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: How cool of us. I've enjoyed our our fiction episodes

637
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: with Margaret and with Rebecca those those have been great.

638
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: And I've loved having sat Andrew. Yeah, that has been

639
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: also very cool, fantastic. What were you gonna say, Robert, nothing?

640
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: Oh great, this person says. I think I've got my

641
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: head wrapped around mutual aid, community resilience and all the

642
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: stuff you talk about. Any tips on how to effectively

643
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: communicate it to people who might not be at least

644
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: initially open to it. H Um. I mean it kind

645
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: of depends on why they're not open to it, right.

646
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: So it's it's a matter of are they just somebody

647
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: who has a lot of faith in in systems as

648
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: they exist, or they someone who's kind of coming at

649
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: it from more of a traditional like liberal um status

650
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: perspective where they think the option is to get in

651
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: line with you know, the Democratic Party and support that

652
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: and that will make things better. Um. Like basically, are

653
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: they a top down er um, or there's somebody who

654
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: rejects it because it's like communism um, and they don't

655
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: they don't think that people have any kind of fundamental

656
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: responsibility to themselves. Um. Because you are going to have

657
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 1: kind of a different approach to trying to reach either

658
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: of those people, um if they're coming at it from

659
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: kind of more of a right wing standpoint, but they're not,

660
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, uh talking about shooting vaccine doctors. Um, they're

661
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: just kind of conservative. I think the way to do

662
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: it is to sort of hearken back to some of

663
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: these very traditional ideas of like, um, American homesteaders and

664
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: and independent you know, communities on the frontier and self

665
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: reliance and how mutual aid is people taking responsibility UM

666
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 1: for their communities rather than you know, this idea I

667
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: think a lot of conservatives have of like people um

668
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: just kind of lazily taking charity. How it's it's different

669
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: from charity, and that it's a community UM seeing its

670
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 1: own needs and becoming independent as much as is possible

671
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: on the state from the state UM by trying to

672
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: meet its own needs, and how that UM is better

673
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:53,479
Speaker 1: for people than just sort of um boging like being

674
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: dependent upon government programs. I think that's kind of the

675
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: way in which to reach out to those people with

676
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: that idea if they're coming at it from more of

677
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 1: a liberal top down approach, UM, I think you can

678
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: get more into the weeds and may argue about kind

679
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: of inefficiencies within the system, problems within the system. I

680
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 1: think one thing to really point out that will probably

681
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: still be fresh to a lot of people of that

682
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 1: persuasion is how frightening the first couple of weeks of

683
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: quarantine were and all of the supply line issues and

684
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: kind of the early breakdown to be like, look, um,

685
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: that didn't go away, like right, you can see that

686
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: that we're still dealing with a lot of this and

687
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: we're still having supply line disruptions and the state really

688
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: has not kind of even under Biden sailed and to

689
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: clear the gap. And so we need these community resiliency

690
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: programs UM. And you can you know, depending on the

691
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: kind of person there, you can also sort of point out, um,

692
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: the degree to which there is our attempts at kind

693
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: of sabotage of any sort of of of of top

694
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: down government programs by the right and how UM that's

695
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: part of why you need community resilient and see programs

696
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: because you can't guarantee who's going to be in the

697
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: White House, you can't guarantee what's going to continue to

698
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: get funded. Um. And outside of kind of any of

699
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: the the structural issues um that make that stuff difficult.

700
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: So I think, UM, that's kind of broadly speaking, the

701
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: two different ways you you can broach those conversations with people,

702
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: depending on the tendencies they're they're looking at it from, uh,

703
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 1: let's let's let's get into an unpleasant one. What's the

704
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: gang's outlook on this year's election and how do you

705
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: think it might position us for do we see more

706
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: violence letting up to the next presidential election. I know

707
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 1: we'll be doing a prediction z Is episode later. Um.

708
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: But as for this election, I have I've not looked

709
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: at anything about it. I think the Steelers are going

710
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: to take it all. What what will what's border? Are

711
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 1: the Steelers? Um one of them? That's great? Uh uh?

712
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean I feel like if Democrats

713
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: want to keep the power that they currently have, they

714
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: will probably need to do some type of symbolic action

715
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: that makes people think they actually do things. They've managed

716
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: to have control of every and done absolutely nothing that

717
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: they So I'm guessing if they want to keep that,

718
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: they should probably do something really soon um or else.

719
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: I don't see people being super eager to vote in

720
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: two for the Democrats. Yeah. Yeah, I mean one of

721
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: the issues they've got is this this thing that you know,

722
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: kind of the Technocrats always have where you know, as

723
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: we as Corey pointed out when we had them on

724
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 1: there have been some really positive moves by the Biden

725
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: administration in terms of like appointments and how different kind

726
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: of agencies are being handled. Um, But when it comes

727
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: to the things that he actually campaigned on, like it

728
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: just hasn't It hasn't happened, should it ain't been done? Um,

729
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: Like the closest we've gotten recently is yet another kick

730
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: the can down the street a little bit for student

731
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: loan repayments, And I agree, I think they need to do.

732
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: There's like two big things they could do that might

733
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: have a significant shifting effect. One of them would be

734
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: student debt forgiveness, and one of them would be fucking

735
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: de schedule marijuana. Even without Congress, Biden could could not

736
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: factively make marijuana not and like that would be number

737
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: one politically, the easiest fucking win in the world because

738
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: the vast majority of Republicans don't give a shit about

739
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: that anymore. Um, it will piss off cops, which is

740
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: probably why you won't do it. But like, those two

741
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 1: things could have an impact on mid terms. That's certainly

742
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: a thing that would like you can campaign on more,

743
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't know that I think he'll

744
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: do that. And of obviously I guess another big old

745
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: payment to stay home, but I think that shipped un sailed.

746
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: Like I honestly like, I don't think they want to win,

747
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: so they can sit there and then and go, oh yeah,

748
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: we can't do anything because Republicans control the House, and

749
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: you guys need to like, you guys need to like

750
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: save us in four this is the most important election

751
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: of our lifetime. It's like, and they will keep doing

752
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: this over and over and over again until literally the

753
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: seize boil and everyone, you know, everyone is being heard

754
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: into concentration camps, like they will just keep doing this

755
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: and and like I think that's that's the thing that's

756
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: actually important about the two cycle is that like the

757
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: Democrats have you know what you know what what the

758
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: rejection of Bernie Sanders sort of is is the Democrats

759
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: essentially going, we are not a popular party, right, like

760
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: we we are not a party that is going to

761
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: like like we will not even give the pretense of

762
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: like having a base that we represent and we do

763
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: things for like we're just we're just in it for ourselves.

764
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: We're in it's just like, you know, give all of

765
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: our weird like black Rock friends positions in the government,

766
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: and we don't, you know, and it's you know, it's

767
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: it's we we don't have a policy agenda, and we

768
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: don't care if we lose, because if we lose, all

769
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: you people just have to go put us back into

770
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,439
Speaker 1: office because the alternative is just more death camps. Yeah,

771
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a broad belief within kind

772
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,240
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party that things are still business as usual,

773
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: and that the Republican Party is still a political party,

774
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: and so kind of the handing off and switching of

775
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: power is fine. That's seen as business as usual, rather

776
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: than the Democrats are the Republicans are continually ratcheting away

777
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 1: from there being any chance of a switch of power,

778
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: um at least through legal means. Like that's the whole

779
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: thing they're doing. And the failures to pass any kind

780
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: of voting rights and the failures to see like a

781
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: voting right reform as an existential issue for not just

782
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: the party, but like the concept of of uh democracy

783
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:42,240
Speaker 1: in this country is is I think evidence that however,

784
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: you kind of try to rationalize in your head why

785
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: it's happening. There's a real disconnect between the party leadership

786
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 1: and understandings of the new nature of reality. Yeah, well

787
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: that's the other thing. I mean, they'll be fine, right

788
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: like outside of like another January six killing them all,

789
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: Like they'll be fine. It doesn't like for them, it

790
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: basically doesn't matter if Republicans take power. Maybe maybe some

791
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: of them will get impeached, they'll be like a show

792
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: trial for like two people or something, but like they're

793
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: gonna be fine, and you know, that's that's the thing

794
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: that motivates all of their thinking, is that they can

795
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: survive another public administration. Like we're you know, we're dying

796
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: under both of them, and you know, like I mean,

797
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: this is this is partially you know, if we want

798
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: to talk about sort of the COVID response for a

799
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: second and the relation that has to the election, it's like, yeah,

800
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: the Democrats are just like completely given up even the

801
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: pretense of doing literally anything about COVID literally because literally anything, yeah,

802
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: go out and die, like so we can talk about that.

803
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: That's a separate Yeah, yeah, that's a separate issue, I think,

804
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: just in terms of like how how to interpret what

805
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: they're doing with COVID and the degree to which I

806
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: think they even have a chance of uh whatever. Um.

807
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, I was like, like, they don't care if

808
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: we live or die, Like we care if we live

809
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: or die, and we're gonna have to do stuff on

810
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: our own outside of this because they're just gonna kill us.

811
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: All yep. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's hard

812
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: for me to tell where the elections are going to

813
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: go precisely. Uh Biden's polling certainly isn't great. It's also

814
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: not like wildly out of step with how where presidents

815
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: often are kind of at this point UM in in

816
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: their cycle. So and also it's pretty normal for the

817
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: party that just won the presidential election to lose at

818
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: the midterms. That's more normal than not UM, I think. So,

819
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: I think the big questions are number one, like the

820
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: degree to which it's a wide sweep, which is going

821
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: to depend on the actual impact a lot of these

822
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: UM efforts to kind of restrict voting and jerrymander, Like

823
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: what the actual on the ground impact is UM, and

824
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 1: the degree to which we've seen an actual shift, because

825
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 1: one of the things that the polls don't often tell

826
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: us is like, yeah, Democrats are not popular. Most people

827
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: seem to be aware that a lot of promises have

828
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,040
Speaker 1: gone unfulfilled, But it doesn't also mean that they like

829
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: the Republicans UM, who as the party of Trump, are

830
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: still kind of widely disliked by people. So it's kind

831
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: of unclear to me what precisely is going to go

832
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: down by which I mean whether or not it's going

833
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: to be a pretty normal midterm, whether Republicans pick up

834
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: some seats or like a nightmare blowout. Um. And I

835
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: do think that has a lot to do with whether

836
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: or not Biden and like does a couple of the

837
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: things that a president can do unilaterally that would be

838
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: really easy for other people to campaign on. Um. Like

839
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 1: he they have to, like if they actually do want

840
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: to win, they have to they have to make a

841
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: couple of big hail mary's they have to do again,

842
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: Biden has to do a couple of the big things

843
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: that a president can do and then say, okay, see

844
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: I did a thing, put more Democrats in, and we

845
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: can do this other big thing that a president can't

846
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: do on its own or something like that. Like I

847
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: I just don't see, Um. I mean, you know, anything

848
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: could happen. Still, it's fucking January. I think there's a

849
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: positive if you want to be in terms of things

850
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: that are making me kind of optimistic, um And and

851
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: in terms of things that are better about when the

852
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: Democrats are in powder and then the Republicans. You can

853
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: bully the Biden administration to taking broadly positive action, which

854
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: is what happened with student loan repayments. Right, that's why

855
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: that did get kicked down the can a couple of

856
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: kick down the road a couple of months. Um. And

857
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: so I do think there's potential in um harassing the

858
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: Biden administration to taking actions that can make Democrats more popular. Um.

859
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: That would not be the reason to do it. The

860
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: reason to do it is so that people don't starve

861
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,919
Speaker 1: trying to pay back student loans. Um. But it does

862
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: point to, I think in an avenue of hope. UM,

863
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,479
Speaker 1: if we're trying not to be complete dooomers in January two. Yeah,

864
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: and speaking of avenues of hope, it's time for an advert. Ah.

865
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: The only thing that gives me hope is the products

866
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: and services that support this podcast. And we are back back,

867
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: we are, we are, i've i've I have a question.

868
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: I would like us to talk about. UM new year

869
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: book list? Oh yeah, that's so, what's what's some I

870
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: think we could answer this like and then they also

871
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: someone else followed up with saying a recommend some books

872
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: that maybe not just left left this theory of climate change.

873
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: Also some like fiction stuff as well. And I'm just

874
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: gonna say the books that i'm reading or is on

875
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: my reading list. Not. I'm not gonna recommend books I've

876
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: already read. I'm just gonna say the ones i'm currently reading. UM.

877
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: I'm still making it through hyper objects for an upcoming episode. UM.

878
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: I picked up a really a book I wanted to

879
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: get for a long time called Islands of Abandonment, which

880
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:52,479
Speaker 1: is about um people, Well, no, it's it's it's about

881
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: places that have kind of been forgotten and regrown or

882
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: taken have been kind of reclaimed by the area that

883
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: they were, that they were built on. And then I

884
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: also have a random few books on alchemy that I'm

885
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: going through as well. That's most of my books. Horrible. UM.

886
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: I read. The last book I finished in was in

887
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: the Garden of Beasts, which is by what is his name?

888
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,479
Speaker 1: I think it's Eric larson Um. He's a guy who's

889
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: written He wrote like Devil in the White City and

890
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: a couple of other books that people have probably read

891
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: Eric larson Um, And it's about the first US ambassador

892
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: to Nazi Germany or what becomes Nazi Journey. He gets

893
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: sent there right before, like like months before Hitler takes power,

894
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: and the book largely traces he and his family's journey

895
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: in Nazi Germany from like kind of didn't really care

896
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: about German politics and were often broadly sympathetic towards the Nazis.

897
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: They melt met like his daughter kind of is very

898
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: much like on board with Nazi revolution for like the

899
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: first half year that she's there. She's also like simultaneously

900
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: dating the head of the Gestapo and the Soviet um

901
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: like assistant ambassador, which is fascinating. Like, it's a very

902
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: interesting book, um, And the story, like the journey this

903
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: kind of family goes on realizing like what the Nazis

904
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: are in the perspective of that. It's it's very well written. Um,

905
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: it's very detailed. I really enjoyed it. The thing that

906
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: I liked the most was the detail it goes into

907
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: about the kind of the fates of because it's it's

908
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: a more you know, obviously as much of a nerd

909
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: on the history of fascism as I am, I've read

910
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: a lot about the Night of Long Knives. This did

911
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: the best job of kind of going into detail about

912
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: the kind of dudes who the dudes who were purged

913
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: in the Night of Long Knives. So these guys who

914
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: were Nazis, and that they wore swastikas and they were

915
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: part of the party and whatnot, but also weren't Nazis

916
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: enough to not get purged and in a lot of

917
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: cases were like starting to fall out of love with

918
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: the party when the Night Long Knives had And so

919
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: it's these it's really interesting, UM and I recommend it

920
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: to people. And the last book I started in the

921
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: first book I finished in two was called Ministry of

922
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, who is UM an

923
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: interesting science fiction author, in part because Ministry of the

924
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: Future is about climate change. UM. It is a a

925
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: science fiction look at about like a thousand different potential

926
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: solutions to climate change. And Kim Stanley Robinson is actually

927
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,959
Speaker 1: like an expert UM. He works for the Sierra Center.

928
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 1: I think it's called UM. He's won a bunch of

929
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: awards for his work on like trying to like posit

930
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: different solutions to climate change. He's he he understand he's

931
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: not like coming at this from the perspective of an

932
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: even even a well researched author. He's he's writing from

933
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: the perspective of someone who is an actual scientific expert

934
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: in what happens and how the different solutions might work.

935
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: And the thing that's really interesting about Ministry of the

936
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: Future is it's this fascinating melange of UM. Like a

937
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: number of the character the Ministry of the Future is

938
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 1: this kind of hypothetical new u N agency that's put

939
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: in place after a horrible wet bulb heat event kills

940
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: twenty million people in India UM, and they're they're kind

941
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: of trying to push for very technocratic solutions to climate change. So,

942
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: like one of the big things the book focuses on

943
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: a lot is this idea of a climate coin, which

944
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: is a kind of UM international backed by banks cryptocurrency

945
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: that that pays as a kind of long term bond

946
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: for sequestering carbon, so that like countries like Saudi Arabia

947
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: that have huge oil reserves actually make more money by

948
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: refusing to pump out oil and thus get paid in

949
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 1: these coins. So it's really technocratic solutions like that. And

950
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: then also terrorist groups that may be funded by this

951
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: UN agency building fleets of drones to murder people on

952
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: commercial air flights UM in mass in order to cripple

953
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: the entire air travel industry and stop carbon emission and

954
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: carrying out mass assassinations on like CEOs of of oil

955
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: companies living in their private island. So it's this really

956
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: interesting mix of like kind of liberal politicians and like

957
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: bankers like working out these very wonky solutions to things,

958
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: and like terrorists who have lost people in climate emergencies

959
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: mass murdering um billionaires uh and and so it's it's

960
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: a very it's the widest possible ranging look at kind

961
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: of different solutions to climate change and how they might work.

962
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: And it's a very optimistic book. Um. And there's there's

963
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: elements of it that I kind of the optimism I

964
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: kind of disagree with. I think oddly enough Kim doesn't

965
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: give enough weight to the dangers of authoritarian populism and

966
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: and the threat I think they present to any of

967
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: these kind of potential solutions. But it's still a very

968
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: well thought out look at climate change and I think

969
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: really worth reading um if you want something that will

970
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: both bring up different because he also goes into a

971
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 1: lot of like very scientific solutions like pumping up water

972
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: from underneath glaciers in order to stop glaciers from sliding,

973
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 1: and like slow the rate of melt and all these

974
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 1: these other kind of like very much like, technical, here's

975
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,120
Speaker 1: a thing that we can do that will reduce the

976
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: effect of this specific um kind of climate change. It's

977
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: really a very good book. Um and it's apparently was

978
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 1: Barack Obama's favorite book of the year, which, considering the

979
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: degree which it talks about murdering politicians and business leaders,

980
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: is interesting to me. I think he was maybe more

981
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: paying attention to the carbon coins stuff than the shooting

982
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: oil industry executives in their face while they're sleeping. Well,

983
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: he was also a fan of parasite, so he may

984
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: just have been told this is a book you should

985
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 1: say you like, but it is. It is a very

986
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: good book. It is really worth reading. Um and it's

987
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: it's it is a work of science fiction. But honestly

988
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: it's like it's also it's well again, Kim really understands

989
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 1: his from a technical level, so I think it's pretty

990
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: unimpeachable from that point of view. There are some kind

991
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: of sociological areas where I don't think the book. I

992
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: think there's some ship missing, particularly as regards the problems

993
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: authoritarianism is going to cause in reaching for these solutions.

994
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: But I think it's still really really valuable. And Chris,

995
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 1: we're going to hear your responses. But first capitalism, Chris

996
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: reading reading a few things, Um reading more Chuang, which

997
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: is a theoretical journal about China that writes a lot

998
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: of very very good stuff. They have probably the best

999
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: account I've ever seen of just what was going on

1000
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 1: during the socialist period and then also the sort of

1001
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: transition to capitalism. Those are those are Those are issues

1002
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 1: one and two, And they just published an issue about

1003
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: basically how the pandemic response happens in China. It's it's

1004
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: absolutely fascinating. Um. It's also about sort of is this

1005
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 1: something that yeah, I've I've talked about a lot of

1006
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: their stuff on the show, sort of obliquely or directly,

1007
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: but like, you know, one of one of the big

1008
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: things is about how, in a lot of ways, the

1009
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: pandemic reveals the sort of weakness of the Chinese state

1010
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 1: and in a way that you know it is you

1011
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: don't see really because both both you know, both the

1012
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: Chinese state and the sort of like American media have

1013
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: this vested interest in showing like China's is sort of

1014
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: like all powerful authoritarian police state or whatever, like the

1015
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 1: miliar image of it is like this isn't but you

1016
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: know what, what you really see is that like this,

1017
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: the state has a very strong ability to intervene in

1018
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 1: like one province at a time, and they can you

1019
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: know when when when they focus, when they focus all

1020
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: of the sort of administrative power on like one area, right,

1021
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: they're extremely effective. They can't really do it in you know,

1022
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: multiplayers at the same time. And this means that you're

1023
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: dealing with all these sort of regional government stuff and

1024
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting. The the other thing that I have, well, okay,

1025
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 1: so do do we want to talk like a little

1026
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: bit about dawn of everything or do you want to

1027
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: save that for just like yeah, I I'm down to

1028
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: talk about that at any point. Yeah, Yeah, that's definitely

1029
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: on my list. That is a long one that's less

1030
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: of a read I think where most people are going

1031
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: to be less of a read in one sweep than

1032
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: like maybe for over the course of the year, like gradually. Yeah.

1033
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: It's very very dense and very long, but very readable.

1034
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: Like not to say that it's like dense in the

1035
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: I gotta like slog through this textbook. It's extremely readable.

1036
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 1: It's just like there's a lot in there, and you're

1037
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: gonna want to pause and think about ship. Yeah, so

1038
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: so they don't have everything is this is the last

1039
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 1: book David Graeber ever wrote, and it's David wen Grow

1040
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: also they wrote it together, and it's it's this basically

1041
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 1: an attempt to reassemble I guess, early human history. And

1042
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 1: but the thing that they're doing that that's that's really

1043
01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 1: unique is that so they they're David one Grows as

1044
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,920
Speaker 1: archaeologist David Graeber's and an apologists and they're they're going there,

1045
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: you know. So they spent a whole bunch of time

1046
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: going through the sort of early archaeological records, and what

1047
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 1: they find basically is that none of the things that

1048
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 1: you see make any sense at all unless you're willing

1049
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: to unless you're willing to accept that people you know,

1050
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 1: years ago, and then even you know, people like four

1051
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: hive thousand years ago, we're as smart as we are

1052
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,919
Speaker 1: and have the have the capacity to recreate and redesign

1053
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:38,679
Speaker 1: their own political arrangements selfconsciously, which is something that doesn't

1054
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: sound that weird, except everyone assumes that they can't, and

1055
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: that you know, everyone that's you know, one of the

1056
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 1: other things that they're they're really sort of heavily doing

1057
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: here is trying to break this idea that you know,

1058
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: human society sort of evolves in these this linear progression.

1059
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 1: You know, you start out with like these small hunter

1060
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: gatherer bands and they get more complex quote on quote,

1061
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: eventually the developed farming, and farming developed the state. And

1062
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: the answer is just, you know, when you look through

1063
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: the actual archaeological record, none of this is true. You have,

1064
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 1: you know, they have a lot of very interesting sort

1065
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:14,679
Speaker 1: of historical examples of this, looking at like what looked

1066
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: like incredibly democratic and egalitarian cities, and then you know,

1067
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: on the outskirts of those cities you have the emergence

1068
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: of the states among the things that look like states

1069
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: among barbarian groups. And they have and what I think

1070
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:27,600
Speaker 1: is maybe the most interesting part of it is that

1071
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: they're they're very concerned with the question of human freedom,

1072
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 1: but freedom in a way that like we don't like

1073
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: freedom on a level fundamental enough that like we can

1074
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: barely imagine it. So they have these things called the

1075
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,600
Speaker 1: Three freedoms, which is one of them is so the

1076
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,560
Speaker 1: first one is the freedom just move to leave and

1077
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: to it's it's the freedom to to you know, be

1078
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: in a place and then leave and know that you

1079
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: will be cared for when you get to wherever you're going. Yeah,

1080
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: these kind of networks that were set up so that

1081
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 1: people could travel that have like the descendant of those

1082
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: ideas is sort of the way if you ever if

1083
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: you've ever spent time in the Middle East, not in

1084
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: like hotels and ship like it's that same idea that

1085
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 1: kind of deeper than religious belief about the importance of

1086
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: that has gotten added to like Islam and into a

1087
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: number of other faiths in the area. Like, but this

1088
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 1: idea that like there's nothing more sacred than taking care

1089
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 1: of a of a guest um like and and how

1090
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: that that that existed to enable kind of a sort

1091
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 1: of cross cultural contract and contact and like recreational travel

1092
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: in a way that I think it would be deeply

1093
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 1: surprising to people who just sort of assumed everyone before

1094
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,599
Speaker 1: a certain age died within five miles of their house

1095
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: or was you know, yeah, part of a band of

1096
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 1: wandering hunters. Yeah. And it's interesting in that like, like,

1097
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 1: like we we in a lot of ways travel less

1098
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,560
Speaker 1: than early people did, because you know, people would just

1099
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: leave and people, you know, people just didn't like their

1100
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 1: families and so they'd walk like five miles and they

1101
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 1: they'd come to a place and they'd be accepted. And yeah,

1102
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: and you know, and like the second one that I

1103
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: think is the one that is the one we have

1104
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 1: the least capacity, I think to understand, which is just

1105
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,560
Speaker 1: the ability to disobey orders. Just like anyone tells you

1106
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: do something, you could just tell them know at any time.

1107
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 1: And it's not only can you just tell them no,

1108
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: Like the social expectation is that you is that you

1109
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: don't act, is that it's it's it's it's not just

1110
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: that you have the ability to do it. It's that

1111
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: someone giving you an order is treated as weird. And

1112
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 1: this is a thing that you know, like like this,

1113
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 1: this is the thing. This is a freedom that used

1114
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 1: to exist and no longer does and what sort of

1115
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 1: destroying various ways along with sort of the the third

1116
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 1: freedom to talk about, which is about how people have

1117
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: the right to sort of just shift and recreate their

1118
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: their social political arrangements. And yeah, and people used to

1119
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: do this sort of I mean people, you know, a

1120
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 1: lot of the what their early part of the book

1121
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: is about is about how societies you there's a lot

1122
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: of societies that would you know, flip seasonally, right, so

1123
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: what like one half of the year you have this

1124
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: just like absolutelytatorship. The other half of the year it's like,

1125
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 1: well it's looks hippie commune. And you know, the fact

1126
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,640
Speaker 1: that we do not like the fact that like we

1127
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,719
Speaker 1: we we just don't like it, cannot conceive of completely

1128
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 1: shifting our political arrangements like that is It's also there's

1129
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: this fascinating discussion of like the fact that and this

1130
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: is kind of counter to what I I had always

1131
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 1: kind of thought that like once as a group groups

1132
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: of people when they when they made the decision to

1133
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,639
Speaker 1: like move to agriculture um and like set founded cities,

1134
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: that it was kind of a one way street, you know,

1135
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 1: you you just keep going along that road. And there's

1136
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 1: actually multiple examples of people's like this is what what

1137
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:41,600
Speaker 1: happened to the British Aisles, or at least in what

1138
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: is currently Great Britain. People's like developing agriculture, settling down

1139
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: and then being like oh, you know what, fuck this

1140
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 1: and like going back like that that should should happen

1141
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:53,559
Speaker 1: all the time. And and one of the things that's

1142
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: really kind of optimistic about the vision of of the

1143
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 1: sweep of human history in the dawn of everything is

1144
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 1: the idea that like, no, we don't have to keep

1145
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: like it's not inevitable that we just keep doing more

1146
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 1: of what we're doing now. All throughout history, large groups

1147
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 1: of people have been like, it's time to let's do

1148
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 1: something else, let's make a radical change, like it happens,

1149
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 1: um And it's probably more normal to do that than

1150
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: it is to do what we've been doing. And when

1151
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: you I think one of the things that kind of

1152
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 1: one of the things that leads to the sense of

1153
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 1: inevitability of development along the lines that we have is

1154
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 1: is the fact that we only really have about ten

1155
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 1: thousand years of even vaguely reliable like data um or

1156
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: vaguely comprehensive data on human history. But people have been

1157
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: around for tens of thousands of years longer than that,

1158
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: and for most of it we've been a lot more

1159
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,959
Speaker 1: experimental than we are now. And it's it's always possible

1160
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:49,640
Speaker 1: for people to try different things in a way that

1161
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 1: um maybe seems impossible to us now but but necessarily

1162
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: won't for our kids. Oh yeah, The last thing I

1163
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: would tell people to listen to if they're looking for

1164
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,880
Speaker 1: a fictional optimistic thing is Corey Doctors walk Away. Um,

1165
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 1: give it a read. And if you're if you're looking

1166
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 1: for like a like a beautiful like not to get

1167
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: your head out of the One of the things I'm

1168
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 1: really passionate about is plants. And I have this beautiful

1169
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 1: book called the Planet Pedia and it's really helpful for

1170
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: caring for your house plants. And it's just like aesthetically

1171
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: just so. The photographs are beautiful and it's one of

1172
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 1: my favorite things to give friends and family. To check

1173
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 1: that one out as well. Another another plant book that

1174
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,600
Speaker 1: I just got for somebody that I really like. I

1175
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,839
Speaker 1: think it's called Wicked Plants. It's about all the poises

1176
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 1: plants that you can get, um and the ones all

1177
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 1: the like the poison plants you can cultivate in your

1178
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 1: own garden. And that's been a lovely read. Um, And

1179
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: I do hope to set up a decent poison garden

1180
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: here in the spring. So yeah, me too. It's going

1181
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 1: to be great. Well, let's get to another question. Um,

1182
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,640
Speaker 1: do you guys want like a fluff question or like

1183
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 1: a real question? Uh, let's do a fluff one and

1184
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 1: we can start the next episode with a real juicy

1185
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 1: fluff me daddy. All right, Okay, that's a little gift

1186
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 1: to all of you at home. On the topic of hobbies,

1187
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 1: so so I just Garrison likes poisonous plants. I like

1188
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 1: non poisonous plants. Uh, what hobbies are you into that

1189
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 1: we may not know about? Um? I guess I can

1190
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 1: only say one thing here. Really, well, I don't know. Yeah,

1191
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:38,599
Speaker 1: you should be really careful about how you answer this one.

1192
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 1: I know what your hobbies are. Let's have everyone else

1193
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 1: go first. UM. I just got into three D printing.

1194
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 1: I'm currently trying to figure out how to get a

1195
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 1: BS to act adhere properly. Yeah, that was the problem

1196
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 1: I had with my printer is that it would I

1197
01:15:57,160 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 1: would get like a decent way through the first part

1198
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,000
Speaker 1: of the print, and then part of it would cut

1199
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 1: curl off, so then it wouldn't print the next layer

1200
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: on correctly. Then it must up the print. And yeah,

1201
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 1: I was between mental health stuff and that at the time.

1202
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 1: I was s today on my printer. This is when

1203
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: I just gave up because it was too much. So

1204
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 1: I'll be excited to see how you get past this turtle. Well,

1205
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: I've I've got a glass bed coming in so I'm

1206
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 1: gonna have Yeah, and I've I've got the enclosure. One

1207
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: of the issues I'm having is just that I'm having

1208
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 1: a heating issue with the bed. It won't heat up.

1209
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: It stops before it gets to one tin, which is

1210
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: what it should be able to go up that high.

1211
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:37,719
Speaker 1: But it's just, yeah, can you manually heat it up hotter?

1212
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to matter. It doesn't seem to matter

1213
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:43,639
Speaker 1: if I if I said it, like I can't obviously,

1214
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 1: like you can. You can set it up to heat,

1215
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:47,639
Speaker 1: but it just keeps I keep getting that like loud

1216
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 1: error beep. So there's like there's this is going to

1217
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 1: be it's going to be a process of jiggering to

1218
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 1: to to figure it out. Um, but you can come

1219
01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: pretty fun. Yeah, I have, I have, I've I have

1220
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 1: a similar problem with my setup right now that I've

1221
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: been trying to troubleshoot for the half a year. Um,

1222
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,559
Speaker 1: I can manually control the heat bed and it does

1223
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 1: get that hot. But still I think it may just

1224
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 1: be a leveling issue. I may need to like clean

1225
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 1: the bed. I also should have talked to someone who

1226
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 1: has done more three D printing than me. Um, But yeah, yeah,

1227
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's fun. I I enjoy it. It's

1228
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: very it's radically different from the stuff that I like

1229
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:27,799
Speaker 1: do for a living um, which is always my favorite

1230
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: thing for like a a task to engage in in

1231
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:33,640
Speaker 1: order to be relaxing, because it's it's not at all

1232
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: like reading and writing. No, it's very different. It's very different.

1233
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: So so far, I'm enjoying it. And I already I

1234
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: printed the thing I need to do to make the

1235
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 1: the bio um, the bio lab for like the Four

1236
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: Thieves stuff. If you want to check out our episode

1237
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:53,680
Speaker 1: with Michael from the Four Thieves Vinegar Collective. I've three

1238
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: D printed that part, so I'm ready to get the

1239
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 1: other parts and put that thing together. Um, I'm just

1240
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to print other stuff with

1241
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:04,240
Speaker 1: better plastics and whatnot. But yeah, it's it's fun. So far,

1242
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm I'm enjoying it a lot. Um. Maybe I'll get bored,

1243
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll wind up spending way too much money on

1244
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: different three D printers, like the ones that lift the

1245
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: goo out of the resin printers are there. They's so

1246
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,080
Speaker 1: they're much like this is what this is what Corey

1247
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 1: Doctor was talking about. Like, like they are much better

1248
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 1: at the filament printers in a lot of ways, but

1249
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 1: a lot of like a lot of the stuff. A

1250
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 1: lot of the really useful machines that you can make

1251
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: with three printers require you to use filaments right now, um,

1252
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 1: but the resin ones are like so much more elegant.

1253
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 1: They're beautiful. Um. I also am really interested in the

1254
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,839
Speaker 1: idea of printing would which I did not realize until recently,

1255
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,679
Speaker 1: you could do but it's absolutely possible with certain kinds

1256
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 1: of printers. Um, And that seems pretty dope. So I

1257
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:55,640
Speaker 1: don't know. We'll see how. Maybe I'll be tired of

1258
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: it in a month because my mental health will take

1259
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 1: a dive, But so far I'm pretty excited. Cool Chris,

1260
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,799
Speaker 1: what do I do? Well? Okay, so before the pandemic,

1261
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 1: I was getting into rock climbing, but unfortunately, like like

1262
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: I like rock climbing, I'm not like, oh, it's like

1263
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do for it's a lot

1264
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 1: of fun, but unfortunately, I mean it's not like the

1265
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 1: worst pandemic thing you could possibly do, but like it's

1266
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,719
Speaker 1: no if you get up high enough on the rocks,

1267
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 1: COVID can't get up there. It's like the opposite of

1268
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 1: a bear. It's really bad at climbing. Yes, so I

1269
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 1: guess the other what do I even do? Is okay?

1270
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:43,080
Speaker 1: So my other thing? Okay, so it's so deep, like

1271
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: deep Twitter lure. People will probably know this about me,

1272
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: But I am I have been for a very very

1273
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: long time, like an inveterate fan of competitive StarCraft two. Okay,

1274
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 1: I am awful at it, Like I am terrible at

1275
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 1: that game. But I have watched so much StarCraft two,

1276
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:04,560
Speaker 1: like I I StarCraft two has become enough of my

1277
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 1: life that like like the game was part of my

1278
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 1: radicalization process, like so, yeah, I wake up extremely early

1279
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:16,680
Speaker 1: or stay up extremely late and watched Korean StarCraft two

1280
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 1: and non Korean StarCraft two, and yeah, it's it's a

1281
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 1: good time. It's I My favorite thing about StarCraft in

1282
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:27,920
Speaker 1: general is thinking about the fact that Blizzard was initially

1283
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 1: trying to make a Warhammer for video game and games

1284
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 1: Workshop was as always too paranoid of their I p

1285
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 1: to let it happen, and thus lost how many god

1286
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 1: knows how many. They would be worth more money than

1287
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 1: most countries like that been printing an impossible amount of money,

1288
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 1: like Indie Chambers would have been able to buy a

1289
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 1: mountain of cocaine to live inside. But but no, instead

1290
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 1: we got all of the infrastructure of modern esports. Mm hm,

1291
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,920
Speaker 1: which it seems fine, like it's whatever, I don't care,

1292
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 1: but it is very funny to me that they were like, nah,

1293
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:11,520
Speaker 1: this doesn't seem like a good financial decision for games Workshop,

1294
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:16,439
Speaker 1: this StarCraft thing, Like I wonder like that. That's the

1295
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:17,880
Speaker 1: kind of thing where it's like, if they made that

1296
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 1: much money, would they all just retire? Like well, I

1297
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 1: mean it's a publicly traded company, like the stock the

1298
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:28,639
Speaker 1: shareholders would have made a fortune and the but yeah,

1299
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:30,640
Speaker 1: I I don't know. It's very it's very funny that

1300
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:32,479
Speaker 1: they didn't think that was going to be worth it.

1301
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 1: Let's see in terms of how these people may not know.

1302
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:39,600
Speaker 1: I do really like cooking. I take cooking classes for

1303
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 1: a long time. Um that's been the main cook in

1304
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: my family since I was a very little kid, so

1305
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 1: I definitely definitely enjoy that. Um. I did go to

1306
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 1: film school for a few years. I want to get

1307
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:57,720
Speaker 1: back into making short video projects. Have been writing some

1308
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 1: random kind of new weird esque stuff that I would

1309
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,759
Speaker 1: love to like rent a studio space and actually shoot

1310
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 1: some silly things in the next year and throw them

1311
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 1: up online just for kind of my own fun. Um.

1312
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:18,920
Speaker 1: And then I also been still doing random occultism stuff. Um,

1313
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:26,120
Speaker 1: that's kind of how I feel my time. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah.

1314
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:28,439
Speaker 1: I think that's an answer. That is an answer. We

1315
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:32,719
Speaker 1: did it. That's an answer, and more importantly, that's an episode.

1316
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: That is an episode, that is an answer, that is

1317
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 1: a single content. You all got a content out of us,

1318
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 1: and will be proud of yourselves, replicate and reproduce another

1319
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 1: content tomorrow that's more eased to your cues. So a

1320
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 1: content every day except for the weekends, because that's the

1321
01:22:51,360 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 1: problem that we make in some holidays. Welcome back to

1322
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 1: it could happen here the podcast where Jay your Boltonaro

1323
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 1: was once again in the hospital getting all of the

1324
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:25,559
Speaker 1: feats sucked out of his in the hospital. The most

1325
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 1: consistently dying man in the world. You know what, this

1326
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 1: man in history, you know actually literally full of ship again.

1327
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,720
Speaker 1: You know what? You know what this means. It approximately

1328
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:42,560
Speaker 1: three four weeks Stephen Crowder is going to get some

1329
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 1: horrible illness. And if we said to the hospitals, well,

1330
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:51,680
Speaker 1: this cycle, this is the only like the cycle. My

1331
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:53,760
Speaker 1: hope for both of them is that they find out

1332
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 1: that each has an obscure disease that can only be

1333
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: cured by piping ship from the other into them, and

1334
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 1: so they just hook m via a tube and they're

1335
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 1: just sucking poop out of each of them and putting

1336
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 1: it into the other person. That would be very funny hot,

1337
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 1: All right, what's our first question? Our first question? So

1338
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 1: this was specifically addressed to Chris, so Chris, you can

1339
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 1: answer first, But I think this is a question for

1340
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:18,240
Speaker 1: for everyone. Really, what is your favorite piece of history

1341
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:20,560
Speaker 1: that you haven't been able to talk about yet on

1342
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 1: the show that isn't deserving of a whole episode? Favorite

1343
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 1: piece of I mean, we ain't talked about the Zapatista

1344
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:34,480
Speaker 1: as yet because I don't I don't yet feel comfortable,

1345
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 1: uh with with my level of knowledge there. But it's

1346
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 1: definitely history that's extremely relevant to the kind of ship

1347
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 1: we talked about on the show. Have I talked about

1348
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 1: the water and gas Wars o Bolivia on the show?

1349
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 1: We've talked about that at all? Either? Yeah? I mean,

1350
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 1: I thought, I mean that that probably is deserving of

1351
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 1: its own episode, but absolutely a bunch of people just

1352
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 1: literally like blocking every road in an entire country and

1353
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,679
Speaker 1: starving out the ruling class because they can't like import

1354
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 1: food into the city because they've blocked every single road.

1355
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:13,880
Speaker 1: Extremely cool, I guess in terms of like really short,

1356
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: not deserving of its own episode. I don't know either,

1357
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:21,880
Speaker 1: because I've I've been able to elongate all my periods

1358
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 1: into episodes. Yeah, I don't know that there's anything we

1359
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:26,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't cover. There's certainly things we haven't covered yet for

1360
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:29,559
Speaker 1: a variety of reasons, often just like I don't feel

1361
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 1: like we've had the time to work. There's a lot

1362
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:34,679
Speaker 1: of work. Yeah, it's like why why haven't why haven't

1363
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:36,360
Speaker 1: we done a MAO episodes? Like do you know how

1364
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 1: much ship that motherfucker got in his life? I have

1365
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 1: been like mentally, like psychologically preparing myself to start working

1366
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 1: on MAOT like this is a ah, that's that? Actually, No,

1367
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 1: it's the Mango Colts. It's definitely the Mango Colts. Did

1368
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:55,600
Speaker 1: you did you did you know about this? No? The

1369
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:59,560
Speaker 1: Mango Colts. Yeah, okay, So so MAO got like I

1370
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: forget who was I want to say it was the

1371
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Pakistan. Some some like dignitary like gave

1372
01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:07,800
Speaker 1: him a man. This is this is like this is

1373
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:09,840
Speaker 1: the beginning of the cultural revolution. Somebody gives him a

1374
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: mango and he like hands this mango off to like

1375
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 1: a red mango and like they like like this this

1376
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: turns into like a cult. Like people like they take

1377
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 1: this mango, they like preserve it. It's it's like they

1378
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: have they have like a shrine to the mango and

1379
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 1: like like there's this whole cult apparatus like builds up

1380
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 1: around just people getting mangoes as like tokens of Mao's favor.

1381
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 1: Is this this like this this massive things that is

1382
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:37,720
Speaker 1: this This this spreads like wildfire. It's like people are

1383
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: doing this in like the far western reaches of China

1384
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 1: where like like in places where like there's like like

1385
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 1: like there there are places in China where like civil

1386
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:50,720
Speaker 1: wars breakout and it takes people like a week to

1387
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: like send representatives like across China to go like talk

1388
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:55,880
Speaker 1: to the Central Committee to argue their case. And like

1389
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:58,680
Speaker 1: even in those places they have mango cults and it

1390
01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:03,080
Speaker 1: is it is wild The culture revolution is a is

1391
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 1: a it is a time. It is well I know

1392
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 1: what I'm getting everyone for Christmas this year. They're my

1393
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:14,040
Speaker 1: favorite fruit. Like, we'll see, we'll see if the species

1394
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:19,640
Speaker 1: survives this next summer. Oh we will. Yeah, we'll just

1395
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 1: be growing, just be growing in Siberia. Mangoes sprouting from

1396
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,600
Speaker 1: the corpses of fucking antelope. That is beautiful. Um. I

1397
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 1: can't think of anything. Next question, okay, uh speaking of history,

1398
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 1: I like this one. If you could fight anyone in history,

1399
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 1: wait for it and lose, who would you fight? And why?

1400
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: Who would I fight and lose and lose? Like you'd

1401
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 1: still get like a few good hits in or something,

1402
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:56,280
Speaker 1: but you'd lose David Bowie because it would be hot.

1403
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: Next question other people can answer. I guess no, I

1404
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:06,519
Speaker 1: think that's a good that's the perfect answer. Yeah. I

1405
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:09,920
Speaker 1: would happily be hit by David Bowie, so sure, why

1406
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 1: not there? Yeah? And I know that David Bowie really

1407
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:15,800
Speaker 1: loved to hit teenagers. I would be totally hitting in

1408
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:18,639
Speaker 1: the other sense, scared. I would be fine with anything.

1409
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 1: I don't care when it comes to Bowie. Wow, that's problematic. Problematic.

1410
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:31,919
Speaker 1: Uh huh. We got a few questions about the ethics

1411
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:37,120
Speaker 1: of leaving the United States as things get worse, Okay,

1412
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:41,920
Speaker 1: that's yeah. And this is something that I know we've

1413
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 1: talked about. You've got that get out of America and

1414
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:49,000
Speaker 1: I see. That's the thing is that, like I already

1415
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 1: have my Canadian passport, so that is something that I

1416
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:54,680
Speaker 1: can do at any time. And that's something that I

1417
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 1: probably will do at some point because one I can

1418
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:00,599
Speaker 1: see myself in my theorties and forties, living in Canada

1419
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:03,280
Speaker 1: will be a lot easier in a lot of ways

1420
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:06,599
Speaker 1: in terms of like how much money it will cost

1421
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 1: for me to live and pay certain things, Like living

1422
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:10,960
Speaker 1: in Canada at a certain point will just make a

1423
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:12,680
Speaker 1: lot more sense for me. So yeah, I probably will

1424
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 1: move up. Um. And I also know that getting past

1425
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 1: Canadian border patrol not that hard in terms of other

1426
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 1: people wanting to go legally or illegally. That's it is

1427
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:25,760
Speaker 1: actually pretty easy to get to get up there. Um,

1428
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:27,560
Speaker 1: if you want to do it legally, that's definitely a

1429
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 1: lot a lot more work, but also not impossible. Um. Yeah,

1430
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:33,720
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, like it's important to know that

1431
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: like moving to somewhere else is not escaping the effects,

1432
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 1: because the effects are going to reach everywhere, but it

1433
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:46,280
Speaker 1: can have a lot of advantages. Um, especially kids. Yeah,

1434
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 1: so I I say moving up is or moving away

1435
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 1: from the States is a decent thing for a lot

1436
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,479
Speaker 1: of people. I don't feel the need to stay and

1437
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:59,320
Speaker 1: fight for something that I don't really care about what's

1438
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 1: in the first place that anyway, UM, so sure do

1439
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:06,639
Speaker 1: what makes you happy in the time that you have alive.

1440
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:10,640
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a that says as ethical as

1441
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:13,760
Speaker 1: you need to get Yeah, I don't think anyone has

1442
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:18,519
Speaker 1: a responsibility to like stay in uh fight to the

1443
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 1: death uh in in a collapsing country. UM. As as

1444
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: a general rule, I'm very sympathetic towards refugees. And that's

1445
01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:30,439
Speaker 1: kind of what you would be if you're talking about

1446
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:33,559
Speaker 1: fleeing the United States because you're it's in the process

1447
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,559
Speaker 1: of falling apart and things are you suspect a lot

1448
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:38,560
Speaker 1: about to get a lot more violent, especially if you

1449
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 1: have again like a family kids. Um. I I had

1450
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 1: options to do that that I've I've chosen at this

1451
01:30:46,479 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 1: point not to um not to pursue UM but uh,

1452
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 1: I get white people would and as a general rule,

1453
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 1: like I spent I spent once when I was um

1454
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:02,120
Speaker 1: in ah in Bosnia and Serbia talking to survivors of

1455
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 1: the genocide there in the nineties, UM, I took a

1456
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:10,000
Speaker 1: train ride um from Sarajevo to like a little town

1457
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 1: near Strabernitza, and Uh, during the train ride, I wound

1458
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 1: up like hanging out with this dude who had been

1459
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:20,080
Speaker 1: born and raised in Yugoslavia and had been living in

1460
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:25,439
Speaker 1: Canada since the Civil War. And he, like very through

1461
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:27,559
Speaker 1: in his kind of broken English, explained like, yeah, when

1462
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:29,680
Speaker 1: the war broke out, all of my friends, all of

1463
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:31,439
Speaker 1: these other young guys I knew, were like, well, you

1464
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 1: know we're gonna fight, We're gonna fight. And I said, no, no, no, no,

1465
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 1: no to Canada And this is the first time I've

1466
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: been back, and that was the smart thing to do. UM.

1467
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:41,840
Speaker 1: So I'm not I mean, if you can get the

1468
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:44,200
Speaker 1: if you can get out and find a place that's safer,

1469
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 1: as Garrison said, like, there's there's nothing I think that

1470
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 1: inherently behooves you to spend your uh limited time on

1471
01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:55,799
Speaker 1: this planet struggling, And especially if you've got a family,

1472
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:57,640
Speaker 1: like doing what you can to put them in a

1473
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:01,880
Speaker 1: safer position is great. That's none of it's a permanent

1474
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 1: or even necessarily a long term solution, like the idea

1475
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 1: of moving to Canada has a lot of appeal, But like,

1476
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:09,160
Speaker 1: if you think that Canada is going to keep being

1477
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 1: what would a lot of Americans see it as as

1478
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:15,400
Speaker 1: the United States collapses into like fascism. I don't know

1479
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 1: how realistic a proposition that really is. And it's the

1480
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:20,720
Speaker 1: same for a lot of places. Like all of these

1481
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:25,120
Speaker 1: problems are global problems, and moving geographically unless you're wealthy

1482
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:28,680
Speaker 1: enough to move to like some fortified compound protected by

1483
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:32,639
Speaker 1: contractors in a place that is actually insulated from climate

1484
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:36,920
Speaker 1: change to a significant extent, um is not the does

1485
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,599
Speaker 1: not bring the degree of security you might expect. Um.

1486
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 1: I do think there is. I do think it is,

1487
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:46,680
Speaker 1: generally speaking, a noble and positive thing, uh to to

1488
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 1: to stay and try to make things better where you are.

1489
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:53,280
Speaker 1: But um, you know, I think everybody. I think everyone.

1490
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:56,320
Speaker 1: I think every single person, whether they admit it or not,

1491
01:32:56,960 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 1: would leave at a certain point if they possibly could. Um.

1492
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:03,080
Speaker 1: And I don't think anyone is. I don't think anyone

1493
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 1: owes it to the world to like, uh, die in

1494
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:13,040
Speaker 1: a place that they hate just because, um that's where

1495
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:17,439
Speaker 1: they were born. And we're back. Okay, Oh, this is

1496
01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:21,240
Speaker 1: a good one. What tool besides bolt cutters. Should we

1497
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:24,880
Speaker 1: all own in a collapse situation? First of all, bolt

1498
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:27,600
Speaker 1: cutters That should not be your first picture to for

1499
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:31,240
Speaker 1: a tool. No, No, it should be an angle grinder

1500
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 1: with a diamond blade. No. Even like water filters gotten

1501
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:38,839
Speaker 1: me out of a number of types water filtration systems.

1502
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:41,640
Speaker 1: There's starters, like, there's a lot of there's a lot

1503
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:44,519
Speaker 1: of stuff. If not evens not water filtration, you can

1504
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:46,960
Speaker 1: get tablets or honestly, like you can have a little

1505
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:50,439
Speaker 1: hand pump filter and water purification tablets along with a

1506
01:33:50,479 --> 01:33:53,360
Speaker 1: little you know, there's a number of things that are

1507
01:33:53,520 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 1: that should be in a go bag. A way to

1508
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,600
Speaker 1: get some amount of of already clean water and a

1509
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:01,560
Speaker 1: way to get more clean water. Are enough food to

1510
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:05,280
Speaker 1: at least deal with three to five days. UM, some

1511
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:09,559
Speaker 1: rope UM. A good knife multi tool is even better

1512
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:12,760
Speaker 1: in most situations if you have if you don't mind

1513
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:15,599
Speaker 1: the weight, a belt knife and a multi tool would

1514
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:18,120
Speaker 1: be great, or a multi tool in a little hand axe, which,

1515
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 1: depending on where you live, might be more useful in

1516
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:25,479
Speaker 1: splitting wood. A good fire starter, UM, some amount of

1517
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:28,600
Speaker 1: rubbing alcohol, which is always a handy thing to have

1518
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:33,360
Speaker 1: on hand. UM. Either maps or you know, batteries for

1519
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 1: an electronic device that might be able to act as

1520
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:42,040
Speaker 1: a map. Um. Yeah, that that's all useful stuff. Um

1521
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:44,439
Speaker 1: I do I I do keep in the boot of

1522
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 1: my car generally an angle grinder. Um. I have come into,

1523
01:34:48,040 --> 01:34:49,880
Speaker 1: especially living out in the middle of nowhere, a couple

1524
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 1: of situations like sometimes somebody has a health emergency and

1525
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:55,920
Speaker 1: there is a fence in the way, um, and it's

1526
01:34:56,040 --> 01:34:58,479
Speaker 1: it has been something that is and is I think

1527
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 1: going to be easier form. Old cutters are good at

1528
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:03,719
Speaker 1: what they do, they also require a lot of forearm

1529
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 1: and upper body strength that is not going to be

1530
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 1: as much of an option for people. So angle grinder

1531
01:35:08,720 --> 01:35:10,960
Speaker 1: not a bad thing to have in any sort of like.

1532
01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 1: It's especially if you like if you're if you're planning

1533
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:14,640
Speaker 1: a kid, like I want to keep ship in my

1534
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:17,639
Speaker 1: car because the wildfires are coming right. Um, well, you're

1535
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 1: probably don't want a battery powered saw. Um because depending

1536
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:22,839
Speaker 1: on the capable even if you have a very capable

1537
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:25,639
Speaker 1: off roading vehicle, everyone I know who does serious overlanding

1538
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:28,360
Speaker 1: is like, well you keep a fucking chainsaw in there,

1539
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 1: because sometimes you need to cut wood out of the

1540
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:32,040
Speaker 1: way and you're just not going to get your car

1541
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:35,000
Speaker 1: over it. Um. So it really depends on what you're

1542
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:38,920
Speaker 1: doing and like what the what the the kind of

1543
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:44,080
Speaker 1: potential threats you're worried about are um, But yeah, I

1544
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,599
Speaker 1: think the basics are way to get water, some amount

1545
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:50,680
Speaker 1: of food, ability to start a fire. Something like a

1546
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:53,800
Speaker 1: space blanket is useful. If you live in a place

1547
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:56,400
Speaker 1: where it actually gets cold, you should have a space

1548
01:35:56,439 --> 01:35:58,880
Speaker 1: blanket and a wool blanket or a couple of wool

1549
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:04,200
Speaker 1: blankets because those will retain heat much better. Wool keeps

1550
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 1: like eight of its insulating capacity even when wet, and

1551
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 1: like layering wool and survival blankets um can be a

1552
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:14,439
Speaker 1: really effective way to keep yourself from dying in in

1553
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 1: in bad weather situations. UM. That said, depending on where

1554
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:22,840
Speaker 1: you are, there may be no realistic way to protect

1555
01:36:22,920 --> 01:36:25,200
Speaker 1: yourself in the like if you are in certain parts

1556
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:27,360
Speaker 1: of the Midwest at certain parts of the winter, it

1557
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:30,000
Speaker 1: may not matter so much, like what blankets you have

1558
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 1: at access to frustrating the will there's and there's no

1559
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:38,720
Speaker 1: like structures around you, then yeah, it's negative, there's only

1560
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:43,439
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, I do love collecting a lock bypass tools.

1561
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:45,720
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite things is just to have

1562
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:50,599
Speaker 1: these practice using them. Um. Something I got for when

1563
01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:53,720
Speaker 1: I went to the Earth First Gathering that worked out

1564
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:58,280
Speaker 1: pretty well was a foldable solar panel that connects to USB.

1565
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:01,400
Speaker 1: That's enough to keep my phone allow. I've always so

1566
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:04,919
Speaker 1: in terms of always wanting a map, this little foldable

1567
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:07,160
Speaker 1: thing is enough to keep my phone able to have

1568
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:10,320
Speaker 1: a map assuming I have cell service. So I was

1569
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:13,200
Speaker 1: skeptical of how much this thing could work. Um, and

1570
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 1: it it did a decent enough job. It even kept

1571
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:19,840
Speaker 1: it even kept like my iPad pro um uh powered

1572
01:37:19,880 --> 01:37:22,679
Speaker 1: as well, so it had had had a decent amount

1573
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:26,400
Speaker 1: of square footage once you unroll it. So that was

1574
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:30,320
Speaker 1: very useful. But yeah, I mean I I really like

1575
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:33,120
Speaker 1: luck Bypass stuff. Um, it's one of one of one

1576
01:37:33,160 --> 01:37:35,720
Speaker 1: of my other hobbies. So this is you know a

1577
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,400
Speaker 1: variety of tools in that type that it's nice to

1578
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:42,439
Speaker 1: get like a decent collection of also, like especially now,

1579
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:46,439
Speaker 1: but probably in general, like have masks like just I

1580
01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:50,240
Speaker 1: mean just in general, like have masks, have lots of them,

1581
01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:54,519
Speaker 1: make sure you can change them. Yeah, I have a

1582
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:57,840
Speaker 1: gas mask if that's at all physically like respond like

1583
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,800
Speaker 1: fiscally possible for you mirror is the one I think

1584
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:06,840
Speaker 1: Garrison and I would both recommend to the really good

1585
01:38:06,960 --> 01:38:11,760
Speaker 1: gas wonderful again all of these kids, there's the kid

1586
01:38:11,800 --> 01:38:14,200
Speaker 1: are like, okay, what is the what is what's necessary?

1587
01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:16,200
Speaker 1: And then there's like, all right, if you have money

1588
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:17,720
Speaker 1: or if you have time that you want to learn

1589
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:20,320
Speaker 1: extra skills? What are other things like lock picks? If

1590
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:22,200
Speaker 1: you're just a random Joe and you've never like, don't

1591
01:38:22,240 --> 01:38:23,840
Speaker 1: throw lock picks in your kid, if you've never done

1592
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:26,240
Speaker 1: any lock picks ship, they're not going to help you. Um,

1593
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:29,760
Speaker 1: but if that that is a skill that is worth

1594
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:32,599
Speaker 1: picking up and that will make you like more resilient.

1595
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:37,719
Speaker 1: Um yeah um oh. And a fourteen point nine millimeter

1596
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 1: anti material rifle. Um, you're always gonna need one of those.

1597
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:43,600
Speaker 1: They're they stay supersonic. It up to three and a

1598
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:48,000
Speaker 1: half miles UM, which is really useful. So definitely, definitely,

1599
01:38:48,120 --> 01:38:50,599
Speaker 1: And they're only you probably aren't going to spend more

1600
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:53,439
Speaker 1: than dollars getting one set up, So it's it's really

1601
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:57,160
Speaker 1: for the price of a of a fairly new Toyota Prius,

1602
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:00,639
Speaker 1: you could have um an anti materi, a real rifle

1603
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:04,000
Speaker 1: that con pierce armored vehicles. At at several miles distance,

1604
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:07,439
Speaker 1: and really what is more pragmatic a survival tool than that?

1605
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 1: And we for it. It's only like thirty around. That's

1606
01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:23,200
Speaker 1: just a moderately expensive meal per bullet. Christopher, Uh, do

1607
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:27,759
Speaker 1: you think that corporations like Walmart or Amazon could become

1608
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:34,760
Speaker 1: more militarystic? Yeah? I mean yeah, I think I think absolutely.

1609
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:39,120
Speaker 1: The trend that worries me is Amazon's increasing um collaborations

1610
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:41,840
Speaker 1: with and deeper connections with like the FBI and other

1611
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:44,840
Speaker 1: kind of law enforcement agencies. Um. The degree to which

1612
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,479
Speaker 1: target has also like with the FBI and like with

1613
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:51,599
Speaker 1: other agencies, because they're they're anti shrink Department and whatnot.

1614
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:54,719
Speaker 1: They're like, they're the surveillance they've built to stop theft

1615
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:57,559
Speaker 1: is so advanced. They have one of the best crime

1616
01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:01,400
Speaker 1: labs in the whole United States. Yeah. UM, organizations like

1617
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:04,799
Speaker 1: Tiger Swan, which is a mercenary group that the Dakota

1618
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:07,920
Speaker 1: Pipeline people, the Dapple folks like hired to crack down

1619
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 1: on the Standing Rock protests and have have worked in

1620
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:13,960
Speaker 1: other There's other organizations like that that we're active during

1621
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 1: the BLM protests and kind of the I I do

1622
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:20,720
Speaker 1: think we're seeing a pair of militarization of a lot

1623
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 1: of these corporation, a lot of these corporations in order

1624
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:26,879
Speaker 1: to protect their what they see is their financial interests

1625
01:40:27,680 --> 01:40:30,960
Speaker 1: UM and that that is that is proceeding rapidly, And

1626
01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:33,720
Speaker 1: it's not the thing that I'm not most I'm not

1627
01:40:33,840 --> 01:40:37,920
Speaker 1: most worried about them, like do like having armed forces,

1628
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:40,360
Speaker 1: although there will be some degree of that. There's already

1629
01:40:40,439 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 1: that's already happen, Like in Portland and downtown Portland there

1630
01:40:42,920 --> 01:40:49,559
Speaker 1: are armed effectively like mercenaries guarding certain businesses in certain areas,

1631
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:53,040
Speaker 1: like as a result of like you know, to deal

1632
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:55,920
Speaker 1: with quote unquote the gun crime or whatever property crime

1633
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:57,800
Speaker 1: that's raised. But the thing that I think is most

1634
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:01,479
Speaker 1: concerning is the degree to which they are professionalizing a

1635
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:06,600
Speaker 1: paramilitary surveillance apparatus UM and Amazon has done it to

1636
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:09,080
Speaker 1: do stuff like crackdown on union organizing and whatnot, like,

1637
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:12,479
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm very concerned with that. I'm I I

1638
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:15,280
Speaker 1: think that the the dimension of it that's most frightening

1639
01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:20,160
Speaker 1: is not necessarily like the shadow run corporations buying armies,

1640
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 1: but rather corporations buying like intelligence agencies. UM. Is kind

1641
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 1: of the thing that I think will actually be the

1642
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:29,439
Speaker 1: biggest threat um because in a lot of cases, generally speaking,

1643
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:31,479
Speaker 1: if I have to deal with an armed security guard

1644
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:34,160
Speaker 1: or a cop, that security guard is going to be

1645
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:36,559
Speaker 1: less of a pain in the ass than the cop. Um.

1646
01:41:36,840 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 1: Not always, but as a general rule, I'm less worried

1647
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:43,240
Speaker 1: about security guards than cops, even armed ones. I think

1648
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:46,400
Speaker 1: another thing that's important to keep in mind is that, yeah,

1649
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, I don't, I don't. I really

1650
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:51,040
Speaker 1: don't think there's a danger that we're going to go

1651
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:55,439
Speaker 1: back to like East India company style, like people with

1652
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:58,040
Speaker 1: mass armies, because it's it's literally too expensive, Like you can't,

1653
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:01,519
Speaker 1: it's it's too expensive. And the armies that exist already

1654
01:42:01,720 --> 01:42:03,760
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, yeah, you don't need them. But but

1655
01:42:03,800 --> 01:42:05,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that the thing the thing that's

1656
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:09,759
Speaker 1: like scary outside of the intelligence stuff, which is terrifying,

1657
01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:12,560
Speaker 1: but it's the stuff they do down like acus you

1658
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,240
Speaker 1: call it down the supply chain, which is like you know,

1659
01:42:15,280 --> 01:42:17,760
Speaker 1: the cocol and murder and union organizers with paramilitaries, right,

1660
01:42:17,800 --> 01:42:21,720
Speaker 1: they tend to work through like like you know, the

1661
01:42:21,800 --> 01:42:25,200
Speaker 1: corporations will back rebel groups, right, corporations will back like

1662
01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 1: you know, in Colombia, you see a lot of this

1663
01:42:27,200 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 1: is like you have these sort of like these I

1664
01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:34,479
Speaker 1: mean something about some of the back just directly by

1665
01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:37,960
Speaker 1: landholding holding corporations. Some of them are backed by just

1666
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:41,479
Speaker 1: individual large landholders. But you get these like you know,

1667
01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:44,320
Speaker 1: you get basically these paramilitaries that are sort of the

1668
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:48,120
Speaker 1: third wave after the army goes in, and that stuff

1669
01:42:48,120 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 1: is very scary or probably we're probably gonna see more

1670
01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:54,920
Speaker 1: of that, and yeah, but but but but I think

1671
01:42:54,960 --> 01:43:00,360
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of important that there's there there's an

1672
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:04,720
Speaker 1: extent to which again you'll see them having their own mercenaries.

1673
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:08,599
Speaker 1: But a lot of the time it's there's some kind

1674
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 1: of thing when when when companies really need to kill someone,

1675
01:43:13,080 --> 01:43:17,400
Speaker 1: they tend to outsource that to aid like another sort

1676
01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:20,240
Speaker 1: of paramilitary organization that's like not directly in their supply chain.

1677
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:23,439
Speaker 1: It's like that it's not directly under their training command. Mhm.

1678
01:43:24,120 --> 01:43:27,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's a good and fun time that

1679
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:33,160
Speaker 1: we'll probably just get worse mhm. Speaking of corporate uh

1680
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:38,040
Speaker 1: funkori or whatever, a Coca Cola ad I hope, I

1681
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:40,040
Speaker 1: hope we do get a Coca Cola add because nothing

1682
01:43:40,160 --> 01:43:44,800
Speaker 1: soothes my quench like a cherry vanilla Coca cola. Nothing

1683
01:43:44,960 --> 01:43:49,200
Speaker 1: soothes your quench. That's what I said. Those are words

1684
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:52,360
Speaker 1: that came out of a Now we're back, okay, Robert.

1685
01:43:52,439 --> 01:43:56,240
Speaker 1: Somebody had a question about an article you wrote back

1686
01:43:56,320 --> 01:43:58,400
Speaker 1: when you worked at Crack about a woman who was

1687
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:01,600
Speaker 1: hiding from their family. The end an article. Yeah, you

1688
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:03,559
Speaker 1: mentioned that you haven't heard from her in a couple

1689
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:06,760
Speaker 1: of weeks leading up to and they want to know

1690
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:09,479
Speaker 1: if you've ever heard from her again. So yeah, that's

1691
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:11,760
Speaker 1: a bummer. The pseudonym I'm I'm not going to use

1692
01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:13,360
Speaker 1: her real name in this, but the pseudonym I used

1693
01:44:13,400 --> 01:44:14,880
Speaker 1: for her in the article was as Ame. She was

1694
01:44:14,920 --> 01:44:19,120
Speaker 1: a woman who lived in Um the EU, and Uh

1695
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:22,439
Speaker 1: was under threat of honor killing from her family, who

1696
01:44:22,479 --> 01:44:27,080
Speaker 1: were from Pakistan in origin Um because she was an atheist,

1697
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:31,720
Speaker 1: was not Um religious hardliner UM and didn't want to be.

1698
01:44:31,840 --> 01:44:33,599
Speaker 1: And for years she had kind of hidden that from

1699
01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:35,680
Speaker 1: her family, Like she'd moved out on her own, but

1700
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:37,719
Speaker 1: she'd hidden the fact that, like she had a boyfriend,

1701
01:44:37,760 --> 01:44:39,840
Speaker 1: she'd hidden the fact that she'd liked played dungeons all

1702
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:41,479
Speaker 1: of this stuff, like she played D and D and

1703
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:43,200
Speaker 1: was like scared that like that was like her dad

1704
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:45,519
Speaker 1: would literally kill her. And this is a thing that happens.

1705
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:47,559
Speaker 1: This is a thing that happens in the United States

1706
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:50,600
Speaker 1: and the EU. UM it's a problem with like fundamentalist

1707
01:44:50,920 --> 01:44:53,920
Speaker 1: um Islam, and that's not the only religion there's honor

1708
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:57,439
Speaker 1: killings as a result on. But that was her specific situation.

1709
01:44:57,520 --> 01:44:59,519
Speaker 1: One of the things she was frightened about is her

1710
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:02,599
Speaker 1: family go back to Pakistan regularly, and she was concerned.

1711
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:04,439
Speaker 1: She wanted to go because it was the only way

1712
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:06,600
Speaker 1: to see her grandparents, but she was also concerned that

1713
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:09,320
Speaker 1: if her parents found out when they went back, they

1714
01:45:09,360 --> 01:45:13,880
Speaker 1: would basically imprison her somewhere where she would not be

1715
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:16,160
Speaker 1: able to get out and get back to her home

1716
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:18,599
Speaker 1: and she would be forced to be married off or something.

1717
01:45:19,040 --> 01:45:21,720
Speaker 1: So she was working with an organization um in the

1718
01:45:21,800 --> 01:45:24,719
Speaker 1: country in the EU where she lived that helped people

1719
01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 1: extricate themselves and and the kind of one of the

1720
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:28,240
Speaker 1: last things she told me is that, like, well, the

1721
01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:30,160
Speaker 1: things she was looking at doing because she was so

1722
01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:33,479
Speaker 1: worried about her dad was a total break. Was like

1723
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 1: one day, with the help of this organization, she would

1724
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:38,880
Speaker 1: just be gone and in another part of the EU

1725
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:41,240
Speaker 1: and would have a complete break from her life and

1726
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:46,040
Speaker 1: would completely stop living as the identity UM she had

1727
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:49,280
Speaker 1: had her entire life. UM. And I never heard from

1728
01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:51,400
Speaker 1: her again after that, after like three or four different

1729
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:54,040
Speaker 1: interview sessions, and I still have not uh. And my

1730
01:45:54,160 --> 01:45:56,400
Speaker 1: hope is that she did the thing she said she

1731
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:59,080
Speaker 1: was going to do, and she just completely burned that

1732
01:45:59,160 --> 01:46:01,640
Speaker 1: email and every their way people had of getting in

1733
01:46:01,720 --> 01:46:04,320
Speaker 1: touch with her. UM. And she's doing great now. But

1734
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:07,120
Speaker 1: I really have no idea. UM, I have absolutely no

1735
01:46:07,200 --> 01:46:11,840
Speaker 1: idea what happened to her? Oh uh, So we would

1736
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:14,240
Speaker 1: people want an update on the quest for eel horse.

1737
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:18,800
Speaker 1: Uh Still no, still no horse. Still have not found

1738
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:23,719
Speaker 1: an entire horse carcass um. But but one day it'll happen.

1739
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:31,240
Speaker 1: You know, it will happen. Okay, it's gonna be good, Garson.

1740
01:46:32,680 --> 01:46:35,080
Speaker 1: That gator that I shoved a turkey or a duck

1741
01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:38,920
Speaker 1: inside and a turkey next too, was pretty good. It

1742
01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:40,840
Speaker 1: was great. After I took it out of the pit

1743
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:44,040
Speaker 1: as you were wrestling people screaming, Well, that's the only

1744
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:46,320
Speaker 1: way to properly cook it the right amount of time

1745
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:48,080
Speaker 1: is to get drunk enough that people have to fight

1746
01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:51,760
Speaker 1: you to remove it from the fire gear. That's how

1747
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 1: cooking works. I don't know, if you've done much of

1748
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:58,120
Speaker 1: it in your life, you'll you'll understand one day. This

1749
01:46:58,280 --> 01:47:00,519
Speaker 1: This is a question that I find interest doing because

1750
01:47:00,520 --> 01:47:02,880
Speaker 1: I feel like it really must understand, not to like

1751
01:47:03,160 --> 01:47:06,080
Speaker 1: insult the first asking it, but at think that that's

1752
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:09,439
Speaker 1: not That's not what I'm trying to do. Um. The

1753
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:13,840
Speaker 1: question is, um, what population can the post capitalist world

1754
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:17,559
Speaker 1: sustain and thrive on with our ideas and concepts? A billion?

1755
01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:20,120
Speaker 1: Like we currently have six billion to a billion less

1756
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:22,400
Speaker 1: than ability, Like, how how do people are you willing

1757
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:27,240
Speaker 1: to lose to achieve sustainability? Because I forget the community

1758
01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:30,800
Speaker 1: and are optimistic with proper technology and ecosustainability techniques, we

1759
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:32,680
Speaker 1: can maintain a population close to what we have now.

1760
01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:35,720
Speaker 1: And Yeah, I feel like just the framing of this

1761
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:40,679
Speaker 1: question kind of approaches our current problems and the solutions

1762
01:47:40,760 --> 01:47:43,120
Speaker 1: we have in a weird way, because I don't think

1763
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:47,800
Speaker 1: we're not trying to reach a peak population. We're trying

1764
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:50,320
Speaker 1: to make sure the people that we have have enough

1765
01:47:50,360 --> 01:47:53,040
Speaker 1: stuff to live well. And we have that right now.

1766
01:47:53,200 --> 01:47:57,280
Speaker 1: We we we overproduce everything. We make about one and

1767
01:47:57,320 --> 01:47:58,920
Speaker 1: a half times as much food as we need to

1768
01:47:59,000 --> 01:48:02,439
Speaker 1: to feed everybody, yet there are billions and millions of

1769
01:48:02,439 --> 01:48:05,280
Speaker 1: people who go hungry. So it's not a so like

1770
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:10,240
Speaker 1: it's approaching this issue. Yeah, so approaching this question in

1771
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: terms of like how could the post capitalist world thrive

1772
01:48:13,120 --> 01:48:15,840
Speaker 1: on our ideas, and like, I we're not trying to

1773
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:22,479
Speaker 1: like reach a certain population number, where I think going

1774
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:24,840
Speaker 1: it from that way is kind of a little silly

1775
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:26,600
Speaker 1: because I feel like it should be the opposite is.

1776
01:48:26,680 --> 01:48:29,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, I I don't know why we don't think

1777
01:48:29,360 --> 01:48:31,040
Speaker 1: we need to start with population and then go down.

1778
01:48:32,120 --> 01:48:34,360
Speaker 1: The point is is look what we have, here's the people.

1779
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:37,080
Speaker 1: Let's distribute this like a network instead of a top

1780
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:41,040
Speaker 1: down kind of system. Yeah. I I think that one

1781
01:48:41,080 --> 01:48:42,640
Speaker 1: of the things you have to if you're taught, if

1782
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:45,519
Speaker 1: you're trying to talk about social ecology, one of the

1783
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:48,880
Speaker 1: things you have to resist, um is this idea that

1784
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:53,320
Speaker 1: like they're overpopulation is any part of the problem. It

1785
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:58,519
Speaker 1: is not. Consumption is a problem, um, But there's plenty

1786
01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 1: of resources. The problem is again one of allocation, and

1787
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:04,679
Speaker 1: if you were to actually develop a much more equitable

1788
01:49:04,720 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 1: society where people were getting enough, one of the things

1789
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:09,760
Speaker 1: that we have seen demographically all over the world when

1790
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:14,920
Speaker 1: um the level of kind of um when the the

1791
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:18,879
Speaker 1: sort of resources available per capita and a population increases,

1792
01:49:19,400 --> 01:49:23,439
Speaker 1: is people have less kids um and and like I

1793
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:25,600
Speaker 1: think that, Yeah, it's certainly good to say that, like,

1794
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:28,720
Speaker 1: in a world that is more equitable, the human population

1795
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:32,560
Speaker 1: will naturally level off and decrease somewhat. But that the

1796
01:49:33,240 --> 01:49:35,960
Speaker 1: thing that's not the same as saying that, like we

1797
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:39,320
Speaker 1: need to decrease the population, we need to increase um

1798
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:43,360
Speaker 1: equity um and and make sure that people have access

1799
01:49:43,400 --> 01:49:46,840
Speaker 1: to the resources that they need um and also that

1800
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:49,800
Speaker 1: people who are massively over consuming aren't allowed to do

1801
01:49:49,920 --> 01:49:53,200
Speaker 1: that anymore. You know, that will solve the problems and

1802
01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:56,400
Speaker 1: scale back all of the resources being put towards useless

1803
01:49:56,439 --> 01:50:01,920
Speaker 1: growth and predict towards better distribution. Thus, actually, like the

1804
01:50:02,080 --> 01:50:04,760
Speaker 1: Questionnaer used the term like post capitalist. I don't think

1805
01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:06,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to a post capitalist world ever, Like,

1806
01:50:07,280 --> 01:50:08,960
Speaker 1: at least at least not when I'm allowed. I don't

1807
01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:12,559
Speaker 1: think like a world no. Will there be post capitalist areas, probably,

1808
01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:14,360
Speaker 1: but we're never gonna get there. There's never gonna be

1809
01:50:14,360 --> 01:50:16,800
Speaker 1: a post capitalist world. I don't. I don't. I don't

1810
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:19,880
Speaker 1: think that I also think it's entirely possible that we

1811
01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:22,120
Speaker 1: will reach points that people in the time will not

1812
01:50:22,280 --> 01:50:25,320
Speaker 1: necessarily consider post capitalist because it will be the same

1813
01:50:25,439 --> 01:50:28,320
Speaker 1: states and a lot of the same institutions organizations that

1814
01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:31,479
Speaker 1: were there as a kid. But people who were, you know,

1815
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:34,320
Speaker 1: looking at it from a perspective today might consider post

1816
01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:37,559
Speaker 1: capitalist because that's generally how change happens. You know. Yeah,

1817
01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:41,240
Speaker 1: about like how democracy increased in in the UK, but

1818
01:50:41,320 --> 01:50:43,080
Speaker 1: they still had like a king. It's like when did

1819
01:50:43,160 --> 01:50:45,880
Speaker 1: they They're not, they never really reached post monarchy. But

1820
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:47,960
Speaker 1: it's also not the same system that they were run

1821
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:50,880
Speaker 1: by in like fourteen hundred. You know, it's wildly different,

1822
01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:53,840
Speaker 1: and there's much more representation for more people, but it

1823
01:50:54,040 --> 01:50:56,960
Speaker 1: it's that is not you know that there's also you

1824
01:50:57,040 --> 01:50:59,840
Speaker 1: also have your your Soviet unions and you're you're killing

1825
01:51:00,040 --> 01:51:03,960
Speaker 1: csars and which are very which which is fine, and

1826
01:51:04,160 --> 01:51:08,320
Speaker 1: and and and I I like killings ours. But change

1827
01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:12,040
Speaker 1: happens in a variety of ways, and change can be

1828
01:51:12,160 --> 01:51:18,040
Speaker 1: revolutionary in its effect without being a clear break. Yeah,

1829
01:51:18,040 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think of like how we're talking

1830
01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:23,320
Speaker 1: about like the capitalist world thriving, Like I don't I

1831
01:51:23,400 --> 01:51:27,519
Speaker 1: don't view eight billion people thriving right now. Even with

1832
01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:29,880
Speaker 1: that like a lot of a lot, Like it's not

1833
01:51:30,040 --> 01:51:33,120
Speaker 1: like it's that's not what's happening right now, and we

1834
01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:39,880
Speaker 1: need to change the way like distribution of resources works drastically,

1835
01:51:40,360 --> 01:51:43,479
Speaker 1: and doing that will make everyone's lives a whole lot

1836
01:51:43,680 --> 01:51:46,200
Speaker 1: better and it will also maybe limit some of the

1837
01:51:46,400 --> 01:51:50,280
Speaker 1: endless growth. And those things aren't opposites, um, And I

1838
01:51:50,439 --> 01:51:54,000
Speaker 1: just I don't know how like we can say those things,

1839
01:51:54,280 --> 01:51:58,000
Speaker 1: but the path to getting there is certainly a lot

1840
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:01,680
Speaker 1: more ambiguous. Yeah, I think that that's I think one

1841
01:52:01,720 --> 01:52:05,040
Speaker 1: of the ways in which the Left goes wrong often

1842
01:52:05,160 --> 01:52:08,000
Speaker 1: is kind of looking at things that have been tried

1843
01:52:08,120 --> 01:52:11,800
Speaker 1: before and and didn't didn't didn't do the trick and

1844
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:14,240
Speaker 1: saying like, what we need is we need us another

1845
01:52:14,320 --> 01:52:17,360
Speaker 1: Bolshevik revolution, you know, we need to bring us back

1846
01:52:17,439 --> 01:52:20,160
Speaker 1: that you hammer and sickle. And it's like, well, you know,

1847
01:52:20,240 --> 01:52:23,120
Speaker 1: they gave it the old College try and they did

1848
01:52:23,200 --> 01:52:27,040
Speaker 1: not win. Um, And you can be angry at that

1849
01:52:27,200 --> 01:52:29,320
Speaker 1: or whatever, or you can be like, Okay, it's the same,

1850
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:31,680
Speaker 1: and hey, it's it's every tendency. I can look at

1851
01:52:31,720 --> 01:52:33,920
Speaker 1: the fucking maknos and be like, well, that was based

1852
01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:35,200
Speaker 1: as hell, and you know what, it didn't do the

1853
01:52:35,240 --> 01:52:38,160
Speaker 1: fucking trick UM. So I think there's a degree of

1854
01:52:38,240 --> 01:52:40,960
Speaker 1: humility that needs to be had in terms of like

1855
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:46,719
Speaker 1: what actual, what actual change that makes a more livable

1856
01:52:46,760 --> 01:52:48,920
Speaker 1: world will look like in the way in which That's

1857
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I did enjoy Kim Stanley Robinson's

1858
01:52:51,479 --> 01:52:53,280
Speaker 1: Ministry of the Future is a lot of it is

1859
01:52:53,320 --> 01:52:57,200
Speaker 1: about the end of capitalism in a way that is

1860
01:52:57,320 --> 01:53:02,280
Speaker 1: not UM. It's it's it. It doesn't look like a

1861
01:53:02,360 --> 01:53:04,840
Speaker 1: lot of ends of capitalism have have kind of been

1862
01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:08,599
Speaker 1: posited by UM. There's a lot of uh strong arming

1863
01:53:08,680 --> 01:53:13,160
Speaker 1: bankers into like forcing high level economic changes that put

1864
01:53:13,240 --> 01:53:17,320
Speaker 1: insto like really extractive systems and whatnot. UM, And it's

1865
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:19,640
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting. It was kind of an imagining of

1866
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:24,000
Speaker 1: how the transition could begin UM in a way that

1867
01:53:24,160 --> 01:53:27,200
Speaker 1: that isn't commonly talked about UM, at least on the left.

1868
01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:29,120
Speaker 1: And I thought it was valuable for that, and I

1869
01:53:29,240 --> 01:53:32,080
Speaker 1: think people should be I think there's I think that

1870
01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:36,920
Speaker 1: UM UM people can be more creative in how they

1871
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:39,519
Speaker 1: envisioned the way that might look than they they often are.

1872
01:53:39,920 --> 01:53:41,600
Speaker 1: And I feel like this question actually relates to like

1873
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:45,200
Speaker 1: stuff like dual power really well, because our our goal

1874
01:53:45,400 --> 01:53:49,040
Speaker 1: as individuals is not feeding eight billion people. Our goal

1875
01:53:49,160 --> 01:53:51,080
Speaker 1: is to get a garden enough so that we can

1876
01:53:51,360 --> 01:53:53,760
Speaker 1: feed most of our friends off of stuff that we

1877
01:53:53,880 --> 01:53:57,360
Speaker 1: grew for like the summer, right, Like that's like, that's

1878
01:53:57,439 --> 01:54:00,760
Speaker 1: what our goal is to is to fild it from

1879
01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:04,479
Speaker 1: that way, instead of saying, like, how how can we

1880
01:54:04,760 --> 01:54:08,519
Speaker 1: feed New York in a climate sustainable way? That is

1881
01:54:08,600 --> 01:54:11,519
Speaker 1: a very different question than being like if we want

1882
01:54:11,520 --> 01:54:15,160
Speaker 1: to integrate solar punk and like ecosustainability stuff into our

1883
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:17,760
Speaker 1: lives now, because if we don't do it, no one

1884
01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:20,600
Speaker 1: really else is really going to. Let's start with the

1885
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:22,880
Speaker 1: people you actually already have connections with, because a lot

1886
01:54:22,960 --> 01:54:26,720
Speaker 1: of it is is about building like horizontal connections as

1887
01:54:26,760 --> 01:54:30,040
Speaker 1: opposed to defaulting to this top down system of who

1888
01:54:30,160 --> 01:54:32,640
Speaker 1: has what, who needs what? And this is when we

1889
01:54:32,840 --> 01:54:36,280
Speaker 1: when we venture, when we dare to venture into the subreddit.

1890
01:54:36,360 --> 01:54:38,720
Speaker 1: One of the things I see people like critiquing a

1891
01:54:38,760 --> 01:54:41,400
Speaker 1: lot is like, well, you're you know, they keep talking

1892
01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:43,640
Speaker 1: about like all of these little like home gardening and

1893
01:54:43,800 --> 01:54:47,160
Speaker 1: like canning and and and kind of these community level solutions,

1894
01:54:47,240 --> 01:54:49,680
Speaker 1: but that's not going to deal with like this massive

1895
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:52,800
Speaker 1: systemic problem. It's like, it's not all about that. There's

1896
01:54:52,920 --> 01:54:56,080
Speaker 1: there's one. One of the methods in which you can

1897
01:54:56,240 --> 01:55:00,560
Speaker 1: ensure change is keeping you and yours alive and committed

1898
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:03,680
Speaker 1: on change. And part of that is ex hyper local

1899
01:55:03,840 --> 01:55:07,960
Speaker 1: solutions UM that also involve increasing your own idea of

1900
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:10,720
Speaker 1: your autonomy and your own and your own understanding of

1901
01:55:10,840 --> 01:55:13,560
Speaker 1: things like the food cycle, which have an impact on

1902
01:55:13,720 --> 01:55:16,600
Speaker 1: what you like, vote for and what you support pushing

1903
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:19,600
Speaker 1: for on like a societal level, the things that you

1904
01:55:19,720 --> 01:55:22,640
Speaker 1: come to better understand in your daily life, and and

1905
01:55:22,760 --> 01:55:25,640
Speaker 1: so getting involved in all of these things guerilla gardening

1906
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:28,360
Speaker 1: and whatnot UM has an impact on that. All. I

1907
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:31,959
Speaker 1: do think people underestimate, Like the largest crop by acreage

1908
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:34,000
Speaker 1: in the United States by a long shot is fucking

1909
01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:37,360
Speaker 1: lawns and replacing lawns with either zero escaping just to

1910
01:55:37,560 --> 01:55:40,960
Speaker 1: increase carbon capture and reduce water usage, or with some

1911
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:43,720
Speaker 1: sort of food growth. Doing a mix of that for

1912
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:46,440
Speaker 1: the vast majority of like lawn area in the United

1913
01:55:46,480 --> 01:55:49,520
Speaker 1: States actually would be a significant thing on a global level.

1914
01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:54,720
Speaker 1: Recommend everyone the Book of Food not lawns. Yeah, there's

1915
01:55:54,960 --> 01:55:57,560
Speaker 1: it's that that would not be a meaningless change, and

1916
01:55:57,640 --> 01:55:59,760
Speaker 1: it is something that people can have an impact on

1917
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:02,520
Speaker 1: because it is the kind of thing that if we

1918
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:05,840
Speaker 1: were to get popular enough, there's a Pokemon point, you know,

1919
01:56:05,960 --> 01:56:08,560
Speaker 1: where it where it becomes a trend um and and

1920
01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:11,960
Speaker 1: like Pokemon, if it gets popular enough, it will never die.

1921
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:14,960
Speaker 1: That's what we say about all of our stuff on

1922
01:56:15,040 --> 01:56:18,200
Speaker 1: our show. If it if it becomes like Pokemon or

1923
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:21,280
Speaker 1: or n f T point, if that's But I don't

1924
01:56:21,320 --> 01:56:24,760
Speaker 1: think in FT Pokemon is so much better than any

1925
01:56:24,920 --> 01:56:27,960
Speaker 1: n f T. Although the day that this drops, that

1926
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:30,640
Speaker 1: will probably announce the Pokemon n FT game, which will

1927
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:34,320
Speaker 1: be the final coffin in the biosphere. All of all

1928
01:56:34,400 --> 01:56:36,920
Speaker 1: of all of my Pokemons are gone. I've been had

1929
01:56:37,600 --> 01:56:42,840
Speaker 1: all my apes gone. That was my favorite post of

1930
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:45,720
Speaker 1: the holiday season. Oh, Robert, do you want to give

1931
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:47,840
Speaker 1: an update on After the Revolution? That was asked a

1932
01:56:47,840 --> 01:56:53,960
Speaker 1: couple of times. Yeah, I'm three chapters in UM so

1933
01:56:54,880 --> 01:56:58,160
Speaker 1: it'll be done hopefully at some point this year. Garrison

1934
01:56:58,240 --> 01:57:00,160
Speaker 1: Garrison has a question on that. Are you gonna pay

1935
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:05,200
Speaker 1: someone else to code the book? No, no, we pay you, Garrison,

1936
01:57:06,680 --> 01:57:09,720
Speaker 1: I don't want to code this. Yeah, well, I have

1937
01:57:09,880 --> 01:57:12,240
Speaker 1: to work on the Daily Show. Now I cannot code

1938
01:57:12,280 --> 01:57:14,280
Speaker 1: this game. We all have things to do we don't

1939
01:57:14,320 --> 01:57:20,240
Speaker 1: want to do. Oh gosh, alright, I'm so sorry, Garrison,

1940
01:57:20,760 --> 01:57:24,280
Speaker 1: so sorry. Well have you code some other people's books

1941
01:57:24,360 --> 01:57:29,440
Speaker 1: just to get stuff? No more coding. I will not

1942
01:57:29,640 --> 01:57:32,880
Speaker 1: allow it. There are there, there are experts who can

1943
01:57:32,960 --> 01:57:34,640
Speaker 1: do this a lot prettier than I can with my

1944
01:57:34,840 --> 01:57:38,720
Speaker 1: I think, Garrison, I consider you an expert. Now Ope, no,

1945
01:57:39,720 --> 01:57:42,280
Speaker 1: in in in E pub coding. I'll put that on

1946
01:57:42,360 --> 01:57:49,240
Speaker 1: my resume. Well, I think that does it for us today. Folks.

1947
01:57:49,360 --> 01:57:51,400
Speaker 1: If you want to follow us on social media so

1948
01:57:51,480 --> 01:57:54,560
Speaker 1: you can watch us promote our own shows again, you

1949
01:57:54,640 --> 01:57:57,520
Speaker 1: can go to Cool's own media on Twitter, Instagram and

1950
01:57:57,560 --> 01:58:00,600
Speaker 1: happen here pod And wouldn't that be level? We get

1951
01:58:00,680 --> 01:58:03,720
Speaker 1: so much more connections through online. That's wow? That really? Do?

1952
01:58:04,240 --> 01:58:07,520
Speaker 1: I love online? Yeah? And uh we're doing it behind

1953
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:12,480
Speaker 1: the Bastards live stream digital show with prop on. That

1954
01:58:12,560 --> 01:58:16,040
Speaker 1: doesn't sound right, doesn't This bit is so not funny

1955
01:58:16,200 --> 01:58:18,840
Speaker 1: everything time, it's not a bit. I'm just dreading it.

1956
01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm dreading it to but we're doing it. February moment

1957
01:58:24,560 --> 01:58:28,960
Speaker 1: House dot Com tickets still available. They are a moment

1958
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:32,320
Speaker 1: how come slash behind the bastards. Can I scalpel them

1959
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:38,120
Speaker 1: to the fans? I to get in there. Scarcity is

1960
01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:43,680
Speaker 1: the key. Well do that if you have disposable income

1961
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:47,720
Speaker 1: and want to watch Roberts talk. Yeah, yeah, more than

1962
01:58:47,800 --> 01:58:52,280
Speaker 1: we already do. I guarantee you it'll be worth it. Well,

1963
01:58:52,360 --> 01:58:54,440
Speaker 1: that's the episode. Thank you for listening. I hope everyone

1964
01:58:54,600 --> 01:59:00,800
Speaker 1: has uh better that would be not And I hope

1965
01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:04,200
Speaker 1: everyone has an identical two down to the day and

1966
01:59:04,520 --> 01:59:07,080
Speaker 1: until in May you realize that you're actually in like

1967
01:59:07,160 --> 01:59:10,880
Speaker 1: a groundhog Day style loop. Um, and then you would

1968
01:59:10,880 --> 01:59:14,320
Speaker 1: achieve nirvana if I'm remembering how the movie groundhog Day

1969
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:20,040
Speaker 1: went properly. Sure, Uh yeah, that sounds that sounds great.

1970
01:59:20,280 --> 01:59:24,600
Speaker 1: Have a good year, make some changes, make connections with

1971
01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:27,240
Speaker 1: people around you. There there, you just just define them.

1972
01:59:27,640 --> 01:59:30,200
Speaker 1: Talk to people who look like they have cool politics

1973
01:59:30,960 --> 01:59:33,840
Speaker 1: or or start doing cool things, you know, and started

1974
01:59:33,880 --> 01:59:36,240
Speaker 1: starting start doing cool things. Yeah. We should address one

1975
01:59:36,320 --> 01:59:38,520
Speaker 1: last thing, which is the question people ask that gets

1976
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:42,040
Speaker 1: asked a lot, but we probably can't address enough, which

1977
01:59:42,160 --> 01:59:44,720
Speaker 1: is like, there's no one around me doing any of

1978
01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:47,400
Speaker 1: this mutual aid stuff. There's nobody around me engaging any

1979
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:48,520
Speaker 1: of the stuff that I want to get how do

1980
01:59:48,640 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 1: how do I get organized and get involved? Number one,

1981
01:59:51,200 --> 01:59:53,040
Speaker 1: there are people around you doing that kind of ship.

1982
01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:55,120
Speaker 1: It may just be hard to find because of where

1983
01:59:55,160 --> 01:59:59,560
Speaker 1: you are. UM. But if you start doing ship, if

1984
01:59:59,600 --> 02:00:02,800
Speaker 1: you like, the simplest thing I can say is try

1985
02:00:02,840 --> 02:00:05,440
Speaker 1: and figure out where there's a need and start filling

1986
02:00:05,480 --> 02:00:09,040
Speaker 1: it UM. Often you will start meeting other people who

1987
02:00:09,120 --> 02:00:13,040
Speaker 1: are engaged in adjacent projects or even the same thing UM.

1988
02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:15,760
Speaker 1: And that's a way to get into it. If you

1989
02:00:15,880 --> 02:00:20,800
Speaker 1: are trying to start. If you actually get so far

1990
02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:23,320
Speaker 1: as to start serving a need in your area in

1991
02:00:23,400 --> 02:00:27,040
Speaker 1: a mutual aid capacity UM and trying to start organizing

1992
02:00:27,080 --> 02:00:29,600
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and you're doing shit, feel free to hit

1993
02:00:29,680 --> 02:00:32,440
Speaker 1: us up on email reach out. We are happy to signal,

1994
02:00:32,520 --> 02:00:36,080
Speaker 1: boost and signpost people who are have actually started doing

1995
02:00:36,160 --> 02:00:39,000
Speaker 1: shit UM. It's one of those things. Please don't come

1996
02:00:39,040 --> 02:00:41,480
Speaker 1: to I think this might be a cool idea. But

1997
02:00:41,560 --> 02:00:44,640
Speaker 1: if you start doing shit UM, and you can provide

1998
02:00:44,640 --> 02:00:47,560
Speaker 1: some evidence that you're you're doing something in your community

1999
02:00:47,640 --> 02:00:50,200
Speaker 1: that's not currently being done that is a mutual aid

2000
02:00:50,240 --> 02:00:52,480
Speaker 1: type thing, or even even a charitable type thing. If

2001
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:55,360
Speaker 1: it's if you're doing it, we will try to help

2002
02:00:55,720 --> 02:00:59,600
Speaker 1: signal boost and and can be very useful in that capacity.

2003
02:00:59,680 --> 02:01:05,120
Speaker 1: So so it's not easy necessarily, especially depending on where

2004
02:01:05,160 --> 02:01:08,480
Speaker 1: you live. But like you do, it's always possible to

2005
02:01:09,240 --> 02:01:12,840
Speaker 1: find a need and fill it, you know. Yeah, I

2006
02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:17,520
Speaker 1: found that uh uh definitely was easier before the pandemic.

2007
02:01:17,600 --> 02:01:20,360
Speaker 1: But a way that I've met people that are a

2008
02:01:20,440 --> 02:01:23,400
Speaker 1: little bit more open minded to the same things that

2009
02:01:23,440 --> 02:01:26,879
Speaker 1: I'm open minded too is going to like local comedy

2010
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:30,400
Speaker 1: shows or things things that comedy shows I'm guessing like

2011
02:01:30,800 --> 02:01:35,800
Speaker 1: farmers markets, farmers you know, wherever kind of weird not

2012
02:01:36,720 --> 02:01:39,640
Speaker 1: not in the normal culture people will go to. You'll

2013
02:01:39,640 --> 02:01:42,760
Speaker 1: probably find someone there with radical politics, and yeah, that's

2014
02:01:42,800 --> 02:01:47,880
Speaker 1: problem all those types of like like you know, countercultural

2015
02:01:48,040 --> 02:01:51,520
Speaker 1: subcultural spaces. You'll probably find someone there who's wearing a

2016
02:01:51,560 --> 02:01:55,080
Speaker 1: back patch that is something like smashed or something. You know,

2017
02:01:55,440 --> 02:01:57,920
Speaker 1: So like just like you you have to you know,

2018
02:01:58,160 --> 02:02:00,400
Speaker 1: you're not going to find them by staying at your

2019
02:02:00,560 --> 02:02:02,960
Speaker 1: in your house and scrolling on Twitter. They probably not.

2020
02:02:03,120 --> 02:02:04,560
Speaker 1: You have to kind of go into the real world,

2021
02:02:05,200 --> 02:02:09,080
Speaker 1: um as scary as the meat space maybe, yeah, And

2022
02:02:09,320 --> 02:02:11,800
Speaker 1: I would say another thing to keep in mind if

2023
02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:14,240
Speaker 1: you are in kind of a more conservative area. And

2024
02:02:14,480 --> 02:02:17,320
Speaker 1: even if you do identify as an anarchist, you don't

2025
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:19,440
Speaker 1: have to frame it that way. You can always call

2026
02:02:19,520 --> 02:02:22,640
Speaker 1: yourself a libertarian municipal list and none of the people

2027
02:02:22,720 --> 02:02:26,360
Speaker 1: who might be offended by anarchists will listen past libertarian

2028
02:02:26,440 --> 02:02:28,880
Speaker 1: and they'll decide you're fine. And that's a great way

2029
02:02:28,920 --> 02:02:35,600
Speaker 1: to to start that. Uh, ironic means the same thing,

2030
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:38,200
Speaker 1: more or less. I mean, there's other kinds of anarchists

2031
02:02:38,240 --> 02:02:41,000
Speaker 1: who are But like most people who say they're anarchists,

2032
02:02:41,400 --> 02:02:45,040
Speaker 1: if you were to call them libertarian municipalists would be like,

2033
02:02:45,120 --> 02:02:47,360
Speaker 1: all right, whatever, yeah, not me, don't call me that.

2034
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:53,680
Speaker 1: But I call call Chris that constantly. That's that's that's that's,

2035
02:02:53,720 --> 02:02:57,520
Speaker 1: that's it. We'll be back tomorrow or maybe not. I

2036
02:02:57,600 --> 02:03:01,640
Speaker 1: don't know, probably tomorrow maybe Yep. That's what I'm saying.

2037
02:03:01,720 --> 02:03:18,040
Speaker 1: And it's been said, say so, this is gonna be ship,

2038
02:03:18,280 --> 02:03:20,880
Speaker 1: this is gonna suck, this is gonna be trash, because

2039
02:03:20,920 --> 02:03:23,040
Speaker 1: no one knows what's gonna happen. I have not actually

2040
02:03:23,120 --> 02:03:26,720
Speaker 1: come up with a prediction yet. I don't know this one.

2041
02:03:28,040 --> 02:03:29,960
Speaker 1: Have I hoped one that I came up with before

2042
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:34,520
Speaker 1: the show. Have we have we opened it. Yeah, we've

2043
02:03:34,560 --> 02:03:38,360
Speaker 1: already started. Um, we were supposed to. This is it

2044
02:03:38,600 --> 02:03:42,280
Speaker 1: happen here? Everybody podcast things falling apart? How to maybe

2045
02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:46,000
Speaker 1: make them fall apart less? Um, Sophie pitched the great

2046
02:03:46,080 --> 02:03:48,680
Speaker 1: idea of why don't we do an episode that is

2047
02:03:49,160 --> 02:03:52,760
Speaker 1: our predictions? It's really not my idea when people ask,

2048
02:03:52,920 --> 02:03:58,720
Speaker 1: so this is Sophie's idea that she's been Sophie's idea alone.

2049
02:03:58,840 --> 02:04:01,560
Speaker 1: It's sprang fully formed from the side of her head,

2050
02:04:01,680 --> 02:04:05,360
Speaker 1: like Athena from Zeuss skull um. And we all agreed

2051
02:04:05,400 --> 02:04:07,120
Speaker 1: it was a good idea for an episode. And then

2052
02:04:07,480 --> 02:04:09,400
Speaker 1: I did not come up with the prediction. Did you

2053
02:04:09,480 --> 02:04:12,600
Speaker 1: get that's a bit of time thinking about not a second,

2054
02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:15,880
Speaker 1: not even absolutely love the Athena Zeus reference. That's how

2055
02:04:15,920 --> 02:04:19,160
Speaker 1: I tell people I got Anderson. Yeah, Well, my prediction

2056
02:04:19,240 --> 02:04:20,960
Speaker 1: for the year is that I'm going to keep making

2057
02:04:21,000 --> 02:04:24,080
Speaker 1: references to Athena whenever I do something that pisses Sophie off,

2058
02:04:24,160 --> 02:04:28,080
Speaker 1: so that she' I will it will absolutely work. Yeah,

2059
02:04:28,160 --> 02:04:35,120
Speaker 1: that's my prediction for prediction. Uh, okay, okay, okay, wait

2060
02:04:35,400 --> 02:04:38,680
Speaker 1: before we go into the to the to the big,

2061
02:04:38,840 --> 02:04:43,800
Speaker 1: Bigger thing, I want everybody to give one word prediction

2062
02:04:44,440 --> 02:04:48,360
Speaker 1: for how you would describe this coming here. One word

2063
02:04:48,400 --> 02:04:59,160
Speaker 1: prediction borning an f t H. I was just gonna

2064
02:04:59,200 --> 02:05:03,840
Speaker 1: say fucked. But I don't think because it's gonna be

2065
02:05:03,960 --> 02:05:07,080
Speaker 1: hot too, I don't think it's going to be that fun. Actually,

2066
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:12,000
Speaker 1: I think I was gonna say mediocre. Yeah, I'm I'm

2067
02:05:12,080 --> 02:05:19,680
Speaker 1: foreseeing a lot of blandness, a lot of blandness. My here,

2068
02:05:19,800 --> 02:05:23,560
Speaker 1: here's a prediction I'll make. I think that one of

2069
02:05:23,600 --> 02:05:25,840
Speaker 1: the things that we were seeing last year, especially in

2070
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:28,480
Speaker 1: the streets, with like the far right being so much

2071
02:05:28,560 --> 02:05:33,280
Speaker 1: more uh active um than the left in a lot

2072
02:05:33,320 --> 02:05:35,280
Speaker 1: of places and in a lot of ways, is UM

2073
02:05:37,160 --> 02:05:39,640
Speaker 1: really tired. A lot of people on the left out,

2074
02:05:39,680 --> 02:05:42,200
Speaker 1: a lot of organizers, a lot of street level people. UM.

2075
02:05:42,480 --> 02:05:46,000
Speaker 1: Not just like oh I'm tired, but like I was injured, Um,

2076
02:05:46,120 --> 02:05:50,400
Speaker 1: I'm fighting charges. My funds were depleted. I had to

2077
02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:53,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't keep going out because I have a family

2078
02:05:53,200 --> 02:05:55,560
Speaker 1: and I had to deal with that sort of ship. UM.

2079
02:05:55,960 --> 02:05:59,240
Speaker 1: And I think I don't think that energy is back yet,

2080
02:05:59,320 --> 02:06:01,480
Speaker 1: but it always ebbs and flows, and it does on

2081
02:06:01,640 --> 02:06:04,000
Speaker 1: both sides, because at the end of the day, whether

2082
02:06:04,040 --> 02:06:07,520
Speaker 1: you're a fascist or a progressive people have X amount

2083
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:10,680
Speaker 1: of energy, you know, um, and I think we are.

2084
02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:14,160
Speaker 1: I believe we are kind of at the beginning process

2085
02:06:14,400 --> 02:06:17,120
Speaker 1: of folks on the left starting to recover some of

2086
02:06:17,240 --> 02:06:20,480
Speaker 1: that energy. Um. And I think that that is a

2087
02:06:20,560 --> 02:06:24,120
Speaker 1: process we're going to see building throughout the year. UM.

2088
02:06:24,760 --> 02:06:26,960
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that. Yeah, yeah, And it will

2089
02:06:26,960 --> 02:06:29,040
Speaker 1: be a multi year process. And I'm I'm kind of

2090
02:06:29,120 --> 02:06:33,480
Speaker 1: hoping folks are ready to throw down again. But but

2091
02:06:33,640 --> 02:06:36,840
Speaker 1: we'll see like where that goes. We might have like

2092
02:06:37,440 --> 02:06:40,839
Speaker 1: a few days of people throwing down in the streets

2093
02:06:40,920 --> 02:06:45,320
Speaker 1: for some reason, like something bad may happen, like like

2094
02:06:45,560 --> 02:06:48,560
Speaker 1: late summer. I I can I can definitely see like

2095
02:06:48,680 --> 02:06:50,720
Speaker 1: a few days in July or all gust where it's like,

2096
02:06:50,800 --> 02:06:52,720
Speaker 1: oh is the thing starting again, and it goes on

2097
02:06:52,840 --> 02:06:54,240
Speaker 1: for a bit and then it kind of peters out.

2098
02:06:54,520 --> 02:06:58,320
Speaker 1: I kind of I definitely see that being a decent possibility, um,

2099
02:06:58,520 --> 02:07:00,480
Speaker 1: because yeah, I think there will be more energy for

2100
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:05,760
Speaker 1: that this year and more mental like like like ability

2101
02:07:05,840 --> 02:07:09,480
Speaker 1: to to do to do that this year than yeah.

2102
02:07:10,200 --> 02:07:13,560
Speaker 1: But overall, I don't see anything super eventful, and I

2103
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:16,080
Speaker 1: hopefully just doesn't like drink anything and then we get no.

2104
02:07:16,240 --> 02:07:20,360
Speaker 1: I mean, my my big eventful prediction is that, and

2105
02:07:20,560 --> 02:07:22,760
Speaker 1: I will explain what this is based on in a bit.

2106
02:07:23,240 --> 02:07:26,320
Speaker 1: I think we are going to see a significant sized

2107
02:07:26,440 --> 02:07:31,640
Speaker 1: urban metropolitan area be rendered uninhabitable, either permanently or for

2108
02:07:31,680 --> 02:07:34,280
Speaker 1: a significant period of time in the United States due

2109
02:07:34,320 --> 02:07:36,120
Speaker 1: to climate change. And part of what this is based

2110
02:07:36,160 --> 02:07:40,280
Speaker 1: on is the December wildfires that just destroyed a significant

2111
02:07:40,360 --> 02:07:43,200
Speaker 1: chunk of Boulder, Colorado. Right not talking about like New

2112
02:07:43,280 --> 02:07:45,080
Speaker 1: York City gets swallowed by the waves, but like a

2113
02:07:45,160 --> 02:07:48,440
Speaker 1: place where there's a couple hundred thousand people living, they're

2114
02:07:48,440 --> 02:07:51,480
Speaker 1: not able to be for either ever or an extended

2115
02:07:51,520 --> 02:07:55,480
Speaker 1: period of time because a climate based disaster hits. Um.

2116
02:07:55,920 --> 02:07:58,360
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll be a heat dome type thing. Maybe it'll

2117
02:07:58,360 --> 02:08:01,760
Speaker 1: be like a wet bulb event, maybe be um fires.

2118
02:08:01,920 --> 02:08:05,440
Speaker 1: Obviously always possible, hurricane tornado. You know, we we saw

2119
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:07,480
Speaker 1: enough just in the last couple of months in terms

2120
02:08:07,520 --> 02:08:09,760
Speaker 1: of those, like record hurricanes that killed like a hundred

2121
02:08:09,800 --> 02:08:13,240
Speaker 1: people in um in the South, or the fires sweeping

2122
02:08:13,400 --> 02:08:17,640
Speaker 1: Boulder right now and again fucking December. UM. But but

2123
02:08:17,720 --> 02:08:19,760
Speaker 1: I do think there's a pretty good chance we see

2124
02:08:19,800 --> 02:08:25,280
Speaker 1: something like that this year. I think my big one

2125
02:08:25,560 --> 02:08:28,320
Speaker 1: is that I mean, okay, so the the the obvious

2126
02:08:28,440 --> 02:08:30,720
Speaker 1: freebe is that we're gonna cross a million COVID deaths

2127
02:08:30,880 --> 02:08:32,960
Speaker 1: or like the the the official count. We were like

2128
02:08:33,080 --> 02:08:36,480
Speaker 1: we we've had ward US count hit. That's that's the

2129
02:08:36,560 --> 02:08:39,480
Speaker 1: free b. The not free b is that like it's

2130
02:08:39,480 --> 02:08:42,240
Speaker 1: not even a prediction. If that's that's that's that's what.

2131
02:08:42,680 --> 02:08:45,600
Speaker 1: I think. It's going to be warm in the summertime. Yeah,

2132
02:08:45,760 --> 02:08:47,840
Speaker 1: like you know, and the warm in the summertime is

2133
02:08:47,840 --> 02:08:51,800
Speaker 1: probably like a bigger gamble at this point than very

2134
02:08:52,200 --> 02:08:54,880
Speaker 1: very warm, but the summer st yeah. But but but

2135
02:08:55,000 --> 02:08:57,600
Speaker 1: I think the real thing is that like there there

2136
02:08:57,760 --> 02:08:59,160
Speaker 1: is never going to be never locked down the U

2137
02:08:59,320 --> 02:09:04,000
Speaker 1: S never, like you of the United States could die

2138
02:09:04,200 --> 02:09:07,680
Speaker 1: and there would be no lockdown, like and this is

2139
02:09:07,920 --> 02:09:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, and I think this this is the result

2140
02:09:09,680 --> 02:09:12,640
Speaker 1: of I don't know, I wonder what you do do this.

2141
02:09:13,080 --> 02:09:15,840
Speaker 1: My thesis for what was going on was that like

2142
02:09:17,240 --> 02:09:21,760
Speaker 1: I actually think the like the like Liberate Wisconsin stuff,

2143
02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:25,560
Speaker 1: I think that actually worked. Like those number they were

2144
02:09:25,560 --> 02:09:27,520
Speaker 1: all those giant like like a mount of people show

2145
02:09:27,600 --> 02:09:29,840
Speaker 1: up with guns to captain absolutely it worked. Yeah, yeah,

2146
02:09:29,880 --> 02:09:31,640
Speaker 1: it worked, and it was like and but but they

2147
02:09:31,680 --> 02:09:35,200
Speaker 1: did they did works. It's a very effective way to

2148
02:09:35,240 --> 02:09:37,920
Speaker 1: get things done well. But I think there's an important

2149
02:09:37,960 --> 02:09:40,840
Speaker 1: lesson here though, which is that, like, so the state

2150
02:09:40,960 --> 02:09:43,880
Speaker 1: will never like very very rarely will the state ever

2151
02:09:44,080 --> 02:09:49,560
Speaker 1: like directly like they they won't immediately back down. Right.

2152
02:09:49,640 --> 02:09:52,360
Speaker 1: What they'll do is like they'll make an enormous show

2153
02:09:52,400 --> 02:09:54,080
Speaker 1: about how they didn't grant any concessions, and then they

2154
02:09:54,080 --> 02:09:56,040
Speaker 1: will grant concessions. Like this is the thing with the

2155
02:09:56,120 --> 02:09:57,840
Speaker 1: riots rights, Like people are talking about, why do we

2156
02:09:57,880 --> 02:09:59,480
Speaker 1: not there's not gonna any more stimulus checks, right, And

2157
02:09:59,480 --> 02:10:00,960
Speaker 1: the reason there's not going the more simular checks because

2158
02:10:01,000 --> 02:10:05,160
Speaker 1: nobody's writing and you know, like what kind of stimulus

2159
02:10:05,240 --> 02:10:09,080
Speaker 1: checks you get if a couple of targets get redacted. Yeah,

2160
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:10,760
Speaker 1: like you know if if if if you burn down

2161
02:10:10,800 --> 02:10:13,240
Speaker 1: another police station, we will get more stimulus checks. It's

2162
02:10:13,280 --> 02:10:14,560
Speaker 1: just that you have to you know, there has to

2163
02:10:14,560 --> 02:10:17,240
Speaker 1: be another police station burned down. Right, But like this

2164
02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:18,680
Speaker 1: is and this is the this is the you know,

2165
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:20,960
Speaker 1: the right was extremely effective at this, right, and in

2166
02:10:21,040 --> 02:10:23,920
Speaker 1: a way that people just don't really talk about, which

2167
02:10:23,960 --> 02:10:26,000
Speaker 1: is that it is now politically impossible in the US,

2168
02:10:26,080 --> 02:10:27,960
Speaker 1: Like no, no one, no one will ever do anover

2169
02:10:28,040 --> 02:10:30,480
Speaker 1: lockdown because people will show up with guns and they

2170
02:10:30,520 --> 02:10:32,320
Speaker 1: don't want to do that, and they've decided that just

2171
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:35,560
Speaker 1: just just kill, just kill. Look, you know we we've

2172
02:10:35,600 --> 02:10:38,640
Speaker 1: already killed the entire population of Seattle, like they're dead.

2173
02:10:38,760 --> 02:10:40,720
Speaker 1: Like we'll just keep killing more people, more people, and

2174
02:10:41,280 --> 02:10:43,920
Speaker 1: just never. I think people often are going I think

2175
02:10:43,920 --> 02:10:48,360
Speaker 1: people on the left attack the Biden's COVID response for

2176
02:10:48,360 --> 02:10:50,280
Speaker 1: a lot of the wrong things. Like the thing that

2177
02:10:50,400 --> 02:10:53,040
Speaker 1: I I would go after him for is like, yeah,

2178
02:10:53,080 --> 02:10:55,480
Speaker 1: we didn't he didn't just say here's a bunch of money,

2179
02:10:56,320 --> 02:10:58,320
Speaker 1: don't go to work, We're not going back to school,

2180
02:10:58,560 --> 02:11:01,080
Speaker 1: Like stay at home is a pile of cash, which

2181
02:11:01,240 --> 02:11:04,160
Speaker 1: might have worked, it was worth a shot, But past that,

2182
02:11:05,080 --> 02:11:07,400
Speaker 1: a lot of this was beyond. By the time he

2183
02:11:07,520 --> 02:11:13,440
Speaker 1: came into office, the the armed militant cultural movement against

2184
02:11:13,480 --> 02:11:16,040
Speaker 1: the idea of COVID precautions was so advanced that like

2185
02:11:16,920 --> 02:11:20,160
Speaker 1: what do you what? What? What more could have been

2186
02:11:20,280 --> 02:11:23,120
Speaker 1: realistically done other than trying to give people enough money

2187
02:11:23,160 --> 02:11:25,000
Speaker 1: again to actually stay home, which again is the thing

2188
02:11:25,040 --> 02:11:27,160
Speaker 1: I think it's most fair to attack him on. Like okay,

2189
02:11:27,200 --> 02:11:31,000
Speaker 1: I mean like ships beyond Biden and a lot but

2190
02:11:31,120 --> 02:11:33,800
Speaker 1: like like I don't, like, okay, it was like, well,

2191
02:11:33,840 --> 02:11:36,000
Speaker 1: what could have been done? I don't know, like if

2192
02:11:36,040 --> 02:11:37,880
Speaker 1: you're looking from the perspection of the state, they could

2193
02:11:37,920 --> 02:11:40,320
Speaker 1: actually have deployed the intelligence services against them instead of

2194
02:11:40,360 --> 02:11:43,240
Speaker 1: doing like one dumb and trapment plot, right, Like well sure,

2195
02:11:43,320 --> 02:11:46,320
Speaker 1: but that's that's also that starts before Biden and by

2196
02:11:46,400 --> 02:11:49,160
Speaker 1: again by the time, I mean it's like you know,

2197
02:11:49,280 --> 02:11:50,760
Speaker 1: but like like yeah, I called her bluff, right, have

2198
02:11:50,800 --> 02:11:52,480
Speaker 1: wht people show up to the capital and then it's like, okay,

2199
02:11:52,520 --> 02:11:54,440
Speaker 1: here's the FBI, like like that that that's a thing

2200
02:11:54,560 --> 02:11:56,640
Speaker 1: that like if if you're a liberal status you could

2201
02:11:56,760 --> 02:12:00,560
Speaker 1: do and they just don't want to because like partially

2202
02:12:00,600 --> 02:12:02,160
Speaker 1: I don't want the conflict of partially because it would

2203
02:12:02,200 --> 02:12:04,040
Speaker 1: actually it would look like it would look really bad

2204
02:12:04,120 --> 02:12:06,040
Speaker 1: for them heading into the midterms. It would look so

2205
02:12:06,160 --> 02:12:08,480
Speaker 1: they're bad. And and also I think this is less

2206
02:12:08,480 --> 02:12:11,440
Speaker 1: the FBI is kind of much more centrist in terms

2207
02:12:11,480 --> 02:12:14,000
Speaker 1: of their politics as an agency. But like there were

2208
02:12:14,000 --> 02:12:17,920
Speaker 1: a lot of state Yeah, well, I mean the most

2209
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:19,680
Speaker 1: federal and state, Like I don't know that they can

2210
02:12:19,720 --> 02:12:22,720
Speaker 1: rely on them like they do that they can even

2211
02:12:22,840 --> 02:12:24,600
Speaker 1: even the FBI, it's like, yeah, they're using the proud

2212
02:12:24,640 --> 02:12:28,560
Speaker 1: ways informants like on against synarchists, Like yeah, so yeah,

2213
02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:33,520
Speaker 1: like they're not they're not, They're not like the I

2214
02:12:33,640 --> 02:12:35,600
Speaker 1: have an appreciation. What I will say is I have

2215
02:12:35,640 --> 02:12:38,160
Speaker 1: an appreciation for the fact that by the time Biden

2216
02:12:38,280 --> 02:12:41,400
Speaker 1: was in office it may have been an unsolvable problem,

2217
02:12:41,480 --> 02:12:43,040
Speaker 1: which doesn't let him off the hook for things that

2218
02:12:43,080 --> 02:12:47,240
Speaker 1: were objectively bad decisions like not doing ship for stimulus, um,

2219
02:12:47,760 --> 02:12:50,880
Speaker 1: like pushing to open the schools, like you know a

2220
02:12:50,960 --> 02:12:52,720
Speaker 1: number of other things that he's done, but also like

2221
02:12:53,520 --> 02:12:55,520
Speaker 1: if he had done all of the right things, we

2222
02:12:55,640 --> 02:12:58,000
Speaker 1: still might be at exactly this death toll because there

2223
02:12:58,040 --> 02:13:00,680
Speaker 1: are cultural issues here that we're very advanced by the

2224
02:13:00,760 --> 02:13:04,840
Speaker 1: time he took office. Um. And I do think like

2225
02:13:04,960 --> 02:13:06,880
Speaker 1: it's whatever. I'm not I'm not saying this to let

2226
02:13:06,920 --> 02:13:09,000
Speaker 1: Biden off the hook or support the Democratic Party. I'm

2227
02:13:09,000 --> 02:13:11,000
Speaker 1: saying this because people need to have an accurate conception

2228
02:13:11,040 --> 02:13:13,760
Speaker 1: of the problem. Um. And the problem is so much

2229
02:13:13,840 --> 02:13:16,840
Speaker 1: deeper than what a technocrat could have handled by making

2230
02:13:16,920 --> 02:13:28,960
Speaker 1: smart policy. At break a break and we're back. Actual

2231
02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:34,720
Speaker 1: prediction Republicans will win the Senate. Yeah, which seems pretty

2232
02:13:35,920 --> 02:13:39,440
Speaker 1: I think there's a decent chance Democrats can keep the House. Um,

2233
02:13:40,240 --> 02:13:42,320
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure, and it's going to go back

2234
02:13:42,360 --> 02:13:44,400
Speaker 1: to the Republicans. I mean, they are damn near in

2235
02:13:44,520 --> 02:13:48,320
Speaker 1: control of the Senate as it is, but they Yeah,

2236
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:52,160
Speaker 1: but I I do believe that's gonna happen. Um, And

2237
02:13:52,360 --> 02:13:54,680
Speaker 1: let's see other which yeah, it does does not seem

2238
02:13:54,960 --> 02:13:58,320
Speaker 1: that's not that far fetched of a thing. And I

2239
02:13:58,360 --> 02:14:02,520
Speaker 1: don't know, there'll be some other kind of tech factory

2240
02:14:03,120 --> 02:14:08,760
Speaker 1: the space between Elon Musk Peter Teel Silicon Valley, there's

2241
02:14:08,760 --> 02:14:12,680
Speaker 1: gonna be I think there's gonna be some worsening development

2242
02:14:13,240 --> 02:14:18,280
Speaker 1: of like tech like technocratic stuff, possibly in like possibly

2243
02:14:18,400 --> 02:14:21,560
Speaker 1: with like the mask of trying to like fix climate

2244
02:14:21,640 --> 02:14:24,080
Speaker 1: change or something. But I think they'll be a decent

2245
02:14:24,280 --> 02:14:28,440
Speaker 1: growth of tech power and possibly there like um cooperation

2246
02:14:28,840 --> 02:14:31,560
Speaker 1: with the state or the state like fund giving more

2247
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:35,080
Speaker 1: explicit like funding and permission to tech power to like

2248
02:14:35,320 --> 02:14:38,760
Speaker 1: do terraforming or like some geongineering. Like there's there's gonna

2249
02:14:38,760 --> 02:14:41,560
Speaker 1: be something related to that sphere that is a it's

2250
02:14:41,560 --> 02:14:44,120
Speaker 1: going to get a lot more visible than it is.

2251
02:14:44,920 --> 02:14:47,240
Speaker 1: My big tech prediction is that there is going to

2252
02:14:47,360 --> 02:14:49,880
Speaker 1: be a crime against humanity at some point this year,

2253
02:14:50,000 --> 02:14:52,560
Speaker 1: like on a massive scale, not like just a mass shooting,

2254
02:14:52,600 --> 02:14:55,320
Speaker 1: but like a state level crime against humanity. And we're

2255
02:14:55,360 --> 02:14:57,600
Speaker 1: going to find out that for the last like eight months,

2256
02:14:57,640 --> 02:15:01,000
Speaker 1: Facebook had been paying the perpetrators asignificant amount of money

2257
02:15:01,080 --> 02:15:03,360
Speaker 1: as a result of like some ill thought out ad

2258
02:15:03,560 --> 02:15:06,960
Speaker 1: program that they had. Yeah, like we're going to we're

2259
02:15:06,960 --> 02:15:10,160
Speaker 1: going to leave to Facebook actively funding and ethnic cleansing.

2260
02:15:10,920 --> 02:15:15,400
Speaker 1: Um because some somebody thought up some sort of affiliate

2261
02:15:15,480 --> 02:15:18,760
Speaker 1: program that was not well conceived. Um. That's my fun

2262
02:15:18,840 --> 02:15:23,080
Speaker 1: tech industry prediction. My fun tech industry prediction is that, uh,

2263
02:15:24,520 --> 02:15:28,240
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos will increasingly become the most cringe eest man

2264
02:15:28,280 --> 02:15:32,400
Speaker 1: in the world. Yeah, it is very funny that the

2265
02:15:32,480 --> 02:15:35,320
Speaker 1: picture him on New Year's he's just wearing a Dan

2266
02:15:35,440 --> 02:15:38,600
Speaker 1: Flash his shirt. He's he's absolutely wearing a Dan Flash

2267
02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:41,920
Speaker 1: his shirt. And that's incredibly fine. Robert, Robert, that shirt

2268
02:15:42,000 --> 02:15:45,200
Speaker 1: costs him three thousand dollars because the pattern is so

2269
02:15:45,880 --> 02:15:49,920
Speaker 1: very complicated and how much the lines crisscross. I I

2270
02:15:50,880 --> 02:15:52,960
Speaker 1: just I just don't like you insisting that it's not

2271
02:15:53,040 --> 02:15:56,839
Speaker 1: as much money. But despite its complicatedness, that that photo

2272
02:15:57,280 --> 02:16:00,360
Speaker 1: was my version of a holiday. Carnes said to for one,

2273
02:16:00,440 --> 02:16:07,440
Speaker 1: I know, um yeah, I think I think we're going

2274
02:16:07,480 --> 02:16:10,000
Speaker 1: to see a lot more unions this year. Yeah, that

2275
02:16:10,160 --> 02:16:12,400
Speaker 1: does seem to be a positive trend that we're seeing

2276
02:16:12,520 --> 02:16:15,560
Speaker 1: is a lot more unionization and some significant successes for

2277
02:16:15,880 --> 02:16:20,480
Speaker 1: and and a lot more like like general acceptance of

2278
02:16:20,560 --> 02:16:23,680
Speaker 1: the concept of a union. Other prediction related to to

2279
02:16:23,760 --> 02:16:28,440
Speaker 1: tech industry stuff, I think one of the billionaire space

2280
02:16:29,120 --> 02:16:34,199
Speaker 1: ships things is going to have a disastrous launch. Positive

2281
02:16:34,240 --> 02:16:37,040
Speaker 1: prediction of spaceship is gonna blow up with people inside

2282
02:16:37,080 --> 02:16:38,840
Speaker 1: it as it tries to take off. That's that's my

2283
02:16:38,920 --> 02:16:42,200
Speaker 1: positive prediction that it can take some people with it. Um,

2284
02:16:42,800 --> 02:16:44,840
Speaker 1: sorry to the people, Sorry to the workers who are

2285
02:16:44,879 --> 02:16:47,320
Speaker 1: going to be probably harmed at that, but it can

2286
02:16:47,360 --> 02:16:49,680
Speaker 1: take some people out. So it's gonna be funny. Um

2287
02:16:50,680 --> 02:16:54,320
Speaker 1: that is that's possibility. Also, uh, there's gonna be a

2288
02:16:54,879 --> 02:17:00,520
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a disastrous effect around Austin, is right,

2289
02:17:00,520 --> 02:17:02,199
Speaker 1: and that's where that's where a lot of the spacehip

2290
02:17:02,240 --> 02:17:04,160
Speaker 1: stuff is getting set up. There's no, no, no, no,

2291
02:17:04,320 --> 02:17:07,400
Speaker 1: it's that's just where the offices are. It's like Chica,

2292
02:17:07,560 --> 02:17:10,480
Speaker 1: it's like on the coast of Texas, not close enough

2293
02:17:10,520 --> 02:17:13,160
Speaker 1: to Austin. Some some piece of a spaceship is gonna

2294
02:17:13,160 --> 02:17:16,039
Speaker 1: fly through someone's house. No one's gonna care about it. Um,

2295
02:17:16,800 --> 02:17:18,680
Speaker 1: there gets brought, gonna kill a family or something, No

2296
02:17:18,760 --> 02:17:21,680
Speaker 1: one's gonna care. Nothing's gonna happen. It'll be fine that

2297
02:17:21,959 --> 02:17:25,120
Speaker 1: Those are my more my tech industry predictions related to

2298
02:17:26,000 --> 02:17:30,240
Speaker 1: spaceship stuff. Yeah, um yeah. I I also think on

2299
02:17:30,400 --> 02:17:34,520
Speaker 1: on a more I don't know how the current civil

2300
02:17:34,560 --> 02:17:38,360
Speaker 1: war in Myanmar is going to shake out, but I

2301
02:17:40,120 --> 02:17:43,240
Speaker 1: think there's a chance that it becomes the first kay

2302
02:17:43,560 --> 02:17:47,440
Speaker 1: place where there is a successful or at least partially

2303
02:17:47,520 --> 02:17:52,039
Speaker 1: successful revolutionary movement that is to a significant extent armed

2304
02:17:52,120 --> 02:17:56,320
Speaker 1: via three D printed weaponry. Um. They've all we've already

2305
02:17:56,360 --> 02:18:00,400
Speaker 1: seen a lot of that deployed by um, the the

2306
02:18:00,480 --> 02:18:04,720
Speaker 1: rebels in Myanmar. Um. I'm interested in watching that because

2307
02:18:04,760 --> 02:18:06,959
Speaker 1: it's kind of the first time we've seen that technology

2308
02:18:07,160 --> 02:18:10,360
Speaker 1: used on a meaningful scale by people that aren't like

2309
02:18:10,520 --> 02:18:14,600
Speaker 1: organized crime. UM. And yeah, I think it's still too

2310
02:18:14,640 --> 02:18:16,520
Speaker 1: early to tell, like how much of an actual like

2311
02:18:16,640 --> 02:18:18,680
Speaker 1: whether or not it's just kind of a distraction from

2312
02:18:19,320 --> 02:18:22,440
Speaker 1: the more meaningful aspects of the struggle or the more

2313
02:18:22,520 --> 02:18:26,560
Speaker 1: meaningful like kind of deployments of weaponry and other tools

2314
02:18:26,600 --> 02:18:28,160
Speaker 1: in the struggle, or whether or not it will actually

2315
02:18:28,200 --> 02:18:30,680
Speaker 1: play a significant role in the armed struggle. But it's

2316
02:18:30,760 --> 02:18:33,680
Speaker 1: it's very much worth watching if you're somebody who pays

2317
02:18:33,680 --> 02:18:38,680
Speaker 1: attention to insurgent movements and what is increasingly possible as

2318
02:18:38,680 --> 02:18:45,960
Speaker 1: a result of new technology. I have another really bad prediction.

2319
02:18:47,480 --> 02:18:49,080
Speaker 1: J K. Rowling is going to release a book on

2320
02:18:49,160 --> 02:18:57,240
Speaker 1: gender orcial fund to YouTube channel, yeah something. I think.

2321
02:18:57,520 --> 02:18:59,600
Speaker 1: I think there's a decent chance she has been writing

2322
02:18:59,640 --> 02:19:01,880
Speaker 1: a book about gender and she's going to release in

2323
02:19:02,560 --> 02:19:05,880
Speaker 1: two I think that as an actual, actual series prediction.

2324
02:19:06,560 --> 02:19:10,480
Speaker 1: Just go away and a whole bunch of liberal moms

2325
02:19:10,520 --> 02:19:12,280
Speaker 1: are gonna buy it for each other and they're gonna

2326
02:19:12,320 --> 02:19:15,440
Speaker 1: read it, and it's gonna be bad. And that is

2327
02:19:15,680 --> 02:19:20,080
Speaker 1: that is my that's my that's my horrible prediction. She

2328
02:19:20,160 --> 02:19:23,240
Speaker 1: could be so beloved if she had limited her comments

2329
02:19:23,360 --> 02:19:26,320
Speaker 1: after publishing Harry Potter, if she repeatedly telling people that

2330
02:19:26,800 --> 02:19:29,879
Speaker 1: are constantly shifting their pants, if she just didn't use

2331
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:33,240
Speaker 1: Twitter after anything at all, and she could have been

2332
02:19:33,440 --> 02:19:36,040
Speaker 1: a different person. It's it's the Dave Chappelle thing. Just

2333
02:19:36,120 --> 02:19:38,520
Speaker 1: stay off. We all we all would have loved you. Forever.

2334
02:19:38,640 --> 02:19:40,959
Speaker 1: If you just just gone off and counted your money

2335
02:19:41,000 --> 02:19:44,959
Speaker 1: and left us alone. Yeah, go be rich somewhere. It's

2336
02:19:45,000 --> 02:19:47,240
Speaker 1: fine to be done. It's fine to be done being

2337
02:19:47,320 --> 02:19:50,080
Speaker 1: famous and influential. You you had, you did great, You

2338
02:19:50,160 --> 02:19:53,920
Speaker 1: did great. You never needed to come back. She I

2339
02:19:54,000 --> 02:19:56,440
Speaker 1: don't she did. I'm not sure if she did great?

2340
02:19:56,560 --> 02:20:00,440
Speaker 1: She did? She did, she did. Look again, this is

2341
02:20:00,480 --> 02:20:03,240
Speaker 1: all colored. But if she had never come back into

2342
02:20:03,280 --> 02:20:04,680
Speaker 1: the public eye, all it would have been as like

2343
02:20:04,760 --> 02:20:06,879
Speaker 1: you remember that lady who got like twelve year olds

2344
02:20:06,920 --> 02:20:10,000
Speaker 1: to read seven d page books that one time, Like,

2345
02:20:10,160 --> 02:20:12,720
Speaker 1: people would not be as critical of the actual content

2346
02:20:12,800 --> 02:20:17,119
Speaker 1: of the Harry Potter books if she just hadn't kept

2347
02:20:17,520 --> 02:20:21,640
Speaker 1: coming back and saying ship so that and and and

2348
02:20:21,879 --> 02:20:25,560
Speaker 1: and then like didn't stop and then did not stop,

2349
02:20:25,760 --> 02:20:29,560
Speaker 1: and then was told bad, really really bad, and then

2350
02:20:29,680 --> 02:20:31,959
Speaker 1: kept doing it and kept doing it, and kept doing

2351
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:36,440
Speaker 1: it and kept doing it. You know what people should beat. Look,

2352
02:20:36,520 --> 02:20:38,560
Speaker 1: if you're if you're listening to this and you're a

2353
02:20:38,640 --> 02:20:41,880
Speaker 1: millionaire who was like hugely popular for some cultural reason

2354
02:20:41,920 --> 02:20:44,840
Speaker 1: in the late nineties and early two thousand's, think about

2355
02:20:44,920 --> 02:20:50,600
Speaker 1: Bill Waterson. Bill Waterson ends the most popular comic strip

2356
02:20:50,720 --> 02:20:54,040
Speaker 1: in the history of comics and spends the rest of

2357
02:20:54,160 --> 02:20:57,560
Speaker 1: his life and fucking Iowa painting landscapes and never talks

2358
02:20:57,640 --> 02:21:01,640
Speaker 1: to anybody with a platform again, and I everybody loves

2359
02:21:01,680 --> 02:21:04,920
Speaker 1: Bill Waterson. Like not a single person has a criticism

2360
02:21:05,000 --> 02:21:08,040
Speaker 1: of Bill Waterson. Um, just do that, Just do what

2361
02:21:08,200 --> 02:21:10,840
Speaker 1: he did. Just go paint landscapes in Iowa and don't

2362
02:21:10,879 --> 02:21:14,480
Speaker 1: talk to journalists or get on Twitter. It's fine. Does

2363
02:21:14,520 --> 02:21:17,600
Speaker 1: Bill Waterson believe regressive things about gender? Nobody knows because

2364
02:21:17,600 --> 02:21:21,200
Speaker 1: he doesn't say anything. I think another prediction that is

2365
02:21:21,200 --> 02:21:25,440
Speaker 1: actually decently possible. I think we will get more and

2366
02:21:25,520 --> 02:21:30,440
Speaker 1: more cities and or states to decriminalize hard drugs in

2367
02:21:30,800 --> 02:21:35,280
Speaker 1: in certain possession amounts. Um. I think there is a

2368
02:21:35,400 --> 02:21:39,000
Speaker 1: there's a number of bills going around California, UM and

2369
02:21:39,080 --> 02:21:41,320
Speaker 1: a lot of other states, and I believe that will

2370
02:21:41,360 --> 02:21:44,080
Speaker 1: be start to become more and more common, which will

2371
02:21:44,080 --> 02:21:46,480
Speaker 1: be great. It would be nice if they get legalized.

2372
02:21:46,600 --> 02:21:51,560
Speaker 1: But you know, get get get what you can for now. Um. Yeah,

2373
02:21:52,840 --> 02:21:58,840
Speaker 1: speaking of drugs, Uh, here's CDD oil sponsored by heroin,

2374
02:21:59,240 --> 02:22:02,400
Speaker 1: by by big drug. Here we go have fun to

2375
02:22:02,440 --> 02:22:05,200
Speaker 1: stay safe. We're back, and I just want to let

2376
02:22:05,240 --> 02:22:10,280
Speaker 1: everybody know that if if everything gets legalized, we will

2377
02:22:10,440 --> 02:22:13,680
Speaker 1: be sponsored by meth amphetamines so fucking quickly it will

2378
02:22:13,720 --> 02:22:15,680
Speaker 1: make your head spin. I will never turn down a

2379
02:22:15,800 --> 02:22:18,840
Speaker 1: drug sponsor, um, except for like super foods. We don't

2380
02:22:18,879 --> 02:22:22,080
Speaker 1: do super foods, we don't do brain pills. But heroin.

2381
02:22:22,280 --> 02:22:25,080
Speaker 1: I would advertise the ship out of heroin. I'm already

2382
02:22:25,160 --> 02:22:28,840
Speaker 1: ready to advertise hair the hair lost. Drugs we don't do,

2383
02:22:29,680 --> 02:22:35,520
Speaker 1: but heroin. H Hey, is life depressing? You know it?

2384
02:22:37,480 --> 02:22:41,640
Speaker 1: He hated that I helped that bit. Uh, Chris, you

2385
02:22:41,720 --> 02:22:45,000
Speaker 1: were you were saying something before break My My one

2386
02:22:45,040 --> 02:22:49,680
Speaker 1: serious prediction is I don't think we've I think we're

2387
02:22:49,840 --> 02:22:53,080
Speaker 1: gonna get one more big like Latin American uprising, and

2388
02:22:53,120 --> 02:22:55,240
Speaker 1: it will not be in Argentina. I have been eating

2389
02:22:55,280 --> 02:22:58,040
Speaker 1: ship for three goddamn years predicting it's gonna be Argentina.

2390
02:22:58,240 --> 02:22:59,960
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, they're getting an IMF bailout, Like, oh,

2391
02:23:00,120 --> 02:23:01,960
Speaker 1: it's never Argentina. It won't be Argentina. It will be

2392
02:23:02,000 --> 02:23:05,080
Speaker 1: somewhere else. But someone is someone is going to spend

2393
02:23:05,280 --> 02:23:08,160
Speaker 1: like two months doing a bunch of stuff that's extremely

2394
02:23:08,240 --> 02:23:12,600
Speaker 1: cool outside of Argentina. I kind of think, Um, I

2395
02:23:12,640 --> 02:23:14,240
Speaker 1: don't know I'll be interested to see what happens in

2396
02:23:14,280 --> 02:23:17,680
Speaker 1: Brazil because um, it's hard to get a sense for

2397
02:23:17,720 --> 02:23:22,080
Speaker 1: the exact numbers, but there's potential there. There is potential

2398
02:23:22,120 --> 02:23:24,240
Speaker 1: there with what's happened in Bolivia and what's happened in Chile.

2399
02:23:24,400 --> 02:23:30,920
Speaker 1: There's there's momentum in its exciting broad area. Like I mean,

2400
02:23:31,120 --> 02:23:34,240
Speaker 1: like the os there's shoot, there's like enormous protests in

2401
02:23:34,320 --> 02:23:37,080
Speaker 1: Brazil like all the time. Yeah, yeah, there's like massive,

2402
02:23:37,120 --> 02:23:39,960
Speaker 1: it just hasn't sort of like like it hasn't turned

2403
02:23:40,000 --> 02:23:43,400
Speaker 1: into like everyone fighting the cops and like yeah, and

2404
02:23:43,760 --> 02:23:47,520
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know if it will because like I

2405
02:23:47,560 --> 02:23:49,040
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, this is this is This is

2406
02:23:49,160 --> 02:23:53,360
Speaker 1: my vibes based interpretation of it. But it feels like

2407
02:23:53,600 --> 02:23:57,040
Speaker 1: the Workers Party has enough of a handle on the

2408
02:23:57,120 --> 02:24:00,240
Speaker 1: protests that they're not gonna sort of like explore load

2409
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:03,480
Speaker 1: because the PC just wants to win its election and

2410
02:24:03,920 --> 02:24:07,160
Speaker 1: get out of bulson Aro. Well yeah, and I mean

2411
02:24:07,640 --> 02:24:11,279
Speaker 1: the possibility of any kind of like actual revolutionary insurrection

2412
02:24:11,320 --> 02:24:16,080
Speaker 1: anything relies heavily on like that path not working for people,

2413
02:24:16,360 --> 02:24:18,160
Speaker 1: Like they're not that they're not being that kind of safety.

2414
02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:20,000
Speaker 1: But well, I mean I say this if they arrest

2415
02:24:20,120 --> 02:24:23,800
Speaker 1: Lula again, Like yeah, I don't think Bolson like I

2416
02:24:23,840 --> 02:24:26,560
Speaker 1: think there will die in his own ship, Like yeah,

2417
02:24:27,160 --> 02:24:29,840
Speaker 1: that might happen even if his party stays in power.

2418
02:24:29,879 --> 02:24:32,920
Speaker 1: I mean that he was actively dying as we record

2419
02:24:33,000 --> 02:24:37,200
Speaker 1: this episode, which is very funny. Um, I got as

2420
02:24:37,240 --> 02:24:39,600
Speaker 1: a result of one of our ad campaigns, several or

2421
02:24:39,640 --> 02:24:43,119
Speaker 1: a picture frames uh this year, and right now we're

2422
02:24:43,160 --> 02:24:45,680
Speaker 1: loading one up. That's just pictures of sick Bulson narrow

2423
02:24:45,720 --> 02:24:48,240
Speaker 1: to keep in my living room. So anytime I walk past,

2424
02:24:48,320 --> 02:24:50,600
Speaker 1: I can look at JayR. Bolson naro and hacking up

2425
02:24:50,600 --> 02:24:53,320
Speaker 1: a lung or having ships sucked out of his nose

2426
02:24:53,400 --> 02:24:57,440
Speaker 1: from a tube. Um, I will say, oh, by my

2427
02:24:57,720 --> 02:25:00,040
Speaker 1: one more. Like very fast prediction about this is that

2428
02:25:00,080 --> 02:25:03,560
Speaker 1: Kissinger is gonna live. He's not gonna die. Damnit, Chris.

2429
02:25:05,680 --> 02:25:09,680
Speaker 1: You allow myself to hope for one for about I

2430
02:25:09,680 --> 02:25:11,320
Speaker 1: allow myself to hope for about eight hours, and I

2431
02:25:11,360 --> 02:25:15,120
Speaker 1: think it's gonna live, but immediately wrong. I don't know.

2432
02:25:15,640 --> 02:25:18,119
Speaker 1: It would have been pretty cool if Betty White's last

2433
02:25:18,160 --> 02:25:24,320
Speaker 1: action had been some sort of anti takeout Kissinger. She

2434
02:25:24,840 --> 02:25:27,360
Speaker 1: becomes the most loved American and human history, like goes

2435
02:25:27,440 --> 02:25:30,080
Speaker 1: out just like jumping out of an airplane, like she

2436
02:25:30,320 --> 02:25:39,280
Speaker 1: parachutes Kissinger's house with a Flansing knife. I'm gonna say,

2437
02:25:39,520 --> 02:25:43,160
Speaker 1: in Colorado, Oregon, or Washington, we're going to get our

2438
02:25:43,240 --> 02:25:48,640
Speaker 1: first safe uh drug injections side opened. I know they've

2439
02:25:48,640 --> 02:25:51,160
Speaker 1: been very pretty good. They've been They've been very successful

2440
02:25:51,400 --> 02:25:55,840
Speaker 1: inside different parts of Canada, specifically Vancouver, BC. And I

2441
02:25:55,920 --> 02:25:57,760
Speaker 1: believe one of those three states is going to get

2442
02:25:57,760 --> 02:25:59,920
Speaker 1: the first one. Um. I hope it's all of them.

2443
02:26:00,400 --> 02:26:01,960
Speaker 1: If you want to support some of those people up

2444
02:26:01,959 --> 02:26:04,760
Speaker 1: in Canada, go to heroin Martin by a shoot dope

2445
02:26:04,800 --> 02:26:09,600
Speaker 1: fu the cops hoodie. Yeah, but say like safe safe

2446
02:26:09,680 --> 02:26:13,800
Speaker 1: drug injection and ingestion sites are have been have been

2447
02:26:13,959 --> 02:26:17,680
Speaker 1: very good at preventing deaths in Vancouver, BC. And there's

2448
02:26:17,720 --> 02:26:19,520
Speaker 1: just a good idea in general, and I will be

2449
02:26:19,560 --> 02:26:22,160
Speaker 1: excited at the prospect. They're an incredibly good idea. And

2450
02:26:22,280 --> 02:26:25,160
Speaker 1: they also if you're trying to again talk about this

2451
02:26:25,280 --> 02:26:28,760
Speaker 1: to conservatives in your life, they're cheaper than just letting

2452
02:26:28,800 --> 02:26:31,760
Speaker 1: people be addicted to drugs on the street because people

2453
02:26:31,840 --> 02:26:35,280
Speaker 1: don't steal stuff. Also, their heroin is free. Also, they

2454
02:26:35,320 --> 02:26:37,840
Speaker 1: won't have ridiculous medical bills. They get paid by the state,

2455
02:26:38,280 --> 02:26:41,160
Speaker 1: and they're more likely to seek treatment even if you

2456
02:26:41,200 --> 02:26:44,520
Speaker 1: don't mandate that, especially if you don't mandate that, because

2457
02:26:44,600 --> 02:26:48,800
Speaker 1: as a rule, people don't like having problematic addictions to drugs,

2458
02:26:48,920 --> 02:26:52,600
Speaker 1: and if they can deal with their immediate needs and

2459
02:26:52,760 --> 02:26:55,440
Speaker 1: also know that there's help available, they will often choose

2460
02:26:55,520 --> 02:26:59,080
Speaker 1: to get help. So and I think I have I

2461
02:26:59,120 --> 02:27:02,760
Speaker 1: have one more actual prediction is that a new Matrix

2462
02:27:02,879 --> 02:27:05,400
Speaker 1: video game what will be announced? And that is that

2463
02:27:05,560 --> 02:27:08,000
Speaker 1: is all of my predictions. Oh, we should probably talk

2464
02:27:08,000 --> 02:27:10,760
Speaker 1: about Matrix for briefly. That's what the people want. Garrison

2465
02:27:10,959 --> 02:27:14,520
Speaker 1: it and and for the record, this is going to

2466
02:27:14,600 --> 02:27:17,640
Speaker 1: be controversial because some people have no taste, but we

2467
02:27:17,760 --> 02:27:21,920
Speaker 1: both think it fucking ruled. It is possibly the best

2468
02:27:22,000 --> 02:27:25,520
Speaker 1: Matrix film. It was really fun. It's it's very good.

2469
02:27:25,600 --> 02:27:27,520
Speaker 1: If you think about it for any amount of time,

2470
02:27:27,680 --> 02:27:31,560
Speaker 1: it gets very good in the way it addresses um

2471
02:27:32,120 --> 02:27:35,320
Speaker 1: the system's power to incorporate Revolt as a part of

2472
02:27:35,360 --> 02:27:39,760
Speaker 1: the system, which was already teased inside me monti asthetic, Yeah, reloaded,

2473
02:27:39,800 --> 02:27:42,480
Speaker 1: but yeah, like the Matrix using the weapon that wants

2474
02:27:42,520 --> 02:27:45,120
Speaker 1: to find you against you, and the Matrix weaponizing all

2475
02:27:45,160 --> 02:27:49,040
Speaker 1: of your ideas against you, Um is very good. Um.

2476
02:27:50,160 --> 02:27:51,880
Speaker 1: I know Lana put a lot of thought into this,

2477
02:27:52,120 --> 02:27:55,640
Speaker 1: particularly around who she is, how she's developed, and how

2478
02:27:55,800 --> 02:27:59,680
Speaker 1: her work has been turned against her and what she believes. UM,

2479
02:28:00,080 --> 02:28:02,600
Speaker 1: both by like the people and also like corporately in

2480
02:28:02,800 --> 02:28:06,400
Speaker 1: terms of like achieving the correct amount of meta that

2481
02:28:06,560 --> 02:28:10,640
Speaker 1: it's not useless drivel while still actually being aware of

2482
02:28:10,760 --> 02:28:13,440
Speaker 1: what it is. Um. I think was done. Well. I

2483
02:28:13,520 --> 02:28:16,320
Speaker 1: know there's there's some people and like the postmodern thing,

2484
02:28:16,400 --> 02:28:19,720
Speaker 1: who think it don't, who think it doesn't go meta enough.

2485
02:28:19,800 --> 02:28:22,320
Speaker 1: And I think that's nonsense because if you go any

2486
02:28:22,400 --> 02:28:25,080
Speaker 1: if you if you point out that pointing out, that

2487
02:28:25,240 --> 02:28:27,959
Speaker 1: pointing out revolt against the system is part of the system,

2488
02:28:28,240 --> 02:28:31,000
Speaker 1: then you've lost everybody. Like no one cares because you

2489
02:28:31,200 --> 02:28:34,320
Speaker 1: can add on those layers endlessly and it's just dribble. Um.

2490
02:28:34,400 --> 02:28:37,040
Speaker 1: So I think they got the correct amount of meta. Well,

2491
02:28:37,160 --> 02:28:39,440
Speaker 1: then a band not not abandoned that idea but moving

2492
02:28:39,480 --> 02:28:40,960
Speaker 1: it on mean, like you know, you know, it's more

2493
02:28:41,000 --> 02:28:44,120
Speaker 1: important than being meta is making friends and finding human

2494
02:28:44,200 --> 02:28:47,760
Speaker 1: connections because going through the world like this isolated, like

2495
02:28:47,840 --> 02:28:50,240
Speaker 1: Thomas Anderson is when he's in the Matrix, as like

2496
02:28:50,360 --> 02:28:52,400
Speaker 1: as as games that are A big part of that

2497
02:28:52,440 --> 02:28:54,959
Speaker 1: problem is that he's very isolated, and the whole point

2498
02:28:55,080 --> 02:28:57,879
Speaker 1: is like, no, you need to find friends, find connections,

2499
02:28:58,240 --> 02:29:01,920
Speaker 1: get like like be have people around you to build

2500
02:29:01,959 --> 02:29:05,280
Speaker 1: a network of and they actually start like like loving

2501
02:29:05,320 --> 02:29:08,520
Speaker 1: other people is really one of the only ways out

2502
02:29:08,560 --> 02:29:12,680
Speaker 1: of this looping cycle and layering of Matrix is that

2503
02:29:12,760 --> 02:29:16,879
Speaker 1: we always live in um. It was. It's a wonderful film.

2504
02:29:17,800 --> 02:29:19,520
Speaker 1: I can talk about I could, I could talk about

2505
02:29:19,520 --> 02:29:21,560
Speaker 1: it for hours, but we could do a whole podcast

2506
02:29:22,360 --> 02:29:25,880
Speaker 1: about why we enjoyed Matrix four UM, but it's it's

2507
02:29:26,040 --> 02:29:28,760
Speaker 1: pretty fun and my only the only thing I'll add

2508
02:29:28,800 --> 02:29:31,800
Speaker 1: to that is a lot of people fools is what

2509
02:29:31,959 --> 02:29:34,080
Speaker 1: I call them, are angry at the fact that it

2510
02:29:34,240 --> 02:29:38,880
Speaker 1: ended with the Brass Against cover of It was so

2511
02:29:39,080 --> 02:29:44,840
Speaker 1: good it was, and it the cover of that song

2512
02:29:45,080 --> 02:29:47,520
Speaker 1: opens an exactly so that the singer, the lead singer

2513
02:29:47,560 --> 02:29:51,920
Speaker 1: of Brass Against, became briefly famous mid late last year

2514
02:29:52,480 --> 02:29:56,160
Speaker 1: UM when during while playing that exact song on stage

2515
02:29:57,160 --> 02:30:01,680
Speaker 1: into a fan's mouth and the song that the cover

2516
02:30:01,840 --> 02:30:04,360
Speaker 1: that ends the Matrix starts at exactly the moment where

2517
02:30:04,400 --> 02:30:06,400
Speaker 1: she pete in that guy's mouth during the live show,

2518
02:30:06,720 --> 02:30:09,480
Speaker 1: and I am certain that Lana Wachowski was planning to

2519
02:30:09,600 --> 02:30:12,520
Speaker 1: use the original Rage against the Machine version of that song,

2520
02:30:13,160 --> 02:30:15,320
Speaker 1: and then that news dropped and was like, well, let's

2521
02:30:15,320 --> 02:30:17,880
Speaker 1: get these brass against people I I want, I want

2522
02:30:17,920 --> 02:30:23,800
Speaker 1: the Piste song, the other thing I wanted. They is

2523
02:30:24,879 --> 02:30:28,200
Speaker 1: reflecting on the analyst as a character and how he

2524
02:30:28,360 --> 02:30:32,600
Speaker 1: relates to kind of the meat space argument and how

2525
02:30:32,760 --> 02:30:36,280
Speaker 1: digital systems and algorithms and social media operates. He if

2526
02:30:36,320 --> 02:30:40,320
Speaker 1: you listen to him talk um and within the whole context,

2527
02:30:40,720 --> 02:30:43,800
Speaker 1: within the whole context of the film, he um. They

2528
02:30:43,879 --> 02:30:47,120
Speaker 1: think there's actually some more insightful points than what you

2529
02:30:47,240 --> 02:30:51,640
Speaker 1: might originally suspect around like social media um and digital

2530
02:30:52,080 --> 02:30:56,560
Speaker 1: nous versus realness um just always you know, always a

2531
02:30:56,720 --> 02:30:59,680
Speaker 1: factor in in matrix films. But the way, the way

2532
02:30:59,720 --> 02:31:01,000
Speaker 1: they into it and this so much thing is a

2533
02:31:01,040 --> 02:31:03,120
Speaker 1: lot more mature than all the topics they handle in

2534
02:31:03,160 --> 02:31:05,760
Speaker 1: their previous films. And I mean there's just so many

2535
02:31:05,840 --> 02:31:09,240
Speaker 1: like really good like single lines that offer like really

2536
02:31:09,360 --> 02:31:11,840
Speaker 1: good like oh wow, like that's just like a very

2537
02:31:11,920 --> 02:31:14,120
Speaker 1: good point, and then they just move past them so

2538
02:31:14,400 --> 02:31:17,480
Speaker 1: like so effortlessly, like you could focus on any one

2539
02:31:17,560 --> 02:31:20,080
Speaker 1: of those really good lines, and they just offer up

2540
02:31:20,160 --> 02:31:23,400
Speaker 1: so many and at many points, and I like that

2541
02:31:23,480 --> 02:31:26,480
Speaker 1: they turned the Mayor of Engian into Ted Kaczynski. Um,

2542
02:31:26,840 --> 02:31:28,920
Speaker 1: it's just fun. Like at the end of the day,

2543
02:31:29,600 --> 02:31:33,600
Speaker 1: it's just actually really fun and it doesn't feel exactly

2544
02:31:33,680 --> 02:31:35,800
Speaker 1: like the other movies in the series, which is what

2545
02:31:35,920 --> 02:31:37,959
Speaker 1: I want. I don't like reboots. I wasn't a fan

2546
02:31:38,000 --> 02:31:41,800
Speaker 1: of the Star Wars reboot because it was like I've

2547
02:31:41,800 --> 02:31:44,600
Speaker 1: seen this again, Yeah, yeah, I I like I like

2548
02:31:44,760 --> 02:31:46,840
Speaker 1: that it. I like that a lot of the action

2549
02:31:46,920 --> 02:31:48,560
Speaker 1: in this movie, right up until kind of the end

2550
02:31:48,640 --> 02:31:52,200
Speaker 1: feels perfunctory and like I like like kind of saying

2551
02:31:52,240 --> 02:31:54,520
Speaker 1: like I don't care about this part anymore. Like I've

2552
02:31:54,600 --> 02:31:59,200
Speaker 1: done the guy's fighting agents and bullet time. Um that

2553
02:31:59,360 --> 02:32:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, at the end, there's some more some more

2554
02:32:02,440 --> 02:32:05,520
Speaker 1: loving action set pieces, but like from the beginning, it's

2555
02:32:05,640 --> 02:32:08,640
Speaker 1: very much it's much more like a really fun commentary

2556
02:32:08,840 --> 02:32:12,200
Speaker 1: on how Hollywood works and how the video game industry works.

2557
02:32:12,520 --> 02:32:14,960
Speaker 1: There's a fucking mass effect joke in there. There's a

2558
02:32:15,040 --> 02:32:18,200
Speaker 1: joke about like the nineteen nine or two thousand Matrix

2559
02:32:18,320 --> 02:32:21,800
Speaker 1: video game that happened before Garrison was born. It's so fun.

2560
02:32:22,080 --> 02:32:24,199
Speaker 1: It's it's just a lot of fun as a movie.

2561
02:32:26,240 --> 02:32:31,520
Speaker 1: It's frad m well um any any other final final

2562
02:32:31,640 --> 02:32:37,000
Speaker 1: predictions before we wrap up this, this extremely well thought

2563
02:32:37,040 --> 02:32:39,760
Speaker 1: through episode that we've poured our hearts and minds into.

2564
02:32:39,920 --> 02:32:42,080
Speaker 1: We really did. Dr oz is going to go down

2565
02:32:42,160 --> 02:32:46,720
Speaker 1: in flames. Oh I hope so, oh man. I really

2566
02:32:46,760 --> 02:32:49,000
Speaker 1: have no idea what to expect from I have no idea.

2567
02:32:49,040 --> 02:32:51,440
Speaker 1: I'm not making I'm not making any prediction on that

2568
02:32:51,480 --> 02:32:55,120
Speaker 1: because I too have no idea. The only thing that

2569
02:32:55,160 --> 02:32:57,039
Speaker 1: I'll say is that one way or the other, it's

2570
02:32:57,040 --> 02:32:58,720
Speaker 1: going to be a bell weather. If it like goes

2571
02:32:58,800 --> 02:33:00,880
Speaker 1: great for him and he wins easily, we're going to

2572
02:33:01,000 --> 02:33:05,000
Speaker 1: see a lot more like Dr phil is absolutely rolling

2573
02:33:05,120 --> 02:33:09,720
Speaker 1: into Congress. If that works for oz Um and other

2574
02:33:09,920 --> 02:33:13,359
Speaker 1: other people who are kind of occupy similar cultural spaces

2575
02:33:13,440 --> 02:33:16,240
Speaker 1: will do the same thing, and then we'll have congressional

2576
02:33:16,360 --> 02:33:19,800
Speaker 1: inquiries about whether or not this simple trick will burn

2577
02:33:19,879 --> 02:33:25,800
Speaker 1: belly fat. It's if it's like like, if that's what happens,

2578
02:33:25,879 --> 02:33:27,240
Speaker 1: Like the think the thing Trump is going to be

2579
02:33:27,320 --> 02:33:30,440
Speaker 1: remembered for like is being like, well, the thing the

2580
02:33:30,480 --> 02:33:32,400
Speaker 1: thing Reagan is going to be remembered for is being

2581
02:33:32,520 --> 02:33:36,360
Speaker 1: just like like fifty years ahead of his time. Before

2582
02:33:36,480 --> 02:33:39,600
Speaker 1: we're literally all entirely ruled by just reality TV stars.

2583
02:33:40,360 --> 02:33:44,120
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Whose wives are great at giving a head?

2584
02:33:48,040 --> 02:33:50,560
Speaker 1: Should I? Did anyone? Did? Everyone already forget that Nancy

2585
02:33:50,640 --> 02:33:59,920
Speaker 1: Reagan throat goat discourse? Everyone was so exhausted. Yeah, if

2586
02:34:00,040 --> 02:34:03,480
Speaker 1: you didn't catch this, it's a very well known secret

2587
02:34:03,520 --> 02:34:05,840
Speaker 1: and has been for like fifty years. That back before

2588
02:34:05,879 --> 02:34:08,640
Speaker 1: they got married and probably after. Nancy was famous for

2589
02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:13,400
Speaker 1: giving the best blow jobs in Hollywood, as as as

2590
02:34:13,480 --> 02:34:19,480
Speaker 1: Garrison tosses the cat every single episode. So I disdained

2591
02:34:19,560 --> 02:34:28,720
Speaker 1: this discourse. Now, yeah, twy two, it's a year. We're

2592
02:34:28,760 --> 02:34:31,200
Speaker 1: in it. Okay. My last prediction is I actually do

2593
02:34:31,360 --> 02:34:34,960
Speaker 1: think this year is gonna suck slightly less. Did Now

2594
02:34:35,720 --> 02:34:37,360
Speaker 1: this is probably the big one. I'm gonna eat it on,

2595
02:34:37,480 --> 02:34:41,240
Speaker 1: but like, hopefully happen. Hopefully you're right about it. So

2596
02:34:41,760 --> 02:34:45,040
Speaker 1: I'm hoping. Um No, Yeah, I think that there's a

2597
02:34:45,120 --> 02:34:48,800
Speaker 1: decent chance that we're that it's better. Um, it's at

2598
02:34:48,879 --> 02:34:51,400
Speaker 1: least in some ways. The climate stuff, as it nearly

2599
02:34:51,480 --> 02:34:54,440
Speaker 1: always will for the foreseeable future, we'll keep getting worse.

2600
02:34:54,560 --> 02:34:57,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think there's actually a chance that COVID

2601
02:34:57,200 --> 02:35:00,440
Speaker 1: will get better, not because of any policy decision, because

2602
02:35:01,200 --> 02:35:05,199
Speaker 1: macron literally nine of human beings and in the world

2603
02:35:05,280 --> 02:35:09,840
Speaker 1: get it, and those that survive COVID stops passing on

2604
02:35:09,920 --> 02:35:12,760
Speaker 1: as much, which is kind of vaguely speaking what happened

2605
02:35:12,800 --> 02:35:19,440
Speaker 1: with you know, the influenza. I will be probably foolish

2606
02:35:19,520 --> 02:35:22,600
Speaker 1: in making one more prediction. That is, like around the fall,

2607
02:35:23,080 --> 02:35:25,240
Speaker 1: we will not see spikes as big as we saw

2608
02:35:25,360 --> 02:35:28,720
Speaker 1: this last year. Um. I I do think there will

2609
02:35:28,720 --> 02:35:30,760
Speaker 1: probably still be some, but I do think the numbers

2610
02:35:30,800 --> 02:35:34,840
Speaker 1: are going to be generally trending down. Um. Yeah, after

2611
02:35:34,959 --> 02:35:37,040
Speaker 1: O Macron hits its peak, just because how many people

2612
02:35:37,040 --> 02:35:41,440
Speaker 1: will get infected, how many antibodies plus vaccines will be circulating, um,

2613
02:35:41,840 --> 02:35:44,520
Speaker 1: and how many people have already been who don't take

2614
02:35:44,520 --> 02:35:49,240
Speaker 1: the vaccine have will already have like died off. It's

2615
02:35:49,680 --> 02:35:51,520
Speaker 1: I do not say that to be like flip into

2616
02:35:51,640 --> 02:35:56,520
Speaker 1: to be like, but it's like that. It's the world

2617
02:35:56,600 --> 02:36:00,520
Speaker 1: that we live in it um. But I do hope

2618
02:36:00,600 --> 02:36:05,080
Speaker 1: and I do hope and some slightly predict that we'll

2619
02:36:05,120 --> 02:36:09,080
Speaker 1: have less less spiking numbers around this next fall and

2620
02:36:09,160 --> 02:36:11,480
Speaker 1: winter as we did of this current you know falling

2621
02:36:11,520 --> 02:36:15,200
Speaker 1: winter season. I wouldn't mind ending on a note of

2622
02:36:15,240 --> 02:36:18,440
Speaker 1: appreciation for the fucking booster, because we got it. You

2623
02:36:18,520 --> 02:36:20,480
Speaker 1: and I both garrison, as did most of our friends,

2624
02:36:20,600 --> 02:36:25,840
Speaker 1: and had just a shipload of COVID flying around us everywhere.

2625
02:36:25,920 --> 02:36:29,480
Speaker 1: I love a lot of infections, and we were fine. Fine.

2626
02:36:30,400 --> 02:36:34,240
Speaker 1: I have one of my friends got COVID and her mom,

2627
02:36:34,360 --> 02:36:36,760
Speaker 1: who they lived in the same house did not has

2628
02:36:36,840 --> 02:36:39,800
Speaker 1: not gotten COVID because they're wearing masks and they got

2629
02:36:39,840 --> 02:36:43,320
Speaker 1: the booster. And for for all my friends that that

2630
02:36:43,480 --> 02:36:48,680
Speaker 1: did get COVID that had that were boosted, the vaccine

2631
02:36:48,680 --> 02:36:52,039
Speaker 1: didn't shop there. You're not in the hospital. You're double

2632
02:36:52,120 --> 02:36:55,640
Speaker 1: test positive on a rapid test and then test negative

2633
02:36:55,680 --> 02:36:58,520
Speaker 1: on a PCR, probably because by the time he got

2634
02:36:58,560 --> 02:37:01,080
Speaker 1: to the PCR like the next his viral load was

2635
02:37:01,160 --> 02:37:05,360
Speaker 1: just so fucking low. UM, get the third vacs the

2636
02:37:05,440 --> 02:37:08,560
Speaker 1: vaccine works. Who could have predicted? Who could have predicted?

2637
02:37:09,680 --> 02:37:13,240
Speaker 1: The things that are literally the entire basis of our

2638
02:37:13,360 --> 02:37:16,760
Speaker 1: modern concept of the value of human life continue to

2639
02:37:16,800 --> 02:37:21,400
Speaker 1: be very effective. All right? Well, that that does it

2640
02:37:21,520 --> 02:37:27,680
Speaker 1: for us, UM unplugged, Go spend time outside, touch grass,

2641
02:37:28,800 --> 02:37:32,000
Speaker 1: touch your mirror like trying to go through it because

2642
02:37:32,280 --> 02:37:35,400
Speaker 1: trying to go through what's real what's not see if

2643
02:37:35,560 --> 02:37:40,160
Speaker 1: see if Maybe you were the digital Messiah and you

2644
02:37:40,240 --> 02:37:43,080
Speaker 1: have been trapped in a simulation where you work at

2645
02:37:43,080 --> 02:37:46,200
Speaker 1: a food lion, um and and you can break free

2646
02:37:46,240 --> 02:37:50,000
Speaker 1: of it, um, but not fly anymore because now your

2647
02:37:50,040 --> 02:37:52,960
Speaker 1: girlfriends he does he does fly with Trinity at the end,

2648
02:37:53,120 --> 02:37:57,000
Speaker 1: he does fly with Trinity. Sure, just as we all

2649
02:37:57,080 --> 02:38:00,720
Speaker 1: can only fly with of our love well with Carrie

2650
02:38:00,720 --> 02:38:05,120
Speaker 1: Admosson's Yeah, specifically, who has gotten so much hotter as

2651
02:38:05,160 --> 02:38:20,360
Speaker 1: they've made all right, Well, that's that's where we are. Hey, everybody,

2652
02:38:20,480 --> 02:38:23,080
Speaker 1: welcome to it could happen here. I am Robert Evans,

2653
02:38:23,160 --> 02:38:24,760
Speaker 1: and this is the show where we talk about how

2654
02:38:24,840 --> 02:38:26,880
Speaker 1: everything is kind of falling apart and how we might

2655
02:38:26,959 --> 02:38:29,640
Speaker 1: put it back together again in a way that works

2656
02:38:29,720 --> 02:38:33,000
Speaker 1: better than it did before, um, or do something different

2657
02:38:33,160 --> 02:38:36,760
Speaker 1: that is even anyway, whatever, It's a show about the

2658
02:38:36,840 --> 02:38:39,360
Speaker 1: future and about the messed up present um And as

2659
02:38:39,400 --> 02:38:40,800
Speaker 1: a result of that, one of the things we talked

2660
02:38:40,800 --> 02:38:43,440
Speaker 1: about a lot is self sufficiency. We've had a number

2661
02:38:43,440 --> 02:38:46,320
Speaker 1: of episodes kind of covering the values of like replacing

2662
02:38:46,360 --> 02:38:49,400
Speaker 1: your lawn with food, guerilla gardening, that sort of stuff.

2663
02:38:49,440 --> 02:38:51,840
Speaker 1: And one of the critiques we get is people saying, well,

2664
02:38:51,879 --> 02:38:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, that's never gonna work on a large scale,

2665
02:38:54,200 --> 02:38:57,440
Speaker 1: it's never going to replace industrial agriculture or whatever. And

2666
02:38:57,920 --> 02:39:01,320
Speaker 1: that's perfectly true. But the point we're going for here,

2667
02:39:01,360 --> 02:39:04,680
Speaker 1: and why we encourage these kind of resilience building activities

2668
02:39:04,800 --> 02:39:07,920
Speaker 1: is because they do improve the ability of communities to

2669
02:39:08,000 --> 02:39:11,359
Speaker 1: resist when they need to resist, and also provide opportunities

2670
02:39:11,680 --> 02:39:15,039
Speaker 1: by which people can reimagine their relationship to, for example,

2671
02:39:15,120 --> 02:39:17,840
Speaker 1: the food supply chain, or reimagine the relationship to their

2672
02:39:17,840 --> 02:39:20,480
Speaker 1: community and the kind of things that communities provide for

2673
02:39:20,600 --> 02:39:24,400
Speaker 1: each other rather than having them shipped in by Amazon. Um.

2674
02:39:24,720 --> 02:39:26,920
Speaker 1: And when we start talking about that, and we start

2675
02:39:26,959 --> 02:39:30,800
Speaker 1: talking about improving community resiliency for things like, you know,

2676
02:39:31,080 --> 02:39:35,240
Speaker 1: a general strike or even potentially more radical stuff, one

2677
02:39:35,360 --> 02:39:37,879
Speaker 1: of the big issues that any community has to con

2678
02:39:37,959 --> 02:39:40,840
Speaker 1: front is not just food but medicine. I'm I do,

2679
02:39:41,000 --> 02:39:42,720
Speaker 1: and I'm sure a lot of other people have friends

2680
02:39:42,879 --> 02:39:48,000
Speaker 1: who cannot survive without medications that are very like reliant

2681
02:39:48,160 --> 02:39:52,280
Speaker 1: upon existing supply chains um, and to some extent, even

2682
02:39:52,320 --> 02:39:55,600
Speaker 1: the stability of the government, you know, um, getting your insulin,

2683
02:39:55,760 --> 02:39:59,640
Speaker 1: getting your medication for whatever, kind of disease you have

2684
02:40:00,160 --> 02:40:02,520
Speaker 1: that needs constant medication. There's a bunch of different reasons

2685
02:40:02,800 --> 02:40:06,480
Speaker 1: why people are reliant upon the medical um supply lines

2686
02:40:06,560 --> 02:40:09,520
Speaker 1: and upon the kind of pharmaceutical industry. And that's one

2687
02:40:09,560 --> 02:40:12,440
Speaker 1: of the big when we talk about building more resilient communities,

2688
02:40:12,440 --> 02:40:14,880
Speaker 1: one of the big hurdles to jump. Well. Today, my

2689
02:40:15,040 --> 02:40:19,160
Speaker 1: guest is someone who is working on bridging some of

2690
02:40:19,200 --> 02:40:22,240
Speaker 1: these problems. UM. His name is Michael Lawfer, and he

2691
02:40:22,520 --> 02:40:25,240
Speaker 1: is the founder of an organization called the Four Thieves

2692
02:40:25,440 --> 02:40:29,640
Speaker 1: Vinegar Collective. They are bio hackers, UM, and they are

2693
02:40:29,760 --> 02:40:35,760
Speaker 1: working on cracking certain pharmaceutical medications to allow individuals with

2694
02:40:36,480 --> 02:40:40,080
Speaker 1: resources that are generally available to people who are not

2695
02:40:40,360 --> 02:40:45,880
Speaker 1: rich or pharmaceutical companies UM, to produce life saving medications. UM.

2696
02:40:46,360 --> 02:40:48,400
Speaker 1: The number one thing you would have heard of from

2697
02:40:48,480 --> 02:40:51,360
Speaker 1: Four Thieves is the EPI pencil, which we'll talk about

2698
02:40:51,400 --> 02:40:53,440
Speaker 1: in a bit. But first, Michael, thank you for coming

2699
02:40:53,480 --> 02:40:55,680
Speaker 1: on the show. Thanks so much for having me. It's

2700
02:40:55,760 --> 02:40:58,920
Speaker 1: exciting to be able to shot and talk with you

2701
02:40:59,080 --> 02:41:02,200
Speaker 1: and all the people surrounding you who are trying to

2702
02:41:03,440 --> 02:41:07,400
Speaker 1: just unfunned things a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, and I

2703
02:41:08,200 --> 02:41:10,480
Speaker 1: most of the conversation I want to have today is

2704
02:41:10,560 --> 02:41:13,879
Speaker 1: on the unfucking of things variety. But I do think

2705
02:41:13,920 --> 02:41:16,320
Speaker 1: we should start with a little bit of technical talk first.

2706
02:41:16,879 --> 02:41:19,720
Speaker 1: Can you give people an idea of what kind of

2707
02:41:19,800 --> 02:41:23,040
Speaker 1: medications you and other people in the collective have figured

2708
02:41:23,040 --> 02:41:26,920
Speaker 1: out how to produce um and what kind of resources

2709
02:41:26,959 --> 02:41:29,200
Speaker 1: and individual needs to be able to do some of

2710
02:41:29,280 --> 02:41:34,440
Speaker 1: this stuff. Sure, so from a technical perspective, most of

2711
02:41:34,520 --> 02:41:37,120
Speaker 1: the things that we focus on are what's called small

2712
02:41:37,160 --> 02:41:43,640
Speaker 1: molecule chemistry, And to kind of describe that blanketly, if

2713
02:41:43,720 --> 02:41:46,160
Speaker 1: you can draw the molecule on a cocktail napkin, it

2714
02:41:46,240 --> 02:41:49,160
Speaker 1: probably qualifies as a small molecule if it's one of

2715
02:41:49,240 --> 02:41:51,520
Speaker 1: these things that like, you know, if you look at

2716
02:41:51,560 --> 02:41:54,440
Speaker 1: the diagram for the molecules approaching, it's got being ribbons

2717
02:41:54,480 --> 02:41:57,440
Speaker 1: that are colored and stuff that's a that's a biochem thing,

2718
02:41:57,440 --> 02:42:01,080
Speaker 1: and it's a whole different set of problems. Now, the

2719
02:42:02,800 --> 02:42:11,959
Speaker 1: mean focide that we've had have been surrounding access to abortion,

2720
02:42:12,640 --> 02:42:19,440
Speaker 1: access to HIV medications, access to hepatitis C medications, and

2721
02:42:19,920 --> 02:42:23,680
Speaker 1: access to reversal of drug overdose medications. So that's been

2722
02:42:23,760 --> 02:42:25,920
Speaker 1: sort of our main focus, but there's been a handful

2723
02:42:25,959 --> 02:42:28,240
Speaker 1: of others. The things that we tend to look for

2724
02:42:28,560 --> 02:42:33,400
Speaker 1: our where are there things that there's a great need

2725
02:42:33,959 --> 02:42:37,280
Speaker 1: and there's a huge barrier, And so you see those

2726
02:42:37,760 --> 02:42:42,000
Speaker 1: in those places a lot, because the three main barriers

2727
02:42:42,080 --> 02:42:45,560
Speaker 1: that tend to pop up between somebody and access to

2728
02:42:45,560 --> 02:42:50,440
Speaker 1: the medication they need are either price or legality, or

2729
02:42:50,520 --> 02:42:56,320
Speaker 1: lack of infrastructure. And typically the weirdness that comes up

2730
02:42:57,760 --> 02:43:05,839
Speaker 1: mostly surrounds price because of intellectual property laws and marginalization

2731
02:43:06,240 --> 02:43:10,840
Speaker 1: of people who suffer from particular ailments or seem to

2732
02:43:10,920 --> 02:43:15,280
Speaker 1: suffer predominantly from particular ailments. And so if you're if

2733
02:43:15,320 --> 02:43:17,640
Speaker 1: you're poor, and you're in a class of people that

2734
02:43:18,560 --> 02:43:20,720
Speaker 1: is seen as something not to be cared about because

2735
02:43:20,800 --> 02:43:26,920
Speaker 1: they're not a strong voter base, then the ability to

2736
02:43:27,160 --> 02:43:31,640
Speaker 1: move access away from those people and put in more

2737
02:43:31,800 --> 02:43:39,160
Speaker 1: barriers and raise prices becomes easier to defend um. So

2738
02:43:40,200 --> 02:43:47,280
Speaker 1: the first drug that we focused on was a an

2739
02:43:47,480 --> 02:43:58,160
Speaker 1: anti parasitic um. Toxoplasmosis is a parasite that's pretty innocuous

2740
02:43:58,440 --> 02:44:01,560
Speaker 1: for most people. Anbody when you get from cats, right

2741
02:44:01,640 --> 02:44:03,920
Speaker 1: or is this not Gandhi? It is? It is the

2742
02:44:03,959 --> 02:44:05,840
Speaker 1: one you get from cats, and it's a really fascinating

2743
02:44:05,920 --> 02:44:08,720
Speaker 1: parasite too, if if if you ever dig into the

2744
02:44:09,000 --> 02:44:12,320
Speaker 1: behavioral biology of it, it's really really fascinating parasite. Um,

2745
02:44:12,440 --> 02:44:15,400
Speaker 1: I probably have it. Yeah, I have three cats. I

2746
02:44:15,520 --> 02:44:19,520
Speaker 1: definitely have it, right, So and so it's not a

2747
02:44:19,560 --> 02:44:21,920
Speaker 1: big deal for those people. But if you have a

2748
02:44:22,000 --> 02:44:25,240
Speaker 1: massively compromised immune system, especially with people with HIV or

2749
02:44:25,240 --> 02:44:28,040
Speaker 1: advanced stages of cancer, and that's why it was labeled

2750
02:44:28,080 --> 02:44:31,120
Speaker 1: sort of you know, HIV drug, it's not it's a

2751
02:44:31,200 --> 02:44:34,440
Speaker 1: it's an anti parasitic, but it's used almost exclusively by

2752
02:44:34,720 --> 02:44:39,680
Speaker 1: people who are an advanced stages of cancer. Uh, people

2753
02:44:39,720 --> 02:44:43,280
Speaker 1: with fairly compromised immune systems from HIV or something else,

2754
02:44:43,440 --> 02:44:46,879
Speaker 1: and then pregnant women. Um. And it's not that big deal.

2755
02:44:47,959 --> 02:44:52,199
Speaker 1: If you have access to the medication, you can merely

2756
02:44:52,240 --> 02:44:56,720
Speaker 1: take it and eradicates from body. The difference was, is

2757
02:44:56,800 --> 02:44:58,960
Speaker 1: that something that was a short course of treatment. You

2758
02:44:59,120 --> 02:45:05,360
Speaker 1: take I think four um, yeah, four doses the first

2759
02:45:05,400 --> 02:45:10,920
Speaker 1: time around, and then one dose each day subsequently for

2760
02:45:11,040 --> 02:45:13,600
Speaker 1: something like ten days. Um And that's not a big

2761
02:45:13,680 --> 02:45:15,960
Speaker 1: deal when each dose, each pill was about thirteen and

2762
02:45:15,959 --> 02:45:18,520
Speaker 1: a half dollars. And then Martin cruently jacked up the

2763
02:45:18,560 --> 02:45:23,600
Speaker 1: price to seven fifty a pill, and so we're like, well,

2764
02:45:23,640 --> 02:45:25,720
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous. So that was the first one that

2765
02:45:25,760 --> 02:45:29,800
Speaker 1: we went after. Then of course access to abortion drugs, um,

2766
02:45:30,000 --> 02:45:33,600
Speaker 1: that's a big one. That's pretty topical. Lately we released

2767
02:45:33,600 --> 02:45:36,160
Speaker 1: a video I don't know, maybe three months ago on

2768
02:45:36,240 --> 02:45:37,920
Speaker 1: how you can make your own abortion pills without too

2769
02:45:38,000 --> 02:45:42,600
Speaker 1: much fuss. This would be Preston right, uh, Mytho, pristone

2770
02:45:42,720 --> 02:45:46,400
Speaker 1: and Mr Cristall. So you can do it with just

2771
02:45:47,520 --> 02:45:50,960
Speaker 1: Mr Purstall, or you can do it in combination, and

2772
02:45:52,080 --> 02:45:55,959
Speaker 1: when you do it with just the one with just Miso,

2773
02:45:56,920 --> 02:45:59,640
Speaker 1: you have about an eighty five percent chance of it

2774
02:45:59,760 --> 02:46:02,920
Speaker 1: wor king and if you have both the bumps it

2775
02:46:03,000 --> 02:46:06,119
Speaker 1: up to about and what is the like what when

2776
02:46:06,160 --> 02:46:07,600
Speaker 1: you're doing this? And we'll talk a little bit with

2777
02:46:07,720 --> 02:46:10,000
Speaker 1: the hardware, but like what is the re agent that

2778
02:46:10,200 --> 02:46:12,000
Speaker 1: you have for this? Because I know that's been a

2779
02:46:12,040 --> 02:46:13,800
Speaker 1: big part of some of the discussions is like how

2780
02:46:13,840 --> 02:46:16,240
Speaker 1: do you get the things you make the medicines from?

2781
02:46:16,280 --> 02:46:19,400
Speaker 1: Which is easier for some than it is for others. Sure,

2782
02:46:19,600 --> 02:46:22,080
Speaker 1: there are a couple different ways that you google about that.

2783
02:46:22,840 --> 02:46:26,560
Speaker 1: The the interesting but more difficult way, of course, is

2784
02:46:26,600 --> 02:46:30,080
Speaker 1: to do the chemistry from scratch, where like you say,

2785
02:46:30,160 --> 02:46:33,480
Speaker 1: you get access to the agents, you do some chemistry,

2786
02:46:33,520 --> 02:46:38,240
Speaker 1: and you end up with the active pharmaceutical ingredient, which

2787
02:46:38,320 --> 02:46:40,320
Speaker 1: we lovingly referred to as the A p I, and

2788
02:46:40,400 --> 02:46:43,240
Speaker 1: then you package it somehow into a tablet or a

2789
02:46:43,320 --> 02:46:52,960
Speaker 1: pill or or some other means of ingress into the body. Um.

2790
02:46:53,520 --> 02:47:00,600
Speaker 1: The instructions that we distributed skip the difficult part because

2791
02:47:02,040 --> 02:47:09,960
Speaker 1: mr Pristal is an ulcer medication, and so, for instance,

2792
02:47:10,000 --> 02:47:14,080
Speaker 1: if you have access to Mexico or are in Mexico,

2793
02:47:14,280 --> 02:47:16,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of not a big deal because as an

2794
02:47:16,640 --> 02:47:19,360
Speaker 1: ulcer medication, it's over the counter and you can just

2795
02:47:19,480 --> 02:47:23,640
Speaker 1: go in and say, oh, you know, my grandmother can't

2796
02:47:23,640 --> 02:47:26,080
Speaker 1: get out of bed, she needs this ulcer medication. I

2797
02:47:26,160 --> 02:47:27,920
Speaker 1: need just a little bit of it to get her

2798
02:47:27,959 --> 02:47:32,360
Speaker 1: through the weekend. Um, and then no problem. Uh. Not

2799
02:47:32,560 --> 02:47:35,760
Speaker 1: so easy in places where it's a little more controlled

2800
02:47:35,800 --> 02:47:42,200
Speaker 1: like the US. However, one amazing trick when looking for

2801
02:47:44,560 --> 02:47:51,400
Speaker 1: medicines access to medicines that are generally blocked from people

2802
02:47:51,560 --> 02:47:58,480
Speaker 1: that the existing power structure tries to disenfranchise from access

2803
02:47:58,959 --> 02:48:02,440
Speaker 1: is you look and see if it's similarly used for

2804
02:48:02,840 --> 02:48:07,880
Speaker 1: other classes of person or being that the infrastructure does

2805
02:48:07,959 --> 02:48:13,240
Speaker 1: care about. So interestingly, you look for ulcer medications, you say, well, like, well,

2806
02:48:13,280 --> 02:48:16,520
Speaker 1: who else has ulcers that you know, people might think

2807
02:48:16,640 --> 02:48:19,640
Speaker 1: are important people. That doesn't really come up, And there

2808
02:48:19,680 --> 02:48:22,400
Speaker 1: are other ulcer medications are a little bit better. However,

2809
02:48:23,440 --> 02:48:24,920
Speaker 1: there are a lot of really wealthy people in the

2810
02:48:25,000 --> 02:48:28,320
Speaker 1: United States, and really wealthy people tend to keep horses,

2811
02:48:29,959 --> 02:48:37,480
Speaker 1: and horses interestingly um nine or something or maybe more,

2812
02:48:38,520 --> 02:48:45,720
Speaker 1: some ungodly percentage of domesticated horses have ulcers. Um. Now

2813
02:48:46,000 --> 02:48:50,400
Speaker 1: why that is, I'm not entirely clear about. But my

2814
02:48:50,560 --> 02:48:52,640
Speaker 1: own theory is that it has something to do with

2815
02:48:52,800 --> 02:48:55,600
Speaker 1: taking a gigantic wild animal and putting it into a

2816
02:48:55,720 --> 02:48:58,280
Speaker 1: very small box for most of its life. Yeah, it

2817
02:48:58,360 --> 02:49:02,720
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like the thing that horses evolved to do. Yeah. So,

2818
02:49:03,879 --> 02:49:08,120
Speaker 1: so that said, people who are horse owners typically have

2819
02:49:08,280 --> 02:49:11,480
Speaker 1: to treat them constantly for ulcers. And the best thing

2820
02:49:11,720 --> 02:49:15,200
Speaker 1: for that is Mr Cristall And so you can get

2821
02:49:16,560 --> 02:49:22,000
Speaker 1: Mr Crystal powder in a tub from places that, yeah,

2822
02:49:22,120 --> 02:49:24,360
Speaker 1: feedstore or something. Yeah, I go to a feed store

2823
02:49:24,400 --> 02:49:26,480
Speaker 1: every week. I'm sure I could buy a bucket of

2824
02:49:26,560 --> 02:49:29,880
Speaker 1: this ship probably, so it comes in tubs and the

2825
02:49:29,959 --> 02:49:31,800
Speaker 1: other thing that's great about it coming in a tub

2826
02:49:32,000 --> 02:49:35,720
Speaker 1: is that it's already in with a buffer. Part of

2827
02:49:35,760 --> 02:49:40,119
Speaker 1: the thing about Mr. Crystall is that the dosages in micrograms,

2828
02:49:40,160 --> 02:49:42,000
Speaker 1: and that's very hard to weigh unless you have a

2829
02:49:42,080 --> 02:49:46,160
Speaker 1: really high precision scale. Even your good drug dealers generally

2830
02:49:46,200 --> 02:49:49,800
Speaker 1: don't have a scale that can do that. Right. So,

2831
02:49:50,400 --> 02:49:52,440
Speaker 1: but the magic is this isn't a tub with a

2832
02:49:52,600 --> 02:49:56,840
Speaker 1: bunch of inert powder, and it's it's already mixed up

2833
02:49:56,959 --> 02:49:59,480
Speaker 1: to be homogeneous. And so what you can do is

2834
02:49:59,520 --> 02:50:01,280
Speaker 1: you can do a bit of back of the envelope

2835
02:50:02,040 --> 02:50:06,360
Speaker 1: arithmetic and you can measure out much larger quantities and

2836
02:50:06,520 --> 02:50:09,960
Speaker 1: know how much active ingredients you have and then pack

2837
02:50:10,080 --> 02:50:16,560
Speaker 1: that into a tablet. Now yeah, um, I mean that

2838
02:50:16,680 --> 02:50:20,000
Speaker 1: makes so much sense. And it's also like like the

2839
02:50:21,600 --> 02:50:23,800
Speaker 1: you have kind of the dark side and light side version.

2840
02:50:23,840 --> 02:50:25,520
Speaker 1: It's kind of the light side version of all of

2841
02:50:25,600 --> 02:50:29,440
Speaker 1: those people buying up ivermectin for for nonsense. It's like, well, no,

2842
02:50:29,760 --> 02:50:36,080
Speaker 1: there's reasons to buy you know, like uh, livestock medication especially. Um.

2843
02:50:36,640 --> 02:50:38,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I have a lot of friends who took

2844
02:50:38,560 --> 02:50:40,720
Speaker 1: fishing antibiotics back in the day, and this is kind

2845
02:50:40,720 --> 02:50:43,879
Speaker 1: of a much more um using it in a much

2846
02:50:43,920 --> 02:50:48,119
Speaker 1: more rigorous way to provide people with something that can

2847
02:50:48,520 --> 02:50:51,480
Speaker 1: is getting it will be getting increasingly difficult to access

2848
02:50:51,600 --> 02:50:54,039
Speaker 1: in a lot of parts of the country. Yeah, it's

2849
02:50:54,080 --> 02:50:56,960
Speaker 1: just such a smart way of approaching it, I think. Yeah.

2850
02:50:56,959 --> 02:51:00,600
Speaker 1: And one of the things that becomes philosophic quickly a

2851
02:51:00,720 --> 02:51:07,400
Speaker 1: bit sticky is when you end up talking about the

2852
02:51:07,520 --> 02:51:14,600
Speaker 1: importance of independent management of one's own health and decision

2853
02:51:14,680 --> 02:51:18,880
Speaker 1: making not coming from above. There's this difficult moment that

2854
02:51:19,080 --> 02:51:23,040
Speaker 1: I've had kind of having to cop to the reality

2855
02:51:23,480 --> 02:51:28,280
Speaker 1: that if you're building mechanisms to empower people to have

2856
02:51:28,760 --> 02:51:33,240
Speaker 1: access to make decisions about managing their own health. H

2857
02:51:34,040 --> 02:51:41,040
Speaker 1: part of that entails realizing that that will also lead

2858
02:51:41,080 --> 02:51:45,600
Speaker 1: to a lot of people making what I might think

2859
02:51:45,640 --> 02:51:49,920
Speaker 1: are bad decisions, but that the important thing is that

2860
02:51:50,040 --> 02:51:53,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what I think. That people should not

2861
02:51:53,520 --> 02:51:56,400
Speaker 1: be controlled by other people, and if they make bad decisions,

2862
02:51:56,520 --> 02:51:59,800
Speaker 1: that sucks, and hopefully we can help that. But not

2863
02:52:00,840 --> 02:52:09,800
Speaker 1: not lamenting the importance of or not not backtracking, not

2864
02:52:10,000 --> 02:52:16,400
Speaker 1: having some sort of retrograde Yeah, about offering more access

2865
02:52:16,520 --> 02:52:22,600
Speaker 1: even if people misuse that access to the miss manage

2866
02:52:22,680 --> 02:52:27,360
Speaker 1: their own health. Mismanagement of health happens no matter what right.

2867
02:52:27,520 --> 02:52:31,280
Speaker 1: It happens constantly, and people will ignore things that seem

2868
02:52:31,360 --> 02:52:34,280
Speaker 1: like they're bigger problems and don't get them addressed. And

2869
02:52:34,400 --> 02:52:37,279
Speaker 1: so I have to sort of retreat into this idea

2870
02:52:37,360 --> 02:52:41,520
Speaker 1: that more access to more tools is better and that's

2871
02:52:41,560 --> 02:52:44,440
Speaker 1: just the way of it. And yeah, the problem, yeah,

2872
02:52:45,000 --> 02:52:47,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the problem with ivermectin isn't the problem. The

2873
02:52:47,200 --> 02:52:49,640
Speaker 1: problem is that that people have access to ivermectin and

2874
02:52:49,760 --> 02:52:51,600
Speaker 1: so they're taking it in a way that is harmful

2875
02:52:51,680 --> 02:52:53,800
Speaker 1: to them. The problem is that people have been have

2876
02:52:54,520 --> 02:52:58,080
Speaker 1: have been blinded by disinformation and so are making a

2877
02:52:58,120 --> 02:53:01,040
Speaker 1: horrible health care decision. And the fact that they have

2878
02:53:01,240 --> 02:53:05,400
Speaker 1: it's possessed to veterinary medication is fine, right, exactly. And

2879
02:53:05,600 --> 02:53:07,680
Speaker 1: and it's and it's interesting that you say that because

2880
02:53:07,879 --> 02:53:10,240
Speaker 1: I have a friend of Doctors Without Borders and they

2881
02:53:10,280 --> 02:53:14,959
Speaker 1: are starting a couple of pretty strong programs to try

2882
02:53:15,000 --> 02:53:22,600
Speaker 1: and combat misinformation because just from a metric standpoint, they

2883
02:53:22,800 --> 02:53:25,160
Speaker 1: look for sort of like what's killing the greatest number

2884
02:53:25,200 --> 02:53:27,680
Speaker 1: of people at the greatest rate in the worst way,

2885
02:53:28,400 --> 02:53:30,600
Speaker 1: and currently the thing that's killing the most people in

2886
02:53:30,720 --> 02:53:33,199
Speaker 1: the worst way at the greatest rate is a misinformation

2887
02:53:34,840 --> 02:53:38,760
Speaker 1: and so yeah, that's that's really the great danger. And

2888
02:53:39,560 --> 02:53:42,160
Speaker 1: one of the things I found really interesting about kind

2889
02:53:42,160 --> 02:53:44,120
Speaker 1: of what you all have been doing because obviously the

2890
02:53:44,200 --> 02:53:46,560
Speaker 1: question of how to fight the misinformation in the medical

2891
02:53:46,600 --> 02:53:50,080
Speaker 1: sphere is a much larger conversation without simple answers. When

2892
02:53:50,160 --> 02:53:52,640
Speaker 1: it comes to a question like, oh, hey, this pharmaceutical

2893
02:53:52,720 --> 02:53:55,800
Speaker 1: company jacked up the price by what set for this

2894
02:53:55,920 --> 02:53:58,640
Speaker 1: necessary medication for people a lot of people who have

2895
02:53:58,840 --> 02:54:02,720
Speaker 1: HIV um. What are we The solution to that is simple,

2896
02:54:02,760 --> 02:54:04,199
Speaker 1: you find a way for them to get it without

2897
02:54:04,240 --> 02:54:08,279
Speaker 1: paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars per dose um. The question.

2898
02:54:08,800 --> 02:54:11,360
Speaker 1: Some of the work you all have done is with

2899
02:54:11,560 --> 02:54:16,160
Speaker 1: very uh mass needed products like the methopristone, like the

2900
02:54:16,200 --> 02:54:19,200
Speaker 1: epipencil um, where there's large numbers of people who need it.

2901
02:54:19,240 --> 02:54:20,440
Speaker 1: But a lot of what I think, one of the

2902
02:54:20,440 --> 02:54:22,160
Speaker 1: things I think is really cool is y'all are also

2903
02:54:22,240 --> 02:54:26,400
Speaker 1: working on hacking medications that are very niche like, very

2904
02:54:26,480 --> 02:54:29,760
Speaker 1: very few people have this particular disease, and so the

2905
02:54:29,879 --> 02:54:34,480
Speaker 1: medication is costs as much as the fully loaded Toyota tacoma,

2906
02:54:34,640 --> 02:54:37,480
Speaker 1: you know, in order to sometimes far worse than that.

2907
02:54:37,879 --> 02:54:41,320
Speaker 1: Because of this Orphan Drug Act that got past in

2908
02:54:41,360 --> 02:54:45,520
Speaker 1: the US and equivalence that exists in other places. You

2909
02:54:45,680 --> 02:54:51,120
Speaker 1: have all of these allowances that are granted to people

2910
02:54:51,320 --> 02:54:56,640
Speaker 1: who invent I put in air quotes because really they

2911
02:54:56,760 --> 02:55:02,400
Speaker 1: just purchase the rights to it. Uh, these these orphan

2912
02:55:02,520 --> 02:55:09,200
Speaker 1: drugs where when you talk about controls, it's kind of

2913
02:55:09,879 --> 02:55:16,199
Speaker 1: the most tragic incidents of that entirely because what's happening

2914
02:55:16,280 --> 02:55:18,520
Speaker 1: is you've got somebody who has a very rare disease,

2915
02:55:19,280 --> 02:55:24,199
Speaker 1: and in many cases you have something that's the difference

2916
02:55:24,240 --> 02:55:28,320
Speaker 1: between somebody who just cannot function and they're dealing with

2917
02:55:28,440 --> 02:55:31,960
Speaker 1: their life kind of moment to moment. They're they're mostly

2918
02:55:32,080 --> 02:55:37,359
Speaker 1: cared for, and if they have access to a particular medication,

2919
02:55:37,440 --> 02:55:40,320
Speaker 1: then they can go through life in a fairly normal

2920
02:55:40,480 --> 02:55:43,080
Speaker 1: sort of way where they don't need to be an

2921
02:55:43,120 --> 02:55:46,880
Speaker 1: assisted living, where they can do sort of basic things

2922
02:55:46,959 --> 02:55:52,920
Speaker 1: for themselves, and that that seems so much more predatory.

2923
02:55:53,920 --> 02:55:55,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's important, of course, you know, to look

2924
02:55:55,879 --> 02:55:58,680
Speaker 1: at things with that macro lens as well and say

2925
02:55:58,720 --> 02:56:00,400
Speaker 1: what can what can do a lot good for a

2926
02:56:00,480 --> 02:56:04,800
Speaker 1: lot of people, But then the sort of micro ethical

2927
02:56:04,959 --> 02:56:07,640
Speaker 1: lens needs to come out from time to time and say,

2928
02:56:07,720 --> 02:56:10,920
Speaker 1: all right, well, here's something that only affects a few

2929
02:56:11,000 --> 02:56:14,920
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people across the world. But these are people

2930
02:56:14,959 --> 02:56:19,520
Speaker 1: who could just go through life normally if only they

2931
02:56:19,600 --> 02:56:23,280
Speaker 1: had access to a little bit of medicine. And the

2932
02:56:23,360 --> 02:56:28,000
Speaker 1: only reason they don't is because of misplaced average or

2933
02:56:28,959 --> 02:56:33,760
Speaker 1: all averice is misplaced because yeah, and you're you're you're

2934
02:56:33,800 --> 02:56:38,080
Speaker 1: providing individuals or a way for people to help individuals

2935
02:56:38,160 --> 02:56:40,840
Speaker 1: who have this problem and who can't couldn't possibly afford

2936
02:56:40,879 --> 02:56:42,520
Speaker 1: this because they don't have health care or something a

2937
02:56:42,560 --> 02:56:47,440
Speaker 1: way to deal with these illnesses. Um and often times,

2938
02:56:47,600 --> 02:56:52,160
Speaker 1: like even even people who are ensured get the medication

2939
02:56:52,200 --> 02:56:55,279
Speaker 1: that they need or don't get an affordable rate because

2940
02:56:56,080 --> 02:56:59,680
Speaker 1: it's not seen as critical. It's like, oh, well there's

2941
02:56:59,720 --> 02:57:02,120
Speaker 1: a there's a solution that's not as good, but it's

2942
02:57:02,200 --> 02:57:04,200
Speaker 1: much less expensive. So that's the only thing we're going

2943
02:57:04,240 --> 02:57:07,560
Speaker 1: to cover. And so yeah, and you're saying, well, it

2944
02:57:07,600 --> 02:57:10,760
Speaker 1: should be your decision whether or not this is something

2945
02:57:10,840 --> 02:57:13,640
Speaker 1: you want to treat this way, and we're this is

2946
02:57:13,680 --> 02:57:17,160
Speaker 1: a way if you you know, have access, this is

2947
02:57:17,200 --> 02:57:19,240
Speaker 1: a way for you to kind of as you've been saying,

2948
02:57:19,280 --> 02:57:23,280
Speaker 1: like take your health care and your ability to get

2949
02:57:23,360 --> 02:57:26,160
Speaker 1: medication into your own hands and produce the things that

2950
02:57:26,280 --> 02:57:29,880
Speaker 1: you need without needing to beg an insurance company or

2951
02:57:30,280 --> 02:57:34,200
Speaker 1: go fund me eight dollars or whatever. Yeah. Those go

2952
02:57:34,360 --> 02:57:37,440
Speaker 1: fund me break my heart so much. Yeah. It's especially

2953
02:57:37,480 --> 02:57:40,000
Speaker 1: when people say, oh, look, how great somebody got the

2954
02:57:40,040 --> 02:57:43,200
Speaker 1: money that they needed, and I say, look, I am

2955
02:57:43,280 --> 02:57:49,160
Speaker 1: happy that people get healthcare, but this should be entirely unnecessary,

2956
02:57:49,640 --> 02:57:52,840
Speaker 1: and the fact that this comes up is criminal. Yeah

2957
02:57:52,959 --> 02:57:55,520
Speaker 1: we can. We can as a species produce this ship

2958
02:57:55,760 --> 02:57:59,280
Speaker 1: for less than the cost of like a lamp, you know,

2959
02:57:59,640 --> 02:58:03,680
Speaker 1: Like why why don't why isn't this available? Um now?

2960
02:58:03,920 --> 02:58:06,400
Speaker 1: I And that's what I think is kind of so

2961
02:58:06,520 --> 02:58:11,280
Speaker 1: powerful about what y'all are doing, And is that so

2962
02:58:11,680 --> 02:58:13,480
Speaker 1: so often we kind of get stuck in this like

2963
02:58:13,680 --> 02:58:16,000
Speaker 1: the horror of how bad health care is, of how

2964
02:58:16,040 --> 02:58:18,680
Speaker 1: fund up the pharmaceutical industry is, and then we get

2965
02:58:18,720 --> 02:58:20,720
Speaker 1: our relief from that in these stories of people like

2966
02:58:20,800 --> 02:58:24,040
Speaker 1: crowdfunding so they can get their medication. And what you're

2967
02:58:24,040 --> 02:58:27,120
Speaker 1: saying is, well, what's actually much more inspiring than that

2968
02:58:27,400 --> 02:58:31,039
Speaker 1: is people just making finding ways to make what they need. Um. Again,

2969
02:58:31,200 --> 02:58:33,600
Speaker 1: kind of the most popular popular is the wrong word.

2970
02:58:33,879 --> 02:58:36,200
Speaker 1: The most press y'all have received, I think is for

2971
02:58:36,280 --> 02:58:39,880
Speaker 1: the epipencil, which is an EpiPen is a device that

2972
02:58:40,080 --> 02:58:42,400
Speaker 1: you take that is used when people are going into

2973
02:58:42,440 --> 02:58:44,920
Speaker 1: anaphylactic shock, which is when they have an allergic reaction

2974
02:58:45,000 --> 02:58:48,520
Speaker 1: that will kill them if untreated. Generally, UM and it

2975
02:58:48,800 --> 02:58:52,840
Speaker 1: you injected into your muscles or generally, like an EpiPen

2976
02:58:52,959 --> 02:58:54,960
Speaker 1: does the injecting, you just kind of put it in place.

2977
02:58:55,760 --> 02:58:58,320
Speaker 1: Um and it. It is a life saving medication when

2978
02:58:58,360 --> 02:59:01,040
Speaker 1: people need it. It's the true between that and death.

2979
02:59:01,240 --> 02:59:03,640
Speaker 1: UM and they are very expensive. There is a company

2980
02:59:04,040 --> 02:59:06,760
Speaker 1: that owns the patent because of how the EpiPen actually

2981
02:59:06,840 --> 02:59:10,200
Speaker 1: does the injecting. The actual medicine is very cheap and

2982
02:59:10,360 --> 02:59:13,199
Speaker 1: very easy to make, but it's unbelievably expensive, and people

2983
02:59:13,240 --> 02:59:16,000
Speaker 1: die as a result of lack lack of access. UM

2984
02:59:16,720 --> 02:59:19,480
Speaker 1: and you've provided a way using both kinds of this

2985
02:59:19,560 --> 02:59:22,560
Speaker 1: thing called a bio lab that people You've developed plans

2986
02:59:22,640 --> 02:59:24,640
Speaker 1: that people can build it for themselves in order to

2987
02:59:25,200 --> 02:59:27,200
Speaker 1: make this and also using a three D printer, you

2988
02:59:27,240 --> 02:59:30,960
Speaker 1: can make UM an epipencil, which is a little less

2989
02:59:31,240 --> 02:59:33,320
Speaker 1: kind of a more analog version. I think I guess

2990
02:59:33,360 --> 02:59:36,760
Speaker 1: you'd say, uh, no, it's it's it's equivalent. It's equivalent.

2991
02:59:36,800 --> 02:59:38,959
Speaker 1: It works the same way. The things that are different

2992
02:59:39,040 --> 02:59:43,800
Speaker 1: about it that are critical. The first one that you mentioned,

2993
02:59:43,840 --> 02:59:45,960
Speaker 1: of course, is that you can you can build it

2994
02:59:46,120 --> 02:59:50,920
Speaker 1: for all over thirty dollars US, and you can reload

2995
02:59:51,000 --> 02:59:55,600
Speaker 1: it for about three dollars, unlike the EpiPen, which is

2996
02:59:56,720 --> 03:00:02,000
Speaker 1: I think it's about fifty dollars for yeah. Um, and

2997
03:00:02,200 --> 03:00:05,560
Speaker 1: that might be for a pair, but even so. Um.

2998
03:00:06,920 --> 03:00:13,840
Speaker 1: But the other two critical differences are that EpiPens are

2999
03:00:13,920 --> 03:00:20,880
Speaker 1: single use, so you can't test whether it's faulty or

3000
03:00:20,959 --> 03:00:26,040
Speaker 1: not until you use it. Yeah. And there have been

3001
03:00:26,040 --> 03:00:28,360
Speaker 1: a lot of failures. In fact, there was a big

3002
03:00:28,520 --> 03:00:32,080
Speaker 1: EpiPen recall a bunch of years ago, and there were

3003
03:00:32,160 --> 03:00:36,480
Speaker 1: just these tragic, tragic stories. Some guy had to watch

3004
03:00:36,640 --> 03:00:41,000
Speaker 1: his little kid die. He had had a pair of EpiPens.

3005
03:00:41,040 --> 03:00:44,320
Speaker 1: The kid went into shock, he used it, the thing failed,

3006
03:00:44,520 --> 03:00:46,440
Speaker 1: he brought the other one. The other one failed, and

3007
03:00:46,520 --> 03:00:48,760
Speaker 1: they're in the air and you can't land in fifteen

3008
03:00:48,760 --> 03:00:51,200
Speaker 1: minutes and the little kid died, which just and I'm

3009
03:00:51,240 --> 03:00:53,280
Speaker 1: sure there are dozens of dozens of stories like that

3010
03:00:53,400 --> 03:00:54,840
Speaker 1: that just happens to be one of the ones I know.

3011
03:00:55,600 --> 03:00:59,320
Speaker 1: So one of the things that's great about the epipencils

3012
03:00:59,400 --> 03:01:01,959
Speaker 1: because you're putting it together yourself and it only takes

3013
03:01:02,360 --> 03:01:05,800
Speaker 1: four parts, you can test it. You can make sure

3014
03:01:05,920 --> 03:01:08,320
Speaker 1: that it works as many times as you need to.

3015
03:01:08,440 --> 03:01:10,640
Speaker 1: You can dry run it with saline and just double

3016
03:01:10,760 --> 03:01:14,600
Speaker 1: check that it does what it's supposed to. Um. And

3017
03:01:14,760 --> 03:01:21,920
Speaker 1: so it's safer. So the fact that it's you can

3018
03:01:22,000 --> 03:01:25,480
Speaker 1: control yourself, you can reload it, and you can test it.

3019
03:01:25,800 --> 03:01:31,760
Speaker 1: All these things fix a lot of these immediate problems

3020
03:01:32,560 --> 03:01:35,280
Speaker 1: that come with and it still has the benefit that

3021
03:01:35,360 --> 03:01:39,040
Speaker 1: everybody wants from the EpiPen which is that it doesn't

3022
03:01:39,200 --> 03:01:46,840
Speaker 1: require um, you know, measurement or like knowing how deep

3023
03:01:46,959 --> 03:01:49,680
Speaker 1: to press the needle before you depress the plunger. All

3024
03:01:49,720 --> 03:01:53,119
Speaker 1: of that happens automatically, and it happens very quickly. UM.

3025
03:01:53,520 --> 03:01:55,000
Speaker 1: And Yeah, we as you say, we've got a lot

3026
03:01:55,040 --> 03:01:59,280
Speaker 1: of press for that because essentially a good timing. We've

3027
03:01:59,320 --> 03:02:02,680
Speaker 1: released the same time that Heather Brush was lying to

3028
03:02:02,760 --> 03:02:06,320
Speaker 1: Congress about why they hit raised the price on the

3029
03:02:06,400 --> 03:02:11,000
Speaker 1: epi pens and then so it was in the public eye. Yeah,

3030
03:02:11,320 --> 03:02:15,400
Speaker 1: and and that's that's a huge one, being able to

3031
03:02:15,440 --> 03:02:18,039
Speaker 1: produce that because that is I mean, there's a tremendous

3032
03:02:18,120 --> 03:02:22,560
Speaker 1: number of people who rely on uh EpiPens um and

3033
03:02:22,879 --> 03:02:28,080
Speaker 1: and I think the potential of that project is staggering.

3034
03:02:28,280 --> 03:02:30,560
Speaker 1: UM And there's some there's some you know, when we

3035
03:02:30,640 --> 03:02:32,720
Speaker 1: talk about kind of the different people who are who

3036
03:02:32,760 --> 03:02:34,800
Speaker 1: are working on similar problems to you, there's also a

3037
03:02:34,879 --> 03:02:38,199
Speaker 1: group of people who are working on UM cracking insulin,

3038
03:02:38,280 --> 03:02:40,880
Speaker 1: being able to produce insulin um. And Yeah, the open

3039
03:02:40,959 --> 03:02:44,840
Speaker 1: Insulin project is an amazing group of people, incredibly important.

3040
03:02:45,560 --> 03:02:51,040
Speaker 1: They're yeah, they're working on mm hmm, probably the largest

3041
03:02:51,160 --> 03:02:54,440
Speaker 1: scale public health crisis. I mean in terms of queries

3042
03:02:54,520 --> 03:02:57,440
Speaker 1: that we get, I think we get people asking about

3043
03:02:57,480 --> 03:03:00,480
Speaker 1: insulin more than anything else. And I always say, oh, yeah,

3044
03:03:01,440 --> 03:03:04,000
Speaker 1: they're very, very bright people already working on this. Go

3045
03:03:04,160 --> 03:03:07,400
Speaker 1: talk to the opening so um and and they're just amazing.

3046
03:03:08,400 --> 03:03:10,000
Speaker 1: I I want to move on because I want to

3047
03:03:10,160 --> 03:03:13,960
Speaker 1: talk about kind of the more um philosophical dimensions of

3048
03:03:14,040 --> 03:03:16,039
Speaker 1: some of this. But before we get into that, i'd

3049
03:03:16,080 --> 03:03:18,560
Speaker 1: like to so, like, you know, one of the things

3050
03:03:18,600 --> 03:03:20,440
Speaker 1: you and I've been talking about a little bit behind

3051
03:03:20,480 --> 03:03:23,640
Speaker 1: the scenes is I am not a technically savvy person,

3052
03:03:23,720 --> 03:03:25,920
Speaker 1: but I'm I want to try and I'd like to

3053
03:03:26,320 --> 03:03:28,720
Speaker 1: be able to like produce an epipensil. I want to

3054
03:03:28,800 --> 03:03:31,720
Speaker 1: like understand this it kind of and and potentially be

3055
03:03:31,760 --> 03:03:35,560
Speaker 1: able to contribute UM in a more direct sense, in

3056
03:03:35,640 --> 03:03:39,080
Speaker 1: part because I'm curious, like how how doable actually is this?

3057
03:03:39,320 --> 03:03:41,720
Speaker 1: For I consider myself a pretty normal person when it

3058
03:03:41,800 --> 03:03:44,840
Speaker 1: comes to like technical understanding, right, Like, I'm reasonably handy,

3059
03:03:45,240 --> 03:03:47,840
Speaker 1: but I'm not. I'm not a chemist, I'm not a

3060
03:03:48,040 --> 03:03:50,480
Speaker 1: I'm not a I haven't really I have no I

3061
03:03:50,520 --> 03:03:53,600
Speaker 1: have no prior experience three D printing or anything like that.

3062
03:03:54,280 --> 03:03:58,080
Speaker 1: What is what is required in terms of financial investment

3063
03:03:58,160 --> 03:04:00,320
Speaker 1: and what is kind of your general estimate in terms

3064
03:04:00,360 --> 03:04:03,680
Speaker 1: of time to get up to you know, a kind

3065
03:04:03,720 --> 03:04:07,600
Speaker 1: of the level where you can start learning how to

3066
03:04:07,640 --> 03:04:10,960
Speaker 1: do some of this stuff. I think the barrier to

3067
03:04:11,120 --> 03:04:14,680
Speaker 1: entry is pretty low, depending on how you want to start.

3068
03:04:16,480 --> 03:04:19,800
Speaker 1: As I said, there are different avenues to doing it.

3069
03:04:20,520 --> 03:04:23,040
Speaker 1: You can, of course, one of the one of the

3070
03:04:23,160 --> 03:04:26,160
Speaker 1: greatest hacks. If if anybody listening this doesn't pick up

3071
03:04:26,160 --> 03:04:29,240
Speaker 1: anything else, here's the best hack. In terms of getting

3072
03:04:29,280 --> 03:04:32,800
Speaker 1: access to medication. You have a medication, you don't have

3073
03:04:32,959 --> 03:04:36,440
Speaker 1: access to for whatever reason. Assuming it comes in a

3074
03:04:36,560 --> 03:04:40,840
Speaker 1: capsule form, you can nearly go to a chemical supplier,

3075
03:04:41,360 --> 03:04:45,640
Speaker 1: purchase the active pharmaceutical ingredient, wait out, put it into

3076
03:04:45,680 --> 03:04:48,960
Speaker 1: a capsule, and you've made your medication. That's a very

3077
03:04:49,040 --> 03:04:52,000
Speaker 1: simple thing, you know. That takes nothing more than being

3078
03:04:52,040 --> 03:04:54,080
Speaker 1: able to read a scale and scooping powder into a

3079
03:04:54,120 --> 03:04:59,160
Speaker 1: little you know, capsules. The next step up, there are

3080
03:05:00,360 --> 03:05:01,880
Speaker 1: things that you can do. They are a little more involved.

3081
03:05:01,920 --> 03:05:03,680
Speaker 1: If you want to build an epy pencil, again, this

3082
03:05:03,879 --> 03:05:07,600
Speaker 1: is three or four parts, depending on how you count.

3083
03:05:08,000 --> 03:05:12,720
Speaker 1: You take the needle from one syringe needle set on,

3084
03:05:12,920 --> 03:05:15,160
Speaker 1: you put it onto a different syringe needle set, and

3085
03:05:15,200 --> 03:05:18,480
Speaker 1: then you put it into this auto injector this design

3086
03:05:18,560 --> 03:05:22,560
Speaker 1: for needle phobic diabetics. You load it with the up

3087
03:05:22,600 --> 03:05:27,720
Speaker 1: and ring and you close it up and you're done. Then,

3088
03:05:28,280 --> 03:05:30,760
Speaker 1: if you want to step into this a little bit further,

3089
03:05:31,040 --> 03:05:34,680
Speaker 1: if something is so barriered for whatever reason that you

3090
03:05:34,800 --> 03:05:39,520
Speaker 1: can't get the actual ingredient, then you might start messing

3091
03:05:39,560 --> 03:05:42,920
Speaker 1: around with our micro lab. The micro lab, I would

3092
03:05:42,959 --> 03:05:46,280
Speaker 1: say probably takes around a hundred dollars US to build

3093
03:05:47,280 --> 03:05:52,800
Speaker 1: um it, but it's not super technical Our latest version

3094
03:05:52,879 --> 03:05:56,840
Speaker 1: doesn't require any soldering. Everything snaps together, which is really nice.

3095
03:05:57,400 --> 03:06:00,440
Speaker 1: You can plug everything in. All the ours are just

3096
03:06:00,520 --> 03:06:05,080
Speaker 1: screw terminals, which is really convenient. UM. And it takes

3097
03:06:05,240 --> 03:06:09,760
Speaker 1: some time and you do have to load some code,

3098
03:06:11,040 --> 03:06:15,240
Speaker 1: but we're looking to release a a new set of

3099
03:06:15,360 --> 03:06:20,080
Speaker 1: documentation in the summer that will be very very stripped

3100
03:06:20,160 --> 03:06:23,160
Speaker 1: down of here's your bill of materials. You can order

3101
03:06:23,200 --> 03:06:26,880
Speaker 1: all of this stuff. Here's how you can put the

3102
03:06:27,000 --> 03:06:29,960
Speaker 1: disk image onto the SD card that you put in,

3103
03:06:30,560 --> 03:06:32,800
Speaker 1: and you should start it and it will wake up

3104
03:06:32,879 --> 03:06:39,640
Speaker 1: and work independently. UM. We had a video of our

3105
03:06:39,760 --> 03:06:45,320
Speaker 1: head hardware guy actually building the micro lab from just

3106
03:06:45,560 --> 03:06:47,960
Speaker 1: parts that we're sitting on lay out on a table,

3107
03:06:48,480 --> 03:06:50,320
Speaker 1: and I think all told it took him about forty

3108
03:06:50,400 --> 03:06:54,560
Speaker 1: five minutes. Will be a little bit longer, but again,

3109
03:06:54,680 --> 03:06:58,080
Speaker 1: like granted, this guy's a hardware specialist and he you know,

3110
03:06:58,600 --> 03:07:02,160
Speaker 1: designed it, so for somebody who's not done before, it

3111
03:07:02,280 --> 03:07:06,720
Speaker 1: might take an afternoon, but it's not. It's not prohibitively

3112
03:07:06,879 --> 03:07:09,720
Speaker 1: long or involved project that you know, would take you

3113
03:07:09,840 --> 03:07:17,080
Speaker 1: weeks to put together, or any specialized understanding of you know,

3114
03:07:17,720 --> 03:07:22,360
Speaker 1: biomedical engineering or anything like that. Now, Um, I kind

3115
03:07:22,400 --> 03:07:23,680
Speaker 1: of want to move at this point because I think

3116
03:07:23,680 --> 03:07:26,720
Speaker 1: that gives people an idea of what's actually necessary and

3117
03:07:26,760 --> 03:07:29,200
Speaker 1: they can go to y'all's website or look up you

3118
03:07:29,280 --> 03:07:31,920
Speaker 1: have plans on a ge hub if they want to

3119
03:07:32,000 --> 03:07:35,040
Speaker 1: kind of look at what's what's involved and it's um.

3120
03:07:35,280 --> 03:07:37,160
Speaker 1: Some of it seems a little daunting to me, Like

3121
03:07:37,280 --> 03:07:39,400
Speaker 1: look looking at the construction of the bio lab, but

3122
03:07:39,480 --> 03:07:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm that that's going to be a project that I'll

3123
03:07:41,720 --> 03:07:43,600
Speaker 1: be engaging in over the next couple of weeks, so

3124
03:07:43,640 --> 03:07:46,840
Speaker 1: we'll keep people updated on how I do there. UM.

3125
03:07:47,080 --> 03:07:50,000
Speaker 1: I want to move on to talk Michael about what

3126
03:07:50,280 --> 03:07:53,880
Speaker 1: you see as kind of the I don't know, the

3127
03:07:55,560 --> 03:07:59,600
Speaker 1: the the potential from kind of a revolutionary perspective, from

3128
03:07:59,640 --> 03:08:04,039
Speaker 1: a perspe active of actually building dual power of this project.

3129
03:08:04,120 --> 03:08:06,240
Speaker 1: And obviously you are and I think what would would

3130
03:08:06,280 --> 03:08:08,720
Speaker 1: be called the early stages of this idea of kind

3131
03:08:08,760 --> 03:08:15,480
Speaker 1: of democratizing and decentralizing the production of life saving medications. Um.

3132
03:08:15,840 --> 03:08:17,560
Speaker 1: Although I guess you could argue in some ways it's

3133
03:08:17,600 --> 03:08:20,240
Speaker 1: kind of a return to more traditional attitudes about health

3134
03:08:20,280 --> 03:08:23,440
Speaker 1: care in a lot of ways. Yeah, there's a cyclic

3135
03:08:23,560 --> 03:08:27,720
Speaker 1: nature there and in the sort of zend mind, beginner's mind.

3136
03:08:27,800 --> 03:08:30,960
Speaker 1: We'd like to think that the revolution is always in

3137
03:08:31,040 --> 03:08:35,800
Speaker 1: its beginning stages, right. UM. That to say, over the

3138
03:08:35,920 --> 03:08:41,480
Speaker 1: past decade, roughly looking at trying to find ways to

3139
03:08:42,840 --> 03:08:49,760
Speaker 1: give people more independent access that doesn't require infrastructure, to

3140
03:08:49,920 --> 03:08:59,800
Speaker 1: medicines and medical technologies. The the hope really is to

3141
03:09:00,520 --> 03:09:06,080
Speaker 1: create a certain amount of cultural shift. I remember at

3142
03:09:06,120 --> 03:09:10,720
Speaker 1: one point a friend of mine, who as a business

3143
03:09:10,760 --> 03:09:14,119
Speaker 1: school graduate, asked me a very sort of like business

3144
03:09:14,160 --> 03:09:18,720
Speaker 1: school type question where he said, how would you measure

3145
03:09:18,800 --> 03:09:23,960
Speaker 1: success of your project? UM? And I said, well, we

3146
03:09:24,120 --> 03:09:27,080
Speaker 1: cease to exist as an organization, and he kind of

3147
03:09:27,160 --> 03:09:30,360
Speaker 1: had this moment of like, what do you mean. We

3148
03:09:30,440 --> 03:09:34,360
Speaker 1: shouldn't be pushing this right, The ideas that eventually the

3149
03:09:34,600 --> 03:09:40,440
Speaker 1: concept of managing your own health is sufficiently normalized that

3150
03:09:40,720 --> 03:09:44,640
Speaker 1: it's not something that has to be explained between people.

3151
03:09:44,760 --> 03:09:49,880
Speaker 1: But somebody says, oh, yeah, I just I just did

3152
03:09:49,959 --> 03:09:54,360
Speaker 1: that up in my micro lab. UM. In the same

3153
03:09:54,520 --> 03:09:58,160
Speaker 1: way that when you look at the shift that happened

3154
03:09:58,200 --> 03:10:04,840
Speaker 1: between oh, you know, the mid eighties in the mid nineties,

3155
03:10:05,720 --> 03:10:11,560
Speaker 1: where computers were this strange, scary thing that was, you know,

3156
03:10:11,640 --> 03:10:15,640
Speaker 1: we're only accessible or usable by people who were very

3157
03:10:15,680 --> 03:10:18,800
Speaker 1: specialized is something that you know, everybody knew about and

3158
03:10:18,800 --> 03:10:21,320
Speaker 1: everybody kind of had and everybody sort of used, And

3159
03:10:21,440 --> 03:10:25,119
Speaker 1: the same sort of thing that happened between the period

3160
03:10:25,320 --> 03:10:30,080
Speaker 1: of time I don't know, maybe ten twelve years ago

3161
03:10:30,200 --> 03:10:34,920
Speaker 1: and now with with three D printing, where like stereo

3162
03:10:35,040 --> 03:10:38,520
Speaker 1: lithography and rapid prototyping was again the specialized thing that

3163
03:10:38,600 --> 03:10:41,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who were essentially at the machine

3164
03:10:41,480 --> 03:10:45,760
Speaker 1: tool industry had started to spearhead, and now you say

3165
03:10:45,920 --> 03:10:48,560
Speaker 1: three printing, everybody knows what it means in the same

3166
03:10:48,600 --> 03:10:52,800
Speaker 1: sort of way. I'd very much like to see a

3167
03:10:52,879 --> 03:11:02,359
Speaker 1: cultural shift where when somebody is unwell, that when discussions

3168
03:11:02,400 --> 03:11:05,560
Speaker 1: between people happened, that instead of the have you had

3169
03:11:05,640 --> 03:11:12,280
Speaker 1: that looked at, or you might instead hear from somebody saying,

3170
03:11:12,840 --> 03:11:17,440
Speaker 1: well have you read up on that? You know, to

3171
03:11:17,600 --> 03:11:21,440
Speaker 1: see people actually engaged in their own health and not

3172
03:11:23,840 --> 03:11:28,240
Speaker 1: going through this very typical process of outsourcing responsibility. Now

3173
03:11:28,280 --> 03:11:31,600
Speaker 1: it's not to say that like experts aren't good people

3174
03:11:31,720 --> 03:11:34,520
Speaker 1: with whom to consult, right, Yeah, we're not talking about

3175
03:11:34,600 --> 03:11:38,760
Speaker 1: replacing the idea of medical professionals who can help you

3176
03:11:38,920 --> 03:11:42,640
Speaker 1: understand what your health and diagnose and stuff like yeah, well,

3177
03:11:42,720 --> 03:11:47,640
Speaker 1: there is again this drastic difference between going to a

3178
03:11:47,879 --> 03:11:51,360
Speaker 1: doctor and essentially just like throwing the problem on their

3179
03:11:51,440 --> 03:11:54,440
Speaker 1: desk and saying fixed it, call me when it's over,

3180
03:11:55,240 --> 03:11:58,560
Speaker 1: versus going to a doctor and saying, hey, I'd like

3181
03:11:58,640 --> 03:12:02,800
Speaker 1: to talk about this. I'd like to know more about

3182
03:12:03,000 --> 03:12:07,720
Speaker 1: what's wrong here, and I'd like to discuss what the

3183
03:12:07,879 --> 03:12:15,480
Speaker 1: options are and what seems best. Um that would be

3184
03:12:15,600 --> 03:12:18,640
Speaker 1: great on a lot of levels. And and then these

3185
03:12:18,920 --> 03:12:24,600
Speaker 1: questions of access to medication then become even more relevant

3186
03:12:25,200 --> 03:12:30,400
Speaker 1: because when you're talking with a doctor and the doctor says, okay,

3187
03:12:30,440 --> 03:12:33,720
Speaker 1: well we could try this therapy, but your insurance won't

3188
03:12:33,720 --> 03:12:36,640
Speaker 1: pay for it this three hundred thou dollars, you can say,

3189
03:12:36,680 --> 03:12:38,720
Speaker 1: all right, well let's just do a little thought experiment

3190
03:12:38,760 --> 03:12:40,640
Speaker 1: and if that fell from a truck, what would I

3191
03:12:40,720 --> 03:12:42,960
Speaker 1: do with it? And then maybe you can go home

3192
03:12:43,040 --> 03:12:45,520
Speaker 1: and say, you know, I'll call you and let you

3193
03:12:45,600 --> 03:12:52,800
Speaker 1: know how it goes. I that's that's really my my

3194
03:12:53,040 --> 03:12:55,160
Speaker 1: grant hope, And there are so many different ways that

3195
03:12:55,200 --> 03:12:58,160
Speaker 1: that can play out. In fact, I'll tell you a

3196
03:12:58,320 --> 03:13:02,680
Speaker 1: hilarious story in regards to this, which was in I

3197
03:13:02,720 --> 03:13:06,720
Speaker 1: guess it was when we presented it hope. UM. I

3198
03:13:06,879 --> 03:13:10,959
Speaker 1: called Martin Shakraley's cell phone from stage UH to try

3199
03:13:11,000 --> 03:13:14,560
Speaker 1: and ask him what he thought about what we were doing,

3200
03:13:15,080 --> 03:13:17,120
Speaker 1: given that I was handing his drug out for free

3201
03:13:17,920 --> 03:13:20,960
Speaker 1: UM and showing people how to make it. And he

3202
03:13:21,040 --> 03:13:22,920
Speaker 1: didn't answer the phone when I called him then, but

3203
03:13:22,959 --> 03:13:26,680
Speaker 1: he called me back a few hours later, which was

3204
03:13:26,800 --> 03:13:31,200
Speaker 1: really hilarious. We actually chatted for a while and the guys,

3205
03:13:31,600 --> 03:13:34,800
Speaker 1: I mean a little detached from reality, but he's he's

3206
03:13:34,920 --> 03:13:39,200
Speaker 1: no dummy um. And when I sort of described what

3207
03:13:39,280 --> 03:13:41,560
Speaker 1: we were trying to do with the micro lab, he

3208
03:13:42,120 --> 03:13:46,200
Speaker 1: had some interesting insights and he said, yeah, you know,

3209
03:13:46,400 --> 03:13:48,760
Speaker 1: one way I can imagine that working really well is

3210
03:13:49,080 --> 03:13:55,040
Speaker 1: if somebody with a little more knowledge of pharmaceutical medicine

3211
03:13:56,200 --> 03:14:00,760
Speaker 1: were too, maybe build one of these and serve a

3212
03:14:00,840 --> 03:14:03,760
Speaker 1: small community. I think that could be very efficient. And

3213
03:14:03,840 --> 03:14:10,680
Speaker 1: I was like, that's a good thought, you Chiseling bastard. Um. Yeah,

3214
03:14:11,400 --> 03:14:13,760
Speaker 1: I mean that there's a degree which that's that's kind

3215
03:14:13,800 --> 03:14:16,960
Speaker 1: of how I see the most realistic potential. This is

3216
03:14:17,000 --> 03:14:19,520
Speaker 1: not every individual making all of their medicine, but kind

3217
03:14:19,520 --> 03:14:22,480
Speaker 1: of like you know we had during the fires last year,

3218
03:14:22,560 --> 03:14:25,080
Speaker 1: when when our local and state governments during the heatwave

3219
03:14:25,160 --> 03:14:28,480
Speaker 1: this year, like completely shat the bed. We had different

3220
03:14:28,600 --> 03:14:31,400
Speaker 1: mutual aid collectives do things like we are providing people

3221
03:14:31,440 --> 03:14:33,720
Speaker 1: with like oh, it's a blizzard, We're providing people with firewood.

3222
03:14:34,040 --> 03:14:36,840
Speaker 1: We are providing people with cooling stations because of the heat.

3223
03:14:36,879 --> 03:14:38,760
Speaker 1: You know, we are providing people with they've just fled

3224
03:14:38,840 --> 03:14:41,640
Speaker 1: their houses. We have kits that have food and basic

3225
03:14:41,720 --> 03:14:44,520
Speaker 1: necessities so they can get through mutual aid collectives that

3226
03:14:44,560 --> 03:14:46,440
Speaker 1: are like, well, we are making we specialize and we

3227
03:14:46,480 --> 03:14:49,080
Speaker 1: can produce this and this and this medication like these

3228
03:14:49,160 --> 03:14:51,000
Speaker 1: three and we have and here's the information you can

3229
03:14:51,040 --> 03:14:53,080
Speaker 1: find online about our process. You know that we know

3230
03:14:53,160 --> 03:14:55,040
Speaker 1: what we're doing. And if you need these things, you

3231
03:14:55,160 --> 03:14:56,760
Speaker 1: let us know and we we get them to you.

3232
03:14:57,080 --> 03:14:59,320
Speaker 1: And here's different ways in which people can volunteer if

3233
03:14:59,320 --> 03:15:01,440
Speaker 1: you want to help engage in this mutual aid process,

3234
03:15:01,480 --> 03:15:04,760
Speaker 1: even if you're not someone who's going to be doing

3235
03:15:04,800 --> 03:15:06,760
Speaker 1: a lot of the technical stuff. But we need people

3236
03:15:06,760 --> 03:15:08,200
Speaker 1: to go pick up parts, so we need people to

3237
03:15:08,240 --> 03:15:10,320
Speaker 1: do this, and you can help us here. You know,

3238
03:15:10,840 --> 03:15:13,360
Speaker 1: I see a lot of and I think, yeah, yeah,

3239
03:15:13,440 --> 03:15:15,080
Speaker 1: and I think in a similar way, right, A lot

3240
03:15:15,120 --> 03:15:17,680
Speaker 1: of that sort of thing is already happening in other

3241
03:15:17,879 --> 03:15:20,320
Speaker 1: realms right where. It's the sort of thing where you

3242
03:15:20,840 --> 03:15:24,040
Speaker 1: might be building something, or you you see some project

3243
03:15:24,120 --> 03:15:26,600
Speaker 1: on GitHub or whatever, and some there are these STL

3244
03:15:26,680 --> 03:15:29,120
Speaker 1: files and you go, oh, gosh, well I don't know

3245
03:15:29,200 --> 03:15:31,400
Speaker 1: how to do that. Oh right, x y Z down

3246
03:15:31,440 --> 03:15:34,440
Speaker 1: the street as a three D printer. I'll go ask her.

3247
03:15:35,080 --> 03:15:38,160
Speaker 1: She's really good at making these things. And you say, hey, look,

3248
03:15:38,240 --> 03:15:40,199
Speaker 1: I have this thing. Would this be difficult to print?

3249
03:15:40,920 --> 03:15:42,920
Speaker 1: And with their experience they can kind of look at

3250
03:15:42,959 --> 03:15:46,280
Speaker 1: and be like, I know that that shouldn't be too hard. Um,

3251
03:15:46,720 --> 03:15:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, I have some time this weekend, maybe I

3252
03:15:48,680 --> 03:15:51,000
Speaker 1: can make that for you. And in the same way,

3253
03:15:51,600 --> 03:15:54,200
Speaker 1: you say, hey, it looks like I seem to have

3254
03:15:54,360 --> 03:15:57,560
Speaker 1: this rare infection from whatever whatever, or I have this

3255
03:15:57,760 --> 03:16:02,920
Speaker 1: odd condition. Um, I wanted to try this medication because

3256
03:16:03,040 --> 03:16:05,920
Speaker 1: it might be really helpful, but it's not legal in

3257
03:16:06,000 --> 03:16:09,000
Speaker 1: this country. Do you think you can put this together? Again?

3258
03:16:09,080 --> 03:16:11,360
Speaker 1: You know, you call somebody and whoever's on the other

3259
03:16:11,440 --> 03:16:14,720
Speaker 1: line says, oh, yeah, I have a micro lab. I

3260
03:16:15,120 --> 03:16:16,840
Speaker 1: can try and put a program together for that and

3261
03:16:17,080 --> 03:16:19,520
Speaker 1: see if I can make it for you. That sort

3262
03:16:19,520 --> 03:16:24,600
Speaker 1: of thing I think is a potentially really positive avenue

3263
03:16:24,760 --> 03:16:28,119
Speaker 1: for that sort of thing to proliferate and again eventually

3264
03:16:28,800 --> 03:16:36,960
Speaker 1: to have a cultural shift where the idea of medicine

3265
03:16:37,040 --> 03:16:42,280
Speaker 1: and medical technology not being something that is comes down

3266
03:16:42,520 --> 03:16:47,240
Speaker 1: from above, from some authority, but instead is something that's

3267
03:16:47,800 --> 03:16:51,879
Speaker 1: managed by people who are part of your community, who

3268
03:16:51,920 --> 03:16:54,320
Speaker 1: you already trust. I mean, that's why going to a

3269
03:16:54,440 --> 03:16:56,880
Speaker 1: doctor is so scary. They seem to be the arbiter

3270
03:16:57,040 --> 03:17:00,520
Speaker 1: of your fate. They're going to tell you whether you're

3271
03:17:00,560 --> 03:17:05,880
Speaker 1: well or not. And that is just the truth and

3272
03:17:07,040 --> 03:17:10,560
Speaker 1: much better to have it where people are making up

3273
03:17:10,600 --> 03:17:14,520
Speaker 1: their own mind based on learning about their own health

3274
03:17:14,800 --> 03:17:19,840
Speaker 1: and consulting with people who can give them perspective. Um.

3275
03:17:19,959 --> 03:17:23,400
Speaker 1: And if there's more of that, and if it's closer

3276
03:17:23,560 --> 03:17:28,200
Speaker 1: to the person who's actually suffering, that I think will

3277
03:17:28,280 --> 03:17:31,680
Speaker 1: be on the whole much better. Yeah. It's this the

3278
03:17:32,680 --> 03:17:34,360
Speaker 1: and this gets tangled up in a lot of the

3279
03:17:34,400 --> 03:17:36,240
Speaker 1: more toxic things we've seen this year, But it's this

3280
03:17:36,400 --> 03:17:43,080
Speaker 1: this understanding that with any given problem, if individuals trying

3281
03:17:43,120 --> 03:17:45,840
Speaker 1: to solve that problem have more autonomy, and part of

3282
03:17:45,920 --> 03:17:51,600
Speaker 1: autonomy is knowledge, that's nearly always better. Um. The problem,

3283
03:17:51,640 --> 03:17:53,240
Speaker 1: of course is that like we we get into this

3284
03:17:53,320 --> 03:17:55,640
Speaker 1: situation we are now where some people take I'm take

3285
03:17:56,040 --> 03:17:59,920
Speaker 1: some people some people use I want to take control

3286
03:18:00,080 --> 03:18:03,119
Speaker 1: of my health care to you know, do stuff that's nonsense.

3287
03:18:03,200 --> 03:18:05,920
Speaker 1: And that brings us back to the question of like, yeah,

3288
03:18:06,000 --> 03:18:08,320
Speaker 1: you need in for the quality of the information that

3289
03:18:08,440 --> 03:18:10,960
Speaker 1: you're getting is very important, right because if if you're

3290
03:18:11,400 --> 03:18:14,320
Speaker 1: if you if your research is some YouTube video that

3291
03:18:14,360 --> 03:18:16,800
Speaker 1: has convinced you that you need to you know, take

3292
03:18:16,879 --> 03:18:19,680
Speaker 1: this this horse paste or something, then yeah, that's not good.

3293
03:18:19,879 --> 03:18:23,600
Speaker 1: But that doesn't change the fact that, like with food,

3294
03:18:23,760 --> 03:18:27,120
Speaker 1: like with with everything that you need to survive, the

3295
03:18:27,240 --> 03:18:32,880
Speaker 1: more of a role you have in understanding that deciding

3296
03:18:33,120 --> 03:18:35,039
Speaker 1: what to do with that, understanding where it comes from

3297
03:18:35,160 --> 03:18:38,880
Speaker 1: and how it is produced. Um. Not just like not

3298
03:18:39,000 --> 03:18:41,080
Speaker 1: only is that I think more satisfying as a human,

3299
03:18:41,120 --> 03:18:47,760
Speaker 1: but it's it's also critical to to your well being.

3300
03:18:48,240 --> 03:18:51,600
Speaker 1: Um it's critical to like on two levels, right on

3301
03:18:51,760 --> 03:18:58,320
Speaker 1: two levels, because not only when your health is taken

3302
03:18:58,520 --> 03:19:02,760
Speaker 1: from you, it doesn't deprive you of life, but it

3303
03:19:02,879 --> 03:19:06,720
Speaker 1: deprives you participating in any of the acts that make

3304
03:19:08,360 --> 03:19:12,120
Speaker 1: life meaningful. And part of that key thing that makes

3305
03:19:12,200 --> 03:19:19,800
Speaker 1: life meaningful is having a participatory role in the things

3306
03:19:19,879 --> 03:19:23,520
Speaker 1: that decide the trajectory of your life. And so when

3307
03:19:23,800 --> 03:19:28,800
Speaker 1: you go to the lengths of managing your own health,

3308
03:19:29,600 --> 03:19:34,280
Speaker 1: two things happen. First off, your health improves, assuming you've

3309
03:19:34,320 --> 03:19:38,879
Speaker 1: made good decisions and get lucky. But second, you're also

3310
03:19:39,200 --> 03:19:44,760
Speaker 1: having a participatory role in your life, and that makes

3311
03:19:44,959 --> 03:19:48,880
Speaker 1: life more meaningful. And it beyond just kind of the

3312
03:19:49,280 --> 03:19:53,160
Speaker 1: self actualization benefits from from a perspective of actually enabling

3313
03:19:53,200 --> 03:19:56,520
Speaker 1: people to participate in the move for radical change in

3314
03:19:56,600 --> 03:20:00,720
Speaker 1: our society. One necessary element of to any of the

3315
03:20:00,840 --> 03:20:04,840
Speaker 1: kind of things that we need is a belief in

3316
03:20:05,000 --> 03:20:09,440
Speaker 1: your own agency and power. Um. And also and a

3317
03:20:09,640 --> 03:20:13,359
Speaker 1: freedom from the kind of fear that comes from feeling helpless.

3318
03:20:13,440 --> 03:20:16,520
Speaker 1: And there is I think probably no feeling worse in

3319
03:20:16,600 --> 03:20:21,480
Speaker 1: the world than feeling completely helpless about a treatable medical problem. Um.

3320
03:20:21,640 --> 03:20:23,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one thing I just went through to

3321
03:20:23,200 --> 03:20:25,040
Speaker 1: my mom. When you get a disease where there's just

3322
03:20:25,120 --> 03:20:27,480
Speaker 1: nothing that science can do right, where like, yeah, you've

3323
03:20:27,520 --> 03:20:30,119
Speaker 1: got this cancer and there there ain't ship anybody has

3324
03:20:30,200 --> 03:20:33,480
Speaker 1: for you. You know, that's one kind of horrible, but

3325
03:20:34,600 --> 03:20:36,920
Speaker 1: I think it's a lot less terrible than you. I

3326
03:20:37,840 --> 03:20:40,160
Speaker 1: have this thing that we can deal with, but I

3327
03:20:40,240 --> 03:20:41,959
Speaker 1: either can't afford it or I don't know that I'll

3328
03:20:41,959 --> 03:20:43,880
Speaker 1: be able to afford it. I had a horrible I

3329
03:20:43,959 --> 03:20:46,640
Speaker 1: lost my job in my healthcare in seventeen and so

3330
03:20:46,840 --> 03:20:49,360
Speaker 1: did a person who was on my healthcare with me

3331
03:20:49,440 --> 03:20:53,800
Speaker 1: that I love very much. And I got this, you know,

3332
03:20:54,000 --> 03:20:56,640
Speaker 1: hired here in healthcare a couple of years later. And

3333
03:20:56,720 --> 03:21:01,520
Speaker 1: it happened that a month before the the I started

3334
03:21:01,560 --> 03:21:04,120
Speaker 1: my health care at this new job, this person who

3335
03:21:04,200 --> 03:21:06,920
Speaker 1: was on my healthcare with me um got diagnosed with

3336
03:21:06,959 --> 03:21:09,240
Speaker 1: a brain tumor, and thankfully not a cancerous one, but

3337
03:21:09,240 --> 03:21:11,040
Speaker 1: the one that they had to take medication for that

3338
03:21:11,120 --> 03:21:14,560
Speaker 1: would have been would have bankrupted us, you know, without

3339
03:21:15,480 --> 03:21:18,800
Speaker 1: the without insurance, and thankfully it worked out fine. The

3340
03:21:18,879 --> 03:21:21,480
Speaker 1: timing worked out okay. But there's not a week that

3341
03:21:21,600 --> 03:21:24,560
Speaker 1: goes by that I don't and it it it's it's

3342
03:21:25,280 --> 03:21:27,840
Speaker 1: it is something that makes you less willing to take risks,

3343
03:21:27,920 --> 03:21:31,840
Speaker 1: less willing to participate in in things that because you

3344
03:21:31,959 --> 03:21:33,320
Speaker 1: have in the back of your head, well, I have

3345
03:21:33,520 --> 03:21:35,480
Speaker 1: to I have to keep this job, I have to

3346
03:21:35,560 --> 03:21:39,160
Speaker 1: keep this insurance, I have to y yeah. That and

3347
03:21:39,800 --> 03:21:42,880
Speaker 1: that's another thing that I find so heartbreaking. There's so

3348
03:21:43,040 --> 03:21:48,440
Speaker 1: many people that I've I've met totally outside of my

3349
03:21:48,560 --> 03:21:53,480
Speaker 1: activism who lament about working a job that they hate,

3350
03:21:53,560 --> 03:21:57,320
Speaker 1: and I say, gosh, for you know, I mean, you

3351
03:21:57,680 --> 03:22:00,760
Speaker 1: consider just bailing on it and looking for something else

3352
03:22:00,840 --> 03:22:05,680
Speaker 1: and trying something else. And they have this total paralysis

3353
03:22:06,920 --> 03:22:11,360
Speaker 1: of saying, but if I quit my job, I won't

3354
03:22:11,400 --> 03:22:17,360
Speaker 1: have healthcare mhm and and and mind you like, these

3355
03:22:17,520 --> 03:22:22,600
Speaker 1: were people who were incredibly healthy. These were not people

3356
03:22:22,640 --> 03:22:27,240
Speaker 1: who had any regular visits to healthcare. They're just scared

3357
03:22:27,320 --> 03:22:30,080
Speaker 1: that if something comes up, they want people to handle it.

3358
03:22:30,640 --> 03:22:34,480
Speaker 1: And it's it's a perfectly well grounded fear. But as

3359
03:22:34,600 --> 03:22:39,280
Speaker 1: you point out, what this does is it works as

3360
03:22:39,360 --> 03:22:47,560
Speaker 1: this sort of shadow oppressive mechanism to keep people from exploring,

3361
03:22:47,920 --> 03:22:50,560
Speaker 1: trying things, as you say, taking risks, or or just

3362
03:22:51,400 --> 03:22:58,880
Speaker 1: doing things that that don't involve a an optimization toward

3363
03:22:58,959 --> 03:23:01,800
Speaker 1: a stable state of maybe just like yeah, maybe it'll

3364
03:23:01,840 --> 03:23:04,320
Speaker 1: start a small business, and yeah it probably will fail,

3365
03:23:04,360 --> 03:23:08,120
Speaker 1: but that will be a cool adventure. And most people,

3366
03:23:08,480 --> 03:23:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, so many people, maybe not most, but many

3367
03:23:11,080 --> 03:23:16,760
Speaker 1: many people, um get just terrified into this state of

3368
03:23:16,920 --> 03:23:21,840
Speaker 1: inertial paralysis. Yeah, and it contributes to people being afraid

3369
03:23:21,879 --> 03:23:24,320
Speaker 1: to take to the street to protest the police because

3370
03:23:24,360 --> 03:23:26,360
Speaker 1: maybe they get arrested, and maybe they get fired, and

3371
03:23:26,400 --> 03:23:29,040
Speaker 1: then you know, maybe their kid can't afford their Like

3372
03:23:29,120 --> 03:23:32,160
Speaker 1: there's a thousand ways. I think, honestly, the fear of

3373
03:23:32,440 --> 03:23:35,879
Speaker 1: losing your health care is in some ways as great

3374
03:23:36,080 --> 03:23:39,240
Speaker 1: a greater counter revolutionary force than any law enforcement agency

3375
03:23:39,280 --> 03:23:41,560
Speaker 1: could hope to be, because the fear is so much

3376
03:23:41,600 --> 03:23:46,360
Speaker 1: more immediate to so many people. Nobody talks about that,

3377
03:23:46,879 --> 03:23:49,360
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for mentioning it, because it's

3378
03:23:49,400 --> 03:23:52,280
Speaker 1: something that like, oftentimes I try to bring up when

3379
03:23:53,160 --> 03:23:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm discussing things in public for and and oftentimes people

3380
03:23:56,680 --> 03:23:58,240
Speaker 1: kind of raise an eyebrow and me and be like,

3381
03:23:58,560 --> 03:24:00,480
Speaker 1: that's what's the big deal, And I'm like, I don't know. Like,

3382
03:24:00,760 --> 03:24:04,039
Speaker 1: if you look two layers deep, there's something that's really

3383
03:24:04,200 --> 03:24:12,160
Speaker 1: working against people being able to exercise protests, and it's, uh,

3384
03:24:12,560 --> 03:24:16,680
Speaker 1: it's it's it's this really silent, terrifying force that seems

3385
03:24:16,720 --> 03:24:22,280
Speaker 1: to underlie everything. And if you could alleviate that, if

3386
03:24:22,320 --> 03:24:25,040
Speaker 1: you could get to the point where people are like, yeah,

3387
03:24:25,080 --> 03:24:27,440
Speaker 1: the hell with it, you know, I don't need a

3388
03:24:27,720 --> 03:24:31,240
Speaker 1: job to take care of me, then all of a

3389
03:24:31,320 --> 03:24:36,640
Speaker 1: sudden so many possibilities just blossom in the mind. Yeah,

3390
03:24:38,040 --> 03:24:40,080
Speaker 1: if you have, like it, say, if you're a parent

3391
03:24:40,120 --> 03:24:44,240
Speaker 1: who has a child with you know who, who's insolent dependent. Uh,

3392
03:24:44,840 --> 03:24:47,840
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of difference in my mind between

3393
03:24:48,000 --> 03:24:50,880
Speaker 1: the fact that between someone holding a gun to your

3394
03:24:50,920 --> 03:24:53,480
Speaker 1: head and your boss being able to fire you and

3395
03:24:53,560 --> 03:24:56,199
Speaker 1: take away your your kids access to that insulent there's

3396
03:24:56,200 --> 03:24:59,400
Speaker 1: not a tremendous moral difference to me, Um, there's not.

3397
03:25:00,320 --> 03:25:02,680
Speaker 1: I'd say getting a gun to your head is actually

3398
03:25:03,520 --> 03:25:08,160
Speaker 1: more likely to survive that it's less inevitable. You could

3399
03:25:08,200 --> 03:25:11,600
Speaker 1: talk your way out of that, and yeah, whatever, but

3400
03:25:11,800 --> 03:25:13,880
Speaker 1: there are any number of things that might go wrong there.

3401
03:25:13,920 --> 03:25:16,680
Speaker 1: But if somebody takes takes away your insulin, that's the

3402
03:25:17,000 --> 03:25:20,320
Speaker 1: end of this story. Yeah, I guess the more salient

3403
03:25:20,400 --> 03:25:23,160
Speaker 1: point than the comparison issues. They're both acts of violence,

3404
03:25:23,560 --> 03:25:25,920
Speaker 1: and in every way that's meaningful, I think they're both

3405
03:25:25,959 --> 03:25:28,680
Speaker 1: acts of violence. Well, and one way that when I

3406
03:25:29,520 --> 03:25:34,400
Speaker 1: rail against intellectual property as a concept and intellectual property law,

3407
03:25:35,080 --> 03:25:37,680
Speaker 1: the example that I give is they say, if somebody

3408
03:25:37,760 --> 03:25:41,119
Speaker 1: were dying and you knew how to save them, would

3409
03:25:41,120 --> 03:25:45,080
Speaker 1: you ever not tell them how and just watch them

3410
03:25:45,200 --> 03:25:48,000
Speaker 1: die say oh no, that idea belongs to me, and

3411
03:25:48,080 --> 03:25:51,240
Speaker 1: I'm not going to share unless you pay me. Like

3412
03:25:51,600 --> 03:25:55,040
Speaker 1: no human being that I think I've ever heard of

3413
03:25:55,760 --> 03:26:03,440
Speaker 1: would do that. And yet this happens day because we've

3414
03:26:03,520 --> 03:26:07,880
Speaker 1: sort of carried these questions of copyright into patents and

3415
03:26:08,480 --> 03:26:10,560
Speaker 1: despite the fact that they're hundreds of years old and

3416
03:26:10,840 --> 03:26:16,400
Speaker 1: not applicable anymore, assuming they were ever applicable, and people

3417
03:26:16,520 --> 03:26:19,400
Speaker 1: just die because people say, oh, well, we can make

3418
03:26:19,440 --> 03:26:21,720
Speaker 1: more money if we do it this way. There's a

3419
03:26:21,760 --> 03:26:25,400
Speaker 1: fascinating thing going on there when you when you really

3420
03:26:25,480 --> 03:26:27,240
Speaker 1: drill into that idea, because I suspect there are a

3421
03:26:27,360 --> 03:26:31,800
Speaker 1: lot of people who have who are are integral in

3422
03:26:31,920 --> 03:26:35,200
Speaker 1: propping up this system, both of kind of medical intellectual

3423
03:26:35,280 --> 03:26:37,720
Speaker 1: property and of just like the pharmaceutical industry, the way

3424
03:26:37,760 --> 03:26:40,440
Speaker 1: that it works people in politics, huge numbers of people

3425
03:26:40,480 --> 03:26:43,520
Speaker 1: who are integral in some facet of keeping that going,

3426
03:26:43,920 --> 03:26:47,119
Speaker 1: who also, were they to see an individual and immediate

3427
03:26:47,160 --> 03:26:50,520
Speaker 1: medical distress, would never think of like try getting their

3428
03:26:51,080 --> 03:26:54,160
Speaker 1: debit card number or whatever, like asking them, would would

3429
03:26:54,320 --> 03:26:57,400
Speaker 1: without thinking attempt because that's what people do, and it's

3430
03:26:57,440 --> 03:26:58,880
Speaker 1: I mean, this is where we get into kind of

3431
03:26:58,959 --> 03:27:03,480
Speaker 1: some of these more philosophical anarchist ideas about what hierarchy

3432
03:27:03,680 --> 03:27:07,480
Speaker 1: does and what these structures do, because structures enable people

3433
03:27:07,520 --> 03:27:11,960
Speaker 1: to participate in evil that they never would as an individual. Um, yeah,

3434
03:27:12,040 --> 03:27:16,160
Speaker 1: there's this easy route that, but many easy routes that

3435
03:27:16,280 --> 03:27:21,560
Speaker 1: pop up that allow people or force, I should say

3436
03:27:21,640 --> 03:27:25,600
Speaker 1: force people to be displaced from their humanity in that

3437
03:27:25,760 --> 03:27:29,320
Speaker 1: sort of way where, yes, of course, you you help

3438
03:27:29,440 --> 03:27:33,200
Speaker 1: somebody up off of subway tracks if they've fallen. Yes,

3439
03:27:33,280 --> 03:27:36,560
Speaker 1: of course, if somebody were drowning, you drag them out

3440
03:27:36,640 --> 03:27:40,520
Speaker 1: and save them. And yet just because it's a degree

3441
03:27:40,600 --> 03:27:44,760
Speaker 1: removed and it's mediated by an agency, suddenly it's so

3442
03:27:45,400 --> 03:27:49,560
Speaker 1: easy to forget and ignore and be sort of complicit.

3443
03:27:49,680 --> 03:27:53,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I just to go back around to

3444
03:27:53,920 --> 03:27:56,440
Speaker 1: what four Thieves is doing and what y'all are doing.

3445
03:27:56,959 --> 03:28:00,360
Speaker 1: It's one of the few projects going on right now

3446
03:28:01,080 --> 03:28:05,360
Speaker 1: that fits what my idealistic nineteen year old brain thought

3447
03:28:05,400 --> 03:28:07,640
Speaker 1: the Internet would be sixteen fifteen, Like when I when

3448
03:28:07,680 --> 03:28:09,840
Speaker 1: it was, when things were newer and a little less.

3449
03:28:10,520 --> 03:28:12,440
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, this is like one of these days,

3450
03:28:12,520 --> 03:28:15,039
Speaker 1: well this kind of ship is going to happen. Um,

3451
03:28:16,080 --> 03:28:18,120
Speaker 1: And that is I think, I mean, that's that's not

3452
03:28:18,560 --> 03:28:21,760
Speaker 1: without value from again a revolutionary perspective, the fact that

3453
03:28:21,840 --> 03:28:25,920
Speaker 1: it is pretty rad you know. Well, I mean I

3454
03:28:26,040 --> 03:28:28,400
Speaker 1: will not deny the fact that it feels good, you

3455
03:28:28,480 --> 03:28:32,600
Speaker 1: know there. I think that I think that we all

3456
03:28:32,720 --> 03:28:37,040
Speaker 1: grew up with that sort of hope and belief that

3457
03:28:37,600 --> 03:28:40,360
Speaker 1: we were gonna open these new doors and there were

3458
03:28:40,400 --> 03:28:43,000
Speaker 1: going to be these new possibilities and things that we

3459
03:28:44,160 --> 03:28:46,800
Speaker 1: have been reading about in science fiction. We're going to

3460
03:28:46,879 --> 03:28:51,880
Speaker 1: become real and and there's there's a great satisfaction in

3461
03:28:52,520 --> 03:28:56,520
Speaker 1: not just witnessing your childhood dreams become realities, but actually,

3462
03:28:56,720 --> 03:28:59,640
Speaker 1: you know, having a hand in it. Uh, It's there's

3463
03:28:59,760 --> 03:29:02,920
Speaker 1: there's something quite satisfying about that. I will yeah, I

3464
03:29:03,000 --> 03:29:07,320
Speaker 1: will admit, well, I think that's a pretty good point

3465
03:29:07,400 --> 03:29:09,400
Speaker 1: to close out on today. I don't need to take

3466
03:29:09,480 --> 03:29:11,720
Speaker 1: up too much more of your time right now, Michael.

3467
03:29:11,760 --> 03:29:14,880
Speaker 1: But but as I told people, I'm gonna be I'm

3468
03:29:14,920 --> 03:29:16,959
Speaker 1: gonna be trying to get into some of this because

3469
03:29:16,959 --> 03:29:20,800
Speaker 1: I find it just both fascinating and incredibly hopeful. Um,

3470
03:29:21,200 --> 03:29:25,080
Speaker 1: in a world where it seems like, uh, there are

3471
03:29:25,160 --> 03:29:28,720
Speaker 1: constantly forces conspiring to strip people of their ability to

3472
03:29:28,800 --> 03:29:32,160
Speaker 1: take control of critical aspects of their lives. You and

3473
03:29:32,400 --> 03:29:35,200
Speaker 1: your your colleagues in this are trying to give people

3474
03:29:36,200 --> 03:29:40,880
Speaker 1: opportunities to take some some power back for themselves, and

3475
03:29:40,959 --> 03:29:46,119
Speaker 1: I just think that's it's pretty dope. Thank you so much. Yeah,

3476
03:29:46,240 --> 03:29:48,800
Speaker 1: and see your listeners. If there are people out there

3477
03:29:48,840 --> 03:29:51,320
Speaker 1: who like what we're doing, you want to support the project,

3478
03:29:52,200 --> 03:29:55,880
Speaker 1: please go find somebody who needs your help but doesn't

3479
03:29:55,920 --> 03:29:59,360
Speaker 1: deserve it, and then go help them anyway. Yeah, Yeah,

3480
03:29:59,480 --> 03:30:03,039
Speaker 1: that's always a good thing to do. Um, Michael, anything else,

3481
03:30:03,080 --> 03:30:05,560
Speaker 1: any like a thing else you want to kind of

3482
03:30:05,760 --> 03:30:08,560
Speaker 1: put this is normally this section where people plug websites

3483
03:30:08,680 --> 03:30:10,840
Speaker 1: or projects or anything. You've got anything in particularly you

3484
03:30:10,879 --> 03:30:15,199
Speaker 1: want to throw out there right now. Uh. Sure. We're

3485
03:30:15,280 --> 03:30:17,360
Speaker 1: hoping to do a bunch of big releases in the

3486
03:30:17,760 --> 03:30:22,280
Speaker 1: summer um, so look for those. In the meantime, we're

3487
03:30:22,360 --> 03:30:26,160
Speaker 1: always looking for help, So if you're out there and

3488
03:30:26,360 --> 03:30:30,400
Speaker 1: you'd like to be assisted in the project, uh, please

3489
03:30:30,440 --> 03:30:33,279
Speaker 1: get in touch. There's the contact us page on the website.

3490
03:30:33,600 --> 03:30:35,880
Speaker 1: And by the way, this do not have to be

3491
03:30:35,959 --> 03:30:39,480
Speaker 1: a technical person. We're looking for currently, we're looking for writers.

3492
03:30:40,000 --> 03:30:42,080
Speaker 1: We have a lot of documentation that we need to do.

3493
03:30:42,320 --> 03:30:45,360
Speaker 1: So if you're out there and you have, you know,

3494
03:30:46,320 --> 03:30:51,840
Speaker 1: background in in language, then that would be great. If

3495
03:30:52,080 --> 03:30:55,199
Speaker 1: if you're somebody who feels that you're entirely without skills,

3496
03:30:55,480 --> 03:30:58,880
Speaker 1: please get in touch. We have any number of endless

3497
03:30:58,920 --> 03:31:01,440
Speaker 1: small tasks that just need to be taken care of

3498
03:31:01,480 --> 03:31:04,440
Speaker 1: because we don't have enough people. So if you'd like

3499
03:31:04,560 --> 03:31:07,280
Speaker 1: to participate, we'd love to have you. Please get in

3500
03:31:07,400 --> 03:31:11,600
Speaker 1: touch and in the meantime, keep each other healthy, keep

3501
03:31:11,640 --> 03:31:15,560
Speaker 1: each other. Thank you so much, Michael, thanks so much

3502
03:31:15,600 --> 03:31:29,920
Speaker 1: for having me. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more

3503
03:31:30,000 --> 03:31:32,640
Speaker 1: episodes every week from now until the heat death of

3504
03:31:32,680 --> 03:31:35,440
Speaker 1: the universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of

3505
03:31:35,480 --> 03:31:38,400
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

3506
03:31:38,520 --> 03:31:40,959
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

3507
03:31:41,040 --> 03:31:43,279
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

3508
03:31:43,400 --> 03:31:46,400
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources

3509
03:31:46,440 --> 03:31:49,000
Speaker 1: for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone

3510
03:31:49,040 --> 03:31:51,760
Speaker 1: Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.