Speaker 1: Rube.
Speaker 2: I really don't believe that you need a finance degree
Speaker 2: to be good with money. I think that you need
Speaker 2: about six grade math and someone to teach you, and
Speaker 2: you can pull it off.
Speaker 3: I feel like investing has a branding problem. How so well,
Speaker 3: it sounds like something you need a suit, a briefcase,
Speaker 3: and three computer monitors to do right.
Speaker 4: Well, in reality, most of us just want to know
Speaker 4: if we're making smart decisions with our money exactly.
Speaker 3: So today we're skipping the Wall Street jargon and talking
Speaker 3: about investing in a way that actually makes sense. Welcome
Speaker 3: back to grown Up Stuff, the podcast where we figure
Speaker 3: out all the things you feel like you should know
Speaker 3: by now but maybe don't because I know I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm Leah Palmery and I'm Matt Stillow and I don't either.
Speaker 4: But in previous episodes we've covered retirement accounts, credit cards,
Speaker 4: and budgeting, which if you haven't heard yet, totally go
Speaker 4: back and listen. But today we're talking about investing, but
Speaker 4: not just the basics of it. We're getting into the specifics.
Speaker 4: I think that this is just super important for all
Speaker 4: grown ups financial futures. I started my own personal investment
Speaker 4: journey after reading A Simple Path to Wealth by Jail Collins,
Speaker 4: and it changed my life completely by getting into the
Speaker 4: specifics but not being scary. So we're going to drop
Speaker 4: the jargon but get into exactly what you need to
Speaker 4: do to get your finances in order.
Speaker 3: I love a good how to book, especially one that's
Speaker 3: going to help me increase my network.
Speaker 4: Well, that's exactly why we asked our guest here today,
Speaker 4: Hailey Sachs aka missus Dowd Jones, to join us. She
Speaker 4: is a Zillennial fun finance expert and author of the
Speaker 4: book Future Rich Person, The New Rules for Building Wealth.
Speaker 3: I would like to be a current rich person.
Speaker 5: Me too, But we have to start somewhere.
Speaker 3: Right, I guess, Well, before we get into the specific
Speaker 3: investment vehicles and tools, let's start with some basics.
Speaker 1: So, Hayley, why would you say.
Speaker 3: That investing is an important part of becoming a future
Speaker 3: rich person?
Speaker 2: That's such a great question, Leah, and I love starting
Speaker 2: there because I feel like everyone tells you to invest,
Speaker 2: but no one really tells you why not to invest,
Speaker 2: and it feels sort of scary to invest because it
Speaker 2: feels like you're taking a risk. An analogy that I
Speaker 2: really like to use around investing because there is a
Speaker 2: lot of fear around it. People think that it's unsafe,
Speaker 2: that it's super risky. But if you invest properly, which
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about on this show, in a
Speaker 2: diversified way, it's basically like driving the speed limit.
Speaker 1: So it's the safe way to go.
Speaker 2: And I think that people think that speeding would be
Speaker 2: buying individual stocks, day trading, buying crypto, but that, on
Speaker 2: the other hand, equally dangerous is going below the speed limit.
Speaker 2: Like if you're on a really fast highway and you're
Speaker 2: going ten miles an hour, you're in just as much
Speaker 2: of a precarious situation as someone who's going on undred.
Speaker 1: Miles an hour on that highway.
Speaker 2: You want to just go sixty five or seventy what
Speaker 2: the speed limit is. And so I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people hoard cash, they avoid investing, and they think
Speaker 2: that that is being safe. But I want you to realize,
Speaker 2: like to rethink about how you frame that and think
Speaker 2: about what's safe is actually to go to speed limit,
Speaker 2: which is to invest in a just very diversified, safe way.
Speaker 4: I have some money sitting in my account right now
Speaker 4: that I've been like just invest what are you doing,
Speaker 4: like just put it in an investment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's the mindset shift that you need, Like
Speaker 2: you have to start thinking about it as this is
Speaker 2: the right thing to do, so, Hayley.
Speaker 4: For a lot of us, investing feels like learning a
Speaker 4: foreign language. Stock symbols, financial jargon, market terminology. It can
Speaker 4: all seem sort of abstract and intimidating, but it doesn't
Speaker 4: have to be. With the right translation, these concepts become
Speaker 4: so much more approach. I'm curious to hear. Why does
Speaker 4: the financial world often make investing feel far more complicated
Speaker 4: than it has to be.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, Matt, confusion is super profitable. Like the
Speaker 2: financial services industry is not incentivized at all for you
Speaker 2: to be good with money.
Speaker 1: They make so much.
Speaker 2: Money off of overdraft fees, off of financial services that
Speaker 2: maybe you don't need, that you're getting charged for that
Speaker 2: you don't realize. And the more intimidating that investing feels,
Speaker 2: the more likely you are to pay someone else a
Speaker 2: fee to do it for you or to avoid it altogether,
Speaker 2: and either way the industry wins. So like all this
Speaker 2: jargon nonsense expense ratios and index funds and asset allocation,
Speaker 2: all these words that they use. It's not complex just
Speaker 2: for complexity's sake. It's really just like a mote. And
Speaker 2: the moment that you actually translated into English you realize
Speaker 2: is that most of it is pretty simple. Like for me,
Speaker 2: that was a really big aha moment in my money
Speaker 2: journey was when I was like, Oh, they've completely catfished us,
Speaker 2: Like this is actually not that hard at all, and
Speaker 2: they've made it to seem hard, but like we can
Speaker 2: all totally do this.
Speaker 4: If anyone takes anything away from this conversation, I hope
Speaker 4: to God Haley that it's that there's so many people
Speaker 4: in my life they're like, Oh, I think I'm just
Speaker 4: gonna pay this financial advisor. I think you don't need
Speaker 4: any of that, and all you need is something really simple,
Speaker 4: like reading Haley's book Future Rich Person.
Speaker 2: It has everything in it that you need to build well.
Speaker 2: But I will say, like on my own investing journey,
Speaker 2: which I talk about all the time, that like, if
Speaker 2: I can do this, you can do this. I'm a
Speaker 2: very tight b person. I'm like using my passport to
Speaker 2: get into the bar. The other week I posted about
Speaker 2: me trying to get a real ID and it took
Speaker 2: me like a million times to go because I'm always
Speaker 2: kept forgetting the forms. But it's like, despite the fact
Speaker 2: that maybe I'm not the best at functioning, I am
Speaker 2: a millionaire and it's just becu of automation and because
Speaker 2: I read finance books and because I have controlled my spending.
Speaker 1: It's really is that simple.
Speaker 2: And so I hope that people feel empowered by that
Speaker 2: and you realize that you don't have a chit missing.
Speaker 2: I think we all think that like we are missing
Speaker 2: some sort of special finance like yeah, and it's like
Speaker 2: we have to remember that we are all born the
Speaker 2: same way. Like you were born knowing as much about
Speaker 2: money as warm Buffett or Oprah who's a billionaire, or
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift or you know, like any of these people
Speaker 2: that you think are like so rich and have it
Speaker 2: all together, they were born the same way as you were.
Speaker 2: Because you can maybe can inherit money, but you can't
Speaker 2: inherit financial literacy.
Speaker 1: It's something that we all have to learn.
Speaker 3: I like your analogy about the speed limit, like that
Speaker 3: to me makes sense. So say that I'm somebody who
Speaker 3: has gotten in the car. I've put on my seat belt,
Speaker 3: but I'm still a little bit nervous about starting. So
Speaker 3: before I put my pedal to the medal, what advice
Speaker 3: would you give to that person? It's just like, I'm
Speaker 3: not really quite sure where to start. What should I
Speaker 3: do before I really like take this leap and put
Speaker 3: my hard earned money somewhere.
Speaker 2: So the first thing that you absolutely need to do, Leah,
Speaker 2: is make sure that you have a three to six
Speaker 2: month emergency fund in a high yield savings account. And
Speaker 2: that's because the market moves in cycles. So you never
Speaker 2: want to invest money that you might need in the
Speaker 2: case of an emergency because you might have to pull
Speaker 2: it out and the market will be on an off
Speaker 2: day and you'll have less money than you invested and
Speaker 2: you're going to pull it out and be like, Heley,
Speaker 2: what do you mean? You told me that it was
Speaker 2: safe to invest, and you know it does. Your money
Speaker 2: will make money, but you have to let it sit
Speaker 2: for a long enough time that it will and the
Speaker 2: minimum amount of time is five to seven years. So
Speaker 2: make sure that you have some cash on the side
Speaker 2: because anything that can go wrong will go wrong, and
Speaker 2: you want to make sure you're covered. And then you
Speaker 2: also want to make sure that you don't have high
Speaker 2: interest rate debt, which is any debt really above seven percent,
Speaker 2: because the stock market really returns around eight to ten percent.
Speaker 2: So even if you're investing and you're making money, if
Speaker 2: your credit card is twenty four percent, you're going to
Speaker 2: still be on the sadonic treadmill where your returns are
Speaker 2: never going to outweigh how much you're paying in fees.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think that the best way that this
Speaker 4: was explained to me is You've got a couple of
Speaker 4: different buckets. Right, there's your retirement, which is the longest
Speaker 4: out Right, You've got the most amount of time to
Speaker 4: get a retirement, and then maybe you want to think
Speaker 4: about buying a house, right, maybe that's in the next
Speaker 4: two to three years, and then maybe have something even
Speaker 4: more immediate, like you're saving to go on vacation. So
Speaker 4: the time in the market is really where that comes
Speaker 4: into play. You need the most money to retire, really,
Speaker 4: and so people are like, get in as early as
Speaker 4: you can.
Speaker 3: We've talked in previous episodes about the different types of
Speaker 3: investment accounts, like retirement accounts and brokerage accounts, and those
Speaker 3: are really just different ways your money is treated for
Speaker 3: tax purposes. But today I want to take a step
Speaker 3: back and talk about the thing that's actually inside those accounts.
Speaker 3: There are lots of ways people invest real estate, precious metal,
Speaker 3: even cryptocurrency, but for most people, the stock market is
Speaker 3: really where their investing journey begins. And I think it's
Speaker 3: one of those things everyone has heard of, but maybe
Speaker 3: not everyone really understands it. So can you break it
Speaker 3: down for us? What actually is the stock market and
Speaker 3: what's the simplest way to think about how it works?
Speaker 1: Yes, I absolutely will.
Speaker 2: And one thing that I also say before I get
Speaker 2: into this is it financial confidence follows action. So if
Speaker 2: while you're listening to this you're feeling like, okay, still,
Speaker 2: I can't do this whatever, the key is to force
Speaker 2: yourself to do it anyways, because you're never actually going
Speaker 2: to feel ready this, I'm sure of.
Speaker 1: I've worked with tens of thousands of people on this.
Speaker 2: But you will feel confident after you take the action.
Speaker 2: So it's just like a good thing to keep in
Speaker 2: mind that the confidence will come after you open the
Speaker 2: account and start doing this. And it's normal to feel
Speaker 2: really unsettled at the beginning because your money takes a
Speaker 2: lot of work to make and you don't want to screw.
Speaker 1: It up, and I totally get that.
Speaker 2: But that's why I use the driving analogy because I
Speaker 2: want you guys to actually think that investing is safer
Speaker 2: than not investing, because it is, and that's what's going
Speaker 2: to secure your future forever. Okay, let's talk about the
Speaker 2: stock market. So the stock market is sort of like Spotify.
Speaker 2: You know, Spotify has a bunch of different songs. Stock
Speaker 2: market has a ton of different companies that you can
Speaker 2: buy a little piece of. When you buy a share,
Speaker 2: you're buying like a tiny piece of that company. So
Speaker 2: for example, when I was little, my dad took my piggy.
Speaker 1: Bank and was like, what do you want to invest in?
Speaker 2: And I wanted to invest in Lays and Starbucks because
Speaker 2: I was like a chubby girl who loved chips and frappuccinos.
Speaker 4: You're like, I really believe in the future of these companies.
Speaker 1: I believe in the future of them.
Speaker 2: I am a huge supporter of them, and I thought
Speaker 2: I would get like extra whip on my like Mocha
Speaker 2: frap if I was a shareholder.
Speaker 5: Wrong.
Speaker 2: But that's one way to do it. But with Spotify,
Speaker 2: you can become obsessed with one artist and pray that
Speaker 2: they never flop. Or you could listen to a playlist
Speaker 2: that has the entire top five hundred songs right now.
Speaker 2: Sure that one artist might never have a bad album,
Speaker 2: like you might choose the next Sabrina Carpenter and that's amazing,
Speaker 2: or the next Tailor Swift. But you don't want to
Speaker 2: put all your money just in one artist, where you
Speaker 2: could put your money towards owning the whole playlist, and
Speaker 2: then you're never gonna have to actually guess who's going
Speaker 2: to be famous next, because you're gonna have five hundred
Speaker 2: options that one of them is going to do really well,
Speaker 2: a lot of them are going to do sort of well,
Speaker 2: some of them are going to flop, and it's going
Speaker 2: to even out so that overall you're making money.
Speaker 5: I love that, yep. I love that.
Speaker 4: You're really great analogy.
Speaker 3: Talking in my terms there. But the thing that still
Speaker 3: makes me a little bit nervous is that, especially this year,
Speaker 3: the year of twenty twenty six, I can't go on
Speaker 3: TikTok and scroll on TikTok without hearing it's gonna crash.
Speaker 3: Everything's gonna be bad. We're all gonna lose our money.
Speaker 1: Blah, blah blah.
Speaker 3: So like I do believe you, Haley, because you are
Speaker 3: a very smart person and people say that you know,
Speaker 3: it always goes up. I do believe that, but like
Speaker 3: it does go down sometimes, right, So, like what exactly
Speaker 3: does that mean?
Speaker 2: First of all, you have to realize that the whole
Speaker 2: financial services industry and like financial media, is built on
Speaker 2: fear mongering. It is our Christmas the day that the
Speaker 2: Dow crashes or the market crashes, because you got to
Speaker 2: just put out so many headlines and everyone is so
Speaker 2: anxious and they're clicking, and so just take it with
Speaker 2: a grain of salt because those creators you see on
Speaker 2: TikTok are just trying to get views. They're not really
Speaker 2: speaking from a place of authority, and that's all. You
Speaker 2: also have to be careful about which financial influencers you follow,
Speaker 2: because you want someone who's really measured and really acts
Speaker 2: almost as a.
Speaker 1: Fiduciary towards you.
Speaker 2: And so you seem to also find like safe spaces
Speaker 2: of the internet.
Speaker 4: And a quick side note, a fiduciary is a financial
Speaker 4: professional who is legally required to put your best interests,
Speaker 4: not theirs. That means they're expected to recommend what's best
Speaker 4: for you, not what earns them the biggest commission.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Another thing to think about is that the stock market
Speaker 2: is really the only place where people run out of
Speaker 2: the store the moment that everything is on sale. Any
Speaker 2: other place you'd be like, WHOA, it's on sale, I
Speaker 2: get to buy more. But with the market, people freak out.
Speaker 2: And the other thing you should know is that people
Speaker 2: have been predicting the next market crash basically every year
Speaker 2: since the stock market was invented, and eventually someone is right,
Speaker 2: but it's you know, they throw it out there anyways,
Speaker 2: and no one ever comes back and says, like, WHOA,
Speaker 2: my prediction was wrong. They just keep making new prediction.
Speaker 2: But what history tells us is that crashes are normal
Speaker 2: and recoveries are normal too. The US stock market has
Speaker 2: survived the Great Depression, world Wars, Black Monday, the dot
Speaker 2: com crash, COVID, the two thousand and eight COVID inflation,
Speaker 2: all these things, and yet from nineteen thirty six to
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, there's never been a negative rolling twenty
Speaker 2: year period for the US stock market, not one. And
Speaker 2: think about your favorite pop star, Like every celebrity has
Speaker 2: a flop Era I mean, Taylor had people saying her
Speaker 2: career was over before.
Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Then she literally became the biggest pop star on Earth.
Speaker 2: You know, businesses are similar. You have ups and downs,
Speaker 2: but the market keeps evolving. The new winners replace old ones,
Speaker 2: and so I don't spend my life trying to predict
Speaker 2: the next crash, but I do spend my life making
Speaker 2: sure I'm invited to the recovery. And because the market
Speaker 2: will never reward the person who predicted the best, it
Speaker 2: will reward the person who stayed in the game. I
Speaker 2: also to remember that the market doesn't go up in
Speaker 2: a straight line. It's going to zigzag. But historically, the
Speaker 2: people who got rich weren't the ones who perfectly tied
Speaker 2: every crash. They're just the ones who kept investing while
Speaker 2: everyone else was panicking.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you think about Drake, last year, we
Speaker 3: were laughing at him, and this year we're dancing with him,
Speaker 3: so like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 4: So when COVID happened and the market took a really
Speaker 4: big downturn, I was hanging out with a good friend
Speaker 4: of mine who taught me a lot about finance, and
Speaker 4: he was talking to me about this kind of boom
Speaker 4: bust cycle, and he was like, you know, hey, man,
Speaker 4: I just lost a ton of money in the stock
Speaker 4: market today. But he says it doesn't matter because it's
Speaker 4: on paper. It doesn't become real until I take it out,
Speaker 4: and I'm not retiring today. In fact, he was thirty
Speaker 4: years old at the time. He's like, I'm not retiring
Speaker 4: for like thirty years, and in thirty years, the market
Speaker 4: will most certainly have recovered to the point where I'll
Speaker 4: be able to take out an amount of money that
Speaker 4: I'll need in retirement. Basically, what he was saying is
Speaker 4: you don't need to be checking the stock market every day,
Speaker 4: especially if you're not close to your goal.
Speaker 3: That does bring up a question for me too, of
Speaker 3: like how often should we check to make sure you're
Speaker 3: like on track and doing okay, but not like freaking
Speaker 3: out over Oh I'm fifty dollars dawn today.
Speaker 2: Honestly, way less than you think. And I think it
Speaker 2: also has to do with your own disposition, Like I
Speaker 2: really look quarterly. I have friends who look every day,
Speaker 2: but don't look at your portfolio the way that you
Speaker 2: look at your ex. You know, you don't need to
Speaker 2: be checking it on them every five minutes. You know.
Speaker 2: I would also say I tell people to watch their
Speaker 2: portfolios the way that they watch bramo Oh, where it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's drama, something's happening, but I'm not actually reacting. I'm
Speaker 2: just watching it for entertainment and then moving on my day.
Speaker 2: But you know, if you're investing for retirement or for
Speaker 2: long term wealth, checking it every day is not going
Speaker 2: to make you a better investor.
Speaker 1: It's just going to make you more emotional.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Imagine planting a tree. You wouldn't dig it up every
Speaker 2: morning to see if the roots had grown overnight. You
Speaker 2: would water it, you would give it sunlight, and then
Speaker 2: you would let time do its thing.
Speaker 1: And that's the same thing with investing.
Speaker 2: The more often that people look at their portfolios, the
Speaker 2: more opportunities they have to sort of panic over normal
Speaker 2: market swayings, and that panic can be really expensive. So
Speaker 2: I would just say set it up, automate it, and
Speaker 2: live your life. And this also gives you a lot
Speaker 2: of freedom because I think we all think, oh, in
Speaker 2: order to be good with money, we have to be
Speaker 2: obsessed with our portfolios. We have to become like Gording Gecko,
Speaker 2: get like an old school phone, scream into it by sell, buy, sell,
Speaker 2: and it's like, no, girl, you can actually live your
Speaker 2: damn life. This can be something that is happening fully
Speaker 2: in the background, and you don't have to make it
Speaker 2: your whole personality. It can just be part of how
Speaker 2: you live your life the same way you, you know,
Speaker 2: might order groceries. That doesn't mean that like every day
Speaker 2: you're going on Fresh Direct or whatever and like looking
Speaker 2: at other groceries.
Speaker 1: You're just it's happening once a week.
Speaker 4: So we're a little bit more confident about the stock
Speaker 4: market and going up and maybe we're going to be
Speaker 4: in the market for a little bit longer, so we're
Speaker 4: ready to start investing, right But before we invest I
Speaker 4: think it's a really good idea to talk about investing goals.
Speaker 4: So what are some of the most common goals people
Speaker 4: have for investing and how does that change their strategy
Speaker 4: in terms of what they're investing in.
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned something earlier about timelines, and I love
Speaker 2: that because before you invest even a single dollar, you
Speaker 2: need to talk about your goal. And it really does
Speaker 2: depend on your timeline when you need the money, because
Speaker 2: think about investing like packing for a trip, Like you're
Speaker 2: not going to pack the same suitcase for a weekend
Speaker 2: in Miami as you would for a month in Europe,
Speaker 2: and your money sort of needs different luggage depending on.
Speaker 1: Where it's going.
Speaker 2: So the three most common investing goals that I see
Speaker 2: are retirement, which is usually decades away and so you
Speaker 2: can generally afford to invest for long term growth and
Speaker 2: ride out the ups and downs. The second most common
Speaker 2: investing goal is buying a home. If you're planning to
Speaker 2: buy in the next few years, your strategy should be
Speaker 2: way more conservative because you don't want to market downturn
Speaker 2: cutting your down payment in half before clothes. So that
Speaker 2: might be that you're putting it into a safer vehicle,
Speaker 2: like maybe we're putting in a higled savings account or
Speaker 2: a certificate of deposit, which we can break down to
Speaker 2: these are just like savings accounts that have higher rates
Speaker 2: than one at your bank. It's not going to give
Speaker 2: you the same return as a stock market, but what
Speaker 2: you get in return is security you know that your
Speaker 2: money will be there. And then the third most common
Speaker 2: investing goal is really just general wealth building. You just
Speaker 2: want your money working harder than it would sitting in
Speaker 2: a savings account, and that's a long term investing goal too,
Speaker 2: But that timeline is really the biggest driver of your strategy,
Speaker 2: and money that you might need in two years should
Speaker 2: not be invested in the same way as money that
Speaker 2: you won't touch for thirty I hear the.
Speaker 3: Phrase compound interest a lot too. Can you explain how
Speaker 3: that works exactly?
Speaker 2: Okay, So when we think of compound interest leap, I
Speaker 2: really like to think about Travis Kelsey because before Taylor Swift,
Speaker 2: yes he was one of the tight ends, but the
Speaker 2: interest that the public had in him was sort of
Speaker 2: growing simply at a set rate every year.
Speaker 1: I don't think that it was astronomical.
Speaker 2: But then when he started to date Taylor, the momentum
Speaker 2: created more momentum, and everything exploded for him. His podcast
Speaker 2: with Jason Kelcey became one of the biggest in the world.
Speaker 2: He got one hundred million dollar contract. His Jersey sales
Speaker 2: reportedly jumped four hundred percent after Swift attended one of
Speaker 2: his games. And so this is the same thing that
Speaker 2: happens with your money when you let it compound. So
Speaker 2: like if you invest five hundred dollars a month starting
Speaker 2: at age twenty five, and you earn a ten percent return,
Speaker 2: which is roughly in line with the historical average return
Speaker 2: of the stock market before infleetion. After ten years, you
Speaker 2: would have invested sixty thousand dollars, but your account would
Speaker 2: be worth about one hundred thousand dollars. After twenty years,
Speaker 2: you would have contributed one hundred and twenty thousand dollars,
Speaker 2: but you would have around three hundred and eighty thousand.
Speaker 2: And after forty years, you to put in two hundred
Speaker 2: and forty thousand dollars of your money, but your portfolio
Speaker 2: would be worth two point six million dollars.
Speaker 1: I like that, which is awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I just want to double tap on this
Speaker 4: real quick. Saving five hundred dollars a month for over
Speaker 4: forty years gets you two hundred and forty thousand dollars.
Speaker 4: Now take that same five hundred dollars a month and
Speaker 4: invest it instead, you're at two point six million dollars.
Speaker 4: That gap over two point three million dollars is entirely
Speaker 4: the result of one decision investing. So let's put that
Speaker 4: in some context. At the average US salary about sixty
Speaker 4: five thousand dollars a year before taxes and expenses, you'd
Speaker 4: need another forty years of full time work just to
Speaker 4: close that gap yourself. That's basically an entire second career.
Speaker 4: And who wants to be working until they're eighty. This
Speaker 4: is what people mean when they say they want their
Speaker 4: money to work for them. And this is what Haley
Speaker 4: means when she says that investing is safe versus not
Speaker 4: investing is dangerous. I mean, think about it. Having the
Speaker 4: money set aside in a retirement account will help you
Speaker 4: live out your life and do what you want to
Speaker 4: do when you hit retirement age. And this is what
Speaker 4: we mean when we're talking about the power of compound interest.
Speaker 4: This is just so critical for people to know.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 5: And we're back with more grown up stuff.
Speaker 4: How do adult? We talked a little bit about strategy, right,
Speaker 4: and so you were talking a little bit about maybe
Speaker 4: if you're in the market for longer, you can ride
Speaker 4: out some of the ebbs and flows. If you're trying
Speaker 4: to buy something sooner, like a house, maybe you want
Speaker 4: to be more conservative. So I want to talk a
Speaker 4: little bit about the vehicles that you can use to
Speaker 4: make something a bit more risky or more conservative. So
Speaker 4: would you mind talking to us about the difference between
Speaker 4: stocks and bonds.
Speaker 2: Yes, stocks orce bonds is a great conversation one that
Speaker 2: people should be having more on dates.
Speaker 1: Ooh, absolutely, they're just kidding, don't do that. But you know,
Speaker 1: look at it this way.
Speaker 2: A stock is ownership, So you're buying a tiny piece
Speaker 2: of a company and if it grows, then your little
Speaker 2: piece is going to grow with it. But that's risky,
Speaker 2: right because a company could also tank and then your
Speaker 2: money in that stock could just go away, could disappear.
Speaker 2: But a bond is alone, So that's when you're basically
Speaker 2: lending money to a company or a government and they're
Speaker 2: going to pay you back with interest on a schedule.
Speaker 2: So stocks have higher growth potential, but they also have
Speaker 2: higher volatility, whereas bonds are much steadier and more predictable,
Speaker 2: but they're going to give you lower returns. And so
Speaker 2: this is why as you get older, as you get
Speaker 2: closer to retirement and taking out your money from the market,
Speaker 2: you shift your portfolio towards more bonds because you won't
Speaker 2: have as much ability to withstand volatility. So you want
Speaker 2: lower risk, lower reward, just so you know that you
Speaker 2: can take your money out at a certain point and
Speaker 2: it's going to be what it said it was when
Speaker 2: you lost checked your balance.
Speaker 3: Let's talk a little bit about the risk. What is
Speaker 3: risk tolerance and how does someone figure out their own
Speaker 3: personal risk tolerance? Is there a little calculator? Is there
Speaker 3: a BuzzFeed quiz I can take? How do I figure out,
Speaker 3: like what is my risk tolerance?
Speaker 1: Right now? There should be a BuzzFeed quiz about risk tolerance.
Speaker 1: We need to tell them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but risk tolerance is really like how much volatility
Speaker 2: you can handle without panic selling.
Speaker 1: And I don't really.
Speaker 2: Think that you need to take it that seriously. Like
Speaker 2: I think that financial confidence follows financial action. So even
Speaker 2: if when you're listening to this, you're like, well, I'm
Speaker 2: very risk averse and I want to keep everything in
Speaker 2: a high held savings account and I don't want to invest,
Speaker 2: Like let's ignore that your risk tolerance is zero and
Speaker 2: put it in the market anyways, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But it's really like a mix of your timeline, so
Speaker 2: how quickly you're going to need the money with your income,
Speaker 2: and honestly, like your personality, so like if a twenty
Speaker 2: percent market drop is going to make you pull your
Speaker 2: money out then that gives you information about how you
Speaker 2: should be invested. That being said, we need to go
Speaker 2: back to what we said earlier that the stock market
Speaker 2: is the only place where when things go on sale,
Speaker 2: people don't buy more. They get scared instead. So my
Speaker 2: goal would be, instead of freaking out and like indulging
Speaker 2: and having a low risk tolerance, to educate yourself financially
Speaker 2: around how risk reaps reward and how to take risk
Speaker 2: in a way that's smart and going to help you
Speaker 2: build wealth.
Speaker 4: I always come back to your timeline. My dad was
Speaker 4: incredibly conservative with his investments for most of his life,
Speaker 4: and now that he's retired, one of the things he
Speaker 4: says is, I wish I had invested more in stocks earlier.
Speaker 4: So looking back, he realizes now that he had decades
Speaker 4: for that money to grow and grow much more considerably
Speaker 4: than it does in bonds. I mean, this is a
Speaker 4: good reminder that your investment strategy should change over time.
Speaker 4: If you're young and retirement is like thirty to forty
Speaker 4: years away, you have far more time to write out
Speaker 4: the markets ups and downs. But as you get closer
Speaker 4: to big financial goals like buying a home or retiring,
Speaker 4: it often makes more sense to shift towards more conservative
Speaker 4: investments like bonds. Your timeline is one of the biggest
Speaker 4: factors in deciding how much risk you want to take.
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. I love that.
Speaker 3: I do want to talk a little more about investment vehicles,
Speaker 3: just to have a little bit better understanding. I know
Speaker 3: there's ETFs and index funds and mutual funds and target
Speaker 3: retirement funds. This is a lie of words, So help
Speaker 3: me break that down, like what is the difference and
Speaker 3: actually does it matter?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a great point lea.
Speaker 2: So I would think about Taylor Swift's catalog when you
Speaker 2: think about ETFs and index funds, okay, because they're basically
Speaker 2: the same album in two different formats, Like you know
Speaker 2: how she'll release like on vinyl and streaming, so it'll
Speaker 2: be the same songs, the same track list, but there's
Speaker 2: just a different way of accessing it.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So an ETF trades all day like a stock, but
Speaker 2: an index fund only prices once a day after the
Speaker 2: market closes, but they're tracking the exact same basket of
Speaker 2: stocks underneath.
Speaker 1: Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 3: So it's just sort of like your preference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly like it's like, do you want one that
Speaker 2: you can trade during the day and it's moving in
Speaker 2: price with the market, or one where there's just one
Speaker 2: price or the market closes and that's good too. And
Speaker 2: then a mutual fund. A mutual fund is like if
Speaker 2: you're paying a producer to hand pick which songs go
Speaker 2: on the album, okay, and try to make it out
Speaker 2: sell everyone else's. But the issue is is that most
Speaker 2: of the time what they pick is not going to
Speaker 2: actually be just owning the whole discography, So you're paying
Speaker 2: a much higher fee for someone to guess okay.
Speaker 1: So that's what people don't realize.
Speaker 2: What mutual funds is that people are choosing what's in them,
Speaker 2: but you're really paying for a skill that usually doesn't
Speaker 2: pay off. It's very hard to just beat average returns
Speaker 2: of the market. And by the way, you don't need
Speaker 2: to always say you want to have an above average life,
Speaker 2: above average vacations and family and relationships and all these things.
Speaker 2: But take an average portfolio, get really comfortable with that
Speaker 2: eight to ten percent, don't look for more.
Speaker 1: That's where you get in trouble.
Speaker 2: And then a target retire fun is sort of like
Speaker 2: the tour set list that changes as you get older.
Speaker 2: So like say you're going to retire in twenty thirty five,
Speaker 2: so you'll put that in. You'll buy a twenty thirty
Speaker 2: five target date fund, and it will create a basket
Speaker 2: of stocks and bonds with a risk profile that matches
Speaker 2: that time HORIZONKA. So as you get closer to twenty
Speaker 2: thirty five, it's going to switch more into bonds and
Speaker 2: be lower risk because you're getting sooner to taking your
Speaker 2: money out, and they don't want you to have less
Speaker 2: money in the target retirement fund than you'd signed up for.
Speaker 2: And it's sort of like when you go to concerts
Speaker 2: as you get older. I feel like you have the
Speaker 2: more upbeat, high energy stuff early on, and then as
Speaker 2: you get older, you go to maybe like more mellow concerts.
Speaker 3: I'm not standing the whole time, yes, correct, exactly, You're.
Speaker 1: Going to sit down.
Speaker 2: So this is a fund that rebalances itself so you
Speaker 2: don't have to think about it.
Speaker 3: Oh, we love that. We love a setlist that has
Speaker 3: like some jams and then like some like nice mellow,
Speaker 3: like really singing songs.
Speaker 1: I love this.
Speaker 4: Yes, So talking about sort of the difference between index funds,
Speaker 4: and mutual funds. So index funds are passively managed and
Speaker 4: mutual funds are actively managed by a team of people
Speaker 4: that are picking. You start to think about like how
Speaker 4: much those funds those vehicles cost, right, And so this
Speaker 4: brings us to this thing called expense ratios, and so
Speaker 4: can you talk to us a little bit about expense ratios,
Speaker 4: how those work, and how they might lead us to
Speaker 4: picking the right investment for us.
Speaker 2: Expense ratios are so important. I know that we said that,
Speaker 2: like a lot of the jargon is sort of BS,
Speaker 2: but this is a really important one because this is
Speaker 2: your fee. So this is basically the toll that you
Speaker 2: pay every year to hold an index fund or an ETF, and.
Speaker 1: They're really good at hiding them.
Speaker 2: Like it's not like when you subscribe to Spotify you
Speaker 2: get a big charge and it hits your account. Your
Speaker 2: expense ratio basically just get skimmed off of your returns
Speaker 2: before you ever see them. So it's sort of like
Speaker 2: ticket Master service fee. You're not going to clock it
Speaker 2: in the moment, but you sort of know it's being taken,
Speaker 2: and it matters so much because having a point zero
Speaker 2: three percent expense ratio versus one percent. It might sound
Speaker 2: like nothing like arounding error, but this is charging you
Speaker 2: every year on your whole balance for as long as
Speaker 2: you hold the fund, So it's not a one time fee.
Speaker 2: It's basically a subscription that you're paying for owning it,
Speaker 2: and it will compound against you the same way that
Speaker 2: interest can compound for you. So for thirty years, that
Speaker 2: like basically nothing different, could cost you tens of hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars, and that's money that should have
Speaker 2: been compounding in your account instead of someone else's. And
Speaker 2: the trap is really that a higher expense ratio doesn't
Speaker 2: necessarily even buy you a better outcome, like a lot
Speaker 2: of expensive actively managed funds don't outperform the cheap index
Speaker 2: funds that are sitting right next to it. You're just
Speaker 2: paying for a fund manager's guests. So it's like paying
Speaker 2: premium concert level prices for a cover band, Like you're
Speaker 2: getting the same songs, but it's a worse deal. So
Speaker 2: I always say look for expense ratios under er point
Speaker 2: two percent, and anything that is towards one percent like above,
Speaker 2: that needs a really good reason to justify what it's
Speaker 2: taking from your future self every year. And I will say,
Speaker 2: what's really interesting is that there are funds that to
Speaker 2: track the same basket of stocks with different expense ratios.
Speaker 2: So also just by simply googling what a fund's expense
Speaker 2: ratio is, you might be able to find that same investment.
Speaker 2: Say you want to invest in like a tech ETF,
Speaker 2: you might be able to find that same group of
Speaker 2: stocks in a ETF for less than the ETF that
Speaker 2: you're looking at.
Speaker 4: I think it's really important to kind of do that
Speaker 4: research and find the lowest expense ratio fund that you can.
Speaker 2: Totally like for tracking the s and P five hundred,
Speaker 2: there's an index fund called SPHY that has a point zero.
Speaker 1: Nine percent expense ratio.
Speaker 2: But for that same tracking of the s APPI hundred,
Speaker 2: Fidelity has a mutual fund that will charge you point
Speaker 2: zero one five ooh okay.
Speaker 5: And again over a lifetime.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so much.
Speaker 2: So it's like getting the same dress as another girl.
Speaker 2: One girl got it during a sale and the other
Speaker 2: one paid like Poshmark, and the other one got it
Speaker 2: just straight up. It's the same dress, but you're paying
Speaker 2: different prices just because of where you bought it, not
Speaker 2: what it is.
Speaker 4: And people will notice that those target retirement funds you mentioned, Haley,
Speaker 4: they'll have generally a higher expense ratio because essentially it's
Speaker 4: doing the work of reallocating your investments for you over time.
Speaker 4: And so that's why the idea of just like buying
Speaker 4: some of the target retirement fund forgetting about if your
Speaker 4: life sounds really nice. It's really really easy for you
Speaker 4: to reallocate your own portfolio over time, and you could
Speaker 4: save on those expense ratios.
Speaker 1: But that's just my thought definitely.
Speaker 3: So Okay, I'm ready to go. I feel a lot better.
Speaker 3: I like your advice too, of like learning while you're
Speaker 3: going kind of thing, because I do think you're logging
Speaker 3: into fidelity and it's making a little more sense. But
Speaker 3: for you, Hayley, what exactly does a well balanced investment
Speaker 3: portfolio actually look like? In your opinion?
Speaker 2: Okay, So the first thing I would do if you
Speaker 2: were starting investing and you want a well balanced portfolio
Speaker 2: is I would max out my tax advantaged accounts first
Speaker 2: and foremost. So that could be your wrath IRA, your
Speaker 2: four oh one K, your IRA. Maybe you're self employed,
Speaker 2: you have a step IRA, but it's really important to
Speaker 2: look to those accounts first because uncle Sam sucks and
Speaker 2: you want to avoid him taking your profits at any cost.
Speaker 2: But I think that a well bounced portfolio to me
Speaker 2: really just means diversification and keeping it really simple. Like
Speaker 2: I really recommend owning like two to three index funds,
Speaker 2: keeping it super simple, and within those five you'll have diversification,
Speaker 2: automating it being really consistent. So like you go into
Speaker 2: your Fidelity or your Vanguard and you set up an
Speaker 2: automated transfer and buy every single month. And by the way,
Speaker 2: this might sound a little bit jargony or like you
Speaker 2: might have that moment of fear because you don't have
Speaker 2: the financial confidence yet because you haven't taken action as
Speaker 2: we talked about.
Speaker 1: And this gives you pause and you feel like I
Speaker 1: can't do that.
Speaker 2: This is actually a really great place to use the
Speaker 2: internet because I think that you could easily find a
Speaker 2: video where someone is showing you how to set up
Speaker 2: this automated recurring investment, and it would, you know, really
Speaker 2: just simplify it for you.
Speaker 1: So like, use the tools that you have on hand.
Speaker 2: But I would say a mix of broad US stocks,
Speaker 2: some international stocks, and then depending on your age, some
Speaker 2: bonds in there to help smooth out the ride, and
Speaker 2: then as you get closer to retirement or another big goal,
Speaker 2: you might want to add more bonds in because the
Speaker 2: goal will shift from growing your money to preserving it.
Speaker 1: And then my other thing with.
Speaker 2: A well bounced portfolio is just what we talked about,
Speaker 2: which is having low fees, because that's something that you
Speaker 2: really can control as an investor, and you want your
Speaker 2: dollars to be compounding for you versus for someone else.
Speaker 2: My advice is, don't build the most exciting portfolio. Keep
Speaker 2: it really simple, two to three index funds, ones that
Speaker 2: you can have for thirty plus years, and just consistently
Speaker 2: buy them. That's the biggest thing. It's not about picking
Speaker 2: a winner. It's just about being in the game for
Speaker 2: a long time.
Speaker 4: The sageist advice. And thank you so much for that, Hailey. Okay,
Speaker 4: so we've followed Haley's Future Rich Person playbook. We are
Speaker 4: super invested across our accounts at the risk tolerance and
Speaker 4: the expense ratio that we like. But the market picks
Speaker 4: this day that everything has closed to crash.
Speaker 5: So sell or hold on for dear life? Haley? What
Speaker 5: do we do well?
Speaker 1: We hold on for dear life.
Speaker 2: We hoddle selling during a crash is like getting bangs
Speaker 2: during a breakup.
Speaker 1: Like it might feel like action, but it is not
Speaker 1: with them, It is not with.
Speaker 3: The We're not reinventing. We're not reinventing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not. Lea's been there, Lea's cut those banks.
Speaker 1: She knows it.
Speaker 2: Well, they're grown out now and we are thriving, Leah,
Speaker 2: grow our banks out, which is great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so do not panic. Sell.
Speaker 2: Volatility is the fee that you pay forgetting to grow
Speaker 2: your money in the market.
Speaker 1: So get used to it and lock the hell in.
Speaker 1: Buy more.
Speaker 2: Millionaires are made in recessions. That's when everything is on sale.
Speaker 2: You can buy really valuable things, really valuable index funds,
Speaker 2: for less money.
Speaker 1: Like that's an amazing opportunity.
Speaker 4: This is why people say buy the dip in the
Speaker 4: in the stock markets on sale when it crashes totally.
Speaker 2: And like, remember if the stock market really really crashed,
Speaker 2: like if all five hundred companies and US five hundred,
Speaker 2: the top five hundred companies in America went under, we
Speaker 2: would have such a bigger problem than your portfolio, Like
Speaker 2: we would literally be an armageddon.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so just know, like you're a good girl, Okay,
Speaker 1: You're good.
Speaker 4: You have to say market fails, everything fails.
Speaker 3: Well talking about armageddon, because it does feel like every
Speaker 3: day we are hurtling towards that. Sometimes when we talk
Speaker 3: about a specific topic, which is AI, And so I
Speaker 3: did want to get your thoughts on how AI and
Speaker 3: technology might change the way that people invest. What is
Speaker 3: your sort of take on that?
Speaker 2: You know, I think that we're in a very interesting
Speaker 2: moment with AI because the way that I really look
Speaker 2: at it is very personally like, I think that everyone
Speaker 2: has a different risk tolerance, be GI risk tolerance. With
Speaker 2: AI having access to their data. You might be someone
Speaker 2: who really doesn't care and will upload everything and tell
Speaker 2: AI everything and then you're going to get really quick
Speaker 2: answers that are really helpful. But you also might be
Speaker 2: someone who doesn't see value in that and doesn't want
Speaker 2: to do that, And so I think it's not figuring
Speaker 2: out where land there.
Speaker 1: I really think AI is amazing.
Speaker 2: For budgeting and remember, in order to invest, which is
Speaker 2: how you grow wealth and get financial freedom, you do
Speaker 2: have to spend less than you make, and that really
Speaker 2: does start from like understanding your expenses and making sure
Speaker 2: that you are doing that. And so I think AI
Speaker 2: is amazing for that. Use case like showing it what
Speaker 2: you're spending. It can tell you you know which subscriptions
Speaker 2: to cancel, which ones you're getting value from, Like I
Speaker 2: love it for budgeting, But I think that I would
Speaker 2: be very careful in asking AI what's stalked to buy,
Speaker 2: because if CHADGBT could consistently predict the market, we would
Speaker 2: all be retired. I think that the edge is not
Speaker 2: getting AI to make your decisions. It's about using AI
Speaker 2: to understand your decisions and your finances more and use
Speaker 2: it to help you negotiate a higher salary, like, use
Speaker 2: it to practice that conversation with your boss. Use it
Speaker 2: to start a business, use it to automate your finances.
Speaker 2: Use it financially literate like that's great. Use it as
Speaker 2: your judgment free rich friend. Ask it every money question
Speaker 2: that you've been embarrassed to ask. But I think that's
Speaker 2: a much better use of it than asking it like
Speaker 2: what's the next meme stock?
Speaker 3: Okay, before we wrap this up, i'd love for you
Speaker 3: to give us a pragmatic step by step over you
Speaker 3: to kind of sum up the things that we talked
Speaker 3: about today.
Speaker 2: So the first thing that you're going to do is
Speaker 2: open a brokerage account. And yes, they are going to
Speaker 2: ask you your mother's made a name. They are going
Speaker 2: to want your social Security number. This is normal. Don't worry.
Speaker 2: You're going to open an account exciting. This will take
Speaker 2: you five minutes max. And it's going to ask you
Speaker 2: what account type you want. I would start with the
Speaker 2: retirement accounts, so wroth ira, but make sure that you're
Speaker 2: under the income limit. If you're over the income liment,
Speaker 2: you could do a backdoor wrath iray, but it's a
Speaker 2: little bit more complicated.
Speaker 4: And just because we love to get complicated here. Roth
Speaker 4: contribution limits are based on your income and your tax
Speaker 4: filing status. There's an annual cap on how much you're
Speaker 4: allowed to put in, and it's a bit higher if
Speaker 4: you're fifty year older. But whether you can contribute the
Speaker 4: full amount depends on how much you earn. Below a
Speaker 4: certain income, you're good to contribute the max, but once
Speaker 4: you cross that threshold, your limit starts phasing down, and
Speaker 4: past the highest threshold, you're not able to contribute directly
Speaker 4: at all. Those thresholds are different depending on whether you're
Speaker 4: single or married filing jointly, and because these numbers can
Speaker 4: shift year to year. It's super important to check your
Speaker 4: gross income for the year before you make a direct contribution. Now,
Speaker 4: if you're over that income limit, you're not totally out
Speaker 4: of luck. There's a work around people call the backdoor
Speaker 4: wroth Here's how it works. You contribute money to a
Speaker 4: traditional IRA, which has no income limits, and then you
Speaker 4: convert that traditional IRA into a roth IRA inside of
Speaker 4: your investment account. Since there's no income cap on conversions
Speaker 4: only on direct contributions, this lets high earn get money
Speaker 4: into a row anyway. Now, this is completely legal, commonly
Speaker 4: use strategy, but the paperwork can get messy, especially if
Speaker 4: you already have other traditional IRA money sitting around in
Speaker 4: that account. So this is one that's worth talking to
Speaker 4: a tax professional before you do it yourself.
Speaker 3: Interesting, So Haley keep going, what's next.
Speaker 2: You could invest your health savings account, you could open
Speaker 2: a regular wrath IRA, but those are all really good options.
Speaker 2: Then what you're going to do is transfer money into
Speaker 2: that brokerage account. So I feel like a lot of
Speaker 2: people have money sitting in their checking account or at
Speaker 2: their bank that they just stare at and they know
Speaker 2: they should do something with. This is your moment you're
Speaker 2: going to move it to your brokerage account. But remember
Speaker 2: that is not investing. Simply moving the money over, it's
Speaker 2: not invested. In order to actually invest the money in
Speaker 2: your brokerage account, you have to put in a trade.
Speaker 2: So then you go to the little bar in your
Speaker 2: brokerage that says what do you want to buy? And
Speaker 2: you could put in any index fund, put in VOO,
Speaker 2: and then say you've a thousand dollars in your account,
Speaker 2: you could buy one thousand dollars of VOO and that's
Speaker 2: great because you're going to get access to a lot
Speaker 2: of different companies and you'll be diversified.
Speaker 3: Voo is an exchange traded fund or ETF that tracks
Speaker 3: the S and P five hundred, giving you broad exposure
Speaker 3: to five hundred of America's largest companies. It's known for
Speaker 3: its low fees and can be bought through nearly any
Speaker 3: brokerage account.
Speaker 2: But the most important thing is to set up automated
Speaker 2: transfers and buys to the investment account. Because I promise
Speaker 2: you're going to have like one day where you have
Speaker 2: a lot of energy for this, and it's probably the
Speaker 2: same thing with any grown up stuff that we do
Speaker 2: that we have like one day where we feel like
Speaker 2: we're completely on top of the world and that we
Speaker 2: want to do everything, and then the next day that
Speaker 2: energy really falters. Use automation, that's the best tool that
Speaker 2: you have to just make this really fool proof.
Speaker 3: I think I could handle that. So thank you, Hailey,
Speaker 3: Thank you Leah, thank you for breaking that down. I'm
Speaker 3: going to log into my account now and get some
Speaker 3: money going.
Speaker 1: So there you.
Speaker 5: Go, perfect.
Speaker 4: And lastly, before we go, please let the people know
Speaker 4: where they can find out about you and your work.
Speaker 2: Well, my book Future Rich Person is out now, and
Speaker 2: I do think that it is such a great idea
Speaker 2: to get a finance book, Like if you're interested in
Speaker 2: this and you could listen to mine or you know,
Speaker 2: follow missus dow Jones. I put up daily videos with
Speaker 2: financial advice. I have a newsletter which you can find
Speaker 2: on my website missusdow Jones dot com. But you know,
Speaker 2: I'm just out here helping you stay rich. So that's
Speaker 2: something you're interested in, come find me very much.
Speaker 3: So thank you for your service, Haley. We appreciate it
Speaker 3: very much and we'll look forward to seeing you on
Speaker 3: the yacht in the future.
Speaker 1: Oh well, you'll be there with me, girl.
Speaker 3: You know it.
Speaker 4: All right, Leah, Well check back in on our future
Speaker 4: rich selves and maybe browse some yachts in the meantime.
Speaker 3: I mean, you never know. I've always got my eye
Speaker 3: on a yacht. But I think for right now, I'll
Speaker 3: just be happy to sit back and watch my money
Speaker 3: grow so that I can retire comfortably one day.
Speaker 4: Okay, but only if we can keep this podcast going.
Speaker 4: No retiring from the podcast. No matter how rich you get.
Speaker 3: We can broadcast from a yacht.
Speaker 4: So you got it, Matt Amen.
Speaker 3: I'm always ready to learn, and this episode was no different.
Speaker 3: So thank you so much again to Hailey Sachs.
Speaker 4: And if a recent medical bill has you feeling like
Speaker 4: you're about to drain your IRA, join us again in
Speaker 4: two weeks when we'll dig into deductibles, billing codes, out
Speaker 4: of pocket costs, and how negotiation can save you a
Speaker 4: fortune on your next medical bill.
Speaker 3: I am ready for my refund check.
Speaker 4: This is a production of Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia.
Speaker 5: I'm Matt still.
Speaker 3: Though I'm Leah Palmery. This episode was produced by Pamela Lawrence.
Speaker 3: Our post producer is Sierra Spreen, with additional engineering by
Speaker 3: Mac Wuido
Speaker 4: And a special thanks to our team at Ruby Studio,
Speaker 4: including Emma Dylan, Ethan Chixell, James Foster, Deborah Garrett, Sierra
Speaker 4: kaiser Lydia Kim Kelly, Kyle Matt Ramano, Regiswan Krasnov, Sam Timmerman,
Speaker 4: Celia Verplue, Harper Waine, Sarah You and mister Andy Kelly