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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal.

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Speaker 2: Hell that for me. I'm a man, I'm for it.

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Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

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Speaker 2: be happy. You want to be happy for a date?

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Speaker 2: Ato steak? Is that woo whoom?

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Speaker 1: And then and tye.

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Speaker 2: Bye byes.

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Speaker 3: Well, welcome back to the show. My name is ty Hildenbrandt.

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Speaker 3: Dan Rubens not with me today, he is visiting family

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Speaker 3: out in California. So in his stead, I've got one

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Speaker 3: of our favorite friends to bring on and chat with

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Speaker 3: here momentarily about all things college football business. Give us

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Speaker 3: a bit of an update, let you know where things stand.

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Speaker 3: Of course, you can always go on out for Ballers

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Speaker 3: dot com if you want this episode, all our episodes

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Speaker 3: without the ads. If you want bonus content, access to

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Speaker 3: the discord, so on and so forth, that is v

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Speaker 3: E R B A L L e r s dot com.

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Speaker 3: If that is not your thing, I promise it's okay,

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Speaker 3: But please do hit follower subscribes that you don't miss

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Speaker 3: any of our episodes, like the wonderful content we are

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Speaker 3: about to present to you today. Matt Brown from Extra

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Speaker 3: Points with Matt Brown joins me. Now, I was trying

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Speaker 3: to think Matt when the last time was that we

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Speaker 3: had you on, But we generally do this like at

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Speaker 3: least once a year where we have a little like

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Speaker 3: roundtable and talk through where things stand on the business

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Speaker 3: side with college athletics.

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Speaker 1: Sir. So it's great to have you back. How are

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Speaker 1: you listen?

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Speaker 2: It's great to be back. I was thinking about that too.

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Speaker 2: It might have been about a year, and I feel

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Speaker 2: like I am maybe the platonic ideal of an off

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Speaker 2: season podcast guest. You know, not somebody who's necessarily a

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Speaker 2: ball knower. But if you want to talk about the

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Speaker 2: video game, if you want to talk about everything else

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Speaker 2: that's been going on that did you really have paying

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Speaker 2: attention to you because you're watching actual football. I'm your guy.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to be back.

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Speaker 1: I think the ballnoer thing is a bunch of bs.

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Speaker 3: Personally, I just think it's something that people say to

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Speaker 3: make themselves feel validated. But you you know about as

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Speaker 3: much as anybody, certainly with the on field stuff. But

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Speaker 3: in addition, and I would say far beyond, when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the business side of things, which love it

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Speaker 3: or hate it has obviously become much more of a

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Speaker 3: storyline for us here as college football fans.

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Speaker 1: Over the last couple of years.

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Speaker 3: Usually when I go into an interview like this, I've

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Speaker 3: got a bunch of bullet points, things that I want

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Speaker 3: to hit talking points, have got an agenda that I

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Speaker 3: want to follow. I didn't do that today, because you're

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Speaker 3: the one down in the trenches doing all the dirty

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Speaker 3: work trying to figure out what is going on. I

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Speaker 3: thought maybe we could start there with what is of

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Speaker 3: note to you? What should be of note to our

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Speaker 3: audience with respect to college football, COMMA LLC, you know,

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Speaker 3: the business.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the off season stories that is

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Speaker 2: most interesting to me is what athletic departments are going

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Speaker 2: to do with their the twenty ish million dollars that

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Speaker 2: they're allowed to directly distribute to athletes as part of

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Speaker 2: this house settlement. We commonly refer to this as revenue sharing,

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Speaker 2: although I don't think that's exactly what this is, because

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Speaker 2: schools can share money even if they're not really bringing

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Speaker 2: in any revenue. But if you're opting in, you can

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Speaker 2: have up to twenty point four twenty point five ish

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Speaker 2: million bucks that you can directly pay, but that has

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Speaker 2: to go to your entire athletic department. You're not going

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Speaker 2: to put the whole thing in football, and even a

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Speaker 2: school like Georgia say we're going to allocate some to

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Speaker 2: men's basketball, women's basketball and everything. And I was thinking

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Speaker 2: about this before this conversation. I think a school like

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Speaker 2: Penn State is actually a pretty fascinating case study for

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Speaker 2: how you distribute this, because obviously football is the most

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Speaker 2: important thing.

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Speaker 4: You're going to have to.

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Speaker 2: Have share north of ten million dollars just to kind

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Speaker 2: of get in the door if you want to be

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Speaker 2: a college football playoff contending caliber program. But you also

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Speaker 2: are the now the defending national champions in collegiate wrestling,

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Speaker 2: you have an outstanding men's hockey program, you have your

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Speaker 2: competitive and women's ball ball, and you're also I don't

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Speaker 2: say this to be disrespectful, like that's not really a

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Speaker 2: basketball school. Really State men's people, people forget this. Penn

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Speaker 2: State men's basketball not really a thing, Baseball even less

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Speaker 2: of a thing. Is this an example where maybe you

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Speaker 2: go a little bit more on football and you go

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Speaker 2: the bare minimum you can get away with for basketball

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Speaker 2: to spread things around a little bit. That's going to

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Speaker 2: look different at Tech than compared to Texas Tech, compared

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Speaker 2: to Ohio State, Notre Dame has a lot of different

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Speaker 2: obligations to spread things around. I don't I don't know

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Speaker 2: what the what the the best solution is or to

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Speaker 2: what extent people can can can go outside the cap

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Speaker 2: through marketing money, and most schools are pretty reticent to

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Speaker 2: talk about what they're doing in public. Right now, big surprise,

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Speaker 2: right this is the kind of thing you should figure

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Speaker 2: out more from talking to agents, from talking to ads,

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Speaker 2: when you turn off your phone and try to kind

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Speaker 2: of guesstimate where things are going to me. I think

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Speaker 2: that's very interesting, and there may be some potential ways

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Speaker 2: at the mid major level to moneyball, not just college

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Speaker 2: fotball roster building, but I think at letic department roster

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Speaker 2: building in a new way.

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Speaker 3: Let me take a step back. You're talking about twenty

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Speaker 3: million dollars talking about a house settlement. I know we

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Speaker 3: have referred to that time and again on this show,

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Speaker 3: specifically on these types of episodes that we have done

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Speaker 3: with you. But this is now going to be a thing,

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Speaker 3: as you said, revenue sharing, however you want to describe it.

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Speaker 3: It is very much coming to college football in short order.

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Speaker 3: How did we get here maybe from where we were

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Speaker 3: when we last had this conversation.

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Speaker 2: A good question, So let me let me, let me

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Speaker 2: try to zoom out, because I don't blame anybody for

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Speaker 2: their eyes starting to glaze over a little bit whenever

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Speaker 2: someone says antitrust law. But right, last couple of years,

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Speaker 2: we had a world where athletes could make money for

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Speaker 2: their nil And for those of you that are listening

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Speaker 2: just on like on Spotify and making air quotes right

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Speaker 2: now with my think.

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Speaker 3: Non visual medium, yep, you can watch out on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: You can watch out on YouTube if you're interested in

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Speaker 3: seeing Matt's wonderful hairline.

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Speaker 2: And I ll yeah, right, So you could make money

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Speaker 2: as an athlete for a marketing deal. I did a

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Speaker 2: couple of these. You know, the local businesses throughout the

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Speaker 2: country have done a couple of these to pay athletes

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Speaker 2: for doing marketing. I mean, you can get money from

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Speaker 2: a collective, or from a donor group, or from somebody

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Speaker 2: else that would be what we would consider a salary.

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Speaker 2: Right this is this is your talent acquisition fee or

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Speaker 2: your talent retention fee. And that wasn't meaningfully regulated by.

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Speaker 4: The NC DOUBLEA or anybody else.

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Speaker 2: And so that way you could have a payroll of

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Speaker 2: near twenty million dollars if you're Ohio State football or

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Speaker 2: you know twelve thirteen, fourteen sixteen for many many programs

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Speaker 2: last year. Then there was a big lawsuit that was

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Speaker 2: so are there's several lawsuits that were consolidated together House,

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Speaker 2: the nc double A named after Grant House, who was

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Speaker 2: a swimmer, as there Arizona State, for a bunch of

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Speaker 2: folks that were there were athletes that didn't get take

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Speaker 2: advantage of nil and were wanted to suit for past

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Speaker 2: damages for being held out from economic benefits. And as

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Speaker 2: this had gone to trial, the NCAA probably would have

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Speaker 2: lost and probably would have lost eleventy billion dollars just

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Speaker 2: a hilariously, I mean it's definitely billions. With the b

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Speaker 2: would have bankrupted the entire everything. So to avoid losing everything,

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Speaker 2: the power conferences in the NCAA, which for a settlement

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Speaker 2: settlement that is likely but not certain, likely to be

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Speaker 2: approved in the coming weeks in early to mid April.

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Speaker 2: In this settlement, which you might might see refer to

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Speaker 2: as the House settlement, institutes roster limits. So instead of

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Speaker 2: having eighty five scholarships and one hundred and twenty you

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Speaker 2: know or so folks on your roster. You now have

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Speaker 2: one hundred and five roster spots, and you could give

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Speaker 2: scholarships to everybody if you want, and require schools to

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Speaker 2: pay back damages for people that missed out on their

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Speaker 2: NIL rates before. And then now more importantly allows schools

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Speaker 2: to directly pay athletes for the first time. So what

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Speaker 2: you'll hear about would be a school like Ohio State

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Speaker 2: saying I'm going to buy the NIL rights for this linebacker,

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Speaker 2: and I went to hypothetically pay this linebacker two hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars a year. I can use his

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Speaker 2: name image of likeness to build lords and radio ads,

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Speaker 2: and if he transfers, the agreement is nulling money. And

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Speaker 2: schools now have a little over twenty million dollars to

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Speaker 2: distribute among their whole athletic department, and now that its

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Speaker 2: can still make money outside of that. Not to get

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Speaker 2: too far in the weeds, but you're not supposed to

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Speaker 2: use that money as inducements. It's going to be verified

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Speaker 2: by a third party to make sure no one's getting

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Speaker 2: one hundred grand to sign one autograph. How well that

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Speaker 2: can be enforced or legally enforced. Who knows, laws don't

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Speaker 2: matter anymore? We don't really know, but that's the cap

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Speaker 2: number that we're working with. So rather than the money

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Speaker 2: going through when you and I first started talking on

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Speaker 2: the show, used to go through McDonald's backs, right, we

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Speaker 2: would go through Bagman. Then it would be money laundered

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Speaker 2: through charities and collecteds. Now, for the first time, it's

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Speaker 2: going to come directly from Ohio State.

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Speaker 3: It's a bit of a paradigm shift, especially that it

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Speaker 3: feels like we have gotten here so quickly. It feels

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Speaker 3: like nil just got here and now suddenly we're going

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Speaker 3: to be talking about schools paying players direct, which, of

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Speaker 3: course raises a whole bunch of questions, not the least

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Speaker 3: of which is the whole are they employees? Are they

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Speaker 3: not employees? Conversation, which maybe we can get to later.

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Speaker 3: But I'm curious, since I know you talked to a

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Speaker 3: bunch of ads, obviously people considering the financial ramifications of this,

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Speaker 3: what have you seen, what have you heard with respect

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Speaker 3: to the different strategies, the different ways that they're planning

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Speaker 3: to use this money. I mean, you use Penn State

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Speaker 3: as a case study, I guess, And how maybe they

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Speaker 3: could a lot funds towards the more important revenue generating

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Speaker 3: sports where they're actually successful. But I would imagine since

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Speaker 3: this thing is so new, you're going to see a

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Speaker 3: pretty wide spectrum from one school to another with respect

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Speaker 3: to you know, how they actually plan to use this

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Speaker 3: their advantage.

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Speaker 2: I think that's exactly right. And you know, shifting away

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Speaker 2: a little bit from college football for a second, just

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Speaker 2: for all of athletics. Right, you might be a school

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Speaker 2: out in Dan's neck of the woods. You might be

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Speaker 2: like a Cause a Full or ten, or a Long

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Speaker 2: Beach or something his original neckaglements. Right, sure, where you

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Speaker 2: don't have football, and you're in the Big West, and

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Speaker 2: you could theoretically put that money into basketball, but you're

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Speaker 2: Irvine and Long Beach don't have twenty million dollars, and

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Speaker 2: they're not gonna even if they put every penny they

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Speaker 2: had into basketball, they're still going to lose to Duke.

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Speaker 2: You can't really compete for national championship that way. But

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Speaker 2: you couldn't baseball, where those kind of schools host NCAA

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Speaker 2: regionals all the time and you don't need twenty million

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Speaker 2: dollars to build a competitive roster. So you may see

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Speaker 2: some of those schools say, all right, we only got

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Speaker 2: four million to share. Let's go, let's make a meaningful

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Speaker 2: bet on volleyball or baseball where we can win a

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Speaker 2: national title and get national recognition. That way, you have

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Speaker 2: a couple of schools stay in the Big East or

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Speaker 2: the A ten that don't have scholarship football programs that

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Speaker 2: are going to say, well, we might be able to

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Speaker 2: give more money to basketball because we might have a

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Speaker 2: smaller pool, but we don't have to deal with it

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Speaker 2: sharing it with eighty five football players. And so we

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Speaker 2: are basketball, you know, budget be larger than some Big

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Speaker 2: ten or accor or at least FBS institutions kind of

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Speaker 2: moneyballed that way. Then for FBS, right, you've got you're

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Speaker 2: gonna have some schools that are gonna are gonna go

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Speaker 2: put in as much as they possibly Canada football. You're

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Speaker 2: gonna have some that are maybe gonna do a little

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Speaker 2: bit less because they're confident their athletes can make it

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Speaker 2: up through marketing or licensing or other ways kind of

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Speaker 2: above that cap. Uh. And you're gonna have some that

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Speaker 2: are are not going to offer very much at all.

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Speaker 2: It's a challenging question, I think. Right if you're if

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Speaker 2: you're a G five program where very few of them

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Speaker 2: are going like, in fact, I don't think anybody who's

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Speaker 2: going to go to twenty million, and and not very

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Speaker 2: many are going to go meaningfully above like six or seven.

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Speaker 2: How much is it worth to throw to throw in

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Speaker 2: your roster, You're probably not gonna give any to high scores,

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Speaker 2: right because they are two and a half stars. You

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Speaker 2: have no idea if they're going to be good or not.

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Speaker 2: Can you pay them enough to retain them knowing that

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Speaker 2: if you have an all conference Mountain West guy, he's

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Speaker 2: gonna go to the Big ten or the Big twelve

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Speaker 2: no matter what. I don't really know how you just

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Speaker 2: reat that money, which is a challenge, and I think

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Speaker 2: one of the most interesting things to me is how

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Speaker 2: schools are figuring out how to distreet breat that money.

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Speaker 2: Because you have some like North Carolina that are bringing

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Speaker 2: it ex NFL front office people paying them a lot

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Speaker 2: of money and saying like we're going to be a

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Speaker 2: thirty third NFL team and we're going.

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Speaker 4: To run our front office that.

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Speaker 2: But the most common thing for schools I know this

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Speaker 2: because I have a bunch of these contracts, is if

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Speaker 2: they have a GM, they're taking just some guy from

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Speaker 2: player of personnel. Somebody used to be a scout and

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Speaker 2: change his job title and give him a slightly better

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Speaker 2: set of software and work out it that way. Because

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Speaker 2: it's not the NFL. Right, salaries aren't public, we don't

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Speaker 2: have anywhere near the same level of performance data that

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Speaker 2: we have for the NFL. And we're dealing with eighteen

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Speaker 2: year olds, nineteen year olds, and I think I want

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Speaker 2: to use the industry specific term for talking about young

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Speaker 2: people at this age, they could be stupid. And so

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Speaker 2: they're trying to treat this the same way that you

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Speaker 2: would with professional caliber representation and grown men in their early.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how transferable it is, and so we're

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Speaker 5: all just kind of throwing stuff at the wall right

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Speaker 5: now and then giving press interviews to say that actually,

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Speaker 5: the school has figured it out, and this GM is

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Speaker 5: elite and this guy's worth one hundred grand brother.

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Speaker 2: Nobody knows yet, we'll know in a couple of years.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's just it's such an interesting i'd imadgine calculation.

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Speaker 3: If you are a GM, and if you've got a

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Speaker 3: designated pool of money, are you using that money just

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Speaker 3: with respect to football and not talking the entirety of

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Speaker 3: an athletic department. Do you use that money to retain

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Speaker 3: guys in the trenches. Do you use that money to

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Speaker 3: retain a certain amount of depth within your roster and

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Speaker 3: then work a little bit harder above and beyond to

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Speaker 3: get outside sponsors presumably who have more money that they

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Speaker 3: can throw around to keep your stars. Like I think

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Speaker 3: of a team of like an Ohio State, right, Ohio

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Speaker 3: State kind of went through this exercise a year ago.

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Speaker 3: It worked out for them. They spent a lot on

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Speaker 3: their roster. They were very targeted with how they went

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Speaker 3: out and got people to come in and you know,

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Speaker 3: attained some of the talent that they had. But they

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Speaker 3: were very, very good at maintaining some amount of depth

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Speaker 3: on that roster going into this past season. And that's

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Speaker 3: a big part of why they want I think depth

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Speaker 3: right now, especially given we're in the transfer portal and

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Speaker 3: nil era collectively, it's really hard to keep good players

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Speaker 3: on your roster, especially if they're not guaranteed playing time.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that's.

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Speaker 3: The strategy or do you just go out there and

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Speaker 3: splash the pot and keep your stars.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, this is why everyone's hiring

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Speaker 1: a GM now, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't know if you could do the

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Speaker 2: same strategy in every place right there. I think there's

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Speaker 2: some parts of the country. I don't want to say

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Speaker 2: you could just step outside and grab a wide receiver,

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Speaker 2: but there's places where it's easier to recruit. There's places

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Speaker 2: where there's there's more talent available, and maybe more talent

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Speaker 2: available that fits certain schematic areas. The Ohio State example

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Speaker 2: I think is interesting. There might have been to me,

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Speaker 2: I think some mis misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the way

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Speaker 2: that roster was built last year, right because Ohio State

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Speaker 2: did get a couple of important perform guys in the

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Speaker 2: transfer portal. I don't think the Caleb Down situation is

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Speaker 2: necessarily one that is scalable. Guys of that caliber generally

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Speaker 2: don't hit the portal very often. This was Nick Saban

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Speaker 2: was still there, Caleb is probably still at Alabama. Sure

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Speaker 2: you can get you can get journeyman quarterbacks, you can

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Speaker 2: occasionally get high level skill position guys. But where as

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Speaker 2: that really spent a ton of money was retaining all

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Speaker 2: of these people that they had developed in high school

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Speaker 2: to keep them from going to the NFL Draft as

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Speaker 2: third or fourth rounders. And I think that has some

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Speaker 2: similarities to how Penn State is looking a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I think coming into this year it's early. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if we have great data to suggest that you

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Speaker 2: can build a championship winning roster or championship caliber roster

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Speaker 2: more than thirty percent in the transfer portal. That may

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Speaker 2: it may eventually happen somewhere else, but I think to

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Speaker 2: your earlier point, there's generally just not enough guys in

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Speaker 2: the trenches. And the depth is even more important now,

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Speaker 2: not just because you can't stockpilot and because rosters are

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Speaker 2: more transient, but the season's longer. If you want to

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Speaker 2: win a national championship now, you're going to have to

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Speaker 2: play basically an NFL season. You got to win three

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Speaker 2: four games late into the year, which means you probably

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Speaker 2: you probably can't be running ninety snaps against Akron in September.

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Speaker 2: And whether that means play it seems played differently in

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Speaker 2: September I or they do have to build their rosters diffineler,

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Speaker 2: they deliberately play slower to try to preserve people. I

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Speaker 2: think that's going to be an interesting dynamic to watch

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Speaker 2: over the next couple of years, And.

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Speaker 3: Of course I guess the triggerman with respect to a lotting,

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Speaker 3: who is getting what, roster management, things of that nature.

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Speaker 3: This newfound position in college football, known as a GM,

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Speaker 3: We've known about it in every other sport for an eternity.

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Speaker 3: It feels like in the last six months everyone's been

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Speaker 3: talking about GM's and college football. I know you wrote

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Speaker 3: something about this out on Extra Points. You alluded to

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Speaker 3: the fact that it means something different everywhere. In some cases,

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Speaker 3: they change a job title, they give them more money,

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Speaker 3: a better version of Excel, whatever, so that they can

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Speaker 3: do what they got to do. What have you learned

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Speaker 3: with respect to that position and how it's I guess

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Speaker 3: maturing around college football.

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting because what general manager means in

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Speaker 2: the NBA or the NFL and what it means in

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Speaker 2: college are really very different. And it's not just because

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Speaker 2: there's a bunch of different kinds, different flavors or gms

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Speaker 2: in college, but right in the pros And there's some exceptions,

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Speaker 2: but generally speaking, the GM sits above the coach on

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Speaker 2: an organizational chart, or at least parallel to.

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Speaker 4: The coach and organizational part chart.

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Speaker 2: The GM is the guy that is building the roster, negotiating,

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Speaker 2: the contracts, doing trades and generally has some autonomy to

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Speaker 2: make some of those decisions regardless of what the coach wants.

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Speaker 2: There are exceptions, but it's generally at least peers right

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Speaker 2: in college, with the exception of Andrew Luck at Stanford,

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Speaker 2: and I think we just saw this played out there

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Speaker 2: too earlier. The GM unquestionably reports to the head coach.

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Speaker 2: The head coach is at the head of the college

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Speaker 2: sports organizational chart. The GM is not empowered to make independent,

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Speaker 2: autonomous personnel decisions. They serve at the luxury of the

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Speaker 2: guy above them, which already makes these very different gigs.

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Speaker 2: And some schools are already saying we don't need this

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Speaker 2: right Kirby Smart has already went out there and gave

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Speaker 2: an interview last week saying, doesn't make sense to have

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Speaker 2: one person, you know, do this, because I have to

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Speaker 2: be involved in these decisions, and so are other people

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Speaker 2: on my staff. We have a bunch of like of

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Speaker 2: partly part gms, and that's also true in a lot

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Speaker 2: of SEC and Big ten programs right now. I think

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Speaker 2: the last time I looked as it's not really a

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Speaker 2: common setup in at an SEC football at the moment.

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Speaker 4: There are a few exceptions, but.

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Speaker 2: So we already can't compare the two things.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: Then you have, I think, right, a pretty big gap

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Speaker 2: about what kind of experience you're bringing in. So you

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Speaker 2: and I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, right.

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Speaker 2: It could be somebody who's expert is navigating the NFL

394
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Speaker 2: collective bargaining agreement, finding contract loopholes, figuring out undervalued assets.

395
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Speaker 2: Your job is to pour through our pour through advanced stats,

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Speaker 2: make some graphs and figure out how to find a

397
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Speaker 2: linebacker that gives three hundred thousand worth of value for

398
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Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy five thousand. And then you have

399
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Speaker 2: some people who are not from that world at all.

400
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Speaker 2: And I don't think it necessarily bad because when I

401
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,399
Speaker 2: look at the PROS, NBA, NFL, anything else. If you're

402
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Speaker 2: a front office person, like I mentioned, the salaries for

403
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 2: professional athletes are public. You have a collective bargaining agreement,

404
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,439
Speaker 2: which means we know when free agencies starts, we know

405
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Speaker 2: how long contracts are, we have some base rules, and

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Speaker 2: we have commonly accepted performance data benchmarks that are shared

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Speaker 2: through everybody.

408
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Speaker 4: And we don't have.

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Speaker 2: Any of that in college. So I have no idea right.

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Speaker 2: If somebody who's awesome at running the Bear salary cap

411
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Speaker 2: can do the same thing for Georgia Tech, maybe they can.

412
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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe they can't. I legitimately don't know. And I

413
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Speaker 2: think anybody right now that tries to tell you that

414
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Speaker 2: they do know for sure that they're certain, I think

415
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Speaker 2: they're trying to sell you some software.

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Speaker 3: Okay, have you figured out how to pierce that veil

417
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Speaker 3: of secrecy yet?

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Speaker 1: That's kind of your specialty, right you know, I'm trying.

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Speaker 2: I probably have twelve or thirteen GM contracts in our

420
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Speaker 2: library right now, and I can get some people to

421
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Speaker 2: talk to me because we're trading information. I could say like, hey,

422
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Speaker 2: I have the contract template for revenue sharing that Louisville

423
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 2: is sent out. I'll give it to you if you

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Speaker 2: want to tell me a little bit more about what

425
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Speaker 2: you're doing. You'll play on personnel wise right now in

426
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Speaker 2: New Mexico. And sometimes I get some of those things.

427
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Speaker 2: But it is hard, and I think this is true

428
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Speaker 2: for a lot of my peers. Coaches are not always honest,

429
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,360
Speaker 2: religions are not. I just know this might it might

430
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Speaker 2: just be me, It might be my face. I don't know.

431
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Speaker 1: I don't know.

432
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 2: Why agents sometimes not always telling the truth. Athletic directors

433
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Speaker 2: don't always tell the truth. And so there's a lot

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Speaker 2: about this world where I am making calls and listening

435
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 2: and doing my best. But these are not these are

436
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Speaker 2: not stone tablet laws.

437
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 4: I think right.

438
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 3: Now you mentioned Louisville, and I think Louisville is actually

439
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 3: a really good example for my next question, which is

440
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: do schools like this do they see this as an opportunity?

441
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 3: Do they see this as an impediment. I'd imagine this

442
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 3: is just me giving my opinion. I'd imagine if you

443
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 3: are one of the bigger money schools, yes, it's more

444
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 3: money you need to I guess a lot elsewhere that

445
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: you're not used to doing. But still that can be

446
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 3: an opportunity, can be an opportunity to you know, be honest,

447
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 3: let's say, in some sense of how you want to

448
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 3: retain your players and be honest with respect to which

449
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: programs are the most important at your institution. But for

450
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 3: a school like a Louisville, which is, you know, obviously

451
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 3: a big school but not what we would consider top

452
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: top top wrong in college football, how does a school

453
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 3: like that view this new era where Okay, now, we've

454
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 3: got to pour some amount of money into.

455
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: A football program.

456
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 3: Is the football program as big as the basketball program?

457
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 3: This calculus that you referenced earlier seems like it would

458
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 3: really come into a play at a school like that.

459
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question, and part of it depends

460
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 2: on who you talk to. So when I talk to coaches,

461
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 2: while many of them are happy that if the school

462
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 2: is paying, the school has much more control over the situation.

463
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 2: You don't have to rely as much on boosters or

464
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 2: on collectives that you can't control or necessarily trust. Almost

465
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: every successful coach that I've ever met, God bless him,

466
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: tends to be some kind of control freak, and now

467
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: being able to issue those contracts yourself gives you more control.

468
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: That's generally considered a positive. One thing that I hear

469
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 2: a lot of coaches are really frustrated about are the

470
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 2: roster limits. For a lot of programs in the upper

471
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 2: level of the P four. You're generally not playing walk

472
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 2: ons very much. If you're counting on walk ons to

473
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 2: fill out.

474
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 4: Your TWODP screwed up in a couple of places.

475
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that coaches don't love having walk ons.

476
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: And I love having rosters of one, twenty one, twenty five.

477
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: Part of that is because it makes practices better, but

478
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 2: I've heard a lot of people tell me it's really

479
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: important for culture because if you have eighty five guys

480
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: that are all four stars, that are making money and

481
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: they think they've already got it made, and you're having

482
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 2: to practice against somebody from East bumble far Nebraska who

483
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: the only thing they've ever wanted to be in their

484
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: life is a Nebraska Cornhusk corn Husker there, and they're

485
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: just they're just killing themselves every damn practice to maybe

486
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: be on the travel roster. Coaches love that because it

487
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 2: reminds the people that came in with more prestige they

488
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: still have to work every once in a while. Some

489
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: of those people will end up being important on special

490
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: teams or as backups or as contributors. When you move

491
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 2: to a one oh five hard cap roster, you're gonna

492
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: have to kick a bunch of walk ons off the team.

493
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to cut a lot of people, and

494
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 2: you're gonna do a relatively quickly, which nobody likes. The

495
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: roster limits system is I think universally criticized among football

496
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: coaches and especially among other coaches. Hockey people hate this,

497
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 2: track people, soccer people hate this. A lot of people

498
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 2: will be processed, and that will also mean that there

499
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: are going to be people that are going to be

500
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: cut this summer that are good enough to play MAC

501
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 2: football or good enough to play Mountain Western or Sun

502
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: Belt football that might make their way our rosters, so

503
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: that that is kind of push a pull. The thing

504
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 2: that I think frustrates almost everybody is not whether a

505
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: rule is good or bad.

506
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 4: It's instability.

507
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: And right now there's still a lot of questions that

508
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 2: nobody can really answer about how you can spend above

509
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 2: the cap? Do are collectives authorized to continue to exist?

510
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: Should they all be moved in house? We have to

511
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 2: report deals of over six hundred dollars to Deloitte to

512
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: see if they pass a fair market value test and

513
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: have some third party audit them. Is that legal?

514
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: What happened?

515
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 2: If I don't do it? Can I promise recruits right

516
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 2: now that we can guarantee them X amount of marketing

517
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 2: dollars above our cap? Nobody knows, and we're going to

518
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: find out in a year two and some schools are

519
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: just going to say I don't well screw it. We're

520
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: just going to do that thing and hope that somebody

521
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: stops us. And that is the environment that frustrates a

522
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 2: lot of coaches and administractors. And that's kind of the

523
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: way college football is rugually for the last twenty years.

524
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: Give me the rules and I'll plan around them. Don't

525
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: make me guess what the rules.

526
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: Don't make me guess what the rules are, which is

527
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 3: totally fair if you're in a high power position. I

528
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 3: totally understand that I have a few more questions on

529
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 3: this that I do want to move on to some

530
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 3: other subjects. One of the things that Dan and I

531
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: talked about, I know it was in the news somewhat recently,

532
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 3: was and I'm paraphrasing here, I'm probably gonna botch it.

533
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 3: Hopefully you can correct me if I get anything incorrect.

534
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: But this continued power play from both the Big Ten

535
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 3: and the SEC to control certain aspects of the sport.

536
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it gets a little bit more

537
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: with respect to headlines when we talk about automatic bids

538
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 3: into the playoff field, But there is also a piece

539
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 3: of controlling this money. Not to say that they are

540
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 3: getting more money than anybody, but they seemingly have an

541
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: outsize impact in how that money is regulated. Right they're

542
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 3: setting up, is it like an outside commission that is

543
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: going to keep track of and make sure that the

544
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: rules are followed. It's basically like a shadow nc DOUBLEA

545
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 3: as per my limited understanding.

546
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: What does that look like?

547
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 3: How are they actually going to enforce this because to

548
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: your point, like the rules over the last decade are

549
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 3: very wishy washy, and sometimes they're followed, other times they're not.

550
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: It doesn't seem like the NCAA wants to really enforce

551
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 3: anything because they don't want to get sued again. How

552
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 3: does that symbiotic relationship look from your chair.

553
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: It's a tough question. So to go back to that

554
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 2: third party specifically in this legal settlement, this kind of

555
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: post house world. The four A four conferences have hired

556
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: Deloitte massive consulting. And a company does a lot of

557
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 2: account auditing, does a lot of consulting for other projects,

558
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 2: Deloitte is running a nil deal clearinghouse. And what deloitd

559
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 2: is saying at Deloitte not not from their own free

560
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: will involution, but because the major conferences have put together

561
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: these rules and settlement is that every deal and an

562
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,239
Speaker 2: athlete does that's over six hundred bucks has to get

563
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: audited by this company. And if you do a deal

564
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: with Doctor Pepper and you're going to be on all

565
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: the fans fill commercials and you get a million bucks

566
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: for that, great, because you're on TV all the time.

567
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 2: If you're the cover athlete of the next video game

568
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: and you get you know, what is it you five

569
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars or something like that, great, you know

570
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: that's market rate for being on the cover video game.

571
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: If you get, hey, one hundred thousand dollars to sign

572
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: a couple of autographs at the Boys and Girls Club, No,

573
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: that's not market rate. That's called someone trying to pay

574
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: you money to be a left tackle when you're not

575
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: actually marketable. And what Deloitte is saying is now we

576
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: would flag that we can do and we have the

577
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: power to do those things because this settlement was blessed

578
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: and certified by a federal judge, and that we will

579
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: have regulatory power vested in us by this legal system

580
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 2: to to make changes here. That's when that says on paper, right,

581
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: and the settlement hasn't been approved yet.

582
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 4: There'll be some questions about that.

583
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: The unsexy answer is nobody knows what happens in June

584
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: or July, because the second that's approved, there's a small

585
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: army of trial lawyers that are going to want to

586
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: sue it on antitrust grounds.

587
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 4: Right, but we are.

588
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: But it's also possible that Congress certifies this and puts

589
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 2: it into law and says, okay, now instead of delight,

590
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: it's the Federal Trade Commission that's going to regulate some

591
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: of these things. Congress, now that it's unified Republican control,

592
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: could say no, athletes aren't employees, and we're going to

593
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: try to codify whatever the NCAA said in nineteen ninety eight.

594
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: That's that's now law. That is a thing, that is

595
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: a thing that could happen. You know, not to be partisan,

596
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: but but you know, we're moving into a world where

597
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: we don't really know what the law is in some places,

598
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: or who's going to enforce it, or whether it's the

599
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: Department of Education or Department of Justice or civil rights.

600
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,479
Speaker 2: And maybe there's a law on the books and they

601
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: just fire everybody that enforces it, and then so there

602
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: is no law. Nobody knows and like literally at this point,

603
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: and this is what keeps a lot of people, coaches, administrators,

604
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: business supporters up at night.

605
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: We don't know.

606
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 3: Let's shift gears a little bit. I know a lot

607
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: of people listening to this podcast do not give a

608
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 3: rip about video games. I know this because many of

609
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: them have told me. But I do think it's a

610
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 3: fairly big college football business story that the New Football

611
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 3: video game came out last July. You probably have better

612
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: numbers than I do, but from everything I've read, it

613
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: was an overwhelming success. You've already reported that there are

614
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: plans well underway to develop another version of the game.

615
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: I have mentioned did on I think some of our

616
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: bonus episodes anecdotally that I have read chatter online of

617
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: people who typically would be very deep in the weeds

618
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: on the Madden front have started switching to play more

619
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: college football for a variety of reasons, ranging from timing,

620
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 3: to content within the game to the gameplay itself. Again,

621
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 3: I don't want to get too too deep down that hole,

622
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 3: because I know there are a lot of people out

623
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: there who don't care. But let me put it to

624
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 3: you this way. What has been the reaction that you

625
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 3: have picked up from the powers that be, both on

626
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 3: the EA Sports.

627
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: Side as well as the college football side to how.

628
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 3: This video game went over and to what they think

629
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 3: it means specifically moving forward to grow the sport.

630
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: It is hard to overstate internally what a massive success

631
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: EA Sports College Football twenty five was. It just eviscerated

632
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: every industry projection, internal company projections. It's kind of a

633
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: funny thing. I remember. I remember before the game, and

634
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: I do a lot of YouTube interview because I did

635
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: a bunch of reporting on the last game, where I'd

636
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: go on and Reddit and they would the people that

637
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: would just say, like, you know, this is going to

638
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: sell more than Madden, and I would say that's ridiculous.

639
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: I would say that because people at EA would say

640
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: that's ridiculous. The NFL is overwhelmingly more popular than college football.

641
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: There's a huge incompency advantage to this franchise. It has

642
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 2: an international audience and college football does it, and then

643
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: for point of sale, it sold more than Madden. And

644
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: I think part of that also speaks to a lot

645
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: of domestic frustration with the Baden franchise and how this

646
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: one was new and there was pent up demand, but

647
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: it went very well and schools are happy about that

648
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: because that meant that the royalty check that the schools

649
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: got was far greater, and then they thought they were

650
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: going to be getting Like the dirty little secret is

651
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: that historically schools didn't make very much money from video

652
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: game licensing. Last year they did, and some of the

653
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: biggest schools I believe made over seven figures. A lot

654
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 2: of schools got a six figure check when normally that

655
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: wasn't the projection just because it sold so well, and

656
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: eas is very excited about that. Where I think one

657
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: of the kind of lesser told stories that that I

658
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: think is really fascinating is also what this growth of

659
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 2: this game is. Success of this game meant for some

660
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: of these smaller schools. I think you and I might

661
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: have talked about this before we dine, yeah, beforehand, right,

662
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: but like Kanansas State was America's meme team for anybody

663
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: that ran a Dynasty program last year, right, this is

664
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: the expansion team. You got the Goofy mascot, you get

665
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: Reese Davis saying give who you're You're located outside of Atlanta,

666
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: so it's a little bit easier to recruit and build

667
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: a pipeline that way. Half of America started when they

668
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: got this game and played We have one play now

669
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: and figured out how to do it. They fired up

670
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: at Kansas State Dynasty and then people at Kanessas State

671
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, our Google search skyrocketed. We had people

672
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 2: from all over the country now becoming aware of our

673
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: of our school which is a mostly commuter college, you

674
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: know around Atlanta.

675
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: That's huge for them.

676
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 2: And now more schools are looking like, how can we

677
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: use this game to not just better engage our alumni

678
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: and our students and our players themselves, but also expand

679
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: the reach of our program throughout throughout the country. And

680
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: I think you're going to see more explicit programming built

681
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 2: around that, right for this next year. It's it's I

682
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: will say, it's really hard to build a video game.

683
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: It's very expensive to build a video game. But the

684
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: commercial success of this project has inspired.

685
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 4: I want to use those words very carefully.

686
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 2: Has has inspired people, both you at the campus level

687
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: and in the video game industry at large to think

688
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 2: more creatively about how to use college sports assets in games,

689
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: whether that's football, potentially other things.

690
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: Interesting.

691
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: I can give a quick example on that because ye

692
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: are confused, right, and they'll be the show the New

693
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: the New baseball game for the first time now let

694
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: you play start your dynasty mode, your career mode as

695
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: a college baseball player. They don't have all the college

696
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 2: baseball teams, but they have I think it's ten Cal

697
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: State Fullerton's one. It's like LSU, Texas, a couple other

698
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: major powers. So those schools got a nominal licensing deal

699
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: and you could see some of that ip in the game.

700
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: Maybe that gets expanded. Is this something that could potentially

701
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: be a part of a future NBA two K game

702
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: on an expand level than it has been in the past.

703
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: Historically you could play limited college basketball games with the small.

704
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 4: Number of teams as an NBA career.

705
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something that could be expanded. I've heard. I've

706
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: heard developers and licensing companies talk about that. Could that

707
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: potentially mean a new college basketball game? Potentially? Yes, Like

708
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 2: I can say that's that is substantially more possible than

709
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: it was a year ago, now that we have heard

710
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: and fast sales data to show there's some interesting Could

711
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: it mean licensed mobile games that are way more casual,

712
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 2: that use video that use college players and college programs

713
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: ip in them. Yeah, I think I think that's also possible.

714
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: Like a greater sense of possibility is happening in the

715
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: video game industry. Now, once people saw how popular this

716
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: college football game, do you.

717
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 3: Think those possibilities include fixing their servers which go down

718
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: more than they should. I just wondering, just wondering if

719
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: anybody out there is listening.

720
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, I know text some people at EA.

721
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: Right.

722
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: I don't know if any game that has this, that

723
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 2: has this number of people playing on it doesn't have

724
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: that problem, whether it's a sports game, whether it's a shooter.

725
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: I'm sure that improving the multiplayer experience is a big

726
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: part of what was focusing on, because I will say,

727
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 2: like the game last year in many ways was pretty

728
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 2: bare bones, I think feature wise for playing online with

729
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 2: other people, it was a pretty limited ultimate team mode

730
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: online Dynasty had some significant limitations to it. The Road

731
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 2: of the College Football Playoff was probably the most developed

732
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 2: online game, but that had some limitations, like certainly those

733
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: are areas that the company's looking at for next year.

734
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 3: Well, sorry to my friends from MEA who I know

735
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 3: also listened to this, but I just had asked the server.

736
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: Question because that's been frustrating for me.

737
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 3: But nonetheless, do you think that the next version of

738
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: this game is going to sell as well as the

739
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 3: first version, because the first version I think tapped into

740
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 3: almost like this pent up market demand that you know,

741
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 3: we had waited for a decade to try and get

742
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: a new game ever since the previous one went away.

743
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: There was obviously a lot of interest in this one

744
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 3: when it came about. Now it's kind of, you know,

745
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 3: the seal has been broken. Do we think that there

746
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 3: will be as much interest?

747
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: I don't, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, you know.

748
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: I heard somebody from from Xbox say over the after

749
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: the summer that EA Sports Scotch Football twenty five sold

750
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 2: more consoles than any other game since like Grand Theft Auto,

751
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: meaning that more people bought a system just for this game.

752
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: We talked about this before. I think we both know

753
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 2: a lot of people in their mid to late thirties

754
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: early forties that just hadn't been playing video games since

755
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: college that bought a system for this. I don't think

756
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: you can reactivate that crowd every single year. There's still

757
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: new consumers out there, especially if and when this game

758
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: goes to computers, goes to PC for people that don't

759
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: have systems, or more importantly globally, because PlayStations and xboxes

760
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: are very expensive in parts of South America and Asia.

761
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: I think once this game eventually ends up on Steam,

762
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 2: whether it's next year or the year after the year

763
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: after that, you'll break in new people. But I would

764
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: not expect it to sell as great as this year.

765
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 2: But if they do eighty percent of the numbers for

766
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: next year's release, or I guess this summer's release and

767
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: they did last year, I think people will still be throwed.

768
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 3: This is a perfect point for me to remind everybody

769
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: that out at for Bowlers dot Com we have a

770
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 3: bunch of people running Xbox and PS five dynasties.

771
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: I'm in the PS five dynasty. I keep losing every year.

772
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: I won the championship our first year of doing it,

773
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 3: but now everyone else has gotten better and since then

774
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 3: I have not. So yeah, but if you're interested, for

775
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 3: Ballers dot com is where you can go for more

776
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: information on that. I wanted a round third here and

777
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 3: slide into home talking about your exploits with Nil and

778
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: specifically was sponsoring a bowl game. I don't know if

779
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 3: this is something we had a chance to fully unpack.

780
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 3: I think we talked about it either on a bonus

781
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 3: episode or maybe something down the stretch later in the year.

782
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 3: I'm kind of losing track here, but regardless, you sponsored

783
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 3: a bowl game, you got a little bit more involved

784
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: in the NAL front. I'm wondering from your perspective, was

785
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 3: that meaningful? What was that process like being an advertiser

786
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 3: in effect, hoping to use this to try and build

787
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: some brand recognition, some trust in what you're doing, and

788
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 3: to kind of be out there as somebody participating in

789
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: this marketplace. What was that experience like for you?

790
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: I honestly, being a part of the Extra Points Bowl

791
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: was one of the professional highlights of my career. And

792
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: I'll be honest, like, did we make we make money

793
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: from the Extra Points Bowl? Almost certainly not. It wasn't

794
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: exorbitly expensive for us to buy the licensing, But did

795
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: we generate more subscription sales than we paid? I don't

796
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: think that we did, But that also wasn't the point.

797
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: You know. One of the things that I have I've

798
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: learned from running Extra Points now for the last I

799
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: guess we're coming on year five, which is crazy, crazy,

800
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 2: but one of the places where I think we've been

801
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 2: the most successful about trying to explain how college sports

802
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: works is by being involved. Right. Part of the reason

803
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: I think I was able to do a better job

804
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: covering the development of the a sports college football last

805
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 2: year was because I've made a computer game, and I'm

806
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: not a great software developer, but I knew enough to ask.

807
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: I think maybe different kind of questions we're talking to

808
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: devs are people than maybe somebody who never coded before.

809
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: I definitely think I'm better at writing about NIL and

810
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: the limitations of influencer marketing having done some of those deals.

811
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 2: I can tell you think we'll get in trouble for

812
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: saying this. We've also been trying to get a shoe

813
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: deal the same way that a small college might get

814
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: a shoe deal. We've taken meetings with shoe companies and

815
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: part to better understand how that process works so we

816
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: can explain it. And we'll write about that more later

817
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: this summer. But that was part of why we did

818
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: the Bowl game, because I believe that event management and

819
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: selling sponsorship rights and selling IP and creating new events

820
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: is going to be a really important way for big

821
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: and small schools to earn the revenue needed to pay

822
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 2: players and to handle their budgets. And so if that's

823
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: going to be part of my beat. I should understand

824
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: how it works a little bit, and I can tell you, hey,

825
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: selling ads at a stadium for a game is hard.

826
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 2: It's not something you can do kind of part time

827
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 2: on the side. Like like, we did you know that

828
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: next year's Extra Points Bowl we're going to We've hired

829
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: a dedicated salesperson. We're going to be pounding the pavement

830
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: much earlier and much harder.

831
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: So there is going to be a part two to this.

832
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 2: Be a yes, there there will be a There will

833
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: be another Extra Points Bowl. I have a meeting with

834
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 2: the participating conferences. It should still be the President's Athletics

835
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 2: Epotic Conference and the Ohio Athletic Conference. It'll still be

836
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 2: at the Canon Hall of Fame Stadium in late November.

837
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 4: Two Division three teams.

838
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: Last year, Westminster beat Marietta for the Extra Points Bowl championship.

839
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: You got these patches here and the logo and the

840
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: trophy passed out there. But I'll tell you, like what

841
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: was most meaningful was being on the field near the

842
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 2: end of that game. I remember talking to a player's

843
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 2: dad at Marietta. You know, pretty good Division three team

844
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: miss the playoffs, and that was saying, hey, my son

845
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 2: broke his leg towards ACL in the beginning of the

846
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 2: season his senior year. I thought it wasn't an guest

847
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 2: get a chest to play again. I got injured somehow,

848
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,479
Speaker 2: and because there was an extra game in the season,

849
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 2: he was able to come back in time enough to

850
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: play this game. He's like, which you've given us is

851
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: one more bus ride, one more team dinner, and one

852
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: more chance to compete with his best friends and end

853
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 2: his career on a different note than being injured. And

854
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: he was like, crying because you're so happy about that.

855
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: At the end of the game, you see a bunch

856
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 2: of these guys who had no idea who the hell

857
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: I was. Didn't know extra points from Sports Business Journal,

858
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: from Sports Illustrated or anything that probably heard of me

859
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: in the publication for the first time the day before,

860
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 2: screaming with joy about holding this trophy and winning because

861
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: not because of me or because of this company, but

862
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 2: because they wanted to compete one more time, which is

863
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 2: what Division three football is kind of about. When you

864
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 2: sit there and think, was this worth a few thousand

865
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: dollars we spent on it? Hell? Yeah it was, and

866
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 2: I wanted that recharge and so and now I think

867
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: it's exciting to think about this for next year. Would

868
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 2: be like this to help us sell more and more

869
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 2: sponsorships or subscriptions or maybe our software product to more schools. Yeah,

870
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 2: that'd be great. I'm a business, I'm out of charity.

871
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: I'd love to get more earned media from this, and

872
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: that helps extra points, But I also want to help

873
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: make a good event. You and I both know that

874
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: people that compete in college football at small colleges they

875
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: lift just as many weights, they try just as hard,

876
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: they grind film just like guys at Penn State, Notre Dame,

877
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 2: Oregon do. And you want to be able to spoil

878
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 2: them a little bit. And and and because when you're

879
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: playing at Oberlin or Kenyon or some small college in

880
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: front of girlfriends and parents and NeiMa and Grandpap and

881
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: forty other people, it's nice to go to play at

882
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 2: big old stadium and get a bull swag bag and

883
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: get on TV for a little bit and have that

884
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: special moment. Don't remember that for a long time. They

885
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: got rings for it and everything. And that's what we

886
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: want to We want to we want to keep doing

887
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: and that's worth the money for us.

888
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: What are the wrinkles this year? Have you considered? Uh,

889
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: I don't know.

890
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 3: I mean, first off, we need to get you some

891
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 3: sort of custom extra points Bowl jacket.

892
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: You know I have one, right, I know you have one.

893
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 3: I was looking for it actually, full disclosure while we

894
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 3: were having this conversation. The reason I bring up the

895
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: jacket is, obviously, you know, that's kind of a thing

896
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,479
Speaker 3: in college football, in sports as a as a whole.

897
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 3: I sat next to a contingent of Fiesta Bowl executives

898
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 3: at one of our previous stops and was like transfixed

899
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: by these jackets that they were all wearing. So I

900
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: guess my point is, you either need to find a

901
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 3: way to get more people that stunning blue jacket. Dan's

902
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 3: blue jacket we referred to as the blue Whale. We

903
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 3: can give you that name as well if you want that.

904
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,439
Speaker 3: But we need more blue jackets, and I think more

905
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 3: patches this year. I don't know how widespread they were.

906
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: So I think there's only like three or four of

907
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: these jackets. And I would I would have spilled some

908
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 2: industry some industry secret secrets here, because we spent a

909
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: lot of time trying to figure out how to get

910
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: these things.

911
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 3: This.

912
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: I ordered this, I think from a costume shop because

913
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 2: blazer was like sixty bucks. It is it is.

914
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 4: Let me tell you something.

915
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 2: This is machine wash, baby, this is this is the finest.

916
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: Babage like a Halloween spirit store.

917
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: It was. It was online one, but not unlike that,

918
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: because I went to several actual suit places and we

919
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: couldn't get one ugly enough. Or I mean, I go

920
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 2: in there like I want something that Ron Burgundy would

921
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: have worn. Here's our company, you know, color scheme, what

922
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: do you have? And they're like, I'm sorry, We're too

923
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: Caucasian for this particular kind of suit. You might have

924
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: to put it to go somewhere else. So I speak

925
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: out of this costume store. And then our friends at

926
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: home Field Apparel helped design the logo. We made that

927
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 2: into patches, and then once I bought the coat, I

928
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 2: got this even tailored a little bit for me. And

929
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: then and then sewing on and we got a lot

930
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 2: of people have asked where can I buy one of these?

931
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: So I'll mention this on the show here because I

932
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 2: would love to sell them, but I need to figure

933
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 2: out a way to do that economically and affordably, because

934
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: people say like, I want this check, and I'm like,

935
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 2: do you wanted one hundred and fifty dollars worth? Because

936
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 2: I think that's almost what it will be for cost

937
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 2: and sewing and then and manually shipping. If there are

938
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: people out there in the director consumer world that are like,

939
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 2: I have some ideas, or I mean I have a

940
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: huge We give these patches away for paid extra points subscribers,

941
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 2: if you want to make your own, I would love

942
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 2: to find a way to make these more accessible to people.

943
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 3: So here's the deal. Here's the deal. We have a

944
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 3: very large audience for this show. If anybody out there

945
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 3: can help Matt in his pursuit of either making more

946
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 3: jackets for people to buy or just to give away,

947
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 3: because I think that's the secret sauce. If you're going

948
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 3: to have a jacket, and if it's going to be

949
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 3: a specialized bowl game, I think we need to give

950
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 3: more jackets out to the people associated with the bowl game.

951
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 3: You are of like the mascot for the game. You

952
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 3: are the brains behind this operation. You certainly need one.

953
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 3: But we need to start branching out and giving more

954
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 3: people the blue jackets so that the blue jacket becomes

955
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 3: a thing and eventually it can become the trophy.

956
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 2: I would love that. I'm going to wear this TANACTA

957
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 2: this year, which is the gigantic like Athletic Director Industry conference,

958
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 2: and you know, you see p four athletic directors at

959
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 2: this thing. Everybody's got the very fancy checkerboard, you know,

960
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 2: loud jacket and their school colors and then like whatever

961
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: air Jordan's or do they have for their particular shoe deal,

962
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: that will be me and I'll wear this on whatever

963
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 2: panel I can get on here. I yeah, if you're listening,

964
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 2: this is not about making money for us. This is

965
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 2: about putting something in the hands of what the people want,

966
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: which is a ridiculous blueberry colored uh you know jacket

967
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: here for this Bowl game. I'd love to help make

968
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: that happen.

969
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: The other thing that you need, the other thing that

970
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: you need not to cut you off.

971
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 3: If you're going to go to any kind of convention,

972
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: and if you're gonna wear your very dapper outfit, you

973
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 3: need a briefcase with a handcuff and inside inside inside

974
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 3: you need those patches that you can give out.

975
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 2: That is a great idea. That is a great idea.

976
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: I think so this the next convention is in Orlando.

977
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: It's this summer. I think I will do that and

978
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: then I'm looking forward to explaining that to like joecastically

979
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: Own at Oklahoma Perfect.

980
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: He would love it.

981
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 2: I'm sure this is the actual football right in terms

982
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: of other tweaks, but what I can tell you it's

983
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: a couple of priorities for us for the game. Right.

984
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: We were supposed to have a military flyover actually for

985
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 2: the Extra Points Bowl, and how cool. There was bad

986
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: weather and so we didn't end up doing it. That

987
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 2: is a goal for this year. The trophy we made

988
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: I like, but it was smaller than I thought it

989
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: was going to be. And now that I think we

990
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: have some more time, we kind of had to do

991
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 2: a rush delivery. I think we'd like to get something bigger.

992
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 2: I think the last one was like this big and

993
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 2: when you give that to an offensive line that it

994
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 2: looks like a microphone, Like, Okay, this is a big

995
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: enough game. We want to expand there. But I think

996
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: that the thing that's most important to us is how

997
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 2: can we direct more money and more stuff to the

998
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 2: athletes participating. Everybody who was in the game last year

999
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: got discount home field stuff. They got like Defector subscriptions,

1000
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 2: They got subscriptions to Extra Points, They had a lovely dinner,

1001
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: They got a personal tour of the NFL Hall of Fame,

1002
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 2: which I think is great. If we're able to bring

1003
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 2: in other sponsors, like what we were our goal and

1004
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 2: we weren't able to do it last year, maybe we'll

1005
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 2: do it this year. Is I wanted to give people

1006
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 2: ya sports gift cards, given like how much a part

1007
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: of our coverage that had been. We love to get

1008
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: them more food, you know. I thought we might be

1009
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: able to get Wendy's or some Ohio based like company

1010
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 2: to help cater this. That didn't happen, but we have

1011
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 2: we have next year for that. I think we want

1012
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,439
Speaker 2: to look at everything we can do to put more

1013
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: money or stuff for experiences into the football players. And

1014
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 2: then after that, we looked at the fans and and

1015
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: and how else can we expand this? And I'll also

1016
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: tell you, like, I don't know if we're we do

1017
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: the Extra Points Bowl for ten years or not, or

1018
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 2: if we look at maybe doing something more local to

1019
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 2: Chicago where I live in and based after that. But

1020
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: we have had some conversations about getting involved with.

1021
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 4: Other athletic events.

1022
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 2: Whether that's an extra points early season multi team event

1023
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 2: in college basketball. I'm particularly interested in maybe getting involved

1024
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 2: in sponsoring something in college hockey, or potentially sponsoring an award.

1025
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: You know, I would listen. I know I'm never going

1026
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 2: to get the Pisman Trophy back because I think I've

1027
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 2: tweeted some anti vox media things too many times. Sure,

1028
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 2: somebody else where to buy it, you know, we we'd

1029
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 2: be happy to sponsor our COMMERCII support it, but maybe

1030
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: something in that end we have we have a lot

1031
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: of big ideas of how we could be involved in

1032
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 2: help athletes this year.

1033
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: Well, this is really cool, it's really cool. I'm glad

1034
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: that you did it. I'm glad that you have these

1035
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: experiences you can share.

1036
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 3: Why don't I close out with this just to bring

1037
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 3: this thing full circle, especially since we started talking about

1038
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,280
Speaker 3: the House settlement and how that might impact college football.

1039
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 3: What is the next asteroid headed towards the sport that

1040
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 3: you maybe don't feel as imminent. Maybe it is I

1041
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 3: don't know, I hope not, but something that you are

1042
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 3: tracking on your Matt Brown radar.

1043
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 2: Well, there's two and they're both centered around the White House.

1044
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 2: The astroid number one is the employment question. At the

1045
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 2: conventional wisdom I think among my peers and many political

1046
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 2: analysts was Congress is not going to do anything to

1047
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 2: help the nc double A, And that was it was

1048
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 2: smart to think that, I think because we used to

1049
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: having to buy to Congress and getting bills passed through

1050
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats is almost impossible anyway, and helping fix

1051
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 2: the NCAA's labor problems, it's not an issue that animates

1052
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 2: a lot of lawmakers. So there's not a ton of

1053
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: really big time college sports fans in Capitol Hill, and

1054
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: there aren't really single issue voters out there thinking like

1055
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 2: the old thing I really care about is the NCUBLEA

1056
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 2: anti trust exemption, Like that, that's not how politics works, right,

1057
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 2: But now Republicans control everything. And the guy that is

1058
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 2: going to be most plugged in in leading the charge

1059
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: on this issue and who is very very intellectually engaged

1060
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 2: in it and really cares is Ted Cruz, Senator from Texas.

1061
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 2: He's going to release a bill in early April that's

1062
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: going to provide a limited anti trust exemption for and

1063
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: define athletes as not ployees. And his staff and I've

1064
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: talked to you and some Democratic staffers are confident that

1065
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 2: there will be crossover support for this in the Senate,

1066
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: whether this dies in the House, whether it dies because

1067
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 2: some other crazy political thing happens. Who knows sure that

1068
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: that that you know that that that's one issue and

1069
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: the other thing. And I say this not I don't

1070
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: want to be partisan or but I want to tell

1071
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 2: the truth is higher education in this country is not

1072
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 2: in an especially healthy place, and it wasn't before uh,

1073
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: this new administration. We've talked before about an enrollment cliff

1074
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: or demographic change that's making it much harder for smaller schools,

1075
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: especially in the Midwest and Northeast, you don't have enough

1076
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 2: students and so are losing money. But when you have

1077
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: a world where enormous amounts of federal funding are cut

1078
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: through medical grant research and scientific grant research, and what

1079
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: I can tell you, and I've heard this athletic directors,

1080
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 2: not just university presence, is there's concern about funding for FASA,

1081
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 2: funding for future GI bills, funding for for for other

1082
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: you know, for grants, and if those things are disrupted,

1083
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: we're looking at dozens of schools closing. And then the

1084
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 2: issue isn't so much about how is like Ohio State

1085
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 2: going to fill out their football roster. Then it becomes

1086
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: how does Akron stay open? Let alone, how does Achron

1087
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: have a football team? And those are asteroids stick to

1088
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: consider here. There are issues that can shape college sports

1089
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 2: that have way more to do with college than the

1090
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 2: sports that are potentially at play here over the next

1091
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:31,919
Speaker 2: couple of years.

1092
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 3: All right, a lot going on on that happy note,

1093
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 3: on that happy note, Yeah, a lot going on. Tell

1094
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 3: the fine folks where they can find you and your work, Matt,

1095
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 3: You do a great job, I know very quickly.

1096
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: I think it's say, even though I'm ending on that,

1097
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: I have some optimism about this industry. I think this

1098
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 2: settlement could be a positive thing for a lot of

1099
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: athletes in many ways. This is probably the best time

1100
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 2: to ever be a Division one college athlete, particularly a

1101
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 2: high level football or basketball player, in terms of what

1102
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: you can get for money and other benefits. I think

1103
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: there are some changes happening at college sports that are

1104
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 2: gonna be very painful in the short term, but may

1105
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 2: really be better for consumers in the industry at large afterwards.

1106
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 2: So I know it's been there might have been a

1107
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: tough hour here, honest to God, not everything's on the

1108
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: catastrophe Vie, and you can read about these things, but

1109
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 2: what's going on big school, small school catastrophe? Fun stuff

1110
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 2: like D three Bowl games. You can find that at

1111
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,439
Speaker 2: Extra Points Extra Points mb dot com. Two of those

1112
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: are free. Two of those are behind a paywall, which

1113
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: then funds things like this ridiculous jecket.

1114
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 3: I am a paying subscriber. I would encourage everybody to

1115
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 3: go out there and check out Matt's fine work. You've

1116
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 3: been killing it, man, I give you props. You've been

1117
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 3: doing all sorts of creative stuff. I know it's very

1118
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 3: much been a labor of love. I'm glad to see

1119
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 3: that you've grown and expanded and have been able to

1120
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 3: make this full time thing because you're doing really important work.

1121
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 3: So thank you again for the work that you do.

1122
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 3: Thank you again for your time that you're always willing

1123
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 3: to share with us through one of our best friends here.

1124
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 3: So we love having you on just to have a

1125
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 3: conversation anytime we can, and promise to do it again soon.

1126
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 2: All right, it's it's it's my pleasure everyone. I promise

1127
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: I'm fun in real life. I promise I'm not just

1128
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: here to be to be to be Debbie Downer and

1129
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: everything I'm always happy to be on.

1130
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, man.

1131
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: Why don't we leave it there one and all again.

1132
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: I'm tied Dan.

1133
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 3: We'll be back on our next episode, back from parts unknown,

1134
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 3: out there in California, visiting family, enjoying the warmer weather.

1135
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: Hope you stay with us, Hit follow, hit, subscribe again.

1136
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 3: Going out and check out verballers dot com if you're

1137
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 3: interested in the ad free episodes, a bonus content discord

1138
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 3: playing in the Dynasty if that's your thing. I don't know,

1139
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 3: but v E R B A L L e r

1140
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 3: s dot com for myself, tie, for our guest of honor, Matt,

1141
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 3: and for Dan.

1142
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: Rubinstein, who is very much here in spirit. We'll talk

1143
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 1: to y'all soon.

1144
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 4: Stays on