WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How the Donner Party Worked 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:04.600 Hey, they're friends. It's me Josh, and this week I've 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:08.200 selected for s y s K selects our episode on 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:11.440 the Donner Party, which was pretty grim. I mean, we 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:13.840 all know about the Donner Party, but once you start 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:18.680 to learn the details of the whole thing, it's pretty grim. Anyway, 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.440 I guess I would say enjoy this normally, but yeah, okay, 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:27.360 go ahead, enjoy this episode in a grim way. Welcome 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:29.640 to Stuff you Should Know, a production of My Heart 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:38.320 Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.440 I'm Josh Clark with me as always a Charles W. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.680 Chuck Bryant, and that makes this stuff you should know. 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:50.400 M I don't. I'm fine. Good. How are you doing? 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.840 I'm great, dude. I watched PBS today at work, which 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.560 is always fun when you get to watch TV via 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.800 the computer and work. Yeah, paid for it. Yeah, man, 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.000 I remember I watched American grind House once at work 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.680 while we were doing the exploitation I did do. Actually, 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.720 it was awesome. I watched the PBS is American Experience, 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.880 which is an awesome show. I've been around for years, 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:19.160 and I watched there obviously. I watched the one in 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.319 the Dinner Party. Oh, is that the one you watched? 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:23.880 I gotcha. I just saw there was one on the 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:25.520 Johnstown flood that I which I would have known, I 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.840 would have watched it. Oh yeah, I mean I'll still 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:31.479 watch it. I still want to learn. You're not gonna 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.800 you only watch PBS at work for money? Yeah, you're right. Um. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.160 I was doing a little research and I came across 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:43.200 something called hugh Fou or wofu play on Hulu. You know, 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:48.120 a play on tofu that's designed, um to taste like 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.040 human flesh. Oh, I was going in an entirely different direction. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.960 There is a big um. Yeah, no, this is this 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:01.320 is about canniballism. Now there's a big media put on it. 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:06.560 It made the Daily Show. Um. All sorts of articles 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.600 came up about whufu. There was a spokesman, there was 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:14.080 a website, UM, and it was the tofu that's that 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.239 tastes like human They were saying the reason why they're 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:22.440 doing it so anthropologists could better, um understand their subjects 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.079 when they were investigating cambalism. And there's plenty of people 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.440 out there who just wanted to try it. Well, how 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.960 did they know? How did they flavor it like human? Well? 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.160 They didn't. It turns out the whole thing was the 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:39.760 total farce. But if you still look today, Um, it 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.240 was on the snop sport. It's not definitively yes, but 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.720 no one's ever had it. And apparently while you could 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.880 access the website, you you couldn't buy. You got an 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.120 error message whenever you tried to check out or whatever. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.919 But um, it was pretty funny that everybody got taken 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.760 on that. I thought I'd mentioned. Yeah, I did too, 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.959 And if you look in Urban Dictionary, Um, that's still 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.680 there's no mention of it being fake or fictitious. Yeah, 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.040 I think and loath to say it, but it was 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:17.000 Wikipedia that that initially said it's fictitious. To me, I 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:22.640 feel dirty. Um, but Chuck, we talk about Hoofu or hufu, 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.160 depending on what region of the country you live in. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.280 Um to talk about the Donner Party, which is one 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.840 of those very rare instances in the history of humanity 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:38.800 where we can say, pretty much without doubt, people ate 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.120 other people, and they did so under some of the 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.640 most horrific circumstances that humans have ever endured. This group 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:52.280 of people went through Holy hell. Yeah, it's pretty rough there. Yeah, 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.920 I can just keep going for the rest of the episodes. 0:03:55.720 --> 0:04:00.480 How bad it was? Um and uh. I learned a 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.160 lot from this article, a lot of new surprising stuff, 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.640 and it's pretty cool. Like, did you know that it 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.560 took two years when it should have taken six months? 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:13.840 Not true? What are you talking about? It took one year? Okay? Yeah? 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.600 Well did you know that the Donner Party was originally 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.200 the Donna Reed Party and the the Reed Party split 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.560 off and made their way without event onto um Fort Sutter, California. 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.840 No problem, that's not true either. What are you talking about? Yeah, 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.400 this is not the best article on our site, I 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.240 must say. And I read it and then I did 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.440 my own research and was like, wow, how did you 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.720 miss some of this stuff. We'll get to the bottom 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:41.960 of that and we'll we'll make sure it gets changed. 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.839 I've already sent an email actually about that, did you 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:48.640 an angry one? Well, just like, how could this be 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.560 on our site? It's so wrong and it's so easily 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.919 figured out. It's not like rocket science. It's like it 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.120 took two years. No, look at a calendar. It took 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.960 one year. So a caddie one, yes, okay, it was 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.880 a little caddy. Um. Well, let's talk about the Donner party. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.320 Let's talk about what's known what's not known. So Donna 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:13.120 Donna Reid. Donner was a wealthy farmer in his sixties. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:19.599 Reid was Irish American businessman, had some dough as well. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.840 He financed the trip. Oh did he I believe? So? Okay, 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.320 But George Donner was the official guy in charge. Yeah, 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.280 James Reid thought that he was going to be in charge. 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.640 Um and kind of was in a way. But they 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.159 did elect Donner the captain because Reid turned off people 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.800 with his his RV. Essentially, he had a a macked 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.000 out wagon that everyone else is really piste off about 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.239 because it was double decker and it had a stove 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.240 in it, and it had bunk beds, and it was 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.760 like apparently like made a big commotion among the other 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:58.440 people because they're like, oh, who's this guy with his 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.640 big wagon? And this is even before for the chuck 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.760 wagon was invented by Charles Chuck Goodnight. Do you want 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.080 to go ahead and tell that story, Well, there's not 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.880 much to tell. Charles Chuck Goodnight was a cookie on 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.400 the wagon trails, uh, and after the Civil War he 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.640 had gotten very tired of not having a decent meal, 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.440 so he bought an old government wagon and converted it 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.520 into a kitchen, which became the first chuck wagon named 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:28.560 after him. And uh, from that, if you follow it 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:33.599 further and further, you get diners and food trucks. Chuck wagon. Yeah, 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:40.080 very nice, gosh, very slick. So the Donna Reed Party, Uh, 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.480 like a lot of people back then, said you know what, 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.840 you know where? It's at this place called California that 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:46.839 I've heard so much about. And this is prior to 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.839 the gold Rush. Um this there was a movement towards 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:56.000 populating California, basically wrestling wrestling control of California away from 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.960 the Spanish just through sheer numbers, by having a bunch 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:04.520 of white folks show up and basically saying, Mexico, you 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:06.880 can't you can't control this land anymore. It will be 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.960 too expensive and costly. We're taking over because we live 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.520 here now, That's right. And Lansford Hastings was one of 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.040 the main dudes behind this movement. He was an attorney 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:21.280 from Ohio. He went to California forty two and dreamed 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.760 of wrestling this land from the Mexican Uh, from Mexico 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:30.720 and saying, and governing California himself, well he dreams. He 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.600 did so with a guy named John Sutter who was 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.720 a German born Swiss immigrant who had taken Mexican citizen 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:42.040 citizenship to get a charter a land grant from the 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.760 Mexican government, and he used it to form New Helvetia 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.040 or New Switzerland a k a. Fort Sutter, which is 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:57.600 now Sacramento Swiss German Swiss born with Mexican citizenship. Yeah, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.960 I love it. Who was a trader? Only the can 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.120 do stuff like that exactly only in California, you know. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.280 But Hastings will come back up in a very big 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:11.200 way because it's pretty much all his fault. Uh. So 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:16.000 they basically set out for for California in May, while 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.720 they set out from Springfield in April, but Missouri in 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.160 May is when they had the whole gang together, the 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:27.160 big wagon train. So we're going west, we're following the 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:32.000 California trail. Everyone goes that way. Everyone actually that year 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.160 made it except for the dinner party. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.640 all the immigrants going to California checked in, okay, except 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:43.240 for these these sad folks, and um, it was really 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:48.520 all because of one fateful decision to tell the truth. Um, 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.360 they were just like any other uh wagon train, just 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.720 like any other pioneers. They weren't trailblazers. They were following 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.880 trails that they learned of and um, they were well equipped. 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.720 They weren't stupid, no, no, but they did make one 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:09.120 faithful decision, like you said. Um. Hastings was his first name, Lanford. 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.520 Lanford Hastings comes up in a big way because a 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:16.240 lot of people laid the disaster, the calamity of the 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:21.520 Donner party, at hastings feet, because he was also a trailblazer, 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.560 and he came up with a fanciful thing called the 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.720 Hastings cut off. That's right, a shortcut essentially. Yeah. He 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.400 wrote a book called The Immigrants Guide to Oregon in California, 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.440 which Donner had on the seat of his wagon, and 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.280 there was a very brief sentence about the shortcut, the 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.840 Hastings cut off, that was supposedly going to cut off 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:47.200 about three fifty four hundred miles of a full three 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.880 weeks off of the trip, which is a big chunk 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.160 for a six month trip that's definitely worth the the 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.600 trip that they cut off. The problem was, Hastings had 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.640 never taken this route himself and had certain never taken 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.960 a wagon over it, but that didn't stop him from 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.920 claiming that all of the roads were high and hard 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.800 and level, that there was plenty of water and grass 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.760 for the livestock um, and that there were no aggressive 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.320 Indian tribes in the area. Yeah, he basically painted it 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.800 out like a pleasure cruise because he was trying to 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.320 get as many people as possible to California. He actually 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.600 would go and hang out, like on the way to Oregon, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.120 on the Oregon Trail and be like, you don't want 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:28.920 to go there, you want to come down to California. 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.680 Because he would lead people. Yeah, so this is why 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.440 he came up with the Hastings cut off. And it 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.520 was a dangerous gamble and the Donner Party said, well, 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.160 we want to shave three weeks off of our trip. Well, yeah, 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.520 part of the Dinner Party, uh went left, part of 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.679 him went right. The part that went right did just fine. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:49.640 And you don't hear about them. They're not the Dinner 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.520 Party any longer. I don't know what they're what they 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.640 called themselves, but it wasn't The Reds was not the Reds. 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.600 The Reds stayed with the Donners. Uh, and they went left, 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.839 went on to Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They were going to 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.679 meet up with Hastings there, and they got there a 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.160 little late, and and Hastings was no longer there, but 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.280 he uh sent a message. Oh, he left a note 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.160 somewhere along the trail along the Hastings cut off saying, Uh, 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.439 this may not be as good as I thought. You 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.360 should probably turn back. Well. Yeah, and before that, this 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.920 other dude um named Climbing, was headed east from California 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.120 by way the Hastings cut off, and he said, don't 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.040 go this way. He said, you're you're never gonna make 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.520 it alive. Your wagons aren't gonna make it, and you 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.920 probably wouldn't even make it, so don't go that way. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.520 So but they continued, they continued, they found the note, 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.080 and when they found the note, read went uh spent 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:52.240 five days looking for Hastings to kill him, to talk 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.400 to him about what the deal was. He just said 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:55.920 he wanted to talk to him. Yeah, he wanted to 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.200 kill him. Uh. He did find him, actually, and he 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.080 didn't kill him. Uh. In Hasting said, I'm not coming 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.199 back with you to lead Uh sorry, but hey, I'm 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.520 up on this High Bluff and there's another route, and 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.080 that one looks a lot better, and so they went 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.080 that way instead, which was still the southern route under 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.080 the Great Salt Lake. But um, it was not a 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.920 good move and that's what started the beginning of the 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.439 end for the Dinner Party. Two miles a day. Yeah, 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.679 at that point, in thirty six days, they went sixteen miles, 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.480 which is horrible considering that, um, they averaged about twelve 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:38.480 miles a day normally. Um, they ended up going an 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.720 extra hundred and twenty five miles and it added three 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.560 weeks to the trip rather than subtracting three weeks to 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.040 the trip. They also lost four wagons, which is a 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.439 big deal in a wagon train. Yeah, they lost a 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:55.040 lot of oxen of their cattle as well. And uh, 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.960 that's where they lost some of their first members because 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.520 since they were in the desert eighty miles stretch of 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:04.800 desert on the trail, yeah, the salt desert, so you 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:06.480 got the heat during the day and then it was 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.160 very cold at night. And this was in August that 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.920 this was like m hm. They eventually met back up 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.800 with the California Trail, but they thought, oh man, that 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.719 was rough. But now we're all set because we're back 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.320 on the original trail. So that that time that it 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.520 took him, I mean that extra three weeks, wasn't it. 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.880 That wasn't went Dinniman. They were going slower than they predicted. Yeah, 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.920 and it's important to know right here, during that Hastings 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.200 cut off route where they started to encounter like a 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.760 lot of hardships, they sent this dude named Stanton. He 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.679 was a bachelor from New York UH and he was 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:43.880 one of the only like single dudes there. They sent 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:48.240 him out for provision. So he took off for a 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.080 period of time and did come back with five mules 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.880 loaded with food and two Indian guides Lewis and Salvador 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.560 to help him out. So they weren't a part like 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:03.040 the article says the original UH train either. He came 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.760 back with the provisions with Stanton. UH. During this time, 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.920 read got in a fight. It was basically the first 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.480 incident of road rage. His wagon became entangled. His big 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.440 like RV wagon became entangled with a guy named Snyder. 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.280 They fought, Red killed Snyder with a knife. They had 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.720 a little kangaroo court and first said they should hang 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.000 him and then said no, you know what, just pack 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:27.920 your stuff and get out of here. And so he 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.600 did the next day without his family. He left. So 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.040 he's crazy. There's two stories going on. Now you've got 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.640 the dinner party and the Red family. Then you've got 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.840 read who goes on his own makes it to California. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.400 Actually just fine. Well he was no worse for the 0:14:44.440 --> 0:15:10.880 wear at least, So wow, the dramas high. Already, the 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:15.560 drama is high. They they the amount of time, all 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.280 the setbacks, all the problems that they encountered, conspired to 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:24.040 put them back on the California Trail after the disastrous 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:28.200 hastings cut off um And right at the eastern edge, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:33.520 so that would be the but the Nevada side maybe 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.560 of the um Sierra Nevada Mountains in November at the 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:42.160 first snow storm, and it was a pretty bad snow storm, 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.160 and they thought, we can't make it through these mountains 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.800 in the middle of winter. It's November. Let's just hunker 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.120 down here. And it would turn out to be one 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.440 of the worst winders, one of the harshest winners on 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:57.040 record that they were unknowingly honkering down for. And they 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.240 made camp two very famous camps there's the Donner Camp 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.680 at the edge of a little lake in the area, 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.160 truck Ee Lake. And then there was the Alder Creek camp, 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.280 which apparently was uh founded because of a broken wagon wheel, 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.480 is six miles back either back along the trail, and 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.080 that's where the two groups camped in the Donner Party. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.520 If I may a reading from the diary of one 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.480 of the members of the Donner Party, November Party, like 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:29.840 you're surprised. November one. It was a raining then in 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.040 the valleys and snowing in the mountains. So we went 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.040 on that way three or four days till we came 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.720 to the Big Mountain, or the California Mountain. The snow 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.400 was then about three ft deep. There there was some 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.320 wagons there. They said they had attempted to cross and 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.560 could not. We set out the next morning to make 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.160 a last struggle, but did not advance more than two 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.440 miles before the road became so completely blocked that we 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.320 were compelled to retrace our steps into Spare. When we 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.880 reached the lake, we lost our road, and, owing to 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.800 the depth of the snow in the mountains, were compelled 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.800 to abandon our wagons and pack our goods. Upon Oxen 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.920 so this is early November and they are in bad 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.560 shape and basically the wagons can't even pass anymore. So 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.720 they set up these camps, are like, we gotta hunker 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.359 down for the winter, and ultimately they ended up in 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:20.320 an area where there was through the winter thirty ft 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.280 of snow. Not over time like that was the snowpack 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.760 was thirty ft deep. Yeah, I mean, it's still one 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.560 of the worst winners on record, like today, not just 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.560 for the time. And these people, this group of fairly 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.840 green hornish people from back east, are settled down in 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.119 one of the most dangerous spots in the country at 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:45.840 the time, at least climate wise, yeah, meteor logically dangerous. 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:51.359 Provisions started to run out another diary entry, November six. 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.439 We have now killed most of our cattle, having to 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.639 stay here until next spring and live on poor beef, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.399 without bread or salt. It's snow during the space of 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.080 eight days with little intermission. After our arrival, Mr Curtis 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:04.879 remarked that in the oven was a piece of the 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.479 dog and we could have and we could have it. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.040 Raising the lid of the oven, we found the dog 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.720 well baked and having a fine savory smell. I cut 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:16.920 out a rib, smelling and tasting found it to be 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.040 good and handed the rib to Mr McCutchen, who, after 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.120 smelling it sometime tasted it and pronounced it the very 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:27.360 good dog. So apparently that was, you know, the Dinners 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.040 dog or the Reeds dog. It was one of the 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.800 main Fellas dogs. You know, was met that fate. Yeah, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.840 I hadn't. I didn't read that he was delicious. Uh well, 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.159 I imagine if you're dying of starvation, anything that's going 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.840 to be delicious. They ate their shoes strings, they ate 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.000 the kids would sit in front of the fire and 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.640 pick off pieces of the hide skin rug and eat that, 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.080 and then they eventually ate the hide from the roofs 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.720 of the cabins because there are actually cabins at the lake. 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.720 There were no cabins at the creek, but they weren't, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.080 you know, they weren't much help against this kind of know. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.199 In fact, apparently they were completely packed in at one 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.560 point and couldn't even get out of the cabin. It 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.199 was like the thing that happened to um Mr Burns 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:14.080 and Homer Simpson. Yeah, when the the camping tripper was 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:18.720 at the ski trip, it was the corporate retreat right, boy, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.280 that was a good one. Um. They also they boiled 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.080 their blankets into like kind of a pasty glue. Apparently 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.440 you said they're shoelaces, right, They ate their shoelaces, Yeah, 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.680 because I think they were made of like animal hide 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.879 or something, bark, twigs, anything they could get their hands on, 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.960 anything that might have any kind of protein they were eating. Yeah, 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.239 they boiled the bones so much for soup that they 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.639 became just brittle. So they ate the bones of the 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:48.240 animals because they could like bite into them. So it's, um, 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.920 it's pretty rough. They also, it should go without saying, 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.240 they ate their pack animals. They managed to hunt for deer, 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:59.720 which is pretty good in thirty ft of snow to 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.160 hunt deer in the middle of winter and successfully. Hats 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.160 off to them for that. Yeah, they got other things. 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.920 They got birds here and there, like ducks and owls, 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.520 and uh, I think they got a wolf one time. 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.520 So they were able to the forage here and there. 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:18.120 But everybody, everyone's clearly starving by this time, and it's 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.520 the writings on the wall to the parties at these camps. 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.600 So they select a group of um, well, the strongest people, 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.960 including the two Indian guides, and I think it was 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:34.240 the strongest fifteen people equipped them with homemade snowshoes and 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.760 set them out to walk across the Sierra Nevada Mountains 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.280 in the middle of winter with almost no food. They 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:47.480 had six days starvation rations per person um. And they 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.560 were called the forelearn Hope that was the name of 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.440 the group, or the Snowshoe Group. And I just want 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:56.000 to point out that this is some of the most 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.360 beautiful land you'll ever see in your life. So it's 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.480 you know, it's not like they were in a goolag 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:08.080 in Siberia. I mean, this was like gorgeous Sierra Nevada 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.640 mountain range in this lake. You know, it's it's absolutely amazing. 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:13.919 So it must have been a bitter pill, you know, 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.240 to be that close. So they're only like a hundred 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.600 and fifty miles away at that point and just stuck, yeah, 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:22.240 and dying. I think even beyond the beauty, the fact 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:23.880 that they were a hundred and fifty miles from their 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:29.080 destination dying, like you said, that's rough. It was them 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:35.800 the Forlorn Hope Group, where cannibalism first came up because 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:40.360 they all ran out of food very quickly. And apparently, uh, 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.760 six days in a guy um named Charles Stanton. Who 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:47.200 you mentioned Stanton, didn't you. Yeah, he was a bachelor, 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.720 one of the early heroes. He was saying, hey, you 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.480 guys go on without me or um, you know, take 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.720 me with you as provisions maybe, and everybody said, no, 0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:00.119 we can't do that. It's crazy, stop that, um, and 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.520 they left him to die, right. Yeah. A couple of 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:07.639 days after that, they thought, hey, maybe Stanton wasn't so crazy. 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.119 Let's figure out well, let's let's all let's explore the 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:15.159 possibility of cannibalism. And they did. They discussed it, and 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:18.320 apparently at first they decided that they were going to 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:24.000 draw lots draw straws and then whoever is like the 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:26.600 custom of the sea, whoever drew the short of straw 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:31.040 was going to die, and whoever drew the second short 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.640 of straw was the person who had to kill him. 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:35.880 And this one guy I can't remember his name, drew 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.400 the straw the shortest straw, but nobody had the heart 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:42.400 to kill him, so they kind of just waited instead 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.840 for the next person to die, and they proposed dueling 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:50.360 to at one point, like, let's do a shootout whoever dies, 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:54.240 we'll just eat them. But it was very grim. Um. 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:59.639 Another another reading perhaps, Yes, this was in December actually 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.879 right for Christmas, sadly, and this melancholy. And this is 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:07.480 from the Snowshoe group, the Forlorn Hope. In this melancholy situation, 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:10.640 they consulted together and concluded they would go on trusting 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:14.399 in Providence rather than return to the miserable cabins. They 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.240 were also at this time out of provisions and partly agreed, 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:21.080 with the exception of Mr Foster, that in case of necessity, 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.080 they would cast lots who should die to preserve the remainder. 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:30.640 So it's coming, yea, they know it so UM I 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:34.960 think A couple of days after Um they started talking 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:41.600 about cannibalism. The first guy died. His name was Um Antoine. Yeah, 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:50.240 and Antoine Um was eaten by the Forlorn Hope group. Um. 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:52.679 He was the first one, but definitely not the last. 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:56.960 There was a guy named Jay Fast, Yes, he was 0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:00.199 the next in A lady named Mrs Foster cut the 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.040 meat from his bones, boiled it and served it to everybody, 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:06.560 and everybody ate. But the one thing that was um 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:13.360